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IRC log for #minetest, 2015-02-02

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Time Nick Message
00:00 Viper168 joined #minetest
00:01 est31 its the debian bugtracker, you wont submit bugs to that if you run openbsd
00:02 est31 i have a debian fork
00:02 Arch-TK Which version of openal and which version of minetest?
00:02 Arch-TK also, surely, you should send the bug report to upstream if it's an upstream issue
00:04 Arch-TK I'm running openal 1.16.0 with the cmake command line of cmake -D CMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX=/usr -D CMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Release ..
00:04 est31 version: see second line of the bug, and the launchpad bug
00:04 Arch-TK Minetest 0.4.11
00:04 Arch-TK So right, I'm running a newer version of openal than you and I'm not getting the problem.
00:05 Arch-TK The next task you should take up is figuring out if a bug like this was reported to upstream and see if it was fixed.
00:06 Arch-TK Because if it was fixed, then you shouldn't need to tell the debian packagers to wait for upstream to fix, you should tell them to update their damn packages, obviously, I'm not sure what the debian policy on this is, so their reason for being a version late might just be that they're not archlinux.
00:06 acerspyro Arch-TK: Debian is ALWAYS outdated
00:06 acerspyro Stability reasons
00:06 Arch-TK Exactly.
00:07 acerspyro I use a rolling release, stuff rarely comes in after 2-3 days.
00:07 est31 severe bugfixes are backported
00:07 acerspyro unless it's really unusable.
00:07 Arch-TK despite the fact that `openal-soft/1:1.15.1-5` is marked as `testing, unstable`
00:08 exio4 I use a rolling release debian
00:08 exio4 also, the mainstream binary rolling release I know is pretty sucky mostly for that reason
00:09 exio4 "stuff comes after 4 days, (it may break half the system, as long as you don't use the same environment as the one who packaged it)"
00:10 acerspyro No
00:10 acerspyro Nononono
00:10 acerspyro That's a trolling release
00:11 turtleman_ joined #minetest
00:11 exio4 I am talking about Archlinux
00:12 exio4 unless things have changed in the last years
00:12 Arch-TK If you think archlinux breaks that easily you clearly have never actually used archlinux and are talking completely out of your arse.
00:12 exio4 I have to say I haven't used it in the past two years
00:13 exio4 the year and half I used I only used it before it was pretty cool and I liked wasting time with it
00:13 Arch-TK I get odd package behaviour about once every 3 months where I have to pacman -U a previous version of a package to get things working, but nothing has ever broken "half the system" yet and it doesn't sound like it will.
00:14 exio4 I didn't mean half the system literally, but things like the graphics fucking up because untested combination of libraries with similar hardware to mine was my main problem
00:14 Arch-TK I've had problems with graphics but only on systems where someone didn't tell me they had changed the graphics card while I wasn't looking.
00:15 exio4 it was an intel igp, that's the fun part
00:15 Arch-TK I've never had problems with those, they seem to work best.
00:16 exio4 (was, because that laptop is now dead, well, if you find a charger, plug the harddisk, buy it ram, get an usb keyboard+mouse, it'll work)
00:16 exio4 how long have you been using it? that happened after 6-9 months using archlinux
00:16 Arch-TK I've been using it for a few months over a year now.
00:17 exio4 though; as I said, things may have changed, and now they don't push broken software without testing it in more than their own setups
00:17 Arch-TK And I've done some weird shit with this system.
00:17 Arch-TK In fact, in this very room, there are 3 machines running arch.
00:17 Arch-TK One is an arm single board computer (ODROID-C1), one is my dell optiplex server, and one is my desktop computer.
00:17 exio4 I would totally use it in a linux container / virtual machine
00:17 Arch-TK Then there's a laptop downstairs also running it.
00:18 exio4 a server? dude, you're insane :)
00:18 Arch-TK And the most problems I've ever had with any of these computers was sound with alsa, and that was easily fixed with switching to pulse
00:18 Arch-TK Why am I insane?
00:19 Arch-TK I run it on a VPS too. Sure things every now and again have a hitch, but it performs better than most distributions, pacman is a dream package manager, outperforming apt and yum in every regard.
00:19 exio4 I never heard of anyone using it in a server, and wasn't joking
00:19 exio4 comparing it to apt/yum is a weak argument
00:19 exio4 for a rolling release distro, I'd totally go with Gentoo
00:19 est31 joined #minetest
00:19 Arch-TK Well, I don't know why that is, pacman is a package manager, yum and apt are also package managers.
00:20 Arch-TK But with gentoo you need to compile and it takes too long if you want a computer to use now, I'd use gentoo on a separate machine if I wanted to see how many optimization flags I can throw at things before they explode.
00:20 est31 Arch-TK: tried git master from openal-soft, gives no sound
00:20 exio4 Arch-TK: too long?
00:20 Arch-TK too long what?
00:21 everamzah is it muted?
00:21 exio4 Arch-TK: that's a cool excuse if we were still in the 90s
00:21 est31 no, when I keep all settings, and try 0.15.0, everything works
00:21 Arch-TK exio4: I can compile the kernel in 10 minutes with my config, but have you ever actually compiled glibc and gcc etc...?
00:21 est31 gonna check whether there is some special debian patch involved...
00:21 exio4 Arch-TK: yes
00:22 Arch-TK exio4: That stuff doesn't take 10 minutes, it takes 20 or 30 or more.
00:22 Arch-TK And when you have to start compiling X and other such stuff it quickly turns into half a day of a machine whirring loudly at you.
00:22 exio4 Arch-TK: that stuff doesn't update every day, you're talking about worst-cases moments
00:23 est31 Arch-TK: you were right, it was debian not updating their stuff
00:23 exio4 Arch-TK: uh, my 1.6GHz intel atom needed one day and half for compiling the kernel + core system + xorg + qt4 + kde
00:23 Arch-TK Of course it doesn't update every day, but you still need to compile initially.
00:24 est31 exio4: most important for compiling is the HDD. SSDs are best for this task...
00:24 Arch-TK Most important for compiling is a compiler which is not gcc
00:24 est31 gonna bisect...
00:24 Arch-TK like clang
00:24 luizrpgluiz joined #minetest
00:24 Arch-TK you can't use it for the kernel though.
00:24 Arch-TK too many gcc specific things
00:25 Arch-TK I do like statement expressions however, they're quite nice.
00:25 luizrpgluiz hi
00:25 Arch-TK clang does allow them however.
00:25 Arch-TK Along with typeof() which is all I need to be happy.
00:25 exio4 est31: in that case, I don't really think the HDD would have helped that much
00:25 exio4 in this new setup, I bet the HDD is a bottleneck, though
00:25 exio4 I will be buying two SSDs in a few months
00:27 exio4 Arch-TK: well, it's a bit of a tradeoff, I won't tell you "compiling is faster than installing a binary!"
00:27 est31 Maaaaaan git bisect cannot work properly in this case.
