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IRC log for #minetest, 2015-01-17

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Time Nick Message
00:00 Thenextlevel joined #minetest
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01:15 gregorycu joined #minetest
01:15 gregorycu Hello folks
01:16 VanessaE hi
01:16 acerspyro NEI
01:16 acerspyro GO BACK WHENCE YOU CAME
01:16 VanessaE heh
01:21 gregorycu VanessaE: How I've wanted to speak to you
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01:21 gregorycu I have questions around pipeworks
01:22 gregorycu And how they are implemented
01:24 VanessaE well, I can try to answer
01:25 gregorycu I'm asking because there may be perf issues, and I want a little background before I investigate
01:26 gregorycu How are items shown travelling along pipes?
01:26 gregorycu Are those entities, or particles?
01:26 T4im oh you are fixing the entity related memory leak \o/ yay
01:26 NakedFury hello
01:26 gregorycu I'm taking a look at it :)
01:26 T4im you'll be celebrated if you fix it :D
01:27 gregorycu A shrine in my honour?
01:27 T4im haha, I'll build you one somewhere, ya
01:28 gregorycu It'll be the next thing I look at
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01:29 gregorycu Though I wonder if the whole thing would have been avoided if particles were used instead of entities
01:29 gregorycu (Particles expire automatically, unlike entities)
01:31 gregorycu It's no excuse for a memory leak, but it'd be less taxing anyway...
01:31 T4im well… other mods make use of entities too… though probably not as much :/
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01:35 VanessaE gregorycu: the objects in tubes are indeed entities
01:36 VanessaE (in a metal pipe it's just a node/texture switch when it has water)
01:36 gregorycu I'll try and get to the bottom of this
01:37 gregorycu I want that statue
01:37 T4im hehe
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01:51 T4im gregorycu: just mentioned your plans to a few fellow players, and their reactions ranged from "if he fixes it, he damn well deserves one" to "how big should that statue be?" ;)
01:51 T4im no pressure :P
01:54 Nytram Played minetest for a while (5 hours) but as a noob, I can't see how to learn stuff without google. Is google a pre-requisite?
01:54 VanessaE Nytram: more moreso than it would be when playing minecraft I guess
01:54 Nytram Minecraft is a youtube partner
01:55 Nytram Or so it seems
01:56 Nytram But whatever.. I'll grind on and try to learn.
01:56 acerspyro Nytram: play online
01:56 gregorycu lol, oh dear, expectations
01:56 acerspyro people will learn you stuff
01:57 T4im Nytram: many servers have usually a few players that a very willing to help any polite player that need help :)
01:58 T4im experimenting a bit on singleplayer for the basics can't hurt though
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01:58 T4im there is the minetestwiki for example: http://wiki.minetest.net/Main_Page
01:59 gregorycu Is the wiki downloadable for offline viewing?
01:59 T4im it can help with some questions, and of course there's irc :)
01:59 T4im hm
01:59 Nytram Is there a list of noob friendly servers?
01:59 gregorycu That would be dandy, if there were a nightly build of the wiki for offline viewing
02:01 Nytram I guess not. 8/
02:01 T4im gregorycu: I've seen *somewhere* a git-like interface to wikimedia wiki's, can't find it atm though
02:02 T4im where you could download wikimedia stuff edit locally and push it back up etc
02:02 T4im but I guess that's not helpful for endusers
02:02 T4im Nytram: there is a list with servers  http://servers.minetest.net/
02:03 jordan4ibanez If there's media that's too big the game seems to crash
02:03 T4im I don't know many of them, so I can't make many recommendations… but I would avoid pvp servers in the beginning
02:03 acerspyro jordan4ibanez: what platform
02:03 acerspyro android
02:03 jordan4ibanez Linux
02:03 acerspyro ?
02:03 acerspyro oh
02:03 acerspyro weird, what server
02:04 Nytram I don't like the vanilla game
02:05 T4im there are many modded servers :)
02:05 Nytram It's boring
02:05 acerspyro Try Carbone
02:05 Enke Carbone is good.
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02:18 Thenextlevel anyone know a fun temp minetest sever
02:24 n4x est31: I'd say "forced" indentation is cool, some languages do it wrong though
02:25 VanessaE Thenextlevel: play on mine. (they're permanent/long time though)
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02:29 est31 n4x: you know, sometimes you have a if thisandthat then return, and then you dont want to start a new line for that
02:29 n4x est31: "doing it wrong"
02:30 n4x est31: and if you have nested ifs, your language should have some sugar for that
02:31 gregorycu if thisandthat is not nested
02:31 n4x something like "guards" would do it
02:31 n4x oh, I read it as "if then else then"
02:31 n4x I think I should sleep
02:31 n4x est31: any example code?
02:32 gregorycu The only problem I have with indentation is fools that use spaces
02:32 est31 No matter how well you design your language, people will make code that is stupid no matter what your language forces.
02:32 n4x just if (a && b)
02:32 n4x est31: never said otherwise
02:32 est31 gregorycu:  no problem, just use emacs in openbsd while surfing firefox!
02:32 acerspyro wrong
02:32 est31 (and systemd)
02:33 n4x gregorycu: spaces ftw
02:33 acerspyro You could force it so much that people need a degree and a license to code in a language
02:34 est31 n4x: what example code for?
02:34 n4x est31: also, allowing to bypass the indentation is a must
02:34 n4x (like Haskell's ";")
02:34 n4x case x of
02:34 n4x Just w -> 2
02:35 n4x Nothing -> 3
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02:35 n4x or case x of Just w -> 2; Nothing -> 3
02:37 est31 haskell case is just a better c ternary operator? case sounds so procedural...
02:37 n4x haskell's "case" is pattern matching case
02:39 stormchaser3000 joined #minetest
02:39 n4x est31: ever played with ML?
