Time Nick Message 00:35 Lugal hi 00:35 Lugal i cant open the model files with blender anymore# 00:35 Lugal any suggestions? 00:36 Lugal is there any tool being able to edit all modes in all open source games? 01:56 LazyJ Of the three default mapgens (v5, v6, v7) in Minetest, which one will be supported and maintained the longest? 01:56 LazyJ And how long will that be? 02:54 Tesseract LazyJ: v5 and v7 are experimental at this point. v6 will be maintained until there's a better alternative. It will probably be kept for a year or more after that though. 02:54 Tesseract So, v6 is "LTS". 02:56 LazyJ Ah. Thanks. ;) 02:57 Lugal How do I edit the .x model files? 02:57 LazyJ Not sure. 02:58 LazyJ I think Jordach and VanessaE have been using Blender for their mods' modeled stuff. 02:58 Tesseract Lugal: Try to get the native file, probably a .blender. 02:59 VanessaE LazyJ: yep 02:59 Lugal its not blender, its .x 03:00 VanessaE blender is a 3d modeling program used to produce those .x files 03:00 VanessaE however I don't know if it can re-import them 03:00 Lugal but I cant open them with blender 03:00 Lugal so blender can only save .x but not open it? 03:07 LazyJ paramat, looks like one of the engine updates since 2014_12_10 broke "Watershed". 03:08 paramat hopefully mgv5 and mgv6 will be supported indefinitely, mgv7 is the most likely to be trashed although i'm fighting to keep it in 03:08 paramat okay i'll try it 03:09 LazyJ minetest.get_perlin seems to be at the base of the problem. 03:09 paramat hmmmmm is considering starting mgv8 03:09 LazyJ watershed/init.lua:259: attempt to index local 'nvals_terrain' (a nil value) 03:09 paramat yeah lots of changes, see my latest forum post 03:09 paramat we're in feature freeze now so stuff needs to be tested for 0.4.11 release 03:10 LazyJ Earlier I had asked what default, Minetest mapgen (v5, v6, v7) would be kept and maintained for the long term and how long is "long term". 03:10 paramat yep saw that 03:10 LazyJ The response was mapgen v6 for a year after it's replacement has been found. 03:11 paramat yeah that's not correct 03:11 paramat luckily 03:11 LazyJ So which one is long term enough to use on a server? 03:12 paramat v5/v6 03:12 paramat only really bad mapgens will be trashed 03:12 paramat personally i would like to build up a variety 03:13 paramat i see more potential in mgv5 than mgv6 so i would suggest mgv5 03:13 paramat but it's down to your tastes 03:14 LazyJ A variety would add more interest in Minetest but stability, reliability, and longevity are the points that severs depend on. 03:14 LazyJ Well, servers that are going to be around for more than a couple months. ;) 03:14 paramat mgv5 won't be stable for a while i'm working on improving the biome API 03:15 paramat and creating the default biomes 03:15 paramat for immediate use mgv6 is still the one 03:16 LazyJ What is the future of Watershed? 03:16 paramat i'll be adding optional snow biomes to that and fixing the discontinuities at y = 47 so you can have mush higher terrain 03:16 paramat ^ mgv6 03:16 paramat watershed: new underground system of tunnels, caves, fissures, otherwise staying the same 03:17 paramat my new ideas are going into riverdev (which is watershed 2) 03:17 LazyJ My concern is if you stop maintaining Watershed, future engine updates may break it again. 03:18 paramat watershed is popular, even with c55, so i will maintain it 03:18 paramat but not develop it much, underground changes are not so noticeable 03:19 LazyJ Good to hear. 03:21 LazyJ Looks like "scale" was removed from the engines perlin stuff (sorry, I'm not a programmer). 03:22 paramat nvals_terrain being nil means getperlinmap has failed 03:23 paramat hmmmm one for you ^ 03:23 LazyJ Box cliffs scared my long-term, Watershed yesterday. 03:25 paramat :( a terrain discontinuity 03:25 LazyJ I assume they are at the edge where the active_block_range stopped, and the updated engine code did something else when I got close enough to activate another block. 03:25 paramat well a new mapchunk was generated and was discontinous 03:25 paramat it seems 03:26 paramat if the edges of the discontinuities are 80 nodes long -> mapchunks 03:26 LazyJ About 400 nodes long (north-south) 03:27 LazyJ These are common in the older servers I've toured. 03:27 LazyJ Box cliffs and box canyons. 03:28 LazyJ So far I haven't seen a mod that will reshape and blend them into the terrain. 03:29 paramat oh actually watershed can regen chunks 03:29 paramat luckily for you 03:29 LazyJ How do I do that? 03:29 paramat only do it after we fix this 03:29 LazyJ Hehehe... well, how do I do that when Watershed doesn't crash Minetest anymore. ;)- 03:30 paramat see int/lua line 630 03:30 LazyJ "Don't start the engine." "No problem. It's outta gas." 03:30 paramat init.lua 03:31 paramat just type /regen as a chat command 03:31 paramat while in the mapchunk you want regenerated 03:31 LazyJ How do I tell it were to start and stop? 03:31 LazyJ Ah. 03:32 paramat it will regen the 80^3 mapchunk around the player 03:32 LazyJ That's good to know. Thanks! 03:32 LazyJ But back to putting the bug in your ear.... ;)- 03:32 paramat i'm happy i added that now 03:33 LazyJ Me too, me too. 03:33 paramat so i need to run it with 'debug log level = 4' in .conf 03:34 LazyJ There are three other lines in that error. 03:34 paramat hmmmmm is very busy so this may take a few days to fix 03:35 LazyJ I spent all summer setting up the mods for this world, a year of planning before that. I can wait a couple days. 03:40 paramat works for me with very latest minetest dev 03:40 LazyJ How latest? 03:41 LazyJ Ah...\ 03:41 LazyJ My last compile was after Zeno' fixed a typo (9f65fd6). 03:44 paramat i compiled 2 hours ago, try with latest, you can always regen the terrain if it still fails 03:44 LazyJ Downloading now... 03:45 hmmmm hi LazyJ, what do you mean by this ' 03:45 hmmmm [10:21 PM] Looks like "scale" was removed from the engines perlin stuff (sorry, I'm not a programmer). 03:47 paramat funny i can't see a commit since 9f6 that would fix noise 03:47 LazyJ I looked at the line Watershed's error pointed too, and then looked at resent GitHub commits to find get_perlin, that lead to a section that a had all the things paramat used (seed, octaves, etc) but "scale" had been removed. 03:47 LazyJ Looking back through to find the commit part I saw... 03:47 * Zeno` hands paramat a pair of noise cancelling headphones 03:48 hmmmm LazyJ, what's watershed's error? 03:49 LazyJ watershed/init.lua:259: attempt to index local 'nvals_terrain' (a nil value) 03:49 hmmmm does this error happen all the time? 03:50 Zeno` errr 03:50 Zeno` 13:49:54: ERROR[main]: ERROR: An unhandled exception occurred: ...netest/worlds/ram-test/worldmods/caverealms/init.lua:189: attempt to index local 'nvals_cave' (a nil value) 03:50 Zeno` ^^^^ just noticed this then 03:51 Zeno` restart server, happened again 03:51 Zeno` so I guess every time (for me). This is caverealms not watershed obviously. 03:51 paramat weird 03:52 LazyJ I just downloaded the latest commit of Minetest, will have to compile before I can try Watershed again. 