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IRC log for #minetest, 2014-06-16

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:29 Enke joined #minetest
00:43 Vazon o wow
00:43 diemartin much awesome
00:44 Vazon no, that server that is on the top of server list should be taken down if you ask me, the owner is a perv
00:48 diemartin ?
00:49 VanessaE how's that?
00:51 Vazon VanessaE join and read the server description
00:51 Taoki joined #minetest
00:52 Vazon Is that really what we want as a image?? as bad as some minecraft servers??
00:52 Vazon ok nvm the sekori server not the current top server
00:57 Vazon VanessaE: did you see it??
01:00 VanessaE what server description?
01:00 Vazon sending naked pictures to the owner -.-
01:02 VanessaE eh
01:02 VanessaE that's not so good...
01:03 Vazon No, no its not. Is there anyway we could block the server from the list??
01:03 VanessaE diemartin: and THIS IS WHY I proposed what I proposed about knocking crap servers off the top!
01:03 Vazon ^^
01:03 Vazon Hell we have little kids who play, they do not need to see that crap
01:05 diemartin yes, but nobody cares about serverlist management it seems
01:05 diemartin and no, a disclaimer is not suitable in this case
01:06 Vazon grrr
01:06 * Vazon is very disgusted
01:11 diemartin let's DDoS it <.<
01:11 Vazon Is it all right if i start a topic for a server list for this??
01:12 Vazon diemartin, hehe
01:12 Enke This about Sektori.org?
01:12 Vazon yes
01:13 Enke Ah.
01:13 Enke That's the last thing we need.
01:13 Vazon indeed,
01:13 Enke *shudders*
01:13 Vazon the bad thing is the at the top so everyone and there brother is seeing it!
01:14 VanessaE their*
01:14 Enke Bingo!
01:14 Vazon Srry Vanessa
01:14 VanessaE Vazon: sorry, I'm a bit of a grammar nazi when it comes to certain things :)
01:14 Enke grammitcal stuff aside, there doesn't seem to be much we can do right now.
01:15 * VanessaE pokes ShadowNinja
01:15 * Vazon is starting a topic on this
01:15 VanessaE (maybe he can manually blacklist it)
01:15 Vazon should i put it in general or problems?
01:15 Enke Hmm. Might work.
01:16 Enke Vazon: Servers forum?
01:16 Vazon I hope so, Vanessa. I really hope so
01:16 Enke Although I think General is the next place to put it.
01:16 Vazon hmmmm
01:16 VanessaE General I suppose
01:16 Vazon ok
01:16 diemartin I think this should not be put in the forums
01:17 Enke diemartin: You have a point. The last thing we want to do is give this guy publicity.
01:17 diemartin "There's no such thing as bad publicity"
01:18 Enke Telling people not to do somthing will pique their interest enough to probably do it. "Kicking elephant problem"
01:19 VanessaE yeah, he's right
01:19 VanessaE don't post it, Vazon
01:19 VanessaE or at least, don't single-out that particular server or reference it in any way
01:19 Enke Put a kid in a room with a stufffed elephant, tell 'em not to kick it. Leave, come back, and they've kicked it because you put the idea in their mind.
01:20 VanessaE I think it's okay to talk generally about crap servers and how we need a community ranking system of some kind
01:20 * diemartin remembers the Doom controversies (also MK)
01:20 Enke VanessaE: Just some kind of list?
01:20 Vazon im not
01:20 VanessaE Enke: list?
01:21 Enke Although that's subject to error as well. Someone banned could give the server a bad rating for no reason other than they were banned.
01:21 Vazon I will not give any server credit for anything
01:22 VanessaE Enke: the idea before was to have users vote servers up/down e.g. like posts on reddit, soylent, etc.  Combine those votes via a formula along with a weak weight against ping and/or lag, the server's uptime and/or age, some basic alphanumeric ordering (weighted), and a very very weak weighting against the number of users
01:23 VanessaE find a good formula that combines those factors and I think it will result in a very fair sort order, imho.
01:23 VanessaE servers like the one in question would disappear into obscurity while good ones would float to the top.
01:24 Enke Possibly. Although the problem of angry banned dip****s remains. #1 rule: People almost never think they're in the wrong, less so with kids and teens.
01:24 VanessaE true.
01:25 * asl think using ping is still just isn't fair, one min it could be sky high, the next, down low
01:25 VanessaE asl: that's why it would be weakly weighted
01:25 VanessaE barely able to have any effect
01:25 VanessaE most of the sort order would come from users' votes and perhaps the server's uptime and/or age
01:26 Enke Older servers more likely to be at the top.
01:26 VanessaE (seems to me that servers that have been around for a while could be expected to have gotten their shit together)
01:27 Enke Precisely. Same with players. Those of us around with no intention to be screwing up will usually have it all figured out.
01:27 VanessaE yep
01:28 VanessaE asl: at most, I would say that ping and lag would be capped and at worst would be able to have as much effect as, oh, let's say 2 user votes in either direction (e.g. really BAD lag would be equivalent to knocking two votes off of the server's count, at worst)
01:29 Enke What # in seconds counts as really bad? Anything above 7-10 seconds?
01:30 Vazon VanessaE, Enke: http://pastebin.com/rVh3ES8s let me know if you would anything changed, i havent posted yet.
01:30 VanessaE Enke: anything over 2-3 seconds, I would say.
01:31 diemartin Vazon, Maybe*
01:31 Enke Okay. I'm with another on a server with 15 seconds of lag. XD (hilariously old computer)
01:31 Vazon thanks
01:32 VanessaE vas/Maby/Maybe/
01:32 VanessaE grrr
01:32 asl the max lag can spike over 100 if some troll put over 1 stack of sapling from more trees and logout and then login after a few hours and they all grow all together
01:32 Vazon got it,
01:32 VanessaE Vazon: s/Maby/Maybe/
01:33 VanessaE asl: well a brief spike would only kick the server down by 2 votes for a short while anyway
01:33 VanessaE Vazon: s/a like/alike/
01:33 Vazon fixed
01:34 VanessaE s/dont/don't/
01:34 NakedFury joined #minetest
01:34 VanessaE those typos aside, this looks good.
01:34 Enke VanessaE: For lag and ping calculations, how often should it do them?
01:34 Vazon done
01:34 Enke Every 1 minute? 5 minutes?
01:34 VanessaE Enke: every time the server list refreshes, which I think is every 2 minutes.
01:34 Vazon VanessaE: ok for me to post?
01:34 Enke Sounds good.
01:35 VanessaE Vazon: yeah, I think so but leave my name out.  write "...so a few of us have come up..."
01:35 Vazon ok
01:36 VanessaE (it may be my idea to use those stats, but hardly my original idea to sort based on something other than #players)
01:36 Vazon lol ok, done
01:36 VanessaE Vazon: also,
01:36 Vazon yes?
01:37 VanessaE I suggest that #players could be included in the weighted score (at a very very low ratio) but only so long as "guestxxxx", "*admin*" and other such "temporary" names are excluded from the list.
01:37 VanessaE the master server list already knows the names, so it can filter those out and get a new count.
01:37 Enke Maybe each person counts for .2 on the score?
01:38 Vazon so admin and guest names msut be excluded?
01:38 Vazon must*
01:38 VanessaE Enke: I would suggest even less, perhaps 0.1, with a cap of 2.0 votes.
01:38 Enke 0.2 with a cap of 2.0 votes?
01:38 VanessaE so that servers like that one that hacked in values of 500+#players can't possibly overly influence it.
01:38 Enke Several servers never make it above 10 players anyhow.
01:39 VanessaE ok, 0.2 capped to 2.0 then
01:39 Vazon VanessaE: i have already posted so, tell me what you want me to add and where
01:39 VanessaE Vazon: link?
01:39 Vazon https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=3&amp;t=9535
01:41 VanessaE Vazon: s/wieghted/weighted/ ; add something in there relative to what Enke and I were just discussing
01:41 VanessaE (weighted number of players, capped and filtered of all "guest"/temporary names)
01:41 VanessaE the idea there is to avoid boosting servers with tons of transient users to the top of the list..
01:43 VanessaE suddenly I am thinking of a scene out of "It's a Mad Mad [...] World"
01:44 Vazon weighted number of players?
01:44 VanessaE about a dozen people were standing in a clearing discussing this big cache of money that Jimmy Durante's character just left to them, provided they can actually find it, and how to divvy it up.  They're all coming up with all these insane ways to split it up into shares.
01:45 VanessaE Vazon: weighted player count, filtered of all guest/temporary names, capped to some reasonable figure for the sake of the score.
01:46 Vazon ok, I think I covered that look to make sure I stated what you ment.
01:46 VanessaE nonono
01:46 Vazon ?
01:47 Vazon im sorry if i got it wrong you to was tossing ideas around, and its not easy to piece to gether what you ment :(
01:47 VanessaE I'll edit the post, ok?
01:47 Vazon kk
01:48 Vazon you two*
01:48 VanessaE done.
01:49 * VanessaE wonders where enke disappeared to
01:50 * Vazon is slowly dragging enke away, when he hears VanessaE calling for enke.
01:50 VanessaE now to propose the actual formula
01:51 Endymion joined #minetest
01:57 Exio4 we need multi-variable lineal interpolation(?)
01:59 VanessaE how about this?   http://pastebin.com/2bkhZB3n
01:59 VanessaE (the only thing I didn't include in the calculation is alphanumeric order, I'm not sure of a good way to do that)
02:01 CraigyDavi_ joined #minetest
02:02 VanessaE so if I did that right, the highest possible score a server could get before user votes are figured in, is 36.
02:02 Vazon VanessaE: i think lag should be a not so heavy as the rest, we all now networks to act up somethings, should we punish the servers for that?
02:04 VanessaE ok, let's weaken it a little.
02:04 Vazon It's up to you, I'm just saying :)
02:04 VanessaE also my math sucks :P
02:05 Vazon lol im great with math, just need to learn to code.
02:05 VanessaE http://pastebin.com/NFPDEcHt
02:06 VanessaE that makes the maximum score 16, but now ping and lag have less effect relative to the other factors.
02:06 Vazon sounds good
02:06 VanessaE or wait, max score was 72, now it's 32.
02:06 VanessaE G*d I suck at maths.
02:06 kizeren joined #minetest
02:07 VanessaE that's before user votes are counted in.
02:07 * Vazon pokes VanessaE with a 8th grade math book
02:07 VanessaE hah
02:07 Vazon :P
02:08 VanessaE so run through that.  does it hold water in the worst case?
02:08 VanessaE 2+ second lag, 2+ second ping, 0 players..    hm that'll screw it up
02:08 VanessaE I didn't account for 0 values in the formula.
02:09 VanessaE http://pastebin.com/inGQwc3y
02:09 VanessaE there.  hack job but it'll keep any zero term from throwing the calculation off.
02:09 Vazon maby set 0 players to not change anything?? since no one is on what does it matter?
02:10 CraigyDavi joined #minetest
02:10 VanessaE ok, the user votes will have to be ADDED to the store, not multiplied.
02:10 Vazon some servers go dark around night so why not let them keep there score till another player joins?
02:11 VanessaE http://pastebin.com/jAZzAfTp
02:11 VanessaE how about that?
02:12 VanessaE at that point the +0.0001's aren't needed.
02:12 VanessaE http://pastebin.com/GAuZ2kE1
02:12 VanessaE there
02:12 Vazon looks good, but what do I know xD
02:12 VanessaE (still needed in the lag/ping to prevent a possible divide-by-0 error
02:13 VanessaE let's go with that ^^^^^ unless someone can come up with a better formula.
02:13 Vazon ya, so what is the total max ending score?
02:14 VanessaE well for 0 lag, 0 ping, a bunch of players, 180+ days of existence and 48+ hours of uptime, that would be votes + (2*2*1)+(2*2) = 8.
