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IRC log for #minetest, 2014-05-15

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 Megaf Vazon: That’s impressive
00:01 Vazon Megaf: What is impressive?
00:01 Megaf .9 of lag
00:02 Megaf I might try some small changes on my configuration when I get home to lower my lag
00:07 Vazon o ok
00:08 Megaf there should be better and update instructions on how to compile minetest on mac
00:13 proller joined #minetest
00:20 Vazon hey is there a easy way to put up a file for someone to download?
00:21 kaeza dropbox <3
00:22 Vazon dropbox hates me and i hate it lol i cant ever get that thing to work
00:23 Megaf Vazon: apt-get install lighttpd
00:23 Megaf then put your files in /var/www/
00:23 Vazon ok
00:24 Megaf or just use Dropbox, Google Drive, Microsoft SkyDrive, OwnCloud
00:24 Vazon Google drive works?
00:24 Megaf I really like Google Drive
00:24 kaeza inb4 google hate
00:24 Megaf but for Linux it works only on the web
00:25 Megaf no linux client
00:25 zat no promote proprietary “solutions” plz
00:26 * kaeza hugs zat
00:27 zat >///<
00:27 Megaf ok, so forget what I said
00:28 Megaf Vazon: you can host your files yourself, setup a wel server with support to php and use OwnCloud
00:28 Megaf better zat ?
00:28 zat php sux
00:29 Megaf so dont use php nor owncloud
00:29 Vazon xD poor Megaf
00:29 zat lol
00:29 Megaf gtg
00:31 blaise did someone highlight me?
00:31 blaise megafk
00:32 blaise and I just missed him/her/it
00:32 blaise damn
00:32 blaise had to go shopping
00:34 Vazon left #minetest
00:35 Vazon joined #minetest
00:35 Vazon wrong button
00:36 e1z0 joined #minetest
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00:51 The_Beast Hey
00:54 zat someone knows if its possible to make minetest respawn players close to their death location rather than in the same point always?
00:57 blaise yes
00:57 blaise you have to set your home
00:57 * blaise pokes zat
00:57 blaise zat: further more, it wont respon you when you die, but you can click the return home button and be teleported back there
00:57 zat ¡¡oh yeah!!
00:58 blaise :)
00:58 zat eh, I understand... but I dont think that the respawn point should be replaced with the users home.
00:58 zat Just saying.
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01:07 blaise I don't either
01:07 blaise and it's not
01:07 blaise but you can teleport home if you set a home location
01:08 blaise I believe it will teleport you back to default spawn location if you don't set it
01:08 blaise I don't remember fore sure though
01:10 Megaf back
01:10 Megaf Hi blaise
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01:39 Megaf VanessaE: There should be a good USB NIC somewhere
01:40 Megaf one that do stuff on its own
01:42 Piggybear87 joined #minetest
01:43 VanessaE there might be, but the fundamental issue is that USB itself is CPU-hungry in many implementations
01:43 VanessaE so it doesn't matter too much if it's a NIC at the other end, or a hard disk, or whatever
01:44 Megaf hm
01:44 VanessaE if it goes through USB, it's gonna eat CPU
01:44 Megaf VanessaE: also I see a board for Raspberry Pi that gives it real USB hardware
01:45 Megaf https://www.modmypi.com/raspberr​y-pi-expansion-boards/hub-module
01:45 Megaf or maybe I missread that
01:45 Megaf these ARM board have pins to be expanded
01:45 Megaf so one could attach a real NIC direct to its CPU
01:46 Megaf and this may be quite fast then
01:47 Megaf nevermind
01:50 Megaf VanessaE: I think we could do with this NIC to host minettest server uh? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Pr​oduct.aspx?Item=N82E16833106144
01:53 Artemis3 i seriously doubt your bottleneck is at the nic
01:53 Megaf it is
01:54 Megaf because is a software NIC, if we can say that
01:54 Megaf so instead of a chip on the NIC itself is the CPU who do the magic things
01:54 Artemis3 which nic?
01:54 Artemis3 most nics have offloading properties
01:55 Artemis3 not necesarily turned on by default
01:55 Artemis3 and sometimes it is best to turn em off (when the nic can't but your cpu can
01:57 Artemis3 but all of that is moot if your link connection is slower than that
02:00 Megaf Artemis3: Thats the NIC
02:00 Megaf http://www.microchip.com/wwwprodu​cts/Devices.aspx?product=LAN9512
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02:02 Megaf Artemis3: Exotic uh?
02:02 Artemis3 usb...
02:03 Artemis3 is where your problems are
02:04 Artemis3 but i would check what linux can do with it
02:04 Megaf Artemis3: actually, thats no my NIC
02:04 Megaf hold on
02:04 Artemis3 ...
02:04 Megaf Artemis3: thats the nick on one of my servers yes
02:05 Megaf but not the one Im having problem with
02:05 Artemis3 try ethtool
02:05 Artemis3 to get/set offloading parameters
02:08 VanessaE didn't I say hours ago that this chipset probably lacks DMA capability and so it's gonna be a CPU hog?
02:09 Megaf Artemis3:
02:09 Megaf rx-vlan-offload: off [fixed]
02:09 Megaf tx-vlan-offload: off [fixed]
02:10 BrandonReese joined #minetest
02:10 Megaf paste.debian.net/99623/
02:10 Megaf http://paste.debian.net/99623/
02:12 Megaf VanessaE: The Raspberry Pi have DMA
02:12 Megaf I believe the ODroid U3 have it too
02:12 VanessaE on the USB ports?
02:12 VanessaE I doubt it, if it's using that much CPU
02:16 Megaf both Pi and ODroid use the same NIC
02:16 VanessaE the smae chip sure
02:16 VanessaE same*
02:17 VanessaE but the interface inside the hardware may be totally different
02:18 Megaf This is the ODroid U3 [    5.054763] smsc95xx 1-2:1.0: eth0: register 'smsc95xx' at usb-s5p-ehci-2,
02:18 Megaf Pi [    3.087825] smsc95xx 1-1.1:1.0 eth0: register 'smsc95xx' at usb-bcm2708_usb-1.1
02:18 Megaf both USB to Ethernet
02:18 VanessaE same interface and even the same driver, but the chipset seems to be different - look at the device address it gave it
02:19 VanessaE bcm2708 versus s5p
02:19 VanessaE which means something is different between the two chips
02:19 VanessaE nevertheless, both are on USB, so your chances of getting acceptable performance out of them are nearly zip I think
02:21 Megaf This is the ODroid one http://www.microchip.com/wwwprodu​cts/Devices.aspx?product=LAN9730
02:21 Megaf Pi = 9512, ODroid = 9730
02:22 VanessaE lot of marketspeak in that article
02:22 VanessaE like mentioning that USB goes up to 480 Mbps.
02:22 VanessaE (with a 10/100 NIC, how is that relevant?)
02:22 Megaf well, its also an USB hub
02:24 VanessaE brb
02:27 deltib is there any reason why the WorldEdit GUI might not work?
02:41 VanessaE depends on what "might not work"
02:50 deltib well, the GUI works, but once you've selected the thing you want to do, it doesn't do anything
02:50 deltib https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=8944 looks like I'm not the only one
02:52 OldCoder
02:52 OldCoder Announcement for Minetest people: Minerealms World is revived from the dead temporarily. It may be accessed at server minetest.org port 30012 (the port is temporary).
02:52 OldCoder A copy of Redcrab is running temporarily on port 30000
02:52 OldCoder Has been for weeks; that one will need fixes
02:53 OldCoder Latest git client is needed for both worlds. Consider these beta copies. My server relocation is not completed and the server may shut down for the move at any time.
02:53 zat Guys, any reason for remote_media setting to not do anything? I set http://localhost/ as remote_media and the game never attempts to connect to my local web server.
02:53 OldCoder Done
02:53 OldCoder BrandonReese, when you wake up, see me sometime; we were going to set up Landrush as well
02:53 OldCoder CraigyDavi, your nick seems familiar
02:54 VanessaE hey OldCoder
02:54 VanessaE "a copy of redcrab"? (30401 I suppose)
02:54 VanessaE did that one finally die?
02:55 VanessaE zat: you need to point it to the fully qualified domain AND path of the media files
02:55 VanessaE idk if it can resolve localhost, try 127.0.0.1 instead, but you need to add the path to wherever the files are stored also.
02:56 VanessaE remote_media = http://192.99.11.10/creative-survival-media/
02:56 VanessaE for example.
02:56 ShadowNinja zat: I don't think it supports a protocol specifier.
02:56 ShadowNinja But maybe it does *shrug*.
02:57 zat VanessaE: I tried 127.0.0.1 and nothing.
02:58 zat ShadowNinja: I dont know, neither works anyway.
02:58 zat How else do I debug it?
02:58 VanessaE zat: you DO have a webserver answering on localhost right?
02:58 zat VanessaE: ...
02:59 zat that was the first thing I said.
02:59 VanessaE ok I can't read :P
03:00 VanessaE lemme rephrase - the webserver you've set up actually IS running and serving from a directory containing your media files right?
03:00 zat there is no media file there
03:00 VanessaE well without putting your minetest server's images, model files, etc there, there's nothing for it to do
03:01 VanessaE the setting becomes useless then
03:01 zat that would not make a difference for the check, I expect my server to receive a lot of requests to non-existent files.
03:01 VanessaE no
03:01 VanessaE your client will query the server to see what's available
03:01 VanessaE but it won't just search for non-existent files
03:01 zat that exactly what I am expecting
03:01 zat to receive the queries
03:02 VanessaE the minetest server will tell the client what files can be sent from the media server vs. going over UDP
03:02 VanessaE but your web server should see no queries at all if there's no media in that directory
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03:02 zat you are terribly but TERRIBLY wrong here.
03:02 VanessaE um
03:03 zat the only way to know whether files are available or not is performing at least a HEAD request to the web server.
03:03 VanessaE nope.avi
03:03 VanessaE well wait
03:03 VanessaE from the minetest *server's* standpoint yeah
03:04 zat want to bet? just consider I have been professional web developer for like 10 years. :D
03:04 VanessaE but will your web server even report such events?
03:04 VanessaE I was talking about from a minetest *client* standpoint
03:04 zat my web server is reporting all requests, and confirmed by me using telnet.
03:04 zat whichever standpoint, both would access through HTTP.
03:05 VanessaE sure, in the client's case if and only if the minetestserver tells it that there are files to be downloaded from the remote media server.
03:05 VanessaE however, your point stands that the minetest server must first query the remote media server to see what can be sent
03:06 zat yes, someone should query at some point.
