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IRC log for #minetest, 2014-10-15

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Time Nick Message
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00:12 Animetrom can someone help me?
00:13 Animetrom ???
00:19 Fritigern kaeza: I have static_spawnpoint set, but /spawn does not work
00:20 Fritigern Animetrom: Nobodsy can help you if they don't know the problem
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00:22 Cacatoes when trying on local server, indeed, setting static_spawnpoint doesn't seem to help ( Invalid command: spawn)
00:39 kaeza Fritigern, the command is registered only if `static_spawnpoint` is set at load time. blame Krock about that
00:40 Fritigern Why would i blame Krock for a minetest.conf setting?
00:40 Fritigern Correction, a DEFAULT minetest.conf setting
00:40 kaeza Fritigern, not because of a setting, but because of not outright registering the command and simply making it no-op if the setting is not found at runtime
00:42 kaeza actually, /spawn pull was not merged...
00:42 Fritigern That makes zero sense. static_spawnpoint is a vanilla minetest.conf settong, it IS set, and IS loaded at runtime beccause new users spawn there. Try again
00:43 kaeza well, read above. which mod are you using for `/spawn`
00:43 kaeza +?
00:43 Fritigern None
00:43 Fritigern Was i supposed to?
00:44 kaeza well, there's no `/spawn` command by default
00:44 Fritigern And there we have it!
00:45 Fritigern So why in the world would you assume someone uses a mod for /spawn if they never said that they did?
00:45 kaeza eh?
00:45 Fritigern [15:16:23] [[ Cacatoes ]] someone point me to a way to enable /spawn command ? I haven't found. I want a way for players to teleport back to a safe place
00:46 Fritigern You replied to that, saying [15:56:28] [[ kaeza ]] Cacatoes, `/spawn` does not work unless you set `static_spawnpoint`
00:46 kaeza Fritigern, my response was based on the assumption that this was merged: https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest/pull/1690/files
00:46 kaeza which was not
00:48 Fritigern Then you were also assuming that Cacatoes as using a version wuich was built in the last 17 days, which as a lot of assumptions to make
00:49 Fritigern *as = are
00:49 kaeza my apologies, should refrain from trying to help next time
00:49 Fritigern No, but you should ask for more infrmation instead of assuming stuff.
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00:52 twoelk hehe, same thing happened to me a few days ago. I was absolutely convinced /spawn had been merged and thus gave a lot of rubish advice
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01:50 * RealBadAngel yawns
01:52 * twoelk goes to bed
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01:57 zat what is spawn for anyway?
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02:20 AllEvil669 I'm pulling my hair out here. I can't get a crafting recpie to work.
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02:23 RealBadAngel zat, whats your problem with "spawn" ?
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02:25 zat RealBadAngel: not knowing its purpose!!! lol!!!
02:26 RealBadAngel you mean the spawn as area?
02:27 zat the /spawn command
02:28 RealBadAngel a sec
02:29 zat why not making a /sec command then?
02:29 OldCoder AllEvil what recipe
02:29 OldCoder is the obvious question
02:29 OldCoder Hm, he/she is gone
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02:46 zat I am gone too!!!
02:47 RealBadAngel frustrating when you are lookin for an answer and one who asked just left
02:51 OldCoder Happens
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03:07 AllEvil669 Does anyone know how crafting recpies work? I cannot get any of them to output anything.
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03:31 zlsa RealBadAngel, AllEvil669 is back
03:32 zlsa OldCoder, ^
03:33 AllEvil669 Is that a bad thing?
03:33 AllEvil669 Should I go?
03:34 zlsa no
03:34 zlsa they asked questions about it after you left
03:34 zlsa but you weren't here anymore.... :)
03:36 RealBadAngel AllEvil669, youre writing a mod or what?
03:37 AllEvil669 Yes.
03:38 AllEvil669 I've been "testing", and I think my issue with crafting recpies stems from the "shape" of the defined recipe.
03:40 OldCoder AllEvil669, go on
03:40 Cylus What shape?
03:41 OldCoder AllEvil669, how about cloning an existing mod first, a very simple one, and changing what it does?
03:41 OldCoder This is almost guaranteed both to work and to teach you how it goes
03:41 AllEvil669 Yes, that was what I did to get to where I am.