00:27 est31 Some good revs are not ancestor of the bad rev.
00:28 est31 ah mistaken
00:28 Arch-TK That's probably because the good revisions are in the future not the past.
00:29 exio4 est31: what hardware do you run your setup on?
00:29 est31 amd
00:29 exio4 yeah, but, which CPU (model, at least?)
00:30 exio4 I've had lots of problem with 'newer' software using my 13+ year old computer, as most of the stuff assumed they could use SSE2 and other fancy things my old cpu didn't support :P
00:30 est31 http://pastebin.com/jM0pi8Ch
00:30 exio4 oh well, that one is pretty good
00:33 sparqz joined #minetest
00:34 alket joined #minetest
00:34 exio4 hmm
00:34 exio4 Version: 1:1.15.1-5
00:35 exio4 minetest's sound is working over here?
00:35 sparqz hmm not sure...
00:36 luizrpgluiz left #minetest
00:36 sparqz anyone familiar with seeds when making a world? i got stuck on an island with no trees lol
00:37 est31 I HATE compile errors in master
00:37 est31 and they even span a looong time
00:55 Arch-TK I don't get why people use the awful abomination that is pastebin.
00:56 Arch-TK There's http://ix.io/ http://sprunge.us/ http://ptpb.pw/ all which don't have ads, actually let you change the syntax highlighting afterwards, are curl/wget friendly, can be used to upload from the command line.
00:56 Arch-TK But no, people still love adbin the compilation of slow crud.
00:57 thaostra It works fine for temporal pastes. personally I prefer using gist.github.com because it has versioning, forking, and multiple file support
00:58 Arch-TK It's slow, full of ads, doesn't have versioning, looks ugly, adds whitespace, has annoying captchas and spam filters.
00:58 Arch-TK It's absolutely ridiculous.
00:59 Arch-TK Even http://bpaste.net/
00:59 Arch-TK that has expirations and syntax highlighting without ads, mess of copy paste, whitespace nonsense, captchas and spamfilters.
00:59 thaostra Well, pastebin can still do raw files so that users don't need to view all of that
01:00 Arch-TK your argument literally doesn't make sense, i've given you a tool which you've just said does what pastebin does well, without the rest of the nonsense, and then you've come to defend pastebin saying that it can do raw files which solves about 2 of the problems.
01:01 sparqz i'm a nub how do you zoom out in minetest?
01:01 sparqz since arch wants to be so far off topic :-p
01:03 acerspyro Zoom out? you can zoom in?
01:04 sparqz i meant change view like 3rd person
01:04 thaostra Hey, I said it works fine for temporal pastes. It's not the best, but it was certainly one of the first of its kind which is more than enough to give it the momentum it has today. As I said, I prefer gist.github, but for the majority of users they're content with pastebin's facilities. All those sites you recommended are good, but simply being better isn't the only reason to use something
01:04 Arch-TK sparqz: seeds are for the random generator and they're unlikely to give any meaningful result based on any meaningful rule, random number generators work off of chaos theory for a reason.
01:04 Arch-TK sparqz: I don't think there is third person view in minetest
01:04 sparqz so i was just unlucky in that map then
01:04 exio4 you can press f5, f6 or f7
01:04 sparqz ok tanks arch back to complaining about pastebin :-D
01:04 Player_2 joined #minetest
01:04 exio4 and you'll get third person view
01:04 exio4 I don't remember the keybind :D
01:05 exio4 I am being really helpful, I know
01:05 sparqz it's none of those lol
01:06 exio4 but it's mostly a "there is a third person view somewhere there"
01:06 exio4 F7 for me
01:06 exio4 sparqz: ^
01:06 exio4 which MT version are you running?
01:06 Arch-TK F7 here. Although I'm sure in 0.4.10 this wasn't possible.
01:07 sparqz hmm ya it's supposed to be f7 hmm i'm on 4.9
01:07 exio4 sparqz: 0.4.9, and you should be using a newer version
01:07 Arch-TK recompile/update minetest
01:07 sparqz i just downloaded it the other day
01:07 exio4 Arch-TK: I think 0.4.10 had it?
01:08 Arch-TK maybe it did.
01:08 sparqz hmm so apt-get says i have up to date..
01:09 exio4 what distro are you using? *buntu, debian, linux mint?
01:09 est31 hehe yet another one facing the problem that their distro aint rollin'
01:09 sparqz mint
01:09 Arch-TK so basically, your distribution is slow and boring.
01:10 est31 why slow
01:10 Arch-TK I mean slow in the sense of response time to updates.
01:10 Arch-TK and boring in the sense that it doesn't take risks
01:10 est31 and "boring" is just another way to express "stable"
01:10 exio4 sparqz: well, I think the PPA may be what you want? (the 'best' way is compiling it yourself, which is pretty easy)
01:10 Arch-TK stable is boring, it's also a misnomer.
01:10 acerspyro Nothing is stable.
01:11 thaostra Add the minetest dev's PPA; it'll have the latest stable release
01:11 Arch-TK Arch packages go through testing before they fall into the repositories.
01:11 acerspyro Nothing is tested intensively.
01:11 Arch-TK They're essentially stable.
01:11 sparqz yeah i'm looking for it
01:11 thaostra https://launchpad.net/~minete​stdevs/+archive/ubuntu/stable
01:11 Arch-TK As stable as these other distros.
01:11 est31 Arch-TK: you are testing the packages I get
01:11 est31 thank you for that
01:11 Arch-TK Of course.
01:11 thaostra You're welcome
01:11 exio4 Arch-TK: I don't know if you are being sarcastic or not
01:11 Arch-TK est31: Expect rough times with opensmtpd and gnupg
01:12 est31 why
01:12 exio4 the problems aren't the package themselves, but the reverse dependencies on that package, which may break down in certain setups
01:12 exio4 in *
01:12 Arch-TK est31: opensmtpd 5.4.4p1 doesn't like me
01:13 Arch-TK est31: gnupg changed things which seem to have broken old keyrings for some people, but this is easily fixed.
01:13 exio4 we just need a new big release of something 8)
01:13 acerspyro complete rewrite, this code is doomed :D
01:13 thaostra I use Ubuntu because I prefer stability, so PPAs allow me to pick whatever packages I want to keep up to date
01:13 exio4 2 weeks where everything is fucked up in rolling releases distros a la arch
01:13 est31 I have neither one. no smtp as I haven't found a great dns name yet, and no gnupg as I'm lazy :P
01:13 Arch-TK "I prefer stability" "ubuntu"
01:13 sparqz ok added the ppa
01:13 Arch-TK welp, you're fucked.
01:13 acerspyro [20:13] <Arch-TK> "I prefer stability" "ubuntu"
01:14 acerspyro Ha.
01:14 acerspyro lol.
01:14 acerspyro Haha.
