Time Nick Message 00:20 EvergreenTree o/ 00:20 EvergreenTree /wavebranch 00:32 EvergreenTree Is anyone here? It's like a graveyard 00:32 * EvergreenTree throws kittens everywhere 00:34 PandemoniuM this is the kitten kickatorium 00:35 harrison i am here but i suppose that is not exactly the news you were hoping for 00:36 * VanessaE summarily ignores the bot 00:36 harrison ah, so my plan succeeded! they think i am a bot! 01:04 harrison http://venturebeat.com/2013/12/12/bots-are-now-the-dominant-species-on-the-internet-study-says/ 01:34 nhm hello! 01:35 VanessaE hi 01:35 nhm Is anyone familiar with the v.reader from vtech? I've been kind of thinking about scripted kids stories with highlighted words paired with something like minetest. Stories about growing things that you participate in. Teaching reading, and various subjects concurrently. 01:37 nhm potentially you could have different worlds that the child can open and go to that teach about different things. Volcanos, farming, polar habitats, gravity, mathematics, circuits, pistons, etc 01:39 VanessaE interesting idea 01:39 VanessaE easily done in Minetest since it's scriptable 01:40 VanessaE a custom game would be needed, but that's trivial really 01:40 nhm VanessaE: It's about as close as I think you can get right now to a Young Lady's Illustrated Primer. 01:40 VanessaE the hard part would be limiting the user/child to only those activities that you want them to participate in 01:41 nhm VanessaE: I think the goal would be to make it very free form, but encouraging certain activities. IE, rewards for participation. 01:41 nhm Maybe custom NPCs that provide rewards in game for completing certain activities. 01:42 VanessaE then that would be dead easy to do 01:42 nhm IE helping a farmer plant seeds and irrigate the crops. 01:43 nhm I think the hardest part is building and populating the worlds, creating the stories and the cirriculum. 02:47 Exio4 This video contains content from BMG_Rights_Management, UMG, Warner Chappell, SACEM, PEDL and UMPI, one or more of whom have blocked it in your country on copyright grounds. 02:47 Exio4 fuck you 02:48 Exio4 why do you block a video when there are 15 more next to it with the same title.. 02:51 NekoGloop that would be the auto-flag-everything bot 04:14 Tx_Rushfan Hi all 04:15 Tx_Rushfan anyone else here? 04:15 NakedFury working 04:15 ShadowNinja Tx_Rushfan: No, only 100 ghosts. 04:15 Tx_Rushfan lol 04:16 Exio4 100 ghosts? i would have same there were some zombies around! 04:16 Exio4 anyway, watching hannibal before going to sleep isn't that nice 04:16 Tx_Rushfan http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s302/harvestr/Minetest/darkblocks.jpg?t=1386905832 04:16 Tx_Rushfan what is causing the dark patches? 04:16 Tx_Rushfan Whenever I lay down a region of nodes with worldedit this happens 04:17 Exio4 lighting bugs? 04:17 Tx_Rushfan I love minetest but this is killer for me unless I find a fix 04:17 Exio4 well, we're all looking for a fix too :) 04:17 Tx_Rushfan Are you saying it is a known bug and we are waiting for a fix. If so kk. 04:17 Exio4 sadly ^ 04:17 * ShadowNinja adds photobucket to his "evil sites" list. 04:18 Tx_Rushfan LOL 04:18 Exio4 why evil site? 04:18 Tx_Rushfan I'm game for a better alternative. its just a an account I set up years ago and use now and then. 04:18 Exio4 no site is evil with requestpolicy, noscript, ghostery, adblock and flashblock! 04:18 Exio4 (and it is the short list of addons!) 04:18 ShadowNinja Exio4: Random ad over the whole page that you can't (easily) close until you've waited about 10s. 04:19 * Exio4 didn't see any random ad 04:19 Exio4 because man, this is the paranoic firefox profile 04:19 Tx_Rushfan How old is this lighting bug 04:19 Exio4 Tx_Rushfan: how old is minetest? 04:19 Tx_Rushfan Oh man no way 04:19 Exio4 as far as i know ;P 04:20 Tx_Rushfan so how the heck can someone build anything other than just manually laying down a billion blocks? 04:20 Exio4 i don't play minetest 04:20 Tx_Rushfan Anyone used another similar app that works? 04:20 NakedFury adblock and ghostery to the rescue 04:20 Exio4 (and if you are even more paranoic, requestpolicy and noscript!) 04:20 NakedFury plugin up your browser or stop interneting 04:21 Tx_Rushfan I just need a minecraft-like app with creative mode for flying and unlimited blocks, good render distace and fast. I tried Terasology - looks great but slow render and map gen is strange. 04:21 NakedFury well minetest works but yes that lightning bug is mega annoying 04:22 Exio4 Tx_Rushfan: if you didn't say fast i would recomend you minecraft 04:22 Exio4 also, who here doesn't use Stylish with a dark CSS theme 04:23 kizeren I have not seen this lighting bug yet on my server/world. 04:23 kizeren I guess I am lucky so far. 04:23 Tx_Rushfan minecraft needs to be rewritten in C++ 04:23 Exio4 it shouldn't 04:24 Tx_Rushfan writing a 3d game, even one with just blocks in Java is like building a website as a powerpoint presentation. 04:24 NakedFury I consider minecraft faster than minetest 04:24 Exio4 well, i would like to make a powerpoint presentation that gives me those million dollars 04:24 Exio4 and it is actually faster 04:24 Tx_Rushfan I think minetest is much faster 04:24 NakedFury faster, more fluid 04:25 Exio4 minetest is fucking slow 04:25 Exio4 and it is a known thing 04:25 NakedFury yeah 04:25 Exio4 we're dealing with it since we know minetest 04:25 Exio4 and also, minecraft has a hell lot more of client-side prediction on the "gameplay" part 04:25 Tx_Rushfan minetst flies for me compared to minecraft 04:25 Exio4 what gpu do you have? 04:26 Exio4 minetest runs slowly everywhere 04:26 Tx_Rushfan core i5 04:26 Exio4 i said gpu Tx_Rushfan. 04:26 Exio4 ... * 04:26 Tx_Rushfan oh hell lol 04:26 Exio4 also, i5? 04:26 Tx_Rushfan geForce 650ti I th ink 04:26 kizeren Both minetest and Minecraft run slowly on my computer if both are running as client/server. But if ran as just client. Minetest seems faster. (FPS) that is. 04:27 Exio4 there are i5 that are shitty enough to get fucked by an underclocked FX 4100 and there are some that are fighting against the FX 8320 04:27 Exio4 Tx_Rushfan: you don't even know what is your gpu? 04:28 Tx_Rushfan Well my 360 cube long aircraft carrier in Minectaft....I can't see it from bow to fantail (rear end) 04:28 Tx_Rushfan view distance maxed 04:28 Exio4 maxed to what? 04:29 Tx_Rushfan render distance:far 04:29 Tx_Rushfan unless there is an addon to increase that more 04:29 kizeren If your minecraft still uses "distance:far" then you are very outdated and need to update. 04:29 Tx_Rushfan probably ya 04:29 Exio4 also, use optifine 04:29 kizeren It does it by chunk distance now. 04:30 Exio4 noone actually uses MC without optifine ;P 04:30 kizeren I do. 04:30 Exio4 it does? 04:30 Exio4 since when? 04:30 kizeren Yea it does. 04:30 kizeren 1.7.* 04:30 * Exio4 is still using 1.6 because no bukkit release 04:30 Exio4 i only minecraft rarely in one server and it isn't updated yet 04:30 Exio4 (uber-ontopic to this channel!) 04:30 Tx_Rushfan when I update MC, do I have to back up my files or are they safe 04:31 kizeren THere is bukkit and spigot release for 1.7.* but is unstable and unsporrted. 04:31 kizeren Always backup when updating anything. 04:32 Tx_Rushfan I was just curious if the update autodeles stuff 04:33 kizeren No. But I think chance of chunk corruption so they say. 04:33 Exio4 oh man 04:33 Exio4 this is shit 04:33 Exio4 using my wifi, the max bandwidth i can achieve is 180kb/s between my fx and the android 04:33 Exio4 woo, 250! 04:34 Exio4 and i'm downloading files from the FX that are about 90 mb total 04:34 Exio4 :( 04:44 Tx_Rushfan http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s302/harvestr/Minecraft/TxRushFanCarrier.jpg?t=1386909766 my full scale Nimitz class carrier done in MC. It still has a lot of work to be done like the tower and my custom textures reloaded 04:45 Tx_Rushfan I was really hoping to rebuild it in Minetest but until the lighting issue is fixed......hmmmmm 05:05 Tx_Rushfan . 05:05 Tx_Rushfan bump :P 05:25 us}0gb What is the lighting issue, anyway? I haven't done much with Minetest lately due to my bogus graphics card. 05:32 Tx_Rushfan oh hey, sorry 05:32 Tx_Rushfan http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s302/harvestr/Minetest/darkblocks.jpg?t=1386905832 that! 05:32 Tx_Rushfan when laying down large fields of node that happens 05:52 VanessaE bbl 06:19 reactor o/ 07:57 matsetes Hi! 07:57 matsetes Is there someone who uses technic mod? 07:58 reactor Hang on in here. 07:58 reactor Ask the same question in a couple hours, I remember someone from that timezone using it. 07:59 matsetes Ok, thanks =) 08:00 VanessaE hi 08:00 reactor VanessaE: o/ 08:01 VanessaE how goes? 08:01 VanessaE matsetes: what do you need to know? 08:03 matsetes Oh, hi VanessaE ! 08:03 VanessaE hi :) 08:04 matsetes How to change the mode of the mining drill 08:04 VanessaE try shift-punch 08:05 VanessaE (I didn't know it had different modes?) 08:05 matsetes Yes! Thanks 08:06 VanessaE sure thing 08:06 matsetes Yes, mk2 and mk3 have different mode of mining 08:08 VanessaE ah ok 08:18 matsetes Bye VanessaE and thanks =) 08:18 VanessaE cya 08:18 VanessaE yw 08:19 Miner_48er why are there no recipes for laser mk2,3 08:19 VanessaE I thought the new recipes cheapie and I had discussed were accepted? 08:19 * VanessaE checks the commit history 08:20 VanessaE huh. 08:20 VanessaE guess not. 08:21 VanessaE the plan is to re-balance the recipes for battboxes, mk1/2/3 drills and mk1/2/3 lasers and base them all around energy crystals and more exotic recipes with mese crystals and blocks 08:21 VanessaE at least that's where the discussion went, not sure if that's what the ultimate decision was. 08:22 VanessaE excuse me, Susurrus, not cheapie. 08:22 VanessaE https://github.com/minetest-technic/technic/pull/116 08:22 VanessaE and https://github.com/minetest-technic/technic/issues/109 09:05 hoodedice Jordach! 09:05 hoodedice VanessaE: 09:06 hoodedice MinetestBot! 09:06 MinetestBot hoodedice! 09:06 hoodedice What? 09:06 VanessaE hey hoodedice 09:06 hoodedice It's my last day with a PC 09:06 VanessaE and then what? 09:06 hoodedice Wanna get that thing done with 09:07 hoodedice No PC for an indefinite amount of time 09:07 xyz|real why? 09:07 VanessaE why? 09:07 hoodedice Moving to the US =) 09:07 hoodedice University 09:07 VanessaE are you insane? 09:07 VanessaE oh.. 09:07 hoodedice why lol? 09:07 VanessaE well I guess 09:07 VanessaE too much to go into here, at this hour. 09:07 hoodedice Like, you thought for employment? 09:07 xyz|real are PCs disallowed in US or something? 09:07 hoodedice No, I don't have my own PC 09:08 xyz|real ah 09:08 hoodedice Have to buy one 09:08 VanessaE ahhhh 09:11 hoodedice Anyway... 09:11 hoodedice http://i.imgur.com/EAFPkHk.png 09:11 hoodedice Still in progress 09:12 hoodedice I can't get the crap to move to origin, and when it does, I can't get the grid under it 09:13 VanessaE nice 09:13 VanessaE I like that 09:20 MinetestBot GIT: whatever@xyz.is commited to minetest/minetest: Fix a bug in GenericCAO GENERIC_CMD_UPDATE_POSITION parsing. 67bf7130ce 2013-12-13T01:18:00-08:00 http://git.io/3ZGYqg 09:24 VanessaE night all 09:24 hoodedice Ciao 09:24 JamesTait Good morning all; happy Friday the 13th, and happy Violin Day! :-D 09:24 hoodedice Jordach would be laughing at me right now 09:25 hoodedice It's Friday the 13th? 09:25 VanessaE oh shit 09:25 VanessaE it IS friday the 13th isn't it 09:25 hoodedice W00t 09:25 hoodedice Yaay. 09:25 VanessaE I think I'll just go to bed and stay there. :P) 09:25 VanessaE :P 09:25 VanessaE night all :) 09:26 JamesTait Nigt VanessaE. :) 09:39 hoodedice I need help texturing my model 10:59 rubenwardy https://forum.minetest.net/viewforum.php?id=14 is quite cluttered. I think everything that is not a "minetest-related project" should be moved 11:00 rubenwardy For example: mod idea, general ideas, questions, google blocky 11:17 rubenwardy !title https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=121881#p121881 11:17 MinetestBot rubenwardy: Posting Guidelines (suggested draft) (Page 1) — Minetest-related projects — Minetest Forums 12:43 kaeza mornings 12:47 damir__ helIo 13:46 Hirato is it just me or is latest git badly broken? 13:47 kaeza Hirato, badly broken? 13:47 RealBadAngel whats broken for you? 13:47 Hirato it seems to think my GPU is incapable of OpenGL 1.2 :P 13:48 Hirato which is blatantly false, as my desktop is currently being composited with an OGL 3.0 core context :P 13:51 RealBadAngel whats your os? 13:52 Hirato Arch Linux, with 3.12 kernel and nvidia drivers 13:52 Hirato https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23891252/minetest.png 13:53 RealBadAngel i think i saw something like that already, but cant remember what was the reason 13:53 RealBadAngel btw opengl has nothing to do with main menu 13:53 Hirato the old build I have from 38 revisions back 13:54 Hirato I'm sure it's related, the current build starts up with these messages in the log 13:54 Hirato OpenGL driver version is not 1.2 or better. 13:54 Hirato Warning: OpenGL device only has one texture unit. Disabling multitexturing. 13:54 Hirato GLSL not available. 13:54 RealBadAngel hmm, what driver are you using? 13:54 RealBadAngel open or propertiary? 13:55 Hirato nvidia, I thin kit's version 314.22, let me just confirm 13:55 Hirato 331.20 13:55 kaeza Irrlicht version? 13:55 RealBadAngel have you lately changed your drivers? 13:55 Hirato havne't updated anything sicne my last reboot 13:56 Hirato irrlicht version is 1.8.1 13:56 RealBadAngel please try to get 1.7.3 13:56 RealBadAngel and build with it 13:56 Hirato that's a pain with arch ^^ 13:57 sfan5 hm... why is my hungry games server always so crowded 13:57 RealBadAngel 1.8 is known of some weird errors 13:58 Hirato rather odd it's not happening with the previous revision I built 13:58 proller sfan5, android rush 13:59 Hirato does minetest link dynamically or statically against irrlicht? 13:59 Hirato just wondering if I sohuld rebuild minetest ^^ 14:00 sfan5 Hirato: the headers change too.. 14:00 RealBadAngel 1.8.1 is quite new, its not even a month old. i dont know how it can behave with mt 14:01 Hirato makes me wonder when it came into Arch... 14:01 sfan5 proller: I'm getting many Guest[0-9]+ people 14:01 Hirato if it's after Nov 30, that would explain it :P 14:01 proller sfan5, https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.vicono.build 14:03 sfan5 aah.. I wish they would use someone else to translate it to german 14:03 sfan5 that is just.. 14:03 RealBadAngel i can see polish translation, its quite... strange 14:03 sfan5 'Buildcraft is based on Minetest car engine 0.4.8' 14:04 sfan5 game engine -> de = Spieleengine != Motor 14:04 Hirato vroooom! 14:04 sfan5 I hope they kept the credits 14:04 Hirato RealBadAngel: same result with irrlicht 1.7.3 14:05 RealBadAngel "Enter any password to link the server" 14:05 RealBadAngel Hirato, can you pastebin your logs? 14:06 Hirato which ones? 14:06 RealBadAngel as the game starts 14:06 Hirato just debug.txt? or stdout? 