03:43 OldCoder At what stage did it break?
03:45 AllEvil669 At the stage where I stare at the code for 24 hours straight, and the miss a closing bracket. I'd like to thank LazyJ, in #minetest-mods for pointing me in the right diredction.
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03:46 AllEvil669 I fell like a rank noob now. I thought I was past these types of mistakes.
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03:48 Cylus AllEvil669: It happens to the best of us.
03:48 AllEvil669 Yeah, I just feel slilly making mistakes I made 20+ years ago.
03:49 AllEvil669 I should be making exciting new mistakes.
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06:59 Zeno` Are you there RealBadAngel?
06:59 Zeno` How do I test this mesh.7z ?
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07:14 Zeno` nvm :)
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07:59 xrazybud how do i change the order of loading mods?
08:00 xrazybud technic says an error for pipeworks but i have that
08:01 Miner_48er add pipeworks to technic's depends file
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08:01 xrazybud how do you do that?
08:02 Miner_48er open depends.txt in a text editor and add pipeworks on a new line
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08:03 xrazybud it's in it
08:06 Miner_48er did it work?
08:06 xrazybud no
08:07 xrazybud it's in technic/technic though... do all those folders need to be in the root mod?
08:07 Miner_48er paste the error at pastie.org and paste the link here
08:08 xrazybud http://pastie.org/9649094
08:08 xrazybud it's 0.4.10
08:11 Miner_48er what is the name of the pipeworks directory?
08:11 xrazybud pipeworks
08:14 xrazybud pipeworks has loaded fine before too
08:16 Miner_48er what versions of technic and pipeworks are you using?
08:17 xrazybud technic from https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=11&t=2538 and not sure about pipeworks
08:17 Miner_48er when did you download them?
08:18 xrazybud pipeworks maybe a few weeks ago and technic just now
08:20 Miner_48er there was a recent update to technic for a change in pipeworks try updating pipeworks
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08:22 xrazybud awesome that worked thanks
08:22 xrazybud i'll be able to idle here maybe starting next week
08:23 Miner_48er good
08:23 xrazybud and chat too :P
08:23 xrazybud i was thinkin about makin an amirite ore plugin loipl
08:24 Miner_48er try looking at some of the ore generation mods for ideas
08:26 Miner_48er moreores is the most used one
08:29 xrazybud do you have any tips on finding the ores?
08:29 xrazybud in game
08:29 ThatGraemeGuy dig. look. repeat.
08:29 ThatGraemeGuy :-p
08:30 xrazybud hehe
08:30 Miner_48er yes there supposed to be random
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08:43 Amaz Does anyone have any idea why this code doesn't work? if pos.x = 77 and pos.y = 256.5 and pos.z = 193 then With any thing other than = (Like > or <=) it works, but with =, it generates this error: init.lua:12: 'then' expected near '='this error:
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08:46 Zeno` ==
08:47 Zeno` = is assignment, == is comparison
08:47 * sfan5 meows at exio4
08:47 Amaz Great, thanks!
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09:05 Fritigern Zeno`: I have made that mistake a lot on Secondlife, wehre i do code quite a bit. For example if(name = "bill"){do stuff} instead of if(name == "bill"){do stuff}. I workaround that shortcoming of mine by inverting the comparison to if(name != "bill"){return}else{do stuff}. It's ugly, but it may have saved me from mindlessly staring at the code for who knows how mny times.
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09:19 Zeno` Yes, I don't like inverting the order of operands (it's not natural). I believe that Amaz was talking about Lua, though so it's an error and not a warning that most (all?) modern C and C++ compilers will emit
09:20 Zeno` I do do stuff like if ((x = blah()) {} // i.e. add parenthesis
09:23 Amaz Yes, I was talking about Lua.
