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IRC log for #minetest, 2013-12-07

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:05 Renoki joined #minetest
00:32 PilzAdam bye
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03:30 ShadowNinja sfan5: It would be more reasonable for the times to be in UTC.
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03:44 MinetestBot GIT: ShadowNinja commited to minetest/minetest: Fix paralax occlusion setting 96f753a108 2013-12-06T19:42:09-08:00 http://git.io/PdDK0Q
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04:03 MinetestBot GIT: kaeza commited to minetest/minetest_game: Fix player skin changing code. ba4c80644e 2013-12-06T19:45:17-08:00 http://git.io/BqPCLA
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04:23 fireglow joined #minetest
04:24 fireglow hi
04:25 us_0gb joined #minetest
04:25 kaeza hi fireglow
04:26 fireglow hey :)
04:42 bas080 joined #minetest
04:46 OldCoder howdy
04:47 codehero joined #minetest
04:48 fireglow just installed it, runs remarkably smooth on FreeBSD with a passive graphics card
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04:55 anunakki OldCoder,
04:55 anunakki hello there
04:55 anunakki i have to speak with you
04:56 OldCoder I am here
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05:34 RealBadAngel joined #minetest
05:37 thefamilygrog66 howdy
05:39 VanessaE hi
05:44 VanessaE joined #minetest
05:46 VanessaE sigh
05:47 VanessaE I wondered how long it was gonna be before that stupid wireless card finally gave up the ghost.
05:52 thefamilygrog66 the ghost of wireless past
05:52 arsdragonfly1 joined #minetest
05:52 VanessaE heh
05:53 thefamilygrog66 holy crap, I just got all puritanical on the forums
05:53 thefamilygrog66 haha
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07:15 sfan5 hm
07:15 sfan5 I still wonder what happend last night
07:17 Exio4 that sounds bad
07:17 sfan5 things not working was probably my hdd failing
07:17 sfan5 but why did everything crash with sigbus?
07:18 sfan5 >You can get a SIGBUS from an unaligned access if you turn on the unaligned access trap, but normally that's off on an x86.
07:19 sfan5 I don't think /usr/bin/clear does that
07:23 sfan5 I think I should do a backup
07:24 sfan5 oh yay, pulseaudio is broken
07:27 Exio4 pulseaudio is always broken
07:27 Exio4 jackd > pulseaudio
07:29 sfan5 sound does not work
07:34 sfan5 oh nice, it doesn't find my soundcard anymore
07:35 VanessaE sfan5: damn, you got probs.
07:35 sfan5 I think I should do a backup right now
07:35 sfan5 I should get a new laptop, but I want a new android phone first :-/
07:37 sfan5 *connects to networks smb share*
07:45 sfan5 stupid gvfs!
07:45 sfan5 the root user can't use the gvfs thingys of other users
07:51 VanessaE > needs new laptop, wants new phone.
07:51 VanessaE > solution:  get a new tablet? :)
07:53 VanessaE ok maybe not.
07:54 sfan5 nah
07:56 sfan5 who the fuck programmed this gvfs shit
07:57 VanessaE the same idiot who programmed pulseaudio? :)
07:57 VanessaE I'm serious
07:58 VanessaE I swear, sometimes I think Linux is suffering from industrial sabotage or something
07:58 sfan5 I mean WTH root can't access everything or what?
07:59 VanessaE I know
07:59 sfan5 for gvfs root is like admin on windows
07:59 VanessaE it's always been that way with,.gvfs
07:59 VanessaE .gvfs*
07:59 VanessaE and I haven't the foggiest clue why
07:59 sfan5 this is my fucking system and I want root to access everything it wants
08:00 VanessaE and if you ls -la the file it's like all ?'s for the perms
08:00 VanessaE s/file/entry/
08:00 VanessaE (I forget if it's a file or a dir or pipe or what)
08:00 sfan5 ls: cannot access /run/user/1000/gvfs: Permission denied
08:00 VanessaE ls -lad
08:01 sfan5 same
08:01 VanessaE at this point I'd probably chattr that fucker and delete it, then. :P
08:01 VanessaE but idk if that'll break anything
08:02 sfan5 I'll just setup nfs on my pi to make a backup
08:02 sfan5 wait, no
08:02 VanessaE dd.
08:02 VanessaE ghost it to another disk
08:02 VanessaE then pick it apart after a clean install
08:03 sfan5 sudo tar -cvf /dev/stdout . | cat > /run/usr/1000/gvfs/<stuff>/backup.tar.bz2
08:03 sfan5 that may actually work
08:03 VanessaE "I saw we take off and nuke the site from orbit.  It's the only way to be sure."
08:03 VanessaE say*
08:04 VanessaE maybe
08:04 kahrl why use gvfs intead of mount.cifs?
08:05 sfan5 yep it does
08:05 kahrl instead*
08:05 VanessaE kahrl: because gnome?
08:05 kahrl someone still uses gnome?
08:05 VanessaE why use pulseaudio on Linux when ALSA already does everything?
08:07 VanessaE kahrl: doesn't Linus? :)
08:07 sfan5 my backup is running, time for breakfast
08:07 us}0gb QEMU doesn't seem to have sound for me under Alsa. It also throws errors.
08:07 VanessaE sfan5: btw, why not rsync?
08:08 sfan5 VanessaE: I'd like to have it in one file
08:08 VanessaE fair enough
08:10 sfan5 saving it with 1MB/s is going to take a while
08:10 sfan5 maybe I shouldn't use WiFi for that..
08:10 VanessaE better that than dial-up...
08:10 sfan5 but our router only has 1 LAN port...
08:11 VanessaE time to buy a switch
08:11 sfan5 I have a DIR-100 lying around
08:12 sfan5 screw this, I'll just backup directly to another HDD
08:12 VanessaE any idea what failed?
08:12 VanessaE (bad sectors?  bad chips?  dust?)
08:32 sfan5 dust? in a laptop?
08:33 sfan5 VanessaE: what do you mean by bad chips?
08:33 VanessaE you'd be surprised.
08:33 VanessaE burnt-out electronics
08:33 sfan5 it doesn't smell like magic smoke
08:33 VanessaE e.g. a controller chip on the drive or so
08:33 sfan5 when the backup is finished I'll take a look at the HDD
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08:56 arsdragonfly1 just updated my advanced_market mod
08:56 arsdragonfly1 check it out folks
08:56 arsdragonfly1 https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=7253
08:57 Peacock i dont think too many people are awake yet :P
08:58 arsdragonfly1 but it's 16:58 here
08:59 arsdragonfly1 so it is the life in far east :-P
08:59 Peacock hehe, 4am east coast, 1am west coast and early morning in EU :P
08:59 Peacock so you must be somewhere in the pacific
08:59 Peacock or far east
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09:16 john_minetest Hello everypony
09:16 VanessaE hi
09:17 Peacock no "hello unicorns", you some sort of racist?
09:17 Peacock :P
09:23 john_minetest Even unicorns are ponies inside. They are just large ponies with one horn.
09:23 Peacock unicorns = horny ponies?
09:23 john_minetest ...
09:24 john_minetest Also in MLP there seems to be unicorns. So that's the prove that unicorns are ponies, too.
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09:34 Peacock sweet, new version of space engineers out, maybe now i can use my mining ships lol
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10:45 sfan5 wow, it is not backing up since 2 hours
10:46 sfan5 now*
10:49 Leoneof joined #minetest
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10:52 manuel_ hi ich brauche hilfe wenn ich bei minetest einen block abbaue oder platziere laggt es
10:52 Leoneof joined #minetest
10:54 john_minetest manuel_: Please join #minetest-de
10:55 john_minetest "Willkommen. Deutscher Kanal: #minetest-de"
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11:24 specing Guys
11:24 specing What do I do if someone stole my name?