03:06 zat Still I think that the client should be the one querying for files.
03:06 zat though that point doesnt really matter for my issue.
03:07 VanessaE wait, is your server built with cURL support?
03:07 zat both server and client
03:08 VanessaE huh
03:08 zat server: Build info: VER=0.4.9 BUILD_TYPE=Release RUN_IN_PLACE=1 USE_GETTEXT=1 USE_SOUND=0 USE_CURL=1 USE_FREETYPE=1 USE_LUAJIT=1 STATIC_SHAREDIR=.
03:08 zat client: Build info: VER=0.4.9 BUILD_TYPE=Release RUN_IN_PLACE=0 USE_GETTEXT=1 USE_SOUND=1 USE_CURL=1 USE_FREETYPE=1 USE_LUAJIT=0 STATIC_SHAREDIR=/usr/share/minetest
03:09 VanessaE well I'm out of ideas unless somehow you got a broken build or something
03:10 zat what build you know has a working ... that thing?
03:12 VanessaE current git works fine
03:12 zat I will try it
03:12 zat both client and server to be sure
03:12 VanessaE bear in mind current git has a broken public server list
03:12 zat that sux lolol
03:13 VanessaE it'll be fixed soon
03:13 Megaf VanessaE: now on avarage the server thread uses 16% of CPU
03:13 VanessaE Megaf: better.
03:13 zat Mine drops to almost nothing when I remove moretrees and anything plants_lib dependant.
03:14 zat Someone should really integrate that functionality to the core.
03:14 zat and I mean the C++ core.
03:14 VanessaE zat: I wish.
03:14 VanessaE I did my best with those mods but I have limits :P
03:14 zat VanessaE: why wish? is there an issue?
03:14 VanessaE zat: yeah, no one wants to actually do anything about it in a way that would *gasp* actually be backward compatible.
03:15 VanessaE and it's plants_lib that is the main hog because it has to evaluate the landscape
03:15 VanessaE I can't code C++ for shit
03:15 VanessaE and plants_lib represents the extent of my Lua skills
03:15 zat how about coding for money?
03:15 VanessaE hah
03:15 zat http://instantrimshot.com/
03:16 zat C++ isnt that hard.
03:16 zat I learned like in two days lol
03:16 Megaf cool, I managed to build a tunnel and litit using mesecons with no exposed wiring
03:16 zat litit?
03:16 Megaf lit
03:16 zat lit?
03:17 VanessaE zat: it is for me.  I just can't wrap my mind around the syntax
03:17 Megaf light
03:17 zat light?
03:17 zat VanessaE: my same opinion about lua and python and similars. :D
03:17 Megaf you kidding me?
03:17 zat kidding?
03:17 VanessaE (plus I don't see much point - if I were to rewrite it as a C++ plugin, it would be rejected anyway)
03:17 zat why would it?
03:18 zat I imagine it would be a desirable feature.
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03:18 VanessaE too specific, and it would be in direct competition with the mapgen v7 biome system
03:18 VanessaE which OF COURSE is not plants_lib compatible even in the slightest
03:18 Megaf http://en.zimagez.com/zimag​e/screenshot4259456374.php
03:18 Megaf I think it looks cool
03:18 zat can v7s biome system replace plants_lib features?
03:19 zat cool?
03:19 VanessaE only partially
03:19 VanessaE the basics can be handled with mgv7's biomes
03:20 frecel joined #minetest
03:20 zat then implement the rest...
03:20 VanessaE but plants_lib implements a couple dozen controls that are not part of mgv7' system (as far as I know)
03:20 Megaf blaise: did you manage to fill you poll?
03:20 VanessaE why bother?  the two systems are incompatible and from what I've come to understand, translating between the two is not possible either.
03:20 Megaf or pool
03:21 zat is there a way plants lib can somehow transform its functionality to v7s biome “registers” when available?
03:21 zat (just guessing, not really sure on how plants_lib even works)
03:22 VanessaE only if you used the most basic of controls for temperature, land type, and humidity maybe
03:22 VanessaE and elevation
03:22 VanessaE https://github.com/VanessaE/p​lantlife/blob/master/API.txt
03:22 OldCoder VanessaE, yeh
03:23 zat I was just thinking... moretrees could just spawn saplings by v7s biomes.
03:23 VanessaE zat: it already spawns only saplings at mapgen time.
03:23 VanessaE moretrees takes nearly zero CPU these days
03:23 VanessaE it's all plants_lib
03:23 zat but doesnt it employ plants lib for that?
03:23 VanessaE but yeah, it does.
03:23 blaise what about a moretree's bubble mower type device
03:23 Megaf blaise: can you join my server please?
03:23 blaise where you can push it around and saplings will pore out of it
03:24 Megaf minetest.megaf.info 30003
03:24 blaise Megaf: sure, what's the server name
03:24 Megaf I just want to show you my piping
03:24 zat thats the thing... having moretrees use plants lib still makes it a cpu hog VanessaE.
03:24 Megaf blaise: Megaf Server V4.0
03:24 zat If its just going to spawn saplings, it shouldnt even need plants lib if v7 is being used.
03:24 blaise Megaf: yes, I managed to fill the pool, you should check it out..
03:25 Megaf cool, come and see mine then I will see yours
03:25 Megaf lol
03:25 blaise k
03:25 * VanessaE shrugs
03:25 Megaf I did not turn my pump on yet, wating for you to arive
03:25 zat super gay!
03:26 Megaf re you there yet?
03:26 Megaf are*
03:26 blaise lol, how come my server name in the public list is midnightsystems.net30000 ?!
03:26 VanessaE zat: one thing that needs worked on with plants_lib is the fact that it has to re-evaluate the land multiple times
03:27 VanessaE I need to find a way to evaluate the mapblock just once
03:27 VanessaE and evaluate it for all things that should fit in that area all in one pass
03:27 blaise so it turns out mobf causes most people to time out
03:27 VanessaE that's a big part of why it's so slow
03:27 zat I understand
03:28 blaise is there anything we can do to fix mobf timing people out on connect?
03:28 VanessaE no idea, blaise
03:29 Vazon joined #minetest
03:30 Megaf blaise: wake up ;)
03:30 blaise sorry, was summoned by the /dev/wife
03:32 WindHero joined #minetest
03:33 zat VanessaE: you have protocol specifier for remote_media in your config?
03:33 VanessaE yep
03:34 VanessaE remote_media = http://192.99.11.10/creative-survival-media/
03:34 Vazon joined #minetest
03:34 VanessaE that's how my 30000 and 30001 servers are specified.
03:35 Vazon_ joined #minetest
03:35 OldCoder Vazon, Hi
03:35 zat uh now it worked, but all requests go to the root
03:35 Vazon_ Hello
03:35 Vazon_ arg
03:35 OldCoder Vazon_, See PM
03:35 zat I mean... http://127.0.0.1/texture.png
03:35 zat no http://127.0.0.1/modname/texture/blah.png
03:35 zat is that fine?
03:36 VanessaE yeah, that's normal if you're not using the index.mth method
03:36 VanessaE or whatever the filename for that one is
03:36 VanessaE mtb?
03:36 zat idk, no idea.
03:36 VanessaE it's where you can basically bulk-copy files with full paths into the dir and specify them by their hash instead of filename
03:36 zat how do I implement that?
03:37 VanessaE lemme look it up
03:37 zat having all files in the root will sure create filename conflits, eventually I say.
03:37 WindHero considering the talk about outdated screenshots of MoonTest, I posted 4 shiney new ones.
03:38 VanessaE http://minetest.wjake.com/wiki/dev:remote-media
03:38 VanessaE zat ^^
03:38 Vazon joined #minetest
03:38 Vazon ok all better
03:38 zat ^.^
03:39 OldCoder Vazon, not quite; PM
03:39 zat Zde je přehled informací a skriptů vhodných pro zprovoznění funkce  remote-media ke zrychlení přihlašování a snížení zátěže serveru.
03:39 Vazon ..
03:39 zat Now I clearly understand all
03:39 zat it really makes all sense now
03:39 VanessaE sorry, just look at the scripts below
03:39 zat lol
03:40 VanessaE no clue why that isn't available in english
03:41 zat I would just: find -type f | grep -iE "\.(png|ogg|xcf|x)$" | xargs -d"\n" cp -t DESTINATION-PATH
03:41 zat :D!?
03:41 VanessaE I do something like that
03:41 zat omg great
03:42 zat a shell goddess.
03:42 zat marry me!
03:42 VanessaE http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/mi​netest/Server-scripts/update-server-mediafiles.sh
03:42 zat uh thats huge
03:42 VanessaE (other files in that dir may be of use to you, feel free to explore)
03:42 VanessaE yeah, it's big because I'm paranoid about filename conflicts
03:43 VanessaE I did it that way to roughly match how my server resolves mod dependencies and also to make sure the media files are copied to the live directory without hiccups
03:44 VanessaE also I doubt minetest can read an xcf :)
03:44 zat lol
03:45 zat with a mod for gimp compatibility it sure can
03:45 VanessaE you'd need to tweak irrlicht for that
03:45 Vazon joined #minetest
03:45 zat now I got the remote_media thing to work, but the server is now broken it seems
03:45 VanessaE broken?
03:46 zat I can sometimes connect to it, and when I get graphics I just see all gray, nothing loads.
03:46 VanessaE strnage
03:46 VanessaE strange, too
03:47 zat this thing just wants to troll me
03:47 VanessaE haha
03:47 zat you use the now latest git commit?
03:47 Megaf blaise: Still fetching media here
03:47 VanessaE almost latest.  I'm a few commits behind
03:47 Megaf no wonder you get several timeouts
03:48 VanessaE I'm at 6c37e89f on my server
03:48 zat I switched back to 0.4.9, if it fails I am checkouting that one. thx
03:49 * VanessaE looks at plants_lib's code and goes cross-eyed
03:49 zat lel
03:49 blaise Megaf: seriously?
03:49 WindHero :P
03:49 Megaf yep
03:49 blaise wow
03:50 blaise well, I suppose that will keep out the rif raf, eh?
03:50 blaise XD
03:50 Megaf blaise: about 50% fetched
03:50 Vazon Vanessa you wrote it, its not to make you go cross eyed lol
03:50 WindHero I digress
03:50 zat I sometimes do crosseye when I see code of mine that is br00tal
03:50 WindHero I've put down code for a month or so
03:51 WindHero and when I come back, it can make me wince
03:51 VanessaE Vazon: well given what I want to do to make it better...ehm..