01:14 acerspyro HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
01:14 thaostra Arch-TK, Uptime currently, 127 days
01:14 sparqz I like mint because i'm trying to convert my wife and kid
01:14 acerspyro THESE GUYS IMPLEMENT THEIR OWN BUGS ON PURPOSE TO FUCK WITH YOU
01:14 acerspyro LOLOLOLOLOLOL
01:14 sparqz canonical?
01:14 acerspyro yes
01:14 exio4 I thought I was being childish in this channel
01:15 sparqz Is slackware still updated?
01:15 exio4 apparently I wasn't
01:15 exio4 sparqz: yes?
01:15 Arch-TK I think there's a difference between childish and accepting of the facts.
01:15 sparqz their website looks pretty much same as 8 years ago when i was using it
01:15 acerspyro I tried the FGLRX drivers. Unusable. maximized windows get offset by 10 px to the left for some reason, AND NOONE NOTICED THAT, even tho it happens on all ATI GPUs running on 14.10
01:15 acerspyro +woth FGLRX
01:15 acerspyro with*
01:15 thaostra >Using Catalyst at all
01:16 acerspyro thaostra: Still, noone noticed it
01:16 thaostra Get with the times, the Radeon is pretty good now
01:16 thaostra * Radeon driver
01:16 acerspyro Depends
01:16 acerspyro It is excellent, yes
01:16 acerspyro But the version that's on Ubuntu was, idk, meh.
01:16 exio4 I actually just use debian stable as main host because I don't want to keep mantaining it
01:16 thaostra Desktop responsiveness, system integration, stability
01:17 exio4 it's just, it's working, let's not touch it!
01:17 Arch-TK That's why I use arch.
01:17 acerspyro I just use OpenSUSE.
01:17 acerspyro rolling release
01:17 Arch-TK Because I only need to type pacman -Syu every few days.
01:17 acerspyro I only need to sudo zypper up every few days
01:17 Arch-TK And the majority of the time that works for months.
01:17 exio4 "majority of the time"
01:17 acerspyro And all the time that works for months
01:17 exio4 you've said it dude
01:17 Arch-TK Until some weird thing happens and things break for the 5 minutes while i pacman -Su
01:18 thaostra Majority of the time isn't good enough for me
01:18 Arch-TK exio4: Yes, please don't tell me that your debian box will work forever and ever.
01:18 Arch-TK Because you would be lying.
01:18 acerspyro Until you go insane and start deleting random files because you went insane.
01:18 acerspyro exio4: MSDOS works
01:18 acerspyro Use it
01:18 thaostra acerspyro, Slackware is that way ->
01:18 exio4 Arch-TK: apt-get update && apt-get upgrade never broke anything for me in my debian stable 8)
01:18 * chrisf comes back from lunch and you're all still waving around your distros. time to zypper up indeed...
01:19 exio4 (unless I was changing betwen versions, which pretty much has a dumb-proof "things that may stop working")
01:19 Arch-TK thaostra: If "the majority of the time" is works for a year until a small hitch isn't good enough, then I don't know what is.
01:19 acerspyro Arch-TK: stubbornness.
01:19 Arch-TK exio4: but I bet it took two weeks for apt's slow arse to move.
01:19 exio4 Arch-TK: uh?
01:19 Arch-TK I literally can't stand how slow apt is.
01:19 Arch-TK Being used to pacman.
01:19 acerspyro lol
01:19 exio4 stop moving the goalpost
01:20 exio4 but well, k
01:20 acerspyro Arch-TK: I used to be using Arch
01:20 thaostra Arch-TK> exio4: but I bet it took two weeks for apt's slow arse to move. <- Apt is slow? News to me. Then again, I use SSDs for everything
01:20 acerspyro Until I broke it.
01:20 acerspyro :D
01:20 acerspyro BRILLIANT GUY RIGHT HERE
01:20 acerspyro <---
01:20 Arch-TK thaostra: You should try pacman and tell me that apt is fast.
01:20 exio4 Arch-TK: pacman is fast because it's doing nothing
01:20 est31 ! ! ! F L L A A A M M M E E E W W W A A A R R R ! ! !
01:20 thaostra Nah, I prefer to not babysit my distros
01:20 exio4 that too
01:20 chrisf how about that mt
01:20 exio4 ArchLinux is a bit like a game
01:20 exio4 you have to play it
01:20 Arch-TK exio4: What exactly does pacman not do that apt does?
01:21 exio4 Arch-TK: I'd say more than pacman and apt, it's the scripts
01:21 exio4 Debian's "post/pre" scripts do way more
01:21 Arch-TK Right...
01:21 Arch-TK Like what.
01:21 * acerspyro burns est31 to dust and puts his fumes into a mason jar, which he then insets into a soccer ball and kicks it as far as he can. Then acerspyro gets some dogs to find the jar back, opens up the jar and lets the dogs eat the fumes. He them proceeds to washing the jar with bleach.
01:21 Arch-TK And in any case, you're still making no sense, having to fix one small problem once a year isn't exactly babysitting, it's better than most maintenance on anything else.
01:22 exio4 Arch-TK: "one small problem once a year" isn't quite right
01:22 thaostra Don't get me wrong, Arch's design is neat and the wiki is fantastic, but I use Debian-based distros because I like my OS to get out of the way when I just want to get work done
01:22 Arch-TK Especially when the fix involves spending 5 minutes.
01:22 Arch-TK exio4: Have you used arch recently?
01:22 Arch-TK No?
01:22 exio4 I already told you I haven't used it (seriously) in the past years
01:22 * est31 hasnt started http://webchat.oftc.net/?nick=est31&a​mp;channels=%23debian-bugs&amp;uio=d4
01:22 Arch-TK Well then stop making moot points based on old data.
01:22 est31 dammit
01:22 acerspyro exio4: of course, it's like meat
01:22 est31 ignore ^
01:23 acerspyro If you freeze it, nothing happens.
01:23 exio4 when I used it I got told the same things
01:23 turtleman_ joined #minetest
01:23 * est31 hasnt started the flamewar.
01:23 exio4 and then stuff broke and was "fk them, they were right"
01:23 thaostra The last time I tried Arch, they got rid of their TUI installer and instead made it purely command line with a text file that's a copy of the instructions on the wiki. Is it still like that?
01:23 acerspyro Nope, but I ended a yet-to-start flamewar, setting the endpoint before its start point.
01:23 acerspyro thaostra: same here
01:23 Arch-TK look, this is getting seriously silly, you're both making claims about how in the way and unstable arch is, without actually any backup of any sort.
01:24 chrisf thaostra: yes, it is still like that.
01:24 acerspyro Arch-TK: I didn't. I like Arch. I broke it myself, I'm an idiot. :)
01:24 exio4 Arch-TK: you're not giving any proof either
01:24 Arch-TK acerspyro is the only other person here who recently used it
01:24 est31 acerspyro: you are participating in the flamewar
01:24 Arch-TK Of course arch needs someone competent maintaining it, but it doesn't require anywhere near enough maintenance to call it babysitting.
01:24 acerspyro Not really. I already said what I had to say.
