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IRC log for #minetest, 2014-12-24

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Time Nick Message
00:06 turtleman_ joined #minetest
00:19 electrodude512 joined #minetest
00:26 proller joined #minetest
00:47 Jordach http://labs.echonest.com/Uploader/​index.html?trid=TRZTQPP13D3F108854 notbad.png
00:50 electrodude512 joined #minetest
00:53 SylvieLorxu "Sorry, this app only supports MP3s"
00:53 SylvieLorxu To the trash with it!
00:54 SylvieLorxu I don't even have a single MP3...
00:54 Jordach you know where libLAME is
00:54 SylvieLorxu I don't have MP3 support
00:55 Jordach ooh
00:55 Jordach today is the release of 0.4.11
01:01 kaeza joined #minetest
01:21 kaeza greetings
01:26 MinetestBot [git] paramat -> minetest/minetest: Increase indentation throughout file for clarity. Correct mistakes. Shorten lines. Make more consistent 03beb59 http://git.io/YMzsrg (2014-12-24T11:23:48+10:00)
01:26 MinetestBot [git] paramat -> minetest/minetest: State biome API heat and humidity noise parameters in positional format 4287480 http://git.io/biHViQ (2014-12-24T11:23:48+10:00)
01:38 proller joined #minetest
01:47 Viper168 joined #minetest
01:49 Zeno` joined #minetest
01:49 Zeno` kaeza, is that checkbox bug still there?
01:49 * Jordach meows at kaeza
01:50 blaise joined #minetest
01:50 blaise joined #minetest
01:54 Akagi201 joined #minetest
01:58 JS|Laptop joined #minetest
01:58 whatsupdoc joined #minetest
01:59 kaeza Zeno`, one sec
01:59 * kaeza purrs at Jordach
01:59 Jordach kaeza, seen the kitten mobs?
02:00 kaeza nope. link?
02:01 JS|Laptop Jordach, Please unmute me on #minetest from where you see Onez server it's me johnsen on laptop. i dont want any trouble
02:02 Jordach there
02:02 JS|Laptop Thankyou.
02:04 shadowzone joined #minetest
02:06 gregorycu joined #minetest
02:07 Jordach kaeza, http://youtu.be/BjtY-0ai9ZE
02:07 JS|Laptop Uh
02:07 JS|Laptop Im trying to join #minetest but it seems  to not work
02:08 JS|Laptop Jordach i left #minetest and trying to join again but it is not working
02:09 gregorycu But you're here?
02:09 JS|Laptop Yes u left the other minetest
02:09 JS|Laptop Oh wair
02:09 JS|Laptop wait
02:11 JS|Laptop There much better
02:11 JS|Laptop here ill be afk
02:12 gregorycu The other minetest ey?
02:15 Zeno` yep "the other minetest" :)
02:18 kaeza Zeno`, lockup still happens
02:18 Zeno` this is not good :)
02:18 gregorycu How ya going Zeno, sorry about disappearing mid-chat about a week ago, internet fucked up, and then I went camping lol
02:19 gregorycu Is this still the windows bug?
02:20 Zeno` that's ok gregorycu
02:20 Zeno` kaeza, I got a Windows toolchain working... but wrong compiler! (ugh)
02:20 gregorycu Me too :(
02:21 gregorycu Um... we think this is a race condition, right?
02:21 kaeza Zeno`, "wrong compiler"?
02:21 Zeno` there is speculation that it is... but *shrug* dunno
02:21 gregorycu I'm guessing he, like me, is using visual studio
02:21 gregorycu Not mingw
02:21 Zeno` kaeza, yeah, I somehow ended up with "TDM"
02:22 kaeza the what
02:22 Zeno` tdm-gcc
02:22 gregorycu uh... wtf is that?
02:22 kaeza Zeno`, where did you get mingw?
02:22 Zeno` anyway I couldn't replicate with tdm. The other thing I did differently was compiled all the libs myself
02:23 Zeno` kaeza, I gave up installing MinGW and got Code::Blocks because it said MinGW was included (but it turned out to be TDM-GCC)
02:23 kaeza Zeno`, http://sourceforge.net/projects/​mingw/files/Installer/mingw-get/
02:23 gregorycu TDM looks to be a package with mingw
02:24 Zeno` kaeza, are you going to be around for a bit?
02:24 kaeza yep
02:24 gregorycu Me too
02:24 Zeno` ok well I'll reboot into Windows
02:24 Zeno` may need directions :)
02:25 Zeno` joined #minetest
02:25 Zeno` ok
02:25 Zeno` link again please?
02:26 kaeza http://sourceforge.net/projects/​mingw/files/Installer/mingw-get/
02:26 Zeno` This will be my 6th and final copy of MinGW hopefully
02:27 kaeza specifically, this one: http://sourceforge.net/project​s/mingw/files/latest/download
02:27 kaeza err... http://downloads.sourceforge.net/proje​ct/mingw/Installer/mingw-get-setup.exe
02:27 Zeno` yep
02:27 Zeno` installing...
02:30 jojoa1997 joined #minetest
02:31 gregorycu kaeza, do you know what procmon is?
02:33 Zeno` I bet it's process monitor
02:33 Zeno` :D
02:33 gregorycu ;)
02:34 kaeza gregorycu, that looks useful
02:35 gregorycu What I'm hoping is that it will show an error that will hint at what's going on
02:35 gregorycu If it's a race condition
02:36 Zeno` Pretty sure it's a bit higher level than that, but worth a shot I guess
02:36 gregorycu Yeah
02:36 Zeno` Anything is worth a shot at this point. Even beer
02:36 gregorycu You think some XXXX is in order?
02:36 Zeno` well, not XXXX.. How about something tasteful :D
02:38 gregorycu Are you sure you're from queensland?
02:38 Zeno` Positive
02:39 Zeno` Apparently it's "Queensland's Beer" but I know of nobody who actually drinks it
02:39 Zeno` ok! cmake time
02:40 gregorycu Just like Fosters, being Australias beer
02:42 kaeza WTH
02:42 kaeza it does not lock up now under gdb
02:42 gregorycu Race condition
02:43 kaeza also, it's flooding the console with "warning: Invalid parameter passed to C runtime function."
02:43 gregorycu Heizenbug
02:43 gregorycu That could be... usual
02:46 gregorycu Wait
02:46 gregorycu Does it hang when it crashes?
02:47 gregorycu If it does, attach the debugger AFTER it crashes
02:47 kaeza it does not crash at all
02:47 Zeno` well, that may explain why I was not reproducing it using gcc-tdm
02:48 gregorycu I mean, when you're not attaching GDB to start off with
02:48 Zeno` I wonder if it's DEBUG builds in general or LuaJIT
02:49 gregorycu I better clarify, under any conditions can you get it to crash?
02:51 kaeza no, it is rock solid (that's new for MT)
02:51 kaeza don't understand what you mean
02:53 Zeno` grrr
02:53 Zeno` unit tests
02:53 Zeno` built!
02:53 Zeno` I told you it was gonna be 6th time lucky
02:53 kaeza lol
02:53 kaeza inb4 SIGSEGV
02:54 Zeno` have to rebuild. Forgot CURL support
02:54 gregorycu hmm...
