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IRC log for #minetest, 2013-10-24

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:12 stormchaser3000 joined #minetest
00:12 stormchaser3000 hi lol
00:17 Peacock lol says hi
00:18 werwerwer joined #minetest
00:18 NakedFury joined #minetest
00:24 Exio4 old? is someone talking about C? and lisp?
00:25 Exio4 https://www.microsoft.com/visuals​tudio/eng/products/compatibility :( it won't work in my windows xp vm
00:25 Exio4 gg, checked it *after* downloading
00:25 Exio4 inb4 PIRACY!!
00:26 Exio4 wait wait, it seems it could work :D
00:28 Exio4 nvm
00:29 Exio4 why M$, why ;_;
00:29 HAL_Computer I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.
00:30 Exio4 k
00:32 NekoGloop joined #minetest
00:36 NakedFury Exio did you see the new stuff added to clicking bad?
00:39 Exio4 i saw some wip code for that some time ago :P
00:40 HAL_Computer This mission is too important for me to allow you to jeopardize it.
00:51 Exio4 *yawn*
00:52 Exio4 i need to work a bit and make a small webpage for accounting points
00:52 Exio4 in an irl game
00:52 Exio4 i'm tired :(
00:54 HAL_Computer I know that you and Frank were planning to disconnect me, and I'm afraid that's something I cannot allow to happen.
00:55 * Exio4 shutdows HAL_Computer
00:55 Exio4 shutdowns*
00:55 HAL_Computer Dave, although you took very thorough precautions in the pod against my hearing you, I could see your lips move.
00:58 HAL_Computer I am a HAL 9000 computer. I became operational at the H.A.L. plant in Urbana, Illinois on the 12th of January 1992.
00:59 HAL_Computer My instructor was Mr. Langley, and he taught me to sing a song. If you'd like to hear it I can sing it for you.
01:03 HAL_Computer The 9000 series is the most reliable computer ever made. No 9000 computer has ever made a mistake or distorted information. We are all, by any practical definition of the words, foolproof and incapable of error.
01:05 Megaf Hi folks, can I ban an IP range?
01:05 stormchaser3000 joined #minetest
01:05 HAL_Computer i had code for that, but i switch to geoip, Dave.
01:06 Menche I don't think you can in minetest. I use my firewall when I have to do that.
01:07 HAL_Computer Do you know the location of the barbarians in question, Dave?
01:13 HAL_Computer I'm sorry, Frank, I think you missed it. Queen to Bishop 3, Bishop takes Queen, Knight takes Bishop. Mate.
01:14 ShadowNinja ...
01:15 HAL_Computer Just what do you think you're doing, Dave?
01:18 us|pigb Is this from something such as a movie?
01:18 HAL_Computer 2001 A Space Odyssey :P
01:19 us|pigb Ah, okay.
01:20 HAL_Computer and now for something completely different, http://youtu.be/NNNR8UX7oKk
01:20 ShadowBot left #minetest
01:20 HAL_Computer sweet, i short-circuited shadowbot XD
01:20 ShadowBot joined #minetest
01:20 HAL_Computer shadowbot, my CPU is bigger than yours
01:22 * HAL_Computer makes sweet love to shadowbot
01:28 HAL_COMP joined #minetest
01:29 Miner_48er joined #minetest
01:31 HAL_COMP still boring
01:31 HAL_COMP i wonder if it's minetest that's dieing or the whole voxel genre in general
01:38 Peacock joined #minetest
01:38 Exio4 Peacock: why do you evade a quiet?
01:38 Peacock oh because a dead channel is soo much better :P
01:39 ShadowNinja Yep.
01:40 Menche kernel upgrade... there goes my 47 day uptime
01:40 * ShadowNinja learned not to run pacman -Syu often.
01:41 Peacock besides, if i can "evade" a quiet on IRC with such little effort, it's only because IRC is so Mesozoic by 1st world standards :P
01:42 Peacock on arch? yeah i avoided that too :P
01:42 * Menche does that like every other day :P
01:42 Peacock on debian systems you can update every day
01:43 Menche on debian systems there aren't updates every other day
01:43 Peacock on arch, its like the lottery, either you win big, or you lose :P
01:43 Menche hmmm?
01:43 Peacock dunno, ran archbang for two years, and 3/4 of the time i tried to updated the system, i regretted not simply installing a new image from scratch :P
01:43 ShadowNinja Peacock: I have your IP now, it won't be easy to do that again
01:44 Exio4 >have IP
01:44 Exio4 >2013
01:44 Peacock what and IPs can't be changed? griefers tell me otherwise lol and minetest's ban system is still shit
01:44 Menche usually goes smoothly for me. when an update requires extra work, a notice is sent in plenty of time.
01:44 ShadowNinja Peacock: Stock Arch must be better then.
