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IRC log for #minetest, 2014-03-28

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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01:24 PilzAdam <domtron> Each player can hold metadata, right? Is that metadata persistent for a server/world? And how dose one modify it. I'm looking through the API but I'm not finding the information. <- no
01:25 PilzAdam only nodes and itemstacks have metadata
01:25 domtron ah, ok thanks.
01:28 domtron so if I wanted to have persistence between server startups for player data my mod would need to save that to the world folder or something similar?
01:28 PilzAdam yes
01:29 PilzAdam my stats mod does something like this: https://github.com/PilzAdam​/stats/blob/master/init.lua
01:35 iqualfragile_ PilzAdam: there should be some kind of "right" way of doing that as its a common requirement
01:35 PilzAdam that is the right way
01:35 iqualfragile_ maybe even across worlds for local games or something
01:36 PilzAdam for cross-world you could save it in the mod directory
01:37 domtron thanks for the link. I was about to ask another related question but I should find the answer in your code.
01:37 iqualfragile_ PilzAdam: as (i think) celeron55 said: it needs to be easier to do the right way then to do the wrong way or something like that
01:37 iqualfragile_ have you for example taken a look at the hud mod?
01:37 iqualfragile_ it stores one single number in a file
01:37 PilzAdam no
01:38 iqualfragile_ for EACH player
01:40 domtron that does sound rather bad...
01:42 domtron PilzAdam: The code didn't answer my question. Will the code you linked work on windows since it uses '/' for the path joining instead of '\'?
01:42 PilzAdam / works in windows
01:46 domtron is that auto corrected by lua JIT, the engine, or does windows handle it correctly. Because I was under the impression that when you use the wrong slash for file access bad things happen.
01:46 iqualfragile_ domtron: uhm, i guess you should fix a bigger problem first
01:46 iqualfragile_ you seem to have (mistakenly) installed windows on your machine
01:46 iqualfragile_ do you need help with fixing that problem?
01:46 PilzAdam in windows it doesnt matter if you use \ or /
01:47 domtron hehe, nope i'm a linuxer all the way. ;) But I do want my code to be cross platform.
01:47 iqualfragile_ domtron: quick'n dirty: http://goodbye-microsoft.com/
01:47 iqualfragile_ ooh, ok
01:48 iqualfragile_ (yep, that thing actually works)
01:48 domtron heh
01:48 domtron ok thanks PilzAdam.
01:48 PilzAdam iqualfragile_, thanks for a link to a site with a giant noscript logo and no content
01:49 domtron is your preferred distro Debian?
01:52 domtron @iqualfragile_
01:57 us`0gb NICE! I might pirate a copy of Windows just so I can test that web site.
02:16 us`0gb It looks like the smart phone I'm getting will only have 2G service. That's probably not going to work for the Minetest client.
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03:59 Eater4 Hey o
04:11 us`0gb Hey Eater4!
04:12 Eater4 Hi
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05:15 Eater4 Hello
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05:46 ShadowNinja Eater4: You should rename the areasmaster folder to just areas.
05:46 ShadowNinja And use sprunge.us or similar for pasting.
05:47 ShadowNinja (NOT "OneNote")
05:56 enchilado sprunge.us <3
05:56 enchilado I just wish I could use it from my shell
05:59 enchilado Unless...
05:59 enchilado ShadowNinja: do you know... is there a way to use sprunge.us without curl?
06:03 ShadowNinja enchilado: Um, maybe wget has an option to post data?
06:04 ShadowNinja enchilado: Or use a python script.
06:06 webshinra (and why not curl?)
06:06 enchilado webshinra: I don't have curl
06:07 enchilado ShadowNinja: hrm, I'll try to find something regarding the former suggestion, thanks.
06:07 enchilado I wouldn't know how to do anything like that with python.
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06:09 ShadowNinja enchilado: ix.io has a Python script, you can probably tweak it to work.
06:10 webshinra enchilado: yes, but why?
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06:18 ShadowNinja webshinra: Shell account without it installed.
06:28 webshinra finaly, i think prefer not to understand.
06:28 webshinra +i
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06:49 webshinra La couleur pleutre?
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08:19 eroge joined #minetest
08:20 eroge So whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat's uuuuuuuuuuuuup?
08:20 eroge I really can't understand how comes to be possible that there's so many people here and no one is talking.
08:20 eroge Just think about it.
08:21 eroge It's really weird.
08:21 eroge All of them joined, just for the sake of being silent.
08:22 Menche ...or leave their clients connected when they're away
08:22 eroge I won't say that doesn't make sense, but look at the connected people list.
08:22 eroge There is 100 of them.
08:24 eroge All of them away?
08:25 Menche apparently
08:25 eroge Even then, even if all of them are away...
08:25 eroge Why staying connected?
08:25 Menche annoyingly, most don't mark themselves as away...
08:25 Menche could stay connected for scrollback and to get notifications and messages
08:25 VanessaE many of us run clients that are detatched.
08:26 VanessaE or which are running on computers that are deliberately left on 24/7
08:26 eroge Keeps being creepy.
08:26 eroge Imagine yourself.
08:26 eroge A party.
08:26 eroge 100 people.
08:26 eroge No one talking.
08:26 VanessaE nope.  Imagine yourself at a party, 100 names in the guest book, but only one or two people in the room.
08:27 VanessaE the rest signed left their cups in their little holders on the wall and signed out
08:27 VanessaE :P
08:27 eroge That keeps being weird as hell.
08:28 VanessaE naw
08:28 VanessaE just ignore the user list entirely.
08:29 VanessaE pay attention to who is actually active.
08:29 VanessaE also, haven't seen you around much, Menche
08:29 Menche been mainly in #minetest-classic
08:29 Menche I don't play 0.4 a lot anymore
08:29 VanessaE ah
08:30 ImQ009 joined #minetest
08:31 arsdragonfly1 joined #minetest
08:31 eroge I can't but to think that you two have an interesting kind of relationship.
08:31 Menche wut
08:32 eroge Yeah, think about it.
08:32 eroge These two people.
08:32 eroge Knew eachother in the minetest irc channel.
08:32 eroge "Haven't seen you around much".
08:32 eroge "Been mainly in other place".
08:33 eroge "Ah".
08:33 VanessaE actually we know each other from the forums :P
08:33 Menche most minetest players who've been around in minetest for a while know each other's usernames :P
08:33 eroge That ruins my melodramatic story.
08:33 Menche you get to know who the more active community members are
08:33 VanessaE "Morning Sam."  "Morning Ralph."
08:34 eroge <Menche> I don't play 0.4 a lot anymore
08:34 eroge <VanessaE> ah
08:34 eroge Intense drama.
08:35 eroge That's what I see there.
08:35 eroge Deep emotional intense drama.
08:35 Menche lol
08:36 VanessaE ok, no one got my joke :P
08:37 eroge That's not true.
08:37 Menche #minetest-classic is even more dead :P
08:37 eroge You did.
08:37 eroge Not really.
08:37 eroge I wrote there.
08:37 eroge You didn't reply.
08:37 eroge Made me sad.
08:37 eroge Cried the entire night.
08:38 Menche lol
08:38 Menche well, what you wrote there seemed to be addressed to another member, so...
08:38 Menche note that #minetest-classic has 12 online whereas #minetest has a nice round 100
08:39 Menche ...darn, messed up the nice round number, Hirato_!
08:39 Hirato_ joined #minetest
08:39 Menche :D
08:39 eroge Hey Hirato what's up bro?
08:39 Menche probably away
08:40 Menche detached clients/bouncers usually reconnect automatically
08:40 eroge Then the only difference between here and minetest-classic is Vanessa.
08:41 * Menche wishes people would actually mark themselves as away when they are away
08:42 eroge Hey hey.
08:42 eroge Tell me which is the correct one:
08:42 eroge A) "All these people".
08:42 eroge B) "All this people".
08:42 Menche A)
08:42 eroge Gotcha.
08:43 eroge Then, does all these people ever talk?
08:43 Menche *do
08:43 Menche sometimes
08:43 eroge Gotcha.
08:43 Menche #minetest gets rather heated arguments at times
08:43 eroge You are on the good side or on the bad side on those?
08:43 Menche good side of course :D
08:44 Menche ...a part of the reason I'm not on here a whole lot anymore
08:44 eroge Arguments about what?
08:45 VanessaE oh boy do the arguments get heated..
08:45 Menche especially when someone brings up politics or religion
08:45 VanessaE witness when Jordach and I get at each other :D
08:45 VanessaE and THOSE are about the game!
08:45 Menche or about why $SOME_COMMIT didn't make it into upstream
08:46 eroge I knew Minetest was a left politics subliminal messages carrier.
08:46 eroge Was too obvious.
08:46 VanessaE hah
08:47 Menche ah, the wars about mese and lava...