03:52 hmmmm i changed it yesterday so that you can't use getMap3d on LuaPerlinNoiseMap objects created for 2d 03:52 hmmmm are you doing bad things like that? 03:52 Zeno` https://github.com/Zeno-/minetest-caverealms/blob/mtz/init.lua#L189 03:52 paramat hmmmmm see discussion earlier in this channel (the last hour or so) for more info 03:52 LazyJ Where I was looking at earlier: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/2b8180a417465845759096670f498bf71cd39403?diff=split 03:52 paramat LJ how did you get box cliffs if the mod crashed? 03:53 LazyJ src/script/lua_api/l_env.cpp, starting at line 593. But I'm guessing. This stuff is above my head for now. 03:54 LazyJ The box cliffs formed yesterday. 03:54 LazyJ I downloaded and compiled the new commit of Minetest earlier this morning. 03:55 paramat so crash first, then it worked again but with discontinuities. ah.. a crash causes empty mapchunks to appear 03:55 LazyJ That's the one where the error came from. 03:55 LazyJ No. Worked, cliffs, new download and compile of Minetest, run stuff again to check things out, Watershed world barfed. 03:56 paramat even weirder 03:56 paramat uh .. watershed just spawned me in watery a hole in the ground lol 03:56 LazyJ There is about a 24hr gap between the Minetest versions. 03:56 paramat (that's normal) 03:57 paramat so it seems getperlinmap is failing 03:57 paramat .. looking at your error message 03:58 LazyJ Early AM 2014_12_11 was when I last compiled Minetest and box cliffs appeared in Watershed (but Watershed ran). 03:59 LazyJ Then this morining (2014_12_12) I downloaded and compiled what was, at that time, the latest and greatest. 03:59 hmmmm hi lazyj, could you try compiling the latest commit and try again 03:59 LazyJ That's the version that didn't like Watershed. 03:59 LazyJ Hehehe... Yup. Been sidetracked this past hour. :P 04:03 paramat ah i see i have an undeclared global in a function. watershed works for me on 3rd try, again weird 04:05 LazyJ Still compiling... 04:05 LazyJ exit 04:06 LazyJ Woops. 04:11 LazyJ Ok, the test Watershed world is working. \0/ 04:11 LazyJ Now for the existing world. 04:11 paramat when the box cliffs appeared were you using MTdev or 0.4.10 stable? 04:11 paramat good 04:11 LazyJ MTdev 04:12 LazyJ I don't use the stable versions if I don't have too. 04:12 LazyJ Risky, I know. 04:12 LazyJ But it's how I monitor things before deciding to upgrade our server. 04:13 LazyJ Success! 04:17 LazyJ paramat, the /regen isn't regenerating the terrain around me at the base of the cliff. 04:19 LazyJ Getting screenshots lined-up. 04:20 paramat enable freemove and fly around above and below ground using regen multiple times, like every 80 nodes or so 04:21 paramat hmmmmm you are king awesome! 04:21 LazyJ [watershed] regenerate mapchunk 04:21 LazyJ [watershed] 2421 ms 04:32 LazyJ Here are two screenshots of box cliffs: 04:32 LazyJ http://imgur.com/96Q6Aru 04:32 LazyJ http://imgur.com/ckbhY9b 04:33 LazyJ So far, no-clipped flying around in the affected areas and using /regen... nothing happens. 04:33 * paramat looks 04:33 LazyJ Over, under, in the cliff, outside of the cliff... no joys. 04:34 paramat okay screenshots look like noise params somehow changed across a chunk border 04:35 paramat which is why regen didn't fix it 04:35 hmmmm hi LazyJ, I did a lot of work on noise lately, could you bisect the commits starting from about 3 days ago until now? 04:35 paramat regen is regenning the discontinuity 04:36 paramat you can test the regen by placing a node and seeing if it dissappears on regen 04:37 LazyJ hmmmm, I don't know how or what you mean by bisect the commits. I'm the amateur in this. 04:37 hmmmm i'm assuming this is paramat's mod? 04:38 paramat bisect = track down the commit that caused this 04:38 paramat yeah 04:38 LazyJ Sorry. I wish I had the code skills to be of better help. 04:38 hmmmm and you use get3dMap_flat()? 04:38 paramat hmmmmm yes 04:39 hmmmm how do you create that base terrain 04:39 paramat https://github.com/paramat/watershed/blob/master/init.lua 04:40 paramat erm it's super-complex 04:40 paramat mixture of 2D and 3D noises 04:40 hmmmm yeah you use get3dMap_flat for the parts that matter most, what i'm seeing 04:40 hmmmm regardless i didn't change anything there aside from either 2d or 3d versions of that function aside from the safety check which has no bearing on the noise *output* 04:41 paramat yep 04:41 paramat the 2D noise raises or lowers the entire terrain 04:41 paramat 3D noise for the mountains 04:42 paramat i will try my existing world's to see if i get discontinuities too 04:42 paramat *worlds 04:42 hmmmm yup, no clue... 04:43 paramat thanks anyway, half a fix 04:43 hmmmm i specifically removed the offset and scale application when i added that step directly to the noise functions 04:44 paramat i always use offset = 0, scale = 1 in my noiseparams 04:44 paramat .. from habit 04:44 LazyJ This Watershed world of mine was started last fall, so it's a couple months old and however many Minetest (MTdev) updates in between. 04:45 LazyJ In that time I've stayed in the same area, mostly. 04:45 hmmmm yeah i have no idea unfortunately 04:46 LazyJ So, paramat, if you go looking for discontinuities, pick an old world and travel to the edge of places you haven't frequented. 04:46 paramat LJ yes exactly 04:49 paramat LJ you could return to an older version of MT to avoid anymore bug-cliffs 04:50 LazyJ Yup, that's my contingency plan. 04:51 paramat bisect = find a version that works, find a version that doesnt, try the version halfway between, repeat 04:51 LazyJ However, if this turns out to not be a fixable issue, then better to change my plans now than invest many more months. 04:53 LazyJ Unfortunately, I don't have a backup copy of this world that is old enough anymore. 04:54 LazyJ A short-coming of my backup practices that will be corrected. 04:56 LazyJ The loose plan, atm, is to sideline this world, try to extract the decent builds with WorldEdit (which was slightly broken in recent engine updates), and start a new world... after these bugs have been found and worked-out. 05:05 paramat it sucks, but few log-term worlds escape glitches, it happens sometimes 05:07 LazyJ Aye. 05:07 LazyJ Wazuland2 has had it's share of gaffs and glitches along the way. 05:08 LazyJ That's a project far too large to just start over. 05:08 paramat good name 05:09 LazyJ Hehehe... a legacy name from when it used to be under the "Wazu Clan's" umbrella. 05:09 LazyJ Not all the big changes have been in the game itself. 05:12 LazyJ Well, when I began planning this Watershed world, I had two basic directions to choose from. 05:13 LazyJ Either stick with nothing but default vanilla like Solarz and "Karsthefan". Which would have avoided this current issue. 05:13 LazyJ Or go with custom, yet established, mods. Riskier for the long-term but with much tools and nodes to create with. 05:14 LazyJ I figured I could adapt or revive any "unknown nodes" so I opted for the more feature rich option. 