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IRC log for #minetest, 2015-01-09

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:04 carjack ufos how do they work
00:11 Thenextlevel left #minetest
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00:23 chrisf may be even better to ask the OS?
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03:03 exio4 T_T compiling Minetest is slow
03:03 hmmmm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FY8SwIvxj8o
03:03 hmmmm here is proof that country music objectively sucks^
03:03 exio4 1m50s
03:03 exio4 real    1m51.618s
03:04 hmmmm yeah... i'm not sure what happened, but somewhere along the line minetest's codebase exploded in volume
03:04 exio4 the code took like 1m20s~ without overclocking and turbo disabled
03:04 exio4 now with +1.1ghz over stock settings it takes 1m50s
03:04 exio4 like, wat
03:10 gregorycu That's a little slow
03:11 gregorycu Feel free to make it better :)
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03:44 RealBadAngel joined #minetest
03:45 RealBadAngel hi
03:45 RealBadAngel ive just upgraded my box to SSD
03:45 gregorycu hi there RBA
03:45 RealBadAngel i can only say OMFG
03:45 exio4 which one RBA?
03:45 exio4 also hi :p
03:45 * exio4 is going to buy a 120GB ssd next week
03:46 RealBadAngel 120GB Kingston
03:46 acerspyro RealBadAngel: I need to try out that new drug someday.
03:46 exio4 hah
03:46 exio4 the same here
03:46 RealBadAngel theres simply no aviable comparision
03:46 RealBadAngel its blazing fast
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03:46 acerspyro Now
03:46 RealBadAngel boot time is like 3-4s
03:47 acerspyro Where the fuck is VanessaE??? |:[
03:47 RealBadAngel (ofc after bios)
03:47 RealBadAngel shut down is immediate
03:47 gregorycu Man, water is funny
03:47 exio4 which CPU RBA?
03:47 RealBadAngel gimp just shows itself
03:47 gregorycu Drop a bucket at the top of a mountain, and there is so much water everywhere
03:47 RealBadAngel dual core, 1.8ghz
03:47 exio4 http://imgur.com/Ysenu9D,63pFPPb#0
03:48 RealBadAngel and now
03:48 RealBadAngel impact on mt
03:48 RealBadAngel FUCKIN AMAZING
03:48 acerspyro How much does an SSD cost?
03:48 acerspyro RealBadAngel: Better FPS?
03:48 acerspyro I only care bout FPS :P
03:48 RealBadAngel fps?
03:48 RealBadAngel NO LAGS
03:48 exio4 that kingston is 1000 ARS over here
03:48 gregorycu How can FPS be increased with a better hard drive?
03:49 acerspyro idk
03:49 RealBadAngel it is
03:49 RealBadAngel i mean increased
03:49 gregorycu MT is significantly CPU bound for me
03:49 gregorycu lol
03:49 acerspyro MT is ass-bound here.
03:49 gregorycu wait, I'm retarded, I actually have an SSD
03:49 acerspyro Or James Bound
03:49 acerspyro w/e
03:49 gregorycu Which is probably why it's CPU bound
03:49 acerspyro I have an HDD
03:49 acerspyro A pretty shitty one.
03:49 exio4 I have a mirror of 1tb hdds too
03:49 acerspyro 7 years old laptop HDD
03:50 acerspyro :D
03:50 exio4 can't wait for winter
03:50 RealBadAngel loading time of chunks is blazing fast
03:50 acerspyro winter's already here
03:50 acerspyro RealBadAngel: don't burn yourself
03:50 RealBadAngel so there are no visible lags
03:50 exio4 acerspyro, it isn't!
03:50 RealBadAngel mt world just opens
03:50 gregorycu RBA: you can thank Z for that ;)
03:51 exio4 winter means <10C ambient temps => higher frequencies
03:51 acerspyro lol you're over 10c?
03:51 acerspyro Wtf it's -30C here.
03:51 RealBadAngel whatever, im just happy with that drive :)
03:51 exio4 we have 30C right now
03:52 exio4 averages 35~C at 1pm~4pm
03:52 acerspyro cali?
03:52 exio4 what?
03:53 acerspyro Californica?
03:53 exio4 Argentina
03:53 acerspyro oh
03:53 acerspyro Canada
03:53 RealBadAngel about the price its circa 68 USD here
03:53 acerspyro :3
03:53 RealBadAngel definitely worth it
03:53 acerspyro RealBadAngel: For only 120GB?
03:53 acerspyro Can I get some laptop-sized?
03:53 exio4 SSDs are expensive
03:54 exio4 they're laptop-sized by default
03:54 acerspyro Or are they all laptop-sized?
03:54 RealBadAngel this is 2,5''
03:54 acerspyro ok
03:54 acerspyro exio4: They said the same things about hard drives back them
03:54 acerspyro then*
03:54 RealBadAngel i put that one into old laptop for a customer yesterday
03:54 RealBadAngel and now into my box too
03:54 RealBadAngel effect is amazing
03:55 acerspyro lol
03:55 acerspyro I need it into my laptop
03:55 acerspyro Which seems to be slowly disintegrating
03:55 exio4 poor man's SSD is adding 1.5ghz to the stock frequency
03:55 acerspyro TIL that my screen frame started cracking D:
03:55 RealBadAngel imagine time needed from clickin restart and get system operating back
03:55 RealBadAngel 11s
03:56 RealBadAngel half of that time is taken by BIOS
03:56 RealBadAngel fuckin 5 yrs old DELL laptop
03:57 exio4 I let the bios do its cool work
03:58 RealBadAngel i have installed all needed apps
03:58 RealBadAngel system now takes circa 11GB
03:59 exio4 CPU~Hexa core AMD FX-6100 Six-Core (-MCP-) clocked at 1400 Mhz Kernel~3.2.0-4-amd64 x86_64 Up~2:41 Mem~1729.2/11991.5MB HDD~2016.4GB(44.5% used) Procs~91 Client~HexChat 2.10.1 inxi~2.1.28  
03:59 exio4 :p
03:59 acerspyro wtf is circa
03:59 RealBadAngel out of 100GB i gave it. 20GB is for swap
03:59 acerspyro Sysinfo for 'FORTH212.laptop': Running inside KDE 4.14.3 on openSUSE 20150105 (Tumbleweed) powered by Linux 3.18.1-1-desktop, CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i3 CPU M 370 @ 2.40GHz at 1066-2399/2399 MHz, RAM: 3543/3822 MB, Storage: 37/109 GB, 206 procs, 24.25h up
03:59 RealBadAngel acerspyro, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circa
04:00 exio4 also, the 44.5% used is fake
04:00 acerspyro English, French, Spanish, Italian, Croatian, Serbian, German, Dutch, Romanian, Slovak, Slovenian, Czech, Norwegian, Swedish, and Danish
04:00 RealBadAngel learn some latin :P
04:00 acerspyro holy shit
04:00 exio4 it's actually (45*2)
04:00 acerspyro RealBadAngel: I don't know latin
04:00 RealBadAngel actually you do
04:00 exio4 nobody does
04:00 RealBadAngel many words come from latin
04:00 exio4 you know latin words and their meanings because your native lang has them
04:00 acerspyro I couldn't identify it as latin
04:01 RealBadAngel you just dont know the origins of them
04:01 RealBadAngel but all the roads lead to Rome
04:06 RealBadAngel acerspyro, if you had problem with "circa" you will be propably more suprised by that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_numerals
04:08 acerspyro Nope
04:08 acerspyro I knew that
04:13 Zeno` circa is a pretty common term
04:13 Zeno` (in English)
04:16 exio4 btw Zeno`
04:16 exio4 you're a liar!
04:16 Zeno` lol, huh?
04:16 exio4 you said the h60 wasn't worth it
04:16 exio4 (I am buying the SSD next week, by the way)
04:17 Zeno` I did not say that!
04:17 exio4 overclocked the FX at 4.4ghz, and the h60 could keep the temp down
04:17 Zeno` I have a h60 and it's great
04:17 Zeno` I think I said I would buy the ssd first and then the h60 :p
04:18 exio4 yeah
04:18 exio4 but I need to say something that makes you look like an evil guy
04:18 exio4 duh
04:18 Zeno` I didn't mean that the h60 wasn't worth it :P
04:18 exio4 I am not happy though
04:18 exio4 4.4ghz isn't that much
04:19 Zeno` I overclocked my cpu to 4.2ghz (stable)
04:20 Zeno` but it's running at stock (3.5) now
04:20 exio4 stock is 3.3ghz here, but I haven't used it with stock frequencies for like a few months
04:21 Zeno` what's your RAM frequency?