02:56 gregorycu I may have found something
02:57 gregorycu I'm taking a look at serverlist.cpp
02:58 gregorycu There is no locking in that file
02:58 gregorycu However, two different threads use those functions
03:02 Zeno` sheesh, you'd better not fix it before I even get a working build considering I rebooted into Windows and everything!
03:02 Zeno` j/k :P
03:06 gregorycu Even if I found a problem, I can't be sure it's THE problem
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03:16 Zeno` Does it have to be THE problem?
03:16 Zeno` Can't we just fix something random?
03:20 Zeno` umm kaeza
03:20 Zeno` I am not getting the lockup
03:20 kaeza huh
03:20 Zeno` the only difference I can think of now is the libs: I built them and didn't use sfan5
03:20 Zeno` s
03:21 Zeno` there was one I didn't build myself but that's all... it's in the issue
03:21 kaeza then it means one of sfan5's libs is busted
03:21 Zeno` I dunno, but my build works
03:22 kaeza but that's other problem
03:24 gregorycu Yeah, I can't trigger the problem
03:24 gregorycu With sleeps etc.
03:26 kaeza Zeno`, while you're on Windows, can you test sfan's build to see if you can reproduce?
03:26 kaeza (linked in the issue)
03:26 gregorycu Where is the build?
03:27 gregorycu I couldn't reproduce with that build, 32 nor 64 bit
03:27 gregorycu Good luck Zeno
03:27 kaeza so WTH is going on here
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03:38 gregorycu kaeza: So, you can reproduce?
03:39 gregorycu If so, are you able to attach gdb after it's segved
03:39 gregorycu And then print the stack?
03:43 Zeno` I don't think it segfaults
03:43 Zeno` from the issue description it just gets stuck in an infinite loop
03:44 Zeno` but I can't get it to do anything unexpected. Probably the first time in a long time I wish it'd segfault lol
03:44 gregorycu We need kaeza to "breakin" and do a stackdump
03:45 gregorycu When it's happening
03:45 Zeno` yep
03:45 gregorycu Unfortunately he doesn't seem to be here, I don't know if he can repro or not
03:46 Zeno` At least I can build on Windows with all three compilers now
03:46 Zeno` :D
03:47 kaeza joined #minetest
03:47 hmmmm what's the build this happens with?
03:47 hmmmm I'll try to reproduce it
03:47 hmmmm hopefully minetest will run in a vm
03:48 Zeno` hmmmm, umm... kaeza's build (is it on the forum?)
03:48 kaeza Zeno`, hmmmm, there's a build linked in the first post of the issue
03:49 gregorycu kaeza: Are you able to do a breakin and stackdump?
03:49 Zeno` Maybe I should try and make a build using sfan5's pre-built libs
03:49 kaeza this one https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/30267​315/Minetest/minetest-0.4.11-rc1-win32.7z
03:50 kaeza gregorycu, I have no idea how to use gdb besides basic stuff
03:50 gregorycu kaeza: Neither do I
03:50 gregorycu But it shouldn't be difficult at all
03:51 hmmmm 32 bit or 64 bit??
03:51 gregorycu https://sourceware.org/gdb/​onlinedocs/gdb/Attach.html
03:51 kaeza hmmmm, the issue on GH does not specify which; I have 32 bits here
03:52 gregorycu And then https://sourceware.org/gdb/online​docs/gdb/Backtrace.html#Backtrace
03:52 hmmmm you were able to repro with that?
03:52 kaeza yeah
03:52 hmmmm what is the chance of success in reproducing do you observe?
03:53 hmmmm is it like 1 in 20?
03:53 kaeza 100%
03:53 nully_ joined #minetest
03:53 kaeza (it is fixed as specified in the issue by entering a SP world and leaving)
03:54 hmmmm so if it works for me the first time, I shouldn't have a problem reproducing it after that
03:55 hmmmm woot
03:55 gregorycu !
03:55 hmmmm OpenGL Warning: VBoxCrHgsmiCreate failed
03:56 gregorycu Well, is it fucked?
03:57 Zeno` the old VBoxCrHgsmiCreate failed bug, huh
03:57 hmmmm i just check the public serverlist checkbox, right?
03:57 gregorycu Start game, click that checkbox, try and start SP game
03:57 hmmmm well regardless I found another unrelated bug
03:57 kaeza hmmmm, yeah, but it locks up before showing the mainmenu if you have public_serverlist = true in .conf
03:57 kaeza (it also*)
03:57 hmmmm remind me:  fix tab_server.lua:119 attempt to index local 'world' (a nil value)
03:59 hmmmm lol
03:59 hmmmm well it runs like shit but it actually runs in-game
04:00 kaeza random: could it be related to number of CPUs?
04:00 hmmmm yeah I'm not able to reproduce it at all
04:00 gregorycu How many CPU's you ahve kaeza?
04:00 hmmmm i'm assuming the GetDirListing() issue in that build was fixed??
04:00 kaeza I have a dual core here. AFAIK both you and Zeno` have something like octocores or something
04:01 gregorycu hmmmm: It's getting discussed in #minetest-dev
04:01 kaeza err quadcore
04:01 gregorycu 4 cores for me
04:01 hmmmm ugh
04:02 hmmmm cranking it up to 4 cpus..
04:03 hmmmm odd, windows isn't seeing the multiple cores
04:03 gregorycu A single backtrace would be amazing
04:04 kaeza gregorycu, I'm not sure how could I get a BT given that it doesn't segfault, and I'm not sure where to break either
04:05 gregorycu What does it do?
04:05 gregorycu Just get stuck?
04:05 kaeza yes
04:05 gregorycu When it gets stuck, backtrace is then
04:05 gregorycu it
04:05 gregorycu So, start the thing
04:05 gregorycu Repro the bug
04:05 gregorycu Then start gdb
04:05 gregorycu Attach to the process, and then break
04:05 gregorycu And then bt
04:06 hmmmm you ctrl+c in the debugger
04:06 hmmmm it'll break and then you do a bt full
04:07 gregorycu The reason I really want you to do this is you're the only one that can repro, if you tell us what the stack looks like, we can narrow it down greatly
04:13 kaeza I'm not able to get a useful backtrace from attaching
04:13 kaeza #0  0x77583541 in ntdll!DbgBreakPoint () from C:\Windows\SYSTEM32\ntdll.dll
04:13 kaeza #1  0x775ed279 in ntdll!DbgUiRemoteBreakin () from C:\Windows\SYSTEM32\ntdll.dll
04:13 kaeza :/
04:13 hmmmm kaeza, try thread apply all bt full
04:14 hmmmm you're attaching after it already froze??
04:15 hmmmm start it from within the debugger and then break when it freezes
04:16 gregorycu He can't repro with gdb attached
04:16 hmmmm o
04:16 gregorycu Why can't he attach and break?
04:16 hmmmm he can, but he's getting useless backtraces
04:17 gregorycu I don't know enough about gdb, but he shouldn't be...
04:17 kaeza if MT is run directly from gdb it does not freeze
04:17 kaeza hmmmm, https://gist.github.com/kaeza/a631fd73040bf77a02ab
04:18 hmmmm lol it doesn't give you any backtrace information above system library calls
04:19 gregorycu ...