02:39 n4x or F#?
02:39 n4x (or scala, for that matter)
02:40 n4x going to my house, will be talking from exio4 in a bit ;P
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02:46 gregorycu Gotta love that moment you optimise something that the profiler says is expensive, even thought it looks like it can't possibly be expensive
02:46 gregorycu And the profiler was right
02:50 VanessaE just how optimized?
02:51 VanessaE (and what was it? :P )
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02:59 gregorycu It's not pipeworks, something else
02:59 VanessaE oh good
03:00 gregorycu Basically, offset = pos - blockPos * BLOCK_SIZE
03:00 gregorycu blockPos * BLOCK_SIZE is very slow
03:01 gregorycu Anyway, I'm pretty sure my solution is suboptimal, i can make it better
03:02 gregorycu You stopped caring when it was C++, didn't you
03:02 VanessaE no :)
03:02 VanessaE I was about to ask what your solution was but couldn't find the right words
03:05 gregorycu The "solution" at the moment is to cache the result of blockPos * BLOCK_SIZE, because blockPos doesn't change too much
03:06 VanessaE sounds like something I'd dop
03:06 VanessaE do*
03:06 gregorycu The best solution is actually reworking the code a little
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03:06 gregorycu Effectively, it's caclulating the remained of a division operation
03:06 gregorycu remainder
03:07 gregorycu The thing is, on most architectures if you calculate the quotient and the division at the same time, it's a single CPU operation
03:07 gregorycu quotient and mod I mean
03:07 gregorycu So, I can avoid the whole line just by being a little clever
03:08 gregorycu And I can look good doing it
03:08 VanessaE heh
03:11 jordan4ibanez Finally the trains act like trains http://youtu.be/bqPDE2Xdgbs
03:11 gregorycu wow
03:12 gregorycu That's fucking sick
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03:13 The_Chosen_One_ Hey guys, what's the best way to setup a server?
03:17 gregorycu I think there is a wiki page for this
03:18 jordan4ibanez Thank you, gregorycu
03:18 jordan4ibanez :D
03:18 DFeniks wow those trains turn on a dime
03:18 gregorycu http://wiki.minetest.net/Setting_up_a_server
03:18 gregorycu Turning is a little hard
03:18 DFeniks how wide would tunnel need to be to support train turning?
03:19 The_Chosen_One_ Yeah there is but it seems rushed and sloppy. Not what I usually expect from servers such as Apache. Was wondering if I missed something.
03:20 jordan4ibanez gregorycu: That's because the trucks are about 4 blocks or so apart, the model is maybe 6 apart
03:20 gregorycu The_Chosen_One_: What is rushed and sloppy?
03:21 The_Chosen_One_ Nvrmnd, my google results turned up the one for Ubuntu and then left me in the dust with a quickly put of server and no configuration. This is a little more detailed.
03:21 gregorycu The_Chosen_One_: What you gotta remember is there is a lot less required to set up. Unlike Apache.
03:22 The_Chosen_One_ Okie dokie.
03:22 gregorycu The_Chosen_One_: Anyway, if it's missing some important detail, let us know and we'll fix it up
03:23 VanessaE jordan4ibanez: I liked it better when the trucks moved separately from the engine as in the first video ytou posted
03:23 VanessaE you*
03:23 jordan4ibanez DFeniks: I'm going to set it up so that the entity of the engine will derail the train if it intersects a block
03:24 jordan4ibanez VanessaE: Yes, but this is just a test of a model that has trucks modeled into it to see how it looks, it doesn't look very nice
03:24 VanessaE oh ok
03:24 gregorycu jordan4ibanez: If you can let me make a recommendation with regards to turning
03:25 jordan4ibanez Shoot it
03:25 gregorycu I'd probably make the train move as if there were two point connecting it to the track
03:25 gregorycu As opposed to one
03:25 gregorycu That way, turning is quite gradual
03:26 gregorycu The train effectivly starts turning as soon as the front is over the turn, as opposed to the middle
03:26 gregorycu You probably have that planned, but I think that would make the early tech demos look awesome
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03:28 T4im https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi​a/commons/3/3d/B%C3%A9zier_2_big.gif <-- something like that?
03:29 gregorycu Exactly like that
03:29 gregorycu I'm looking at the video, maybe that's what you've done a little?
03:29 gregorycu But the points are somewhat close to the middle?
03:31 DFeniks i was thinking once about diagonal tracks
03:31 VanessaE khonkhortisan made a pull for that a while back
03:31 VanessaE it was obviously not accepted :(
03:32 DFeniks im just saying its not really suggestion
03:33 jordan4ibanez I have no idea how I'd do that, the current one I'm doing is already very complicated lol
03:33 DFeniks i was just thinking how trains could  turn realistic way
03:34 gregorycu jordan4ibanez: The maths is a little hard, but I think it would be worth it
03:35 gregorycu It will give you realistic looking turns
03:35 jordan4ibanez The way the trains turn right now is very stable and predictible, it's just two points and the yaw of the train is calculated by a vector converted to a yaw
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03:36 gregorycu Actually the maths is not that hard
03:36 jordan4ibanez I'll experiment with that though. The turns you're suggesting would have to be multiple nodes acting as one
03:36 gregorycu Multiple points
03:36 gregorycu If you model the train as two points on the track as opposed to one
03:37 gregorycu You then place the train on the midpoint of those two points
03:37 gregorycu With a direction equal to the vector created by those two points
03:38 gregorycu Do entities have metadata?
03:38 jordan4ibanez Wait a second, I just looked at the gif and that's what I'm already doing lol
03:38 VanessaE they can, yes
03:38 gregorycu jordan4ibanez: You need to move the points closer to the edge of the model
03:39 gregorycu The train... swivels... too much
03:39 jordan4ibanez Yes, as I said above, this was just a test
03:39 gregorycu Anyway, I'm not trying to detract what you've done, it looks awesome
03:39 jordan4ibanez No no, I need that kind of critisism to make the mod better
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03:44 TriBlade9 There's still no way to set itemstack textures without registering them first right?
