IRC log for #minetest, 2014-12-13

Time	Nick	Message
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00:35	Lugal	hi
00:35	Lugal	i cant open the model files with blender anymore#
00:35	Lugal	any suggestions?
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00:36	Lugal	is there any tool being able to edit all modes in all open source games?
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01:56	LazyJ	Of the three default mapgens (v5, v6, v7) in Minetest, which one will be supported and maintained the longest?
01:56	LazyJ	And how long will that be?
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02:54	Tesseract	LazyJ: v5 and v7 are experimental at this point. v6 will be maintained until there's a better alternative. It will probably be kept for a year or more after that though.
02:54	Tesseract	So, v6 is "LTS".
02:56	LazyJ	Ah. Thanks. ;)
02:57	Lugal	How do I edit the .x model files?
02:57	LazyJ	Not sure.
02:58	LazyJ	I think Jordach and VanessaE have been using Blender for their mods' modeled stuff.
02:58	Tesseract	Lugal: Try to get the native file, probably a .blender.
02:59	VanessaE	LazyJ: yep
02:59	Lugal	its not blender, its .x
03:00	VanessaE	blender is a 3d modeling program used to produce those .x files
03:00	VanessaE	however I don't know if it can re-import them
03:00	Lugal	but I cant open them with blender
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03:00	Lugal	so blender can only save .x but not open it?
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03:07	LazyJ	paramat, looks like one of the engine updates since 2014_12_10 broke "Watershed".
03:08	paramat	hopefully mgv5 and mgv6 will be supported indefinitely, mgv7 is the most likely to be trashed although i'm fighting to keep it in
03:08	paramat	okay i'll try it
03:09	LazyJ	minetest.get_perlin seems to be at the base of the problem.
03:09	paramat	hmmmmm is considering starting mgv8
03:09	LazyJ	watershed/init.lua:259: attempt to index local 'nvals_terrain' (a nil value)
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03:09	paramat	yeah lots of changes, see my latest forum post
03:09	paramat	we're in feature freeze now so stuff needs to be tested for 0.4.11 release
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03:10	LazyJ	Earlier I had asked what default, Minetest mapgen (v5, v6, v7) would be kept and maintained for the long term and how long is "long term".
03:10	paramat	yep saw that
03:10	LazyJ	The response was mapgen v6 for a year after it's replacement has been found.
03:11	paramat	yeah that's not correct
03:11	paramat	luckily
03:11	LazyJ	So which one is long term enough to use on a server?
03:12	paramat	v5/v6
03:12	paramat	only really bad mapgens will be trashed
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03:12	paramat	personally i would like to build up a variety
03:13	paramat	i see more potential in mgv5 than mgv6 so i would suggest mgv5
03:13	paramat	but it's down to your tastes
03:14	LazyJ	A variety would add more interest in Minetest but stability, reliability, and longevity are the points that severs depend on.
03:14	LazyJ	Well, servers that are going to be around for more than a couple months. ;)
03:14	paramat	mgv5 won't be stable for a while i'm working on improving the biome API
03:15	paramat	and creating the default biomes
03:15	paramat	for immediate use mgv6 is still the one
03:16	LazyJ	What is the future of Watershed?
03:16	paramat	i'll be adding optional snow biomes to that and fixing the discontinuities at y = 47 so you can have mush higher terrain
03:16	paramat	^ mgv6
03:16	paramat	watershed: new underground system of tunnels, caves, fissures, otherwise staying the same
03:17	paramat	my new ideas are going into riverdev (which is watershed 2)
03:17	LazyJ	My concern is if you stop maintaining Watershed, future engine updates may break it again.
03:18	paramat	watershed is popular, even with c55, so i will maintain it
03:18	paramat	but not develop it much, underground changes are not so noticeable
03:19	LazyJ	Good to hear.
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03:21	LazyJ	Looks like "scale" was removed from the engines perlin stuff (sorry, I'm not a programmer).
03:22	paramat	nvals_terrain being nil means getperlinmap has failed
03:23	paramat	hmmmm one for you ^
03:23	LazyJ	Box cliffs scared my long-term, Watershed yesterday.
03:25	paramat	:( a terrain discontinuity
03:25	LazyJ	I assume they are at the edge where the active_block_range stopped, and the updated engine code did something else when I got close enough to activate another block.
03:25	paramat	well a new mapchunk was generated and was discontinous
03:25	paramat	it seems
03:26	paramat	if the edges of the discontinuities are 80 nodes long -> mapchunks
03:26	LazyJ	About 400 nodes long (north-south)
03:27	LazyJ	These are common in the older servers I've toured.
03:27	LazyJ	Box cliffs and box canyons.
03:28	LazyJ	So far I haven't seen a mod that will reshape and blend them into the terrain.
03:29	paramat	oh actually watershed can regen chunks
03:29	paramat	luckily for you
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03:29	LazyJ	How do I do that?
03:29	paramat	only do it after we fix this
03:29	LazyJ	Hehehe... well, how do I do that when Watershed doesn't crash Minetest anymore. ;)-
03:30	paramat	see int/lua line 630
03:30	LazyJ	"Don't start the engine." "No problem. It's outta gas."
03:30	paramat	init.lua
03:31	paramat	just type /regen as a chat command
03:31	paramat	while in the mapchunk you want regenerated
03:31	LazyJ	How do I tell it were to start and stop?
03:31	LazyJ	Ah.
03:32	paramat	it will regen the 80^3 mapchunk around the player
03:32	LazyJ	That's good to know. Thanks!
03:32	LazyJ	But back to putting the bug in your ear.... ;)-
03:32	paramat	i'm happy i added that now
03:33	LazyJ	Me too, me too.
03:33	paramat	so i need to run it with 'debug log level = 4' in .conf
03:34	LazyJ	There are three other lines in that error.
03:34	paramat	hmmmmm is very busy so this may take a few days to fix
03:35	LazyJ	I spent all summer setting up the mods for this world, a year of planning before that. I can wait a couple days.
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03:40	paramat	works for me with very latest minetest dev
03:40	LazyJ	How latest?
03:41	LazyJ	Ah...\
03:41	LazyJ	My last compile was after Zeno' fixed a typo (9f65fd6).
03:44	paramat	i compiled 2 hours ago, try with latest, you can always regen the terrain if it still fails
03:44	LazyJ	Downloading now...
03:45	hmmmm	hi LazyJ, what do you mean by this '
03:45	hmmmm	[10:21 PM] <LazyJ> Looks like "scale" was removed from the engines perlin stuff (sorry, I'm not a programmer).
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03:47	paramat	funny i can't see a commit since 9f6 that would fix noise
03:47	LazyJ	I looked at the line Watershed's error pointed too, and then looked at resent GitHub commits to find get_perlin, that lead to a section that a had all the things paramat used (seed, octaves, etc) but "scale" had been removed.
03:47	LazyJ	Looking back through to find the commit part I saw...
03:47	* Zeno`	hands paramat a pair of noise cancelling headphones
03:48	hmmmm	LazyJ, what's watershed's error?
03:49	LazyJ	watershed/init.lua:259: attempt to index local 'nvals_terrain' (a nil value)
03:49	hmmmm	does this error happen all the time?
03:50	Zeno`	errr
03:50	Zeno`	13:49:54: ERROR[main]: ERROR: An unhandled exception occurred: ...netest/worlds/ram-test/worldmods/caverealms/init.lua:189: attempt to index local 'nvals_cave' (a nil value)
03:50	Zeno`	^^^^ just noticed this then
03:51	Zeno`	restart server, happened again
03:51	Zeno`	so I guess every time (for me). This is caverealms not watershed obviously.
03:51	paramat	weird
03:52	LazyJ	I just downloaded the latest commit of Minetest, will have to compile before I can try Watershed again.
03:52	hmmmm	i changed it yesterday so that you can't use getMap3d on LuaPerlinNoiseMap objects created for 2d
03:52	hmmmm	are you doing bad things like that?
03:52	Zeno`	https://github.com/Zeno-/minetest-caverealms/blob/mtz/init.lua#L189
03:52	paramat	hmmmmm see discussion earlier in this channel (the last hour or so) for more info
03:52	LazyJ	Where I was looking at earlier: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/2b8180a417465845759096670f498bf71cd39403?diff=split
03:52	paramat	LJ how did you get box cliffs if the mod crashed?
03:53	LazyJ	src/script/lua_api/l_env.cpp, starting at line 593. But I'm guessing. This stuff is above my head for now.
03:54	LazyJ	The box cliffs formed yesterday.
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03:54	LazyJ	I downloaded and compiled the new commit of Minetest earlier this morning.
03:55	paramat	so crash first, then it worked again but with discontinuities. ah.. a crash causes empty mapchunks to appear
03:55	LazyJ	That's the one where the error came from.
03:55	LazyJ	No. Worked, cliffs, new download and compile of Minetest, run stuff again to check things out, Watershed world barfed.
03:56	paramat	even weirder
03:56	paramat	uh .. watershed just spawned me in watery a hole in the ground lol
03:56	LazyJ	There is about a 24hr gap between the Minetest versions.
03:56	paramat	(that's normal)
03:57	paramat	so it seems getperlinmap is failing
03:57	paramat	.. looking at your error message
03:58	LazyJ	Early AM 2014_12_11 was when I last compiled Minetest and box cliffs appeared in Watershed (but Watershed ran).
03:59	LazyJ	Then this morining (2014_12_12) I downloaded and compiled what was, at that time, the latest and greatest.
