Time Nick Message 00:00 est31 btw why is https://github.com/Rogier-5/minetest-mapper-cpp so much commits ahead of master? 00:00 est31 a fork? 00:03 DFeniks ElectronLibre , it generated , althought i set SQLITE3_LIBRARY sqlite-dll-win32-x86-3080802/sqlite3.dll ? i already downloaded that too from that site . i wonder if i set other things right too... now how do i run make with mingw ? what cmd i need to open mvsys? 00:03 DFeniks or something else? 00:22 DFeniks why make is only showing its description and not do anything ? if i run in other folder it at least says: no targets specified and no makefile 00:49 est31 ok, somehow minetestmapper isnt working, can anybody help? 00:50 est31 http://alket.mooo.com/img.png 00:59 TabIeFlip test 01:05 VanessaE est31: my colors.txt is a bit outdated, plus the mapper is supposed to have some kind of auto-generator feature included with it now I thought? 01:05 VanessaE I'm not against it though 01:07 est31 yea seen the other mapper repo which contains a larger colors.txt 01:07 est31 so parhaps not needed after all 01:10 est31 perhaps* 01:11 est31 just wondering why Rogier-5's changes to minetest-mapper aren't merged into minetestmapper master 01:13 LazyJ I've been using Rogier-5's MinetestMapper since he released it. 01:13 LazyJ Earlier today I compiled the "official" minetestmapper and it only produced segmentation fault core dumps. 01:14 est31 lol 01:14 LazyJ VanessaE, do you use the official version; if so, how did you get it to work? 01:14 est31 for me it works 01:14 est31 perhaps doesnt like your map? 01:14 LazyJ idk. 01:14 VanessaE for me it just works 01:15 * Jordach crunches out a render 01:15 LazyJ sfan5 had me compile and run a debug version and it still wouldn't cooperate. 01:15 LazyJ Same mapping commands that I've been using for over a year to produce overview maps for LinuxGaming. 01:16 LazyJ I have noticed that updates to Ubuntu have been reducing the size of map that I can produce. 01:16 LazyJ About a year ago I could render the full 60k x 60k. 01:17 LazyJ Then an update to imagemagik(?) reduced it to 56k^2. 01:17 LazyJ Then 48k^2. 01:17 LazyJ After the last update it's down to 46k^2. 01:17 Jordach tl;dr stop updating software :P 01:18 LazyJ The "Big" map was difficult for anyone to load so I decided to replace it with 8k^2. 01:18 est31 have you tried leaflet based maps 01:18 est31 ? 01:18 est31 http://www.ayntest.net/pages/liberty-land-map.html 01:18 LazyJ One of our admins is still running WinXP on an old laptop. She said she could load the 8k^2 map. 01:18 est31 I'm currently trying to reproduce it 01:19 LazyJ I can still produce the full map in quarters but I doubt anyone but me will use them. 01:19 Jordach minetest mapper was designed for a time when the game was static 01:20 Azelphur VanessaE: rofl, I gave a friend of mine my watch running Minetest, she ran off with it and went to sit in the bathroom with the lights off to play with it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_p2dxqe3bh0&feature=youtu.be xD 01:20 LazyJ It's still useful for planning projects and our players still refer to the maps. 01:21 VanessaE haha 01:27 Jordach VanessaE, got bored, replicated a screenshot 01:27 Jordach http://a.pomf.se/jnwzev.png 01:27 VanessaE ooookay... 01:43 est31 ?? 02:21 est31 LazyJ, how do you restrict the area? 02:25 LazyJ --geometry lowest-x:highest-z+span-across-x+span-across-z 02:26 est31 ok thx 02:26 est31 I'll have to limit the size, this just requires too much ram for me otherwise 02:26 LazyJ Crud. I think I've got the x and z wrong. 02:26 LazyJ Let me check my notes.... 02:27 LazyJ Yup. I had it wrong. Trying again: 02:28 LazyJ --geometery lowest-x:lowest-z+span-of-x+span-of-z 02:28 est31 the mapper should create tiles from the start 02:28 est31 not a huge png file 02:28 LazyJ So to make a map 1000 x 1000 around 0,0,0 would be: ---geometry -500:-500+500+500 02:28 est31 yea seen readme 02:29 est31 this is cool too: ,:widthxheight (center & dimensions) 02:29 LazyJ After the overview maps have been rendered, run pngquant over them if they are under 1mb 02:29 LazyJ Over 1mb - use optipng. 02:29 est31 ok why 02:30 LazyJ To make the map files smaller which makes it easier for your image viewer to load or for web images it's takes less bandwidth. 02:31 LazyJ pngquant is faster than optipng but doesn't compress large files well, if at all. 02:31 LazyJ optipng can make a dent, not a huge one but still a difference. 02:32 LazyJ optipng can compress a 35mb png file to 24mb without noticeable loss of detail (at least for overview map purposes). 02:32 est31 what just annoys me is that resizing a 10 MB image requires 3 GB RAM 02:32 LazyJ Phhttt... tell me about it. 02:32 est31 and creating it in the first place too 02:33 LazyJ When I render the "Big" map for our server (46,000 x 46,000) it consumes 16gb of RAM plus 8gb of the swap file. 02:33 est31 wow 02:34 LazyJ It's a pain, but smaller sections are easier to produce; just more images to keep sorted though. 02:34 est31 I'm heading for sth like this: http://www.ayntest.net/pages/liberty-land-map.html 02:34 est31 its not one file but many small tiles 02:34 LazyJ After the mapper renders the "Big" map, the resulting file is 120mb +/- 02:35 LazyJ mHmm. Miner has been working on something like that for us. 02:35 est31 miner_48er? 02:35 LazyJ The trouble he ran into was getting the web application to start with the center instead of the far, upper-left corner. 02:36 LazyJ Yup. Miner_48er. He's the other head admin of LinuxGaming. 02:36 est31 made him a mod of trepca yesterday. 02:37 LazyJ Solid fellow. Doesn't speak much but is very vigilant. 02:37 est31 great :) 02:37 LazyJ He and I have been working together for over two years. 02:42 * est31 just got an idea: what about calling the mapper multiple times from a script, creating the tiles... 02:43 VanessaE I was thinking of doing just that on my maps.. some of those images are gigantic. 