11:24 specing on clip's public server
11:25 Jordach make a new name
11:25 VanessaE contact the admin
11:25 specing the imposter seems to have stole my stash, too
11:26 specing Any clip admins here?
11:26 VanessaE someone got your password then?
11:26 reactor specing: ask admins' help.
11:26 specing VanessaE: I had no password
11:26 reactor Pwned.
11:26 specing :S
11:26 specing I thought that password was for servers
11:26 reactor No passwords. Smells like human nature.
11:26 specing for joining passworded servers
11:26 VanessaE that's bad.
11:27 specing other games have public key auth, I assumed it was the same here
11:27 VanessaE always always always always always always always always always always always use a password
11:27 VanessaE minetest does not.
11:27 specing Nobody told me that :(
11:27 VanessaE how would it be pubkey auth if you had no opportunity to trade keys?
11:28 VanessaE derp :)
11:28 specing VanessaE: Quake
11:28 VanessaE never played it
11:28 VanessaE not online that is
11:28 specing Quake uses pubkey auth
11:29 VanessaE no matter.
11:29 specing most Linux games are quake-based, so I got used to that feature
11:29 jin_xi joined #minetest
11:29 VanessaE you'll have to contact the admin and have him assign you a new password and see if he can give you your stuff back
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11:39 reactor But once again, pwned.
11:40 RealBadAngel joined #minetest
11:44 john_minetest Normally server should have a setting to require passwords.
11:44 john_minetest If servers don't, those servers are dangerous.
11:44 reactor Dangerous! In the butt!
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11:44 Peacock in the butt?
11:45 * Peacock walks slowly out of the room
11:45 reactor That's a quote.
11:45 reactor It's fine not to appreciate quotes.
11:47 VanessaE all five of mine do.
11:48 sapier if there's nothin to protect on that server why use a password?
11:48 reactor Identity.
11:48 VanessaE be...cause maybe you want to ..
11:48 VanessaE yes
11:48 VanessaE precisely that.
11:49 reactor Identity is priceless.
11:49 reactor Once someone steals it, they can make you look like a complete asshole.
11:50 Peacock i found the opposite is true lol
11:50 Peacock well known people will take on other names to grief other people's servers
11:50 Peacock geoip was pretty helpful in figuring out who they were lol
11:50 sapier usually I'm more concerned about my passwords then about my identity if I join a minetest server ;-)
11:52 RealBadAngel_ joined #minetest
11:54 Peacock if i dont stop sneezing soon i'll become dehydrated :/
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11:57 Peacock https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7938329856/h2A023DEA/
11:57 * Jordach attacks Peacock with a fuckload of feather pillows
11:59 VanessaE ah photoshop... where would we be without obvious copy&paste? :)
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12:00 * VanessaE fades...
12:02 Peacock i suppose i should put up the bloody christmas tree today
12:02 reactor Don't kill trees for that.
12:02 john_minetest http://imgur.com/gallery/XkaIh6Q
12:02 Peacock you kidding, i have a fake one and even then the cat still nibbles at it
12:02 Peacock a  real tree wouldn't last a week
12:03 VanessaE who wants a christmas tree covered in blood?  ew.
12:03 Peacock the fun part is figuring out which plugs are on which breakers here
12:07 VanessaE "the second thing at christmas that's such a pain to me:  rigging up the lights [...]"  "what?  we have no more extension cords!?"  "Get a flashlight, we blew a fuse!" "one light goes out, they all go out!" "Now why the hell are they blinking!?" "fine, you're so smart, YOU rig up the lights!"
12:08 * Jordach doesn't have that issue
12:08 reactor hristmass illumination is a waste of energy.
12:08 * Jordach is getting USB lights to drop around the monitor
12:08 reactor s/hr/Chr/
12:09 * Jordach made a forum post with a .svg image embedded
12:09 VanessaE most of the "2nd day of" quotes from "12 Pains of Christmas", no clue who actually did the song (usually attributed to Bob Rivers)
12:09 reactor Why not spend those money on new hardware?
12:10 VanessaE ok, I'm off to bed
12:10 VanessaE brain crash
12:10 VanessaE night
12:10 Jordach <VanessaE> I/O error reading /dev/brain: device not ready
12:10 Jordach <VanessaE> Segmentation fault (core dumped)
12:11 reactor Nighty.
12:11 john_minetest I am using candles
12:13 Peacock well there's no shortage of energy here for christmas lights lol and it's certainly not expensive enough that i could buy hardware with the difference
12:13 reactor Candles are a fire hazard.
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12:16 Jordach $5 that freeminer dies out
12:16 Jordach we've already established the MESE standard
12:17 Peacock lol why do people have such a hardon for minetest forks? its not like anyone bitches when mods get the same treatment
12:17 john_minetest I guess that
12:17 john_minetest it is like that:
12:18 john_minetest minetest has a community. When there is a fork there is a split. mods don't have a community. If mods split nobody cares.
12:19 john_minetest *mods fork
12:19 Peacock mods don't have communities but they have users, and every time it's forked thats part of your feedback and bugtesting that goes too
12:20 Peacock but either way, the principals behind both are the same, it's open source, so tough shit if you dont like the forks lol
12:20 john_minetest If linux would really fork (not only a small fork like linux-libre but something big like "We rewrite everything and it won't be compatible to linux", it would be annoying.
12:21 Peacock and if you're worried about the community splitting up then perhaps you should take it as a hint that a sizeable portion of the community wasn't being serviced by the current engine with its design and direction
12:22 Peacock either way I see no benefit to forcing devs to work together on one and only one engine if they spend more time arguing about their code than writing it
12:22 john_minetest It is not about the size of the split. It is about the people who go. If some noobs try to fork it and hack something together I don't care. But if some really good devs go away for that it is a problem.
12:22 Peacock people go all the time, surely you must have noticed
12:23 Peacock whether they go to work on a fork or just go, whats the difference?
12:23 Peacock the really good devs have the same rights as the noobs
12:24 Peacock and frankly, it's more your problem than theirs
12:26 Peacock either way, im pretty sure proller would have just given up on minetest at some point if things had kept going the way they were, at least this way freeminer can try different shit and if it works itt'l be ported to MT
12:26 john_minetest That's the point. It is my problem when they go so I don't want it.
12:26 john_minetest <Peacock> and frankly, it's more your problem than theirs
12:27 Peacock usually when you have a problem you try to solve it, you can either become a dev for MT to make up the difference, or bitch about freeminer as you seem to have chosen to do, though i dont know what benefit that brings
12:28 Peacock if anything it makes you/this community just seem bitter about it
12:32 Jordach http://xkcd.com/838/
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12:33 reactor Lol.
12:36 thardin :D
12:42 cisoun wth someone ported minetest to android Oo
12:42 cisoun oh that's xyz
12:42 cisoun damn
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12:49 john_minetest Peacock: I am not "bitching about freeminer", I am testing sapiers new modstore stuff so it can be pulled. I am contributing to the minetest development.
12:53 Peacock well you did when it came out, and every time i've logged in here in the last week there's always someone saying something negative about it, which might explain why i've spent more time playing Space Engineers this week
12:54 specing Ingame mod lister doesen't work?
12:54 specing Says page 1/0
12:54 specing Ah now it does
12:56 specing Oh, now it even supplies pics
12:58 specing I see a lot of mods listed in the server lister are missing in the ingame mod selector
12:58 specing What is up?
