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IRC log for #minetest, 2015-04-16

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Time Nick Message
00:05 wilkgr Does anybody know how to add an extra command
00:05 wilkgr to MineTest?
00:05 wilkgr One beginning with a /
00:07 wilkgr OldCoder, I found this: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=1203 this has the AFK command
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01:27 exio4 hai
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01:44 AndroidKris What's up?
01:44 Pilcrow sofar, if you're there, I'm sorry if I made you mad yesterday.
01:45 Pilcrow and hello AndroidKris  :)
01:45 AndroidKris ohaithere
01:46 Pilcrow AndroidKris: did you get 0.4.12 and technic working fine?  :)
01:46 exio4 \o Pilcrow
01:46 exio4 o/ AndroidKris
01:47 Pilcrow hi exio4. how are you today?
01:47 exio4 it's going
01:47 AndroidKris I did, and discovered an apparently common "falling" glitch. Shortly after that, I figured out the "solution" to that falling glitch completely by accident.
01:47 exio4 long day today
01:47 Pilcrow what glitch was that, AndroidKris?
01:48 Pilcrow exio4: bad day at work or something?  :\
01:48 AndroidKris Where you start falling through blackness because one of the coords gets set to "-infinity"
01:48 exio4 Pilcrow: nah
01:49 AndroidKris It's apparently common on linux installs
01:49 exio4 Pilcrow: it was that I was for 14+ hours@ uni
01:49 Pilcrow AndroidKris: I use linux, but I've never had that happen...
01:50 Pilcrow exio4: oh, fun. what are you studying?
01:50 exio4 systems analysis is the name of thing, I think
01:50 exio4 in english
01:51 Pilcrow VanessaE, are you up and around?
01:52 VanessaE yeah
01:54 VanessaE for the moment anyway
01:54 VanessaE what's up?
01:54 Pilcrow VanessaE: I got blender working on my other laptop, but can't seem to figure out the materials thing we talked about earlier. also, is there a way to make it use a top, bottom, and side material same as normal nodes and nodeboxes?
01:54 sofar look at the farming:soil node
01:55 VanessaE brb, I'll explain when I return
01:55 sofar also, soil_with_potatoes
01:55 Pilcrow ok, thank you.
01:55 sofar very easy to do without creating a mesh
01:57 Pilcrow sofar: what I was asking about is how to apply 3 seperate materials to a mesh, using top, bottom, and side textures. mine definitely needs to be a mesh, as it is very non-cubic  ;)
01:57 VanessaE back.
01:57 sofar you'll have to do the UV unmapping stuff
01:57 VanessaE it's easily done with a mesh but as sofar says, you have to learn how to use the UV mapper part of blender
01:57 VanessaE that part is easy to learn but tedious to actually do
01:58 Sokomine sounds tricky
01:58 * Sokomine stares at blender and gimp - and runs away
01:59 Pilcrow I guess I'll have to go look for tutorials or something. I've never used blender, or any 3d modeling program, for that matter. no idea what a UV map even is...  :P
01:59 VanessaE in Blender, on that side pane at the far right, there's a set of small tabs underneath the object list, one of which looks like a camera. mouseover it and scroll it to the right (don't scroll the scrollbar above it - scroll the tabs) look for the one that looks like an orangeish ball, right next to a red/white checkerboard
01:59 VanessaE that ball is the materials tab
02:00 VanessaE click that, add a material by clicking the "+" icon right of the empty list, then hit "New" below the list.  double click the name in the list, which now reads "Material" and give it a new name.
02:01 exio4 good night anyway
02:01 VanessaE look down below the large white ball that is now visible and click the white rectangle under "Diffuse" to change the color of that material.
02:01 VanessaE repeat those steps to add more materials.
02:02 VanessaE then, go back to your model, select some polygons, click the material in your list on the right, and click "Assign" at the bottom of the list
02:02 VanessaE oh, make sure you're in Edit Mode for all of this.
02:02 sofar VanessaE: does every node have the "under" and "above" members?
02:02 OldCoder VanessaE, yo
02:02 VanessaE sofar: those members are of the position itself, not of the node at the position, so you could say so yeah
02:02 sofar um
02:03 sofar argh, yes they're pos
02:03 VanessaE pointed_thing.above and .under are positions, but I don't *think* that pointed_thing has any other members besides those
02:03 AndroidKris VanessaE, I just want to say great work on your hdx textures. I'm using the 128px and it is beautiful
02:03 VanessaE thanks AndroidKris  :)
02:03 sofar VanessaE: IC, thanks
02:04 Pilcrow sofar: you can probably use minetest.serialize(pointed_thing) to see for sure if it has any more members.
02:05 VanessaE Pilcrow: did the above make sense?
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02:06 wilkgr OldCoder, did you get my previous message?
02:07 OldCoder You keep going in and out wilkgr
02:08 OldCoder It is difficult to focus on your threads
02:09 wilkgr Very funny...not
02:09 wilkgr This mod has a AFK command: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=1203
02:11 wilkgr Still alpha, but its nice to see an implementation
02:12 Pilcrow VanessaE: odd... double-clicking the name does nothing for me. can't seem to rename it.
02:13 VanessaE Pilcrow: you're in edit mode?
02:13 Pilcrow VanessaE: how do I tell? it did let me remove the existing material, if that's any indication...
02:14 VanessaE you're double-clicking the name in the list, right?  next to the [+] [-] [V]  buttons?
02:14 VanessaE ok yeah, if you can remove a material, you're not in edit mode
02:14 VanessaE you're in object mode
02:14 VanessaE hit the pulldown at the bottom of the screen, it probably says "object mode"
02:14 VanessaE or just press 'tab'
02:18 Pilcrow ok, I'm in edit mode now, but still can't change the name.
02:18 AndroidKris VanessaE, I just noticed that the fence in the hand has pink edges with your hdx 128px textures.
02:19 VanessaE are you double-clicking on the right one?  there are two places where it looks like you can double-click - in the listing right next to the [+] [-] [V] buttons (yes), and below the list it reads "Material" [F] [+] [X] [some boxes] [Data]
02:19 AndroidKris no biggie, I just installed today, so of course I didn't notice till just now. So I look like a jerk for saying it is great work, then pointing out flaws.
