Time Nick Message 00:48 thefamilygrog66 howdy folks 01:10 thefamilygrog66 I made a fountain of rejuvenation - check it out: https://youtu.be/euX1SW5teKA 01:14 sofar would be nice if you could give it a nice model and/or texture 01:15 sofar my son likes it :) 01:24 thefamilygrog66 sofar: I agree, this is more of a proof of concept (and also it matches one of the players on my server's MediEvil cemetary). :) 01:56 luizrpgluiz hi 02:02 ecutruin Anyone have anything they'd like to see created voxel style? Streaming over at http://beam.pro/ecutruin taking requests. 02:02 drake_ Hi all! What is correct way to stop minetest-server from console on Linux? I know about /shutdown command but is any equivalent exist? Also Is usage SIGTERM (-15) signal safe? 02:02 drake_ I tried to googling but I can't see any docs for that. :( 02:08 est31 SIGINT is safe 02:08 est31 SIGTERM isn't 02:09 est31 so press ctrl+c to close the server 02:14 drake_ est31, looks like it works. Many thanks! 03:33 MinetestBot 02[git] 04paramat -> 03minetest/minetest: Mgv6: Add optional snow biomes 1375cbd80 http://git.io/vvkyC (152015-04-12T04:27:26+01:00) 03:50 copypaste I'm making a Bitcoin casino in minetest 03:50 copypaste Is it allowed to put it on the minetest forum 03:51 copypaste screenshot http://a.pomf.se/tuoylm.png 03:52 VanessaE there's no rule against that, that I'm aware of 03:53 copypaste kcool 03:53 VanessaE hope you're interfacing properly and securely with the user's bitcoin wallet 03:53 copypaste yes, that's not handled in minetest 03:53 copypaste there's a web service for that 03:53 VanessaE else don't call it bitcoin if you're not betting with real btc 03:53 copypaste it is real BTC, there's also a play money mode 03:53 copypaste but the point is to use real BTC 03:53 VanessaE interesting indeed 03:53 VanessaE how'd you make the connection to the 'web? 03:53 copypaste web part is node.js :3 03:54 VanessaE I mean from minetest 03:54 copypaste oh, just the lua api they give you 03:54 copypaste and os.execute() 03:54 VanessaE ah 03:54 VanessaE you're screwed then :P 03:54 copypaste :DDDD 03:54 VanessaE os.execute() is slated to die soon. 03:54 copypaste why do you say that? 03:54 copypaste in minetest or in lua? 03:54 VanessaE in minetest. 03:54 copypaste why? 03:54 VanessaE security reasons, if ShadowNinja's patch goes in 03:54 copypaste if you disable it please make it optional for compiling servers 03:55 copypaste that's stupid 03:55 copypaste well, thanks for letting me know whose patch it is so i can undo it 03:55 copypaste :3 03:55 VanessaE I think it'll be optional but opt-out. 03:55 VanessaE security enabled by default when it does go in 03:55 copypaste well yeah, it makes sense 03:55 copypaste you don't want noobs installing random dangerous mods 03:56 copypaste that they didn't write 03:56 VanessaE preciselty. 03:56 VanessaE now, 03:56 VanessaE the RIGHT way here would be to find a way to interface to the web without node.js 03:56 VanessaE maybe you can exploit luasocket? 03:56 VanessaE irc mod uses that 03:56 est31 luasocket needs security exemtion too doesnt it? 03:56 VanessaE and it can pass through the security code, I THINK. 03:56 VanessaE est31: does it? I thought IRC mod had some patch waiting for that 03:56 copypaste it's possible. one other thing though...I am also using an external script for doing the games haha 03:57 VanessaE copypaste: don't run ANY code outside of Minetest that you don't absolutely have to. 03:57 VanessaE roulette logic should be pretty easy in Lua 03:57 copypaste I don't see why you think it's so insecure? 03:58 copypaste It's not roulette logic that's the issue, it's generation of cryptographically secure numbers. 03:58 VanessaE os.execute() could be used to do damage to the user's filesystem outside of Minetest. 03:58 copypaste "The user = the server"? 