14:06 RealBadAngel from debug 14:07 sfan5 lol.. the nginx log of my hunger games remote_media server is already 58MB 14:08 Hirato there's nothing remotely useful in it aside from the "OpenGL" stuff I posted above 14:08 Hirato should I run ti iwth any flags? 14:10 sfan5 do you have any other video driver installed? 14:10 kaeza sfan5, http://pastebin.com/akMiaR6e 14:10 Hirato not that I know of 14:11 RealBadAngel https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=7832 14:11 Hirato if I did, I'm sure Kwin would have trouble compositing with a OGL 3.0 context, and tesseract would have trouble rendering at full speed using an OGL 4.0 core context 14:11 RealBadAngel some other folks already had that problem 14:11 sfan5 kaeza: nah, it's ok 14:11 sfan5 I don't really care because all accounts get deleted every map reset anyway 14:12 kaeza ah k :P 14:14 Hirato lol, identical circumstances even 14:18 Hirato I see I updated my compiler on december 6th, I wonder if that's related 14:28 sfan5 lolwat.. DeepGaze put ''moderators don't perfect a community, only trim the ones who don't fit.'' in his signature now 14:28 Hirato lol, what did you guys do to him? 14:31 kaeza I see another case of "I'll post random spam and if others don't like it I'll blame the community; I'm never wrong" 14:32 Hirato RealBadAngel: I notice a small difference between the binaries from the last working revision and this broken one 14:32 Hirato libGLESv2.so.2 => /usr/lib/libGLESv2.so.2 (0x00007f80166d7000) <-- the old working one doesn't have this in its ldd dump 14:34 sfan5 ah.. makes sense 14:34 sfan5 because it finds ogles libs it uses them.. and they don't work 14:34 sfan5 Hirato: disable ogles while compiling 14:34 Hirato how? 14:34 sfan5 .. 14:35 Hirato doesn't look like there's a handy -DCMAKE... optoin for it 14:35 sfan5 comment out this line: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/CMakeLists.txt#L173 14:36 Hirato 173, got it 14:38 sfan5 if it works it would be nice if you'd make a post in both threads about the problem 14:38 sfan5 s/(.+)/\1 on how to solve it/ 14:39 kaeza s/(.+) is quite inefficient, it's better to use s/$/blah/ to append :P 14:39 sfan5 ah.. right 14:39 * Hirato wondersit definitely did the trick 14:39 Hirato er.. it definitely did the trick 14:43 Hirato though it's crashing when loading a world now :/ 14:43 * Hirato mucks around with thigns a bit more 14:44 kaeza try running under gdb and see what happens 14:44 kaeza it's better to recompile with -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Debug for that BTW 14:45 Hirato alrady using debug builds :p 14:45 kaeza ah k :P 14:45 Hirato you guys are just making it really hard to maintain my PKGBUILD :P 14:46 Hirato so I take it you lot have a gles renderer that takes precedence over regular OpenGL? 14:47 sfan5 Hirato: not the renderer, you would need ogles irrlicht for that 14:47 sfan5 but just linking to the libs apparently breaks something 14:47 Hirato lol 14:48 Hirato I would've expected irrlicht to drag in openGL itself 14:48 Hirato yay, it works 14:49 Hirato so waht was this I read inthe changelog about "waving trees"? :P 14:50 sfan5 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0pqb_eVo5k 14:50 sfan5 look at that 14:50 kaeza trees greet you when you go near them 14:50 * kaeza runs 14:50 Hirato just like real life when you take acid 14:50 Hirato er.. I just forgot to turn it on in options ^^ 14:51 kaeza it sucks when your graphics card is too shitty to support those effects ;_; 14:51 Hirato lol, it looks like a simple vertex shader 14:51 RealBadAngel make sure you have up to date minetest_game 14:52 RealBadAngel ofc it is simple vertex shader 14:52 Hirato so yeah, any OGL 1.5 GPU sohuld support it :p 14:53 Hirato BETTER WATER THAN SKYRIM 14:53 sfan5 :D 14:53 RealBadAngel better water is a thing to come 14:53 Hirato it's true, skyrim water is completely flat :P 14:55 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/WScbi4Z.png 14:55 sfan5 RealBadAngel: what amount of video mem do you recommend for minetest? 14:55 RealBadAngel i do have 2gb 14:56 RealBadAngel and rather old GPU 14:56 Hirato lol, looks very modern 14:56 iqualfragile sfan5: is there finaly real lighning in minetest? 14:56 sfan5 iqualfragile: not yet :P 14:56 iqualfragile daww 14:56 iqualfragile remove_craft_recepie implemented yet? 14:56 Hirato but I think effort should be spent on realtime lighting stuff so we can wlak around with torches :P 14:57 iqualfragile Hirato: its not about wallking around with torches 14:57 sfan5 RealBadAngel: will this do? http://www.reichelt.de/PCI-Express-Grafikkarten/ASUS-5450-2048/3//index.html?ACTION=3&GROUPID=6178&ARTICLE=133673&SHOW=1&OFFSET=500& 14:57 kaeza oh it was an outdated mt_game :| 14:57 iqualfragile its about having real lightsources and therfore beeing able to really use shaders 14:57 kaeza or rather, my minimalistic game based off mt_game 14:57 Hirato iqualfragile: being able to see in the dark by holdign a burning stick is very important to my immersion! 14:58 Hirato :P 14:58 iqualfragile Hirato: you might need to think about aquiring better eyes and/or monitor 14:58 damir__ holding torches would be very nice yes 14:58 Hirato better monitor probably, CRTs don't display blacks nearly as brightly as LCDs 14:59 Hirato left behind in the stone age of computing 14:59 iqualfragile http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxvH_v37U04 14:59 zsoltisawesome ooooooh 14:59 zsoltisawesome i guess he hates me now 15:00 * Hirato sits back with a box of popcorn 15:00 PilzAdam Hello everyone! 15:00 zsoltisawesome AAAAAAAaaaaahhhh..... 15:01 zsoltisawesome Oh hi! 15:01 iqualfragile oh, gdamn 15:01 RealBadAngel sfan5, it is newer than mine 15:01 iqualfragile who the fück runns this bot? 15:01 RealBadAngel so will do for sure 15:01 iqualfragile could somebody please ban it? 15:02 sfan5 :D 15:02 sfan5 with 60 fps too? 15:02 zsoltisawesome what bot 15:02 Hirato oh yeah, are you guys aware that -DRUNINPLACE=0 just doesn't work probably with global mods/content in the main menu? 15:02 RealBadAngel i have 40-50fps with all shader options on and 256x TP 15:02 zsoltisawesome wow 15:03 zsoltisawesome thats like amazing 15:03 iqualfragile seriously this is spamming 15:03 iqualfragile remove the bot, please 15:03 zsoltisawesome what is 15:03 zsoltisawesome what bit 15:03 * sfan5 bookmarks that gfxcard 15:03 zsoltisawesome *bot 15:03 Hirato I'm pushing 36 FPs with the current shaders, thing is, turning nthem off isn't going to raise it much :P 15:03 * zsoltisawesome wants to steal that gfxcard 15:04 sfan5 zsoltisawesome: well then you need to drive to Sandern, Germany and break into the Reichelt warehouse 15:04 sfan5 or just buy it 15:04 sfan5 36€ isn't much for a gfx card 15:04 Hirato sides, minetest seems to hate being run i na compositor, that just kills framerate from my experience, unless that got fixed 15:05 iqualfragile zsoltisawesome: please repeat after me the exact word: "katoffelsalat" to proove that you are no bot 15:05 zsoltisawesome sadly, there is no Trans-Atlantic Bridge yet 15:05 zsoltisawesome katoffelsalat 15:05 reactor Lol, desktop effects. 15:05 iqualfragile hmm… lets make this a bit harder 15:06 zsoltisawesome I have a PTB 15:06 iqualfragile banana and remove the first letter of the alphabet 15:06 zsoltisawesome this is the legit me 15:06 Hirato reactor: it's not modern unless you're playing doom in halls of interactive walls displaying minetest! 15:06 reactor They contribute neither to eye candy nor productivity. 15:06 RealBadAngel sfan5, mine was worth circa 100eu when i bought it a few yrs ago 15:06 pitriss iqualfragile: make it simpler.. Just let ban this spamer:D 15:06 reactor s/modern/hipster/ 15:06 zsoltisawesome iqualfragile: like bnn? 15:06 iqualfragile good, so you are just a spammer and no bot 15:06 Hirato reactor: that was a joke, you underestimate how much it helps general responsiveness 15:07 iqualfragile which makes it worse 15:07 sfan5 lol 15:07 RealBadAngel Hirato, if you really wanna test the shaders, try this texture pack: http://realbadangel.pl/minetest/HavenNG/HavenNG_256x.zip 15:07 reactor *sarcasm self-test completed 15:08 zsoltisawesome guys, does anyone know the cheapest TLD? 15:08 Hirato if I extract this in ~/.minetest, will that override the stuff installed in /usr/share/minetest? 15:08 iqualfragile .tk 15:08 iqualfragile its free 15:08 iqualfragile Hirato: you need to unzip it in textures i guess 15:08 zsoltisawesome lol 15:09 zsoltisawesome thats what im using XD, its not very well known 15:09 RealBadAngel in /textures folder 15:09 zsoltisawesome http://www.harpnet.tk 15:10 PilzAdam iqualfragile, wheres a bot? 15:10 iqualfragile PilzAdam: turns out ist just a spammer which had a bot running once 15:10 iqualfragile zsoltisawesome would be his name 15:10 zsoltisawesome i was testing a lame little bot 15:11 PilzAdam zsoltisawesome, this is not a test channel 15:11 zsoltisawesome i know 15:11 Hirato everyone knows it's not true parallax mapping unless the surface visibly distorts and moves around as you look at it ;) 15:12 zsoltisawesome it kept switching channels 15:12 zsoltisawesome then it hit an error 15:12 zsoltisawesome and pretty much self distructed 15:13 RealBadAngel Hirato, ? what do you mean? 15:13 Hirato it's a visual artefact from heightmaps 15:13 Hirato usually from being too strong 15:13 RealBadAngel ah that, steep parallax will fix that 15:14 Taoki PilzAdam: I was wondering if you're still working on the simple mobs system. Noticed there are no more updates on its GIT. Still following that interested 15:14 RealBadAngel also silhouette clipping shall be added there 15:14 PilzAdam Taoki, Im not really working on it anymore 15:14 PilzAdam but there is a "fork" of it in Nodetopia 15:15 Taoki ok 15:15 Taoki That means it's no longer considered for being added to builtin either? 15:15 zsoltisawesome Oh, Hello Megaf 15:15 RealBadAngel Hirato, i can suggest tuning setting for parallax a bit 15:15 iqualfragile Taoki: take a look at the latest mobf version it realy improved a lot 15:15 iqualfragile performance wise 15:15 Hirato heh, sure 15:15 Megaf Hi all 15:15 reactor OldCoder: o/ 15:15 Taoki ok. Still liking the simple mobs framework more myself 15:16 zsoltisawesome how does one find out the last time a person was on the channel? 15:16 OldCoder reactor, Well, hello 15:16 OldCoder zsoltisawesome, who? 15:16 iqualfragile btw: does anybody know why the fück minetest is that slow with transparency? 15:16 PilzAdam Taoki, it was never considered to be added to builtin 15:16 OldCoder Anybody in particular? 15:16 * Taoki nods 15:16 OldCoder Bots may have features zsoltisawesome but I can tell you 15:16 Hirato if I have any comments regarding the shaders, what's with the "specularity" near the crosshair? 15:16 reactor I am not a bot. 15:16 OldCoder reactor, indeed 15:17 OldCoder I was speaking to zsoltisawesome regarding his question 15:17 OldCoder Hmm 15:17 Taoki Hirato: Since there's no dinamic lighting yet, a fake light is used. Probably it follows the player 15:17 OldCoder But I had best get to work 15:17 Hirato surely at least the sun could be used? 15:17 RealBadAngel Hirato, add this to your config http://pastebin.com/zXCSm4L8 15:18 Hirato aren't you setting the same var twice? 15:18 Taoki Anyway, BBL 15:18 RealBadAngel ooops 15:18 Hirato just tell me the name of the other one :P 15:19 RealBadAngel http://pastebin.com/eVw6JS9n 15:20 RealBadAngel and oops again 15:20 RealBadAngel lmao, hold on 15:20 * Hirato sighs :P 15:22 RealBadAngel you have just found a bug, config example is not updated :( 15:22 RealBadAngel shit 15:22 Hirato lol 15:23 Hirato looks like the defautls are 0.08 and 0.04 15:23 Hirato and the names are parallax_occlusion, not parallax_mapping ;o 15:24 RealBadAngel parallax_occlusion_scale = 0.06 15:24 RealBadAngel parallax_occlusion_bias = 0.03 15:24 RealBadAngel add those lines 15:26 Hirato you can barely see it 15:26 Hirato this reminds me 15:26 Hirato why does minetest save screenshots in the current directory, and not in ~/.minetest ? 15:27 RealBadAngel you can play with those settings 15:27 Hirato https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23891252/screenshot_3968811630.jpg Wheeeee~! 15:27 RealBadAngel lol 15:28 Hirato now there's the parallax mapping I love to hate 15:28 RealBadAngel what have you applied there? 15:28 Hirato scale == 1 15:28 RealBadAngel ROTFL 15:28 RealBadAngel no wonder 15:28 RealBadAngel almost all examples out there suggest values like 0.04 :P 15:29 Hirato my engine of choice defaults to 0.06 and -0.03 15:29 Hirato i'm not sure if those values have the same effect though 15:29 Hirato since they seem to affect the range of visual offset there 15:30 RealBadAngel 0 means effect off 15:30 RealBadAngel 0.1 is for very strong effect 15:31 RealBadAngel usable values are in between 15:31 Hirato so you enforce a min value of 0? 15:31 iqualfragile Hirato: i see that acid made it into minetest 15:31 RealBadAngel no, its not enforced, its how it works 15:31 Hirato minecraft still has a better acid trip though :( 15:31 Hirato http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpksyojwqzE 15:32 sfan5 lol.. the GEMA didn't like the music in that video 15:32 RealBadAngel with negative vaules you will probaply walk opposite way on eye vector 15:33 Hirato that is kind of the idea with them, -0.03 was meant to state that values of 85 is neutral in the heightmap, with lower vlaue going in, and higher ones coming out 15:33 Hirato (as the other value is 0.06) 15:34 thexyz sfan5: you should start writing decentralized p2p youtube clone 15:34 sfan5 thexyz: maybe tomorrow 15:34 thexyz make sure it'll support .ass subtitles tho 15:34 Hirato so torrents with sequential downloading? 15:34 sfan5 it will use burned-in subtitles /s 15:35 thexyz hardsub D: 15:35 Hirato and they'll be russian subs! 15:35 Hirato and also completely wrong to annoy the russians 15:37 thexyz well 15:37 thexyz russiam subs for the new madoka are better than engrosh ones 15:39 Hirato you'd know wouldn't you, you filthy commie ;) 15:39 thexyz it was translated by some chinese dude I think 15:39 thexyz why much hate 15:39 thexyz do you not remember communistcraft? 15:40 Hirato RealBadAngel: just wondering, does the engine allow large texture block tetxures to be split over multiple blocks? 15:40 rubenwardy Hi all 15:40 sfan5 Hirato: no 15:40 Hirato awh 15:40 rubenwardy https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=7998 15:40 iqualfragile Hirato: no, but that would be great 15:40 rubenwardy !title 15:40 MinetestBot rubenwardy: Posting Guidelines (suggested draft) (Page 1) — Minetest-related projects — Minetest Forums 15:40 iqualfragile hi rubenwardy 15:40 Hirato i imagine tiling would be a pain 15:41 RealBadAngel textures are always tiled with block size 15:42 Hirato i'm just wondering if there's a way to make them tile over 2x2x2 blocks, as opposed to 1x1x1 :p 15:42 Hirato as an example 15:43 rubenwardy kaeza: PM 15:48 iqualfragile Hirato: that would be quite much as complex as generic tiling 15:51 sfan5 RealBadAngel: bump maps need to be _bump. right? 