02:19 VanessaE you want the upper one of the two
02:20 Pilcrow Ah, I had to click the little pin icon above the materials list. then it let me edit the name.
02:22 Pilcrow oh, it looks like I didn't actually need to click that icon. the box next to the +, -, and v won't let me change the name, but there's another text box below it (under the Assign button) that works.
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02:30 Pilcrow VanessaE: thank you for the help. I made the materials, and named them, but how do I select the polygons in my model? clicking and dragging just moves the little circled-crosshair thing...
02:32 Pilcrow oh, I figured it out. it's a right-click thing. don't know how to zoom/rotate the model though.
02:33 VanessaE zoom and rorate is done with the mouse wheel
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02:33 VanessaE (shift and/or control is useful here for panning and drag-to-zoom)
02:33 VanessaE rotate*
02:35 wilkgr So, OldCoder, what do you say to that?
02:39 Pilcrow ah, I see. mwheel=zoom, shift+mwheel=pan up/down, ctrl+mwheel=pan left/right... but how do I rotate it to view the faces on the other side, etc?
02:41 VanessaE middle click and drag.
02:42 VanessaE and you can use the keypad
02:42 VanessaE 1 3 and 7 being the most useful
02:42 VanessaE 5 switches between ortho and perspective views
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02:43 Pilcrow I'm on a laptop with no keypad. at least I can simulate middle mouse button by pressing left and right buttons at the same time...
02:44 VanessaE ok
02:45 Pilcrow how do I de-select faces?
02:45 VanessaE shift-right-click
02:46 VanessaE also ctrl-left-click-drag to lasso-select, and ctrl-shift-left-click-drag if you want to lasso-DEselect
02:47 Pilcrow thank you. I actually figured out the lasso, but then couldn't find the un-lasso...  :P
02:55 Pilcrow Awesome. I think I'm done with this now, but need to test it to be sure. thank you so much for your help, VanessaE...  :)
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02:56 VanessaE there's still one more step":
02:56 VanessaE in your mod, you have to reference your materials as texture entries in your tiles={} field in your node def.
02:57 VanessaE and you will probably put them in the wrong order the first time.  if the model loads but all the materials are in the wrong places, just swap your tiles={} entries around.
02:57 VanessaE (no need to alter the model if it works but the materials are all switched up)
02:58 Pilcrow VanessaE: do you mean like the standard {"top.png", "bottom.png", "side.png"}?
02:58 VanessaE yeah
02:58 VanessaE and you have to make sure you export your model to .obj with "Material groups" turned on as well.
03:00 VanessaE you'll figure it out :)
03:01 Pilcrow thanks, I didn't turn on material groups before, so that probably wouldn't have worked right...  :P
03:03 Pilcrow hmm, now my dropbox is being stupid and refusing to sync. how annoying...
03:03 MinetestBot [git] paramat -> minetest/minetest: Mgv5/v7: Add check for water for deciding biome node stability ad789be http://git.io/vvrWT (2015-04-16T04:01:58+01:00)
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03:12 Botch hello?
03:12 VanessaE Botch: irc.inchra.net #minetest
03:13 VanessaE (yes, I was watching just now)
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03:18 Pilcrow how strange... VanessaE, the newly exported model doesn't seem to have changed anything despite my work on the materials. it scrambles my textures, and works perfectly fine with the old single-file texture I'm trying to get rid of...  :\
03:19 VanessaE you'll figure it out :)
03:19 VanessaE just re-read what I wrote above, you probably just missed a step
03:20 Pilcrow but when I open the .blend, all my changes are still there. maybe somethings screwing up with the export to obj?
03:20 VanessaE possibl;y :)
03:23 * cheapie peeks in
03:23 cheapie Pilcrow: Your mod hasn't eaten me yet... either it's because I haven't installed it, or I'm not a grapefruit.
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03:24 Pilcrow well, one thing's for sure, VanessaE: it's not just a matter of re-arranging the tiles; they're literally scrmbled, not just in the wrong places...
03:25 VanessaE sounds like you need to UV-map your model now
03:25 VanessaE you've gotten everything done but the tedious part
03:26 VanessaE open a second Blender window (top menu, Window, Duplicate Window).  Change the mode from 3d view to UV/texture editor (the icon on the left end of the menu next to "view", looks like a white cube)
03:27 VanessaE select some polys in the 3d view window, press 'u', and select one of the unwrap options, whichever works best for the part you're working on.
03:27 VanessaE repeat ad nauseum.
03:28 Pilcrow ah, ok. you didn't mention how to do that earlier. I thought assigning the materials to the faces was what you meant by "UV map", and I had already done that.
03:29 VanessaE heh nope
03:29 VanessaE that just sorta splits the model up so that minetest can assign textures, but you still have to lay them out on the model :)
03:35 Pilcrow do I need to do something to actually "apply" the unwrap?
03:37 VanessaE if you see UV pieces appearing in the UV editor, and they're shaped and oriented the way you want, mthen that's as far as you have to go with them
03:37 VanessaE just always make sure you have the right texture loaded for each material you're editing on, just to help avoid mistakes
03:38 VanessaE also, if you turn on the 'n' panel in the 3d view, find the "shading" dropdown, and set it to "multitexture", you can see what your model will look like with the textures in place.
03:38 VanessaE excuse me, not just "multitexture", but "textured solid"
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03:39 Pilcrow the 'n' panel? the n button does nothing, so I assume you're refering to something else?
03:40 VanessaE if you mouse over your model in the 3d view and press 'n', a panel on the right will toggle on and off
03:40 VanessaE in that panel is a "shading" option.
03:41 Pilcrow oh. ok. I don't know why the n button didn't work before, but that panel has been open from the start.  :P
03:41 cheapie And then you press more buttons and something happens, I think.
03:41 VanessaE heh
03:41 cheapie No idea which buttons correspond to which functions.
03:41 VanessaE Pilcrow: right.  in there is "shading", expand/open that menu and tick the "textured solid" checkbox
03:42 * cheapie continues sitting on his bed in front of his franken-computer with the keyboard propped up on a receipt paper box
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03:42 Pilcrow ok. I must've done something wrong; the whole model's white
03:42 cheapie Speaking of buttons that do stuff, *gestures vaguely at keyboard* I think it's one of those.