02:14 Vazon and is that score even possible for a server to achieve? if it is then we will have servers with the same score, and then what place do we put them
02:16 VanessaE with no user votes, the best score a server could achieve would be 8.  the worst would be nearly 0.
02:17 Vazon kk
02:18 Vazon are we having vote + and - or just vote + ??
02:18 VanessaE I think only upvoting would be allowed.
02:19 VanessaE but some kind of blacklisting also needs to be discussed
02:19 VanessaE so maybe + and -
02:19 VanessaE with a minimum server score of -1
02:19 Vazon well having downvoting would help but make it only worth like .1
02:20 VanessaE since votes are additive in this theory, then a server with really crappy stats and a user votes of -1 or -2 or so, would already be in the negative, so capping it at -1 is probably good enough
02:20 VanessaE (I base this on how SoylentNews and Slashdot operate)
02:20 VanessaE it would only take a handful of user votes to kill these stats, but the theory here is that if the formula is just right, users' votes will be pretty close to what the stats would have arrived at.
02:20 VanessaE (of course there's no accounting for taste :P )
02:20 Vazon maybe have a select few of people who have access to a server ban or blacklist and you must have proof and others that agree the the server was in the wrong to have the server revoked from the list??
02:21 Vazon ok
02:21 VanessaE maybe forum moderators could be given that privilege, but should such moderators speak for the entire Minetest userbase?
02:21 VanessaE blacklisting on the master server list is a BIG deal, or it can be
02:22 VanessaE so yeah, allow up- and down-voting
02:22 VanessaE but cap the lower-end to -1
02:22 VanessaE on Soylent, we refer to that as "being modded down to oblivion" :)
02:22 Exio4 the user is a thing that counts but not so much
02:23 Vazon i dont think forum moderators should have that but make a new group in all a group just for regulating the community off the forums?
02:23 diemartin okay, I must've done something wrong http://pastebin.com/NyFDwyzk
02:23 VanessaE diemartin: which formula did you use?
02:23 diemartin the last one you pasted
02:23 VanessaE you did something wrong then :)
02:23 diemartin http://pastebin.com/GAuZ2kE1
02:24 VanessaE you didn't take min(2, lag_seconds) etc
02:24 VanessaE or I used the wrong function
02:24 diemartin no, I probably used the wrong field somewhere
02:25 diemartin masterserver json format is not documented anywhere
02:25 diemartin WTF is pop_v?
02:25 VanessaE wat
02:25 Vazon ??
02:26 * diemartin reads source
02:27 Eater4 joined #minetest
02:29 VanessaE diemartin: also don't forget to filter out guestxxxx and so forth
02:30 * Eater4 pops in
02:31 * Vazon punts Eater4 back out
02:31 Eater4 I am gonna create a channel to help with servers
02:31 VanessaE that's what this channel is for.
02:32 Eater4 Vazon: it looks like you are on meh server
02:32 Eater4 I plan to make my mansion tonight
02:33 Eater4 does anyone know how to make the message of the day longer on a server? Like, when it pops up, it stays up for the slected amount of time
02:33 Vazon_ joined #minetest
02:34 Vazon_ sorry computer shutdown
02:35 diemartin huh
02:35 diemartin some servers don't even have ping; others don't have age...
02:36 diemartin note how minetest.ru shows '?' as age
02:36 diemartin it would be unfair to treat those as either infinitely new or old
02:39 Vazon_ diemartin the server isnt updated, it needs to be
02:40 diemartin point still stands though
02:41 Enke joined #minetest
02:44 diemartin http://kaeza.mooo.com:8000/scores.txt
02:45 VanessaE diemartin: that's more like it; seems like I screwed up my formula though, I thought the max score would have been 8.  what did I do wrong?
02:46 VanessaE for a server that doesn't report a figure, take the median value maybe?
02:46 Exio4 i still think doing multi-variable lineal interpolation would be enough :P
02:46 Exio4 a simple math function w/o lots of variables
02:47 diemartin VanessaE, users added too much weight (which was what we didn't want)
02:48 VanessaE diemartin: what formula did you use?
02:48 VanessaE (I mean the final formula)
02:49 diemartin http://kaeza.mooo.com:8000/asdf.py
02:49 diemartin probably should remove lag...
02:51 diemartin Exio4, code example pls
02:55 Vazon VanessaE what about temp servers?? like the owners cant run them full time??
02:55 Vazon there scores will be hurt by this fact?
02:55 Vazon their*
03:00 Exio4 diemartin: reduce variables first :D
03:02 kaeza joined #minetest
03:02 Vazon Hi kaeza
03:02 Exio4 then i'd use some 'dirty workarounds' for my lack of math skillz :D
03:03 VanessaE Vazon: their scores won't be *helped* no, but they won't be particularly hurt; that's what user votes are for and why age/uptime are added to the other factors rather than multiplies.
03:03 VanessaE multiplied*
03:04 Vazon ok, thats understandable. We dont want servers that are not able to be up full time to be hurt by this new system.
03:04 Vazon hurt that bad*
03:07 VanessaE kaeza: damn it, make up my mind :)
03:09 Vazon VanessaE: was you able to put at least a temporary stop the that server??
03:10 VanessaE Vazon: I have no power to blacklist it :(
03:10 * Vazon curses under his breath
03:13 VanessaE kaeza: what if you filter out "guest"/"admin" names (that'll reduce sektori's count to 10, nwps.ws to 14)?  how does that affect the listing?
03:14 Vazon is the nwps.ws another problematic server?
03:15 kaeza joined #minetest
03:15 Vazon wb
03:17 VanessaE Vazon: no, it's just another of those where the player count is bloated by transient users
03:17 VanessaE ever since these G*d damned "guest" usernames were added to clients..  ARGH
03:17 Vazon i hate the guests, or as LazyJ put it Guessthatnumber xD
03:19 VanessaE haha
03:21 Vazon mhmm just realized the server list says favorites at the top even tho your on the public serve list
03:24 kaeza lol removing guests plunked that one server to the bottom of the list :D
03:25 the-loop-digga left #minetest
03:30 Vazon what server was that?
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03:39 kaeza http://kaeza.mooo.com:8000/scores.html
03:46 Vazon those points are high i think your have a few extra zeros like 3 :P
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04:06 VanessaE kaeza: er, 404
04:06 kaeza removed it
04:06 kaeza http://kaeza.mooo.com:8000/scores.txt
04:07 VanessaE yeah, now that's more like it
04:09 kaeza updated with latest data
04:09 kaeza (I'm testing with cached list)
04:09 VanessaE yup, that looks about right; cheapie and I just gave all of my servers' rollback logs an enema :)
04:10 VanessaE that's about the kind of spread I was expecting to see, too
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04:12 kaeza lol
04:12 VanessaE ?
04:12 kaeza nvm
04:12 Vazon yes that looks alot better
04:12 kaeza how much is the average server uptime?
04:13 Vazon about 2 days??
04:13 kaeza one day maybe?
04:13 Vazon mine never crashes so no need there
04:13 VanessaE seems like the average is around 8 hours
04:13 VanessaE imho is a server stays up more than 48, the admin is irresponsible
04:13 VanessaE (as vazon said, backups)
04:14 Vazon ya
04:15 VanessaE ho. ly.  crap.   my creative server has really been around for over a year? O_o
04:16 Vazon my server would have been up almost a year if i wouldnt have resarted and restarted then quit
04:16 VanessaE (that's why I suggested capping the age at 180 days :) )
04:18 Vazon grrrr Sertori is still up there
04:25 diemartin joined #minetest
04:27 diemartin okay, the script now does not take into account clients to see how other stuff weighs
04:28 diemartin check output again (same URL)
04:29 * VanessaE checks...
04:30 diemartin might take a while for DNS records to update
04:31 VanessaE there it goes.,
04:31 VanessaE heh, without player counts, those crappy one is way at the bottom :)
04:33 VanessaE but then again so are a couple of good ones
04:34 diemartin Minetest.ru is at the bottom because it does not send age
04:34 VanessaE all of mine because of a recent restart
04:34 diemartin VFFA is probably wrong there, as well as SCFB
04:35 VanessaE yeah
04:46 Vazon wow the score seems to be updating perfectly VanessaE, you did it :D
04:47 VanessaE I blame diemartin for getting the formula right ;)
04:47 Vazon lol
04:47 Vazon now all that is left is for people to listen :)
04:48 diemartin still needs some tweaks
04:48 VanessaE what's your formula now?
04:49 Vazon it could yes, but its still like 10 times  better than before
04:49 Vazon there are 2 many zeros tho
04:50 diemartin http://kaeza.mooo.com:8000/a.py
04:50 * diemartin hides from incoming fire
04:51 VanessaE 31536000.0 ?
04:52 * Vazon looks at diemartin's mumbo jumbo
04:52 diemartin one year
04:52 VanessaE oh ok
04:52 diemartin /4 == 1 "point" every 3 months
04:55 diemartin http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/ima​ges/original/000/234/765/b7e.jpg
04:56 VanessaE lol
04:56 VanessaE wel, it works doesn't it?
04:56 VanessaE "Yeah but I'm here all day!  That thing going up and down?  That's undecent!"
04:57 VanessaE sorry, obscure reference.
04:57 diemartin heh
04:59 VanessaE (Operation Petticoat, Engineer Tosten (sp) commenting on the use of a ladies' girdle to keep a refrigerator valve operating due to lack of a return spring)
05:01 VanessaE regarding lag, I think give it a base value of 0.2 if it isn't reported
05:01 VanessaE or if it reports 0
05:01 VanessaE 200 ms seems like a reasonable value
05:03 Vazon something is causing to a lot of zeros on the score, any idea??
05:03 LazyJ joined #minetest
05:03 * VanessaE pokes LazyJ with a beech tree trunk
05:03 Vazon Hi LazyJ
05:04 LazyJ Howdy ;)
05:05 * LazyJ puts the trunk in the fire place and sips his coffee ;)
05:06 Vazon LazyJ, that house that i was renovating, people keeped blocking the door and using it as there own. So i claimed till it can be put back to the rightful owner
05:06 Megaf [23:44:18] <diemartin> http://kaeza.mooo.com:8000/scores.txt
05:07 Megaf Why my score is so low?
05:07 kaeza <diemartin> still needs some tweaks
05:07 LazyJ Ok, thanks. It's better to set Areas on a renovation and add the original builder to the ownership.
05:07 VanessaE Megaf: no user votes yet, the formula is still being developed.
05:07 frecel joined #minetest
05:07 Megaf ok
05:07 Vazon Ello Megaf
05:08 kaeza and as VanessaE said, user votes would be the bulk of the score
05:08 Vazon I can't code so I doing my best to have it pushed to being used
05:08 Megaf ok
05:09 Megaf well, good night
05:09 Vazon Night
05:10 Vazon LazyJ what is the owners name?
05:13 LazyJ I've forgotten.
05:13 LazyJ What did the signs say?
05:14 Vazon there was no signs, and all locked items have been removed 0.0
05:14 LazyJ Give me a coord of a block that hasn't been changed, please.
05:15 Vazon ok
05:17 Vazon 507, 12, 834
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05:18 LazyJ Popular spot. Four different players have dug/placed something there.
05:18 Jousway joined #minetest
05:19 LazyJ I'll see if I can dig-up a backup.
05:19 Vazon kk
05:20 Vazon msg the names i may remember
05:21 LazyJ Gordini, fourtwenty, GanjaSmokin, and Vazon (suspicious character, that one ;)-  )
05:21 VanessaE lol
05:21 Vazon its me!
05:21 Vazon im sorry it was me xD
05:22 Vazon none was the claimer of that house
05:22 LazyJ I'll have to restore an old backup from an external hd. It'll take a few minutes.
05:22 Vazon maybe that house wasnt wasnt the person who claimed that area
05:23 LazyJ Ganja was in to building a lot of empty, very simple builds to give to other players.
