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IRC log for #minetest, 2015-04-13

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 exio4 (you basically gave up the _only_ useful thing with tabs)
00:00 exio4 brb, will be back in 15 minutes
00:04 Pilcrow well, that may be true, but on the other hand, the size of spaces is not configurable. I'd rather someone use tiny tabs, and then have it be a little messed up for me, versus having someone use two spaces instead of tabs (making it hard for me to read, and no way to change that without running it through sed, etc)...
00:13 exio4 Pilcrow: by tiny tabs I meant 4 spaces per tab
00:13 exio4 Pilcrow: and "small tabs" are somewhat ok when you use bigger font szes
00:14 exio4 Pilcrow: I can't basically stand more than 4 spaces per tab in my main setup
00:14 exio4 because I use what you could consider a not so small font size
00:16 exio4 btw, not only smaller but bigger tab sizes may break the "alignment with tabs"
00:16 exio4 because you used two but you only need one, therefore you're now wasting space
00:18 Pilcrow alright, I get your point. I'm not saying using spaces is bad, just that either way, using spaces or tabs, your code will be messed up for someone. As for me, I don't like it when I'm trying to change some code and others have used spaces. so obviously, I'm not going to use them myself. they make code feel 'messy' to me.
00:19 exio4 when you are working with other people's code you need to use that people's tab space for making the code look coherent in different setups, too
00:20 Pilcrow yes, that's true. I'm not saying I change their spacing. I was more or less talking about borrowing functions.
00:21 exio4 borrowing functions means you should be using a better lnguage which lets you have better abstraction capabilities, but sure
00:21 exio4 giving a crappy language you need crappy techniques :3
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00:23 exio4 copying functions is a pretty silly thing to do
00:23 exio4 it means you now have to mantain a copy of working code
00:25 Pilcrow well, I was speaking mostly from a lua standpoint, as that's what I porgram in the most, lately. using sections of other peoples' code to properly set up on_place stuff that can detect and run a pointed node's on_rightclick, etc.
00:26 exio4 Pilcrow: I am just kidding, but if the code is reusable, it should be giving a name
00:27 Pilcrow 'giving a name'?
00:27 exio4 given*
00:27 Pilcrow oh
00:27 Pilcrow lol. ok.
00:28 VanessaE ok, I'm ready to push that change to signs_lib
00:28 exio4 make it an high order function which can be reused in other code and libraries
00:28 VanessaE people are gonna hate me for this because it breaks old worlds
00:28 VanessaE old worlds that had signs_lib before I mean
00:28 Pilcrow the rotation thing, VanessaE?
00:28 VanessaE but it should now be fully compatible with worlds that didn't have it before
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00:28 VanessaE Pilcrow: yeah.  copious use of the screwdriver is indicated to fix said breakage.
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00:31 Pilcrow too bad there's not some way to make a destinction between 'old' and 'new' signs_lib signs, so you can run an abm to convert the old ones... but that's a lot of effort
00:31 VanessaE yeah I know.
00:32 VanessaE could be done with an ABM but it would only work if the node name is changed (otherwise the ABM would never run out of nodes to trigger on)
00:32 Pilcrow honestly, the easiest way to do that would be a namespace change. but then it would screw up mods that depend on signs_lib...
00:34 VanessaE pushed to git.
00:35 Pilcrow oh, and exio4, I understood what you mean by the statement that reuseable code should be given a name. that's not always the case though. and even if it is, most of us like to avoid extra dependencies...  ;)
00:37 exio4 make a mod that would be called pilcrow_reusable_functions that could be reused
00:43 Pilcrow heh. I may do that sometime. I've got repeated code anyway, lol. but more and more, now, I find myself creating my own 'register' functions, such as the register_command function in my as-of-yet unreleased hoverbot mod https://github.com/Pilcrow182/hoverb​ot/blob/master/command_items.lua#L3
00:47 VanessaE https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.ph​p?f=11&t=2041&p=176044#p176044
00:49 Pilcrow incidentally, VanessaE, who wrote the nodebreaker code that was in earlier versions of pipeworks? the code in my hoverbot's mimic_player function originally came from that, so I'm interested in giving credit where credit is due.
00:51 VanessaE I think nore did
00:51 VanessaE either he or RBA anyways.
00:53 Pilcrow btw, where did the nodebreaker go? I've been using an ancient pipeworks; I never had a reason to update it because it does everything I want...  :P
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01:16 Pilcrow lol what if some one just made a commit titled "s/old_code/new_code/"
01:17 Pilcrow hooray for random stupid thoughts!  :D
01:23 exio4 Pilcrow: it's pretty much the right thing(tm)
01:23 exio4 Pilcrow: repeating code is one of the easier-to-see bad ways to write something out there
01:28 exio4 (or the lack of proper abstraction machanisms in your language of choice)
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01:44 everamzah Pilcrow: Thank you for hoverbot!