04:20 gregorycu It's like it's deliberately being an arsehole
04:22 hmmmm maybe we can make educated guesses and add print statements around where we suspect might be the problem
04:22 hmmmm watch this make it not freeze^
04:23 gregorycu So do we know why gdb is not being that helpful?
04:23 hmmmm well it doesn't have anything to do with having symbols or not having symbols
04:24 hmmmm above the system libraries the RA is 0 or 0x0000321 or something like that
04:24 hmmmm it's having issues with unwinding the stack for whatever reason... i'm inclined to believe it's merely gdb retardation
04:25 hmmmm can he try windbg or visual studio's debugger instead?
04:25 hmmmm or ollydbg perhaps :-)
04:26 gregorycu I would have suspected gdb would have been the best bet considering it was built with the mingw toolchain
04:32 gregorycu kaeza: Can you paste your minetest config somewhere
04:33 someguy_irc joined #minetest
04:39 kaeza https://gist.github.com/kaeza/d438aa47aeabdfbdd62b
04:42 gregorycu Thanks
05:05 hmmmm can confirm the missing stack frames are GDB retardation.
05:05 hmmmm ollydbg does not have this issue
05:06 hmmmm kaeza:  if you're still there, try using ollydbg to get a backtrace
05:06 gregorycu I gotta admit, I'm a little excited to find out what it is
05:07 hmmmm sapier has made lots of bugs like this before :)  it's probably a race condition on accessing globals
05:08 gregorycu Why isn't he the one debugging this :P
05:08 hmmmm he takes breaks from minetest for a while and then dips back in with rather high intensity
05:08 hmmmm makes a flurry of super productive commits and then disappears
05:08 gregorycu hmmmmm
05:08 gregorycu Urgh, not you
05:08 gregorycu Just thinking
05:08 hmmmm i'm the same way though
05:09 hmmmm my life hasn't been extremely busy though
05:09 gregorycu Yeah, but it sucks when you create bugs
05:09 hmmmm so minetest it is
05:09 gregorycu What parts of minetest do you work on
05:10 hmmmm mapgen
05:10 gregorycu I want to get into the modapi
05:10 gregorycu While making a mod
05:10 hmmmm well that's not very interesting
05:11 hmmmm everybody is into the modding api in the sense that whenever they add a feature to whatever their domain is, they have to add an api for it
05:11 gregorycu Indeed
05:11 gregorycu Ironically that's my job at my real job
05:11 gregorycu I'm an architecture dude
05:12 gregorycu Gotta provide features that people want
05:12 gregorycu Without them getting too specific
05:13 gregorycu What's the difference between a tool and a craft item?
05:14 gregorycu Apart from the fact that a craftitem can't have wear
05:14 hmmmm i have no idea
05:14 gregorycu Not your domain :P
05:15 hmmmm i never even made a mod :/
05:18 gregorycu Tools don't stack by the way
05:19 hmmmm that's it?
05:19 hmmmm that should not be the distinction between tools and items
05:19 hmmmm that should be a parameter, "max stack"
05:20 hmmmm that's how minecraft does it anyway... so you have some really "advanced" items that are allowed one item per stack, and then some "better than average item" that only allows 16 per stack, etc.
05:20 gregorycu I'm beginning to think the distinction is useless
05:20 gregorycu Or rather, arbitrary
05:21 hmmmm haha lots of things are like this
05:22 hmmmm there are constructs technically very close yet distinct because of historical reasons and then whatever distinguishing features were removed or shifted somewhere else
05:22 hmmmm and then nobody merged them
05:22 kaeza hmmmm, I'm getting a more useful BT, but all the symbols are in hex like `minetest.CAFEBABE`
05:22 hmmmm kaeza:  that's because you don't have the symbols loaded
05:23 hmmmm which you won't have if that's a release build you're running
05:23 kaeza it's a debug build
05:23 hmmmm oh sweet
05:24 kaeza running MT directly from ollydbg eliminates the freeze like in gdb, and attaching to the process just gives that
05:24 hmmmm maybe you could go to those raw memory addresses in the disassembler window and check for some telltale strings and match the function that way
05:25 kaeza I've tried running `nm` grepping for the addresses
05:25 hmmmm hrmm, not sure why it's not reading the debug symbols since they're included in the executable
05:25 gregorycu We are slowly making kaeza a developer
05:25 kaeza this will take a while...
05:26 kaeza hmmmm, does ollydbg support whatever debug info format gcc output?
05:26 kaeza +s
05:26 gregorycu Where did you get the build from?
05:26 kaeza self-built
05:26 hmmmm it should..
05:27 hmmmm yup basically you're right
05:27 hmmmm ollydbg will only read symbols generated with msvc
05:28 gregorycu lol
05:28 gregorycu That's alright
05:28 gregorycu Can we get a .map file
05:28 gregorycu Is .map gcc or msvc
05:28 hmmmm I think msvc
05:29 gregorycu Looks like gcc too
05:29 hmmmm oh cool
05:29 gregorycu Anyway, a .map file contains a mapping between symbols and addresses
05:29 gregorycu If we generate the map file, we can cross reference manually the addresses to the symbols
05:30 hmmmm gotta rebuild it with -Map=output.map
05:30 hmmmm rather -Xlinker -Map=output.map
05:30 gregorycu We are getting closer
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05:58 Zeno` gregorycu, just to distract you... are you able to create a new world?
05:58 gregorycu Yes
05:58 gregorycu v6 minetest ?
05:59 * Zeno` sighs a big sigh of relief
05:59 Zeno` anything
05:59 Zeno` v6 is fine :)
05:59 gregorycu Yep
05:59 Zeno` thank @*$(@*$(
05:59 gregorycu Just did it then
05:59 Zeno` I am doing something wrong :)
05:59 Zeno` Which is good (obviously)
06:00 Zeno` It's been so long since I've used Window maybe I don't even have write permissions where I think I should
06:00 gregorycu Wait
06:02 gregorycu ERROR[main]: ServerMap::loadMapMeta(): could not open C:\Users\Greg\Documents\Visual Studio 2013\Projects\minetest\Releas​e\..\worlds\Fun1\map_meta.txt
06:02 gregorycu That error displays itself, but everything seems to play fine
06:02 Zeno` yeah, but it should continue?
06:02 Zeno` Yep, that is known
06:02 Zeno` cool. Thanks
06:02 gregorycu ok
06:02 gregorycu Good
06:03 gregorycu And when I delete it, GetDirListing: FindFirstFile error. Error is 267.
06:03 gregorycu A stack of them in the console
06:03 gregorycu it = world
06:04 ThatGraemeGuy joined #minetest
06:04 Zeno` Yeah, SN has a patch for that
06:05 gregorycu Ok
06:05 Zeno` If you test he can merge
06:05 Zeno` http://sprunge.us/CJYZ?diff
06:05 Zeno` I'd test but I can't even create a new world :/
06:06 someguy_irc joined #minetest
06:08 gregorycu Yep, no more errors
06:09 gregorycu Want me to thumbs up it somewhere?
06:12 MinerDad joined #minetest
06:18 Zeno` yep
06:19 someguy_irc yo Zeno`
06:20 Zeno` hiya ;)
06:23 someguy_irc grrrr
06:25 gregorycu He'll be back soon
06:32 someguy_irc okay.