15:52 RealBadAngel no 15:52 RealBadAngel default_stone_normal.png 15:52 RealBadAngel for example 15:52 sfan5 ok, thx 15:53 RealBadAngel normal map should be rgba 15:53 RealBadAngel rgb holds normalmap, alpha channel is for height 15:53 Hirato awh, no explicit heightmap support? :P 15:53 Hirato most engines just copy the heightmap directly into the alpha channel anyway, if they're provided separately, haha 15:54 RealBadAngel no point in having multiple files if all can be done in one file 15:56 RealBadAngel really? 15:56 RealBadAngel i suggest asking uncle 15:56 RealBadAngel rgba format is most common :P 15:56 Hirato yeah 15:56 Hirato RGB normal + grayscale height == RGBA normal in memory 15:59 RealBadAngel the other thing is number of files, imagine texture packs that have thousands of textures 15:59 zsoltisawesome hey, does the airlike flag turn a node transparent? 15:59 Hirato with explicit support, it's their choice if they combine them themselves or not :p 15:59 PilzAdam zsoltisawesome, airlike flag? 16:00 zsoltisawesome like on a node 16:00 PilzAdam zsoltisawesome, there is only an "airlike" drawtype 16:00 zsoltisawesome i meant that 16:00 Hirato I don't really care - should probaly consider using sub directories for different mods in the textures 16:00 zsoltisawesome erm silly me 16:00 PilzAdam zsoltisawesome, yea, that makes the node invisible 16:00 zsoltisawesome ok cool 16:01 RealBadAngel Hirato, makin them in separate files is pointless. and uses double amount of memory. 16:02 zsoltisawesome do you have to use a texture on airlike drawtype nnoes? 16:02 zsoltisawesome *nodes? 16:02 RealBadAngel because you will end with rgb and not used a, then from heightmap you will use just one channel 16:02 Hirato it uses slightly more at best, you're meant to combine them when loading them 16:03 RealBadAngel tell me again whats the point for that if i can select an option in gfx app to save them together? 16:03 * Hirato shrugs 16:03 Hirato it's jsut how everything I've ever worked with does it 16:03 RealBadAngel make the code more complicated just? :) 16:04 Hirato loading code, yes :p 16:04 sfan5 o.O http://i.imgur.com/SXkU6A1.png 16:04 RealBadAngel every application to create normal maps allows that 16:04 Hirato sides, the heightmap is grayscale, you could easily store that in an GL_R8 if you decide not to combine them :P 16:04 RealBadAngel crazybump, gimp plugins etc 16:05 RealBadAngel its pointless to have splitted maps just for sake of having them splitted and later on merge them 16:05 Hirato this remidns me, why do image editors make it so difficult to just mess around with a single channel 16:06 zsoltisawesome do this look tight to you all: https://github.com/lordcirth/moontest/blob/master/init.lua 16:06 zsoltisawesome *right 16:07 zsoltisawesome anyone? 16:19 zsoltisawesome make coffee 16:19 kaeza make: *** No rule to make target `coffee'. Stop. 16:20 EvergreenTree plol 16:20 Hirato kaeza confirmed for bot? 16:20 zsoltisawesome lol 16:20 zsoltisawesome make pie flavored pie 16:22 zsoltisawesome make: *** No rule to make target `pie'. Stop. 16:23 kaeza what 16:23 zsoltisawesome what what 16:23 EvergreenTree o/ 16:23 Jordach o/ 16:23 * kaeza randomly pokes Jordach 16:24 Jordach i found a few bugs with my model while at college 16:24 Jordach fixed em there and then 16:24 EvergreenTree make me a sandwich 16:24 EvergreenTree make: *** No rule to make target `me'. Stop. 16:24 EvergreenTree aww, dangit 16:25 kaeza they also removed `love' :( 16:25 zsoltisawesome ya 16:26 Jordach Jordach@TeslaBolt: $ make tea 16:26 Jordach make: *** No teabags to make target 'tea'. Stop. 16:26 zsoltisawesome lol 16:27 EvergreenTree Also, if you have the lua 2d engine "love" installed, type "love into the terminal and you'll get a nice pink rubber piggy 16:27 * kaeza teabags Jordach 16:27 kaeza http://i1.cpcache.com/product_zoom/160819300/unix_commands_tshirt.jpg?height=250&width=250&padToSquare=true 16:27 kaeza EvergreenTree, Löve* 16:28 zsoltisawesome derp 16:29 zsoltisawesome since i dont have a native Linux machine in the area, i use this http://bellard.org/jslinux/ 16:29 Jordach please don't type yes into the terminal 16:29 Jordach it just prints Y indefinitely 16:29 kaeza duh 16:30 zsoltisawesome lol 16:30 zsoltisawesome waoh 16:30 zsoltisawesome but no doesn't work XD 16:30 kaeza Jordach, it's used for programs which ask for confirmation and don't have a "-q" or "--quiet" or similar option handy 16:30 zash yes nyan nyan nyan nyan nyan 16:30 zsoltisawesome BusyBox v1.18.3 (2012-01-11 21:43:37 CET) multi-call binary. 16:30 zsoltisawesome Copyright (C) 1998-2009 Erik Andersen, Rob Landley, Denys Vlasenko 16:30 zsoltisawesome and others. Licensed under GPLv2. 16:30 zsoltisawesome See source distribution for full notice. 16:30 zsoltisawesome Usage: busybox [function] [arguments]... 16:30 zsoltisawesome or: busybox --list[-full] 16:30 zsoltisawesome or: function [arguments]... 16:31 kaeza yes | program 16:31 Jordach lol 16:31 Jordach Excess Flood 16:31 kaeza or like zash said :P 16:31 zash Pro-tip: Be *very* careful if your irc client allows piping the output of commands into a channel 16:32 zsoltisawesome my clipboard didnt clear 16:32 zsoltisawesome oops 16:32 zsoltisawesome what i meant to say was /bin # no 16:32 zsoltisawesome sh: no: not found 16:32 reactor Jordach: that program is there on purpose. 16:33 reactor Jordach: it's used to repeat input. 16:33 zsoltisawesome yes > no 16:33 zsoltisawesome lol 16:33 reactor The typical usage is "yes [REPEATED INPUT HERE] | [PROGRAM HERE]". 16:34 zash Jordach: like if a program asks a lot of yes/no questions and you want to answer yes to all of them 16:34 zsoltisawesome just say yes! 16:34 zsoltisawesome XD 16:34 reactor zsoltisawesome: no point in separate "no" program. 16:34 reactor You can use "yes n" 16:34 zash alias no='yes n' :D 16:34 reactor Hello, john_minetest 16:34 zsoltisawesome i know 16:34 reactor How's the science? 16:34 zsoltisawesome i just figured that out 16:36 thexyz john_minetest: sam, i think 16:36 EvergreenTree Sam Has sort of become his name 16:37 OWNSyouAll here come the net splits 16:37 PilzAdam sfan5, op party now? 16:37 sfan5 not enough netsplit 16:37 sfan5 we need ChanServ to netsplit for an OP party 16:38 zsoltisawesome whats netsplit? 16:38 sfan5 zsoltisawesome: whats google? 16:38 PilzAdam sfan5, how do we get op then? 16:38 kaeza yay my kaeza account is on one side and diemartin is on the other side 16:38 zsoltisawesome :| 16:38 sfan5 PilzAdam: MinetestB... oh 16:38 reactor zsoltisawesome: pwned. 16:38 zsoltisawesome lol 16:38 reactor !title 16:38 MinetestBot reactor: Document isn't HTML 16:38 zsoltisawesome lol 16:38 sfan5 we can only have op party if chanserv netsplits and MinetestBot stays here 16:39 thexyz why do you always !title stuff with .png at the end? 16:39 reactor MinetestBot: You aren't smart 16:39 kaeza lol Jordach 16:39 kaeza john_minetest, ^ 16:39 sfan5 MinetestBot is smart! 16:39 sfan5 <3 MinetestBot 16:39 MinetestBot <3 sfan5 16:39 PilzAdam in soviet russia png !titles you 16:39 EvergreenTree lol 16:39 reactor No. 16:39 zsoltisawesome lol 16:39 sfan5 hahahaha 16:39 EvergreenTree bwahahah 16:39 reactor In Stoned Russia, title !pngs you 16:39 PilzAdam good ShadowBot 16:39 * sfan5 pets ShadowBot 16:40 reactor zsoltisawesome: pwned 16:40 * EvergreenTree throws a kitten at ShadowBot 16:40 * sfan5 puts a kitten on EvergreenTree's head 16:40 thexyz what the hell? 16:40 reactor Siberia* 16:40 zsoltisawesome reactor: :| 16:40 * john_minetest puts a kitten on EvergreenTree's head 16:40 reactor *SNEEZE* 16:40 reactor Stop mentioning animals, will you? 16:41 thexyz ShadowNinja: your bot is bullying people, please do something 16:41 * zsoltisawesome metions animals 16:41 EvergreenTree /s/head/treetop 16:41 * sfan5 puts Derpy Hooves on reactor's head 16:41 PilzAdam thexyz, he said "lol" 3 times in a row 16:41 thexyz PilzAdam: http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest/2013-12-13#i_3487506 16:41 zsoltisawesome i had nothing else to say 16:41 sfan5 >%D0%A2%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%8C%D0%BA%D0%B0_%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B5%D1%82.JPG 16:41 zsoltisawesome haha 16:41 thexyz I guess freenode borked? 16:42 EvergreenTree lollollollollollollollollollol 16:42 EvergreenTree lol 16:42 sfan5 meow 16:42 EvergreenTree lolvv 16:42 EvergreenTree lol 16:42 * sfan5 puts a kitten on EvergreenTree's head 16:42 EvergreenTree Lolparty? 16:42 * sfan5 puts a kitten on john_minetest's head 16:42 reactor john_minetest: you're repetitive. 16:42 zsoltisawesome lol 16:42 * sfan5 puts a kitten on reactor's head 16:42 EvergreenTree /s/head/treetop 16:42 thexyz 04lol 16:42 * Hirato obits everyone with a banana 16:42 EvergreenTree lol 16:42 reactor sfan5: keep ponies away from me. 16:42 EvergreenTree lol 16:42 thexyz anyway, this is strange 16:42 EvergreenTree lol 16:42 * reactor sneezes again 16:42 sfan5 !rainbow I like kittens. :3 16:42 zsoltisawesome lol 16:42 reactor Kittens, too. 16:42 sfan5 MinetestBot! 16:42 sfan5 wat the 16:43 Hirato !rainbow a magical pudding? 16:43 EvergreenTree <3 ShadowBot 16:43 PilzAdam sfan5, too much lulz for MinetestBot 16:43 EvergreenTree <3 MinetestBot 16:43 zsoltisawesome lol 16:43 reactor A medical pudding. 16:43 Hirato LOLOLOLOLO 16:43 EvergreenTree zsoltisawesome, you're getting owned 16:43 sfan5 :-/ 16:43 zsoltisawesome indeed 16:43 reactor zsoltisawesome: on a regular basis. 16:43 EvergreenTree !rainbow NYANCATS 16:43 zsoltisawesome !rainbow rainbow 16:44 * EvergreenTree sets a nyancat on sfan5's head 16:44 sfan5 freenode broke 16:44 reactor Fail. 16:44 thexyz indeed 16:44 sfan5 MinetestBot disconnected but.. 16:44 EvergreenTree indeedy 16:44 * sfan5 throws a kitten at EvergreenTree 16:44 reactor indeedyish 16:44 * EvergreenTree deflects 16:44 sfan5 another netsplit ahead I think 16:44 Hirato it would've left by now I'd think 16:44 * Hirato sends a ping and waits 16:44 * zsoltisawesome throws a baseball at Hirato 16:44 * sfan5 slaps zsoltisawesome 16:44 EvergreenTree blaaaaargh, 16:45 sfan5 ah.. wrong buttom 16:45 reactor Yay! Vandalism! 16:45 * EvergreenTree slaps everyone 16:45 * Hirato turns into a dog and catches it 16:45 * sfan5 puts Rainbow Dash on Hirato's head 16:45 * reactor tries to break EvergreenTree's branch. 16:45 * zsoltisawesome slaps sfan5 16:45 blaaaaargh EvergreenTreeeeeeeee 16:45 * Hirato has become one with the brony 16:45 * EvergreenTree apprehends reactor 16:45 sfan5 meh 16:45 * EvergreenTree sets Derpyhooves on Hirato's head 16:45 Jordach should i just give MinetestBot a poke? 16:45 * zsoltisawesome becomes very Derpy 16:45 Hirato MinetestBot: you spell like elderberries 16:46 * reactor comprehends EvergreenTree 16:46 zsoltisawesome lol 16:46 EvergreenTree zsoltisawesome, you were already derpy 16:46 EvergreenTree now you've become super derpy 16:46 thexyz I feel offended by your recent action(s). Please read http://stop-irc-bullying.eu/stop 16:46 reactor Indeed. Getting pwned on a regular basis 16:46 zsoltisawesome but now im very derpy 16:46 Hirato derpy^2 16:46 sfan5 MinetestBot! 16:46 reactor Wrong link, thexyz. It's "http://start-irc-bullying.eu/start". 16:46 thexyz lol 16:46 zsoltisawesome I don't feel offended by your recent action(s). Please read http://start-irc-bullying.eu/start 16:46 thexyz reactor: why bully 16:47 zsoltisawesome lol 16:47 reactor thexyz: ? 16:47 reactor I'm not bullying anyone. 16:47 thexyz that's so unnice :( 16:47 Hirato double plus unnice 16:47 reactor I unbellyfeel bronisms. 16:47 thexyz wait 16:48 thexyz do you mean someone actually watches MLP? 16:48 thexyz like, not kids 16:48 reactor john_minetest does. 16:48 zsoltisawesome yes.... 16:48 thexyz but adults? 16:48 reactor He's in denial about it, but it's fine. 16:48 thexyz ah 16:48 thexyz should check it out 16:48 reactor thexyz: I've heard stories about adults being stuck in that. 16:48 sfan5 goddamnit 16:48 sfan5 MinetestBot! 16:48 thexyz or maybe not 16:48 Hirato bronies represent, if anyone else has BALLS, leave a video response of yours. 16:48 * EvergreenTree slaps MinetestBot 16:48 PilzAdam "Feel free to join #start-irc-bullying on irc.rizon.net. – If you don't know how, fuck you." 16:48 zsoltisawesome lol 16:49 EvergreenTree plol 16:49 reactor Heheh. 16:49 reactor john_minetest: I like logic, that's it. 16:49 thexyz lol 16:49 zsoltisawesome john_minetest: +1 16:49 EvergreenTree It's Vulcan 16:49 thexyz ponies with big eyes [...] natural 16:49 thexyz well, okay 16:49 EvergreenTree ^ 16:49 reactor john_minetest: I AM NOT A ROBOT 16:49 thexyz I can buy it 16:49 EvergreenTree ohsnap 16:49 Hirato oh my, live cht 16:49 zsoltisawesome lol 16:49 PilzAdam sfan5, op party now? 16:50 sfan5 ah, finally 16:50 Hirato I know what my opening line is, "hello,? is this abuse?" 16:50 ShadowBot john_minetest: Error: You're missing some capability you need. This could be because you actually possess the anti-capability for the capability that's required of you, or because the channel provides that anti-capability by default, or because the global capabilities include that anti-capability. Or, it could be because the channel or supybot.capabilities.default is set to False, meaning that no commands are allowed unless ex 16:50 reactor Well. 16:50 reactor Eh. 16:50 sfan5 PilzAdam: we can only have op party if chanserv netsplits and MinetestBot stays here 16:50 reactor Animals might be cute, aight. 16:50 reactor But why ponies? 16:50 thexyz john_minetest: what about the plot? 16:50 PilzAdam sfan5, what is MTBot netsplits and ChanServ stays here? 16:50 zsoltisawesome lol the anti-capibility 16:50 Hirato Hmmm.. not sure I want to 16:50 reactor And bronies tend to be overdoing it. 16:50 EvergreenTree !rainbow NYANCAT 16:50 MinetestBot 15N9Y11A6N7C13A6T 16:50 EvergreenTree w0000 16:50 reactor Some even sexualise what is not supposed to be sexualised. 16:50 sfan5 finally.. that's been a long netsplit 16:51 sfan5 PilzAdam: nothing 16:51 thexyz !rainbow Error: You're missing some capability you need. This could be because you actually possess the anti-capability for the capability that's required of you, or because the channel provides that anti-capability by default, or because the global capabilities include that anti-capability. Or, it could be because the channel or supybot.capabilities.default is set to False, meaning that no commands are allowed unless exp 16:51 MinetestBot 7E12r5r10o6r14:11 2Y2o12u15'5r8e6 7m8i10s6s3i13n14g14 8s5o3m11e8 15c6a5p14a7b11i15l7i13t10y14 14y13o7u12 5n10e9e5d10.2 3T9h10i2s13 6c10o7u14l15d8 2b11e3 7b8e12c12a9u9s3e9 4y4o12u8 4a15c8t14u11a6l2l3y12 2p8o2s2s10e8s12s7 11t7h9e8 3a8n3t5i4-15c5a3p3a3b6i14l4i2t2y10 5f7o8r15 14t13h9e2 7c14a11p13a8b2i11l10i13t2y10 9t14h14a 16:51 thexyz why, you didn't even try 16:51 EvergreenTree I'm ashamed of you MinetestBot 16:51 Hirato !rainbow Baguette 16:51 MinetestBot 3B14a15g4u15e15t15t9e 16:51 sfan5 thexyz: limitation in phenny 16:51 MinetestBot EvergreenTree: :-( 16:51 zsoltisawesome !rainbow Rainbow Dash 16:51 MinetestBot 11R15a8i4n4b15o7w12 7D12a5s3h 16:51 MinetestBot 14d4a12s11h 16:51 zsoltisawesome lol 16:52 reactor !rainbow Aperture Science? 16:52 MinetestBot 8A11p6e10r8t3u6r7e13 12S13c6i3e12n4c12e5? 