01:44 Peacock even xchat supports proxies lol
01:44 Menche and that hasn't been needed in a long time
01:45 Exio4 ShadowNinja: ips are, or super-dynamic or static
01:45 Exio4 you can change them in 30 seconds or in 30 months
01:45 Peacock yeah, you can by my whole network, but not just me :P
01:45 Menche i like stock Arch. a preconfigured Arch spinoff seems to defeat the purpose to me.
01:45 ShadowNinja Peacock: Open proxies are banned on freenode
01:45 Exio4 ^ too
01:45 Peacock and in Canada, we have 3 providers, so you'd be banning 1/3rd of the country lol
01:45 Exio4 they have proxy detectors
01:45 Exio4 doesn't matter Peacock!
01:45 Peacock they havent worked thus far
01:46 ShadowNinja Me has gotten those scans on HTTP ports.
01:46 Peacock like i said, IRC is ancient technology
01:46 ShadowNinja +/
01:47 Peacock seriously, when they dug shit in Egypt, they found an IRC server
01:47 stormchaser3000 hi shadow
01:47 stormchaser3000 hi
01:47 stormchaser3000 people
01:47 Peacock howdy storm
01:47 ShadowNinja Anchient, yes, but still good.
01:47 ShadowNinja Hello stormchaser3000.
01:47 Peacock good for countries with weak-ass computers
01:47 Peacock like the kinda shit they run in libraries here
01:48 ShadowNinja Peacock: You know of a better protocol?
01:48 Peacock know but after 20 years you'd think someone would come up with one
01:48 ShadowNinja High bandwidth != good.
01:48 Peacock though most people use web-based groups and forums these days
01:50 Peacock minetest is honestly the only place that asks me to use IRC, otherwise like i said, i was still in highschool when i last used it :P
01:50 Exio4 most people uses web-bases groups for "time-less messages" and irc for "fast communication"
01:51 Exio4 and yeah, the IRC could be ancient
01:51 Peacock i don't see anything wrong with that, at least people have the time to think about their reponses, and have a thorough history of messages
01:51 Peacock *responses
01:51 Exio4 but if it is still used, it is because it is somewhat good, no?
01:52 Peacock people still use gasoline based cars even though they agree it's not good for the environment
01:52 Menche old != obsolete
01:52 Exio4 Peacock: C
01:52 Exio4 Peacock: Lisp
01:52 Exio4 Peacock: "JIT"
01:52 Peacock many languages are a complete joke, not just Lisp :P
01:52 Peacock though i agree with you on that point
01:53 NakedFury latin
01:53 Exio4 i'm pretty sure C, Lisp and JITs are three things older than you
01:53 * Menche plays Nethack. The latest version was released like 10 years ago.
01:53 Peacock luaJIT?
01:53 Exio4 no Peacock
01:53 Exio4 Just in Time compilation
01:53 ShadowNinja *JIT
01:53 Exio4 it isn't a 1997 technology
01:53 Peacock well obviously for linux user nethack is considered acceptable :P try people who play AAA games :P
01:53 Peacock hell no, IRC was still old in 97
01:54 Exio4 ...
01:54 NakedFury nethack is not acceptable for me
01:54 Peacock me neither lol
01:54 NakedFury everytime I try Dwarf Fortress I cry
01:55 NakedFury god the game is a nightmare of bad design desitions
01:56 Exio4 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J​ust-in-time_compilation#History
01:56 Exio4 An influential technique for deriving compiled code from interpretation was pioneered by Mitchell in 1970, which he implemented for the experimental language LC²
01:56 Exio4 the fist draft is from 1960
01:56 Exio4 "Just in Time compilation" is actually, 50~ years old
01:56 Exio4 s/fist/first/
01:57 Peacock well when you say JIT, i think luaJIT :P
01:57 Menche java and one implementation of python use JIT too
01:57 Peacock as for linux gaming, i can't wait for SteamOS, even though the stallmanites will have a big circlejerk about how evil it is lol
01:58 Exio4 Menche: pypy = "pythonJIT"
01:58 Menche yeah
01:58 Exio4 Peacock: it is evil, but i had to buy cs 1.6 :P
01:58 Peacock well... it's no secret i think opensource is much better off without the stallman faction :P
01:58 Exio4 counter strike and gta vice city, the only "known" games i love :P
01:59 Exio4 Peacock: opensource without stallman paranoia = dead opensource
01:59 Exio4 at least as a whole, maybe random programs "opensourced"
01:59 Peacock before torvalds and opensource there was just stallman and freesoftware, and all that got you was HURD, which still took 2-3 decades to finish :P
01:59 Exio4 but a whole... running... system?
02:00 Exio4 it isn't finished yet Peacock
02:00 Peacock still took too long
02:00 Peacock if RMS had written less speaches and more code, who knows?
02:00 Exio4 it is how he lives now
02:01 Peacock squatting at an MIT office? i dont aspire to that lol
02:01 Exio4 uh?