03:45 jordan4ibanez Nope
03:45 TriBlade9 Darn
03:45 TriBlade9 I'm attempting to make dyable items
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03:46 jordan4ibanez You could register EVERYTHING in different colors
03:46 TriBlade9 Yeah, well, that's a bit overkill dontcha think?
03:46 jordan4ibanez Nope :3
03:46 TriBlade9 I'm making a clothing mod
03:47 TriBlade9 Realized that you can layer skins indefinately
03:47 TriBlade9 Thought dying them would be even cooler
03:47 sofar nice
03:47 TriBlade9 Ohi sofar
03:47 TriBlade9 :D
03:47 sofar well hello
03:48 * sofar checks his sedimentology-mt mod page on the forum :)
03:48 jordan4ibanez Hi sofar
03:48 TriBlade9 sofar, I absolutely love sedimentology :)
03:48 sofar thanks
03:49 sofar it's not entirely done yet. I'll spend some time in the next few weeks tuning it a bit further
03:49 sofar so please check once a week or so for new versions
03:49 TriBlade9 If I may ask, where did you get the idea to port it to MT?
03:49 jordan4ibanez From Minecraft?
03:50 sofar TriBlade9: I was a dev.bukkit.org moderator when bukkit blew up, which put my plugin coding pretty much in the freezer
03:50 sofar yes, it was a bukkit/minecraft plugin
03:51 TriBlade9 Ah, neat.
03:51 TriBlade9 I do a bit of Bukkit/Spigot plugin development myself.
03:51 TriBlade9 Just wrote a lightweight alternative to AutoRank a few days back.
03:51 sofar since I'm a GPL guy in heart and kidneys, minetest was pretty obvious something I was going to follow
03:51 TriBlade9 ^
03:51 sofar I work on Linux professionally
03:52 khonkhortisan DFeniks, my mistake was drawing the tracks diagonally, and not making the carts able to follow them without zig-zagging.
03:54 TriBlade9 sofar, How are you liking MT modding? (Aside from the issues with the biome API)
03:54 sofar boy loaded question
03:54 sofar lua is... just... wow
03:54 TriBlade9 Wow in a good way or bad way? x]
03:54 sofar arrays start at 1. no value++
03:55 sofar *G*
03:55 TriBlade9 (I prefer JavaScript by a long shot)
03:55 sofar sorry, I'm a C type of person ;)
03:55 TriBlade9 Perhaps you should try core engine development?
03:55 TriBlade9 I suck at C/C++, but have made some half-useful PRs so far
03:56 sofar well I used to do Linux kernel development
03:57 est31 drib
03:57 est31 drivers?
03:57 sofar nah lua is fine, I started with zero knowledge less than 5 days ago
03:57 sofar est31: mostly, yes (I maintained e100, e1000 and a few other of Intel's ethernet drivers for a while)
03:57 sofar TriBlade9: I've spent perhaps 10 hours total on porting sedimentology, so it's not so bad
03:58 acerspyro Isn't it LUA that' s
03:58 acerspyro that's slowing MT down*
03:58 sofar nah, performance wise it's doing fine
03:58 TriBlade9 With LuaJIT it's bearable, but I still think V8 would be faster
03:58 sofar minecraft/bukkit couldn't handle sedimentology better, I'd say minetest does just as good without luajit
03:59 sofar well, let me add
03:59 sofar sedimentology isn't hard on servers at all - in DEFAULT settings
03:59 sofar for my testing I run at 100x though
03:59 sofar since otherwise it's too slow ;)
03:59 acerspyro isn't V8 for JS?
03:59 TriBlade9 I'd love to see servers running sedementology
03:59 TriBlade9 Yes acerspyro. I really want MT to use Js x]
03:59 acerspyro lol
04:00 sofar there were a few MC servers around, people sent me links and whatnot
04:00 sofar with the bukkitsplosion, I haven't checked much
04:00 sofar I just play at home with my kids mostly, anyway
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04:02 chrisf i dont have numbers to link (sorry), but ive seen luajit perform significantly better than v8.
04:04 acerspyro GOVERNMENTAL BULLSHIT
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04:07 chrisf acerspyro: ?
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04:09 acerspyro lol
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04:18 jordan4ibanez gregorycu: The distance between the two trucks is now configureable. :D
04:18 gregorycu Won't that make your collision code for turning hard? ;)
04:19 gregorycu You've a brave man
04:20 jordan4ibanez Let me make a video to show just how smooth it is, I'm impressed with myself
04:20 gregorycu Cool, looking forward to it
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04:26 jordan4ibanez Man, I can't wait until all my code is developed so I can finally have a train yard in Minetest
04:30 jordan4ibanez gregorycu: http://youtu.be/LFyndP3OIL8
04:30 TriBlade9 jordan4ibanez HYPE
04:31 jordan4ibanez Hype?
04:32 gregorycu Awesome
04:33 gregorycu I think this makes is simplier for you, if you ever were to introduce a large curve
04:34 TriBlade9 jordy, it seems to be a bit jerky in that video. I can't tell if it's just FPS lag or what
04:34 jordan4ibanez That might happen, but this current code doesn't allow for it
04:34 jordan4ibanez TriBlade9: It's just fps lag
04:34 TriBlade9 Okay
04:34 TriBlade9 I see you like Geany for modding as well <3
04:35 * est31 uses kate
04:35 gregorycu Out of interest, what happens with a zig-zag track?