01:25 chrisf Arch-TK: i use it on all my dev boxes
01:25 Arch-TK I'm not saying it's a distribution for people who don't know what they're doing and is perfect for noobs.
01:25 exio4 are you telling us you're THE sysadmin now? ;)
01:25 Arch-TK I'm saying that if you know what you're doing, and you're competent enough to set it up, it runs until you put a brick wall in front of it yourself.
01:25 exio4 I tell you, the idea is that it needs you to think too much about useless things
01:25 exio4 I liked it as a desktop toy OS
01:25 * acerspyro considers Debian to be a server OS
01:25 Arch-TK I don't have to think about any useless things when I'm doing things on it.
01:26 exio4 never going to use it in a server, because a rolling release distro there doesn't make sense
01:26 acerspyro 3outdated5me
01:26 Arch-TK Once again, you're talking out of your arse, arch now is not arch two years ago.
01:26 exio4 I know
01:26 exio4 your arguments are pretty much "well, I haven't experienced your problem so you must be wrong" though
01:27 exio4 I haven't seen any link to a post about changes in the testing procedures or anything
01:27 exio4 have you got any?
01:27 Arch-TK It's not a server distro for people who want something to run forever with no failure, but there are distros specifically for that job, however, for someone who wants a distribution which lets them mould it to any shape without any predefined shape, arch is perfect.
01:27 exio4 arch actually fails at that
01:27 Arch-TK exio4: the burden of proof rests on you by definition.
01:27 acerspyro exio4: No, wrong, you fail to read the instructions.
01:27 Arch-TK You're the one trying to say that there is a problem.
01:27 acerspyro This is most people's problem.
01:28 thaostra exio4, Or rather, doesn't understand where we're coming from. When I was younger Arch would've been perfect for me, but now I prefer a distro that focuses on not breaking things with each update because I don't like wasting my time simply fixing my OS
01:28 Arch-TK *facepalm*
01:28 acerspyro Good thing on OpenSUSE is
01:28 sparqz I thought bout trying suse
01:28 exio4 acerspyro: I've read it, and when stuff broke it wasn't in any wiki, because nobody using some kind of similar setup did anything about it
01:28 acerspyro If you do zypper up, nothing will break
01:28 Arch-TK This is getting quite honestly ridiculous, I've seen more breakage from updates on debian and ubuntu than I've ever seen from arch.
01:29 acerspyro It will only risk breaking if you do zypper dup
01:29 thaostra We clearly have different experiences then
01:29 Arch-TK by default, because of the way that arch is tested, there is little chance than any update is ever going to break any system completely.
01:29 Arch-TK And the main change in the testing procedures is that there are simply more people testing.
01:30 exio4 Arch-TK: if we're talking about fallacies, I have to say you were doing a tu quoque, and fallacy fallacy
01:30 Arch-TK I never mentioned fallacies.
01:30 exio4 ( relevant comic, http://existentialcomics.com/comic/9 )
01:30 exio4 Arch-TK: "burden of proof" is a fallacy
01:31 Arch-TK no it's not
01:32 exio4 how old are you btw?
01:32 Arch-TK The burden of proof is your obligation to provide sufficient evidence and proof of your beliefs on a position.
01:32 Arch-TK It is not a fallacy.
01:32 Arch-TK You clearly have no idea what a fallacy is.
01:32 exio4 how busy you are in real life may explain
01:33 exio4 Arch-TK: ad hominem!
01:33 exio4 how busy you are in real life may explain it *
01:33 exio4 Arch-TK: well, you did a fallacy fallacy though
01:34 Arch-TK No, I simply told you that you asking me for proof of arch working is nonsensical since you made the claim that it doesn't without any actual relevant proof from recent experience.
01:34 Arch-TK A fallacy fallacy would be me telling your argument is not correct because you don't provide relevant proof, I've simply not done that at any point.
01:35 est31 YEAH I HAVE FOUND THE FIXING COMMIT: 564a18 Avoid an underflow in the SSE mixers if BufferSize is less than 4
01:35 Arch-TK The most I did was discredit your argument because of your blatant lack of regard for actually taking this argument forward by actually possibly maybe arguing.
01:35 Arch-TK est31: congratulations.
01:35 exio4 pretty much you said my argument was false because I didn't give any proofs
01:36 Arch-TK No, I said that you shouldn't be asking me for proof, I should be asking you for proof.
01:36 Arch-TK That's exactly not saying that your argument is false because you didn't give any proof.
01:36 exio4 well
01:36 Arch-TK and in fact, not giving any proof in any amount of time, doesn't simply make your argument false, it makes your argument a waste of time.
01:36 Arch-TK since not giving proof is not a falacy
01:36 Arch-TK it's just failing to argue
01:37 Arch-TK fallacy*
01:37 exio4 yup
01:37 Arch-TK Now once again, for the past year, I've not had any major outstanding problems on the 5 machine I run arch on, I've given you examples of small problems I've had.
01:37 Arch-TK I've given my side of the argument, I can't give you proof of no problems because that's not something which can be proved.
01:38 Arch-TK You have to give me proof that archlinux, under normal use, constantly breaks.
01:38 sparqz so do you guys always fight like this?
01:38 Arch-TK My use is not normal use, it does not constantly break.
01:38 exio4 you're the first archlinux I hear that doesn't accept his distro isn't stable, because like, it's changing every week, and it's that goal
01:38 sparqz one of you prefers arch...the other not get over it
01:38 exio4 s/archlinux/& user/
01:38 acerspyro I just don't like Ubuntu
01:38 Arch-TK exio4: It's not stable, but it definitely _does not break every update_
01:38 exio4 Archlinux IS meant to be like that
01:38 Arch-TK it rarely breaks
01:38 sparqz so about that minetest.....
01:38 Arch-TK in fact, despite the fact that it's "unstable" it's surprisingly stable.
01:39 acerspyro "unstable" is just to be safe from people like exio4
01:39 exio4 dat etilist user
01:39 exio4 I can understand you though, I was like that 3~ years ago
01:39 exio4 :P so dw
01:40 exio4 Arch-TK: saying Archlinux doesn't need to be taken care of in relation to a distro that doesn't change, is a bit like arguing how red can blue be
01:41 Arch-TK Define "taken care of"
01:42 exio4 in this case, needing to re-configure things, changing configs that were working before, etc, remember, for a single home server, it doesn't really matter, while managing more than a few servers, having stuff that you know you can just upgrade and have previous configs working is a really cool thing
01:42 exio4 yeah, Archlinux is _meant_ to be like that
01:42 exio4 that is _why_ it doesn't make sense to use in those environments
01:43 Arch-TK Name a distribution out there which you can safely keep running non stop for a year without a single bit of user input, and I'll call you a liar. Archlinux isn't this, but any distribution requires some user input, some require less than others, archlinux doesn't require very much when you set it up to work. There will be a time when some package breaks something and you'll have to intervene, and you might
01:43 Arch-TK not have to do that on any other distribution, but then there will be a time when there's a CVE regarding software running on your machine and you WILL have to intervene, and so far, the amount of times I've had to intervene due to CVEs has been more than the amount of times I've had to intervene because of broken packages.
