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IRC log for #minetest, 2014-02-17

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00:20 Jace2 this is Jace
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01:18 john_minetest Now Jace left.
01:18 john_minetest And it is late.
01:19 john_minetest I should leave.
01:19 john_minetest Bye.
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03:39 hoodedice sfan5!
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04:53 hoodedice Is there a way to increase biome limits?
04:53 hoodedice ie, make em bigger?
05:02 hoodedice !seen paramat
05:02 MinetestBot hoodedice: paramat was last seen at 2014-02-16 05:03:12 UTC on #minetest
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05:19 hmmmm :(
05:19 hmmmm foo
05:19 hmmmm I can't seem to get the temperature-decay-with-elevation biome thing working right
05:21 hmmmm what if instead, temperature/humidity selects a biome group which is just the same biome except split up into height segments
05:22 hmmmm so you don't define a biome, you define a biome set
05:22 hmmmm each biome set consists of one or more biomes which have common temperature and humidity points, but have different characteristics based on elevation
05:22 hmmmm maybe this is the way forward
05:24 hmmmm but see all i can do here is talk about the elevation at a point
05:25 hmmmm not the terrain characteristics of the surrounding area
05:26 hmmmm so that means the default biome group with a heat point and humidity point both at, say, 50 is like {dirt ocean, shore, plains, hills, extreme hills}
05:26 hmmmm but "plains" isn't some sort of biome that occurs at a specific height
05:26 hmmmm "plains" is used to describe what the surrounding area is like, e.g. mostly flat and has a low variance
05:28 hmmmm minecraft makes this work by giving each biome an average height, the biome for a specific point is picked based off of temperature and humidity and nothing else, then the average height of that biome is used to influence the terrain
05:28 hoodedice ...
05:28 hmmmm that was my original original approach except it didn't work because of all the vertical cliffs since the noise would be discontinuous
05:28 hoodedice I'm here for paramat too. =|
05:28 hmmmm minecraft skirts around this issue by interpolating the terrain
05:29 hmmmm see that's the thing
05:29 hmmmm minecraft is able to do all this cool stuff because they tailor it to one specific implementation of a thing
05:29 hmmmm they don't make a generic, generalized version of whatever it is
05:29 hmmmm but we have to because minetest is modular, expandable, and reusable
05:30 hoodedice And depends largely on the modding community
05:31 hoodedice Which can be largely summed up in one post: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=8171
05:31 hmmmm minecraft is never going to be able to have the flexibility of minetest.  never.  unless they scrap the entire codebase and then start over from new, at which point they'd be several years behind us
05:31 hmmmm so maybe their biome system works out for them
05:31 hmmmm that's cool, but they're also stuck to one specific map generation paradigm
05:32 hoodedice How about giving a nice form to fill up at gen time to the user
05:32 hoodedice Asking them what percentage of each type of biome they would like?
05:33 hmmmm uh.. sure.
05:33 hoodedice And then only bothering about improving the code of those indiv biomes and making the transitions smoother?
05:33 hoodedice I smell sarcasm
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05:34 hmmmm so I guess this goes back to the ol' terrain variance variable
05:34 hmmmm sigh
05:35 hmmmm except i never really figured out how to make that work aside from using the persistence noise used to modulate the base terrain
05:35 hoodedice inb4 I decide to change my major
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05:35 hmmmm so if I use the persistence values and then add on the other types of turbulence noise, like mountains or ridges, based on some sort of ratio
05:36 hmmmm maybe like base noise accounts for 2/5ths, mountain terrain accounts for another 2/5ths, and then ridge terrain accounts for 1/5th of the value
05:36 hmmmm those sound like good weights
05:36 hoodedice Ah paramat
05:36 paramat o/
05:37 hoodedice Please check the logs, hmmm has a lot to say to you
05:37 hoodedice I however, have only two things
05:37 hmmmm i'm mostly just talking to myself
05:37 hoodedice Talking to yourself on an IRC...
05:37 hoodedice I should start doing that
05:37 hmmmm it helps
05:37 paramat hmmmm, can you explain the trouble you're having with temp decay with  height? works well in paragen
05:37 hmmmm I can't get the desired effects
05:37 hoodedice But then again, what am I doing at 12:30 am?
05:38 hmmmm in particular i'm not able to get narrow bands of beach
05:38 paramat hoodie, hmmm doesnt need my help, he's MT's mapgen dev ;)
05:38 hmmmm and of course you can't differentiate between oceans and anything else like that
05:38 hoodedice okay, paramat, A. I used archipelago with your recommended .conf settings but I do get those strips of incorrectly generated dirt
05:39 hoodedice Which is kind of a bummer
05:39 hoodedice (I didn't say that he needed your help, I said 'wants to talk to you'. But then again, nvm)
05:40 paramat i define beach and dunes biomes only on proximity to sea level
05:40 hmmmm so you have special cases for those ibomes?
05:40 hmmmm see that's what I'm avoiding
05:40 paramat yeah
05:40 hmmmm that's so easy to do but you need to hardcode things in
05:41 hoodedice B. I used paragen8, and it is indeed much improved. However, the biomes are way too small to be able to do anything constructive. Is there a way to stretch the biomes so that they occupy larger space? Sorry to disturb your discussion and thanks.
05:41 paramat hoodie, yeah i answered in the forum just now
05:42 hmmmm here's what i did so far http://pastebin.com/4TC8ZSN1
05:42 hoodedice Thanks a lot paramat.