03:51 VanessaE I need help
03:51 blaise I don't see it pushing any serious files or anything
03:51 * WindHero looks at unfinished, pathetic currency mod that's un-usuable
03:51 Megaf minetest protocol is not fast
03:52 blaise seems to be pushing about 9kilobytes per second
03:52 WindHero @_@
03:52 Megaf thats why VanessaE and other players use http media
03:52 blaise indeed
03:52 Megaf other aminds*
03:52 Megaf admins**
03:52 blaise is it possible for me to convert to http media
03:52 VanessaE Minetest's default protocol can push around 5 to 7 MB/sec depending on the speed of your machine
03:52 * blaise walks away for a second to help his wife
03:52 WindHero 9kbps is only thrice the speed of dial-up
03:52 VanessaE sapier says he's gotten a bit more than that
03:52 Megaf blaise: cool :)
03:52 blaise I should be able to push 256kb/s
03:52 blaise bytes, not bits
03:53 VanessaE I'm talking megabytes here :P
03:53 Megaf blaise: I'm able to push 100+ KB/s
03:53 Megaf 110 I think
03:54 VanessaE with default, 5 to 7, maybe a tad more.  with http, I've seen as high as 15 peak, with around 12 sustained (would probably be more if the server were closer and if it weren't the same box that runs the minetest server itself)
03:54 VanessaE megabytes per second that is.
03:54 VanessaE (over a common 10/100 link)
03:55 Megaf VanessaE: http://minetest.megaf.info/
03:55 Megaf what do you see?
03:55 WindHero I like coding and graphics and everything...
03:55 VanessaE megaf:  404.
03:55 WindHero but I can't do IT for the life of me
03:55 Megaf VanessaE: ok, wget or curl -O http://minetest.megaf.info/test.img
03:56 Megaf Im interested in your download speed from me
03:57 VanessaE megaf:  113 kBytes/sec peak, seems to want to sustain about 100.
03:57 VanessaE ETA:  16 minutes.
03:57 VanessaE now it's slowing down to around 80
03:57 VanessaE dropping now
03:57 Megaf well, theres people playing on my server
03:57 VanessaE 70-odd
03:57 VanessaE 60-odd
03:58 Megaf and it stoped
03:58 * VanessaE stops the download
03:59 VanessaE saw a brief peak at 117 kBytes/sec but generally it's staying in the 80 to 100 kB/sec range most of the time
03:59 WindHero What's wrong with me, I'm more inclined to help someone else work on their mod than on my own mod.
04:00 Megaf WindHero: That's how er are
04:00 Megaf we*
04:00 WindHero seems so :P
04:00 WindHero oh well, MoonTest certainly is benefitting! :D
04:01 VanessaE well plants_lib needs work done on it ;-)
04:01 Megaf night all
04:01 VanessaE night Megaf
04:01 WindHero night!
04:02 MegAFK I'm timing out at any moment
04:02 WindHero I'll go take a look at plant_lib first before diving in
04:03 WindHero VanessaE, could you possibly link me to the GitHub?
04:04 VanessaE https://github.com/VanessaE/pl​antlife/tree/master/plants_lib
04:05 zat sorry but let me be mean: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=plants_lib+git
04:05 WindHero ...
04:05 zat what, lol
04:05 WindHero I tried google, lol
04:05 WindHero but forgot plants_lib was part of plantlife
04:06 zat lolol
04:06 WindHero VanessaE: what needs to be done with the code?
04:07 VanessaE WindHero: I want to rewrite the main mapgen registration calls (which are wrapped by register_generate_plant() )  so that the mapblock only ever has to be evaluated one time, regardless of how many biomes have been defined
04:07 VanessaE s/biome/object/
04:08 VanessaE right now, it's evaluated once per object type, so if you have say 12 trees, each mapblock is search 12 times.
04:08 VanessaE searched*
04:09 VanessaE it was a stupid design decision back then, and now I just can't seem to find the drive to fix it because no one really uses it but me
04:09 VanessaE (I mean not many external mods use it)
04:11 WindHero hmm
04:12 WindHero yeah, that's ambitious
04:14 VanessaE yeah
04:17 VanessaE maybe if I moved the initial "search for surfaces" code (lines 126 to about 162) into a separate function and really only ever run that once if and only if there is some kind of plant registered to generate
04:18 VanessaE gather together a list of nodes to be treated as surfaces from all of the registration calls
04:18 VanessaE maybe not.
04:19 VanessaE or at least just the actual raw search-for-surface code without all those extra checks for humidity, elevation, etc.
04:19 VanessaE finding anything at all to spawn on is the slowest part of the code
04:19 VanessaE so if I move that to a one-time-only call, that should speed it up
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04:21 Vazon Night Everyone
04:22 VanessaE because that one check reduces a mapblock volume that can possibly be grown on to no greater than 2048 nodes, but in practice, it'll only be 256 nodes (the 16x16 top surface)
04:22 VanessaE night Vazon
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04:44 blaise uhrm
04:44 blaise interestingly enough
04:45 blaise people timeout when they try to connect to my server,
04:45 blaise but, there are no mobs from mobf
04:45 blaise like, none
04:45 blaise not at dark, not anywhere
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05:10 blaise so is my understanding right that the minetest client has to download the media for every server even if the same media exists for other servers?
05:11 blaise does it not use the same media for every server?
05:11 blaise or do checksums on everything to prevent duplication?
05:11 blaise or unneeded downloading?
05:14 VanessaE blaise: if the media file's hash is the same, no.
05:14 VanessaE it does not re-download
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05:18 blaise I wonder why megaf was having to wait so long for media... :\
05:19 blaise I've got gkrellm connected remotely and I didn't see anything pulling...
05:20 blaise cd .minetest/mods/mobf
05:20 blaise oops
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07:55 JamesTait Good morning all; happy Chocolate Chip Day! :-D
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08:56 Guest53624 hi everone!
08:56 Guest53624 I have an odd problem running MT on Mac OS
08:57 Guest53624 The mouse pointer doesn't point to exactly where the clicks are registered as clicking
08:57 reactor joined #minetest
08:57 Guest53624 rather a few pixels down & to the right... which makes using the menus hard
08:58 reactor ...so there i no Postgres backend yet?
08:58 reactor Also, hi!
09:01 RealBadAngel Guest53624, i suggest to post the issue in mac build forums thread
09:03 RealBadAngel https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=3&amp;t=9190
09:04 Guest53624 Hi!  I did mention it in the thread where we're talking about building it on Mavericks, so I guess I'll wait a while and see if someone clever comes up with an idea.  Thanks :)
09:12 CraigyDavi joined #minetest
09:13 kaeza http://legacy-cdn.smosh.co​m/smosh-pit/3/game-15.jpg
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09:58 Mikerhinos hi
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10:18 reactor Why do server log and IRC say "character conversion failed" instead of players' Unicode messages?
10:18 reactor Is this a known problem?
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10:27 VanessaE old minetest version
10:27 VanessaE that was fixed ages ago.
10:28 VanessaE just make sure your host is properly configured to handle multiple languages, UTF-8 etc.
10:29 reactor I compiled it a couple weeks ago.
10:29 VanessaE strange
10:29 reactor w/o gettext, however
10:29 VanessaE that would be why
10:29 reactor Well, other programs handle 8-bit without gettext.
10:29 VanessaE pretty sure you need that :)
10:30 VanessaE minetest ain't like other programs :)
10:30 reactor How come?
10:31 VanessaE how come, which part?
10:31 reactor The "ain't like other programs". How come 8-bit characters can't be handled without gettext, while other programs do it fine?
10:32 VanessaE I don't know
10:32 VanessaE http://dev.minetest.net/Compiling_Minetest
10:32 VanessaE ask the core devs :P
10:32 VanessaE "(If you want to use Minetest on languages other than English, you have to install gettext package and it's dependencies too.)"
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10:40 reactor I also have a q about worldedit.
10:40 reactor Is there a way to rotate nodes other than around Y axis, as //orient does?
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10:46 VanessaE not sure
10:46 VanessaE ok my brain is fried for the night
10:46 VanessaE I'm off.
10:46 VanessaE bbl
10:46 reactor o/
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11:39 Megaf Hi all
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12:02 megaf Hi all
12:02 megaf Hi all
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12:40 RedDogMT Sometimes I hate windows...
12:45 RedDogMT Ive got bricks for you onez
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13:11 Megaf RedDogMT: I hate windows all the time
13:11 Megaf And I don't even use it anymore
13:12 RedDogMT I want to switch but im afraid my wife will kill me. Shes not too tech savvy
13:12 Megaf so you share a computer
13:13 Megaf RedDogMT: do you use Skype?
13:13 RedDogMT Never have
13:14 Megaf RedDogMT: What she uses the computer for?
13:14 RedDogMT Yeah we share
13:15 RedDogMT Not much really but she wasnt happy when I updated to 7
13:15 RedDogMT I cant imagine the reaction from linux
13:15 Megaf well
13:16 RedDogMT I ran a dual boot for awhile and she wouldn't even try
13:16 Megaf I could help you install a good Linux distro, rock solid one, really stable and fast
13:16 Megaf and make it look like Windows XP
13:16 RedDogMT Oh really? What distro is it?
13:17 Megaf One of the most stable distros is Debian Wheezy
13:17 RedDogMT I will definitely think on that
13:18 RedDogMT Thank you i tried ubuntu and liked it but its a little more complex for the wifey
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13:20 Megaf RedDogMT: I made my girlfriend and maybe future wife switch do Debian
13:20 Megaf and I made my grandmother do the same
13:21 RedDogMT My wife loved xp if it looks like that we will be set
13:21 Megaf ok, Debian XFCE will be just as agile as XP
13:21 Megaf and with pretty good eye candy
13:22 Megaf RedDogMT: let me customize my XFCE here and send you a screenshot
13:22 RedDogMT Sweet thank you
13:34 zsoltisawesome lol guys look: Amaz1 commented in 37 minutes
13:34 zsoltisawesome I'm in the past!
13:35 zsoltisawesome ^ from GitHub
13:35 zsoltisawesome ach! grep has been going for like 40 minutes now...
13:36 zsoltisawesome I am such an idiot!
13:36 zsoltisawesome i was grepping for the wrong thing!
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13:39 Hirato it's in red... I thought I was highlighted for a moment :o
13:39 rsiska joined #minetest
13:39 Hirato stop playing with my feelings like that, I thought someone in here cared about me! :(
13:40 Hirato ;)
13:41 zsoltisawesome lol
13:41 zsoltisawesome Hirato: haha ManOfMinetest24  commented in 6 hours
13:41 zsoltisawesome i just commented now
13:43 Megaf RedDogMT_: well, not too bad http://www.zimagez.com/zimage​/screenshot-150514-104111.php
13:44 Hirato not a true windows desktop, needs at least 300 more icons; that includes it flooding over onto any other monitors
13:45 Hirato seriously though, why?