06:33 someguy_irc !tell Zeno` you know I / MTZ-Basic misses Mesecons ;~;
06:33 MinetestBot someguy_irc: I'll pass that on when Zeno` is around
06:33 ThatGraemeGuy mesecons are too advanced for basic :p
06:34 someguy_irc sorta but a new spark of opportunity.
06:34 gregorycu What is Mesecons?
06:34 kaeza hmmmm, the stack on ollydbg is the same as on GDB, except for some calls to JSemaphore::WaitEv
06:34 someguy_irc Redstony in Minetest i.e Mesecony
06:35 ThatGraemeGuy on VE-Survival cheapie has just laid a cable to the ziggurat Bluebird is building
06:35 someguy_irc O.O
06:35 kaeza I can provide copypaste of the various threads' stacks and map file if desired
06:35 ThatGraemeGuy because ancient mesopotamia totally had nuclear power :)
06:35 gregorycu kaeza: Yes, please do that
06:35 gregorycu Maybe there should be a mintest_advanced
06:35 gregorycu minetest
06:36 ThatGraemeGuy there is
06:36 ThatGraemeGuy it called "use minetest_game and add the mods you want"
06:37 ThatGraemeGuy or use dreambuilder and go completely nuts with options
06:37 gregorycu Yeah...
06:39 kaeza gregorycu, hmmmm, call stacks: https://gist.github.com/kaeza/8620775e7d028fb3b793 | map file: https://www.dropbox.com/s/a6as​fmo9qsyzg64/debug.map.gz?dl=0 (~450KB)
06:39 gregorycu Thank you
06:46 gregorycu So, a lot of threads are waiting, that's to be expected
06:46 gregorycu You have intel graphics
06:46 kaeza yep
06:47 gregorycu This looks opengl related, are you able to test with direct3d
06:49 kaeza nope
06:49 gregorycu No?
06:50 kaeza both sfan's build and mine are built without D3D support
06:50 kaeza (actually, Irrlicht)
06:50 gregorycu What about software?
06:51 kaeza huh
06:51 gregorycu Software rendering
06:51 kaeza indeed it does not lock up with SW driver...
06:51 gregorycu This looks to be something to do with intel's opengl driver
06:51 gregorycu I don't know what, but it's a start
06:52 gregorycu Are you able to paste details of your driver?
07:00 kaeza not sure if this is enough: https://gist.github.com/kaeza/930247fcfd6ca9781e2e
07:00 sol_invictus joined #minetest
07:00 gregorycu No that's good
07:01 gregorycu So, in summary, we have a setting related to public server lists causing glBegin to hang
07:01 gregorycu Fuck me
07:02 gregorycu I need someone who understands how the graphics works here
07:04 hmmmm huhh?
07:04 hmmmm glBegin isn't the problem
07:05 gregorycu Why not?
07:05 hmmmm how is it even possible
07:05 hmmmm seems like a red herring
07:05 gregorycu Look at the callstacks
07:05 gregorycu Who can repro, and who cannot
07:05 gregorycu And what are the graphics cards of these people?
07:05 gregorycu I have an ATI, can't repro
07:06 gregorycu (bb in 20 min)
07:06 hmmmm the threads we're looking at are 0001280, 00000bb4, 0000838, and 00001e4
07:07 hmmmm glBegin was calle from Irrlicht.69F8A1BF whatever that is
07:07 hmmmm that's the main thread... is it the main thread freezing that's the issue?
07:07 deltib joined #minetest
07:11 hmmmm if i had the assembly output of those offsets i would probably figure out the call stack faster than i would trying to figure out how to manually apply a .map file to offsets
07:14 hmmmm oh yay this was easier thani thought
07:16 jin_xi joined #minetest
07:19 gregorycu Those 4 threads are waiting for work
07:19 gregorycu The main thread (assuming it's not spinning) looks stuck
07:19 hmmmm well I think that's the cause of the freeze
07:19 hmmmm they're all waiting for work
07:20 gregorycu There is nothing wrong with that
07:20 hmmmm but who's the producer
07:20 hmmmm i feel like this is missing a huge chunk of the call frame
07:20 hmmmm all of them are just calls to JSemaphore::Wait()
07:20 gregorycu I don't know, but presumably the main thread sets it up after it's initialised the graphics
07:21 gregorycu Shit
07:21 gregorycu glBegin is a drawing function
07:21 gregorycu Not an initialisation function
07:21 hmmmm in any case I can't find 0x00409B64 in the map file
07:22 hmmmm it would really be a lot quicker if we just looked at the disassembly at that address
07:22 hmmmm kaeza, could you send me that exact binary you were using?
07:22 kaeza hmmmm, one sec
07:23 hmmmm oh durr
07:23 hmmmm those JSemaphore::Waits are all called from AsyncEngine::getJob()
07:23 gregorycu Job is just a task right?
07:23 hmmmm it's some sapier thing
07:23 gregorycu lol
07:23 hmmmm oh duh
07:24 gregorycu "some sapier thing"
07:24 hmmmm no wonder why I couldn't find that address in the linker map
07:24 hmmmm it's some function + an offset
07:24 kaeza hmmmm, just the binary or the entire thing?
07:24 hmmmm just the minetest.exe
07:27 kaeza it will take a while with this crappy connection; the zip is 22M (82M unzipped)
07:27 hmmmm incredible
07:28 gregorycu huh?
07:28 hmmmm ehm
07:28 hmmmm nevermind that
07:28 hmmmm it's only called from one place
07:29 hmmmm so we have these 4 AsyncWorkerThreads that are doing nothing and the only other thread that can produce things is busy rendering
07:30 gregorycu hmmm...
07:30 gregorycu We should be expecting more threads
07:30 hmmmm indeed
07:30 hmmmm MAINMENU_NUM_ASYNC_THREADS == 4
07:31 gregorycu No
07:31 gregorycu I mean, we should be expecting those dudes to Die
07:31 gregorycu And get joined against the main thread
07:31 hmmmm don't see why
07:31 gregorycu And new threads to get spawned for the game
07:31 hmmmm they just keep going on until stop is requested
07:31 gregorycu ServerThread, ConnectionSend, ConnectionRecieve threads etc.
07:31 hmmmm which is in the AsyncEngine dtor
07:32 gregorycu Should be 7 threads
07:32 gregorycu And a few ntdll ones
07:32 hmmmm those don't exist until the IGameDefs are created
07:33 gregorycu So, this is happening before those async threads are getting joinde
07:33 hmmmm they get joined when the game starts
07:34 gregorycu So this is happening before the game starts :P
07:34 hmmmm obviously
07:34 hmmmm this is probably completely obvious to the person who wrote it :p
07:34 gregorycu Hey, I like to be explicit
07:37 gregorycu ...