05:42 hmmmm it's not a sophisticated height decay at all
05:42 paramat archipelago will create dirt ridges unless you use 0.4.9dev with the 'nomudflow' flag
05:42 hmmmm paramat, why don't you set the nomudflow flag from within your mod?
05:43 paramat i will but im still using 0.4.8 stable
05:44 hoodedice ok. I think I left that out. =/. Thanks a lot
05:44 hoodedice Later.
05:45 hmmmm so what do you think about my terrain variance idea
05:45 hmmmm i was going to do that originally a long long time ago but i ended up not doing it
05:46 hmmmm that would help determine things like what's a mountain, what are planes, so on, but that won't determine if something is an ocean or not
05:47 paramat i need to reread and ponder what you've written :) ...
05:48 hmmmm there's a balance i need to achieve between complexity and smart design
05:50 hmmmm in short i'd like to find a way that i can do minecraft's f(temperature, humidity) -> (average terrain height range, biome type) kind of mapping
05:50 hmmmm but i already mentioned the problem *for us* with having the biome type influence the terrain itself
05:52 hmmmm agh no wonder why I'm taking so long to fix the biomes, because I never really solved the problem
05:57 paramat BTW id like to see dynamic weather stuff  cleared out of MT if its not going to be developed with high quality, my temp/humidity readouts in 0.4.8 are 0 or -32000
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06:21 hmmmm paramat, the 0 is a bug, -32768 is a placeholder value that means weather inactive
06:21 hmmmm enabling weather means enabling finite liquids and all other proller-related things
06:22 paramat thanks, i dont like finite water either (sorry proller)
06:22 hmmmm i wanted to contain proller crap so I made it disable-able
06:22 hmmmm by default it would be on all the time and write useless data to the maps on generation
06:23 hmmmm the mapblocks* i mean
06:24 paramat reread your idea, interesting ... not sure if you are suggesting temp/hum defines the terrain height or not
06:24 paramat that seems backwards to me
06:24 hmmmm that's what minecraft does and it solves all the problems that I'm currently having
06:24 hmmmm but it'd create a new problem
06:25 paramat best i think to design a stone landscape first and let height influence biomes
06:25 hmmmm well yeah that's how it works right now
06:26 paramat in paragen i get rings of biomes as you go up large mountains
06:26 hmmmm but i want to be able to differentiate between ocean, planes, hills, etc.
06:26 paramat and its all so simple ... im lucky to be limited by lua's simplicity and slowness :D
06:26 hmmmm it's too simple
06:27 hmmmm i'm gonna have to do the terrain variance thing for sure
06:27 us_0gb That's sad about the weather. I like the idea of weather, but I don't like finite liquids.
06:28 hmmmm as for the beaches/oceans thing you can't really do that based on terrain variance
06:28 hmmmm that needs to be directly determined by the height at that point
06:29 hmmmm which is basically what exists right now with the biomes with the height_min/height_max parameters
06:29 hmmmm having specific height ranges for biomes removes the possibility of determining biome by lookup table
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07:31 paramat oddly enough im now questioning having temp / humidity decay with height, as this forces all high mountains and floatlands within the atmosphere to be tundra, it would actually be good to have high altitude deserts and jungles, and low altitude tundra ...
07:35 paramat having biomes defined only by 3D noise makes them a small segment of a theoretically infinite pattern, which is closer to celeron55's universality
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10:52 PilzAdam Hello everyone!
10:53 LazyJ Howdy, PilzAdam ;)
10:53 PilzAdam who wants to join my anti-spoiler campaign? https://forum.minetest.net/profile.php?id=2443
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10:56 LazyJ Hmmm... The "spoiler" is a tool that has been abused but for those that use it responsibly it functions as it should. I'm undecided on the matter atm.
10:57 PilzAdam I havent seen a single spoiler tag that is used for actual spoilers
10:58 PilzAdam its mostly used for formatting, and that is super annyoing since viewers have to click to read
10:58 LazyJ Can the term be changed to something more suitable to it's more responsible use?
10:58 PilzAdam [annoy] would be good ;-)
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10:59 PilzAdam Jordach, logs ^
10:59 LazyJ Instead of "spoiler" is there a way to have a... bookmark? or a type of link that takes the reader to another part of the post but only within that post?
11:00 LazyJ So the post's author could create a list of bookmarks at the top of the post, like an index I've seen on wiki's?
11:00 PilzAdam that could be handy for big posts for e.g. mods
11:02 LazyJ The first post on LinuxGaming's thread is quite long. It would be useful to have a section index for posts like that. VanessaE's server's first posts are similar in need.
11:02 LazyJ Need or want? as my dad would ask.
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11:31 PilzAdam bbl
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12:24 john_minetest Hey
12:26 daspork yo
12:27 Jordach yoyoyo wassup?
12:29 john_minetest some servers are up!
12:29 Jordach pfft
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12:35 Jordach john_minetest, i've been working on a new human animatic model
12:35 john_minetest Any my epic commandline 2d sandbox sidescroller game is evolving.
12:35 Jordach i've actually streamlined my stuff :>
12:36 Jordach i even improved my sharp bends and made them look less shit, solved the broken UV at 90*, compressed the mouth to 2x1 pixel area
12:37 Jordach it took 6 hours compared to 12 :P
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12:49 Jordach john_minetest, sfan5: https://forum.minetest.net/vie​wtopic.php?pid=130157#p130157
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13:00 john_minetest http://i.imgur.com/2hEAOcR.png
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13:29 Jordach pfft
13:31 reactor joined #minetest
13:33 john_minetest pffft
13:33 Jordach pfffft
13:33 reactor ftp
13:33 Jordach pah
13:33 Jordach haha
13:33 john_minetest pah
13:33 reactor фщщщщ
13:34 john_minetest PAH!   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrAYz6rECHo
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13:53 reactor iHAЬ
13:53 reactor Rather, ЬAHi
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14:38 john_minetest VanessaE: Are you here?