08:47 eroge Heard they are going to put Romney as an enemy mob soon.
08:47 eroge But hey, that's just rumors.
08:48 Menche would be somewhat less divisive to make Ballmer an enemy mob
08:48 Menche could throw chairs and yell "Developers!"
08:49 VanessaE heh
08:49 VanessaE right
08:50 eroge Still waiting for you both to tell me what the arguments are about.
08:50 Menche someone requests the merge of some code, it is rejected, argues
08:51 VanessaE eroge: the one I referred to was over the skin vs. model format and how Jordach changed some things around in a way that broke things
08:51 Menche someone makes a change (mese -> mese crystals, non-renewing lava) and half the community loves it and half the community hates it
08:52 eroge Democracy does not work, sick of telling it.
08:52 VanessaE better that than a dictatorship.
08:52 VanessaE how was it that Churchill put it?
08:53 VanessaE Democracy is the worst form of government ever devised, except for all of the others?
08:53 VanessaE :P
08:54 eroge Then you both totally should rate my english in a scale from 1 to 10, yes.
08:54 eroge Yes, that clearly is the best thing to do.
08:54 Menche IMO, a system where one person makes all the final decisions is best for a small software community
08:54 VanessaE I try not to correct anyone's english too much, because mine isn't all that much better :P
08:54 VanessaE Menche: we tried that.  it didn't work at all.
08:55 Menche I've seen plenty of arguments over the "core dev" system
08:55 VanessaE even less got done then, and when anything got done, the one person doing the work always complained of overload.
08:55 eroge Didn't work not because the system doesn't work, but because the leader is not a good one.
08:56 eroge Still waiting those english ratings.
08:56 eroge We'll miss you Keza.
08:58 VanessaE anyway, you could have the best leader in the world running a project, but if he can't handle the workload, or doesn't have the time, or lacks interest in in the project, then you can't expect that single leader to be able to lead.
08:58 eroge Then he wouldn't be the best leader in the world.
08:58 VanessaE that's why we have a core dev team where each member is responsible for a subset of the engine and/or default game
08:59 eroge That characteristics woul make for a terrible leader.
08:59 VanessaE I mean the best leader quantitatively and qualitatively.
09:00 eroge A good leader is also a leader that cares.
09:00 VanessaE your argument makes it sound like the same sorta thing as if yo say that the best driver in the world never gets in an auto accident, or the best doctor never screws up, or the best baseball player never gets a strike.
09:01 VanessaE people make mistakes, they fail, or they lose interest.
09:01 VanessaE that doesn't make them any less good.  it makes them human.
09:01 kaeza joined #minetest
09:02 crazyR hi all
09:02 Menche hello
09:03 VanessaE hi crazyR
09:03 eroge People make mistakes, of course, but a good leader will always make less than majorities, and will make for a more productive work.
09:04 VanessaE but you propose "a good leader" that's doing *all* of the work though.
09:05 eroge Democracies doesn't work because of the wrong belief in that majorities have some kind of supreme knowledge and ability when it comes to take decisions.
09:05 eroge Of course not.
09:05 Menche well, not *all* of the work
09:05 VanessaE we don't really have a democracy going on here as it is
09:05 eroge A good leader is a leader that commands the work, not that "does all of it".
09:05 Menche someone who makes final decisions, on code sometimes written by others
09:05 VanessaE the two main leads (c55 for the engine, pilzadam for the main game) don't really rule their roosts by consensus
09:06 VanessaE PA pretty much throws everyone else's ideas out the window anyway :P
09:07 VanessaE and c55 doesn't really have to do a lot of that because there's not a lot of community call for new features in the engine, as such
09:08 eroge I wasn't talking about Minetest in particular, but about majorities vs minorities in general.
09:08 VanessaE (and when there is, I guess most folks would focus their efforts on the one person who would generally be responsible for that part of the engine, e.g. if it's a shader or visual thing, talk to RBA.  Network, talk to sapier, etc)
09:08 eroge But even then, there's something that a good leader here would do.
09:08 eroge And that would be requesting for english ratings.
09:08 VanessaE well general/political minorities vs majorities is an even bigger problem.
09:09 arsdragonfly joined #minetest
09:09 VanessaE If you go with a dictatorship, you invariably end up with North Korea.
09:10 eroge That's so wrong.
09:10 VanessaE if you go with a pure democracy, you invariably end up with...eh, not sure who (not the US, we're a republic)
09:10 Menche with the difference being that you can fork the program, not that fragmentation helps the community at all
09:11 VanessaE you have to protect the people (all of them) from the government, and you have to protect the minority from the majority at the same time.  otherwise you end up with the USA.
09:11 eroge Minorities leading is truly far from a dictatorship.
09:11 eroge We are talking about two totally different things.
09:12 VanessaE one person leading, making all the decisions, no matter how fucked up they are.
09:12 eroge Majorities should never take decisions on what's good for the country.
09:12 eroge With that, you end with Venezuela.
09:12 eroge You end with Argentina.
09:12 eroge You end with Bolivia.
09:13 VanessaE you are guaranteed to end up with North Korea or something very similar.  No elections, just dictators.
09:13 eroge You end with people living in the misery and voting and being grateful to the people that put their in that position in the first place.
09:13 eroge And that's cause people is just not prepared at all to decide.
09:14 eroge Is simple as that.
09:14 VanessaE majorities should make the decisions on what's good for the country *if they're properly educated* and not led astray by lies in their countries' media.
09:14 VanessaE and that includes the religious institutions.
09:15 VanessaE stop filling peoples' heads with bullshit and start teaching them to think rationally and they CAN govern themselves just fine.
09:15 eroge Of course meritocracy is better than democracy, but truth is, that if from a place a country can not started to be constructed, that's from voting.
09:15 VanessaE well what would you have then?
09:16 VanessaE a dictatorship where you have someone like Kim Jong Un running the show?
09:16 eroge Of course not.
09:16 eroge Stop thinking I support communism.
09:16 VanessaE I didn't say you did,.
09:16 VanessaE I did not propose a socio-economic model.
09:16 VanessaE how pray tell do you plan to put a good leader in place?
09:17 VanessaE I'm talking about the person.
09:17 eroge I actually do think a leader should emerge from voting.
09:17 VanessaE there are only two ways - either through some kind of military force, or the people have to appoint him.
09:17 VanessaE and voting implies a democracy.
09:18 eroge Of course, we are living in a democracy, leader emerges from democracy.
09:18 VanessaE no, we are living in a republic, not a democracy.
09:18 VanessaE what you propose is a direct democracy
09:18 Menche well, can be called a representative democracy, as opposed to a direct or pure democracy
09:18 VanessaE elect by popular vote
09:18 eroge I actually do not live in the USA.
09:18 eroge I'm from Argentina.
09:19 eroge We call representative democracy a "democracy".
09:19 eroge And that's how I've been using the term all the time.
09:19 VanessaE Menche: and I read something today, some US congressman put forward a bill proposing to do away with the electoral college.  only about 100 years late I think.
09:19 VanessaE eroge: it's not a democracy at all.
09:19 Menche which IMO would be a good thing
09:20 VanessaE the people of the USA do not elect their leaders.
09:20 Menche at least get rid of the winner-takes-all policy on electoral votes
09:21 lordawe joined #minetest
09:21 eroge What do you mean with that you there do not elect your leaders?
09:21 VanessaE we vote for who we want to lead, but our Electoral College decides on their own who to actually appoint to office, based on those votes.  More often than not, the College's votes do not match the popular vote (though the peoples' choice usually still makes it in by pure statistics)
09:21 eroge Oh, yes.
09:21 eroge I thought you meant that.
09:21 VanessaE what is it, 535 votes in the College?
09:21 VanessaE I forget
09:22 * VanessaE looks at Menche
09:22 Menche idk
09:22 VanessaE some low 500's range anyway
09:22 VanessaE and each state, save 1 or 2, is winner-takes all
09:22 eroge I'm truly still waiting for that english raitings.
09:22 Menche IMO it turns presidential campaigns into a game
09:22 eroge I'm sweating from expectation.
09:22 lordawe hello
09:23 Menche see who can campaign the most in the "swing" states
09:23 VanessaE that means that if say 5 of the state's votes should go to candidate A, and 7 to candidate B based on the popular vote, ALL 12 of that state's votes go to B in the final count.
09:23 Menche hello
09:23 VanessaE eroge: I'd give you a 9/10 for English.
09:24 eroge Yay!
09:24 VanessaE so all 12 of that state's votes go to B in the example and 0 go to A, so A gets zippo even though proportionally he should have gotten some representation there.  That's how we get those swing states Menche mentioned.