04:21 exio4 1333mhz
04:21 Zeno` that's your next performance mission
04:21 exio4 I have 1600MHz 4gb (kingston hyperx) module and I have overclocked it at 1700~mhz
04:21 gregorycu What's my next performance mission?
04:22 exio4 but 4gb isn't that much, so I bought the cheapest kingston 8gb module I could find
04:22 Zeno` gregorycu, you can upgrade and/or overclock your RAM as well
04:22 exio4 nah, my next goal is more like hdd
04:22 exio4 1tb isn't enough
04:24 Zeno` yeah I should as well: http://pastebin.com/CY59uSSG
04:24 exio4 thanks Zeno`
04:25 exio4 that's 120gb*2 + 2tb*2, right?
04:25 Zeno` yes
04:25 Zeno` the two 120gb are SSD
04:25 exio4 I have 1tb*2
04:26 exio4 Zeno`, RAID 1?
04:26 Zeno` nah. I use the second 2TB hdd as an internal backup
04:26 Zeno` (i.e. it's a backup that gets synced daily)
04:26 exio4 er
04:27 exio4 I would prefer a RAID, it isn't a replacement for backups
04:27 exio4 but for 99% of the things..
04:27 Zeno` once i get my external drive(drives?) setup for making making backups I'll consider that
04:28 Zeno` it's just difficult because I have no spare HDD at the moment that can fit all my data :/
04:28 Zeno` So I have to use 2 external drives and split the backup into 2, which is very annoying
04:29 Zeno` oh you missed my 1TB internal drive as well
04:29 exio4 I am bit paranoid so I like the idea that if a disk starts burning
04:29 exio4 I can just see it burn :D
04:29 exio4 watching a HDD burn..
04:29 Zeno` no thanks
04:30 * exio4 pours petrol over his FX
04:30 Zeno` I've done that before
04:30 Zeno` diesel worked best
04:30 Zeno` had a nice slow burn
04:30 exio4 well
04:31 exio4 I don't have any way to spend all the money at the time for getting a super-high-end computer in a single day
04:31 exio4 but well, SSD+case+PSU+UPS+cooler+thermalpaste is enough for a year
04:32 exio4 Zeno`, btw, what PSU do you have?
04:33 exio4 after that, I am leaving, it's a bit late
04:34 Zeno` EVO Blue something
04:34 exio4 W?
04:34 Zeno` not sure... 1200 I think
04:34 exio4 wat
04:35 Zeno` ?
04:35 Zeno` Thermaltake Evo Blue 750W
04:35 Zeno` I think... I cannot see it
04:35 exio4 1200 is a bit high
04:35 exio4 well! at least something!
04:35 exio4 http://www.thermaltake.com/pro​ducts-model.aspx?id=C_00001829
04:35 Zeno` yes, 750... found the box
04:36 exio4 I have a smart M750W
04:36 Zeno` http://www.thermaltake.com.au/pr​oducts-model.aspx?id=C_00001493
04:36 Zeno` why is it smart?
04:36 gregorycu if(changed == true
04:36 gregorycu Why stop there
04:37 gregorycu Why not if (changed == true == true)
04:37 Zeno` That would not compile
04:37 Zeno` oh
04:37 Zeno` yes it would duh
04:37 gregorycu if ((changed == true) == true)
04:37 Zeno` if (changed == true == !false)
04:38 exio4 heh, mine is supposed to have higher efficiency
04:38 exio4 :D
04:38 Zeno` wtf are you talking about, lol
04:38 Zeno` I mean gregorycu
04:38 exio4 oh wait
04:38 Zeno` higher efficiency... mine is probably an older model I dunno... it's a few years old now
04:39 exio4 apparently mine has an higher peak output too
04:40 exio4 yay something on my computer is better than Zeno`'s :p
04:40 Zeno` :D
04:40 exio4 ONE THING!
04:40 Zeno` you probably have a better gfx card as well
04:41 exio4 I have a GT610
04:41 Zeno` ok, scratch that
04:41 Zeno` gtx680
04:41 exio4 my gpu is crap, I only have a "dedicated card" because the mobo doesn't have an integrated one
04:41 exio4 and decent gpus are too expensive :P
04:41 Zeno` my mobo doesn't have integrated gfx either
04:42 Zeno` but it can take 4 dedicated cards :)
04:42 exio4 http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/M5A99X_EVO/
04:42 exio4 2 x PCIe 2.0 x16 (x16 or dual x8)
04:42 exio4 1 x PCIe 2.0 x16 (x4 mode, black)
04:42 exio4 2 x PCIe 2.0 x1
04:42 exio4 not that many
04:43 Zeno` http://www.gigabyte.com.au/produc​ts/product-page.aspx?pid=4514#ov
04:43 exio4 >10 USB 3.0 ports
04:44 exio4 GIGABYTE 8 series motherboards provide native 4K support with integrated Intel® HD Graphics via HDMI.
04:44 exio4 wat
04:44 exio4 oh, right
04:44 exio4 intel cpus always have an integrated gpu
04:44 exio4 my AMD supports ECC ram tho
04:44 exio4 screw intel
04:44 Zeno` Oh I do have integrated graphics
04:45 Zeno` didn't know that
04:45 Zeno` you have ECC RAM?
04:45 Zeno` I don't :(
04:45 exio4 I said supports
04:45 exio4 when I upgrade my ram, I may try to go for ECC RAM
04:46 Zeno` isn't that pretty expensive?
04:46 exio4 well, I think it's cheaper than your whole setup
04:46 exio4 :D
04:46 Zeno` :/
04:46 Zeno` description: DIMM DDR3 Synchronous 2133 MHz (0.5 ns)
04:47 Zeno` pretty sure it's overclocked though... I'd have to check BIOS
04:47 sofar didn't find this info in the build instructions - is there a way to run the server in a headless mode?
04:47 Zeno` headless mode?
04:47 sofar no graphics, background task, always-on even without players on it
04:47 Zeno` I dunno. I run my server using tmux and detach the session
04:47 sofar that's what I want
04:47 exio4 apparently ECC ram is _at least_ *2.5 the price of normal ram
04:48 Zeno` tmux, screen or some other way of setting it to NOHUP work
04:48 sofar Zeno`: how do you launch it?
04:48 Zeno` sofar are you using linux?
04:48 * sofar should --help
04:48 sofar ofc.
04:48 Zeno` I type...
04:48 Zeno` tmux
04:49 Zeno` then run the server command
04:49 Zeno` then ctrl^D to detach from the tmux session
04:49 sofar I know tmux (use screen myself)
04:49 sofar ahhhhhh
04:49 Zeno` tmux attach to reattach to the session
04:49 sofar never saw the minetestSERVER binary built
04:49 sofar grin, nevermind :)
04:49 Zeno` oh, that would explain your issues then :D
04:49 exio4 good night \o
04:49 Zeno` night exio4
04:54 gregorycu We need to stop using std::list so much
04:58 gregorycu So Zeno, I stood on top of a mountain
04:58 gregorycu And I looked over the vast vista
04:58 gregorycu And dropped a bucket of water
04:58 Zeno` :D
04:58 Zeno` was it beautiful?
04:59 gregorycu There was a lot of water
04:59 gregorycu Anyway, the loopcount peaked at 160
04:59 gregorycu Which I thought was reasonable
04:59 Zeno` yeah that is very reasonable
04:59 gregorycu I played with the algo, and noticed something a little wrong, which I amended
04:59 gregorycu Did exactly the same experiment, and it peaked at 100
05:00 gregorycu Which, you know, is much better
05:00 Zeno` what was wrong?
05:01 gregorycu If you have two nodes, A and B
05:01 gregorycu A is flowing water at a height of 4
05:01 gregorycu That triggers an update for B
05:01 gregorycu B calculates a height of 3 for itself
05:02 gregorycu All good so far
05:02 Zeno` mm hmm
05:02 gregorycu Then B finds neighbours which are air or FLOWING
05:02 gregorycu And then queues them for an update
05:02 hmmmm [11:54 PM] <gregorycu> We need to stop using std::list so much     why
05:03 gregorycu hmmmm: Give me 5
05:03 gregorycu So, then A has an update queued for it
05:03 gregorycu Even thought nothing has changed for A
05:03 Zeno` ahh ok, yeah
05:03 gregorycu And B can have no impact on A
05:04 gregorycu So basically, I've made it before it tries to queue an update for a FLOWING neighbour, it ensures the water level is lower than itself
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05:04 hmmmm ah god dammit
05:04 hmmmm celeron did the same thing with light
05:04 gregorycu ?