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13:56 Megaf Hirato: heh
13:56 Megaf indeed
13:57 Megaf windows users love to put everything on the desktop
13:57 zsoltisawesome D: I hate state testing!
14:00 PenguinDad xP is a nice smiley :)
14:01 zsoltisawesome it gives you experiance :D
14:03 PenguinDad zsoltisawesome: experiance in minetest?
14:07 Megaf_ joined #minetest
14:07 zsoltisawesome PenguinDad: would be cool
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14:54 Mikerhinos trying the Wasteland game, have some random force close with segmentation errors :s
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15:07 sfan5 meow
15:07 sfan5 hi people
15:07 sfan5 and kittens
15:07 Mikerhinos o/
15:07 sfan5 and ponies
15:07 PenguinDad /)
15:07 * sfan5 meows at PenguinDad
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15:11 * Jordach noms on ice cream
15:12 CraigyDavi hi
15:12 Jordach CraigyDavi, gah, summertime D:
15:12 Jordach (sooo warm!)
15:13 CraigyDavi How warm is it where you are?
15:13 CraigyDavi Only 20 degrees here or so
15:14 CraigyDavi But pretty warm compared to normal temperatures in England :)
15:14 Mikerhinos warmer than in France lol, only 15° here
15:16 Jordach CraigyDavi, just outside of Norwich
15:16 Jordach (roughly 7 mi)
15:16 PenguinDad 20°C is warmer than here in germany :(
15:17 Jordach 18°C here
15:17 Jordach but feels like 24
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15:18 Megaf 26°C here
15:18 Megaf hell
15:19 CraigyDavi it feels much warmer here after the cold winter and the tonnes of rain
15:19 Jordach CraigyDavi, you try being in a room with 12 operating computers D:
15:19 PenguinDad 20°C is perfect IMO
15:19 Jordach and the windows don't even fucking open
15:20 Megaf 18°C is good too
15:20 CraigyDavi Go buy a fan then :)
15:20 CraigyDavi Actually don't. they rise the prices up high at this time of the year
15:22 Jordach i'll just buy one of those Dyson Airblades
15:22 Jordach better job, less power usage
15:24 CraigyDavi Good idea
15:25 Jordach and i can stick my hand in without losing it :D
15:26 jin_xi you can put it in front of the screen and look trough
15:27 PenguinDad such air
15:27 Jordach and i found this
15:28 PenguinDad very look-through
15:28 Jordach http://www.reddit.com/r/montageparodies/comme​nts/227y58/wallace_n_grom8_the_wrong_noscope/
15:28 PenguinDad wow
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15:58 PilzAdam Hello everyone!
15:58 Megaf Hi PilzAdam
15:58 zat Hi Pilz.
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16:06 john_minetest Hello everypony.
16:07 Calinou hi
16:12 Megaf Hi john_minetest
16:13 PenguinDad joined #minetest
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16:15 * Megaf is not using Tor Browser
16:15 Megaf welcome back PenguinDad
16:16 PenguinDad EHLO Megaf.local
16:18 asie joined #minetest
16:19 Jordach hey asie
16:19 asie hey Jordach
16:19 Jordach asie, managed to compress my tanks much further down
16:19 asie neat
16:19 Jordach https://github.com/Jordach/big_freaking_dig/co​mmit/5c1f4506ad7aa6ef2df2ac127f1624c93bf1f823
16:20 Jordach and there's the magic :)
16:20 john_minetest PenguinDad: It is HELO. You are doing stuff that isn't in SMTP.
16:20 john_minetest EHLO is unsupported.
16:20 john_minetest ;P
16:20 john_minetest Except for you are using extended SMTP.
16:21 john_minetest Also Ehlo was selected in the third round of the 1983 NBA Draft by the Houston Rockets.
16:24 rubenwardy joined #minetest
16:25 PenguinDad john_minetest: but EHLO is nicer
16:28 john_minetest It is so amazing how traceroute works :D
16:30 rubenwardy Hi all!
16:30 dhbiker joined #minetest
16:30 john_minetest So cool: Packages contain an option of the maximal hop number. So you can tell it to travel only n routers far. If a packet expires while not having arrived yet, a lot of routers send a package to the client, saying that the package expired. That way you can increment your maximal hop count and list all routers that answered (or *** for the few ones that doesn't have this feature).
16:30 john_minetest You start at 0 and go up until the destination answers.
16:31 FreeFull joined #minetest
16:31 john_minetest And hi rubenwardy
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16:34 Jordach newsflash: i suck at pen drawings
16:34 john_minetest This is mine now: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons​/f/fd/Sikorsky_Skycrane_carrying_house_bw.jpg
16:34 Jordach my skills have turned to shit
16:34 john_minetest "Duh, you don't wanna give me your house? I'll take it! How, you ask? I'll show you!"
16:34 Jordach (i might have also attempted to ctrl+z real life)
16:36 john_minetest Maybe try fg?
16:36 john_minetest ;)
16:40 Jordach things added to my buying list: drawing tablet
16:40 Jordach practice without fucking paper
16:42 * sfan5 meows at Jordach
16:43 Jordach fucking strange that i've mastered the 3D space
16:43 Jordach but not pencil and paper
16:46 * Jordach is currently shirtless :P
16:46 Jordach still too warm
16:47 Megaf don't you have air contioning?
16:47 Jordach Megaf, nope.avi
16:47 Jordach house was built ~80 years ago
16:47 Megaf so what?
16:47 Jordach although that standing fan upstairs...
16:47 Jordach brb
16:48 Megaf in Brazil even 300 years old building have air contionoing
16:48 zat VanessaE: really odd, when there is an index.mth file, minetest client tries to post to it, receiving an error 405 back. D:
16:49 Jordach ahh
16:49 Jordach there we go
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16:51 Jordach much better
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17:06 Krock Hello.
17:07 CraigyDavi hi
17:09 Krock c'mon is there none having problems with leveldb worlds with the latest builds?
17:10 zat I dont
17:10 zat what are your problems?
17:10 * Krock is grabbing the screenshots
17:10 Krock https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?p=141615#p141615
17:11 Krock zat -^
17:11 zat you deleted the map.db dir?
17:12 iqualfragile joined #minetest
17:12 Krock why should I emulate a virus?
17:12 sapier joined #minetest
17:12 zat did you?
17:12 Krock NO!
17:13 Krock zat: https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?p=140282#p140282 earliest post about this
17:13 Krock 13 days or even more
17:13 zat more like corrupted it looks like the mapgen is generating a slightly different world.
17:13 sfan5 holy fuck
17:13 sfan5 minetestserver is using 2.2 GB memory
17:14 Krock sfan5, how much players? :3
17:14 sfan5 0
17:14 Krock xD
17:14 sfan5 I'm not kidding
17:14 Krock something went wrong in forceunloading blocks
17:14 Krock ?
17:14 sfan5 maybe
17:15 Krock 11 players and < 200 MB
17:15 Krock * 160 MB rounded
17:15 sfan5 maybe it's a memory leak in redis
17:16 Krock ah yes that's possible
17:16 sfan5 (the redis backend, not redis itself)
17:16 * Jordach can smell leaky code
17:16 Krock redis saves all data in memory and saves, right?
17:16 Krock eh... saves  2x that's confusing
17:17 Krock zat: regular mapgen v6
17:17 sapier sfan could you try running minetest within valgrind?
17:17 sfan5 sapier: guess why I'm recompiling
17:17 sapier ahh :-) sorry
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17:18 sfan5 Krock: the redis server only uses 560 MB
17:18 sfan5 the map is 350MB IIRC
17:18 Krock srsly..everytime. why can't the guys just use the direct host instead of switching everytime?
17:19 Krock sfan5, good chances for problem = redis
17:19 PenguinDad !c 'redis' >> 'leveldb'
17:19 MinetestBot TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for >>: 'str' and 'str'
17:19 PenguinDad !c 'redis' > 'leveldb'
17:19 MinetestBot True
17:20 Krock yes, > in RAM
17:23 zat Krock: backup map.db and let the game regenerate the map
17:23 zat if it looks different, then its the mapgen using a different “formula”.
17:23 Krock zat, ehm ok. I'll try that
17:24 zat Krock: bugs normally make really strange and ugly artifacts in the map.
17:24 Krock zat, with the time it overgenerates everything
17:25 Krock and resets
17:25 Megaf sfan5: dont use redis
17:25 Megaf unles you are running on another server
17:25 Megaf also, redis works storing the whole db in ram
17:25 Megaf os if you world is 500 MB, it will use 500 MB
17:25 sfan5 Megaf: why not? keeping the db in ram makes it faster?
17:25 Megaf and if you energy is interrupet, you lost everuthing
17:26 sfan5 second ? -> ""
17:26 sfan5 uhh no
17:26 Krock Megaf, sfan5 toldabout 2.2 GB ram usage IIRC
17:26 Megaf Ive been talking to redis guys
17:26 zat could be good in my laptop which has 32gb of ram :D
17:26 sfan5 redis saves the database pretty often
17:26 sfan5 you can configure it differently
17:26 Megaf in redis the disk is like just a backup
17:26 sfan5 Krock: 2.2GB minetestserver not the redis server
17:26 Megaf but it works in ram
17:27 Krock sfan5, so they're seperated? remote saving?
17:27 sfan5 Krock: yes, the redis server only keeps the DB; minetest connects to it and does stuff
17:27 Krock sfan5, perfect for 1GB SD cards on a RPi... lol
17:28 sfan5 uh no
17:28 Krock (minetestserver)
17:28 sfan5 sd cards are worst for storing stuff
17:28 Krock how come?
17:28 Krock slow?
17:28 sfan5 the sd card in my rpi recently stopped working completly when I did "sudo pacman -Syu"
17:28 sfan5 no
17:28 sfan5 but it only has limited writes
17:28 Krock happens when using linux HAHA
17:28 Krock or not.
17:29 Krock that's weird
17:29 sfan5 if those writes are used up it either gets read only or breaks completly
17:29 Megaf sfan5: Ive been using a 8 GB Class 10 SanDisk SD Card on my Pi, works very well
17:29 Krock but.. there are no physical forces on the sdcard, how can it damage then???