01:43 acerspyro Arch-TK: Any distro
01:43 acerspyro Just leave the computer shut down
01:44 exio4 Arch-TK: debian stable, I bet you can make it auto-upgrade on cron 8)
01:44 Arch-TK I've not had to reconfigure anything unless I wanted to change something so far...
01:44 Arch-TK You can make arch auto-upgrade on a systemd timer / cron
01:44 exio4 dat tautology, "unless I am using default, I haven't used defaults"
01:44 exio4 uh, broken english
01:44 exio4 re-phrase that until it makes sense
01:45 Arch-TK exio4: Right, you're claiming that on a working config I'll have to change things every now and again.
01:45 Arch-TK I've not had to do that.
01:45 Arch-TK I've only ever had to do that when I've personally had a reason to want something to work differently.
01:45 Arch-TK changing a config and wanting to change something are two different things.
01:45 Arch-TK when you want to change something, you change a config.
01:46 exio4 when you upgrade that package, you probably need to check what changed, because stuff changes over time
01:46 thaostra Arch-TK, You're talking about robustness. Stability isn't about whether software breaks, rather it's that APIs and ABIs will have assurances that they won't break. The kernel is very stable because the developers do what they can to not break userspace compatibility, so I can reliably swap kernels and not experience regressions. All of the other components however don't follow this strict practice, even glibc which is the most
01:46 thaostra important core library in the system, so distros target specific versions with each release because otherwise workflows WILL break left and right and developers will need to repackage. Arch has a mindset of being on the bleeding edge, and it's great at it, but other distros are oriented around keeping things the same because things not breaking is really nice in of itself.
01:46 Arch-TK yes, and it would on your auto-upgrade distro too... eventually.
01:46 exio4 unless you just leave like that and it bites you after three upgrades, because you setting was using deprecated stuff
01:46 Arch-TK unless you're trying to tell me that they roll back changes which could change configs.
01:46 Arch-TK or automatically fix your configs for you.
01:46 Arch-TK but once again, I've not experienced any updates that needed a config change.
01:47 exio4 have a distro version where the package only gets security updates, and you won't need to change the config
01:47 Arch-TK not to say that it's not possible of course
01:47 Arch-TK but that doesn't prevent your distro's configs from changing either.
01:47 acerspyro Arch-TK: ever tried openSUSE? just like that
01:47 exio4 I don't understand what you are talking about
01:48 Arch-TK thaostra: But none of the archlinux packages are allowed to break by a major change like that.
01:48 exio4 they still change
01:48 Arch-TK thaostra: If archlinux had a package which broke other packages because of changes within the interfaces of that package
01:48 Arch-TK then there would be outrage
01:48 Arch-TK This is why arch has maintainers, so that they know what they're doing.
01:50 exio4 sure
01:50 thaostra Arch-TK, Desktops like Gnome and KDE break things all the time with each release.
01:50 Arch-TK You're simply over-exaggerating how unstable and in the way arch is, it's simply not, I am by no means the average user and by no means do I expect everything to always works, but so far, everything has worked almost 100% of the time, and the few times something broke, it has been an easy fix.
01:50 acerspyro thaostra: But, but...
01:50 acerspyro WHY?????????????
01:50 Arch-TK thaostra: yes...
01:50 Arch-TK thaostra: But that doesn't break arch...
01:50 exio4 I use a rolling release distro for my desktop, and I "deal" with configuration changes
01:51 Arch-TK thaostra: Because arch doesn't throw broken stuff in the repositories.
01:51 Arch-TK obviously broken (not slightly broken)
01:51 acerspyro Arch-TK: I remember, before I switched from Arch, my KDE settings would reset everytime I logged out. Everything was owned by me, readable and writable and, if needed, executable...
01:51 Arch-TK acerspyro: I think you did something very wrong there.
01:51 thaostra Arch-TK, Again, you're confusing robustness with stability. The users workflow breaks. Extensions break, and new UI changes are made
01:52 acerspyro I'm a bit of a stuntman
01:52 acerspyro idk wtf I did :D
01:52 Arch-TK I wouldn't consider UI changes "stability"
01:52 Arch-TK extensions don't break unless they're outside the repositories, in which case, it's not arch's problem, "user workflow breaks" in what way?
01:52 acerspyro Arch-TK: Nope, but it still needs to stay usable.
01:52 thaostra Then you need to rethink what it means to be stable
01:52 acerspyro workflow-side
01:53 thaostra Do you consider a library that changes its interface with each update stable?
01:53 Arch-TK Of course not, but then arch doesn't shove that library into an environment of packages which don't work with it.
01:53 Arch-TK If packages depend on that package, it waits for those packages to update to use the new interface.
01:54 thaostra Okay, so why is a user interface any different? It's how a user is able to get something meaningful from their computer usage, like calling a library to return something meaningful
01:54 Arch-TK If your system is using only repository packages, and even aur packages, it is very unlikely to break from an update.
01:54 Arch-TK a user interface doesn't require rewriting code
01:55 Arch-TK it just requires a user, a human being, to adapt
01:55 exio4 I remember the python -> python3 change
01:55 Arch-TK that's nowhere near as difficult as having to rewrite code which uses an interface
01:55 Arch-TK humans are designed to change
01:55 exio4 defaulting /usr/bin/python to py3 instead of py2
01:55 exio4 half of aur broke down, some few packages in the main repository took a little bit to upgrade too
01:56 exio4 ('half' is a big number there, not literally half)
01:56 Arch-TK exio4: Arch is also not windows, which is why software which assumed /usr/bin/python was python2 simply weren't doing it right
01:56 Arch-TK also, aur packages are simply not official.
01:56 thaostra Arch-TK> it just requires a user, a human being, to adapt <- It requires the user to adapt if the user doesn't have a choice. Lots of people prefer using what they're familiar with, because having to relearn workflows with a new release is a pain in the ass
01:56 exio4 don't move the goalpost again
01:56 Arch-TK If the aur package is packaging software in the documented standard way, and the software isn't written by lazy monkeys, then things will most likely work.
01:57 Arch-TK I'm not moving any goalposts, the AUR is _not_ official.
01:57 Arch-TK That's simply it.
01:57 exio4 Arch-TK: "humans are designed to change", that opinion changes when working with more than a few servers, where spending 10 minutes with every one of them wastes 4 hours
01:58 Arch-TK exio4: If you actually work with servers you would know that once you have a solution for one, you can easily package it into a fix for all.
01:58 exio4 why did I even need to spend time with those, though
01:58 Arch-TK I highly doubt you go through the entire debugging process on 20 machines every time if you know what the problem is once.
01:58 Arch-TK because you've decided that you're maintaining servers.