05:05 gregorycu Same as my changes, or before my changes
05:05 hmmmm when doing those recursive-decay-type algorithms, there's no checking if it would have any effect at all
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05:05 Zeno` haha
05:05 gregorycu The thing is, it doesn't functionally change anything, it's just a waste of CPU
05:06 gregorycu As far as I can tell
05:06 hmmmm but it sure is an elegant algorithm, right? :)
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05:06 Zeno` lol
05:06 xaivanov -.-
05:06 hmmmm "don't worry about optimizing, optimization is the root of all evil"
05:06 hmmmm :\
05:06 gregorycu Depends what type of optimisation :)
05:07 gregorycu Anyway, I'll create a PR
05:07 gregorycu In a little while
05:08 gregorycu hmmmm: std::list is a bad structure in a lot of cases
05:08 gregorycu It has one great strength, that being inserts in the middle happen in O(1)
05:08 gregorycu However, in a lot of places I see it used, there are no inserts/removes in the middle
05:08 gregorycu It's merely used as a container
05:09 hmmmm it's used mostly to avoid std::vector which has those nasty, costly reallocations
05:09 hmmmm all the previous elements have their destructor called and then they're copied
05:09 gregorycu deque should be used in that case
05:10 Zeno` Oh, it's true... that's why my leap year function looks like this: http://codepad.org/IBDHbHni
05:10 gregorycu Or a vector with reserve
05:10 Zeno` I wanted it elegant and not worry about optimisation
05:12 gregorycu The problem with lists is their horrible cache locality
05:13 gregorycu When used in tight CPU intensive loops, they can really balloon out the runtime
05:13 hmmmm dunno, i think if we're worrying about speed we should preallocate data structures with contigious storage
05:13 Brains *Premature* optimization is the root of all evil.  (That one is right up there with the money/evil quote for being misquoted... )
05:14 gregorycu Which is a vector, right?
05:14 hmmmm possibly
05:14 hmmmm that's possibly implementation dependent, is it not? :)..
05:14 gregorycu Vector is guaranteed to have contigious storage
05:14 hmmmm so where are we using std::list and we shouldn't
05:16 gregorycu An easy example is map.cpp ~3020
05:16 gregorycu std::list<MapBlock*> blocks;
05:17 gregorycu void MapSector::getBlocks(std::list<MapBlock*> &dest)
05:18 gregorycu Anyway, I kinda get the impression that some authors treat std::list as the default container type
05:19 gregorycu When I believe the experts kinda suggest vector should be
05:19 hmmmm agreed, but do we even use ServerMap::save() anymore?
05:21 gregorycu I don't know, that was just the first example I found :)
05:21 gregorycu Well, first use of std::list I found
05:21 gregorycu When you asked me to find one
05:21 hmmmm well, what I mean to ask is where it's a huge performance sink
05:22 gregorycu It's not
05:22 gregorycu It's one of those death-by-a-thousand-cuts kind of thing
05:24 hmmmm well, if that's the kind of thing you want to talk about, minetest is beyond fucked
05:24 hmmmm the main problem with those "oh don't worry about optimization"-types is that they take the slower code path so the code is more "maintainable" or "understandable" or some vague thing like that
05:24 hmmmm so they do this all over the place and it might be 50% slower in one place
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05:25 hmmmm but they all add up and the entire application is 50% slower in no one particular area that can be optimized, because it was the overarching attitude toward performance in the first place
05:25 VanessaE dammit
05:25 hmmmm this can't be solved without a rewrite, basically
05:25 hmmmm switching to std::vector isn't quite going to help
05:27 gregorycu I agree what you're saying, to an extent
05:27 gregorycu I don't think std::list makes the code more maintainable or understandable
05:27 gregorycu It's just a mistake in selection, which can easily be amended
05:28 hmmmm to the contrary, it's less readable thanks to the iterator stuff
05:30 gregorycu Do you know why Netscape lost the browser war?
05:30 hmmmm because they rewrote their browser
05:31 gregorycu Yes
05:31 gregorycu I'm just saying, it's not always the best, I don't think it's that bad
05:32 hmmmm nobody's planning on rewriting minetest
05:32 gregorycu Small iterative improvements will get us to where we need to be
05:33 gregorycu And yeah, not making the same mistakes
05:34 hmmmm http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-6OK2CgfysNQ/U86Jhc​S_OKI/AAAAAAAAurI/O5lNezASrwo/s1600/10373729​_294545550713169_1314239177487458186_n.jpg
05:44 Zeno` I dunno... I quite like that house he built
05:44 MinetestBot [git] Zeno- -> minetest/minetest: Fix facedir > 23 causes segfault in client d576235 http://git.io/v-9OEw (2015-01-09T15:42:03+10:00)
05:45 hmmmm I thought we were waiting for RealBadAngel's input for that
05:45 Zeno` he has inputted on it
05:45 Zeno` inputted is my new word
05:46 Zeno` https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2017
05:46 hmmmm his input has been dually noted and ignored
05:46 Zeno` *shrug* input is input :)
05:46 hmmmm lolol
05:46 hmmmm erm
05:46 Zeno` plus it's causing real life crashes
05:46 hmmmm what's the point of modulo though
05:47 Zeno` 0x1f is 31
05:47 hmmmm are people somehow expecting real functionality from an error case
05:47 Zeno` but only values 0 to 23 are valid
05:47 hmmmm no, I mean the bitmask and the modulo
05:48 hmmmm u8 facedir = getParam2() & 0x1F; return MIN(facedir, 23);
05:48 Zeno` well that's the same thing :/
05:48 Zeno` no no
05:48 Zeno` they want it to wrap
05:49 hmmmm that can't be an arbitrary decision
05:49 VanessaE there we go, that's better, and now I see the errant blocks that caused the crash as well
05:49 Zeno` You mean it should be documented?
05:50 VanessaE zeno, you wanna come take a look at this?
05:50 Zeno` I thought it was documented, but it's been 3 weeks since I looked at it. I'll check again, hmmmm
05:50 hmmmm it's just that I can't see the purpose in wrapping around an error condition
05:50 hmmmm well not like it matters
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06:03 hmmmm :\
06:04 hmmmm i've been wasting my time trying to learn how to script Far Cry 1
06:04 hmmmm the game from '04
06:04 hmmmm the api is undocumented, of course
06:04 hmmmm so i have to RE CryGame.dll in order to find out parameters etc.
06:10 Zeno` or just get the source code
06:11 hmmmm this is probably easier and much safer than haxing ubisoft
06:12 Zeno` heh
06:12 Zeno` I'm sure if you email them they'll give you a copy
06:13 Zeno` Ubisoft are nice people
06:13 kaeza <_<
06:13 hmmmm so I had my hopes up that I would get a job at Sony
06:13 Zeno` Cyrtek probably still has a copy as well
06:13 hmmmm but they canceled The Interview
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06:14 * Zeno` rolls his eyes
06:14 Zeno` lol, that's not even funny
06:14 Zeno` no idea why I'm laughing
06:14 hmmmm but you just lolled!
06:14 Zeno` I know, but I dunno why
06:15 CWz zeno is inchra broken?
06:17 Zeno` I dunno
06:17 Zeno` I'm on it
06:17 Zeno` one of the servers is down I assume because chanserv is not there
06:17 VanessaE horus probably went off
06:18 Zeno` horus is hard... goes off on adventures all the time without telling anyone
06:18 gregorycu Something else we need to not do as much is conditional inserts into sets and maps
06:18 Zeno` Obviously has a god delusion
06:18 gregorycu If the element doesn't already exist
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06:19 Zeno` gregorycu, that may be "left over" code from when everything was converted to using standard data types
06:20 gregorycu Fair enough
06:20 gregorycu Low hanging fruit
06:20 Zeno` Not sure when that happened though... maybe in 0.4.8?
