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IRC log for #minetest, 2015-02-19

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 est31 btw why is https://github.com/Rogier-5/minetest-mapper-cpp so much commits ahead of master?
00:00 est31 a fork?
00:03 DFeniks ElectronLibre , it generated , althought i set SQLITE3_LIBRARY sqlite-dll-win32-x86-3080802/sqlite3.dll ? i already downloaded that too from that site . i wonder if i set other things right too...  now how do i run make with mingw ? what cmd i need to open mvsys?
00:03 DFeniks or something else?
00:22 DFeniks why make is only showing its description and not do anything ? if i run in other folder it at least says: no targets specified and no makefile
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00:49 est31 ok, somehow minetestmapper isnt working, can anybody help?
00:50 est31 http://alket.mooo.com/img.png
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00:59 TabIeFlip test
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01:05 VanessaE est31: my colors.txt is a bit outdated, plus the mapper is supposed to have some kind of auto-generator feature included with it now I thought?
01:05 VanessaE I'm not against it though
01:07 est31 yea seen the other mapper repo which contains a larger colors.txt
01:07 est31 so parhaps not needed after all
01:10 est31 perhaps*
01:11 est31 just wondering why Rogier-5's changes to minetest-mapper aren't merged into minetestmapper master
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01:13 LazyJ I've been using Rogier-5's MinetestMapper since he released it.
01:13 LazyJ Earlier today I compiled the "official" minetestmapper and it only produced segmentation fault core dumps.
01:14 est31 lol
01:14 LazyJ VanessaE, do you use the official version; if so, how did you get it to work?
01:14 est31 for me it works
01:14 est31 perhaps doesnt like your map?
01:14 LazyJ idk.
01:14 VanessaE for me it just works
01:15 * Jordach crunches out a render
01:15 LazyJ sfan5 had me compile and run a debug version and it still wouldn't cooperate.
01:15 LazyJ Same mapping commands that I've been using for over a year to produce overview maps for LinuxGaming.
01:16 LazyJ I have noticed that updates to Ubuntu have been reducing the size of map that I can produce.
01:16 LazyJ About a year ago I could render the full 60k x 60k.
01:17 LazyJ Then an update to imagemagik(?) reduced it to 56k^2.
01:17 LazyJ Then 48k^2.
01:17 LazyJ After the last update it's down to 46k^2.
01:17 Jordach tl;dr stop updating software :P
01:18 LazyJ The "Big" map was difficult for anyone to load so I decided to replace it with 8k^2.
01:18 est31 have you tried leaflet based maps
01:18 est31 ?
01:18 est31 http://www.ayntest.net/pages/liberty-land-map.html
01:18 LazyJ One of our admins is still running WinXP on an old laptop. She said she could load the 8k^2 map.
01:18 est31 I'm currently trying to reproduce it
01:19 LazyJ I can still produce the full map in quarters but I doubt anyone but me will use them.
01:19 Jordach minetest mapper was designed for a time when the game was static
01:20 Azelphur VanessaE: rofl, I gave a friend of mine my watch running Minetest, she ran off with it and went to sit in the bathroom with the lights off to play with it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=​_p2dxqe3bh0&feature=youtu.be xD
01:20 LazyJ It's still useful for planning projects and our players still refer to the maps.
01:21 VanessaE haha
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01:27 Jordach VanessaE, got bored, replicated a screenshot
01:27 Jordach http://a.pomf.se/jnwzev.png
01:27 VanessaE ooookay...
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01:43 est31 ??
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02:21 est31 LazyJ, how do you restrict the area?
02:25 LazyJ --geometry lowest-x:highest-z+span-across-x+span-across-z
02:26 est31 ok thx
02:26 est31 I'll have to limit the size, this just requires too much ram for me otherwise
02:26 LazyJ Crud. I think I've got the x and z wrong.
02:26 LazyJ Let me check my notes....
02:27 LazyJ Yup. I had it wrong. Trying again:
02:28 LazyJ --geometery lowest-x:lowest-z+span-of-x+span-of-z
02:28 est31 the mapper should create tiles from the start
02:28 est31 not a huge png file
02:28 LazyJ So to make a map 1000 x 1000 around 0,0,0 would be:    ---geometry -500:-500+500+500
02:28 est31 yea seen readme
02:29 est31 this is cool too: <xcenter>,<ycenter>:widthxheight (center & dimensions)
02:29 LazyJ After the overview maps have been rendered, run pngquant over them if they are under 1mb
02:29 LazyJ Over 1mb - use optipng.
02:29 est31 ok why
02:30 LazyJ To make the map files smaller which makes it easier for your image viewer to load or for web images it's takes less bandwidth.
02:31 LazyJ pngquant is faster than optipng but doesn't compress large files well, if at all.
02:31 LazyJ optipng can make a dent, not a huge one but still a difference.
02:32 LazyJ optipng can compress a 35mb png file to 24mb without noticeable loss of detail (at least for overview map purposes).
02:32 est31 what just annoys me is that resizing a 10 MB image requires 3 GB RAM
02:32 LazyJ Phhttt... tell me about it.
02:32 est31 and creating it in the first place too
02:33 LazyJ When I render the "Big" map for our server (46,000 x 46,000) it consumes 16gb of RAM plus 8gb of the swap file.
02:33 est31 wow
02:34 LazyJ It's a pain, but smaller sections are easier to produce; just more images to keep sorted though.
02:34 est31 I'm heading for sth like this: http://www.ayntest.net/pages/liberty-land-map.html
02:34 est31 its not one file but many small tiles
02:34 LazyJ After the mapper renders the "Big" map, the resulting file is 120mb +/-
02:35 LazyJ mHmm. Miner has been working on something like that for us.
02:35 est31 miner_48er?
02:35 LazyJ The trouble he ran into was getting the web application to start with the center instead of the far, upper-left corner.
02:36 LazyJ Yup. Miner_48er. He's the other head admin of LinuxGaming.
02:36 est31 made him a mod of trepca yesterday.
02:37 LazyJ Solid fellow. Doesn't speak much but is very vigilant.
02:37 est31 great :)
02:37 LazyJ He and I have been working together for over two years.
02:42 * est31 just got an idea: what about calling the mapper multiple times from a script, creating the tiles...
02:43 VanessaE I was thinking of doing just that on my maps..  some of those images are gigantic.