09:25 Menche iirc florida was the main swing state last election
09:25 VanessaE some states have a tendency to lean conservative/Republican one cycle, then liberal/Democrat another cycle, and all of that state's Electoral College votes end up going to one candidate or the other, despite what the popular vote says should happen
09:25 Menche the popular vote split was like 49/51 or closer
09:25 Menche whereas the electoral vote had a clear difference
09:26 eroge That technically is democracy.
09:26 VanessaE yeah, about like that.
09:26 VanessaE eroge: no, it is not.
09:26 VanessaE the Electoral College decides entirely on their own
09:26 VanessaE they are free and legal to ignore the popular vote entirely.
09:26 VanessaE and sometimes they do.
09:26 VanessaE and their "votes" do not behave the same way as the votes the populace turn in
09:27 VanessaE it's hard to explain because I'm not 100% sure how they DO work :P
09:27 VanessaE other than what I've already described
09:27 Menche iirc the electoral college system was made because of transportation and logistics difficulties
09:27 VanessaE yes
09:27 Menche kinda obsolete now IMO
09:27 VanessaE but today, well, we don't exactly need that
09:28 eroge Do not know what you mean by "ignore the popular vote entirely", but the electoral college system is actually considered democracy.
09:28 VanessaE 350 million votes could be counted in just seconds if this government truly wanted it.
09:28 eroge Yes, of course, we here could say that because of populism this is not a democracy.
09:28 eroge But that's not how it works.
09:28 eroge It keeps being democracy.
09:28 eroge Failed democracy.
09:29 VanessaE eroge: the Electoral College, the 535-some-odd representatives who actually appoint the President of the United States, are free to ignore the will and popular vote of the People of the US when making their decisions as to who they want to vote for
09:29 VanessaE on a technical level, maybe you could call it a democracy, but on a functional level, it sure as hell is NOT.
09:29 eroge Never heard of something like that.
09:29 eroge Did that ever happen?
09:29 VanessaE it's a corporatocracy at best.
09:29 VanessaE it happens every election cycle.
09:30 VanessaE well-known fact of this country
09:30 Menche it's rare but has happened that the loser of the popular vote wins the electoral
09:30 Menche forget exactly which ones
09:30 eroge I thought you meant something aside of the "10 vote, 7 vote someone, 3 vote some other, 10 votes go to the first one" thing.
09:31 VanessaE I don't remember if the College is made up of members of the US House of Representatives or the US Senate, or both or neither, but I do know they are politicians who are bought and paid for by large corporations.
09:31 VanessaE Menche:  didn't one of Bush Jr's terms come out that way, actually?
09:31 Menche idk
09:31 Menche I know there was a big thing about "hanging chads"
09:32 Menche or was that sr.
09:32 VanessaE anyway, I've seen it happen in a few state's individual counts every cycle.
09:32 VanessaE that was Jr.  first term I believe.
09:34 john_minetest joined #minetest
09:34 eroge By the way, has any of two ever seen Exio4 online and talking here?
09:34 VanessaE eroge: corruption and bribery are so rampant in the US government that the US Congress only has something like a 15% approval rating right now
09:34 VanessaE eroge: sure, from time to time
09:34 eroge When you see him, please tell him that eroge "le manda un besito".
09:34 Menche doesn't one of the bots have a !tell command?
09:35 Menche or something like that
09:35 VanessaE ~tell Exio4 "[03-28 05:34] <eroge> When you see him, please tell him that eroge le manda un besito."
09:35 ShadowBot VanessaE: O.K.
09:35 VanessaE there. :)
09:35 eroge Great.
09:36 eroge Still waiting your raitings, Menche.
09:36 aheinecke joined #minetest
09:36 lordawe Hello guys, can somebody help me with running MT049 on W7Pro64bit?
09:37 eroge No.
09:37 eroge I mean of course!
09:37 * Menche can't really help much there, been a while since he's run MT on windows
09:38 john_minetest lordawe: It should work by downloading, unzipping and executing "minetest.exe" in the "bin" folder.
09:38 eroge John was reading everything.
09:38 john_minetest ?
09:38 lordawe I am not newbie but i am not a programmer
09:38 lordawe see: http://ulozto.net/xB2XA7rC/minetest049-7z
09:39 VanessaE WAT
09:39 VanessaE that's not official
09:39 VanessaE delete it
09:39 lordawe i have uploaded my current MT with all the mods I intend to use
09:39 VanessaE get it from minetest.net
09:39 VanessaE oh whew
09:39 eroge Vanessa god damn it let him get his viruses.
09:39 john_minetest lordawe: Get it from the official website at http://minetest.net/download
09:39 lordawe it is for you to download and chceck wher error could be
09:39 VanessaE I thought you were referencing some re-packaged-by-someone-else copy.
09:39 lordawe lol
09:40 john_minetest lordawe: What happens when you double-click the exe?
09:40 john_minetest Any error messages?
09:40 VanessaE well I use Linux so I can't test that.
09:40 eroge Get it from the official website at http://eroge.ero/download
09:40 lordawe it is sfan5's or Blockmen's version from git
09:40 lordawe it runs well but!
09:40 lordawe when I run it as a server and
09:41 lordawe I run another instance of it on the same machine (different folder of course)
09:41 lordawe I play well also with my son over the LAN, but suddenly
09:41 arsdragonfly joined #minetest
09:42 lordawe after some time it stops to communicate with the server and I cannot build/delete go far from the current place
09:43 lordawe it gives no error, it is not marked as not responding app
09:43 Menche does the server console say anything interesting?
09:43 lordawe it started with 047 version of MT
09:43 eroge [eroge@la-netbook ~]$ anything interesting
09:43 eroge Come one, laugh.
09:43 eroge It was a good one.
09:44 Menche (menche@menche-laptop) (~) % echo 'anything interesting'
09:44 eroge Nah, you ruined it.
09:44 eroge Go home.
09:44 john_minetest [john@metis ~]$ echo "writing in CLISPEAK is so old"
09:44 lordawe no, I just play and then it stops respond
09:45 john_minetest And "metis" is a much cooler hostname that <name>-laptop :P
09:45 Menche the server or the client?
09:45 lordawe last few lines from debug txt:
09:45 lordawe 20:25:58: ACTION[ServerThread]: singleplayer digs default:dirt_with_grass at (-49,17,18)
09:45 lordawe 20:26:00: ACTION[ServerThread]: singleplayer digs default:dirt_with_grass at (-50,18,19)
09:45 lordawe 20:26:03: ACTION[ServerThread]: singleplayer places node default:dirt_with_grass at (-50,18,19)
09:45 lordawe 20:26:04: ACTION[ServerThread]: singleplayer places node default:dirt_with_grass at (-50,19,18)
09:45 lordawe was kicked by ShadowBot: Paste flood detected. Use a pastebin like pastebin.ubuntu.com or gist.github.com.
09:45 eroge PFFFFF
09:45 john_minetest :P
09:45 eroge That was a good one.
09:45 lordawe joined #minetest
09:45 lordawe and that'S all
09:45 john_minetest These lines mean that you are still connected.
09:45 Menche try setting debug_log_level=3
09:45 john_minetest or, wait...
09:45 lordawe but it is not respondinf
09:46 john_minetest Singleplayer nickname in multiplayer?
09:46 VanessaE lordawe: next time use a pastebin
09:46 lordawe no :)
09:46 VanessaE the bot cut you off before you got more than 4 lines pasted.
09:46 lordawe I see, but I am too lazy :)
09:46 Menche make sure it's the debug.txt from the *server*
09:47 arsdragonfly Hosting a server overnight on my phone makes it laggy next morning, "top" shows that mmcqd is taking up many resources
09:47 arsdragonfly Any ideas?
09:47 lordawe ok, I can get it remotely, now I am at work, w8 pls
09:47 eroge God damn, stop being non off-topic.
09:49 VanessaE server on a phone?  O_o
09:50 lordawe http://pastebin.com/JFSe73WE
09:50 lordawe it says the same, suddenly it stops respond and then I closed the server by ctrl+c
09:50 VanessaE *shrug* looks okay to me
09:50 eroge Lordware's problem ruined my life.
09:51 lordawe I think it started after I used your home decor mod VanessaE, but I am not 100% sure
09:51 VanessaE I doubt it, homedecor just adds a bunch of nodes.
09:51 VanessaE nothing active there
09:52 Menche try turning debug_log_level up to 4?
09:52 VanessaE however
09:52 VanessaE I see MOBF/animals modpack
09:52 VanessaE that mod is known to cause problems on some installs
09:52 VanessaE remove it and try again
09:52 lordawe yes,
09:52 lordawe I want animals and NPCs but only good - no zombies etc...
09:53 lordawe so I configured animals modpack manualy
09:54 enchilado webshinra: why doesn't it have curl?
09:54 eroge enchilado: deleted it cause was running out of disk space
09:54 lordawe VanessaE, do I have to create a new World with animals mod disabled?