01:59 exio4 also, most solutions aren't just a script, different servers have different configs
01:59 Arch-TK I already told you that arch is not for servers.
01:59 exio4 well, I started this argument when you said you were using Archlinux in your server and I said it was insane
01:59 exio4 so I think I am done
01:59 Arch-TK You're arguing against something I never said. I explicitly said that arch isn't stable, but is surprisingly stable despite that.
02:00 Trixar_za What does the creative priv do?
02:00 Arch-TK That wasn't queue to assume that I meant: "Use arch for your high stability applications."
02:00 Arch-TK exio4: I'm using it on _my_ _personal_ _server_
02:00 Arch-TK for _my_ _personal_ _usage_
02:00 Arch-TK in a _non_ _high_ _stability_ _requiring_ situation
02:00 thaostra A grand total of _one_ server
02:01 Arch-TK two, in fact.
02:01 thaostra _two_ servers
02:01 Arch-TK yes _two_
02:01 Arch-TK maybe we need __**two**__
02:01 Trixar_za and _your_ and idiot that _uses_ _these_ _too much_
02:01 Trixar_za an*
02:01 Arch-TK "your and idiot"
02:01 Trixar_za IRC isn't Markdown
02:02 Arch-TK markdown is designed for allowing text to be easily readable both in plain text format and processed html format
02:02 Arch-TK that means that markdown is perfect for irc
02:02 exio4 uh, why not use mirc colors?
02:03 Trixar_za or you know, actual mIRC codes
02:03 exio4 I'd argue that 4Something is stable
02:03 Trixar_za like this
02:03 Arch-TK Because it takes effort.
02:03 exio4 I'd guess your IRC client has got a keybind for it
02:03 Arch-TK It does.
02:03 Trixar_za Yeah, pressing Ctrl+B and Ctrl+K is really less work than typing extra _ and *
02:04 Arch-TK Trixar_za: there are no such keybindings on weechat.
02:04 exio4 ctrl-c
02:04 Arch-TK Yes.
02:04 exio4 ctrl-b, etc
02:04 Arch-TK And then a colour code
02:04 Arch-TK once again, more effort
02:04 exio4 I am using weechat
02:04 Arch-TK ctrl-b doesn't work
02:04 Arch-TK asd
02:04 exio4 Arch-TK: add replacements
02:04 Arch-TK didn't work
02:04 Arch-TK Still effort.
02:04 exio4 Arch-TK: works for me
02:05 Arch-TK You're using the development version of weechat... and you're complaining about stability.
02:06 exio4 ad hominem 8)
02:06 Arch-TK Sure... Sure... I'll install the dev version too.
02:06 Arch-TK That's not ad hominem.
02:06 exio4 also, this is a container, inside a debian stable, with the unstable bits of my desktop
02:07 exio4 Trixar_za: I haven't heard of a 'creative' priv
02:07 Arch-TK So, I temporarily switched over to the dev version from my friend's repository.
02:07 Arch-TK And it didn't like my config.
02:08 exio4 those keybinds have been in weechat for a long time
02:08 Arch-TK Right...
02:08 Trixar_za exio4: Me too. But apparently it's new since I just gave somebody all and 'creative' was one of them.
02:08 exio4 I remember using it with 0.3.2, if my memory doesn't fail
02:08 Arch-TK I'm using 1.1.1 and they definitely don't work.
02:08 exio4 Trixar_za: maybe a mod? :/
02:08 Trixar_za Could be
02:08 exio4 Arch-TK: /key missing ?
02:09 Arch-TK Nope.
02:09 Trixar_za Might depend on the terminal he's using
02:09 Arch-TK I'm using termite.
02:09 exio4 ah, right
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02:11 Arch-TK In any case, using -c too much on the channels I frequent is generally frowned upon.
02:12 Arch-TK So I'm not about to bolding all my text
02:12 acerspyro Wut
02:12 Arch-TK So I am not about to gobolding all my text
02:12 exio4 well, this channel hasn't got +c, so you should adapt to this channel flags
02:12 Arch-TK no +c = -c
02:13 Arch-TK #archlinux also doesn't have +c
02:13 exio4 yes, I know -+c is -cc
02:13 exio4 yes, I know -+c is -c
02:13 Arch-TK if I went around with bold in there, I would get shouted at.
02:13 Arch-TK But, in any case, It's now 2am
02:13 exio4 that maybe a good hint you're abusing it
02:13 Arch-TK I'm going.
02:13 exio4 see you.
02:14 Trixar_za You'd get shouted at for using Markdown too
02:14 Arch-TK yes, that's what I said, I wouldn't want to be using it in there, which is why I use markdown.
02:14 Arch-TK Trixar_za: By a single person who can't spell "you're" correctly.
02:14 Arch-TK :)
02:14 Arch-TK exio4: THAT is ad hominem
02:14 Trixar_za It's 4am
02:14 exio4 yes Arch-TK
02:14 Trixar_za I dare you to do better at 4am with 4 hours of sleep :P
02:14 exio4 I know you know that we know and something like that
02:15 exio4 Trixar_za: archlinux didn't let you sleep? don't worry
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03:05 est31 cool there is actually something like do{ } while in lua
03:12 VanessaE while (foo); do bar; baz; blah; end  :)
03:13 VanessaE more or less the same as in bashj
03:13 VanessaE -j
03:17 exio4 recursion to the rescue
03:21 est31 VanessaE: no its actual almost the same https://github.com/minetest-technic/technic/bl​ob/d9bf9830b0d72837000e8a5dbf05536881eab42b/te​chnic/machines/switching_station.lua#L158-162
03:21 est31 http://www.lua.org/pil/4.3.3.html
03:23 VanessaE oh I forgot about that way of doing it
03:33 gv1222 patriots
03:35 VanessaE sucks to be a seahawks fan I guess
03:35 VanessaE (idc about football, least of all the superbowl :P )
03:39 thaostra I'm just content that the Pats won
03:42 est31 In lua, all indexes begin with 1 right?
03:43 VanessaE yes
03:43 VanessaE well, by default
03:43 VanessaE but you can explicitly set something to 0 also
03:44 est31 is it a problem when my code assumes 1 based indexes for technic mod?
03:44 VanessaE no
03:44 VanessaE no one's gonna set a 0 index unless there's a particularly good reason for it
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05:13 est31 can I specify metadata directly in the call to minetest.place_node, or do I have to get the metadata for that node first?
05:18 sofar VanessaE: when I ported my plugin over, I had the hardest time to make the modulus math work for 1-based arrays .... arrays should just start at zero (gave up and based it to zero in the end)
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06:19 olddog60 anyone know if the master server list isn't updating properly?
