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IRC log for #minetest, 2013-11-08

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Time Nick Message
00:01 paramat do you know how to upgrade to the new perlin map functions? i can help you out, edit your mod if you want
00:02 Peacock didn't notice that hte perlins had changed, i noticed the ore choosing part changed, though im not sure how my 7 ores fit into that structure
00:02 * paramat is in full effect! ;}
00:02 Peacock heck i might not even be done defining ores, im up to 6 or 7 machines lol;
00:03 Peacock i may need to add a non-energy crystalline
00:04 paramat my mods are very perlin heavy ... multiple 3D noise which is very processing intensive, so the new faster perlin functions will help a lot
00:04 Peacock well vmanip helped alot with the old version too, since it's asteroids and not a full landscape
00:05 Peacock ill have to do a side-by-side to get the new perlins in, will that change my current map though?
00:05 paramat umm i think it will be a seamless match
00:06 paramat ... across chunk boundaries if you upgrade mid-world
00:07 Peacock cool, the last big hurdle will be finding solid ground to dump new players on lol
00:08 Peacock though i could probably register a few positions in a file as the asteroids generate
00:08 Peacock either that or pick a static spawn point and let the players build out /explore
00:14 paramat btw non-flowing liquid is done by this in 0.4.7 'liquid_alternative_flowing = "air",' in the node definition
00:14 paramat (0.4.7stable), in 0.4.7dev: 'liquid_range = 0'
00:15 Peacock well i think its the range that causes the lag and cpu load, it only started when it was added
00:15 proller _range prepared for remove
00:15 Peacock good luck with PA :p
00:16 proller he agreed
00:16 Peacock ah good
00:16 kaeza why?
00:16 Peacock honestly i could see the difference between range and viscosity
00:16 Peacock *couldn't
00:16 proller its will be replaced with "levels"
00:16 proller how it works can see in -next
00:17 Peacock well can't we just leave the normal liquids classic?
00:17 proller they leave
00:17 Peacock there was like, 0 lag before, you could make waterfalls and whatnot
00:17 proller but you can define number of levels in any liquid
00:17 proller no lag with finite now
00:18 Peacock yeah but i dont want finite and i dont want classic liquids to behave like it lol
00:18 proller and with finite you make dynwmic waterfalls
00:18 proller nobody removes classic
00:18 Peacock and this gentlemen, is why i moved on to a game with 0 liquids lol
00:18 paramat so liquid with 2 levels will look abstract and blocky?
00:19 paramat ... and process fast?
00:19 proller paramat, no, they use same render as now
00:19 proller VERY fast
00:19 Peacock my algea farm takes ice or snow and converts it to water in texture only lol
00:19 paramat proller, please post more screenshots of your stuff :)
00:19 proller also 1-level liquid already used for sand and gravel
00:20 proller try it yourself https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=7033
00:20 proller ^ its all-stuff-in-one
00:20 paramat i saw your old video of drifting clouds, it is awesome
00:20 proller with -game
00:20 proller no, its not mine
00:20 proller its 2-years old and unmerged
00:21 paramat ah okay
00:21 proller but my goal near this video
00:21 proller clouds too hard for now, need client-server sync and more
00:21 proller other already works
00:21 paramat ah because clouds are client side
00:22 Peacock i wish minetest had a tool like remastersys for making custom builsd
00:22 Peacock *builds
00:23 kaeza not everyone cares/wants finite liquids
00:24 paramat also proller, please could you fix the floatlands in indev :} they are a bit embarassing for me because of the flat sides and the non-continuity across chunk boundaries :} its a very quick and easy fix
00:24 kaeza for whatever reason
00:24 proller paramat, show diff ;)
00:25 proller kaeza, old will be always here
00:25 proller but if you want dynamice weather - only finite support it
00:26 Peacock what kaeza said (+1)
00:27 Peacock the more certain things are forced onto people/modders/server admins, the more they're inclined *not* to update MT
00:28 proller all my new stuff disabled by default
00:34 paramat proller, posts 36 to 38 here https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?pid=76760#p76760 i did warn you about the flat edges heh :D
00:34 proller i tried to fix as explained, but nothing
00:34 proller was flat again
00:35 paramat oh okay
00:35 proller can you try change-build?
00:35 paramat i'll look at your code and provide you with diff
00:36 proller end of mapgen_indev.cpp
00:36 paramat SEEDDIFF1 + minp.x * 100 + minp.y * 100 + minp.z * 100
00:37 paramat seed should be dependant on y only
00:37 paramat (seeds)
00:38 paramat i'll go look at the code ...
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00:45 Peacock well im gonna go download some beer before tackling the litter, dishes and custom craft guide XD bbl
00:48 EvergreenTree joined #minetest
01:05 paramat where in the code are seeds defined for floatlands?
01:05 proller minetest.conf
01:05 OldCoder Hmm
01:06 OldCoder Somehow I missed Sapier again
01:07 paramat thanks, i mean where did you add the x, y and z dependancy of the seeddiff (seeddiff = SEEDDIFF1 + minp.x * 100 + minp.y * 100 + minp.z * 100)?
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01:13 proller something in mapgen_indev.cpp:140
01:13 * paramat looks
01:16 MinetestBot GIT: 4Evergreen4 commited to minetest/minetest: Add wrapper for minetest.rotate_and_place. 1d856b734b 2013-11-07T17:14:26-08:00 http://git.io/45fsjw
01:18 MinetestBot GIT: 4Evergreen4 commited to minetest/minetest_game: Add 6d facedir to logs. 3653859961 2013-11-07T17:16:54-08:00 http://git.io/7YhBPQ
01:19 * EvergreenTree Dances dances joyfully around the room
01:23 EvergreenTree Update:  Minetest now has horizontal logs!   (thanks to VanessaE's 6d facedir prediction routine)
01:23 paramat cool
01:24 VanessaE :D
01:24 EvergreenTree I wasn't expecting to create a function for just making horizontal logs, but whatevs
01:25 Peacock damnit, finished all the dishes, cleaned the kitchen.... found my wife's coffee cup behind her screen lol
01:25 VanessaE actually, your wrapper will probably find some use elsewhere too
01:27 paramat its good to see hmm-mm helping to get 0.4.8 out fast
01:27 Peacock i think he just got sick of putting it off lol
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01:27 Peacock everytime it was about to come out, bam, new milestone lol
01:27 kaeza ^
01:28 Peacock though i dont know how many bugs they expect to fix with a 1 week feature freeze, or if anything at all will even get done during that period lol
01:28 kaeza 0.4.7 is what, half a year old?
01:29 OldCoder Does kahrl httpfetch make it in?
01:29 VanessaE almost, kaeza
01:29 VanessaE 5 months, thereabouts
01:29 kaeza we are not Debian!™
01:29 VanessaE haha
01:30 us|0gb Wait, we're Debian? Hold the release then. We aren't due for it yet.
01:30 * Peacock roots for debiarch, or archian XD
01:31 VanessaE ha
01:31 VanessaE ha!
01:31 Peacock something with the testing and package management of debian, but the up-to-dateness of arch
01:32 Peacock unfortunately my dists thread didn't reveal an OS i haven't tried :( lol
01:33 paramat proller, 'mapgen_indev.cpp:140' defines the perlin offset, nothing to do with seed :) i'll continue to search ... thanks for the help
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01:39 us|0gb Debian's testedness and Arch's cutting edgeness are opposites. Asking for both is like asking for a pixel that is both #ff0000 and #00ff00.
01:40 Peacock oo, slackware 14.1 released, critics reassessed StarShip Troopers, and the ECB cut it's interest rate
01:40 Peacock ogb well in other words, id take an arch version that makes sure they don't push changes that will instantly bork my system
01:40 zat us|0gb: what about #ffff00
01:41 Peacock what looks like a few innocuous updates end up being a wasted saturday night
01:41 us|0gb That isn't both colors though. It's an addition of those values.
01:42 Peacock though i guess arch assumes most of their users don't have social/sex lives lol
01:52 Peacock lol http://www.reddit.com/r/talesfromtech​support/comments/1g5wny/security_and_​hubris_or_what_drove_me_to_perform/
01:53 zat Peacock: sounds like you have a problem with Arch=
01:53 zat ?
01:53 Peacock *had* im using #! tho thats got its' own drawbacks (debian repos ) lol
01:54 zat #!?
01:55 Peacock crunchbang
01:56 zat so what waas your issue with Arch?
01:57 Peacock the dual nature of pacman/aur repos, and updates borking shit almost each time
01:57 paramat i wanna fix floatlands in time for 0.4.8 =/
01:58 zat Peacock: like what?
01:58 zat sounds like could not handle its package management?
01:59 Peacock like what? like glibc, like x, like a number of different things that drops me to shell instead of login screen lol
01:59 paramat ... so far my guess is something to do with seeddiff, farscale, farspread and how they interact ...
02:00 zat so you could not setup a graphical session correctly Peacock?
02:00 Peacock thats not my job, when i run sudo pacman -Syu i expect shit to be working when i restart
02:01 zat that was your problem... expecting it
02:01 Peacock yeah, and thats why people who's time is worth something go with the commercial offerings too :P
02:01 zat Pacman gives notes as it updates, telling you what files you must mix in order to update your configs.
02:02 zat or people that just cannot handle a real operating system ;)
02:03 us`0gb joined #minetest
02:03 Peacock a real operating system just works, it requires less attention and time, not more of both
02:04 Peacock people who use their computers for work, games, or doing something other than hacking at bash scripts, prefer a functional setup over one that requires constant fixing ;)
02:05 Peacock when devs get that, linux may be taken more seriously in the consumer and corporate markets :P (other than server setups)
02:05 EvergreenTree Well, I'm out.   It was a very productive day
02:05 zat I must be crazy, for I have user Archlinux for five years for everything.
02:05 zat (And my mother too)
02:10 Peacock mother/aunt/grand-mother, ive heard that from every linux apologist :P doesn't change the fact they have to wait for the l3E7 expert to return to update the system lol
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02:13 zat well, I have not updated her system in two years now that you say
02:14 zat and whatever you say... it doesn’t change the fact that they will always expect someone else to do it for them even on “simple” things like windows.
02:14 zat where it is usual to want a fresh install rather than an update.
02:14 zat and where system updates are scary and sluggish lol
02:18 Peacock dunno, ive had the exact opposite experience, when i first started using linux, i tried to convert people too, and they all invariably asked me to switch them back within a week
02:18 Peacock be it shitty flash, shitty office rendering, shitty graphics, bad itunes replacements lol
02:18 zat users are resistant to changes
02:18 zat they feel strange in something else that is not exactly what they are used to
02:19 Peacock thats what the gnome devs said and look who still uses that lol
02:19 zat A lot of people use gnome
02:19 zat what makes you think otherwise
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02:19 Peacock no one i know in these circles lol
02:19 zat that is your circle
02:20 zat my girlfriend, right next to me now, she uses gnome
02:20 Peacock aiight, ask the on the forums who uses gnome3
02:20 zat and like five more people I know
02:20 zat your experience is no more relevant than mine
02:20 kaeza first time I introduced my sister to Linux, I shower her a VBoxed Ubuntu under Windows... the thing crashed so hard that she was like "fuck no"
02:20 Peacock my sister, mother and friends all hated it
02:21 zat like Windows didn crash LOL
02:21 Peacock one told me "linux is for people with more time than money on their hands" lol
02:21 Sokomine anyone here who know enough of blender to rotate a model?
02:21 Peacock XP and 7 never crashed for me, i dualboot
02:21 zat Sokomine: there is a button for that, maybe the R key as shortcut I think.
02:21 zat Peacock: Archlinux never crashed for me, XP always crashed for me.