06:20 Zeno` yeah
06:20 Zeno` low hanging rotten fruit :)
06:20 gregorycu I'm trying to make Map::spreadLight a little faster
06:21 gregorycu So maybe you can have 5 players playing on a server, not 4 :P
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06:21 Zeno` My server used to have 15 players consistently
06:22 Zeno` Made it hard to choose a time for backups heheh
06:22 Zeno` somebody always complained
06:22 gregorycu Hmm...
06:22 gregorycu Does sqllite support mirroring?
06:23 gregorycu Anyway, a problem for another day
06:24 Zeno` mirroring?
06:24 Zeno` I think most servers don't really use sqlite now (I don't know, just that everyone I talk to doesn't use it)
06:24 Zeno` obviously rollback still uses sqlite
06:25 gregorycu Mirroring is when one database content can copied to a different database on the fly
06:25 gregorycu The idea is, you establish a mirror to a backup db
06:25 gregorycu Which happens while the thing is online
06:26 Zeno` oh yeah
06:26 Zeno` that'd be nice
06:26 gregorycu And then you terminate the mirror at a point in time
06:26 gregorycu And that's your backup
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06:26 Zeno` would make things a lot easier
06:27 Zeno` at the moment I have a script (which is not enabled in cron because I forgot to put it back, but that's another story) that shuts down the server, rsyncs to a temp dir, brings the server back up and then makes a .bz2 of the temp dir
06:28 Zeno` and I don't trust it because my BASH scripting sucks
06:28 Zeno` I did test my backup a few weeks ago
06:28 Zeno` Encouragingly it did not work
06:29 Zeno` So I made a new script
06:29 Zeno` I should probably test the new script heh
06:29 Zeno` but I don't like downloading the 14GB archive :(
06:29 Zeno` I suppose I could test on the server itself
06:30 VanessaE and then every so often you rsync that over to my box
06:30 Zeno` yeah that's the one that didn't work
06:30 Miner_48er Zeno` can we see your script?
06:31 Zeno` I'd better rsync the latest backup soon
06:31 Zeno` Miner_48er, I'll put it on github
06:31 VanessaE I still need to arrange with someone who has a few hundred gigs free so i can do the same for my backups
06:33 * Zeno` just realised something very bad
06:33 Zeno` I don't have my RSA keys on this computer... can't login to my own server lol
06:33 Zeno` I'd better back them up to a USB key urgently
06:34 VanessaE uh, yeah. :)
06:34 Zeno` forgot that I'd disable user/password logins
06:34 Zeno` disabled*
06:35 * Zeno` wonders which partition and drive they are on, lol
06:35 Zeno` brb, rebooting
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06:44 Nihao Hello, could anyone please tell me how to grind Wheat seed? On Zeno's server I found a mill, on another server, I have electrical grinders (and no mill) but no way to use Wheat seed except planting.
06:45 Nihao Did a lot of searching on the internet. Seems I did not search in the correct places :)
06:46 Zeno` My current script is just a modification of VanessaE's
06:46 Nihao Hello Zeno.
06:46 Zeno` hi
06:46 Zeno` I have a mill? :3
06:47 Nihao Yes, a hand driven mill.
06:47 Zeno` well, this is embarrassing
06:47 Zeno` and it doesn't work?
06:47 Nihao What could we do with all these wheat seeds in the end :)
06:47 hmmmm ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
06:48 Nihao Your mill works.
06:48 Zeno` Oh mine works?
06:48 Nihao Just a bit difficult to use.
06:48 hmmmm why does C++ code with heavy inheritance have to be so difficult to RE
06:48 Nihao hmmm: The dark side of OO.
06:48 hmmmm i don't feel like doing this :(
06:48 ipv6b Is it bad practice to run a minetest server on own working computer?
06:49 hmmmm yes, horrible
06:49 ipv6b why?
06:49 ipv6b only for performance issues or other reasons hmmmm ?
06:49 hmmmm because you're asking a loaded question
06:49 hmmmm i think you expected the answer 'yes'
06:49 Nihao Zeno: I am just about to discover what Lua is, even if programming is not something new to me.
06:50 Nihao Zeno: How to approach the subject in my case?
06:50 Zeno` Nihao, excellent :)
06:50 Zeno` Umm, just dive in?
06:50 Nihao Zeno: Funny.
06:51 Zeno` I was serious though :)
06:51 Zeno` find a mod you want to change or update and go for it
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06:51 Nihao Zeno: You are perfectly right, I am not contradicting :)
06:51 hmmmm :/
06:51 Zeno` (that is, if you're talking about Lua programming for minetest)
06:51 * ipv6b looking up https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_question
06:51 hmmmm does anybody know of any IDA plugin that automatically analyzes vtables and such
06:51 Zeno` you could do some Lua tutorials on the 'net
06:52 ipv6b in short it shouldn't matter, ok I see.
06:52 Nihao Zeno: That is the point. I am not really wanting to start programming in Lua right now. That would be a way of resolving conflicts and one moment or another I *will* end up doing so.
06:53 Nihao Zeno: For the moment, I need guidance to approach the subject: Where is the error?
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06:54 Zeno` What server?
06:54 Nihao game.minetest-france.fr:30000
06:54 Nihao I can share my screen, though network is very poor here.
06:54 Zeno` and what mods do they have installed (you can type /mods)
06:54 Nihao Zeno: . .. .. thousands
06:54 Zeno` great :)
06:55 Zeno` </sarcasm>
06:55 Zeno` Can you ask them?
06:55 Nihao Zeno: I can not copy it.
06:56 Nihao Zeno: I did. For the moment nobody found a solution. I do not want to overload you. If you say you can't look into it, there is no problem.
06:57 Nihao Zeno: There a many, many trees and other plants, which I highly appreciate.
06:57 Nihao Zeno: There are mesecons, industry, ....
07:04 Zeno` VanessaE, how do you use the grinder in technic?
07:04 VanessaE I don't actually remember, except that it requires LV or MV power
07:04 Zeno` hmm
07:05 Nihao Hello VanessaE. The Grinder works. The issue is that wheat seed can not be ground.
07:06 VanessaE I don't know that wheat seed is supposed to be grindable -- into what would you grind it?
07:06 VanessaE what are you trying to make?
07:06 Nihao flour
07:06 VanessaE ah
07:06 VanessaE that's not how you get flour I don't think
07:06 Nihao :) sure
07:06 VanessaE I think you craft the wheat itself directly.
07:07 Nihao One field in the grid
07:07 Nihao ?
07:07 Nihao No result.
07:07 VanessaE four
07:07 VanessaE in a square
07:08 Nihao Like the wheat? No result either.
07:08 VanessaE eh?  I just tried it
07:08 VanessaE works for me in standard minetest_game
07:09 Nihao Sure you take "Wheat seed"?
07:09 VanessaE http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/h​obbies/minetest/screenshots/Screenshot%20​-%2001092015%20-%2002%3a09%3a36%20AM.png
07:09 VanessaE like that.
07:10 Nihao looking it up
07:10 Nihao VanessaE: We totally agree on that recipe.
07:10 Nihao But...
07:11 Nihao I am not talking about "wheat", but about "wheat seed".
07:11 Nihao the grains
07:11 VanessaE hrm
07:11 Nihao That can be planted -- and normally ground, too.
07:11 VanessaE lemme check something
07:12 VanessaE hand mill works fine
07:13 ThatGraemeGuy Zeno`: you place grindable stuff in it
07:13 VanessaE place it, right click, add wheat seeds to the slot on the left, punch the mill repeatedly to grind.
07:13 ThatGraemeGuy Zeno`: https://github.com/minetest-techni​c/technic/blob/master/technic/mach​ines/register/grinder_recipes.lua
07:14 Nihao VanessaE: That is correct. For the hand mill. I do not have it here.
07:14 Nihao Two possibilities: Introduce Hand mill.
07:14 Nihao Or fix Grinder.
07:15 VanessaE and checking technic, there are no recipes for wheat seeds in the grinder therein
07:15 VanessaE the hand mill is in Sokomine's cottages mod (part of random buildings modpack)
07:15 VanessaE grinder doesn't really need "fixed" per se
07:15 Nihao ...which in my eyes is not understandable.
07:16 Zeno` is there a mill in homedecor?
07:16 Nihao OK, I will propose that mod for the server.
07:16 VanessaE it's not really intended for this task, it's more intended for things like grinding metals.
07:16 VanessaE Zeno`: nope
07:16 Zeno` pity the windmill cannot make flour :)
07:16 Nihao I did not find any operational mill except the hand mill.