14:39 john_minetest I can't log into your mostly-vanilla server anymore. It says that somebody else is already using that name.
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15:06 Jordach john_minetest, want me to have a look?
15:06 Jordach i can reset the pass on it
15:06 * Jordach has full admin access
15:17 sfan5 !tell PilzAdam wtf did you do with your forum signature?
15:17 MinetestBot sfan5: I'll pass that on when PilzAdam is around
15:21 Jordach H
15:21 Jordach AH
15:21 Jordach he wants spoilers disabled
15:21 sfan5 or he wants to get banned
15:22 sfan5 also: http://mg.viewskew.com/mgoblin_med​ia/media_entries/577/untitled.png
15:22 sfan5 that looks nice
15:22 Jordach sfan5, ~7 hours compared to my G6 model (instead of 12 hours to do)
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15:23 sfan5 uhh
15:23 sfan5 >it's still in development, (the 4K standard)
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15:23 sfan5 wut, 4K is not a standard it's a resolution (actually it is like a standard but finished)
15:23 Jordach sfan5, i constructed the model in record time
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15:24 Jordach PilzAdam, fix yer fuckin sig
15:24 sfan5 >JPEG likes to artifract, (and that's going to be noticeable on 4K)
15:24 sfan5 the higher the resolution the less noticeable are the artifacts
15:24 Jordach sfan5, get a 4K projector
15:24 PilzAdam Jordach, you dont like my anti-spoiler campaign?
15:24 Jordach and scale a 4K image up to 90''
15:24 Jordach PilzAdam, i agree
15:25 sfan5 PilzAdam: spoilers are good (but sometimes used incorrectly)
15:25 PilzAdam s/sometimes/almost always/
15:25 sfan5 also I won't be the person going through all posts and removing spoiler tags
15:25 sfan5 no
15:26 PilzAdam you just have to disable the tag
15:26 PilzAdam maybe alias it to [code] or so
15:26 sfan5 lolno
15:27 sfan5 images are often within spoilers
15:27 sfan5 that will look like the author of the post has no grasp of forum syntax
15:27 PilzAdam then simply ignore the spoiler tag
15:28 sfan5 spoilers can be used to hide away screenshots
15:28 sfan5 I wanted it for that usecase and it works fine
15:28 sfan5 but if someone decides to misuse them it isn't the right way to remove then
15:29 sfan5 if that would apply to the real world we wouldn't have any kitchen knives, baseball bats or nails
15:29 sfan5 we wouldn't have <n> -> <n> would be forbidden
15:31 PilzAdam https://forum.minetest.net/vie​wtopic.php?pid=130173#p130173
15:31 PilzAdam hiding content from users is never good
15:32 sfan5 PilzAdam: I wanted spoilers to be used for hiding away a big pile of screenshots/crafting reciepes one would not prefer to have in their face
15:33 sfan5 just putting 1 screenshot/crafting receipe behind a spoiler is misusing for me too
15:33 PilzAdam read the IRC log in the linked topic
15:33 sfan5 I did
15:33 * Jordach drops the bass on sfan5
15:34 PilzAdam there could be some table of contents, and you could move all the examples / screenshots / whatever at the end
15:34 * sfan5 drops a kitten on Jordach
15:34 sfan5 like I already said it's not good to remove functionality because someone misuses it
15:34 sfan5 that's like removing pickeaxes because griefers use them
15:35 sfan5 >table of contents
15:35 sfan5 we could use mediawiki syntax for the forum then
15:35 PilzAdam the problem mainly exists because we have rather large posts for mods and servers
15:35 PilzAdam a wiki would be better for some of the mods
15:37 * Jordach is either a spastic, or a retard
15:37 * sfan5 taps Jordach
15:37 Jordach >rendering test >choose wrong object to not render
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15:37 Jordach sfan5, i cloned VanessaE's minetest cache :>
15:38 Jordach which means i do it daily, just to pull VE's skin DB :>
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15:57 Jordach hey NekoGloop
15:57 NekoGloop what do you want
15:58 Jordach not a lot :>
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15:58 Jordach although my rendering and modeling capabilities are skyrocketing :P
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16:00 * Jordach wonders if it's possible to have a plane that displays the rendered result, which displays the rendered result...
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16:06 Jordach i should really move those two launchers...
16:07 Jordach Clementine and Blender are right next to each other
16:26 rubenwardy Hi all
16:27 rubenwardy http://flapmmo.com/
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16:29 Jordach for fuck sakes
16:33 john_minetest Jordach: http://i.imgur.com/uCHwISo.gif
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16:34 Jordach so THERE'S the kitten gen
16:35 john_minetest Jordach: No, THERE it is: http://imgur.com/gallery/uTPZrlz
16:37 reactor You're doing it wrong. Kittens are supposed to be used for experiments on Schroedinger paradox.
16:37 Jordach technically the thing is linear
16:37 Jordach the kitten is live until an atom decays
16:38 reactor When it decays, no one knows.
16:38 reactor Whether it will or will not decay, no one knows.
