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IRC log for #minetest, 2015-04-11

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Time Nick Message
00:15 arsdragonfly joined #minetest
00:37 Viper168 joined #minetest
00:46 meldrian joined #minetest
00:53 est31 man, kate's block mode is really handy for the ascii art in clientiface.h
00:58 Megaf joined #minetest
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01:28 spideyjaden joined #minetest
01:30 spideyjaden I HATE POPULARITY,
01:40 Chanku I need help
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02:37 Pilcrow joined #minetest
02:40 Pilcrow grrr. if I want to install the latest git, I need to compile emacs, libgnome-keyring, xmlto, AND asciidoc... this is a headache...
02:49 Karlton Pilcrow: emacs is a dependency for what?
02:51 Pilcrow it's a build dependancy for git, Karlton.
02:51 Karlton pretty sure it's optional
02:52 Karlton so is libgnome-keyring and asciidoc
02:53 Pilcrow Karlton: I suppose I could try it without them, but they're listed as makedepends in the Arch PKGBUILD script, straight from the main site. https://projects.archlinux.org/svntogit​/packages.git/tree/trunk?h=packages/git
02:53 * Chanku sighs a bit
02:54 Chanku Alright I need help getting a mod detected with Minetset
02:54 Chanku *test
02:57 Karlton Pilcrow: Arch always builds support for everything, but you can edit the pkgbuild so that it does not include them
02:57 behalebabo left #minetest
02:59 Pilcrow Karlton: alright, I'll try building without them.
03:01 Pilcrow Chanku: sorry if it seems like we're ignoring you. what's up?
03:03 * Pilcrow is now compiling git
03:04 Pilcrow my old git was very outdated (1.7.7.4)... it didn't want to work with github.
03:08 exio4 hai
03:08 Chanku Well I have a mod and minetest isn't detecting
03:11 arsdragonfly joined #minetest
03:13 Karlton Chanku: is it in the mod folder? like ~/.minetest/mods/<mod_name>/
03:13 Pilcrow Chanku: where exactly did you put the mod? it should go in minetest -> mods
03:14 Chanku it is in ~/minetest/mods/<mod_name>
03:14 Chanku ~/.minetest
03:15 Chanku doesn't contain a mods folder
03:17 Pilcrow Chanku: is this a global install, or is everything in ~/minetest ?  (i.e. bin, builtin, cache, etc.)
03:17 sofar Pilcrow: https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=9&amp;t=11795 - corn implemented - let me know what you think!
03:18 Chanku everything seems to be in ~/minetest
03:18 Chanku except for the worlds folder.
03:19 Chanku it's in ~/.minetest
03:20 Zeno` joined #minetest
03:20 Pilcrow Chanku: ok. first, check to make sure the new mod's folder has the right name (some of them have a -master at the end of their name that must be removed). next, check to see if your new mod's folder actually has an init.lua in it. finally, check your ~/minetest/bin/debug.txt for a line similar to this ---  ERROR[main]: mod "modname" has unsatisfied dependencies:  "something"
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03:21 Chanku well it's a mod I'm working on
03:21 Pilcrow oh.
03:21 Chanku there is also no /minetest/bin/debug.txt
03:23 Zeno` Chanku, have you checked ~/.minetest/
03:24 Chanku Yes
03:25 Chanku and there is no error
03:25 * Pilcrow has never used an install that wasn't built with -DRUN_IN_PLACE=1...
03:25 * Zeno` has never used and install where -DRUN_IN_PLACE=1
03:25 Pilcrow lol
03:26 est31 I build in place and I run in place
03:26 Zeno` I do out-of-source builds and run wherever I please
03:26 Zeno` :)
03:26 sofar <insert badass meme here>
03:26 Pilcrow Chanku: if it's a new mod you're working on, may we see your code? maybe there's something wrong with it we can find...  :)
03:27 Chanku Well I mean it's just basic code
03:27 Zeno` mkdir minetest_tempbuild; cd minetest_tempbuild; cmake ../minetest/; make -j8; ~/minetest/bin/minetest; cd ..; rm -rf minetest_tempbuild
03:28 Pilcrow btw sofar, thanks for pointing out the Crops update to me; corn looks amazing and I will probably be testing it very soon
03:28 sofar Pilcrow: looking for ideas, now, again, please suggest
03:29 Pilcrow Zeno`: ln -s ./ loop  ?   :P
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03:32 Pilcrow Chanku: does your mod it cause a crash, or just not do anything?