02:21 zat My experience has more relevance. ;)
02:21 Peacock the only reason i tried linux was because WinME seriously sucked, but that was a long time ago, and while windows has advanced, lin has been somewhat going in circles
02:22 Sokomine hmpf. i don't know blender. i just need a model rotated. and i don't know weather 90 or 270 degree would be right
02:22 zat In respect of what Peacock?
02:22 Sokomine if you're happy with windows, then use it. as long as you force no one else to use that *censored* :-)
02:22 Peacock in respect to constantly swapping components that work to the detriment of bugs and missing features
02:22 zat Peacock: your experience.
02:23 zat highly biased also
02:23 Peacock yeah and what experiences do the zealots use? lol
02:23 Peacock biased because i dualboot? lol
02:23 * Peacock senses M$ shill comment coming
02:23 zat biased because you only present your opinion as the absolute truth for everything
02:23 zat Your sense fail, sorry
02:23 Peacock no i present my opinion, your confusing me for the FSF lol
02:24 zat I don’t even talk about MS, it doesn’t worry me.
02:24 deltib joined #minetest
02:25 Peacock you implied that windows crashes (alot?), though im not sure that compensates for updates completely borking a system or missing features
02:25 zat Peacock: your experience~
02:25 Peacock yeah, so? lol quit saying, what are you basing all your own statements on?
02:25 zat I have not had a buggy update in probably two years.
02:26 Peacock in your experience
02:26 zat Why is your experience more relevant than mine?
02:26 zat ;)
02:26 Peacock well you keep saying my opinions are based on my experience, im simply returning the favour :-)
02:27 zat Well, so give me an objective argument.
02:27 Peacock your grandma or mine? because no one i introduced to linux though it was objectively better then what they had before
02:28 zat that is not objective
02:28 zat you only talk about experiences
02:28 zat and experiences of inexperienced people that are scared of new things naturally
02:29 Peacock so anyone that doesn't like linux is either a moron or scared, gee where have i heard that before lol
02:29 zat I didnt say that, you are saying that.
02:29 Peacock im platform agnostic, im simply pointing out that windows has caught up in the last few version while linux has been somewhat stuck in a ditch, with even the newer android overtaking it in popularity
02:30 dafull97 joined #minetest
02:30 dafull97 Craigy here?
02:30 Peacock linux isn't new btw lol
02:31 deltib joined #minetest
02:31 Peacock linux (1991), a unix-like (1969) system
02:33 Peacock and i dont totally hate arch, i like it for awhile, i just wish it wasn't a high maintenance girlfriend lol
02:34 zat Peacock: Windows has caught up... I would not call it that considering that Microsoft heavily invests in making manufacturers sell computers with Windows preinstalled so users learn it is the standard.
02:34 zat To misinform users and make privative file formats so they can make look other office suits are not good.
02:35 Peacock what do hardware manufacturers have to do with the OS itself being more usable and stable than it was in the 90s?
02:35 zat All systems become more usable/stable with time.
02:36 Peacock well i had the best of times with lin around 06-07 (old-school ubuntu), its been slowly but steadily increasing in maintenance requirements since
02:37 zat The funny thing, users are extremely critical and intolerant about issues happening in GNU/Linux systems, like they are unforgivable.
02:37 Peacock and btw, linux computer sold in store cost more than windows computers because they can put a shitton of bloatware on win computers to more than subsidize the cost of the license
02:37 zat They don’t complain that Windows normally degrades and has to be installed from zero every few months.
02:38 Peacock what you think windows and mac don't take shit for their bugs? lol it's only lin devs that say "its free, you cant complain" lol
02:38 zat what are bugtrackers for then
02:38 Peacock every few months... what do you think distro-hopping is? either shit got borked or the user got fed up with whatever dist they were using
02:39 us`0gb That's why I kept switching.
02:39 Peacock i seriously do hope linux gets better, but i also recognize so long as it's fanboys are unwilling to look at it critically, shit won't get fixed
02:40 us`0gb I plan to switch again once Guix is stabilized.
02:40 Peacock Guix, thats a new one?
02:40 us`0gb It is indeed.
02:40 us`0gb Not yet ready for everyday use though.
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02:42 Peacock im holding out hope for a slightly more stable version of archbang, or a truly freer debian (or nonfree depending who you ask)
02:42 Peacock i still have a hard time with mint :/
02:42 zat The only thing I criticize, I do not like most desktop environments.
02:43 Peacock seems xfce on *buntu is slower than xfce on debian or arch
02:43 zat other than that, what can I criticize?
02:43 SmugLeaf xfce on gentoo
02:43 SmugLeaf master race
02:43 Peacock well zat, ive been using linux for nigh onto 10 or 12 years, ive had a long list of issues over those years but i wont start posting it all here now for everyone's sake lol
02:44 zat I really cannot believe you have been for 10 or 12 years and you call it linux.
02:44 zat The name of the OSes are the name of the distributions.
02:45 SmugLeaf what
02:45 SmugLeaf no
02:45 SmugLeaf linux is linux
02:45 Peacock its linux, not GNU linux, not Ubuntu, its linux lol
02:45 SmugLeaf well specifically linux is the kernel
02:45 zat Right SmugLeaf, just the kernel.
02:45 Peacock yes if people want to be anal, linux is the kernel, but none of it would exist without linux lol
02:45 SmugLeaf you could kind of get away with refering to the userspace as the distro name
02:45 Peacock thats why we call it linux
02:46 Peacock distro is simply a combination of different components
02:46 SmugLeaf since the distros use such different userspace configs
02:46 Peacock most of which hinge on the package manager and DE
02:46 zat Peacock: there are distros that can optionally use BSD or Hurd.
02:46 us`0gb Actually, GNU existed long before Linux and convinced Torvalds to release Linux under the GNU license.
02:46 kaeza HURRD
02:46 Peacock yeah ive heard of Arch Hurd, never tried that tho
02:46 SmugLeaf hurrrrrrr
02:46 SmugLeaf portage on freebsd
02:46 SmugLeaf gentoo master race
02:47 zat Originally GNU project was going to use Hurd as kernel.
02:47 Peacock yes GNU existed before linux, but it still took longer to finish hurd
02:47 SmugLeaf does the GNU kernel boot anything yet?
02:47 SmugLeaf it's still dead right?
02:47 Peacock and torvalds didn't really care about GNU
02:47 Peacock "I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and professional like gnu)" - Linus
02:48 Menche joined #minetest
02:48 SmugLeaf shit
02:48 SmugLeaf I started with linux in highschool
02:48 SmugLeaf that makes it close to 10 years now
02:48 SmugLeaf i'm so old
02:48 SmugLeaf ;_;
02:48 SmugLeaf RIP binge drunking
02:48 Peacock though that didn't stop stallman from muscling in on the credit and trying to take over a few critical projects like glibc (http://www.redhat.com/archives/redhat-i​nstall-list/2001-August/msg00346.html)
02:49 us`0gb Hurd works sort of, but not really. BUt you can't say "without Linux, we wouldn't have" any more than you can say that about GNU.
02:49 us`0gb GNU contributed much more to the system.
02:49 Peacock GNU needs linux more than linux needed GNU, that's what it boils down to :P
02:49 SmugLeaf ^
02:49 us`0gb And the GNU project is the one that assembled the pieces, nit the Linux team.
02:49 Peacock without Linus, none of it would have taken off
02:49 zat If there was no linux, there would be other kernel.
02:49 SmugLeaf android uses a non-GNU userspace
02:50 SmugLeaf zat: how old was the GNU userspace before linus made a kernel?
02:50 Peacock and i wouldn't place my faith in a man like stallman who thinks paedophilia, necrophilia, and eating shit off your feet is OK
02:50 zat SmugLeaf: I dont know
02:51 us`0gb Actually, the GNU team fought tooth and nail to make this happen. Linux was only the final piece of the puzzle.
02:51 dafull97 us`0gb
02:51 dafull97 pm please
02:51 us`0gb Peacock: I think some of what Stallman thinks is garbage. But that doesn't mean it all is.
02:51 Peacock i think he's mentally ill
02:52 Peacock i also think the FSF is a cult, its got a guru, dogma, followers, and it asks for money
02:52 Peacock neither the leader or it's followers seem terribly mentally stable
02:52 zat Peacock: so what are the problem with GNU/Linux distros?
02:52 zat only how stable are the packages they push to repos
02:52 zat ?
02:53 us`0gb The open source group asks for money as well. I think the Linux FOundation does too.
02:53 Peacock yeah but all the zealots i meet are from the fsf
02:53 Peacock thats the difference between a nonprofit and a cult
02:54 us`0gb I've seen many Windows zealots. I haven't watched for Linux ones, but it's not only GNU.
02:54 Peacock linux, linus, BSD licenses, they believe in mixing and coexistence, the fsf and the gpl don't lol
02:54 kaeza ^
02:54 zat Wat, the worst fanboys ever are Free-BDS and Python ones.
02:55 zat BSD*
02:55 Peacock funny, even though windows makes up a much bigger market share, i meet fewer of it's zealots than i do linux zealots, (not saying they dont exist, i also hate mac fanbois)
02:55 us`0gb Peacock: That's because of what we believe. We believe that those things are bad, and therefore, mixing with them isn't something we desire.
02:56 kaeza "bad"?
02:56 zat Windows users are normally users that cannot define what operating system means.
02:56 kaeza you make it sound way worse than it is
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02:56 Menche I once told my uncle, who uses Windows, that I use linux. His question: "Linux? Is that sort of like Explorer?"
02:57 us`0gb Actually, I was putting it lightly, not making it out like it was as big of an issue as I feel it is.
02:57 Peacock ogb: key word being "believe", and thats why i treat you guys as a cult lol
02:57 zat Menche: once I was asked: “I heard you use a Windows linux, how is it like?”
02:57 Peacock notions of good, evil, bad, good, those are religious concepts
02:57 kaeza yes, I won't say that M$ are some kind of holy man,
02:58 Peacock naw, MS is a business, like mac, they're in it for the  money, does that make them evil?
02:58 us`0gb I used that word to seem less like I'm telling you off.
02:58 us`0gb It's not about money.
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02:58 kaeza but you are putting the hobbyist programmers, who release binaries but not the source ("freeware") in the same bag as the "evil" people
02:58 zat Not evil exactly, but their strategy to try keeping market share are bad.
02:58 dmitryk1 Hi All
02:58 Peacock yeah well like alot of guys before you, you talk to me about beliefs, good guys and bad guys, it all sounds terribly dogmatic
02:58 zat Microsoft likes misinforming users.
02:58 kaeza dmitryk1, hi
02:59 us`0gb kaeza: Exactly.
02:59 Peacock zat most people live in countries where there are monopolies over one industry or another
02:59 zat Peacock: ????
02:59 us`0gb Peacock: Morality is subjective. I don't know what you want in that regard.
02:59 dmitryk1 Has anybody debug minetest in VS2010? Can help me?
03:00 Peacock Russia is an energy producer, do you decry Gazprom?
03:00 zat I cannot keep discussing now, I need to sleep.
03:00 Peacock the US is IT and defense, obviously theyre going to have big players too
03:00 Peacock *and finance
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03:01 zat joined #minetest
03:01 zat EH sorry, before a leave...
03:01 kaeza dmitryk1, what problems are you having
03:01 kaeza ?
03:01 kaeza hi again zat :P
03:01 zat Please someone try my damn new rollback!!!!!
03:02 zat kaeza: ::)
03:05 dmitryk1 kaeza, I get all sources from git, get irrlicht jthread and zlib, get from old and run minetest.vcproj and get errors about not found some file
03:06 dmitryk1 example: error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'irrTypes.h': No such file or directory
03:07 dmitryk1 but it put in minetest\irrlicht\irrlicht-1.8\include\irrTypes.h
03:08 dmitryk1 May send me working vss project and sourses?