01:49 exio4 hmmmm: Minetest could use Safe Haskell 8)
01:49 Pilcrow everamzah: be warned, it's not done yet and may cause crashes (which is why I haven't put it on the forum yet). but you're welcome to use it...  :)
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01:57 sofar Pilcrow: added tomatoes to my crops mod, fyi
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02:07 Pilcrow awesome, sofar. I still haven't tried the corn yet; I've been too busy. but I will  get the new version so I can try both corn and tomatoes  :)
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02:46 everamzah Pilcrow: yes, i experienced crashes trying to use the digibank.  but i had a blast putting it all together on a fresh world.
02:47 Pilcrow yes, digibank is another mod I am going to make. it doesn't exist yet. using it should not cause a crash though; it SHOULD do the same thing as using the sleep command... I'll need to look into that.
02:50 exio4 having a "polymorphic semicolon" would be cool
02:50 Pilcrow exio4: uhh, what?  :P
02:50 exio4 lemme make a paste
02:55 exio4 Pilcrow: http://dpaste.com/1VVJ0NZ
02:56 exio4 the idea is that "bind" and "pure" do different things based on how you use them
02:56 exio4 you could have a bind that defines "async operations"
02:57 exio4 such that "a ; b " would actually run "a" and "b" in some kind of concurrency / parallel "behavior"
02:57 exio4 concurrent*
02:58 exio4 maybe you could also have a bind function such that if the value is nil, it stops "executing" that function and just returns nil
02:58 exio4 that way, going past assignment means the value you have in that variable MUST be non null
02:59 exio4 another one, maybe "stop executing things" after a special valued "exception", which wouldn't need to do anything weird
02:59 exio4 it'd just be not call the next function
02:59 exio4 it'd be a bit like CPS
02:59 exio4 _just a bit_
03:00 Pilcrow ahh... now I get what you mean. yes that would be cool.
03:01 exio4 it would be cool if you also had the posibility to restrict things using that too
03:02 exio4 maybe you could have some kind of "pair" of bind/pure that would run in parallel BUT can't access the map (as an example)
03:02 exio4 such function would be "easilly parallelizable" and you wouldn't be able to break invariants from it
03:02 exio4 it'd have to be enforced somehow
03:03 Pilcrow race conditions could still happen if your bind simply returns nil though; perhaps it would be useful to have a bind function that, if the value is nil, waits until either a certain number of cycles passed OR the value becomes non-nil?
03:03 exio4 Pilcrow: I don't get how the race condition could happen
03:04 exio4 when bind returns nil the "rest" of the computation won't ever run, because it's a function which you'll be throwing away (and the garbage collector should collect)
03:04 Pilcrow maybe I'm just dense. I'm only half paying attention. trying to fix something.  :P
03:04 exio4 Pilcrow: oh, you mean, the "concurrent bind" ?
03:05 exio4 that one wouldn't check for nil
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03:06 exio4 it'd run things in a different coroutine / thread / spark and give you a variable which, somehow (how this is done is "how you might like and/or find it easier to work with"?) can't be "just accesed" but needs you to have a different bind-ish function
03:09 exio4 whenValueReady (var, function (valueAvailable) ... end, function (retry) ... end), which you'd give two extra functions, the first one you'd be the one when "you could access" and the other would be with what you should and a new function which, if called, would mean you retry
03:09 exio4 maybe, you avoid that other function, and "always" retry, but don't assume that (and then you'd have some kind of bind, which could be used with (; and =)) plus this function could be a primitive
03:10 Pilcrow everamzah: the latest commit should fix the crash. the digibank commands still don't do anything, but they're at least stable now. https://github.com/Pilcrow182/hoverbot
03:12 exio4 dat wall of text
03:14 Pilcrow haha. now I can pay more attention. and yes, I get it. this stuff goes just barely over my head, so I've gotta strain to understand, lol.
03:16 Pilcrow I think it's finally time I put my hoverbot on the forum. hoverbot.mimic_player could still use some work, but I feel it's good enough to at least go in WIP...  :)
03:19 exio4 I guess
03:19 exio4 it's basically an high order mess
03:21 Pilcrow my mod is? I know it's messy; I can never seem to make clean code (especially remembering to comment)... but it's functional and relatively stable...  :P
03:21 exio4 no, not your mod
03:21 exio4 I meant what I wrote
03:22 Pilcrow ok. well. my mod is a mess anyway.
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03:22 exio4 lol
03:22 Pilcrow lol
03:22 exio4 will check the code
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03:22 exio4 http://www.lua.org/pil/6.3.html was reading this
03:22 Pilcrow although, Zeno` seemed to like my style, for some reason  :)
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03:24 exio4 Pilcrow: you could use some functions in init.lua
03:24 exio4 hoverbot.tab0 = "button["..tostring(tabsize*0)..",0;"..to​string(tabsize)..",1;page0;Inventory]"-- inventory button
03:24 exio4 replace that with something like
03:25 * Pilcrow couldn't figure out how to make the interface code into a function, or he would have.