03:43 VanessaE Pilcrow: that's normal
03:43 VanessaE now select some polys and start UV-mapping
03:43 VanessaE you'll find yourself turning the "textured solid" feature on and off from time to time
03:47 Pilcrow VanessaE: I've selected the polys, pressed 'u', and clicked unwrap. but I don't know how to assign the actual texture to it. do I click on "browse image to be linked" in the UV window?
03:48 VanessaE what you do is click on your material in the list where you added them, select the polys that belong to that material, and click "Apply" below the material list.  then, while those and only those polys are selected, go over to the UV editor, ignore any UV pieces that you might see, and doand do Image -> Open
03:48 VanessaE select your texture there
03:48 VanessaE then proceed to unwrap
03:48 VanessaE then unselect all polys, select some for the next material, select the material on the right, click "Apply", load a texture in the UV editor, and repeat for each material
03:49 VanessaE select the polys in the 3d view that is
03:49 VanessaE the UV editor window will switch textures whenever you select polys in the 3d view
03:50 VanessaE once you've done it a couple of times, it will suddenly become obvious how it works :)
03:50 VanessaE sorry if I'm rambling
03:50 VanessaE it's getting late and I suck at teaching :P
03:50 VanessaE (especially when trying to teach over this medium)
03:51 * Pilcrow feels dense... this is probably the most confusing thing I've ever done.
03:51 VanessaE it IS confusing at first
03:52 VanessaE but it will make sense after a few tries
03:53 Pilcrow well I thank you very much for being patient with me. and no, you're not rambling at all.
03:56 Pilcrow ah, I suppose I can't just do a normal top, bottom and side texture, so I can simply re-use the textures from my nodebox version, huh?  :(
03:56 VanessaE you CAN probably re-use your old textures, after some changes
03:56 VanessaE but don't expect to just randomly project them onto the model :)
03:57 VanessaE you CAN project them directly onto the model, but it probably won't look the way you hoped.
03:57 Pilcrow I was hoping to tweak the model in such a way that the textures wouldn't need to be modified.
03:57 VanessaE (that's what the "project from view" option in the UV unwrapper does - after you rotate your view to the correct "side" and select the relevant polys that is)
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04:19 AndroidKris With the slab items, how can I put something like a fence post on top without a gap (since the slab is half as high as a normal block), or have the slab occupy the top half of the "block space" that I place it in? Is this even possible?
04:21 AndroidKris nvm the top half thing, figured it out with the screwdriver. now to figure out the gap problem
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04:24 VanessaE you can't.
04:24 VanessaE you would have to define a new node that is the combination of the fencepost and the slab.
04:25 Pilcrow AndroidKris: unfortunately, there's not really a way to get rid of the gap. the slab may only take up half of the node space, but it still counts as a whole node; two nodes can't occupy the same space.
04:26 AndroidKris I guess the workaround is to use the screwdriver to lift the half-high slab to the top half of the node space then huh?
04:26 AndroidKris Don't take this the wrong way VanessE, but your answer was to technical for me to understand.lol
04:27 AndroidKris I know some techy stuff, but I'm still a nub to minecraft...errrr, minetest; as it were.
04:27 VanessaE AndroidKris: to do it the right way, you would have to write a mod :)
04:27 AndroidKris yeah, I'm not even close to being there yet.
04:28 AndroidKris Maybe not ever.
04:28 AndroidKris :P
04:28 VanessaE actually the RIGHT way requires an engine change.  there is a proposal that would suffice, but that proposal has not been implemented.
04:28 Pilcrow and even a mod wouldn't get rid of the gap for everything. furnaces, for example, would still be "floating"  :P
04:29 AndroidKris Why the furnace?
04:29 VanessaE that was only an example
04:29 VanessaE any object would be that way
04:29 AndroidKris o.0
04:29 VanessaE because the slab's gap is hard-coded into the node space.
04:30 VanessaE think of the gap as being filled with aerogel or something :)
04:30 AndroidKris aha...And the only way to change that would be to basically allow objects to occupy two node spaces at the same time, as well as allowing two objects to occupy the same node space.
04:31 VanessaE correct.
04:31 VanessaE the former is already possible now
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04:31 VanessaE (objects can occupy as much space as you want via model meshes)
04:31 VanessaE but the latter (two objects in one node space) is not possible (yet, ever? idk)
04:32 AndroidKris sound's almost like it would require a complete overhaul of the definitions of the node spaces themselves.
04:32 VanessaE probably
04:32 AndroidKris That probably goes all the way back to source huh?
04:33 VanessaE yep.
04:33 AndroidKris Yeah...no.
04:33 AndroidKris Workaround it is.
04:33 VanessaE so for now, modders just "fake" it.
04:33 VanessaE for example, signs_lib lets you put a wooden sign onto certain kinds of fenceposts
04:34 AndroidKris For as well made as this game is, I'm surprised that it is still 0.4.x and hasn't reached a 1.x.x mark yet.
04:34 Pilcrow nodebox nodes can also occupy more than one node space, but then there's texture tiling wierdness. plantlike nodes can do it too.
04:34 VanessaE but rather than putting two nodes in the same space, which is impossible in the classic sense, it does that by defining a new node with a model that looks like a fencepost with a sign on it.
04:35 VanessaE version numbers aren't all that meaningful in minetest.  don't give that 0.4.x too much of a look. :)
04:35 AndroidKris Traditional version numbering would put it at beta still.lol
04:36 AndroidKris Hell, the android OS didn't pass beta until it reached 2.1.x. And that's just when they went public.
04:36 AndroidKris < - android nerd ^^ We all have our vices.
04:37 VanessaE heh
04:38 * Pilcrow loves android as well
04:39 AndroidKris Woo *high five*
04:39 AndroidKris VanessaE better not be an apple fan
04:39 Pilcrow < - got an nVidia Shield as soon as I could. still use it every day.  :P
04:40 AndroidKris Waiting on my tax return to get a One+ One
04:41 VanessaE I'm neither a fan nor a hater.
04:43 AndroidKris Choosing the side of noncommittal huh?