09:55 VanessaE no
09:55 eroge Sí.
09:55 Menche no, but you may want to
09:55 VanessaE you can just disable the mod in your world config
09:55 Menche there will be a lot of undefined entities floating around
09:55 lordawe PS: Not all mods are active, but these are: animals_modpack, boats, bridges, carts, castle, coloredwood, compass, cottages, diamonds, factions, farming_plus, growing_cactus, growing_trees, habitat, homedecor_modpack, maptools, mccarpet, mg, moreblocks, moretrees, mp_worldedit, plantlife, plants, player_textures, signs, snow, snowdrift, tbm, throwing, tnt, trash_can, travelnet, trees,...
09:55 lordawe ...unifieddyes, unified_inventory, u_skins
09:55 enchilado eroge: I'm not able to delete or add things
09:56 eroge enchilado: ¿Y eso por qué?
09:56 enchilado And why something?
09:56 enchilado I don't speak Spanish.
09:56 eroge Then why "enchilado"?
09:56 enchilado Why not?
09:56 eroge Why yes?
09:58 VanessaE lordawe: from that list, get rid of signs entirely.  homedecor provides it in the signs_lib mod included in its modpack, and disable animals temporarily
09:58 enchilado eroge: no real reason.
09:58 VanessaE and I'm not sure if growing_trees is still workable or not
09:58 enchilado I needed a name and I used this one.
09:59 eroge That's what she said.
10:00 lordawe Ty VanessaE, I'll try it.
10:00 JamesTait Good morning all!  Happy Friday, and happy Something On A Stick Day! :-D
10:00 VanessaE hey James
10:01 enchilado JamesTait: good evening.
10:01 arsdragonfly VanessaE : yup. Will be available a few hours later since i haven't got back home yet.
10:01 JamesTait Hi VanessaE, enchilado!
10:02 eroge Still working on that, Jamey?
10:03 VanessaE I'm off.  night all.
10:04 lordawe gn8
10:04 n joined #minetest
10:05 eroge I'm on, day all.
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11:17 Exio4 I once created OpenGL bindings for MLton to toy around with 3D graphics, and the resulting program ran faster than the C++-based model I had used as a reference, with just 10% of the code.
11:22 CheapSeth joined #minetest
11:35 Megaf Morning James, happy day before saturday
11:40 * Exio4 hugs Megaf
11:48 PilzAdam joined #minetest
11:49 john_minetest cya
11:50 Exio4 :D
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12:22 * Megaf gives Exio4 a candy
12:22 Exio4 aww
12:22 crazyR does anyone know what would cause the item_frames mod to crash the server when a player(not the player who placed it) right clicks it?
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12:25 Exio4 a lua error could make that happen
12:25 Krock crazyR, for those things are lua errors helpful
12:26 crazyR just about to replicate it and see if i can find the error for it. couldnt spot an error last night but i was half a sleep  :P
12:26 Krock debug.txt?
12:26 iqualfragile just look throught your log
12:27 sfan5 meow
12:27 sfan5 hi everyone
12:27 * Krock gives a kitten to sfan5
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12:50 * Krock installs 204 windows updates in a row
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12:58 sfan5 Krock: Y U NO USE Linux?
12:59 Krock sfan5, cuz I liek waitin' 20 min' for installin those updatez
12:59 sfan5 lol
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13:23 Krock !help
13:23 MinetestBot https://github.com/sfan5/minetestb​ot-modules/blob/master/COMMANDS.md
13:24 * Krock finally marks that site as bookmark
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13:41 PilzAdam Hello everyone!
13:42 crazyR hi]
13:45 Krock hi
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13:57 arsdragonfly !up arsenalmp.no-ip.org 16000
13:57 MinetestBot arsenalmp.no-ip.org:16000 is up (470ms)
13:57 arsdragonfly all welcome, featuring some cool mods :-P
13:57 crazyR anyone had experiance converting an existing my server to use LEVELDB instead of SQLITE yet, i know its in the compile options but not sure how best to go about doing it or even if i should do it at all
14:08 Krock crazyR, you want to convert sqlite to leveldb? hold on, gonna look how I did it
14:11 Krock crazyR, <minetest_server_binary> --server --migrate leveldb --worldname "<worldname_to_convert>"
14:11 Krock after that is done, you can delete the old map.sqlit
14:12 crazyR so if i do a make clean then recompile using the leveldb option, the i use the migrate command, or do i just do the migrate without the upgrade?
14:12 crazyR */s the / then
14:13 Krock get a leveldb supporting binary< and migrate the old map into the new.
14:13 crazyR brill. thanks
14:13 crazyR is it worth it?
14:13 crazyR lol
14:14 Krock for me it was... but only because sfan5 provides win32 builds
14:14 Krock else I wouldn't use it (windows user=
14:14 crazyR ahh, mines on linux haha
14:14 crazyR well worth a try, i got a full backup for if i break it
14:15 Krock ye, backups are a must-have
14:19 crazyR yeah got daily backups for the last month
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14:21 Krock uh..daily updates would make for me 5.4 GB space use (of 7z-compressed data)
14:23 Krock sfan5!
14:23 crazyR lol, mine are ftped to a hugeee server i use for random things. the mtserver only has about 30gb space atm
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14:39 celeron55 https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=1825
14:39 celeron55 could some server owner provide an updated content for that post?
14:40 celeron55 that is starting to get really old and probably isn't relevant anymore
14:49 Krock hmm my server wether popular nor online right now...gonna help anyway
14:52 Krock block_gen_distance = 3, block_send_distance = 3, block_sim_per_client = 6, ..per_server = 35, active_block_range = 2, obj_send_range_blocks = 2
14:53 celeron55 block_send_distance = 3 is quite aggressive
14:54 Krock yes, 2 does it well too
14:54 celeron55 i would guess players will complain of not seeing far
14:54 crazyR hmm mine is set to 9 if im not mistaken
14:55 Krock 9 * 16 is quite alot
14:55 crazyR cnt quite remember though
14:55 crazyR 1 min
14:55 celeron55 the default is 9
14:55 celeron55 it doesn't hurt as long as the server isn't bandwidth-limited
14:55 Krock 9 as default..ok then I already noticed about this in earlytimes
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14:57 crazyR actually its at 10, bandwidth isnt an issue for me though, that siad i should really get to know what effect each setting has.
14:57 crazyR most things are left at default at the moment
15:00 crazyR hmm when compiling with leveldb is there suppose to be a directory here [PATH]/minetest/-ENABLE_LEVELDB its throwing a cmake error saying that path doesnt exist
15:02 Krock crazyR, gonna beat you with 200 warnings and 5 errors while building minetest mapper c++
15:03 crazyR lol im just curious have a missed something
15:04 crazyR cmake . -DRUN_IN_PLACE=1 -BUILD_SERVER -ENABLE_CURL -ENABLE_FREETYPE -ENABLE_LEVELDB  <-- thats the command i used to compile
15:04 crazyR CMake Error: The source directory "/[PATH]/minetest/-ENABLE_LEVELDB" does not exist. <---thats the error
15:05 Krock add a space between / and -ENABLE
15:05 Krock ehm I feel windows-user fail
15:05 crazyR lol
15:06 crazyR there is no /
15:06 Krock put that leveldb thingy inside thatminetest folderlike curl
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15:10 crazyR ahh i understand, think i may need to define where the leveldb is installed though as its been installed via aptitude so it will be somewhere else on the server
15:12 PenguinDad cmake . -DRUN_IN_PLACE=1 -DBUILD_SERVER=1 -DENABLE_CURL=ON -DENABLE_FREETYPE=ON -DENABLE_LEVELDB=ON
15:12 PenguinDad ^ crazyR this is the command you want
15:13 crazyR right Thanks.. crazyR walks away with a D hat on his head, feeling sorry for himself.  :D
15:28 harrison when i seize power my first official act will be to revise the DSM to reclassify extraversion as a personality disorder
15:28 harrison so we can tax it
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15:33 celeron55 updated https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=23107
15:35 crazyR ./minetestserver --migrate leveldb --worldname "world"  <--- is this correct? i get this error: World 'world' not available. Available worlds:
15:35 crazyR efectivly tellingme theres no worlds there, when there is
15:36 PilzAdam crazyR, try --world with the whole path
15:38 crazyR PilzAdam: tryed that now i ge this error: ERROR[main]: Subgame [] could not be found.  not sure what that means but gues it has the same meaning lol
15:38 PilzAdam how old is the world?
15:38 celeron55 you have built a run-in-place version while you actually want a non-run-in-place version
15:38 celeron55 or the other way around
15:39 crazyR less than a week old the one i want to convert, and its a run in place
15:39 crazyR original paths were /.minetest & /minetest
15:40 celeron55 run it with --info and see what paths it outputs
15:40 celeron55 path_share and path_user
15:41 celeron55 if your world or game isn't under path_user in the correct place, it won't find it
15:41 Krock celeron55, is the "max_simultaneous_block_sends_server_total" supposed to be over 500?