02:43 LazyJ I think that's what Miner did. 02:44 VanessaE (like 12056 x 15048, 43 MB for the VE-Vanilla map) 02:44 est31 gonna publish the .sh file when I'm finished 02:44 VanessaE (56 MB for the Survival map) 02:45 est31 there is this, but I'm not sure whether I want that, or do my own solution: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=10278 02:45 est31 after all it doesnt support my backend 02:48 est31 ah there it is https://github.com/ayntest/ayntest-maps 02:49 est31 funny that they use both python and bash 02:49 est31 after all bash has scripting capabilities 02:49 * est31 wonders whether some ppl around here have python as their login shell 02:51 VanessaE I do like that mapper in fact. 02:52 VanessaE I wonder how hard it is to use/integrate into an existing setup 02:52 est31 I'm currently working on a better one 02:52 est31 that one creates one large image and then crops it 02:52 est31 better is to create many small images 02:52 est31 for RAM and so on 02:53 VanessaE that could also get very CPU-heavy... 02:53 est31 why 02:53 VanessaE constantly re-generating the map image? 02:53 est31 nono 02:54 est31 every tile is just a part of the whole map 02:55 LazyJ Something like Google maps - large map made up of smaller sections. 02:55 VanessaE even re-creating small pieces would get heavy. to be efficient, it would need to only re-generate one mapblock's worth of image data at a time, and then insert the modified piece into some larger tile set 02:55 est31 leaflet is used by openstreetmap btw 02:55 est31 http://www.openstreetmap.org 02:55 VanessaE (re-generate the image for the mapblock if that block has been modified recently, that is) 02:56 LazyJ Idk if Miner has been trying to make it a real-time map or a static map. 02:56 est31 my solution wont be life 02:56 est31 just have many small images from the start 02:56 est31 because the scaledown procedure also takes much ram 02:57 VanessaE ohhh ok 02:57 LazyJ Most players don't build fast enough to make real-time reasonable, is my two cents. 02:57 ShadowNinja Rogier-5's minetest-mapper changes seem good. Does anyone know how the performance compares? 02:57 est31 that MTSattelite one is life however 02:58 est31 should I test it 02:58 LazyJ If you have a script that renders the tiles after a regular backup (daily?), then that should be plenty up-to-date for most player purposes. 02:58 est31 "should I test it" was directed towards ShadowNinja btw 02:59 LazyJ I've been using Rogier's version since he released it but *only* his version, so I can't give any comparison. 02:59 est31 I'm using it, havent compared much 02:59 est31 but official minetestmapper doesnt render my map correctly 02:59 est31 Rogiers' does 03:00 est31 could show you a comparison, just server has network problems 03:00 LazyJ One of the two is able to render the maps with much less detail for those occasions where you don't need to see every node. 03:01 LazyJ Town maps for example. 03:01 est31 yea the leaflet solution does that 03:04 est31 I'll have to figure out a way to communicate it to leaflet that the maps are now 4x in between not 2x 03:08 ShadowNinja est31: Yes, that would be great. Make sure to include sqlite3 and non-sqlite3 (use the sqlite3-cacherow option or whatever it's called, it's hacky and wastes memory for smaller maps, but we need a better schema to fix that) 03:09 ShadowNinja est31: And if you have the time, include small and large maps. 03:09 LazyJ VanessaE, any idea how to make normalmaps less shiny or metallic looking? 03:09 est31 ShadowNinja, dont understand your second sentence 03:10 VanessaE LazyJ: you can't yet. there's currently no control for specular lighting and such. 03:10 LazyJ Ah. 03:10 ShadowNinja est31: Use an SQLite3 map and a levelsb msp. 03:10 ShadowNinja leveldb map* 03:10 est31 ok 03:11 est31 doing that when I've finished creating a mapping script 03:11 ShadowNinja You could also try redis, but the results probably won't be as interesting, so skip that. 03:11 LazyJ Maybe if I stop dusting my monitor? Low tech, cheap, less shiny stuff, and a natural anti-glare screen. :0)- 03:12 VanessaE haha 03:12 VanessaE bbiab 03:13 est31 as its said, the problem sits between monitor and chair :) 03:13 est31 never said that it can't be close to the monitor 03:23 est31 Miner_48er, topic might interest you 03:23 est31 mapping minetest using minetestmapper 03:23 est31 I'm working on a solution on leveraging leafletjs 03:24 est31 with many zoomlevels 03:28 Miner_48er yes reading the log 03:35 Miner_48er est31 so your creating a large image and cropping it into 512^2 or 256^2 images? 03:36 est31 that was my intention at the start, but right now I'm spawning many instances of minetestmapper 03:36 est31 and finding out that this is slow 03:36 est31 but at least not RAM-hungry 03:36 est31 everything better than that 03:37 Pulec have you heard about megavz/nanovz ? 03:38 Pulec lowend vps 03:38 Pulec how much RAM minetest server needs for 30 players? 03:39 Miner_48er I've thought of having a control proccess providing the coords to a # of mappers to speed it up 03:39 Miner_48er Did the tile option in the mapper work for you? 03:40 est31 yea *best* would be to have minetestmapper support small tiles, and then being multithreaded 03:40 est31 no 03:40 est31 I think its more around drawing lines 03:40 est31 so that every tile is separated like a chessboard 03:43 Miner_48er I made a script for that but it's hard coded to the full map at 512^2 03:43 est31 ok 03:43 est31 have you implemented scaling? 03:44 Miner_48er no 04:39 ShadowNinja est31: The mapper currently needs to load every key in the database before it can start -- which isn't fast, and the face that the rowid is messed up probably doesn't help. 04:40 ShadowNinja My pos split PR would fix that, but only for SQLite3. 