13:05 iqualfragile specing: there was an update, now thumbnails are used
13:05 iqualfragile instead of sending a hd picture and then rescaling it to 120x80
13:06 iqualfragile the mods listed on the website but not ingame do not have any approved versions, so it would be useless to display those
13:06 iqualfragile Peacock: freeminer is a waste of time
13:06 Peacock see that bitterness i was talking about ...
13:08 iqualfragile what bitternes?
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13:09 iqualfragile just merging all the pullrequests is a bad idea
13:09 iqualfragile and just forking the project over minor differences is a waste of time
13:10 Peacock well im sorry your precious engine got forked :P but i'd suggest you do what modders and distros have done and just deal with it :-)
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13:12 iqualfragile Peacock: it is not my enigne and obviously you are allowed to fork it, but i just do not see the reason
13:13 Peacock well thats the wonderful thing about open source, you don't have to give a reason. Think i understand why there are dozens of ubuntu flavours when you can just install those packages from minimal ubuntu? hell no lol
13:19 john_minetest Peacock: Also I was not bitching about that freeminer was bad but about forks in general.
13:19 john_minetest When a project is really that bad that people have to fork, there must be something wrong.
13:19 Peacock well i dont really get how someone can be pro-opensource but anti-forks, isn't that basically software dictatorship? kinda like vendor lock-in
13:19 john_minetest So that has to be fixed. And it can't be fixed with a fork.
13:20 john_minetest open-source means that everybody can decide.
13:20 Peacock that's an oversimplification and an inaccurate one at that
13:20 john_minetest That should be possible without a fork. A fork is only nessecary if the new idea is against the basic game principle.
13:21 john_minetest And freeminer is still a "sandbox open world voxel mining game"
13:21 Peacock there are really no rules about forking, you should read the licenses you people make modders user lol
13:21 iqualfragile Peacock: there is something wrong with forks: they waste effort
13:21 iqualfragile so there needs to be a reason to fork
13:22 iqualfragile otherwise its just a ego-thing
13:22 john_minetest If minetest and freeminer devs would work really strong together to make a better minetest, minetest would become better.
13:22 Peacock where does it say there needs to be a reason to fork?
13:22 jin_xi you really think they forked for no reason?
13:22 iqualfragile Peacock: in your head, if you are captable of using logic
13:22 Peacock and how is it not a waste of effort to instead spend all your time arguing with the current dev team when you can manage your own project instead?
13:23 iqualfragile Peacock: is there some kind of wiki page or anything listing the reasons for this fork?
13:23 john_minetest If the current dev team won't take arguments it is maybe a bad dev team. But I don't think that the current dev team won't listen to arguments.
13:24 Peacock im not the one with logic problems :P you people are more pro-open source than I am and even i can't get why you're against one of its most basic concepts (forking)
13:24 john_minetest Forking for no reason is just wasted resources
13:24 john_minetest Resources that are missing in minetest now.
13:24 iqualfragile and we have given that argument like 5 times allready
13:24 Peacock well they are not your resources to waste, it's the person doing the forking and they're entitled to decide where they put their resources
13:25 iqualfragile so: is there a good reason to fork? can you provide me with good arguments?
13:25 iqualfragile Peacock: no, you are actually wasting my recources
13:25 Peacock i dont have to, and neither does proller
13:25 Peacock send me the bill ;)
13:25 iqualfragile and you are wasting the recources of every modder
13:26 iqualfragile because they are required to upload their mod three times
13:26 Peacock you base on the premise that without a fork proller would be happy to keep waiting for months for a yes/no on his pulls, i think he would have quit pretty soon
13:26 john_minetest Peacock: We saw what happens when stuff gets pulled too fast.
13:26 john_minetest Minetest broke and nothing happened anymore.
13:26 Peacock and to be honest, he was told to fork or go work on MT classic by more than one member, so it should come as no surprise that that is what happened
13:26 john_minetest Just because one pull wasn't checked enough before merging.
13:26 iqualfragile but you have a point: prollers pull-requests were really dealayed a lot
13:27 john_minetest Peacock, Minetest Classic HAS a reason to fork.
13:27 iqualfragile that was because minetest devolopement was slowed don a lot
13:27 Peacock you're saying you can't reproduce what Minetest Classic offers in Minetest?
13:27 iqualfragile why didnt he just requested to get write access to minetest?
13:27 john_minetest Peacock: Minetest Classic changes basic game mechanics (mods) to get a different game.
13:27 Peacock they removed mods, which you can do with Minetest proper
13:28 Exio4 iqualfragile: the general "dev" was slowed down because proller merging features (some unwanted or WIP) with bug fixes in the same pull requests or commits
13:28 john_minetest Peacock: Their opinion is, that mods are too slow. So they changed it to not having any mods but still the advantages of the engine.
13:28 Exio4 and also because hmm/kahrl being busy
13:28 Exio4 isn't MT classic 0.3?
13:29 john_minetest Yeah.
13:29 Exio4 when mods wasn't even a 'real thing'
13:29 Exio4 and just like the modstore was for 0.4.4
13:29 john_minetest Minetest-classic has no lua scripting capabiilities.
13:29 john_minetest Because it is too slow for the devs.
13:29 iqualfragile Exio4: wasnt this later on?
13:30 iqualfragile didnt he have seperate pullrequests at first
13:30 john_minetest They want the advantages of the 0.4.x engine without the mods.
13:30 Peacock so with proller out of the way MT dev can advance with fewer arguments, proller is happy working on his own thing, i dont see how any of this is bad
13:30 iqualfragile and then merged them into one gigantic one?
13:30 Exio4 he had like four or five "big pull requests"
13:30 iqualfragile Peacock: simple: some of the pullrequests were interesting
13:31 iqualfragile and would have been great in minetest
13:31 Peacock well then maybe you should have pulled them in a timely manner
13:31 Peacock (you plural)
13:31 Exio4 when devs told him to split the 'lagfix' he went mad and merged all the pull requests
13:31 Peacock can hardly be angry at him for not wanting to stand still
13:31 Exio4 because it was next to WIP code
13:32 john_minetest Peacock: I went to #minetest-dev and asked if I should test any code. And suddenly we have a modstore.
13:33 john_minetest It is open source. If you want something you either have to do it yourself or find somebody who does it.
13:33 Exio4 Peacock: it isn't bad tho
13:33 Exio4 it will let proller dev his fork and continue it
13:33 Peacock and so proller is doing it himself as you say
13:33 iqualfragile Peacock: oh, wow, i just looked at some of the pull requests
13:33 iqualfragile the devs had every reason not to merge them
13:34 Peacock so you agree with the dev team but would still rather keep proller a prisoner here? lol
13:34 reactor lagfix?
13:35 iqualfragile Peacock: no, best solution would have been that proller just fixes his pull requests
13:35 Exio4 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/895
13:35 john_minetest Now check for bugs and merge it... https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1010
13:35 Peacock you're right that egos are in play here, which is probably why proller gave up fighting with the dev team and went his own way
13:36 iqualfragile Peacock: there was no fucking reason to fight
13:36 john_minetest It is ego to fork for no reason.
13:36 iqualfragile he could just have fixed his fucking pull requests
13:36 Exio4 he is free to do it
13:36 iqualfragile they were ugly
13:36 iqualfragile this whole thing is just a gigantic waset of effort
13:36 hmmmm proller going his "own way" has nothing to do with egos
13:36 john_minetest Peacock: You can seperate and test all the things changed in the pull request. If it works it will be pulled. Simple as that.