03:58 VanessaE est31: I think you can address the crypto-secure part, no? 03:58 est31 copypaste is right, cryptographically secure numbers can't be crated in lua 03:58 VanessaE the user = the server OR the singleplayer user. 03:58 copypaste ok well in that case i trust the programs i wrote outside of lua 03:58 copypaste so i have no problem executing them 03:59 est31 even if you implement a secure PRNG, it may have timing problems due to lua optimisations 03:59 est31 (at least what I think) 03:59 copypaste yeah, I read about it and came to that conclusion 03:59 copypaste So decided not to use lua for secure PRNG 03:59 copypaste this is a real money casino, it needs to be secure 03:59 VanessaE est31: can't include some crypto-appropriate RNG in minetest maybe? 04:00 est31 lol. hmmmm has said that some noise function is crypto-strong 04:00 est31 perhaps it can be accessed from lua too 04:00 * est31 isnt sure 04:01 hmmmm it can 04:05 hmmmm PcgRandom() 04:54 MinetestBot 02[git] 04paramat -> 03minetest/minetest: Mgv6: Fix taiga, allow pine tree spawning on snowblocks 13a5f942c http://git.io/vvkpQ (152015-04-12T05:52:41+01:00) 05:33 est31 any windows users online? 07:54 Krock moin 07:56 xenkey http://git.io/vvkpQ 07:56 xenkey src/mapgen_v6.cpp 947 07:56 xenkey / Trees grow only on mud and grass and snowblock 07:56 xenkey That ain't English 07:56 xenkey mud, grass AND snowblock 07:57 sofar no oxford comma? 07:57 sofar if you're going to be picky :) 07:58 xenkey Indeed 07:58 sofar Trees grow only on mud, grass, and snowblock! 07:58 xenkey oooh n 07:58 xenkey o 07:58 xenkey "we don't have trees" is an inaccurate but much more satisfying solution 08:03 copypaste is there a good way to limit the size of the world? 08:03 copypaste i don't want anyone except me building on my server, but i also don't want people wandering off and making the world file huge for no reason 08:04 Krock !mod edge 08:04 MinetestBot Krock: worldedge by Don - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=10753 08:04 Krock copypaste ^ 08:04 copypaste ty. had no clue what to search for 09:04 Krock est31, lovely. You corrected a typo with a new typo 09:06 est31 yea :/ 09:06 est31 whatever its a PR 09:07 Krock libgmb has an interesting coding style :D 09:08 est31 typo! 09:08 est31 libgmp* 09:08 est31 :p 09:08 Krock omg noes. a type. 09:08 Krock again onee 09:49 Krock copypaste, is the server online yet? 10:02 CWz V6 has snowbiomes now? 10:03 est31 yes 10:04 est31 including taiga and tundra 10:04 CWz are they enabled by default? 10:04 est31 I'm not sure 10:12 Matsetes Hi! My games went crazy 10:13 Matsetes Initially I found all grey, after that it tells me something about EnvArgsEnd 10:22 Matsetes Nope, I solved 10:48 lionrouge hi ! 10:48 lionrouge do minetest mods/subgames support localization? 11:11 Krock lionrouge, yes if you translate them manually, using intllib 11:12 Krock !mod intllib 11:12 MinetestBot Krock: Internationalization Library [intllib] by kaeza - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=4929 11:12 Krock ^ lionrouge 11:56 lionrouge Krock, thank you 11:56 Krock np 12:00 Augier Sry for the noise 12:00 Augier As I was saying 12:00 Augier I have a question about Debian package of minetest. Wiki say there's a sysvinit script for Debian but there's no on my server. 12:00 Calinou did you install the package, or did you compile it yourself? 12:00 Calinou by the way, Debian package of Minetest is outdated 12:01 Augier That's it... 12:01 Augier No, I didnn't compiel 12:01 Augier compile 12:04 Augier Calinou: Ok, let's compile then 12:05 Calinou https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=3837 12:05 Calinou use this script, if you don't know how 12:05 Augier I know how, but I take it :p 12:06 Augier I'm a lazy man 12:06 Augier There's no one to maintain the Debian package anymore ? 12:06 Calinou https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=minetest 12:07 Calinou we have 0.4.12 in sid, 0.4.10 in jessie, 0.3.1 in wheezy 12:08 Augier Meh 12:09 Augier I usually use Mageia, which has 0.4.8 if I'm right 12:09 Augier But I didn't have the choice on my VPS 12:12 Augier Calinou: Minetest is pure CPP or do you use external libs like Qt ? 12:14 Krock something like sqlite3? 12:14 Krock or jthread? 