03:32 Chanku it's just not detected
03:32 Pilcrow s/it//
03:33 Chanku ?
03:33 Pilcrow never mind, lol
03:33 everamzah he was just removing the it
03:33 everamzah did you enable it? :)
03:33 Chanku I can't enable it
03:33 Chanku It's not even showing that it exists
03:34 Zeno` Pilcrow, I use ln -s for my mods :3   E.g. cd ~/.minetest/worlds/ram-test/worldmods; ln -s ~/mtmods/mytestmod; ~/minetest/bin/minetest; /* test mode */; unlink mytestmod
03:34 Pilcrow Chanku: perhaps you should make a "mods" folder in ~/.minetest, and put your mod in there? I'm not sure where your minetest install expects it to be, since it's different than mine.
03:34 Chanku Although if anyone wants to check my code to see if it is the code itself...
03:34 Zeno` err, got ln syntax wrong but you know what I mean
03:35 Chanku well that worked
03:35 Pilcrow Zeno`: I often use ln -s to test how mods will work if included in a subgame.
03:36 Zeno` Pilcrow, I use it for everthing lol
03:36 Chanku Apparently that worked....
03:36 Zeno` Just like I use world/worldname/worldmods for everything
03:37 Zeno` so I don't have to faff about with enabling/disabling
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03:37 Pilcrow Zeno`: I also use it for my linux scripts; since I only ever have one user account (plus root), I usually store my custom scripts in my home, and ln -s them to /usr/bin
03:38 Pilcrow Chanku: making a mods folder in ~/.minetest worked? sweet!  :)
03:41 Chanku Yeah
03:41 Pilcrow ah, Karlton, apparently asciidoc *is* needed for building git; it exited the build with a failure. still, I'm thinking asciidoc probably won't bee too dependancy-heavy. I just hope emacs is not needed...  :P
03:42 Pilcrow haha, in fact, asciidoc took all of 2 seconds to build...  :)
03:42 Chanku emacs isn't needed
03:43 Chanku at least with Debian
03:44 Pilcrow Chanku: I only mention it because it was listed as a makedep in the official Arch Linux PKGBUILD...
03:45 Pilcrow (I'm sort of running Arch. not exactly, but close enough)
03:46 * Chanku rewrites a bunch of code
03:46 * Pilcrow goes to make food while waiting for git to build
03:48 Zeno` it defaults to vi
03:50 est31 Pilcrow, do you really have this few free hdd space that you cannot set up a new OS from 2015?
03:51 est31 shrink here shrink there, and you have a new / partition
03:58 Karlton Pilcrow: How did you edit the pkgbuild, did you remove the install-doc part?
03:58 arsdragonfly1 joined #minetest
03:59 Karlton this is why people use gentoo if they are going to build from source :)
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04:07 Pilcrow Karlton: nope, I forgot to. but no matter, asciidoc is installed fine now. and est31, I have appx. 5 gigs left on this HDD, and it's only an 80 gig drive to begin with. and more than half of it is taken up by a windows partition that refuses to shrink, anyways. so yeah, I really don't have the space...  :\
04:08 Zeno` refuses to shrink?
04:08 Zeno` is it a fat32 partition?
04:08 Zeno` ntfs shrinks just fine (although maybe you have to do it from in Windows)
04:10 Pilcrow Zeno`: it's ntfs, but I haven't tried shrinking it from windows. I just know that gparted, kde partition manager, and various cli fdisk programs all refused to do it, when last I tried.
04:10 Zeno` maybe. But you can definitely do it from in Windows
04:12 Pilcrow ah. if that's the case, I probably do have like 10 gigs I can spare...  :)
04:13 Zeno` If you lived in AU I'd give you one of my spare 1TB drives
04:13 Zeno` I seem to have accumulated quite a few of them lol
04:13 Karlton that sounds strange if you can't shrink ntfs with windows on it. Did you make sure it was unmounted?
04:13 Zeno` 8 of them to be precise. And 10 500gb drives
04:14 Pilcrow heh. I just need a job, then I'll buy my own. I've got like 3 computers in desperate need of a full wipe and reinstall...