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09:28 Zeno` I dunno... maybe it's personal preference but I really hate seeing stuff like if (0 == x) {}
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09:31 PilzAdam lol, https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?p=158247#p158247
09:35 Zeno` Lua mapgen can't be efficient <--- I'd agree with that
09:36 Zeno` LVM takes wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy too long to populate the table (and write it back)
09:36 Zeno` much longer that the actual mapgen stuff itself
09:37 Zeno` i.e. 60x longer in most cases
09:37 Zeno` mainly because data is scattered all over the place in the engine
09:41 * sfan5 meows at Zeno`
09:44 * Zeno` barks
09:44 Zeno` lol
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09:49 GhostDoge It's automatic reconnect time! \o/
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10:01 * Amaz quacks at ElectronLibre
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10:43 Amaz !server cube
10:43 MinetestBot Amaz: Cube World | minetest.ig42.org | Clients: 4/10, 2/6 | Version: 0.4.10-dev / minetest | Ping: 111ms
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11:11 Megaf_ Amaz: is the world a cube in that server?
11:11 Amaz Yep.
11:12 PenguinDad !server ping:least
11:12 MinetestBot PenguinDad: Craig's Server | 86.140.28.58 | Clients: 2/30, 1/5 | Version: 0.4.10-dev / Craig-Server | Ping: 13ms
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12:00 Zeno` is there anyway to reset/clear ALL nodes/mapgen below a certain depth?
12:04 Fritigern I have an issue, in minetest.conf i have set static_spawnpoint = 473, 20, -241 , but for some reason, new users spawn at -161, 19, 289. Does anyone have any idea why, and more importantly, how can i fix this?
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12:06 Fritigern The weirdest part is that people USED to spawn at the intended location, but not anymore. This really is a big issue
12:08 ThatGraemeGuy_ Zeno`: I wrote a Python script that did that a while ago
12:08 ThatGraemeGuy_ its kinda ugly though
12:08 Zeno` ThatGraemeGuy_, does it work with leveldb?
12:09 ThatGraemeGuy_ sqlite3, but if you know python I'm sure it could be modified
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12:10 ThatGraemeGuy_ it basically goes through every mapblock found in the db, decodes the co-ordinates, and if its east/west/below/whatever parameters you want deletes the block
12:10 Zeno` hmm
12:10 ThatGraemeGuy_ i've thought of cleaning it up and putting it on github, just never got to it
12:11 Dragonop Hi
12:11 ThatGraemeGuy_ since i was looking at that a few months ago, this is the second time i've ever seen anyone ask for such a thing
12:11 Zeno` it'd be nice if it worked for all db backends
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12:26 Fritigern Okay, i have no choice bot to take my serve offline until i have found a solution for this problem
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12:28 Amaz Fritigern, is there a mod that has anything to do with spawning?
12:28 Fritigern There used to be, but is no longer installed, so everything should have reverted to the old behavior
12:29 Amaz Odd.
12:29 Fritigern To be precise, i used to have ServerExtended 0.5, but it caused larger issues that the ones that it would solve
12:31 Fritigern One of the modules of ServerExtended caused regular users, new and existing ones, to hang in limbo upon login (admins were not affected). Unacceptable of course. So it's gone.
12:33 Amaz Does this work? http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=gGYBuAj2
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12:33 Fritigern I don;t know, i am not a coder
12:33 Amaz Could you try it?
12:33 Fritigern How, what, where?
12:34 Zeno` that shouldn't be necessary
12:34 Zeno` can you paste the .conf line for static spawn?
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12:34 Fritigern I already have : static_spawnpoint = 473, 20, -241
12:34 Zeno` did you paste that?
12:35 Fritigern I did paste it from minetest.conf
12:35 Zeno` try without spaces
12:36 Zeno` e.g. static_spawnpoint = 473,20,-241
12:36 Fritigern okay, done. Starting up the server and logging in with the testuser
12:36 Zeno` I don't think testuser is probably a "new user"
12:37 Fritigern testurser is definitely a new user. I just created it
12:37 Zeno` k
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12:38 Fritigern Nope, i even made a new new user, but no joy
12:39 Fritigern I can't help but feeling that this wasn;t a bug, but that it was a hack instead.
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12:39 Zeno` have you got some kind of spawn mod installed?
12:39 Fritigern [05:28:03] [[ Amaz ]] Fritigern, is there a mod that has anything to do with spawning?
12:39 Fritigern [05:28:38] [[ Fritigern ]] There used to be, but is no longer installed, so everything should have reverted to the old behavior
12:40 jin_xi Fritigern: can you try set another static spawnpoint closer to origin for a test? Nothing further than 200 nodes
12:40 Fritigern You mean closer to 0,0,0?