03:09 dmitryk1 I have error after install mods and want look why
03:11 kaeza well, you could have started with that
03:11 dmitryk1 I very small understand c++ and hope can find error reason
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03:11 kaeza what is the error you get from the mods (and which mod(s) are we talking about)?
03:11 us-0gb joined #minetest
03:11 kaeza (look at the end of debug.txt)
03:12 Peacock i usually get warnings about irrtypes.h too when i compile, but it proceeds anyways :S
03:12 dmitryk1 In thread 2448: ..\..\src\minetest\src\nodedef.cpp:500: CNodeDefManager::set: Assertion 'c <= 0xfff' failed. Debug stacks: DEBUG STACK FOR THREAD 2448: #0  main
03:13 kaeza dmitryk1, too many mods installed
03:13 kaeza (actually, too many items defined)
03:14 dmitryk1 I find htis in forum byt hope what it my mistake
03:14 Peacock didn;t they pull V's fix for the node count?
03:15 kaeza Peacock, I think that only fixes the "dummy" nodedefs for unknown items
03:15 kaeza not "real" items
03:15 kaeza not sure :P
03:15 zat ok thx
03:15 zat cya
03:16 kaeza night zat
03:17 kaeza dmitryk1, can you paste a listing of your mods ( http://pastebin.com ) ?
03:17 dmitryk1 i  read about around 2000 nodes. it very small
03:18 dmitryk1 kaeza, directory?
03:18 kaeza minetest\mods\
03:23 dmitryk1 http://pastebin.com/RW4yxGRY
03:24 Peacock tabarnacle, thats a full file list lol
03:24 VanessaE uch.  backslashes for path elements....  a travesty.
03:24 VanessaE :)_
03:25 NekoGloop VanessaE, I'm taking an operating systems class, and after the DOS section? I agree.
03:25 kaeza wait...
03:25 kaeza 0.4.5 ???
03:25 VanessaE NekoGloop: yep.  Now you know why they went that way.  stupid, wasn't it?
03:25 us-0gb I remember 0.4.5. That one was a good one.
03:25 Peacock and why run minetest from \Backup\?
03:25 Peacock 0.4.6 was the best :P
03:25 NekoGloop let's use -
03:26 Peacock NG you should do network admin, lots of jobs
03:26 us-0gb I liked 0.4.5 better than 0.4.6, but I like 0.4.8 (?) better than both.
03:26 Peacock or android dev, but ugh, java lol
03:26 VanessaE the latest homedecor and moretrees now require git from this evening btw.  moreblocks and ilights will also if my pulls go into those two repos :)
03:26 dmitryk1 :) it's global backup
03:26 Peacock odd, i had more bugs/performance issues with 0.4.5, but 0.4.6 was smooth as data's bottom
03:27 kaeza dmitryk1, try updating to some latest build for windows
03:28 kaeza this seems to be one of the most recent: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=1523
03:28 kaeza ...
03:28 kaeza dat avatar sfan5
03:28 dmitryk1 VanessaE, I look like you mods
03:29 Peacock he should go with one of the my little pony avatars XD
03:29 dmitryk1 kaeza, I download latest version... Or no?
03:29 VanessaE you what?
03:29 kaeza dmitryk1, yes
03:29 Peacock btw, one of the moderators handy with GIT, what would you say about an archive thread of the various minetest versions?
03:31 kaeza at least PA and sfan have an archive AFAIK
03:31 kaeza including some forks
03:32 dmitryk1 VanessaE, sorry for my english :)
03:32 VanessaE it's ok :)
03:33 Peacock or maybe the minetest website could have previous version DLs of the source?
03:34 VanessaE It used to.
03:34 Peacock alot of projects do
03:35 Peacock id like to test my space game on 0.4.6 but i dont know the appropriate git hieroglyphs lol
03:39 dmitryk1 I found 0.4.7 minetest. Is it only 2000 nodes too?
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03:40 dmitryk1 0.4.7 is crash too
03:41 dmitryk1 is has plan to lager max nodes count?
03:42 dmitryk1 and what about VS project?
03:51 Peacock try removing some of the bigger mods first and see if you still have problems
03:52 VanessaE VS?
03:53 Peacock im wondering about that too lol
03:53 VanessaE and yes, later versions have more than 2000 nodes.  current 0.4.8-git has 32766.
03:53 dmitryk1 VS-Microsoft Visual Studio
03:54 VanessaE I doubt it.
03:54 VanessaE minetest aims to be platform-agnostic
03:54 VanessaE (unless that's MSVC, in which case yes)
03:55 Peacock Microsoft Vietcong?
03:55 VanessaE wait, visual studio is visual basic, yes?
03:55 dmitryk1 VanessaE, yes, but you can write platform-agnostic on ms product.
03:56 VanessaE hm
03:57 dmitryk1 VanessaE? Ha! Yes. And Visual C++, J++,Java,Jscript,C# and others
03:57 VanessaE well, there is an MSVC hook of some kind.
03:57 VanessaE but as a Visual Studio project?  doubt it.
03:58 * VanessaE will stick to Linux :)
03:58 dmitryk1 You not like developers on windows?
03:58 VanessaE I don't like windows at all
03:59 Peacock im curious about the differences between cpp and c#, since i find cpp to be a mess
03:59 VanessaE but the decision to allow for MS product support is not mine, that's up to the core dev team
03:59 VanessaE Peacock: C# bears more resemblance to Java than to C, as I'm told.
03:59 dmitryk1 Sorry. I Think I can halp You to write this good game.
04:00 VanessaE dmitryk1: help is always welcome
04:00 VanessaE but you'll have to work within the current framework for now I guess
04:01 dmitryk1 I think what c++ code can write on any platform and late compile on another.
04:02 dmitryk1 linux only+minetest in develop so strange
04:02 Menche strange?
04:02 Menche how?
04:03 dmitryk1 Its "platform-agnostic"
04:03 VanessaE minetest isn't linux-only.
04:04 VanessaE that's just what most of the devs use, but some folks develop it on windows too
04:05 dmitryk1 And then i try ask about Win develop You joke about it :)
04:05 Menche why can't you develop it on Win?
04:05 VanessaE well, to be fair, windows is a bit of a joke ;)
04:05 VanessaE oh, Menche...  --> msg
04:06 dmitryk1 Yes. Can anybody windows developer help me to start? Can you give me some contacts?
04:08 dmitryk1 VanessaE, I understand, you not like windows :)
04:09 * VanessaE pokes at NekoGloop
04:09 VanessaE he knows windows fairly well, but not core dev stuff
04:09 * NekoGloop yawns
04:09 Peacock V, if windows were a joke howcome we're a fraction of windows users? :P
04:10 kaeza dmitryk1, the only one I know that compiles natively on Windows is BlockMen (search the forums)
04:10 kaeza other devs crosscompile from Linux
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04:12 Peacock and why would (professional) game devs take it more seriously than they take us lol
04:15 dmitryk1 kaeza, thank I try to find him.
04:16 VanessaE Peacock: because it's THAT big of a joke? :)
04:16 us-0gb I wonder how hard it would be to write an auto-respond script for when someone mentions my name on IRC ....
04:17 Peacock if you thought that many people were dumb you wouldn't believe in democracy :-)
04:17 us-0gb I guess it would depend on the IRC client.
04:17 VanessaE Peacock: dumb + democracy = USA.  'nuff said? :D
04:17 * us-0gb nods
04:17 Menche technically, representative democracy or republic. different things.
04:18 Peacock well if you don't like free markets and democracy your fellow americans could suggest places you might enjoy more, like north Korea or the middle east :P
04:18 us-0gb So we are a country of dumb people who can't vote directly.
04:18 VanessaE free market?  what's that?
04:18 VanessaE oh
04:18 VanessaE you mean that thing we allegedly have, but don't in actuality?
04:19 us-0gb Yeah, that.
04:19 VanessaE .
04:19 Peacock well if you really believed that you'd apply for refugee status in China
04:20 NekoGloop VanessaE, what is this, doodle god?
04:20 NekoGloop how do I make dumb and democracy
04:20 VanessaE ?
04:20 us-0gb Not really. Life here is more comfortable than in China.
04:20 VanessaE I poked you because you know windows, and dmitryk1 needs help with minetest dev under that platform
04:20 Peacock it amazes me how people who receive generous benefits from their government can also rail against their own countries
04:20 Menche a new forum member with 1 post just reported a post by a moderator. the reason he gave: "Dont Care!" (sic)
04:21 VanessaE ?
04:21 kaeza wat
04:21 NekoGloop VanessaE, i was talking about "dumb + democracy = USA"
04:22 NekoGloop well ok i know that but uhhh how do i get dumb and democracy
04:22 VanessaE NekoGloop: you can't argue against the fact that the vast majority of voters in this country leave their brains at home when they go to the polls
04:22 NekoGloop what elements to i combine
04:23 Peacock in any case you're much more likely to have a tea-party dictatorship than a left-wing dictatorship, so i'd thank my lucky stars you have democracy lol
04:23 VanessaE NekoGloop: mix one part congresscritters with three parts attack ads, then carefulyl fold in two parts money and a dash of television.  bake at 350 for 4 months.
04:24 VanessaE Peacock: don't get me wrong, I'm glass we have the system we have (to a degree; it's a republic, not a democracy), but if you watch what goes on here from our perspective, well...its just going to shit :(
04:24 Peacock and you think the 70s werent bad?
04:24 Peacock the US has always rebounded
04:24 VanessaE and the voters cast their ballots from emotion and party lines, not intelligence.
04:25 VanessaE I'm sure it'll rebound, but when?
04:25 Peacock i mean, you get benefits, you have a house, thats more than i have working
04:25 Peacock so the US cant be that bad a place
04:25 VanessaE I have a house I pay $720 USD a month for, and it's a rental.
04:26 Peacock thats more than i could afford on benefits
04:26 VanessaE I have benefits I earned every penny of, that wouldn't even pay the rent + electric if Abe and I weren't together.
04:27 Peacock well i do contracts, my wife does hours, and we only have a decent flat, though i dont rail nearly as much against my own country lol
04:27 Peacock and trust me, you ain't seen monopolies until you've been to Canada
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04:27 VanessaE I rail against the government, not the country.
04:28 VanessaE (as do most others here :) )
04:28 Peacock there aren't enough consumers here with the territory we have to justify as many players as the US has
04:28 Peacock so we get fucked on wireless, phone, cable, gas
04:28 us-0gb That distinction is a good point.
04:28 Peacock we even pay more for cars and any product you can think of that the US has
04:29 us-0gb THat's not the government lowering the prices though.
04:29 Peacock naw, the last time the US tried to lower prices (homes, subprime) you got the great recession, so i'd say thats a BAD idea lol
04:30 Peacock the plain fact is i couldn't survive on welfare, and barely survived the one time i was on unemployment, thats why id rather take *any* job than ever go back on unemployment lol
04:31 VanessaE that was private industry doign that, Peacock
04:31 VanessaE subprime referred to the interest rates, not the actual raw cost of the homes
04:32 Peacock im pretty sure the subprime thing was Bush's doing
04:32 VanessaE maybe he had a hand in it, but it was all private industry actually doing it
04:32 VanessaE lenders and the like
04:32 Peacock http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_p​olicies_and_the_subprime_mortgage_crisis
04:32 VanessaE the rules for lending got relaxed
04:32 VanessaE private industry abused them
04:33 VanessaE bubble -> burst
04:33 Peacock yeah, so when the gov't sets the rules rather than private industry, you got disaster, but you still rail against private industry, explain lol
04:33 VanessaE um, no
04:34 VanessaE if the government says "you can give up to 5 kilos of cheese to each customer each month" and you give 4 when you can only safely sustain 4, what's gonna happen?