03:59	hmmmm	hi lazyj, could you try compiling the latest commit and try again
03:59	LazyJ	That's the version that didn't like Watershed.
03:59	LazyJ	Hehehe... Yup. Been sidetracked this past hour. :P
04:03	paramat	ah i see i have an undeclared global in a function. watershed works for me on 3rd try, again weird
04:05	LazyJ	Still compiling...
04:05	LazyJ	exit
04:06	LazyJ	Woops.
04:11	LazyJ	Ok, the test Watershed world is working. \0/
04:11	LazyJ	Now for the existing world.
04:11	paramat	when the box cliffs appeared were you using MTdev or 0.4.10 stable?
04:11	paramat	good
04:11	LazyJ	MTdev
04:12	LazyJ	I don't use the stable versions if I don't have too.
04:12	LazyJ	Risky, I know.
04:12	LazyJ	But it's how I monitor things before deciding to upgrade our server.
04:13	LazyJ	Success!
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04:17	LazyJ	paramat, the /regen isn't regenerating the terrain around me at the base of the cliff.
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04:19	LazyJ	Getting screenshots lined-up.
04:20	paramat	enable freemove and fly around above and below ground using regen multiple times, like every 80 nodes or so
04:21	paramat	hmmmmm you are king awesome!
04:21	LazyJ	[watershed] regenerate mapchunk
04:21	LazyJ	[watershed] 2421 ms
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04:32	LazyJ	Here are two screenshots of box cliffs:
04:32	LazyJ	http://imgur.com/96Q6Aru
04:32	LazyJ	http://imgur.com/ckbhY9b
04:33	LazyJ	So far, no-clipped flying around in the affected areas and using /regen... nothing happens.
04:33	* paramat	looks
04:33	LazyJ	Over, under, in the cliff, outside of the cliff... no joys.
04:34	paramat	okay screenshots look like noise params somehow changed across a chunk border
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04:35	paramat	which is why regen didn't fix it
04:35	hmmmm	hi LazyJ, I did a lot of work on noise lately, could you bisect the commits starting from about 3 days ago until now?
04:35	paramat	regen is regenning the discontinuity
04:36	paramat	you can test the regen by placing a node and seeing if it dissappears on regen
04:37	LazyJ	hmmmm, I don't know how or what you mean by bisect the commits. I'm the amateur in this.
04:37	hmmmm	i'm assuming this is paramat's mod?
04:38	paramat	bisect = track down the commit that caused this
04:38	paramat	yeah
04:38	LazyJ	Sorry. I wish I had the code skills to be of better help.
04:38	hmmmm	and you use get3dMap_flat()?
04:38	paramat	hmmmmm yes
04:39	hmmmm	how do you create that base terrain
04:39	paramat	https://github.com/paramat/watershed/blob/master/init.lua
04:40	paramat	erm it's super-complex
04:40	paramat	mixture of 2D and 3D noises
04:40	hmmmm	yeah you use get3dMap_flat for the parts that matter most, what i'm seeing
04:40	hmmmm	regardless i didn't change anything there aside from either 2d or 3d versions of that function aside from the safety check which has no bearing on the noise output
04:41	paramat	yep
04:41	paramat	the 2D noise raises or lowers the entire terrain
04:41	paramat	3D noise for the mountains
04:42	paramat	i will try my existing world's to see if i get discontinuities too
04:42	paramat	*worlds
04:42	hmmmm	yup, no clue...
04:43	paramat	thanks anyway, half a fix
04:43	hmmmm	i specifically removed the offset and scale application when i added that step directly to the noise functions
04:44	paramat	i always use offset = 0, scale = 1 in my noiseparams
04:44	paramat	.. from habit
04:44	LazyJ	This Watershed world of mine was started last fall, so it's a couple months old and however many Minetest (MTdev) updates in between.
04:45	LazyJ	In that time I've stayed in the same area, mostly.
04:45	hmmmm	yeah i have no idea unfortunately
04:46	LazyJ	So, paramat, if you go looking for discontinuities, pick an old world and travel to the edge of places you haven't frequented.
04:46	paramat	LJ yes exactly
04:49	paramat	LJ you could return to an older version of MT to avoid anymore bug-cliffs
04:50	LazyJ	Yup, that's my contingency plan.
04:51	paramat	bisect = find a version that works, find a version that doesnt, try the version halfway between, repeat
04:51	LazyJ	However, if this turns out to not be a fixable issue, then better to change my plans now than invest many more months.
04:53	LazyJ	Unfortunately, I don't have a backup copy of this world that is old enough anymore.
04:54	LazyJ	A short-coming of my backup practices that will be corrected.
04:56	LazyJ	The loose plan, atm, is to sideline this world, try to extract the decent builds with WorldEdit (which was slightly broken in recent engine updates), and start a new world... after these bugs have been found and worked-out.
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05:05	paramat	it sucks, but few log-term worlds escape glitches, it happens sometimes
05:07	LazyJ	Aye.
05:07	LazyJ	Wazuland2 has had it's share of gaffs and glitches along the way.
05:08	LazyJ	That's a project far too large to just start over.
05:08	paramat	good name
05:09	LazyJ	Hehehe... a legacy name from when it used to be under the "Wazu Clan's" umbrella.
05:09	LazyJ	Not all the big changes have been in the game itself.
05:12	LazyJ	Well, when I began planning this Watershed world, I had two basic directions to choose from.
05:13	LazyJ	Either stick with nothing but default vanilla like Solarz and "Karsthefan". Which would have avoided this current issue.
05:13	LazyJ	Or go with custom, yet established, mods. Riskier for the long-term but with much tools and nodes to create with.
05:14	LazyJ	I figured I could adapt or revive any "unknown nodes" so I opted for the more feature rich option.
05:15	paramat	default vanilla may not have escaped this bug
05:15	LazyJ	I've dealt with box cliffs and canyons before in Wazuland2. They are a feature now.
05:17	LazyJ	I was going to leave it be until earlier this evening when the Watershed world crashed Minetest.
05:18	LazyJ	I can build over, around and incorporate box cliffs and canyons... so long as the world loads. ;)-
05:19	LazyJ	Which brought me to the "Don't start the engine. No problem - no gas." that was just solved. ;)
05:20	LazyJ	Ok, done typing. I've got a mess of temporary Mintest's, worlds and other files to sort.
05:24	paramat	any idea which version of MT was the last that worked perfect for you? (ie no cliffs) or guess roughly
05:24	paramat	oh sorry didn't see your last line
05:25	paramat	O/
05:25	LazyJ	No worries. I'm still at my computer. I just can't multi-task well enough to handle chat and the mess I've made on my screens. ;)
05:26	LazyJ	Unfortunately I don't have the exact Git commit to go by, just the date that I download (I keep several Minetest versions in dated folders).
05:27	LazyJ	2014_12_10 is the version I used when the cliffs appeared. I've stayed in the same area most of the time so the cliffs glitch may have been there a long time before them.
05:29	LazyJ	It wasn't until I went to a new... island?, continent? just off the shore of were I had been building that Minetest started generating a new portion and the cliffs appeared.
05:30	paramat	thanks i'll do everything i can to fix this
05:30	LazyJ	Thanks to you and hmmmm, too. ;)
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05:32	LazyJ	Ah. It just occurred to me... in all this conversation there may have been some confusion. The Watershed world I'm have trouble with is my personal, singleplayer world, not the server "Wazuland2". That's mapgen v6.
05:32	LazyJ	So I'm not dealing with any screaming players... at least not on that subject.
05:44	hmmmm	why thanks to me?
05:44	hmmmm	in all likelyhood i'm the one who broke it for everybody
05:45	hmmmm	still I cannot comprehend how people could possibly trust their maps with bleeding-edge development versions
05:47	LazyJ	If we didn't then problems like these would not be found.
05:48	hmmmm	yes, but you could periodically back up your maps before using them on development versions...
05:48	LazyJ	That I will do with more depth.
05:48	paramat	weird thing is, if you /regened around the cliffs the new buggy terrain should expand into the old terrain. if nothing changed that is very weird
05:49	LazyJ	I messed up and copied over the backup I had of a couple days ago.
05:49	LazyJ	So now my oldest copy is just over a day old.
05:50	LazyJ	Starting with this next round of backups, I'll be keeping several, progressively older copies of this world.
05:51	LazyJ	As opposed to whatever was the last backup made.
05:51	hmmmm	you could just make a copy of it right now, and keep it for when it gets fixed so you could regen the area for real
05:52	LazyJ	Yup. Doing that.
05:57	LazyJ	Oddly, the oldest (almost 2yrs now), "long-term" world I have is where I try out mods and build ideas. Junk is scattered everywhere in that world. I did whatever, where ever, whenever, because I was going to wipe the world and start over next week.
05:58	LazyJ	Then it was the week after that, and another week,... now almost two years have gone by.
05:59	LazyJ	Heh. My sturdiest, long-term world is the one I abused and was going to throw away every other time.
06:01	paramat	LJ are you sure /regen made no change to terrain? it should now expand buggy terrain into older terrain
06:01	LazyJ	Maybe because it's such a mess, all the glitches over time have been lost in rest of the chaos.
06:01	hmmmm	paramat, were you not able to replicate the problem lazyj was having?
06:01	paramat	i'm planning to, have to learn how to update back and forth through MT history to bisect
06:02	hmmmm	well there is git bisect
06:02	hmmmm	man git-bisect
06:02	LazyJ	Those screenshots I posted are of areas that I flew into, above, under... each time using regen and waiting for the output in the terminal.