04:35 TriBlade9 Woah, that speed though
04:35 jordan4ibanez It's because I have to use moveto instead of setvelocity for the main part of the train, what you saw in the video would happen on a server
04:36 TriBlade9 ah, oke
04:37 jordan4ibanez gregorycu: The train sways side to side
04:37 gregorycu Very cool
04:37 gregorycu As it should
04:44 jordan4ibanez Minetest, someday: http://youtu.be/cNFKMXqLsgY
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05:39 jordan4ibanez Can a moderator move this https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?f=47&amp;t=11027 to WIP mods?
05:39 jordan4ibanez Also goodnight
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05:59 est31 nooo lag on VanessaE survival server. I logged out and now it sais "connecting to server" without anything happening.
06:03 diemartin est31,
06:03 diemartin * VE-Survival has quit (Quit: Game shutting down.)
06:03 diemartin oops, extra \n
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06:04 diemartin lol quarry bug again :D
06:04 est31 it crashed the server? I got no *** server  shutting down message
06:06 kaeza est31, it's back up BTW
06:06 VanessaE I restarted the server actually.
06:07 VanessaE it didn't crash, it just lagged too hard.
06:07 kaeza ah
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06:30 est31 does a server need restart for backups?
06:32 est31 VanessaE: do you use a btrfs copy-on-write snapshot like mechanism for making backups or is it a simple cp production.db backup-`date`.db
06:33 VanessaE I use rsync to make the backups
06:33 est31 rsync copies the whole file I guess.
06:35 VanessaE mmhmm
06:35 VanessaE the backup cycle takes about 14 minutes at present
06:35 VanessaE (spinning rust drive, tens of gigs to copy)
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06:37 est31 is it copied to the same disk?
06:37 The_Chosen_One_ joined #minetest
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06:38 The_Chosen_One_ How does one edit their posessions on a server? I've tried modifying my player file. It just returns to normal every time I start the game.
06:42 kaeza The_Chosen_One_, make sure the server is not running
06:43 The_Chosen_One_ I've closed the server and left it running both. In either case, when I start the game, I still have the same things I left off with.
06:44 kaeza only thing I can think of is that, or that you are modifying the wrong file
06:45 The_Chosen_One_ I went into the worlds folder then to my world. Then I went to players and clicked on the file for my player.
06:47 The_Chosen_One_ I'm uploading the files via sftp to a vps after modification.
06:47 VanessaE est31: yeah, unfortunately that's my only option.  but better that then no backups at all
06:47 est31 true
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06:50 est31 have you experience with btrfs snapshots?
06:50 kaeza The_Chosen_One_, I just tried locally, and editing the player file works
06:51 The_Chosen_One_ I just tried locally and it works.
06:51 kaeza since you said you were uploading via ftp, are you sure you're putting the file in the correct place?
06:52 The_Chosen_One_ Yes. It's asking to overwrite the previous one and after I close the server down, the file size (which I'm looking at in Filezilla) changes.
06:53 The_Chosen_One_ Basically when I stop playing the game, the file size changes. When I shutdown the server and update the file itself, it also changes. Could it be the endline encoding? CRLF?
06:56 sofar est31: btrfs snapshots... are not backups :)
06:57 est31 yeah. idk whether you can mount a snapshot and the "latest version" simultaneously, while writing on the latter and copying the first to a safe place
06:57 * VanessaE wanders off to bed.
06:57 VanessaE night
06:58 sofar est31: well that's actually the nice thing about btrfs snapshots, it is inherently safe to do that
06:58 sofar you can mount any of the snapshots and main volume at any time
06:58 est31 also for writing?
06:59 sofar creating is atomic
06:59 sofar you shouldn't rsync data between them, just make another snapshot and throw old ones out
06:59 sofar (I've worked with the btrfs developers in the past)
07:00 sofar Chris is a very nice guy
07:01 est31 yes. but I mean, take the server offline, make a snapshot, then get srv back on and mount and copy the snapshot to  a safe place the same time
07:01 est31 whos Chris
07:01 est31 btrfs dev?
07:01 sofar Chris Mason
07:01 sofar main btrfs author
07:01 est31 ok
07:02 sofar yeah you can do all that safely at any time, really
07:02 sofar the ONLY thing btrfs is iffy about is free space
07:02 est31 is there a nice undelete utility
07:02 sofar I end up reclaiming manually to avoid it
07:03 sofar undelete? pretty much not possible with any FS like ext3/4/btrfs/xfs etc
07:03 sofar your data could be gone in microseconds on any linux fs
07:03 est31 but there is a history of roots or something like that
07:03 sofar that's the nature of them
07:03 sofar well if you snapshot, who cares about undeletes?
07:04 est31 yeah, thats always the argument
07:06 est31 is there any good mechanism that automatically makes snapshots?
07:06 sofar suse has snapper
07:08 est31 what are you using for regular snapshots?
07:08 sofar I'm not using btrfs atm
07:09 sofar most of my data lives on a raid-5
07:09 est31 ok
07:09 est31 but doesn't save you from a wrong rm -rf
07:10 sofar there's a second drive in a different machine for the real important stuff
07:16 sofar is there a way to get pointed_thing from the player name in a chatcommand handler?
07:28 est31 without punch?
07:30 twoelk|2 maybe you can catch the info sent to the F5 on screen display?
07:32 sofar yeah I want to do this server-side
07:33 twoelk ?
07:33 sofar client points at node, issues /command, stuff happens to pointed_node
07:34 twoelk ah, sort of cache the pointed at info server side
07:35 sofar cache? no, just using it once
07:36 est31 there needs to be a message for the server to send a request to the client which node it points at
07:36 twoelk don't I loose focus once I start the chat command?
07:36 est31 or the client needs to send it with the movement data
07:36 sofar you don't lose focus
07:36 est31 if you use on_punch instead? player punches node -> issues command
07:36 sofar I could calculate it from the player position and orientation
07:37 sofar or on_punch, but I don't want to have it punched
07:37 est31 that however would involve a lot of punch handlers to add
07:37 sofar exactly
07:37 sofar and when to cancel them? and when not?