04:34 VanessaE er give 5 when you can sustain 4.
04:34 Peacock bush wanted to help americans buy homes, that lead the gov't to back risky loans, and the banks said wtf, why not.... surprised?
04:34 dafull97 VanessaE
04:34 VanessaE yes, dafull97
04:34 dafull97 can you do a big favor for me =)
04:35 VanessaE Peacock: not surprised at all, because it was the *banks* that chose to *abuse* the options made available to them
04:35 VanessaE dafull97: what?
04:35 dafull97 next time you see craigydavi in here
04:35 dafull97 tell him to talk to me in my email
04:35 Peacock thats like blaming the drug addict even though he had plenty of enablers around him
04:35 VanessaE dafull97: sure.
04:35 dafull97 since we work different times
04:35 VanessaE Peacock: blame the pusher as much as the addict.
04:35 VanessaE but don't blame the cops for arresting them both.
04:36 Peacock so you admit the government is no better than industry in setting policy, yet you lay the blame at industry's feet
04:36 dafull97 thanks VanessaE..
04:36 VanessaE the government sets the rules, private industry finds ways to *abuse* the rules.  loopholes and the like.
04:36 VanessaE I blame the ones who actually caused the problems, not the ones who loosened the rules.
04:37 VanessaE loose rules are not a license to abuse the syste,
04:37 VanessaE system*
04:37 VanessaE but that's exactly what private industries do
04:37 VanessaE all the while raking in huge profits, and claiming at the same time that they're "losing" money
04:37 Peacock private industry does what is profitable, if the government backs risky loans, then it's a no-brainer
04:37 VanessaE (yeah, "losing", as in "I made a million less this month" == "I lost a million this month")
04:38 VanessaE you mean like fannie mae?  those are private.
04:38 VanessaE or they were
04:38 VanessaE now they're government-owned, in response to the crisis
04:39 Peacock id propose that the fault isn't industry or the gov'ts, its the boomer voters who voted in people who made all that possible, and even then, i dont think it's a reason to deprive smarter generations of their democracy because of boomer mistakes
04:39 VanessaE that's part of the problem too.
04:40 VanessaE which is why I said the voters leave their brains at home.
04:40 Peacock and now boomers want their benefits, and leave the kids to pay for it all
04:40 VanessaE but remember, voters == private industry also.
04:40 Peacock depends on which voters you're talking about
04:40 Peacock i sincerely think the boomers should be made to pay their debts
04:41 Peacock young people aren't stupid, they know they wont get as many benefits as boomers did, all while we pay taxes to support theirs
04:41 VanessaE and those debts would be... what exactly?
04:41 Peacock do you seriously think pensions and medicaid will still be there in 20 years?
04:42 VanessaE pensions are a private industry thing.
04:42 Peacock not here
04:42 VanessaE here they are.
04:42 VanessaE maybe you mean retirement.
04:42 VanessaE and yes, because every working american pays into a separate fund for that, called FICA.
04:42 VanessaE it's totally and completely separate from the general fund, which is the one you hear all the noise about.
04:43 Peacock point is, the greatest generation (ww2 generation) built the great society, and the boomers took advantage of it while reducing their own burden in paying for it, and their children will be the ones left to pay for it, while they get nothing
04:43 Peacock though because the boomers were dumb in their own choices, you think democracy is stupid by consequence
04:44 Peacock though young people have access to way more information than boomers ever had
04:44 VanessaE those boomers are paying in as well, you realize.
04:44 VanessaE were/are
04:44 VanessaE don't fall for the scare tactics
04:44 Peacock boomers fucked the west, and we'll be the ones to rebuild it lol
04:45 Peacock paying for it how, by deferring their retirement by 2 or 3 years?
04:45 Peacock some of my friends don't think they'll ever be able to retire
04:45 VanessaE I mean in taxes.
04:46 Peacock the boomers have been cutting their taxes since the 80s
04:46 Peacock though no one alive today thinks they can go anywhere but up
04:46 VanessaE from the age of 21 until 60-65 or whatever, a portion of their pay still goes to FICA, and that portion has not decreased, afaik.
04:47 Peacock and i pay for pension programs which will probably be insolvent by the time i reach retirement
04:47 Peacock at least the boomers will get theirs
04:48 Peacock if youre looking for someone to blame, dont blame industry or the government, blame the voters of the 70s,80s and 90s
04:49 VanessaE you mean the same voters that, surprise!  run private industry now?
04:49 VanessaE private industry doesn't just spring forth from the ground like weeds.  there are real voters at fault.
04:50 Peacock it takes a majority to vote in a government, last time i checked, its not 51% of the pop. that runs industry
04:50 Peacock most CEOs believe in balancing the books
04:50 VanessaE it takes a majority to vote, but our electoral system doesn't count the popular vote.
04:51 VanessaE a 60% majority of voters can turn into a 45-49% minority when the electoral college votes are counted.
04:51 Peacock so your solution is to abolish democracy and private industry?
04:51 Peacock why not move to a country that's already done it?
04:51 VanessaE when did I say that?
04:52 Peacock or if you dont wanna move, why not start a Coop?
04:52 VanessaE the correct solution would be to get money (most of which comes from private industry) out of politics, so as to level the proverbial playing field.
04:53 VanessaE without the attack ads, people would have little choice but to make up their minds for themselves.
04:54 VanessaE If you advertise, don't tell me what your opponent didn't do, tell me what you will do.
04:54 VanessaE 99% of the ads of that flavor are candidate A attacking B directly, with as many scare tactics as they can cram into a 30 second commercil
04:54 VanessaE commercial*
04:55 Peacock so, removing attack ads would fix it all, or?
04:55 VanessaE the actual clean, attack-free political commercial is a rare bird
04:56 us-0gb VanessaE: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&amp;rct=j&amp;q​=&amp;esrc=s&amp;source=web&amp;cd=2&amp;cad=r​ja&amp;ved=0CDEQtwIwAQ&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fww​w.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D6TiXUF9xbTo&amp;ei​=uG58Ur60IqH9iwLC9IGQDw&amp;usg=AFQjCNHxsacQia​W8l9fh2fOTmF2pLhzg-w&amp;bvm=bv.56146854,d.cGE (Sorry for the long URI, I'm not on my usual system, which would have cleaned that garbage.)
04:57 Peacock well, the last time i checked even negative political ads are free speech, so long as you don't advocate people committing crimes i don't see a problem
04:57 us-0gb Oops, that's the wrong URI anyway.
04:57 paramat joined #minetest
04:58 us-0gb Never mind, that was the right URI.
04:58 Peacock lol
04:58 VanessaE Peacock: freedom of speech does not mean freedom to attack.
04:58 VanessaE "You can't yell 'fire!' in a crowded theater"
04:58 Peacock freedom of speech means being able to say whatever the fuck you want, no matter how dumb
04:59 VanessaE us-0gb: care to summarize?  not really in the mood to watch a video.
04:59 Peacock if people are dumb enough to commit crimes based on that, then they should be jailed, none of that liberal BS about good behaviour letting them out early
04:59 * paramat may have just solved the core floatland discontinuity bug =)
04:59 VanessaE Peacock: sure, but freedom of speech needs some limits, otherwise it devolves to anarchy
04:59 VanessaE those same dumb people are who VOTE and when they do that, they affect ME.
05:00 VanessaE your freedom of speech stops where my wallet begins.
05:00 Peacock dunno, the same people who thinks there should be limits on free speech seem to think the general populace is too dumb to make up their own minds about what's right and wrong
05:00 VanessaE yeah, because those people are *kept* dumb.  Not that they're naturally stupid.
05:01 VanessaE try living in this country for say 10-15 years.  you'll change your tune real quick :)
05:01 Peacock id hate to live in a country that tells me what i can and can't say because some people might be too dumb to interpret it correctly
05:02 VanessaE paramat: I've been wondering.. how much of your work can (will) be translated into new C++ mapgen features?  Some of the shit you do is just plain awesome.
05:02 VanessaE Peacock: you mean the same country that says money == free speech?
05:02 Peacock i think actual crimes should be prosecuted, correctly, without the liberal bias, and not bother the state with thoughtcrime
05:03 VanessaE I agree there.
05:03 us-0gb VanessaE: Basically an attack on another candidate. An example of what you were talking about.
05:03 Peacock well limits on free speech is essential thoughtcrime
05:03 VanessaE us-0gb: right.  exactly my point then.
05:03 Peacock and thoughtcrime is subjective on the person(s) in power not agreeing with the message
05:03 us-0gb paramat: Awesome!
05:03 paramat V, all of it can, but im hesitant to get that deeply involved in the core, as a modder i can work alone and freely :)
05:03 VanessaE Peacock: getting on TV and influencing MILLIONS to some particular action that leads to the further downfall of this country is not a thoughtcrime
05:04 VanessaE paramat: fair enough :)
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05:05 paramat heh i was about to learn C++ but then LVM came along, i may be able to do everything i want in lua mods and games
05:05 Peacock well the only thing i can recommend to the US is to change to a system that allows more than 2 parties
05:05 VanessaE Peacock: the system DOES allow more than two.  there are about half a dozen.
05:05 VanessaE problem is getting them into higher officies.
05:05 Peacock though i can understand that after being a colony of the UK you wanted nothing to do with the parliamentary system
05:05 VanessaE offices*
05:06 VanessaE I think at present there are one or two independents in the House, out of 532 total (there are 3 empty seats)
05:06 VanessaE the secondary problem is some of those third-party candidates are just bat-shit insane :)
05:07 Peacock well parliamentary systems help with the formation of new parties
05:07 Peacock if you prefer coalition gov'ts as i do, then proportional rep also helps
05:08 Peacock though you wont change anyone's vote by telling them it's industrys' or govts' fault
05:08 VanessaE Right now we have the Dempcrats, Republicans, the Tea Party, Libertarians, Green Party, and one or two others that I don't remember right now
05:08 Peacock if anything you'll drive them to the tea party
05:08 VanessaE Democrats*
05:10 VanessaE hell there are couple dozen in total actually.
05:10 VanessaE the Constitution party was the other major one.
05:11 Peacock so, essentially, you dont think there's anything wrong with industry, its more the political system that sticks you with two choices that have a chance of winning?
05:11 VanessaE it's both.
05:11 VanessaE the private industries support the two main parties, who support them, in a self-reinforcing cycle.
05:11 Peacock well if you wanna change things id pick 1 goal and work at it
05:12 VanessaE the end result is third-party candidates have little to no chance at higher offices and virtually zero chance at getting into a proper televised debate.
05:12 Peacock hell, you americans can recall some of your representatives, we can't even do that in Toronto with our crack-smoking mayor
05:13 VanessaE I wish we could.  problem is no one's got enough gumption to do it.  everyone's got their 6-packof bud and american idle.
05:14 Peacock well then democracy's not the problem, the voters are
05:14 VanessaE I vote for whoever makes the most sense, from a purely rational standpoint, but I am one person out of around 130 million.
05:14 VanessaE (who vote)
05:15 Peacock well in the last few years i've been voting separatist since i dont like the direction Canada's been taking
05:16 VanessaE two things would fix the problem:  get rid of the winner-takes-all, first-past-the-post system of electoral votes, and repeal/overturn Citizens United.
05:17 VanessaE 49 of the 50 states give all their electoral votes to only one candidate or the other, regardless of the popular vote in that state, so if 50.0001% of the voters in a state go republican, let's say, then the whole state does, rather than giving (int(50% of electoral votes) + 1) to that party and the rest to whoever else.
05:17 VanessaE (the exception is Nebraska, who did exactly that)
05:18 us-0gb The whole electoral college thing is a bad idea.