03:26 exio4 function tabButton(n, title) return "button..."..tostring(tabsi​ze*n).."blabla"..title.."]"
03:26 exio4 then hoverbot.tab0 = tabButton(0, "Inventory")
03:27 Pilcrow actually, I only just recently figured out that hoverbot.tab0 and hoverbot["tab0"] are the same. knowing that, I could probably make it into a loop...  :)
03:27 exio4 the same applies to to page1..page5
03:28 exio4 well, a loop would kinda work
03:28 exio4 I don't like having too much logic inside a loop because loops are dumb
03:29 Pilcrow yes, perhaps I will make that into a function first. and possibly see if I can use ecutruin's model as a meshnode so I don't have all those nodeboxes...  :)
03:29 exio4 this is just me btw
03:29 ecutruin o/
03:29 exio4 because I hate mutable data, just that
03:29 Pilcrow hi ecutruin  :)
03:30 exio4 \o ecutruin
03:32 Pilcrow yes, exio4, I see what you're saying about the loops. but I think I will make the pages a function, and register the tabs in a loop within that function (as they're all technically part of the "page" anyway)
03:32 exio4 I would define a function that does the work
03:32 exio4 and a single loop that calls the functions
03:34 exio4 I am going to sleep, <3 good night
03:34 Pilcrow sleep well exio4
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03:38 Pilcrow ecutruin: still no luck figuring out how to use your model, but I haven't looked into it much; I've been fixing bugs and stuff first. also, my hoverbot texture is an animation, currently (the fan blades on the bottom spin). I'll probably use your texture even if I can't use my animated texture with it, for the speed improvement, but I'd *like* to find a way to keep my spinning blades...  :)
03:40 Rick-Rolled Hey guys, I have another problem. I've been playing Minetest from the Linux desktop. Now I would like to host a server from my laptop. Whenever I issue the command minetestserver --gameid <game name>, I get the following: http://pastebin.com/dzXQ0Htx
03:42 Pilcrow Rick-Rolled: what are you using in <game name>?
03:42 Rick-Rolled The world is called WAFE
03:44 Pilcrow ah. --gameid is for changing the subgame (like game mode, i.e. minetest_game, minimal, etc). what you want is minetestserver --worldname WAFE
03:45 Pilcrow you may need to use minetestserver --gameid minetest --worldname WAFE
03:45 Pilcrow but try without gameid first
03:45 VanessaE Rick-Rolled: I pushed the signs change
03:45 VanessaE update your homedecor modpack please
03:46 Rick-Rolled it works with gameid now. Thanks guys. Also, I'll try it VanessaE
03:46 VanessaE Rick-Rolled: all default signs will keep their correct rotation unless you've already changed them to work with signs_lib from before this evening's update.
03:47 VanessaE (if you have made no changes, then you can just go ahead and update homedecor and install it and you shouldn't see any rotation problems)
03:47 Rick-Rolled It isn't the rotation that's bothering me. I cannot write anything on them.
03:47 VanessaE odd.  I explicitly tested for that problem as well when I was making the update.
03:47 Rick-Rolled I haven't checked the update yet. I'll try it first.
03:47 VanessaE I had no trouble writing to old signs that I put in there before the update in my test world
03:48 Rick-Rolled But the rotation wasn't bothering me.
03:48 VanessaE well anyway, it works :)
03:48 Rick-Rolled Thanks.
03:49 Rick-Rolled Guys, my mods are all being reported as not found when I start with gamid minetest worldname WAFE
03:49 Rick-Rolled *gameid
03:49 VanessaE Rick-Rolled: are they enabled in your world's world.mt file?
03:50 Rick-Rolled Yes they are.
03:50 VanessaE can you pastebin your debug.txt ?
03:50 Rick-Rolled I should also note that I'm working from the home directory, with an installed version of minetest.
03:50 VanessaE (the whole run from the most recent "separator" on down
03:50 VanessaE )
03:51 Pilcrow VanessaE: is it called minetest or minetest_game when using --gameid? it's been a while since I've run it manually (I created my own GUI for running local servers a long time ago)
03:52 VanessaE Pilcrow: minetest_game is how I specify it
03:52 Pilcrow ah. try that, then, Rick-Rolled. minetestserver --gameid minetest_game --worldname WAFE
03:52 Rick-Rolled debug.txt can't be read.
03:53 Rick-Rolled gedit can't determine encoding.
03:53 Pilcrow how odd...
03:53 VanessaE wat
03:54 VanessaE cat it to your terminal then
03:54 Rick-Rolled Still getting the same:  ERROR[main]: The following mods could not be found:
03:54 VanessaE just cat it and copy&paste
03:54 Pilcrow if you open a terminal and cat debug.txt, does it output correctly?