17:29 Megaf and Megaf Server V4.0 runs on a Class 10 SanDisk too
17:29 Megaf they are pretty good
17:29 Krock sfan5, please explaim me the "data room" loss
17:30 sfan5 Megaf: that may work good, but if the limited writes of the flash are used up it gets read only
17:32 sfan5 Krock: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki​/Flashspeicher#Anzahl_der_L.C3.B6schzyklen
17:34 Krock sfan5, that's.. sad. So I guess, the SSD HDD's are also having those problems? they use thoe chips too
17:36 sapier ssd hdds usually have a lot of "unused" blocks, and a way better wear leveling algorithm but yes they've got basicaly same issue
17:36 sapier some ssd's tell only 2/3 of the amount of flash memory built in as their capacity
17:36 Krock and I thought they can't have data loss
17:37 sapier well to be honest ssd's are way more risky about data loss then hdd's
17:37 sfan5 everything has a downside (usually)
17:37 Krock hmm a globe not
17:37 Krock whatever thanks for the information
17:37 sfan5 *** Error in `./minetest': double free or corruption (!prev): 0x000000000151dce0 ***
17:37 sfan5 wtf glibc
17:37 sapier if hdd electronics is damaged you can replace it, for ssd's that's not possible because of information about data structure is saved within the electronics
17:38 sfan5 hm
17:38 sfan5 valgrind did not report any leaks yet
17:38 sapier in worst case data is even encrypted in flash in this case there's no way to get it back ... well unless nsa has some private keys to it
17:38 sfan5 so it's probably not the redis backend
17:38 sfan5 maybe it's luajit
17:38 sfan5 (can't use valgrind with luajit)
17:38 sapier why not?
17:39 sfan5 luajit does special things that don't work with valgrind
17:39 sfan5 luajit needs to be compiled for it
17:39 Krock we need a new backend like leveldb which likes win32 :)
17:40 sapier oh ... ShadowNinja is hunting down another memory corruption happening on doing async things atm
17:40 sfan5 https://github.com/LuaDist/luaji​t/blob/master/CMakeLists.txt#L40
17:40 sapier at least I think he's doing that
17:40 sfan5 Krock: rocksdb?
17:40 sfan5 Krock: I dunno whether it support windows
17:40 Calinou sapier> if hdd electronics is damaged you can replace it
17:40 Calinou technically…
17:40 Calinou actually, you can't
17:40 sfan5 depends
17:40 Calinou not everyone is Jeija
17:41 Krock sfan5, that one bases on leveldb so I guess it doesn't
17:41 Calinou sapier> ssd hdds → this means nothing
17:41 sapier well you can't but ppl having a clean room and replacement electronics usually can
17:41 sfan5 the electronics of the hdds i have lying around here are completly replaceable without a cleanroom
17:41 sfan5 (except the motor)
17:41 sfan5 Krock: why not?
17:41 Calinou >implying a lot of people have a cleanroom
17:42 sapier true, but what I was pointing at is data on disk is usually written in a recoverable format, while flash chips are written almost chaotic
17:42 rubenwardy my God
17:42 rubenwardy fixing coding style is boring
17:42 Calinou Ctrl+H to the rescue
17:42 Krock rubenwardy, no, it's cool to have tabs instead of spaces :)
17:43 Calinou fixing that is easy
17:43 Calinou except if you have multiple lengths in the same file
17:43 sapier there are various ways to destroy hdd data too of course, most will destroy a ssd too
17:44 Calinou happens in some Carbone code :(
17:44 Calinou <sapier> well to be honest ssd's are way more risky about data loss then hdd's
17:44 Calinou or not
17:44 Calinou I wouldn't say they fail more
17:46 sapier well my personal experience is ssd's fail more, but that may be related to hdd technology beeing quite marture while ssd's are still quite experimental ... no matter, the speed they provide is worth the risk
17:46 sapier at least to me ;)
17:46 Calinou I have SSD for 1 year, no fail
17:46 Calinou my other HDDs didn't fail either
17:47 Calinou SSDs can be considered mature now
17:47 rubenwardy !title https://github.com/rubenwardy/NodeBoxEditor/co​mmit/462a224b5bddb18c673c72425fd08338df38577b
17:47 sapier I did replace 2 of 4 hdd's within the last 3 years ... ans in total 3 of about 20-30 hdds I had within the last 20 years
17:47 MinetestBot rubenwardy: Fix coding style part one · 462a224 · rubenwardy/NodeBoxEditor · GitHub
17:48 Megaf there are some enterprise grade SSDs
17:48 sapier of course none of those numbers is representable
17:48 Megaf they have several GBs to spare
17:48 sapier well I didn't buy enterprise grade hdd's too
17:49 Megaf so you buy a 32 GB SSD, and it have more 32 GB to "replace" "burnt" "sectors"
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17:50 Calinou never had a failing HDD
17:50 Calinou :phoronix rolleyes:
17:50 Calinou Megaf, almost all SSDs today have overprovisioning
17:51 Calinou except 840 Pro (I think… it's also the one I have)
17:51 sapier megaf the "worst" overprovisioning I read about was some intel hdd having only 2/3 capacity of it's actual flash
17:52 Megaf well, I wouldnt buy any SSD yet
17:52 Calinou why not?
17:52 Calinou the “write” stuff is FUD
17:53 john_minetest SSDs look like crap.
17:53 john_minetest I saw one and it is just like a large ram thingie.
17:53 Calinou lol, you're doing it wrong
17:53 john_minetest HDDs look much cooler. That's why I won't switch.
17:53 Calinou looks much better than an HDD, is lighter and much smaller
17:53 Calinou HDDs look like a bad PC from the 90s
17:53 Calinou especially from below
17:53 Calinou oh and they're at least 3 times heavier
17:54 * Megaf does not likes either ssd or hdds
17:54 Megaf both are crap
17:54 john_minetest Pah.
17:55 john_minetest I got a hdd in my hand right now and it is beautiful.
17:55 Megaf let me show you whats fast and durable
17:55 sfan5 inb4 sd cards
17:55 Jordach inb4 penis
17:55 Krock <.<
17:55 sfan5 oh come on
17:55 sfan5 Jordach pls
17:55 Calinou <Megaf> both are crap
17:56 Calinou acutally slightly true
17:56 sfan5 ok whatever
17:56 john_minetest SD cards are a lot cooler than SSDs. They don't look as stylish as HDDs but they have a much better packing density. That outweights the crappy look.
17:56 Calinou both are crippled and run on proprietary firmware only
17:56 sfan5 I can't reproduce those leaks
17:56 Calinou SDs are VERY slow in comparison to SSDs
17:56 sfan5 I'll just restart minetestserver once in a while
17:56 sfan5 ^ what Calinou just said
17:57 john_minetest Ultimate argument: Imagine a zombie apocalypse.
17:57 Megaf thats a good tech, are really fast, faster than ANY SSD or HDD combined, no matter the RAID or LVM array
17:57 Megaf and lasts for ever
17:57 Megaf https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-RAM
17:57 john_minetest The edge of a HDD is really sharp. You could probably hurt zombies with it.
17:58 sfan5 john_minetest: you have not seen the edge of laptop dvd drives yet
17:58 john_minetest Also HDDs are heavier and can be thrown. SSDs are just too light.
17:58 john_minetest I mean the edge of the silver-ish spinning disk in the HDD.
17:59 Krock john_minetest, can't seep tonight cuz of you.
17:59 Krock HDD's aren't made to throw
17:59 john_minetest I once opened the case (uuuh, warranty void) and cut myself pretty hard.
18:00 john_minetest HDDs are awesome.
18:01 john_minetest Also, imagine you apply for a job and when you are sitting there and waiting for the guy to call you in, you realize that you had peanut butter for breakfast. And your laptop's screen isn't reflective.
18:01 sfan5 Megaf:
18:01 sfan5 <Krock> HDD's aren't made to throw
18:01 sfan5 oh wait
18:01 sfan5 Megaf: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magn​etoresistive_random-access_memory
18:01 Krock lol
18:01 john_minetest Just take the screws out of a hdd and use the silver plate as a mirror
18:02 zat1 joined #minetest
18:03 Megaf sfan5: yep, another promissing tech
18:03 * sfan5 purrs
18:03 Megaf RAM exists because HDDs are slow
18:03 sfan5 uh not really
18:03 Megaf CPU Cache exists because RAM is slow
18:04 sfan5 it is not practical to use a permanent storage device for working with data
18:04 Megaf it would be great if you had a storage as durable as a HDD and as fast as CPU L1 Cache
18:04 sfan5 you do
18:04 sfan5 the l1 cache itself
18:04 sfan5 durable (with power)
18:04 sfan5 and as fast as itself (how you requested)
18:04 Megaf and as chep as a HDD
18:05 sfan5 uhh... that not
18:05 Megaf L1 cache is extremely expensive
18:05 zat joined #minetest
18:07 Calinou <john_minetest> HDDs are awesome.
18:07 Calinou insanely old, slow stuff
18:07 Calinou they're bound to die for the vast majority of uses
18:07 Calinou do tablets and smartphones have HDDs? ;)
18:07 sfan5 no
18:08 sapier do tablets and smartphones usually survive more then 2 years? ;-)
18:08 sfan5 no
18:08 sfan5 Megaf: http://www.everspin.com/products​/second-generation-st-mram.html
18:10 Exio4 Calinou: so far, why do you say HDDs are bound to die? they're hell cheap, that is why they're still here
18:10 Krock agh..that CAN'T be true D:
18:10 Exio4 mainly because its "old tech", making an HDD is insanely cheap vs a SSD
18:10 Megaf Calinou: there used to be some cool HDDs
18:10 Megaf the size of you nail
18:11 Exio4 also, my netbook's harddisk was actually pretty good
18:11 Exio4 it survived lots of crashes :P
18:11 kahrl joined #minetest
18:11 Megaf sfan5: we got to get computers using that
18:12 sapier well as always use right tool for right thing, on mobile devices where usually a lot of acceleration occurs harddrives may not be right technology to use ;-)
18:12 sfan5 Megaf: the biggest chips listed there are only 2MB :( http://www.everspin.com/products.p​hp?hjk=16&amp;a1f3=16Mb&amp;a=Yes
18:12 Megaf Those were amazing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microdrive
18:12 Megaf I always wanted to have one
18:12 john_minetest You can do music with a HDD. AND it has a funny shiny disk inside. AND it is heavy enough to kill a zombie (if you are using an external one or a desktop one)
18:12 sfan5 >(if you are using an external one or a desktop one)
18:12 john_minetest Yeah.
18:12 sfan5 external zombie vs. desktop zombie?
18:13 Exio4 yeah, it is better Calinou, but cpu cache is better than ram, we all should have 16gb of cache
18:13 john_minetest A laptop one has still the sharp, shiny disk. Could also kill a zombie. Let's ask myth busters.