06:02	hmmmm	but you could also use git reset --hard <commit number here>
06:03	paramat	okay time for me to learn this stuff
06:05	LazyJ	Another wrinkle in the puzzle: Three Watershed worlds, using the same seed and same mods, produced cliffs in different areas.
06:05	LazyJ	Of the same world, I have three working copies.
06:06	LazyJ	One is for tinkering with mods for that particular world.
06:06	LazyJ	The second is purely for flying around to generate the terrain and produce overview maps of for planning.
06:06	LazyJ	Then the third working copy is the main world.
06:06	paramat	all 3 same version of watershed?
06:06	LazyJ	Yup.
06:07	LazyJ	Each time I update Minetest, I run these worlds and a few others to keep them updated with Minetest's changes.
06:08	LazyJ	Possibly related is another, regular occurring anomaly in mapgen v6.
06:08	LazyJ	One of my instances of Minetest is dedicated to testing and developing mods, each in their own dedicated world.
06:09	LazyJ	I use the same map seed for all of them (1234567890).
06:09	paramat	don't forget the watershed 3D map at 1/16th scale https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=8609&hilit=watershed&start=125#p150142
06:09	paramat	and https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=8609&hilit=watershed&start=125#p152224
06:10	LazyJ	I use the same static spawn point for each of these worlds so every time a new test world is started, I see the same terrain.
06:10	LazyJ	There is an area not far from the spawn point that either is solid stone covered with grass or it's hollowed out.
06:11	LazyJ	This varies from each new world to another of the same mapseed, same location.
06:11	LazyJ	That's mapgen v6.
06:12	LazyJ	I've just assumed that some random number was being used in the calculations that resulted in there being either a solid hill or not in the same spot.
06:12	paramat	well caves are random
06:12	paramat	and they carve shapes into terrain, in mgv6
06:12	hmmmm	they're based on blockseed
06:12	LazyJ	Once I get my Minetests settled in, I'll post two screenshots of the spot with the HUD coords in the display.
06:13	hmmmm	ok
06:13	paramat	caves are pseudorandom?
06:13	hmmmm	they are
06:13	hmmmm	everything is pseudorandom except for trees because they got moved out to lua and somebody botched them before that anyway
06:13	LazyJ	73 worlds using the same map seed, all mapgen v6.
06:14	hmmmm	i think they like used myrand() instead of PseudoRandom::next()
06:14	hmmmm	and then of course lsystem trees got botched as well
06:14	hmmmm	it's very important to use PseudoRandom()
06:15	paramat	i never expect trees to be identical in 2 worlds with same seed though
06:15	hmmmm	if you decide you can't use PseudoRandom() because you don't have a seed to work with in your code's scope, then maybe you should reassess the situation and figure out a way to get a blockseed first
06:15	LazyJ	afk for a bit.
06:16	paramat	O/
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06:26	Zeno`	LazyJ, (when you get back), how many threads are you using for cavegen?
06:27	LazyJ	exit
06:27	LazyJ	Did it again. Oy...
06:28	LazyJ	Zeno`, what would I look for to find out? num_emerge_threads?
06:29	Zeno`	yeah
06:29	LazyJ	Whatever is default.
06:29	Zeno`	ok :)
06:29	LazyJ	Sorry, I don't have the technical expertise to provide better info. :(
06:30	Zeno`	Nah, that's cool. I was just wondering about the random number generation
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06:58	LazyJ	Ok, got things settled and sorted.
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07:01	LazyJ	Next will be links to two screenshots of the same map seed (123456789), in the same location (coords: 52,6,128, yaw 30), from the same spawnpoint (0,0,0 - land in water), from Minetest Git commit 035e6bfc18 (posted about 3hrs ago) and minetest_game commit 99cfe73bbf (posted yesterday).
07:01	LazyJ	"cave.png" shows a small cave.
07:01	LazyJ	"no_cave.png" shows the same location without a cave.
07:02	LazyJ	These are from two separate worlds, of the same setup specs, just created moments ago.
07:02	LazyJ	https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/30991334/cave.png
07:02	LazyJ	https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/30991334/no_cave.png
07:03	LazyJ	Check the upper-left HUD to confirm coords and version.
07:03	LazyJ	The images are about 1.5mb each. Only way to capture the HUD info clear enough to read.
07:09	hmmmm	hey LazyJ, in the world that has the cave there, look at the opposite wall
07:09	hmmmm	can you take a screenshot of that?
07:10	LazyJ	Opposite wall... where exactly? In the cave? Which direction?
07:11	hmmmm	the wall opposite to the one that is visible in the screenshot
07:13	paramat	thats at x = 52, you can see a change in terrain along y = 47 (mapchunk edge)
07:13	paramat	x = 47
07:13	paramat	large cave griefing at mapchunk edge?
07:14	paramat	.. caused by order of mapchunk generation?
07:14	LazyJ	So... in the cave, facing East?
07:15	LazyJ	Clouds drift North to South. "East" would be positive x.
07:15	paramat	yes
07:15	paramat	yaw = 270
07:16	Zeno`	man, no wonder I always get lost in the game. I thought the clouds drifted randomly and tried to follow the moss on trees
07:16	Zeno`	I even have a star map that doesn't work
07:16	paramat	i expect a flat wall running along x = 47
07:19	LazyJ	coords: 41,3,139 yaw 303, inside cave, facing NE:
07:19	LazyJ	https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/30991334/cave_opposite_wall.png
07:19	hmmmm	very odd..
07:20	LazyJ	No landscaping mods installed; just default mapgen stuff.
07:20	hmmmm	i have no explanation for that. cave generation is 100% procedural
07:23	paramat	mudflow might be hiding a flat wall?
07:23	LazyJ	Aha.
07:24	LazyJ	mgv6_spflags = biomeblend, jungles, mudflow
07:24	hmmmm	that's normal..
07:24	hmmmm	for what it's worth, my own version of the map at that position at that angle has no cave
07:25	LazyJ	So I'm not completely senile yet. (phew)
07:25	gregorycu	The caves are a little... open... aren't they?
07:26	hmmmm	consistently too, might i add
07:28	hmmmm	you know i think paramat is right
07:28	hmmmm	look at how odd that piece of water is shaped
07:28	hmmmm	i think it's mudflow hiding the walled-in cave
07:28	paramat	that water pool in the cave has flowing water
07:29	paramat	its lower in the middle
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07:30	hmmmm	water_source has the waving shader applied to it as well
07:30	paramat	ah water shders are on?
07:31	paramat	yeah the slope looks too gentle to be flowing water levels
07:31	LazyJ	Checking...
07:32	paramat	there's definately a sudden change along x = 47
07:32	LazyJ	Shaders, then the three "Waving" options are checked.
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07:33	hmmmm	for what it's worth, around that area there are several rectangular-shaped mystery gaps
07:33	paramat	the dirt terrain seems slightly different in the 2 original images, i guess because mudflow
07:33	hmmmm	mudflow is deterministic
07:34	hmmmm	all this is deterministic. everything either uses perlin noise or pseudorandom
07:34	paramat	but if the caves are diffenrent mudflow will be different
07:34	hmmmm	booya
07:34	hmmmm	on my third attempt I got a caved version
07:34	paramat	lol
07:35	paramat	caves are so problematic in mgv6 seeing this along x = 47 doesnt surprise me
07:36	paramat	we're gonna move to noise-determined caves in all other mapgens
07:38	hmmmm	alrighty
07:38	LazyJ	I just looked... the map_meta_txt files are formatted differently than some of the older test worlds.
07:39	hmmmm	so I just replaced cave air with glass
07:40	hmmmm	there's simply no piece of cave there at all
07:42	hmmmm	alright got it
07:42	hmmmm	it's a large_cave
07:46	paramat	it looks like the edge of a large cave bleeding across a mapchunk border, i used to get those in my lua mapgens all the time
07:46	hmmmm	i don't get why it sometimes appears
07:47	hmmmm	half the large cave is walled in, sure, but it doesn't exist at all in most other versions
07:48	gregorycu	Is there a good way to profile mods to see how much time they use of the cpu
07:48	gregorycu	I'm making a mod, but I want to have a handle on perf from the start
07:52	paramat	yeah you can time mods, see any of my recent mods for the code
07:54	kahrl	in recent versions you can add mod_profiling = true to minetest.conf
07:54	kahrl	then run the server for a bit and type the chat command /save_mod_profile
07:54	gregorycu	Thanks mate
07:55	kahrl	detailed_profiling = true if you want more details
07:57	paramat	okay i ran identical watershed versions with identical seeds, one in latest git, one in a months-old MT, can confirm similar-but-different terrains
07:57	gregorycu	Apparently an invalid command
07:57	hmmmm	it's simply a boundary condition large cave messup
07:58	hmmmm	there's no reason to be worried i think
07:58	gregorycu	I have 4.10
07:58	paramat	yeah different issue to LJ's
07:58	hmmmm	??
07:58	gregorycu	I'll dig around
08:00	paramat	old MT version https://cdn.mediacru.sh/D/D4RoEZLzMHLh.png
08:00	paramat	latest git https://cdn.mediacru.sh/h/hnQFCLE8ixwf.png
08:00	paramat	biomes and trees very similar, terrain different
08:01	hmmmm	what is that
08:01	hmmmm	v5?
08:01	paramat	watershed
08:02	hmmmm	something obviously screwed up...
08:02	hmmmm	bisect time?