04:15 Zeno` true
04:15 Karlton then again the last windows version I worked with was xp...
04:16 Zeno` I shrank a windows partition (from in Windows) only a few weeks ago
04:16 Zeno` so I know it works from within windows
04:17 Pilcrow Karlton: yeah, I made sure it was unmounted. can't remember the error any more, as it was a while ago, but I've done countless partition editing on other computers, and win7 partitions seem to have problems shrinking sometimes. Mostly I was just too lazy/busy to try other methods.
04:17 Zeno` sheesh I have a whole partition here formatted as linux as not used :/
04:17 Zeno` wonder wtf that is
04:18 Pilcrow lol zeno. try mounting it?
04:19 Zeno` well duh
04:19 Zeno` good plan!
04:19 Zeno` lol
04:19 Zeno` it looks like arch
04:19 Zeno` not quite sure
04:19 * Pilcrow is Captain Obvious
04:19 Zeno` yeah it's an arch partition
04:19 Zeno` weird
04:20 Zeno` I don't remember installing that haha
04:20 Hijiri I just ordered two 4 TB drives
04:20 Hijiri to store anime and other media
04:20 Consortium joined #minetest
04:20 Consortium Hi
04:20 Hijiri hi
04:20 Pilcrow wow. I've never had a hdd bigger than 1tb
04:20 Hijiri me neither
04:20 Pilcrow hi Consortium
04:21 Zeno` you have 8TB of hentai?
04:21 Hijiri no
04:21 Pilcrow Hijiri: what company are those 4 TB drives made by?
04:21 sofar 6tb raid array here, mostly filled with ATSC HDTV recordings
04:21 Pilcrow Zeno`: I know someone irl who actually does...  >__>
04:22 Hijiri one is seagate, one was toshiba or WD? but they are NAS drives and one data company said they have good failure rates
04:22 Zeno` I have 2x2TB western digital black
04:22 Hijiri I'm planning on doing RAID, so it will be 4TB storage
04:23 Hijiri and I would never get 8TB of hentai because animated stuff is usually terrible
04:23 Zeno` nice
04:23 Zeno` http://dpaste.com/2JSWBWT
04:23 Pilcrow I hear seagate has gone way downhill in recent years...
04:24 Hijiri this specific drive is apparently good, but admittedly it's just the experience of one company
04:24 Hijiri and I'm not going to be using it as intensively as a data center
04:24 Zeno` it depends on the *type* of seagate
04:25 * Zeno` notices that both of his SSD are ntfs
04:25 Zeno` oh well
04:25 Hijiri I think it was this one
04:25 Hijiri http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00D1GYO4S/ref=tw​ister_B00Q66QBL4?_encoding=UTF8&amp;psc=1
04:25 Hijiri the seagate one
04:25 Zeno` good price
04:26 Pilcrow ^ very
04:28 * Pilcrow usually goes with WD if he can, or else hitachi or toshiba usually
04:28 Zeno` http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital-WD40​00FYYZ-7200RPM-Enterprise/dp/B00DMLW2IM/re​f=sr_1_7?s=pc&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;qid=14287264​52&amp;sr=1-7&amp;keywords=Western+Digital
04:28 Zeno` get 5 of those for raid
04:29 Hijiri that would be almost half of the ones in stock
04:29 Zeno` better hurry then :D
04:29 Pilcrow 5 of them? for that price, I'd rather build a gaming rig!  :P
04:32 Pilcrow and yeah, seagate still makes good drives, but I view them in a similar light to Dell: good stuff when it works, but a higher chance of getting a 'dud' compared to other makers
04:33 Zeno` you can build a gaming rig as well
04:33 Zeno` with 5 of them
04:34 Zeno` gaming rig for minetest... get 40fps!
04:35 Zeno` actually I get 60fps easily in most locations now
04:35 Pilcrow jeeze, Zeno`! A gaming rig WITH 5 of those? That would be more than I ever paid for a CAR!  xD
04:35 Zeno` xD
04:36 Pilcrow ($1700 USD was my biggest car purchase, fyi)  :P
04:38 Pilcrow sweet! finally got my git installed!