04:44 VanessaE maybe :)
04:44 Pilcrow that's how I feel about ios. I don't hate it, it's just kind of... less useful...  :P
04:45 VanessaE the only two apple devices I have are old (PPC era), and my android devices are recent, but I prefer my linux-based PC.
04:47 Pilcrow my Shield is more powerful than any of my laptops. but I do prefer linux over everything else, as an os.
04:50 AndroidKris Android was built on the linux kernel
04:51 AndroidKris Thats really where my love for andriod comes from, my love for linux.
04:51 AndroidKris android*
04:52 Pilcrow AndroidKris: got a favorite distro?  :3
04:54 AndroidKris Haven't tried enough to have a favorite yet. But I will say that Fedora Shows a lot of promise...Well, any of the RedHat branches I've tride have seemed very well polished and stable.
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04:56 AndroidKris You have a favorite?
04:57 Pilcrow ah. I've always had trouble with fedora and opensuse, but not all rpm distros; I loved mandriva a few years ago. now I'm mostly an arch guy. I *love* being able to compile whatever my heart desires, weather it's in the repos or not...  :)
04:59 AndroidKris I don't like the tediousness of compiling. I want to be able to sit down and get right to work.
05:01 Pilcrow ^exactly why I use arch and not, say, gentoo. I like having binaries available, and will install from a package manager if able, but I'm not SOL if I want/need a program that's not *in* the repos; if it's not there, I can build it myself and use it anyway!  :D
05:03 AndroidKris true, but I'm running Xubuntu right now and have a few programs that aren't in the repo's. Unruu for example.
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05:13 Pilcrow AndroidKris: still, with everything that's in the repos, there are still stuff that's not. I like to try out obscure programs, and feel comfortable knowing I have all the compiling tools at my disposal if I happen to need them. that's just me.  :P
05:14 AndroidKris To each his/her own
05:14 AndroidKris repos or no, I like polish.
05:15 AndroidKris I.E. Fedora .. or Mint. but Mint is to much like winblows for my taste
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05:15 Pilcrow I like stability but could care less about polish. as long as it works well, I don't care if it looks like a mix-and-match...  ;P
05:16 Zeno` pfft. I don't even use an OS. I do everything from the grub shell
05:18 AndroidKris You're so hipster that hipster's can't even...
05:18 AndroidKris It's literally impossible to do EVERYTHING from the grub shell.
05:19 Pilcrow Technically, the OS I like the most is a _fork_ of arch called Chakra. they have a semi-rolling release model, rather than the full-roll of normal arch. that means the core of the os is less prone to breakage, as the kernal, desktop, sound server etc. only get updated at the time of a new 'release', while the less-important things are kept relatively bleeding-edge.
05:20 Pilcrow that also means you can globally install *all* available updates -- something kind of dangerous to do -- without causing many problems...  :)
05:21 Pilcrow (something kind of dangerous to do in regular Arch, I meant to say)
05:22 AndroidKris (back to minetest for a second) How do I make a sign appear to be on a fencepost?
05:24 Pilcrow AndroidKris: if you have VanessaE's homedecor (or at least signs_lib), then you just place the sign on the post. if you don't have homedecor or signs_lib, it isn't possible.
05:24 VanessaE that's the thing I was talking about before.
05:24 AndroidKris gotcha, see, now I gotta go download another mod...dangit.
05:24 AndroidKris lol
05:24 AndroidKris Which do you recommend VanessaE?
05:25 AndroidKris Since they are your mods
05:25 VanessaE signs_lib puts signs on fenceposts by defining new nodes that are fenceposts that actually have a sign on them
05:25 VanessaE homedecor modpack, of course ;)
05:25 VanessaE https://github.com/VanessaE/homedecor_modpack
05:25 AndroidKris Had that link handy didn'tcha?
05:25 VanessaE nope.
05:25 VanessaE browser history :)
05:26 AndroidKris Same thing.
05:26 Pilcrow you'd like homedecor anyway; it has tons of awesome decorational stuff. tables, chairs, microwaves, refrigerators... everything but the kitchen sink! oh, wait... there's that, too.  :P
05:26 VanessaE it has a kitchen sink...and the bathroom sink too! :)
05:26 AndroidKris lol, noice.
05:26 AndroidKris downloading now.
05:30 AndroidKris nice, but it "breaks" the fence
05:31 AndroidKris no biggie, I can deal..
05:31 VanessaE oh yeah
05:31 VanessaE I'll eventually fix that
05:31 VanessaE just haven't bothered.
05:31 AndroidKris Oh, but how do I make a sign that will actually display what I type?
05:31 VanessaE those signs will display your written text.
05:31 VanessaE that's the main purpose
05:32 VanessaE right click, write something, click "Write" and it will appear on the sign.
05:32 AndroidKris It's not displaying.
05:32 VanessaE really?
05:32 Pilcrow hmm. that's odd. it should...
05:32 VanessaE screenshot please?
05:33 AndroidKris brb
05:34 VanessaE hm, seems to work fine here.
05:34 AndroidKris I'm using the wrong "sign". I figured it out.
05:34 VanessaE ok
05:34 VanessaE which "sign" were you using then?
05:35 VanessaE all of the ones supplied by signs_lib are visible-text
05:36 AndroidKris I'm not using the sign from your mod pack. I'm using the one from ... I'm not sure where...
05:36 VanessaE "shared locked sign" by chance?
05:38 * Pilcrow sighs. I think I may just use the old texture, with all the black space, for my hoverbot model. I have the materials mapped right, but it's ugly; the pixels are at angles instead of straight, and they are huge and blurry... it's ugly and I can't seem to fix it.
05:38 MinetestBot [git] paramat -> minetest/minetest: Mgv5: Fix above/below ground spawn when water level is altered d02300a http://git.io/vvrQk (2015-04-16T06:36:57+01:00)
05:40 Pilcrow at least I've figured out how the mapping works now, but I'm ready to just give up on doing anything useful with it...  :\
05:40 VanessaE take a break then
05:41 VanessaE just keep at it (breaks aside) and eventually you'll learn how to make good maps
05:41 VanessaE maybe you'll even figure out the holy grail of modeling:  the perfect UV-mapped sphere ;)
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05:46 AndroidKris I figured out the sign thing. I had crafted the sign before installing the mod, so the old and new were competing somehow. Pulverized the old signs, crafted new, and it works.