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06:40 MinetestBot [git] kwolekr -> minetest/minetest: Create minidump on fatal Win32 exceptions 43f1022 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/43f102271dd3dc64b167ee305be5061976bd41d6 (2015-02-02T01:39:17-05:00)
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08:16 MinetestBot [git] kwolekr -> minetest/minetest: Fix some MSVC-specific warnings and add debug path as an MSVC directory 0118c11 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/0118c111e8f12602b03cee8deb4c86f9b9e28cf3 (2015-02-02T02:01:13-05:00)
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09:09 Krock moin
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09:20 VanessaE hi
09:21 Krock hi
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10:09 redstonecraftpl hi
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10:56 Caleneledh When you register an ore, is there a way to have mapgen only create it near specifc nodes?
10:59 Krock nope
10:59 Krock you only can specify in which nodes it should generate
10:59 Krock that's mostly default:stone
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12:14 Caleneledh Hmm, that could still work.  /quit
12:15 Caleneledh oops.
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14:05 vitaminx hi everyone, does anyone experienced that an account got hacked on his server? i mean really hacked, not with social engineering
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14:09 Krock vitaminx, nope
14:14 shadowzone vitaminx, you mean code hacked?
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14:31 vitaminx shadowzone: i mean like someone is using a modified client to access user passwords
14:31 vitaminx i have some strange activity going on on my server, and it doesnt look like social engineering but real hacking to me
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14:44 twoelk some unofficial mobile clients where able to cheat in strange ways like having privs they should not ... or so the legend goes
14:48 vitaminx twoelk: yes, i read about that - but mine is different
14:49 vitaminx people were apparently retreiving passwords of account of other players with a modified client - they were talking about it in PM
14:49 vitaminx they mentioned a D.T.C. client
14:50 vitaminx but googling it reveals nothing
14:50 vitaminx and for me it seems strange that passwords or password hashes would ever been send or stored on the client
14:51 vitaminx is there someone here who knows how minetest authenticates? i could give more details
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14:56 vitaminx ok i try in #minetest-dev
14:57 oleastre If people are using an unsafe client (evil modified one) this one cans do whatever it wants with the entered password/hash (store, or send them anywhere)
14:57 oleastre Otherwise, there is also a possible attack: if you use the same login/password on every servers, one server admin can reuse your password hash on another server with a modified client.
14:57 oleastre see https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.p​hp?f=5&amp;t=10960&amp;hilit=password
15:00 Krock an additional thing would be to use the account creation time to has the password a 2nd time
15:01 Krock this prevents from server admins who abouse their auth.txt
15:01 Krock *abuse
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15:01 vitaminx Krock: sorry I didn't get what you mean :P
15:01 Krock just a mindblow. what do you think about it, oleastre?
15:02 Krock vitaminx, you send a hashed password to the server and the server re-hashes it with the account creation time as salt
15:02 Krock double hash
15:04 Krock no-one signs up at the same time on several servers
15:05 shadowzone So, should I be chaging my passwords?
15:06 vitaminx i think its a good idea to have different passwords per server
15:06 shadowzone Okay, so I /should/ be safe?
15:07 shadowzone As I moderate practically every server out there.
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15:07 oleastre Krock: the problem is that if some one modify it's server to not do that double hash, you get the same problem.
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15:08 vitaminx i'll poke a bit around in #minetest-dev, i'll let you know if there's smth. important
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15:08 Krock oleastre, hmm yes
15:09 oleastre The client should send different hash per server. But, as discussed on the forum, the problem is to generate in a consistent way a different salt per server.
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15:16 oleastre Thinking about this, I just had an idea... will post it on the forum :)
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17:38 rubenwardy Hi all!
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17:39 rubenwardy I'd like people to test the open/save file dialogs in https://github.com/rubenwa​rdy/NodeBoxEditor/tree/dev
17:39 rubenwardy I can't supply a windows build, though
17:40 rubenwardy (NBE now uses native file browser dialogs)
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17:48 PilzAdam rubenwardy, why does it work with Irrlicht 1.7.2?
17:48 PilzAdam docs say it doesn't, exe says it does
17:48 rubenwardy Huh?
17:49 rubenwardy You can use Irrlicht 1.7.2, but some features are disabled
17:49 PilzAdam ah
17:49 rubenwardy ie: exporting to text area
17:49 rubenwardy Although I disabled that in dev, and will re add latter.
17:50 PilzAdam file save dialog works for KDE
17:50 rubenwardy Yay
17:52 rubenwardy I'm going to experiment with using the Blender API to combine the boxes into a single mesh when exporting.
17:52 rubenwardy (optionally)
17:57 Kalabasa Has anyone ever used the bone functions of ObjectRef?
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18:09 Caleneledh ERROR[ServerThread]: suspiciously large amount of objects detected.   Can lava cause that error, if there is too much of it?
18:10 rubenwardy No, lava isn't an object
18:10 sfan5 no
18:10 rubenwardy You are looking at dropped items or mobs
18:10 Caleneledh Hmm, then that shouldn't be possible in the world I in.  I have no mobs enable, and haven't dropped any items.
18:12 twoelk no technic/tubes/windmills or similar?
18:12 twoelk or bees
18:13 Caleneledh nope, the only mods enabled are default, creative and my own mod I'm working on.  That doesn't create any objects.
18:15 VanessaE Caleneledh: back up the world and make it available for download
18:15 VanessaE we need a copy!
18:15 VanessaE finally someone has this error on a pristine world
18:16 VanessaE rubenwardy: use my conversion script instead ;)
18:16 Caleneledh I wouldn't say it was pristing.  I have been making an errupting volcano mode, and that required a few changes to default.
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18:16 Caleneledh s/pristing/pristine/
18:17 rubenwardy VanessaE, the Linux only one?
18:17 VanessaE Caleneledh: pristine in the sense that no mods are creating any entities
18:17 VanessaE rubenwardy: yes ;)
18:17 rubenwardy :S
18:17 Caleneledh Ahh ok.
18:17 rubenwardy Some people actually use Windows, for some reason. I don't
18:17 VanessaE rubenwardy: I'm only kidding anyway :)
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18:18 VanessaE rubenwardy: one thing that would be enormously useful is hidden surface removal when exporting
18:18 VanessaE e.g. export a hollow model, not just the nodeboxes
18:18 VanessaE but that would be rather hard I guess
18:18 Caleneledh What file would you need?
18:18 rubenwardy Yeah, that's what I'm aiming for. A way of exporting an optimised mesh
18:19 VanessaE Caleneledh: ZIP up the whole world, minus auth.txt
18:19 rubenwardy I'm going to use Blender's API if I do do that, as I don't know complicate 3D mathematics
18:19 Caleneledh Ok will do.
18:19 Krock rubenwardy, why is XXF86VM_LIBRARY requires for your NBE?
18:19 Krock *required
18:19 rubenwardy Irrlicht
18:20 Krock irrlicht doesn't need it
18:20 rubenwardy Irrlicht is the only dependency
18:20 rubenwardy Huh? Weird
18:20 Krock I successfully compiled bzip2, libpng14 and zlib128 now I fail at this weird stuff
18:21 rubenwardy are you following this? https://github.com/rubenwardy/NodeBo​xEditor/blob/dev/docs/developers.md
18:21 rubenwardy or are you on windows?