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04:58 Zeno` yay
04:58 Zeno` you have git git
05:00 Pilcrow Zeno`: were you interested in checking out my hoverbot even though it's currently buggy? I managed to push it to github...  :)
05:00 Zeno` I'll bookmark the URL and try later if you give it to me :)
05:01 Pilcrow https://github.com/Pilcrow182/hoverbot
05:03 Pilcrow I don't mind if others try it too, but I don't want to put it on the forum 'til I've worked out all the *known* errors...  :P
05:03 Pilcrow (there's only one that I know of right now. see the readme)
05:04 Zeno` nice
05:06 Zeno` how long have you been working on this?
05:06 Zeno` it's very cool
05:08 Zeno` and you've written readable Lua
05:09 Consortium Minetest is programmed in Lua?
05:10 Consortium What about Python and Ruby?
05:10 Zeno` mods are
05:10 Pilcrow Zeno`: it's been in the works for months. I've spent a few years trying to get "good" at minetest modding, but never actually released anything yet...  :P
05:10 Zeno` there is (currently) only bindings for Lua
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05:11 Zeno` gosh
05:11 Zeno` I really like it :)
05:11 est31 that was weird
05:12 est31 I've set up make -j 128
05:12 est31 and expected some hickups and such
05:12 Pilcrow I think this mod could use a bit of reorganising, as half of it is in init.lua and the other half is in exec.lua. but at least it works...  :)
05:12 est31 but that 1. minetest, and 2. kde would crash, and my system freeze...
05:13 Pilcrow est31: uhh... -j sets threads, right?  O_o
05:13 est31 yes
05:13 est31 I have 320 processes running on my box right now
05:13 est31 have expected more from the kernel
05:14 Pilcrow so then, you're trying to compile with 128 threads? I'd think that would cause some issues...
05:14 Zeno` I think make does scale/adjust based on load though...
05:15 Zeno` well... I dunno... does --load-average have a default?
05:15 Zeno` I guess it must
05:16 Pilcrow that would make sense
05:16 Zeno` hmm, nah that's minimum load
05:16 Zeno` err no
05:16 Zeno` I was right the first time lol
05:17 Zeno` yeah that would be limiting things
05:17 Zeno` e.g. from the man page:   If the -j option is given without an argument, make will not limit the number  of
05:17 Zeno` jobs that can run simultaneously.
05:18 Zeno` so make -j will use as many threads as it can until --load-average is met
05:20 Pilcrow Zeno`: my main problem with my hoverbot is that, since it can mimic a player in so many ways and has its own player table, I think I may have to define all the function names that are in http://dev.minetest.net/player and http://dev.minetest.net/ObjectRef ... as it is, it crashes if it tries to run an undefined function (such as, for example, player:set_breath() or player:hud_get_flags())
05:21 Zeno` yeah I saw that
05:22 Pilcrow I don't know if there's a better way to make it return nicely, versus defining every undefined function to make them each return...
05:24 Zeno` http://git.savannah.gnu.org/c​git/make.git/tree/job.c#n1738
05:24 Zeno` http://git.savannah.gnu.org/c​git/make.git/tree/job.c#n2167
05:24 Hijiri does tabs vs. spaces matter for lua scripts?
05:25 est31 yes
05:25 Hijiri I mean, does it matter if I choose tabs over spaces
05:25 Zeno` for your own code? no
05:25 est31 it matters when you try to contribute
05:25 Hijiri like does anyone care if I use spaces for lua indentation
05:25 est31 to minetest
05:26 est31 but inside your own mod, you are free
05:26 Hijiri the lua style guide doesn't explicitly state which to use
05:26 Pilcrow Hijiri: I don't think so; I've used both for indenting purposes before. but tabs look much nicer unless you use ungodly amounts of spaces....  :P
05:26 Hijiri but all the examples use tabs
05:26 est31 nobody will say "I DONT USE YOUR MOD BECAUSE U USE SPACES"
05:26 Hijiri I'm talking about what the style guide wants
05:27 est31 perhaps it is a good idea to add tabs to the guide
05:28 Pilcrow all the default minetest_game stuff uses tabs, afaik, so it's probably best to stick with that if you want your mod to someday be included, but I don't think it's a necessary thing for modding in general; plenty of my favorite mods use spaces...  :)
05:29 Zeno` est31, thanks for pointing the -j128 thing out... I never knew about -j with no parameter; I think I'll use that from now on instead of -j8
05:29 est31 lol
05:29 Pilcrow what does it do with no parameter, Zeno`?