03:54 VanessaE and be prepared to close the terminal after you paste it
03:54 VanessaE (because the `cat` will probably dump gibberish)
03:55 VanessaE Pilcrow: 10 minegeld says he's got one of those gibberish serialization errors in there :)
03:55 Pilcrow heh. VanessaE beat me to it.  :P
03:55 Rick-Rolled cat worked fine. No gibberish.
03:55 VanessaE heh, I guess I owe you 10 mg ;)
03:56 Rick-Rolled http://pastebin.com/WksydfNA
03:56 Pilcrow haha, VanessaE. I've only ever encountered those serialization errors when doing weird things in on_rightclick, etc.
03:57 VanessaE Rick-Rolled: OH, those would be mods that were enabled at one time and which you have since deleted, probably
03:57 Rick-Rolled no, I have them in the mods folder. Do they need to be in the world folder itself instead?
03:57 Pilcrow wow. that is a lot of mods
03:58 VanessaE Rick-Rolled: they just need to be in some folder where minetest can find them.  since you said you're running an installed copy, they need to be in ~/.minetest/mods (for ~ is the username running your server)
03:58 Rick-Rolled Most of them are from mesecons Pilcrow
03:58 Pilcrow Rick-Rolled: do us a favor. check your server computers mods folder and see if all those mods are still there.
03:58 VanessaE or you can put them in ~/.minetest/worlds/WAFE/worldmods
03:58 Rick-Rolled They are in .minetest/mods
03:59 VanessaE are you sure they're in the .minetest for the user that's actually running the server?
03:59 Rick-Rolled Pilcrow, just checked. They're still in there.
03:59 VanessaE what about permissions for that directory?
04:00 Rick-Rolled They're in my home directory and I'm typing minetestserver. I'll check permissions.
04:01 Pilcrow hmm. odd. they should be seen, if they're in ~/.minetest. Well, it shouldn't be necessary, but if you go into your world folder, create a worldmods folder, and copy the stuff into that, it should work... but then, it shouldn't be causing problems the way it is now, anyway...
04:04 Rick-Rolled Now every one of them has unsatified dependencies. I've run this server through the GUI and everything went fine. I setup a spawning area with singleplayer in creative mode.
04:06 Hijiri does minetest handle cyclic dependencies?
04:06 VanessaE cyclic?
04:06 VanessaE you mean circular deps?
04:06 Hijiri the graph of dependencies has cycles
04:06 VanessaE I think it can detect them and error out
04:06 Hijiri what if it works alright?
04:07 Hijiri will it error out anyway
04:07 Pilcrow Hijiri: as in, one mod1 depends on mod2 and mod2 depends on mod1?
04:07 VanessaE I don't know then
04:07 Hijiri sure, or longer chains of dependency
04:08 Pilcrow Rick-Rolled: may I see your debug.txt again, please?
04:09 Hijiri I tested it, it doesn't error out
04:09 Hijiri I just made two mods, cyclea and cycleb that depend on each other
04:09 Hijiri with empty init.lua
04:10 VanessaE Hijiri: it's called a "circular dependency", not cyclic.
04:10 Rick-Rolled I just Pilcrow, here's a little further back http://pastebin.com/Q0yGkcxa
04:10 Rick-Rolled I just opened it through the GUI. The last error is what came up there.
04:10 Hijiri "cyclic dependency" refers to the same thing
04:11 Hijiri and is more accurate in my opinion, since dependencies are graphs and not geometric objects
04:11 Pilcrow VanessaE: I have heard it called both
04:12 Pilcrow ... it can't find default??
04:12 Pilcrow Rick-Rolled: did you use --gameid minetest, or --gameid minetest_game?
04:13 Rick-Rolled minetest_game
04:13 Pilcrow try with just minetest
04:13 Rick-Rolled mods could not be found.
04:13 Pilcrow any other ideas, guys?  :\
04:14 Rick-Rolled sorry, unsatified dependencies
04:15 Rick-Rolled was looking in the wrong section. Let me go ahead and check permissions.
04:16 Rick-Rolled set permissions to 777 and still no good.
04:16 Pilcrow this has really got me stumped now. if you're specifying the right gameid, default should be found since it's a part of the minetest game... but your mods can't load because minetest can't find default...
04:17 * Pilcrow scratches head
04:18 VanessaE unless you're specifying a game that's empty :)
04:19 Rick-Rolled Is there a way to move the server game back into the singleplayer tab? It's not there now that I've ran it in server mode. Also, I deleted the singleplayer.
04:20 VanessaE huh?
04:21 VanessaE you....edited the core menu?
04:21 Rick-Rolled but I just restored singleplayer file. The WAFE game isn't showing up in the singleplayer tab of the GUI since I tried to run it as a server.
04:21 VanessaE minetest subgames don't work like that....
04:22 Rick-Rolled What's a subgame?
04:22 VanessaE minetest_game is a subgame
04:22 Pilcrow VanessaE: I think Rick-Rolled means he/she went into the players directory and deleted singleplayer?