18:13 Exio4 lol
18:14 werwerwer joined #minetest
18:15 john_minetest I wonder why my computer beeps when I remove the ram. CPU cache should be enough to start bootloader and launch a kernel.
18:16 Krock sfan5, were there any changes in the leveldb backend since 2014-04-24?
18:16 Exio4 john_minetest: haha
18:16 sfan5 Krock: not that I know of any
18:16 Krock weird.
18:16 Megaf john_minetest: it doesnt works like that
18:16 sapier john_minetest: it's not you computer but your mainboard
18:16 sfan5 john_minetest: the cpu cache is not accessiable as direct memory
18:16 Krock sfan5, because when I test an older backup from march, then I don't get any problems
18:16 Krock but with the latest, I get mapgen corruption
18:16 sfan5 Krock: backup of minetest or just the world
18:16 sfan5 ?
18:17 sapier ok ok mainboard is part of computer :)
18:17 Krock sfan5, old backup of world with new mt cleint
18:17 sfan5 Krock: then your leveldb world is corrupted
18:17 Krock sfan5, but it works fine with the version above
18:17 sfan5 Krock: try converting it to sqlite3 and then into leveldb again (delete the old map.db before)
18:17 Krock hmm
18:18 Krock which client should I use to convert? old or new?
18:18 sfan5 new
18:18 zat joined #minetest
18:18 Krock ok, I'll try that. Expecting downtime of > 4 hours :/
18:18 Calinou <Exio4> Calinou: so far, why do you say HDDs are bound to die? they're hell cheap, that is why they're still here
18:18 Calinou bound to die as SSDs get cheaper and people get more and more mobile.
18:19 Krock zat! http://i.imgur.com/V2g5hHl.png tested a new map with same generation settings, on bottom old map with corruption included an
18:20 Krock sfan5, sorry for bugging you because of this problem many times but I actually never tested an old backup
18:20 Krock ..except of today
18:21 Exio4 more and more mobile?
18:21 Exio4 using that argument we can say desktops will die
18:21 Krock none!
18:24 Calinou Exio4, no, they won't
18:24 Calinou this doesn't mean users are shifting towards mobile in general
18:24 Calinou even laptops
18:24 Calinou aren't*
18:24 Calinou Krock, these white-ish leaves are ugly
18:24 zat Krock: looks like differences in mods also
18:24 Calinou fix the default_leaves.png
18:25 Calinou make it opaque by yourself
18:26 Krock zat, I didn't want to turn server off
18:26 Krock Calinou, haven't had all mods from server
18:29 zat Krock: then consider making a testing server before blindly updating your production one.
18:29 Krock zat, that's my thing. already discussed that with th players on my server
18:29 Jordach hey sapier - i've noticed something about minetest and usb devices
18:30 Jordach 1) run minetest off of a USB flash, 2) crash it via a lua mod 3) minetest force quits and does not return to menu
18:30 Jordach notable on Windows regardless of compiler
18:31 Jordach (currently using sfan5's builds)
18:31 sfan5 \o/
18:31 sfan5 :3
18:31 zat Krock: well
18:31 Jordach easily crashable with a bad puncher:set_wielded_item()
18:32 Jordach because BlockMen needs to compile more often ;)
18:32 Jordach also; feature idea
18:32 Jordach why don't we have the sun and moon visible in the startup menu
18:32 Krock zat, backup whole MT folder, upgrade MT version, migrate to sqlite3, backup, migrate to leveldb, backup, test
18:32 Jordach so you can see the sun, moon and stars with the clouds
18:32 Krock the map isn't too big
18:32 zat why that migration?
18:33 Jordach oof
18:33 Jordach BFD weighs in at 47mb
18:33 Jordach starting to challenge VanessaE's game in size ;)
18:35 sfan5 <Jordach> why don't we have the sun and moon visible in the startup menu
18:35 sfan5 yes
18:35 sfan5 yes!
18:35 sfan5 yes!!!
18:35 Krock no!
18:35 Jordach why am i suddenly an ideas man
18:36 Krock why not turn off clouds on mainmenu?
18:36 john_minetest why not turn off your computer from mainmenu?
18:36 Krock <john_minetest>why not turn off your computer from mainmenu?
18:36 Krock yes
18:36 Krock yes!
18:36 zat why not turn you off...
18:36 * sfan5 purrs at john_minetest
18:36 Jordach !title https://github.com/Jordach/big_freaking_dig/co​mmit/09d40256cbd0d543ac72f5529a84c8fa3d86c4da
18:36 MinetestBot Jordach: fix sickles crashing the server · 09d4025 · Jordach/big_freaking_dig · GitHub
18:37 * john_minetest gives sfan5 his last <'(((((-<
18:37 * sfan5 noms the fishy and john_minetest
18:37 Exio4 we should also have a facebook button in mainmenu
18:37 Exio4 "Like this game!"
18:37 sfan5 ^
18:37 sfan5 and a twitter button
18:37 Exio4 that too
18:38 zat NO PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEE
18:38 Megaf_ joined #minetest
18:38 zat fucking fad thats everywhere!
18:38 Krock we need an instagram button
18:39 Krock also for flickr
18:39 Exio4 sfan5: I thought a button for following game's creator and adding him as friend on facebook would be nice too
18:39 Jordach yay :D sickles ignore leaves :D
18:39 sfan5 Exio4: yeah
18:39 Jordach it checks if it has leafdecay group then doesn't do shit
18:42 PenguinDad plol I just read sickless crashing the server
18:49 exoplanet joined #minetest
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18:52 * Jordach is doing more black fucking magic
18:54 * Jordach can't wait for RBA to do meshnodes
18:55 * sfan5 suggest Jordach to throw money at RBA so that he does it faster
18:55 sfan5 suggests*
18:55 Jordach just because i have £400 in my wallet, doesn't mean i should
18:55 Jordach although i know he likes his chicken
18:55 Jordach (he once said this)
18:56 Jordach sfan5, meshnodes = player statues
18:56 Jordach properly :)
18:57 Amaz What are meshnodes for?
18:58 Jordach animated nodes (eg, changing mesh)
18:58 Amaz Okay.
18:58 Jordach Amaz, think of things that aren't doable with nodeboxes
18:58 Jordach REAL SLOPES
18:58 Jordach etc, like bouncin spheres
18:58 Amaz Right!
18:59 CraigyDavi joined #minetest
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18:59 Jordach player statues is something i might do to test it out ;)
18:59 Amaz That would be awesome!
18:59 Jordach except i want them to look like stone
19:00 sapier well if you wanna kill performance completely you're gonna do this jordach ... but don't complain about having 1 fps afterwards
19:00 us`0gb joined #minetest
19:00 Jordach sapier, i'm still at 60fps
19:01 sapier you won't stay there once mesh nodes are added and ppl start abusing it
19:01 Jordach sapier, that depends on the mod
19:02 sapier one single mod can kill performance
19:02 sapier just replace default:grass by a meshnode having 200 polygons for example
19:02 Jordach sapier, but who'd do that ;)
19:02 sapier those ppl who believe worlds are to flat and should be more "realistic"
19:03 Jordach sapier, seriously - who'd do that
19:03 * Jordach is actually considering adding the airsword mod in
19:04 Amaz You should!
19:04 Jordach !c 4000*4000
19:04 MinetestBot 16000000
19:04 Krock Jordach, active on my server. very nice mod
19:05 Jordach 1 in 16000000 chance of getting a air sword drop from an EvergreenTree NPC
19:05 Jordach because their spawn chance is tied to the saplin
19:05 Jordach and maybe from dungeon masters ;)
19:05 Amaz Okay!
19:05 Jordach but like at 1/16000
19:06 Jordach except dm's have stupid health now (they have nearly 4x the player's health)
19:06 Jordach and can kill in two hits
19:06 Amaz That's quite hard...
19:07 Jordach except they spawn at -4.098km downwards
19:07 Amaz Not as bad as some of the mobs I'm working on.. 300 hp, and kill in two hits.
19:07 pro joined #minetest
19:08 Jordach travelnets is a thing to be added in :P
19:08 Jordach Sokomine, ^
19:08 AspireMint joined #minetest
19:09 Jordach hey AspireMint
19:09 AspireMint Hellou
19:10 Jordach AspireMint, adding a working AirSword into my game
19:11 AspireMint AirSword? o.O
19:11 AspireMint what is it?
19:12 Jordach a rare mob dro
19:12 Jordach drop*
19:12 e1z0 joined #minetest
19:12 Jordach does insane damage, but does have a chance of dropping at 1/16000000 from the NPC, and 1/16000 from DMs
19:13 AspireMint :D
19:14 Jordach groupcaps: snappy = {times={[1]=0.05, [2]=0.005, [3]=0.0005}, uses = 1337, maxlevel=1},
19:14 Jordach this might help killing gods damage_groups = {fleshy=100, immortal=100}, ;)
19:14 PenguinDad *maxlevel=42} -- ;)
19:15 Jordach immortal *is* a damage group
19:15 AspireMint uses 1337? what is means?
19:15 AspireMint it*
19:17 Jordach !g define: 1337
19:17 MinetestBot Jordach: http://www.urbandictionary​.com/define.php?term=1337
19:21 Megaf_ joined #minetest
19:26 Jordach and so i get recursion
19:27 Jordach great
19:27 Jordach provided the sickle has infinite durability, it will dig everything within loaded range
19:29 Jordach PilzAdam, is there a way with node_dig to fake the digging item?
19:32 Jordach because minetest.on_dig(func) is recursing
19:40 rsiska joined #minetest
19:40 us^0gb joined #minetest
19:43 Jordach yay
19:43 Jordach solved it
19:43 Jordach minetest.remove_node in place, except you don't get drops
19:44 asie joined #minetest
19:45 tomreyn joined #minetest
19:49 ShadowNinja ~tell rubenwardy I already started fixing NodeBoxEditor, but you're making it mighty hard with major rebases.
19:49 ShadowBot ShadowNinja: O.K.
19:50 ShadowNinja ~tell rubenwardy I'd PR it now, but there's a mysterious bug where nodebox handles are shifted down and right by a few hundred pixels.
19:50 ShadowBot ShadowNinja: O.K.
19:51 EvergreenTree joined #minetest
19:56 Jordach joined #minetest
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20:00 Vazon joined #minetest
20:01 Wuzzy joined #minetest
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20:16 Miner_48er joined #minetest
20:21 zat I found the bottom of the world at y -30912!!
20:21 EvergreenTree And?