12:40 jin_xi yes
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12:41 Fritigern I'll give it a go. 10,3,10 should do it i think
12:41 jin_xi yes
12:44 Fritigern Nope, i died and respawned at the "unauthorised" spawn point.
12:44 jin_xi ok. thanks for trying
12:44 Amaz Add http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=gGYBuAj2 into init.lua of a mod folder (Maybe call it respawn), and it should work...
12:44 Amaz Not ideal though.
12:44 Zeno` wait, so they spawn at the right place but not respawn at the same place after they die?
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12:45 Fritigern No, both the initial spawn, as the respawn_on_death is in the wrong spot
12:46 Fritigern Amaz, your method would suppress a symptom, not cure the disease.
12:46 Zeno` you haven't got it twice in the .conf file?
12:46 Amaz Yep.
12:46 Fritigern Or, in IT terms, it's a workaround, not a solution
12:46 Zeno` just ruling things out :)
12:46 Fritigern Zeno`: I checked, it's there only once
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13:35 jin_xi nethack speedrun with df music https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJ8x3Bps1Q4
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14:01 zat what could this be? http://pastebin.com/Qsa9jXSt
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14:12 ElectronLibre zat, an error. It's probably minetest which can't write the file because there is not enough place, or because it is not allowed, or another reason.
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15:02 PenguinDad They are watching :D http://a.pomf.se/lkczna.png
15:03 Amaz They are watching a lot! https://cdn.mediacru.sh/nHfcdMb4U5En.png
15:03 Amaz :D
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15:03 ElectronLibre Are these doppelgangers mobs?
15:04 zat1 ElectronLibre: but I have like 30G free
15:04 Amaz Nope.
15:04 ElectronLibre zat1 : It's probably minetest is not allowed to write there.
15:05 exio4 \o/ hi weird and lovely people
15:05 Amaz ElectronLibre, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1738
15:05 zat1 ElectronLibre: the bug isnt reproducible
15:05 zat1 ElectronLibre: minetest always starts fine
15:06 PenguinDad ElectronLibre: these are meshnode
15:06 PenguinDad s
15:06 ElectronLibre Ah, I see.
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15:20 Fritigern Is anyone aware of an exploit that will let a mlicious user set the spawn point to an arbitrary location in such a way that it can not be changed back? Because if such an exploit exists, then i may have been hit with this one
15:21 Fritigern Now, i am not interested in HOW it works, i would like to know how to fix this mess
15:22 Fritigern And by spawn point i mean static spawn point
15:22 Amaz Fritergern, what happens if you remove the static spawn point from the config?#
15:23 Fritigern I don;lt know but chances are that users will still spawn in the wrong location.  Zeno and i have been messing with this and look at what happened:
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15:24 Fritigern 06:44:40: ACTION[ServerThread]: zeno damaged by 36 hp at (-161,19.987,289) | 06:44:42: ACTION[ServerThread]: Moving zeno to static spawnpoint at (473,20,-241) | 06:44:42: ACTION[ServerThread]: zeno respawns at (-161,20,289)
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15:24 VanessaE Fritigern: that's a lag problem
15:24 VanessaE known bug, it's not an exploit at all
15:24 Fritigern Moving zeno to 473,20,-241 because he died, but respawns at -161,20,289
15:25 Fritigern Lag? This is a consistent thing
15:25 VanessaE it has to do with the client taking too long to acknowledge the death or somethinbg
15:25 VanessaE -b
15:25 Fritigern It is where new users spawn, you have seen it. That is NOT the spawn point that i set
15:25 VanessaE remember, the server has the absolute last word on where the client needs to be in the world, including acknowledging dig/build actions.
15:26 VanessaE it's a bug
15:26 VanessaE notice where the user respawned at - the same place they were killed at,
15:26 Fritigern I refuse to believe that it is lag. It can not be that lag causes ALL new users to spawn in the wrong spot
15:26 VanessaE it IS lag.  this is an ollllllllld bug
15:26 Fritigern They will alo respawn there if they get killed on the toerh side of the map
15:26 VanessaE directly related to the code that communicates death messages between the server and client
15:26 cities I spawn there and I never died there
15:27 VanessaE has nothing at all to do with the code that teleports the user around as far as I know
15:27 Fritigern LISTEN! NEW USERS SPAWN THERE WHILST THAT IS NOT THE STATIC SPAWN
15:27 VanessaE Fritigern: dude, I'm telling you this is a known bug!  https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/81
15:28 VanessaE it's THAT old
15:28 Fritigern That is unrelated. Repeated death?