05:15 paramat default vanilla may not have escaped this bug 05:15 LazyJ I've dealt with box cliffs and canyons before in Wazuland2. They are a feature now. 05:17 LazyJ I was going to leave it be until earlier this evening when the Watershed world crashed Minetest. 05:18 LazyJ I can build over, around and incorporate box cliffs and canyons... so long as the world loads. ;)- 05:19 LazyJ Which brought me to the "Don't start the engine. No problem - no gas." that was just solved. ;) 05:20 LazyJ Ok, done typing. I've got a mess of temporary Mintest's, worlds and other files to sort. 05:24 paramat any idea which version of MT was the last that worked perfect for you? (ie no cliffs) or guess roughly 05:24 paramat oh sorry didn't see your last line 05:25 paramat O/ 05:25 LazyJ No worries. I'm still at my computer. I just can't multi-task well enough to handle chat and the mess I've made on my screens. ;) 05:26 LazyJ Unfortunately I don't have the exact Git commit to go by, just the date that I download (I keep several Minetest versions in dated folders). 05:27 LazyJ 2014_12_10 is the version I used when the cliffs appeared. I've stayed in the same area most of the time so the cliffs glitch may have been there a long time before them. 05:29 LazyJ It wasn't until I went to a new... island?, continent? just off the shore of were I had been building that Minetest started generating a new portion and the cliffs appeared. 05:30 paramat thanks i'll do everything i can to fix this 05:30 LazyJ Thanks to you and hmmmm, too. ;) 05:32 LazyJ Ah. It just occurred to me... in all this conversation there may have been some confusion. The Watershed world I'm have trouble with is my personal, singleplayer world, not the server "Wazuland2". That's mapgen v6. 05:32 LazyJ So I'm not dealing with any screaming players... at least not on that subject. 05:44 hmmmm why thanks to me? 05:44 hmmmm in all likelyhood i'm the one who broke it for everybody 05:45 hmmmm still I cannot comprehend how people could possibly trust their maps with bleeding-edge development versions 05:47 LazyJ If we didn't then problems like these would not be found. 05:48 hmmmm yes, but you could periodically back up your maps before using them on development versions... 05:48 LazyJ That I *will* do with more depth. 05:48 paramat weird thing is, if you /regened around the cliffs the new buggy terrain should expand into the old terrain. if nothing changed that is very weird 05:49 LazyJ I messed up and copied over the backup I had of a couple days ago. 05:49 LazyJ So now my oldest copy is just over a day old. 05:50 LazyJ Starting with this next round of backups, I'll be keeping several, progressively older copies of this world. 05:51 LazyJ As opposed to whatever was the last backup made. 05:51 hmmmm you could just make a copy of it right now, and keep it for when it gets fixed so you could regen the area for real 05:52 LazyJ Yup. Doing that. 05:57 LazyJ Oddly, the oldest (almost 2yrs now), "long-term" world I have is where I try out mods and build ideas. Junk is scattered everywhere in that world. I did whatever, where ever, whenever, because I was going to wipe the world and start over next week. 05:58 LazyJ Then it was the week after that, and another week,... now almost two years have gone by. 05:59 LazyJ Heh. My sturdiest, long-term world is the one I abused and was going to throw away every other time. 06:01 paramat LJ are you sure /regen made no change to terrain? it should now expand buggy terrain into older terrain 06:01 LazyJ Maybe because it's such a mess, all the glitches over time have been lost in rest of the chaos. 06:01 hmmmm paramat, were you not able to replicate the problem lazyj was having? 06:01 paramat i'm planning to, have to learn how to update back and forth through MT history to bisect 06:02 hmmmm well there is git bisect 06:02 hmmmm man git-bisect 06:02 LazyJ Those screenshots I posted are of areas that I flew into, above, under... each time using regen and waiting for the output in the terminal. 06:02 hmmmm but you could also use git reset --hard 06:03 paramat okay time for me to learn this stuff 06:05 LazyJ Another wrinkle in the puzzle: Three Watershed worlds, using the same seed and same mods, produced cliffs in different areas. 06:05 LazyJ Of the same world, I have three working copies. 06:06 LazyJ One is for tinkering with mods for that particular world. 06:06 LazyJ The second is purely for flying around to generate the terrain and produce overview maps of for planning. 06:06 LazyJ Then the third working copy is the main world. 06:06 paramat all 3 same version of watershed? 06:06 LazyJ Yup. 06:07 LazyJ Each time I update Minetest, I run these worlds and a few others to keep them updated with Minetest's changes. 06:08 LazyJ Possibly related is another, regular occurring anomaly in mapgen v6. 06:08 LazyJ One of my instances of Minetest is dedicated to testing and developing mods, each in their own dedicated world. 06:09 LazyJ I use the same map seed for all of them (1234567890). 06:09 paramat don't forget the watershed 3D map at 1/16th scale https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=8609&hilit=watershed&start=125#p150142 06:09 paramat and https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=8609&hilit=watershed&start=125#p152224 06:10 LazyJ I use the same static spawn point for each of these worlds so every time a new test world is started, I see the same terrain. 06:10 LazyJ There is an area not far from the spawn point that either is solid stone covered with grass or it's hollowed out. 06:11 LazyJ This varies from each new world to another of the same mapseed, same location. 06:11 LazyJ That's mapgen v6. 06:12 LazyJ I've just assumed that some random number was being used in the calculations that resulted in there being either a solid hill or not in the same spot. 06:12 paramat well caves are random 06:12 paramat and they carve shapes into terrain, in mgv6 06:12 hmmmm they're based on blockseed 06:12 LazyJ Once I get my Minetests settled in, I'll post two screenshots of the spot with the HUD coords in the display. 06:13 hmmmm ok 06:13 paramat caves are pseudorandom? 06:13 hmmmm they are 06:13 hmmmm everything is pseudorandom except for trees because they got moved out to lua and somebody botched them before that anyway 06:13 LazyJ 73 worlds using the same map seed, all mapgen v6. 06:14 hmmmm i think they like used myrand() instead of PseudoRandom::next() 06:14 hmmmm and then of course lsystem trees got botched as well 06:14 hmmmm it's very important to use PseudoRandom() 06:15 paramat i never expect trees to be identical in 2 worlds with same seed though 06:15 hmmmm if you decide you can't use PseudoRandom() because you don't have a seed to work with in your code's scope, then maybe you should reassess the situation and figure out a way to get a blockseed first 06:15 LazyJ afk for a bit. 06:16 paramat O/ 06:26 Zeno` LazyJ, (when you get back), how many threads are you using for cavegen? 06:27 LazyJ exit 06:27 LazyJ Did it again. Oy... 06:28 LazyJ Zeno`, what would I look for to find out? num_emerge_threads? 06:29 Zeno` yeah 06:29 LazyJ Whatever is default. 