02:43 LazyJ I think that's what Miner did.
02:44 VanessaE (like 12056 x 15048, 43 MB for the VE-Vanilla map)
02:44 est31 gonna publish the .sh file when I'm finished
02:44 VanessaE (56 MB for the Survival map)
02:45 est31 there is this, but I'm not sure whether I want that, or do my own solution: https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?f=14&amp;t=10278
02:45 est31 after all it doesnt support my backend
02:48 est31 ah there it is https://github.com/ayntest/ayntest-maps
02:49 est31 funny that they use both python and bash
02:49 est31 after all bash has scripting capabilities
02:49 * est31 wonders whether some ppl around here have python as their login shell
02:51 VanessaE I do like that mapper in fact.
02:52 VanessaE I wonder how hard it is to use/integrate into an existing setup
02:52 est31 I'm currently working on a better one
02:52 est31 that one creates one large image and then crops it
02:52 est31 better is to create many small images
02:52 est31 for RAM and so on
02:53 VanessaE that could also get very CPU-heavy...
02:53 est31 why
02:53 VanessaE constantly re-generating the map image?
02:53 est31 nono
02:54 est31 every tile is just a part of the whole map
02:55 LazyJ Something like Google maps - large map made up of smaller sections.
02:55 VanessaE even re-creating small pieces would get heavy.  to be efficient, it would need to only re-generate one mapblock's worth of image data at a time, and then insert the modified piece into some larger tile set
02:55 est31 leaflet is used by openstreetmap btw
02:55 est31 http://www.openstreetmap.org
02:55 VanessaE (re-generate the image for the mapblock if that block has been modified recently, that is)
02:56 LazyJ Idk if Miner has been trying to make it a real-time map or a static map.
02:56 est31 my solution wont be life
02:56 est31 just have many small images from the start
02:56 est31 because the scaledown procedure also takes much ram
02:57 VanessaE ohhh ok
02:57 LazyJ Most players don't build fast enough to make real-time reasonable, is my two cents.
02:57 ShadowNinja Rogier-5's minetest-mapper changes seem good.  Does anyone know how the performance compares?
02:57 est31 that MTSattelite one is life however
02:58 est31 should I test it
02:58 LazyJ If you have a script that renders the tiles after a regular backup (daily?), then that should be plenty up-to-date for most player purposes.
02:58 est31 "should I test it" was directed towards ShadowNinja btw
02:59 LazyJ I've been using Rogier's version since he released it but *only* his version, so I can't give any comparison.
02:59 est31 I'm using it, havent compared much
02:59 est31 but official minetestmapper doesnt render my map correctly
02:59 est31 Rogiers' does
03:00 est31 could show you a comparison, just server has network problems
03:00 LazyJ One of the two is able to render the maps with much less detail for those occasions where you don't need to see every node.
03:01 LazyJ Town maps for example.
03:01 est31 yea the leaflet solution does that
03:04 est31 I'll have to figure out a way to communicate it to leaflet that the maps are now 4x in between not 2x
03:08 ShadowNinja est31: Yes, that would be great.  Make sure to include sqlite3 and non-sqlite3 (use the sqlite3-cacherow option or whatever it's called, it's hacky and wastes memory for smaller maps, but we need a better schema to fix that)
03:09 ShadowNinja est31: And if you have the time, include small and large maps.
03:09 LazyJ VanessaE, any idea how to make normalmaps less shiny or metallic looking?
03:09 est31 ShadowNinja,  dont understand your second sentence
03:10 VanessaE LazyJ: you can't yet.  there's currently no control for specular lighting and such.
03:10 LazyJ Ah.
03:10 ShadowNinja est31: Use an SQLite3 map and a levelsb msp.
03:10 ShadowNinja leveldb map*
03:10 est31 ok
03:11 est31 doing that when I've finished creating a mapping script
03:11 ShadowNinja You could also try redis, but the results probably won't be as interesting, so skip that.
03:11 LazyJ Maybe if I stop dusting my monitor? Low tech, cheap, less shiny stuff, and a natural anti-glare screen. :0)-
03:12 VanessaE haha
03:12 VanessaE bbiab
03:13 est31 as its said, the problem sits between monitor and chair :)
03:13 est31 never said that it can't be close to the monitor
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03:23 est31 Miner_48er, topic might interest you
03:23 est31 mapping minetest using minetestmapper
03:23 est31 I'm working on a solution on leveraging leafletjs
03:24 est31 with many zoomlevels
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03:28 Miner_48er yes reading the log
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03:35 Miner_48er est31 so your creating a large image and cropping it into 512^2 or 256^2 images?
03:36 est31 that was my intention at the start, but right now I'm spawning many instances of minetestmapper
03:36 est31 and finding out that this is slow
03:36 est31 but at least not RAM-hungry
03:36 est31 everything better than that
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03:37 Pulec have you heard about megavz/nanovz ?
03:38 Pulec lowend vps
03:38 Pulec how much RAM minetest server needs for 30 players?
03:39 Miner_48er I've thought of having a control proccess providing the coords to a # of mappers to speed it up
03:39 Miner_48er Did the tile option in the mapper work for you?
03:40 est31 yea *best* would be to have minetestmapper support small tiles, and then being multithreaded
03:40 est31 no
03:40 est31 I think its more around drawing lines
03:40 est31 so that every tile is separated like a chessboard
03:43 Miner_48er I made a script for that but it's hard coded to the full map at 512^2
03:43 est31 ok
03:43 est31 have you implemented scaling?
03:44 Miner_48er no
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04:39 ShadowNinja est31: The mapper currently needs to load every key in the database before it can start -- which isn't fast, and the face that the rowid is messed up probably doesn't help.
04:40 ShadowNinja My pos split PR would fix that, but only for SQLite3.
04:40 ShadowNinja The other DBs have design issues that require loading every key.
04:41 ShadowNinja (or at least a lot of them)
04:42 est31 ShadowNinja, messed up?
04:43 ShadowNinja est31: The pos hash becomes the rowid, but the rowid is normally a sequential integer, not a random-looking hash.
04:43 est31 ah ok
04:44 ShadowNinja This might or might not affect performance, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was a huge preformance issue.