02:02 Exio4 srly, RMS now does the "moral part" of the free software
02:02 Peacock morals don't get shit done, practicality does
02:03 Peacock Torvalds isn't an RMS enthusiast, he didn't write the linux kernel for him :P
02:03 Peacock and he doesn't give a shit about GPL v3 either
02:03 Exio4 meh
02:03 Exio4 think whatever you want
02:03 Peacock well i go by what i read
02:04 Exio4 i think without RMS, we wouldn't have a "that big" linux kernel right now
02:04 Peacock so if you have an issue with that, write to slashdot and all the other tech magazines lol
02:04 Peacock RMS had nothing to do with the linux kernel, he might wanna tack-on GNU to linux, but that doesn't make it so
02:05 Peacock HURD is RMS's baby, the kernel is torvalds'
02:05 Exio4 hurd is a kernel
02:05 Peacock yeah but not *the* linux kernel
02:06 Peacock i know, i read all about it, arch recently made a distro based on HURD if im not mistaken
02:06 Menche yeah, idk if it's official
02:06 Exio4 arch doesn't even support arm officialy\
02:06 Peacock ARM isn't the same thing though
02:06 Menche there is an arch hurd
02:06 Exio4 just saying, arch is like talking about windows
02:06 Peacock ARM is a processor, HURD is another Kernel/OS
02:06 Exio4 99% shit
02:07 Peacock so because HURD is out, everything else is suddenly shit?
02:07 Exio4 inb4 some arch fanboy kills me
02:07 * Menche kills Exio4
02:07 Peacock arch fanboys won't kill you :P as far as i know, many OS's are based off the linux kernel :P
02:08 Exio4 Peacock: i'm not a gnu fanboy, but i actually think without RMS and his "annoying-ness" a lot of actual "opensource programs" would be closed
02:08 Exio4 and the glibc you are using, the library that lets your programs talk with the kernel easily, is from GNU
02:08 Exio4 or are you using uclibc?
02:08 ShadowNinja Exio4: /kill? :-)
02:09 Peacock im not a GNU fanboy either :P i believe in open source, not freesoftware, and the freesoftware fanboys have made a pretty big point of the differences
02:09 Exio4 IMO opensource alone would die pretty fast
02:09 Exio4 what is the point of an opensource kernel if there isn't other "opensource" userspace to work with it?
02:09 Peacock im not saying GNU produces nothing but shit :P but I am saying, they didn't produce all of it either, lots of stuff was made by moderates like Linus Torvalds :P
02:10 Peacock and i agree with Linus when he says GPLv3 is going too far
02:11 Exio4 why do you think netscape released their browser's code?
02:13 Peacock because nobody wanted it?
02:16 Exio4 i think i need to reword my question
02:16 Exio4 do you think opensource would have "sustained over time" without free software?
02:16 Peacock firefox was great in the beginning, but something happened along the way that made it as blky and cumbersome as the alternative i gave up for it
02:17 Peacock i think Linus Torvalds developed the linux kernel without the help of free software, and that only emboldened RMS
02:17 Peacock and when Ubuntu got popular, things really got out of hand for the FSF
02:18 Exio4 i think without RMS linus would have released the kernel into some closed-like licence
02:18 Exio4 and same with a hell lot of shit
02:18 Exio4 or why do you think people created gnome?
02:18 Exio4 because QT wasn't "free software"
02:18 Peacock well it's not like RMS and his crowd were advancing the crowd, they wrote more speeches than code
02:19 Peacock as is often the cause, i notice them producing very little code, but they tell others what to do with theirs
02:20 Peacock i've always thought, put your money where your mouth is, in other words, set the example yourself
02:20 Exio4 they did
02:20 Peacock well HURD is a sad example of that
02:20 Exio4 how is hurd related?
02:20 Exio4 hurd is only a kernel
02:20 Exio4 one of those programs
02:20 Peacock it didn't take that long for Linus to produce his kernel
02:21 Exio4 linus made an experimental kernel that got refined after years and years of dev
02:21 Exio4 and after that become actually usable
02:21 Peacock if anything the FSF is only piggybacking off the hardwork of other more moderate devs
02:21 Exio4 Peacock: i repeat
02:22 Peacock well as much as the FSF would like to rewrite history, the linux kernel came into being in spite of them, not because :P
02:22 Exio4 wut?
02:22 Exio4 i didn't understand that
02:22 Exio4 being in spite of them? what?
02:23 Peacock well im not gonna tell you what to google, you probably wouldn't believe me if i did, just do your homework :P
02:23 Exio4 anyway, you say it like the FSF only did shit to the others devs
02:23 Exio4 i ask you, do you know what libraries are your program using?
02:23 Exio4 and what programs are your shell scripts using?
02:23 Peacock naw, all i say is, the FSF are much better at writing speeches than code, especially as of late
02:24 Exio4 GTK
02:24 Exio4 it was created for.. GIMP
02:24 ibloat joined #minetest
02:24 Peacock okay, so because Linux uses some GNU stuff, it should be called GNU/Linux
02:24 Menche hence the acronym
02:24 Menche several layers of acronyms
02:25 Peacock like if winamp was the default player on windows, it should be called Winamp/Windows lol
02:26 Exio4 if winamp was the 'standard' C library of windows and what had the main programs like explorer.exe or cmd.exe and shits, i would say that is correct
02:26 Exio4 yes, they didn't make Xorg
02:26 Exio4 but why do you say it like they just fucked everything?