05:18 us-0gb It's not just the implementation.
05:18 VanessaE it was a good idea when votes took weeks to count and there were only 13 colonies.
05:18 VanessaE now it's just stupid
05:18 us-0gb Weeks to count ... ha, we don't have that anymore.
05:19 paramat hmmmm, would you be interested in fixing the core floatlands bug together with proller and myself? i believe the bug is caused by an incremented noise index in a [x[z[y]]] mapgen loop, which of course creates discontinuous terrain across chunk boundaries
05:20 paramat ... https://github.com/minetest/minetest/​blob/master/src/mapgen_indev.cpp#L347
05:21 VanessaE in fact the 2012 election was a perfect example.  336 vs 206 electoral votes, in favor of obama.  That's 50% more for obama vs. rmoney.  the popular vote tells a different story:  they were separated by only about 4 percent (in favor of obama)
05:21 Peacock well judging from the 1st bush election it still tooks weeks to count lol
05:21 VanessaE had the electoral votes at least been counted by district than by state, the results would have more closely matched the popular votr.
05:21 paramat noise index needs to be calculated per node instead of incremented +1 each time
05:21 VanessaE vote*
05:22 VanessaE (not that the outcome would have changed)
05:22 VanessaE ok bush's first election was a clusterfuck :)
05:22 VanessaE I'll grant you that
05:22 Menche i forget which, but there have been a few elections where the winner of the popular vote lost the electoral vote
05:23 VanessaE yes
05:23 VanessaE in fact wasn't one of bush's elections like that?
05:24 VanessaE yes
05:24 VanessaE the 2000 election
05:24 Peacock though in the end, just because voters are dumb and the system needs an update, doesn't mean i think democracy should be abandoned
05:24 VanessaE 48.4% of the popular vote went to Gore (vs. 47.9% to Bush), but Bush won the electoral college by 5 votes.
05:25 Peacock if people aren't happy with that system theres always china were politics and industry is regulated by the state
05:25 Peacock *where
05:25 paramat hmm-mm, it should be a quick fix, i'm sure it can be done in time for 0.4.8
05:25 VanessaE people have no ability to change the system anymore
05:25 VanessaE it's too ingrained.
05:25 Peacock and they have more power in leftist china?
05:25 Peacock we've seen left governments all throughout history, they had even less freedom
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05:27 VanessaE just because country A is bad and country B is better doesn't mean country isn't also bad.
05:27 * paramat sits back with popcorn ...
05:27 VanessaE it just means country A is worse.
05:28 Peacock so knocking country B's institutions to make them more in line with country A's doesn't make things better either
05:28 Peacock ideally people should teach their kids to be better judges of character, because no matter what system you have, you'll always have people willing to take advantage of the situation
05:30 Peacock no matter where the power rests, you'll always find parasite there
05:30 Peacock *parasites
05:30 VanessaE yep
05:30 Peacock at least in a democratic system, you can vote them out
05:31 Peacock even shareholders can
05:31 VanessaE if you're lucky enough to get a chance to vote them out.
05:31 Peacock well you have to become part of the equation
05:31 VanessaE we have a secondary problem:  do you vote for the garbage, or the trash?
05:32 paramat in the UK democracy is the illusion of choice, the parties can change very little, and are virtually identical, the system is in power and cannot be voted out
05:32 Peacock well if you think all the choices are bad, why not try to support someone you think is good, or become a candidate yourself? at least then you can say you tried
05:32 VanessaE Peacock: did I not already say that I do exactly that?
05:32 Peacock well by support i mean more than just vote
05:32 VanessaE I vote for whoever makes the most rational sense, I don't give two shits about parties.
05:32 VanessaE I do what I can, which is not much.
05:33 Peacock well you're good with computers and the net, that's something all politicians need
05:33 Peacock these days half the campaigns are waged online
05:33 VanessaE that's what facebook is for :)
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05:36 hmmmm paramat, he cannot do what he's doing
05:37 Peacock well if i met a politician i could actually believe in, i'd give my time, but since i think the system could only be made worse by the present lot, i dont bother, thought i dont advocate abolishing freedoms and rights either
05:37 hmmmm x, z, y order is not unit stride for either 2d or 3d noise
05:37 hmmmm there is absolutely no surprise the result is screwed up
05:37 paramat yep
05:37 hmmmm in order to fix the 2d, what he can do is flip z and x
05:37 paramat funny its related to what we were discussing
05:37 hmmmm but it'd be a better idea to just calculate the 3d and only increment the 3d
05:38 paramat okay
05:38 hmmmm i am looking at the source right now and there's no reason in particular why you'd need to iterate in the y direction with the innermost loop
05:38 paramat correct
05:38 hmmmm so what I'd suggest is changing the loop order to z, y, x, keeping the increment on the 3d noise index
05:39 paramat the loop order only needs to be [x[z[y]]] in my lua mod version
05:39 hmmmm then for the 2d noise, calculating in by z * scanline_size + x
05:39 hmmmm s/in/it/
05:39 paramat yes
05:40 hmmmm zstride = node_max.X - node_min.X + 1;
05:40 hmmmm so int index2d = z * zstride + z;
05:40 hmmmm + x
05:41 paramat ive added comments to the closed pull request https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/555
05:41 hmmmm so like, proller wrote that and decided, "yep this works good enough, I have no need to fix it before committing"
05:41 hmmmm see I rely on his own word that his stuff works
05:41 hmmmm but evidently that's not the case
05:41 paramat i warned him in my flolands mod thread about the flat edges :)
05:42 paramat before he merged it
05:42 hmmmm do you use the indev mapgen personally?
05:42 paramat yes
05:43 paramat the big caves underground have faceted edges like a gem, they look really out of place :)
05:43 hmmmm see, the reason why I can't take it as a serious mapgen is because it's something already established + his wacky own random ideas that aren't really part of the game, hardcoded in
05:43 paramat other than that i think the farlands are beautiful
05:43 hmmmm for big caves he should be using negative 3d noise
05:44 hmmmm his approach to large caves by just abusing the hell out of the current cave functions...... that's bad
05:45 paramat so im gonna try get this fixed for 0.4.8
05:45 paramat LOL
05:46 paramat thanks for the help
05:48 hmmmm np
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05:56 MinetestBot GIT: VanessaE commited to minetest/minetest_game: Allow cactus to lay on its side also. 4bd6bce86e 2013-11-07T21:56:20-08:00 http://git.io/9oApxA
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06:06 kaeza hrm... I get SIGSEGV when pressing enter while on a formspec using the textlist[] element
06:06 kaeza and gdb is being stupid
06:07 VanessaE using shadow's pcall_errfunc patch?
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06:08 kaeza nope
06:08 VanessaE huh.  weird.
06:08 kaeza but this is SIGSEGV, not a random Lua error
06:08 VanessaE true
06:09 VanessaE but I did have one or two cases where a segfault arose from Lua code
06:09 VanessaE took a few runs before I was able to get some error output
06:10 kaeza Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
06:10 kaeza 0x0955e3e4 in ?? ()
06:10 kaeza thanks Obama^Wgdb
06:10 VanessaE haha
06:10 VanessaE that error is about as useful as tits on a bull :)
06:10 VanessaE ok, I'm off to bed now.
06:10 VanessaE night all
06:10 arsdragonfly_ is that 10x server performance PR really that effective?
06:10 kaeza nite
06:11 arsdragonfly_ night
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07:12 reactor \m/
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07:28 VanessaE meh, so much for sleep.
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07:40 OldCoder Hey
07:40 Rhy5 Hi there!
07:41 OldCoder o/
07:41 OldCoder kahrl, Hi
07:41 Rhy5 Thats a pretty strange way to spell 'Karl' or 'Carl
07:42 Rhy5 #minetest-mods
07:42 OldCoder It is the nick he uses
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07:51 kahrl hey
07:52 VanessaE hey
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07:52 Rhy5 Hey
07:52 Rhy5 Pay
07:52 Rhy5 Say
07:52 Rhy5 Day
07:52 Rhy5 French for ya.
07:52 Rhy5 xD
07:53 AspireMint joined #minetest
07:53 OldCoder Hey Pay Day is Far From Gray Say Tell Me the Way to Pay Day I Pray For Pay
07:53 Rhy5 Jesus man!
07:53 OldCoder Heh
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07:55 kahrl jesus was a girl
07:55 VanessaE haha
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08:09 Peacock that would account for the long hair :P
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09:36 john_minetest Good morning everypony.
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09:39 VanessaE hi
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09:48 JamesTait Good morning all; happy Friday and happy X-Ray Day! :-D
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10:13 john_minetest JamesTait: Lol, just a few minutes ago I heared a lecture in the Röntgen Building here at university.
10:14 john_minetest Not about X-Rays though...
10:16 JamesTait john_minetest, coincidence?  I think not!  Put on your tinfoil hat immediately, they're on to you!
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10:24 * john_minetest uses a lead hat because tinfoil isn't that safe
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12:36 sfan5 hi everyone
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12:39 EvergreenTree Someone needs to update the changelog:   dev.minetest.net/changelog
12:39 meldrian joined #minetest
12:39 EvergreenTree Whoops, I mean:   http://dev.minetest.net/Changelog
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13:25 john_minetest Are RBAs shaders upstream?
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14:05 EvergreenTree Quick question:   Is there already an option to disable bones in minetest_game?
14:05 pitriss EvergreenTree: how about remove it from game?
14:06 EvergreenTree No, I was just thinking about giving the player that option
14:06 EvergreenTree Since it is just in mineteset_game you can just remove it though...
14:06 EvergreenTree Probably not necessary
14:07 EvergreenTree If you don't like it, just rm -r minetest/games/minetest_game/mods/bones and be done with it
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14:10 EvergreenTree Hi ruben
14:17 reactor joined #minetest
14:17 reactor R TBON CЛYLA R TBON PAБOTHNK
14:17 zat Robotnik? :D
14:18 reactor I mean, o/
14:18 zat PIngas.
14:20 reactor zat: tell me more about that.
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14:26 zat reactor: pingas pingas pingas pingas pingas pingas pingas pingas pingas pingas
14:26 reactor zat: please go on.
14:26 zat while (1) pingas;
14:26 zat interpret it.
14:26 reactor I'm not sure I understand you fully.
14:28 zat reactor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyM1UGD8sqM
14:28 reactor !title
14:28 MinetestBot reactor: SNOOPING AS USUAL I SEE - YouTube
14:29 reactor Do you say Snooping as usual you see for some special reason?
14:29 zat SnooPINGAS usual I see...
14:30 reactor Can you elaborate on that?
14:30 zat No.
14:30 zat It cannot be elaborated further.
14:30 zat It is just as it is.
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14:31 reactor Does this make you feel unhappy?
14:31 zat Yes.
14:32 reactor I see.
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14:40 reactor zat: is something else troubling you?
14:40 zat Yes.
14:40 reactor Please go on.
14:41 zat No.
14:42 reactor Does this make you feel unhappy?
14:44 zat Yes.
14:44 reactor Why don't you tell me a little more about this.
14:44 zat No.
14:49 reactor Are you saying no just to be negative?
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14:51 rubenwardy Hi all!
14:52 reactor Hi rubberwardy.
14:56 rubenwardy ...
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16:02 PilzAdam Hello everyone!
16:03 AspireMint Hello
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16:09 Jordach hello PilzAdam
16:09 Jordach looks like we both get in about the same time
16:09 * Jordach gets home at 4pm
16:10 Jordach oh, btw, at the next computing lesson I will suggest pilztest and minetest-0.4.8-dev
16:10 Jordach you heard that.
16:10 PilzAdam I still need a proper name for pilztest
16:11 Jordach PilzTest is fine
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16:17 dafull97 Hello Guys, VannessaE present?