12:16 Augier No, I meant helper libraries for data structure and algorithms like Boost or Qt (even if Qt is much ore than just a data structures library) 12:16 turtleman_ wow, the v7 caves are so much better than the v6 caves 12:16 turtleman_ i just tried it for the first time 12:17 sfan5 ew boost 12:17 sfan5 Augier: no, minetest doesn't use something like that 12:18 Augier (Never tried boost, I only use Qt) 12:18 Augier Seems like the script only installs the client, right ? 12:18 Calinou we won't ever use Boost and Qt 12:18 Calinou the Code style guidelines say so :) 12:18 Calinou adding new dependencies is considered serious business 12:19 Calinou Augier, this script is made for client 12:19 Calinou for server you'd have to adapt it 12:19 Calinou add -DBUILD_CLIENT=0 -DBUILD_SERVER=1 to CMake options 12:19 Augier Ok, let's hack then 12:19 sfan5 Augier: if you want to build a server all you need is libsqlite3 and the irrlicht headers (yes, only the headers) 12:19 sfan5 having libleveldb too might be a good idea tho 12:25 Augier Ew, there's still a problem with the french keybords 12:51 Augier You should setup a repo with all the official ods ;) 12:52 Krock ods? 12:52 Augier s/ods/mods 12:52 Augier Sry 12:53 Krock all mods are official 12:54 Augier Well you should open a repo to get them all ;) 12:54 Krock My repo is the MySQL database of the mod search engine 13:08 Calinou some mods are incompatible with each other 13:08 Calinou either way, you never want to run all mods 13:08 Calinou because 80 % of mods are bad-quality, or have bad textures 13:10 xenkey ^^^ 13:16 Augier Even the ones on the wiki ? 13:16 Augier Cause I've just installed them all :p 13:16 xenkey gl 13:19 Krock Augier, please install google as a mod. 13:21 Augier Krock: If you don't want to speak, I guess IRC is not the best place to be. 13:21 Augier Anyway I've got everything I need 13:21 Augier Server is up and working, thanks fot the help 13:42 Calinou choose your mods right, don't choose mods without testing them 13:50 Krock oh really? :3 13:51 kahrl_ this is great: http://www.reddit.com/r/minecraftsuggestions/comments/32bqn4/19_update/ 14:06 Krock > minecraft 14:07 Krock > 12x 'minecraft' 14:07 sfan5 !seen minecraft 14:07 MinetestBot sfan5: Sorry, I haven't seen minecraft around. 14:08 Krock oh good. 14:16 ecutruin Taking voxel art requests if anyone is interested. 14:16 ecutruin kahrl_, that's funny. Does he not know that shaders already exist in MC? 14:20 Krock Supermario! 15:49 est31 any spanish speakers in here? 15:49 est31 I want you to confirm whether the translation is ok: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2563/files 16:10 Krock est31, google's translator gives an acceptable translation.. so it seems to be good 16:43 Matsetes Hi! I have a question about mesecon, does someone can help me? 16:44 sfan5 just ask your question 16:44 Krock Not if there's no question 16:44 Matsetes I use a node detector to activate a row of 5 node breaker 16:44 Matsetes But it only activates the first three, why? 16:45 Krock use mesecons to connect them all 16:45 Matsetes But the signal stops after the third 16:45 Krock Is there a screenshot of your setup? 16:46 Matsetes No, but it's simple: I have to break a tree hight 5 blocks 16:47 Matsetes In the base there is a node detector that activates when it's grown 16:52 Krock Sorry, I got no idea what's wrong with your mechanism but if a nodebreaker gets no signal, it won't be active. 16:52 sfan5 Matsetes: it would help if you could make a screenshot 16:53 Matsetes I'll return with the screen 16:58 VanessaE with Matsetes, s/block/node/ 16:58 VanessaE he's fighting some bug in his copy of mesecons that's keeping it from feeding a signal through to all of the devices on the line. 16:59 Matsetes My version of mesecon is downloaded the 25 february 17:00 Matsetes Is it still good? 17:00 VanessaE old. 17:00 VanessaE I told you twice to update it. 17:00 Matsetes http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo281/Matsetes/screenshot_6365909.png 17:00 Matsetes The screen 17:00 Matsetes But february is only two months ago 17:00 VanessaE what are those silver blocks? 