08:03	paramat	yep, in the next few days
08:03	paramat	latest git seems spikier, like persist increased
08:04	paramat	the fissures are very similar too
08:05	paramat	i look forward to relaxing with some lua modding after 0.4.11 is out `=P
08:05	LazyJ	So, if I understand it correctly, "bisecting" means to start with an old version of Minetest, create a world, then switch to the newest version of Minetest, recreate that world with the same specs, and keep working through the Minetest commits till there is a match, then backup one to identify the commit that's affecting the change?
08:06	Everdras	LazyJ: bisecting means doing a binary search through commits to find the defect
08:06	hmmmm	the point of it is to find the commit that's creating the problem, yes, but you don't keep trying each one
08:06	Everdras	so you start with one that's bad, and one that's good
08:07	paramat	'yeah different issue to LJ's' sorry both issues are LJ's ... it's 8am here
08:07	Everdras	it knows the commit that introduced it is in between
08:07	LazyJ	12am here and the coffee isn't doing it for me anymore.
08:07	Everdras	so it goes halfway: is it still good? go nearer to the present. is it bad now? go further back
08:07	Everdras	repeat till you're at the naughty commit
08:08	Zeno`	hey, that sounds like a binary search!
08:08	Zeno`	the things people think of
08:08	Everdras	which is why I said...
08:08	Zeno`	'tis amazing
08:08	LazyJ	How far back to start with, paramat?
08:08	Everdras	"bisecting means doing a bsearch through commits"
08:08	Everdras	any good commit works
08:09	LazyJ	Trouble is, at this point, we aren't sure how old this problem is, no idea what was the last good commit.
08:09	paramat	erm i would start with a version just before hmmmmm's recent batch of commits, so a week or 2 ago
08:09	Everdras	guess you could binary search for that
08:10	Everdras	start halfway... is it broken? no, go into the future, yes, go into the past
08:10	hmmmm	they should take commit privs away from me
08:10	hmmmm	i did horrible things with the codebase the past 2-3 days
08:10	paramat	nah good things, just a lot of stuff so a problem is not unexpected
08:11	Everdras	"even perfect code has bugs"
08:15	paramat	my guess is something to do with 3D noise, something that increases persistence
08:16	gregorycu	Is there a list of upcoming enhancements?
08:19	paramat	time to sleep on it ..
08:20	LazyJ	G'night and thanks ;)
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08:26	LazyJ	Zeno`, I've got a couple lines of core dumps for you, if they make any sense.
08:26	LazyJ	~/scripts/lazyj.sh: line 2: 21579 Segmentation fault (core dumped) ~/Minetest/Minetest_game_stuff/01_minetest/lazyj/bin/./minetest --logfile ''
08:27	LazyJ	Then from yesterday:
08:27	LazyJ	* Error in `~/Minetest/Minetest_game_stuff/01_minetest/lazyj/bin/./minetest': double free or corruption (!prev): 0x0000000002cec570 *
08:27	LazyJ	~/scripts/lazyj.sh: line 2: 22470 Aborted (core dumped) ~/Minetest/Minetest_game_stuff/01_minetest/lazyj/bin/./minetest --logfile ''
08:29	LazyJ	If I allowed Minetest to create the debug.txt file, would it provide any useful info in this case?
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09:31	Zeno`	ahh, the Krock is here
09:31	Krock	omg. where?
09:31	Zeno`	the one blaming me for stuff I have nothing to do with :P~~~
09:31	Zeno`	there!
09:31	Zeno`	he spoketh!
09:31	Zeno`	I heard the Krock utter words!
09:32	Zeno`	heh
09:32	Krock	Ok. My guess for the 'bad commit' was wrong then.
09:33	* Zeno`	forgives you
09:33	Zeno`	I bet you feel a lot better now. lmao
09:34	Krock	same as today morning after eating some braid with cheese
09:36	Zeno`	what's that
09:37	Krock	http://www.baeckerei-bohnenblust.ch/pictures/8b/ghrmq2qqrotvlfpvikf3szro9ryl1w/zopf-428.jpg
09:38	Zeno`	oh. they look awesome
09:39	Krock	srsly, you've never had that ... food?
09:39	Krock	such tasty
09:40	Zeno`	yes we have similar
09:45		jin_xi joined #minetest
09:49	* Krock	wonders why the craftive-icon has a black background
09:49	* Krock	wants to say creative.
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09:55	Wuzzy	Hi, how do I avoid making items disappear automatically?
09:56	Wuzzy	(dropped items, of course)
09:56	Krock	They shouldn't disappear at all
09:57	Wuzzy	even after 10 min?
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09:58	Wuzzy	I heard of a setting called â€œitem_entity_ttlâ€ but I am not sure if this still works
09:58	LazyJ	# Time in seconds for item entity to live. Default value: 900s
09:58	LazyJ	# Setting it to -1 disables the feature
09:59	LazyJ	Default #item_entity_ttl = 900
09:59	LazyJ	Which it said in the first line. (facepalms)
09:59	Wuzzy	not in my files
10:00	Wuzzy	I wonder if it is still active in current dev versions
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10:00	LazyJ	minetest.conf.example of 2014_12_12 has it at line 288.
10:01	Wuzzy	that doesnt mean the setting still works ;)
10:01	PenguinDad	Wuzzy: the setting still works
10:01	Wuzzy	how do you know?
10:01	LazyJ	It works in my singleplayer worlds.
10:01	Wuzzy	Did you test it?
10:01	Wuzzy	Does -1 also work?
10:01	Wuzzy	for you
10:02	LazyJ	I have mine set for 0 (instant delete).
10:02	LazyJ	I play in creative-mode so I don't need the litter.
10:02	Wuzzy	I have a problem with my tutorial world.
10:02	Wuzzy	In dev versions of Minetest, items do not appear in the world anymore
10:02	Wuzzy	of Tutorial World
10:03	Wuzzy	in 0.4.10, items are there
10:03	Wuzzy	but if I start Tutorial world in dev, items are not there :(
10:03	Wuzzy	Oh, and I set item_entity_ttl to -1 in minetest.conf of game
10:03	Wuzzy	I am very very puzzled about this
10:03	Wuzzy	sadly, this breaks the tutorial
10:04	Krock	minetest.setting_set("item_entity_ttl", "-1");
10:04	LazyJ	Is the tutorial strictly vanilla?
10:04	Wuzzy	I also have to say, the items there are very â€œoldâ€, a lot more than just 15 minutes for sure
10:05	Wuzzy	No, it uses its own subgame I wrote.
10:05	Amaz	Do you have that setting in your normal minetest.conf?
10:05	Wuzzy	Krock: Why should I do this? Whatâ€™s the point of minetest.conf in subgame then?
10:05	Wuzzy	No, in minetest.conf in subgame folder.
10:06	Krock	Oh. does that file actualy get read by th engine?
10:06	Amaz	So that setting does not exist at all in your normal minetest.conf?
10:06	Wuzzy	No, of course not. I donâ€™t want to have it globally for all worlds.
10:06	Wuzzy	Also, it would make it non-distributable.
10:06	Amaz	Okay.
10:07	Wuzzy	The strange thing is, Tutorial World items are there in 0.4.10, but are gone in dev :(
10:07	Amaz	Just checking because if you had it with a different value in the global minetest.conf, it would overwrite the game's minetest.conf.
10:08	PenguinDad	Wuzzy: afaik some change in latest dev broke the reading of minetest.conf in the game's folder
10:08	Wuzzy	I am not the only one experiencing the problem. In fact, c55 reported it.
10:08	Wuzzy	-_- lol
10:08	Wuzzy	That would explain it.
10:08	Wuzzy	Can you gimme link to issue?
10:08	Wuzzy	weit
10:08	Wuzzy	I have to check it
10:08	PenguinDad	There's no issue yet
10:09	Wuzzy	Hmm, in minetest.conf I can just store any arbitrary key-value thing, right?
10:09	Krock	yeah
10:09	Wuzzy	So I could type in â€œsome_crap = 34â€ and read it afterwards by scritps and stuff, right?
10:09	PenguinDad	yes
10:09	Wuzzy	oh great, then I can test if the minetest.conf feature is broken for me.
10:09	Krock	minetest.setting_get("some_crap") -> 34
10:10	Wuzzy	or just /set some_crap in console ;)
10:11	Krock	* /set -n some_crap xyz
10:11	Wuzzy	ugh, I just want to read it
10:13	Wuzzy	Yes, itâ€™s true.
10:13	Wuzzy	Any setting I set in subgameâ€™s minetest.conf are not set :O
10:13	* PenguinDad	jumps on the hype train
10:13	Wuzzy	omg why is there no issue for this bug yet
10:13	Wuzzy	I guess I better report it lol
10:13	Wuzzy	hmm wait, better I update my source before that
10:14	Wuzzy	Thanks, people for your help. :)
10:14	Krock	!c 900 / 60
10:14	MinetestBot	15.0
10:14	Krock	!c 30 * 60
10:14	MinetestBot	1800
10:17	Zeno`	I wanted to print ZERO and my program prints ZENO
10:17	Zeno`	this is not good
10:17	Krock	xD
10:17	* Zeno`	fears for his sanity
10:18	PenguinDad	Zeno`: did you start with it --disable-unittests? :P
10:18	jin_xi	Zeno, crash minetestbot with a division!
10:19	Wuzzy	!c 0/0
10:19	MinetestBot	ZeroDivisionError: division by zero
10:19	Wuzzy	nice try
10:19	Wuzzy	What is 10 divided by Zeno?
10:19	jin_xi	11
10:19	Krock	!c 10 / Zeno
10:19	MinetestBot	NameError: name 'Zeno' is not defined
10:20	Krock	Zeno`, who are you?