15:28 VanessaE new users spawning somewhere other than the static spawn is ALSO a known bug
15:28 VanessaE it's a networking glitch
15:28 VanessaE the repeated death is related to the kill bug you first mentioned.
15:28 Zephlon why doesn't the client just wait to receive spawn coordinates from the server before respawning?
15:28 Zephlon that's how it should work
15:29 Fritigern Lag can not be the issue, the server is local to me, and my new users too spwan there
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15:29 VanessaE Fritigern: it IS lag, even if it's local.
15:29 VanessaE it's weird like that
15:29 VanessaE it's stupid, I know
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15:29 VanessaE it's some weird bug in the networking code
15:30 VanessaE even a microsecond of lag could be enough to trigger it I guess
15:30 VanessaE happens on my servers and on Zeno's too
15:30 Zephlon lag can happen regardless of whether the server is at 127.0.0.1 or on the other side of the world
15:30 Fritigern Again, i refuse to believe that because it does not explain why the static_spawnpoint would be honored even when the server was highly stressed by another process
15:31 VanessaE I'm telling you it's a network glitch
15:31 Fritigern It changes from one day to another
15:31 Fritigern *changed
15:31 VanessaE it's a known bug that we've been fighting for a long while now
15:31 Dragonop #minetest-dev
15:31 VanessaE https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/922
15:31 VanessaE there
15:31 VanessaE that's the one I wanted to link to
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15:33 Fritigern Not related. This is about respawning at player position. That IS lag
15:33 VanessaE no, read the bug
15:33 VanessaE that's about the client sending movement packets too fast
15:34 VanessaE [10-15 11:27] <Fritigern> 06:44:40: ACTION[ServerThread]: zeno damaged by 36 hp at (-161,19.987,289) | 06:44:42: ACTION[ServerThread]: Moving zeno to static spawnpoint at (473,20,-241) | 06:44:42: ACTION[ServerThread]: zeno respawns at (-161,20,289)
15:34 VanessaE is that not what this is?
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15:34 VanessaE player gets killed, player respawns, player gets teleported back to kill point
15:34 Fritigern New user, never logged in before. Spawns at wrong coords
15:34 Fritigern You KEEP overlooking that
15:34 VanessaE that's a different, also known bug
15:35 VanessaE I told you, that's a network glitch
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15:35 Fritigern They all spawn at the same wrong coords
15:35 VanessaE either that or you set the value in your static_spawnpoint incorrectly :-)
15:36 Fritigern static_spawnpoint = 473,20,-241
15:36 VanessaE usually the glitch puts players at 0,0,0
15:36 VanessaE or something similar
15:36 VanessaE somewhere close to the world origin
15:36 Fritigern -161,20,289 is not close
15:36 VanessaE which I *believe* is because the "find a good spawn location" code is kicking in
15:37 Fritigern 0,0,0 has a nice 32x32 platform to catch people
15:37 Fritigern So it should be suitable
15:37 VanessaE -161,20,289 might be the result of a hangup in the server then
15:37 VanessaE someone ended up there, and now the server doesn't want to acknowledge that they've left that area
15:37 Fritigern Consistently? For days on end? across hard and soft reboots?
15:37 VanessaE we've had THAT problem for a while too
15:38 VanessaE no, that's different.  I've never seen it persist across a reboot
15:38 VanessaE you've got a mod doing it then
15:38 VanessaE maybe a jail mod?
15:38 Fritigern Well, this IS persisten, which is what it kept telling you
15:38 Fritigern No jail mod on this server
15:38 VanessaE you never mentioned that it was persisting across reboots.
15:38 Fritigern Nothing of the sort even
15:39 VanessaE do you maybe just have more than one static_spawnpoint set in your config files?
15:39 VanessaE say one in your server config and a second one being set in a game conf somewhere?
15:39 VanessaE something of that nature?