16:52 thardin pone 16:52 zsoltisawesome great minds think alike 16:52 EvergreenTree !slap someone 16:52 zsoltisawesome :D 16:52 reactor !slap EvergreenTree 16:52 Hirato !rainbow Your mind on drugs 16:52 MinetestBot 6Y5o2u5r8 13m15i11n2d11 8o9n11 12d12r13u3g8s 16:52 * MinetestBot slaps EvergreenTree 16:52 reactor No workie :( 16:52 zsoltisawesome !op YourMom 16:52 EvergreenTree That backfired 16:52 thexyz sfan5: btw, rainbow looks a bit different 16:52 reactor MinetestBot is stoned? 16:53 reactor john_minetest: whatever rocks your boat, mate. 16:53 zash You know, in other parts of IRC, even thinking about writing such a command would carry the death penalty 16:53 sfan5 thexyz: yes, ik 16:53 zsoltisawesome tinyurl.com/derpy-hooves-base64 16:54 zsoltisawesome it takes a very long time to laod 16:54 zsoltisawesome lol 16:54 reactor john_minetest: ? 16:54 zsoltisawesome !title 16:54 MinetestBot zsoltisawesome: Document isn't HTML 16:54 zsoltisawesome fail 16:54 reactor john_minetest: I mean, whatever stones your bot. 16:54 zsoltisawesome lol 16:54 zsoltisawesome http://tinyurl.com/derpy-hooves-base64 16:54 zsoltisawesome !title 16:54 MinetestBot LineTooLong: got more than 65536 bytes when reading header line (file "/usr/lib/python2.7/httplib.py", line 282, in readheaders) 16:54 zsoltisawesome lol 16:55 zsoltisawesome i bet thats the fist time that happened 16:55 zsoltisawesome *first 16:55 reactor I mean, whatever you're into, mate. 16:55 reactor I've known it all along. 16:55 thexyz zsoltisawesome: what's that evil url? 16:55 reactor zsoltisawesome must be the GLaDOS. 16:55 reactor I am not. 16:55 zsoltisawesome its a base64 encoded image 16:56 zsoltisawesome that like ~2000x~3000 px 16:56 zsoltisawesome https://www.filepicker.io/api/file/n9ni4RxVRnWEdy1nEnHo 16:57 zsoltisawesome non base64 version 16:57 thexyz do people find this cute? 16:57 zsoltisawesome yes 16:57 thexyz okay 16:57 reactor I, personally, find pictures of humans more attractive. 16:57 zsoltisawesome i have a question for you, thexyz 16:58 reactor But again, whatever you're into. 16:58 thexyz zsoltisawesome: yes? 16:58 kaeza this is cuter: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100008207/Screenshot%20from%202013-11-11%2012%3A37%3A32.jpg 16:58 kaeza :3 16:58 zsoltisawesome do russian people find this cute? (no offence) 16:58 thexyz kaeza: default theme can't be 16:58 thexyz zsoltisawesome: find what cute? 16:58 thexyz also >jpg 16:59 kaeza thexyz, default theme? 16:59 thexyz > dat clock 16:59 thexyz is it not? 16:59 reactor Winblows. 16:59 kaeza no it isn't 16:59 thexyz > dat frame around dat clock 16:59 kaeza it's "Redmond" theme 16:59 thexyz > icons on desktop 16:59 kaeza is this better? https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100008207/Screenshot%20from%202013-11-16%2023%3A24%3A30.jpg 16:59 zsoltisawesome dem should make a Whisler theme 17:00 thexyz kaeza: disable frame around the clock 17:00 zsoltisawesome lol 17:00 zsoltisawesome thexyz: https://www.filepicker.io/api/file/n9ni4RxVRnWEdy1nEnHo 17:01 thexyz zsoltisawesome: well I can't speak for all russians 17:01 thexyz you can ask me and reactor and proller__ though 17:01 blaaaaargh dis lag 17:01 thexyz I think it looks frightening 17:01 zsoltisawesome lol 17:01 * Jordach buys john_minetest a wacom drawing pad 17:01 zsoltisawesome ooooooh 17:02 zsoltisawesome i want 17:02 proller__ i dislike any japan art 17:02 Jordach john_minetest, i could do better ;) 17:02 zsoltisawesome it aint japanese art 17:02 zsoltisawesome https://www.filepicker.io/api/file/n9ni4RxVRnWEdy1nEnHo 17:02 thexyz meh stop posting that pick 17:03 reactor I dislike Japan stuff, too. 17:03 reactor Nothing personal. 17:03 proller__ except Hayao Miyazaki 17:03 kaeza Clearlooks 17:03 zsoltisawesome lol 17:03 thexyz i too dislike stuff except good stuff 17:03 diemartin I said that two minutes ago ._. 17:04 thexyz also is freenode still borked? 17:04 Hirato lol, someone is self-destructing in sauerbraten's IRC 17:04 zsoltisawesome lolo 17:05 EmmetCooper hey guys just wanna ask if someone here is familiar with perlin noise. cuz i dont. kinda need to learn it 17:05 Jordach Hirato, haven't seen you for a while 17:05 Hirato hi Jordach 17:05 kaeza EmmetCooper, ask paramat 17:06 EmmetCooper paramat? 17:06 Jordach all i've been doing is learning my blender 17:06 Hirato didn'y you used to hang out in #redeclipse with me and the rest of the bros? 17:06 Jordach *ding dong* 17:06 Jordach uhm, wut 17:06 Hirato the cake is done? 17:06 Jordach see said channel 17:06 * Hirato whistles 17:07 Jordach Hirato, no really, i've learned too much blender :P http://i.imgur.com/dUvEgE7.png 17:07 iqualfragile_ Jordach: are there any other drawing pads then wacom? 17:07 reactor Daring? 17:07 diemartin dem fingers 17:07 reactor Darwing* pads? 17:07 Jordach iqualfragile_, can't find anyothers in my local area 17:08 reactor The cake is not a lie. You just have to wait for it a bit longer, alright? 17:08 iqualfragile_ Jordach: like… the internet? 17:08 reactor And do a couple of tests while waiting. 17:08 Jordach iqualfragile_, i don't do internet shopping 17:08 reactor How about Internet snooping? 17:08 iqualfragile_ why? 17:09 Jordach john_minetest, they're about 30 euros from the nearest place where i can get one 17:09 * Jordach would like one as well 17:13 zsoltisawesome anoyone know thw current exchange rate fr eurs to usd 17:13 zsoltisawesome *for 17:13 Jordach just google it 17:14 sfan5 MinetestBot! 17:14 sfan5 not again 17:14 zsoltisawesome 1.37300 17:14 MinetestBot IOError: [Errno socket error] [Errno 110] Connection timed out (file "/usr/lib/python2.7/socket.py", line 571, in create_connection) 17:14 sfan5 wat 17:15 MinetestBot IOError: [Errno socket error] [Errno 110] Connection timed out (file "/usr/lib/python2.7/socket.py", line 571, in create_connection) 17:17 MinetestBot GIT: kahrl commited to minetest/minetest: Don't call curl_global_init twice e275b7099a 2013-12-13T09:08:53-08:00 http://git.io/1aGazw 17:19 zsoltisawesome look what someone did: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SHUT_THE_FUCK_UP 17:20 zsoltisawesome !title 17:20 zsoltisawesome oh right 17:20 zsoltisawesome it dont work right now 17:21 sfan5 oh.. MinetestBot tried to connect to git.io too announce commits 17:22 zsoltisawesome lol 17:22 zsoltisawesome ghit 17:24 zsoltisawesome hey guys 17:24 zsoltisawesome ummm is it possible to copy minetestgame into another repo without forking? 17:25 zsoltisawesome us|0gb: its nice to see you too 17:25 us|0gb Hey, zsoltisawesome! Nice to see you too. 17:25 sfan5 zsoltisawesome: why would you not want to fork? 17:26 zsoltisawesome well, i already have some work done 17:27 zsoltisawesome i wish there was like a webapp to use git 17:27 zsoltisawesome then i could add files and shit 17:27 us|0gb Forking or not, won't copying the minetest_game leave you with a copy that doesn't have your changes? 17:27 OWNSyouAll zsoltisawesome, http://gitlab.org/ 17:28 ifireball hello is it ok to ask question about the gameplay itself here? 17:28 OWNSyouAll Yeah ifireball 17:28 zsoltisawesome damn its blocked 17:28 kaeza ifireball, don't ask to ask, just ask 17:29 kaeza zsoltisawesome, git push https://github.com/example/repo.git 17:29 ifireball ok, I've been playing on Ubuntu, and sme stuff seem not to be like the wiki I was wondering if I have an old version or something, and where can I find release notes that can teel me what to expect 17:29 kaeza replace example with your username and repo.git with your repo name 17:29 OWNSyouAll ifireball, did you just do sudo apt-get install minetest? 17:29 ifireball I can;t seem to be able to make doors for example 17:29 zsoltisawesome and what'll that do 17:29 ifireball OWNSyouAll, yeah 17:30 OWNSyouAll Yeah your on an older version then 17:30 ShadowNinja I wouldn't advi 17:30 us|0gb Yeah, the Ubuntu version is way outdated. 17:30 OWNSyouAll If you want the newer stuff install minetest from a PPA or compile it from source 17:30 ShadowNinja se teasing ShadowBot. She will ban. 17:30 zsoltisawesome hmm, how does one tease a female bot? 17:30 ifireball OWNSyouAll, ohw can I figure out what this version is missing? (Except trying everything...) 17:31 ifireball OWNSyouAll, If I upgrade, will t read my existing world? 17:31 zsoltisawesome yes 17:31 OWNSyouAll It should 17:31 OWNSyouAll See if you can find the version number in the main menu under the about tab 17:31 us|0gb OWNSyouAll: https://launchpad.net/~minetestdevs/+archive/stable 17:31 us|0gb Oops, I mean ifireball: https://launchpad.net/~minetestdevs/+archive/stable 17:32 zsoltisawesome us|0gb: lol 17:32 zsoltisawesome http://5.231.56.127/ 17:32 ifireball OWNSyouAll, I've got c55 0.3.1 (says so in the screen corner) 17:32 ifireball us|0gb, thanks 17:32 zsoltisawesome holy crap 17:32 zsoltisawesome outdated is right 17:32 zsoltisawesome mods wont even run on that 17:33 OWNSyouAll Yeah thats super old no wonder the wiki isn't help you 17:33 zsoltisawesome !title 17:33 MinetestBot zsoltisawesome: No title found 17:33 ifireball well I guess I;d have to upgrade and just corss my fingers and hope it loads the world... 17:33 OWNSyouAll Make a backup of the world first 17:34 ifireball yeah 17:34 zsoltisawesome :( EvergreenTree is gone... 17:34 Hirato oh joy, he's stopped flooding, and now we're feeding the troll, haha 17:34 ifireball tanothere question, I have a mine that keeps filling back up, is that the gave's way of telling me to stop digging down? 17:34 kaeza ifireball, the world loads OK, but new generated areas don't look the same due to changes in map generation 17:35 ifireball game* 17:35 zsoltisawesome well, its a glitch in that version 17:35 ifireball or is that just a "special feature " of this old version? :) 17:35 kaeza that is weird 17:35 zsoltisawesome i alway had blocks disappear and stuff like that 17:35 ifireball funny, well going to upgrade, thanks everyone 17:36 zsoltisawesome then MT 0.4.1 came out, and i'm all "YAY! LESS BLOCK SPAZZING" 17:36 zsoltisawesome cause it still happens every once in a great while 17:38 ifireball is the fact that I always get buried 6 feet under whenever I load the game also a "feature" of this version? (I thought this was funny as hell) 17:38 zsoltisawesome how does one create a new folder using the web interface? 17:38 OWNSyouAll ifireball, oh god i forgot about that yeah that is fixed in newer versions 17:38 zsoltisawesome yeah 17:38 zsoltisawesome that was soooooo annoying 17:38 ifireball OWNSyouAll, too bad that was fun :) 17:39 zsoltisawesome i would keep dieing 17:39 zsoltisawesome i didnt know about j and k 17:39 zsoltisawesome XD 17:39 ifireball I got used to alwas quiting the game while standing on a dirt hill so it will be easy to get out :) 17:41 zsoltisawesome how does one create a new folder using the web interface of github? 17:43 us|0gb zsoltisawesome: I'm not sure you can. 17:43 us|0gb The web interface is ... incomplete. 17:43 zsoltisawesome thats very lame 17:43 us|0gb It is indeed. 17:43 zsoltisawesome i now officaily hate git 17:45 kaeza zsoltisawesome, why? 17:45 ShadowNinja ifireball: What version are you using? IIRC that was fixed very, very long ago. (But some distros *cough*like ubuntu*cough* don't update for years) 17:45 zsoltisawesome its too limited without the git program 17:45 kaeza lol 17:46 zsoltisawesome 0.3.1 17:46 kaeza okay, have fun then 17:46 zsoltisawesome hes using 0.3.1 17:46 zsoltisawesome i would use git only i could find a version that ran on windows 17:47 ShadowNinja ifireball: Well if you're on ubuntu run "sudo apt-add-repository ppa:minetestdevs/stable && sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade" 17:47 ifireball zsoltisawesome, I read somewhere github had such a version (I wouldn't know, don't have Windows....) 17:47 zsoltisawesome and is RunInPlace... 17:47 zsoltisawesome well they do 17:47 zsoltisawesome but you have to install it 17:48 ifireball ShadowBot, yeah, thanks (I kinda know how to use a PPA already...) 17:48 kaeza such invonvenience 17:48 kaeza very wow 17:48 ifireball ShadowNinja , yeah, thanks (I kinda know how to use a PPA already...) 17:48 kaeza inc* 17:48 sfan5 realbadangel_: what's wrong with my bumpmaps? http://i.imgur.com/lRX6yB0.png 17:49 zsoltisawesome kaeza: Please don't be a jerk 17:49 ShadowNinja ifireball: No offense intended. 17:49 ifireball ShadowNinja, none taken 17:50 kaeza zsoltisawesome, alright 17:52 * Jordach just noobed 17:53 Jordach loaded the model in the wrong version of blender 17:53 zsoltisawesome finally 17:53 zsoltisawesome i found a version of git 17:53 zsoltisawesome http://code.google.com/p/msysgit/downloads/detail?name=PortableGit-1.8.4-preview20130916.7z&can=2&q=official+git 18:03 ifireball ShadowNinja, btw, apt-get upgrade wouldn't have worked because the package name in the PPA is different then th one in the distro repo 18:03 kaeza http://cheezburger.com/7952139264 18:04 ShadowNinja ifireball: Hmmm, did they name it minetest-c55? 18:04 zash It's called just 'minetest' in Ubuntu 18:05 zash and Debian, http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=minetest 18:07 ShadowNinja Hmmm, it's named minetestc55 there. PilzAdam: Fix that. :-) 18:07 ifireball hmm... where does 0.4.8 look for the texture packs? does setting in minetest.conf still work? 18:09 PilzAdam ShadowNinja, eh, I better dont mess up the launchpad scripts 18:11 MinetestBot GIT: ShadowNinja commited to minetest/minetest: Remove support for optdepends.txt 83853ccd41 2013-12-13T10:10:24-08:00 http://git.io/fcXnhw 18:18 ifireball bleh... seems like it didn't load the world... gonna have to redo everything... 18:20 zsoltisawesome may have spawned you in diffferent place 18:20 ifireball I don't have any of my items... 18:24 zsoltisawesome oh 18:25 zsoltisawesome you logged in as singleplayer 18:25 ifireball oh, how do i change that? 18:25 zsoltisawesome well, it should be in your saves folder 18:26 zsoltisawesome or what ever 18:26 Jordach Advanced > 18:26 Jordach ifireball, use the advanced tab 18:26 zsoltisawesome that works too 18:26 Jordach with the same name you used for the local world 18:27 ifireball ok... waiting for it to load back (it crashed :( ) 18:27 ifireball I;m not seed and advanced tab 18:28 ifireball not seeing 18:29 ifireball ok it was the server tab that did the trick, lol it buried my house :) 18:29 qwebirc84087 Hi all 18:29 Jordach ifireball, there is a newer mapgen 18:30 qwebirc84087 cool nick I got uh? 18:30 Jordach the server WILL create new chunks with the new mapgen 18:30 Jordach including restoring the already dug caves 18:31 Megaf what? 18:32 Megaf My computer have his own will 18:37 ifireball this version crashes a lot :( 18:37 Issa2013 Calinou, 18:41 thexyz what's the most bloated server? with mods and textures that take ages to load 18:41 Jordach vanessa's survival world 18:41 Jordach it crashed freeminer droid 18:41 zsoltisawesome lol 18:42 thexyz VanessaE: where can I download your vanessae_game? 18:42 specing What do the following parameters mean: 18:42 specing clust_scarcity = 15*15*15, 18:42 specing clust_num_ores = 4, 18:42 specing clust_size = 3 18:42 Jordach specing, careful 18:43 Jordach i can *HEAR* ShadowBot ticking 18:43 zsoltisawesome LOL 18:43 zsoltisawesome you amuse me 18:44 Jordach if you make lots of lines at once, ShadowBot will kick you, repeat offenders will get banned from the channel 18:46 Jordach *** pomfpomfpomf18 joined the game <- thexyz, this being you? 18:47 rubenwardy Hi all 18:47 rubenwardy ha 18:47 rubenwardy C++ time! 18:47 kaeza lol C++ 18:47 thexyz wow, that's some bloat indeed 18:47 thexyz Jordach: yes 18:47 thexyz oh, but it uses remote_media 18:48 Calinou I thought she refused to use remote_media 18:48 rubenwardy kaeza: lol meaning C++ is bad, or C++ is complicated? 