05:24 Vazon ok maby he gave it away
05:35 Vazon Night guys
05:36 VanessaE night Vazon
05:37 LazyJ G'night ;)
05:42 sfan5 !tell PilzAdam I don't think you can forbid distributing software licensed under GPL
05:42 MinetestBot sfan5: yeah, sure, whatever
05:42 VanessaE you can't.
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06:39 VanessaE bbl, bedtime./
06:39 LazyJ Sleep!?
06:39 LazyJ Wazdat?
06:39 VanessaE that thing I shoulda been doing three hours ago :P
06:39 LazyJ G'night, VanessaE ;)
06:39 VanessaE night :)
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08:14 lisacvuk hi
08:15 lisacvuk how to compile irrlicht dll with direct3d9 for minetest?
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10:01 MinetestBot werwerwer_: 06-14 20:06 UTC <Krock> foobar
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10:57 Jordach RealBadAngel, is it possible to get the controls of 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8?
10:57 Jordach those keys in particular
10:58 RealBadAngel you mean read the player's keyboard?
10:58 Jordach yeah
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10:58 RealBadAngel Jordach i think i will provide method to get full keyboard scan
10:58 Jordach that would help
10:59 RealBadAngel it should be made long time ago
10:59 RealBadAngel gimme some time, im coding now small things out of my list, one by one
11:00 RealBadAngel now im coding faces shading for both modes no shaders/shaders
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11:05 ecutruin RealBadAngel, thanks for that.  I was the one bugging Jordach about that.  The type of experience I'm trying to create is quite a bit different when compared to MT/MC's default playstyle.  I need to redesign a lot of interactions.
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11:10 ecutruin I'll be honest, I do worry about being able to accomplish many of the things I wish to via MT.  However, I'm going to give it a go and see what I can manage with the tools available.
11:11 jin_xi +1 for keys
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11:22 ecutruin One issue I do have with MT, is what I saw with VanessaE's pipe mod, that is, no means to tell an entity to go from point A to point B over a set period of time.. causing some cases where the entity seems to shoot farther then it should, and then is recorrected.
11:23 Zeno` that's probably more likely the in-built "anti cheat"
11:24 Zeno` "player moved too fast, resetting position"
11:25 Zeno` a similar "bug" can be seen if you die, the server puts you back at spawn, and then decides you moved too fast (it will put you back where you died... related to lag)
11:25 ecutruin Well, from what I understand, on the server.. the position stays correct the whole time.. but on the client.. it doesn't.  It can kinda jump awkwardly.. and for some things that can be alright.. but for others it might create some rather jarring visuals.
11:26 Zeno` that's correct
11:27 ecutruin So I'll have to be careful what I do with it.
11:28 Zeno` maybe, I'm not sure
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11:29 ecutruin Visuals are VERY important to me.. so that kind of stuff is very jarring.
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11:33 VanessaE ecutruin is correct.
11:34 VanessaE there is no facility to tell an entity to move as he describes, only that they should just...move.
11:34 VanessaE so the server sends periodic position updates to the clients I guess
11:34 Zeno` isn't that what I (sort of) said? :)
11:35 VanessaE nope :)
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11:35 VanessaE it's not related at all to anti-cheat :)
11:35 VanessaE it's related to the-API-for-entities-sucks :D
11:35 * ecutruin snickers.
11:35 * Zeno` is unsure :P
11:36 ecutruin Hey V.. I had an odd idea just now.. what if the entity never moved?
11:36 ecutruin But instead was animated?
11:36 VanessaE ecutruin: explain
11:36 Zeno` I'm sure we were talking about the same thing
11:37 ecutruin Basically for your pipes.. instead of actually moving the entity, create a dummy model with an attachment point that is animated the distance.. for that movement and attach the item to it.
11:37 ecutruin And just incremement the animation frame each tick as it should.
11:37 VanessaE interesting idea.
11:38 VanessaE raise that as an issue on the pipeworks repo so I can point nore at it
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11:38 VanessaE since he coded the item transport logic, he'll want to have a word or two about that
11:38 ecutruin Damn, you're making me be non-lazy? XD
11:38 Jordach ecutruin, yup
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11:39 Jordach i get told this daily
11:39 ecutruin I gotta remember my git.. o.o;
11:39 VanessaE heh
11:39 Jordach mmm
11:39 Jordach chicken mayo sub
11:40 Jordach VanessaE, is that homedecor microwave 1000w?
11:40 VanessaE Jordach: beats me :P
11:41 VanessaE it's magic anyway :)
11:41 VanessaE (you ever see a coal-powered microwave irl? :) )
11:41 ecutruin I thought of the attachment thing earlier as I wanted to be able to lay items down on tables/stoves/etc.. and was told rotating entities like that might be a problem.. so I was like.. what if I animate it rotated first..
11:41 VanessaE ecutruin: but yeah, that's a very interesting idea
11:42 VanessaE as long as the server is able to update the attachment point periodically as the item moves from node to node so that it always looks smooth
11:43 ecutruin I... have no clue how to post this to git.. I've like used git, never.
11:43 Jordach ecutruin, quick tutorial? https://windows.github.com
11:44 ecutruin I just need to use the web thing to post the suggestion, but no clue how to raise an issue.
11:44 ecutruin Found it.
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11:45 Jordach http://dev.minetest.net/Git
11:45 Jordach ^ might help
11:45 VanessaE ecutruin: go to the pipeworks repo, click issues on the right, then at the top right the green button, "New Issue".
11:46 VanessaE https://github.com/VanessaE/pipeworks/issues/new
11:46 ecutruin Yup, done and done.
11:46 ecutruin https://github.com/VanessaE/pipeworks/issues/70
11:46 VanessaE ah, yep
11:46 VanessaE I see it
11:46 Jordach yarp
11:46 Jordach ecutruin, bonus points for a three lettered username
11:47 Jordach those are like rare as a unicorn that shoots platinum laced rainbows
11:47 Jordach as lasers
11:47 ecutruin Hehe.  I've used Ecu forever.  Unfortunately someone snagged it here after I let it lapse.. so no basic Ecu here.
11:47 Jordach fine by me :3
11:47 ecutruin I have 'Ecu' over on Esper. xD
11:47 Jordach lol
11:51 ecutruin I'm not sure how well the attachment system in MT works.. as I haven't actually had a chance to play with it at all.. but if it works well, then yeah.. you'd need quite a few dummy items models for the different directions/durations/speeds, but it should offer what's needed.  I expect there could be some frameskipping if the server is massively desynced from the client..
11:51 ecutruin but the items should still stay in the pipes, just seem to slow/get stuck at points where its waiting on the server.. or skip ahead if the client lags and the server updates before the client finished.
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11:53 VanessaE actually that's what I'd prefer - an item should just stop when the server lags, rather than slide out of a pipe.
11:57 * ecutruin nods.
11:58 ecutruin What's why I suggested it. ^-^ Figured it'd give you a much better visual effect of lag then glitchiness.
11:59 ecutruin And honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if its not more efficient on the client.. I half expect a moving entity is much worse on performance then an animating one.
11:59 ecutruin And WAY better for the server.. as it wouldn't care about the animation at all.. except to trigger it.
12:00 ecutruin You would have to create a list within the pipe though of what's inside it.. and essentially fake the moving item kind of.. a sort of duration that the item is there.. so you can pass it onto the next one.
12:03 ecutruin Not sure if the list thing might not be detrimental.
12:03 ecutruin It'd probably need to be tested for performance, to see which is the best option.
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12:09 VanessaE you should write all of this in your issue you filed :)
12:09 ecutruin Bleh, I closed it already. xD
12:10 ecutruin I want to test this stuff myself too, cause I need a lot of visual effects for my project.
12:10 VanessaE https://github.com/VanessaE/pipeworks/issues/70
12:10 VanessaE :)
12:10 ecutruin Fine! xD
12:11 VanessaE haha
12:12 Jordach ecutruin, remember, we all take the piss out of each other
12:16 ecutruin There.
12:29 ecutruin Let me know if it does get implemented, VanessaE, hopefully with a short youtube video. ^-~  I'd love to see it functioning.
12:29 VanessaE it'll be nore who does it if anyone
12:30 VanessaE he knows the item transport logic WAY better than me :)
12:31 ecutruin Hehe.
12:31 VanessaE less'n you wanna try to code it ;)
12:31 ecutruin I'll have to code item transport logic eventually.
12:32 ecutruin But mine will be more akin to conveyor belts.
12:33 ecutruin In which case, moving entities might be the only option.. if I want it to work with mobs at least.
12:35 VanessaE well in pipeworks' case, what gets coded must operate the same as it does now (well save for operating *better* of course ;) )
12:36 ecutruin I really need the ability to alter nodes dynamically though. >.<
12:37 ecutruin I cannot do multiple slabs in the same block, and similar such things without that ability.
12:37 ecutruin Or without using 500,000 nodes. xD
12:43 ecutruin Hey VanessaE, since you have experience using multiple mods on a server, is there a practical limit to the number of nodes types loaded?
12:44 VanessaE yes, 32766.
12:44 VanessaE that's the hard limit
12:45 VanessaE the practical limit is somewhat lower, really depends on the speed of your machine and how much code you have to execute to actually register than many nodes.
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12:49 Jordach_ goddamn bt hub
12:49 Jordach_ dies every now and then
12:51 ecutruin Ah.  So doing say double slabs with variances for each slab type for my project, on top of doing it for each direction (not sure if facing is separate nodedefs) could get VERY impractical the more materials I add, eh?
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12:57 Jordach_ ecutruin, there is facedir
12:57 Jordach_ which means the front always points at the player when placed
12:58 ecutruin Does that alter the textures correctly as well?  So if I had different side textures for a node, it would use the correct ones, rotated correctly based on facedir?
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12:59 VanessaE ecutruin: yes
12:59 Jordach_ there's also minetest.rotate_node() which can make it face vertically, upside down, and other directions like face west with another axis at 180
13:00 VanessaE the hangup is just trying to combine two or more slabs.  you'd need to have every possible combination.  e.g. sandstone + brick, brick + cobble, cobble + sandstone, etc etc ad nauseum.
13:00 Jordach_ so why don't we have a table with the slab names
13:00 Jordach_ and just iterate over it
13:01 VanessaE if the meta_set_nodedef code ever goes in, that would fix it.
13:01 Jordach_ creating the halves
13:01 VanessaE Jordach_: because stairsplus.
13:01 VanessaE the result would be millions of possible combinations.
13:01 Jordach_ stairsplus is BS and you know it
13:01 ecutruin Yeah.. I'd have to go through every slab type, create a texture for it being on top and for it being on bottom, for each side, and then run them through combination loops, registering new nodes for each..
13:01 ecutruin It would be pretty terrible.
13:01 VanessaE what, I like stairsplis
13:01 VanessaE it adds lots of useful shapes.
13:01 Jordach_ VanessaE, and remove the normal methods of CRAFTING
13:02 Jordach_ some people want to build not spend 2 hours wondering why a simple craft got revoked
13:02 VanessaE ecutruin: you wouldn't have to do top vs bottom vs sides, merely the combination of the two materials.
13:02 ecutruin Alternatively, I could create static entities for slabs and do it that way.
13:02 VanessaE ecutruin: facedir will flip the node upside down/sideways for you
13:02 VanessaE Jordach_: that has since been un-busted.
13:03 ecutruin VanessaE, I would have to do the different ones because top might be different if it was the 'top' slab versus the 'bottom' depending on what kind of slab it was.
13:03 VanessaE stairsplus doesn't override the default recipes anymore.
13:03 VanessaE ecutruin: well maybe.  best bet is to wait for meta_set_nodedef.
13:03 ecutruin Yeah.
13:03 VanessaE with that, we have microblocks, too
13:03 ecutruin That'll allow me to do actual multipart.
13:04 VanessaE but the code is out of date now
13:04 VanessaE it worked well though
13:04 VanessaE I played with it a bit
13:04 ecutruin Awesome.  I mean, I technically need it.. in order to do my design.