15:39 VanessaE (or even just two in your server config)
15:41 Fritigern No, i checked. I removed all server-relateds stuff from my game config, all client-related stuff from my server config, just to make sure that there can be no cross-contamination
15:41 Fritigern and i have gone over both repeatedly, but nothing
15:42 VanessaE if it using the two bugs I mentioned, and there's no configuration oversight, then there HAS to be a mod pushing users to that location somehow.
15:42 Fritigern I moved the static_spawnpoint line to the end of minetest.conf to make sure that it was not overwritten by a missed, duplicate static_spawnpoint
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15:43 Amaz Can you give us a list of mods?
15:44 Fritigern I can. Hold on
15:46 jin_xi is it always the same point for all users? if so try grepping for the number
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15:46 Fritigern My modlist: http://pastebin.com/M8cCaNJv
15:47 Fritigern jin_xi: Yes, it is always the same spot, which just so happens to be in the middle of a village, in the middle of a path, immediately in front of a door. Too many coincidences for my liking
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15:48 VanessaE sounds like some kind of sethome-related mod
15:48 jin_xi maybe there is some old home or bed around
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15:52 Fritigern Well, i am completely stumped, if this proves to be unfixable, i will have to start the world all over again and hope that this was a one-time deal.
15:54 Amaz Fritigern, try coping the map.sqlite to a new world, and seeing if that works.
15:54 Amaz May be worth a try.
15:56 Fritigern Amaz: I have tried something that i would expect to have a similar effect. I moved all the non-essential config files into a backup folder, and started the world again, but that didn;t help. I wil try your method later
15:57 Zephlon is it always the same coordinates?
15:57 Fritigern [08:47:46] [[ Fritigern ]] jin_xi: Yes, it is always the same spot, which just so happens to be in the middle of a village, in the middle of a path, immediately in front of a door. Too many coincidences for my liking
15:58 Zephlon what operating system is the server running on?
15:58 Fritigern Linux. Kubuntu 14:10 beta
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16:01 Zephlon Try running this command in the terminal: grep -rnw '/path/to/minetest' -e "insert coords here"
16:02 Zephlon that should find every file that contains the wrong coordinates
16:02 Fritigern Already did, and it found it in debug.txt only
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16:23 * Amaz throws https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1738 at Jordach
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16:38 Calinou https://github.com/minetest-​technic/technic_game/pull/10 heh
16:38 Calinou stumbled upon it by looking at nuclear's profile
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16:57 Fritigern Amaz: I have learned a few things: moving the db to a new instance of the server (including mods) will result in users spawning in the wrong location. Moving the db to a clean minetest_game instance makes the user spawn close to (but not on) 0,0,0.  this would indeed suggest a mod behaving badly, but only beds could conceivibly be remotely responsible, but nothing changed when i disabled that one
16:59 Fritigern I jut so completely done now, so totally fed up. I think that, if my co-admin agrees, i will just completely regenerate the world and hope it will never happen again. I will keep a backup of the server with stubborn spawn point, in case someone would want to investigate as some point in time
16:59 Fritigern But right now, i am tired, haven;t slept all noght, so i will see if i can have a 3-hour nap or so
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17:09 realtinymonster PenguinDad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wV2rM672HhE
17:10 Krock meow
17:11 PenguinDad Krock: omg so excited https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1738
17:12 rubenwardy Hi all!
17:13 Dragonop joined #minetest
17:14 Krock dat stuff.
17:14 realtinymonster 255!
17:14 realtinymonster 255!
17:14 realtinymonster 255!
17:14 realtinymonster was kicked by ShadowBot: Message repetition flood detected.
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17:15 PenguinDad !c str(2**4-1) + "!"
17:15 MinetestBot '15!'
17:16 PenguinDad !c str(2**8-1) + "!"
17:16 MinetestBot '255!'
17:16 PenguinDad ^ realtinymonster :P
17:18 rubenwardy !c (str(2**8-1) + "!") * 20
17:18 MinetestBot '255!255!255!255!255!255!255!255!255!255!​255!255!255!255!255!255!255!255!255!255!'
17:19 PenguinDad realtinymonster: <3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEr4bTrR3QU
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17:27 PenguinDad Rest In Pasta realtinymonster
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18:31 iqualfragile OldCoder: i finnaly understand why you put empty lines after your texts, its because you are used to it from talk mode!