04:22 VanessaE dreambuilder is another example
04:22 VanessaE minimal, too
04:23 VanessaE we call them "sub" games because lots of people call "Minetest"-the-engine a game, when it's just an engine.
04:23 Rick-Rolled yes, I deleted the singleplayer file from players.
04:23 VanessaE so the actual content, assets, etc are termed "subgames" to avoid confusion.
04:23 * Pilcrow wishes he knew more about the directory structure for system-wide installs; I've never built minetest without -DRUN_IN_PLACE=1
04:23 VanessaE deleting the singleplayer player file doesn't do anything bad
04:24 VanessaE that just removes singleplayer's inventory for a particular world.  nothing important there.
04:25 Rick-Rolled So can I get the game back into the singleplay tab of the GUI?
04:25 Rick-Rolled *singleplayer
04:25 VanessaE if it's missing from the singleplayer tab, that just means your client can't find it - copy your minetest_game from wherever you last had it to ~/.minetest/games
04:26 VanessaE e.g. ~/.minetest/games/minetest_game/default   etc etc
04:27 Rick-Rolled is the ~/.minetest/games folder supposed to already exist?
04:29 VanessaE probably not
04:29 VanessaE create it, with regular 755 permissions
04:29 VanessaE put minetest_game and your other subgames there
04:31 Rick-Rolled would install c55 help?
04:31 Rick-Rolled *installing
04:32 VanessaE no.
04:32 VanessaE any version of minetest bearing c55's name is outdated.
04:32 VanessaE if you're not using 0.4.12, you're out of date :)
04:33 Pilcrow O_o where would you even get an old -c55 version any more? do they actually still exist in some distro's repos??
04:34 VanessaE yeah, the daily builds PPA I think still has them
04:34 VanessaE nope, it doesn;'t
04:34 VanessaE doesn't*
04:34 Pilcrow lol
04:35 VanessaE the stable one does though!
04:35 VanessaE https://launchpad.net/~minete​stdevs/+archive/ubuntu/stable
04:35 VanessaE wow, there's some old-ass builds there, too!
04:35 VanessaE minetestc55, 0.3.1~maverick1
04:35 VanessaE O_O
04:36 Pilcrow huh. I thought c55 was dropped from the official name long before 0.4.10...
04:36 VanessaE it was.
04:36 VanessaE he was...er, whatever :)
04:37 Pilcrow lol. c55 != celeron55 in this context. I'm speaking of the label, not the person.  ;)
04:38 VanessaE so was I
04:38 VanessaE but it still sounds odd :)
04:38 Pilcrow but I find it odd that the ppa lists 0.4.10 as minetestc55...  :P
04:41 Pilcrow in fact, I think the c55 was dropped from the name way back in 0.4.0, since it was the first official "community" build. but that was before I got here, so I might be mistaken...
04:41 VanessaE naw, wasn't THAT far back
04:41 * Pilcrow started with 0.4.4 I think. maybe 0.4.5
04:42 VanessaE it was, I think, somewhere around 0.4.5-ish that it was dropped from the title screen
04:42 VanessaE (assuming you saw the old-dirt-based title screen at all and not the clouds)
04:42 Pilcrow ah, alright. I assume I just missed it then. yes, I think I saw the dirt.
04:43 Pilcrow man, it's been a while... can you believe I stuck with vanilla minetest_game all the way until 0.4.6-dev?  :P
04:44 Pilcrow I remember being so mad about lavacooling ruining my water-lava-spiral thing in my singleplayer world...  :D
04:44 VanessaE "Minetest-c55" was dropped from the name back in Feb 2013
04:44 VanessaE commit 497ff1ecd64c8908f988e15ca879824f2781e3fd
04:45 Rick-Rolled I have purged and reinstalled minetest. I'm running everything from the gui now.
04:45 Rick-Rolled Too frustrating :(
04:45 Pilcrow :\ sorry Rick-Rolled. it really shouldn't be this hard...
04:46 Rick-Rolled You're fine. I just erased the world and started over.
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04:50 Pilcrow VanessaE: just curious, how long were you a part of the Minetest community? As I recall, you were already a fairly proficient modder when I first started to use mods...  :)
04:51 Pilcrow s/were you/have you been/
04:51 VanessaE Pilcrow: since the third week of March, 2012.
04:51 VanessaE joined the forum on Apr 1, 2012.