13:37 Peacock well you can either be butthurt about it or go on your merry way and work on MT, if freeminer comes up with anything good ittl surely be ported, license is still lgpl if i recall
13:37 john_minetest Open source - do it yourself or let it be.
13:37 hmmmm it was simply that he was going his own way the whole while.  95% of his pull requests were to make minetest a better 'game' but not a better engine
13:37 Exio4 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1010
13:37 Exio4 lolwut
13:38 Exio4 thought they were like 15 commits with proper names
13:38 iqualfragile Exio4: no, that one gives the wrong impression
13:38 iqualfragile he just raged at one point in time
13:38 iqualfragile and closed all his pullrequests
13:38 iqualfragile and then added that monster
13:38 iqualfragile ignoe the big one
13:38 Peacock hmmmm but all the people here would rather you guys keep arguing with proller indefinitely
13:38 iqualfragile look at the smaller ones
13:38 Exio4 i'm just saying proller went against what is the idea of minetest
13:38 iqualfragile they are realy low quality
13:39 Exio4 iqualfragile: 4-5 commits with two features
13:39 hmmmm so what do we do, make the engine inflexible and crappier so that we all get along?
13:39 iqualfragile Exio4: yes, i know
13:39 hmmmm was the linux kernel written that way?
13:39 iqualfragile some of those pull requests do not even make too much sense
13:39 iqualfragile https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/980
13:40 Peacock well i think him having his own fork to work on is the best thing for everyone, but im obviously in the minority on that lol
13:40 Exio4 i
13:40 Exio4 i'm good with it too
13:40 john_minetest hmmmm: Sure, there were people coming and making pull one million pull requests to make it look better. And then they merged everything into one and now it is called X.
13:40 iqualfragile some others did make sense and were merged like 979 and 983
13:40 Exio4 it means less unwanted features like weather (in its own state)
13:41 Exio4 ehm, i would like 980
13:41 john_minetest Weather is crappy.
13:41 Exio4 because well, null can be used for testing, but he had two features in that pull request
13:42 Exio4 It aims to make the game fun while trading off some bits of perfectionism.
13:42 Exio4 there
13:42 Peacock i dont personally like proller's features, but i don't need to like them to defend his right to fork and take it in whatever direction he thinks is right
13:42 Exio4 in freeminer's readme
13:42 hmmmm right, but just because somebody makes some feature doesn't mean we're obligated to merge it
13:43 hmmmm besides we needed some 'experimental' version like his fork that has all the features that were controverisal
13:43 john_minetest Peacock: Of course he has the right to do that. We only say that it is a bad idea and there are better ways to achieve the same thing.
13:43 Exio4 there isn't
13:43 Exio4 he sees minetest as a game, not an engine
13:43 Exio4 and not _game being somewhat "just another game"
13:44 hmmmm someone was talking about taking out all the weather stuff
13:44 Exio4 inb4 minetest is a game, deal with it
13:44 Exio4 some people was saying that
13:44 Exio4 like, c55 :P
13:44 hmmmm I can't say I disagree, if it could be reimplemented as a mod
13:44 Peacock i get the impression people think more would get done if he stuck around, i just think more arguments would be had lol
13:45 Exio4 some things won't ever get merged in minetest/master
13:46 Exio4 some others could, and others should be
13:46 john_minetest Peacock: Arguments are not bad.
13:46 hmmmm I think the directional volumetric fog thing would've made it in if it didn't abruptly cut off at a low visual horizon
13:46 john_minetest Peacock: But since there is no reason for that fork there won't be any arguments, right?
13:47 Exio4 but he mixed most of the features and made performance improvements depend on other changes in a commit that changes weather or features that never will get merged and so
13:47 Peacock there obviously is a reason if it exists
13:47 john_minetest Peacock: Previously you stated the contrary.
13:47 hmmmm those performance improvements didn't really improve performance
13:47 hmmmm they just throttled throughput on things like ABM and so on
13:47 Exio4 yeah
13:48 Peacock proller and xyz had their reasons for forking, they may not make sense to you personally, but that doesn't invalidate them
13:48 Exio4 but there was one that made some comments get priorited over other iirc
13:48 Exio4 he had it mixed with other features
13:52 Peacock dunno, you can like or dislike a fork if you want, what i dont get is attacking someone for the very act of forking
13:54 Peacock though when people say they hope or expect freeminer to crash and burn, i sense alot of bitterness/hostility in that, so don't tell me it's about prollers' ego :P
13:54 john_minetest We don't "attack". We say that it could be made more effective.
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13:55 john_minetest And I don't want to continue this closed-minded discussion.
13:55 Peacock i dont know how it could be more effective, it seems counterproductive from the get-go to have some devs working on an engine and other devs working on a game, from the sae source
13:55 Peacock *same
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13:56 Peacock closed-minded isn't the same thing as simply not agreeing with you
13:57 hmmmm this is a recurring pattern
13:57 reactor Psychology?
13:57 Peacock circular debates?
13:57 hmmmm there's something wrong with somebody's pull requests
13:57 hmmmm they don't get merged
13:57 hmmmm they get frustrated and quit
13:57 hmmmm then people talk about how the core devs are useless and minetest never gets anywhere
13:58 hmmmm prestidigitator, colored lighting, MirkeaKitsune, now proller
13:58 hmmmm and I'm sure there are more from before I started coming around here
13:58 Peacock well in every case they're told to fork, and now that it's done people still bitch about it
13:59 Peacock i think more gets done when time isn't constantly wasted arguing over said pulls
14:02 iqualfragile hmmmm: i think that there is a reason for this to happen
14:02 iqualfragile while the pull requests really were low quality
14:03 iqualfragile there often were no comments on them
14:03 iqualfragile i have mentioned this some times allready
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14:03 EvergreenTree o/
14:03 iqualfragile but: i think it would be best if the minetest-devs would meet every week for example saturdays and either merge or comment on or close 5 pull requests
14:04 iqualfragile hi EvergreenTree
14:04 Peacock well perhaps freeminer will perfect weather to such a point where it will in future be something you wanna port to MT, at least this way they get to try
14:04 reactor EvergreenTree: \o
14:06 sfan5 EvergreenTree: did you know you're a tree?
14:07 Exio4 wow
14:07 Exio4 he is a tree?
14:07 Exio4 and those trees outside are stalking me too...
14:07 iqualfragile yes, he is the first minetest-playing tree
14:07 EvergreenTree Gosh, I never thought I was a tree
14:07 Exio4 EvergreenTree: what are you doing here! D:
14:07 EvergreenTree [\sarcasm]
14:07 * Peacock tries hard to avoid jokes about having wood
14:07 * EvergreenTree barks at Peacock
14:07 Peacock touche
14:08 * iqualfragile punches EvergreenTree and crafst a pickaxe out of him
14:08 * iqualfragile collects the leaves to use as fuel later on
14:08 EvergreenTree Remember that second tree sfan5 planted on me?
14:08 Peacock wouldn't you have to put a stick up his arse to get a pickaxe?
14:08 EvergreenTree You knocked that one down
14:09 EvergreenTree I was beneath it.   >:)
14:09 * sfan5 plants a tree on EvergreenTree and puts a kitten on Exio4's head
14:09 EvergreenTree Peacock, plol
14:09 * iqualfragile realy is in the need of more wood for his new house and goes on a cutting spree
14:09 kaurdump joined #minetest
14:09 * EvergreenTree runs
14:09 Exio4 mkdir build && cd build
14:10 Exio4 > build already exists
14:10 Exio4 freeminer pls
14:10 Peacock pls = please?