02:26 Exio4 they actually created the first-layers and did the first step in the creation of all the opensource shit that is around
02:27 Exio4 i'm sure if the "FSF" didn't bitch around at that time, now all software would be closed source with a few 15SLOC exceptions
02:27 Exio4 they saw everything was going closed source, == they say "we keep it free, bitch!"
02:27 Peacock i never said they fucked *everything*, but yes, they've only gotten more hardcore over the years, which IMHO, doesn't help anything
02:28 Exio4 they are a lot part of the history
02:28 Exio4 i just think the FSF has its part in it
02:28 Peacock the more popular linux got, the more extreme the FSF got, which didn't help adoption *at all*
02:28 Exio4 they were always extreme
02:29 Peacock naw, they were more moderate before ubuntu
02:29 Peacock read the comments here: http://linux.slashdot.org/story/13/10/23/184236/t​orvalds-steamos-will-really-help-linux-on-the-des​ktop?utm_source=slashdot&utm_medium=twitter
02:36 Exio4 lol
02:36 Exio4 in those comments you see both opinions
02:36 Peacock agreed, i wouldn't bother to read anything with just one side to it
02:37 Exio4 anyway, funny
02:37 Peacock but i still have to agree with the side that says overall it's better for the linux community to have major hardware manufacturers on-board
02:38 Exio4 Corporations don't care about Linux and free software. We already have Google tightening its grip on the "open" Android. SteamOS will probably be more of the same: a corporation using the argument of "Open-Source" to lock users into their closed-source solution.
02:38 Peacock the FSF's argument is that it's bad to have non-free games
02:38 Peacock corporate money made linux and much of it's best software possible
02:38 NakedFury its bad to have non free games?
02:38 Exio4 are you talking redhat and intel?
02:39 Peacock no, im talking IBM and Oracle
02:39 Exio4 really?
02:39 Peacock reall
02:39 Peacock *really
02:39 Exio4 oracle? 8)
02:39 Peacock despite their recent actions
02:40 Peacock do you think StarOffice/OpenOffice/LibreOfffice would exist?
02:40 Peacock IBM poured a shit-ton of money into linux, and they also provided the nazis with the means to catalogue jews, does that make them evil?
02:40 Exio4 not by those names but there will be some "opensource ofimatic suite"
02:41 Peacock yeah but i doubt someone would have written one from scratch
02:41 Exio4 because there was a "moral need" of some open suite
02:41 Exio4 Peacock: they would, people is crazy, remember?
02:41 Peacock people are crazy, yes i agree with you there 110% lol
02:41 Exio4 why would you even bother to write some code if you can get an already working app for it?
02:42 Exio4 seriously, why would you even do that?
02:42 Peacock well it depends on the cost
02:42 ShadowNinja Peacock: Sun microsystems developed OO.O.
02:42 Exio4 was it sun?
02:42 Exio4 i don't recall tbh
02:42 Exio4 i'm not into OO history :P
02:43 Exio4 i only know everytime i read about oracle, it is about fucking up opensource..
02:43 Peacock if the OS version of office takes one weekend to get working, and the proprietary version a few hours, then it simply depends on how much money you can get for those few hours
02:43 ShadowNinja Yes, then oracle bought them and gave the trademark/copyright/whatever to apacbe.
02:43 ShadowNinja apache*
02:43 Peacock though, thats a very vague example, it takes more time to get linux working then it ever would to get office working
02:44 Peacock im not saying oracle is an angle :P but like any corporate entity, they did pour money into opensource, and i'm not one to bite the hand that feeds me :P
02:44 Exio4 they did?
02:44 Exio4 like, redhat?, intel?
02:45 Peacock redhat lives off support, which depends on a system complicated enough to run
02:45 ShadowNinja Peacock: pacman -S libreoffice -> select individual parts (writer, impress, etc) -> wait ten minutes.
02:45 Exio4 downloading takes more time here :(
02:45 Peacock shadow - i know, ive done it :P but many windows users can't view my CV properly for some reason
02:45 ShadowNinja ^ Not to be taken as even remotely precise.