07:38 gregorycu AsyncEngine::~AsyncEngine() smells
07:43 gregorycu I have an especially bad feeling about line 109 and 110 of jthread.h
07:44 hmmmm what of it
07:44 hmmmm in any case, that's definitely not related to the issue we're observing
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07:46 gregorycu I'm not so quick to discount it
07:46 CWz_ joined #minetest
07:48 gregorycu Actually we probably can
07:48 gregorycu I really wish people wouldn't optimise stupid shit that has no impact on performance
07:49 gregorycu I'm not sure destroying threads has to be lockfree
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07:56 kaeza hmmmm, https://dl.dropboxusercontent​.com/u/100008207/minetest.zip
07:57 Zeno` I am guessing kaeza does not want to sleep
07:57 kaeza hope that helps; pushing that through a 256kbps pipe is not exactly...uhh, fast
07:58 gregorycu How quickly do you get the server list from the server?
07:58 kaeza gregorycu, most of the time it just times out
07:58 gregorycu hmm...
07:59 gregorycu That is worth simulating
07:59 kaeza ...should've said that before, right?
07:59 gregorycu It's something I meant to check
07:59 kaeza Zeno`, was waiting for that upload to complete. I'll soon be off
07:59 Zeno` :)
08:00 Zeno` kaeza, but... you don't really need sleep
08:00 Zeno` not for at least 2 weeks anyway
08:00 Zeno` after that you kind of go crazy
08:00 kaeza I have to "get up" in 2 hours :/
08:00 gregorycu curl
08:00 Zeno` for work?
08:01 kaeza yep
08:01 * Zeno` is glad he is not in kaeza's shoes :/
08:01 gregorycu Work sucks
08:01 gregorycu I can't work with anything less than 6 hours
08:01 gregorycu I call in sick
08:02 kaeza I should complain to my boss. he's a real bastard
08:02 kaeza in an unrelated topic, I'm self-employed
08:03 gregorycu You bastard!
08:03 * Zeno` goes and looks at the first bad commit again
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08:11 kaeza okay, I'm off for today. good night all
08:11 gregorycu Goodnight and thank you for the help
08:11 kaeza sure :)
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09:28 carbust does anyone sleep at nights?
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09:33 Krock yes.
09:34 Calinou it is not night here right now :)
09:34 Krock ^
09:35 Krock although, I didn't sleep much this night :(
09:38 gregorycu I don't sleep
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09:38 gregorycu I can sleep when I'm dead
09:38 Krock ok
09:38 redstonecraftPL hi, any idea why minetest freezes on joining to server?
09:39 redstonecraftPL I try to join VanessaE survival
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09:39 Krock redstonecraftPL, try to join VE realtest and you'll wait for 10 minutes and get an avvess violation after that
09:39 Krock *access violation
09:40 Krock or with some luck, you can join the server and lag out only 30s after joining
09:40 * Krock 's perspective
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09:41 redstonecraftPL so JUST TRY JOINING?
09:41 redstonecraftPL i have better idea
09:41 Calinou you have to be patient for data downloa
09:41 Calinou +d
09:41 Krock yeah. check if the server is online first
09:41 Calinou however, some builds are buggy
09:41 Calinou which operating system do you use? which build?
09:42 gregorycu Out of interest, what do you guys work on?
09:42 redstonecraftPL newest, 32bit, this left
09:42 redstonecraftPL lets try this right
09:43 Krock gregorycu, nothing. I've holidays those days.
09:43 Calinou newest, 0.4.10 or a daily build?
09:43 Calinou Windows?
09:44 redstonecraftPL yep, win32. On debian 64 bit it works fine xD
09:44 sfan5 Zeno`: i could no reproduce the freezing issue with the win64 build
09:45 redstonecraftPL But this is 32bit
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10:16 Zeno` sfan5, I can't reproduce it either. This is terrible :)
10:27 Krock Aargh. A 1:17 min video takes 15 minutes to upload >.<
10:27 Krock only 22 MB, c'mon....
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11:05 TriBlade9 Merp
11:05 redstonecraftPL ?
11:06 TriBlade9 Just droppin in
11:06 TriBlade9 Merry Christmas Eve!
11:06 redstonecraftPL thx
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11:59 karamell how to disable whisper?
11:59 mitrom Talk louder
12:00 mitrom rm -fr
12:00 mitrom it's rf ...
12:01 mitrom my space bar is rather flappy right now
12:03 exio4 mitrom, -fr works too
12:03 exio4 rm -r -f == rm -f -r == rm -rf == rm -fr
12:05 mitrom yup
12:07 SylvieLorxu "rm -fr" sounds like "remove french"
12:08 exio4 I wouldn't use -fr, it would be like using -de!
12:08 gregorycu If only we could
12:08 gregorycu If only we could
12:08 SylvieLorxu rm -gregorycu
12:08 gregorycu left #minetest
12:09 mitrom lol
12:10 gregorycu joined #minetest
12:10 gregorycu I'm back
12:11 Zeno` 2 hours until Christmas!
12:11 gregorycu 1 hour
12:12 gregorycu You idiot
12:12 mitrom what
12:12 Zeno` 1?
12:12 mitrom are you high
12:12 gregorycu Can't you count
12:12 gregorycu Yes
12:12 Zeno` ok, 1 hr 53 minutes until Christmas!
12:12 gregorycu It's 11PM where I am, in Melbourne
12:12 gregorycu 11:12PM to be exact
12:12 exio4 worst day of the year*
12:12 exio4 also, over here, it is just 9am
12:12 Zeno` yeah well, Melbourne has a bug
12:12 mitrom yup
12:12 gregorycu The love bug
12:12 mitrom rm -rf christmas/
12:12 gregorycu And it's infectious
12:13 Zeno` 10:12PM here
12:13 gregorycu See, that's just silly
12:13 mitrom 12:13
12:13 Zeno` Melbourne is on daylight savings to save coal during time of war (apparently)
12:13 SylvieLorxu If someone speaks Dutch: http://www.speld.nl/2014/12/23/ker​stalarm-afgegeven-voor-nederland/
12:13 gregorycu Also to enjoy more sun
12:14 Zeno` gregorycu, yeah and make your curtains fade faster
12:14 Zeno` too much sun == increase in curtain fade and also skin cancer
12:14 gregorycu Not enough sun == Tasmanians
12:15 gregorycu I'll take the skin cancer thanks
12:15 exio4 what is that sun you are all talking about
12:15 gregorycu Sol
12:15 Zeno` Not to mention no "savings" at all because since WW2 things have changed and we no longer go to sleep when the sun goes down hehe
12:15 exio4 I heard stories about it from some outsider, but I've never seen it!
12:16 Zeno` I'm pretty happy about this release
12:16 Zeno` if #2000 was included I'd be super happy, but I'm still happy
12:18 Zeno` let's release it before crazy northern hemisphere people wake up
12:18 gregorycu Yeah, I saw that
12:18 gregorycu Looks good
12:19 exio4 south people ftw!
12:19 * exio4 hugs Zeno` & gregorycu
12:19 gregorycu Where you from exio4?
12:19 Zeno` group hug!
12:19 * Amaz is a crazy northern hemisphere person!
12:20 Zeno` hehehe Amaz
12:20 exio4 Argentina
12:20 Zeno` Amaz, I am a crazy southern hemisphere person
12:20 Amaz :D
12:21 Amaz So is 0.4.11 going to be released today, all being well?
12:22 Zeno` Can't think why not
12:22 Zeno` it's a solid release (IMO)
12:22 Amaz :D
12:22 Amaz It has had ~2 weeks of feature freeze.