05:29 Zeno` spawns as many jobs as it can until the load average would be exceeded
05:30 est31 <Zeno`> e.g. from the man page:   If the -j option is given without an argument, make will not limit the number  of
05:30 est31 <Zeno`>             jobs that can run simultaneously.
05:30 Pilcrow ah. seems like the better choice then, really.
05:30 Zeno` est31, it still limits based on load average
05:30 Zeno` (the man page doesn't say that but it's in the source)
05:31 Zeno` http://git.savannah.gnu.org/c​git/make.git/tree/job.c#n2127      <--- we need more comments like that in minetest :)
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05:34 Pilcrow Zeno` perhaps the compiling for linux section of the minetest readme should be updated to just say make -j instead of make -j <number of processors>?
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05:34 Zeno` Pilcrow, too hard
05:35 Zeno` xD
05:35 hmmmm how do you know that's valid for bsd make
05:35 * est31 wonders since which version that -j option existed
05:35 Zeno` hmmmm, I don't
05:35 Zeno` which is why it's too hard
05:35 hmmmm i rest my case
05:35 hmmmm god dammit
05:35 Zeno` court is adjourned
05:35 est31 its saying "Compiling on GNU/Linux:"
05:35 hmmmm don't you hate it when passwords expire every 2 months and you are forced to make a new password
05:36 * Pilcrow has never used bsd and didn't know they had a seperate make
05:36 hmmmm but it can't be one of your past 10 passwords, and it needs to have at least 1 capital letter, 1 lower case, at least one numeric, one symbol, and must be between 8 and 12 characters
05:37 hmmmm I got into the habit of appending A, B, C, ... to the same password each time because it's so damn inconvenient and there's no big conspiracy to steal some crappy software products anyway
05:37 est31 123 Password
05:37 Pilcrow hmmmm: ugh! what website are you trying to access? I've never seen one quite that strict...
05:38 hmmmm it's a vpn to access the corporate intranet after already being in a vpn inside a VM
05:38 hmmmm my work computer setup looks like:
05:38 hmmmm computer -> VPN -> VM -> VPN -> intranet
05:39 est31 so the VM lives on an RDP server accessed by the VPN? lol
05:39 Pilcrow there must be a reason for it, but that seems a bit over-engineered to me...  :P
05:39 Zeno` maybe we could adapt that algorithm to use for the v_range adjustment
05:39 hmmmm Cisco AnyConnect, VMWare Horizon, Citrix Receiver,
05:39 Zeno` which I just so happened to be looking at this morning
05:40 hmmmm what's wrong with the current v_range algorithm?
05:40 hmmmm it's based off of the tried and true PID
05:40 Zeno` tried and true PID?
05:40 hmmmm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PID_controller
05:41 Consortium Which programming language is the most "all purpose"?
05:41 Zeno` interesting. /me reads
05:42 * Pilcrow has been lost in devvy stuff that is over his head (again) lol
05:45 Pilcrow depends on what you mean, Consortium. for all-around versatility and ease of porting, probably c/c++, but it's not easy to learn, and can do some dangerous stuff pretty easily, often by accident. Also it's hard; I've tried learning c. I still can barely read it, let alone wright it...  :P
05:45 hmmmm I'd have to say java
05:46 Hijiri I think there are many languages that could be called all-purposey
05:47 VanessaE BASIC of course.
05:47 Zeno` the make job spawning is similar to that PID algorithm as well except it seems to incorporate what your link calls "feed-forward"
05:47 VanessaE after all, that's what the A meant. ;)
05:47 VanessaE come on guys, you're slipping :)
05:47 Zeno` VanessaE, you're just too quick
05:47 Consortium Assembly, BASIC, Lisp, Perl, and Smalltalk are classics, right?
05:48 Zeno` C is a classic
05:48 VanessaE and with that stupid joke, I'm back out again, off to bed.
05:48 Zeno` you're not allowed to, VanessaE
05:49 VanessaE too late.  out -->
05:49 Pilcrow I suppose java is versatile, and portable, but its performance is terrible most of the time...  :\
05:49 Zeno` java performance is not as bad as its reputation might suggest :p
05:49 Pilcrow heh. bye, VanessaE
05:49 est31 its not much worse than lua I think
05:50 Zeno` and performance is relative to context
05:51 Zeno` why does Knuth not mention this PID tuning?