17:01 Matsetes The forum post does not tells the last update 17:01 VanessaE they look like quarries 17:01 Matsetes Node detector 17:01 Matsetes It's the back 17:01 VanessaE how about a screenshot showing the circuitry please 17:02 Matsetes Ok 17:05 Matsetes http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo281/Matsetes/screenshot_6699924.png 17:06 VanessaE *shrug* there's nothing obvious about that arrangement that shouldn't work unless your copy of mesecons is busted. 17:08 Matsetes Busted? 17:08 Matsetes I don't know what it mean 17:08 Krock corrupted, outdated, destroyed. 17:08 VanessaE broken, bugged, not working as intended 17:09 Matsetes Ok, I try with a newer version 17:09 VanessaE pull from mesecons git 17:09 MinetestBot 02[git] 04ngosang -> 03minetest/minetest: Add Spanish comment translation to minetest.desktop 138c688bf http://git.io/vvtAU (152015-04-12T19:08:23+02:00) 17:09 VanessaE and if it still doesn't work, file a bug report against mesecons github repository 17:10 VanessaE if possible, provide a worldedit schematic/savefile of the area 17:11 Matsetes I don't know how to do it 17:12 VanessaE https://github.com/Jeija/minetest-mod-mesecons/ 17:12 VanessaE "DOwnload Zip" 17:12 VanessaE unzip it 17:12 VanessaE replace your copy of mesecons with the result 17:12 VanessaE if it works, great. 17:12 VanessaE if not, go here: https://github.com/Jeija/minetest-mod-mesecons/issues/new 17:12 VanessaE describe the problem 17:13 VanessaE attach screenshots 17:14 Krock also attach the debug log and the minetest binary and the mod version you used. 17:15 Matsetes Nope 17:15 Matsetes It does not work 17:16 Krock Same problem as before? 17:16 Matsetes Yeah 17:16 VanessaE go file a bug report then 17:16 Matsetes It activates only the first three 17:16 Matsetes I think its a problem of node detector 17:16 VanessaE I told you it is NOT 17:17 VanessaE if any of the breakers activate, then they all will, assuming your wiring is correct 17:17 Krock Matsetes, alwas the underst nodebreaker? 17:17 Krock *always 17:18 Matsetes Yes 17:18 Matsetes And it reamains the top of the tree, so the new one cannot grow 17:18 Krock Check if the mesecons get grighter when the nodebreaker gets activated 17:18 Krock *brighter 17:19 Matsetes I tried with a lever 17:19 Matsetes Only the first three 17:21 Matsetes http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo281/Matsetes/screenshot_7807156.png 17:21 Matsetes Look, there is a lever on the first node 17:21 Matsetes The top are off 17:25 Krock interesting bug 18:50 Matsetes I solved 18:54 VanessaE how? 19:56 Matsetes Oh, VanessaE 19:56 Matsetes I put some vertical mesecons behind the normal ones so they repeat the signal 20:05 Pilcrow !rainbow hello 20:05 MinetestBot 4h7e8l3l12o 20:09 exio4 Calinou: what is your opinion on callbacks 20:09 exio4 done the minetest way(tm) 20:09 Pilcrow Calinou: I saw you about a week ago on irc asking for a mod to limit lava placing above sea level? 20:10 Krock ^ can be done by overwriting default:lava_souce 20:10 Krock *source 20:10 Krock ^ also by overwriting the buckets 20:14 exio4 Java beating C++ lmao 20:16 Pilcrow Krock: I know. I threw one together to override buckets, in case Calinou had not found one yet. I used the old pairs way, rather than minetest.override_item(), so that old servers would work with it as well... 20:16 Pilcrow https://github.com/Pilcrow182/lava_limit 20:17 Calinou cool 20:18 exio4 http://www.cs.ucla.edu/~todd/research/snapl15.pdf <= :O 20:18 exio4 that's why a lazy language rocks! 20:19 Pilcrow Calinou: it doesn't override default:lava_source though; just the buckets. I figure if anyone has give permissions or such and can get their hands on default:lava_source, it shouldn't limit them. let me know if you want that to be changed too. 20:21 Calinou nah it's fine 20:23 exio4 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_transactional_memory <- dat concurrency 20:24 Pilcrow lol, Krock has quit because "Lava's gone" :P 20:53 Pilcrow exio4: the shifting semicolon thing is an interesting read even for me; I don't know any java and barely any c/c++.... :P 20:54 exio4 there are languages out there where there is no 'sequencial ordering' outside a small imperative DSL 20:54 * exio4 looks at Haskell 20:54 * Xack looks at exio4 20:54 exio4 a programming language where the order in which things are evaluated is not defined! 