18:33 Krock lel. debian testing HDD's output was a kernel panic :D
18:34 PenguinDad Krock is using linux o_O
18:35 Krock PenguinDad, yeah. to test if a PC can boot or not
18:36 iqualfragile looks like it can't
18:36 Krock k, linux failed. starting win 95
18:36 iqualfragile btw: how to freak anybody out: http://google.de./
18:37 Krock ^ https://www.google.de/?gws_rd=ssl ?
18:37 iqualfragile actually, google is a bad example, it redirect
18:38 iqualfragile point was that you can put a dot after any domain name
18:38 iqualfragile and it just looks strange
18:38 Krock http://thisdomaindoesnotexi.st/
18:38 iqualfragile but its obviously valid
18:38 Krock the domain does what it sais
18:39 PenguinDad iqualfragile: how about https://duckduckgo.com./ ?
18:39 iqualfragile certificate warning
18:39 iqualfragile that might even be worth a bug report
18:41 Cylus iqualfragile: The trailing dot doesn't seem to work with HTTPS though, as far as I've seen.
18:42 Cylus iqualfragile: What is "talk mode"?
18:43 iqualfragile Cylus: yes, it does not because the strings "duckduckgo.com" and "duckduckgo.com." are not equal and the certificate is only valid for the first
18:43 iqualfragile Cylus: its when two people logged into the same computer want to talk
18:44 iqualfragile then you can open a direct connection between them and they can read what they type
18:44 Cylus iqualfragile: My certificate is good for cyl.us, cyl.us., *.cyl.us, and *.cyl.us. . However, the trailing dot domains don't work.
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18:45 PenguinDad iqualfragile: are you talking about netcat? :P
18:45 Cylus Huh. I've never heard of that. If you're at the same keyboard, why not just speak? Leaving notes for the other, maybe?
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18:45 iqualfragile PenguinDad: "on the same computer"
18:45 iqualfragile Cylus: "on the same computer"
18:45 iqualfragile Cylus: looks like your webserver is missconfigured
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18:46 PenguinDad iqualfragile: that works with netcat :P
18:46 Cylus iqualfragile: Okay, maybe that was from back when I was having server setup issues. I tried again just now, and it worked. Now I feel like an idiot.
18:47 iqualfragile PenguinDad: but yeah, just like netcat
18:47 Cylus I still can't get www.* to hav it's own VirtualHost, either.
18:47 Cylus *have
18:48 iqualfragile lets play 1990s
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18:48 LT hint: MFAR
18:49 Guest23867 that did not exist in the 1990s
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18:50 sandrossv hello
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18:55 Cylus Guest23867: Never mind, I did something stupid. HTTPS with a trailing dot results in a 400 error.
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18:59 iqualfragile oh, ok, so it wasn't only me
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19:05 Cylus Hmm. But DuckDuckGo's site works with the trailing dot .... I'll have to ask the Apache Web Server people what I could have done wrong.
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19:54 Cylus It seems trailing dots in host names are in fact invalid in HTTPS URIs.
19:54 Cylus "HostName" contains the fully qualified DNS hostname of the server,
19:54 Cylus as understood by the client. The hostname is represented as a byte
19:54 Cylus string using UTF-8 encoding [UTF8], without a trailing dot.
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19:54 Cylus <http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3546.txt>
19:55 sfan5 I wonder why DNS uses stuff with the trailing dot
19:57 Cylus The trailing dot is like the leading slash in a file name.
19:58 Cylus Without it, the name is technically relative.
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21:13 iqualfragile hi shadowzone
21:13 shadowzone Hi.
21:15 PenguinDad <3 i3wm
21:16 iqualfragile PenguinDad: i<3 startx
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21:24 zlsa I <3 i3wm as well
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21:29 Cylus iqualfragile: V
21:29 Cylus <Cylus> It seems trailing dots in host names are in fact invalid in HTTPS URIs.
21:29 Cylus <Cylus> "HostName" contains the fully qualified DNS hostname of the server,
21:29 Cylus <Cylus>    as understood by the client. The hostname is represented as a byte
21:29 Cylus <Cylus>    string using UTF-8 encoding [UTF8], without a trailing dot.
21:29 Cylus * Viper168 (~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168) has joined #minetest
21:29 Cylus was kicked by ShadowBot: Paste flood detected. Use a pastebin like pastebin.ubuntu.com or gist.github.com.