05:51 Zeno` maybe he called it something different
05:52 est31 the tex inventor?
05:52 Zeno` yeah
05:52 Zeno` amongst other things
05:52 Zeno` like his BOOKS
05:52 Zeno` xD
05:53 est31 Tex is like git: its written by its users
05:53 est31 s/written/designed/
05:55 Pilcrow I'll admit java used to be worse than it is now. better JIT support, at least.
05:55 Zeno` est31, you've never heard of Knuth's books?
05:55 est31 I did
05:55 est31 I also saw the price tags
05:55 Zeno` hahahah
05:56 Zeno` anyway, the link hmmmm gave is good. /me bookmarks it
05:56 Zeno` pity I don't trust wikipedia anymore
05:56 Zeno` will have to go to the library tomorrow
05:58 Pilcrow to be fair, wikipedia never really was completely trustworthy; most of us just use it out of convenience, really...  :P
05:58 Zeno` well the main thing is the references :)
05:59 Zeno` http://igor.chudov.com/manuals/Se​rvo-Tuning/PID-without-a-PhD.pdf   this is a good intro
05:59 hmmmm it's a must-know for any autonavigation system or anything that otherwise balances
06:00 Zeno` yeah I see that now
06:00 Zeno` Pilcrow, maybe hoverbot needs it
06:00 Pilcrow lol
06:03 * Pilcrow is happy to finally have git working
06:04 Zeno` :)
06:05 Pilcrow how do I *delete* a repo from github though? it's not really a big deal, but I've got a 2-year-old fork of homedecor I could never figure out how to get rid of...  :P
06:05 est31 https://help.github.com/arti​cles/deleting-a-repository/
06:06 Pilcrow thanks, est31
06:07 Zeno` I just leave them there lol
06:07 Zeno` like my 296000 branches in my minetest repo
06:09 Pilcrow lol wow
06:10 Pilcrow I like being more neat than that though
06:11 Pilcrow at least, online. my real-life organasation skills are pretty much nil.  ;P
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06:13 * Pilcrow needs to sleep soon if he hopes to get up in the morning...  :P
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06:15 Pilcrow oh Zeno`. if you didn't notice from poking around in the code, you can ride the hoverbot; it moves players that are on top of it.
06:15 Zeno` I think you should release it
06:15 Zeno` give the world the hoverbot
06:15 Zeno` heh
06:17 Pilcrow heh. soon. I think I will finish defining the rest of the player table, then release it and see if someone can help me come up with a way to simplify it. I just want to get rid of the known server-crashing capability first, you know?
06:19 Zeno` yep
06:20 Zeno` bbl
06:20 Zeno` and nice work on the hoverbot... I didn't realise it was so cool until today :)
06:29 Pilcrow got pretty quiet in here all of a sudden... Anyways, I'm out. Hope y'all have a good night (or morning, perhaps)...  o/
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07:43 Krock Message: You've got (4) new spam topics!
07:53 Consortium Krock
07:53 Krock Online.
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08:08 Consortium Krock: needs some more ideas for the list
08:08 MinetestBot [git] nerzhul -> minetest/minetest: Fix a rare crash case un SendPlayerHP ce8a9ed http://git.io/vvfv3 (2015-04-11T10:07:23+02:00)
08:08 Krock You can't craft ideas.
08:09 Consortium What do you mean "Craft ideas"?
08:12 Consortium Krock
08:14 Krock Consortium, I mean, it's hard to find new ideas if there are already soo many
08:16 Consortium So, Copy-Paste and Photoshop
08:16 Consortium Krock (i.e. Copying, Transform and Combine)
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08:20 Consortium_ So Krock ...
08:21 Krock Consortium_, I'll add it to your list if I get a mindblow
08:22 Calinou Krock, https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.ph​p?f=47&amp;t=11818&amp;p=175896#p175896 ⇒ yes, Paint.NET is not libre, same for SketchUp
08:22 Krock Calinou, libre = opensource?