20:55 exio4 the report only says it must be non strict 20:56 Pilcrow heh. you and your haskell. I still haven't checked it out much... :P 21:00 exio4 sorry, it's just that Haskell is amazing and I have to say it loud 21:01 alket lol 21:01 exio4 if you didn't hear it: IT IS AMAZING! 21:02 Pilcrow lol no need for an apology; it's obviously something you like, and that's cool. :) 23:05 Pilcrow lol Rick-Rolled. what an awesome name. 23:05 Rick-Rolled Hey guys. I've installed mesecons or home_decor mod (don't know which) and now it's completely messed up my signs. What can I do about it? 23:06 Rick-Rolled Thanks Pilcrow 23:08 Rick-Rolled Is there another signs mod I can install? 23:08 TheGame Rick-Rolled: homedecor comes with signs_lib, which makes signs much better but sort of breaks the older ones. unfortunately, I don't know how to fix them. 23:08 VanessaE use the screwdriver. 23:08 VanessaE at the time the mod was written, there wasn't a way to keep them from getting rotated wrong. 23:08 Rick-Rolled I can't write to them. 23:09 Pilcrow ^ VanessaE is the one who released homedecor. she probably knows more than anyone about it. ;) 23:09 VanessaE I will fix this soon-ish, but until then, either remove the signs_lib component, or use the screwdriver 23:09 Rick-Rolled OK. Thanks and I love home-decor. 23:11 Pilcrow oh, VanessaE, can signs_lib be used without the rest of homedecor? I do like the whole thing, but I'm trying to keep my game lightweight and largely avoid purely 'decorational' stuff. the signs have actual functionality improvements, since you don't have to point at them to see what they say... :) 23:11 VanessaE Pilcrow: yes, it can. 23:11 VanessaE I use it on my vanilla server, for example 23:12 Pilcrow I've never logged into your vanilla server, so I wouldn't know. but thank you for the info! :) 23:14 Devil_Lady Hey guys, I was just in here as rick-rolled. Have one more question. I am using singleplayer in creative mode. I plan to launch the server later from my PC. Can I keep the singleplayer user account (to modify the world again in creative mode)? 23:14 VanessaE you can but it's not recommended. 23:14 VanessaE "singleplayer" has no password. 23:15 Devil_Lady Is there a way to allow another player to have creative mode? 23:15 Devil_Lady Preferably while the server is still running. 23:16 VanessaE run the server in Creative mode. 23:16 VanessaE or run it in survival mode, have some mod that recognizes the "creative priv such as Unified Inventory, and grant it as needed 23:16 Devil_Lady Will the other players be able to do that too? 23:16 VanessaE the server decides whether players are in creative or survival mode, not the players. 23:17 Devil_Lady OK thanks 23:17 VanessaE so, 23:17 VanessaE don't expect players to be able to do /gamemode 1 or whatever. :P 23:17 Devil_Lady yeah 23:24 * Pilcrow wonders how hard it would actually be to implement a minecraft-like gamemode command in minetest... :P 23:24 xenkey Not hard at all 23:24 xenkey Done it 23:24 Pilcrow heh 23:25 xenkey But closed source cuz im a greedy bitch 23:25 Pilcrow lol ok 23:25 xenkey I accidentally in my trash 23:25 Pilcrow yeah, I don't really want it anyway and probably won't make it, but it was just some idle curiosity... :P 23:26 SylvieLorxu xenkey: Do you have a moment to discuss software freedom? 23:26 SylvieLorxu You see, when Richard Matthew Stallman started the Church of Emacs, he had a very clear goal in front of his eyes 23:26 xenkey SylvieLorxu: t'was a joke, i'll give it to anyone who asks 23:26 SylvieLorxu That goal, was software freedom for every computer user 23:26 SylvieLorxu :P 23:26 xenkey Oh god 23:26 xenkey Yeah :P 23:27 SylvieLorxu It's 1:30AM, lemme be silley :P 23:27 xenkey I have the freedom to not disclose code :0 23:27 SylvieLorxu Only if the software is original or you are modifying it from one that doesn't respect the copyleft believes :P 23:28 xenkey Oh fuck 23:28 SylvieLorxu Well, or if you're not sharing the binary version either 23:28 xenkey S/fuck/noes/ 23:28 SylvieLorxu God I'm so bored 23:28 Pilcrow wtfpl would let you keep changes to yourself though... ;) 23:28 SylvieLorxu I just had Atom ruin a pull request 23:28 xenkey How about we write mods in assembly 23:28 xenkey Iktf :) 23:28 SylvieLorxu >Add function 23:28 SylvieLorxu >Use tabs to spaces 23:28 SylvieLorxu >Commit and push 23:29 xenkey Woops 23:29 SylvieLorxu I missed the part where Atom undid the adding of the function to do tabs to spaces (and missed a few tabs in the process...) 