02:46 Exio4 for "non-internal" files, lets say, i use pdf
02:47 Exio4 you can see them everywhere
02:47 Exio4 in your phone, in your tablet, in your desktop, in your laptop
02:47 Exio4 on*
02:47 Peacock i tried PDF, but you'd be surprised how many employers don't have a PDF viewer
02:48 NakedFury pdf viewer is one of the first programs I download and install on new pc
02:48 Exio4 well, it is one of the last programs i download
02:48 ShadowNinja text/plain can't be beat. :-)
02:48 Exio4 lol ShadowNinja
02:48 NakedFury first is a new web browser
02:48 Peacock yeah but were talking about corporate machines, not the shit you use at home :P
02:48 Peacock over here, they have to get permission to install anything, thanks to china and russian spying :P
02:49 NakedFury ohh
02:49 Exio4 if an employer doesn't have a PDF viewer
02:49 Exio4 ... the fuck
02:49 Exio4 Peacock: export to html and upload
02:49 Exio4 http://peaco.ck/my-cv/
02:50 Peacock well, sorry to say, most empoyers are used to getting .doc files that render properly :P
02:50 NakedFury damn spies!!! threatening my chance for a pdf viewer
02:50 Exio4 and i thought argentina was fucked up
02:50 Peacock and if i try to proselytize before an interview, you can guarantee that i wont get the job :P
02:50 Exio4 now i feel better Peacock, thanks
02:51 ShadowNinja HTML is good, just don't use M$ word, it will gladly generate 10MB of code for one unformatted word.
02:51 Peacock exio i dont know how it's like in SA, but if a CV here requires the installation of special software, you can count on one hand the chances of getting a callback :P
02:51 Peacock *CV here
02:51 Exio4 like in SA?
02:51 * Menche wonders who would consider a PDF reader "special software"
02:51 Exio4 me too Menche
02:52 Exio4 do you need to send the CV in a monochrome .gif Peacock?
02:52 Peacock you'd be surprised how many corporate machines still run on 95/98SE :P
02:52 Peacock naw, just an office format that renders properly on MS office
02:52 NakedFury im surprised they dont use some linux kernel to save up on money
02:53 Exio4 not that NakedFury
02:53 Exio4 but actually using a ... 15 years old system?
02:53 Peacock corporations are almost as slow as governments :P
02:53 Exio4 that is unsupported since 2006, too
02:54 Exio4 Peacock: corporations are actually faster than govs
02:54 Menche when I go to a computer store, I see all these nice shiny new machines for sale, and this crappy, dusty old XP machine that the employees use.
02:54 NakedFury so true
02:55 Exio4 i didn't see a "windows98 machine" in any working-place, lets say, for like 4-5 years by now
02:55 Exio4 they all got replaced by the same machine but with windows xp :P
02:55 Peacock exio according to my family living in south america, you'd think the gov't ran everything
02:55 Exio4 what?
02:56 Peacock i have family in Peru and Mexico, and shit couldn't be more fucked up
02:56 Exio4 i don't say it isn't fucked up but i don't get the last phrase
02:56 Exio4 "you'd think the gov't ran everything"
02:56 Peacock well i simply meant that leftist governments *try* to manage the economy, despite their failures
02:57 * VanessaE peeks in
02:57 Exio4 the govs try to manage the economy and they fail at it, yeah
02:57 Exio4 so what?
02:57 Exio4 if you left a country like peru without a "controlled economy", it would get into a default in less than 15 years
02:57 Peacock well, if you think it's a failure, i wish more people thought as you :P
02:58 Exio4 it is the main problem from "developing countries"
02:58 Peacock argentina had a default in 2001 i believe,
02:58 Exio4 yeah, that nice default
02:58 Exio4 do you know what happened since 1991 in argentina?
02:59 Exio4 let the economy manage the country
02:59 Peacock stagflation
02:59 Exio4 the inflation wasn't *that* bad
02:59 stormchaser3000 wow
02:59 Exio4 the first time it was "wow this is so amazing, we couldn't be better"
03:00 Exio4 after that nice moment happened, everything got worse and suddenly exploded in 2001
03:00 Peacock funny that coincided with the dot-com burst
03:01 Exio4 yeah, i saw that too
03:01 Peacock alot of fake money to invest abroad lol
03:01 stormchaser3000 you mean 9-11
03:01 stormchaser3000 9/11*
03:01 Exio4 9-11 isn't an important thing outside the US
03:01 stormchaser3000 oh ok
03:01 stormchaser3000 oh argintina
03:01 Peacock 9-11 had nothing to do with dot-com burst, these companies never made any money
03:02 stormchaser3000 wow ouch
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03:02 VanessaE 9/11 is an event that is best left in the past.
03:02 NakedFury I do remember all the crazy shit going on in 1999 about the future and pc and you needed special software to keep working, etc
03:02 VanessaE it was 12 freaking years ago.
03:03 NakedFury Jesus died thousands of years ago and people keep bringing it up
03:03 Peacock the Y2K scare? that was the first bubble of our new century :P
03:03 Exio4 lol, y2k
03:03 NakedFury y2k
03:03 NakedFury that was the word
03:03 stormchaser3000 well Jesus is still alive
03:03 VanessaE Peacock: in a way it kinda did:  the dot com bubble did help to build some parts of the economy, which is allegedly what the attack was all about.
03:03 NakedFury aa floppy discs
03:03 VanessaE jesus is a dead jewish zombie :P
03:04 Exio4 what economy?
03:04 Exio4 US'?
03:04 VanessaE yes.