10:20	PenguinDad	!c 42 / 0
10:20	MinetestBot	ZeroDivisionError: division by zero
10:20	PenguinDad	:(
10:20	Krock	but 0 / 0 should result in "Not defined"
10:20	Wuzzy	Zeno = 0.90909090909090â€¦
10:21	Krock	!c (1010) / (99)
10:21	MinetestBot	1.2345679012345678
10:21	Zeno`	Zeno`, it's ok, you're probably just tired
10:21	Zeno`	Thanks Zenie
10:23	Zeno`	!c 1 / 10 * 3
10:23	MinetestBot	0.30000000000000004
10:23	Zeno`	!c 1 / (10 * 3)
10:23	MinetestBot	0.03333333333333333
10:23		Pest joined #minetest
10:23	Zeno`	!c 1 / (10 / 3)
10:23	MinetestBot	0.3
10:23	Zeno`	amazing
10:24		stakewinner00 joined #minetest
10:24	Zeno`	!c 1 / 10 * 3
10:24	MinetestBot	0.30000000000000004
10:24	Zeno`	!c 3 * 1 / 10
10:24	MinetestBot	0.3
10:24	Wuzzy	hahaha
10:24	Zeno`	the bot is crazy
10:24	PenguinDad	D:
10:24	Wuzzy	maybe it runs on Intel XD
10:26	Zeno`	what can we do?!
10:26	Zeno`	I propose a...
10:26	Zeno`	I don't know what do to!
10:26	PenguinDad	Listen to good music?!
10:26	Zeno`	ok
10:27	Zeno`	!1==1
10:27	Zeno`	!c 1==1
10:27	MinetestBot	True
10:27	Zeno`	TRUE!
10:27	Zeno`	!c 10 * 3 / 4 + 1 == 1 + 3 * 10 / 4
10:27	MinetestBot	True
10:27	Zeno`	TRUE!
10:27	PenguinDad	!c 1>2==False
10:27	MinetestBot	False
10:27	PenguinDad	D:
10:27	Zeno`	it's broken!
10:28	Amaz	!c 1!=2
10:28	MinetestBot	True
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10:28	PenguinDad	!c (1>2)==False
10:28	MinetestBot	True
10:28	PenguinDad	:D
10:29	Krock	ehm. why can't I override builtin:item anymore?
10:29	Jordach	always blame ShadowNinja if something edits builtin
10:29	Zeno`	!c 31/41 == 1/313
10:29	MinetestBot	False
10:30	Zeno`	!c 31/41 == 1/413
10:30	MinetestBot	False
10:30	Zeno`	GASP
10:31	PenguinDad	!c 1/41 - 1/413
10:31	MinetestBot	SyntaxError: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
10:31		Trustable joined #minetest
10:31	PenguinDad	!c 31/41 - 1/413
10:31	MinetestBot	-1.3877787807814457e-17
10:33	Zeno`	O.O
10:33	Krock	it calculates like (31)/41 - (1/41)3
10:34	Krock	but both should result in the same thing..
10:34	Krock	!c (31)/41 == (1/41)3
10:34	MinetestBot	False
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10:35	Zeno`	!c 1000 + 0100 + 0010 + 0001
10:35	MinetestBot	SyntaxError: invalid token (<string>, line 1)
10:35	Zeno`	broken
10:35	Zeno`	!c (1000 + 0100 + 0010 + 0001)
10:35	MinetestBot	SyntaxError: invalid token (<string>, line 1)
10:35	Krock	!c 1000+ 100 + 10+1
10:35	MinetestBot	1111
10:36	Zeno`	we've upset it
10:36	PenguinDad	*her
10:36	Zeno`	her*
10:37	Zeno`	http://codepad.org/AZhF7Cik
10:37	Zeno`	codepad broken as well :(
10:37	Zeno`	has there been a sun flare?
10:38	Krock	Zeno`, you're sure it's not counted as 0b0010 ?
10:39	Krock	!c 2 + 4 + 8 - 1 + 1000
10:39	MinetestBot	1013
10:39	Zeno`	-1 ?
10:40	Zeno`	0b1kan0b?
10:40	Krock	not sure why I did -1
10:40	Zeno`	codepad is obviously broken
10:41		GeHa joined #minetest
10:41	Zeno`	or C
10:41	Zeno`	one of the two
10:41		Trustable joined #minetest
10:41	PenguinDad	or both :P
10:42		Trustable joined #minetest
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10:43	Zeno`	PenguinDad, I have made a terrible discovery
10:43	Zeno`	python -c "print 1000 + 0100 + 0010 + 0001"
10:43	Zeno`	1073?!
10:44	* Zeno`	looks for his straight jacket
10:44	PenguinDad	Zeno`: lua says it's 1111
10:44	Zeno`	Lua is broken
10:44	Zeno`	lol
10:45	Krock	Zeno`, Visual C++ returns 1073 too
10:46	Zeno`	:-o
10:46	Zeno`	so does Perl!
10:46	jin_xi	its octal with leading 0
10:46	Zeno`	jin_xi, why do you ruin my fun? :(
10:46	* Zeno`	gets grumpy
10:46	jin_xi	Muahahahah now go fix that leak
10:46	Zeno`	hehehe
10:47	* PenguinDad	leaks a few globals :>
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10:49	Zeno`	leak?
10:49	Zeno`	what leak? >.>
10:49	Zeno`	that's CACHE
10:50	Zeno`	I don't think I should have had those beers
10:51	Zeno`	that leak goes back a loooong way btw
10:51	Zeno`	I tried to bisect but gave up because it was taking so long
10:51	* Krock	loves headers like "typedef unsigned char u8;"
10:51	Krock	much easier to type
10:51	Zeno`	pity char is not necessarily 8 bits
10:52	Krock	damn those exceptions
10:52	jin_xi	ugh its wrong anyway. should be just chars and signed chars. same with int. fuck this shite
10:52	Zeno`	that's what I say as well
10:53	Zeno`	well... whether or not char is signed or unsigned is implementation defined
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10:56	Zeno`	and char on one of my CPUs has 12 bits
10:56	Zeno`	kind of annoying
10:57	PenguinDad	Zeno`: why not 16 bits?
10:57	Zeno`	PenguinDad, I guess it likes 12
10:57	PenguinDad	But I like powers of two
10:57	Zeno`	there are a lot of 12-bit DSPs
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11:06	Zeno`	ranges in voxels are strange
11:07	Zeno`	I think they depend on orientation :/
11:08	Zeno`	Wuzzy, do you still have your bug?
11:09	Wuzzy	I have not tested in new version yet
11:10	Zeno`	ok
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11:14	CWz	so Zeno` how much of a performance boost do you predict after your server optimizations
11:14	Zeno`	not much
11:14	Zeno`	who told you I was looking at the server? :)
11:15	PenguinDad	A performance boost of about 2^512% :P
11:15	Zeno`	lol
11:15	Zeno`	yes, as I said: not much
11:15	Zeno`	there bottlenecks I've mostly addressed when concentrating on the client
11:15		gregorycu joined #minetest
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11:17	Zeno`	there is something very strange about voxels
11:18	Zeno`	VoxelAreas*
11:18	Krock	Whoa Brain has crashed! Restart now?
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11:24	Zeno`	Not the Whoa Brain!
11:25	Zeno`	wait, what's the Whoa Brain?
11:25		Trustable joined #minetest
11:26	PenguinDad	Whoa Google Chrome!
11:26	PenguinDad	lol
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11:58	MinetestBot	[git] PilzAdam -> minetest/minetest_game: Fix typo in furnace.lua 854415f http://git.io/Oox5Cg (2014-12-13T12:52:47+01:00)
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12:05	MinetestBot	[git] PilzAdam -> minetest/minetest: Update german translation ce4ed65 http://git.io/GP2byw (2014-12-13T13:00:11+01:00)
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12:07	hisforeverkid	need a past url please?
12:07	hisforeverkid	pasre
12:08	hisforeverkid	wish I could type lol
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12:29	hisforeverkid	dose anybody have a url for paste ?
12:30	ElectronLibre	http://pastie.org <= This one for example?
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13:00	MinetestBot	[git] Zeno- -> minetest/minetest: Provide more info if a subgame is not valid/found a145a6a http://git.io/FFpxNQ (2014-12-13T22:58:34+10:00)
13:02	MinetestBot	[git] Zeno- -> minetest/minetest: Provide more info if a subgame is not valid/found 784a452 http://git.io/T_llMg (2014-12-13T23:01:16+10:00)
13:06	Zeno`	yes, yes
13:10	Amaz	MinetestBot, you may like Zeno` but is it really necessary to tell us about his commit twice? ;)
13:29	MinetestBot	Amaz: yes, it is, because they are actually different commits (look at the IDs)
13:29	Amaz	Opps.
13:30	Amaz	My apologises then MinetestBot!
13:30	sfan5	Release Candidate builds for 0.4.11 are out: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=10742
13:31	Amaz	Shows what skim reading does ;P
13:31	Amaz	So is there a feature freeze now?
13:32	PenguinDad	Amaz: just look at the topic in the dev channel :P
13:32	Amaz	I could, but there is the factor of laziness :P
13:33	Amaz	I mean, I would have to type /topic !
13:33	Amaz	Hang on, I just did it! ;)
13:33	PenguinDad	"FEATURE FREEZE FOR 0.4.11 IN EFFECT! \| Minetest core development and maintenance..."
13:33	hisforeverkid	how can I correct this spanning errors http://pastie.org/9778103?