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17:03 john_minetest everybody knows
17:03 john_minetest when looking.
17:04 reactor But until then                noощщщщщщщщщщ
17:10 rubenwardy Stronghold 2 time
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17:11 john_minetest Platform(s) Microsoft Windows
17:11 john_minetest Microsoft Windows
17:11 john_minetest Windows
17:11 john_minetest ...
17:12 john_minetest Hmmm...
17:12 john_minetest There are no real egoshooters for linux
17:13 Jordach there's always happy wheels
17:13 john_minetest And nothing comparable to arma
17:14 john_minetest happy wheels doesn't work for me.
17:14 Jordach flash player 11+
17:14 john_minetest Flash is not made for games.
17:14 john_minetest It was made for animations.
17:14 Jordach true
17:14 Jordach but there was enough framework to do it
17:14 john_minetest Gnash 0.8.10
17:15 Jordach i use apt-get ubuntu-restricted-extras
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17:16 john_minetest I got flash in the repo but adobe sucks.
17:16 john_minetest gimp, gnash and mupdf/evince ftw.
17:17 reactor flesh player
17:17 Jordach plol
17:18 VanessaE john_minetest: it should work now.
17:20 reactor pJordach: pI pcan ptalk plike pthat, ptoo.
17:27 Calinou <Jordach> flash player 11+
17:27 * Calinou removed it
17:27 Calinou surprisingly, some Flash video players turned into HTML 5 ones on some sites
17:27 Calinou no gnash/lightspark
17:27 reactor The sad part of that equation is "some".
17:28 Calinou for me... that's "all", since I barely ever play video.
17:28 Calinou or almost all
17:28 Calinou and there's always other ways to get them
17:28 reactor youtube-dl \m/
17:28 reactor The name is confusing, though. They should rename it.
17:30 john_minetest Srsly... the shooter with the best graphics on linux is a quake clone...
17:31 john_minetest well, and some other shooters that are no clones but directly based on the quake engine...
17:32 Calinou it's _not_ a Quake clone
17:32 Calinou and not even a CPMA clone
17:32 Calinou go say to Samual that Xonotic is a CPMA clone
17:32 Calinou he'll almost ban you
17:33 Calinou john_minetest, Tesseract, Sauerbraten, Red Eclipse are not based on Quake at all
17:33 Calinou so, learn your lessons again
17:34 reactor ...most people who criticise UNIX haven't ever been seriously using it.
17:47 PilzAdam I love these kinds of bugs: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=8595
17:47 PilzAdam they repeatedly solve themselves
17:51 john_minetest Calinou: " the shooter with the best graphic"
17:52 john_minetest I don't consider xonotic or sauerbraten as really good grapics.
17:52 john_minetest Those things are comic style.
17:53 john_minetest Some tactical shooters would be nice. Something like Operation Flashpoint or Arma.
17:53 Calinou try Tesseract
17:54 Calinou tactical shooters can (somehow) be made by editing variables
17:54 Calinou (doesn't require source code editing, you just need admin access to a server)
17:54 Calinou "Something like Operation Flashpoint or Arma." the problem is, these games require a lot more work on art, usually, and they can cause ethical problems sometimes
17:55 john_minetest This is a screenshot of one of the games with the  most realistic graphics I could find: http://www.urbanterror.info//files/stati​c/images/pics/presentation/shot0011.jpg
17:55 john_minetest (Based on the quake engine)
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17:55 john_minetest Most shooters on Linux are also just arena games.
17:57 john_minetest Of course games need art. But I am not requesting a top-notch shooter with everything but for a tactical shooter. If people like that genre, they can mod it or make new, better models.
17:57 john_minetest Actually the most important thing is a framework for doing that.
17:58 john_minetest gtg, cya
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17:58 Jordach ...you have a guy who's got a few gun models sitting around waiting for action
18:01 FreeFull I like Warsow with Racesow
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18:16 RealBadAngel sfan5, here?
18:16 * VanessaE pokes RealBadAngel (just because. ;) )
18:16 RealBadAngel hi
18:16 VanessaE hey
18:24 RealBadAngel i need windows build with #1117
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18:34 sfan5 RealBadAngel: yes
18:34 RealBadAngel sfan5, can you build it for me?
18:34 sfan5 sure
18:35 RealBadAngel superb
18:37 sfan5 wow
18:37 sfan5 you used branches?
18:38 sfan5 nice :-)
18:38 RealBadAngel for a few weeks already
18:44 sfan5 RealBadAngel: http://sfan5.duckdns.org/minet​est-0.4.9-3da5669-rba-win32.7z
18:44 RealBadAngel thx
18:44 RealBadAngel i need to test the shaders on windows
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18:59 VanessaE ohh
19:00 * VanessaE waits for a list of obscure errors :P
19:01 RealBadAngel better to test it before than wait for such list
19:01 VanessaE I meant from you :P
19:02 RealBadAngel you mean with hdx maps?
19:02 VanessaE I meant I expected you would find some list of glitches that worked fine in Linux but don't seem to work exactly right in Windows :)
19:02 VanessaE (any texture pack)
19:03 VanessaE I was trying to make a joke
19:03 RealBadAngel we will see
19:03 VanessaE way to kill it, RBA :P
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19:06 hoodedice joined #minetest
19:20 * NekoGloop throws a kitten at RBA
19:20 NekoGloop oh shit he left
19:20 NekoGloop uh
19:20 NekoGloop as you were.