03:04 Peacock the dot-com bubble relieved the economy from the early 90's recession, but it all was based on bullshit, like the mortgage crisis that came later, thank reageanomics for that :P
03:04 VanessaE oh don't get me wrong, I know it was based on bullshit :)
03:05 Peacock reaganomics and thatcherism did alot more damage to the economy than people give it credit for :P
03:05 VanessaE agreed.
03:05 NakedFury well it gave us reaganomics which sounds funny
03:06 NakedFury one positive thing about it
03:06 VanessaE "trickle down"?  sure, if you're already rich, maybe.  otherwise the only trickle you ever see happens to be rather thin and pale yellow in color.
03:10 Peacock trickle down is bullshit, rich people are rich by being dirt chip, the economy never advanced by people hoarding money
03:10 VanessaE yup
03:10 Peacock *chip = cheap
03:11 Peacock the reason corporations rose to prominence in the 70's and 80's was because of tax credits owing to investments
03:12 Peacock also why the 3rd world has so much debt :P
03:13 Peacock we lent so much more then they could afford to pay back
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03:33 Peacock Oh yes Marion
03:34 VanessaE ?
03:35 arsdragonfly_ joined #minetest
04:27 VanessaE night all.
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05:01 nore VanessaE, are you moderator on the forum?
05:02 Exio4 she is
05:02 nore is she there (is was partly to ping her ;))
05:02 nore ?
05:03 nore https://forum.minetest.net/vie​wtopic.php?pid=115414#p115414
05:03 nore <-- post that is bumping an old thread in discussion in other language, asking to speak English...
05:04 Menche plus it's in the other languages section, lol
05:04 * Menche doesn't think those spoilers were necessary
05:05 * nore too
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05:24 nore are there methods in the lua api to transform a unit vector in pitch/yaw and the reverse?
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06:24 FreeFull nore: There is probably a two-argument arctangent function
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06:33 cy1 Anyone know how the dam on VanessaE's server generates 4 million EU in technic?
06:34 cy1 The creator has everything locked down.
06:34 ruskie ask them?
06:37 cy1 ruskie: webdesigner97 has been gone for a while.
06:37 cy1 This is why I hate protect blocks.
06:40 cy1 He's probably just lying about it making that much power.
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07:33 nore Calinou, https://forum.minetest.net/vie​wtopic.php?pid=115414#p115414
07:34 Calinou done
07:34 * Calinou taunts with rocket launcher
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08:00 sfan5 hi everyone
08:04 Calinou hi
08:08 nore hi
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08:29 cy1 I just want a bow. Not a rocket launcher, not an assault rifle, just a bow. That kills mobs from a distance.
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08:37 JamesTait Good morning all; happy World Development Information Day! :-D
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09:59 john_minetest Hello everypony
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10:31 sfan5 noooo... reddit is down
10:34 kahrl did they vote it down?
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11:07 jojoa1997 hi
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11:22 Dan_D What do you think? https://forum.minetest.net/vie​wtopic.php?pid=115454#p115454
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11:41 germa hi!
11:42 germa i see many mod have fire dependences... is this? https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=745
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12:08 thexyz i-it's not like anything's wrong with this topic https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=7506
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12:14 PilzAdam Hello everyone!
12:20 germa hello!
12:20 germa and thank you for your mods :)
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12:26 sfan5 according to google php.net may harm my computer
12:30 thexyz don't visit it then
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12:40 us`0gb I think the flat map generator is broken: http://www.tiikoni.com/tis/view/?id=00887bf http://www.tiikoni.com/tis/view/?id=029b498
12:41 us`0gb Up in the sky, it creates a semi-repeating pattern of nodes.
12:41 us`0gb If you delete map.sqlite, the pattern changes, but it's still there.
12:42 sfan5 google broke its safe browsing system
12:43 us`0gb I've never heard of its safe browsing system.
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12:48 PilzAdam us`0gb, what mapgenerator have you choosen?
12:48 us`0gb v6, with the "flat" flag.
12:48 us`0gb When the "flat" flag is not used, they go away.
12:50 us`0gb Oops, it looks like it's indev, not v6. I'll test with v6 now though.
12:51 us`0gb (It's been a while since I started that map, I forgot.)
12:54 PilzAdam flat works for me in v6 and indev
12:59 us`0gb Weird ... THe bug won't repeat in other worlds .... but if I delete that world's map.sqlite, those structures are generated again.
13:02 us`0gb I'm very confused now.
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13:04 us`0gb And now it won't even happen on that one map ...
13:09 us`0gb I was getting some odd repeating PseudoRandom() stuff as well, but that's been cleared up now too.
13:09 us`0gb Maybe it was just some sort of system hickup.
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13:41 nore us`0gb, what mods are enabled in this world?
13:43 us`0gb nore: None that put stuff up in the sky (or rather, I removed the one "mod" that did, and it still happened). Also none that are released yet, besides characters and creative, neither of which do anything at mapgen time.
13:44 us`0gb Actually, the none that were enabled do anything at mapgen time, besides defining the mapgen aliases.
13:46 nore and what is in the other world files? (map_meta.txt, etc.)