15:42 celeron55 Krock: it's supposed to be infinite
15:42 Krock How that? Won't it create more lag?
15:43 celeron55 no because max_simultaneous_block_sends_per_client
15:43 celeron55 it just gets limited by max_simultaneous_block_sends_per_client * user count
15:43 celeron55 which is exactly what you want if you have the bandwidth
15:44 Krock I have no idea how fast the server -> web and web -> server connecion is
15:45 Krock And which things create lags and which not
15:45 celeron55 what kind of server it is?
15:45 celeron55 what connection
15:45 celeron55 basically if you host it at home, you use a low max_simultaneous_block_sends_server_total
15:46 celeron55 if you host it elsewhere, you use an infinite max_simultaneous_block_sends_server_total
15:46 Krock Oh.. I host it at home
15:46 celeron55 a regular VPS has like 1000-10000 times the upload bandwidth compared to an average home connection
15:47 celeron55 it's a completely different world
15:47 celeron55 well, 100-10000
15:47 Krock ok
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15:51 crazyR just a thought, when i do the migrate is the server(game) suppose to be running. becuase one error stand out a little: http://pastebin.com/ca5zQTNk
15:53 celeron55 umm... you have chosen a world that doesn't exist, or maybe the subgame doesn't exist in "[PATH]/minetest/games/"
15:53 celeron55 i don't know how accurate those errors are; that error is just stupid
15:53 Krock What was that command again? hmm
15:53 Krock ~give crazyR pastebin.com
15:53 ShadowBot crazyR: Don't use pastebin.com. Use a sane pastebin like bpaste.net, gist.github.com, sprunge.us, or ix.io.
15:53 celeron55 it's telling the subgame name is the empty string which is useless
15:54 celeron55 that should definitely be improved
15:55 Krock bin/minetestserver --migrate leveldb --world "../worlds/world" --info
15:55 Krock Would that one work?
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15:56 Robby ShadowNinja: https://dpaste.de is missing in that list
15:57 celeron55 Robby: a million pastebins are missing in the list
15:57 Robby yes
15:57 celeron55 i can list more but none are going to be added because it's useless
15:57 iqualfragile 16:57:19: ERROR[main]: Migration to leveldb is not supported wat?
15:57 Robby but I was still typing (slowly), I will proceed
15:57 ShadowNinja Robby: ^
15:57 Robby I especially like the https part
15:57 Robby :D
15:57 Robby the ones on the list don't do https
15:58 ShadowNinja iqualfragile: Did you compile specifically with LevelDB support enabled?
15:58 Robby well, pastebin does if you pay
15:58 iqualfragile aah, thats da reason
15:58 iqualfragile was leveldb or sqlite better?
15:58 iqualfragile sfan5: does minetestmapper support leveldb?
15:59 ShadowNinja ~aka-update pastebin.com echo Don't use pastebin.com. Use a sane pastebin like http://bpaste.net, https://dpaste.de, https://gist.github.com, http://sprunge.us, or http://ix.io.
15:59 ShadowBot O.K. O.K.
15:59 Robby :D
15:59 Krock hmm sfan5's fork supports levedb
15:59 celeron55 sfan5's does
15:59 ShadowNinja Robby: You forgot gist BTW.
15:59 Robby ah yes, gist did https :D
16:00 iqualfragile ok, thats what im using
16:00 celeron55 ShadowNinja: add fpaste.org too then
16:00 iqualfragile is leveldb better?
16:00 iqualfragile if yes: why?
16:00 Robby did=does
16:00 celeron55 i don't think there is actual proof for or against leveldb
16:01 celeron55 some people mention speed, but sqlite is as fast if you use sqlite_synchronous = 0
16:01 iqualfragile but that kills yar database
16:01 iqualfragile what was the reason for adding it?
16:01 celeron55 it probably puts it to the same level as leveldb
16:02 celeron55 in terms of reliability
16:02 BrandonReese sqlite_synchronous = 0 seems to have made a big difference for my server
16:02 ShadowNinja celeron55: Done.
16:02 Krock good or bad dirreences?
16:02 BrandonReese good
16:03 iqualfragile BrandonReese: yeah, obviously but you would not mount your partitions with nobarier
16:03 crazyR Krock: that command certainly did a lot more. just reading throught the mountainous output now
16:03 Krock crazyR, so it's converting now?
16:03 celeron55 if someone would care to measure it (i.e. kill a virtual machine while minetest is running in it or something like that), it would be very useful for deciding what should be the default
16:04 crazyR does look it is Krock. notice a few iregularities though. like "Successfully migrated 0 blocks" but not sure wether thats good or bad :/
16:04 harrison what if our whole universe is running in a virtual machine?
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16:05 iqualfragile or we could read what the devs recommend
16:05 iqualfragile https://sqlite.org/pragma.html#pragma_synchronous
16:05 Krock crazyR, it should take about 5-20 seconds for one migrating *tick*
16:06 crazyR i know, lets just start the server and see if it crashes or not :D
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16:07 celeron55 iqualfragile: leveldb probably doesn't even have the capability of doing the extra step in ensuring data gets written that sqlite does with synchronous=2
16:07 iqualfragile that would be easy to implement thought
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16:08 crazyR krock: this is the one that worries me "15:56:25: ERROR[main]: Map::listAllLoadableBlocks(): Result will be missing all blocks that are stored in flat files 15:56:25: INFO[main]: ServerMap: SQLite3 database structure was createdServerMap: SQLite3 database opened 15:56:25: ACTION[main]: Successfully migrated 0 blocks "
16:08 BrandonReese whats the worst case senario using  sqlite_synchronous = 0 in a crash? complete database corruption or loss of data?
16:08 iqualfragile BrandonReese: fulldeath
16:09 celeron55 backups guys, there are no excuses for not having them
16:09 Krock crazyR, I had that error too, ran the command again and it worked
16:09 BrandonReese iqualfragile that doesn't sound like any fun
16:09 BrandonReese I have backups
16:09 iqualfragile BrandonReese: that does in fact sound like fun
16:09 crazyR hehe il fire it away again then :D
16:09 iqualfragile if you have backups, then there is no reason to fear stuff
16:10 celeron55 also note that crash means crash of the operating system, not minetest
16:10 Krock Horray!
16:10 BrandonReese I meant crash of minetest
16:11 iqualfragile BrandonReese: read the stuff i linked
16:11 iqualfragile only data loss
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16:12 BrandonReese ok that doesn't sound too bad, I feel comfortable with it at 0
16:13 ShadowNinja Is LevelDB more compact?
16:13 Krock leveldb is harder to compress than sqlite, that's an interesting fact
16:14 ShadowNinja sfan5: Your LevelDB version of the cpp mapper tries every possible key from the top of a sector to the bottom to find chunks, right?  Isn't there a db.getKeys() function or similar?
16:15 ShadowNinja s/chunks/blocks/
16:16 iqualfragile Krock: which one is bigger when uncompressed?
16:16 Krock iqualfragile, in my case, it was sqlite
16:16 celeron55 one fact is that leveldb is way less interoperable than sqlite
16:16 celeron55 you can open the sqlite database with almost anything you can get your hands on
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16:16 celeron55 leveldb support is way rarer
16:19 iqualfragile who made leveldb, was it hmmmm?
16:19 ShadowNinja iqualfragile: No, Google.
16:20 Krock omg yes srsly http://code.google.com/p/leveldb/
16:20 ShadowNinja I don't remember who added support for it to Minetest.
16:20 hoodedice joined #minetest
16:20 hoodedice ~tell ShadowNinja Got it. Will put cloak on first, then join. Sorry.
16:20 ShadowBot hoodedice: O.K.
16:21 Krock hoodedice, c'mon you only need 3 posts today and you broke the 1000 posts limit
16:21 hoodedice No good topic to post on
16:21 hoodedice =/
16:21 Jordach hoodedice, cloaks do not apply to webchat users
16:21 hoodedice wut, Jordach?
16:21 hoodedice wutwtwut?
16:22 iqualfragile ShadowNinja: oh, i thought you were joking
16:22 hoodedice Also, just noticed Shadow is on, lol.
16:22 Jordach you'll join three times hoodedice (aiuhbi@gateway/web/freenode/ip.x.x.x.x) (aiuhbi@unaffiliated/hoodedice) (aiuhbi@gateway/web/freenode/ip.x.x.x.x) <- like that in sequence
16:23 hoodedice Anyway, just wanted to ask. What does onpon4 mean by 'feed' in this: https://forum.minetest.net/vie​wtopic.php?pid=135103#p135103
16:23 hoodedice Jordach, what if I register to NickServ and *then* join #minetest?