19:20 * hoodedice throws kitten back
19:23 Pest joined #minetest
19:24 * whiskers75 kitten!
19:24 * hoodedice kicks Pest (Reason: he was a pest)
19:26 rubenwardy Back
19:26 Taoki joined #minetest
19:26 NekoGloop meow
19:26 hoodedice Arf
19:26 hoodedice ARF ARF
19:27 hoodedice BOW ARF BOW BOW BOW WOW ARF ARF
19:27 * rubenwardy places a kitten on NekoGloop's head
19:31 * sfan5 gives rubenwardy a kitten
19:31 * sfan5 taps rubenwardy
19:31 * sfan5 throws a kitten at rubenwardy
19:31 * sfan5 puts a kitten on rubenwardy's head
19:31 sfan5 meow
19:31 hoodedice BARK
19:31 ShadowNinja ,,kitten :-)
19:31 * ShadowBot hands ShadowNinja a kitten
19:32 sfan5 ,,twokittens
19:32 sfan5 :-(
19:32 hoodedice ,,kitten =)
19:32 * ShadowBot hands hoodedice a kitten
19:32 rubenwardy Might add /kit name to my client
19:32 sfan5 ,,kitten 2
19:32 hoodedice Yaay
19:32 * ShadowBot hands sfan5 a kitten
19:32 sfan5 ShadowBot: I WANTED TWO KITTENS :-( :-( :-(
19:32 ShadowNinja ~kitten sfan5
19:32 * ShadowBot hands sfan5 a kitten
19:32 * rubenwardy puts a kitten on kit's head
19:33 rubenwardy oh
19:33 ShadowNinja I could add annother parameter for that.
19:33 rubenwardy used %1, not %2
19:33 rubenwardy :{
19:33 rubenwardy :P
19:33 hoodedice ,,kittens =)
19:33 hoodedice ,,pizza =)
19:33 * rubenwardy puts a kitten on sfan5's head
19:33 hoodedice Y U NO PIzZA?
19:33 rubenwardy /kit sfan5
19:33 * sfan5 throws hoodedice at a pizza
19:33 hoodedice such grammer
19:34 * rubenwardy puts a kitten on hoodedice's head
19:36 * rubenwardy puts a kitten on hoodedice's head
19:36 hoodedice *kitten bites hoodedice*
19:36 * rubenwardy puts a kitten on hoodedice's head
19:36 rubenwardy yay!
19:36 * hoodedice slaps rubenwardy
19:36 * sfan5 taps hoodedice
19:36 hoodedice ,,kitten
19:36 * ShadowBot hands hoodedice a kitten
19:36 hoodedice Ow
19:37 PilzAdam this user in the forums is insulting me: https://forum.minetest.net/vie​wtopic.php?pid=130208#p130208
19:37 * rubenwardy defenestrates hoodedice's cat
19:37 * rubenwardy puts a kitten on PilzAdam's head
19:37 * rubenwardy defenestrates PilzAdam's head
19:38 * rubenwardy found User Commands in HexChat
19:38 hoodedice !g defenestrate
19:38 MinetestBot hoodedice: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defenestration
19:38 hoodedice :O
19:38 ShadowNinja ~g defenstrate
19:38 ShadowBot ShadowNinja: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Defenstrate | An act of throwing someone or something out of a window. [From de- + Latin fenestra, window.] defenestration (diːˌfɛnɪˈstreɪʃən). n. 1. the act of throwing ...
19:38 * rubenwardy puts a kitten on rubenwardy's head
19:39 ShadowNinja ^ More helpfull.  :--
19:39 ShadowNinja :-)
19:39 rubenwardy awesome word
19:39 hoodedice OKay people important stuff
19:40 ShadowNinja Er, ,,(g defenestrate)
19:40 ShadowBot ShadowNinja: http://www.merriam-webster.c​om/dictionary/defenestration | a throwing of a person or thing out of a window. 2. : a usually swift dismissal or expulsion (as from a political party or office). — de·fen·es·trate
19:40 rubenwardy PilzAdam: he probably thinks you are a troll, now
19:40 hoodedice Someone connected to my server
19:40 ShadowNinja Same thing though.
19:40 hoodedice with this : error drawhotbar NULL
19:40 hoodedice Latest git didn't work on his Windows 7 system, probably crashed
19:41 hoodedice Where latest git = sfan5's latest build
19:41 sfan5 have your searched in the github issues?
19:43 hoodedice I haven't but he managed to connect
19:47 cisoun joined #minetest
19:48 ShadowNinja Foo & Foo::operator=(const Foo &f) { assert(this != NULL); }  --> Assertion failed.    ???
19:49 sfan5 ShadowNinja: c++ is magic
19:49 * rubenwardy defenestrates sfan5's c++
19:49 * rubenwardy defenestrates sfan5's c++_compiler
19:50 sfan5 I didn't want g++ anyway
19:50 ShadowNinja test: nbt.cpp:62: NBT::Tag& NBT::Tag::operator=(const NBT::Tag&): Assertion `this != __null' failed.  (C++11)
19:50 * rubenwardy puts a compiler on sfan5's head
19:50 sfan5 NBT as in the format minecraft uses
19:50 sfan5 ?
19:50 rubenwardy ^ /put compiler sfan5
19:50 * sfan5 puts python on rubenwardy's head
19:50 rubenwardy lol
19:51 ShadowNinja sfan5: Yep.
19:51 ShadowNinja http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6950682/
19:52 ShadowNinja sfan5: I'm writing a parser (and writer).  It's for a MC2MT converter.