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04:44 est31 I think splitting up that hash has advantages
04:45 est31 mapper has a huge ram issue
04:45 est31 dont think thats related
04:45 est31 500 MB map makes mapper require 3 GB ram
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09:43 mazal Hi everyone , is there a way to transfer ownership from one playername to another ? ( locked chests etc. )
09:45 est31 mazal: its hard
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09:47 mazal k , cos I am starting a new world seperate from my server and then realized that if I do it in singleplayer , everything will be owned by singleplayer and moving the world to my server I want have access to my things then
09:47 mazal So Is best then to start the new world in server mode with my username rather yes ?
09:48 est31 there is no general way I know of
09:48 mazal k , thanx
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09:51 mazal And another question , I see mintest 0.4.12 stable is released. Currently I use the dev ppa for Ubuntu. Will I get the latest minetest version via there and will it change to 0.4.12-dev now ? Or should I change ppa's ?
09:56 est31 that will change yes
09:57 mazal thanx
09:58 est31 in fact, the next build should have the new version
09:58 est31 wait 3 hours, and the version number is updated :)
09:58 mazal Kewl , I just did update in excitement but it's not there yet hehehe
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12:19 Rasmez Hi everyone!
12:20 sfan5 hi
12:24 Rasmez Sfan5, u know something about creating mods for Minetest? I need some help
12:25 sfan5 Rasmez: there is an page about creating mods here http://dev.minetest.net/Intro
12:26 rubenwardy http://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book
12:26 rubenwardy I need contributors for the book!
12:27 Rasmez Thank you guys
12:27 Rasmez I wanna create a modpack/subgame for Minetest inspired by an anime called "No Game, No Life"
12:29 Rasmez if i can't at least create a modpack to get Minetest to Minecraft level of features
12:38 gravgun Rasmez: a mod inspired by NGNL?
12:38 gravgun \o/
12:38 rubenwardy Added feedback section: http://rubenwardy.com/minetest_m​odding_book/index.html#feedback
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12:39 Rasmez the idea is generate simple NPC with the possibility of playing simple games for rare/unique resources
12:39 rubenwardy I pretty much wrote http://dev.minetest.net/Intro about 2 years ago. (I rewrote much of Jeija's tutorial) The Modding Book is much easier to understand.
12:40 rubenwardy IMO, ofc
12:40 Rasmez ?
12:40 rubenwardy Gotta know your TLA text speech
12:40 rubenwardy In my opinion, of course
12:40 Rasmez TLA? what is that?
12:40 rubenwardy three letter acronym
12:40 Rasmez wich means...?
12:41 gravgun Fun fact: TLA is a TLA.
12:41 rubenwardy Yes
12:42 gravgun Fun fact: isogram is an isogram.
12:42 gravgun I'm the fact sphere.
12:42 Rasmez No way! XD
12:42 rubenwardy Each letter in "TLA" means a word. Three Letter Acronym. And there are three letters.
12:42 est31 yea just as GNU is an operating system
12:43 gravgun Without a kernel. Oh wait there's HURD
12:43 est31 Thats what linux is for
12:43 gravgun Gahnoo plus Leenux
12:44 gravgun Everyday I find GNU utils more and more bloated
12:44 est31 use busybox
12:44 Rasmez Ah...
12:44 gravgun This
12:44 Rasmez Thanks
12:44 gravgun I'm going busybox soon
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12:45 gravgun And will kick out glibc
12:45 gravgun LFS for the win
12:45 gravgun musl libc
12:45 Rasmez Guys... another question
12:45 gravgun ?
12:45 est31 and then you'll install haskell because your shell cant do anything anymore
12:45 gravgun (zsh)
12:45 Rasmez what do you think about a "Dragon-inspired" mod?
12:46 gravgun That's called Skyrim.
12:46 Rasmez LoL
12:46 Rasmez XD
12:48 gravgun rubenwardy, where's my nodemesh paragraph in "Node drawtypes"?
12:51 gravgun Also rubenwardy, add vertical-align: middle; to <code> elements in your CSS. It looks misaligned else
12:52 Rasmez another question... with what program i can make models for minetest in GNU/Linux O.S? (besides Blender)
12:55 gravgun Rasmez, I had success using Wings3D to make models ( I suck at blender and prefer subdivision-based editors )
12:59 Rasmez Gravgun, Wings3D is easy to use, right?
12:59 Rasmez i mean, for me Blender is great, but i'm having trouble to model for Voxel-based games :(
12:59 gravgun Pretty easy if you do non-highpoly things
12:59 gravgun For games like Minetest it's perfect
13:00 Rasmez nice :D
13:00 gravgun I had a little painful time UV-mapping the models tho
13:00 Rasmez Thank you
13:00 Rasmez Bye guys!
13:01 Rasmez have a date with my GF
13:01 Rasmez yes, i have a gamer GF! die with envy XP
13:02 ipv6c Is the wiki outdated stating that jungle generation need to be specified in minetest.conf?
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13:09 ipv6c Finally ther's a permanent IPv6 server
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13:22 guest365 the y map high is -30000-30000 but what is whith the other sites x and z?
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13:25 gravgun guest365: all axes are limited within the same bounds
13:25 guest365 ok thanks
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13:29 MinetestBot [git] Jeija -> Jeija/minetest-mod-mesecons: Re-add mesecon.register_mvps_unmov(objectname) since other mods (pipeworks) are using it eb41647 http://git.io/AqoV (2015-02-19T14:27:20+01:00)
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13:35 ipv6c Can't edit the wiki. It says jungle tree generation for a map must be enabled in minetest.conf. I'm running latest version from git and it was generated inside the map. For how long has this been the standard way?
13:37 ipv6c This section is outdated http://wiki.minetest.com/wiki/Biomes#Jungle
13:37 ipv6c "“v6_jungles” has to be added to the variable mg_flags into the minetest.conf to cause the map generator to generate jungles. " is the latest sentence
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13:43 ipv6c swaaws if you are there. We must disable fire immediately.
13:43 ipv6c please.
13:44 ipv6c What I meant to say really is: swaaws, could we please disable the fire on the server?
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14:00 ipv6c Looks like most players connecting are using a tablet. That leads directly to the mod dilemma,
14:00 shadowzone Is anyone gonna fix the typo on the minetest.net/download page under android.
14:00 shadowzone it says...