18:48 thexyz the cdn only has about 1/3 of her files 18:49 kaeza rubenwardy, I prefer either C or Java 18:49 rubenwardy But C is apparently not OOP 18:49 kaeza OOP is doable in C 18:50 kaeza even inheritance and stuff like that 18:50 kaeza see Gtk+ 18:50 thexyz what a lagfest 18:51 Jordach also http://i.imgur.com/6J1vefx.png 18:52 Jordach sort of solved the thumb mystery 18:52 thexyz oh wow who has done that with this poor guy 18:59 Jordach thexyz, readied for creating animations for the interwebz 18:59 rubenwardy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-8Z4k7E8Pg&list=UUggccVQxXZFny58cconVANA ???? 19:00 PilzAdam Jordach, pixel error at the head 19:00 Jordach PilzAdam, blender's internal does that along cube edges for some reason 19:02 Jordach i also make pavel's model look like last century ;) 19:11 rubenwardy Bloody amazing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3bGYljQ5Uw 19:11 Jordach rubenwardy, test me: http://www.mediafire.com/download/w3p7bk0ljtmrrs9/TemplateMale.blend 19:11 Jordach you will need the latest stable however.. 19:12 rubenwardy Sorry, I dont have blender atm 19:12 rubenwardy Bookmarked, though 19:22 Jordach the more people who experiment, the better 19:36 Jordach btw, dual male and female experiment incoming :O 19:46 Jordach WOW. 19:46 Jordach two models really bump up the render time... 19:47 Jordach and my experimental reflections work :D 19:48 thexyz look at sfan5 saving minetest http://i.imgur.com/W3Vo3K4.png 19:49 thexyz from the collapse 19:49 thexyz because of bugs 19:49 Jordach lol 19:52 Jordach btw, i might make entire renders based off of IRC antics 19:54 rubenwardy Seriously? 19:54 rubenwardy You have nothing better to do? 19:55 thexyz IRC antics? 19:55 PilzAdam Jordach, https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=121930#p121930 you say that you need people to find bugs, but then you say if they find bugs they are using the wrong blender version.... 19:55 Jordach rubenwardy, i want to keep testing my models upto their breaking point 19:55 Jordach PilzAdam, i built it within 2.69 19:56 Jordach with 2.69 specific features 19:57 rubenwardy ah ok 20:05 thexyz I remember there being a topic where people drew some GUI for android minetest, can someone point me at it? 20:07 zsoltisawesome hey, what is everyones FPS while running Minetest? 20:07 Jordach 30-40 with full shaders 20:07 Hirato 30-40 irrespective of shaders ^^ 20:08 zsoltisawesome i run at about 20-30 with shaders 20:08 Miner_48er zsoltisawesome any mods? 20:08 zsoltisawesome nope 20:08 rubenwardy http://ubuntuone.com/7BuxzGhX4wDjvcitMV62Kz 20:08 rubenwardy (screenshot of new nodebox editor 20:08 thexyz or was I wrong? 20:08 rubenwardy ) 20:08 zsoltisawesome exept core modifations on like the apple and stuff 20:08 thexyz someone should make formspec editor 20:09 rubenwardy kaeza ^ 20:09 rubenwardy He made one 20:09 rubenwardy (python, tkinter) 20:09 rubenwardy See github 20:09 rubenwardy gtg 20:09 kaeza yes, but it's far from finished 20:09 zsoltisawesome guys, i tried to go to the website 20:09 Jordach i am dissapoint 20:10 zsoltisawesome and it wont let me 20:10 Jordach rubenwardy is using windows 20:10 Jordach zsoltisawesome, your filter remember 20:10 kaeza https://github.com/kaeza/minetest-fsd 20:10 kaeza thexyz, ^ 20:10 zsoltisawesome no 20:10 zsoltisawesome it says: 20:10 zsoltisawesome SSL Not Enabled 20:10 zsoltisawesome This site is not enabled for SSL. Please follow this link to visit the site without SSL. 20:10 kaeza https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100008207/Screenshot%20from%202013-11-12%2014%3A21%3A25.png 20:11 * Jordach thinks MITM might be around 20:11 kaeza also this: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100008207/Screenshot%20from%202013-11-12%2016%3A08%3A39.png 20:12 zsoltisawesome nice 20:12 thexyz how up-to-date is it? 20:15 kaeza not very 20:15 zsoltisawesome (< . . . . . 20:15 zsoltisawesome ^ supposed to be pacman 20:15 kaeza ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) 20:16 zsoltisawesome :O 20:16 zsoltisawesome i envy you 20:17 Jordach done 20:17 Jordach https://gist.github.com/Jordach/97fb16478562c60c10b3 20:18 Megaf_ Hi all 20:18 Jordach ASCII art is another one of the things i can do 20:18 Megaf_ Hi Jordach kaeza 20:18 kaeza hey 20:18 zsoltisawesome nice 20:19 Megaf_ what do you think is better? megaf.co.vu or minetest.megaf.info? 20:19 zsoltisawesome latter one 20:20 Pilcrow VanessaE 20:22 Pilcrow I made a pull request for homedecor on github. fixes a very minor issue. this is my first github usage, so let me know if I've done something wrong~ :P 20:31 zsoltisawesome what the derp 20:32 kaeza Pilcrow, merged 20:35 thexyz sfan5: http://i.imgur.com/ZXbTfmH.png showing off 20:39 thexyz it doesn't crash anymore I just forgot to remove this part 20:41 kaeza d'awwww https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=121940#p121940 20:51 * Jordach has that fluffy feeling again 20:52 Pilcrow thanks kaeza. it wasn't much of a change, but certain mods (including one I was working on) didn't like having a nil itemstack in on_rightclick. ;) 20:53 kaeza Pilcrow, no, thank you for spotting that bug :P 20:54 zsoltisawesome YAY he squashed a bug! 21:02 zsoltisawesome Jordach: I like your TV mod, I think i will include it in Moontest 21:02 Jordach zsoltisawesome, for fuck sakes, VanessaE beat me to that 21:02 Jordach mine is abm based. hers is node animation 21:03 zsoltisawesome hmm 21:03 zsoltisawesome i'll try it 21:04 kaeza speaking of that, homedecor needs to be split into submods 21:04 zsoltisawesome is it in homedecor? 21:04 thexyz > being mean 21:04 zsoltisawesome screw it then 21:04 thexyz > calling that sarcasm 21:05 thardin nobody likes sarcasm 21:06 zsoltisawesome ./ignore thardin 21:06 * zsoltisawesome has hated on thardin 21:08 zsoltisawesome where is said tv defined? 21:08 zsoltisawesome lol 21:09 Jordach 10 print "FUCK" 20 goto 10 21:09 Jordach https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=121944#p121944 21:10 thexyz talk about shitty community 21:10 Jordach thexyz, nobody likes his "spamming" 21:10 Jordach it's literally things that are like missing a = from an if statement 21:11 Jordach such idiot, much lols 21:11 Jordach >Gmail, *checks mail*, rubenwardy has subscribed to you on YouTube 21:11 PilzAdam hows Moontest doing? 21:16 thexyz `10 print "FUCK" 20 goto 10` is spamming 21:16 zsoltisawesome its slowly coming along 21:16 Jordach thexyz, he has not made anything really constructive :P 21:17 zsoltisawesome I finally got some git tration 21:17 zsoltisawesome *traction 21:17 Jordach wot 21:17 Jordach woot 21:17 Jordach made automatic hat cubicness (just cutout the uv where it's black and there you go!) 21:18 zsoltisawesome http://www.github.com/lordcirth/moontest 21:19 Jordach nononononononononono 21:19 Jordach bad 21:19 Jordach no roblox 21:19 zsoltisawesome lol 21:19 PilzAdam zsoltisawesome, do you have fun breaking the law? 21:19 zsoltisawesome thats my gravatar from way back 21:20 Jordach if i wanted lego i'd go buy a box of lego :P 21:20 zsoltisawesome how am i breaking the law? 21:20 PilzAdam you cant distribute LGPL code as GPL 21:20 zsoltisawesome oops 21:20 PilzAdam same goes for CC BY-SA media 21:20 zsoltisawesome what version? 21:21 zsoltisawesome btw im not the one that did that 21:21 PilzAdam sure, its always that other guy 21:23 zsoltisawesome what, neither of us read the readme... 21:23 zsoltisawesome XD 21:23 zsoltisawesome that jsut sounds lam 21:23 zsoltisawesome e 21:24 zsoltisawesome fixing... 21:25 markveidemanis Hi 21:25 zsoltisawesome hi 21:26 Pilcrow kaeza, there is another bug but I can't seem to find its code. default:fence_wood is apparently re-defined somewhere in homedecor, but the added on_place code doesn't check to see if a right-clicked node has on_rightclick. meaning you can't open doors while holding a fence. 21:27 kaeza hmm 21:27 kaeza Pilcrow, everything sign-related is in signslib.lua 21:27 kaeza err signs_lib.lua 21:29 kaeza Pilcrow, here https://github.com/VanessaE/homedecor/blob/master/signs_lib.lua#L384 21:29 markveidemanis I bought one of them quadcopters on ebay 21:30 markveidemanis waiting for it to charge not 21:30 markveidemanis *now 21:30 markveidemanis Is it right to fully charge it before first use? 21:30 markveidemanis Its a LiPo i think 21:30 Pilcrow actually, never mind that. I just realized the homedecor I have been using is quite outdated. I'll try updating and see if the bug is still present... 21:30 PilzAdam I bought an offtopic script, it gets you kicked in many IRC channels! 21:30 zsoltisawesome PilzAdam: umm do i need to include this line: Copyright (C) 2010-2012 celeron55, Perttu Ahola 21:31 PilzAdam zsoltisawesome, of course you have to 21:31 markveidemanis http://marktest.co.uk/2013/12/manipulative-tag-cipher/ Another invention 21:31 thexyz PilzAdam: wat wat wat 21:31 markveidemanis Second one is much more relevant... 21:31 thexyz what's this nonsense 21:31 thexyz it's fine to distribute LGPL'd thing as GPL 21:32 zsoltisawesome erm 21:32 zsoltisawesome GET IT RIGHT! you guys are stressing me out 21:32 thexyz well, I'm not too sure what was the problem 21:33 zsoltisawesome well: https://github.com/lordcirth/moontest 21:33 thexyz (the original code is of course LGPL, the modified version is GPL, everything's fine) 21:33 zsoltisawesome but what about the CC BY-SA 3.0 shit 21:34 thexyz what about it? 21:34 zsoltisawesome I'm going to retexture everything anyway... 21:34 zsoltisawesome do i have to include? 21:34 thexyz include what? 21:34 thexyz oh well just copy all licenses and paste your things on the top 21:35 zsoltisawesome can i say this? "Some content is under the Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported (CC BY-SA 3.0) licence 21:35 zsoltisawesome http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/" 21:36 PilzAdam you have to define what "Some content" means 21:37 zsoltisawesome :| 21:37 zsoltisawesome that was a vague IRC paste 21:37 PilzAdam you could as well just delete all the default images sounds and models and do your own stuff 21:37 zsoltisawesome THATS WHAT IM GOONA DO! 21:37 zsoltisawesome OMFG 21:38 PilzAdam as long as the repo contains CC BY-SA media you have to share these files as CC BY-SA 21:38 PilzAdam (I would recommend to write games completly from scratch and not base on mintest_game, btw) 21:38 zsoltisawesome how the hell would i know the directory structure? 21:38 zsoltisawesome ... 21:39 Pilcrow lol, never mind kaeza. that bug seems to have been fixed for quite a while. silly me, forgetting to update... :P 21:39 zsoltisawesome lo 21:39 PilzAdam john_minetest, not really 21:39 zsoltisawesome i have made some very basic nodes 21:40 kaeza PilzAdam, no probs 21:40 zsoltisawesome that i havent included yet 21:40 kaeza err Pilcrow 21:41 zsoltisawesome can images and stuff be under GPL? 21:41 PilzAdam how the hell would i know the directory structure? <- what exactly do you mean by that? 21:41 thexyz zsoltisawesome: you love open source and licenses and stuff now? 21:41 zsoltisawesome its like mods/shit/textures 21:42 zsoltisawesome Yes, yes I do. 21:43 zsoltisawesome especially crap thats under multiple licences 21:43 Pilcrow kaeza: what? 21:43 * Pilcrow tries his best to look innocent... 21:44 * zsoltisawesome becomes very infuriated 21:44 kaeza Pilcrow, no probs (failed tab completion pinged Pilz Adam) 21:44 PilzAdam ... and you pinged me again 21:44 zsoltisawesome lol 21:45 zsoltisawesome lol 21:45 GingerJesus How's that? :P 21:45 kaeza PilzAdam, so Pilz pings you? 21:45 kaeza :P 21:45 PilzAdam but I also get pinged when someone rants about PulseAudio, so nevermind 21:45 kaeza lol k 21:46 PilzAdam try, set a highlight for "PA" and youll get pinged every day 21:46 * GingerJesus actually DOES look like a ginger Jesus... :P 21:46 PilzAdam +it 21:47 PilzAdam john_minetest, which one? 21:48 zsoltisawesome lol, i believe hewas being sarcastic 21:48 PilzAdam move it to offtopic then 21:48 GingerJesus lol, I just realized you can open a query with yourself on IRC... 21:48 kaeza "it is annoying but it's smart." 21:48 PilzAdam but I dont see why we should delete topics that dont match what we think about the community 21:49 PilzAdam > it 21:49 kaeza you are a thing now! 21:49 PilzAdam yay 21:49 thexyz i think this deserves a quote >Can somebody delete the "mt sucks" thread? >which one? 21:50 zsoltisawesome lol 21:50 GingerJesus lol @thexyz 21:51 PilzAdam lold @@ 21:51 PilzAdam (i.e. lold at the @ sign) 21:51 Pilcrow lol 21:51 PilzAdam this isnt twitter 21:51 zsoltisawesome Pilcrow: twitter mush 21:51 zsoltisawesome *much 21:51 Pilcrow I don't even use twitter, isn't that sad...? :P 21:51 zsoltisawesome lol 21:52 zsoltisawesome #what 21:52 zsoltisawesome lol 21:52 PilzAdam twitter is a game, the more hashtags you get in your post the better 21:52 PilzAdam john_minetest, ++ 21:52 Pilcrow no one uses google+ 21:53 zsoltisawesome i do 21:53 zsoltisawesome XD 21:53 zsoltisawesome i guess im no one 21:53 zsoltisawesome :# 21:53 zsoltisawesome *:3 21:53 Pilcrow lol 21:54 zsoltisawesome #lol#lol 21:54 Pilcrow does anybody still call the # symbol a 'pound sign'? 21:54 PilzAdam retweet: @PilzAdam, #no, #this #hashtag #thing #is #pure #fantasy . #nobody #on #twitter #uses #them . 21:54 zsoltisawesome yes 21:54 zsoltisawesome I WILL # YOU 21:54 Pilcrow lol 21:54 Pilcrow always hated the term 'hashtag' 21:54 Taoki VanessaE: Does your server use the new media fetching code? A GIT commit seems to state that media fetching is improved. Wanted to see if I notice any difference 21:55 Taoki It talks about the client, but I assume server is affected too 21:55 PilzAdam in germany its called doppelkreuz (double cross) 21:55 Taoki To support the changes 21:55 zsoltisawesome could be read as: I WILL HASHTAG YOU or I WILL POUND YOU 21:56 Jordach £ is the pound sign you farkin returds 21:56 zsoltisawesome latter is proper, first is funnier 21:56 Taoki VanessaE: Also, something is slowing your server down badly. The world isn't even loading any more after I log in, just the chunk in that area. It takes over a minute for the next chunk to load 21:56 PilzAdam Taoki, isnt that normal on VanessaE's server(s)? 21:56 zsoltisawesome Taoki: PM much? 21:57 zsoltisawesome john_minetest: PM much? 21:57 Taoki PilzAdam: She does have a lot of mods. Still, they shouldn't be that slow. If they are something is wrong with one 21:57 zsoltisawesome just saying... 21:57 Taoki zsoltisawesome: Why you ask? 21:57 * Jordach thinks Lua got stuck in a loop 21:58 * zsoltisawesome thinks that Jordach should be put in a loop 21:58 Jordach zsoltisawesome, try moving your conscience into 2gb of ram 21:58 kaeza hashtags? but they are channels! 