04:53 Pilcrow ah. yep, about a year and a half before me (though I still don't post much)
04:54 * Pilcrow joined Sep 12, 2013
04:55 Pilcrow been a long time either way though... you'd think we'd get bored!  :P
04:57 VanessaE heh
04:59 Pilcrow the only thing I've played as much as minetest is Phantasy Star Online v2. yes, the one from September 24, 2001. Originally released for Sega Dreamcast. yeah......  :P
05:01 Pilcrow O.O I just did the math. I was 13 when that game came out! Didn't discover it until college though. If I had, I'd have probably failed some classes....  xD
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06:04 Pilcrow haha. ServerError: error in error handling
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06:37 MinetestBot [git] paramat -> minetest/minetest: Conf.example: Update, fix and improve mapgen flags docs 39fd4da http://git.io/vvYw2 (2015-04-13T07:35:25+01:00)
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06:51 Consortium Hi
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07:11 MinetestBot [git] kwolekr -> minetest/minetest: Schematics: Reorganize (de)serialization and add Lua serialization API b2a89c0 http://git.io/vvYXX (2015-04-13T03:10:52-04:00)
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07:47 OldCoder VanessaE, you are asleep, right?
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07:57 Consortium OldCoder
07:57 OldCoder Consortium
07:57 OldCoder :P
08:00 Consortium OldCoder: Need help https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-iDMmT​wTCIduEDEil7DWachERj4PSwSbp_zzS6eeH2w/edit
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08:04 OldCoder Consortium, R
08:05 OldCoder This is quite a list!
08:05 OldCoder What help do you need?
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08:14 Rick-Rolled can anyone tell me if they can access my server?
08:16 Miner_48er !up 104.236.25.60
08:16 MinetestBot 104.236.25.60:30000 seems to be down
08:17 Rick-Rolled Can you play it Miner_48er?
08:17 Krock If MTB says, it's down, then it's down
08:17 Miner_48er Rick-Rolled did you port forward it?
08:18 Rick-Rolled Reverse port forward hrough ssh. However, I'm also jumping through a second router (as I'm on my neighbor's connection with a big firewall).
08:19 Rick-Rolled *through
08:19 Miner_48er ok what ip and port is it on?
08:20 Krock Your setup sounds quite complicate
08:20 Krock d
08:21 Rick-Rolled It's on the 104.236.25.60 ip with the 30000 port.
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08:21 Rick-Rolled krock, it was the only way I could think of to bypass the firewall.
08:21 JamesTait Good morning all; happy Monday and happy Scrabble Day! :-D
08:22 Krock Rick-Rolled, so you can't just port-forward one router and remove the 2nd router?
08:23 Rick-Rolled Nope, the second router is feeding from the first (across the street).
08:24 Consortium Morning JamesTait and OldCoder , we need to catalog new ideas
08:24 Rick-Rolled Morning Consortium.
08:24 JamesTait Consortium, o/
08:25 Miner_48er RickRolled could you port forward both routers?
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08:25 Krock Hi Consortium. Add the idea "Idea creating machine" to your list.
08:25 Krock Rick-Rolled, port-forward your server on the 1st router and forward the 1st router on your 2nd
08:26 Rick-Rolled My computer and VPS are actually whats connected. I only have access to the second router and don't know how to port forward it.
08:27 Consortium Krock: very funny
08:27 Rick-Rolled They're connected via ssh proxy. Any connections the VPS receives on port 30000 are supposed to go to my computer on that port.
08:30 Rick-Rolled Essentially, this is what I've done http://toic.org/blog/2009/r​everse-ssh-port-forwarding/#.VSt-V-Q2ztQ
08:33 Consortium JamesTait
08:34 Krock Rick-Rolled, dunno about ssh but could UDP be the problem?
08:35 Rick-Rolled SOCKS5 (the proxy which ssh uses) supports UDP so I doubt it.
08:36 Rick-Rolled It's probably something to do with ssh that I've missed. I'll be back later after I post something to quora.
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09:08 Consortium Rick-Rolled
09:08 Consortium So... why the beef?
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13:15 VanessaE OldCoder: *poke*
13:20 Krock ~give VanessaE https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=3&amp;t=11838
13:20 ShadowBot VanessaE: <https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=3&amp;t=11838>
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16:32 ShadowNinja Anyone here have a usable installation of Windows or OSX that can test a PR on it?
16:33 ShadowNinja Specifically https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2613
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16:41 Krock ShadowNinja, testing on windows
16:42 ShadowNinja Thanks :-)
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16:50 Krock ShadowNinja, it can't open "#include <sys/time.h>"
16:51 Krock Threading.cpp:37
16:51 Krock the next error might be unistd.h
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16:54 ShadowNinja Krock: Add "#ifndef _WIN32" on its own line after define THREAD_HANDLE and "#endif" before define UNUSED.
16:54 rubenwardy Hi all!
16:55 ShadowNinja (in threading/Thread.cpp)
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16:59 Krock ShadowNinja, atomic.hpp:76 #if -> #ifdef
17:00 Krock also, THREAD_HANDLE isn't defined after the first change
17:00 ShadowNinja Fixed.
17:00 ShadowNinja Krock: Make sure the ifdef is after the THREAD_HANDLE define.
17:01 Krock fixed with an #else #define THREAD_HANDLE thread #endif after the section #ifndef _WIN32
17:02 Krock Linking now..