04:40 ShadowNinja The other DBs have design issues that require loading every key. 04:41 ShadowNinja (or at least a lot of them) 04:42 est31 ShadowNinja, messed up? 04:43 ShadowNinja est31: The pos hash becomes the rowid, but the rowid is normally a sequential integer, not a random-looking hash. 04:43 est31 ah ok 04:44 ShadowNinja This might or might not affect performance, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was a huge preformance issue. 04:44 est31 I think splitting up that hash has advantages 04:45 est31 mapper has a huge ram issue 04:45 est31 dont think thats related 04:45 est31 500 MB map makes mapper require 3 GB ram 09:43 mazal Hi everyone , is there a way to transfer ownership from one playername to another ? ( locked chests etc. ) 09:45 est31 mazal: its hard 09:47 mazal k , cos I am starting a new world seperate from my server and then realized that if I do it in singleplayer , everything will be owned by singleplayer and moving the world to my server I want have access to my things then 09:47 mazal So Is best then to start the new world in server mode with my username rather yes ? 09:48 est31 there is no general way I know of 09:48 mazal k , thanx 09:51 mazal And another question , I see mintest 0.4.12 stable is released. Currently I use the dev ppa for Ubuntu. Will I get the latest minetest version via there and will it change to 0.4.12-dev now ? Or should I change ppa's ? 09:56 est31 that will change yes 09:57 mazal thanx 09:58 est31 in fact, the next build should have the new version 09:58 est31 wait 3 hours, and the version number is updated :) 09:58 mazal Kewl , I just did update in excitement but it's not there yet hehehe 12:19 Rasmez Hi everyone! 12:20 sfan5 hi 12:24 Rasmez Sfan5, u know something about creating mods for Minetest? I need some help 12:25 sfan5 Rasmez: there is an page about creating mods here http://dev.minetest.net/Intro 12:26 rubenwardy http://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book 12:26 rubenwardy I need contributors for the book! 12:27 Rasmez Thank you guys 12:27 Rasmez I wanna create a modpack/subgame for Minetest inspired by an anime called "No Game, No Life" 12:29 Rasmez if i can't at least create a modpack to get Minetest to Minecraft level of features 12:38 gravgun Rasmez: a mod inspired by NGNL? 12:38 gravgun \o/ 12:38 rubenwardy Added feedback section: http://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book/index.html#feedback 12:39 Rasmez the idea is generate simple NPC with the possibility of playing simple games for rare/unique resources 12:39 rubenwardy I pretty much wrote http://dev.minetest.net/Intro about 2 years ago. (I rewrote much of Jeija's tutorial) The Modding Book is much easier to understand. 12:40 rubenwardy IMO, ofc 12:40 Rasmez ? 12:40 rubenwardy Gotta know your TLA text speech 12:40 rubenwardy In my opinion, of course 12:40 Rasmez TLA? what is that? 12:40 rubenwardy three letter acronym 12:40 Rasmez wich means...? 12:41 gravgun Fun fact: TLA is a TLA. 12:41 rubenwardy Yes 12:42 gravgun Fun fact: isogram is an isogram. 12:42 gravgun I'm the fact sphere. 12:42 Rasmez No way! XD 12:42 rubenwardy Each letter in "TLA" means a word. Three Letter Acronym. And there are three letters. 12:42 est31 yea just as GNU is an operating system 12:43 gravgun Without a kernel. Oh wait there's HURD 12:43 est31 Thats what linux is for 12:43 gravgun Gahnoo plus Leenux 12:44 gravgun Everyday I find GNU utils more and more bloated 12:44 est31 use busybox 12:44 Rasmez Ah... 12:44 gravgun This 12:44 Rasmez Thanks 12:44 gravgun I'm going busybox soon 12:45 gravgun And will kick out glibc 12:45 gravgun LFS for the win 12:45 gravgun musl libc 12:45 Rasmez Guys... another question 12:45 gravgun ? 12:45 est31 and then you'll install haskell because your shell cant do anything anymore 12:45 gravgun (zsh) 12:45 Rasmez what do you think about a "Dragon-inspired" mod? 12:46 gravgun That's called Skyrim. 12:46 Rasmez LoL 12:46 Rasmez XD 12:48 gravgun rubenwardy, where's my nodemesh paragraph in "Node drawtypes"? 12:51 gravgun Also rubenwardy, add vertical-align: middle; to elements in your CSS. It looks misaligned else 12:52 Rasmez another question... with what program i can make models for minetest in GNU/Linux O.S? (besides Blender) 12:55 gravgun Rasmez, I had success using Wings3D to make models ( I suck at blender and prefer subdivision-based editors ) 12:59 Rasmez Gravgun, Wings3D is easy to use, right? 12:59 Rasmez i mean, for me Blender is great, but i'm having trouble to model for Voxel-based games :( 12:59 gravgun Pretty easy if you do non-highpoly things 12:59 gravgun For games like Minetest it's perfect 13:00 Rasmez nice :D 13:00 gravgun I had a little painful time UV-mapping the models tho 13:00 Rasmez Thank you 13:00 Rasmez Bye guys! 13:01 Rasmez have a date with my GF 13:01 Rasmez yes, i have a gamer GF! die with envy XP 13:02 ipv6c Is the wiki outdated stating that jungle generation need to be specified in minetest.conf? 13:09 ipv6c Finally ther's a permanent IPv6 server 13:22 guest365 the y map high is -30000-30000 but what is whith the other sites x and z? 13:25 gravgun guest365: all axes are limited within the same bounds 13:25 guest365 ok thanks 13:29 MinetestBot 02[git] 04Jeija -> 03Jeija/minetest-mod-mesecons: Re-add mesecon.register_mvps_unmov(objectname) since other mods (pipeworks) are using it 13eb41647 http://git.io/AqoV (152015-02-19T14:27:20+01:00) 13:35 ipv6c Can't edit the wiki. It says jungle tree generation for a map must be enabled in minetest.conf. I'm running latest version from git and it was generated inside the map. For how long has this been the standard way? 13:37 ipv6c This section is outdated http://wiki.minetest.com/wiki/Biomes#Jungle 13:37 ipv6c "“v6_jungles” has to be added to the variable mg_flags into the minetest.conf to cause the map generator to generate jungles. " is the latest sentence 13:43 ipv6c swaaws if you are there. We must disable fire immediately. 13:43 ipv6c please. 13:44 ipv6c What I meant to say really is: swaaws, could we please disable the fire on the server? 14:00 ipv6c Looks like most players connecting are using a tablet. That leads directly to the mod dilemma, 14:00 shadowzone Is anyone gonna fix the typo on the minetest.net/download page under android. 