12:22 Amaz So it had better be good ;)
12:22 Zeno` (aka dev holiday)
12:22 Zeno` lol, j/k
12:22 Amaz XD
12:23 Amaz And of course, it has all of your speed improvements, Zeno`!
12:23 Zeno` all but one
12:24 Zeno` even without that one it's more than 2x as fast as 0.4.10 so I'm not too fussed if the last one doesn't make it in. Although I'd like it to ;)
12:24 Amaz :D
12:25 Zeno` maybe more than 2x as fast. I'll profile after 0.4.11 is done heheh
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12:26 Zeno` plus main.cpp and game.cpp are approaching readable now (instead of 3000 line functions hehe)
12:27 Amaz XD
12:28 exio4 the only readable code I ever saw so far, was written in Haskell
12:28 exio4 well, readable and beautiful!
12:28 exio4 if you write that C api Zeno`, I'll start to work in a Haskell interface
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12:30 Zeno` I kinda put the C API on hold
12:30 Zeno` maybe next release...
12:34 mitrom exio4, haskell is bad
12:35 mitrom It's like the swahili of the programming world
12:36 exio4 it is evil, yes, after you learn it, all languages look ugly and imperative
12:36 SylvieLorxu https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRbY3TMUcgQ
12:37 mitrom you talking about swahilians?
12:37 mitrom or whatever they're called
12:37 mitrom parasites
12:37 exio4 also, why is it bad :p
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12:39 mitrom I h8 haskell
12:39 mitrom its just
12:39 mitrom googling it crashed mozilla
12:40 SylvieLorxu mitrom: You use Mozilla? Interesting, not many people do
12:41 mitrom ...
12:41 SylvieLorxu People tend to prefer Firefox over Mozilla because Mozilla tends to have a lot of features most people don't care about
12:41 mitrom Wait what
12:41 mitrom they're different things...
12:41 mitrom Mozilla's the company, ain't it?
12:41 exio4 I hated Haskell until I learnt it
12:41 exio4 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ #haskellproblems
12:41 SylvieLorxu Well, Mozilla got renamed to SeaMonkey: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SeaMonkey
12:42 mitrom * Now talking on #haskellproblems
12:42 * mitrom installs
12:42 * mitrom wants to be a minority
12:43 mitrom unaffiliated/hacker
12:43 mitrom wow
12:43 * Krock likes Netscape Navigator
12:43 * mitrom likes netcat
12:43 exio4 Zeno`, what are the most decoupled parts of minetest right now?
12:43 exio4 I'll need to work next year, and I'm thinking of reworking parts of minetest using Haskell
12:44 * Krock has never seen any haskell scripts/programs
12:44 mitrom ...
12:44 mitrom maskell
12:45 mitrom im writing minetest in lolcode
12:45 exio4 vry hax0r
12:45 exio4 much exio
12:45 exio4 netcat? psh, real men use butterflies
12:45 Zeno` exio4 are you sure anything at all is decoupled?
12:45 exio4 have you seen any functional programming language, ever? :p
12:45 exio4 if I show you any, it'll look like brainfuck (if you haven't)
12:46 mitrom lol
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12:46 mitrom real men use emacs
12:47 exio4 Zeno`, that is why I said "most", in related to ALL the code!
12:47 exio4 the thing that only interacts with 80% of the codebase, not 100%
12:47 exio4 sorry, not 100% but 99.99%
12:47 exio4 uh, I can't english today
12:47 PilzAdam joined #minetest
12:48 mitrom I feel sorry for https://isitchristmas.com/
12:48 exio4 Zeno`, sorry
12:48 exio4 :P
12:49 mitrom lol
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12:49 Zeno` exio4, I'm not really sure TBH
12:49 mitrom mouse wars
12:49 mitrom https://isitchristmas.com/
12:49 Zeno` there it lots of stuff...
12:50 * mitrom is the one with the UK flag in the top right
12:50 exio4 Zeno`, by easier, I mean, like, compared to all the other code, I don't think rewriting the mapgen or the scripting api would be actually easIER! :D
12:53 Jordach Krock!
12:53 Krock wat
12:53 Jordach u want sum texture
12:53 Jordach link to your game
12:53 Krock https://github.com/SmallJoker/base_game
12:53 Jordach swag1 m8
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12:56 exio4 you are SmallJoker Krock? today I learned :P
12:57 Krock exio4, no. It's just someone who copies my thoughts and avatars
12:57 Jordach Krock, https://mediacru.sh/41f75a3b8cd6
12:57 Jordach hit download album and rename appropriately
12:57 Krock ty
12:58 Jordach i really should add jungles into BFD
12:58 Jordach they've been missing too long :)
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13:05 Krock Jordach, I already had a good normal-wood texture, but the junglewood looks much better now :) https://github.com/SmallJo​ker/base_game/commit/b2ae
13:06 Krock Diffrent wood textures are generally not bad. junglewood isn't like regular wood.
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13:10 Krock http://i.imgur.com/oeyWTDf.png
13:12 Jordach then again BFD is more and more looking like Terraria fucked Dwarf Fortress
13:13 mitrom http://puu.sh/dHJ35/1172cee6f4.png
13:13 mitrom Don't try this at home
13:13 mitrom Well, i didn't
13:15 MinetestBot [git] Zeno- -> minetest/minetest: Large increase in performance 8621e6d http://git.io/C92FkA (2014-12-24T23:13:24+10:00)
13:15 Jordach yes pls
13:15 Jordach <3 zenie
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13:18 Krock Jordach, Zeno asked me to test it with MSVC and it worked. you can find the exe in the shared dropbox folder if you want :)
13:19 Jordach Krock, heard of the Infinite Jukebox
13:19 Krock oke
13:19 Krock googling it
13:19 Krock uuh.
13:20 Jordach Krock, http://labs.echonest.com/Uploader/index.html
13:20 Krock yeah. checking out M.C's Billie Jean
13:21 Krock Jordach, mhm after it's done loading it returns to the start page and plays. silence.
13:21 Jordach reload the page
13:21 Jordach does that often if FF 34
13:21 Krock Chrome here.
13:22 Jordach reloading seems to fix it
13:22 Krock hmm doesn't work
13:22 Krock checking it with FF
13:23 redstonecraftPL relog
13:23 Jordach Krock, https://cdn.mediacru.sh/K/KGpmG2jvrW-v.png
13:24 Krock looks a bit CPU intensive but interestin
13:25 Jordach Rainmeter is using more CPU than Firefox
13:25 Jordach u wot m8
13:25 Krock whoa. amazing
13:25 Jordach >Windows Exploder has stopped working
13:25 Krock not even CPU intensive
13:26 Krock and those connections in the circle mean loops?
13:26 Jordach yes, it's a jump point
13:26 Krock :D
13:27 ziggy909 anyone ever thought about making an rpg mod?
13:28 mitrom Jordach, Y U USE WINDOWS?
13:28 Jordach mitrom, AMD APU here
13:28 Jordach no drivers
13:28 mitrom what
13:28 mitrom oh
13:28 Jordach not even non-free blobs to run it
13:28 Jordach SoL in my case
13:28 mitrom Nothing's impossible sir
13:29 mitrom Just really, really difficult
13:29 mitrom Easier to get a new PC I guess
13:29 Jordach too expensive in teh UK
13:29 Jordach a decent quad core is usually >£400
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13:30 mitrom Laptop+Monitor+keyboard+mouse is a good bet
13:31 Jordach mitrom, i do resource heavy rendering
13:31 mitrom Oh that's always hot
13:31 mitrom Got fast internet?