07:37 twoelk I don't think doing it without punch is a good idea
07:37 sofar well I don't want to create a custom tool
07:37 sofar like e.g. MC's WE does
07:38 est31 uset the position of the player
07:38 twoelk if you move the direction when trying to chat this could have unwanted effects
07:38 twoelk like on a tablet
07:40 sofar this is more for a server admin like tool
07:40 sofar if there's no clean solution I won't code it up
07:40 est31 what should the tool do
07:41 sofar basically call an internal mod function to attempt to erode it
07:44 est31 sofar: you could take the position directly under the player. and the command can have a number as param, that sais in which range the attempt should be done too
07:44 twoelk sounds like a dangerous tool to handle correctly :-D
07:44 sofar est31: that's what I'm thinking now
07:45 * twoelk remembers a locked key while using the node gun and the havoc it created
07:47 sofar can I remove all generated landscape and have it regen by removing the map.sqlite file?
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07:48 sofar yup, that seems to work
07:49 est31 oh yeah only storing diffs is one of the things that are in my interest list. you need to establish a way on how to make mapgen 100% determinstic
07:49 est31 and portable
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07:54 redstonecraftpl hi
07:58 sofar any good rain/storm mods?
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08:23 I_shat_myself What is the meaning of this when migrating to LevelDB? Irrlicht log: Error: Need running XServer to start Irrlicht Engine.
08:23 Krock hi
08:24 I_shat_myself hi
08:24 Krock I don't need xserver to start Irrlicht.. lel
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08:25 I_shat_myself After that line, it says: Irrlicht log: Could not open display, set DISPLAY variable
08:26 Krock also I don't see why irrlicht is needed to migrate a database
08:26 I_shat_myself Your guess is as good as mine.
08:27 I_shat_myself I don't understand why X is needed.
08:27 Krock maybe an engine bug
08:28 I_shat_myself This is the command I gave. Maybe I did it wrong. minetest --migrate LevelDB --world world
08:30 Calinou hi
08:30 Calinou LevelDB is not necessarily faster, by the way
08:30 Calinou this is especially true on local worlds
08:31 kaeza I_shat_myself, try using `minetestserver` instead of `minetest`
08:31 kaeza `minetestserver` does not require X; `minetest` does
08:31 Krock SQLite is better IMO
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08:32 TriBlade9 Hey guys, is anyone available for me to ask a crapton of modding questions?
08:32 Krock continue
08:33 kaeza 0 OK, 0:1
08:33 I_shat_myself I appended a "-X" to the end of my ssh login on my VPS. It seems to either be tied up or actually doing something now. How long does it take to migrate a freshly created world?
08:33 Krock depends on its file size
08:34 kaeza "freshly created world" "depends on its file size"
08:34 Calinou TriBlade9, ask them
08:34 TriBlade9 Okay.
08:34 I_shat_myself As in, never access by a player.
08:34 I_shat_myself *accessed
08:34 Calinou should be done in seconds…
08:34 TriBlade9 First off, how does one create an additional inventory for a player, which is automatically stored?
08:34 TriBlade9 Or does one need to handle the serialization themselves?
08:35 Krock kaeza, maybe (s)he explored 10000m^3 already within some hours and that's already a big file
08:35 kaeza Krock, I take "freshly created" as "I just mkdir worlds/MyWorld"
08:35 Krock TriBlade9, just add a list to the player
08:36 TriBlade9 Yes, I attempted that
08:36 Krock kaeza, but then there's no configuratio or anything
08:36 I_shat_myself No, I started Minetest and it created worlds/world. I then shut minetest down
08:36 TriBlade9 player:get_inventory():set_list("NAME", {});
08:36 Krock how about :set_size("foobar", 5*5)?
08:36 kaeza TriBlade9, player:get_inventory():set_size("NAME", 1234)
08:36 TriBlade9 Did that as well
08:37 TriBlade9 Does that show up anywhere? Or do you have to create a formspec for it?
08:37 Krock but that should work
08:37 Krock formspec required
08:37 TriBlade9 (Obviously I'm a bit new to modding x])
08:37 Krock except you override "main" :3
08:37 TriBlade9 Huh, okay
08:37 kaeza use an on_joinplayer callback to set the player's inventory formspec
08:37 Krock ^
08:38 TriBlade9 Can I just use Unified Inventory?
08:38 TriBlade9 To display a separate formspec
08:38 kaeza but be aware that this way your mod may be incompatible with other inventory-changing mods (like UI)
08:38 kaeza well, consult the UI API
08:38 Krock unified inventory is great for smaller things
08:39 TriBlade9 Alright, TY for the help
08:39 TriBlade9 Yeah, I'm just making a small inventory for clothes
08:39 kaeza !next
08:39 MinetestBot Another satisfied customer. Next!
08:39 TriBlade9 Lol
08:39 kaeza aaaaand I'm off to bed anyway
08:39 TriBlade9 See ya kaeza
08:39 Krock bai
08:39 kaeza g'night
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08:53 Zeno` drawtime=45
08:53 Zeno` nice
08:53 Zeno` heh
08:53 I_shat_myself I'm compiling minetestserver from source b/c my distro doesn't have it. Where will my worlds and mods be stored directory wise?
08:54 Zeno` I_shat_myself, depends. Check ~/.minetest/
08:54 I_shat_myself in reference to the OS and I will do once it's finished compiling.
08:55 Zeno` well ~ is your home directory
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08:55 Zeno` so check there first  (cd ~/.minetest)
08:58 Calinou I_shat_myself, what distribution do you use?
08:58 Calinou minetest-server package on Debian/Ubuntu should do it
08:58 I_shat_myself I'm using an Ubuntu variant but I just found that out. I was using minetestserver as the package.