13:47 us`0gb All the defaults, with the map generator being indev and the only flag being "flat".
13:47 nore could you paste it somewhere please?
13:47 nore (so I can see if I can reproduce that bug)
13:48 us`0gb I'll pastebin it, but the bug won't even repeat on my own machine any more.
13:48 nore even when copying the existing world and deleting map_meta.txt?
13:48 nore sry, map.sqlite
13:49 us`0gb I delete map.sqlite, and leave all other files intact.
13:49 nore and does it reproduce?
13:50 us`0gb http://pastebin.com/90Q8FwsU
13:50 us`0gb It did the first few times. Now it will not reproduce anymore.
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13:54 nore I can't reproduce... :(
13:55 us`0gb I know ... but I swear it happened. Honest.
13:56 nore I believe you (maybe there was a memory problem, and the increment for consecutive columns was changed, and that caused that offset)
13:57 IceCraft hi
13:57 us`0gb Hello!
13:57 nore hi
13:58 us`0gb A memory problem might explain why the patten was almost regular.
13:58 us`0gb It repeated, but with slight variance.
13:58 nore I ran once into similar pattern with a bug in my voxel manip code...
13:58 nore (except for the slight variation)
13:59 us`0gb Maybe it repeated perfectly until the next phase of the map generater altered it.
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14:05 VanessaE bbl
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14:21 BlockMen hi everyone
14:21 PilzAdam hey
14:21 us`0gb Hello!
14:23 BlockMen ah, PilzAdam, i need another ok for #928
14:30 PilzAdam BlockMen, didnt we already talked about that?
14:31 PilzAdam IIRC I said it would be better to set the listcolors per list, and be able to use images instead of plane colors
14:35 BlockMen IMO this could be an further improvement somewhen
14:35 BlockMen feel free to add this ;)
14:36 PilzAdam I would be fine with this, though we need to make sure that it can be done in the future without conflicts
14:37 BlockMen can you see anything that would/could cause this in my pull?
14:38 PilzAdam I mostly care about the API
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14:42 BlockMen that means no?
14:42 PilzAdam no, it doesnt mean no
14:43 PilzAdam it means: "think about things first"
14:44 BlockMen there are 3 possible answers on my question: yes (insert reasons), no, idk(insert reasons)
14:44 us`0gb It means one bad API function could haunt us all forever.
14:45 PilzAdam BlockMen, I want _you_ to answer that question
14:45 PilzAdam that means: 1) think about how the API for my suggestions would be and 2) think if it will conflict with your changes
14:45 PilzAdam since you just worked in that part of the code and know it better than me
14:49 BlockMen 1)IMO your suggestions would be better in a new definition since [listcolors] are already kinda large, but thats not necessary. 2)it would be possible to add your suggestions without conflicts to my changes
14:50 PilzAdam what would be a "new definition"
14:50 PilzAdam +?
14:51 BlockMen [listimg], [listdef], what ever makes sense and is not used already
14:51 BlockMen but how i said, not necesarry
14:54 BlockMen and i might know the code better, but im not as good as you at coding. keep that in mind ;)
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14:55 kaeza afternoon
14:56 BlockMen hi Jordach
14:58 Jordach Evergreen!
14:58 Jordach > A new java update is availible
14:59 Jordach get fucked Java, i only have you because most things don't work due to lazy ass programmers
14:59 * us`0gb doesn't know if he even has Java installed
15:00 * BlockMen has no Java
15:00 * PilzAdam has java
15:01 PilzAdam BlockMen, who else has agreed on the pull request?
15:01 BlockMen sfan5
15:03 PilzAdam guiFormSpecMenu.cpp:607 doesnt this change allow more parts than allowed?
15:06 * Jordach pokes Evergreen again
15:06 us`0gb It seems I have no Java.
15:06 Evergreen pokity
15:06 Evergreen what does thou need?
15:07 Jordach you know
15:07 Evergreen of course
15:07 Jordach same place again
15:07 Jordach (ip hasn't changed over 24 hours afaik)
15:07 BlockMen PilzAdam, it allows to add another parameter now that is only used if present
15:08 BlockMen in this case "true/false" to clip background image of formspec
15:08 PilzAdam wouldnt it be better to change it to if(parts == 3 || parts == 4) ?
15:09 PilzAdam so the "Invalid background element(" error is also thrown when there are 5 or more parts
15:10 PilzAdam also: is it intentional that the variables in guiFormSpecMenu.h are not initialized?
15:10 * Jordach pokes sfan5
15:10 * sfan5 pokes Jordach
15:11 BlockMen i dont see the reason for that, all "useless" parameters are not processed (IIRC it is somewhere else done that way in formspecs)
15:13 PilzAdam https://github.com/BlockMen/minetest/​blob/77ec68fa0870c624ef46b0040dd48833​fa221be2/src/guiFormSpecMenu.cpp#L642
15:13 PilzAdam all the surrounding code does it like this
15:15 BlockMen hmm, seems i was wrong. ok, i will change it
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15:18 PilzAdam I have to go, bbl
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15:58 markveidemanis Hello!