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14:19	MinetestBot	[git] Zeno- -> minetest/minetest: Fix misleading error when exiting the client from the main menu b5e11e0 http://git.io/U5F3CQ (2014-12-14T00:07:44+10:00)
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14:27	blaze	blais3: hi
14:28		proller joined #minetest
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14:53	Jordach	PenguinDad, Savant's new album be out
14:53		Tuxedo[Qyou] joined #minetest
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14:58	PenguinDad	Jordach: I know dat
15:02		ElectronLibre_ joined #minetest
15:04	Zeno`	nerrrrrrrrrrrr I know dat too :p
15:05		eeeeeta joined #minetest
15:05	Zeno`	whois is Savant?
15:05	catninja	Happy lucia everyone!
15:05	PenguinDad	Take my hand we'll go to zion sings
15:06	LazyJ	Savant is the number before ate. :0)
15:06	LazyJ	idk either, I haven't kept up kids music.
15:07	ElectronLibre	catninja: Did you mean light's day?
15:08	catninja	ElectronLibre: no http://vimeo.com/55253944 lucia day
15:10	ElectronLibre	That's what I thought. It's the day of holy light's (I don't know how to say it in english in french it's "Saintes LumiÃ¨res"). (It's the holy day for everyone how have a name like Lucy, Aurore, everything light-related)
15:11	PenguinDad	Holy day for lighz bulbs :D
15:11	PenguinDad	*light
15:11	catninja	ElectronLibre: oh cool!
15:12	* ElectronLibre	thinks of the one which is working since 1901 in a fire station ._.
15:12	catninja	soon its midwintersnight too, darkest day of the year! the day of sacrificing animals and such to get the sun back
15:13	catninja	20th of december, 4h 16min of sunlight here
15:13	ElectronLibre	4h of sunlight in Sweden.. Wow.. ._.
15:15	PenguinDad	LazyJ, Zeno`: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phhPSwFdgS8&list=UU5ur2L6Zu4oCShmtFw9UTfQ
15:16	catninja	were still south of the polar circle, when my mother was young grandpa used to sit and watch the sun go down for the last time in 3weeks with pain in his eyes
15:16	LazyJ	"Arrival" - Ok, thanks, PenguinDad ;)
15:16	Zeno`	sounds like a tracker track
15:17	LazyJ	Heh. I was thinking some of tunes from the video games I wasted all my quarters on.
15:17	Zeno`	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9zmLQGBTIw
15:18	ElectronLibre	Catninja: It must be beautiful -
15:18	LazyJ	But it's not as harsh sounding as I was expecting.
15:19	LazyJ	Ahh.. now that tune brings back memories. That and the theme song to Top Gun where the local radio station's favorites.
15:20		nore joined #minetest
15:20	catninja	ElectronLibre: it is, the sami land is beautiful, sometimes reindeers wanders off into town and there is crazy aurora borealis since there is no light to disturb the sight
15:24	catninja	omg an aurora borealismod would be sooo coool for minetest *____
15:24	catninja	*
15:25	* ElectronLibre	imagines the scene -
15:26	Zeno`	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlfYF79ENf8
15:27	catninja	Zeno`: you are ruining the mood x)
15:27	Zeno`	sowwy :(
15:27	Zeno`	what mood?
15:27	catninja	wintery dream mood
15:28	Zeno`	Oh, sorry, I was going back to The Scene
15:28	Zeno`	the scene these days is not what it used to be ;(
15:28	catninja	I think both canadians and swedes would be happy about a reindeer, moose and auroramod. that would be golden.
15:29	catninja	realistic reindeers that do not move when you walk into them
15:29	catninja	stupid reindeers mutters
15:29	LazyJ	Was it really 1994!? (groan) When did yesterday become 20yrs?
15:29	Zeno`	how about PC speaker music?
15:29	Zeno`	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wu5zd5fCaPA
15:30	Zeno`	who needs a sound card
15:31	LazyJ	Oh, joys. The little paper speakers of "beep, beep, beep" (you installed the ribbons or some DIP switch wrong).
15:31	catninja	I do not think I'm old enough for this discussion
15:31	Zeno`	LazyJ, I even made one of my old floppy disks play music (sounded terrible though)
15:32	Zeno`	catninja, the PC speaker is supposed to beep and nothing else
15:32	LazyJ	The 3.5 floppies or the 5.25 real floppies?
15:32	Zeno`	and it is beeping... just very fast ;)
15:32	Zeno`	3.5 floppy drive
15:32	exio4	I remember a program I made in turbopascal!
15:33	Zeno`	LazyJ, the REAL floppies are 8"
15:33	ElectronLibre	Oh my.. Back in the 80-90's!
15:33	exio4	that did that, I found a procedure that did the tricks for the beeps
15:33	exio4	and I then made "music" with it & sleep :D
15:33	catninja	Zeno`: backs away slowly
15:33	Zeno`	exio4, yeah. We made do with what we had :)
15:34	exio4	I wish I didn't lose my "super-engine" in turbopascal+vga graphics
15:34	exio4	I remember writing a "nearly-bruteforce" approach for drawing lines
15:34	exio4	(because I didn't have the math skills for doing it properly)
15:35	exio4	I made it draw cubes, most of the stuff was hardcoded and obviously only wireframe, but it was like a work of 3-4 weeks til I got something that worked! it was too slow for anything sane though
15:35	exio4	;_; I wish I was a child again
15:36	exio4	I don't remember the approach I used, I remember I did some dirty tricks for converting things to "my own way to measure angles" and then do magic with that :P
15:36	Zeno`	hehe ;)
15:36	exio4	iirc I used an scale from 1 to 16 or 8, so it wasn't _that_ smooth
15:37	exio4	(the approach = how I did it, I remember the high-level details)
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15:37	exio4	I should install W98 again and turbopascal again!
15:37	Zeno`	you should
15:37	Zeno`	why not?!
15:38	exio4	because I am lazy!
15:38	exio4	if I wasn't a lazy ass I would have done a lot more for other people, and even minetest!
15:41	Zeno`	hehehe
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15:52	PenguinDad	ChanServ: come back soon! :(
15:53		Wayward_One joined #minetest
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15:56	shadowzone	PenguinDad, you got that too?
15:57		crazyR joined #minetest
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15:57	PenguinDad	shadowzone: WALLOPS
15:57	shadowzone	Lol
15:59	ElectronLibre	It's the precise moment we musn't all be disconnected of the channel :Â°...
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16:01	shadowzone	atleast we have ShadowBot and MinetestBot
16:03	Krock	o.o CHanServ is gone
16:03	shadowzone	YEs
16:03	shadowzone	just died
16:04	PenguinDad	Krock: even ChanServ needs a break :D
16:04	Krock	PenguinDad, I see
16:05	* PenguinDad	is a bit sad because he switches to windows on monday
16:05	shadowzone	Why not dual boot?
16:05	ElectronLibre	Oh poor you :'(
16:05	* Krock	is a bit happy because he doesn't need to switch to windows
16:05	PenguinDad	shadowzone: I might do that sometime later
16:05	shadowzone	Wincrap
16:06	* Krock	fills shadowzone with Windoze
16:06	shadowzone	Krock, what fer?
16:06	* PenguinDad	drinks some Winbooze
16:08	* ElectronLibre	is a bit sad because he has to move about a thousand of global variables to local variables for some servers --'
16:08		kilbith left #minetest
16:09	Krock	ElectronLibre, just put a "--[[" blah blah "]]" around everything. problem solved.
16:10	ElectronLibre	But I'm gonna get a lot of these purple Unkown nodes, and the servers' owners' won't be happy.. :Â°
16:11	Krock	:/
16:11	ElectronLibre	I've got enough time to move them, it's just gonna take at least 2 hours..
16:23		ChanServ joined #minetest
16:24	* PenguinDad	hugs ChanServ
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16:24	ElectronLibre	He is back :3
16:27	shadowzone	CHANSERV!
16:27	PenguinDad	ElectronLibre: *she
16:27	ElectronLibre	Sorry.
16:28	PenguinDad	cause all bots are female
16:28	ElectronLibre	Yes, I've just remembered.
16:30	Calinou	bots don't have a gender, they don't think
16:31		Wayward_One joined #minetest
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16:37	exio4	what do you think they are Calinou
16:37	exio4	just programs?
16:37	exio4	no, they are living things!
16:37	Calinou	they are bots, theyâ€¦ obey (at best)
16:37	exio4	what if you want to marry with a bot? is that illegal?
16:37	Krock	^
16:37	Calinou	yes
16:38	Krock	Fritigern, happy b-day!
16:38	Zeno`	!c 3/1/4 == 3/4/1
16:38	MinetestBot	True
16:38	ElectronLibre	It's just useless.
16:38	Zeno`	!c 3/10/4 == 3/(4/10)
16:38	MinetestBot	False
16:38	Zeno`	!c 3/4/10 == 3/(4/10)
16:38	MinetestBot	False
16:38	exio4	that is discrimination Calinou
16:38	Krock	!c 27**(1/3)
16:38	MinetestBot	3.0
16:39	Zeno`	!c 5/611 == 5/(611)
16:39	MinetestBot	False
16:39	Zeno`	broken
16:39	Zeno`	beyond hope
16:39	shadowzone	no ChanServ is a male
16:39	shadowzone	MinetestBot and ShadowBot are female
16:39	exio4	you wish
16:40	Krock	Zeno`, it's not broken since 5/6 * 11 is not 5/66
16:40	Zeno`	oh yeah!