08:59 Krock Zeno`, http://i.imgur.com/DKURC97.png
08:59 Zeno` what is that?!
08:59 Zeno` (apart from huge)
08:59 Krock New York City
09:00 Zeno` why is drawtime=1060?!
09:00 Calinou https://cdn.mediacru.sh/F/FK-miM9HUoUF.png
09:00 Krock Zeno`, cuz there were that many nodeboxes to be drawn
09:00 Zeno` haha Calinou
09:01 Krock Calinou, who's that?
09:01 Calinou it is on rnd's server
09:01 Calinou (rnd is someone I know, actually)
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09:01 TriBlade9 Hmm
09:01 TriBlade9 Is there a way to register an inventory list before hand?
09:01 I_shat_myself I know this will sound weird but is there a way to run minetestserver as a service? Whenever I close the ssh session, the server shuts down.
09:02 est31 thats because it listens for hangup signal
09:03 est31 either use screen, or do (which I recommend) this: http://wiki.minetest.com/wiki/Setting_up_a_server
09:03 est31 it also contains how to do regular backup
09:06 Zeno` pity the link to the bash script seems to be dead
09:06 I_shat_myself Now that I'm using minetestserver instead of minetest --server, I get this http://pastebin.com/vuKWnW4T
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09:07 Krock I_shat_myself, you need minetest 0.4.11
09:07 Krock 0.4.9 is old.
09:07 Zeno` and you also need to avoid running a server as root :P
09:08 est31 should not need. but emphasis added on "please do it"
09:08 I_shat_myself That's very true Zeno.
09:08 Calinou 0.4.9.
09:09 Calinou get a more recent version, I_shat_myself
09:09 Calinou 0.4.11 or latest Git
09:09 Calinou Mesecons no longer works on 0.4.9, since it uses override_item()
09:09 I_shat_myself That means my repos are FAR behind.
09:10 Krock about 500 commits
09:10 Zeno` I would recommend the latest git
09:15 I_shat_myself Where is root's trash stored?
09:16 Krock I don't know why I want to answer with: "At C:\ :P"
09:16 I_shat_myself I trashed the compiled version for the minetest-server version. Now, no matter how many times I pass the URL through get, cmake says files are missing.
09:17 I_shat_myself *git
09:18 Kalabasa it depends on how you "trashed" it
09:19 I_shat_myself rm -R
09:19 est31 rm -rf git demands that
09:20 TriBlade9 rubenwardy, are you on?
09:21 Calinou he is not, send him a memo?
09:22 TriBlade9 !memo
09:22 TriBlade9 Awkwad x]
09:22 TriBlade9 ...
09:22 TriBlade9 Double awkward.
09:23 TriBlade9 I'll just post an issue for him on GH
09:23 est31 Shadowbot help tell
09:23 ShadowBot est31: (tell <nick> <text>) -- Tells <nick> <text> the next time <nick> is seen. <nick> can contain wildcard characters, and the first matching nick will be given the note.
09:23 Calinou TriBlade9, /ms send rubenwardy <your message>
09:23 Calinou this works on all freenode
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09:23 TriBlade9 Vunderbar
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09:24 I_shat_myself How well does Minetestserver run on one core?
09:24 Calinou the game should preferably be run on dual-core CPUs
09:24 Calinou so that background tasks run on another core
09:25 Calinou read and apply these settings: https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=10&amp;t=1825
09:25 Calinou especially `active_block_range = 1`
09:25 Krock I_shat_myself, minetest is playable on a 2.5 GHz singlecore CPU
09:25 Krock so I think a server will run fine
09:26 I_shat_myself These are in the Minetest.conf file?
09:26 Calinou yes
09:26 Calinou add it, it isn't present by default
09:26 I_shat_myself Already have. was doing some fidgetting with it earlier.
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09:42 Kalabasa Anybody knows what the "error in error handling" error means?
09:44 Krock the error gave an error?
09:44 Calinou Kalabasa, use Lua without LuaJIT to know the real error
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09:45 Kalabasa Do I have to recompile?
09:45 Kalabasa Oh. In the pause screen, USE_LUAJIT=0
09:48 Calinou oh, you're already using non-LuaJIT
09:50 Kalabasa Maybe related to `get_luaentity()`
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09:52 Kalabasa or punch
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09:56 SopaXorzTaker Here's a free Minecraft gift code: W1H1-A1,1 2E
09:57 SopaXorzTaker xD
09:57 SopaXorzTaker ->trolling
09:57 Krock Here's a costy Minetest gift code: W0W101
09:58 SopaXorzTaker Here's another one: MINETESTISGPLIFYOUBOUGHTITCONSIDERADONATIONLOLPWNT
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10:13 TriBlade9 VanessaE, you don't happen to have a Unified Dyes API do you?
10:13 TriBlade9 I'm not looking forward to writing out a 90-length table with the names and hex values of each possible dye color.
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10:23 Zeno` c'mon TriBlade9
10:23 Zeno` don't be lazy
10:23 Zeno` :D
10:23 TriBlade9 I'm doing it right now Zeno` :P
10:24 Zeno` just use named colours
10:24 TriBlade9 Well, I'm trying to use Unified Dyes for all my clothing, which is colored using the [colorize:RRGGBB texture thingy
10:24 Zeno` https://github.com/Zeno-/minetest/b​lob/master/src/util/string.cpp#L382
10:24 Zeno` there you go... lots of them
10:24 TriBlade9 Since VanessaE used named colors and RGB, it's not exactly nice
10:25 TriBlade9 That's real nice, but still doesn't integrate with UnifiedDyes :P
10:25 TriBlade9 Btw, colored chat should have support for those
10:25 Zeno` VanessaE, update UnifiedDyes
10:25 Zeno` lol
10:26 TriBlade9 I have a right to be lazy and grumpy >:U
10:26 TriBlade9 I'm having a bout of food poisoning.