14:10 Exio4 yeah
14:10 sfan5 !tell proller you merged tavb_playerlist
14:10 MinetestBot sfan5: I'll pass that on when proller is around
14:10 Exio4 also https://www.google.com/search?q=gooby+pls
14:10 sfan5 no, no
14:10 sfan5 no
14:10 Exio4 why not sfan5? 8)
14:11 sfan5 *sshs to vps and deletes entry from tell.sqlite*
14:12 Exio4 :(
14:12 Exio4 the menu is broken
14:13 Peacock no flapjacks for you
14:13 Exio4 the weather is weird in FM
14:13 kaurdump i just tried adding simple helicopter mod and it's failing https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=6183  any ideas? http://pastebin.com/N8Wmqw3J
14:13 sfan5 MinetestBot: reload tell
14:13 MinetestBot sfan5: <module 'tell' from '/home/user/mtbot/modules/tell.pyc'> (version: 2013-11-17 18:44:21)
14:14 Peacock kaur you forgot to rename the mod
14:14 Peacock (folder)
14:14 kaurdump i renamed it to heli
14:14 kaurdump it said [heli] in the post title
14:14 Peacock ...estaccount/minetest/bin/../​builtin/misc_register.lua:62: in function 'check_modname_prefix'
14:14 sfan5 !tell proller you merged tab_playerlist2 into freeminer, I didn't finish that feature yet; it segfaults when opening the playerlist (when set_playerlist was used on that player)
14:14 MinetestBot sfan5: I'll pass that on when proller is around
14:15 kaurdump what is it supposed to be named?
14:15 Peacock : Name helicopter:heli does not follow naming conventions: "modname:" or ":" prefix required
14:15 sfan5 name it 'helicopter'
14:15 Peacock i think it's supposed to be helicopter
14:15 kaurdump i'l try helicopter
14:15 kaurdump isn't posting convention [modname]
14:15 kaurdump ?
14:16 sfan5 yes
14:16 kaurdump k
14:16 sfan5 I changed it in the topic title
14:16 kaurdump ty
14:17 reactor Are there more vehicles coming?
14:17 kaurdump works now, thanks everyone
14:17 Peacock everyone says welcome
14:18 kaurdump next question, what's the best way to upgrade to the latest test version?  i'm not sure how i have minetest installed but it's in my user directory and i have a .minetest folder (linux install)
14:21 Megaf !seen Gronx
14:21 MinetestBot Megaf: gronx was last seen at 2013-11-12 22:20:28 UTC on #minetest
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14:23 kaurdump the last time i setup a new version of minetest i had to compile it b/c it didn't support 13.10 out of the box. do i still need to do that?
14:23 Exio4 >snowing
14:23 Exio4 >desert
14:23 Exio4 ok
14:24 kaurdump crazy weather
14:24 Exio4 and snowing though nodes
14:25 Peacock seems legit
14:27 Exio4 it finally stopped
14:28 Peacock well i'll be off, must fetch... provisions at the off-license (sure as shit not putting up this tree sober) :P
14:32 reactor snowing through nodes?
14:33 reactor Is snow massless particles?
14:35 reactor It's obviously not. How can it be going through nodes?
14:35 reactor ...assuming nodes is fermionic matter, too.
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15:17 Peacock well, they only had red ale, looks like we're having a communist party
15:19 Peacock https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7937345792/h7C7810B5/
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15:28 * EvergreenTree plants a sapling on sfan5's head
15:29 * EvergreenTree throws an apple at reactor for no reason
15:29 Peacock that means you can root his brain w/o sudo
15:29 * sfan5 takes the sapling transforms it into a kitten and puts the kitten next to EvergreenTree
15:29 EvergreenTree kitten tree?   0_o
15:29 EvergreenTree The best of both I guess
15:30 sfan5 you mean like a 猫木?
15:39 Peacock General Tao Chicken?
15:42 Peacock Ooo net split, with or without sprinkles?
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16:30 reactor https://d19nsh368mnho.cloudfront.net/wp​-content/uploads/2012/06/NewImage8.png
16:31 MrBeNNy joined #minetest
16:32 kaeza afternoons
16:32 Peacock here, have a few evenings too
16:36 jin_xi and my axe
16:48 kaeza jin_xi, I use rexona, but thanks anyway :P
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17:07 Peacock you guys hear about the Sheep market heist?
17:09 Peacock along with china banning bitcoins for financial transactions, they seemed to have dropped in value to aroud 700$US/coin
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17:32 kaeza [10:18:48] <john_minetest> minetest has a community. When there is a fork there is a split. mods don't have a community. If mods split nobody cares. <-- feel free to fork homedecor, technic, or mesecons
17:33 * sfan5 is pissed
17:34 sfan5 reactor: technically it should be 7 bottles of milk
17:35 reactor oh yes.
17:36 kaeza actually, nobody would care about that either
17:38 reactor joined #minetest
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17:38 Exio4 there are a lot of 'forks' or new mods based on other old mods
17:39 Peacock hell sometimes even new mods get fucked
17:39 Peacock *forked
17:40 Peacock i wish they'd have chosen a different word for that lol
17:40 rubenwardy Hi all
17:40 Peacock rubensandwich@
17:40 kaurdump i heard about that bitcoin stuff
17:40 Peacock *!
17:40 kaurdump maybe i'll finally buy one
17:40 Exio4 the difference is that a mod isn't 3 years of work and a hell lot of C++ code
17:41 rubenwardy Peacock, I actually added that to my highlight list :P
17:41 kaurdump not hte sheep thing
17:41 kaurdump but the china saying banks shouldn't touch it
17:41 rubenwardy Are you talking about freeminer?
17:41 sfan5 <kaurdump> i heard about that bitcoin stuff
17:41 Exio4 we're talking about dominating the world
17:41 rubenwardy oh ok
17:41 diemartin joined #minetest
17:41 kaurdump peacock was asking
17:42 rubenwardy You are a bit late if you want to do it before the Chinese, Exio4.
17:42 rubenwardy :P
17:42 Exio4 we're already on it
17:42 Peacock exio the language seems irrelevant, some mods require more work than others, and alot of mod forks are mostly minor tweaks :P
17:42 rubenwardy left #minetest
17:42 rubenwardy joined #minetest
17:43 rubenwardy I think it is good they forked Minetest
17:43 Exio4 Peacock: you can't compare a 100k lines of code program versus a mod
17:43 Peacock as for BTCs, i read somewhere that they were very big in China, though the recent anouncement by the gov't there cut their value by a quarter
17:43 kaurdump someone sent me a coinbase referral earlier this year and i bought like .0004 bitcoin to get the free $5 in bitcoin :P
17:43 kaurdump i'm pretty sure china's exchanges have the most volume
17:43 Peacock exio well wether something is 1K lines of code or 100K, the right to fork is the same, so i still dont get people being butthurt over freeminer lol
17:44 kaurdump it was more of a speculative investment for chinese ppl.  like gold 2.0
17:44 Exio4 i actually like the idea of freeminer
17:44 kaurdump but i think it's the bitcoin protocol itself that's special
17:44 rubenwardy time to make the UI for NBE!
17:44 Exio4 but it got a lot of code that isn't that well optimized :P
17:44 kaeza joined #minetest
17:45 rubenwardy Yeah, they put a lot of individual pull requests in, and have not smoothed the edges yet
17:45 Peacock well i dont personally like prollers' stuff, but i don't see anything wrong with him forking and doing it anyway, it's been suggested here enough times when other features were rejected
17:45 rubenwardy You dont like weather and water?
17:45 rubenwardy And math map generation?