21:59 kaeza /join #yolo 21:59 * john_minetest thinks that zsoltisawesome should paint a moebius band red on the one side and green on the other one. 21:59 Jordach john_minetest, i fucking hate those 21:59 Pilcrow Jordach, I always thought # is the symbol for 'pound' as a unit of weight. not money. that's obviously £... 21:59 * zsoltisawesome is not an American 21:59 kaeza >fucking 21:59 Jordach moebius bands are bullshit 21:59 * zsoltisawesome knows about the Moebius band 22:00 zsoltisawesome they work 22:00 PilzAdam Pilcrow, weight is measured in kg 22:00 * Jordach drops the bass on sfan5 22:00 PilzAdam why would you even think about using a unit that isnt a base 10 variant of SI? 22:01 Jordach Sieverts 22:01 zsoltisawesome SIlly 22:01 Jordach there's the future ;) 22:01 * Jordach prefers SI Units 22:01 Jordach i hate the pounds and ounces systems 22:01 * zsoltisawesome prefers orange juice 22:01 Jordach but i oddly understand Miles Per Hour 22:02 PilzAdam its not a matter of preference, its a matter of sanity 22:02 Pilcrow PilzAdam: kg is more sensible, yes, but not so common over here... ;) 22:02 Taoki Also: Does anyone know why if I compile Minetest with Irrlicht 1.8, the 3D viewport shrinks to the bottom-left area of the screen? I need to resize the window to get rid of that and have it fill the window again. 22:02 zsoltisawesome john_minetest: #why 22:02 Taoki Only with 1.8, doesn't happen with Irrlicht 1.7 22:02 Taoki And this existed for many months, over an year I believe 22:03 zsoltisawesome sadly i dont have one of those XD 22:03 zsoltisawesome us|0gb: why are you sitting there like a plump peach? 22:04 us|0gb Hmm? I'm doing homework, It's easier if I'm sitting. 22:05 Pilcrow john_minetest: not really. elevator weight limits are never posted in kg here, nor are trailer limits if you're a trucker like my dad... 22:05 us|0gb I also have an external hard drive connected, it might fall out if I stand. 22:05 kaeza john_minetest, player_setfov 22:05 PilzAdam Pilcrow, define "here" 22:05 PilzAdam us|0gb, what homework? 22:05 Pilcrow Wisconsin, USA. 22:06 us|0gb PilzAdam: Several things, but the one I'm working on now is a resume cover letter. 22:06 kaeza john_minetest, https://github.com/kaeza/mt-firearms/blob/master/firearmslib/util/player_setfov.patch 22:06 zsoltisawesome PilzAdam: us|0gb: probably math 22:06 zsoltisawesome lol 22:07 us|0gb zsoltisawesome: I'd be done if this was math. I do have a calculator. 22:07 zsoltisawesome Taoki: NOBODY CARES 22:07 zsoltisawesome us|0gb: LOL 22:07 Taoki zsoltisawesome: huh? 22:07 Taoki About what? 22:07 zsoltisawesome Taoki 22:07 zsoltisawesome Also: Does anyone know why if I compile Minetest with Irrlicht 1.8, the 3D viewport shrinks to the bottom-left area of the screen? I need to resize the window to get rid of that and have it fill the window again. 22:08 kahrl what kind of calculator does math homework? 22:08 Taoki zsoltisawesome: It's a bug. People should care. Though it's not urgent otherwise 22:08 kaeza john_minetest, git am player_setfov.patch 22:08 zsoltisawesome a trig calculator? 22:08 PilzAdam john_minetest, git apply mypatch.patch 22:08 * Jordach notices the german to the rest of the world ratio in the minetest community is too damn high 22:09 PilzAdam Jordach, it tends against 1 22:09 * Jordach is considering something 22:09 kahrl the math homework we do around here is of the kind "prove that the function blah is in C^\infty but not in the sobolev space H^1" 22:09 kaeza john_minetest, I've asked around in #-dev, but nobody responded 22:09 kahrl I'd love a calculator that can do that :D 22:09 * zsoltisawesome thinks that Minetest is a pain in the butt to use with no textures 22:10 kaeza well, sapier said he had no comments on that one 22:10 kahrl err s/C^\infty/C^0 22:10 zsoltisawesome whats C? XD 22:10 thexyz meanwhile buildcraft has got over 50k installs 22:11 PilzAdam zsoltisawesome, complex numbers I guess 22:11 zsoltisawesome the water molicules in the sea? 22:11 kahrl zsoltisawesome: the space of continuous function 22:11 Jordach anyways, i'm going to create a massive texture atlas so that making textured blocks in blender is piss easy 22:11 kahrl functions* 22:11 thexyz waiting for 1e6+ 22:11 zsoltisawesome wahts buildcraft 22:11 thexyz shit shit shit 22:12 zsoltisawesome does anyone have a GPL'd texture pack 22:12 * sfan5 puts a kitten on Jordach's head 22:12 Jordach meow 22:12 Jordach sfan5, seen the PM yet? 22:12 * zsoltisawesome shoots the kitten with a shotgun 22:12 zsoltisawesome *flutteryay* 22:12 Jordach -!- System: Ark Shielding at 26% 22:13 zsoltisawesome LOL 22:13 * sfan5 puts Derpy Hooves on Jordach's head 22:13 Jordach Jordach:dentonate_reactor() 22:13 * zsoltisawesome takes Derpy Hooves and puts it on his head 22:13 PilzAdam zsoltisawesome, *brohoof* 22:14 * Pilcrow shoots Derpy Hooves with a shotgun 22:14 us|0gb kahrl: It depends on what type of math homework. 22:14 * zsoltisawesome defends 22:14 Pilcrow lol 22:14 * Pilcrow hates mlp 22:14 * zsoltisawesome throws a Parasprite at Pilcrow 22:15 * zsoltisawesome hates Haters 22:15 Taoki Ponies FTW 22:15 zsoltisawesome wiat wait wait 22:15 zsoltisawesome +1 22:16 zsoltisawesome if i hate haters, arent I a hater? 22:16 zsoltisawesome which would mean that i hate myself, which i dont 22:16 Jordach by that logic politicians are haters ;) 22:16 * Pilcrow wonders why we are role-playing instead of carrying a normal conversation... 22:16 * Taoki reaaaaally needs to make a MLP game for Minetest. And will :) Someday... 22:16 zsoltisawesome ooooooh 22:16 zsoltisawesome I'll help 22:16 zsoltisawesome XD 22:17 * zsoltisawesome thinks Jordach is 100% correct 22:17 zsoltisawesome XD 22:18 * zsoltisawesome assult cake anyone? 22:18 Pilcrow zsoltisawesome: Schrödinger's hatred. you both hate and do not hate yourself. 22:18 zsoltisawesome LOL 22:18 zsoltisawesome lol 22:19 * zsoltisawesome thinks he should throw an assault cake at Pilcrow 22:19 Pilcrow also, the following statement is the truth: the previous statement is a lie. 22:20 zsoltisawesome LOL 22:20 zsoltisawesome get it right 22:20 zsoltisawesome XD 22:20 PilzAdam Pilcrow, be careful or youll break MinetestBot 22:20 * kaeza hands PilzAdam an apostrophe 22:21 zsoltisawesome !rainbow SPAWWWWWRRRRCLES!!!!! 22:21 MinetestBot 11S2P12A9W10W12W9W10W12R9R12R12R6C2L7E9S11!13!3!4!9! 22:21 * PilzAdam eats it 22:21 * zsoltisawesome eats it first 22:21 Pilcrow PilzAdam: daww, you mean MinetestBot can't handle a paradox yet? :P 22:22 zsoltisawesome can someone make a texture that says nil? 22:22 zsoltisawesome nm 22:23 MinetestBot 11- 22:23 Pilcrow zsoltisawesome: use paint? :P 22:23 zsoltisawesome umm 22:23 zsoltisawesome paint is stupic and cant type that small and uses antialiasing 22:23 xiong Does anyone here want to talk about the running of a Minetest world? I don't mean the technical details but the social decisions. 22:24 PilzAdam xiong, I guess if you start somebody will join the discussion 22:24 thexyz kids. 22:25 xiong PilzAdam, I'm not trying to start a fight. The last time I talked about that topic with you, you became extremely upset. 22:26 PilzAdam oh, you are the one who wants players to pay for servers? 22:26 thexyz what do you mean by "social decisions"? 22:26 xiong Nor is it clear to me that this is on-topic for this channel, which is rather devoted to technical matters. 22:26 PilzAdam sorry, didnt remember you 22:26 zsoltisawesome hmm, what mods should i remove from moontest.... 22:27 zsoltisawesome oooooh i know 22:27 xiong thexyz, that's the first question. What *do* we mean by social decisions? What social decisions should we consider? 22:27 zsoltisawesome farming! 22:27 thexyz xiong: well, you wanted to talk about it 22:27 thexyz so I thought you already know what you're going to talk about 22:27 xiong Indeed. I spend a lot of time thinking about it. I'd like to know what others think. Talking to myself is boring and does not illuminate. 22:28 thexyz to me it feels that the community is too young 22:28 xiong I deny the existence of a single community. 22:28 thexyz forums and most public servers 22:28 thexyz people there are, what, 12? 22:28 thexyz just judging by those google play comments 22:29 zsoltisawesome damn, what is the character.x under? 22:29 thexyz it seems that minecraft-like games attract audience like this 22:29 PilzAdam zsoltisawesome, cc by-sa 22:29 xiong As I say, it's not clear to me that this topic is on-topic for this channel; it's the opposite of a technical discussion. It *is* on topic for #athens. I'm happy to talk here, of course, but if anyone raises an objection, we'll talk elsewhere. 22:29 thexyz this is not a technical channel, all minetest-related discussions are welcome here 22:29 zsoltisawesome PilzAdam: Damn you 22:30 xiong I'm in my 50's, thexyz. How old are you -- in rough terms? 22:30 Pilcrow zsoltisawesome: so do you still need a 'nil' texture? 22:30 zsoltisawesome no 22:30 zsoltisawesome it is to much of a hastle 22:30 thexyz xiong: ~2/5 22:31 xiong You're mocking me. Why? 22:31 thexyz xiong: I do? I didn't want to offend, sorry 22:31 xiong On teh internets, nobody knows you're a dog. You raised the issue of age. 22:31 xiong If you are five years old then I am a striped tiger. 22:32 Pilcrow zsoltisawesome: daww, ok then. I was going to throw one together for ya~ 22:32 PilzAdam I guess he meant 2/5 * your age 22:32 thexyz xiong: ~2/5 of your age; anyway what I was talking about is not the physical age and you know it 22:32 thexyz (or not) 22:32 zsoltisawesome you could help me with some real textures though 22:32 xiong Well no, sorry, I don't. We'll say you're in your 20s. When I was in my 20s, I thought hard about social issues. 22:32 zsoltisawesome lol 22:33 xiong If my opinions at that age were aired now, I'd have to apologize for them. But that's a side issue. 22:33 thexyz alright then 22:34 thexyz I guess we're slowly becoming personal or what? 22:34 xiong No, not at all. You mentioned age, I followed. 22:34 xiong My key postulate is that when we play in a simulated world we are nonetheless real human beings. We form a society in that world. I think we don't talk much about what that means. 22:35 xiong We make assumptions without discussing them and then argue about propositions built on those undiscussed assumptions. 22:35 thexyz and my point is that it's impossible to build a healthy community with lots of immature people 22:35 xiong Well, that may be true. 22:36 xiong I'm not ready to dismiss you, though, as an immature person incapable of building a community. 22:36 PandemoniuM Ok, so on this topic. Pirates vs Skeletons in an intergalactic space battle. who would win? go. 22:37 Pilcrow lol PandemoniuM 22:37 xiong Let's say that the norm for human society over the past million years or so has been a nomadic, uncivilized existence. Then all civilization is exceptional and the product of the few, not of the many. 22:37 PandemoniuM :] 22:37 xiong Good point, John. 22:38 PilzAdam you cant "build" a community, you can just let it grow 22:38 xiong Who decides what goal, or who may contribute, or what constitutes a contribution and not an annoyance? 22:38 thexyz after reading the comments http://i.imgur.com/dmmqqor.png I don't feel like coding for those people 22:38 PandemoniuM the top portion of the community, xiong 22:38 PandemoniuM founders, key contributers, etc 22:39 xiong Very well -- the elite. 22:39 PandemoniuM people of importance that have gained their status in the community by contributions, coding or even culture 22:39 PandemoniuM no, the elite is not what im saying 22:39 PandemoniuM because you cant just become elite 22:39 xiong Nobody codes in a Minetest world. You play blocks. 22:39 zsoltisawesome you play them? like guitars? 22:39 zsoltisawesome lol 22:39 PandemoniuM guess we are talking about to diff things, because im a developer. 22:39 thexyz coding minetest is the next level of playing the game 22:40 xiong Right. This discussion has nothing to do with developing. 22:40 PandemoniuM ffs *two 22:40 xiong Sorry, not to me, John. 22:40 PandemoniuM yep, i just got off work and walked into this mess 22:40 xiong I consider a given Minetest world, at this level of discussion, to be independent, a bubble, if you will. 22:40 PandemoniuM shun me from the community for my insolence :] 22:41 xiong Whoever controls access to the server has absolute power to create and destroy the world. 22:41 xiong No no, not at all, PandemoniuM. 22:41 xiong Absolutely. Vote with your feet. 22:41 xiong Nevertheless, it's more or less impossible for anyone to exert power over a servop. 22:41 * john_minetest imagines how it would look like when people would vote with their feet in parlament. 22:42 PandemoniuM servop is god essentially 22:42 PandemoniuM notice the lower case g :] 22:42 xiong Well, you got to that conclusion a lot faster than I did. Took me some time. 22:42 zsoltisawesome lol 22:42 zsoltisawesome indeed 22:43 PandemoniuM but it would be great if servers operated 'agnostically' 22:43 xiong I have been describing the common situation of a single servop as despotism or monarchy: a political concept, not a religious one. But I now think you are more correct. 22:43 PandemoniuM servops were on the same level as any other player, and status/power is gained from town/city development 22:43 PilzAdam I agree that developing is the next level of playing the game 22:43 xiong The servop is the local god; if you have multiple servops, you have gods. 22:43 PandemoniuM but there shouldnt be gods, imho 22:44 PandemoniuM except for griefers, etc. taking out the trash 22:44 thexyz they have absolute power; the way they could use it is another question 22:44 xiong Ah. Very interesting point. And I'll agree to that, too. If I had a choice, I would prefer to live in a world without gods. 22:44 xiong However -- no matter what we think is true of Reality -- it's very clear that no Minetest world is ever going to be created without a local god doing so. 22:45 zsoltisawesome PilzAdam: https://www.filepicker.io/api/file/BRI5L5wQQKe1aHjSCpCX happy? 22:45 xiong I object strenuously to the term "griefer"; it begs not one but many questions. 22:45 PandemoniuM whys that. one who causes grief by ruining immersion = griefer 22:46 xiong You just suggested roles for the local god, PandemoniuM; and it's this that I'm questioning. What should the local god do? 22:46 PilzAdam xiong, what experience do you have in "building" a community? 22:46 PandemoniuM local god listens to prayers :D 22:46 xiong I think you and I both just said that we'd prefer not to have a god. Isn't the next best thing a god who does nothing? 22:46 PandemoniuM he is everywhere at any given time so TP and Invis, never revealed 22:47 PandemoniuM if someone on the server became a hitler, and was systematically farming and killing other players, i would want the god to smite them and ban them 22:47 xiong PilzAdam, I just said I don't want to fight; I mean that. I understand that you don't like the whole idea. I have offered to take the discussion elsewhere. 