16:19 Jordach currently here but not active
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16:23 OldCoder dafull97, Jordach, PilzAdam hello
16:23 VanessaE hi
16:23 OldCoder PilzAdam, as you may not do much with the world, but just test it, PilzTest seems fine
16:24 OldCoder PilzAdam, I think I asked you about a trivial anti-lava mod that you or sfan5 did a year ago. You didn't recall. Does it sound like something he would have done?
16:24 * sfan5 doesn't think he did an anti-lava mod
16:24 VanessaE anti-lava?
16:24 OldCoder VanessaE, Somebody requested of me that I request of one of those two the following:
16:25 us^0gb OldCoder: Are you talking about the one that erases lava above sea level?
16:25 dafull97 Hey OldCoder, when you get a sec can you meet me in my channel??
16:25 OldCoder us^0gb, No; I will take a minute and write what I remember
16:25 VanessaE erlehmanmn (sp) did an update to his sponge mod that included a lava-absorbing iron sponge, a few months ago...
16:25 OldCoder dafull97, Yes after done with this
16:25 dafull97 ok thanks
16:25 OldCoder VanessaE, this was very simple and useful. I will write what I remember...
16:27 OldCoder The person who requested it had me pass a short spec. Lava was no longer allowed to be poured or to flow (I don't recall) vertically. There may have been other constraints. sfan5 or PilzAdam (I am reasonably sure) whipped up a simple mod in minutes. Regrettably things became confused after that and the mod is lost. It was just a few short blocks of Lua code.
16:27 OldCoder If it does not ring a bell, never mind
16:28 OldCoder On a separate note, I would be appreciate if somebody might advise Sapier that I have been looking for him for a week. I wish to have Animals again.
16:28 OldCoder * appreciative
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16:31 dafull97 CraigyDavi
16:31 sfan5 !seen sapier
16:31 MinetestBot sfan5: sapier was last seen at 2013-11-07 22:50:14 UTC on #minetest
16:31 CraigyDavi dafull -_-
16:32 dafull97 pm so we can finish discussing from yesterday...
16:32 CraigyDavi no use query
16:33 EvergreenTree Just use /msg
16:35 CraigyDavi Oh we don't need to message. Everyone can see this. It needs no explanation. This is the matters me and dafull are descussing. http://pastie.org/pastes/8465846/text
16:37 OldCoder sfan5, Thanks. I can't seem to find him.
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16:47 OldCoder reactor, Hi. Contact me this weekend for next steps if any.
16:48 OldCoder
16:48 OldCoder Regarding the paste above:
16:48 OldCoder http://pastie.org/pastes/8465846/text
16:48 OldCoder Yeah, *that's* mature :P
16:48 OldCoder
16:49 CraigyDavi yeah
16:49 CraigyDavi just spoke to him
16:49 OldCoder Oh?
16:49 reactor OldCoder: ?
16:49 OldCoder He timed oout
16:49 CraigyDavi didnt answer my question
16:49 CraigyDavi and left
16:49 OldCoder reactor, next steps regarding Pripyat
16:49 OldCoder CraigyDavi, I think he lost his connection
16:49 CraigyDavi hmm
16:49 CraigyDavi ok
16:49 OldCoder He was here via the web gateway
16:49 OldCoder It will probably be sorted out later
16:50 OldCoder Good luck with the rebuilding or rollback
16:50 * OldCoder must leave for work now
16:50 OldCoder
16:50 reactor OldCoder: mkay
16:50 reactor OldCoder: I think Nether may be turned off safely.
16:51 reactor Only the default buildings depend on it.
16:51 OldCoder It is only a few textures; no rush
16:51 reactor And I'm going to replaced them anyway.
16:51 OldCoder That is fine
16:51 reactor s/ced/ce/
16:51 OldCoder Have fun; let me know what you wish next
16:51 reactor How's textures, by the way?
16:51 reactor Last time I tried it, I got default Minetest textures.
16:51 OldCoder reactor, not sure what question means. And others... will somebody consider talking to Sapier about serialize sdata nil error?
16:52 OldCoder reactor, I put them in worldmods as instructed
16:52 reactor OldCoder: eh?
16:52 OldCoder If you don't see them, ask others to report too
16:52 OldCoder reactor, others g2g
16:52 OldCoder c u
16:52 reactor o/
16:52 reactor I am slow as hell. :(
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17:09 harrison i don't wish to quibble -- but i must point out that hell isn't slow
17:10 Jordach rubenwardy_, dat pint
17:10 Jordach ping*
17:10 rubenwardy_ huh?
17:10 reactor harrison: s/hell/PDP-11\/20/
17:10 rubenwardy The internet is pretty terrible for me now
17:11 reactor Russia?
17:11 rubenwardy Englande
17:11 rubenwardy s/-e
17:11 reactor Weird.
17:11 reactor I thought Russia has the worst consumer Internet access.
17:11 rubenwardy The government is upgrading the wires to fibreopic to houses, so I blame them
17:11 rubenwardy speed, not access
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17:12 Jordach reactor, russia is good depending if you live near a city
17:12 daful9l7 Craigy query me again, it wa lunch time sorry
17:15 Jordach [17:13:46] <PilzAdam> oh wait, the operators are already removed
17:15 Jordach PilzAdam, you have two eyes, use 'em
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17:17 harrison You are not counting the pineal or 3rd eye?
17:17 reactor Jordach: 100 km from a city.
17:17 harrison The one which looketh within?
17:18 reactor Jordach: it's rather near.
17:18 Jordach reactor, you're going to be bad, thexyz afaik has a good one
17:18 Jordach i live just around ~7 km from my nearest city - and i happen to get 8MB per second
17:19 reactor oh
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17:20 PilzAdam Jordach, is the server up?
17:20 Jordach oh shit
17:20 Jordach im making a desert eagle
17:21 Jordach now it is
17:21 Jordach same ip btw
17:43 sfan5 YAY! Novarm made a free version of DipTrace
17:43 CraigyDavi Does anyone know how to change someone's password using auth.txt?
17:44 sfan5 why not use /setpassword
17:44 sfan5 if you still want to base64(sha1(username + password))
17:46 Jordach !sha sfan5 boobs
17:46 CraigyDavi ah thanks
17:46 Jordach cmon
17:46 sfan5 why would my password be boobs?
17:47 CraigyDavi left #minetest
17:47 Jordach sfan5, random
17:48 sfan5 Jordach: 'wlI8q8J70PYmf42yfUbyxVoUBL4='
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17:50 Dan_D What would I change in default furnace abm so that it only needs fuel to be active, and doesn't need a cookable item to start?
17:50 sfan5 wait what?
17:50 sfan5 localdoma.in goes to google.com
17:51 sfan5 s/.com/.se/
17:54 Dan_D Hello?
17:55 sapier joined #minetest
17:55 reactor ?
17:56 Dan_D Does anyone actually know how the furnace abm works?
17:56 reactor ...why?
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18:02 sapier I suggest looking at code to find out how it works ;-) or do you have a little bit more precise question Dan_D?
18:02 Dan_D Ok: How do I make
18:02 Dan_D The furnace abm even run when there is nopthing in the input slot, so that it can be uses as a stove of sorts?
18:03 sapier ok I don't understand what you mean with "stove of sorts"?
18:04 Dan_D So that you can use it as a fireplace
18:04 Dan_D Without needing items to cook
18:04 sapier are you talkin about the animation only?
18:04 Dan_D No
18:04 Dan_D I mean, can I make it consume fuel
18:05 Dan_D Without needing to put something in the input slot
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18:05 sapier can't tell for sure sorry you'll have to look at abm
18:05 Dan_D Ok
18:07 MinetestBot GIT: PilzAdam commited to minetest/minetest: Fix typo in lua_api.txt 1afd359550 2013-11-08T09:16:08-08:00 http://git.io/btrqqw
18:09 reactor Dan_D: I could tell you how it works...
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18:11 john_minetest Hello
18:11 john_minetest reactor: hi
18:12 reactor john_minetest: How do you do.
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18:13 john_minetest reactor: Nice pic: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi​a/commons/a/ab/Campus_TU_Ilmenau.jpg
18:14 john_minetest That building with the orange thingie on the roof is the mensa
18:14 reactor You want me to start the server?
18:14 PilzAdam oO Ilmenau is greyscale IRL?
18:14 reactor Heh.
18:14 reactor I see.
18:14 reactor We've missed that orange bit.
18:16 john_minetest PilzAdam: Yeah, it is completely grey, made out of concrete.
18:16 john_minetest Makes it as stable as debian. But also not that nice when you lay in the grass.
18:17 Jordach john_minetest, is that your campus (afaik)
18:18 PilzAdam sapier has 666 posts
18:18 PilzAdam coincidence?
18:18 john_minetest Yeah. Btw, the campus is colorful. It isn't that stable as the rest of the city but much more confortable than sleeping in a concrete bed. That is the only reason anybody goes to university.
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18:19 sapier you're not the first to recognize pa ;-)
18:21 NekoGloop He's a vivillon!
18:21 Jordach fuck sakes NekoGloop
18:21 Jordach there's like, what, 20
18:21 NekoGloop 26
18:21 NekoGloop iirc
18:21 NekoGloop 2 of which are unobtainable as of yet
18:22 Jordach someones onto us: <JoJoe_Stinky> wow, looks like blockman writes those scripts for us.
18:24 * john_minetest puts a kitten on NekoGloop's head
18:24 NekoGloop meow
18:25 * Jordach puts john_minetest on PilzAdam's head
18:25 * PilzAdam puts #minetest on Jordach's head
18:26 IceCraft hello
18:26 john_minetest :3
18:26 Jordach hai IceCream
18:27 IceCraft oh yes i forgot
18:27 PilzAdam Jordach, what do you think about Pilztest?
18:27 Jordach notbad.png
18:28 PilzAdam couldyougiveamoredetailedreview.?.ogg
18:29 john_minetest plzstopusingfileextensionsinyoursentences.mkv
18:30 Jordach ? is a disallowed character
18:31 PilzAdam not in ext4
18:32 john_minetest file systems suck
18:32 john_minetest especially windows ones
18:32 john_minetest and dos file formats suck
18:33 sapier why? ntfs isn't a bad fs ... btw some of the limitations are enforced by explorer not by fs
18:33 john_minetest it isn't really interoperable with linux.
18:34 john_minetest Some file attributes don't work and symlinks won't work, too.
18:35 sapier file attributes are a outdated feature
18:35 VanessaE how do I check (in lua) if a player is online?
18:35 PilzAdam VanessaE, when minetest.get_connected_players() contains it
18:35 VanessaE ah
18:35 sapier ntfs acl have been copied for unix fs ;-) yet not a very good copy
18:35 john_minetest sapier: I mean stuff like read, write, execute
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18:35 PilzAdam is the improvement for it merged yet?
18:36 dafull97 Hey guyss
18:36 sapier I know ntfs supports all of this but not based uppon limited ONE user ONE group and eveyone else
18:37 john_minetest sapier: huh?
18:38 sapier you can specify rights for multiple users and groups in ntfs yet this can't be mapped correct to limited unix user rights
18:38 john_minetest since any user can be of any group I can have any user having any file.
18:38 john_minetest Yeah, may be.
18:39 sapier I don't know if ntfs supports symlinks yet windows doesn't so no use for them
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18:40 sapier actually ntfs seems to support symlinks http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTFS_symbolic_link
18:41 sapier and as of vista even windows does support em
18:43 john_minetest But no unix symlinks
18:44 john_minetest That means I can't create a linux file system with symlinks on my Flashdrive
18:44 john_minetest When I want to use the stick on Windows later.
18:44 sapier if you read it there is written about unix transition I guess this is a unix driver issue
18:44 john_minetest It is a windows issue, not a unix issue.