17:07 Krock ShadowNinja, I can play in a singleplayer world with that patch, so I think it was a success
17:08 ShadowNinja Krock: Alright.  Wait a bit, I'll tweak it a bit more and see if it works now.  Is this under MSVC BTW?
17:10 Krock Yes, MSVC
17:10 ShadowNinja Krock: Can you remove the #include <winsock2.h> and change the #include <windows.h> to <windef.h> in Mutex.hpp without errors?
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17:11 Krock ShadowNinja, nope. too many typedefs are missing
17:12 ShadowNinja Krock: Hmmm, how about just removing winsock2 and defining WIN32_LEAN_AND_MEAN?
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17:13 ShadowNinja (It would be nice if MS actually docuemnted this stuff where I could find it)
17:14 Krock No errors yet
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17:15 Krock But seriously, that's an interesting definition
17:16 ShadowNinja Yeah, makes windows.h not inclued every bleeping system-related header on the system.
17:17 Krock Anything other on the to-compile-list?
17:18 rubenwardy I want to see how much RAM Minetest is taking up. Is it RSS or VSZ I'm looking at?
17:18 Calinou RSS
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17:22 rubenwardy Do meshes/textures/resources take up the most memory in Minetestserver? If I use remote_url_cache, will this memory be freed?
17:23 Krock why would meshes take memory? They're just sent to the clients
17:23 rubenwardy Are they read directly from the filesystem each time a client requests it?
17:24 Krock dunno, but there's a way to check it.
17:24 rubenwardy minetest_game is 2mb, so probably not much of a problem with vanilla
17:26 rubenwardy minetestserver goes from 11mb to 113mb when a player joins, this is probably due to loaded chunks, right?
17:26 ShadowNinja Krock: Well, try using just winnt.h.
17:27 Krock ShadowNinja, thousands of "default-int" errors
17:27 Krock missing typedefs again
17:27 ShadowNinja :-|
17:28 ShadowNinja Well, I'll push some tweaks in a minute for you to check.
17:29 ShadowNinja Oh, also try removing the process.h include.  It doesn't look like that defines anything we use.
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17:51 ShadowNinja Krock: Pushed, try now.
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18:06 Johnsen2 ~seen shadowninja2005
18:06 ShadowBot Johnsen2: I haven't seen shadowninja2005 in #minetest.
18:06 Johnsen2 ~seen Shadowninja2005
18:06 ShadowBot Johnsen2: I haven't seen Shadowninja2005 in #minetest.
18:06 Johnsen2 :/
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18:08 Krock even the 3rd check won't change anything, Johnsen2
18:09 * Sokomine grabs a few plants and stares at them
18:10 Sokomine why are there so many farming-forks? and they're all very similar....
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18:10 Sokomine like every mob mod having a sheep...
18:11 rubenwardy The new crops is exciting
18:11 Sokomine in how far, rubenwardy?
18:11 ShadowNinja Krock: Does the latest push work?
18:11 Krock ShadowNinja, compiling.
18:11 rubenwardy Well, meh. I like the multiple stage havesting and the realism
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18:13 Johnsen2 ShadowNinja
18:14 Johnsen2 Have you seen someone called: shadowninja2005? he is not an imposter just a friend of mine.
18:14 ShadowNinja Hmmm, seems not...
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18:14 ShadowNinja No.
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18:16 Zytum hi!
18:17 Zytum Krock, I have troubles to connect to your map
18:17 Hijiri to make a block a solid color, is the best way to just use a 1px texture with the color I want
18:17 Krock ShadowNinja, threading\Thread.cpp(132): error C3861: "_beginthreadex": identifier wasn't found
18:17 Krock Zytum, started.
18:17 ShadowNinja Krock: Yeah, working on that now.
18:18 Zytum ok, thanks
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18:26 ShadowNinja Krock: Pushed again.
18:26 ShadowNinja I should probably set up a MinGW build env.
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18:31 Krock Yes, that solved it.
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18:55 Hijiri do we have library-ish mods
18:55 Hijiri that just provide convenient functions, data structures, etc
18:55 Calinou yeah, we have fstk (formspec toolkit)
18:55 Calinou we have a lot
18:56 Calinou Hijiri, http://nimg.pf-control.de/MTstuff/mo​dSearch.php?st=0&amp;at=0&amp;q=lib
18:57 Hijiri thanks
19:02 rubenwardy !mod lib
19:02 MinetestBot rubenwardy: [Lib] Smart Formspecs [smartfs] by rubenwardy - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=7553
19:02 rubenwardy Oh. Nvm
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19:37 OldCoder VanessaE, Captain *Pike*
19:37 OldCoder PM when around
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19:47 est31 I think the inchra shadowbot is run by her
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19:47 est31 so you can /msg ShadowBot ~tell VanessaE supersecret thing
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20:03 thonza hi. character spin
20:05 Hijiri hmm
20:05 Hijiri I just realized that lua syntax is inconvenient for repeatedly returning and calling functions
20:06 est31 how?