18:21 Krock windoze
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18:21 rubenwardy Just download Irrlicht 1.8 from their website
18:22 rubenwardy That **should** work
18:22 Krock it still requires XXF86VM_LIBRARY
18:22 Krock CMake Error: The following variables are used in this project, but they are set to NOTFOUND.
18:22 rubenwardy Oh, you're using CMake
18:22 rubenwardy I use VS on Windows
18:22 Krock yeah. cmakelists.txt is thought to be used by cmake
18:22 Calinou but VS uses CMake?
18:22 Krock ^
18:22 Calinou CMake is a build system, not a compiler
18:22 Calinou also VS is evil (-:
18:22 rubenwardy I don't use CMake in VS
18:23 rubenwardy Try commenting out all the references to XX..., it might be a Linux only thing
18:23 Calinou by the way, more IDE project files could be supplied
18:23 Calinou like Code::Blocks
18:23 rubenwardy It was added to stop a build error on some platforms
18:23 Krock I googled a bit and yes- it's linux only
18:23 Calinou nvm
18:23 Calinou CMake can generate these
18:23 Calinou I keep forgetting
18:25 Krock compiling..
18:25 Krock what a load of warnings and errors
18:26 Krock ..\NodeBoxEditor\src\FileFormat\Lua.cpp(54): error C2018: unknown sign '0x40'
18:26 rubenwardy Wow
18:26 rubenwardy Sounds like encoding errors
18:27 Calinou CRLF vs LF?
18:27 Krock ..\NodeBoxEditor\src\FileFormat\MTC.cpp(18): error C2065: 'NBE_DESCR_VERSION': undeclared identifier
18:27 Krock ^ same error goes for Lua.cpp(54)
18:28 Krock at least I got some new compiled libraries :D
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18:29 rubenwardy That will be todo with the CMake configuration
18:30 Krock ah and I ad to rename conf_cmake.hpp.in -> conf_cmake.hpp so I was able to compile it
18:30 Krock *had
18:30 Calinou did someone get to build Aseprite on Windows?
18:31 Calinou tried on failed, missing Allegro files :/
18:31 Krock if someone fails, everyone will fail
18:31 Calinou not necessarily
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18:33 rubenwardy My work flow is: 1) Develop it using Linux 2) Hack it to work on Windows 3) Hack it to work on Linux, due to Windows hacks 4) goto 2
18:33 Krock interesting
18:33 Caleneledh VanessaE: Here you go https://www.dropbox.com/s/ioxvo5w4​jdcisat/volcano_world.tar.gz?dl=0
18:34 Krock I got a special trick to compile projects without cmakelists.txt. Create a dummy text, run "dir *.c", add those as sources and run cmake then compile the complete stuff
18:34 Krock costs time but it's earier than messing around with makefiles
18:35 Krock *easier
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18:37 rubenwardy 0x40 is @ according to the ASCII table. It was to do with the config, it seems.
18:38 VanessaE Caleneledh: upload it somewhere more permanent and post a link to it here:  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1426
18:38 VanessaE (best place I can think of anyway)
18:42 rubenwardy OMFG. Seriously. Why all separate comments? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hOyqPUpBOc
18:42 rubenwardy :(
18:43 VanessaE eh?
18:43 VanessaE oh
18:43 VanessaE just someone being an idiot :)
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18:53 rubenwardy Urgh. What state of mind was I in when I wrote the dialog system?
18:56 VanessaE no comment ;)
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18:57 VanessaE (actually it's not THAT bad)
18:58 rubenwardy The code structure I was talking about. The whole deleting itself.
18:58 rubenwardy It's not that bad, other than it's a segfault nightmare
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19:41 Krock success!
19:43 shadowzone What'd you do?
19:44 Krock compiled rubenwardy's NBE with MSVC
19:44 Krock but it required some ugly hacks
19:44 Krock for example, the editor is now at version v1.1.1.1
19:44 Krock a dummy input
19:45 rubenwardy Lol
19:45 Krock but it runs fine :D
19:45 rubenwardy I will fix before I release 0.7.1
19:45 rubenwardy File open/save?
19:46 Krock 1 min
19:46 rubenwardy Mostly talking about whether the file browser works
19:46 Krock works but the texture is white
19:46 Krock after re-loading
19:47 Krock btw, can I somehow rotate the perspective view?
19:48 Krock rubenwardy, also the icon is not included in the executable. I'm not sure how I could add it
19:49 rubenwardy Try moving bin/nodeboxeditor to nodeboxeditor.exe
19:50 Krock huh
19:57 rubenwardy Does it work?
19:57 Krock sorry, I don't get what you mean
19:58 rubenwardy Cut and paste the nodeboxeditor from bin/ to /.  In debug, probably.
19:58 rubenwardy *.exe
19:58 rubenwardy Using the explorer
19:58 rubenwardy folder explorer
19:58 rubenwardy ie: outside of VS
19:58 rubenwardy :S
20:00 Krock http://pastebin.com/VUdx6m88
20:01 rubenwardy Oh, okay
20:01 rubenwardy It reads the icon from Irrlicht.ico
20:01 rubenwardy Which you've dropped somewhere
20:01 Krock it's where cmakelists.txt is
20:02 rubenwardy Yeah. You need to move it to the same folder as nodeboxeditor.exe
20:02 rubenwardy It changes the icon when the editor is running
20:02 rubenwardy To change the exe icon in the folder system you do some complicated thing with resources
20:02 rubenwardy !g microsoft visual studio c++ set executable icon
20:02 MinetestBot rubenwardy: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/23​93863/set-an-exe-icon-for-my-program
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20:03 rubenwardy gtg
20:03 Krock k bai
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20:04 Krock should I upload the complete nodeboxeditor?
20:04 rubenwardy Coming soon TM: https://github.com/rubenwardy/NodeB​oxEditor/blob/dev/src/minetest.hpp
20:05 rubenwardy All that has been added so far is the file browser. That doesn't justify a release for me, but you can distribute if you like.
20:05 Krock k
20:06 rubenwardy Also, the dev branch is guaranteed to be super buggy :P
20:07 Krock I'll add that to my post
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20:17 _Esteban hello
20:17 Krock hi
20:18 _Esteban how are your servers going?
20:19 Krock they're fine but the router isn't
20:23 _Esteban I see that the new version was released a time ago... I wonder if there is new features worked on :P
20:38 alket how to check if server is up with MinetestBot
20:38 MinetestBot [git] Sapier at GMX dot net -> minetest/minetest: Fix getCraftRecipe returing wrong reciep due to way to unspecific output matching d902bd3 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/d902bd31c4b9e8c2a0d85af831a5a23f827a48a2 (2015-02-02T21:32:23+01:00)
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21:10 Krock alket, !up <ip/address> <port>
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22:57 Arch-TK internet protocol / address ?
22:57 mynameisperl left #minetest
23:00 Arch-TK maybe you mean <IP address/FQDN>
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