18:45 sapier if you want to read a linux fs on windows you need a windows driver for this fs as far as I know there is at least a ext3 driver for windows
18:45 john_minetest They decided to make that stuff proprietary.
18:45 sapier ntfs is very well documented by now yet its security concept was too advanced to be used in linux for some time
18:45 john_minetest Most fs for unix/linux are open source. Any good programmer could implement support.
18:45 PilzAdam its not a matter if its good or not, Microsoft gets a lot of money for it, thats enough
18:45 sapier and of course noone wants to risk patent issues
18:46 john_minetest Windows is just annoying
18:47 john_minetest Nearly every proprietary os is highly annoying
18:47 sapier microsoft did many bad things long time ago but they have lost power to do so long ago
18:47 sapier today evil corporations are google and apple
18:47 john_minetest yeah
18:47 john_minetest But more google than apple.
18:48 sapier LOL
18:48 sapier apple is worse microsoft has ever been
18:48 john_minetest Google is everywhere, only hipsters use apple.
18:48 sapier yet google at least releases some of its work while apple code is completely closed
18:48 PilzAdam why do we even talk english in here?
18:49 sapier it's not minetest-german ;-)
18:49 john_minetest Ummm
18:49 PilzAdam I mean, is anyone reading this who doesnt know german?
18:49 john_minetest I only see german people.
18:49 us^0gb I am.
18:50 us^0gb I can leave though.
18:50 john_minetest us^0gb: Learn german.
18:50 john_minetest ;)
18:50 sapier it's logged so you can't rule out someone will read it ... and don't forget nsa spys the need to translate if we talked in german
18:50 PilzAdam they can use google translator
18:50 PilzAdam that way google could steal all the data from the nsa
18:50 john_minetest Let's talk sträwkcür hcstued
18:50 us^0gb Google Translate gets it wrong a lot.
18:51 sapier I guess nsa translator is way more advanced yet requires more cpu power
18:51 sapier ao only thing was wasting more electricity ;-)
18:51 PilzAdam the nsa translator translates everything into "I am a terrorist so its totatlly valid to steal all my private data"
18:51 john_minetest Lol, I just imagine a website and NSA-spies go there to translate their texts. :D
18:52 us^0gb PilzAdam: That explains SO much.
18:52 sapier the really sad thing is that these most likely aren't jokes but pure truth
18:53 TheLastProject joined #minetest
18:53 us^0gb The NSA really does spy on our communications, if that's what you mean.
18:53 john_minetest I bet all people captured by NSA sattelites get a terrorist beard photoshopped on automatically.
18:53 Calinou or GIMPed on
18:53 Calinou but the NSA needs to spy on themselves too :>
18:54 john_minetest In the song "Linux sets you free" they say "What's gimp? - It's a tool to photoshop [...] "
18:54 Jordach afaik 192.168.*.* are whitelisted
18:54 sapier yes that's what I mean ... we knew they'd had possibility to do for some time but yet everyone assumed they didn't do it ... now we know they actually do
18:54 reactor john_minetest: that's lame.
18:54 john_minetest http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bVDQ4rVrM4
18:54 us^0gb The worst part is that the NSA tries to weaken encryption algorithms to make them easy for them to break later. And that exposes us to non-NSA threats as well.
18:55 john_minetest !title
18:55 MinetestBot john_minetest: Linux Sets You Free - YouTube
18:55 PilzAdam the only sad thing is that the german government doesnt do anything about it
18:55 sapier they can't they'd reveal their knowledge about this and our own security involvement
18:55 john_minetest Pah. NSA spies on our people. Doesn't matter. WAIT?!? They also spied on US?!? OMGWTFBBQ!?!?!?!?!?
18:56 Jordach https://forum.minetest.net/vie​wtopic.php?pid=117478#p117478
18:56 john_minetest Because It makes a difference to the NSA to spy on normal people and politicians
18:56 Jordach post of the YEAR
18:56 sapier NSA doesn't spy on american ppl this is done by GH?? (can't remeber that short) ... and of course results of spying are transfered to a single database
18:57 sapier this way NSA is telling truth when telling "We don't spy on us citizens"
18:59 sapier nsa plz send me a copy of this log in a month ... not in doc format please
18:59 us^0gb .odt would be nice, if possible.
19:00 john_minetest Hello NSA, I wiped my HDD. I am sure you have a backup, please send it to me.
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19:01 sapier does anyone know the telphone voice of mirsosoft netmeeting "this could be recorded" ... I guess now we know what was actually meant by it ;-)
19:01 sapier they told us for years ... we can't even blame them ;-)
19:03 PilzAdam Snowden: "hey, the NSA spies all your phones"; Angie: "So what?"; Snowden: "Even your phone, Angie"; Angine: "OMG that was totally unexpected!"
19:11 sapier politicians are far from having recognized what nsa spy actions really are
19:12 us^0gb Wow. I need to install 78 new packages to compile Minetest ....
19:12 sapier I guess you only need to if you want all features
19:12 dafull97 joined #minetest
19:12 dafull97 Hey guys
19:13 reactor Hey dafull97.
19:13 us^0gb Speaking of features, which LevelDB package do I need to add LevelDB support? It isn't listed in the README.txt.
19:13 us^0gb Hello!
19:13 reactor john_minetest: FAT doesn't allow for links. That's onle of the reasons it sucks.
19:13 reactor So does NTFS.
19:14 reactor Seriously, Windows is a limited toy.
19:14 us^0gb Actually, FAT sucks also because it is prone to both data loss and fragmentation. Issues shared by NTFS, by the way.
19:15 sapier ntfs is as prone to data los as ext3 and ext4 are too
19:16 PilzAdam us^0gb, which distro?
19:16 reactor ext has its problems, too
19:16 PilzAdam its libleveldb-dev for *buntu
19:16 us^0gb The exts are effected? Great, that's reassuring. Maybe I'll look into other file systems.
19:16 reactor us^0gb: exactly
19:16 sapier if your drive crashes all fs have problems with data consistency ;-)
19:16 reactor ext is better than ntfs anyway
19:16 dafull97 *To all* What is the fastest linux OS in your opion?
19:16 sapier no it isn't
19:17 us^0gb PilzAdam: Thanks! I'm on an Ubuntu derivative, so that's probably the package I need.
19:17 sapier ext3/4 are pretty same level as ntfs
19:17 reactor dafull97: Linux is bloated and huge.
19:17 dafull97 indeed
19:17 * Jordach agrees
19:17 dafull97 what is the fastest in your option?
19:17 sapier ext3 is below while fat is hmmm something between minixfs and ext2
19:17 reactor Try any of them BSDs, dafull97.
19:17 * Jordach can't bring himself to installing BSD
19:17 PilzAdam dafull97, the one that you will set up to fit your hardware
19:17 sapier there isn't a fastest fs this depends on what you're doing
19:18 reactor and what sapier said
19:18 reactor But bloat-wise, BSD is better.
19:18 reactor For most Linux distros come full of shit programs.
19:18 us^0gb Security-wise, OpenBSD is the best, I hear.
19:18 sapier yes :-) if there isn't that much released for a os it can't get bloated ... I gues os/2 is even better in this aspect ;-)
19:18 dafull97 ok cool, since i am still nub to linux, say i install ubuntu server and installed minetest could i see the minetest GUI>
19:19 dafull97 or not?
19:19 reactor Well. I heard ubuntu server is at least not as bad as ubuntu desktop.
19:19 sapier ubuntu is good for beginners yet it's not better than windows
19:19 Jordach dafull97, minetestserver doesnt have a gui
19:19 us^0gb Ubuntu Server has no desktop, so no, you can't see the Minetest GUI on it.
19:19 dafull97 ok im meaning could i play the client... -_- lol
19:20 reactor Why are people so addicted to GUI?
19:20 dafull97 ok us got what i meanat
19:20 dafull97 ease of use
19:20 sapier imho atm there's not a good recommendation for beginners ubuntu desktop is that heavyly modified by canonical it's almost as crapy as windows
19:21 sapier and debian is often quite old and beginner unfriendly
19:21 dafull97 yes, i use Cbuntu
19:21 dafull97 yes, i use Xbuntu***
19:21 us^0gb I'd go with Trisquel, but if you really want *buntu, Xubuntu is nice.
19:21 us^0gb Oops, I was too slow.
19:21 dafull97 haha
19:21 dafull97 yes -P
19:21 john_minetest The only thing that a gui is good for is moving files
19:21 dafull97 ** and playing games
19:22 dafull97 =-P
19:22 us^0gb And web browsing. And file editing and ....
19:22 sapier games on linux? only steam games will work
19:22 reactor dafull97: or man up and use BSD right away.
19:22 sapier and some rare games that work using wine
19:22 reactor dafull97: you don't have to go through all the shit to be there.
19:22 us^0gb And Minetest.
19:23 sapier but don't expect wine games to run at more then half windows performance
19:23 reactor dafull97: believe me, you will end up using BSD after 5 years.
19:23 dafull97 sapier, i play minetest on there, minecraft, and openarena with  no steam
19:23 sapier I wouldn't believe reactor I'm on linux for more than 15 years now ;-)
19:23 reactor Very fine, they should worm.
19:23 dafull97 how is free bsd?
19:23 reactor It's good.
19:24 sapier yet don't even think about games ;-)
19:24 us^0gb I used to have a ton of GNU/Linux games before I left them behind for free software.
19:24 dafull97 u love linux
19:24 reactor It's somewhat problematic to configure for the first time, but then it's not as.
19:24 dafull97 it is fully customizeable
19:24 us^0gb Free games are a bit limited, but GNU/Linux games, not so much anymore.
19:24 dafull97 and been on it for 3 yrs
19:24 reactor sapier: I don't get it how you managed to use it for that long.
19:24 reactor sapier: what distribution?
19:25 sapier actualy I switched from suse to self built to ubuntu and now that ubuntu is broken to debian
19:25 sapier stopped building linux when x-server split to hundreds of packets
19:26 dafull97 Xbuntu has been very flexable and fast
19:26 reactor sapier: I never got anything to build in Debian.
19:26 sapier yet none of the current linux distrubutions support multi gpu anymore
19:26 reactor I only managed to compile smalll things here and there.
19:27 sapier no idea what you did wrong reactor
19:27 reactor I somehow attract catastrophes.
19:27 reactor May be it.
19:27 us^0gb I do as well.
19:27 reactor Well, I haven't had any problem with compiling on BSD.
19:28 sapier only thing difficult on debian is using badly written bleeding edge software
19:28 reactor Oh. I forget. I was using debian testing.
19:28 reactor And used to break something after each update.
19:28 reactor That was a terrible experience.
19:29 sapier I updated my servers from debian 5 to current version by now
19:29 reactor Rather, I used to run a distro based on dtesting.
19:29 dafull97 *TO ALL* What are your best programs or script that you have created?
19:29 ganoo joined #minetest
19:29 dafull97 that you are proud of**
19:29 reactor dafull97: /dev/null.
19:29 sapier same was ubuntu while they kept close to debian
19:30 john_minetest dafull97: The scripts that generate my very own OS.
19:30 sapier dafull97 by some time you'll realize you can't create a really good program on your own
19:30 john_minetest *distor
19:30 john_minetest *distro
19:31 us^0gb dafull97: Aside from my Minetest Lua scripts, I just build simple scripts.
19:31 dafull97 sapier, actually i agree, i was asking just your own projects
19:31 dafull97 and nice john_minetest
19:31 john_minetest actually my scripts are not more than wget + configure +compile
19:32 sapier come on john not even applying some patches or sed modifications? ;-)
19:32 dafull97 ohh, dang.. well thats good
19:34 dafull97 all here still>
19:35 john_minetest sapier: It runs, that's what counts
19:36 sapier of course ;-)
19:36 reactor Oh.