14:01 shadowzone there may contain excessive adver ts and are distributed
14:01 ipv6c shadowzone, is a wiki account required to do that edit?
14:01 shadowzone Nope
14:01 shadowzone You need a dev account
14:02 shadowzone So, I can't fix it.
14:20 rubenwardy gravgun, I wasn't aware of that. Where is your paragraph?
14:20 gravgun No, was saying "my" because I want it to be
14:20 gravgun I haven't contributed yet
14:21 rubenwardy Oh okay. I'd love more contributors
14:22 rubenwardy shadowzone, I can fix that. You need to be a minetest.net maintainer
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14:22 shadowzone I'v tried contibuting, I just can't think of anything Minetest needs right now.
14:22 rubenwardy Not all devs are minetest.net maintainers
14:23 rubenwardy shadowzone, how experienced are you at C++?
14:23 shadowzone I'm still a beginner
14:23 rubenwardy Oh, do you mean minetest_modding_book?
14:23 rubenwardy I'm confused.
14:24 shadowzone on minetest.net
14:24 shadowzone scroll down and look under the download links to the android version.
14:24 rubenwardy <shadowzone> I'v tried contibuting, I just can't think of anything Minetest needs right now.
14:24 rubenwardy We were talking about minetest_modding_book, but do you mean contributing to Minetest C++?
14:25 shadowzone Minetest C++
14:26 rubenwardy Awesome.
14:26 rubenwardy Just look at github.com/minetest/minetest/issues
14:27 shadowzone I'll see what I can do
14:27 shadowzone My problem is, I try to learn a programming language fail and get annoyed and then get back to it in 2 years.
14:27 rubenwardy shadowzone, correctest minetest.net
14:27 rubenwardy *ed
14:27 shadowzone Thank you.
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15:10 luizrpgluiz what has changed in the new version of minetest? version 0.4.12?
15:13 shadowzone I'm not really sure.
15:13 shadowzone Someone has to do changelogs, and I have no idea who is before I do it.
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15:20 rubenwardy https://github.com/rubenwardy/min​etest_modding_book/tree/examples
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15:42 est31 hmmmm, can you review a PR?
15:43 est31 (re-review, you did the first review of it actually)
15:43 est31 #2225
15:43 est31 link ----> https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2225
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16:43 hmmmm est31:  nope, sorry, i am not associated with minetest anymore
16:44 * Jordach wonders what happened
16:44 est31 O.o when did that happen
16:44 hmmmm last week
16:46 est31 as in "completely not associated" or as in "on a break"?
16:46 hmmmm the former
16:46 shadowzone hmmmm, was it me and cg72?  Cause to be honest, she went too crazy even for me.
16:46 hmmmm everything was a factor, yes
16:47 Jordach i didn't even bother you - i left you to deal with the Biome API
16:47 hmmmm i don't need to feel obligated to get stressed out over a video game mostly used by 12-16 year olds
16:47 hmmmm while they don't like me anyway 8)
16:47 shadowzone hmmmm, true
16:48 hmmmm - i don't like the stress of releases, who the fuck made me the release manager
16:48 est31 ah its that stuff where everybody declared to leave minetest permanently
16:48 hmmmm - i don't like having to reargue the same point 10 times over again to ultimately have it ignored
16:48 Jordach hmmmm, commercial releases are like that too
16:48 hmmmm - i don't like having to 'keep up' with everybody else code-wise
16:49 hmmmm what I do want to do is just code some stuff on my own, no rush, no worries
16:49 hmmmm coding is fun.  the rest is not
16:49 rubenwardy joined #minetest
16:49 tim_flatus That's a shame hmmmm I really have appreciated your input
16:49 * Jordach purrs at rubenwardy from Jordach's laptop
16:49 hmmmm and the second it becomes a commitment is th second it stops being fun
16:49 * rubenwardy meows at Jordach
16:49 tim_flatus True enough
16:52 Jordach ಠ_ಠ 2,046 B/s
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17:07 sfan5 <hmmmm> - i don't like the stress of releases, who the fuck made me the release manager
17:07 sfan5 you were/are release manager?
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17:11 rubenwardy hmmmm, you can give up your commitments and work when you want to. You are a volunteer.
17:12 rubenwardy I like you XD
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17:12 hmmmm i'm glad 0.4.12 made it out okay.
17:13 hmmmm it's like a turd you just needed to wait to pass naturally
17:13 rubenwardy Lol.
17:13 hmmmm nah that's actually a good analogy
17:13 rubenwardy Surprisingly adept
17:14 hmmmm people get pissed off that they're waiting too long and so i force the release through the process and it ends up a turd
17:14 hmmmm a messy turd
17:14 hmmmm because the key people are missing, can't do builds, there's a blocker people forgot to mark in the issues, can't resolve some other blocker because that person's not around, etc.
17:16 hmmmm i know i often said that for minetest to be good it needs developers working on it full time, like nzkrt, and i'm so grateful for him having that sort of energy
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17:16 hmmmm but it's being directed towards non-issues instead of the big problems
17:17 hmmmm also just because people would NEED to work on it full time for things to get accomplished, that doesn't mean anybody else is willing to work full time
17:17 hmmmm most of us have full time jobs with overtime
17:20 rubenwardy I agree. Kenny promised getting interns to develop full time, but I don't think that will happen. And they're interns, not necessarily professional.
17:21 Calinou interns are semi-professional
17:21 Calinou not all of them are paid
17:21 * Jordach meows at rubenwardy
17:22 rubenwardy What? :P
17:23 Jordach rubenwardy, Kenny may actually be working on it in silence due to the attention he got
17:23 Jordach not many people like being in the spotlight
17:23 rubenwardy True. Developers usually don't like attention. Good ones, anywar.
17:24 * Jordach looks at the guy who has four m's as his nick
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17:25 Calinou Calimmmmou
17:26 * Jordach pets Calinou
17:31 est31 VanessaE, I've done the mapper: https://github.com/est31/leaftest , live version: http://alket.mooo.com/map
17:33 est31 Current issue: either doesn't like leveldb (key load times?) or doesnt like large maps, however VE-S takes tooooo long. I'm planning to make the minetestmapper generate multiple small images, but thats a project with lower prio.
17:34 est31 500 MB map runs fine
17:36 Calinou works
17:36 rubenwardy It would be nice to be able to mark locations, such as towns.