06:29 Zeno` ok :) 06:29 LazyJ Sorry, I don't have the technical expertise to provide better info. :( 06:30 Zeno` Nah, that's cool. I was just wondering about the random number generation 06:58 LazyJ Ok, got things settled and sorted. 07:01 LazyJ Next will be links to two screenshots of the same map seed (123456789), in the same location (coords: 52,6,128, yaw 30), from the same spawnpoint (0,0,0 - land in water), from Minetest Git commit 035e6bfc18 (posted about 3hrs ago) and minetest_game commit 99cfe73bbf (posted yesterday). 07:01 LazyJ "cave.png" shows a small cave. 07:01 LazyJ "no_cave.png" shows the same location without a cave. 07:02 LazyJ These are from two separate worlds, of the same setup specs, just created moments ago. 07:02 LazyJ https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/30991334/cave.png 07:02 LazyJ https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/30991334/no_cave.png 07:03 LazyJ Check the upper-left HUD to confirm coords and version. 07:03 LazyJ The images are about 1.5mb each. Only way to capture the HUD info clear enough to read. 07:09 hmmmm hey LazyJ, in the world that has the cave there, look at the opposite wall 07:09 hmmmm can you take a screenshot of that? 07:10 LazyJ Opposite wall... where exactly? In the cave? Which direction? 07:11 hmmmm the wall opposite to the one that is visible in the screenshot 07:13 paramat thats at x = 52, you can see a change in terrain along y = 47 (mapchunk edge) 07:13 paramat x = 47 07:13 paramat large cave griefing at mapchunk edge? 07:14 paramat .. caused by order of mapchunk generation? 07:14 LazyJ So... in the cave, facing East? 07:15 LazyJ Clouds drift North to South. "East" would be positive x. 07:15 paramat yes 07:15 paramat yaw = 270 07:16 Zeno` man, no wonder I always get lost in the game. I thought the clouds drifted randomly and tried to follow the moss on trees 07:16 Zeno` I even have a star map that doesn't work 07:16 paramat i expect a flat wall running along x = 47 07:19 LazyJ coords: 41,3,139 yaw 303, inside cave, facing NE: 07:19 LazyJ https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/30991334/cave_opposite_wall.png 07:19 hmmmm very odd.. 07:20 LazyJ No landscaping mods installed; just default mapgen stuff. 07:20 hmmmm i have no explanation for that. cave generation is 100% procedural 07:23 paramat mudflow might be hiding a flat wall? 07:23 LazyJ Aha. 07:24 LazyJ mgv6_spflags = biomeblend, jungles, mudflow 07:24 hmmmm that's normal.. 07:24 hmmmm for what it's worth, my own version of the map at that position at that angle has no cave 07:25 LazyJ So I'm not *completely* senile yet. (phew) 07:25 gregorycu The caves are a little... open... aren't they? 07:26 hmmmm consistently too, might i add 07:28 hmmmm you know i think paramat is right 07:28 hmmmm look at how odd that piece of water is shaped 07:28 hmmmm i think it's mudflow hiding the walled-in cave 07:28 paramat that water pool in the cave has flowing water 07:29 paramat its lower in the middle 07:30 hmmmm water_source has the waving shader applied to it as well 07:30 paramat ah water shders are on? 07:31 paramat yeah the slope looks too gentle to be flowing water levels 07:31 LazyJ Checking... 07:32 paramat there's definately a sudden change along x = 47 07:32 LazyJ Shaders, then the three "Waving" options are checked. 07:33 hmmmm for what it's worth, around that area there are several rectangular-shaped mystery gaps 07:33 paramat the dirt terrain seems slightly different in the 2 original images, i guess because mudflow 07:33 hmmmm mudflow is deterministic 07:34 hmmmm all this is deterministic. everything either uses perlin noise or pseudorandom 07:34 paramat but if the caves are diffenrent mudflow will be different 07:34 hmmmm booya 07:34 hmmmm on my third attempt I got a caved version 07:34 paramat lol 07:35 paramat caves are so problematic in mgv6 seeing this along x = 47 doesnt surprise me 07:36 paramat we're gonna move to noise-determined caves in all other mapgens 07:38 hmmmm alrighty 07:38 LazyJ I just looked... the map_meta_txt files are formatted differently than some of the older test worlds. 07:39 hmmmm so I just replaced cave air with glass 07:40 hmmmm there's simply no piece of cave there at all 07:42 hmmmm alright got it 07:42 hmmmm it's a large_cave 07:46 paramat it looks like the edge of a large cave bleeding across a mapchunk border, i used to get those in my lua mapgens all the time 07:46 hmmmm i don't get why it sometimes appears 07:47 hmmmm half the large cave is walled in, sure, but it doesn't exist at all in most other versions 07:48 gregorycu Is there a good way to profile mods to see how much time they use of the cpu 07:48 gregorycu I'm making a mod, but I want to have a handle on perf from the start 07:52 paramat yeah you can time mods, see any of my recent mods for the code 07:54 kahrl in recent versions you can add mod_profiling = true to minetest.conf 07:54 kahrl then run the server for a bit and type the chat command /save_mod_profile 07:54 gregorycu Thanks mate 07:55 kahrl detailed_profiling = true if you want more details 07:57 paramat okay i ran identical watershed versions with identical seeds, one in latest git, one in a months-old MT, can confirm similar-but-different terrains 07:57 gregorycu Apparently an invalid command 07:57 hmmmm it's simply a boundary condition large cave messup 07:58 hmmmm there's no reason to be worried i think 07:58 gregorycu I have 4.10 07:58 paramat yeah different issue to LJ's 07:58 hmmmm ?? 07:58 gregorycu I'll dig around 08:00 paramat old MT version https://cdn.mediacru.sh/D/D4RoEZLzMHLh.png 08:00 paramat latest git https://cdn.mediacru.sh/h/hnQFCLE8ixwf.png 08:00 paramat biomes and trees very similar, terrain different 08:01 hmmmm what is that 08:01 hmmmm v5? 08:01 paramat watershed 08:02 hmmmm something obviously screwed up... 08:02 hmmmm bisect time? 08:03 paramat yep, in the next few days 08:03 paramat latest git seems spikier, like persist increased 08:04 paramat the fissures are very similar too 08:05 paramat i look forward to relaxing with some lua modding after 0.4.11 is out `=P 08:05 LazyJ So, if I understand it correctly, "bisecting" means to start with an old version of Minetest, create a world, then switch to the newest version of Minetest, recreate that world with the same specs, and keep working through the Minetest commits till there is a match, then backup one to identify the commit that's affecting the change? 08:06 Everdras LazyJ: bisecting means doing a binary search through commits to find the defect 08:06 hmmmm the point of it is to find the commit that's creating the problem, yes, but you don't keep trying each one 08:06 Everdras so you start with one that's bad, and one that's good 08:07 paramat 'yeah different issue to LJ's' sorry both issues are LJ's ... it's 8am here 08:07 Everdras it knows the commit that introduced it is in between 08:07 LazyJ 12am here and the coffee isn't doing it for me anymore. 