19:36 reactor I remember.
19:36 reactor dafull97: my automated internet radio feed.
19:36 PilzAdam john_minetest, personally I think that good code is as important as the functionality
19:36 reactor But I'm not running it anymore.
19:36 dafull97 reactor, really?
19:37 john_minetest PilzAdam: Of course. But on the other hand... gcc has terrible code.
19:37 dafull97 that sounds good... lol i couldnt f\do that
19:37 john_minetest But it works
19:38 reactor dafull97: ?
19:39 dafull97 reactor, was you talking about coding still ?
19:40 reactor 01:29 < dafull97> *TO ALL* What are your best programs or script that you have created?
19:40 dafull97 yes, i said that was good, i couldnt do that
19:40 dafull97 lol
19:40 Jordach joined #minetest
19:40 reactor mk
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20:10 harrison <sapier> only thing difficult on debian is using badly written bleeding edge software
20:11 sapier incompatible to even last version of a required lib ;-)
20:11 harrison this is horribly insensitive!~ some of us prefer the bleeding edge which does not heal and we should not be made fun of
20:13 sapier *handling some plasters to harrison*
20:13 harrison ow
20:17 us^0gb I doubt this is possible, but I figure there's no harm in asking just in case. Is there a way to dismantle a Lua function from another script to alter it a bit?
20:19 sapier you're talking about runtime ?
20:22 us^0gb Yeah.
20:23 us^0gb So one module would be able to slightly alter another module's function without containing the full code of the original function.
20:23 us^0gb Instead, it would only contain the alteration itself.
20:23 sapier no I don't think this is possible ... even if it was this'd be very very very bad style ... even worse than goto
20:24 us^0gb You do have a good point there. I'm not sure what else to do though.
20:24 us^0gb I'll see what other options I can come up with.
20:25 sapier while self modifying code may be very smart it's almost not maintainable ;-)
20:25 harrison when one first suspects that our own consciousness modifies itself in just such an unsafe way, it is as if the fog lifted to reveal that the path we tread falls away to an abyss on either side ...
20:25 harrison lifts
20:26 Leoneof joined #minetest
20:26 us^0gb Containing a full copy of the function would mean that any updates to that function that go noticed would not make it to the modified version though.
20:27 us^0gb Plus, this is meant as more of a patch than a full function rewrite.
20:27 sapier maybe you can make the one writing the function add callbacks to it that allow some modification?
20:28 us^0gb I tried submitting pulls to this, they were rejected in favor of hacky code.
20:28 ShadowNinja us^0gb: Yes, it is possible.
20:29 ShadowNinja local old_func = func
20:29 ShadowNinja function func()
20:29 sapier that's replacing function
20:29 ShadowNinja -- Do custom things
20:29 us^0gb The modification is mid function, a wrapper like that won't work.
20:29 ShadowNinja old_func()
20:29 ShadowNinja end
20:29 ShadowNinja Hmmm, well no then.
20:30 us^0gb I figured as much.
20:30 us^0gb I'll look at other options.
20:30 harrison Most rappers won't work, unless you count streetlevel sales.
20:30 us^0gb s/at/for/
20:31 us^0gb Can I tell what function calls another function? Sort of like a debug trace?
20:31 us^0gb But without the error, and it only needs to go one function up.
20:32 sapier with debug lib you can do almost anything but if by some time we add at least minimal security capabilities your code will be broken
20:32 us^0gb Yeah, if it's going to be broken by security code, that's probably not a good option.
20:32 ShadowNinja us^0gb: You can parse the string returned by "debug.traceback()".
20:33 us^0gb Okay, that sounds doable. I'll experiment with that.
20:33 NakedFury joined #minetest
20:33 sapier debug traceback uses debug lib so it might be better to do it direct ;-)
20:34 us^0gb Okay, I'll look at both options. See what works best.
20:34 Menche joined #minetest
20:35 us^0gb I wonder if I can fix this with a Minetest pull ...
20:37 Wuzzy2 joined #minetest
20:44 us^0gb Okay, this function is in C++, I can't figure out what it's doing. But it gives me an idea, I think I can pull this of by simply redefining the can_dig() of four nodes. Thanks for the help!
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21:11 Jordach Good news everyone: dwarves will be updated before 0.4.8
21:11 john_minetest 31th february of 2100: Minetest 0.4.8 released.
21:12 harrison what is the best kind of parrot? vote now
21:12 Leoneof joined #minetest
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21:14 john_minetest what's the best kind of CARROT?
21:17 john_minetest I guess the ones that can be used to produce open source carrot juice that can be used in GNU/Fridge to crash the minetest site ;)
21:17 us^0gb john_minetest: It sounds like I have plenty of time to finish up this game then.
21:17 john_minetest Hmmm... Maybe I find it in the logs
21:18 john_minetest us^0gb: Yeah, especially when you have got time until 31th of february.
21:18 us^0gb It's probably a triple leap year of something.
21:18 us^0gb *or
21:19 Miner_48er joined #minetest
21:19 Menche too bad the date will revert back to December 1901 in January 2038
21:19 us^0gb Why does February not have 30 days (31 on leap year)? It should, to match the other months.
21:19 Ritchie joined #minetest
21:20 us^0gb Drats. I forgot about the UNIX time loop.
21:20 Menche but it will be all fine if you use a 64 bit system.
21:20 us^0gb Oh, good. That's what I have.
21:20 Menche those use a 64 bit int for the time right?
21:20 us^0gb Probably.
21:21 john_minetest Menche: Nope. You are never safe if you use a windows system. Neither 32 nor 64 bit are safe.
21:21 Menche the predicted death of the sun comes before the time will overflow out of a 64-bit int
21:21 us^0gb Meh, everyone knows Windows isn't safe.
21:22 john_minetest Even if all linux systems were 32 bit.
21:22 john_minetest Windows would just crash on that day because the linux servers at windows HQ would overflow
21:23 Menche now if that screwed up WGA so all the windows computers in the world were marked as pirated and disabled
21:23 us^0gb GNU/Linux servers at Microsoft Headquarters? Those hypocrites.
21:24 Menche :D
21:24 * Menche wonders if anyone uses Windows Server for anything serious
21:25 us^0gb My school does. A school I'm switching away from, by the way.
21:25 sfan5 ugh
21:25 sfan5 even my school knows they should use linux for serious things
21:25 * Jordach can make good use of Windows Server
21:25 john_minetest us^0gb: Hey, you get windows updates not only once all 3 years but every few days. So there must be some server there that doesn't crash and won't reboot for 3 years.
21:25 Jordach by replacing it with Arch Linux
21:26 john_minetest Jordach: Only a small modification with some diff. The image size even shrinks :)
21:26 sfan5 hah
21:30 Jordach i can use windows server for one thing, screwing up with malware then replacing it with arch
21:30 Megaf joined #minetest
21:32 * Jordach screams in rage
21:32 Jordach I update to LO 4.0.5
21:33 Jordach and GET the NEXT FUCKING UPDATE as a HELP FILE UPDATE.
21:33 Jordach Jordach:system_core_dump(fuck, this, shit)
21:34 us^0gb I find myself pulling to minetest_game again .... I said I was going to leave minetest_game alone, but here I find myself.
21:34 john_minetest Is RBA shaders pulled yet?
21:35 us^0gb Not sure.
21:35 PilzAdam john_minetest, he still works on it
21:35 PilzAdam there are still bugs and settings missing
21:36 Jordach -and settings missing
21:36 Menche there're bugs missing?
21:36 PilzAdam Jordach, hm?
21:37 Jordach PilzAdam, anything RBA codes is a broken wreck
21:37 Jordach see technic
21:37 Jordach and unified inventory
21:37 john_minetest And: There should be a downloader for texture packs like there is one for mods. AND: mods and textures should have sortable tags like textures ->  [512px], [HD], [complete], [repack] or mods -> [mobs] [mesecons] [technic] [plants]
21:37 cisoun joined #minetest
21:38 john_minetest Also: Sortable server list
21:38 john_minetest There aren't SO many servers atm but there will come more and everything will become very confusing.
21:39 Menche the serverlist already knows which servers have creative mode, pvp, passwords, etc. on
21:39 Menche would be nice if it could sort into categories with those
21:40 Menche instead of the somewhat cryptic set of letters before the name
21:40 PilzAdam the whole menu is coded in Lua, you can change it even without compiling Minetest
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22:30 kaeza greetings
22:32 kaeza LOL https://forum.minetest.net/vie​wtopic.php?pid=117478#p117478
22:32 us^0gb Greetings, kaeza!
22:32 kaeza hey us^0gb
22:32 * kaeza sends to trash
22:33 PilzAdam kaeza, why?
22:33 us^0gb Wow, that's just ... odd. And that's her only post, too.
22:34 PilzAdam kaeza, is offtopic not allowed in offtopic section?
22:34 kaeza PilzAdam, first post and posting totally offtopic stuff?
22:35 us^0gb PilzAdam does have a point though. She did post it in the correct forum.
22:36 PilzAdam kaeza, there are a lot more people who post offtopic all the time, even outside of the offtopic section
22:36 kaeza okay okay
22:40 john_minetest joined #minetest
22:40 zat1 :D http://www.telepizza.cl/contacto.php
22:41 kaeza dat phone number
22:41 zat They urgently need an expert developer to fix it
22:41 kaeza dose errors
22:41 zat read it as: adding @ in front of every function call
22:42 zat doze
22:45 john_minetest Lol, one of the principles of the UNO joining fights is "just cause". It took me ages until I realized that they was relating to justice and it was not "just 'cause we can"
22:47 ShadowNinja Hmmm, so kaeza's a mod now. When did that happen?
22:47 cisoun joined #minetest
22:59 PilzAdam bye
22:59 paramat joined #minetest
23:05 paramat hi proller :) last night i solved the flat-edge bug in core floatlands, see https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/989 please read last night's minetest channel logs 05:19 to 05:40
23:07 paramat i will now provide you with my best attempt at the correct mapgen code, but i cant test it, would you be able to test the code? i would very much like to fix this for 0.4.8
23:09 paramat eh i missed mr mushroom again :/
23:09 us^0gb Yup, just barely, too.
23:10 sfan5 good night everyone
23:10 us^0gb Good night.
23:28 anunakki joined #minetest
23:30 john_minetest cya
23:30 john_minetest joined #minetest
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23:44 Jordach hey paramat
23:45 Jordach you're a day sleeper aren't ya
23:45 paramat sometimes :)
23:46 paramat oh Peacock is up! :)
23:47 Peacock yeah, got up a bit earlier today, 17hrs XD
23:47 Jordach nono, Peacock is the nickname nazi
23:47 Jordach you are his bitch on his server
23:47 Peacock guten morgen mein herr
23:47 Jordach eg, no numbers, no stupid shiyt
23:47 Jordach shit
23:47 paramat \o/
23:48 Jordach Peacock, have you filtered out "YouTube"
23:50 Peacock youtube?
23:51 Peacock http://youtu.be/pEsZkTTgydc
23:51 Menche !title
23:51 MinetestBot Menche: GET YOUR HANDS OFF MY PENIS! - Epic Australian Man Arrested - YouTube
23:51 Peacock http://youtu.be/P7Jy312JCUQ
23:51 Menche !title
23:51 MinetestBot Menche: DJ Steve Porter - Rob Ford Crack Remix - YouTube
23:53 paramat epic guy in that vid
23:53 Peacock yeah lol
23:54 Peacock getting arrested - like a sir
23:54 paramat ...eo
23:56 paramat btw thanks for introducing me to femen, surprisingly i rather like them *^_^*
23:56 Menche "And you sir, are you waiting to recieve my limp penis?" lol
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