22:47 PandemoniuM but i wouldnt want him showering diamonds onto random people 22:47 xiong Why, John? I'd like to know. 22:47 PilzAdam xiong, this wasnt meant as an "attack" against you, Im really curious 22:48 PandemoniuM i have also been the griefer on those very servers john lol 22:48 xiong In a world where nobody knows you're a dog, you want me to show you my credentials? I have labored in the vineyards. I don't say I did well. I have a lot of experience in petty club-size politics. 22:49 PandemoniuM there are people who play the game to interact, build in-game relationships, and accomplish things together to create immersion, and then theres the kids who only try to anger/piss off others to ruin immersion... then its just a hunk of pixels. 22:50 xiong PandemoniuM, what would you say if I told you that I envision a server on which it would not be possible for anyone to call you, or anyone else, a "griefer"? Yet, one in which players who desired it could build in security. 22:50 PilzAdam xiong, what might be a challenge is to do the step from theory to practice; i.e. an actual community growing in the way you imagine 22:51 xiong It's not a merely theoretical discussion, PA. The testing server has already been up and running. 22:51 PandemoniuM if i came over and blew up your building that you spent a week on, would you be mad? would i be griefing you? 22:51 PandemoniuM or is that the game 22:51 PandemoniuM you kick rocks and start over, only to waste more time until you finally become a griefer 22:51 xiong Well, that's the question. What is the right way to view that? I build, you destroy. Why is that a problem? I don't say it's not; I say, in what way? 22:51 PilzAdam xiong, if you have an idea of how the community should look like, how do you want to get the players act accordingly? 22:51 xiong Should the god destroy you? 22:51 PandemoniuM who are you to censor my creation? 22:52 PandemoniuM if my neighbor wrongs me, i would pray to god that he gets smited 22:52 xiong That's the discussion, PA. Is it the god's responsibility to decide what is and is not correct action? 22:52 PandemoniuM then boom... comet flies across the sky 22:52 xiong Ah, but did we not recently agree that we'd prefer *not* to have gods? 22:53 PandemoniuM gods =/= players 22:53 xiong That's the crux of my thinking right now. Should gods meddle in the affairs of men? In Reality, I do not hesitate to say NO. 22:53 xiong I'm wondering why this should not carry over to Minetest. 22:53 thexyz in reality we don't need gods, in minetest we do 22:53 xiong Why? 22:53 PandemoniuM but as a god, it depends on why i created this world 22:53 PandemoniuM if i was a war god, then chaos rules 22:53 thexyz because of how the game is made: it's easier to destroy than to build 22:53 PandemoniuM if i was an animal god, hunting animals would not be allowed 22:53 PandemoniuM etc 22:54 PilzAdam xiong, yes, the god has to set "rules" to form the basic structures of the community 22:54 xiong Ah. But cannot the world be built in another way, then, to make destruction more difficult? By the way, I'm not convinced you're right about this. 22:54 xiong I'm not convinced of that, PA. 22:54 PilzAdam nobody else has enough "power" over the players to do that, and without it the community wouldnt become what you want 22:54 thexyz in the reality people control themselves 22:54 xiong Then why not in the game? 22:55 PandemoniuM because its not real life, i cant go to jail for blowing up your car 22:55 thexyz because it's a game 22:55 thexyz and that 22:55 PandemoniuM i can laugh about it and call you a fag, like the typical griefer 22:55 xiong I don't see how that matters. 22:55 PilzAdam people dont feel responsible for their actions in games 22:55 PandemoniuM thats grief-speak btw 22:55 thexyz and this 22:55 thexyz no responsibility 22:56 xiong Okay. I'm not sure that most people are particularly responsible in Real Life, either. That's why we have cops. 22:56 PandemoniuM LOL GTA. case and point 22:56 PilzAdam in real life people are _a lot_ more responsible 22:56 PilzAdam if they wouldnt be, they would simply die 22:56 PilzAdam and dying is against the human nature 22:56 PilzAdam while "dying" in games isnt that much of a deal 22:57 xiong May I mention one example, without going into detail or pretending it's a total solution? On several worlds, now, including the recent testing server, I moved about a kilometer or two from primary spawn and built large establishments. I have been subjected to virtually no interference there. 22:57 PandemoniuM i will say this. my perfect game is an allianced based game.. players form towns, towns form alliances, and alliances coordinate attacks. These attacks would allow others to pillage and destory your town block by block, but when the fight is over, your town springs back to its previous state 22:57 PandemoniuM you have your creative side and your 'griefer' side fulfilled 22:58 PilzAdam xiong, yes, thats a good system, but you could as well just play alone if you dont meet other players 22:58 PandemoniuM yep 22:58 PandemoniuM mercenaries 22:58 thexyz you can't have a self-regulating minetest world without having a lot of players online; and you can't have a lot of players online for obvious reasons 22:58 xiong What stops three or seven of us from all building five km from spawn? 22:58 PilzAdam in real life people have something that they can / have to protect, in games they dont have this 22:59 xiong Of course, PA. 22:59 xiong What stops three or seven of us from all building five km from spawn? 22:59 thexyz comparing games to real life is pointless anyway 22:59 PandemoniuM regulating distance between town monuments aka center blocks of a town 22:59 PilzAdam so in games they dont fear the consequences of their actions 22:59 xiong I understand perfectly that we must accept a constant stream of suicide bombers. 22:59 PandemoniuM yes 23:00 xiong What stops three or seven of us from all building five km from spawn? 23:00 PandemoniuM server regulating distance between towns 23:00 thexyz nothing, do that 23:00 xiong We have community; we're not alone. We're remote from the stream of suicide bombers. Why do we require a god to smite them? 23:00 xiong Let them accumulate around the spawn and kill each other, if they like. 23:01 PilzAdam but on the other hand you have to make sure that the "start" for new players, that would actually turn out to be "good for the community", isnt too difficult 23:01 thexyz that's not why they're griefing 23:01 xiong What's "difficult", PA? 23:01 thexyz they don't want to kill or to destroy your building, they want to see your reaction 23:01 PilzAdam i.e. if everyone had to walk 10 km to get to the community's main city then nobody would want to join it 23:01 PandemoniuM nailed it 23:02 PilzAdam s/i.e./e.g./ 23:02 xiong I did say I object to the term "griefer" or "grief" used as a verb. It makes it hard to discuss the actions and people in detail. 23:02 PandemoniuM PA, i was figuring you could send invites to players, or give a person and individualized code so when they join the server, it would TP them 1 time to your town to formally be invited to it 23:03 thexyz I'm not a psychologist so I cannot discuss people, sorry 23:03 xiong Does everyone see that the previous two objections are opposed? thexyz says that the intent of some people is to upset others. PA says people will never walk so far to get to your safe community. 23:04 thexyz xiong: PA was talking about ordinary players 23:04 xiong Well. Please do remember I said, this is not a total solution. 23:04 xiong Do you see the point, though? 23:04 thexyz and I don't see a point in building a safe community on a server, you can just make your local server and play on it then 23:04 zsoltisawesome hey all check out http://tinyurl.com/moontest ! 23:05 thexyz s/safe/isolated/ 23:05 xiong Isolated from what? 23:05 thexyz from other people playing on that server 23:05 PandemoniuM there should be ain invitation system to gain build permissions to regions 23:05 zsoltisawesome yes 23:05 xiong I'm challenging the basic assumption: that all the fun stuff happens within 300 m of primary spawn. 23:06 xiong What if interesting people just hiked out? If the locals don't like the invaders, they can kill them. 23:06 PilzAdam PandemoniuM, I personally dislike servers where I cant instantly build on 23:06 PilzAdam it makes it too hard to "join" the server 23:06 xiong The cost of killing an invader is much, much less than the cost of hiking out to vandalize again. 23:06 PandemoniuM if i join a new server, i hike out and create my own town 23:07 PilzAdam xiong, the problem is that there arent always people to "defend" their buildings 23:07 xiong Clearly, residents should be able to return to a local spawn point. Residents, not just anyone who joins the server. 23:07 xiong Why not, PA? 23:07 xiong How much defense is required? 23:07 PandemoniuM i also created a mod on my public server where i have created a cannon turret and mg turret 23:07 xiong Must every single block be locked? 23:07 PandemoniuM they also autofire at Helicopters/Starships when unmanned 23:08 PilzAdam well, if someone starts to vandalise then someone else has to be there to kill him 23:08 xiong I tell you: I have built nearer to spawn than 3 km and had no trouble there to speak of. 23:08 PandemoniuM im going for alliances/npcs as mercs and soldiers, etc 23:08 PandemoniuM and god help a new player who wanders 100 blocks within my town because they will be shot on sight by my cannons :D 23:08 PilzAdam PandemoniuM, NPC soldiers? what hinders me from "protecting" the whole map with my soldiers? 23:09 xiong You *assume* that if I am not there around the clock, my buildings will be destroyed, my farms looted. I say from experience, no. 23:09 PandemoniuM town radius 23:09 PilzAdam who defines what a town is? 23:09 PandemoniuM so you join a server, you have a monument block 23:09 PandemoniuM you hike out, set that sucker down, and it clears out a 64 block diameter 23:09 PandemoniuM as you invite more players, diameter grows, etc 23:09 xiong Why is that necessary? 23:10 PandemoniuM to prevent people from placing cannon turrets and mg turrets all over the map 23:10 PilzAdam PandemoniuM, so you are not allowed to build as much as you want as a "one-man-town"? 23:10 PandemoniuM if im laying siege to someone, i might take a 'fort' block with me and it would allow me to do that 23:10 xiong I don't really like the idea of machine gun nests. 23:10 PandemoniuM PA, there needs to be ways to increase size of towns too 23:10 PilzAdam some people build more, some less, but all should have the same right to protect all of their buildings 23:10 xiong I think control of spawn points is the entire issue, really. 23:11 zsoltisawesome if nobod yis going to talk about anything useful, im out 23:11 PilzAdam all the current protection systems require a god that sets them 23:11 PilzAdam so you have to beg the god to get land 23:11 PandemoniuM thats dumb! 23:12 xiong Let's say we start with that... obelisk. I place an obelisk; it's mine. I can die or just get bored wherever I am and choose to respawn at my obelisk. 23:12 PandemoniuM if you have a monument block and build your initial area with it, you can regulate the space in between other towns 23:12 PilzAdam now the challenge is to design a protection system that doesnt need a god but also doesnt allow one player to block the whole map 23:12 xiong Now another fellow wanders in and we get to talking; we decide to settle together. I grant him access to the obelisk. Now it's not mine anymore; it's ours. 23:13 PandemoniuM im taking what i made on my Manic Digger server and bringing it over here, but im concerned about lag issues 23:13 PilzAdam while being flexible enough to not annoy massive builders 23:13 xiong I don't protect any land at all with the obelisk. It just creates a spawn point. 23:13 PandemoniuM well yeah PA thats a whole issue in itself 23:14 PandemoniuM my public server is going in a specific direction, so there arent so much mass-builders 23:14 PilzAdam xiong, a far away spawnpoint is "prorection" in some way 23:14 PandemoniuM as there are town builders and fighting 23:14 xiong Exactly, PA. SoftSecurity. 23:14 PandemoniuM so xiong, if i came across your obelisk, i would carve space out beneath it and lay down lava for you 23:15 PandemoniuM and that would be ok in your server right? 23:15 xiong First you have to get there, though. 23:15 PilzAdam if you want security you have to go far away, but then nobody will be able to join you (since you are so far away), and you basically build on your own 23:15 PandemoniuM in the off chance i did 23:15 PilzAdam so there is no need to play on a server anymore 23:15 PandemoniuM if people formed towns there would be discovery involved. people would travel around just to map things out 23:15 xiong I don't see how you come to both conclusions. Either the point is so far away that nobody will come; or it is not. 23:16 xiong Exactly, PM! 23:16 xiong Is that bad? 23:16 PandemoniuM to each their own 23:17 PandemoniuM each server is its own world right? 23:17 PandemoniuM or parallel reality even 23:17 xiong That's where we started the discussion. 23:17 PandemoniuM :D 23:17 PandemoniuM i feel so connected 23:17 PilzAdam xiong, you dont understand the problem I see here? 23:18 xiong So my first question, which does not seem to be answered, is: Why is it important for the local god to smite people who annoy others? 23:18 xiong No, PA, I don't. 23:18 xiong In Orby-land, formerly Wazu, I have seen several players hike out to the very edge of the map. This is for no long term purpose. 23:18 zsoltisawesome stop, maybe today? 23:19 PilzAdam if you want to build something you have 2 options: 1) build far away from the spawn 2) build near the spawn 23:19 xiong I have never felt it a burden to hike a kilometer or two from spawn and, indeed, it's my routine practice in any server join for the first time. 23:20 kaeza xiong, I'll reverse the question: why should people be annoyed by some total stranger coming to destroy their buildings? 23:20 xiong I don't see why anyone that I might want to have as neighbors cannot also hike out so far. 23:20 PilzAdam if you choose 1) then nobody will come to destroy your buildings, but also nobody will come to join your town 23:20 xiong You say that, PA; but why is it true? 23:20 PandemoniuM there should be public and private towns 23:21 PilzAdam well, if its that hard to join the community on a server then new players will just move to other servers where its easier 23:21 PandemoniuM public towns can 'vote' to ban people 23:21 xiong Do you think I'm so peculiar, that I walk from spawn before I start to build? Nobody else does this? 23:21 kaeza some players just want to play, they don't want to be burdened with the task of protecting their homes 23:21 PandemoniuM i run from spawn 23:22 PilzAdam xiong, actually yes, I do 23:22 xiong What is "that hard" about walking a mile or two, even without roads, let alone 'fly'? 23:22 PilzAdam judging from what I have seen on servers 23:22 PilzAdam most buildings are arround spawn 23:22 PandemoniuM and i hate that 23:22 PandemoniuM i hate joining and seeing 'this block is protected' 23:22 PandemoniuM for miles 23:22 xiong I will say that in BR-land I have seen a particular example of a community built very far from primary spawn. It's a couple klicks out. It's called 'Bohemia'. 