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21:30 PenguinDad Poor Cylus :D
21:30 Cylus PenguinDad: I anticipated that. That's why I did the highlight *before* the paste.
21:31 iqualfragile Cylus: why no unicode? ↑
21:31 iqualfragile
21:31 iqualfragile ←→
21:32 Cylus iqualfragile: Because I was being lazy and didn't want to open gucharmap.
21:32 iqualfragile but its right there on the keyboard, alt + numpad8
21:32 iqualfragile (well, at least on my layout)
21:32 Cylus I don't have a number pad though.
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22:00 sfan5 meow
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22:02 iqualfragile sfan5: do you know when mapblocks get saved?
22:02 sfan5 no
22:02 iqualfragile do you know if they only get saved if changed?
22:02 sfan5 no
22:02 sfan5 why are you asking me
22:03 sfan5 I mean like
22:03 sfan5 they are probably changed if not saved
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22:31 lamefun Minetest sure looks as if it got more popular!
22:31 VanessaE yep, and without the need for HTML5, and without Lua(JIT) being any problem at all
22:31 VanessaE :P
22:31 Hobodium What, no, it can't get popular! Then I'll have to find something else to work on!
22:33 VanessaE Hobodium: GNU/Hurd? ;)
22:33 Hobodium Hmm, that might just work!
22:34 lamefun http://repo.or.cz/w/luajit-2.0​.git/shortlog/refs/heads/v2.1 - still a one-man project...
22:36 exio4 well, hi
22:36 VanessaE hey exio
22:36 exio4 :D
22:36 exio4 how is it going V?
22:36 VanessaE exio4: about the same as usual
22:37 cities joined #minetest
22:37 exio4 aw :P
22:38 Cylus joined #minetest
22:40 VanessaE damn it.
22:40 lamefun left #minetest
22:44 VanessaE (damn it = kaeza ping'ed out)
22:47 exio4 aw
22:47 lamefun joined #minetest
22:47 VanessaE needed to ask him a question about signs_lib
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22:56 iqualfragile lamewell, we should switch to python
22:56 VanessaE iqualfragile: you missed. twice :P
22:57 iqualfragile VanessaE: i don't understand
22:57 VanessaE he ain't here.  and he returned and left a second time.  so you missed - twice :)
22:57 iqualfragile oh, ok
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22:58 iqualfragile but yeah, switching to python would allow us to use pypy
22:59 iqualfragile which is fast
22:59 iqualfragile and has a propper sandbox
22:59 VanessaE I doubt we'll be adding python or any other language for modding any time soon.
23:00 iqualfragile i don't think that would be too much work, actually
23:00 iqualfragile but yah, most likely
23:02 iqualfragile it would be more work to make some object oriented python interface
23:02 iqualfragile but just the functional part, like it is today should be no problem
23:02 iqualfragile i might even take a swing at that
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23:12 thefamilygrog66 Howdy - I just noticed that on the forums, mods are now broken into 3 forums. Should I assume that if I'm posting a newly written mod, it should now go into the WIP forum, as opposed to the Modding General one?
23:13 exio4 iqualfragile: python is really bad anyway
23:14 iqualfragile exio4: sorry, too late for trolling
23:14 exio4 no, I really mean it
23:14 iqualfragile yeah, me too
23:14 iqualfragile good night
23:14 exio4 uh, k
23:15 exio4 it is a dynamicly typed object-oriented with weird syntax rules language
23:17 exio4 it doesn't have proper lexical scoping either, has mutability by default, well, a lot of stuff
23:17 exio4 Rust seems to do the last things properly
23:18 VanessaE thefamilygrog66: I think so
23:18 VanessaE also hi
23:18 thefamilygrog66 Hi!
23:18 thefamilygrog66 And thanks.
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23:19 exio4 I wish I saw awesome type systems in mainstreams Java-like languages :(
23:19 exio4 an expressive type system would be beautiful in those locked-down languages
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23:20 exio4 it doesn't get OOP right either
23:22 exio4 also, its "functional-programming" support sucks
23:22 exio4 I think I finished this nice talk with myself
23:23 thefamilygrog66 Glad you could work through those issues, man.
23:23 exio4 yeah!
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