14:00 shadowzone it says... 14:01 shadowzone there may contain excessive adver ts and are distributed 14:01 ipv6c shadowzone, is a wiki account required to do that edit? 14:01 shadowzone Nope 14:01 shadowzone You need a dev account 14:02 shadowzone So, I can't fix it. 14:20 rubenwardy gravgun, I wasn't aware of that. Where is your paragraph? 14:20 gravgun No, was saying "my" because I want it to be 14:20 gravgun I haven't contributed yet 14:21 rubenwardy Oh okay. I'd love more contributors 14:22 rubenwardy shadowzone, I can fix that. You need to be a minetest.net maintainer 14:22 shadowzone I'v tried contibuting, I just can't think of anything Minetest needs right now. 14:22 rubenwardy Not all devs are minetest.net maintainers 14:23 rubenwardy shadowzone, how experienced are you at C++? 14:23 shadowzone I'm still a beginner 14:23 rubenwardy Oh, do you mean minetest_modding_book? 14:23 rubenwardy I'm confused. 14:24 shadowzone on minetest.net 14:24 shadowzone scroll down and look under the download links to the android version. 14:24 rubenwardy I'v tried contibuting, I just can't think of anything Minetest needs right now. 14:24 rubenwardy We were talking about minetest_modding_book, but do you mean contributing to Minetest C++? 14:25 shadowzone Minetest C++ 14:26 rubenwardy Awesome. 14:26 rubenwardy Just look at github.com/minetest/minetest/issues 14:27 shadowzone I'll see what I can do 14:27 shadowzone My problem is, I try to learn a programming language fail and get annoyed and then get back to it in 2 years. 14:27 rubenwardy shadowzone, correctest minetest.net 14:27 rubenwardy *ed 14:27 shadowzone Thank you. 15:10 luizrpgluiz what has changed in the new version of minetest? version 0.4.12? 15:13 shadowzone I'm not really sure. 15:13 shadowzone Someone has to do changelogs, and I have no idea who is before I do it. 15:20 rubenwardy https://github.com/rubenwardy/minetest_modding_book/tree/examples 15:42 est31 hmmmm, can you review a PR? 15:43 est31 (re-review, you did the first review of it actually) 15:43 est31 #2225 15:43 est31 link ----> https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2225 16:43 hmmmm est31: nope, sorry, i am not associated with minetest anymore 16:44 * Jordach wonders what happened 16:44 est31 O.o when did that happen 16:44 hmmmm last week 16:46 est31 as in "completely not associated" or as in "on a break"? 16:46 hmmmm the former 16:46 shadowzone hmmmm, was it me and cg72? Cause to be honest, she went too crazy even for me. 16:46 hmmmm everything was a factor, yes 16:47 Jordach i didn't even bother you - i left you to deal with the Biome API 16:47 hmmmm i don't need to feel obligated to get stressed out over a video game mostly used by 12-16 year olds 16:47 hmmmm while they don't like me anyway 8) 16:47 shadowzone hmmmm, true 16:48 hmmmm - i don't like the stress of releases, who the fuck made me the release manager 16:48 est31 ah its that stuff where everybody declared to leave minetest permanently 16:48 hmmmm - i don't like having to reargue the same point 10 times over again to ultimately have it ignored 16:48 Jordach hmmmm, commercial releases are like that too 16:48 hmmmm - i don't like having to 'keep up' with everybody else code-wise 16:49 hmmmm what I do want to do is just code some stuff on my own, no rush, no worries 16:49 hmmmm coding is fun. the rest is not 16:49 tim_flatus That's a shame hmmmm I really have appreciated your input 16:49 * Jordach purrs at rubenwardy from Jordach's laptop 16:49 hmmmm and the second it becomes a commitment is th second it stops being fun 16:49 * rubenwardy meows at Jordach 16:49 tim_flatus True enough 16:52 Jordach ಠ_ಠ 2,046 B/s 17:07 sfan5 <hmmmm18> - i don't like the stress of releases, who the fuck made me the release manager 17:07 sfan5 you were/are release manager? 17:11 rubenwardy hmmmm, you can give up your commitments and work when you want to. You are a volunteer. 17:12 rubenwardy I like you XD 17:12 hmmmm i'm glad 0.4.12 made it out okay. 17:13 hmmmm it's like a turd you just needed to wait to pass naturally 17:13 rubenwardy Lol. 17:13 hmmmm nah that's actually a good analogy 17:13 rubenwardy Surprisingly adept 17:14 hmmmm people get pissed off that they're waiting too long and so i force the release through the process and it ends up a turd 17:14 hmmmm a messy turd 17:14 hmmmm because the key people are missing, can't do builds, there's a blocker people forgot to mark in the issues, can't resolve some other blocker because that person's not around, etc. 17:16 hmmmm i know i often said that for minetest to be good it needs developers working on it full time, like nzkrt, and i'm so grateful for him having that sort of energy 17:16 hmmmm but it's being directed towards non-issues instead of the big problems 17:17 hmmmm also just because people would NEED to work on it full time for things to get accomplished, that doesn't mean anybody else is willing to work full time 17:17 hmmmm most of us have full time jobs with overtime 17:20 rubenwardy I agree. Kenny promised getting interns to develop full time, but I don't think that will happen. And they're interns, not necessarily professional. 17:21 Calinou interns are semi-professional 17:21 Calinou not all of them are paid 17:21 * Jordach meows at rubenwardy 17:22 rubenwardy What? :P 17:23 Jordach rubenwardy, Kenny may actually be working on it in silence due to the attention he got 17:23 Jordach not many people like being in the spotlight 17:23 rubenwardy True. Developers usually don't like attention. Good ones, anywar. 17:24 * Jordach looks at the guy who has four m's as his nick 17:25 Calinou Calimmmmou 17:26 * Jordach pets Calinou 17:31 est31 VanessaE, I've done the mapper: https://github.com/est31/leaftest , live version: http://alket.mooo.com/map 17:33 est31 Current issue: either doesn't like leveldb (key load times?) or doesnt like large maps, however VE-S takes tooooo long. I'm planning to make the minetestmapper generate multiple small images, but thats a project with lower prio. 17:34 est31 500 MB map runs fine 17:36 Calinou works 17:36 rubenwardy It would be nice to be able to mark locations, such as towns. 