08:07 Everdras so it goes halfway: is it still good? go nearer to the present. is it bad now? go further back 08:07 Everdras repeat till you're at the naughty commit 08:08 Zeno` hey, that sounds like a binary search! 08:08 Zeno` the things people think of 08:08 Everdras which is why I said... 08:08 Zeno` 'tis amazing 08:08 LazyJ How far back to start with, paramat? 08:08 Everdras "bisecting means doing a bsearch through commits" 08:08 Everdras any good commit works 08:09 LazyJ Trouble is, at this point, we aren't sure how old this problem is, no idea what was the last good commit. 08:09 paramat erm i would start with a version just before hmmmmm's recent batch of commits, so a week or 2 ago 08:09 Everdras guess you could binary search for that 08:10 Everdras start halfway... is it broken? no, go into the future, yes, go into the past 08:10 hmmmm they should take commit privs away from me 08:10 hmmmm i did horrible things with the codebase the past 2-3 days 08:10 paramat nah good things, just a lot of stuff so a problem is not unexpected 08:11 Everdras "even perfect code has bugs" 08:15 paramat my guess is something to do with 3D noise, something that increases persistence 08:16 gregorycu Is there a list of upcoming enhancements? 08:19 paramat time to sleep on it .. 08:20 LazyJ G'night and thanks ;) 08:26 LazyJ Zeno`, I've got a couple lines of core dumps for you, if they make any sense. 08:26 LazyJ ~/scripts/lazyj.sh: line 2: 21579 Segmentation fault (core dumped) ~/Minetest/Minetest_game_stuff/01_minetest/lazyj/bin/./minetest --logfile '' 08:27 LazyJ Then from yesterday: 08:27 LazyJ *** Error in `~/Minetest/Minetest_game_stuff/01_minetest/lazyj/bin/./minetest': double free or corruption (!prev): 0x0000000002cec570 *** 08:27 LazyJ ~/scripts/lazyj.sh: line 2: 22470 Aborted (core dumped) ~/Minetest/Minetest_game_stuff/01_minetest/lazyj/bin/./minetest --logfile '' 08:29 LazyJ If I allowed Minetest to create the debug.txt file, would it provide any useful info in this case? 09:31 Zeno` ahh, the Krock is here 09:31 Krock omg. where? 09:31 Zeno` the one blaming me for stuff I have nothing to do with :P~~~ 09:31 Zeno` there! 09:31 Zeno` he spoketh! 09:31 Zeno` I heard the Krock utter words! 09:32 Zeno` heh 09:32 Krock Ok. My guess for the 'bad commit' was wrong then. 09:33 * Zeno` forgives you 09:33 Zeno` I bet you feel a lot better now. lmao 09:34 Krock same as today morning after eating some braid with cheese 09:36 Zeno` what's that 09:37 Krock http://www.baeckerei-bohnenblust.ch/pictures/8b/ghrmq2qqrotvlfpvikf3szro9ryl1w/zopf-428.jpg 09:38 Zeno` oh. they look awesome 09:39 Krock srsly, you've never had that ... food? 09:39 Krock such tasty 09:40 Zeno` yes we have similar 09:49 * Krock wonders why the craftive-icon has a black background 09:49 * Krock wants to say creative. 09:55 Wuzzy Hi, how do I avoid making items disappear automatically? 09:56 Wuzzy (dropped items, of course) 09:56 Krock They shouldn't disappear at all 09:57 Wuzzy even after 10 min? 09:58 Wuzzy I heard of a setting called “item_entity_ttl” but I am not sure if this still works 09:58 LazyJ # Time in seconds for item entity to live. Default value: 900s 09:58 LazyJ # Setting it to -1 disables the feature 09:59 LazyJ Default #item_entity_ttl = 900 09:59 LazyJ Which it said in the first line. (facepalms) 09:59 Wuzzy not in my files 10:00 Wuzzy I wonder if it is still active in current dev versions 10:00 LazyJ minetest.conf.example of 2014_12_12 has it at line 288. 10:01 Wuzzy that doesnt mean the setting still *works* ;) 10:01 PenguinDad Wuzzy: the setting still works 10:01 Wuzzy how do you know? 10:01 LazyJ It works in my singleplayer worlds. 10:01 Wuzzy Did you test it? 10:01 Wuzzy Does -1 also work? 10:01 Wuzzy for you 10:02 LazyJ I have mine set for 0 (instant delete). 10:02 LazyJ I play in creative-mode so I don't need the litter. 10:02 Wuzzy I have a problem with my tutorial world. 10:02 Wuzzy In dev versions of Minetest, items do not appear in the world anymore 10:02 Wuzzy of Tutorial World 10:03 Wuzzy in 0.4.10, items are there 10:03 Wuzzy but if I start Tutorial world in dev, items are not there :( 10:03 Wuzzy Oh, and I set item_entity_ttl to -1 in minetest.conf of game 10:03 Wuzzy I am very very puzzled about this 10:03 Wuzzy sadly, this breaks the tutorial 10:04 Krock minetest.setting_set("item_entity_ttl", "-1"); 10:04 LazyJ Is the tutorial strictly vanilla? 10:04 Wuzzy I also have to say, the items there are very “old”, a lot more than just 15 minutes for sure 10:05 Wuzzy No, it uses its own subgame I wrote. 10:05 Amaz Do you have that setting in your normal minetest.conf? 10:05 Wuzzy Krock: Why should I do this? What’s the point of minetest.conf in subgame then? 10:05 Wuzzy No, in minetest.conf in subgame folder. 10:06 Krock Oh. does that file actualy get read by th engine? 10:06 Amaz So that setting does not exist at all in your normal minetest.conf? 10:06 Wuzzy No, of course not. I don’t want to have it globally for all worlds. 10:06 Wuzzy Also, it would make it non-distributable. 10:06 Amaz Okay. 10:07 Wuzzy The strange thing is, Tutorial World items are there in 0.4.10, but are gone in dev :( 10:07 Amaz Just checking because if you had it with a different value in the global minetest.conf, it would overwrite the game's minetest.conf. 10:08 PenguinDad Wuzzy: afaik some change in latest dev broke the reading of minetest.conf in the game's folder 10:08 Wuzzy I am not the only one experiencing the problem. In fact, c55 reported it. 10:08 Wuzzy -_- lol 10:08 Wuzzy That would explain it. 10:08 Wuzzy Can you gimme link to issue? 10:08 Wuzzy weit 10:08 Wuzzy I have to check it 10:08 PenguinDad There's no issue yet 10:09 Wuzzy Hmm, in minetest.conf I can just store any arbitrary key-value thing, right? 10:09 Krock yeah 10:09 Wuzzy So I could type in “some_crap = 34” and read it afterwards by scritps and stuff, right? 10:09 PenguinDad yes 10:09 Wuzzy oh great, then I can test if the minetest.conf feature is broken for me. 10:09 Krock minetest.setting_get("some_crap") -> 34 10:10 Wuzzy or just /set some_crap in console ;) 10:11 Krock * /set -n some_crap xyz 10:11 Wuzzy ugh, I just want to read it 10:13 Wuzzy Yes, it’s true. 10:13 Wuzzy Any setting I set in subgame’s minetest.conf are not set :O 10:13 * PenguinDad jumps on the hype train 10:13 Wuzzy omg why is there no issue for this bug yet 10:13 Wuzzy I guess I better report it lol 10:13 Wuzzy hmm wait, better I update my source before that 10:14 Wuzzy Thanks, people for your help. :) 10:14 Krock !c 900 / 60 10:14 MinetestBot 15.0 10:14 Krock !c 30 * 60 10:14 MinetestBot 1800 10:17 Zeno` I wanted to print ZERO and my program prints ZENO 10:17 Zeno` this is not good 10:17 Krock xD 10:17 * Zeno` fears for his sanity 10:18 PenguinDad Zeno`: did you start with it --disable-unittests? :P 10:18 jin_xi Zeno, crash minetestbot with a division! 