08:22 Calinou yes mostly
08:22 Krock Ah, I thought it just means free
08:23 Calinou I've been using GIMP exclusively because of that, even on Windows machines :P and got used to it
08:24 Krock I use PDN for same reason
08:25 Krock (I got used to it)
08:25 Calinou http://www.getpaint.net/license.html
08:26 Calinou this is just like IrfanView, I don't get why it's proprietary as there's no business model of selling copies (only donations)
08:29 Calinou if you want easy modelling, try a Cube 2 game :P it's extremely easy to make models with it
08:29 Calinou although it's bad for making small details
08:29 Calinou I mentionned Tesseract here, but it's the most resource-demanding one
08:29 Calinou try Sauerbraten for something lightweight
08:31 exio4 Calinou: >mfw not using pinta
08:31 exio4 >mfw not using mypaint
08:32 Calinou oh, I forgot about Pinta
08:32 Calinou will mention it
08:34 exio4 Krock: actually, "libre" is actually used because "free" is ambiguous in english
08:35 Krock ah
08:35 Calinou free/libre means the same thing as just “libre”
08:35 Calinou it does not mean it's both gratis (no cost) and libre
08:35 Calinou eg. Ardour and Aseprite are free/libre, but both are paid :P
08:35 exio4 Ardour++
08:36 exio4 Calinou: I am just saying "free" alone is ambiguous
08:36 Calinou anyway, know of any more tools to mention?
08:36 Calinou that are relevant to Minetest modding
08:36 Consortium_ libre is free in european languages
08:36 exio4 TIL Tesseract can export to .obj
08:36 exio4 nice to know
08:37 Calinou all Cube 2 games have a /writeobj <obj name> command that also exports .mtl files
08:37 exio4 so, .tml are just .obj(s)? too? :P
08:37 exio4 so, redeclipse is cool then
08:39 Calinou .mtl contains material information
08:39 Calinou ie. links to textures
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10:57 Calinou https://blog.habets.se/2015​/03/Raytracing-Quake-demos
10:57 Calinou whoa
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11:01 exio4 Calinou: I don't see the difference
11:02 Calinou look at shadows
11:02 Calinou they're so realistic (yet hard)
11:02 exio4 ah
11:02 exio4 smoother shadows
11:02 exio4 I barely noticied
11:02 * Jordach looks at the Cycles rendering engine
11:03 * Jordach rebuilds his BVH
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11:08 Calinou you might be interested in BVHacker
11:08 Calinou http://bvhacker.com/
11:08 Jordach Calinou, http://a.pomf.se/qubnmb.png
11:08 Jordach dem shadows
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11:09 twoelk for windows I use this a lot http://portableapps.com/apps
11:10 twoelk it has most libre apps I use and lets me update them easily
11:10 Calinou yeah, I don't feel a need for it though
11:11 twoelk I use Gimp and Blender through that for example
11:12 Jordach twoelk, you can run blender without portable apps
11:12 twoelk haha really?
11:12 twoelk of course you can, that was not the point
11:13 twoelk you can run all of those apps without - you do not need portable apps at all
11:14 twoelk it just makes things simpler to organize and keep updated
11:15 Jordach a clean enough directory setup will suffice
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11:18 xenkey Jordach: dem windows
11:20 twoelk for the records, I usually use ASuite for my apps organization but use PortableApps for installing if possible and ease of updating several apps at once
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11:23 twoelk I switch between different machines in different places a lot, so that portabilty and not leaving my stuff on different host machines is of course also a good reason for me
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11:34 Krock Minetest is a portable app aswell
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11:47 xenkey sadly
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11:54 Calinou it's in Chocolatey too
11:54 Calinou yeah, I would rather have an official Minetest installer
11:54 Calinou it's more integrated with the system
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12:43 twoelk Krock: if you are interested, have a look in this thread I started some time ago https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=14&amp;t=7709 to try and make minetest officially available in the repository of the PortableApps Organization in contrast to just being a portable app.
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12:44 lionrouge hi !
12:44 twoelk hi big red cat
12:44 lionrouge how to properly transfer worlds between PCs ?
12:44 Calinou lionrouge, 1. make sure Minetest is not launched, 2. copy world folder, 3. optionally compress it, 4. move it to the other PC
12:44 Calinou that's all
12:44 lionrouge doesn't work in my case
12:45 lionrouge i created a DreamBuilder based world
12:45 lionrouge copied DreamBuilder world in corresponding folder
12:45 Calinou do you have dreambuilder installed on both PCs?