05:46 Pilcrow all I want is to use the old nodebox model's textures without modifying them. nice, straight pixels of 1/32 node size, no funky texture scaling, no curves, no angles... if I can't do that, then there's not a point to going any further with this anyway...
05:46 AndroidKris Now to figure out text formatting on that sign.
05:49 Pilcrow I thank you very much for your help, VanessaE. I'm sure it will come in handy som time. I just don't think it's possible to do what I'm wanting to do with this model.
05:49 Pilcrow s/som/some/
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06:08 VanessaE Pilcrow: chances are, what you want to do can easily be done
06:08 VanessaE especially since you want to start from converted nodeboxes
06:09 VanessaE that makes it especially easy - but there's a caveat:  it's useless to use converted nodeboxes if you're not going to at least remove hidden faces and re-tile it to make it hollow wherever possible
06:09 VanessaE if you don't do that, you end up with just as many polys as the nodeboxes created originally, with more flexible texture usage being the only benefit
06:15 Pilcrow the model I'm using *should* have less faces than the nodebox; I don't know how to tell the difference (is there a face-counter in blender?), but it was created from scratch, based only on the *appearance* of the nodeboxes... in other words, it looks like the nodeboxes, but it's not just converted nodeboxes; it's a new model, from the ground up.
06:15 VanessaE there is a face counter, top right corner of the window
06:15 VanessaE ok since you made it from scratch, and it's all orthogonal faces, texturing it will be easy
06:16 VanessaE put your view in ortho mode (activate your embedded number pad and press '5'), then swing the camera to front, back, left, right, top or bottom view with 1, 3, or 7 on the number pad (with ctrl in some of those cases)
06:17 VanessaE select all the polys that are on a given "side" and use project-from-view as your UV map option
06:17 VanessaE be sure you don't zoom in or out between "sides", or the output size from the project-from-view function will be thrown off
06:18 VanessaE once they're projected, go over to the UV editor, select them all, and move them out of the way
06:18 VanessaE then back to 3d view and 'h'ide them.
06:18 VanessaE them go to another "side" and repeat.
06:18 VanessaE once you've done them all, un-hide with alt-h
06:18 VanessaE (in the 3d view)
06:19 VanessaE that's by far the easiest way to get a perfectly flat, ortho unwrap of a nodebox-like model
06:19 VanessaE after you've unwrapped everything and un-hid, you'll see several globs of faces in the UV view.  make sure they're all well-separated.
06:19 VanessaE select them all
06:20 VanessaE alternate scaling and moving the entire lot, so that the largest bunch that takes up most of the node space (for its side) fills the UV texture area
06:21 Pilcrow ok, I'll have to try in the morning. that laptop's off now, and I need to go to bed in about 10 min. I'm actually copying everything you just said into a text editor, so I don't have to search for it in the logs.
06:21 VanessaE make sure it's as close as you can possibly get.  zoom in, use shift-drag to move and/or scale with precision
06:22 Pilcrow oh, and just so you know, I didn't make the model myself. Ecutruin was nice enough to make it for me, based on screenshots of my nodebox model.
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06:22 VanessaE once it's as lined up as you can possibly get, turn on snap-to-pixel mode in the "UVs" menu, and select ONE bunch, and move it.  all the UV pieces in the bunch will re-size themselves to be exactly pixel-sized.  hope your texture matches :)
06:23 VanessaE (you said the model is designed on a 1/32 scale, so half-pixel.  recommend you have a 32x32 px image loaded at this point or it WILL screw up)
06:24 VanessaE if it looks right, move that bunch somewhere where you'll remember which part of the model it represents, and select some other bunch and move that.
06:24 VanessaE repeat ad nauseum
06:24 Pilcrow ^ yes, the textures I'm trying to use are 32x32
06:25 VanessaE also, don't worry about which texture you're using to lay out the UV maps - you can re-assign materials and textures later.
06:25 VanessaE ok good
06:26 VanessaE caveat:  if your model contains any faces/polys that are not precisely on a 1/32 grid, snapping the relevant UV pieces to pixels will cause a slight distortion in the rendered texture.  But I assume you already accounted for that.
06:28 Pilcrow heh. I can see you definitely know your stuff. thanks for your help and sorry for causing any headaches...  :P
06:29 VanessaE I try :)
06:29 VanessaE no worries about headaches
06:30 VanessaE as for knowing my stuff, hell I'm still learning.
06:32 Pilcrow heh. I know how that is; I'm an avid user of GIMP, and have made a TON of art and textures from scratch, yet I'm always learning new things. plus blender seems to have even more "hidden" features than gimp...  ;)
06:36 Pilcrow anyways, I need to go to bed now. I've copied all your info and help down so I won't lose it, and I will try it when I get up tomorrow. I'm kind of wondering if all this is worth it for a single little model, but you've convinced me to keep trying...  :P
06:37 Pilcrow goodnight, VanessaE.  o/
06:43 VanessaE night
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07:33 OldCoder wilkgr, if you see this tomorrow, I've been focused on work
07:33 OldCoder We can talk in the afternoon, my time zone
07:34 wilkgr What time zone are you?
07:34 wilkgr Chicago?
07:35 wilkgr Is it really 2:35 AM at your place?
07:36 Krock wilkgr, /ctcp OldCoder time
07:36 * wilkgr is amazed
07:38 * wilkgr thanks Krock
07:38 * Krock np(s) wilkgr
07:38 * wilkgr doesn't know what np(s) means
07:39 Krock np as a verb.
07:39 wilkgr This is not correct is it: In an equivalent formal definition, NP is the set of decision problems where the "yes"-instances can be accepted in polynomial time by a non-deterministic Turing machine
07:40 wilkgr I asked google
07:40 * wilkgr knows that google is not always right
07:41 wilkgr It could mean no problem, but you said it is a verb
07:41 * wilkgr wishes to be enlightened
07:43 * wilkgr still wants to know what np means
07:44 * Krock tells wilkgr that np = no problem
07:46 * wilkgr wonders how Krock uses no problem as a verb and then remembers that this is internet slang and thanks Krock for clarifying the issue he/she started.