10:19 Wuzzy !c 0/0 10:19 MinetestBot ZeroDivisionError: division by zero 10:19 Wuzzy nice try 10:19 Wuzzy What is 10 divided by Zeno? 10:19 jin_xi 11 10:19 Krock !c 10 / Zeno 10:19 MinetestBot NameError: name 'Zeno' is not defined 10:20 Krock Zeno`, who are you? 10:20 PenguinDad !c 42 / 0 10:20 MinetestBot ZeroDivisionError: division by zero 10:20 PenguinDad :( 10:20 Krock but 0 / 0 should result in "Not defined" 10:20 Wuzzy Zeno = 0.90909090909090… 10:21 Krock !c (10*10) / (9*9) 10:21 MinetestBot 1.2345679012345678 10:21 Zeno` Zeno`, it's ok, you're probably just tired 10:21 Zeno` Thanks Zenie 10:23 Zeno` !c 1 / 10 * 3 10:23 MinetestBot 0.30000000000000004 10:23 Zeno` !c 1 / (10 * 3) 10:23 MinetestBot 0.03333333333333333 10:23 Zeno` !c 1 / (10 / 3) 10:23 MinetestBot 0.3 10:23 Zeno` amazing 10:24 Zeno` !c 1 / 10 * 3 10:24 MinetestBot 0.30000000000000004 10:24 Zeno` !c 3 * 1 / 10 10:24 MinetestBot 0.3 10:24 Wuzzy hahaha 10:24 Zeno` the bot is crazy 10:24 PenguinDad D: 10:24 Wuzzy maybe it runs on Intel XD 10:26 Zeno` what can we do?! 10:26 Zeno` I propose a... 10:26 Zeno` I don't know what do to! 10:26 PenguinDad Listen to good music?! 10:26 Zeno` ok 10:27 Zeno` !1==1 10:27 Zeno` !c 1==1 10:27 MinetestBot True 10:27 Zeno` TRUE! 10:27 Zeno` !c 10 * 3 / 4 + 1 == 1 + 3 * 10 / 4 10:27 MinetestBot True 10:27 Zeno` TRUE! 10:27 PenguinDad !c 1>2==False 10:27 MinetestBot False 10:27 PenguinDad D: 10:27 Zeno` it's broken! 10:28 Amaz !c 1!=2 10:28 MinetestBot True 10:28 PenguinDad !c (1>2)==False 10:28 MinetestBot True 10:28 PenguinDad :D 10:29 Krock ehm. why can't I override builtin:item anymore? 10:29 Jordach always blame ShadowNinja if something edits builtin 10:29 Zeno` !c 3*1/41 == 1/31*3 10:29 MinetestBot False 10:30 Zeno` !c 3*1/41 == 1/41*3 10:30 MinetestBot False 10:30 Zeno` *GASP* 10:31 PenguinDad !c *1/41 - 1/41*3 10:31 MinetestBot SyntaxError: invalid syntax (, line 1) 10:31 PenguinDad !c 3*1/41 - 1/41*3 10:31 MinetestBot -1.3877787807814457e-17 10:33 Zeno` O.O 10:33 Krock it calculates like (3*1)/41 - (1/41)*3 10:34 Krock but both should result in the same thing.. 10:34 Krock !c (3*1)/41 == (1/41)*3 10:34 MinetestBot False 10:35 Zeno` !c 1000 + 0100 + 0010 + 0001 10:35 MinetestBot SyntaxError: invalid token (, line 1) 10:35 Zeno` broken 10:35 Zeno` !c (1000 + 0100 + 0010 + 0001) 10:35 MinetestBot SyntaxError: invalid token (, line 1) 10:35 Krock !c 1000+ 100 + 10+1 10:35 MinetestBot 1111 10:36 Zeno` we've upset it 10:36 PenguinDad *her 10:36 Zeno` her* 10:37 Zeno` http://codepad.org/AZhF7Cik 10:37 Zeno` codepad broken as well :( 10:37 Zeno` has there been a sun flare? 10:38 Krock Zeno`, you're sure it's not counted as 0b0010 ? 10:39 Krock !c 2 + 4 + 8 - 1 + 1000 10:39 MinetestBot 1013 10:39 Zeno` -1 ? 10:40 Zeno` 0b1kan0b? 10:40 Krock not sure why I did -1 10:40 Zeno` codepad is obviously broken 10:41 Zeno` or C 10:41 Zeno` one of the two 10:41 PenguinDad or both :P 10:43 Zeno` PenguinDad, I have made a terrible discovery 10:43 Zeno` python -c "print 1000 + 0100 + 0010 + 0001" 10:43 Zeno` 1073?! 10:44 * Zeno` looks for his straight jacket 10:44 PenguinDad Zeno`: lua says it's 1111 10:44 Zeno` Lua is broken 10:44 Zeno` lol 10:45 Krock Zeno`, Visual C++ returns 1073 too 10:46 Zeno` :-o 10:46 Zeno` so does Perl! 10:46 jin_xi its octal with leading 0 10:46 Zeno` jin_xi, why do you ruin my fun? :( 10:46 * Zeno` gets grumpy 10:46 jin_xi Muahahahah now go fix that leak 10:46 Zeno` hehehe 10:47 * PenguinDad leaks a few globals :> 10:49 Zeno` leak? 10:49 Zeno` what leak? >.> 10:49 Zeno` that's CACHE 10:50 Zeno` I don't think I should have had those beers 10:51 Zeno` that leak goes back a loooong way btw 10:51 Zeno` I tried to bisect but gave up because it was taking so long 10:51 * Krock loves headers like "typedef unsigned char u8;" 10:51 Krock much easier to type 10:51 Zeno` pity char is not necessarily 8 bits 10:52 Krock damn those exceptions 10:52 jin_xi ugh its wrong anyway. should be just chars and signed chars. same with int. fuck this shite 10:52 Zeno` that's what I say as well 10:53 Zeno` well... whether or not char is signed or unsigned is implementation defined 10:56 Zeno` and char on one of my CPUs has 12 bits 10:56 Zeno` kind of annoying 10:57 PenguinDad Zeno`: why not 16 bits? 10:57 Zeno` PenguinDad, I guess it likes 12 10:57 PenguinDad But I like powers of two 10:57 Zeno` there are a lot of 12-bit DSPs 11:06 Zeno` ranges in voxels are strange 11:07 Zeno` I think they depend on orientation :/ 11:08 Zeno` Wuzzy, do you still have your bug? 11:09 Wuzzy I have not tested in new version yet 11:10 Zeno` ok 11:14 CWz so Zeno` how much of a performance boost do you predict after your server optimizations 11:14 Zeno` not much 11:14 Zeno` who told you I was looking at the server? :) 11:15 PenguinDad A performance boost of about 2^512% :P 11:15 Zeno` lol 11:15 Zeno` yes, as I said: not much 11:15 Zeno` there bottlenecks I've mostly addressed when concentrating on the client 11:17 Zeno` there is something very strange about voxels 11:18 Zeno` VoxelAreas* 11:18 Krock Whoa Brain has crashed! Restart now? 11:24 Zeno` Not the Whoa Brain! 11:25 Zeno` wait, what's the Whoa Brain? 11:26 PenguinDad Whoa Google Chrome! 11:26 PenguinDad lol 11:58 MinetestBot 02[git] 04PilzAdam -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Fix typo in furnace.lua 13854415f http://git.io/Oox5Cg (152014-12-13T12:52:47+01:00) 12:05 MinetestBot 02[git] 04PilzAdam -> 03minetest/minetest: Update german translation 13ce4ed65 http://git.io/GP2byw (152014-12-13T13:00:11+01:00) 12:07 hisforeverkid need a past url please? 12:07 hisforeverkid pasre 12:08 hisforeverkid wish I could type lol 12:29 hisforeverkid dose anybody have a url for paste ? 12:30 ElectronLibre http://pastie.org <= This one for example? 13:00 MinetestBot 02[git] 04Zeno- -> 03minetest/minetest: Provide more info if a subgame is not valid/found 13a145a6a http://git.io/FFpxNQ (152014-12-13T22:58:34+10:00) 13:02 MinetestBot 02[git] 04Zeno- -> 03minetest/minetest: Provide more info if a subgame is not valid/found 13784a452 http://git.io/T_llMg (152014-12-13T23:01:16+10:00) 13:06 Zeno` yes, yes 13:10 Amaz MinetestBot, you may like Zeno` but is it really necessary to tell us about his commit twice? ;) 13:29 MinetestBot Amaz: yes, it is, because they are actually different commits (look at the IDs) 13:29 Amaz Opps. 13:30 Amaz My apologises then MinetestBot! 13:30 sfan5 Release Candidate builds for 0.4.11 are out: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=10742 13:31 Amaz Shows what skim reading does ;P 13:31 Amaz So is there a feature freeze now? 13:32 PenguinDad Amaz: just look at the topic in the dev channel :P 13:32 Amaz I could, but there is the factor of laziness :P 13:33 Amaz I mean, I would have to type /topic ! 13:33 Amaz Hang on, I just did it! ;) 13:33 PenguinDad "FEATURE FREEZE FOR 0.4.11 IN EFFECT! | Minetest core development and maintenance..." 13:33 hisforeverkid how can I correct this spanning errors http://pastie.org/9778103? 14:19 MinetestBot 02[git] 04Zeno- -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix misleading error when exiting the client from the main menu 13b5e11e0 http://git.io/U5F3CQ (152014-12-14T00:07:44+10:00) 14:27 blaze blais3: hi 14:53 Jordach PenguinDad, Savant's new album be out 14:58 PenguinDad Jordach: I know dat 15:04 Zeno` nerrrrrrrrrrrr I know dat too :p 15:05 Zeno` whois is Savant? 