19:52 sfan5 ah
19:53 Jordach HEY
19:53 Jordach HEEEYYYY
19:53 sfan5 HEEEEEEEYYYYYYYYYY
19:53 Jordach i made something with that name, you can GTFO
19:54 rubenwardy ShadowNinja, texture packs, or maps, or other?
19:54 ShadowNinja Jordach: Wasn't it MC4MT?
19:54 ShadowNinja rubenwardy: Maps.
19:54 rubenwardy cool
19:54 Jordach close enough
19:54 rsiska joined #minetest
19:55 rubenwardy oooooooh, trademarking fight!
19:59 hoodedice sfan5
19:59 hoodedice WorldEdit: I saved a file from another world
19:59 hoodedice But cant load it into a newer world
19:59 hoodedice The original world is deleted
20:00 Jordach PilzAdam, Insluting <- fix yer typos
20:00 rubenwardy Enslutting
20:02 sfan5 hoodedice: lua error?
20:03 monkeycoder joined #minetest
20:04 Miner_48er joined #minetest
20:04 hoodedice Failed to load
20:05 hoodedice Where is the stuff stored?
20:09 Megaf joined #minetest
20:11 hoodedice I'm kinda frustrated
20:11 hoodedice I usually allow only well known members of this community to join my server
20:11 hoodedice Today, I allowed this newbie to join too
20:11 sfan5 hoodedice: <worlddir>/scmes
20:11 sfan5 schems*
20:11 hoodedice 5 minutes in the game, and now he's fishing among my other clients for someone to play on HIS MC server
20:12 hoodedice *facepalm*
20:12 sfan5 MC?
20:12 sfan5 lolwat
20:12 domtron joined #minetest
20:12 hoodedice yes, Minecraft
20:12 Miner_48er hoodedice what type of server'
20:12 hoodedice I said that I didn't have it, and now he;s telling me to torrent it
20:13 hoodedice A private server only for members of this flash game community I used to be on
20:14 hoodedice Now look at him
20:14 hoodedice "Feels like I'm playing a Chinese rip-off of MC"
20:14 hoodedice slash kick
20:14 hoodedice lol
20:16 * Jordach pokes hoodedice ;)
20:17 Jordach whoever's got a skin on VE's servers: you're screwed - i cloned the entire DB via MITM packet captures :>
20:17 hoodedice ?
20:18 sfan5 Jordach: mitm
20:18 sfan5 lol
20:18 sfan5 you could just have copied stuff from client/cache
20:19 Jordach sfan5, easier
20:19 Jordach they're not named
20:19 Jordach http://www.zimagez.com/zimage​/screenshot-170214-201922.php
20:20 Jordach and the G7 model is incoming (hint; that female render is G7F)
20:23 dante123 joined #minetest
20:25 Jordach hello dante123
20:29 LazyJ joined #minetest
20:29 PilzAdam Jordach, what are you going to do about that post?
20:29 Jordach feck all
20:30 Jordach i'm not going to appear biased :>
20:30 dante123 hi Jordach
20:30 PilzAdam its your job as moderator to moderate
20:30 hoodedice Which post?
20:31 Jordach PilzAdam, technically, an insult under the color of law is fine
20:31 PilzAdam hoodedice, the one where DeepGaze insults me
20:31 hoodedice OMG, gonna check it out
20:32 PilzAdam Jordach, "By registering, you agree to act suitably"
20:33 NekoGloop http://i.imgur.com/ljg1Sz2.png
20:33 * Jordach tilts head
20:35 hoodedice Jordach, wait for a reply
20:35 hoodedice I posted a little warning.
20:35 Jordach alrighty
20:35 Jordach it's not like i give a fuck
20:35 PilzAdam Jordach, insulting is illegal, according to § 185 BGB
20:36 Jordach even though i agree to PilzAdam's idea of killing [spoiler]
20:36 hoodedice https://forum.minetest.net/vie​wtopic.php?pid=130219#p130219
20:36 hoodedice I don't agree
20:36 hoodedice Spoilers ARE pretty useful
20:36 Jordach even better
20:36 domtron joined #minetest
20:36 dante123 joined #minetest
20:36 Jordach one click that's it bullshit
20:37 svv joined #minetest
20:38 PilzAdam Jordach, okay, then Ill get my other signature back again
20:39 Jordach i made no opinion, locked it, and let IT DIE.
20:39 PilzAdam moderating a topic != closing it
20:40 EvergreenTree Okay, this is stupid.   It's impossible to get anyone's attention on #minetest-dev
20:40 EvergreenTree I guess I'll ask here then
20:41 EvergreenTree https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/240
20:41 phantombeta joined #minetest
20:41 PilzAdam EvergreenTree, the problem is that nobody cares
20:42 EvergreenTree My problem is that #minetest-dev is where pull requests should be mentioned.  So why is that not the case?
20:42 EvergreenTree Sure they may not care, but at least someone can say something
20:42 svv because not everyone is on irc all of the time?
20:42 Gethiox joined #minetest
20:42 EvergreenTree what is the point of pull requests if no one pays attention to them?
20:42 EvergreenTree sw, the people I'm talking about are
20:43 EvergreenTree They just aren't paying attention
20:43 svv Oh, I have no idea to be honest. A lot of people idle on irc because they have bouncers.
20:43 phantombeta Hello
20:44 EvergreenTree sw, Yeah.   I have no idea why people do that
20:44 EvergreenTree Hi phantombeta
20:44 phantombeta How's it going?