17:37 Calinou read sign contents? 17:37 Calinou player locations? 17:37 Calinou spawn? 17:37 Calinou transparent water, too :P 17:37 est31 can be specified on command line 17:37 rubenwardy All those. You could have pop ups when over signs or something 17:38 est31 what do you mean with player locations? 17:38 rubenwardy Where online players are 17:38 est31 /sethome or where they last logged off? 17:39 rubenwardy Optional, you could have someway of syncing a map. Such as a mod to tell the map server where the players are. 17:39 rubenwardy So players are where they are currently, not when the map was made 17:40 rubenwardy Problem is that it is static HTML 17:40 VanessaE est31: looks good 17:42 rubenwardy Any good alternatives to gmail? 17:43 Krock ymail 17:43 VanessaE short of running your own email server, not really 17:43 ShadowNinja ^ 17:43 Calinou rubenwardy, OpenMailBox: http://openmailbox.org 17:43 est31 then any good email server software? 17:43 ElectronLibre I don't know if you've ever been warned of that, but these awful mapgen bugs are still there : https://lut.im/09N6nLel/pUNU4j2n (map generated a few days ago, using 0.4.11-dev, running 0.4.12-dev as server, blocks appeared 10 minutes ago). Wasn't that fixed? 17:43 est31 everything you need out of the box? 17:44 Calinou you can host your own too, although that will cost money ;) 17:44 ShadowNinja est31: Eh, there's quite a bit of setup. 17:44 VanessaE ElectronLibre: that was supposed to have been fixed, yes 17:44 est31 VanessaE, seems you get your in-between-release :) 17:45 ElectronLibre And yet, it spawned 20 minutes ago on my map, and I found about 6 of them since the beggining of January. (about after 15 of January in fact). 17:45 VanessaE est31: eh? 17:45 VanessaE ElectronLibre: how old is your minetest? 17:45 ElectronLibre 0.4.12-dev compiled ~35 minutes ago. 17:45 ElectronLibre (server and client) 17:46 ElectronLibre However, when the blob spawned, I was using 0.4.12-release. 17:46 nore couldn't it have spawned before, and you not noticed it? 17:46 VanessaE shit. 17:46 est31 VanessaE, when this is still a problem, there will be a bugfix release 17:46 Krock blocks generate earlier than you might think. please reproduce this bug in a new world 17:46 ElectronLibre There were two in fact, and both at places I already visited in the sky. 17:46 VanessaE est31: ah right, ok 17:47 est31 VanessaE, you had some discussions about bugfix releases on #mt-dev :) 17:47 ElectronLibre Ok Krock that's what I thought, I'm gonna do it and then tell you, I hope you won't need a in-between-release. 17:47 VanessaE est31: yeah but that was mostly in hopes of getting a couple new features into the 0.4 branch as well :P 17:47 est31 are there missing ones? 17:47 ElectronLibre By the way I enabled local map saving, I don't know if it's important. 17:48 est31 VanessaE, or future planning :) 17:48 VanessaE est31: not "missing" so much as a couple things nrzkt and I had discussed adding; I'm not at all inclined to move past the 0.4.x branch (I'll lose too many users). 17:49 VanessaE (specifically about rollback-recording of dig/place events, and a find surfaces api call) 17:49 est31 ok 17:50 nore so, the servers will be using 0.4 until the 0.5 release? 17:51 VanessaE they'll be using 0.4 for a long time after the 0.5 release. 17:51 est31 btw the nightly build ppa should be split up between 0.4 and 0.5 17:51 est31 guess alket loses 90% of its users as they all are mobile 17:52 VanessaE ^^^ that is why I won't update. 17:52 est31 s/alket/trepca/ 17:52 VanessaE I'll lose most of mine, too 17:52 VanessaE which isn't that many to begin with, anymore 17:52 nore there are quite a lot I thought... 17:52 ElectronLibre What was the blobs' bug reason? (I've got time before my map is generated so I would like to know how I can reproduce precisely) 17:53 VanessaE not like it used to be 17:53 nore hm.. 17:54 VanessaE ElectronLibre: it's caused by moretrees generating, but the mapgen not having enough blocks actually generated above them when a tree pops into existence 17:54 VanessaE so when it tries to pre-fill some blocks, they end up filled with garbage 17:55 ElectronLibre Oh, that explains why it happens only with moretrees enable. 17:55 VanessaE it can only happen if you're far enough away from the tree when it pops up and if it pops up quickly enough after the land it generates on appears. 17:55 VanessaE (otherwise the air above it will have enough time to also generate and the bug won't happen) 17:57 ElectronLibre I see. 17:57 tim_flatus So can you obviate it by forcing the map to generate by flying around? 17:58 VanessaE in theory. 17:59 tim_flatus Ah, that explains why I've only had two so far 18:00 * ElectronLibre remembers he already had one buried into the ground *_* 18:01 rubenwardy # 18:03 tim_flatus I'm going to start hacking on awards to integrate it into my game 18:03 est31 awards? 18:03 tim_flatus Would it be feasible to make it part of some more tangible player progression? 