17:46 Peacock me? no
17:46 rubenwardy "Project Drill": http://ubuntuone.com/72LtAf6EtfCMBK4dDqsoFg
17:46 rubenwardy (screenshot)
17:46 Peacock but still, i wouldn't stop him from doing it anyways in his own project
17:52 Peacock if particlespawners were better, i wouldn't object to weather mods
17:53 rubenwardy Do particle spawners use irrlicht particles, or sprites
17:53 Peacock even making a simple fountain with particle spawners is a pain in the ass
17:53 rubenwardy (Sapier^)
17:53 Peacock jeija rigged those up :P and i think they're entities/sprites
17:53 rubenwardy (or was it jeija?)
17:53 rubenwardy oh
17:54 rubenwardy They should be irrlicht particles!
17:54 rubenwardy :P
17:54 Peacock the fact they can be physical/not makes me think they're based on entities or written the same way as entities
17:55 sapier rubenwardy?
17:55 rubenwardy aheinecke, so they serialized across multiplayer? (ie: multiple people on the same server see them in the same place)
17:55 rubenwardy woops
17:55 rubenwardy *ahh
17:55 Peacock though for weather you'd need entities that remove themselves on collision
17:56 rubenwardy Ideally for performance, particles should be irrlicht particle systems or SPARK particles systems, and individual particles should not be serialized.
17:56 rubenwardy SPARK particles have collision
17:57 rubenwardy Sorry, sapier, I was thinking of jeija.
17:57 Peacock im not terribly familiar with the inner workings of the engine :P too many files and i'm too visual to keep track of them all :P
17:57 sapier no problem :-)
17:57 rubenwardy Neither am I, but I know irrlicht.
17:57 rubenwardy :P
17:58 Peacock im personally trying to figure out how they dev'd Space Engineers
17:58 Peacock i know it requires i have .NET 4 something installed, apart from that..??? lol
17:59 Peacock that games' got 6d gravity, moving nodes/groups of nodes
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18:01 rubenwardy What do you mean by "nodes"?
18:01 Peacock well you build your ships/stations out of nodes like you would in any voxel game, though each ship/station (group of nodes) have velocities and orientations
18:02 rubenwardy ah
18:02 rubenwardy So game play nodes, rather than scene nodes / objects
18:02 rubenwardy Interesing
18:02 rubenwardy *adds to wish list*
18:03 Peacock not sure how its' done honestly
18:03 Peacock that game wasn't dev'd on linux for irrlicht
18:06 PilzAdam joined #minetest
18:07 PilzAdam Hello everyone!
18:07 Calinou hi PilzAdam
18:08 PilzAdam https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/96f753a108600619f94015bf889a73d97e44ce3a
18:08 PilzAdam lol
18:08 Megaf joined #minetest
18:10 hmmmm i pointed that error out long before it was merged and i got ignored
18:11 specing hmmmm: next time bring your nyan cat with you
18:18 Peacock every man should get a semicolon exam :/
18:29 Jordach Calinou: found a setting in droid to enable 4x msaa
18:30 Jordach developer mode is where its at!
18:33 Calinou heh
18:33 Calinou it's slow enough already
18:33 Calinou I'm surprised there is even MSAA
18:34 troller sfan5, we already revert  tab_playerlist2 and merge  tab_playerlist
18:34 sfan5 troller: ah good
18:34 sfan5 you should probably merge the latest changes I did to tab_playerlist
18:35 troller and it does not work when unlimited distance disabled
18:35 sfan5 (vertical centering, using console_{color,alpha} for coloring)
18:35 troller ok
18:35 sfan5 that makes it more black
18:35 sfan5 (and more readable(
18:35 sfan5 s/(\(.+)\(/\1)/
18:36 rubenwardy uh, not regex!
18:36 troller hm.. now - working... but sometimes show only self
18:38 Exio4 [15:35:57] <sfan5> s/(\(.+)\(/\1)/
18:38 Exio4 [15:35:57] sfan5: (and more readable)
18:38 Exio4 awesum
18:39 PilzAdam troller, thats because the client currently gets the name only when the player object is send
18:39 PilzAdam which is kinda hacky...
18:39 sfan5 Exio4: do you expect me to make non-functioning regexes?
18:40 Exio4 no, but that the parser actually worked with a more than s/a/b regex
18:45 sfan5 m bgrtttgbbbb  t6zz6tgb     gtgn  fn ,o98
18:46 sfan5 oops
18:46 Exio4 eujdfwjn sfan5 sdfsdfu7sdifjshdfy
18:46 sfan5 s/.+//
18:46 Exio4 s/./&&&/
18:54 hmmmm hey guys, I need some feedback from other people on this
18:54 hmmmm how would you like custom humidity and temperature parameters to be handled?
18:55 hmmmm if it's exposed through the config file only and not saved along with the map, changing it would cause the biomes to be inconsistent
18:56 PilzAdam I like how its done currently
18:56 hmmmm this isn't as bad as the actual terrain becoming inconsistent of course, but i'd still think it's undesirable
18:56 hmmmm what.. hardcoded?
18:56 Peacock strippers, that would rock
18:56 hmmmm I don't like how it's done currently
18:56 PilzAdam isnt it saved in map_meta.txt?
18:56 hmmmm no, only mapgen parameters are saved in map_meta.txt
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18:56 hmmmm biome heat and humidity are only hardcoded at the moment and I need to change that
18:57 troller hmmmm, for first - make adjustable heat& humidity from config
18:57 troller noise params ^
18:57 hmmmm ....that's what we're talking about
18:57 troller make it like other noise params
18:58 troller ups
18:58 Peacock fedex
18:58 troller почта россии
18:58 troller hmmmm, saved to map meta
18:59 hmmmm what about everybody else?
18:59 OldCoder Hi
18:59 hmmmm do you think biome parameters should be saved to map meta, or only read from config?
19:01 PilzAdam hmmmm, what would be the benefit of not saving it in meta?
19:01 nore hmmmm, I reckon they should be saved with the map
19:01 hmmmm PilzAdam:  it makes things easier for me
19:02 Peacock was told meta is slow
19:02 Peacock for weather shit might not be good
19:02 PilzAdam Peacock, not node meta, map_meta.txt
19:02 hmmmm alright fine, I'll add it to the base MapgenParams I suppose
19:02 Peacock oh lol makes more sense
19:03 Peacock mgparams would make sense, along with a 'weather' flag to disable it completely
19:04 hmmmm this has nothing to do with the weather nonsense
19:04 hmmmm that's what I hate D:
19:04 Peacock then whats the humidity thing for?
19:04 hmmmm so at this point, for mapgen v6 at least, there are three separate humidities
19:04 hmmmm one for jungles, one for biomes which go unused, and then another one for proller's weather
19:05 hmmmm this has clearly gotten past a point where we need it to stop
19:05 hmmmm stop adding humidity crap without first consulting me
19:05 PilzAdam (you should say that in -dev)
19:05 PilzAdam (and write it in the dev wiki)
19:05 Exio4 ha
19:05 Peacock well im in the clear lol i always thought hardcoded weather was a mistake :P
19:06 hmmmm I can't combine any of them either without screwing things up
19:06 Exio4 also, about proller's weather in FM
19:06 Exio4 it was raining... sadly i was on a desert
19:06 Exio4 er, snowing
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19:07 Peacock yes it is snowing right now, though i just saw six firetrucks pass so i guess someone beat the odds :/
19:07 Exio4 lol?