23:23 PilzAdam you have to make your world easy to join for normal players, but hard to destroy for "griefers" 23:23 xiong Again, why? 23:23 PandemoniuM joining a server should have options like a list of public towns, the option to 'spit me out somewhere on the map' 23:23 xiong I do not understand why anyone feels a walk of a few klicks is an absolute barrier. It takes months to build a nice town; it takes half an hour to walk/swim/climb 5 km. 23:24 PilzAdam because if its hard to join the people simply wont join it, and the server will stay empty; and if the second thing isnt true then many "griefers" will join and destroy everything, the people who are there will leave then too 23:24 PilzAdam and in both cases there wouldnt be any community left 23:24 xiong John, do you understand that once you get out there, you can establish a local spawn, just for you and your buddies? 23:24 xiong You walk once; you're not required to walk again. 23:25 PilzAdam I dont play longer than 30 minutes on a server; and I dont want to "waste" all this time on walking 23:25 xiong You're just repeating the assertion, PA. You're not backing it up. I've offered counterexamples. 23:25 PilzAdam xiong, you assume that people will play a lot on the server 23:25 xiong No, I'm not assuming that. 23:25 PilzAdam while I try to see it through the eyes of a regular user joining the server 23:26 xiong Based on experience in other worlds, I see that players spend hundreds of hours digging and building. 23:26 PilzAdam I do not understand why anyone feels a walk of a few klicks is an absolute barrier. It takes months to build a nice town; it takes half an hour to walk/swim/climb 5 km. 23:26 PandemoniuM everytime i join a server, and im running around some horribly huge town for a few minutes to the point where i cant easily get to an area to start building my OWN stuff in my OWN area away from everyone elses shit, i leave 23:26 xiong Well. True or false? 23:26 PilzAdam for a new user this half an hour is simply wasted time, he wont be willing to spend it 23:26 PilzAdam since the player doesnt even know if its worth it 23:26 xiong Well, if not, that's a good thing, yes? 23:27 PilzAdam PandemoniuM, why do you play on servers? 23:27 PandemoniuM to build towns with my friends 23:27 xiong The value of a person to a community is proportional to the time he is willing to invest in it. 23:27 PilzAdam PandemoniuM, so you dont want to join the community that is already on the server 23:28 PilzAdam +? 23:28 PandemoniuM nope 23:28 PandemoniuM ive been a clan leader for many games my whole life 23:28 xiong http://meatballwiki.org/wiki/SoftSecurity 23:28 PandemoniuM im an orgnizer and leader imho 23:28 PandemoniuM the greatest thing in the WORLD is a virtual earth 23:28 PandemoniuM and to say everyone start here and walk outward is crazy 23:28 PilzAdam xiong, well, but why would people invest time if they dont see what the end-result is? 23:29 xiong How can anyone see that? 23:29 PilzAdam on servers where they spawn in the main city they can see where they gonna spend their next few hours 23:29 PandemoniuM why does earth have so many races and different cities? 23:29 xiong The result is in the future. 23:29 xiong By your thesis, nobody would ever build in a brand-new server. There's nothing there; why stick around? 23:29 PandemoniuM god didnt set our spawn point and say ok new humans, run from here to go start your own stuff 23:29 PilzAdam e.g. you walk an hour to a town and then you notice that its completly made out of nyancats (and you hate nyancats) 23:30 PilzAdam xiong, the server admin usually builds something before the server goes online 23:30 xiong Well, I didn't. 23:30 PandemoniuM ok. cool 23:31 PandemoniuM i didnt either 23:31 xiong I started a testing server with near-zero configuration, no mods except what's bundled in, and put it on the public list. 23:31 PilzAdam also, how do you know where all these towns are? how do you know where to walk? 23:31 proller ask Calinou about griefing, he spent hours and days to sestroy 23:31 PandemoniuM it would be cool for 'roads' to be build between allied towns 23:32 xiong As I say, I walked out about a klick and a half and started building. After a day, another guy came out to the same area and started building. He built nice stuff, we got along. 23:32 PandemoniuM aka top y level block always red brick between the 2 towns 23:32 VanessaE hi 23:32 PandemoniuM no, not flat john 23:32 PilzAdam xiong, but does this system scale? 23:32 PandemoniuM more like a 'Trails Mod 23:32 PilzAdam does it work for a whole server? 23:32 PandemoniuM in response to someone saying 'how do i know where to go 23:32 xiong I don't really think it's useful to ask that question, PA. I don't think it's useful to say "That cannot work" about anything. 23:33 PilzAdam or is it just a random thing that happend to you and that guy that will never happen again? 23:33 PandemoniuM coming cross this dirt road would be an indicator that it goes to somewhere 23:33 xiong The question is, What is desirable? Then we can talk about how to make it work. 23:33 PilzAdam xiong, now you are moving away from the practice into the theory, which isnt good IMO 23:33 xiong Um, no. I'm only discussing theory here. 23:34 PandemoniuM I have a real question, as a dev coming from a different project called Manic Digger... my 4gb MT pub is very laggy with more than 3-4 players.. is this consistant across all servers? Is this normal? 23:34 xiong One question, really: What is the proper role of the local god? 23:34 PilzAdam in theory: nothing but hosting the server 23:34 xiong "Proper", as in correct or desirable. What should the local god do? 23:34 VanessaE to kick the asses of vandals when they show up? ;) 23:34 xiong VE, I ask why. 23:35 xiong I challenge the assumption that a person bent solely on destruction either is guaranteed to cause it -- or must be prevented from doing so. 23:35 VanessaE well in my particular example, because people invest the time, sometimes the hard, actual money, to build their constructions in the game. 23:37 xiong So my theory is that this is not necessary or even desirable. 23:37 PilzAdam xiong, hmmm.... I think its not useful to talk about the theory only; it doesnt help when it comes to actually setting up a server, so I guess Ill quit the discussion now 23:37 VanessaE (I refer of course to money used to buy hardware that is then used to improve one's gaming environment) 23:38 xiong On several worlds, I have built far from spawn and had virtually no trouble there. I don't see that heavy security measures, particularly outgame security, is necessary. 23:39 PilzAdam bye 23:39 xiong I don't think it's useful to debate whether SoftSecurity *can* work. The question is whether it should be done; then we can discuss how to make it work. 23:40 VanessaE xiong: celeron55 used to run a creative server early on. it was shut down "due to a fuckton of griefing". 23:40 xiong Nobody seems willing to discuss the question of what's desirable. Why, John? 23:40 xiong VE, I object strongly to the term "griefing". I don't think it motivates clear thinking. 23:40 xiong Did players vandalize the whole map? 23:41 VanessaE object all you like, that is the term we use. 23:41 PandemoniuM because these minecraft engine clones get not only their own brand of griefers, but Minecraft Fan-boys who are literally on a mission to ruin this game because they are 12 year old trolls 23:42 xiong Why is it so hard for me to be clear? 23:42 xiong I fully expect a constant stream of annoying people to come out of the spawn point. That's a given. 23:42 xiong No debate is required. 23:43 xiong I do desire to allow players to build without being greatly annoyed by the annoying people. That also is a given. 23:44 VanessaE then you have no choice but to have protection measures in place of some kind, even if it's a hair-trigger on the rollback recorder. 23:44 xiong I ask, plainly, why it is thought necessary to put hard obstacles in the way of the annoying people. By 'hard', I mean such things as land protection schemes and frequent intervention by people with super-player powers. 23:44 VanessaE I use rollback, no interact by default, and the areas mod. 23:44 xiong Again: Why? 23:44 VanessaE because if I don't, the world WILL be destroyed and it makes more work for ME and my legitimate players to repair it. 23:44 xiong Why is it *necessary*? Why is no other scheme within the world of discussion? 23:44 VanessaE that's why. 23:45 kaeza xiong, because it's our server, our domain, our universe; we are deities, we need no excuses 23:45 xiong I don't see it really moves anything forward to say, flatly: This *will* happen, no matter what. 23:46 xiong If we're all-powerful, kaeza; then why can't we figure out alternatives? 23:46 VanessaE nearly any other server operator will tell you the same thing - we already do enough work to keep the fucking server running, and in some cases we pay money to keep it online. That's enough. To expect us to do more than we already do is unfair, imho. 23:46 xiong I'd rather do less, VE. 23:46 VanessaE so would I 23:46 kaeza xiong, then less theory more practice 23:46 VanessaE but we can't because...human nature. 23:46 xiong Did anyone actually read this link: http://meatballwiki.org/wiki/SoftSecurity 23:46 VanessaE 12 year old trolls, as you call them, are like cats. 23:47 VanessaE try herding them. 23:47 VanessaE you will fail. miserably. 23:47 VanessaE no offense to the well-behaved contingent here. 23:47 PandemoniuM it would be really cool to have this public town with signs all over it that said "Please do not destory town" 23:47 xiong So you will shut off all discussion by saying: That won't work; so no point talking about it. 23:47 PandemoniuM and ban anyone who sets off tnt, etc in that region 23:48 PandemoniuM so that what comes OUT of the public dummy town are players who are not 12 year old minecraft nerds 23:48 VanessaE xiong: no, I believe I said, quite clearly, that you will fail, not that a particular method will or will not work. 23:48 VanessaE in fact I even said, and I quote, "try". 23:48 xiong Well then. Can we move on from that assertion? I don't think it's useful. 23:48 VanessaE that was your invitation to make an attempt rather than conjecture. 23:48 xiong I came here to ask the question of what's desirable. 23:49 VanessaE what is desirable is actions that will keep griefers from even bothering in the first place. 23:49 VanessaE what would make Minetest (and other sandbox games) cease to be an inviting target? 23:49 xiong John, the word "griefer" does not move the discussion. Who did what and why was that a problem? 23:49 PandemoniuM i feel like sometimes servers need 'villians' 23:49 VanessaE the answer will most likely also include things that will make it cease to be inviting to legit players. 23:49 PandemoniuM but not 'griefers' 23:50 VanessaE PandemoniuM: villains can be programmed. griefers can't. 23:50 xiong The whole map? All 61 km squared of it? 23:50 VanessaE people destroyed buildings, took advantage of things like lava cooling or dug deep holes at the spawn, causing new players to fall to their deaths on respawn. 23:51 xiong Well. Maybe you shouldn't build near spawn, then. 23:51 kaeza why? 23:51 xiong Why is elsewhere nowhere? 23:51 VanessaE so then, because griefers destroy near the spawn, players shouldn't build there? why? 23:51 VanessaE why should players be forced to move away? 23:51 xiong Why not? 23:51 VanessaE no, why? 23:51 VanessaE you answer first, you made the first assertion. 23:51 xiong "Everybody"? 23:52 xiong How about you want a house that is seen by people you respect and who respect you? 23:52 xiong But you do not want your house to be seen by suicide bombers. 23:53 kaeza alright, /me feels like feeding a troll 23:53 VanessaE at the spawn on Creative I have a big tower I dubbed Minetest Services, Inc. I'd like people to see that. Why should I move it away from the spawn just because of some juvenile delinquents? 23:53 VanessaE kaeza: noooooo 23:53 VanessaE don't do it 23:53 * VanessaE takes away kaeza's bag of peanuts :D 23:53 xiong VE, it's a lot of work, punishing people for damaging buildings; it's not easy and no scheme is foolproof, is it? But simply building away from spawn cuts the vandalism to nearly zero. 23:53 kaeza VanessaE, that was meant as past tense or whatever 23:53 VanessaE oh heh 23:53 kaeza :P 23:54 VanessaE xiong: it's quite trivial "punishing" people, as you put it. 23:54 VanessaE three commands and a griefer and his damage are history. 23:54 xiong The point is not why are you forced to move. Given a new world, one place is just as good as any other, in the general sense. Why value the land near spawn? 23:54 xiong No, VE; you're contradicting yourself. Earlier you complained about the workload. 23:55 VanessaE xiong: yes, because the *rest* of maintaining a server contributes to that workload. 23:55 VanessaE fixing griefings is only a small part of it. 23:55 xiong You guys really have a hard time understanding me, don't you? You can build a town somewhere else. There will be plenty of people, buildings, shops, whatever. You can have a local respawn point there. You can have admirers, critics, collaborators. 23:56 VanessaE xiong: so you propose, basically, a spawn in the middle of nowhere. welcome to the 19th century. 23:56 xiong The distance from spawn to your town is a number, a variable. You decide. 23:56 xiong Again, why is that nowhere? What makes the spawn point somewhere? 23:57 VanessaE because of the TIME. 23:57 VanessaE jesus man, do you even PLAY on others' servers? 23:57 xiong John, that's exactly my point. I routinely walk ten or fifteen minutes before I start to build. 23:57 xiong Then I spend weeks or months building there. 23:57 Jordach xiong, don't force your ideolagy on others 23:58 VanessaE it isn't about walking 30 meters or 300 or 3000 - it's about spending 30 MINUTES just finding your way to the nearest town so you can build as part of that server's COMMUNITY and HAVE FUN. 23:58 PandemoniuM calm down jordach 23:58 Jordach he expects everyone to be the same when joining a server 23:58 VanessaE oh wait 23:58 xiong Force, Jordach? What's force? You run your server, we run ours? Or must we all run our servers the same way to avoid "forcing ideology" on new players? 23:58 VanessaE I forgot, "fun" is not in your vocabulary, as you have plainly said in the past. 23:58 PandemoniuM fun is a gateway to the devil 23:59 xiong Why is there anger about this? 23:59 Jordach xiong, some server's offer things to do, while others are sit back and relax, the ultimate thing to do is upto you 23:59 PandemoniuM i force my players to sit in silence on my server and no build permissions 23:59 VanessaE because you refuse to accept our side of this just as much as you seem to perceive that we don't accept your arguments. 23:59 VanessaE the difference is that we have 2+ years of history in this game genre to look back on to decide how things are gonna go 23:59 xiong VE, it's not symmetrical. You obviously can run a server as you do. Why cannot we run a server a different way?