13:04 ecutruin But I plan on 'fudging' it with entities for now.
13:05 VanessaE I would advise an anchor node that will re-spawn those entities if they get erased
13:05 VanessaE ( /clearobjects )
13:05 VanessaE (and the WorldEdit area equivalent)
13:09 Megaf !title https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?p=145224#p145224
13:09 MinetestBot Megaf: Public Server List Reform! - Minetest Forums
13:09 Megaf ^ Vazon
13:10 ecutruin VanessaE, yeah.. that was kind of the plan.  I need the entities for my crafting system.  So that'll be the only way I can do it.
13:11 VanessaE good luck with it :)
13:12 VanessaE I'm off
13:12 VanessaE bbl
13:13 ecutruin Later V.
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13:27 Taoki RealBadAngel: Latest Technic game GIT is broken. wireless/init.lua seems to have an issue
13:28 RealBadAngel Taoki, well, i havent updated technic_game for a long time. Mainly because theres technic_game2
13:29 Taoki ah. What's the difference, and why a different name and repository?
13:30 RealBadAngel all the mods are included, no links to their repos
13:30 Jordach_ because they fucked up that badly they've had to do it again
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13:30 RealBadAngel hehehe
13:30 RealBadAngel i was always against submodules
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13:31 Jordach_ RealBadAngel, got a video of meshnodez?
13:31 * Taoki nods
13:32 RealBadAngel theres also nore's mg included, you may decide you want it or not
13:32 RealBadAngel also a few other new mods
13:36 Taoki Sadly, it seems that even in singleplayer the lag is so bad you can barely see the world loading or the server starting up. I guess that's mostly the engine's fault tho
13:38 Taoki RealBadAngel: OMG, it's using the John Smith x32 texture pack? That pack is awesome, but I didn't see any indication of it being freely licensed
13:38 Taoki Ah, ambience mod... sadly that's why it lags :( Awesome mod with good sounds, but extremely laggy
13:40 RealBadAngel texture pack will be propably removed
13:40 RealBadAngel i really would love to have it as default, but as you mentioned, its not free propably
13:41 Taoki ok. No idea if it is, trying to get around to the author
13:42 Taoki I wonder if anyone knows. Either what the license of the TP is or where I can find Semmett9 (on the forum he seems rather inactive)
13:42 Taoki https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=4&amp;t=5383
13:42 Taoki And I REALLY wish people would mention the license on texture packages >_>
13:44 FreeFull Huh
13:45 FreeFull You can use the circular saw to duplicate blocks, if you have at least two
13:46 FreeFull I think it's due to lag
13:47 FreeFull What you need to do is create some microblocks in "Rest/microblocks", put them in your inventory and then quickly into "Recycle output"
13:50 FreeFull Actually, it doesn't have to be quick at all
13:50 FreeFull So not lag
13:53 FreeFull The microblocks have to come from the "Rest/microblocks" slot though
13:54 FreeFull I think it's to do with something not zeroing when you take the microblocks out
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14:02 MinetestBot PilzAdam: 06-16 05:42 UTC <sfan5> I don't think you can forbid distributing software licensed under GPL
14:07 * ecutruin wonders what that is a reference to..
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14:10 Krock Hi.
14:10 Krock uuh. a new notice from cameron.freenode about spamming
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14:34 Krock http://isup.me/http://servers.minetest.net/
14:34 Krock It's not just you! http://servers.minetest.net looks down from here.
14:35 Krock Not sure who I should *ping*
14:35 Krock sfan5 ^
14:36 sfan5 Krock: I don't care ATM, talk to the people in -dev
14:36 Krock ah yes. Already forgot about -dev loL
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15:00 LemonLake I wonder if msoffice runs in wine
15:03 sfan5 it probably doesn't
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15:07 * nman3600 puts some music on and starts mining
15:07 nman3600 hi
15:12 jordan4ibanez joined #minetest
15:17 nman3600 hey jordan4ibanez
15:20 Zeno` office 2003 does
15:26 Vazon morning guys
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15:49 sfan5 o/ jordan4ibanez
15:49 jordan4ibanez Hello nman3600
15:49 jordan4ibanez \o sfan5
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16:03 MinetestBot Piggybear87: 06-09 04:55 UTC <Vazon> Sorry I was busy when you joined i will grant you interact tomorrow as soon as you join :)
16:05 Piggybear87 Megaf, I switched to the Nouveau driver like you suggested the other day, now I get 3 lines of render error, but it boots normally.
16:06 Megaf Piggybear87; yep, but now you may not have 3d render
16:06 Megaf now you can install the official nvidia driver
16:07 Piggybear87 I HAD the official Nvidia driver and I had to boot in recovery mode.
16:08 Piggybear87 !up minetest.org 30011
16:08 MinetestBot minetest.org:30011 seems to be down
16:08 Piggybear87 Must be moving.
16:09 Piggybear87 So... Should I switch back to Nvidia, or keep the open source and try stff like Minetest?
16:10 nman3600 Hey Krock can you restart the server
16:11 Krock k
16:11 m5 Who's in the UK?
16:11 nman3600 m5: me
16:11 m5 If you are, connect to my irc
16:11 m5 WIll be like 50ms ping
16:12 Vazon mhmm
16:12 m5 [irc.]sslv.tk
16:13 Vazon Megaf, that server is still at the top >:(
16:13 nman3600 I had a good idea for an off-topic thread last night and i can't remember it now
16:14 MichaelRpdx joined #minetest
16:15 m5 I have 322 users on my IRC!!
16:15 m5 470!!!
16:15 m5 Fucking hell this is a big botnet
16:16 m5 SEVEN HUNDRED FUCKING USERS
16:16 m5 lol spambots
16:17 grrk-bzzt joined #minetest
16:17 m5 965 stable
16:18 m5 AKA this is for testing only :P
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16:28 Piggybear87 Well, even with the render errors Minetest plays fine. I guess I will keep the open source driver for now.
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16:29 Calinou hi
16:29 Calinou Piggybear87, the proprietary driver has pretty large downsides, once you forget the performance
16:29 Calinou like, sometimes breaking on updates, having more or less huge security bugs
16:30 FreeFull The open source driver is really stable too
16:30 Calinou and non-standard ways of configuring stuff (some vendor-specific GUI)
16:30 Calinou FreeFull, Nouveau? not so stable
16:30 Calinou radeon? probably fine
16:30 FreeFull Maybe not noveau then
16:31 FreeFull The open source radeon drivers are definitely a lot more stable than the official ones
16:31 Piggybear87 Calinou, the Nvidia one makes me have to boot in recovery mode every time, but it works fine other than that. The Nouvaeu or what ever boots normally, but gives me 3 lines of render error.
16:32 Calinou FreeFull, Nouveau, not Noveau! it means “new” in French.
16:32 Calinou FreeFull, both are official
16:32 Calinou “official” is a bad term for proprietary drivers
16:33 Calinou even on the NVIDIA side… because it makes it sound like Nouveau is third party illegal crap
16:33 FreeFull illegal?
16:33 FreeFull Have graphics drivers ever been illegal?
16:33 ShadowBot joined #minetest
16:33 MinetestBot ShadowBot: 05-04 21:58 UTC <john_minetest> I want op again!
16:33 Calinou software patents 8)
16:33 Krock <3 ShadowBot
16:33 ShadowBot 04♥ Krock.
16:33 FreeFull I hate those
16:33 Calinou FreeFull, go to a country with software patents, compile Mesa/Gallium3D with S3TC texture compression and floating point textures enabled
16:34 Calinou you're running an illegal graphics stack
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16:40 nman3600 Heyo
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16:41 nman3600 Should i get item drop on my skyblock world with only these mods: unified inventory and all the default mods
16:41 nman3600 Item drop should be part of default
16:42 Piggybear87 Item drop sucks (too MineCraft like), but the auto pickup is great.
16:43 nman3600 That's all i need the auto pick up really
16:43 nman3600 How do i get just the auto pickup?
16:43 Piggybear87 Get item tweaks and disable the drop and enable the auto pick up.
16:44 nman3600 Links? Piggybear87
16:44 Calinou Carbone's item_drop is exactly what you want
16:44 Calinou one sec…
16:44 nman3600 K gotta get carbone again then
16:45 Calinou https://gitorious.org/calinou/carbone/archive/4​b5de961b8d8a014b7209fd30dd3ee0cf1100e37.tar.gz → extract the .tar.gz, get the “item_drop” mod inside
16:45 Calinou you can run it in any game, not just Carbone, like most mods
16:45 nman3600 Could i just download carbone and take out item drop? (i never use it anyway)
16:46 Calinou yes, you can, it's what I said
16:46 nman3600 I'll do that thanks!
16:46 Calinou you can 1) use Carbone as it is, 2) use another game with item_drop (take the item_drop directory inside the mods directory), 3) use Carbone without item_drop (delete item_drop)
16:47 nman3600 Calinou i need the item_drop that only has te auto pick up
16:47 Piggybear87 Still taking ideas of what mods should be in my _game. I would like it to follow a "theme", but I don't know what theme to go with.
16:47 Calinou it works like that in Carbone, despite its name
16:48 FreeFull Piggybear87: Pigbears
16:48 Piggybear87 Lmfao.
16:48 Calinou Piggybear87, in Carbone, I don't care, it's quite themeless like minetest_game would be
16:48 Calinou inspired by all Minetest versions
16:48 nman3600 Piggybear87, what sorta game mode is it?
16:49 Piggybear87 "Survival", as in PvP, non-creative inventory, claims, etc.
16:49 nman3600 multitest (for decoration and such)?
16:50 Piggybear87 Right now I just have a mashup of different mods, but it bothers me that it doesn't follow a theme.
16:50 Piggybear87 I will NOT use mobs though...
16:52 Calinou why not?
16:52 Calinou they aren't too slow if done properly
16:52 nman3600 I hate mobs
16:53 Piggybear87 I might go with a theme I was thinking of. Super Survival. When you die, you lose your stuff (like bones), but there are no bones, you just lose your shiznit.
16:53 nman3600 YES ITEM_DROP WORKS JUST HOW I WANTED
16:53 Krock evil ^
16:53 Piggybear87 >:)
16:53 m5 http://s30.postimg.org/pl976czjl/Screenshot_45.png
16:53 * Krock checks for updates.....
16:54 Calinou updates of what?
16:54 Krock system updates
16:54 Krock #haxedwin5.1updates
16:56 Calinou today I learned GIMP can export to ASCII art
16:56 Piggybear87 Nice.
16:56 Calinou ;=;::===
16:56 Calinou ;:=:==::
16:56 Calinou ;=:=;:;;
16:56 Calinou =:;:=:;=
16:56 Calinou this is a part of the new bedrock texture
16:57 Krock 3 new updates - yeah!
16:57 * sfan5 purrs at Calinou
16:58 nman3600 Calinou: How'd you export to ASCII art in gimp?
17:00 Calinou woah, game tried to load a texture while it was being OptiPNG'd, got a “missing texture” error
17:00 Calinou nman3600, export the image as .txt :)
17:00 Calinou there are many possibilities, choose the first one
17:00 nman3600 k thanks
17:00 Calinou got a new pretty bedrock texture in, tweaked dirt
17:00 nman3600 I recently started using gimp anyways :) don't know much about it
17:03 Piggybear87 nman3600, It's easy as 3.14159265359
17:03 nman3600 ?
17:03 Piggybear87 That's pi.
17:03 nman3600 Fuck off
17:03 Piggybear87 Whoa! Why did you say that?
17:03 nman3600 Yes
17:04 Calinou Piggybear87, you know 10 decimals, just like me :)
17:04 Calinou wait, I only know 10, you said 11
17:04 Piggybear87 I googled. Lol.
17:04 Piggybear87 I only know 3.14...
17:05 Piggybear87 nman3600, that wasn't an insult, why did you tell me to fuck off?