16:40	Zeno`	!c 5/611 == 5/(116)
16:40	MinetestBot	False
16:40	Zeno`	still broken :(
16:40	Krock	still not broken. same thing again
16:41	ElectronLibre	!c (5/6)11 = 5/611
16:41	MinetestBot	SyntaxError: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
16:41	ElectronLibre	!c (5/6)11 == 5/611
16:41	MinetestBot	True
16:41	ElectronLibre	^ Not broken.
16:41	Zeno`	!c 5/611 == 115/6
16:41	MinetestBot	False
16:41	Krock	!c 511/6 == 5(11/6)
16:41	MinetestBot	True
16:41	Krock	^not broken
16:41	Zeno`	!c 5/611 == 115/6
16:41	MinetestBot	False
16:41	Zeno`	broken
16:42	Krock	Zeno`, it calculates from left to right, so it's correct
16:42	Zeno`	huh?
16:42	Zeno`	!c 1/104 == 41/10
16:42	MinetestBot	True
16:42	Krock	5/66 != 55/6
16:42	ElectronLibre	Operators' proprities.
16:42	Zeno`	!c 1/114 == 41/11
16:42	MinetestBot	True
16:43	Krock	yes, that's correct
16:43	ElectronLibre	(I learnt that when I was 7)
16:43	Zeno`	!c 34/2 == 3/24
16:43	MinetestBot	True
16:43	Zeno`	it works!
16:43	Zeno`	amazing!
16:43	Krock	yomg wow
16:43	Krock	now verify it with ShadowBot's results
16:43	Zeno`	!c 3/1/4 == 3/4/1
16:43	MinetestBot	...
16:44	Krock	^ xD
16:44	Krock	it would be true btw
16:44	Zeno`	!c 3/43 == 33/4
16:44	MinetestBot	...
16:44	Zeno`	it broken again
16:44	Krock	##minetestbot
16:44	ElectronLibre	She's just annoyed.
16:45	Zeno`	put her back
16:45	Zeno`	!c 3/143 == 33/14
16:45	MinetestBot	False
16:45	Zeno`	see?
16:45	Zeno`	broken
16:46	Krock	yes, now it is
16:46	Krock	you broke it!
16:46	Zeno`	I sowwy :(
16:46	Krock	pls2repair Zeno`!
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16:48	Zeno`	!c 1/3 * 1/2 == 1/2 * 1/3
16:48	MinetestBot	True
16:48	Zeno`	fixed!
16:49	Zeno`	!c 5/16 * 1/2 == 1/2 * 5/16
16:49	MinetestBot	True
16:49	Zeno`	yep, she's as good as new
16:50	Krock	ShadowBot: calc 2/45 == 52/4
16:50	ShadowBot	Krock: 1
16:50	Krock	<3 ShadowBot
16:50	ShadowBot	04â™¥ Krock.
16:50	ElectronLibre	How can she send a heart? ._.
16:50	Sokomine	hi. has anyone got got any simple, small houses at hand for a test? need to be schematics
16:50	Krock	ElectronLibre, ASCII codes
16:50	ElectronLibre	Oh.
16:51	Krock	Sokomine, how 'bout thosefrom mg_villages? :3
16:51	Zeno`	!c 3/2 == 1 / (2/3)
16:51	MinetestBot	...
16:51	Zeno`	she's broken again
16:51	shadowzone	so MinetestBot is broken and ShadowBot is working just fine?
16:51	Sokomine	Krock: i've added an option so that people can add their own villages easily. now i need something to demonstrate that feature
16:52	Sokomine	after all this is a game where people are supposed to build. it'd be very boring if there's no way to add own structures easily
16:52	Krock	Sokomine, http://nimg.pf-control.de/MTstuff/modSearch.php?q=house #2
16:52	Krock	aarg
16:52	Krock	it doesn't have schematics
16:53	Zeno`	!c 5/5 + 1/8 == 1/8 + 4/4
16:53	MinetestBot	True
16:53	Sokomine	Krock: ah, good idea. hm, yes, currently mg_villages only supports recent worldedit, and it likes .mts far more
16:54	Krock	Sokomine, okay.. how about this one? https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=6221 Haven't tested it
16:55	PenguinDad	<3 ShadowBot
16:55	ShadowBot	04â™¥ PenguinDad.
16:55	Sokomine	towntest may be suitable
17:01	Zeno`	!c 1/107.1 == 7.11/10
17:01	MinetestBot	True
17:02		hmmmm joined #minetest
17:04	Zeno`	!c 1.1/3.04.1 == 4.11.1/3.0
17:04	MinetestBot	False
17:04	Zeno`	she's broken again!
17:05	Zeno`	maybe we should put her to sleep?
17:06	PenguinDad	!c math.e<3<math.pi
17:06	MinetestBot	True
17:06	PenguinDad	D:
17:06	Zeno`	D:
17:08	Zeno`	!c 2.718 / 3.14 * 3/10 == 3/10 * 2.718/3.14
17:08	MinetestBot	...
17:08	Zeno`	D:
17:08	Zeno`	maybe she needs parenthesis
17:09	Zeno`	!c (2.718/3.14 * 3.0/10) == (3.0/10 * 2.718/3.14)
17:09	MinetestBot	...
17:09	Zeno`	nope
17:09	Zeno`	!c (2.718/3.14 * 3.0/10) - (3.0/10 * 2.718/3.14)
17:09	MinetestBot	0.0
17:09	Zeno`	O.O
17:10	Zeno`	lol, night all ;)
17:13		GrimKriegor joined #minetest
17:14	crazyR	hi everyone :D
17:14	Zeno`	(btw, I think she likes me)
17:14		The_Loko joined #minetest
17:17	Krock	hi crazyR
17:25	Krock	damn. - Erroneous Nickname (/help)
17:26	\er	heh
17:28	\WINNT\System32	delete me!
17:28	kaeza	greetings
17:29	Krock	kaeza, you're outdated. Windows 2k/4
17:29	\wat	kaeza: I don't understand
17:29	\wat	:P
17:29	Krock	\wat, wat?
17:29	\wat	Krock: Krock?
17:30	Krock	sfan5, a MSVC build from today, I'm not sure if it's a release candidate :3 https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=164250#p164250
17:31	Krock	\wat, it must be like: Krock, \Krock?
17:32	\wat	\\\z_last_name: \\z_last_name?
17:32	\\\z_last_name	\wat: wat?
17:32	ElectronLibre	What the shell are you both doing? ._.
17:32	Krock	sheling 'round
17:32	\wat	ElectronLibre: I've got no flippin' idea
17:34	ElectronLibre	I see... ._.
17:35	* ElectronLibre	goes away, otherwise he could be infected o_o
17:35		ElectronLibre left #minetest
17:36	kaeza	too many nicks grouped to my account
17:37	kaeza	-NickServ- Nicks: kaeza kaeza1 kaeza\|jEdit diemartin k-mt ZXSpectrum11 the_real_kaeza blaaaaargh ZenithRAM VRock snaaaaake spaaaaace \WINNT\System32
17:37	Krock	duh. a lag of 10s at NickServ
17:38	Krock	!ping
17:38	Krock	ShadowBot: ping
17:38	ShadowBot	pong
17:40	kaeza	looks like freenode is derping
17:40	\wat	I only have these Nicks: PenguinDad GhostDoge DogePony
17:41	Krock	I only have Krock.
17:49	hmmmm	hey guys
17:49	hmmmm	any more word on the different perlin noise output?
17:50	Krock	diffrent?
17:50	hmmmm	yeah, see last night's discussion
17:50	hmmmm	i've been thinking it might be a good idea to write a test suite for the lua apis which can be run as part of an optional set of unit tests... any volunteers?
17:53	Krock	search it in the logs
17:53	Krock	ad. noise as textures?
17:53	Krock	*ah
17:57	DogePony	Noise textures == Audible textures :P
17:58	hmmmm	krock, no.
17:59	hmmmm	sometime in between my recent commit rampage i broke perlin noise
18:01	Krock	ack
18:02	Krock	indeed, it's not the same perlin as before. the map gets ugly borders
18:02	Krock	haven't noticed that since I keep using dummy for testing reasons
18:03	hmmmm	what mapgen are you using
18:03	Krock	v6
18:04	Krock	why the hell..
18:06	Krock	hmmmm, are the old noise settings converted to new?
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18:18	Krock	hmmmm, 141211 is bad and 141209 is the latest know good
18:18	Krock	it happened in those 3 days
18:18	hmmmm	are those dates?
18:18	Krock	2014-12-11 YYYY-MM-DD
18:19	hmmmm	okay, that's not obvious though...
18:19	Krock	with my CPU I can't help more than that
18:20	Krock	tested 7 diffrent builds and the issue appeared late
18:20	* DogePony	throws a non-existant bunch of money at Krock
18:20	* Krock	catches the money and his hand turns non-existant
18:21	hmmmm	well, I'm not finding the problem
18:23		jojoa1997 joined #minetest
18:23	hmmmm	http://imgur.com/8x7sf8x,CJPIOsI,jGJgYaF
18:23	hmmmm	this goes as far back as november 15th
18:24	hmmmm	this is mapgen v6, with seed = 123456789
18:25	VanessaE	I do spot a slight difference in the terrain.
18:25	VanessaE	but it's subtle - one or two nodes.
18:26		Ponar_ joined #minetest
18:27	VanessaE	probably just a rounding error or mud reflow
18:29	VanessaE	bottom just right of center, between that small rectangular knoll with the two points on its sides and the larger hill to the left (with the default tree in the middle). first and second are identical, third shows a slight difference there.