16:23 Jordach hoodedice, you'll still be webchat
16:24 Jordach cloak is applied after server connection and not channel joins
16:24 harrison i don't understand what a "cloak" is
16:24 Jordach ...get a real fucking client
16:24 hoodedice Jordach. Do you know how much hexchat sucks?
16:24 harrison i tried reading the freenode page on it but i don't get it
16:24 hoodedice And how much stable webchat is?
16:24 Jordach hoodedice, have you tried quassel :P
16:24 harrison why would someone want a cloak?
16:24 hoodedice !g quassel
16:24 MinetestBot hoodedice: http://quassel-irc.org/
16:24 hoodedice Because I am an assassin.
16:24 hoodedice *cough*
16:24 harrison quassel ftw
16:25 ShadowNinja hoodedice: I almost commented on that.  He means the RSS feeds.
16:25 txt-file joined #minetest
16:25 Jordach we have RSS
16:25 hoodedice Why would someone want RSS?
16:25 ShadowNinja hoodedice: Ask onpon4.  :-)
16:25 hoodedice XD
16:26 ShadowNinja hoodedice: Oh, and last time I used webchat I found it all but unreadable.
16:26 hoodedice On Windows?
16:27 ShadowNinja hoodedice: I was on a Lubuntu desktop at the time.
16:28 hoodedice hmm. Last time I used an IRC client with windows, it was hexchat, and it was friggin buggy.
16:28 hoodedice XChat on Xubuntu is awesome, though
16:29 ShadowNinja Yes, HC is buggy on windows.  Quassel is better.
16:29 Jordach hoodedice, HexChat stems from XChat
16:29 ShadowNinja Last time I used Quassel on windows it was very slow though.  Maybe it was just the computer though.
16:29 Jordach horseshit
16:29 hoodedice brb, switching to a 'real' client
16:30 iqualfragile ShadowNinja: ON WINDOWS!!?!!!???
16:30 ShadowNinja iqualfragile: Yep.
16:30 spillz joined #minetest
16:31 iqualfragile leme help ya
16:31 iqualfragile http://goodbye-microsoft.com/
16:31 iqualfragile here, that should fix it
16:32 ShadowNinja iqualfragile: Grandparent's laptop.
16:32 Krock lulz
16:32 iqualfragile http://goodbye-microsoft.com/ <-- that should fix it
16:32 ShadowNinja (And I prefer Arch)
16:33 spillz Re PRAGMA synchronous = FULL, link and run http://leveldb.googlecode.com​/svn/trunk/doc/benchmark.html note section 2C
16:33 Krock http://www.website-unavailable.​com/main?url=goodbye-linux.com
16:33 Krock fuu
16:41 Krock http://needsmorejpeg.com/i/i92.jpeg
16:42 hoodedice_ joined #minetest
16:42 VanessaE good morn....er...afternoon all
16:43 hoodedice_ Hello VanessaE
16:43 hoodedice_ Nice to see you at the right time of day XD
16:43 Krock hi VanessaE
16:44 Enke joined #minetest
16:44 Krock This world needs more JPEG.
16:46 iqualfragile Krock: the world needs more apng
16:46 iqualfragile and less gif
16:47 Krock c'mon, theres already that awesome uploading tool to make JPEG files :)
16:48 celeron55 iqualfragile: the world needs an actual and universally agreed png animation standard
16:48 iqualfragile celeron55: there are just two
16:48 iqualfragile not _thaaat_ much
16:48 iqualfragile and one is more or less ignored
16:49 celeron55 or, well, the other one is called mng but anyway; it's basically an another implementation of apng
16:49 celeron55 an earlier one that people didn't take into use because they're assholes
16:49 hoodedice_ Why do we even png?
16:49 hoodedice_ why do we not gif?
16:49 * hoodedice_ runs away
16:50 * Krock holds hoodedice_ on the collar
16:50 hoodedice_ Did you mean: by the collar?
16:50 SylvieLorxu joined #minetest
16:51 Krock yes, I'm best in english grammar *cough*
16:54 Krock The newest forum user has a very creative name...
17:04 sfan5 meow
17:04 sfan5 I'm back
17:04 sfan5 ShadowNinja: no
17:05 sfan5 ShadowNinja: my fork caches all keys the db has in an std::vector and looks into the vector for the key before trying to load it
17:07 ShadowNinja sfan5: O.K. good.  But does it still try all keys when looking through the vector?
17:07 sfan5 sure
17:07 sfan5 I do not know whether leveldb::Comparator's are useful for this
17:07 sfan5 and I don't even understand them :s
17:08 ShadowNinja sfan5: As in "check if 1 is in the vector, then check if 2 is in the vector, etc" rather than "look for the highest position in the vector at these x and z coordinates".
17:09 sfan5 yes
17:09 sfan5 my way of caching is inefficient
17:09 sfan5 feel free to pull request
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17:17 ShadowNinja sfan5: You should only call prepare once...
17:18 sfan5 ShadowNinja: ik
17:31 rubenwardy Hi all!
17:32 Krock hi alone!
17:32 Krock err it must be: <all> Hi alone
17:38 ShadowNinja sfan5: http://ix.io/bje/diff
17:38 ShadowNinja Better add sqlite3_destroy...
17:39 ShadowNinja (Which wasn't there before...)
17:39 ShadowNinja finalize that is.
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17:57 ShadowNinja sfan5: // we cannot use ... char>> here because mingw-gcc is f**king retarded (caring about whitespace and shit) -- Actually that's a problem with the standard, MinGW (and GCC) are just following it correctly.  C++11 fixes that.
17:58 Jordach wtf
17:58 Jordach WTF
17:58 Jordach you bitch at ME FOR USING RETARDED
17:58 meldrian joined #minetest
17:58 Jordach and then you go and fucking do it
17:59 ShadowNinja Hmmm, C++11's Rvalues would help reduce copies and therefore memory usage.
17:59 ShadowNinja sfan5: Can I switch it to C++11?  :-)
18:00 ShadowNinja You can pass references around though.
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18:11 Krock Pull request: add scrollable textareas in formspecs
18:12 q66 joined #minetest
18:13 ShadowNinja Krock: Already done and accepted long ago.
18:13 Krock ShadowNinja, when exactly?
18:14 Krock or is the lua api incomplete, where the textareas get descriped?
18:15 ShadowNinja Krock: Look for the textarea element
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18:16 Krock textarea[<X>,<Y>;<W>,<H>;<​name>;<label>;<default>]? Well, I get there no scroll bars
18:17 VanessaE I thought that new formspec table format was also implemented by now?
18:17 crazyR Krock i got a pretty big problem
18:17 Krock crazyR, me too
18:17 VanessaE why not use that method?  it's easier to read anyway.
18:18 crazyR finally got the convert done, but i cant find anything that was built :/
18:18 Krock VanessaE, what do you mean by "new formspec table"?
18:18 Krock crazyR, check out the new folder in your world
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18:31 VanessaE Krock: there was a proposal/pull request which I could swear had been committed upstream, that allows you to specify a formspec in the form of a Lua table rather than the compact strings method you're using
18:31 VanessaE those tables are far easier to compose and read, but I have not used them myself and I am not sure if that method ever went live
18:32 Krock Okay, thanks. But for some tasks it might be useful
18:33 VanessaE commit 8966c16ad298f94be1f4542afa6b081a1d286eda
18:33 VanessaE Author: Kahrl <kahrl@gmx.net>
18:33 VanessaE Date:   Fri Aug 23 12:24:11 2013 +0200
18:33 VanessaE Add formspec table
18:33 VanessaE was kicked by ShadowBot: Paste flood detected. Use a pastebin like pastebin.ubuntu.com or gist.github.com.
18:33 VanessaE joined #minetest
18:33 VanessaE note to self....voice first before doing that.
18:33 crazyR thinks im going back to sqlite. its proven lol
18:35 kahrl VanessaE: I guess that's an unfortunate ambiguity
18:36 kahrl that commit didn't add a lua table syntax for formspecs but a table-type formspec widget
18:37 VanessaE aw damn
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18:38 ShadowNinja Hmmm.
18:38 VanessaE that explains why it ain't documented in the API :P
18:39 ShadowNinja I have so many blocks in my DB that select count(*) from blocks; hasn't finished yet...
18:39 kahrl does sqlite really enumerate rows for that?
18:40 ShadowNinja select rowid from blocks order by rowid desc limit 1; --> 37527337
18:41 ShadowNinja At that rate the mapper will take years...
18:41 ShadowNinja VanessaE: How many blocks do you have?
18:42 VanessaE which map?
18:42 ShadowNinja VanessaE: How about creative.
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18:43 VanessaE lemme check
18:43 ShadowNinja The regular mapper has the same speed issue.  And 37,000,000 seems excessive...