20:44 svv too lazy to re-ident with nickserv every time :P
20:46 EvergreenTree I do.  :P
20:47 EvergreenTree It is annoying, but I don't really mind
20:47 exoplanet joined #minetest
20:47 exoplanet joined #minetest
20:58 EvergreenTree PilzAdam: What's the point of pull requests if no one pays any attention to them?   When I posted it here, I was told to go to -dev
20:58 EvergreenTree Then when I go there, you tell me No one cares
20:59 PilzAdam nobody seems to care about minetest_game
20:59 domtron joined #minetest
20:59 svv EvergreenTree: did you submit the pull request on Github?
20:59 EvergreenTree Yes, of course
20:59 EvergreenTree I just posted it here
21:00 Jordach PilzAdam, then get the best modders out of the forum access to the minetest_game
21:00 PilzAdam Jordach, why?
21:00 EvergreenTree minetest_game has to be updated
21:00 Jordach because minetest_game is no different to an engine
21:00 EvergreenTree ^ not really true
21:01 Jordach EvergreenTree, then try to base a game without it (most mods need it)_
21:01 EvergreenTree But minetest_game still needs to be maintained
21:01 EvergreenTree minetest_game is sort of an engine, only because it's the default game
21:02 EvergreenTree If it weren't then it is just another set of mods
21:02 PilzAdam I think it would be good to encourage people to make their own games
21:02 Jordach PilzAdam, like anyone will
21:03 PilzAdam I already have a non-minetest_game game
21:03 Jordach because even the wiki says making a mod is easier than making a game
21:03 PilzAdam there are other in the forums
21:03 svv is minetest not going for feature parity with minecraft?
21:03 EvergreenTree Yes, anyone can, but default still needs to be updated and maintained
21:03 EvergreenTree It depends on whether you consider minetest as an engine or a game
21:03 Jordach everything points at the API to extend minetest_game
21:03 PilzAdam svv, not at all, Minetest is a game engine
21:03 PilzAdam Jordach, then the wiki needs to be changed
21:04 EvergreenTree However, most people do not play minetest like it's an engine
21:04 Jordach PilzAdam, start by actually making people want to develop a brand new game
21:04 EvergreenTree ^
21:04 svv I don't doubt that it's a game engine, in the same way that minecraft is an engine with mods.
21:04 Jordach because this is the IDENTICAL problem the 1.8 API for MC faces
21:04 Jordach people will be more interested in making a silly mod rather than a full on game mode
21:04 NekoGloop what 1.8 API
21:05 john_minetest joined #minetest
21:05 NekoGloop ;P
21:05 john_minetest joined #minetest
21:05 john_minetest Hey
21:05 Jordach NekoGloop, Minecraft 1.8 SHOULD come with the API
21:05 NekoGloop it won't
21:05 NekoGloop i guarentee it
21:05 EvergreenTree From what I can tell, it never will
21:07 svv Notch doesn't give a fuck about the game, he's ready to slaughter his goose that lays the golden eggs.
21:07 NekoGloop Notch doesn't even work on it
21:07 Jordach but then: the same problem again: people will just fuck around rather than actually make something useful
21:07 NekoGloop he's retired iirc
21:08 NekoGloop well, not retired from making games
21:08 EvergreenTree Yeah, he really doesn't do anything on minecraft
21:08 NekoGloop but retired from minecraft dev
21:13 hoodedice Whatever happened to MC becoming OSS
21:14 Jordach hoodedice, when sales drop off completely (they're down to 10k a day)
21:14 hoodedice lol
21:14 frecel_ joined #minetest
21:16 EvergreenTree An opinion I have about minetest being an engine:  Most people who play minetest treat it + minetest_game as one thing
21:17 EvergreenTree If you want to cater to about 2% of people who actually migh create a game for it, then fine
21:19 NekoGloop http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SBxsv_T_Jw
21:20 EvergreenTree !title
21:20 EvergreenTree MinetestBot: u fail
21:20 MinetestBot EvergreenTree: Minecraft in 15 seconds - YouTube
21:21 EvergreenTree oh, there we go
21:22 Jordach silly MinetestBot
21:22 * Jordach pets MinetestBot
21:25 * hoodedice kicks MinetestBot
21:25 hoodedice !rainbow ow
21:25 MinetestBot 4o4w
21:26 BrandonReese joined #minetest
21:30 * sfan5 taps Jordach
21:30 * Jordach taps EvergreenTree
21:31 * EvergreenTree taps sfan5
21:31 proller joined #minetest
21:31 troller joined #minetest
21:34 sfan5 good night everyone
21:39 proller joined #minetest
21:47 Tg1 joined #minetest
21:47 Tg1 hello
21:51 proller joined #minetest
21:52 NekoGloop does tapping EvergreenTree provide green mana?
21:52 EvergreenTree lol
21:52 blaise joined #minetest
21:59 svv left #minetest
21:59 domtron is there anyway to link a key to a formspec/detached inventory?
22:00 domtron with the current lua API
22:00 * EvergreenTree slaps Jordach
22:00 PilzAdam not any key, just the ones that already have a function
22:02 EvergreenTree What do I have to do to get any attention on -dev?  It's like I'm muted on there or something
22:02 EvergreenTree I'm told to go there to show off pull requests, and I just get ignored
22:04 hoodedice ...
22:04 hoodedice I feel you bro/sis/bis/sro
22:04 EvergreenTree lol
22:05 Jordach 0.0
22:05 EvergreenTree ?