18:03 * tim_flatus is looking at rubenwardy really 18:04 tim_flatus tangible is possibly the wrong word here :-/ 18:04 rubenwardy Are there any firefox addons that tell you if the website you're on is free software etc? 18:04 rubenwardy or in search results 18:06 rubenwardy http://www.grumpynerd.com/?p=132 18:06 rubenwardy tim_flatus, what exactly do you mean? 18:11 tim_flatus If player a has dug 1000 node for example that qualifies them to use tool x 18:11 pitriss est31: about your mapgen script, you should add imagemagick into dependencies.. i saw convert there which I guess is part of imagemagick 18:12 est31 ah good catch :) 18:12 est31 yea uses 2 tools from imagemagick 18:12 tim_flatus TBH rubenwardy I can see that it can be done and I haven't really got my questions clear, so perhaps I'll bother you about it when I've got a bit further down the line 18:12 rubenwardy Interesting. I'll experiment. The problem is tools are client side, I think. You'd have to stop them crafting and getting them into their inventory 18:13 rubenwardy Meh 18:14 tim_flatus Not really - I'm looking for a more fine-grained priv system - which I believe Jordach may have done some work on - more like super-powers 18:15 Jordach tim_flatus, pick between jumping, lesser gravity, speed or flight 18:15 tim_flatus So winning an award unlocks a pseudo-priviliege 18:15 tim_flatus Is that it so far Jordach? :) 18:16 Jordach tim_flatus, speed in tight areas like caves is a bad idea 18:16 Jordach flight is useful for builders 18:16 tim_flatus So is trying to fly through your own front door :D 18:16 Jordach (hover in place for a while) 18:18 ElectronLibre VanessaE: I generated a huge part of a new map and get no blob, so I think everything is fine. 18:19 VanessaE ElectronLibre: you have to keep trying for at least a couple hours. 18:19 tim_flatus testing mapgen is tedious 18:20 rubenwardy I don't mind helping you with developing it for "awards", and adding API stuff that you might need. 18:21 VanessaE I think there's some kind of achievements mod in Realtest that may be of use to you 18:21 rubenwardy Mine's the best, ofc 18:21 est31 pitriss, updated 18:21 VanessaE https://github.com/VanessaE/realtest_game/tree/master/mods/awards 18:21 pitriss thanks est31:) 18:21 VanessaE looks like it's yours, rubenwardy :) 18:22 * Jordach has a modified version in BFD which is under development 18:25 rubenwardy you should update the awards in realtest, it doesn't use the latest version (which uses HUD) 18:25 rubenwardy instead of formspec 18:25 VanessaE meh, I don't maintain realtest anyway 18:25 VanessaE that's just my local copy if it 18:25 VanessaE of* 18:26 rubenwardy ah, okay 18:27 tim_flatus Right I was looking at the version in dreambuilder. The version in BFD has been hacked about rather a lot 18:27 rubenwardy jordan4ibanez(313hummer on youtube) said: i read what you say and i wonder..i use linuxmint 12 kde and everything is fast and smooth..i run a minetest server while recording and rendering and it only uses 1.3 gb of ram..for the documentation there are plenty of people out there that will help you ..most opensource programmers have women..this is 2012..please update your opinions 18:28 rubenwardy achievement unlocked 18:28 tim_flatus :D 18:28 rubenwardy http://www.grumpynerd.com/?p=132 18:28 rubenwardy ^ in there 18:28 tim_flatus I spaced out around "Most computer nerds have the attention span of a teenage girl off her Adderall. " QED 18:29 VanessaE hah 18:30 tim_flatus Thanks rubenwardy - before I get distracted again - I'll start by editing the basic awards, which I can see clearly how to do. 18:31 rubenwardy Latest version is here: https://github.com/rubenwardy/awards 18:32 tim_flatus Thank you. For example I want to reward players for planting trees, which is more or less just changing a "dig" award to "place" 18:32 rubenwardy Yeah, you just need to add that for the sappling. 18:33 tim_flatus I also want to have a kind of league table of who has dug deepest, explored furthest etc 18:33 rubenwardy That is very interesting. PilzAdam made a stats mod. 18:34 tim_flatus I'll have a look for that too. 18:34 rubenwardy https://github.com/PilzAdam/stats 18:35 rubenwardy I'll add support for that in awards 18:35 tim_flatus :-) excellent! 18:35 Krock rubenwardy, "99.99993% of open source software is complete garbage." - Oh what a luck for us. 18:36 gravgun So what i'm working on right now is garbage Krock? 18:36 rubenwardy I wouldn't say Minetest is complete garbage, but it lacks. 18:36 Krock gravgun, either it's incomplete garbage or not garbage. I think it's the 2nd 18:36 tim_flatus I don't understand the GrumpyNerd perspective. I've been using Linux for 15 years exclusively 18:37 tim_flatus I have also introduced it to several dyslexic friends, who all find it easier to use than Windows 18:37 * tim_flatus shrugs 18:38 rubenwardy I like Linux because of the terminal (and how well programs all use it) and the speed. sudo apt-get, git, cmake, make. 18:38 rubenwardy I wish games supported it more 18:38 Calinou all my games support it 18:38 tim_flatus Minetest is a bit of a victory in that sense 18:38 est31 I like linux because of the console. 18:39 rubenwardy Stronghold doesn't. 18:39 rubenwardy I want a FOSS Stronghold 18:39 preludelinux actually there has been a big push for linux gaming lately 18:40 tim_flatus I used to like cube2 and still enjoy the occasional blast of 0ad 18:40 tim_flatus Basically minetest does what I wished cube did 18:41 * tim_flatus can't be arsed with fps arena games 18:43 Calinou for proprietary “linux” gaming* 18:43 Calinou FTFY 18:44 rubenwardy Yeah. The best games are proprietary because of the budgets for art etc 18:44 rubenwardy Medieval Engineers looks F-ing awesome. 18:45 Calinou “the best games” very debatable; it depends how and why you judge them 18:46 thaostra Linux is convenient for me to use because it doesn't cost me anything, is easy to modify for my needs, and all of the tools integrate nicely 18:48 preludelinux theres always going to be closed source stuff at least games fit nicely into a closed category , a good balance is at least opening up the engines at some point , but art assets and story etc it was not free to make 18:48 Calinou don't mix cost and licensing 18:48 Calinou the fact a closed nature makes games better is simply wrong 18:48 Calinou a cringing exemple is Warsow 18:50 rubenwardy The entities (ie: game studies) that have bigger budgets and better artists/developers are the ones that license their games as proprietary. They don't want forks or sharing of their code, they want profit. 