23:29 xenkey Spaces ftw 23:29 SylvieLorxu Atom is such a buggy piece of junk :/ 23:29 xenkey Why not use sed 23:29 xenkey Or ed 23:29 xenkey Ed is actually nice 23:29 SylvieLorxu Because that's too mainstream 23:30 SylvieLorxu "Standard" editor, pff 23:30 SylvieLorxu I'm above standards 23:30 * Pilcrow uses tabs. so much easier to read, unless you use ungodly amounts of spaces... :P 23:30 xenkey Too main STREAM 23:30 xenkey sorry. 23:30 xenkey I use 16 23:30 xenkey Get my joke 23:30 xenkey Sed is too mainSTREAM 23:31 SylvieLorxu Because stream editor 23:31 xenkey Stand up comedy here 23:31 SylvieLorxu Yeah yeah, very funny 23:31 xenkey Ysleag 23:31 xenkey Hahaha 23:31 xenkey I'm so bored 23:31 SylvieLorxu http://cube-drone.com/2013_05_13-Cube_Drone_27_No_Programmers.html 23:31 * Pilcrow is watching a movie and didn't catch the joke 23:32 xenkey ^ 23:32 xenkey Oh i made the joke 23:32 xenkey Oh lol 23:41 exio4 Pilcrow: tabs are flawed by one thing 23:42 Pilcrow what's that? 23:43 exio4 tell me how you would organize this with tabs 23:43 exio4 zetyr = a; 23:43 exio4 dog = b; 23:43 exio4 whatever = c; 23:44 exio4 hint: you can't, therefore you have to use spaces, and you are now mixing them 23:44 exio4 unless you have some kind of dynamic spaced tab that goes "until some keyword/operator" 23:45 Pilcrow generally, tabs scale in size, so you could line things up as they are above... at least, that's how they work in my editor of choice, kwrite... 23:46 exio4 "scale in size"? what do you mean? 23:46 exio4 I mean, for being useful in a context like this 23:47 exio4 you can't make sure alignment with tabs looks equally "good" in more than one context / tab size, which basically makes any point for using tabs bullshit 23:47 exio4 the only reason to use tabs is invalid 23:49 Pilcrow using 1 tab for 'whatever' and 2 tabs for the others in your example results in perfect alignment in most editors. the ones that don't dynamically change the size of their tabs do it wrong, since that is what tabs are for. 23:49 exio4 Pilcrow: does it? 23:49 exio4 Pilcrow: now let's assume tab size = 2 locally 23:50 exio4 that'd mean the "dog" line doesn't have enough spaces 23:51 Pilcrow yes. which only means that converting tabs into a static number of spaces is wrong. not that using tabs themselves is wrong. 23:52 exio4 Pilcrow: ? 23:52 exio4 Pilcrow: I didn't say static number 23:52 Pilcrow then I'm not understanding you 23:53 exio4 dog\t\t=X;whatever\t=Y; will have the wrong "alignment" when using tabs of really small size 23:53 Pilcrow ah 23:53 exio4 which isn't cool 23:54 exio4 really small because I don't know if tabsize=3 is already small enough to "fuck it up" 23:55 exio4 you basically have to _assume_ some tab size 23:55 Pilcrow yes, I guess it does depend on editors and settings. but then so do spaces; if someone uses a non-monospace font, will the spaces method line up? probably not... 23:55 exio4 tabs will fuck up there, it's a common problem 23:55 exio4 it's basically going for the less worst solution 23:56 exio4 using tabs seems pretty much like "we're already fucked up in some cases, let's make this even worse because why not" 23:57 exio4 (but nobody sanes uses non monospaced fonts for programming, compared to "small" 'tab sizes' like 2 or 4= 23:57 exio4 ) 23:58 exio4 s/sanes/sane/ 23:58 Pilcrow but in most cases you *can* assume a certain size for tabs; even though it hasn't been standardized, almost all editors have a default tab size equivalent to 5 or more spaces (and there's not really a reason to change that default, as smaller tabs make code harder to read) 23:59 exio4 "small tabs make code hader to read" is subjective 23:59 exio4 that is why they are configurable!