13:32 Jordach 8mbps (BT gib fibre next year :D)
13:32 mitrom damn sir
13:32 mitrom Oh wait what
13:32 Jordach considering i live out on a farmland area, pretty good for ADSL
13:32 mitrom g-g-g-gigabit
13:32 mitrom So
13:32 mitrom An amazon GPU-optimized should do it
13:33 Jordach mitrom, Blender Internals is CPU bound
13:33 mitrom well then
13:33 Jordach i nearly cooked a Pentium 4
13:33 mitrom lol
13:33 mitrom Wait if you buy another pc you'll still have your current one
13:34 mitrom Just run linux on an old laptop
13:34 mitrom always works
13:34 Jordach pff
13:34 Krock You don't cook a P4, the P4 cooks you.
13:34 Jordach i'm working in a Creative IT BTEC at the minute
13:34 Jordach no luck with FOSS stuff
13:34 Jordach except when it comes to graphics
13:34 Jordach i got away with Blender, Krita and GIMP
13:35 Krock mhm that infinite jukebox can't handle older songs well. I can hear when it jumps, the music parts aren't 1:1 the same :3
13:35 Jordach Krock, Ska from the 80s (Madness) works fine
13:36 Krock Jordach, maybe they copy&pasted some parts of the song to an other position of it :P
13:36 Krock ..or they just sing very evenly
13:37 Jordach Krock, there is actually a threshold for those jumps and can be fine tuned
13:37 Krock oke
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13:37 Jordach hit that tune button :)
13:38 Krock aah. i c
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13:46 Jordach >2 hours to sunset
13:51 Krock Oh mah gawd. http://subefotos.com/ver/?e012ff​b418bccfdcb78eec499f17122fo.jpg
13:51 * Jordach works on a replacement for bones
13:52 Krock I didn't know that's even possible.
13:53 Jordach instead of a crappy looking set of bones, you get a cool as headstone. with a randomised death string
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14:12 Jordach http://paste.debian.net/137981/ i like these taunting style death messages on the headstone
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14:19 Jordach just need to plug in signs_lib
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14:44 Jordach https://cdn.mediacru.sh/j/j8fBZhky3vZ2.png
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15:37 kaeza meow
15:39 * Jordach meows at kaeza
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15:59 john_minetest hey
16:00 shadowzone Hi
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16:36 ElectronLibre Sorry to bother you, but I have a question. When it's said "Release on the 24th", where does it have to be the 24th so the 0.4.11 will be released exactly?
16:40 Jordach !title https://github.com/Jordach/big_freaking_dig/co​mmit/ef2e7bd4fb799ec6dba94c05b6cf7c96cbb72fe0
16:40 MinetestBot Jordach: BFD 0.5-rc1 contains kittens, headstones, shiny textures and other stuff ·  ef2e7bd · Jordach/big_freaking_dig · GitHub
16:46 john_minetest kittens? :3
16:47 ElectronLibre I suppose it's the kittens he has shown us in his videos.
16:51 marktraceur ElectronLibre: Free software release schedules are more art than science
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16:58 john_minetest Jordach: The map generation is weird. A lot of patches without earth
16:58 Jordach john_minetest, only use v5 or v7
16:59 john_minetest ah
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17:18 john_minetest http://imgur.com/gallery/LmHaL03
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17:22 necron99 Good afternoon, everyone.
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17:24 necron99 I am having issues running this on debian sid.
17:25 necron99 When launching from the terminal, it says "Irrlicht log: Irrlicht Engine version 1.8.1
17:25 necron99 Irrlicht log: Linux 3.16.0-4-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 3.16.7-ckt2-1 (2014-12-08) x86_64
17:25 necron99 Irrlicht log: Using renderer: OpenGL 2.1
17:25 necron99 Irrlicht log: Mesa DRI Intel(R) IGD : Intel Open Source Technology Center
17:25 necron99 Irrlicht log: OpenGL driver version is 1.2 or better.
17:25 necron99 was kicked by ShadowBot: Paste flood detected. Use a pastebin like pastebin.ubuntu.com or gist.github.com.
17:27 necron99 joined #minetest
17:27 necron99 Sorry.
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17:29 necron99 I am having issues trying to run minetest in debian sid. http://pastebin.com/8FHm4xCA
17:30 necron99 I tried to fix it by installing pulseaudio(which I don't normally use) but it still gave a segmentation fault.
17:30 necron99 Thanks for any help or insight in advance.
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17:37 CraigyDavi necron99, can you check what you have in /etc/openal/alsoft.conf under the "drivers =" option?
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17:44 necron99 CraigyDavi, here http://pastebin.com/vbsH3Z7L
17:46 CraigyDavi Try uncommenting it and remove alsa from the list
17:47 necron99 Do I need to use pulse at all? I try to avoid it because I have issues when producing music.
17:48 necron99 Also, I thought "#" was uncommented. Forgive my lack of knowledge.
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17:50 CraigyDavi You might not need to use it, I'm not entirely sure
17:51 CraigyDavi If removing alsa from the list doesn't work you might be missing liboss
17:51 necron99 So erase the "#" and take out pulse instead? Or do as you initially suggested?
17:52 CraigyDavi Try what I initially suggested and then try removing pulse instead
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18:03 necron99 Okay, first suggestion gave the same error. Removing pulse altogether gives this http://pastebin.com/mHJrrfzT
18:03 necron99 I mean removing pulse instead of alsa
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18:27 cardust good afternoon
18:28 cardust christzone sounds too holy
18:29 ChristZone That's the point
18:29 cardust where are the releases?
18:30 shadowzone I don't know
18:30 ElectronLibre It's top secret apparently.
18:30 cardust did they lie to us?
18:31 ElectronLibre In fact nobody knows exactly..
18:31 cardust though it is still 24
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18:42 cardust 🎄🎅❤
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18:48 ElectronLibre (To everyone how wants to know when will be the release : Recently, I've discovered something while compiling my own Minetest, in the CMakeList.txt file : it's needed to change some parameters about the version in this file before the release, just track the commits/push on minetest/minetest about this file. (if I'm not wrong))
18:48 Johnsen|Laptop joined #minetest
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19:00 luizrpgluiz hi
19:01 cardust hello
19:02 ElectronLibre Hello luiz.
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19:41 mitrom hey there
19:41 whitehat-hacker hey mitrom
19:41 whitehat-hacker wait what is minetest
19:42 whitehat-hacker i never heard this program before
19:42 whitehat-hacker is this a hacker group
19:43 whitehat-hacker nah
19:43 whitehat-hacker this sux
19:43 whitehat-hacker just use blender
19:43 whitehat-hacker blender engine
19:43 whitehat-hacker can code 3d game
19:43 whitehat-hacker if you want to know
19:43 whitehat-hacker We can train you but is ncsoft that train you
19:44 whitehat-hacker ncsoft is 0x71 (xc) Our
19:44 whitehat-hacker if you don't know what is blender
19:44 whitehat-hacker go to blender.org
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19:48 hmmmm oh my god i thought this guy only existed on efnet
19:48 hmmmm ban, ban, ban, ban
19:49 mitrom lol
19:49 mitrom yup yup yup yup
19:49 hmmmm it sounds like he's trolling but he's actually this incoherent jesus-obsessed psychopath
19:49 VanessaE that was...odd.