07:46 wilkgr well not issue, but...
07:46 wilkgr Aaaanyway, this is a minetest channel, and this is not about minetest
07:47 * Krock thinks this discussion is getting very offtopic
07:47 wilkgr Let's just drop it and play
07:47 OldCoder It seems friendly enough
07:47 * wilkgr thinks friendly, but offtopic
07:47 wilkgr Oh yeah, it is friendly
07:56 * wilkgr is away and playing ShadowNinja's server and wants to show off his house
07:58 wilkgr (It's on spawn road west
07:58 wilkgr It's 2-tone blue colour scheme, can't miss it
08:00 OldCoder wilkgr, I will visit now if you wish
08:00 OldCoder Is it worth seeing?
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08:36 JamesTait Good morning all; happy High Five Day! :-D
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12:49 AndroidKris Is there a way to increase just the font size throughout the entire game?
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13:08 Krock AndroidKris, font_size = 15 in minetest.conf (15 is default)
13:08 AndroidKris sweet, thanks Krock.
13:08 Krock np
13:12 AndroidKris Ahhh, much easier to read on my big screen now.lol
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14:11 YvesLevier Finaly i think i understood smothing...  Plz read if im right :
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14:13 YvesLevier I can get another texture folder, import a graphics to my VanessaE text, keep the trace of my work.  Then i can safely change a texture of a block of my choice.  Even carts.  Is that true?
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15:43 VanessaE YvesLevier: that's correct.
15:43 YvesLevier VanessaE: thx :)
15:43 YvesLevier alot
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15:59 Calinou https://wiki.documentfound​ation.org/ReleasePlan/5.0
16:01 Krock libreoffice?
16:03 Calinou yes
16:03 Calinou they'll rebrand 4.5.0 as 5.0.0
16:03 Calinou their versioning scheme is quite sane
16:04 luizrpgluiz hi
16:04 Calinou if only we had the same :(
16:04 luizrpgluiz it would be possible someday send commands to the server without being with the client open? Such as the MC?
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16:06 Calinou there is no API yet
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16:12 est31 luizrpgluiz, there is an irc mod
16:12 est31 it has something like that
16:13 est31 but it requires an extra irc server
16:13 Calinou irc_commands
16:14 VanessaE irc + irc_commands and sign onto any random IRC server+channel that'll let you put your server's bot there
16:15 luizrpgluiz est31:    I mean, because when you download the minecraft server server, beyond the server generate the map, it has the bar where you enter the game commands without having to be in the game, like the operating system console
16:16 VanessaE luizrpgluiz: irc+irc_commands is the only way presently to do that.
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16:16 est31 yes there is a feature request bug for supporting that out of the box
16:16 VanessaE there's also a mod, very insecure I'm told, that will respond to commands that are written to an external file
16:17 VanessaE (it re-reads the file every so often and executes whatever's there)
16:17 est31 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2338
16:18 est31 as I thought: the people from http://mc-server.org/ have no installer for their windows binaries either
16:19 est31 bare zip files
16:21 luizrpgluiz I want to interact directly with my server without using mods, ie without entering as administrator
16:21 sofar easy solution would just be to support console stdin input
16:22 luizrpgluiz but how I do it?
16:22 sofar program it
16:23 luizrpgluiz but the future would not be possible to do this?
16:23 est31 I think ShadowNinja's comment is right, we might need ncurses
16:23 sofar sure it's possible to program it
16:23 sofar est31: readline
16:24 sofar ncurses seems overkill
16:24 luizrpgluiz it would be very good staff that develops minetest do this, that is many players or staff who understands server would be very happy
16:24 sofar or do you want to create buttons and windows?
16:25 est31 sofar, problem is: what do we do when the server wants to output something, but we want to enter?
16:25 sofar oh, sure
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16:25 sofar it'd get ugly
16:26 luizrpgluiz you do not understand, I mean it would be possible developers create a minetest server program as in minecraft game
16:26 sofar it still would work, though
16:26 sofar luizrpgluiz: we understand just fine
16:26 Guest2774 Can minetest load minecraft object files (in JSON)?
16:27 Krock it can load meshes
16:27 Guest2774 OK...I'm a newb when it comes to Minecraft-format models - I have a project to create some - and I'm in the learning curve.
16:28 Guest2774 Are "meshes" a subset of the usual file format?
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16:28 Krock I think you mean with "object files" something like figures/forms
16:29 Guest2774 Maybe...  :-)
16:29 rubenwardy Hi all!
16:29 Krock Hi rubenwardy.
16:29 Guest2774 Hi!
16:30 luizrpgluiz because I'm also tired of always entering the server and enter commands in client mode
16:30 Krock Guest2774, I'm stuck in a no-answer-available-hole because I just don't get what you try to do.s
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16:30 Guest2774 So there are more than one kind of model?  I assumed "everything made of cubes" would mean that model files would be similar for all kinds of 'thing' in the game world?
16:31 exio4 hi people
16:31 exio4 who wants a hug
16:31 rubenwardy There are different file formats, like how there are different picture formats, if that's what you mean
16:31 Krock Guest2774, http://irrlicht.sourceforge.n​et/features/#supportedformats
16:31 luizrpgluiz because when I open the server in text mode by the operating system of the terminal, the terminal does not let me enter the necessary commands so I can keep the server in order
16:32 rubenwardy An OpenSSH mod for Minetest would be cool. Don't know how painful the protocol, is, though
16:33 Krock why a mod? Include it in the core.
16:33 Guest2774 @Krock:  OK - I'm a professional game developer (30 years in the biz)...I know there are a gazillion file formats.  I'm interested in the specific formats that Minecraft uses - and need to understand which of those MineTest supports.
16:33 rubenwardy True
16:33 exio4 Guest2774: at least you haven't been using node.js for 30 years
16:34 luizrpgluiz the problem is that they were asking for a program to create the minetest server like minecraft for example
16:34 exio4 Guest2774: what is your opinion on functional programming
16:34 Krock Guest2774, Minetest uses Irrlicht and the site there shows you all supported model and texture formats
16:34 Guest2774 No!  That's true.  Started in C, then C++ then C#/JavaScript/NodeJS/etc, etc.