12:45 lionrouge not world, but subgame
12:45 lionrouge yes
12:46 lionrouge and then copied world
12:46 Calinou what happens when you try to load it?
12:46 xenkey Hi
12:46 lionrouge well it shows my world only in server tab
12:46 Calinou does your world name have any special character?
12:47 Calinou try to use a-z A-Z 0-9 _- only
12:47 lionrouge and when i try to enter it it raises some errors like "attemp to index local 'game' (a nil value)"
12:47 lionrouge no special characters. alphanumeric only
12:48 twoelk is dreambuilder spelt the same everywhere?
12:48 lionrouge yup
12:50 twoelk gameid = dreambuilder or dreambuilder_game in the wqorld.mt ?
12:50 twoelk *world.mt
12:51 lionrouge dreambuilder
12:51 lionrouge you think i should change it to dreambuilder_game ?
12:52 twoelk no - look at what your version of dreambuilder wants
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12:53 luizrpgluiz hi
12:54 lionrouge twoelk, version of minetest?
12:54 lionrouge 0.4.11+
12:54 lionrouge i have 0.4.12 at the moment
12:54 twoelk maybe great a new dreambuilder map and study the new world.mt is most easy and fast
12:54 lionrouge twoelk, i will try
12:55 twoelk oh I think the latest dreambuilder might need dev version newer than stable
12:56 lionrouge minetest doesn't allow me to create new dreambuilder world - it's just not in list of subgames
12:56 lionrouge i'll dig it a bit more
12:57 twoelk well then it cant show the world if the game is not displayed
13:00 Calinou you probably installed dreambuilder wrong
13:01 lionrouge you're right
13:01 lionrouge i installed minetest from ppa
13:02 lionrouge and put dreambuilder to /usr/share/games/minetest/games
13:02 lionrouge while it need to be in ~/.minetest/games
13:03 lionrouge so i can login to my server
13:04 lionrouge but my player is a new one, not the local one from another pc
13:05 twoelk we really need a nicely illustrated article on the wiki about all the folder structures possible on system wide installations on different OSs and where to put custom content
13:05 lionrouge agree
13:05 lionrouge oh, it's ok ! my world appeared in local games list and i'm now in with all my stuff
13:06 twoelk nice
13:10 Krock twoelk, almost expected there was an earlier discussion about additing it to the portableapps
13:11 twoelk there were several on both forums
13:11 twoelk no rather irc
13:19 twoelk bbl
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14:46 Johnsen2 ~seen Zeno`
14:46 ShadowBot Johnsen2: I saw Zeno` in #minetest 8 hours, 26 minutes, and 22 seconds ago saying "and nice work on the hoverbot... I didn't realise it was so cool until today :)"
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15:07 Krock ~seen Johnsen2
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15:07 ShadowBot Krock: I saw Johnsen2 in #minetest 20 minutes and 50 seconds ago saying "~seen Zeno`"
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15:12 rubenwardy hi all!
15:12 VanessaE hi
15:12 Krock Hi alone!
15:13 Krock no, that sounds unfair. Just hi.
15:13 rubenwardy Hi none?
15:26 xenkey hi!
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15:33 Calinou Announcing Minilens: http://alketii.github.io/minilens/
15:34 rubenwardy That's a nice website
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15:35 Calinou yeah, the theme looks good
15:36 Calinou I made a forum topic about it
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16:55 farfadet46 hello
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18:18 Krock Eww no! Missed my 2700th post
18:23 xenkey Krock: delete some
18:23 Krock xenkey, please lend me your delete key. Mine seems to be broken; can't delete any post.
18:23 xenkey I can give you a hammer
18:24 Krock Oh, that's fine.
18:32 Krock XENKEY, I DESTROYED ALL SMALL CHARACTERS BUT IT STILL DOESNT WORK
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18:34 * Sokomine takes the caps lock key away from krock
18:39 Krock Sokomine, I got the caps unlock key from you and can write small again. haw haw.
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18:44 Sokomine very good, krock :-)
18:45 Krock Shadow! Nuuuh.
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18:45 est31 the inchra one didnt exit, weird
18:47 est31 ~rainbow I am back
18:47 ShadowBot est31: I am back
18:49 Krock !rainbow This is more rainbow
18:49 MinetestBot 4Thi7s i8s m3ore ra6inbow
18:52 xenkey on
18:52 xenkey well
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