17:06 Piggybear87 I just said Gimp is easy as pi (pie) to use.
17:06 nman3600 Piggybear87 i don't understand pi
17:06 nman3600 i'm 10 years old mate!
17:07 nman3600 oh and i can't find .txt to export the file to
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17:07 Piggybear87 It was a play on words. I said 3.14159265359 which is pi as the word "pie" to be funny.
17:13 sfan5 ow https://technet.microsoft.co​m/library/security/ms14-031+
17:13 sfan5 s/+/
17:13 sfan5 ah damnit
17:13 sfan5 https://technet.microsoft.co​m/library/security/ms14-031
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17:24 Calinou http://paste.ubuntu.com/7653998/ → this doesn't work :( I added the steel block as a ore_block = 1
17:24 Calinou nvm
17:25 SmugLeaf joined #minetest
17:25 SmugLeaf joined #minetest
17:25 CWz left #minetest
17:30 asie joined #minetest
17:35 Krock sfan5, "Dieses Sicherheitsupdate wird für alle unterstützten Editionen von Windows V...1 als Hoch eingestuft." - yay! not for win XP /rolleyes
17:35 Krock wh. server 2003 is not on the list - possibly, it's not a win xp leak
17:41 * Calinou is working on item frames and areal ocks
17:41 Calinou area locks*
17:42 * Krock throws simple_protection at Calinou
17:43 Calinou it's based on a rewrite of protector mod
17:45 Calinou 25 × 25 × 25 area, a nice way to preview the area, ability to add several players
17:45 Calinou crafted with 8 brick blocks and 1 ore block of your choice
17:45 Calinou (except coal block and diamond block)
17:46 alexxs joined #minetest
17:46 IceCream joined #minetest
17:46 Krock is mese an ore?
17:48 q66 joined #minetest
17:48 sfan5 Krock: yes
17:48 rubenwardy joined #minetest
17:48 Calinou doesn't count as ingot_block
17:49 Calinou you can use any ingot_block, which is copper, tin, silver, gold, iron, bronze
17:49 Calinou only use of silver currently :P
17:49 Krock mithril?
17:50 nore joined #minetest
17:50 Calinou no mithril in Carbone, it's not counted as ingot_block anyway
17:55 phantombeta joined #minetest
18:01 Piggybear87 !up minetest.org 30011
18:01 MinetestBot minetest.org:30011 seems to be down
18:07 caveminer joined #minetest
18:07 jp__ joined #minetest
18:08 Calinou the protection stuff works pretty nicely, did tests
18:08 Calinou overlap check works
18:10 caveminer
18:11 m5 Is anyone in the UK, specifically England?
18:14 rubenwardy I am
18:14 Calinou m5, don't ask to ask, just ask
18:14 m5 idk how I would do that
18:14 m5 I started an IRC network where people in the UK get like 50ms ping
18:14 m5 [irc.]sslv.tk
18:15 Krock WTF... max_lag rises every minute..no idea why
18:15 Krock it's working fine with 8 players and it gets worse and worse
18:15 Piggybear87 !up minetest.org 30012
18:15 MinetestBot minetest.org:30012 seems to be down
18:15 Krock which server is that? - ^
18:15 Piggybear87 Vazon's
18:16 Krock Vazon!
18:16 Piggybear87 All minetest.org ones are down.
18:17 Krock use minetest.net??
18:17 m5 rubenwardy, Could you ping-test it please?
18:17 Krock nvm
18:17 Krock .org exists
18:17 Piggybear87 No, minetest.org hosts some servers.
18:18 Piggybear87 LandRush and Vazon's to name a few.
18:18 Megaf Calinou: I had one idea of mod, or adition to some mod. Tea!
18:18 Megaf Calinou: Team made out of weed
18:19 tomreyn joined #minetest
18:19 * Piggybear87 likes that.
18:19 Megaf so a mug need to be created
18:19 Krock that all all seem to run over old coder's site
18:19 Piggybear87 Gives weeds an effing use.
18:19 Megaf each mug could have like 20 uses
18:19 Krock <Megaf>Calinou: Team made out of weed
18:19 Krock aha
18:19 Megaf and each use could restores half heart
18:19 Krock I'll use eed to make tams nexttime
18:19 Krock *weed
18:19 Krock *teams
18:19 Megaf I mean, tea
18:19 Krock *next time
18:20 Megaf s/Team made out/Tea made out
18:20 Krock interesting tea
18:20 Krock maybe it contains some parts of drugs
18:20 Piggybear87 Krock, OldCoder's data center is supposed to be moving, that may be why the servers are down.
18:21 Krock ahh
18:21 Krock possible
18:21 Piggybear87 Yep.
18:21 Megaf damn, I can't open IRC at my workplace, I will alway start laughing when I read this channel and coworkeds will keep staring at me
18:22 m5 lol
18:22 Krock I didn't get it
18:22 Krock You laught cuz it doesn't open and the coworkers stare at you?
18:23 * markv takes and groups
18:23 Vazon Yes??
18:23 OldCoder Piggybear87, this is the case
18:23 Krock no no - the coworkers start laughing because the workspace does not stare at opened IRC
18:23 markv Oh Hi OldCoder
18:23 OldCoder Should have been only an hour but my host wanted to try something
18:23 OldCoder I am reviewing status now
18:24 Piggybear87 OldCoder, It IS in the process of moving?
18:24 Vazon Thats fine, I'm going to start reviewing all of my mods and find out what is causing the my server to have such a big media
18:24 Enke joined #minetest
18:25 Vazon Krock are you there?
18:25 Krock nope
18:25 Vazon lol
18:26 Krock same question as "R U zleepin?"
18:26 Vazon Krock query
18:26 Krock query?
18:26 markv Better example: can you hear me?
18:26 markv I talk when I sleep
18:26 * OldCoder hears the song Freres Jacques
18:26 Krock markv, hmm iteresting
18:26 markv I shout too
18:27 Krock Vazon! - Vazon ist nicht da (sleeping)
18:27 Krock - Vazon is not here (sleeping)
18:28 markv OldCoder, Zymic VPS redirects to Linode
18:28 markv That's why I thought you had Linode
18:32 nore joined #minetest
18:33 Megaf !seen xyz
18:33 MinetestBot Megaf: xyz was last seen at 2014-06-12 19:02:58 UTC on ##minebest
18:33 Krock 4 days ago
18:34 Calinou New bedrock texture; added protection mod (thanks to TenPlus1), item frames mod (thanks to Zeg9); code cleanup.
18:34 Weedy joined #minetest
18:34 Weedy joined #minetest
18:34 Megaf ~seen xyz
18:34 ShadowBot Megaf: I saw xyz in #minetest 21 weeks, 6 days, 1 hour, 59 minutes, and 3 seconds ago saying "no need to tell me to "butt out" now"
18:35 Krock shadowbot was long time offline
18:35 Megaf well, xyz is actually online right now at ##minebest
18:35 Krock *clicks*
18:35 markv Quotes are wrong there
18:35 Calinou craft area locks using 8 brick blocks, with 1 ore block in the center (the locked area is 25 × 25 × 25); recipes for item frames are the same as Zeg9's mod
18:36 rubenwardy left #minetest
18:36 Weedy_ joined #minetest
18:36 Megaf woody + weed tea mod = Weedy
18:36 Krock + blood = bloody
18:37 SmugLeaf joined #minetest
18:39 Krock o.o
18:39 Vazon thats confusing
18:39 Krock yes
18:40 Krock WHY do some people put the ketchup bottle the wrong way on the table? HWHY?
18:40 Vazon Who is to say that is the wrong way? It could just as easy be the right way.
18:41 Krock the right way is, when the ketchup flows towards the outflow thingie
18:41 Vazon but then i makes a mess so then its the wrong way
18:42 Vazon but then it*
18:42 * markv forgot he scrolled up then got confused
18:42 asl joined #minetest
18:42 Enke joined #minetest
18:44 Krock why? the ketchup always must flow towards the outcome, so it's easy to push it out
18:47 FreeFull What we need is little genetically engineered mammals that produce ketchup
18:47 Megaf indeed
18:47 * Vazon turns FreeFull in to a bottle of ketchup
18:47 Vazon Done!
18:48 Megaf I'm crafting a mug in LibreOffice's Draw
18:49 Matrixiumn joined #minetest
18:49 blaise I feel like minecraft could use some kind of voip or sip
18:49 Krock sip?
18:49 Vazon Krock, it doesn't have to, you can always use a screwdriver and make a hole in the bottom
18:50 blaise but have it set up so people can only hear you that are in earshot
18:50 Krock Vazon, but then it gets dry..
18:51 Krock wait, I can use screwdriver on mode 3 and turn the ketchup face
18:51 werwerwer joined #minetest
18:51 Krock :D
18:51 Vazon xD
18:51 * Vazon wonders why we was arguing over a bottle of catsup
18:51 blaise I hate catsoup
18:51 Krock ketchup sounds better
18:51 ligeti joined #minetest
18:51 ligeti Hello :)
18:52 blaise hi.
18:52 Krock cat soup? wtf?
18:52 Vazon Krock its pronouced catsup
18:52 Krock LOL
18:52 Krock true
18:52 Krock (but only in english)
18:52 Vazon blaise why are you eating cat soup?? what did that cat do to you
18:52 Krock ^
18:52 blaise so, I suppose the volume of each person could be changed by distance?
18:52 ligeti poor cat!
18:53 Krock yummy *a very quiet MEOW comes out of the soup*
18:53 Vazon LOL
18:53 blaise Krock: I want you to go to a bulk grocery store or food distributor and buy the largest can of catsup you can find.
18:54 blaise and I want you to read the label very carefully
18:54 the-loop-digga joined #minetest
18:54 Krock H E I N Z
18:54 Krock (C)(R)(TM)
18:54 blaise please pay special attention to the allowed percentage of forign material.
18:54 Cerise joined #minetest
18:55 blaise and for fsck sake, stop eating that stuff.
18:55 Krock Tomatoes 101% ...
18:55 Vazon blaise, last I checked im sure catsoup is not it american catsup at least i hope 0.0
18:55 Krock there's a law which sais how much the minimal contents must be afaik
18:56 blaise all food that is mass produced contains somewhere between 4 and 30 percent foriegn material..
18:56 Krock hmm pretty much sugar and water but I can't find something interesting
18:56 blaise it's automation.. so it's not like there's a person there watching the whole production line
18:57 * Krock slaps blaise with HEINZ
18:57 * Vazon is creeped out about cats being in his catsup so he is going afk to get lunch
18:57 Megaf Jordach: Quite fun to create basic shapes in LivreOffice Drawn then decompose the image in several layers and use textures in GIMP
18:58 Krock PDN ftw
18:58 blaise it's mostly fly larva, not cats
18:58 blaise fyi
18:59 blaise but I'm sure there's some kind of animal to fall into the mix from time to time
18:59 blaise I've found all kinds of stuff in food...
19:00 blaise catsup is one of the things you don't see stuff in because it's ground up, boiled, and all that mess
19:01 blaise but cerial is a different story...
19:01 blaise I've found rats, whole birds, snakes, meal worms, spiders, all kinds of stuff
19:02 Krock yummy
19:02 Vazon blaise i dont know where you live but i suggest you move becuase some one is trying to get rid of you ).)
19:03 Krock ^
19:03 blaise pfft
19:03 * Krock has no fun with mobs. they're laggy. client is laggy. PC is laggy.
19:04 * Krock is laggy
19:04 * Vazon hopes mobs never get added to minetest_game
19:04 Krock minetest_game doesn't add new things anyway
19:04 Vazon its just frozen for know im sure new things will be added in the future
19:05 blaise https://www.google.com/search?q=strange+stuff​+found+in+food&amp;tbm=isch&amp;tbo=u&amp;sou​rce=univ&amp;sa=X&amp;ei=nj-fU6DAA-m0sQS26oHo​Cw&amp;ved=0CBwQsAQ&amp;biw=1220&amp;bih=620
19:05 blaise Krock: check that out
19:05 Krock blaise, US.