16:34 exio4 there's only one language in that list that doesn't suck
16:34 exio4 and it is C
16:35 Krock C++ sucks?
16:35 rubenwardy All languages suck
16:35 rubenwardy Face it
16:35 exio4 yes Krock
16:35 Calinou Minecraft uses hardcoded models
16:35 Calinou we do not support Techne exports
16:35 Krock rubenwardy, english sucks.
16:35 Calinou use Blender, Wings3D or a Cube 2 game to make models :P
16:35 rubenwardy Yeah
16:35 exio4 rubenwardy: there's a difference between PHP/Python and ML though
16:35 Krock MLP.
16:35 exio4 no
16:36 rubenwardy Yeah, ML is functional BS
16:36 Krock jk
16:36 rubenwardy </troll>?
16:36 rubenwardy -?
16:36 exio4 functional BS? how is it functional BS?
16:36 exio4 Krock: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_ML
16:36 rubenwardy It's a functional language.
16:36 Guest2774 So models in minecraft are executable programs?   I was reading http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Block_models - which suggests there is at least one kind of formalized "format".
16:36 luizrpgluiz hey all
16:36 rubenwardy I like how the keyword for the function declarations is "fun"
16:37 exio4 give me any reason why it is 'BS'?
16:37 exio4 rubenwardy: syntax is the least of the problems
16:37 exio4 rubenwardy: denotational semantics is the thing that matters
16:37 est31 exio4, when a language applies the off-side rule, I cant take it seriously
16:38 est31 and that is syntax
16:38 luizrpgluiz when going out the new version of minetest? I am very looking forward to the arrival of version 0.5
16:38 exio4 est31: the off-side rule got bad reputation after Python
16:38 exio4 est31: you _can_ have the "off-side" rule and don't end with a crappy language
16:38 est31 its ok in haskell yes
16:38 Krock luizrpgluiz, see #2370
16:40 exio4 est31: have you checked some static typed FP?
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16:41 Calinou Krock, http://i.imgur.com/3DFErLg.png
16:42 est31 FP?
16:42 Krock Calinou, good one :3
16:42 exio4 est31: functional programming (language)
16:42 Guest2774 Let me try a simpler question.  Can MineTest load and display files in the format described in http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Block_models ?
16:43 Calinou nope.
16:43 Calinou we don't open JSON
16:44 Guest2774 OK - that's all I needed to know!  Many thanks guys. Bye.
16:44 Krock Minetest itself can't. Develop Irrlicht to get JSON support
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16:44 Calinou we use jsoncpp, Krock
16:44 Calinou we already support JSON, it is used for the server list
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16:45 Krock Calinou, oh. and use Minetest to convert the JSON data to an Irrlicht mesh?
16:45 Calinou this is suited for an external script
16:56 MinetestBot [git] nerzhul -> minetest/minetest: Use std::vector instead of std::set for Environment::getObjectsInsideRadius 0c634a9 http://git.io/vvixn (2015-04-16T18:37:29+02:00)
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17:22 Milan_ hi there, i have an interesting problem: i had build the minetest and minetest_game from git and doesnt have any bin?! o.O
17:23 Milan_ cmake . -DRUN_IN_PLACE=0 -DBUILD_CLIENT=1 -DUSE_LUAJIT=0 -DBUILD_SERVER=1 -DUSE_REDIS=1 -DREDIS_LIBRARY=/root/hiredis/libhiredis.so -DREDIS_INCLUDE_DIR=/root/hiredis/ -DCURL_INCLUDE_DIR=/usr/bin/curl -DCURL_LIBRARY=/usr/lib/curl
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17:23 ElectronLibre Did you `make` after that?
17:23 ElectronLibre cmake is not enough.
17:24 Milan_ on other trys i did && make -j$(grep -c processor /proc/cpuinfo)
17:24 ElectronLibre From what I recall, cmake prepares the environment for compiling.
17:24 Calinou don't run a server as root
17:24 Calinou use limited privileges
17:25 ElectronLibre With which login did you build it? Maybe being root stops binaries' creation.
17:25 Milan_ thanks for your reference, Calinou ^^
17:25 Milan_ hmm i tryd everytime time as root and this is the first time it dont work o.O
17:25 ElectronLibre Strange..
17:26 Milan_ yes, very :D
17:26 ElectronLibre Did you get any message from cmake or make?
17:26 Milan_ only from make, just a moment...
17:26 ElectronLibre Make will send some warnings.
17:26 Milan_ root/minetest/src/lua/src/loadlib.c:76:21: warning: ISO C forbids conversion of object pointer to function pointer type [-Wpedantic]  lua_CFunction f = (lua_CFunction)dlsym(lib, sym);  ^
17:27 ElectronLibre This is normal (hum, not really, but that's not a big problem)
17:27 Milan_ can it be i forgot a make install?^^
17:28 Milan_ test it this moment... that was mutch server installs the last days, i am distracted xD
17:28 ElectronLibre Wait, if you're trying `minetest` instead of ./bin/minetest , then yes.
17:29 ElectronLibre No make install, no cp ./bin/minetest* /usr/bin/ (no binaries in the PATH).
17:29 Milan_ i tryed into the directory, /usr/bin and /bin  and so on... i used the find command too
17:29 ElectronLibre After make install ?
17:29 Milan_ oh, i see, make install is working, me jackass :D
17:30 Milan_ no errors jet while processing
17:30 ElectronLibre I'm compiling from a fresh clone right now to check.
17:31 ElectronLibre If there is any problem with make install, use ./bin/minetest .
17:31 est31 I always compile minetest to run in place
17:32 Milan_ i hope there is no problem with make install (its take his time) ... because there is nothing in /bin xD
17:32 est31 -DRUN_IN_PLACE=1
17:32 Milan_ i mean nothing with minetest
17:32 ElectronLibre You mean -DRUN_IN_PLACE=1 or without make install?
17:32 Milan_ without make install - with default i use =1 ... =0 was to test
17:33 Milan_ with arch linux anything is simlier :D :D
17:33 ElectronLibre RUN_IN_PLACE=0 will send your datas in ~/.minetest (and some in ./) while RUN_IN_PLACE=1 will keep them in the minetest directory.