18:29		diemartin joined #minetest
18:30	Krock	http://imgur.com/Su0APy5,PP4mr9d#0 141209 and 141211, the 2nd image is a bit turned to the right and from further away
18:30	hmmmm	but i'm not seeing any massive difference like you claimed
18:30	Krock	well, it can get massive when the terrain has a high difference
18:31	Krock	it's just not an "eye candy"
18:32	hmmmm	...
18:32	hmmmm	those pieces of terrain are each identical for mapgen purposes
18:32	hmmmm	in fact, take a look at this: http://i.imgur.com/f2Rw0o2.jpg
18:33	Krock	I do not see any sharp cliffs there
18:33	hmmmm	for the sheer amount of modification done to the mapgen over the course of like 2-3 years, i think that i have a pretty good track record
18:33	hmmmm	only problem are the trees which somebody else messed up
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18:35	VanessaE	what's wrong with them?
18:35	hmmmm	they're different for every map because they're not using pseudorandom with a set blockseed
18:36	VanessaE	I noticed they moved around between your screenshots.
18:36	VanessaE	guess I'm used to that sorta behavior (e.g. moretrees)
18:37	hmmmm	somewhere along the line it was determined that's acceptable because trees moving around are discrete structures and don't actually alter the terrain in between modifications
18:37	hmmmm	i dunno about you guys, but my own testing tells me that mapgen v6, at least, has been pixel perfect since 0.4.4
18:37		FreeFull joined #minetest
18:42	Krock	lua mapgens get very cute borders
18:42	Calinou	I made a Carbone Debian/Ubuntu package!
18:42	Calinou	:)
18:42	Calinou	it works, but only with packaged Minetest
18:43	Krock	looks like the noise is moved by by some nodes
18:47	Krock	http://i.imgur.com/yTtCRnY.png
18:47	Krock	That edge is from the old noise codes, the top and other side of this mountain is new
18:48	Jordach	wait
18:48	Jordach	did V6 just get something nice
18:48	Jordach	pls be biome api
18:49	Calinou	also made More Blocks/Map Tools packages
18:51	Calinou	https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=9033&p=164514#p164514
18:51	Calinou	please test
18:52	VanessaE	pine trees??
18:52	Calinou	https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/82342922/minetest/minetest-mod-maptools.deb
18:52	Calinou	https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/82342922/minetest/minetest-mod-moreblocks.deb
18:52	Calinou	also these
18:53	VanessaE	Krock: what's the elevation of that ledge?
18:54	Krock	VanessaE, the result of a build from a build of 9. and 11. December
18:54	VanessaE	Krock: the Y height, elevation
18:54	VanessaE	how high is that ledge?
18:54	Krock	VanessaE, oh. 47m maybe. gonna check
18:54	VanessaE	that's your answer
18:55	VanessaE	hmmmm: weren't you and paramat going 'round and 'round over that problem?
18:55	Krock	yeah. 47m
18:55	hmmmm	seems to be an issue with watershed
18:55	hmmmm	krock said mapgen v6 output was different, which is frankly a crock of shit
18:55	Jordach	hmmmm, s/crock/krock/
18:56	VanessaE	haha
18:56	Krock	ehm. I've tested the difference from those both builds with the mapgen v6 and yappy. buth times it resulted in those edges
18:56	* Jordach	has partially learned how to write in French due to time spent on MinetestForFun's server
18:56	DogePony	edgy mapgen lol
18:57	Jordach	edgin like a mad mapgen
18:57	Krock	srsly. can nobody reproduce that bug?
19:00	Jordach	i don't use MGV6 due to my love of the Biome API
19:01	Krock	Jordach, you should notice that change in non-dummy worlds
19:02	DogePony	Krock: with imagination I can :P
19:03	Krock	Well then, it seems to be a compiler fail.. deletes some noise-releated .obj files
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19:05	* Krock	found mapgen_math.obj and mapgen_indev.obj
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19:05	VanessaE	Krock: it's for THAT reason that I have `make clean` in my build script :)
19:05	VanessaE	never know what kind of cruft will be left over from a bad build
19:06	Krock	VanessaE, I prefer to wait 10mins instead of 15
19:06	Krock	lazyness ftw
19:06	VanessaE	well you see what THAT got you ;)
19:06	Krock	yes I saw THAT
19:06	DogePony	Krock: you even saw it in 3d :P
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19:14	Krock	It wasn't a compiler fail
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19:37	hisforeverkid	what are the spheres with Sp mean ?
19:41	hisforeverkid	Why am I now getting spawning eoors http://pastie.org/9778680 ?
19:41	hisforeverkid	roorrs
19:42	hisforeverkid	can't type sorry
19:43	Krock	hisforeverkid, is that a special mapgen?
19:43	hisforeverkid	I don't think so
19:44	hisforeverkid	just put in the animal mod
19:45	DogePony	it's just sapier's mod being spammy sigh
19:45	hisforeverkid	how do I see a map in these worlds?
19:46	Krock	compile gsmapper if you mean that
19:46	hisforeverkid	ok ty
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20:11	exio4	kaeza, I would replace things like "o archivo corrupto" for "o corrupto" ( https://github.com/kaeza/minetest/commit/48252fc71c8963e7e53753ecc698fec22df8d67c#diff-7d2d1c27010905158eb155776e4803d9R170 )
20:13	Krock	interesting, this texture difference of voxelands - the mainmenu looks perfect but the skin creator does not have realistic clothes monocolor
20:13	Krock	*clothes, they're monocolor
20:13	MinetestBot	[git] sfan5 -> Uberi/MineTest-WorldEdit: Fix bug with loading old .we file formats, thanks to @Sokomine https:/ http://git.io/qFI7Gg (2014-12-13T21:13:11+01:00)
20:13	exio4	I don't think I have anything else to say :P
20:14	Krock	s/"https:/"//
20:15	sfan5	hm
20:15	sfan5	something went wrong with the commit id
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20:19	Krock	[git] SmallJoker -> SmallJoker/base_game: Revert mgv5/7 biomes https:/ http://git.io/noLiNk (2014-12-13T21:20:00+01:00)
20:20	Krock	copypasta!
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20:23	DogePony	Krock: the colors don't fit (:
20:24	DogePony	*:(
20:24	Krock	DogePony
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20:38	Krock	,00- ,14AnotherBrick ,00quit ,14(Read error: ,00Connection ,08reset by ,00peer)
20:38	Krock	beautifl
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20:51	shibumi	https://paste.archlinux.de/7aT/
20:51	shibumi	there are textures missing or something
20:51	DogePony	,08K,08r,09o,06c,06k,02: ,06T,08h,06i,06s ,04i,11s ,04e,03v,13e,06n ,12m,02o,07r,08e ,08b,03e,04a,10u,03t,03i,09f,10u,07l
20:52	DogePony	shibumi: everything's fine there
20:52	shibumi	nope
20:52	kaeza	"everything's fine"
20:52	shibumi	I just see the background
20:52	kaeza	>no terrain
20:53	kaeza	'different quotation marks'
20:53	DogePony	kaeza: I'm blind today
20:53	sfan5	shibumi: graphics card?
20:53	shibumi	sfan5: 00:01.0 VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Wrestler [Radeon HD 6310]
20:55	sfan5	hm
20:55	Krock	DogePony, see what my new program does: 00:01.0 VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices, ,11Inc. ,00[AMD/ATI] Wrestler [Radeon ,13HD ,006310]
20:55	shibumi	Krock: your programm is really buggy..
20:56	Krock	shibumi, yeah. fixing th marked spaces
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20:57	Krock	,01<Krock>shibumi,,00 yeah. ,03fixing,00 ,03th,00 marked spaces
20:57	Jordach	and Carbone wins the award of what the fuck dude https://cdn.mediacru.sh/6/6Tpa2Dhn1tfF.png
20:58	Krock	Jordach, U no happy?
20:58	gravgun	Indeed, there's much carbon in there
20:58	sfan5	shibumi: which video driver?
20:58	Krock	coal 4 the win
20:59	shibumi	sfan5: xf86-video-ati 1:7.5.0-1
21:00	sfan5	shibumi: the arch wiki says the open-src driver provides sufficient opengl for window managers, that probably means it doesn't work so well for gaming
21:01	Krock	Yay,09!,00,09 ,00more tet!
21:01	Krock	3text
21:01	shibumi	So I should install the proprietary one sfan5 ?
21:01	kaeza	exio4, now? https://github.com/kaeza/minetest/commit/b67e6dda6b01c29cd27638098481546e8bdb88cd
21:01	sfan5	I'd suggest you to try tha
21:01	exio4	the last kernel should be good enough
21:01	sfan5	t
21:01	exio4	kaeza, lemme check <3
21:02	kaeza	exio4, also, -> #-es :3
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21:16	kaeza	https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=10745#p164529
21:22		sdzen joined #minetest
21:22	sdzen	hello there people
21:23	Krock	sdzen, hi
21:24	sdzen	its been awhile
21:24	sdzen	feels like a year
21:25	sdzen	or 0.4.7
21:25	sdzen	I cant recall
21:26	Krock	0.4.7 is from 2013, yes
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21:29	sdzen	okay so a year
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22:11	Jordach	dem realtime physics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o0Nuq71gI4
22:17	gravgun	Jordach: we're only getting closer and closer to simulating the Matrix ;)
22:20	Jordach	gimme an oculus and ill be happy
22:24	kaeza	we're closer to simulating the matrix [in graphics]
22:24	kaeza	but what about actual gameplay? :(
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22:25	Jordach	kaeza, Minetest like AI
22:35	exio4	kaeza, suddenly: Skynet
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