17:36 Viper168 joined #minetest
17:37 Calinou read sign contents?
17:37 Calinou player locations?
17:37 Calinou spawn?
17:37 Calinou transparent water, too :P
17:37 Krock joined #minetest
17:37 est31 can be specified on command line
17:37 rubenwardy All those. You could have pop ups when over signs or something
17:38 est31 what do you mean with player locations?
17:38 rubenwardy Where online players are
17:38 est31 /sethome or where they last logged off?
17:39 rubenwardy Optional, you could have someway of syncing a map. Such as a mod to tell the map server where the players are.
17:39 rubenwardy So players are where they are currently, not when the map was made
17:40 rubenwardy Problem is that it is static HTML
17:40 luizrpgluiz joined #minetest
17:40 VanessaE est31: looks good
17:40 Jordach joined #minetest
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17:42 rubenwardy Any good alternatives to gmail?
17:43 Krock ymail
17:43 VanessaE short of running your own email server, not really
17:43 ShadowNinja ^
17:43 Calinou rubenwardy, OpenMailBox: http://openmailbox.org
17:43 est31 then any good email server software?
17:43 ElectronLibre I don't know if you've ever been warned of that, but these awful mapgen bugs are still there : https://lut.im/09N6nLel/pUNU4j2n (map generated a few days ago, using 0.4.11-dev, running 0.4.12-dev as server, blocks appeared 10 minutes ago). Wasn't that fixed?
17:43 est31 everything you need out of the box?
17:44 Calinou you can host your own too, although that will cost money ;)
17:44 ShadowNinja est31: Eh, there's quite a bit of setup.
17:44 VanessaE ElectronLibre: that was supposed to have been fixed, yes
17:44 est31 VanessaE, seems you get your in-between-release :)
17:45 ElectronLibre And yet, it spawned 20 minutes ago on my map, and I found about 6 of them since the beggining of January. (about after 15 of January in fact).
17:45 VanessaE est31: eh?
17:45 VanessaE ElectronLibre: how old is your minetest?
17:45 ElectronLibre 0.4.12-dev compiled ~35 minutes ago.
17:45 ElectronLibre (server and client)
17:46 ElectronLibre However, when the blob spawned, I was using 0.4.12-release.
17:46 nore couldn't it have spawned before, and you not noticed it?
17:46 VanessaE shit.
17:46 est31 VanessaE, when this is still a problem, there will be a bugfix release
17:46 Krock blocks generate earlier than you might think. please reproduce this bug in a new world
17:46 ElectronLibre There were two in fact, and both at places I already visited in the sky.
17:46 VanessaE est31: ah right, ok
17:47 est31 VanessaE, you had some discussions about bugfix releases on #mt-dev :)
17:47 ElectronLibre Ok Krock that's what I thought, I'm gonna do it and then tell you, I hope you won't need a in-between-release.
17:47 VanessaE est31: yeah but that was mostly in hopes of getting a couple new features into the 0.4 branch as well :P
17:47 est31 are there missing ones?
17:47 ElectronLibre By the way I enabled local map saving, I don't know if it's important.
17:48 est31 VanessaE, or future planning :)
17:48 VanessaE est31: not "missing" so much as a couple things nrzkt and I had discussed adding; I'm not at all inclined to move past the 0.4.x branch (I'll lose too many users).
17:49 VanessaE (specifically about rollback-recording of dig/place events, and a find surfaces api call)
17:49 est31 ok
17:50 nore so, the servers will be using 0.4 until the 0.5 release?
17:51 VanessaE they'll be using 0.4 for a long time after the 0.5 release.
17:51 est31 btw the nightly build ppa should be split up between 0.4 and 0.5
17:51 est31 guess alket loses 90% of its users as they all are mobile
17:52 VanessaE ^^^ that is why I won't update.
17:52 est31 s/alket/trepca/
17:52 VanessaE I'll lose most of mine, too
17:52 VanessaE which isn't that many to begin with, anymore
17:52 nore there are quite a lot I thought...
17:52 ElectronLibre What was the blobs' bug reason? (I've got time before my map is generated so I would like to know how I can reproduce precisely)
17:53 VanessaE not like it used to be
17:53 nore hm..
17:54 VanessaE ElectronLibre: it's caused by moretrees generating, but the mapgen not having enough blocks actually generated above them when a tree pops into existence
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17:54 VanessaE so when it tries to pre-fill some blocks, they end up filled with garbage
17:55 ElectronLibre Oh, that explains why it happens only with moretrees enable.
17:55 VanessaE it can only happen if you're far enough away from the tree when it pops up and if it pops up quickly enough after the land it generates on appears.
17:55 VanessaE (otherwise the air above it will have enough time to also generate and the bug won't happen)
17:57 ElectronLibre I see.
17:57 tim_flatus So can you obviate it by forcing the map to generate by flying around?
17:58 VanessaE in theory.
17:59 tim_flatus Ah, that explains why I've only had two so far
18:00 * ElectronLibre remembers he already had one buried into the ground *_*
18:01 rubenwardy #
18:03 tim_flatus I'm going to start hacking on awards to integrate it into my game
18:03 est31 awards?
18:03 tim_flatus Would it be feasible to make it part of some more tangible player progression?
18:03 * tim_flatus is looking at rubenwardy really
18:04 tim_flatus tangible is possibly the wrong word here :-/
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18:04 rubenwardy Are there any firefox addons that tell you if the website you're on is free software etc?
18:04 rubenwardy or in search results
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18:06 rubenwardy http://www.grumpynerd.com/?p=132
18:06 rubenwardy tim_flatus, what exactly do you mean?
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18:11 tim_flatus If player a has dug 1000 node for example that qualifies them to use tool x
18:11 pitriss est31: about your mapgen script, you should add imagemagick into dependencies.. i saw convert there which I guess is part of imagemagick
18:12 est31 ah good catch :)
18:12 est31 yea uses 2 tools from imagemagick
18:12 tim_flatus TBH rubenwardy I can see that it can be done and I haven't really got my questions clear, so perhaps I'll bother you about it when I've got a bit further down the line
18:12 rubenwardy Interesting. I'll experiment. The problem is tools are client side, I think. You'd have to stop them crafting and getting them into their inventory
18:13 rubenwardy Meh
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18:14 tim_flatus Not really - I'm looking for a more fine-grained priv system - which I believe Jordach may have done some work on - more like super-powers
18:15 Jordach tim_flatus, pick between jumping, lesser gravity, speed or flight
18:15 tim_flatus So winning an award unlocks a pseudo-priviliege
18:15 tim_flatus Is that it so far Jordach? :)
18:16 Jordach tim_flatus, speed in tight areas like caves is a bad idea
18:16 Jordach flight is useful for builders
18:16 tim_flatus So is trying to fly through your own front door :D
18:16 Jordach (hover in place for a while)
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18:18 ElectronLibre VanessaE: I generated a huge part of a new map and get no blob, so I think everything is fine.