19:06 markv sfan5, Can you remake the IRC Stats?
19:07 Krock http://c3.likes-media.com/img/a7733c​b019e8123c1ef24198bed27afb.600x.jpg
19:07 sfan5 markv: sure
19:07 Krock lol
19:07 markv markveidemanis seemed to be hated too, 8 kicks were recieved :(
19:07 blaise I particularly like the fried whole chicken head
19:08 blaise it's great
19:08 sapier joined #minetest
19:08 markv wait 477 day reporting period...
19:08 Krock hmm not releated to food - still WOW http://img.izismile.com/img/img6/20130305/640/th​e_disgusting_things_found_inside_pcs_640_03.jpg
19:08 whisk|weechat joined #minetest
19:08 markv sfan5, Could you make a database of all the actions?
19:08 Megaf Vazon: Mobs would be a great adition, it they are made properly
19:09 sfan5 markv: why?
19:09 sapier megaf mobs will never work on your pi
19:09 Megaf sapier: I'm not running mobs on my Pi anyway
19:09 markv Curious who's been kicked/opped/...
19:09 sapier mobs require cpu power the one thing you don't have there ;-)
19:09 Vazon Megaf: Current mobs look like crap if you ask me and plus they lag even the best servers
19:09 sfan5 markv: maybe later
19:09 Krock like crap?
19:09 Krock eh
19:10 Krock I think, they're already nice
19:10 sapier well you're free do provide better models ;-) I'm not a designer
19:10 sfan5 markv: ok, updated!
19:10 Vazon I don't but i cant do models ether :) im more for code not models/textures
19:10 markv During this 479-day reporting period, a total of 2014 different nicks were represented on #minetest.
19:10 markv 2014!
19:11 sapier and lag ... yes ... that's still a problem as long as mods are bound to server step
19:11 markv Never update again :P
19:11 whisk|weechat joined #minetest
19:11 sapier but lag is more related to network lag then server lag
19:11 Krock sapier, the work must be done somewhere - in MT it's the server step
19:12 sapier still some things could be done async krock
19:12 sapier e.g. pathfinding, having that information in 1 or 2 seconds is not an issue ... but delaying server step for 2 seconds IS an issue
19:12 Krock add a 2nd server stepwhich runs on a 2nd thread :3
19:12 sapier that's not possible right now
19:13 Krock oh
19:13 sapier both operate on same lua stack and same map
19:13 Vazon mobs are a bad idea, in aspect yes they are a great addition to the game but there is the lag, bad designs(personal idea), and that would make the game no longer aimed to building since angry mobs would take most of your time
19:13 sapier using those things from two threads isn't possible right now ... we're working at it but theres a lot of small and big problems to solve
19:13 Krock aagh my quote from irc stats "yummy *a very quiet MEOW comes out of the soup*"
19:14 Krock sapier, yes I see
19:14 sapier vazon that's a game decison
19:15 Vazon yes but still
19:15 sapier there's been great progress towards uncoupling mod step from server step but theres at least same amount of work to do left
19:15 Krock also mapgen seems to run on the same thread as lua..
19:15 markv Does anyone else have problems with screenshit/screenshot or shitdown/shutdown
19:15 markv shitdown -h now
19:15 sapier mods and server run in same step
19:15 Krock I have problems with screenshot. it saves an empty png file when I hit F12
19:15 sapier thus mapgen is at least bound to it by locking
19:15 markv A prime example of screenshit
19:16 Jousway joined #minetest
19:16 sapier I've read about some irrlicht issue about doing screenshots
19:16 Krock hmm, once it worked..
19:16 sapier don't expect it to work it anytime soon
19:17 sapier my personal guess is full uncoupling won't be done within the next year
19:17 sapier still some parts could be available more early
19:18 Krock very fast progress, I must say
19:18 Krock :3
19:18 Vazon people should really look at other mods before saying to fix something on another mod to have it work
19:18 Krock "windows", last used by Krock
19:18 Krock :D
19:18 sapier considering that everyone is doing this in freetime that's actually quite respectable
19:19 Krock wait - that all works without "professional paid programmmers"?
19:19 sapier of course
19:19 Krock well then
19:20 Krock much great things actually base on freetime -work
19:20 sapier hmm ok I guess some of us are professionals too but not paid to do minetest ;-)
19:21 Krock never said, there aren't free pros
19:21 Megaf I see what you didnt there
19:23 sapier does anyone know martin_devil? I'd like to know how he managed to run an arm version on a mips device ;-)
19:23 Megaf Either compiling or QEMU
19:23 Megaf lol
19:24 Krock2 joined #minetest
19:26 OldCoder joined #minetest
19:28 Vazon Hi OldCoder
19:36 ecutruin So, I read back on the discussions here.. and mobs are really nasty for server performance right now? O.o;
19:37 ecutruin They are kind of very important to me game design, so I'm curious.
19:37 Amaz They work alright on singleplayer....
19:39 ecutruin Well where's the fun in singleplayer only. xD
19:39 Piggybear87 My daughter is weird... When she's screaming the only thing that shuts her up is music. She loves Disturbed. Lol. Yep, she's mine. :)
19:40 Amaz And there is a server OldCoder is hosting that has mobs. Seems to work fine. No lag.
19:40 markv Which is why mine lags
19:40 OldCoder Amaz, Hi
19:40 Amaz Hi OldCoder!
19:41 ecutruin Amaz, hrm... OldCoder, is there anything specific about the mob mod you're using that makes it not lag?
19:42 Amaz Nope. Simple Mobs.
19:42 OldCoder ecutruin, probably not. Which world is this?
19:42 john_minetest joined #minetest
19:42 john_minetest Hello everypony
19:42 ecutruin Amaz?
19:42 * Piggybear87 facepalms... effing ponies...
19:43 Piggybear87 I need to relax for a few, I don't feel well. Back in a bit.
19:43 Amaz ecutruin: https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=11&amp;t=3063
19:44 ecutruin Thanks.  I'll make sure to remember simple mobs when I get to that point in my design.  I have quite a bit of work before then, for sure.
19:44 ecutruin There is no means in which to spawn new threads from LUA, eh?
19:44 Amaz Right!
19:44 OldCoder markv, I'm holding the two minor world changes pending start of server move. I lost a day yesterday due to an experiment by the host.
19:44 ecutruin That's unfortunate.
19:45 Amaz If you want to see the server with mobs, join minetest.org 30020
19:45 OldCoder ^ Will only be up for a few hours
19:45 Amaz Right.
19:45 OldCoder Amaz, server will be in transition again tonight
19:45 Amaz Okay, that's fine.
19:46 OldCoder It gets loaded onto a truck tomorrow but will be running on a clone system
19:46 Amaz Interesting!
19:46 OldCoder I've held the update FishyWET asked for for the same reason
19:46 OldCoder It should all be sorted out shortly
19:46 Amaz Okay, he's away for now. Thanks!
19:46 john_minetest Lol, I'm no pony
19:46 OldCoder ^ He is simply pony tolerant
19:47 OldCoder Tolerant is good
19:47 ecutruin I'm trying to log on to take a look
19:47 OldCoder Go ahead
19:47 ecutruin Be good to see how a server-client works as well
19:47 Amaz Might take a while with the media...
19:47 OldCoder I have a fast client for Windows
19:47 OldCoder That will load it instantly
19:47 OldCoder Or should
19:47 OldCoder But the client is about 70MB in size
19:48 ecutruin Coming from the MC modding community, MT is a different monster.. but I need an alternative platform with all these restrictions Mojang is wanting to place on people.
19:48 OldCoder ecutruin, explain please
19:48 OldCoder We are interested
19:49 ecutruin Mojang is stopping servers from selling any kind of pay2win features.. no XP boosts, kits, etc.
19:49 OldCoder Is this legal? Explain
19:49 OldCoder It is a grey area
19:49 ecutruin They are amending their EULA to actually make it illegal.
19:49 OldCoder I don't think they can make it "illegal"
19:49 OldCoder They can only call it a "license violation"
19:50 OldCoder But this is positive news for MT I think
19:50 OldCoder ecutruin, MC is free to do what they can to boost their income
19:50 OldCoder But I anticipate more MC users will review alternatives such as MTZ
19:50 OldCoder MT *
19:51 OldCoder Hm. Would MTZ be a sort of MT for DBZ fans?
19:51 * OldCoder imagines power blasts cutting down forests
19:51 caveminer joined #minetest
19:53 ecutruin I plugged MT when I made my post on the issue on the forums.
19:53 john_minetest left #minetest
19:53 OldCoder All right. Best to be non-argumentative in that mode. MT is presently aiming for coexistence. But, in the end, MT may own the sector.
19:54 OldCoder Just as gcc wiped out most commercial compilers two decades ago.
19:54 OldCoder In the end, it isn't solely about money. People do not like to be locked in.
19:54 OldCoder Telling people they can't put moustaches on characters in MC if they wish to...
19:54 OldCoder This won't fly
19:54 OldCoder
19:55 Jordach fix yer newlines OldCoder
19:55 OldCoder Jordach, Hm?
19:55 Jordach you'll occasionally drop a newline in
19:55 OldCoder You know that I use blank lines for two sensible purposes, Jordach
19:55 OldCoder #1 To end a paragraph on a particular subject
19:55 Jordach you can't consider using shift + enter to create a new line?
19:55 OldCoder #2 To show that I am listening to somebody but have nothing to add
19:55 OldCoder Hm? Wait; testing
19:55 ecutruin Oh of course, I was basically just more like.. I'm moving on because I want more control over what I do.. and I encouraged servers that need that to look into alternatives as well.
19:56 OldCoder Jordach, that doesn't work in my client
19:56 Jordach hm
19:56 ecutruin Yeah, Mojang also specifically denies giving away capes.. either for free or paid.
19:56 OldCoder ecutruin, Please have fun and we will assist to the extent possible. Build something interesting and I will host.
19:56 OldCoder What are capes?
19:56 * OldCoder Googles (tm)
19:57 ecutruin Heh.
19:57 ecutruin I hope I can build fun stuff..
19:57 OldCoder Absolutely
19:57 OldCoder We have had people do all sorts of things
19:57 OldCoder They don't always work out but people get their chance to try
19:57 OldCoder Sometimes what they try does fly
19:57 OldCoder <- Rhymes sometimes
19:58 OldCoder Wish to talk in-game and IRC simultaneously? Mod it!
19:58 OldCoder Wish flying strips of bacon? No problem
19:58 Jordach OldCoder, that modn already exists on linux boxes
19:58 OldCoder The bacon mod?
19:59 OldCoder IRC? I know about that; Kaeza and I need to discuss fixes
19:59 OldCoder ShadowNinja might host the next set of channels
20:00 ecutruin OldCoder, well I was a content designer in the MC modding community, so I already got a handle on the concepts.. but.. MT has some pretty nasty limitations in some areas.
20:00 OldCoder Those will need to be addressed
20:00 OldCoder At the same time, there are some innovations, I think
20:01 Amaz I what areas just of of interest?
20:01 OldCoder ecutruin, ^
20:01 ecutruin What area of interest do I have?  I want to create an entirely new game. ^-^ Built on a block engine.
20:02 ecutruin I've posted this around a bit, but here's some models I created when messing around with the art program I use currently - https://www.dropbox.com/sh/c​xi9vzdzmk6ywpa/6NDGwDrWBl#/
20:02 ecutruin But.. overall my goal is to create a survival minecraft like experience without GUIs and with more involved gameplay.
20:03 Amaz No, I was asking were Minetest is limited. Badly phased on my part!
20:03 Amaz And that sounds awesome!
20:05 ecutruin Ah.. yeah.. mob positioning prediction on the client seems really bad..  I noticed on the server I couldn't click the mobs sometimes because they wouldn't be where my client was showing them.