07:16 Nihao yes
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07:17 Nihao Can we add a recipe to the Grinder or is that bad style?
07:18 VanessaE a recipe can be added, yes, but it's not really the purpose of that device
07:18 Zeno` Thanks ThatGraemeGuy
07:18 Nihao hmmm
07:18 VanessaE raise an issue with the technic team and see what they say
07:18 Nihao OK. ow do I do that?
07:18 VanessaE (I don't really claim the authority to unilaterally decline)
07:18 ThatGraemeGuy you could add a recipe but in your own mod. it would almost certainly be rejected for inclusion in technic itself as those machines are meant to be industrial
07:19 VanessaE Nihao: go here:  https://github.com/minetest​-technic/technic/issues/new
07:20 Nihao ThatGraemeGuy: You should see my farm. It is an industrial farm. Ask Zeno.
07:20 Zeno` yes, it was quite impressive
07:20 Nihao Feels normal to me using electricity to grind wheat seed.
07:20 ThatGraemeGuy where is it?
07:20 Nihao I nurrish some other guys :)
07:21 Nihao Here: game.minetest-france.fr:30000
07:21 ThatGraemeGuy cool I'll check it out later
07:21 ThatGraemeGuy they expect me to spend most of my time doing this "work" thing ;-)
07:21 Nihao Look for Nihao, Arkaim, David or Salbei for information.
07:22 Nihao VanessaE: Thanks for the link. I am filling in the forms, now :))
07:22 Nihao Zeno`: Thanks for popping in and for your support.
07:23 Nihao ThatGraemeGuy: Thanks for your support.
07:23 VanessaE I'm gonna head off to bed now
07:23 VanessaE night all
07:23 ThatGraemeGuy night
07:23 Nihao good night (just woke up)
07:23 Zeno` on mtz there are also the automatic craft bench things, Nihao
07:23 Zeno` night VanessaE
07:23 Zeno` they're from the dungeons mod I think
07:23 Nihao Zeno`: I did not discover that branch, yet.
07:24 Zeno` castles*
07:25 Zeno` So maybe the server owner will consider installing that
07:25 Zeno` The workbench is kind of slow but at least it's automatic
07:25 Nihao I will propose that, once I tested.
07:28 Zeno` come onto MTZ for a sec?
07:29 Zeno` oh it doesn't work for wheat... only wheat seed :(
07:29 Zeno` (other way around)
07:34 Nihao Zeno`: That is what I am searching for: Craft "Wheat seed" to "Flour".
07:40 ThatGraemeGuy mmm
07:41 ThatGraemeGuy no, you grow wheat seed into a wheat plant, then harvest that to get wheat, and craft wheat into flour
07:41 ThatGraemeGuy pretty analogous to real-world farming
07:41 ThatGraemeGuy i know some farmers who'd be happy if they could step the whole planting, growing, harvesting steps :)
07:42 ThatGraemeGuy s/step/skip
07:47 gregorycu lol
07:48 Nihao ThatGraemeGuy: I can not follow your argumentation. The game does not work like this.
07:48 Nihao It does:
07:49 Nihao Put the seed in the correctly prepared ground.
07:49 Nihao Harvest the correct state ==> yields n* Wheat + m * Wheat Seed.
07:50 Nihao USe the Wheat to make straw, flor, etc
07:50 Nihao And use the Wheat Seed to put it in the ground    OR     grind it to flour.
07:51 Nihao I think that is not that bad.
07:52 Nihao You could argument that using Wheat to make flour    AND   using Wheat Seed to make flour is curious.
07:53 Nihao In that case, the harvesting can not yield Wheta and Wheat seed, but only Wheat, which has to be tranformed to Straw and to Wheat Seed.
07:54 Nihao And --once again-- the Wheat Seed has to be ground to have flour.
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08:18 Nihao ThatGraemeGuy: Am I wrong?
08:37 Haudegen joined #minetest
08:38 ThatGraemeGuy there is a point there I suppose
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08:42 rubenwardy Clever spammer: https://forum.minetest.net/memberli​st.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=12428
08:43 ThatGraemeGuy Nihao: now that I give it more thought I think you are actually on to something
08:44 ThatGraemeGuy harvesting wheat gives you the actual wheat which you either replant or grind to flour
08:44 ThatGraemeGuy and it also gives you the grassy part of the wheat
08:45 ThatGraemeGuy the grassy part can be used for straw
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09:12 Nihao ThatGraemeGuy: Where to submit bug reports for AutoCrafter?
09:12 ThatGraemeGuy what is the bug?
09:12 Nihao It eats up the resources from the crafting grid if you try to pile them up inside that grid instead of removing them one by one.
09:13 Nihao They disappear.
09:13 ThatGraemeGuy are you sure?
09:13 Nihao no just kidding
09:13 Nihao ThatGraemeGuy: tHAT WAS THIRD LEVEL HUMOUR. i AM SURE.
09:13 ThatGraemeGuy they are virtual items, if you drop a stack onto the recipe area, 1 item is copied there virtually and the whole stack goes back to your inventory
09:14 Nihao Sorry for the caps.
09:14 Nihao Tried three times, check it out.
09:14 Nihao Place the four wheat
09:15 Nihao Then try to pile them up inside the crafting grid (top left) of the autocrafter.
09:15 ThatGraemeGuy no
09:15 Nihao You will loose all but one.
09:15 ThatGraemeGuy ok you're still not understanding the autocrafter
09:15 ThatGraemeGuy the top left is where you lay out the recipe
09:16 ThatGraemeGuy those are not real items, they are copied and the actual items returned to your own inventory, the 8x4 grid at the bottom
09:16 Nihao OK, sorry, was the lag here. Misunderstanding.
09:16 Nihao I got my items back.
09:16 ThatGraemeGuy the centre grid is 8x3 and there you place the items, wheat in your case
09:17 ThatGraemeGuy the autocrafter takes items from the centre grid, crafts them according to the recipe you laid out and the output goes top right
09:17 Nihao OK (recipe/output/stock/inventory)
09:17 ThatGraemeGuy correct
09:17 Nihao Sorry.
09:18 Nihao I have to be more patient.
09:18 ThatGraemeGuy no problem :)
09:18 Nihao I will come to see you as soon as I undestood the basics.
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09:18 ThatGraemeGuy you will see as well, the more you start automating stuff the more you will realise that you need more and more and more space
09:19 Nihao My workshop is not big enough?
09:19 Nihao Shall I make it bigger?
09:19 ThatGraemeGuy depends how much you want to automate :)
09:19 Nihao Just estimate.
09:20 ThatGraemeGuy you'll see if you look at my setup
09:20 Nihao Point is: The investment is heavy. Our walls make 4 to 5 blocks for reasons of protection.
09:20 ThatGraemeGuy there are sorting tubes, autocrafters, injectors, machines
09:21 Nihao Very difficult to modify.
09:21 ThatGraemeGuy you dont have an area protection mod on that server?
09:21 Nihao We have blocks.
09:21 Nihao Protection blocks.
09:21 ThatGraemeGuy ah ok
09:21 Nihao But it is buggy: You can pass through.
09:21 Nihao I give you a pick and you can enter my house.
09:22 Nihao The only way to "retard" an attack is very difficult to break material + lava in between.
09:22 Nihao To trap attackers there.
09:23 ThatGraemeGuy ew that's ..... just ew :(
09:23 Nihao Not funny. I just came here for the plants and the building + cooperation.
09:23 Nihao I do not like war.
09:23 ThatGraemeGuy oh you're not the server admin?
09:24 Nihao No, but very close.
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09:24 Nihao He is not online yet.
09:24 ThatGraemeGuy see if he'd consider using a different protection mod
09:24 ThatGraemeGuy ShadowNinja's areas mod is very good
09:24 Nihao I will report and I am sure he will folow any recommendation.
09:25 Nihao Is it really linked to that?
09:25 Nihao Just imagine the effort of updating the world!
09:26 Nihao I mean: The areas are protected, you break a stone, it comes back.
09:26 Nihao Just that laps of time gives a vulnerability.
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09:26 Nihao You break one more stne, The wall gives way....
09:26 ThatGraemeGuy that is the case with any protection mod, but any damage will not be permanent
09:27 Nihao Except, tat it permits to pass.
09:27 ThatGraemeGuy people can get in through a wall but no permanent damage can be done
09:27 Nihao They get in and set fire.
09:27 Nihao Or kill.
09:27 Nihao Or steal.