20:06 thonza Irrlicht log: Could not open file of texture: character.png.
20:06 Hijiri If I have a function qwobble that returns a function
20:07 Hijiri I might use it like qwobble(argument)(another_argument)
20:07 Calinou thonza, this is not a bug
20:07 Hijiri but if the length of another_argument is too big, I can't put the second argument on another line
20:07 Hijiri I guess I could break up the parens and do qwobble(argument)( \n another_argument)
20:07 Hijiri not sure if that's valid, I guess I'll try it though
20:08 Calinou it works AFAIK
20:08 thonza i do not know wat it is
20:08 Calinou ignore it
20:08 thonza i can not ignore spinning players
20:09 Calinou I don't know what you mean by spinning players
20:11 thonza player do not move correctly whit axi's
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20:17 Calinou video please
20:17 Calinou :P
20:20 thonza i have no money to paste video ti internet'
20:23 Calinou you don't need money
20:23 Calinou upload to http://imgrush.com/
20:23 Calinou for recording videos on Windows, use https://obsproject.com/
20:23 thonza yes i neen monet. thunderbird tell me
20:34 Calinou
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20:34 thonza https://imgrush.com/TXTCpCIZgx1m
20:37 Calinou try maximizing game window
20:37 Calinou also playing in a virtual machine often causes this
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20:39 thonza where is windows settings?
20:42 Calinou double-click top of window to maximize it
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20:42 Calinou or add fullscreen = 1 to minetest.conf
20:42 sofar alt-enter?
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20:55 Hijiri do all ABMs on the same interval happen simultaneously?
20:59 est31 no
20:59 est31 minetest is more single threaded than you think
21:01 Warr1024 do they happen during the same tick, though?
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21:02 sofar ABMs are very inexact, I've seen ABMs on plants that were planted many many seconds apart all happen at the same time
21:02 sofar so my suspicion is that the engine heavily, criminally collates them
21:03 Hijiri est31: I don't mean simultaneously as in it is literally processed by the computer at the same time
21:03 Hijiri I mean like in the same timestep
21:03 Warr1024 yeah, a single ABM will happen for all blocks in one tick; node timers are able to keep track of independent timers per node, but abm's don't.
21:04 Warr1024 though the interesting question is for 2 different ABM's with the same interval, will they tend to coincide in the same tick, or might they drift apart in timing?
21:04 Hijiri if I want multiple different node types to do some sort of routine synchronized on the same interval, is there some other choice I could use?
21:05 Hijiri I could have some dumb hacky thing like have a coordinator block that processes all the blocks, and you are required to have a coordinator block near you if you want stuff to happen
21:05 Warr1024 Hijiri: you can just have an ABM that adds node coordinates to a table, then a separate timer that processes that queue, to allow you to ensure that the different processes happen in the right order...
21:06 Hijiri I don't want them to be out of step
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21:06 Hijiri what if the timer doesn't wait long enough?
21:06 Hijiri later ones will be queued after the queue is flushed
21:06 Hijiri I'm trying to do something cellular automata -ey
21:06 Warr1024 Hijiri: you can't really guarantee that anyway because it'll only work within the limited Active Range.
21:06 Hijiri I'm fine with it just working within the active range
21:08 thonza hi. player spin and minetest.conf do not allow fullscreen mode
21:08 Warr1024 well, if you want to ensure they get processed as part of one ABM, then just use only one ABM for all of them.
21:08 Hijiri oh, right
21:08 Warr1024 add your CA to a group.
21:08 Hijiri I forgot you could do that
21:08 Warr1024 or list out the individual names
21:08 Warr1024 it's actually harder to efficiently break up an ABM than combine...
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21:20 sofar ugh, ABMs of the same type happen for all nodes at the same time?
21:21 sofar no wonder it looks horrible with slow ABMs
21:21 sofar half my corn field grows all together :(
21:21 sofar I need me some jitter
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22:31 Etzos Has anyone bothered to make an Eclipse execution environment for Minetest?
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22:38 Etzos Er, more specifically for the Lua mod API.
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23:47 sofar Etzos: almost irrelevant, since minetest runs so fast and lua doesn't need compilation
23:50 Etzos sofar: It's for documentation/code-completion not for actual execution.
23:51 sofar I just use vim, but sure, that may be helpful for folks
23:51 sofar can you use some generic lua eclipse integration?
23:53 Etzos sofar: What do you mean? I'm using LDT. But it can't know Minetest's modding API.
23:54 sofar the lua_api.txt is almost all you need. That's what I keep open when I write my mods
23:54 Etzos However, using an EE it can. Is the Lua API documented anywhere as LuaDoc?
23:54 Etzos Yes, yes. But code completion and inline documentation is one of the big reasons for using a bigger IDE.
23:55 sofar no idea. I tend to run away screaming from eclipse unless it was java
23:55 Etzos Normally I would too, but the features provided by LDT are nice enough for me to stick with it.
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