10:27 Zeno` just write a quick and dirty Lua script or C program to get the colours :P
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10:28 TriBlade9 I'm using a modified version of her bash script
10:28 TriBlade9 Still have to convert RGB to Hex manually though
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10:36 TriBlade9 1/3rd done
10:38 jin_xi hm. wonder if its possible to change crosshairs on the fly?
10:39 TriBlade9 Shit
10:39 TriBlade9 I just realized that there's an inherant block to me making a clothing mod
10:39 TriBlade9 I can't make textures for shit.
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11:02 TriBlade9 huh, how do you add stuff to the creative inventory?
11:04 jin_xi usually your stuff is added by default unless you add not_in_creative or so
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11:07 TriBlade9 Weird, not working for me (Unified Inventory)
11:08 CWz deleteblocks seems to crash minetest
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11:37 TriBlade9 Clothing mod is working :D
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11:40 TriBlade9 G'night
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11:54 TheFrozenPig Hi, How do you guys setup a starting point in the game where people can start from and respawn to?
11:56 TheFrozenPig I have the respawn part down pat but the initial point is driving me insane.
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12:01 Zeno` static_spawn
12:01 Zeno` in minetest.conf
12:05 TheFrozenPig Found what I was doing wrong. For some reason, I used periods instead of commas.
12:05 TheFrozenPig I had actually written a lua script for respawning because it was ticking me off.
12:08 Krock some people want to invent the wheel a 2nd time
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12:12 est31 TheFrozenPig: there are already mods out there doing what you want
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13:18 Kalabasa What is the weight for?
13:18 Kalabasa entity weight
13:43 Jordach deprecated, it doesnt have a use anymore
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14:13 Kalabasa Oh...
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14:56 Evil-Elf-Lord-Ba Is anyone else having problems with plantlife_modpack in 4.11?
14:58 jin_xi what problems?
14:59 Evil-Elf-Lord-Ba I put it in world.mt and now MT says it cannot find the mod. I copied the folder name directly from the folder to avoid spelling mistakes.
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15:01 Evil-Elf-Lord-Ba The modpack is in the mods folder.
15:02 jin_xi does the mod show up when you configure the world via gui?
15:02 Evil-Elf-Lord-Ba Give me a second.
15:03 Kalabasa Wow, free models from OpenGameArt http://opengameart.org/content/pi​xel-dungeons-set1-props-and-stuff
15:03 Kalabasa fits "minetest style"
15:05 Evil-Elf-Lord-Ba Yes and it actually works.
15:06 MinetestBot [git] CraigyDavi -> minetest/minetest_game: Follow naming convention of textures and sounds in doors 6157982 http://git.io/VQjhRA (2015-01-17T16:05:23+01:00)
15:06 MinetestBot [git] CraigyDavi -> minetest/minetest_game: Add fancy inventory for bones 07dcae7 http://git.io/qP-rkA (2015-01-17T16:05:19+01:00)
15:07 jin_xi cool, i always use the gui so idk what was the problem, but glad it works now
15:08 Jordach i always drop my mods into /games/gamename/mods/
15:09 Evil-Elf-Lord-Ba No, I mean it works for the GUI. The server minetestserver is still going kaput.
15:09 jin_xi oh
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15:31 MinetestBot [git] kilbith -> minetest/minetest_game: Add straw 5d8b244 http://git.io/8DFQ-g (2015-01-17T16:30:31+01:00)
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17:41 rubenwardy Hi all!
17:42 Wayward_One silly question, how does one update their fork of minetest on github?
17:42 Wayward_One hello rubenwardy :)
17:42 rubenwardy Wayward_One, please clarify
17:42 rubenwardy Do you mean get changes from Minetest upstream?
17:42 rubenwardy Or add your own changes?
17:43 Wayward_One get changes from upstream. i'm currently 124 commits behind master
17:44 Calinou hi rubenwardy
17:44 Calinou Wayward_One, git pull https://github.com/minetest/minetest.git
17:44 Calinou or minetest/minetest_game.git for the game
17:44 Calinou use that command in your Git repository
17:44 rubenwardy and then git push
17:44 Calinou then you can push… using git push
17:44 rubenwardy If you use the windows client, you need to open up the shell
17:45 Wayward_One ah, ok.
17:45 rubenwardy If you have changes, you need to rebase. Which is a PITA
17:45 rubenwardy brb
17:45 Calinou this is why you should keep the master branch unmodified
17:45 Calinou and make all your changes in branches
17:46 Calinou `git checkout -b branch_name` creates a branch and switches to it
17:48 Wayward_One yeah, i know, i do. i was just wondering how to update my fork
17:49 Calinou be sure to use the git pull while you're in the master branch
17:49 Wayward_One ok
17:49 Wayward_One yeah, i was aware of the other commands, just not git push lol
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18:16 rubenwardy back!
18:16 MinetestBot [git] Sapier at GMX dot net -> minetest/minetest: Fix NodeMetadataList loosing memory on deserialize due to invalid clear map call instead of clear a39c136 http://git.io/RUDygw (2015-01-17T19:14:36+01:00)
18:16 MinetestBot [git] none@none.none -> minetest/minetest: Fix entitiy WieldMeshSceneNode not freed due to additional grab 2959d6b http://git.io/SKLrZg (2015-01-17T19:13:08+01:00)
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18:28 rubenwardy Blender <3
18:28 Jordach <3
18:28 VanessaE you seen the updates to pipeworks and technic lately? :)
18:32 rubenwardy This is what I'm currently working on: https://cdn.mediacru.sh/R/Rv3D5NeBpKwY.png
18:32 rubenwardy (Warning: 1080p)
18:33 rubenwardy Jordach: how can I make the light from the fire bounce of the floor and scatter to the ceiling? What is it called? I'm currently using ambient occulusion, only
18:38 Calinou global illumiantion, rubenwardy
18:38 Calinou Tesseract does it in realtime :p
18:38 Calinou global illumination*
18:38 Trixar_za Tesseract? How would that look?