19:49 mitrom yeah he's a schizophrenic
19:50 hmmmm the number of people actually insane vs. the number of people acting like it for the purpose of trolling is small, but they do exist.  this guy is actually one of them
19:50 mitrom He's on efnet too?
19:50 hmmmm yeah
19:50 hmmmm did you look at his website
19:50 mitrom Nope
19:50 mitrom I looked at his personal details though
19:50 hmmmm he also writes these jesus songs and sings them
19:50 mitrom lol
19:50 mitrom What channels on efnet?
19:51 hmmmm he goes to all of them
19:51 hmmmm anything programming related, anything technical
19:51 hmmmm #math, #c, #asm, #winprog, so on
19:51 VanessaE wait, people still use efnet? :P
19:51 hmmmm yeah
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19:54 mitrom Wait, under what nick?
19:56 hmmmm skraito
19:56 mitrom 14:56 -!- There is no such nick skraito
19:56 mitrom Oh well
19:57 hmmmm well obviously not right now, he's been glined
19:57 mitrom lol
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20:07 john_minetest ~h4x0r ...
20:08 mitrom ~schizophrenic
20:15 john_minetest I want a chatlog backlog time limit.
20:15 mitrom I want world peace
20:16 mitrom actually no i dont
20:16 mitrom i want a coffee
20:16 john_minetest I think that it is useless and harmfull to have eternal backlogs for #minetest
20:16 john_minetest 1 or 2 days can be nice but after that the logs are outdated and should not be aviable any more,
20:18 VanessaE no, we need a LOT more than 2 days worth
20:18 VanessaE bug reports frequently link back to old logs sometimes weeks old
20:18 VanessaE and as those reports age, the links age with them
20:19 VanessaE those log entries shouldn't expire
20:19 VanessaE if you're worried about saying something incriminating....well... just don't say it.
20:19 john_minetest Those reports usually don't have excessive lengths so they can put them up on github easily.
20:20 VanessaE not that easily
20:20 VanessaE forget it.  the logs need to stay
20:20 sfan5 ^
20:20 john_minetest Logs need to stay. But eternal logs shouldn't.
20:21 VanessaE they should.
20:21 john_minetest I am not worried by what I have written. I don't think that the things I wrote are so dumb. But we had some people in the past, who wrote stupid stuff here, trolled and had fights. A lot of people aren't aware that this channel is logged.
20:21 VanessaE well that's what robots.txt is for.
20:22 VanessaE no one's gonna go digging through the logs looking for stupid shit you've written anyway.
20:22 VanessaE "This is why we can't have nice things."
20:22 VanessaE no, the logs need to stay, in all their eternal searchability.
20:22 john_minetest robots.txt?
20:22 VanessaE break that and you break a lot of the ability we have to find out when shit happened.
20:22 john_minetest I can easily find the irc logs by looking for "john_minetest"
20:23 VanessaE robots.txt is a file you can include with a website that dictates what a search engine is allowed to do when it crawls your site
20:23 john_minetest I bet that I could find anything.
20:23 john_minetest Well, if there is robots.txt, it allows search engines accessing stuff.
20:23 VanessaE that file probably doesn't exist, and shouldn't.
20:23 VanessaE this channel is logged.
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20:23 VanessaE and those logs are public.
20:24 VanessaE end of story
20:25 sfan5 relevant: http://archiveteam.org/index.php?title=Robots.txt
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20:52 JS|NotAfk ~Coin
20:52 ShadowBot JS|NotAfk: heads
20:52 JS|NotAfk heads! yay
20:52 JS|NotAfk Bye for now
20:52 JS|NotAfk ~Rainbow BYE
20:52 ShadowBot JS|NotAfk: BYE
20:53 JS|NotAfk Good bye to you too shadowbot ;')
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20:57 marktraceur Why does ShadowBot message the channel instead of talking normally
20:58 sfan5 because the IRC RFC says so
20:58 sfan5 and ShadowNinja wants his bot to adhere to the rfc strictly
20:58 sfan5 even if it's stupid
21:00 marktraceur That's...very stupid
21:00 marktraceur sfan5: The IRC RFC says bots should do that, or everyone should?
21:00 SylvieLorxu marktraceur: But standards!
21:00 sfan5 marktraceur: just bots
21:00 marktraceur SylvieLorxu: Life is what happens when you're busy writing standards
21:01 SylvieLorxu Bots should use notices in messages, and bots should never respond to notices
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21:01 marktraceur Huh.
21:01 SylvieLorxu It's a way to prevent infinite loops with multiple bots
21:01 marktraceur Fascinating.
21:01 sfan5 lol
21:01 marktraceur But it imbues meaning onto notices that wouldn't otherwise be there, and isn't self-evident
21:01 marktraceur I don't think about robots when I think about notices.
21:01 marktraceur I think about admins and announcements and stuff.
21:02 SylvieLorxu Well, you've noticed the meaning of notices incorrectly
21:02 SylvieLorxu On an unrelated note: WarxborecbexbeasnxasWORDPRES​SWHYxrpxuaclguxbelgdxelugig *pukes*
21:02 SylvieLorxu Okay, just needed to let that out
21:02 marktraceur :)
21:02 SylvieLorxu I swear WordPress makes me go insane sometimes
21:03 SylvieLorxu The only times I don't really have issues with WordPress is when I don't have to work with it
21:04 Johns|en joined #minetest
21:04 Johns|en UH
21:04 john_minetest test
21:04 john_minetest lol
21:05 DMackey joined #minetest
21:05 marktraceur Johns|en: UH indeed.
21:07 john_minetest left #minetest
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21:23 Johns|en UH indeed???
21:23 Johns|en Lol brb
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21:50 MinetestBot [git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetestmapper: Travis integration f66d2a7 http://git.io/_zURgg (2014-12-24T22:47:34+01:00)
21:50 sfan5 ^ yay
21:51 mitrom wait what
22:01 sfan5 !seen BlockMen
22:01 MinetestBot sfan5: blockmen was last seen at 2014-11-09 16:16:22 UTC on #minetest
22:04 Johns|en Hi sfan
22:04 Johns|en brb
22:05 MinetestBot [git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetestmapper: Add travis build status to README 80ad231 http://git.io/dMWdtg (2014-12-24T23:05:25+01:00)
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23:32 test Is nate123 server up?
23:32 Johnsen2 i think o
23:32 Johnsen2 so
23:32 Johnsen2 brb
23:34 ElectronLibre joined #minetest
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23:38 test Can someone connect to Nate123's server, it doesn't work for me. Thanks
23:40 Johnsen2 joined #minetest
23:40 Jordach 20 mins :3
23:45 proller joined #minetest
23:47 kaeza !server nate123
23:47 MinetestBot kaeza: No results
23:48 proller joined #minetest
23:49 test I think it's down. :/

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