18:44 ShadowNinja VanessaE: Oh, run it on a backup.
18:44 VanessaE sqlite> select rowid from blocks order by rowid desc limit 1;
18:44 VanessaE 39663629
18:44 VanessaE (that was on a backup, yes)
18:45 ShadowNinja VanessaE: And the mapper doesn't take a year to start?
18:45 * Jordach just ordered his brother's birthday pressies via ebuyer, laptop ram and a 30pc screwdriver set
18:45 VanessaE the C++ mapper takes around 20 minutes to complete its run on that map I think
18:45 VanessaE not very long
18:46 VanessaE the python mapper took eons.
18:46 ShadowNinja Loading the blockpos list should only take a few seconds though.
18:46 VanessaE of course, I'm still on your fork
18:46 VanessaE not sfan5's
18:49 ShadowNinja Hmmm, jumped from about 20 * 10,000 entries per second to about 10,000 per second after the first 7,000,000 entries or so.
18:49 VanessaE as for that sqlite command itself, it took only a fraction of a second to return an answer.
18:50 ShadowNinja VanessaE: The mapper is running "SELECT pos FROM blocks".  (Don't try that... :-) )
18:50 VanessaE I'll take your word for it :P
18:51 ShadowNinja It doesn't just slow down either, it's like it hits a wall.
18:51 VanessaE memory/swapping?
18:55 ShadowNinja Hmmm, it does slow down.  Hits 4,000,000 in a milisecond.
18:56 ShadowNinja It's using only 3% of my memory after about 10s.  And it's substantially slowed down by then (10,000/sec or so)
18:57 ShadowNinja Hmmm, might be std::set realocating and having to copy everything.
18:58 celeron55 std::set is a linked structure which doesn't reallocate, right?
18:59 celeron55 but when it grows bigger, the lookup time into it grows bigger
18:59 celeron55 it's basically a binary tree with no values attached to keys
19:02 celeron55 but that really does sound like there's something that accumulates things and does some n^2 operation or something
19:02 crazyR quick question. would you recomend strict client setting on or off?
19:03 BrandonReese I have it off
19:03 celeron55 default is off so it is recommended unless you have a specific reason to do otherwise
19:03 crazyR hmm, mine was on by default
19:03 Jordach it's the kill buildcraft switch
19:03 crazyR lol
19:04 crazyR il turn it off
19:04 ShadowNinja celeron55: The docs I read didn't specify if it was linked or array-style.  I'll see if I can do this better with a vector.
19:05 Jordach ShadowNinja, scalar values or vector?
19:05 celeron55 ShadowNinja: do it first with nothing
19:05 celeron55 ShadowNinja: then you see if that part can use any optimization in the first place
19:05 ShadowNinja celeron55: Good idea, thanks.
19:06 celeron55 is the code up somewhere?
19:07 ShadowNinja celeron55: I'm working on sfan5's fork of the mapper.  I've made a few changes locally though.  One minute...
19:08 ShadowNinja celeron55: http://ix.io/bjj/diff and http://ix.io/bjk/diff
19:08 ShadowNinja And removing s.insert didn't help/
19:08 ShadowNinja s/\//./
19:09 ShadowNinja It seems that SQLite3 is slowing down.  But why?
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19:12 ShadowNinja It gets to about 36/37 million before getting too slow.  So maybe realated to reaching the end of the db.
19:14 ShadowNinja It geeps going after the max rowid. O_o
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19:16 celeron55 there are negative rowids too
19:17 celeron55 if that's what could make the error
19:19 ShadowNinja celeron55: SQLite3 starts at 1 and goes up by default, although you can manually change it.
19:19 ShadowNinja Hmmm.
19:20 ShadowNinja I think rowid is just annother name for pos.  :-|
19:20 celeron55 yyes
19:20 celeron55 yes*
19:20 celeron55 sqlite aliases the integer primary key to rowid
19:20 ShadowNinja Hmmm, so only ~half way through than.
19:21 Sokomine the table-type for formspecs is very useful on its own
19:21 ShadowNinja Maybe pos should be UNIQUE but not a primary key.  A real rowid would be usefull.
19:22 ShadowNinja But why is SQLite3 sowing down half way through?
19:22 ShadowNinja +l
19:22 ShadowNinja celeron55: Any ideas?  Or do you know of something I can check to debug it?
19:23 Sokomine regarding the database...it would be great to have the date of the last change of an entry available. would make backups and perhaps also overview map creation faster
19:24 Sokomine ShadowNinja: guess that requires knowledge of the internals of sqlite3
19:30 celeron55 ShadowNinja: what about EXPLAIN QUERY PLAN? http://www.sqlite.org/lang_explain.html
19:30 celeron55 it probably doesn't tell anything special about it but it's good idea to make sure
19:31 celeron55 also, what if you try reading it in parts?
19:31 celeron55 like, a range of one million rowids at a time
19:32 ShadowNinja celeron55: 0|0|0|SCAN TABLE blocks USING COVERING INDEX sqlite_autoindex_blocks_1
19:33 celeron55 well, that's the obvious choice
19:33 celeron55 (i.e. nothing special there, move on)
19:33 ShadowNinja celeron55: Well, rowid is sparse.
19:34 celeron55 but is it too sparse for that? maybe not
19:35 celeron55 can you run something like SELECT pos FROM blocks WHERE pos >= 0 AND pos < 1000000 and get the result in reasonable speed?
19:35 hoodedice_ Just use MS Access database
19:35 celeron55 or however large the chunks would need to be to be reasonably few
19:35 * hoodedice_ hides
19:35 e1z0 joined #minetest
19:35 ShadowNinja Hmmm.  Lemme check how MT does it.
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19:37 celeron55 it simply runs "SELECT `pos` FROM `blocks`"
19:38 celeron55 but uses it only for clearobjects
19:38 ShadowNinja celeron55: It's also used for migration.
19:39 ShadowNinja It seems like that's slow too.
19:39 ShadowNinja It took a few seconds on a significantly smaller map.
19:39 ShadowNinja (128M vs 2.8G)
19:40 celeron55 well migration obviously is because it does a lot more than just list the stuff
19:40 hoodedice_ ~up 98.166.161.125
19:41 ShadowBot hoodedice_: 98.166.161.125 port 30000 is down
19:41 hoodedice_ <3 ShadowBot
19:41 ShadowBot 04♥ hoodedice_.
19:41 ShadowNinja celeron55: The part before it even starts migrating takes a few seconds on that DB I mean.
19:41 Jordach well done hoodedice :P
19:41 crazyR anyone got any images for the technics dusts? etc all the missing ones
19:42 ShadowNinja I'm going to compart LevelDB now.
19:42 celeron55 oh by the way, Sokomine's suggestion isn't half bad
19:42 celeron55 ShadowNinja: did you try multiple times? chances are if not, it wasn't in your OS's disk cache and was slow because of that
19:46 ShadowNinja celeron55: I did try multiple times.  It did go farther later though, so it might be that.
19:54 ShadowNinja Takes about six seconds to render one mapblock with either backend, and that doesn't include the pos loading time.  Seems rather slow.
19:54 PenguinDad maybe do a sqlite "VACUUM" statement before running the mapper?
19:56 jalcine Was explaining minetest to my brother who introduced me to minecraft and he wishes he could play
19:56 ShadowNinja PenguinDad: That reconstructs the database, it should be very slow.
19:56 anunakki joined #minetest
19:57 ShadowNinja Hmmm, I broke something apparently.
19:58 Sokomine jalcine: both games have their pros and cons. if your brother wants to play minetest, there's nothing that ought to hinder him :-)
19:58 crazyR yeah but mc has morecons lol
19:59 Krock help my mtturns grey
19:59 hoodedice_ Krock, press Escape, or restart the game
19:59 Krock hoodedice_, I talked about 10 mins, moved a little around and it just gets grey...memory leaks!
20:00 jalcine there's only one computer here
20:00 jalcine and it's my laptop, lol
20:00 jalcine I'm planning to get one for everyone here
20:00 crazyR quick q... does anyone know what the "mainlist = NULL" is all about
20:00 roboman2444 joined #minetest
20:00 Sokomine jalcine: aah. ok. that makes things more difficult :-) at least minetest runs on far older and cheaper hardware than mc does
20:00 iqualfragile_ joined #minetest
20:01 Krock crazyR, thats (what I think) your hud doesn't get drawn well. just rejoin
20:01 jalcine indeed! I wonder if a decent server could run on a RPi, I'd just set my current test one there
20:02 hoodedice_ Can someone !kick hoodedice ?
20:02 hoodedice_ left #minetest
20:02 hoodedice joined #minetest
20:02 Krock !kick hoodedice
20:02 Sokomine jalcine: there are occasionally test servers on the public list that run on raspberry pis. they're usually not set up as full servers and don't last long, but under some circumstances, it might work well enough
20:03 hoodedice *cough* Not now.