18:19 VanessaE ElectronLibre: you have to keep trying for at least a couple hours.
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18:19 tim_flatus testing mapgen is tedious
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18:20 rubenwardy I don't mind helping you with developing it for "awards", and adding API stuff that you might need.
18:21 VanessaE I think there's some kind of achievements mod in Realtest that may be of use to you
18:21 rubenwardy Mine's the best, ofc
18:21 est31 pitriss, updated
18:21 VanessaE https://github.com/VanessaE/realt​est_game/tree/master/mods/awards
18:21 pitriss thanks est31:)
18:21 VanessaE looks like it's yours, rubenwardy  :)
18:22 * Jordach has a modified version in BFD which is under development
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18:25 rubenwardy you should update the awards in realtest, it doesn't use the latest version (which uses HUD)
18:25 rubenwardy instead of formspec
18:25 VanessaE meh, I don't maintain realtest anyway
18:25 VanessaE that's just my local copy if it
18:25 VanessaE of*
18:26 rubenwardy ah, okay
18:27 tim_flatus Right I was looking at the version in dreambuilder. The version in BFD has been hacked about rather a lot
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18:27 rubenwardy jordan4ibanez(313hummer on youtube) said: i read what you say and i wonder..i use linuxmint 12 kde and everything is fast and smooth..i run a minetest server while recording and rendering and it only uses 1.3 gb of ram..for the documentation there are plenty of people out there that will help you ..most opensource programmers have women..this is 2012..please update your opinions
18:28 rubenwardy achievement unlocked
18:28 tim_flatus :D
18:28 rubenwardy http://www.grumpynerd.com/?p=132
18:28 rubenwardy ^ in there
18:28 tim_flatus I spaced out around "Most computer nerds have the attention span of a teenage girl off her Adderall. " QED
18:29 VanessaE hah
18:30 tim_flatus Thanks rubenwardy - before I get distracted again - I'll start by editing the basic awards, which I can see clearly how to do.
18:31 rubenwardy Latest version is here: https://github.com/rubenwardy/awards
18:32 tim_flatus Thank you. For example I want to reward players for planting trees, which is more or less just changing a "dig" award to "place"
18:32 rubenwardy Yeah, you just need to add that for the sappling.
18:33 tim_flatus I also want to have a kind of league table of who has dug deepest, explored furthest etc
18:33 rubenwardy That is very interesting. PilzAdam made a stats mod.
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18:34 tim_flatus I'll have a look for that too.
18:34 rubenwardy https://github.com/PilzAdam/stats
18:35 rubenwardy I'll add support for that in awards
18:35 tim_flatus :-) excellent!
18:35 Krock rubenwardy, "99.99993% of open source software is complete garbage." - Oh what a luck for us.
18:36 gravgun So what i'm working on right now is garbage Krock?
18:36 rubenwardy I wouldn't say Minetest is complete garbage, but it lacks.
18:36 Krock gravgun, either it's incomplete garbage or not garbage. I think it's the 2nd
18:36 tim_flatus I don't understand the GrumpyNerd perspective. I've been using Linux for 15 years exclusively
18:37 tim_flatus I have also introduced it to several dyslexic friends, who all find it easier to use than Windows
18:37 * tim_flatus shrugs
18:38 rubenwardy I like Linux because of the terminal (and how well programs all use it) and the speed. sudo apt-get, git, cmake, make.
18:38 rubenwardy I wish games supported it more
18:38 Calinou all my games support it
18:38 tim_flatus Minetest is a bit of a victory in that sense
18:38 est31 I like linux because of the console.
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18:39 rubenwardy Stronghold doesn't.
18:39 rubenwardy I want a FOSS Stronghold
18:39 preludelinux actually there has been a big push for linux gaming  lately
18:40 tim_flatus I used to like cube2 and still enjoy the occasional blast of 0ad
18:40 tim_flatus Basically minetest does what I wished cube did
18:41 * tim_flatus can't be arsed with fps arena games
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18:43 Calinou for proprietary “linux” gaming*
18:43 Calinou FTFY
18:44 rubenwardy Yeah. The best games are proprietary because of the budgets for art etc
18:44 rubenwardy Medieval Engineers looks F-ing awesome.
18:45 Calinou “the best games” very debatable; it depends how and why you judge them
18:46 thaostra Linux is convenient for me to use because it doesn't cost me anything, is easy to modify for my needs, and all of the tools integrate nicely
18:47 raymondillo left #minetest
18:48 preludelinux theres always going to be closed source stuff at least games fit nicely into a closed category  , a good balance is at least opening up the engines at some point , but art assets and story etc  it was not free to make
18:48 Calinou don't mix cost and licensing
18:48 Calinou the fact a closed nature makes games better is simply wrong
18:48 Calinou a cringing exemple is Warsow
18:50 rubenwardy The entities (ie: game studies) that have bigger budgets and better artists/developers are the ones that license their games as proprietary. They don't want forks or sharing of their code, they want profit.
18:50 Calinou well, I want to show them that this is bad :P
18:52 rubenwardy You can't change them. They want to make a profit, and FOSS doesn't let them do that to their full potential due to forking and people being able to play without paying.
18:52 ElectronLibre joined #minetest
18:52 rubenwardy You could solve that by making it the multiplayer servers you pay for, and then you'd have less competitors because hosting servers costs a lot and competitors won't be as fast.
18:53 rubenwardy But meh.
18:54 Calinou there are other business models than selling copies of digital works
18:54 Calinou sharing should be legal, so that that business simply ends up dying
18:54 rubenwardy Such as?