20:21 EvergreenTree Everyone knows that
20:21 ShadowNinja zat: By manually digging down there?
20:23 Jordach gah
20:23 Jordach manually re-writing gsmanners hammer code is a PITA
20:23 Jordach i'm having to work it so it makes sure that hammers dig stone, dirt movers dig crumblies
20:24 zat ShadowNinja: teleport
20:24 Jordach sickles already do that :P
20:24 zat EvergreenTree: really??? nooooooooo it cant be!!!
20:24 EvergreenTree well, not everyone
20:24 EvergreenTree but it is a known fact
20:24 john_minetest iirc Jordach once dug his way down there. Might have been Jordan4ibanez, not sure.
20:24 zat you thought that I came just to say that? LOL how n00b from your part .lolololololol
20:24 EvergreenTree wat?
20:25 zat lololol
20:25 Jordach whaaattt?
20:25 ShadowNinja zat: Ah, I did tgat long ago.  I didn't memorize the exact coordinate until a few months ago though.
20:25 zat I wanted to suggest... why not make all the world from like y 30000 down to be all lava?
20:25 zat would make more sense
20:25 john_minetest idk.
20:25 john_minetest is 30 km down lava in real world?
20:25 Jordach don't give me BFD ideas ;)
20:26 john_minetest iirc 30 km is still mantle. Not sure though.
20:26 zat john_minetest: not like the real world is made of 1x1x1 boxes anyway.
20:26 john_minetest Oh, wait, even the crust is 40 km.
20:27 john_minetest Mantle is still solid and goes 200 km down or so
20:27 john_minetest well, 2900 km
20:27 john_minetest close enough :P
20:28 zat make it all lava!!
20:28 * sfan5 meows at john_minetest
20:28 zat Actually... I think that the more you go down, the more the lava you find
20:28 zat so digging gets harder and harder
20:28 zat and hotter...
20:29 * zat thinks that sfan5's meow was super gay
20:29 * sfan5 curls up to zat's lap
20:29 zat D: no!
20:29 * sfan5 curls up to zat's lap
20:30 CraigyDavi lol
20:30 CraigyDavi hi everyone
20:30 meldrian joined #minetest
20:31 zat super gay!
20:32 tomreyn joined #minetest
20:32 zat hi CraigyDavi.
20:32 CraigyDavi hi zat
20:32 ShadowNinja zat: Do it in a mod.  See my bedrock mod (mapgen.lua) for an example.
20:34 john_minetest sfan5: You have eaten my last fish and you have eaten ME! Enough for today.
20:34 sfan5 john_minetest: no u
20:34 * sfan5 meows at john_minetest
20:34 john_minetest I got chocolate.
20:34 * sfan5 noms john_minetest's choclate
20:35 zat ShadowNinja: what mods for more ores would you recommend?
20:35 zat I have only moreores
20:35 * john_minetest gives sfan5 "Milka Alpenmilch 29g"
20:36 Gambit joined #minetest
20:36 ShadowNinja zat: Mods for moreores?  Do you mean in addition to moreores?
20:37 zsoltisawesome he means what mods he can add in addition to moreores
20:37 ShadowNinja See my server's topic for other mods.
20:37 werwerwer joined #minetest
20:37 CraigyDavi zat, moreores has "mg" mod support
20:37 zat more ores, lol
20:38 zat I mean... I want more ores, the most just happens to be called the same as what I want.
20:38 zsoltisawesome i knew it!
20:38 zat lol
20:39 CraigyDavi So you want a mod which adds more ores but not the moreores mod?
20:41 john_minetest left #minetest
20:41 zat may be in addition to moreores
20:41 VanessaE glooptest adds some stuff
20:41 VanessaE technic adds a number of ores also
20:41 ShadowNinja Oh, haha.  Try gloopores (gloopblocks?) and/or technic.
20:41 VanessaE ShadowNinja: s/gloopores/glooptest/
20:42 VanessaE (gloopblocks is mostly just building materials)
20:42 zat I found gemstones :D
20:42 ShadowNinja VanessaE: All the names!
20:42 CraigyDavi zat: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=8866
20:42 zsoltisawesome I found a bug!
20:42 zsoltisawesome ^ not in mintest
20:42 VanessaE _ALL_ the names?  o~o
20:43 zsoltisawesome *minetest
20:43 zsoltisawesome lol
20:43 VanessaE zat: also consider the titanium mod
20:43 VanessaE in total, dreambuilder has something like 30 different ores in it I think
20:43 dhbiker joined #minetest
20:43 VanessaE because of what its various mods supply
20:45 ShadowNinja VanessaE: As in "All of these different names"!
20:45 VanessaE heh
20:45 sfan5 !c 1024 / 16.0
20:45 MinetestBot 64.0
20:45 * VanessaE pokes NekoGloop :P
20:45 NekoGloop haihai
20:45 * sfan5 meows at NekoGloop
20:45 ShadowNinja s/"!/!"/
20:45 NekoGloop whatcha need
20:45 VanessaE it's HIS fault :)
20:46 NekoGloop glooptest was supposed to have more content but I discontinued it to work on other things
20:47 NekoGloop gloopores was just that, ores by me. it was discontinued and its ores put into glooptest.
20:47 NekoGloop gloopblocks was my first mod, when I was just poking around with lua.
20:47 VanessaE which I then took up.
20:47 zsoltisawesome NekoGloop: what do you work on these days?
20:47 NekoGloop yes
20:48 NekoGloop I work on wasting a shitton of time sitting here on my arse all day
20:48 zsoltisawesome haha
20:48 NekoGloop does that answer your question? :)
20:48 VanessaE haha
20:48 zsoltisawesome NekoGloop: do you have enough time to help with moontest?
20:48 NekoGloop moontest?
20:49 zsoltisawesome yep
20:49 zsoltisawesome #moontest
20:49 CraigyDavi NekoGloop, https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=9&amp;t=5305
20:49 NekoGloop I hardly play minetest as of late. As in, I don't. I've been meaning to poke at Vanessa's servers
20:49 CraigyDavi zsoltisawesome, get someone to move it to games subforum :P
20:50 zsoltisawesome i'm too lazy
20:50 zsoltisawesome can you ask and tell them i sent you?
20:50 zsoltisawesome :P
20:50 * NekoGloop pokes at VanessaE to move it to the games subform
20:52 VanessaE zsoltisawesome: fix the topic, [GAME] Moontest! (Back from the Dead!) [GAME]  -->  [GAME] Moontest! (Back from the Dead!) [some version number here]
20:52 WindHero joined #minetest
20:53 zsoltisawesome VanessaE: naming conventions? :S
20:53 VanessaE yeah
20:53 VanessaE https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=15&amp;t=3316
20:53 zsoltisawesome later...
20:53 zsoltisawesome busy with school work
20:54 NekoGloop so hey VanessaE how goes the minetests
20:54 VanessaE it goes.
20:54 zat uh I dont find the titanium mod in github or gitorius
20:55 VanessaE https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=3113
20:56 zat no repo?
20:56 VanessaE guess not
20:56 VanessaE aw hell
20:56 VanessaE ompldr links.
20:57 VanessaE Anyone got a copy that has not been modified?
20:57 NekoGloop is... glooptest not on the new forums?
20:57 VanessaE https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=4345
20:57 zat yes that one I got
20:58 zat titanium I will pass, I dont install things that are not repo'ed.
21:00 NekoGloop does anyone use the crystal glass?
21:01 VanessaE some folks on my survival server use it
21:02 NekoGloop ugh... I'd add the gem encrusting onto tools back if I could find my old gems mod...
21:02 NekoGloop oh, wait, I found it
21:03 NekoGloop VanessaE: is the problem of "lol you can only have X amount of items" a thing?
21:03 VanessaE how do you mean?
21:03 NekoGloop is there a limit to registered items
21:03 VanessaE yes
21:04 VanessaE the default limit is 32766
21:04 VanessaE Dreambuilder currently has a bit over 7100 registered items.
21:04 WindHero if anyone ever reached that cap, I'm pretty sure almost nobody could connect to that server without timing out.
21:05 NekoGloop well something I'm about to add to glooptest might make that 7200.
21:05 WindHero MAYBE it would be possible with Google Fiber....
21:05 VanessaE WindHero: depends on how many new textures are needed to handle those items
21:05 VanessaE NekoGloop: as long as I can turn that feature off.
21:05 NekoGloop haha
21:05 VanessaE I don't like gem encrusting.
21:05 NekoGloop why not
21:05 zsoltisawesome because
21:06 VanessaE doesn't really go with the theme I'm aiming for with dreambuilder
21:06 zsoltisawesome (i have no idea what was said)
21:06 VanessaE gem encrusting seems more "mystical" to me
21:08 NekoGloop can I go on your server? :3
21:08 Megaf Storm!
21:08 blaise yes, good storm
21:09 Vazon Ok server is back up :D
21:09 blaise the first rain band just passed me
21:09 VanessaE NekoGloop: well sure if you want
21:09 NekoGloop IP?
21:09 VanessaE not like you have to ask :P
21:09 VanessaE digitalaudioconcepts.com
21:09 VanessaE pick a port, 30000-30005
21:09 VanessaE depending on which server you want
21:10 blaise nice, people are using my server.. [21:10:13] <minetest> Connected players: memphis, Evan, wetliv, kylebeast244, Tysonrock70, liljnc3, alyssa2345, herodein
21:10 blaise anyone know what would cause mobf not to spawn mobs?
21:11 VanessaE 30000 = Creative, 30001 = Survival, 30002 = Nostalgia, 30003 = MG-Nore, 30004 = Realtest, 30005 = Vanilla
21:11 Megaf ServerThread using 99.9% of CPU
21:11 VanessaE blaise: turn on "secondary" spawning.
21:11 blaise where are the settings again?
21:11 VanessaE blaise:  /mobf
21:11 VanessaE (I think)
21:12 VanessaE run that command and you can change the settings in the GUI
21:12 VanessaE idk what the settings file is though
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21:21 * NekoGloop nibbles on VanessaE's server
21:21 NekoGloop omnomnom
21:22 zat where is that dreambuilder thing?
21:25 NekoGloop VanessaE: I lack interact
21:25 Piggybear87 joined #minetest
21:25 zsoltisawesome "Stupid sheeps! Don't give yourselves a concussion over a female!" http://k12.http.internapcdn.net/k12_vitalst​ream_com/CURRICULUM/376805/CURRENT_RELEASE/​MS2_LIF_05_12_VID_Rams_Butting_Heads.html
21:26 CraigyDavi zat: https://github.com/VanessaE/dreambuilder_game
21:26 zat ah lol its a game lololol
21:26 VanessaE NekoGloop: fixed.