09:27 Nihao Or all of it.
09:27 ThatGraemeGuy ah right i'm used to playing without real fire
09:27 Nihao Humans....
09:28 Nihao Lava destruction.
09:28 ThatGraemeGuy VanessaE has fake fire
09:28 ThatGraemeGuy and for theft you use locked chests
09:28 Nihao OK for theft.
09:29 Nihao But when it says "protected" for an area, why is there a way to enter?
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09:29 Nihao A user does not understand that. The bad guys exploit it.
09:29 khonkhortisan I can take a train through a door last I checked
09:30 ThatGraemeGuy then play on a server without so many bad players :)
09:30 Nihao You need "blast resistant" to avoid it. And that is too expensive.
09:30 Nihao Not a solution.
09:31 Nihao The bad players will always appear sometimes.
09:31 khonkhortisan have the server tell me I'm going in that direction, miss a few packets, I can see the inside of someone's secret house before I get yanked back as the cart stops outside.
09:31 Nihao The point is: The node is not supposed to be broken, why can it be broken?
09:32 ThatGraemeGuy because the client has no idea of protection, it digs the node
09:32 khonkhortisan When you break something and it gets put back? I think there was supposed to be an api change for that.
09:32 ThatGraemeGuy then the server decides that wasn't allowed
09:32 khonkhortisan *client-server message change
09:32 Nihao Interesting.
09:33 khonkhortisan you seeing it get dug is simple client prediction
09:33 Nihao khonkhortisan: Hello. Does it mean that my prolem will be resolved?
09:34 Nihao problem*
09:34 khonkhortisan I haven't been keeping track of it.
09:34 Nihao I mean: What I describe, is it supposed to be like that, or is there a technical reason maaking it compulsory?
09:35 Nihao a-
09:35 ThatGraemeGuy its like that because protection was implemented on the server side
09:35 ThatGraemeGuy there needs to be significant work to make it better
09:35 ThatGraemeGuy so for now its good enough
09:36 Nihao Whith standard material, we need at lest two layers of obsidian, one layer of lava and another layer of obsidian to make a building a bit safer.
09:36 Nihao least*
09:37 Nihao That is nuclear shelter building.
09:37 ThatGraemeGuy until someone makes a mk3 mining drill and gets through anyway :)
09:37 Nihao yep.
09:37 ThatGraemeGuy if you're on a server with badly behaved players, there's no technical fix for that
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09:38 Nihao So actually, the philosophy of the game is: You can not hide, you can not run, die with your boots on.
09:38 khonkhortisan my favourite room is a wireframe lava cube, with walls made of inward-facing pistons, with a player detector under the center of the room.
09:39 khonkhortisan The room gets bigger, and lava flows down the walls onto the floor.
09:39 Nihao MK§ does what to it?
09:39 Nihao MK3*
09:39 Nihao Tried that?
09:39 ThatGraemeGuy Nihao: the game has no philosophy, its up to the server admin to define the rules for the server and find ways to enforce them
09:39 khonkhortisan Was that an AltGr?
09:40 Nihao No
09:40 Nihao no AltGr
09:40 khonkhortisan oh I just noticed - 你好吗?
09:40 Nihao ThatGraemeGuy: understood. I am discussing, not complaining.
09:40 Nihao :)
09:41 Nihao khonkhortisan: Sorry, I do not read these.
09:41 Nihao Genki deska?
09:42 Nihao Anyway, guys, thank you very much for listening and for your support. Makes me want to come back :)))
09:42 khonkhortisan romanized japanese?
09:42 Nihao Yes.
09:42 khonkhortisan What I typed was chinese. I have yet to be fluent in a second language.
09:43 Nihao But do not try to test me :)))    I only speak   F / E / G
09:43 khonkhortisan parlez-sprechen inglés? :P
09:43 Nihao for instance
09:43 Nihao :)
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09:44 Nihao If I start playing less, I might dive into Lua, really liked the description on Wiki.
09:44 khonkhortisan I do wish freenode supported more types of characters in usernames
09:45 Nihao That makes it more difficult to write them . . .
09:46 khonkhortisan maybe even if they required the first letter to be normal, to mostly be able to tab complete
09:46 Nihao .....on a channel with 400 users.
09:46 Nihao Good luck!
09:47 khonkhortisan heh - I guess each network has its own language's characters
09:47 khonkhortisan But I'm also someone who wants to see "≤" in programming code
09:48 Nihao The point is: I am not an english native speaker, many people on this channel aren't, either. But we can use this alphabet.
09:49 Nihao Remark: For reasons of lisibility, I do not want to see that character you mentioned in our sources.
09:49 * khonkhortisan learns a new word
09:49 Nihao I invented one?
09:49 Nihao Happens to me all the time.
09:49 khonkhortisan legibility
09:49 khonkhortisan in french spelling
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09:50 Nihao no
09:50 Nihao readability I wanted to write.
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09:50 khonkhortisan ah.
09:50 Nihao Now, I know that you do not speak french....   :)
09:51 khonkhortisan Ça va? ← nor that one.
09:51 Nihao And for your AltGr thing: On my keyboard, 3 and § are on the same key :)
09:52 Nihao Ou, ca va bien, et toi.
09:52 Nihao ?
09:52 Nihao Hai, genki!
09:52 khonkhortisan How do you get to §? I press compose+o+s
09:53 Nihao As I told you: It is on that key.....I press the key and I get it. Just that SHIFT separates it from 3.
09:54 khonkhortisan I was sure ca va was portuguese, but it's french.
09:54 Nihao :)
09:54 khonkhortisan oh, where I have #. I was thinking it was third-level.
09:55 Nihao OK, I have to build some MT machines to reduce my cobble to glass.
09:55 Nihao Join in, if you want to see us on the french side o the world :)
09:56 * khonkhortisan git pulls 2957 objects
09:57 Nihao That gives you an awful lot of time . . . .
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09:57 khonkhortisan What server?
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09:58 Nihao game.minetest-france.fr:30000
09:58 Nihao I am just discovering...
09:59 brothersome How is the lag on that server?
09:59 Nihao IRC channel is #minetest-france
10:00 khonkhortisan hehe (saluton)
10:00 khonkhortisan *pretending to not know the difference between french and esperanto
10:01 Nihao Is that you, who joined?
10:02 khonkhortisan no, halfway through compiling.
10:02 khonkhortisan I use this nickname everywhere
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10:08 khonkhortisan The fonts in minetest look a little small. I think it's because my monitor stopped specifying EDID and my xorg.conf DPI isn't being honored.
10:09 khonkhortisan whoops, wrong texture pack (too much memory) I'll rejoin
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10:57 catninja_ well I seem to bugg on mintestforfun
10:57 catninja_ I'm walking one node down from ground level
10:57 catninja_ anyone have any idéa of how to fix this?
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11:52 brothersome catninja I place a block and stand on it and then do home, some servers has this problem
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14:43 MinetestBot [git] Jeija -> Jeija/minetest-mod-mesecons: Merge pull request #199 from 163140/master 3c82e2f http://git.io/fDMBHw (2015-01-09T15:43:18+01:00)
14:43 MinetestBot [git] 163140 -> Jeija/minetest-mod-mesecons: Making glue from any sapling f02ccdf http://git.io/5R7aEg (2015-01-09T11:54:32Z)
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15:58 MinetestBot [git] kahrl -> minetest/minetest: Fix logic of checkbox formspec element validity checking 2ab97a7 http://git.io/ltz8Rg (2015-01-09T16:57:54+01:00)
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16:07 MinetestBot [git] Zeno- -> minetest/minetest: Removed superfluous facedir check in mapblock_mesh.cpp 3c8e372 http://git.io/0ef64w (2015-01-10T02:06:33+10:00)
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16:36 rubenwardy Hi all!
16:37 Calinou hi rubenwardy
16:37 Calinou chess? :p
16:37 Calinou Lichess got opening puzzles
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17:06 Lugal joined #minetest
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17:16 Lugal hello
17:17 Lugal I wonder: Does it unnecessarily increaly the file-size of my world, when I use flying mode, and fly very very high??
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17:23 Lugal ??
17:23 Calinou Lugal, probably, yes, just a bit
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17:25 est31 Hello is Jeija online? another mesecon mod maintainer?
17:26 ipv6b joined #minetest
17:26 marktraceur No Jeija, looks like.
17:26 marktraceur est31: What do you need?