18:55 Calinou I named them already many times
18:55 rubenwardy http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&amp;rct=j&amp​;q=&amp;esrc=s&amp;source=web&amp;cd=1&amp;cad​=rja&amp;uact=8&amp;ved=0CCgQFjAA&amp;url=http​%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FBusiness_mo​dels_for_open-source_software&amp;ei=pzHmVM23J​-qv7Aaw5oCQAQ&amp;usg=AFQjCNHxXoozUYVh_oZOfsW3​qmXpZ-jHaw&amp;sig2=di0Orq-ZrTIdoddIwuAg9g
18:55 Calinou but here you go: crowdfunding, “pay what you want”…
18:55 rubenwardy I hate that
18:55 rubenwardy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Busine​ss_models_for_open-source_software
18:56 thaostra The problem with FOSS gaming isn't so much a technical problem as it is a content problem. A lot of the games that people like to champion as examples of FOSS game development done right usually don't have much of a story or underlying lore, instead living off of a premise. I'd say this is because of a lack of art direction, as the people writing game engine code usually aren't the same people creating textures, doing
18:56 thaostra voiceovers, or writing a story. Don't get me wrong, multiplayer games are fun, but one can easily play a more polished game like TF2 which has way more content anyway
18:56 Calinou downloadable hats don't count as real content
18:56 Calinou they bring nothing to the game, except wasting the money of people :P
18:57 Jordach joined #minetest
18:57 thaostra You're not considering the extensive lore the game has built up
18:57 Calinou you're here to play games, not fap to lore :P
18:57 rubenwardy It adds to the game play experience
18:57 thaostra ^
18:57 Jordach go back to Tamriel if you want lore
18:57 Calinou yeah, but I don't consider it essential
18:58 Calinou also, games with lots of lore/immersion elements tend to be worse for competitive gameplay
18:58 Calinou (except if such elements are optional)
18:58 Calinou eg. mandatory motion blur/vignetting
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19:01 ElectronLibre Just a thing, is it normal that unofficial compiled builds are still printing "minetest-0.4.11-*" after 0.4.12's release?
19:01 thaostra I don't see the correlation between lore and graphics settings that are usually config options in PC games
19:02 est31 ElectronLibre, try latest git, it should be fixed there
19:02 Jordach http://a.pomf.se/hpqhlv.png (kill me)
19:02 preludelinux i think some of the issue boils down to copyright law needing changed
19:02 ElectronLibre est31: It's latest..
19:02 Krock https://www.battleforthenet.com/ - offtopic
19:02 Calinou preludelinux, it won't fix games being distributed without source code :(
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19:02 Calinou we can't force them to do that with a law
19:02 thaostra Anyway, I'm going out to lunch, so bbl
19:03 sfan5 Jordach: >OpenGL 1.3
19:03 sfan5 Jordach: must be an ancient laptop
19:03 preludelinux X amount of time before public domain ?
19:04 est31 thats hurting copyleft too
19:04 MinetestBot [git] nerzhul -> minetest/minetest: Typo fix in networkprotocol.h e357577 http://git.io/AOmF (2015-02-19T20:03:22+01:00)
19:04 fireglow- left #minetest
19:04 preludelinux hmm X amount of time before copyleft domain  ~
19:04 mazal joined #minetest
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19:06 ElectronLibre est31, look at that : "-- *** Detected git version 0.4.11-241-ge357577 ***"
19:07 rubenwardy joined #minetest
19:07 est31 ElectronLibre, have you tried to rm CMakeCache*
19:08 ElectronLibre Let me try, now you say it it's more logic.
19:08 est31 that doesnt  help either
19:08 est31 but 0.4.11 bump wasnt sth else: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/3f83ca29d3cbe9d283c11ab836cc24b2cb99539d
19:08 ElectronLibre So even if git "*** Will build version 0.4.12-dev ***" it has "*** Detected git version 0.4.11-241-ge357577 ***"? Because even after Cmake's cache removed, it's still there.
19:09 ElectronLibre And the same problem happened (on release this time, not dev) with 0.4.11.
19:13 tim_flatus OK, looks like 'stats' can go straight in :-)
19:14 tim_flatus It would be nice if PilzAdam documented it slightly. I know the code is fairly obvious, but ...
19:14 * tim_flatus grumbles pointlessly
19:16 Calinou <preludelinux> X amount of time before public domain ?
19:16 Calinou public domain software without source is still proprietary
19:17 preludelinux well the concept would be full release of everything ~
19:17 est31 ElectronLibre, a fresh clone doesnt have the issues
19:17 est31 seems you have to delete some other cache or so
19:18 ElectronLibre Ok est31.
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19:22 tim_flatus Copyright / left isn't the same thing as licensing
19:23 * Jordach sets his client into suicide mode
19:23 * Jordach joins VanessaE's Survival server
19:24 tim_flatus Have fun dieing Jordach! :-)
19:24 Jordach can this laptop from 2005 (with 512mb of ram) enter the worst possible server that kills most high end desktop clients
19:24 alket est31: you plan to upgrade to that version ?
19:24 est31 0.4.12?
19:25 VanessaE Jordach: it won't.  you need at least 1.5 GB (and that's if you turn off the mesh cache, else about 2.5 GB)
19:27 est31 alket, server already runs 0.4.11-dev
19:27 est31 because of crashing issues
19:27 est31 I'll update to 0.4.12
19:28 alket so no mobile users :s
19:28 * tim_flatus is avoiding mesh nodes for that very reason
19:28 est31 no thats only for >0.4.12
19:29 alket ah great :)
19:29 alket for sure we would lose 90% of players
19:30 tim_flatus It means people running 0.4.10 clients can still play
19:30 tim_flatus or whatever mobile clients that are supported
19:30 VanessaE and if they complain about mesh nodes looking like badly-textured cubes, tell them to play on a PC or to bug their client vendors to upgrade their code
19:31 Jordach joined #minetest
19:31 alket there's no way they can play on pc
19:31 alket i couldn't get some to launch the game
19:31 VanessaE then they're being lazy.
19:31 alket windows user are used with installers with Next , Next , Finish
19:32 VanessaE download -> unzip -> open folder -> open "bin" -> run minetest.exe
19:32 est31 those installers were one of the reasons why I switched to linux
19:32 est31 dont want to update 10 programs through 20 dialogs
19:32 tim_flatus You're assuming a certain level of intelligence / experience VanessaE
19:33 VanessaE tim_flatus: yeah, so?