20:05 ecutruin That's bothersome.
20:05 Amaz Yep.
20:05 ecutruin Not being able to use mesh's for nodes is bothersome.
20:05 Amaz But that may be to do with the mod...
20:05 Jordach ecutruin, apparently that workbench with blocks you manually insert was nice
20:05 Amaz That is going to be done, I think...
20:05 ecutruin Not being able to dynamically generate node-models is bothersome (no multipart from Minecraft like features).
20:08 ecutruin There is a lot of nice things though, the LuaJIT compiled client does run quite well (the regular client I've noticed issues with), modding doesn't involve diving into core backend garbage I don't want to care about, and I can actually use normal 3D model animations with entities (and eventually nodes).
20:10 tredory joined #minetest
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20:14 proller joined #minetest
20:25 Jordach ecutruin, if ever RealBadAngel actually does as he's been told
20:25 Jordach ;)
20:26 ecutruin Hehe.
20:29 LemonLake joined #minetest
20:30 lemonlake_ joined #minetest
20:32 jin_xi joined #minetest
20:32 ecutruin This weekend, I'll start working on some of the concepts I want.. and hopefully I can make something that works. xD
20:33 lemonlake_ gonna start the block hud mod
20:33 lemonlake_ but I can see it lagging out servers
20:34 ecutruin block hud? O.o;
20:34 lemonlake_ hover over a block to see what it is, an icon of it and what mod its from
20:35 lemonlake_ I'll start with the basics tho
20:36 ecutruin So you're remaking Walia for MT? XD
20:37 lemonlake_ Walia?
20:37 nman3600 joined #minetest
20:37 lemonlake_ wasdat?
20:37 Jordach what am i looking at
20:38 nman3600 OldCoder: Why do i no longer have fly and noclip on mark's sevrer?
20:38 nman3600 server*
20:38 lemonlake_ Oh wow
20:38 lemonlake_ Never knew about that, ecutruin, looks cool!
20:38 OldCoder nman3600, ? I didn't change anything
20:38 lemonlake_ I just wanted it because I really wanted to know what some blocks were
20:38 OldCoder Ask markv if he did
20:38 nman3600 he's not online
20:38 lemonlake_ He is.
20:38 nman3600 oh he is
20:38 lemonlake_ He always is
20:38 OldCoder nman3600, if you had it before and he doesn't object, you can have it
20:39 nman3600 OldCoder, I had it before yes
20:39 OldCoder nman3600, speak with markv and let me know if you can't get him in a day or two
20:39 ecutruin lemonlake_, hehe.  I am a designer from the Minecraft community moving on due to Mojang's latest attitude.  So yeah.. I see a lot of parallels in what people are making for MT.
20:39 lemonlake_ Whoa Walia is pretty cool
20:39 lemonlake_ ecutruin: I genuinely didn't know about that, please don't say I'm ripping it off :P
20:39 ecutruin Naw.
20:39 nman3600 OldCoder, he's away currently
20:40 lemonlake_ Its a really useful thing though, so I can see why people would want it
20:40 ecutruin I was going to do it myself for my project anyways.
20:40 lemonlake_ Oh?
20:40 * ecutruin nods.
20:40 lemonlake_ Great minds think alike :P
20:40 lemonlake_ I'm still making it, I'm bored as hell :P
20:40 jin_xi problem is people making mods... when there should really be more proper games. imho modstore needs to stay blank and make room for game store
20:40 ecutruin I don't plan on using GUIs for inventory or anything beyond game menu and hud.. so I need some means in which to inform the player about things.
20:41 lemonlake_ jin_xi: I WAS working on ace of spades for MT but I got bored of it
20:41 nman3600 Guess i'l have to wait for mark (it'll be best now because i need it)
20:41 jin_xi i know
20:41 jin_xi i mean i know how long it gets
20:41 jin_xi i abandoned my own attempt at a full game long ago
20:42 ecutruin What we need is content unique to MT.
20:42 lemonlake_ It's a struggle, especially when doing it from scratch.
20:42 lemonlake_ I know, ecutruin but the MC community has practically done everything
20:42 ecutruin Not duplications of MC modpacks, or other games.. complete concepts made by this community for this community.
20:42 lemonlake_ It's difficult to come up with unique ideas
20:42 ecutruin I've done it.
20:42 ecutruin Multiple times. ^-^
20:42 lemonlake_ But I think it'll take just one REALLY big idea to spark an entire new tree of great ideas
20:42 lemonlake_ Unique thinsg
20:42 lemonlake_ Also,
20:43 Amaz Yeah, unique content is needed...
20:43 LemonLake So the block hover idea is pointless?
20:43 ecutruin I'm responsible to getting Elo to make Redpower's frames.  I created Ender Storage as an alternative to teleport pipes.  I created on-block crafting in Translocators.  And now, I'm working on Redux.
20:43 ecutruin LemonLake, not at all.  Its a useful feature. :3
20:43 LemonLake Okay then, it should be a simple mod in theory
20:43 ecutruin Besides, I think anyone should make what they want to make.
20:43 LemonLake Yeah.
20:44 ecutruin I just think as a community, we need some content that doesn't blatently seem like duplicating MC modpacks for free.
20:44 OldCoder nman3600, I could update your privs but I'd rather not; my server is moving like, today
20:44 LemonLake Back to the man-cave, http://dev.minetest.net/Category:Methods
20:44 LemonLake Wise words, ecutruin
20:44 OldCoder nman3600, see markv and me over the next couple of days. And thank you for the mod update.
20:45 OldCoder markv has merged your copy and his
20:45 OldCoder It will be installed soon
20:45 nman3600 OldCoder, Also my creative priv is gone
20:45 ecutruin Because right now, I can guarantee serious modders are going to see MT as someone's attempt to get free Minecraft and not move here.  Especially when they have more flexibility code-wise with MC.  I'd be hard pressed to get Azanor to come make MT content, for instance.
20:46 ecutruin I was trying to get another modder from MC to join MT, but he ran into FPS issues right away.. and that turned him off.
20:46 LemonLake ecutruin: What we REALLY need is active devs who are always pressing to expand
20:47 LemonLake The Lua API could be vastly improved, and there are so many suggestions which are needed but just getting shaken off by devs being lazy.
20:47 ecutruin LemonLake, I agree.. but that'll only happen if there is people that push for that.  We need communities like Feed the Beast.. large modpacks with youtuber support, etc.
20:47 LemonLake I have however ditched MC modding simply due to how complicated forge has become.
20:47 LemonLake Yes.
20:48 LemonLake But the biggest problem is that Minecraft has already happened. We're not going to get big youtubers playing this game and not being hated greatly for it.
20:48 ecutruin I wouldn't be so sure.
20:48 LemonLake This game has so much potential, though. Some improvements and I'm certain it can surpass that game.
20:48 ecutruin I may even be able to get DW20 to spotlight my creation.
20:48 Amaz Yep...
20:48 * Amaz likes mgv5
20:49 ecutruin I do play on ForgeCraft with him, and JadedCat, and many of the other big mod streamers/youtubers.
20:49 OldCoder ecutruin, hang on. Reviewing your points.
20:49 OldCoder <ecutruin> Because right now, I can guarantee serious modders are going to see MT as someone's attempt to get free Minecraft and not move here.  Especially when they have more flexibility code-wise with MC.  I'd be hard pressed to get Azanor to come make MT content, for instance.
20:49 ecutruin If we could make something that was just visually stunning and really fun to play.. I have no doubt we could get streamers/youtubers to play.
20:50 OldCoder "Get free MC" ? It is not stealing MC; this is an independent project.
20:50 LemonLake Jordach raised a good point
20:50 LemonLake One thing that make the textures look weird is the fact that we have hard-coded normals, I'm not really sure how to explain it
20:50 OldCoder Is the objection that MT is seen as trying to "steal" from MC? Thought this was settled 2 years ago.
20:50 LemonLake It's a thing I ran into when previously making a game, thoguh
20:50 Jordach eh?
20:50 LemonLake If you have a node with a plain white texture, and look at the sides, they'll all be lighted differently.
20:50 ecutruin OldCoder, sure.. I get that, OldCoder, but the MC community won't see it that way with how it is right now.  Look at the current Youtube videos for MT.  They aren't exactly impressive visually when compared to say nearly most MC let's plays.
20:51 LemonLake Instead of having an efficient lighting engine, we rely on hard-coded lightness per-face.
20:51 Jordach the same*
20:51 LemonLake That's just a small change though. Nevermind that.
20:52 Amaz +ecutruin
20:52 alexxs joined #minetest
20:52 LemonLake Okay, when I can figure out how pointed_things work I'll start node_info
20:53 jp__ joined #minetest
20:53 ecutruin I'm sure there is also the issue for bringing moddeers here of going from having very few restrictions on what you can code.. to being limited to the Lua API or forking the engine.  However, I think for most things.. the current engine does let you do it if you think creatively.
20:54 LemonLake Yep.
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20:54 LemonLake I think we really need client-side and server-side separated scripting.
20:54 ecutruin Like my suggestion to V earlier on how to potentially fix her visual glitchiness with her pipes.
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20:54 SmugLeaf joined #minetest
20:54 LemonLake dayumm dat joinspam
20:55 Amaz Yep. Client side api is needed!
20:55 LemonLake It would greatly reduce server-lag and improve features possible with mods and the api.
20:56 Amaz Yeah.
20:56 ecutruin LemonLake, it would definitely be a benefits.  Also being able to rotated entities on horizonal would be good, being able to move entities over time, versus just move them (meaning they would be able to be predicted by the client without needing client scripting), there are tons of things MT could use.
20:56 ecutruin Honestly though, one of the biggest things IMO is that it needs a visual overhaul.
20:56 LemonLake But the devs are just too busy.
20:56 ecutruin The game menus should look like game art, instead of stock forms, etc.
20:57 ecutruin LemonLake, of course.  I don't fault them at all.
20:57 LemonLake This would make the game more visually appealing, thus expanding the community.
20:57 ecutruin This engine is impressive.
20:57 LemonLake Then, when we've got a lot of supporters, more experienced coders might come in and help out the devs.
20:57 LemonLake Then, we can move onto things like client-side scripts.
20:57 jin_xi i think MT needs a mailing list. irc is not suitable for long term constructive work imho
20:58 ecutruin jin_xi, I think forum/irc are quite good enough to be honest.
20:58 LemonLake ^
20:58 Amaz ^^
20:58 jin_xi i dont think so
20:58 Amaz Why not?
20:58 ecutruin A mailing list is just a forum done via email..
20:58 LemonLake They work. There's no reason to make a big change and make it more complicated.
20:58 ecutruin I don't see how it would really benefit anything more.
20:59 LemonLake Yep.
20:59 Amaz Yep/
20:59 jin_xi mailing list has better signal to noise ratio
20:59 LemonLake If anything, it'd just make things more difficult for everyone.
20:59 Amaz ^
20:59 jin_xi i think no serious discussion about engine development happens on MT forums
20:59 Amaz Github.
21:00 LemonLake Github is for things like suggestions. IRC is fine for discussions.
21:00 jin_xi to easy for quick reply aka shit replys to even try bothering
21:00 Amaz Mailing list makes things very complicated.
21:00 LemonLake mt-dev is the real channel for this, but they don't really like noise.
21:00 jin_xi yes and rightly so
21:00 Amaz *but they really don't like noise!
21:00 Amaz (Would be better imo)
21:00 LemonLake All the devs are usually in this channel anyway, so they're probably seeing this.
21:00 jin_xi but how are you gonna talk about something complex on irc, debating multiple points per posting
21:01 LemonLake Because it's instant.
21:01 LemonLake It's just like having a group conversation. And that's how stuff goes well.
21:01 LemonLake People would get together at a meeting point and just discuss.
21:01 LemonLake That's what IRC nowadays is.