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17:27 est31 you are maintainer? I just wanted to check back a change before i submit a pr
17:28 Lugal so the empty sky is being saved into my file? :O
17:28 Lugal can I undo this?
17:29 Calinou not in a simple way
17:29 Calinou it is possible, but complicated
17:29 Calinou (using some Python script posted on the forum)
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17:30 est31 marktraceur even if not perhaps you can explain me why these lines are present at all:
17:30 est31 https://github.com/Jeija/minetest-mod-meseco​ns/blob/f69caba03674d04be960344baea308159219​b081/mesecons_movestones/init.lua#L113-L117
17:31 est31 pistons have a simple "if success"
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17:33 PilzAdam Lugal, the contents of mapblocks are compressed, and since they only contain air it should rather small
17:33 PilzAdam how high is "very very high"?
17:33 marktraceur est31: They look like they're present.
17:34 marktraceur Oh.
17:34 marktraceur est31: It's the same thing, just backwards
17:35 marktraceur I imagine.
17:35 est31 no. what it does is move the piston anyway, deleting the first block of the stack to be pushed
17:35 est31 s/piston/movestone/
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17:36 est31 thats not what stoppers are for
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17:36 est31 stoppers should stop the movestone or piston
17:40 Lugal "very very hight" in my case = to cloud level and then double or triple height @PilzAdam so would this consume much?
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17:41 PilzAdam Lugal, eh, thats not really high
17:41 PilzAdam you shouldn't be concerned
17:41 harrison how will these events impact the most vulnerable among us? one wonders
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17:58 jonatjano Hi everybody
18:04 Kalabasa hello
18:04 ipv6b catninja, Did you have an ipv6 address?
18:06 est31 PilzAdam, Lugal, an air mapblock takes 81 bytes. a normal mapblock takes .1 to 1 kb
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18:07 est31 does the database deduplicate?
18:08 Lugal ok
18:08 Lugal shouldnt bee to much then^^
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18:11 ipv6b benoliver999, compunerd, daswort, gethiocs I noticed you have IPv6 addresses. If you know of an IPv6 compatible server plz tell me. If you want you can test to see if you can connect to the IPv6 minetest server I'm hosting at the moment.
18:11 benoliver999 lol I didn't even realise. I'm running a ZNC instance on a VPS
18:12 ipv6b oh, ok, then I guess I won't query you again, if you only have an IPv4 address :)
18:12 ipv6b cause without IPv6 its impossible to test out ;)
18:12 benoliver999 Yeah my ISP doesn't do IPv6 sadly.
18:15 Calinou I have one too, ipv6b
18:15 est31 when does minetest reload mods?
18:16 est31 do I have to restart just the local server or the whole application?
18:16 ipv6b Calinou, Would you like to test if you can connect to my server? I can send you the ip
18:16 Calinou restart the local server, est31
18:16 Calinou no need to restart client
18:16 ipv6b or just check my ip here. It's the same.
18:18 ipv6b Somebody here once gave me an IPv6 address to a Russian server I think but I couldn't connect.
18:18 ipv6b Thx :)
18:18 Calinou works
18:18 ipv6b awesome. I'm happy :)
18:18 Calinou I didn't have to enclose the address in []
18:18 ipv6b yes, either it was you or somebody else who told me that [] are unnecessary because the port and ip are on separate fields
18:19 ipv6b its only in firefox one has to use [] because there isn't a separate field for ip and port.
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18:24 ShadowNinja Nihao: Protection mods don't prevent people from passing through walls.  It just takes one line of code to bypass privilege checks and use fly and noclip.
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18:29 ipv6b While I'm waiting for somebody interested to join the server, if you know of any IPv6 minetest server please let me know.
18:30 * Krock can't use IPv6
18:31 Calinou my ISP (SFR) has IPv6 since a while now
18:36 Krock openDNS is better than my ISP' DNS server
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18:38 ipv6b My server contains little or no mods.
18:38 est31 marktraceur, the bug im investigating is this: http://pbrd.co/1tRm7pa => http://pasteboard.co/eAuPO6Z.png
18:38 ipv6b Also no /spawn and no /sethome nor /home
18:38 Calinou talking about DNS… http://nsupdate.info/ and http://hopper.pw/ might be useful to server hosts
18:39 est31 when you place the movestone on the left
18:40 est31 this doesnt happen with pistons
18:40 ipv6b I logged out with the admin, then I logged in as testuser1 and guess what, the admin account was still there, until a few seconds later when it timed out. Could it be that my hardware is that slow?
18:42 Krock hmm I wonder if a VPN can let me access IPv6 servers
18:42 est31 there are ipv6 vpns
18:42 Calinou ipv6b, sometimes, clients don't disconnect properly
18:43 ipv6b I had set this in my minetest.conf file "address = 2a01:3b8:1624:aaaa:e4a5:7003:eb2a:5556" but in gedit it asked for a reload while running the server and it changed it to "address = ::". Can I leave it at this setting and will people still be able to connect through the internet?
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18:45 ipv6b Also it changed the value "public_serverlist" from true to false. Does that mean that IPv6 addresses won't show up on the public serverlist?
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18:46 Krock ipv6b, public_serverlist setting does not change anything server-sided
18:46 Krock that's used for the GUI
18:47 Calinou public_serverlist is a client variable
18:47 ipv6b ok
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19:26 Zurok Hello!
19:26 marktraceur Hi Zurok!
19:26 Zurok Wow, didn't knew about this game.
19:27 Zurok There is a server where I can play with others?
19:27 Zurok Uh
19:27 Zurok Never mind
19:27 Zurok http://minetest.net/servers
19:28 est31 marktraceur, any idea how to fix this
19:28 marktraceur est31: Not a clue, sorry.
19:33 Calinou hi Zurok
19:33 Zurok Calinou: Hey! What's up?
19:33 * Calinou is playing Stunt Rally
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19:35 rubenwardy Ah, Russia http://rusadvocat.com/node/996
19:35 rubenwardy I read that with google translate. I can't actually read Russian.
19:36 rubenwardy Better link, http://www.buzzfeed.com/lesterfeder/russia-bans-​people-with-disorders-of-sexual-orientation-from
19:39 Krock rubenwardy, proller might help you translating it :P
19:39 Zurok Calinou: Searching for a nice server to play. :)
19:39 rubenwardy You can get the gist of it
19:40 Krock thx
19:41 rubenwardy Gays should be banned from driving as they always do their make up in the car. And what if they are distracted by listening to Madonna?
19:41 rubenwardy </satire, kind of>
19:42 marktraceur rubenwardy: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Friends_of_​gays_should_not_be_allowed_to_edit_articles
19:45 rubenwardy lol
19:55 Krock lovely article
19:56 Krock somehow this is similar to stupidedia
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20:36 est31 marktraceur, found a solution
20:36 est31 but it makes the blocks being pushed earlier on
20:36 est31 dunno if it looks worse
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20:42 Jordach marktraceur, that's so meta
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20:59 est31 marktraceur, also the solution makes movestones being created into objects and back again. all time. does this cause lag?
20:59 marktraceur I have no idea why you are still pinging me
20:59 est31 aren't you associated to mesecons mod?
21:00 est31 wont ping ya :9
21:02 Jordach nope
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21:32 kaeza greetings
21:36 MinetestBot [git] ShadowNinja -> minetest/master-server: Attempt to improve server sorting a359eb4 http://git.io/TVHTKQ (2015-01-09T16:34:21-05:00)
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21:40 Krock ^ this commit makes it possible to manipulate the rank by increasing the game time
21:40 Krock until 8 months
21:45 sfan5 Krock: we are aware
21:47 kaeza it was possible to manipulate the "rank" by connecting lots of "Guest" users anyway
21:47 kaeza at least this is (or tries to be) saner
21:48 Ataron joined #minetest
21:48 * kaeza meows at sfan5
21:48 * sfan5 meows at kaeza
21:49 kaeza :3
21:49 MinetestBot [git] ShadowNinja -> minetest/master-server: Attempt to improve server sorting f7a4481 http://git.io/-js-_g (2015-01-09T16:48:03-05:00)
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22:06 ipv6b Does my server show up in the list? It should be the only IPv6 server I suppose.