18:38 Calinou it looks fine
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18:39 Calinou even on its low quality setting
18:40 jordan4ibanez Jordach: Are you up for doing a texture?
18:40 Jordach rubenwardy, enable indirect lighting and turn the bounces up
18:44 Calinou I guess you need 1 bounce only
18:44 rubenwardy Yeah, any more and it is all read
18:44 rubenwardy red
18:45 rubenwardy I'm fiddling with the things
18:47 Jordach is there anything i don't know about blender
18:48 Calinou Blender has a node editor for making textures
18:49 Jordach Calinou, NeoTextureEditor does that better
18:49 rubenwardy The stairs are now glowing from underneath- I've made sure that there are no diagonal gaps. Any suggestions?
18:49 Jordach rubenwardy, are they a single mesh?
18:50 rubenwardy No
18:50 rubenwardy Is there a stair making modifier?
18:50 Jordach shift + right click them
18:50 Jordach then ctrl + j
18:50 Jordach then enter edit mode, select all with a then remove doubles with the side meny
18:52 rubenwardy zero vertices were removed. They're probably not close enough together?
18:53 Jordach yup
18:53 Jordach you've got mesh gaps
18:53 Calinou <Jordach> Calinou, NeoTextureEditor does that better
18:53 Calinou but perhaps Blender is more powerful?
18:53 Krock eww. always those mathematics http://upload.wikimedia.org/wik​ipedia/commons/d/d8/5-cell.gif
18:53 VanessaE rubenwardy: also make sure you have the snap-to-vertexes option enabled when needed
18:54 VanessaE (the "-> <-" button, with a suitable "doubles" threshold)
18:58 rubenwardy doubles threshold?
19:00 rubenwardy removed 26 vertices, now
19:00 rubenwardy thanks XD
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19:01 rubenwardy Still a glow, though
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19:27 Topic for #minetest is now Welcome to #minetest, the official channel of Minetest | Happy new year | Version: 0.4.11 (2014-12-26) | Responses may take a while, so be patient. | Rules: http://wiki.minetest.net/IRC#Rules | Development: #minetest-dev | Server list: http://minetest.net/servers | IRC logs: http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest/
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19:37 jordan4ibanez Cool, now you can reverse the direction of the engine seemlessly
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19:50 sfan5 jordan4ibanez: the train mod you are making is crazy, crazy awesome
19:51 jordan4ibanez Thank you :D
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20:02 ottodachshund did you know there is a dog breed that has been bred for trolling ducks?
20:02 ottodachshund the nova scotia duck trolling retriever
20:02 ottodachshund it plays romps and frisks at the water's edge the ducks swim close to shore to see what the fuss is about then BOOM the hunter stands up from the blind!
20:02 ottodachshund http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nov​a_Scotia_Duck_Tolling_Retriever
20:12 jordan4ibanez This is the best http://youtu.be/qxNsZ97neeg
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20:48 Polsaker ottodachshund, Tolling != Trolling
20:48 Polsaker :P
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22:34 jordan4ibanez Now they stop and reverse http://youtu.be/B5PP8k8KcIo woooooooooooo
22:35 jordan4ibanez Almost time for creating the first car and attachment code :D
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22:47 VanessaE jordan4ibanez: looking good
22:48 jordan4ibanez Thank you! This track tester is killing me though haha
22:49 VanessaE what model of engine is that btw?
22:49 VanessaE (I mean literally, the real life engine type)
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22:52 jordan4ibanez I honestly have no idea, but it was free so hooray!
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22:55 VanessaE jordan4ibanez: oh ok :)
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23:05 Wayward_One that looks awesome!
23:09 jordan4ibanez Thank you!
23:09 jordan4ibanez I think I'm going to have to use moveto instead of setvelocity, it's a serious headache trying to make setvelocity stable. :/
23:14 jordan4ibanez Actually, maybe not
23:15 VanessaE jordan4ibanez: be sure you test it under a high-lag situation also
23:16 VanessaE e.g. simulate communication delays and high server load, relative to the client, if you can
23:16 jordan4ibanez I would need a server to test it on
23:20 T4im you can set one up locally
23:20 T4im at least to test the high server load
23:20 T4im setting a very bad nice value of the process etc
23:20 VanessaE set one up in a virtual machine, that way you can pause the VM and what-not to "fake" high load/latency
23:20 T4im oh, that's a good idea ^^
23:21 T4im letting the firewall drop a few packets and such D:
23:21 T4im :D
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23:33 jordan4ibanez Good idea!
23:36 Jordach hang the fuck on
23:37 VanessaE hang it on what?
23:37 Jordach how is a velocity which is a constant motion in a vector less stable than a double beizer curve movement (moveto)
23:37 VanessaE Jordach: probably because setvelocity has no target endpoint.
23:37 VanessaE whereas moveto does.
23:39 VanessaE so to use only velocity to track an object when the client or server has an undefined stability or speed, you'd basically have to poll extremely fast to avoid position overruns
23:39 VanessaE versus moveto where you...well...don't.
23:40 jordan4ibanez Yes, exactly
23:40 jordan4ibanez I am doing comparison tests right now
23:41 VanessaE the disadvantage to moveto is that you want movement to be fluid, so you have to keep issuing new position updates *just* ahead of the object reaching each of the previous targets
23:42 VanessaE otherwise it'll stop occasionally (of course, that's what you'd want it to do were the server to lag out)
23:42 Sokomine joined #minetest
23:42 VanessaE pipeworks needs to be updated to use this same function.  right now I think it just uses setvelocity

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