19:07 hmmmm real life weather blows too right now, at least where I'm at :/
19:08 troller Exio4, raining in desert will be fixed soon
19:09 Peacock i hear its intense in the US, icestorms in Texas :/ been pretty mild in Quebec by comparison
19:11 Peacock its weird how winters are getting mellower in Canada and more intense in the US, and they call it global warming lol
19:12 EvergreenTree There was supposed to be 3~4 in. of snow where I live (midwest USA) but it hasn't come yer
19:12 EvergreenTree *yet
19:13 Peacock in the last few years the worst weather weve gotten is in february, usually it was from dec-march
19:13 Peacock like, -30c with high winds
19:13 EvergreenTree bleh
19:14 Peacock by the time you make it indoors your balls are gone
19:16 Peacock though that would explain why it's taken me till today to put up the tree lol
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19:17 EvergreenTree I haven't put up the tree yet, but I will today
19:18 sapier nothing compared to -32768° constant in minetest ;-)
19:18 EvergreenTree It's a fake tree, had it for years
19:18 Peacock i got one of those 7' slim trees (Fake)
19:18 EvergreenTree Ohwait, I could just use myself
19:18 EvergreenTree *facepalm*
19:19 EvergreenTree It is kind of boring being a christmas tree tho
19:19 Peacock though the biggest pain is the first few hours with the cat constantly climbing it lol once the lights are in im good lol
19:29 Pilcrow joined #minetest
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19:36 Pilcrow bit quiet right now, eh?
19:36 Megaf I FUCKING HATE WHEN I WRITE A MESSAGE ON MINETEST AND IT JUST FUCKING SEGS FAULT
19:37 Megaf specially when Im having a conversation about fixing what griefers done
19:37 Pilcrow never had that happen. you mean like a chat message?
19:37 Megaf yep
19:37 Megaf Pilcrow, are you using a recent version?
19:37 Megaf that never happened to me either, till two weeks ago
19:38 Pilcrow I'm on 0.4.8 stable for now...
19:38 Megaf Peacock, where do you live?
19:38 ShadowNinja Megaf: Run a debug version in a debuger and paste the backtrace.
19:39 Peacock Canuckistan
19:39 Peacock land of bountiful ale and poutine
19:40 Peacock (though mostly ale)
19:40 Pilcrow182 joined #minetest
19:41 Exio4 Megaf: without backtrace, you are just bothering yourself
19:42 Megaf Im just bothering myself playing minetest
19:42 Megaf it segfaulted again
19:42 Megaf $ rm -rf minetest-minetest-000da6b/
19:42 Megaf done
19:42 Megaf this fixed
19:42 Pilcrow182 joined #minetest
19:43 Megaf ShadowNinja, so, you mean compile it for debug instead of release?
19:44 Megaf -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Debug
19:44 ShadowNinja Megaf: Yes. That adds debuging symbols so that you get line numbers and the like.
19:44 Megaf like so
19:44 ShadowNinja Yep.
19:44 Pilcrow182 hmm, been having some weird 'net issues lately. my connection stuttered, and now IRC thinks I'm still online so it won't let me use my normal name...
19:45 Megaf compiling
19:45 Pilcrow182 I'm the same 'Pilcrow' who was just talking to you folks...
19:45 Megaf Pilcrow182, /nickserv release yournick yourpassword
19:45 Megaf or
19:45 Megaf /nickserv ghost nick paswword
19:46 Megaf assuming your nick is registrated
19:47 Megaf * Pilcrow has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
19:47 Megaf anyway, your nick is free again
19:47 Megaf ShadowNinja, ok, crashed again, what do I do now?
19:48 Exio4 did you run it under gdb?
19:49 Exio4 if yes, thread apply all bt full
19:49 Exio4 and paste the output
19:50 Pilcrow Thanks for the tip anyway, Megaf. this is the first channel I've ever frequented, so I know nothing of irc (commands and such)
19:50 Peacock cat's high up in the tree, cleaning the bristles :/
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20:05 Megaf Peacock, you can register you nick, so nobody else use it
20:05 Megaf ops
20:05 Megaf Pilcrow,
20:05 Megaf sorry Peacock
20:05 hmmmm erm
20:06 hmmmm A lot of people doing mods pick a random number for the value of something
20:06 hmmmm and that's it
20:06 hmmmm normally you'd want some value to be the most common, and then maybe then it gets rarer as the value gets higher
20:06 hmmmm so you know how you just do local number_of_foos = pr:next(min, max)?
20:06 hmmmm stop that
20:07 hmmmm do this instead
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20:08 hmmmm local number_of_foos = 0; for i = 0, N do number_of_foos += pr:next(min, max) end; number_of_foos = number_of_foos / N
20:08 hmmmm where N is some number at least 5 or 6
20:08 Pilcrow my linux has been acting strange lately...
20:08 hmmmm the higher N is, the more the distribution looks like a typical bell shaped curve
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20:13 Peacock foos are good, but bars are better
20:14 Pilcrow my journald is producing 'argument list too long' errors and freezing all file transactions...
20:15 Peacock sounds legit
20:15 Pilcrow that has nothing to do with minetest, of course, but it's annoying as heck since a hard reboot is the only way to get around it...
20:16 PilzAdam hmmmm, are you refering to any particular mod/game?
20:17 Pilcrow nah, it's an error with my linux os (Chakra, if anyone cares)...
20:17 Pilcrow oh you're talking to hmmmm, not just saying 'hmmmm'... by bad, lol
20:17 Pilcrow *my
20:18 hmmmm not in particular
20:18 Peacock pulseaudio: i think it was a general comment about most mods :P
20:18 Exio4 jackd > pulseaudio
20:19 PilzAdam woot!
20:19 PilzAdam https://forum.minetest.net/userlist.php?us​ername=&amp;show_group=-1&amp;sort_by=num_​posts&amp;sort_dir=DESC&amp;search=Search
20:19 PilzAdam <- #1
20:19 Peacock imagine enabling/disabling jackd, "jackd on", "jackd off" :/
20:20 Exio4 i don't disable jackd
20:20 Exio4 i use it all the time
20:20 Exio4 it is too awesome to disable
20:20 Peacock so you never jackd off?
20:21 Peacock lol
20:21 Exio4 kik
20:21 Exio4 lol
20:21 Pilcrow pulseaudio is a pain, but wonderful when it works. I never used jackd though.
20:21 Peacock allright i'll shut up now i have to put the lights in the tree anyways lol
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20:23 kaeza jojoa is #4 :|
20:23 PilzAdam where is my cake?
20:24 Pilcrow the cake is a lie. but congrats, lol. I wonder if you'd still be at the top if you could sort by number of TOPICS rather than posts...  :P
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20:33 Mati^1 hi
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20:37 magikfingerz Hi everybody! I have minetest 0.4.8 installed and can't see a buttor for "Local install" in the mods section... in another PC with version 0.4.7 I can see it... Somebody knows why?
20:38 FreeFull magikfingerz: I think it installs local by default
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20:39 magikfingerz FreeFull, Well that button allows me to select a mod file saved locally instead of use the repository...
20:40 sapier local install button was disabled because of win32 localization fixes broke localization for file select dialog
20:40 magikfingerz FreeFull, I use that button because my sometimes I haven't internet connection... so I can copy the mod zip file to my PC and install it using that button...
20:40 sapier we had to deside either delay 0.4.8 or remove the button till a proper fix is in place
20:41 Megaf VanessaE, are you there? I'd like some help wit world edit
20:41 PilzAdam magikfingerz, quote from source: "Disabled due to upcoming release 0.4.8 and irrlicht messing up localization"
20:41 Megaf with*
20:42 magikfingerz PilzAdam, sapier  OK, I understand... thanks a lot! I simply will install 0.4.7 until that button was enabled again in the next version... :)
20:43 hmmmm having that one feature realy is a dealbreaker?