18:50 Calinou well, I want to show them that this is bad :P 18:52 rubenwardy You can't change them. They want to make a profit, and FOSS doesn't let them do that to their full potential due to forking and people being able to play without paying. 18:52 rubenwardy You could solve that by making it the multiplayer servers you pay for, and then you'd have less competitors because hosting servers costs a lot and competitors won't be as fast. 18:53 rubenwardy But meh. 18:54 Calinou there are other business models than selling copies of digital works 18:54 Calinou sharing should be legal, so that that business simply ends up dying 18:54 rubenwardy Such as? 18:55 Calinou I named them already many times 18:55 rubenwardy http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCgQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FBusiness_models_for_open-source_software&ei=pzHmVM23J-qv7Aaw5oCQAQ&usg=AFQjCNHxXoozUYVh_oZOfsW3qmXpZ-jHaw&sig2=di0Orq-ZrTIdoddIwuAg9g 18:55 Calinou but here you go: crowdfunding, “pay what you want”… 18:55 rubenwardy I hate that 18:55 rubenwardy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_models_for_open-source_software 18:56 thaostra The problem with FOSS gaming isn't so much a technical problem as it is a content problem. A lot of the games that people like to champion as examples of FOSS game development done right usually don't have much of a story or underlying lore, instead living off of a premise. I'd say this is because of a lack of art direction, as the people writing game engine code usually aren't the same people creating textures, doing 18:56 thaostra voiceovers, or writing a story. Don't get me wrong, multiplayer games are fun, but one can easily play a more polished game like TF2 which has way more content anyway 18:56 Calinou downloadable hats don't count as real content 18:56 Calinou they bring nothing to the game, except wasting the money of people :P 18:57 thaostra You're not considering the extensive lore the game has built up 18:57 Calinou you're here to play games, not fap to lore :P 18:57 rubenwardy It adds to the game play experience 18:57 thaostra ^ 18:57 Jordach go back to Tamriel if you want lore 18:57 Calinou yeah, but I don't consider it essential 18:58 Calinou also, games with lots of lore/immersion elements tend to be worse for competitive gameplay 18:58 Calinou (except if such elements are optional) 18:58 Calinou eg. mandatory motion blur/vignetting 19:01 ElectronLibre Just a thing, is it normal that unofficial compiled builds are still printing "minetest-0.4.11-*" after 0.4.12's release? 19:01 thaostra I don't see the correlation between lore and graphics settings that are usually config options in PC games 19:02 est31 ElectronLibre, try latest git, it should be fixed there 19:02 Jordach http://a.pomf.se/hpqhlv.png (kill me) 19:02 preludelinux i think some of the issue boils down to copyright law needing changed 19:02 ElectronLibre est31: It's latest.. 19:02 Krock https://www.battleforthenet.com/ - offtopic 19:02 Calinou preludelinux, it won't fix games being distributed without source code :( 19:02 Calinou we can't force them to do that with a law 19:02 thaostra Anyway, I'm going out to lunch, so bbl 19:03 sfan5 Jordach: >OpenGL 1.3 19:03 sfan5 Jordach: must be an ancient laptop 19:03 preludelinux X amount of time before public domain ? 19:04 est31 thats hurting copyleft too 19:04 MinetestBot 02[git] 04nerzhul -> 03minetest/minetest: Typo fix in networkprotocol.h 13e357577 http://git.io/AOmF (152015-02-19T20:03:22+01:00) 19:04 preludelinux hmm X amount of time before copyleft domain ~ 19:06 ElectronLibre est31, look at that : "-- *** Detected git version 0.4.11-241-ge357577 ***" 19:07 est31 ElectronLibre, have you tried to rm CMakeCache* 19:08 ElectronLibre Let me try, now you say it it's more logic. 19:08 est31 that doesnt help either 19:08 est31 but 0.4.11 bump wasnt sth else: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/3f83ca29d3cbe9d283c11ab836cc24b2cb99539d 19:08 ElectronLibre So even if git "*** Will build version 0.4.12-dev ***" it has "*** Detected git version 0.4.11-241-ge357577 ***"? Because even after Cmake's cache removed, it's still there. 19:09 ElectronLibre And the same problem happened (on release this time, not dev) with 0.4.11. 19:13 tim_flatus OK, looks like 'stats' can go straight in :-) 19:14 tim_flatus It would be nice if PilzAdam documented it slightly. I know the code is fairly obvious, but ... 19:14 * tim_flatus grumbles pointlessly 19:16 Calinou X amount of time before public domain ? 19:16 Calinou public domain software without source is still proprietary 19:17 preludelinux well the concept would be full release of everything ~ 19:17 est31 ElectronLibre, a fresh clone doesnt have the issues 19:17 est31 seems you have to delete some other cache or so 19:18 ElectronLibre Ok est31. 19:22 tim_flatus Copyright / left isn't the same thing as licensing 19:23 * Jordach sets his client into suicide mode 19:23 * Jordach joins VanessaE's Survival server 19:24 tim_flatus Have fun dieing Jordach! :-) 19:24 Jordach can this laptop from 2005 (with 512mb of ram) enter the worst possible server that kills most high end desktop clients 19:24 alket est31: you plan to upgrade to that version ? 19:24 est31 0.4.12? 19:25 VanessaE Jordach: it won't. you need at least 1.5 GB (and that's if you turn off the mesh cache, else about 2.5 GB) 19:27 est31 alket, server already runs 0.4.11-dev 19:27 est31 because of crashing issues 19:27 est31 I'll update to 0.4.12 19:28 alket so no mobile users :s 19:28 * tim_flatus is avoiding mesh nodes for that very reason 19:28 est31 no thats only for >0.4.12 19:29 alket ah great :) 19:29 alket for sure we would lose 90% of players 19:30 tim_flatus It means people running 0.4.10 clients can still play 19:30 tim_flatus or whatever mobile clients that are supported 19:30 VanessaE and if they complain about mesh nodes looking like badly-textured cubes, tell them to play on a PC or to bug their client vendors to upgrade their code 19:31 alket there's no way they can play on pc 19:31 alket i couldn't get some to launch the game 19:31 VanessaE then they're being lazy. 19:31 alket windows user are used with installers with Next , Next , Finish 19:32 VanessaE download -> unzip -> open folder -> open "bin" -> run minetest.exe 19:32 est31 those installers were one of the reasons why I switched to linux 19:32 est31 dont want to update 10 programs through 20 dialogs 19:32 tim_flatus You're assuming a certain level of intelligence / experience VanessaE 19:33 VanessaE tim_flatus: yeah, so? 19:33 tim_flatus So that's the bar for playing on one of your worlds 19:33 VanessaE when I was 11 we knew how to program a computer, for G*d sakes. 