19:33 tim_flatus So that's the bar for playing on one of your worlds
19:33 VanessaE when I was 11 we knew how to program a computer, for G*d sakes.
19:34 tim_flatus I'm not saying you're wrong.
19:34 VanessaE I'm not saying minetest doesn't need an installer of some kind (zeno suggested self-extracting 7zip I think)
19:34 Jordach BFD is worse :)
19:34 Jordach ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
19:34 tim_flatus I find dyslexic teenagers to be really useful testers, that's all
19:34 VanessaE but to cater to brain-dead-stupid ... ?  no.  just no.,
19:34 ElectronLibre tim_flatus, like monkeys punching keys on a keyboard?
19:35 tim_flatus My point is really that they're not all being lazy
19:35 est31 ElectronLibre, do rm CPack* && rm -r CMakeFiles
19:35 tim_flatus You set the bar where you want it
19:36 est31 that should remove the files with the old release
19:36 * Jordach attempts to join the only existing BFD server
19:37 ElectronLibre est31: I rm-ed CMakeFiles and CMakeCache, and did make clean. I'm gonna try this.
19:37 est31 its CPack
19:39 ElectronLibre VanessaE: I learnt C when I was 11 too, and I think you must agree it's kind of stupid to not teach basic things about computers, in a society were computers are everywhere, so users can't even undesrtand they need to unzip and open ./bin/minetest.exe.
19:40 rubenwardy I did installers for a while, but stopped when I moved to linux. I don't think the installer maker supported it
19:44 est31 alket, updated
19:44 alket nice
19:45 Krock http://xkcd.com/1488/
19:46 rubenwardy I was literally just reading that
19:46 rubenwardy Did you see VanessaE's link to xkcd?
19:47 Krock (no I didn't
19:47 ElectronLibre From #minetest-dev : <VanessaE> rubenwardy: http://xkcd.com/859/
19:49 sfan5 ElectronLibre: that is because the 0.4.12 tag is not part of the master branch
19:50 ElectronLibre So it's useless to compile and compile and compile etc... ok, thanks.
19:51 Jordach ಠ_ಠ http://a.pomf.se/mgxamx.png
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19:53 Jordach i'm pushing the limits of a 2005 laptop at this point :P
19:53 Krock Jordach, where's the font shadow?
19:53 Krock btw, I got a drawtime over 1000 :P
19:53 Jordach Krock, no idea :P
19:53 Krock (once upon a time
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19:57 Calinou VanessaE, .exe installer can be made with NSIS/InnoSetup/whatever
19:57 Calinou there are various free/libre Windows installer programs out there
19:57 VanessaE Calinou: good luck getting the core devs to use one.
19:57 Krock ^ even with 7zip (but that's a self-extracting rchive)
19:59 rubenwardy I used InnoSetup
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21:31 tim_flatus areas: how do you set an area by reference rather than punching nodes?
21:32 est31 /area_pos1 /area_pos2 or /area_pos x,y x,y
21:32 tim_flatus /area_pos thankyou
21:34 tim_flatus no that didn't work
21:35 tim_flatus maybe /area_pos set
21:36 tim_flatus hmm
21:39 tim_flatus /area_pos1/2 X Y Z - or so it sez
21:46 tim_flatus That did it
21:47 * tim_flatus tells himself to rtfm
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21:55 bas0801 VanessaE
21:55 bas0801 sorry trying some cammands in finch
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22:03 tim_flatus rubenwardy has gone - Calinou or Jordach if you're active - can you use groups in the trigger/node field or does it have to be an actual node name?
22:03 tim_flatus I'm guessing the latter
22:03 Jordach tim_flatus, abms right?
22:03 tim_flatus Soryy I am referring to awards mod
22:03 Jordach nodes are usable by name, groups might be as well
22:04 Jordach provided that group is like soil=1 where those nodes are soil and can be tilled
22:04 tim_flatus I suppose there's one way of finding out ;-)
22:04 Jordach !rtfm tim_flatus
22:04 MinetestBot tim_flatus, Someone thinks you should read the manual. The development wiki is at http://dev.minetest.net, the regular wiki is at http://wiki.minetest.net.
22:05 tim_flatus lol
22:05 * tim_flatus considers himself told
22:10 tim_flatus /give_award tim_flatus this_is_sad
22:16 tim_flatus TBH even skimming the code leaves me nonethewiser
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22:20 alpha_one_x86 http://pastebin.com/YLG1vfRU
22:20 alpha_one_x86 Under wine
22:21 tim_flatus Goutons voir oui oui oui ...
22:22 Calinou Windows XP is not supported
22:22 alpha_one_x86 Bref c'est surment un bug qui peu être corrigé coté minetest...
22:22 Calinou and I believe, so is Wine…
22:23 Calinou #minetest-fr for French
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22:26 alpha_one_x86 ok, thanks, I re
22:26 tim_flatus I have just created a "L'Jouer qui plantait des arbres" award. ;-)
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22:26 VanessaE scary thing is I actually managed to read that
22:26 VanessaE and I don't read french.
22:27 Wayward_One Language statistics for minetest according to GitHub:XML 59.7%?? When did that happen?
22:28 VanessaE O_o
22:29 VanessaE nevermind "when".... more like "how"?
22:29 Wayward_One exactly!
22:29 VanessaE what the f--
22:30 VanessaE https://github.com/minetest/minetest/search?l=xml
22:31 VanessaE well, whatever.
22:31 Wayward_One huh... funny how it's only showing up recently
22:34 Wayward_One just a day or two ago it showed up as mostly C++
22:34 * Wayward_One shrugs
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22:35 Jordach GitHub needs to stop stealing my w33d
22:37 Calinou Gitorious doesn't even steal marktraceur's
22:37 Jordach marktraceur just has YoloSwag
22:40 Wayward_One lol
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23:18 marktraceur I drive through Yolo, CA screaming "YOLOOOOOOOOOO"
23:18 * init hugs marktraceur
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23:30 Lugal There is no Minecart in Minetest?
23:31 shadowzone There is a mod
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23:33 Lugal are there minecarts planned for the standart game?
23:33 Lugal cause there are already rails
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23:55 bas080 Lugal: Try the mods
23:55 bas080 Lugal: Maybe you'll like them

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