20:43 hmmmm but look at all the other great stuff that 0.4.8 has....
20:44 sapier hmmmm guess we should hurry to fix it for 0.4.9
20:45 magikfingerz Well I use the button because I haven't found a reliable method to install mods manually... I unzipped tothe mods directory but I can't see it when I open minetest, that's why I use the "Local Install" button...
20:45 sapier are you sure that button was there in 0.4.7??
20:45 sapier thought modstore was added in 0.4.8?
20:46 magikfingerz sapier, I have that version right now(0.4.7) and I see it right now... :)
20:46 sapier ok ok :-)
20:46 sapier guess I got something wrong
20:46 hmmmm :)
20:46 hmmmm he is probably using a development version
20:46 magikfingerz hmmmm, you are right :D
20:47 hmmmm well magikfingerz, that's not really 0.4.7
20:47 hmmmm and it's also not supported
20:47 hmmmm there are things with that button that are broken which was the reason it was removed
20:47 hmmmm enjoy your broken stuff :/
20:47 magikfingerz hmmmm, well... that's the version what is worked for me hehe... :)
20:48 hmmmm you're a happy guy aren't you
20:48 magikfingerz hmmmm, sure, because minetest works great :D
20:48 hmmmm :)
20:50 Exio4 that :) is http://photos1.blogger.com/blogg​er/4772/1767/1600/62483229d.jpg
20:50 magikfingerz Thans a lot guys... I will play right now because my 8-year child wants to create a new world with a couple of mods activated...(thats why I play minetest, to play some adventures with him :D)
20:51 us_0gb For me, the text-input seeds were all I needed to convince me to upgrade.
20:51 us_0gb There are a lot of other good things too, but something as simple as that is usually my favorite new feature.
20:56 ShadowNinja Megaf: Type "bt" and "bt full" and ,,paste the results.
20:56 ShadowBot Use a pastebin like pastebin.ubuntu.com.
20:57 Megaf ShadowBot, where, when, why?
20:57 Megaf ShadowNinja,
20:57 Megaf it still working
20:57 ShadowNinja Megaf: What do you mean? You gust said it crashed.
20:57 kaeza lol Exio4
20:57 Megaf I said that a lot ago
20:59 PilzAdam does ,,paste work for everybody or just ShadowNinja?
20:59 ShadowNinja PilzAdam: Only me, because MinetestBot is arround and ShadowBot ignores everyone but me to prevent command conflicts.
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21:13 Peacock motherfucking fuck, 2/3's of my circuits don't work
21:14 Peacock all the really old ones made in this country still work, guess where the rest came from :P
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21:52 Megaf ShadowNinja,
21:52 Megaf Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
21:52 Megaf 0x08451c7b in irr::gui::CGUIFont::getDimension(wchar_t const*) const ()
21:52 PilzAdam Megaf, bt all
21:52 PilzAdam eh, bt full
21:52 Megaf too late, closed already
21:52 Megaf sorry
21:53 Zeg9 joined #minetest
21:53 PilzAdam well, what you just posted isnt very useful
21:53 Zeg9 Hello!
21:53 Megaf PilzAdam, ok, Next time I will give more info
21:54 Megaf its crashing when sending chat messages
21:54 Megaf either in the normal chat box either on the terminal like thing F10
21:58 EvergreenTree hello Zeg9 long time no see
21:58 Zeg9 Hi Evergreen
22:01 ShadowNinja Megaf: If the core was dumped you might be able to do "gdb bin/minetest core".
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22:05 harrison minetest from the debian repo crashes when the Public Serverlist checkbox is checked
22:06 sfan5 harrison: provide a backtrace
22:08 harrison http://pastebin.com/wru2Qfc6
22:09 sfan5 that doesn't help
22:09 harrison i am not agitating for a fix
22:09 sfan5 you probably need a debug build
22:09 ShadowNinja LuaJIT being helpfull with it's exception mangling again.
22:09 harrison i am just reporting
22:15 Exio4 anyone playing clickingbad?
22:16 Peacock i prefer clickinggood, its more christian
22:16 fixed joined #minetest
22:17 Exio4 ew :P
22:17 Peacock lol
22:17 Peacock christ compels you! :P
22:21 ShadowNinja Exio4: I played it, and "beat/won" it. (By having everything)
22:27 Exio4 ShadowNinja: i'm still playing it
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22:32 Exio4 i want to get the a whole month playing achiv
22:32 john_minetest lol: http://bric-a-brac.org/humour/i​mages/animaux/chien_ecrase.jpg
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23:00 Megaf It would be nice a sponge thing to dry the water of
23:00 Megaf like in the old minecraft
23:00 paramat Hi hmmmm, concerning biomes in MGV7, may i suggest per node calculation of biome instead of per column? Temperature and humidity both being 2D noise plus a linear fall with altitude ...
23:03 kaeza !g minetest sponge
23:03 MinetestBot kaeza: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=4642
23:03 kaeza Megaf, ^
23:08 paramat indeed we have our own brand of sponge
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23:11 hmmmm paramat, yes
23:12 hmmmm you see I ran into the biome column selection problem when I was adding 'top nodes' under ridges
23:12 paramat good :)
23:12 john_minetest while true; do mpv http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPFxHGGaGmM --vid=no; done
23:12 hmmmm the thing is, each of those biome calculations were O(n) so I couldn't sacrifice performance
23:12 hmmmm with the new way I factor height into the equation though, I have O(1) performance since I am able to precompute all biome values and check it from a look up table
23:13 hmmmm so I can do a biome calculation per-node
23:13 paramat will you be using biome points and voronai diagrams?
23:13 hmmmm I am already doing that
23:13 paramat okay
23:14 hmmmm I don't want biomes to be completely per-node though
23:14 hmmmm it doesn't make much sense to go upward and then all of a sudden it's a tundra biome whereas a couple nodes below it was a rainforest biome
23:15 hmmmm there could be a temperature falloff with height, certainly
23:15 hmmmm but it won't change everything
23:15 paramat humidity falloff will help
23:16 zat Could not find EKEY_CODE, using orig. X11 keycode instead: 25
23:16 zat ???????????
23:16 paramat that will help place biomes where they should be
23:17 paramat i was about to say 3D biome dither/blend is beautiful but i saw on -dev you don't like biome blend :)
23:17 paramat 3D dither in ice is pretty
23:18 hmmmm i know
23:18 hmmmm I need to figure out how to mix liquid dust nodes between biomes
23:18 hmmmm i don't know how generalized it should be
23:19 hmmmm i have no idea what i should be doing because the only thing i have to go off of is minecraft, and their biomes are rather limited in terms of features
23:19 hmmmm since everything is hardcoded
23:19 paramat 'biomes o' plenty' in MC has 87 new biomes
23:20 paramat i'm seeing those biomes on Sips ans Sjin and Yogscast videos
23:20 hmmmm yeah but the node that forms between cold biomes and warm biomes on top of water are always ice nodes
23:20 hmmmm i think they dither ice?
23:21 hmmmm that's a hardcoded effect though
23:22 Megaf kaeza, thanks
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23:28 hehe Hello
23:32 john_minetest cya
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23:34 paramat hmmmm i also saw on -dev you are having troubles with dust nodes at y = 48 chunk boundaries ... i can certainly sympathize
23:35 paramat my own solution though is fairly rough and radical and may create other problems
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23:50 hmmmm my approach is to use as much of the information available to me to guess what the nodes below me are
23:50 hmmmm which works half of the time
23:56 Jordach paramat, get on with it!  :D
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