21:27 ImQ009 joined #minetest
21:27 NekoGloop ty
21:27 BrandonReese joined #minetest
21:28 SoniEx2 does minetest support require()?
21:28 NekoGloop oh look moss stone :3
21:29 VanessaE SoniEx2: you mean the Lua call?  should work fine but what are you using it for?
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21:30 SoniEx2 VanessaE, library/toolkit stuff?
21:31 VanessaE well sure, but more specifically :)
21:31 SoniEx2 as in ```local nodeutils = require("nodeutils")```
21:31 VanessaE I mean, what are you doing that can't be done with a dofile() call, for example
21:31 VanessaE oh for something like that, just edit your depends.txt
21:31 SoniEx2 uhh
21:31 VanessaE if nodeutils is a mod anyway
21:31 SoniEx2 I don't wanna make it a mod because that uses the global namespace and stuff
21:31 VanessaE but either way I guess that call should work
21:33 CraigyDavi Plant puns: https://github.com/VanessaE/dreambuilder_game
21:33 CraigyDavi * https://mediacru.sh/n74BVCQGB9_X.png
21:34 VanessaE heh
21:34 NekoGloop VanessaE: how can I harvest vines?
21:35 VanessaE use shears
21:36 VanessaE dreambuilder sorely lacks any documentation :(
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21:47 zsoltisawesome VanessaE: I can write some up some time, if you wish
21:51 VanessaE If you're up to it :)
21:51 SoniEx2 where does minetest look for modules?
21:51 VanessaE there's a metric shitton of content in the game :)
21:51 zsoltisawesome lol
21:51 VanessaE SoniEx2: normally <minetestdir>/mods or ~/.minetest/mods
21:52 zsoltisawesome after i get out of school (3 weeks~) i can do it
21:52 SoniEx2 VanessaE, but that's mods not modules
21:52 SoniEx2 I want the package.path
21:52 VanessaE or <minetestdir>/games/whatever_game_you_run/mods
21:52 VanessaE oh derp
21:52 VanessaE that I'm not sure of
21:52 VanessaE I need to start sleeping more :-/
21:52 SoniEx2 also what is "/" on io.open and stuff?
21:53 VanessaE ...
21:54 SoniEx2 I mean
21:54 SoniEx2 not /
21:54 SoniEx2 / does root
21:54 SoniEx2 but
21:54 SoniEx2 what is the "base" dir on io.open and stuff?
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21:54 VanessaE good question
21:55 zsoltisawesome Root!
21:55 VanessaE I'm not entirely sure where it starts out at
21:55 VanessaE probably root
21:55 SoniEx2 is it /, is it <minetestdir>, is it launch dir?
21:55 zsoltisawesome the root password is "toor" 97.3% of the time!
21:55 SoniEx2 zsoltisawesome, no it's alpine
21:55 ShadowNinja SoniEx2: require works as it does in regular Lua scripts.  Lua doesn't look for mods when you call require.
21:56 zsoltisawesome SoniEx2: on Linux machines, not Mac (Mac sucks)
21:56 SoniEx2 zsoltisawesome, I thought it was alpine on unix machines, not just mac...
21:57 zsoltisawesome nope
21:57 zsoltisawesome its usually tux, or something on linux (i think)
21:57 SoniEx2 ShadowNinja, what's the default package.path?
21:57 zsoltisawesome ^ varies from distro to disrto
21:58 SoniEx2 zsoltisawesome, well I know all iDevices use alpine and mac uses alpine too...
21:58 zsoltisawesome zsoltisawesome: yep!
21:58 zsoltisawesome SoniEx2: you know why?
21:59 SoniEx2 because apple loves alpine?
21:59 SoniEx2 whatever alpine is .-.
21:59 zsoltisawesome alpine is the code name for one of the first OSXs, and they just loved it, so thats been that
22:01 zsoltisawesome and also, alpine is a tree(?)
22:03 Tux[Qyou] yes
22:03 ShadowNinja SoniEx2: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7470117/
22:04 SoniEx2 ShadowNinja, I meant the default minetest package.path
22:04 ShadowNinja SoniEx2: Minetest doesn't touch package.path.
22:04 ShadowNinja And the only mod that I know of that modifies it is the IRC mod.
22:05 SoniEx2 so uhh
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22:05 SoniEx2 C:\Program Files (x86)\Lua5.1\<stuff> on windows?
22:06 ShadowNinja kaeza: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7470130/
22:07 ShadowNinja Maybe.
22:07 ShadowNinja Check the Lua docs.
22:07 ShadowNinja Don't depend on it though.
22:07 VanessaE <kaeza> that code is crap and needs a full rewrite anyway.
22:07 VanessaE :)
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22:08 Broam left #minetest
22:10 SoniEx2 ShadowNinja, how can I get the minetest dir?
22:11 kaeza pong
22:11 ShadowNinja SoniEx2: I used this to get the bin path: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7470152/
22:16 SoniEx2 1. why's minetest part of the global namespace? 2. why's there no minetest.get_bin_dir()?
22:16 ShadowNinja SoniEx2: Where else could it be?  In package.preload?
22:17 ShadowNinja 2. Because nobody added it yet, and there isn't a good use case for it.
22:18 SoniEx2 ShadowNinja, local minetest = require "minetest"
22:18 ShadowNinja With "package.preload.minetest = minetest" you can use "require('minetest')" but that's pointless.
22:19 ShadowNinja You could do "local minetest = minetest", which would be slightly faster and have the same effect of making it local.
22:19 SoniEx2 ShadowNinja, well there's setting package.cpath to minetest.get_bin_dir() maybe?
22:20 SoniEx2 (and package.path to something like <minetestdir>/modules)
22:23 SoniEx2 also it would make it easier to bundle LPeg within mods
22:23 SoniEx2 or something
22:26 SoniEx2 I wonder if I'm talking about #minetest-dev stuff...
22:27 zsoltisawesome if its C++ related, yes
22:30 SoniEx2 then yeah .-.
22:33 zsoltisawesome i love math homework: "4.A.  For Line A – y = x + 11, For Line B – y = x + 11B. More solutions than there are stars in the sky"
22:33 zsoltisawesome :D
22:34 zat VanessaE: you did optimizations to plants_lib yesterday? I pulled the lates changes and now it seems to go faster.
22:35 VanessaE I did nothing much of note
22:35 VanessaE just removed a bunch of debug calls
22:35 zat is might have helped
22:36 VanessaE the big problem is the block evaluator
22:36 VanessaE it simply can't go any faster without being rewritten into C++ or something
22:37 VanessaE I started a rewrite of that last night in a different branch, but threw it out after I realized it was a pointless effort
22:37 zat An API for mods in C++ would be soooo useful...
22:37 VanessaE (because each mod that adds an object *must* re-evaluate the mapblock after objects are added, otherwise those objects can be overwritten)
22:38 SoniEx2 use package.loadlib
22:38 SoniEx2 it can do C at least
22:39 VanessaE I don't code in C/C++
22:39 VanessaE at least not enough to be able to rewrite plants_lib
22:39 VanessaE plus there is no C++ API
22:39 VanessaE so there's nothing to hook into to do the work
22:39 zat If it can do C it can C++, the code doesnt matter as long as the compiled object is compatible/callable.
22:39 zat or whatever it is said.
22:40 SoniEx2 it's gonna be a pain to compile and run on windows
22:40 ShadowNinja VanessaE: There is a C(++) API.  See how the IRC mod loads luasocket.
22:41 VanessaE ShadowNinja: I mean an official modding API for C++ calls
22:41 zat I will see if I mod moretrees myself to make it only spawn saplings with v7
22:41 zsoltisawesome What?
22:41 SoniEx2 ShadowNinja, they mean doing minetest mods from C/C++, not loading C code from Lua (which can be done with package.loadlib and stuff)
22:41 VanessaE you shouldn't need to, zat.  just make sure mapgen v7 spawns default:dirt_with_grass
22:42 zat VanessaE: my idea is it wont depend on plants_lib anymore
22:42 zat isnt that possible?
22:43 VanessaE sure but you'll lose a LOT of the controls plants_lib offers
22:43 zat I just want trees that grow. <.<
22:43 VanessaE density, nearness to certain nodes, and a whole host of stuff
22:43 VanessaE things moretrees needs
22:43 zat is plants_lib needed for the actual growth?
22:44 VanessaE no
22:44 VanessaE well yeah sorta
22:44 VanessaE the saplings are turned into trees via an ABM
22:44 VanessaE and plants_lib handles that
22:44 VanessaE but that part can be rewritten too
22:46 zsoltisawesome who wants to help with moontest?
22:51 zsoltisawesome I hate my PC right now...
22:54 zat VanessaE: what about just making new trees grow the same way the saplings of farming do? http://wiki.minetest.net/Farming
22:55 VanessaE moretrees trees use L-systems models
22:55 VanessaE afaik farming still does it the hard way
22:55 VanessaE If you wanna rewrite the growing control ABMs go right ahead, you won't lose much there
22:56 VanessaE it's the mapgen algorithm that's most critical
22:56 VanessaE lose plants_lib and you will lose a lot of the controls that it offers
22:56 zat I dont think I can do much now lol
22:57 VanessaE besides which,
22:57 VanessaE farming doesn't have trees
22:57 VanessaE farming_plus does thoug
22:57 VanessaE though*
22:58 zat plus complement the other one?
22:59 VanessaE ?
22:59 VanessaE oh, yeah
22:59 VanessaE farming_plus is sort of an add-on for the default farming mod
22:59 VanessaE when I last looked, it still built the trees up using discrete add_node() calls
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23:01 zat how about making moretrees work on top of farming_plus?
23:01 zat I juuuuust waaaant treeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees!!!!!!!!!!!
23:01 VanessaE nope.avi
23:01 VanessaE just install plants_lib (without the rest of plantlife) and moretrees, and configure moretrees to only enable the one or two extra tree types that you want
23:02 VanessaE you'll end up with only a couple of active mapgen hooks then
23:02 VanessaE so you shouldn't notice a significant change in mapgen speed at that point
23:02 zat I will do that
23:02 VanessaE I discovered that dreambuilder has over 120 active mapgen hooks (!!!)
23:03 VanessaE how many active mapgen checks those boil down to is unclear
23:03 VanessaE I'd say about half that as a rough guess
23:11 MinetestBot GIT: ShadowNinja commited to minetest/minetest: Make print() NUL-safe 34d872628d 2014-05-15T19:09:47-04:00 http://git.io/bU-w_Q
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