22:10 Krock ipv6b, http://servers.minetest.net/
22:13 ipv6b not found
22:13 ipv6b thx Krock
22:13 * ipv6b closing the server
22:13 Krock it only actualizes every minute
22:14 ipv6b Somebody tried out minetest today, just to play on my server :)
22:14 ipv6b I had it online for 4 hours and 11 minutes now
22:14 MinetestBot [git] ShadowNinja -> minetest/master-server: Add scheduler timezone 2a5242e http://git.io/CQfKmw (2015-01-09T17:13:55-05:00)
22:14 MinetestBot [git] ShadowNinja -> minetest/master-server: Fix clients_max field name 3e59b9c http://git.io/E1QlaA (2015-01-09T17:13:11-05:00)
22:14 Krock don't forget to portforward when using local server
22:15 ipv6b Well, it was an IPv6 only server, maybe that's the problem
22:15 ipv6b the other person managed to connect to my server through IPv6 just fine. I had already done the thing that needed be done in the firewall
22:16 sfan5 ipv6b: servers.minetest.net should support v6 too
22:16 ipv6b sfan5, well it does when I connect through http
22:16 sfan5 ipv6b: server ip?
22:17 ipv6b well, right now I have it disabled. I can fire it up again just for testing...
22:17 sfan5 please do
22:17 ipv6b ok.
22:18 ipv6b 2a01:3b8:1624:aaaa:e4a5:7003:eb2a:5556
22:18 acerspyro I wish the server list was easier to run thru.
22:18 acerspyro Main menu should use all the screen space available, instead of cramping itself into one tiny area.
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22:19 ipv6b sfan5,  I don't have an IPv4 address right now. Could that be a problem?
22:19 sfan5 ipv6b: nah
22:20 sfan5 !up 2a01:3b8:1624:aaaa:e4a5:7003:eb2a:5556
22:20 MinetestBot sfan5: invalid address
22:20 sfan5 gg
22:20 sfan5 64 bytes from 2a01:3b8:1624:aaaa:e4a5:7003:eb2a:5556: icmp_seq=10 ttl=54 time=28.9 ms
22:20 sfan5 ping works
22:20 ipv6b cool :)
22:20 acerspyro Does MineTest even supports IPv6?
22:21 acerspyro I guess that's a stupid question.
22:21 sfan5 acerspyro: yes
22:21 ipv6b I just played with another person through IPv6.
22:21 acerspyro does master server list support IPv6?
22:22 sfan5 acerspyro: yes
22:22 ipv6b While you're at it, if anybody wants you can try connecting to my server, if you have an IPv6 address :)
22:23 ipv6b so far only 1 has connected maximum. No more players have connected than that. I only started it today :) . No mods are enabled other than the default.
22:24 acerspyro I can't ping it, tho
22:24 ipv6b but I have lots of packet drops on my NIC, maybe that could cause connectivity and delay problems
22:24 ipv6b "RX packets:5176466 errors:0 dropped:53735 overruns:0 frame:0"
22:24 sfan5 ipv6b: does it announce it the server list?
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22:25 ipv6b sfan5, what do I need to type in minetest.conf for it to do that?
22:25 ipv6b sorry, I didn't do my research
22:25 sfan5 ipv6b: server_announce = 1 i think
22:26 acerspyro Stupid question, is it normal that I can't ping it?
22:26 ipv6b oops, not present
22:26 ipv6b sorry.
22:27 ipv6b acerspyro, do you know any command to look up how many ip addresses you have?
22:27 ipv6b or where to look?
22:27 acerspyro What do you mean
22:27 acerspyro On your server?
22:27 ipv6b acerspyro no on your machine
22:27 ipv6b you will need an IPv6 address to ping me
22:27 acerspyro oh yeah, in my Plasma network applet
22:28 acerspyro I see both IPv4 and IPv6
22:28 acerspyro But my external IP shows as IPv4
22:28 ipv6b In Ubuntu I ping with a command called ping6 to ping IPv6 addresses.
22:28 Ambitious_One Hey guys, how many concurrent users can access the $5 hosting plan from digital ocean and how much bandwidth is used for a single user?
22:28 acerspyro oh, didn't know about that one
22:28 ipv6b but that's on Ubuntu. I don't know what you use.
22:29 acerspyro Network is unreachable
22:29 ipv6b so on your system it might be called something else
22:29 acerspyro I'm on OpenSUSE
22:29 acerspyro Nope, it's ping6, and it says network unreachable
22:29 ipv6b oh...
22:29 ipv6b but if you do ping6 google.com it works?
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22:30 acerspyro nope
22:30 sfan5 2a01:3b8:1624:aaaa:e4a5:7003:eb2a:5556 is up (0.02367ms)
22:30 sfan5 success
22:30 acerspyro is it on the server list now?
22:30 sfan5 ipv6b: the serverlist code doesn't support v6 yet
22:30 ipv6b yes, it was that variable you gave me sfan5 that made it work I think. Thanks for all your help :)
22:30 ipv6b oh.
22:31 acerspyro Aah
22:31 acerspyro Bitch I guessed it!
22:32 ipv6b Though I'm happy I could even play with somebody using IPv6 with minetest. Minecraft doesn't support IPv6.
22:32 * ipv6b closed down the server again
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22:44 Trixar_za Don't know what you guys did, but 0.4.11 is blisteringly fast compared to 0.4.10
22:44 acerspyro We're magicians. You should know that.
22:45 Trixar_za I'm getting 35+ FPS on my PC and ~60FPS on servers. It's nice ;P
22:45 Wayward_One that's mostly thanks to Zeno` :D
22:46 Wayward_One ...if not completely lol
22:50 hmmmm phueh
22:51 hmmmm lesson learned:  don't use irp->UserBuffer for writing output for buffered ioctls
23:14 casimir I dislike the new server sorting. (mine is last)
23:17 Wayward_One i just realized it changed lol... how are they sorted now?
23:18 casimir In a much to complicated way: https://github.com/minetest/master-server/com​mit/f7a448123f69d5096900bba9e8c670069facb31a
23:22 air the client uses python?
23:23 est31 its on the server
23:23 est31 the server sends a sorted list the client doesn't change the sorting.
23:23 CraigyDavi Oh yey finally new server sorting!
23:31 ShadowNinja casimir: "mine is last" isn't a valid reason to change it.  You might be able to improve your score from the other factors.
23:32 ShadowNinja (unless your server is objectively better than many of the others)
23:33 casimir (it is) ;)
23:33 ShadowNinja casimir: Is yours the one with the clients_max of 1000?  You get penalized for unrealistic clients_maxs.
23:34 casimir no the Voxelgarden one. But actually I don't care about the ranking. The server only was intended to be for experiments.
23:36 ShadowNinja casimir: To improve your rating: 1. Improve your ping 2. Leave your server up for a few more months.  3. Wait until your server's got an hour of uptime.
23:36 ShadowNinja (since last restart)
23:37 ShadowNinja Er, NVM about the ping.
23:37 ShadowNinja How'd you get a 1ms ping?
23:37 acerspyro magic!
23:38 casimir I have no idea. But lag is always 404...
23:39 air so servers are ranked by their ping to the master server, even though the client might be closer to them?
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23:40 * Jordach smells stupid ideas
23:41 ShadowNinja air: Yes.  The server doesn't know where the client is.  It's only a small factor though, and you'll do fane as long as your ping is less than a few hundred ms.
23:42 ShadowNinja fine*
23:44 casimir Do you know where the masterserver is hosted? Maybe it is the same company.
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23:45 est31 casimir, do whois 151.236.29.36
23:46 est31 (I guess the python script runs on the same host servers.minetest.net is)
23:47 casimir Ha, Amsterdam. The same city my server is. That explains why ping is now 0. :D
23:48 est31 0 really? not 1 not 7?
23:48 casimir According to the server list.
23:49 est31 your server is ... ?
23:50 acerspyro Can we have a skins collection embedded into the master server?
23:51 casimir it is Voxelgarden
23:53 ShadowNinja acerspyro: Yes, but that's a pretty big addition.
23:54 acerspyro Meh, in a separate server
23:54 acerspyro just a skin db
23:54 ShadowNinja One of the bad parts of being so well known in the Minetest community: half of the time someone's stollen your name on a server.
23:55 est31 we could also have accounts managed there
23:55 acerspyro lol
23:55 acerspyro Well, they can check me on this server
23:55 ShadowNinja acerspyro: addi has a skin DB.
23:55 acerspyro Since I have nickserv protection.
23:58 est31 the main argument against a central account db is that a change is hard to do.
23:59 acerspyro how so

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