19:34 tim_flatus I'm not saying you're wrong. 19:34 VanessaE I'm not saying minetest doesn't need an installer of some kind (zeno suggested self-extracting 7zip I think) 19:34 Jordach BFD is worse :) 19:34 Jordach ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) 19:34 tim_flatus I find dyslexic teenagers to be really useful testers, that's all 19:34 VanessaE but to cater to brain-dead-stupid ... ? no. just no., 19:34 ElectronLibre tim_flatus, like monkeys punching keys on a keyboard? 19:35 tim_flatus My point is really that they're not all being lazy 19:35 est31 ElectronLibre, do rm CPack* && rm -r CMakeFiles 19:35 tim_flatus You set the bar where you want it 19:36 est31 that should remove the files with the old release 19:36 * Jordach attempts to join the only existing BFD server 19:37 ElectronLibre est31: I rm-ed CMakeFiles and CMakeCache, and did make clean. I'm gonna try this. 19:37 est31 its CPack 19:39 ElectronLibre VanessaE: I learnt C when I was 11 too, and I think you must agree it's kind of stupid to not teach basic things about computers, in a society were computers are everywhere, so users can't even undesrtand they need to unzip and open ./bin/minetest.exe. 19:40 rubenwardy I did installers for a while, but stopped when I moved to linux. I don't think the installer maker supported it 19:44 est31 alket, updated 19:44 alket nice 19:45 Krock http://xkcd.com/1488/ 19:46 rubenwardy I was literally just reading that 19:46 rubenwardy Did you see VanessaE's link to xkcd? 19:47 Krock (no I didn't 19:47 ElectronLibre From #minetest-dev : rubenwardy: http://xkcd.com/859/ 19:49 sfan5 ElectronLibre: that is because the 0.4.12 tag is not part of the master branch 19:50 ElectronLibre So it's useless to compile and compile and compile etc... ok, thanks. 19:51 Jordach ಠ_ಠ http://a.pomf.se/mgxamx.png 19:53 Jordach i'm pushing the limits of a 2005 laptop at this point :P 19:53 Krock Jordach, where's the font shadow? 19:53 Krock btw, I got a drawtime over 1000 :P 19:53 Jordach Krock, no idea :P 19:53 Krock (once upon a time 19:57 Calinou VanessaE, .exe installer can be made with NSIS/InnoSetup/whatever 19:57 Calinou there are various free/libre Windows installer programs out there 19:57 VanessaE Calinou: good luck getting the core devs to use one. 19:57 Krock ^ even with 7zip (but that's a self-extracting rchive) 19:59 rubenwardy I used InnoSetup 21:31 tim_flatus areas: how do you set an area by reference rather than punching nodes? 21:32 est31 /area_pos1 /area_pos2 or /area_pos x,y x,y 21:32 tim_flatus /area_pos thankyou 21:34 tim_flatus no that didn't work 21:35 tim_flatus maybe /area_pos set 21:36 tim_flatus hmm 21:39 tim_flatus /area_pos1/2 X Y Z - or so it sez 21:46 tim_flatus That did it 21:47 * tim_flatus tells himself to rtfm 21:55 bas0801 VanessaE 21:55 bas0801 sorry trying some cammands in finch 22:03 tim_flatus rubenwardy has gone - Calinou or Jordach if you're active - can you use groups in the trigger/node field or does it have to be an actual node name? 22:03 tim_flatus I'm guessing the latter 22:03 Jordach tim_flatus, abms right? 22:03 tim_flatus Soryy I am referring to awards mod 22:03 Jordach nodes are usable by name, groups might be as well 22:04 Jordach provided that group is like soil=1 where those nodes are soil and can be tilled 22:04 tim_flatus I suppose there's one way of finding out ;-) 22:04 Jordach !rtfm tim_flatus 22:04 MinetestBot tim_flatus, Someone thinks you should read the manual. The development wiki is at http://dev.minetest.net, the regular wiki is at http://wiki.minetest.net. 22:05 tim_flatus lol 22:05 * tim_flatus considers himself told 22:10 tim_flatus /give_award tim_flatus this_is_sad 22:16 tim_flatus TBH even skimming the code leaves me nonethewiser 22:20 alpha_one_x86 http://pastebin.com/YLG1vfRU 22:20 alpha_one_x86 Under wine 22:21 tim_flatus Goutons voir oui oui oui ... 22:22 Calinou Windows XP is not supported 22:22 alpha_one_x86 Bref c'est surment un bug qui peu être corrigé coté minetest... 22:22 Calinou and I believe, so is Wine… 22:23 Calinou #minetest-fr for French 22:26 alpha_one_x86 ok, thanks, I re 22:26 tim_flatus I have just created a "L'Jouer qui plantait des arbres" award. ;-) 22:26 VanessaE scary thing is I actually managed to read that 22:26 VanessaE and I don't read french. 22:27 Wayward_One Language statistics for minetest according to GitHub:XML 59.7%?? When did that happen? 22:28 VanessaE O_o 22:29 VanessaE nevermind "when".... more like "how"? 22:29 Wayward_One exactly! 22:29 VanessaE what the f-- 22:30 VanessaE https://github.com/minetest/minetest/search?l=xml 22:31 VanessaE well, whatever. 22:31 Wayward_One huh... funny how it's only showing up recently 22:34 Wayward_One just a day or two ago it showed up as mostly C++ 22:34 * Wayward_One shrugs 22:35 Jordach GitHub needs to stop stealing my w33d 22:37 Calinou Gitorious doesn't even steal marktraceur's 22:37 Jordach marktraceur just has YoloSwag 22:40 Wayward_One lol 23:18 marktraceur I drive through Yolo, CA screaming "YOLOOOOOOOOOO" 23:18 * init hugs marktraceur 23:30 Lugal There is no Minecart in Minetest? 23:31 shadowzone There is a mod 23:33 Lugal are there minecarts planned for the standart game? 23:33 Lugal cause there are already rails 23:55 bas080 Lugal: Try the mods 23:55 bas080 Lugal: Maybe you'll like them