15:05 catninja Happy lucia everyone! 15:05 PenguinDad Take my hand we'll go to zion *sings* 15:06 LazyJ Savant is the number before ate. :0) 15:06 LazyJ idk either, I haven't kept up kids music. 15:07 ElectronLibre catninja: Did you mean light's day? 15:08 catninja ElectronLibre: no http://vimeo.com/55253944 lucia day 15:10 ElectronLibre That's what I thought. It's the day of holy light's (I don't know how to say it in english in french it's "Saintes Lumières"). (It's the holy day for everyone how have a name like Lucy, Aurore, everything light-related) 15:11 PenguinDad Holy day for lighz bulbs :D 15:11 PenguinDad *light 15:11 catninja ElectronLibre: oh cool! 15:12 * ElectronLibre thinks of the one which is working since 1901 in a fire station ._. 15:12 catninja soon its midwintersnight too, darkest day of the year! the day of sacrificing animals and such to get the sun back 15:13 catninja 20th of december, 4h 16min of sunlight here 15:13 ElectronLibre 4h of sunlight in Sweden.. Wow.. ._. 15:15 PenguinDad LazyJ, Zeno`: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phhPSwFdgS8&list=UU5ur2L6Zu4oCShmtFw9UTfQ 15:16 catninja were still south of the polar circle, when my mother was young grandpa used to sit and watch the sun go down for the last time in 3weeks with pain in his eyes 15:16 LazyJ "Arrival" - Ok, thanks, PenguinDad ;) 15:16 Zeno` sounds like a tracker track 15:17 LazyJ Heh. I was thinking some of tunes from the video games I wasted all my quarters on. 15:17 Zeno` https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9zmLQGBTIw 15:18 ElectronLibre Catninja: It must be beautiful *-* 15:18 LazyJ But it's not as harsh sounding as I was expecting. 15:19 LazyJ Ahh.. now that tune brings back memories. That and the theme song to Top Gun where the local radio station's favorites. 15:20 catninja ElectronLibre: it is, the sami land is beautiful, sometimes reindeers wanders off into town and there is crazy aurora borealis since there is no light to disturb the sight 15:24 catninja omg an aurora borealismod would be sooo coool for minetest *____ 15:24 catninja * 15:25 * ElectronLibre imagines the scene *-* 15:26 Zeno` https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlfYF79ENf8 15:27 catninja Zeno`: you are ruining the mood x) 15:27 Zeno` sowwy :( 15:27 Zeno` what mood? 15:27 catninja wintery dream mood 15:28 Zeno` Oh, sorry, I was going back to The Scene 15:28 Zeno` the scene these days is not what it used to be ;( 15:28 catninja I think both canadians and swedes would be happy about a reindeer, moose and auroramod. that would be golden. 15:29 catninja realistic reindeers that do not move when you walk into them 15:29 catninja stupid reindeers *mutters* 15:29 LazyJ Was it really 1994!? (groan) When did yesterday become 20yrs? 15:29 Zeno` how about PC speaker music? 15:29 Zeno` https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wu5zd5fCaPA 15:30 Zeno` who needs a sound card 15:31 LazyJ Oh, joys. The little paper speakers of "beep, beep, beep" (you installed the ribbons or some DIP switch wrong). 15:31 catninja I do not think I'm old enough for this discussion 15:31 Zeno` LazyJ, I even made one of my old floppy disks play music (sounded terrible though) 15:32 Zeno` catninja, the PC speaker is supposed to beep and nothing else 15:32 LazyJ The 3.5 floppies or the 5.25 real floppies? 15:32 Zeno` and it is beeping... just very fast ;) 15:32 Zeno` 3.5 floppy drive 15:32 exio4 I remember a program I made in turbopascal! 15:33 Zeno` LazyJ, the REAL floppies are 8" 15:33 ElectronLibre Oh my.. Back in the 80-90's! 15:33 exio4 that did that, I found a procedure that did the tricks for the beeps 15:33 exio4 and I then made "music" with it & sleep :D 15:33 catninja Zeno`: *backs away slowly* 15:33 Zeno` exio4, yeah. We made do with what we had :) 15:34 exio4 I wish I didn't lose my "super-engine" in turbopascal+vga graphics 15:34 exio4 I remember writing a "nearly-bruteforce" approach for drawing lines 15:34 exio4 (because I didn't have the math skills for doing it properly) 15:35 exio4 I made it draw cubes, most of the stuff was hardcoded and obviously only wireframe, but it was like a work of 3-4 weeks til I got something that worked! it was too slow for anything sane though 15:35 exio4 ;_; I wish I was a child again 15:36 exio4 I don't remember the approach I used, I remember I did some dirty tricks for converting things to "my own way to measure angles" and then do magic with that :P 15:36 Zeno` hehe ;) 15:36 exio4 iirc I used an scale from 1 to 16 or 8, so it wasn't _that_ smooth 15:37 exio4 (the approach = how I did it, I remember the high-level details) 15:37 exio4 I should install W98 again and turbopascal again! 15:37 Zeno` you should 15:37 Zeno` why not?! 15:38 exio4 because I am lazy! 15:38 exio4 if I wasn't a lazy ass I would have done a lot more for other people, and even minetest! 15:41 Zeno` hehehe 15:52 PenguinDad ChanServ: come back soon! :( 15:56 shadowzone PenguinDad, you got that too? 15:57 PenguinDad shadowzone: WALLOPS 15:57 shadowzone Lol 15:59 ElectronLibre It's the precise moment we musn't all be disconnected of the channel :°... 16:01 shadowzone atleast we have ShadowBot and MinetestBot 16:03 Krock o.o CHanServ is gone 16:03 shadowzone YEs 16:03 shadowzone just died 16:04 PenguinDad Krock: even ChanServ needs a break :D 16:04 Krock PenguinDad, I see 16:05 * PenguinDad is a bit sad because he switches to windows on monday 16:05 shadowzone Why not dual boot? 16:05 ElectronLibre Oh poor you :'( 16:05 * Krock is a bit happy because he doesn't need to switch to windows 16:05 PenguinDad shadowzone: I might do that sometime later 16:05 shadowzone Wincrap 16:06 * Krock fills shadowzone with Windoze 16:06 shadowzone Krock, what fer? 16:06 * PenguinDad drinks some Winbooze 16:08 * ElectronLibre is a bit sad because he has to move about a thousand of global variables to local variables for some servers --' 16:09 Krock ElectronLibre, just put a "--[[" blah blah "]]" around everything. problem solved. 16:10 ElectronLibre But I'm gonna get a lot of these purple Unkown nodes, and the servers' owners' won't be happy.. :° 16:11 Krock :/ 16:11 ElectronLibre I've got enough time to move them, it's just gonna take at least 2 hours.. 16:24 * PenguinDad hugs ChanServ 16:24 ElectronLibre He is back :3 16:27 shadowzone CHANSERV! 16:27 PenguinDad ElectronLibre: *she 16:27 ElectronLibre Sorry. 16:28 PenguinDad cause all bots are female 16:28 ElectronLibre Yes, I've just remembered. 16:30 Calinou bots don't have a gender, they don't think 16:37 exio4 what do you think they are Calinou 16:37 exio4 just programs? 16:37 exio4 no, they are living things! 16:37 Calinou they are bots, they… obey (at best) 16:37 exio4 what if you want to marry with a bot? is that illegal? 16:37 Krock ^ 16:37 Calinou yes 16:38 Krock Fritigern, happy b-day! 16:38 Zeno` !c 3/1/4 == 3/4/1 16:38 MinetestBot True 16:38 ElectronLibre It's just useless. 