20:03 Krock xD
20:03 hoodedice Wow. Bold
20:04 Sokomine (for me: full server = one you can build on and expect to last a long time; not just survival)
20:04 Jordach hoodedice, better?
20:05 * jalcine goes to download the source of minetest
20:05 jalcine If there's one thing I know, it's C++ lol
20:05 Jordach btw, guys, i'm going to be toying with Source Filmmaker, to understand animations better :P
20:06 ShadowNinja Much better: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7170361/ :-)
20:06 ShadowNinja sfan5: ^ > 20x faster with a very small test case.
20:07 domtron does get_player_by_name work for players who have been on but are currently absent?
20:08 Krock domtron, that only works with online players
20:08 Krock = in the status message
20:09 domtron thanks
20:09 ShadowNinja sqlite3 is still faster than LevelDB though.
20:09 sfan5 ShadowNinja: I am aware of that; yes you can switch to C++11; nice improvements!
20:09 jalcine c++11 is dope!
20:10 jalcine is it possible to swap out dbdrivers in minetest?
20:10 Jordach https://cdn.mediacru.sh/_--DZWz3d-mk.png
20:10 sfan5 jalcine: yes
20:10 jalcine \o/ curious; that's all
20:10 sfan5 Jordach: >still using windows >not linux
20:10 Jordach sfan5, i gave up
20:10 Jordach gimme a few years, she'll be running Linux
20:11 * sfan5 throws a whole stash of linux CDs at Jordach
20:11 Jordach y u no 128bit
20:11 jalcine lol 128bit
20:11 jalcine soon
20:12 ShadowNinja VanessaE: How big are your maps (the 2D image kind)?
20:12 * sfan5 throws the costs of manufactoring ICs at Jordach
20:12 ShadowNinja sfan5: What about switching to SConstruct?  :-)
20:13 sfan5 what's that?
20:13 ShadowNinja sfan5: A make alternative.  It uses Python syntax.
20:13 sfan5 eh..
20:13 sfan5 no!
20:13 sfan5 it works fine like this
20:13 sfan5 why switch?
20:14 ShadowNinja sfan5: Like this: https://github.com/ShadowNinja/​NBT-CPP/blob/master/SConstruct
20:14 ShadowNinja sfan5: Because CMake syntax is ugly.
20:14 sfan5 Don't fix stuff that works
20:15 ShadowNinja I'll try it later.  ;-)
20:15 sfan5 Don't expect me to merge that
20:15 sfan5 :)
20:16 celeron55 how about a C++ build system
20:16 ShadowNinja Anyway, LevelDB is actually close to SQLite3 now.  I'll finish and push it.  And I'd like to get this under the minetest organization.  celeron55: ^
20:16 sfan5 ^
20:16 celeron55 first run "$CXX make.cpp"
20:16 ShadowNinja celeron55: Um, because you need to build the build system then.
20:16 celeron55 -o make
20:16 celeron55 then ./make
20:17 celeron55 but the build system can be just portable regular stuff without (many) libraries
20:17 ShadowNinja Well, if the build system doesn't need any special flags that would work.
20:17 celeron55 has anyone ever made anything like that?
20:17 ShadowNinja But the C++ file is going to be mostly system() calls.
20:18 ShadowNinja And some things will be hard to do without special libs.
20:18 celeron55 maybe the C++ file could compile a more full build system first :-)
20:18 celeron55 or dynamically link to anything it finds on the system
20:18 sfan5 #include <stdio.h> int main(void) { system("make"); // Run actual build system return 0; }
20:18 PenguinDad lol
20:18 celeron55 (then it would need -ldl though)
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20:19 ShadowNinja sfan5: Error: expecting '}' near <EOF>
20:19 sfan5 ShadowNinja: you're a programmer, you should know where to put newlines
20:21 crazyR is there a reason why the print function in luacontrollers is disabled in multiplayer, is it a security thing?
20:21 Jordach print nil
20:21 Jordach crash the minetest lua stack
20:22 celeron55 it could just wrap the print function with a safe wrapper
20:22 celeron55 that never crashes
20:22 Jordach if nil then print ''
20:22 celeron55 ...but it's probably a good idea to disallow any system i/o in it
20:22 Jordach https://forum.minetest.net/vie​wtopic.php?pid=135130#p135130
20:23 celeron55 it's so prone to completely breaking the sandbox
20:23 PenguinDad if nil then print("nil") -- :P
20:23 crazyR i was thinking as an alternative, to create some sort of node that can send a pre-defined pm to the owner. wuld be similar i think ?
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20:44 ShadowNinja Print worked last I checked, and the pcall means that code in LuaCs can't crash.
20:44 Gambit joined #minetest
20:45 crazyR yeah just been looking at the file, seems a safe_print was created
20:47 rubenwardy Banished (the game) is awesome.
20:49 ShadowNinja celeron55: So, thoughts about moving minetest-mapper-cpp to the minetest organization?  (It would be renamed to mapper-cpp or similar too)
20:53 Eater4 joined #minetest
20:54 celeron55 ShadowNinja: dunno, maybe; but no programming language in it's name
20:54 celeron55 something like fastmapper or similar if that's the point
20:55 ShadowNinja celeron55: Alright. sfan5's one is the most advanced one ATM I believe.  Mind creating/forking the repo?
21:00 Eater4 4:00 PM <Nate> Does anyone know how to use the advanced spawning mod?
21:13 JamesTait joined #minetest
21:13 Eater4 Hello?
21:14 crazyR hi
21:15 ShadowNinja celeron55: Well?  Can you fork or create it as minetest/mapper or the like? (And add it to "Team-Minetest")
21:18 celeron55 hmm, how to fork under a different name
21:18 Jordach fork it then rename repi
21:18 Jordach repo*
21:19 celeron55 do anyone even agree with this?
21:19 Jordach it's better than the python turd we currently have
21:19 crazyR lol, gotta admin, ive been using sfans fork and it is good
21:19 ShadowNinja celeron55: Well, I do.  And I believe sfan5 agreed to it a while ago.
21:19 PenguinDad We should make it official imho
21:20 crazyR *admot
21:20 crazyR *admit
21:20 celeron55 okay, then it's going under the name "mtmapper" (so that the name is somewhat unique (if you want to pull it to a directory full of other projects) but clearly shows that it is "the" mapper)
21:21 celeron55 or does someone have a better name?
21:21 * ShadowNinja puts it in /home/minetest/mapper/
21:21 celeron55 i'll have it under a flat directory that contains every project i have ever touched, so "mapper" would be just stupidly generic
21:22 celeron55 altough, of course the local directory can be other than the repo name...
21:22 celeron55 but then again, the resulting binary should have a unique name
21:22 celeron55 "mapper" isn't going to cut it
21:22 celeron55 "mtmapper" on the other hand is fine
21:23 _BrandonReese joined #minetest
21:23 celeron55 no comments? well crap
21:24 celeron55 i assume it's fine then
21:24 Jordach celeron55, mtmapper is fine
21:24 domtron_ joined #minetest
21:24 celeron55 actually the binary seems to be minetestmapper
21:25 celeron55 then that will be the repo too
21:27 ShadowNinja I'll push these patches to in in a minute: http://ix.io/bjp
21:27 ShadowNinja Makes SQLite3 slightly faster and significantly improves LevelDB speed.
21:28 celeron55 https://github.com/minetest/minetestmapper
21:28 celeron55 this now exists
21:28 ShadowNinja :-)
21:28 ShadowNinja celeron55: Team "Team-Minetest" updated?
21:29 celeron55 i added it as a contributor
21:31 ShadowNinja So, xdd is used to embed the colors into the binary and then it reads the colors.txt file for aditional definitions?  Why not just read the file?
21:37 Sokomine making the minetestmapper more "official", perhaps even including it somewhere? sounds like a good idea
21:42 Eater4 Shadowninja idk what is worng with area mod but it is not working....even with the floder change
21:43 proller joined #minetest
21:55 ShadowNinja Eater4: Pastebin the error.
22:00 PilzAdam "Hey there, we're just writing to let you know that you've been automatically subscribed to a repository on GitHub." yea, fuck you too
22:01 phantombeta joined #minetest
22:02 Jordach daww
22:03 Jordach little pilzadam having email issues
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22:18 phantombeta| joined #minetest
22:21 spillz Have any of you lazy b*****s tried my numpy version of mapper?
22:25 domtron_ joined #minetest
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22:35 john_minetest joined #minetest
22:35 john_minetest Hey
22:35 phantombeta Hi john_minetest
22:37 domtron__ joined #minetest
22:43 Eater4 Ok...
22:49 spillz joined #minetest
22:49 LazyJ joined #minetest
22:51 john_minetest ok...
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