17:33 Milan_ *simplier
17:34 Milan_ compilation terminated. src/CMakeFiles/minetest.dir/build.make:2354: recipe for target 'src/CMakeFiles/minetest.dir/httpfetch.cpp.o' failed make[2]: *** [src/CMakeFiles/minetest.dir/httpfetch.cpp.o] Error 1 CMakeFiles/Makefile2:166: recipe for target 'src/CMakeFiles/minetest.dir/all' failed make[1]: *** [src/CMakeFiles/minetest.dir/all] Error 2 Makefile:137: recipe for target 'all' failed make: *** [all] Error 2
17:34 Milan_ hmm
17:34 ElectronLibre Wow.
17:34 ElectronLibre Mine worked.
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17:35 Milan_ will try a fresh git... just a moment...
17:38 Zytum hi
17:39 Milan_ sadly, no errors with make install, but there is no bin available
17:39 Milan_ and hi Zytum
17:39 Zytum :)
17:41 Milan_ a crap, i have to go out to work :( - when you have any ideas...you can contact me on diaspora (technics@pod.tchncs.de) will be happy about that :)
17:41 Milan_ bye
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17:44 Zytum Krock turns on your server? (:
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17:46 Krock Zytum, online.
17:51 Zytum joined #minetest
17:51 Zytum fu***ng connetion
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18:41 AndroidKris Is there a mod that expands the size of my inventory?
18:41 luizrpgluiz this staff is asking me admin on my server, these idiots.
18:41 AndroidKris I've seen a few that do it, but they do other things as well. I don't want all that other stuff, just like to add like two pages to the inventory when I hit "i"
18:42 luizrpgluiz these people is very rude
18:42 AndroidKris Maybe they are just doing their job?
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18:43 Calinou http://code.divshot.com/geo-bootstrap/
18:43 Calinou haha
18:43 Krock AndroidKris, unified_inventory adds a bag system. It gives you additinal inventory slots
18:43 AndroidKris Ill look it up, thanks Krock.
18:44 luizrpgluiz I mean that the people who are coming into my server is very rude
18:44 Krock np
18:45 luizrpgluiz already had a delayed asking me all grant led ban on time
18:46 luizrpgluiz not like that kind of person
18:52 luizrpgluiz Krock: in minetest.conf I saw that the to access the server remotely
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18:53 Krock luizrpgluiz, what are you talking about?
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18:57 luizrpgluiz Krock: when I saw the minetest.conf.example, I saw a door that's to access the server remotely, as this line # Port to connect to (UDP)
18:57 luizrpgluiz #remote_port =
18:57 Krock luizrpgluiz, which day do we have? Sorry but trash this theme
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19:11 Calinou http://ngplant.org/
19:11 Calinou I stumbled upon this
19:13 sfan5 Calinou: whats with that surveillance law thing france is currently doing?
19:13 Calinou it passed
19:13 sfan5 i read that ovh wanted to leave france if the law passes
19:13 Calinou data retention is now 5 years
19:14 sfan5 gg
19:14 sfan5 in germany they're currently discussing keeping data for 10 weeks
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19:14 sfan5 (currently there is no data retention iirc)
19:14 Calinou 80% of companies close before 5 years
19:17 sfan5 Calinou: https://www.rudebaguette.com/2015/04/15/e​uropes-1-hosting-provider-threatens-leave​-latest-french-surveillance-law-passes/
19:20 ElectronLibre It was sure it would pass. The government did everything to make is pass.
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19:21 VanessaE sounds like it was good that I got off of OVH when I did :)
19:24 sfan5 http://blog.ovh.com/
19:24 sfan5 what
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20:32 MinetestBot [git] kwolekr -> minetest/minetest: Schematics: Refactor NodeResolver and add NodeResolveMethod 479f389 http://git.io/vvXPG (2015-04-16T16:27:05-04:00)
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20:52 ElectronLibre Does someone know if there is any way to run a specific function when a player is hurt (by anything in the environment)?
21:00 AndroidKris ElectronLibre, like eating an apple as soon as damage is taken?
21:01 ElectronLibre No, at the exact moment the player gets hurt.
21:02 AndroidKris how do you mean? eating to heal takes an action, which has to occur after the damage is taken. laws of physics, Action -then- reaction
21:04 AndroidKris not only that, but eating an apple to heal only returns one heart, what if you lose multiple hearts. Eating multiple apples takes longer than just one.
21:04 ElectronLibre The function I want to create randomly drops and itemstack from the player's inventory when they are hurt.
21:04 ElectronLibre And the server I want to create this for uses a subgame that doesn't require players to eat to increase their hp.
21:05 AndroidKris like a reaction to being hurt then. Get smacked in the head, drop your pick because it staggered you.
21:05 VanessaE ElectronLibre: you mean some kind of before-damage callback
21:05 ElectronLibre For example.
21:06 AndroidKris gtg, childeren are crying.
21:06 ElectronLibre VanessaE, before-damage or after-damage, it's not important, whenever it's after the player is hurt.
21:06 VanessaE yeah thing is, I don't see any such thing in the API...
21:07 ElectronLibre Yes, I spent about 10 minutes looking for something like that in the API but there is nothing, so I ended up asking if anyone had an idea.
21:07 ElectronLibre But apparently, it's impossible at the moment.. The only thing I thought of was redefining the player's on_punch function but it would be a big mess.
21:08 VanessaE there IS an on_punch callback though
21:08 VanessaE looks like there's *just* enough info supplied that you could calculate damage that would be given
21:08 VanessaE (and then either apply the damage or drop your items or whatever)
21:08 VanessaE except that's for entities.
21:09 VanessaE hrm,
21:09 ElectronLibre It could cover about 1/5 of the damages' causes using the subgame I want to develop the mod for.
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21:11 VanessaE time to suggest a feature then on github.
21:12 ElectronLibre Great. So I fill the issue, and then it will just be time for me to go. I'm just gonna search if there have been any similar request.
21:14 VanessaE ok
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21:21 ElectronLibre Ok, there is no issue related to a on_hp_change callback. I'm going to write for a while.
21:36 ElectronLibre There it is, with my grammaticaly horrible english : https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2631
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