22:06 EvergreenTree Why are the core devs such elitists?
22:06 Jordach hoodedice, +0 for the transgender reference.
22:06 EvergreenTree I hate having to even get a response from any of them
22:06 EvergreenTree even a bad response
22:07 PilzAdam EvergreenTree, I already responded to you
22:07 EvergreenTree They are just infuriating
22:07 terminator joined #minetest
22:07 EvergreenTree That is not the response I was looking for
22:07 PilzAdam <EvergreenTree> even a bad response
22:07 EvergreenTree "No one cares" is not a good answer
22:07 EvergreenTree I said I hate having to get a response
22:08 EvergreenTree I'm not talking about the pull request in that case
22:08 EvergreenTree When I said "I hate having to get a response" I wasn't talking about the response to the pull request
22:08 PilzAdam nobody is interested in minetest_game, since its a boring game, and any attempt to make it better fails because of people bitching arround
22:08 hoodedice Wow.
22:09 hoodedice Suchh fucking pessimism
22:09 PilzAdam thats why we have a semi-official agreement to not touch it
22:09 Guest34104 How are people able to hack minetest? I run a small server and keep getting hackers. How are they able to do it? Is there any way to prevent it? Somethimes they can fly and other privs seem to be enabled even though they're not. Thanks.
22:09 hoodedice If this is the attitude, I don;t know how we can move ahead?
22:09 PilzAdam hoodedice, all core devs mainly focus on the engine
22:09 EvergreenTree So you expect the stagnant community to create games for you?
22:10 hoodedice Evergreen, actually, yes
22:10 PilzAdam EvergreenTree, not really
22:10 PilzAdam I mostly care about creating an engine
22:10 EvergreenTree what n00b want to find out that the engine doesn't actually come with a playable game?
22:10 PilzAdam and I also create a game myself
22:10 EvergreenTree Well, then someone needs to care about making a playable game for that engine
22:10 EvergreenTree that comes by default
22:10 hoodedice Because that's hat Celeron said himself
22:11 EvergreenTree It is useless developing the engine
22:11 PilzAdam thats your opinion
22:11 EvergreenTree Wait, that came out wrong
22:12 EvergreenTree What I meant is that the engine matters to modders and developers
22:12 EvergreenTree the game matters to people who are just playing to have fun
22:13 Guest34104 How are people able to hack minetest? I run a small server and keep getting hackers. How are they able to do it? Is there any way to prevent it? Somethimes they can fly and other privs seem to be enabled even though they're not. Thanks.
22:14 hoodedice Guest34104, please wait for a reply. PilzAdam!
22:15 PilzAdam Guest34104, hacking Minetest is quite easy
22:15 PilzAdam and the anti-cheat mechanisms on the server are quite simple
22:17 Guest34104 So how do they hack and how do you prevent it?
22:17 proller joined #minetest
22:17 PilzAdam I am not interested in telling you how to hack clients
22:18 PilzAdam and there are probably ways to prevent that on the server side, someone just needs to do it
22:18 domtron joined #minetest
22:20 domtron joined #minetest
22:21 domtron joined #minetest
22:40 Jordach Tonights news in #minetest-dev: The knives come out as PilzAdam, VanessaE and EvergreenTree duke it out over merging Animated Furnaces. Film at 11.
22:40 EvergreenTree lol
22:40 EvergreenTree minetest-dev is like a soap opera
22:40 Jordach HEY
22:40 Jordach i said that a while back
22:41 EvergreenTree oh, you did?
22:41 Jordach looks like you're recycling my shit
22:41 EvergreenTree sorry.
22:41 EvergreenTree :P
22:41 EvergreenTree I made that up
22:41 Jordach EvergreenTree, sfan5 had that for ~4 months as a sig
22:42 EvergreenTree I remember hearing it somewhere before, didn't know it was yours
22:42 Jordach i should really do those news snippets (taking in parts of IRC.)
22:43 EvergreenTree Lol
22:43 EvergreenTree IRC newspaper
22:43 EvergreenTree "The IRC Journal"
22:44 EvergreenTree Wow, some discussions go way off the point at which they started
22:45 PilzAdam EvergreenTree, welcome to #minetest
22:45 Jordach pfft
22:45 Jordach :P
22:46 whmark joined #minetest
22:46 EvergreenTree #minetest - polotics and everything in between
22:46 Jordach politics*
22:46 Jordach </grammar_nazi>
22:46 PilzAdam *poltics
22:47 Jordach pffffffffffffffffffffftttttttt
22:47 PilzAdam </real_....>
22:47 PilzAdam :-p
22:47 * Jordach reloads the channel shotguhn
22:47 Jordach -h
22:48 PilzAdam the guhn! he has the guhn!
22:49 Jordach sag Hallo zu meinem kleinen flammenwerfer
22:49 PilzAdam Hallo
22:49 theTroy joined #minetest
22:50 domtron joined #minetest
22:52 domtron joined #minetest
23:01 Tg1 joined #minetest
23:14 OldCoder joined #minetest
23:22 OldCoder joined #minetest
23:42 Enke joined #minetest
23:44 OldCoder joined #minetest
23:49 MinetestBot GIT: 4Evergreen4 commited to minetest/minetest_game: Add animated front texture for active furnace a5dcf123e0 2014-02-17T15:21:08-08:00 http://git.io/Yq7GZg
23:49 EvergreenTree Woohoo
23:56 Enke So, furnaces now have an animated texture?

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