21:01 jin_xi its just my opinion and i say it on #minetest like once a year :(
21:02 ecutruin I just don't see how a mailing list offers any benefit over a forum.. especially if you have e-mail notification of forum.  The issue moreso, I think, is we need more core engine developers period.  The ones we have are amazing.. but if we want more features, faster, we need more people skilled enough to make them.. and that's not me. xD
21:02 LemonLake I really want to core dev, but I really dislike git especially github, and I don't understand the codebase.
21:03 jin_xi take it slow
21:03 ecutruin I could do art, and scripting, but I'm not a core engine developer.  That's why I plan on starting on content design this weekend to give people some awesome visuals.  However, core visuals should change to be more game-like eventually.
21:03 LemonLake But like you said, we should do some visual overhauls. Attract more people, higher chance to get new core devs. Then we can actually do some work.
21:03 LemonLake +ecutruin
21:03 LemonLake ninja'd
21:03 jin_xi ^
21:04 Amaz +ecutruin & LemonLake
21:04 LemonLake and jin_xi, eventually we come to a conclusion.
21:04 LemonLake A quick one at that, faster than email.
21:05 jin_xi idk, sooo many things get said here and are basically lost
21:05 ecutruin I think the core game should also be overhauled eventually (which I understand would take a lot of work and planning, so no time soon) to make it into its own thing.  I'm not sure what that thing should be as my ideas are probably too harsh for most people.
21:05 LemonLake But then I can't really see the core devs sinking in to actually do this all, at least not in a few months.
21:06 ecutruin Basically, I'm going to try help the community by trying to create some awesome content and get it put in the public eye.  It'll take awhile, and I'll probably have difficulties, but here's hoping it works in the end.
21:07 LemonLake Hopefully.
21:07 LemonLake <jin_xi> take it slow
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21:07 Amaz Great!
21:08 LemonLake ecutruin: what would be better for node_info? pointed_thing.above or pointed_thing.under
21:08 jin_xi idk, sooo many things get said here and are basically lost
21:08 jin_xi ^ also in -dev
21:09 ecutruin I have no clue what either of those do right now, LemonLake, I litterally haven't touched a single line of Lua for MT yet.
21:09 LemonLake http://dev.minetest.net/pointed_thing
21:12 LemonLake I think .under
21:12 jin_xi me too from looking at that page
21:13 LemonLake I think .above is the node that it's hovering at
21:13 LemonLake and .under is the node that's highlighted
21:18 ecutruin Definitely under then.
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21:41 Piggybear87 OldCoder, I've crashed out 4 times now from a segmentation fault. Is this on my end or yours?
21:41 ligeti joined #minetest
21:42 Piggybear87 My terminal just says "Segmentation fault (core dumped".
21:42 Piggybear87 (core dumped)"*
21:45 Exio4 joined #minetest
21:47 ligeti good people ... "this is sort of off topic" but ... anyway, I updated my linux and now I can't run startx! ...
21:48 ligeti says it is unknown command
21:48 ligeti and now I can't play :(
21:49 ligeti my options are limited to "hang myself", "kill myself" or "shoot myself" ...
21:49 LemonLake How can I get the pointed_thing of a player?
21:49 Amaz Have you got minetest installed?
21:50 Amaz ^ ligeti
21:50 ligeti Amaz: problem is with linux and now minetest ...
21:50 ligeti I have the game installed and running for a while now (couple of weeks)
21:51 Amaz Try typing minetest in... Should run!
21:51 ligeti but because of a stupid update... something went REALLY wrong
21:51 Amaz As for startx...
21:51 Amaz Not sure.
21:51 ligeti the game can't run if I am not running X11 (gnome)
21:51 Amaz Hm.
21:51 ligeti nothing visual can run
21:52 ligeti no GUI at all!
21:52 Amaz Is X11 running?
21:52 Amaz *installed
21:52 ligeti nop
21:52 ligeti yes
21:52 Amaz Odd.
21:52 ligeti true!
21:52 ligeti :(
21:52 Amaz Ubuntu-deriritive?
21:52 ligeti debian (Kali)
21:53 ligeti and the IRC channel of Kali is full of Zombies -.-
21:53 ligeti lol
21:53 Amaz http://www.kalilinux.net/community/threads/no-g​ui-kali-starts-with-a-full-screen-bash-startx-d​oes-not-work-i-have-also-tried-typing-gdm3.453/
21:54 Amaz Any good?
21:54 ligeti I can't open that ... I have no GUI
21:54 Amaz Ahhhh.
21:54 ligeti only terminal
21:54 Amaz Command line irc?
21:54 ligeti :(
21:54 ligeti yes lol
21:54 ligeti weechat
21:59 FreeFull joined #minetest
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22:22 grrk-bzzt joined #minetest
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22:42 ligeti Hello :)
22:48 ecutruin o/
22:55 MinetestBot GIT: maciej.kasatkin@o2.pl commited to minetest/minetest: L-systems treegen code tweaks. 9f46cb6745 2014-06-17T00:55:04+02:00 http://git.io/E4J6bQ
22:57 MinetestBot GIT: maciej.kasatkin@o2.pl commited to minetest/minetest: Improved faces shading with and without shaders. a0f78659f3 2014-06-17T00:56:17+02:00 http://git.io/VDDnPQ
23:08 LiveEvil joined #minetest
23:19 ligeti I think I will remove Kali and Windows and install Mint -.- (even though I am not a fan of Ubuntu...)
23:19 RealBadAngel go for xubuntu
23:20 ligeti I think I will do Mint, it seems to be VERY stable!
23:20 ligeti and secure...
23:20 RealBadAngel its pretty stable, im using 12.04 for quite a long time already
23:20 Exio4 debian \o/
23:20 RealBadAngel and this box is even rarely shut down
23:21 jin_xi Taoki: re issue 1275
23:21 jin_xi this is from asserts because an index is too large
23:21 ligeti Exio4: ... Debian has mental issues lol (I am a big fan of Debian)
23:22 Taoki jin_xi: I use normal values for the function, so it's clearly a bug
23:22 jin_xi for a simple fix with if the last or first item could be returned
23:22 ligeti I had my Kali on for about a month... but a stupid upgrade destroied everything (x-window is not starting)
23:27 Exio4 ligeti: install elinks
23:28 Exio4 (a must for systems, in case of crash, IRC, Browsers, Image viewers, mocp/mplayer (music in background makes everything better), and a PDF reader
23:28 Exio4 obviously with screen/tmux :D
23:28 LiveEvil joined #minetest
23:30 ligeti hmmmm
23:30 ligeti Exio4: thanks for the hint :)
23:31 OnceOver joined #minetest
23:32 ligeti btw I was trying to make a ... IRC/Minetest bot!
23:33 ligeti the bot will echo the chat in IRC channel (a private one of course)
23:33 ligeti and vice versa
23:33 Hirato joined #minetest
23:33 ligeti I checked the protocol ... (for the chat)
23:34 ligeti and... it is not easy to do (but doable)
23:34 ligeti because of the sequence number
23:34 ligeti devs will understand what I mean
23:35 OnceOver hey =)
23:35 ligeti hi
23:35 OnceOver i got a question =)
23:35 ligeti really? :D
23:35 OnceOver can you attempt to help me ligeti =)
23:35 ligeti sure!
23:35 ligeti I will try my best
23:36 OnceOver k well i wanna connect to the other chat like this on a irc for my phone
23:36 OnceOver but i am confused why certain chat is on #minetest on another irc very confusing
23:37 ligeti ...
23:37 ligeti what client are you using?
23:37 OnceOver k on this one http://webchat.inchra.net/ if you put #minetest it shows ingame chat
23:37 OnceOver which is what i want on my phone
23:37 ligeti checking
23:38 ligeti hmmmm
23:38 OnceOver my mind is boggled about how this is possible lol
23:39 ligeti the server is InchraNet
23:39 ligeti channel name is #minetest
23:39 ligeti this is a private server I think
23:39 ligeti OnceOver: try to set the server to InchraNet
23:39 ligeti and then join #minetest
23:40 OnceOver lol
23:40 OnceOver =) i did try =)
23:40 ligeti vat? (as in what)
23:40 ligeti and?
23:40 OnceOver i don't remember the out come il try again lol
23:41 ligeti ok... but I have a question now lol
23:41 OnceOver but since then i did some kind of um something also
23:41 ligeti you said that this is the in-game chat?
23:41 OnceOver lets hear it =)
23:41 ligeti how come?
23:41 OnceOver on ther other one it is
23:42 OnceOver it might be the ChanServ bot though
23:42 ligeti you mean ShadowBot
23:42 grrk-bzzt joined #minetest
23:42 grrk-bzzt joined #minetest
23:42 OnceOver don't you see on the other channel it shows ingame chat for all the servers
23:42 ligeti o.0!!!
23:42 ligeti I see the channel
23:43 ligeti but I can't tell if it is for all servers or not
23:43 OnceOver if you go to http://webchat.inchra.net/
23:43 ligeti if so ... then this is a problem! lol
23:43 OnceOver and change channel to #minetest
23:43 ligeti I am looking
23:43 ligeti yes
23:43 OnceOver it actually shows the ingame chat
23:43 ligeti I understand
23:43 ligeti but all servers?
23:43 ligeti is it possible?
23:43 OnceOver no just the ones connected to the irc
23:43 ligeti ah I see!
23:43 MichaelRpdx joined #minetest
23:44 OnceOver like Vannesaes and onezs
23:44 ligeti I see VanessaE there :D
23:44 ligeti lol
23:44 ligeti I see!
23:44 OnceOver she is there to hover chat im sure
23:44 OnceOver irc admin allows full control from that irc
23:44 OnceOver i can change stuff on server
23:45 OnceOver cmd give and everything i could do ingame
23:45 ligeti I think (and not sure) that will Lua you can make a connection (local chat to public), I mean that you can echo the chat in-game to IRC
23:45 ligeti interesting... yet .. I don;t think that it is safe!
23:46 OnceOver =) i think that it is very confusing
23:46 ligeti true!
23:46 OnceOver i know i been close
23:46 OnceOver but yet very far lol
23:46 ligeti in fact there is no reason what so ever to merge IRC with game chat box :D
23:46 OnceOver its smart.
23:47 OnceOver can cmd shutdown allservers
23:47 OnceOver and kinda be in all servers at once
23:47 OnceOver all in that chat lol
23:47 ligeti well....
23:48 OnceOver im not sure i get the #minetest lol
23:49 ligeti I think I found something interesting!
23:49 ligeti just a second
23:50 OnceOver whats lame is this SASL business makes my life harder
23:52 OnceOver in order to connect from a phone you gotta register name but im so confused lol i register at that one and it still confuses me
23:52 OnceOver http://www.freenode.net/sasl/
23:53 ligeti I just registered my nick name... I didn't bother with SASL as I don't trust the tor network much!
23:54 OnceOver ye i got messed up on the dumb nick
23:54 OnceOver um how do you register on here? is it same as frenode?
23:55 OnceOver is it /msg NickServ REGISTER pass email
23:55 kizeren joined #minetest
23:55 ligeti did you go to #freenode and ask them to register your nickname?
23:55 ligeti if yes then just type:
23:56 ligeti this /msg nickserv identify <password>
23:56 ligeti and... make sure that you are using the same nickname you registered
23:56 ligeti using /nick <nick>
23:57 ligeti so this will register your nickname for freenode server
23:57 OnceOver is it same for all freenode?
23:57 ligeti all channels in freenode yes
23:57 ligeti you "login" just once
23:58 OnceOver im so confused what is #minetest channel if its different everywhere on freenode lol
23:58 OnceOver i thought one channel joined you to the channel end story lol
23:58 ligeti no no no it is not different ...
23:58 OnceOver http://webchat.freenode.ne​t/?channels=#minetest-mods
23:58 OnceOver on that im the only one who ever joined lol
23:59 ligeti that's #minetest-mods and not #minetest
23:59 OnceOver i /joined #minetest

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