16:38 Zeno` !c 3/10/4 == 3/(4/10) 16:38 MinetestBot False 16:38 Zeno` !c 3/4/10 == 3/(4/10) 16:38 MinetestBot False 16:38 exio4 that is discrimination Calinou 16:38 Krock !c 27**(1/3) 16:38 MinetestBot 3.0 16:39 Zeno` !c 5/6*11 == 5/(6*11) 16:39 MinetestBot False 16:39 Zeno` broken 16:39 Zeno` beyond hope 16:39 shadowzone no ChanServ is a male 16:39 shadowzone MinetestBot and ShadowBot are female 16:39 exio4 you wish 16:40 Krock Zeno`, it's not broken since 5/6 * 11 is not 5/66 16:40 Zeno` oh yeah! 16:40 Zeno` !c 5/6*11 == 5/(11*6) 16:40 MinetestBot False 16:40 Zeno` still broken :( 16:40 Krock still not broken. same thing again 16:41 ElectronLibre !c (5/6)*11 = 5/6*11 16:41 MinetestBot SyntaxError: invalid syntax (, line 1) 16:41 ElectronLibre !c (5/6)*11 == 5/6*11 16:41 MinetestBot True 16:41 ElectronLibre ^ Not broken. 16:41 Zeno` !c 5/6*11 == 11*5/6 16:41 MinetestBot False 16:41 Krock !c 5*11/6 == 5*(11/6) 16:41 MinetestBot True 16:41 Krock ^not broken 16:41 Zeno` !c 5/6*11 == 11*5/6 16:41 MinetestBot False 16:41 Zeno` broken 16:42 Krock Zeno`, it calculates from left to right, so it's correct 16:42 Zeno` huh? 16:42 Zeno` !c 1/10*4 == 4*1/10 16:42 MinetestBot True 16:42 Krock 5/66 != 55/6 16:42 ElectronLibre Operators' proprities. 16:42 Zeno` !c 1/11*4 == 4*1/11 16:42 MinetestBot True 16:43 Krock yes, that's correct 16:43 ElectronLibre (I learnt that when I was 7) 16:43 Zeno` !c 3*4/2 == 3/2*4 16:43 MinetestBot True 16:43 Zeno` it works! 16:43 Zeno` amazing! 16:43 Krock yomg wow 16:43 Krock now verify it with ShadowBot's results 16:43 Zeno` !c 3/1/4 == 3/4/1 16:43 MinetestBot ... 16:44 Krock ^ xD 16:44 Krock it would be true btw 16:44 Zeno` !c 3/4*3 == 3*3/4 16:44 MinetestBot ... 16:44 Zeno` it broken again 16:44 Krock ##minetestbot 16:44 ElectronLibre She's just annoyed. 16:45 Zeno` put her back 16:45 Zeno` !c 3/14*3 == 3*3/14 16:45 MinetestBot False 16:45 Zeno` see? 16:45 Zeno` broken 16:46 Krock yes, now it is 16:46 Krock you broke it! 16:46 Zeno` I sowwy :( 16:46 Krock pls2repair Zeno`! 16:48 Zeno` !c 1/3 * 1/2 == 1/2 * 1/3 16:48 MinetestBot True 16:48 Zeno` fixed! 16:49 Zeno` !c 5/16 * 1/2 == 1/2 * 5/16 16:49 MinetestBot True 16:49 Zeno` yep, she's as good as new 16:50 Krock ShadowBot: calc 2/4*5 == 5*2/4 16:50 ShadowBot Krock: 1 16:50 Krock <3 ShadowBot 16:50 ShadowBot 04♥ Krock. 16:50 ElectronLibre How can she send a heart? ._. 16:50 Sokomine hi. has anyone got got any simple, small houses at hand for a test? need to be schematics 16:50 Krock ElectronLibre, ASCII codes 16:50 ElectronLibre Oh. 16:51 Krock Sokomine, how 'bout thosefrom mg_villages? :3 16:51 Zeno` !c 3/2 == 1 / (2/3) 16:51 MinetestBot ... 16:51 Zeno` she's broken again 16:51 shadowzone so MinetestBot is broken and ShadowBot is working just fine? 16:51 Sokomine Krock: i've added an option so that people can add their own villages easily. now i need something to demonstrate that feature 16:52 Sokomine after all this is a game where people are supposed to build. it'd be very boring if there's no way to add own structures easily 16:52 Krock Sokomine, http://nimg.pf-control.de/MTstuff/modSearch.php?q=house #2 16:52 Krock aarg 16:52 Krock it doesn't have schematics 16:53 Zeno` !c 5/5 + 1/8 == 1/8 + 4/4 16:53 MinetestBot True 16:53 Sokomine Krock: ah, good idea. hm, yes, currently mg_villages only supports recent worldedit, and it likes .mts far more 16:54 Krock Sokomine, okay.. how about this one? https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=6221 Haven't tested it 16:55 PenguinDad <3 ShadowBot 16:55 ShadowBot 04♥ PenguinDad. 16:55 Sokomine towntest may be suitable 17:01 Zeno` !c 1/10*7.1 == 7.1*1/10 17:01 MinetestBot True 17:04 Zeno` !c 1.1/3.0*4.1 == 4.1*1.1/3.0 17:04 MinetestBot False 17:04 Zeno` she's broken again! 17:05 Zeno` maybe we should put her to sleep? 17:06 PenguinDad !c math.e<3 03Uberi/MineTest-WorldEdit: Fix bug with loading old .we file formats, thanks to @Sokomine 13https:/ http://git.io/qFI7Gg (152014-12-13T21:13:11+01:00) 20:13 exio4 I don't think I have anything else to say :P 20:14 Krock s/"https:/"// 20:15 sfan5 hm 20:15 sfan5 something went wrong with the commit id 20:19 Krock 02[git] 04SmallJoker 01-> 03SmallJoker/base_game01: Revert mgv5/7 biomes 13https:/ 01http://git.io/noLiNk (152014-12-13T21:20:00+01:0001) 20:20 Krock copypasta! 20:23 DogePony Krock: the colors don't fit (: 20:24 DogePony *:( 20:24 Krock 08Doge13Pony 20:38 Krock 13,00- 14,14AnotherBrick 08,00quit 00,14(Read 10error: 00,00Connection 08,08reset 12by 00,00peer) 20:38 Krock beautifl 20:51 shibumi https://paste.archlinux.de/7aT/ 20:51 shibumi there are textures missing or something 20:51 DogePony 05,08K04,08r07,09o08,06c03,06k09,02: 10,06T11,08h02,06i12,06s 06,04i13,11s 05,04e04,03v07,13e08,06n 03,12m09,02o10,07r11,08e 02,08b12,03e06,04a13,10u05,03t04,03i07,09f08,10u03,07l 20:52 DogePony shibumi: everything's fine there 20:52 shibumi nope 20:52 kaeza "everything's fine" 20:52 shibumi I just see the background 20:52 kaeza >no terrain 20:53 kaeza 'different quotation marks' 20:53 DogePony kaeza: I'm blind today 20:53 sfan5 shibumi: graphics card? 20:53 shibumi sfan5: 00:01.0 VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Wrestler [Radeon HD 6310] 20:55 sfan5 hm 20:55 Krock DogePony, see what my new program does: 0100:01.0 13VGA 15compatible 01controller: 08Advanced 01Micro 11Devices, 09,11Inc. 01,00[AMD/ATI] 13Wrestler 15[Radeon 08,13HD 10,006310] 20:55 shibumi Krock: your programm is really buggy.. 20:56 Krock shibumi, yeah. fixing th marked spaces 20:57 Krock 13,01shibumi,00,00 14yeah. 13,03fixing00,00 04,03th00,00 12marked 03spaces 20:57 Jordach and Carbone wins the award of what the fuck dude https://cdn.mediacru.sh/6/6Tpa2Dhn1tfF.png 20:58 Krock Jordach, U no happy? 20:58 gravgun Indeed, there's much carbon in there 20:58 sfan5 shibumi: which video driver? 20:58 Krock coal 4 the win 20:59 shibumi sfan5: xf86-video-ati 1:7.5.0-1 21:00 sfan5 shibumi: the arch wiki says the open-src driver provides sufficient opengl for window managers, that probably means it doesn't work so well for gaming 21:01 Krock 14Y04a15y15,09!00,0006,09 00,0010m12o15r08e10 08t11e0708t12! 21:01 Krock 3text 21:01 shibumi So I should install the proprietary one sfan5 ? 21:01 kaeza exio4, now? https://github.com/kaeza/minetest/commit/b67e6dda6b01c29cd27638098481546e8bdb88cd 21:01 sfan5 I'd suggest you to try tha 21:01 exio4 the last kernel should be good enough 21:01 sfan5 t 21:01 exio4 kaeza, lemme check <3 21:02 kaeza exio4, also, -> #-es :3 21:16 kaeza https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=10745#p164529 21:22 sdzen hello there people 21:23 Krock sdzen, 07hi 21:24 sdzen its been awhile 21:24 sdzen feels like a year 21:25 sdzen or 0.4.7 21:25 sdzen I cant recall 21:26 Krock 0.4.7 is from 2013, yes 21:29 sdzen okay so a year 22:11 Jordach dem realtime physics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o0Nuq71gI4 22:17 gravgun Jordach: we're only getting closer and closer to simulating the Matrix ;) 22:20 Jordach gimme an oculus and ill be happy 22:24 kaeza we're closer to simulating the matrix [in graphics] 22:24 kaeza but what about *actual* gameplay? :( 22:25 Jordach kaeza, Minetest like AI 22:35 exio4 kaeza, suddenly: Skynet