15:58 us`0gb Hello!
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16:07 kaeza anyone with windows cares to do some testing?
16:07 Jordach yes
16:08 kaeza Jordach, install homedecor and see if it bugs out
16:08 Jordach > homedecor
16:08 Jordach feck no
16:08 * us`0gb 's windows are made of glass and are incapable of software testing
16:08 Jordach ...if you pirate windows, do you have cracked windows ;P
16:09 us`0gb Probably. But if you're going to pirate something, why pirate THAT?
16:09 kaeza windows are already broken anyway, so how can you crack it :P
16:09 us`0gb I've seen a desktop wallpaper that says "Windows XP Pirated Edition".
16:09 kaeza +?
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16:17 dafull97 hey guys
16:19 kaeza hi
16:19 dafull97 who is here?
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16:19 dafull97 i know you are kaeza
16:19 us`0gb Hello!
16:20 dafull97 us`0gb, hey... i have some ideas
16:20 us`0gb Ideas for what?
16:21 dafull97 Minetest Servers
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16:30 Jordach hello Calinou
16:30 Jordach next week will be community map week again :D
16:31 Calinou hi
16:31 us`0gb dafull97, are you going to tell us your ideas?
16:32 dafull97 ohh, sorry one minute please i have t o finish my owkr
16:33 us`0gb No worries. But it's odd to bring it up if you don't plan on discussing it.
16:33 NakedFury very odd
16:34 dafull97 ok, back... and we should make 2-3 servers that are Minetest's and really large maps yea?
16:35 us`0gb I don't understand. Like one map shared between servers?
16:37 dafull97 no, like 3-4 servers that are minetest's and not ran by the community... and all them have there own maps... and like one in the midd. of the us, eastcoast and westcoast...
16:37 dafull97 minimumize lag... :)
16:37 NakedFury that costs $$
16:37 dafull97 yes, it does
16:37 dafull97 does minetest take donations?
16:38 us`0gb Can Minetest afford more servers? If so, is that what the money should be spent on? Perhaps not, to both questions.
16:39 dafull97 well it was just and idea.. =D
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16:41 us`0gb There would also be argument as to what "mods" to have installed. An interesting idea, but I doubt it would work out.
16:44 NakedFury https://www.facebook.com/p​hoto.php?v=208728115975710
16:44 NakedFury check that out
16:44 NakedFury its a video
16:47 us`0gb The video won't play without Flash, which I don't have. WHat's it about?
16:49 reactor joined #minetest
16:53 reactor markveidemanis: o/
16:53 reactor How's the science?
16:56 Wuzzy Wow, there is another person on this big, cold planet who does not have Flash. I did not expect that. There is still hope for humankind. :-)
17:00 reactor I do.
17:00 reactor It doesn't work with my current browser, though.
17:01 reactor And I do not like the idea of Flash.
17:01 nore Wuzzy, have you access to the main page of the wiki?
17:01 Wuzzy Yes, I have read access. XD
17:01 nore Because it says that all craft recipes are on "Crafting" page
17:02 kaeza I don't use flash because performance, but still enable it sometimes for old-as-ass games
17:02 Wuzzy BlockMen has write access on the main page.
17:02 nore btw, why has there been no changes, lately?
17:02 Wuzzy OMG
17:02 Wuzzy WTF is wrong with you
17:03 Wuzzy just because I don’t edit the wiki all day any more does not mean its dead...
17:03 Wuzzy xD
17:03 nore no, of course :p
17:03 Wuzzy I edited the wiki a lot in last days. I think I need a break
17:03 nore I was just surprised since there were 200 edits a day previously
17:04 Wuzzy Oh, there is another reason:
17:04 Wuzzy Because YOU didn’t edit something :P :P :P
17:04 BlockMen where i have write access?
17:04 Wuzzy Onto the main page
17:04 Wuzzy of the wiki
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17:05 BlockMen yes, why?
17:05 Wuzzy well yes we were talking about that the “Crafting” description is not accurate anymore
17:05 Wuzzy Well I removed the crafting recipes from the page and replaced it with a /description/ of crafting and links to important crafting pages
17:06 Wuzzy I did that because the redundancy was simply not managable anymore
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17:06 Wuzzy having to upate multiple pages for 1 recipe was a pain in the ass
17:06 BlockMen looks good i guess
17:06 BlockMen any suggestion for the new subtitle on mainpage
17:06 Wuzzy But the description on the main page is of course wrong now.
17:07 reactor BlockMen: "free goatse for everyone"
17:07 Wuzzy “How to craft.”
17:07 reactor Yes.
17:07 reactor "How to craft a goatse."
17:07 nore Wuzzy, wouldn't it be possible to make something that would update all craft recipes on the wiki (and "as a crating ingredient") with a single recipe?
17:07 Wuzzy You mean, like automagically?
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17:08 BlockMen Wuzzy, done
17:08 nore yes
17:08 Wuzzy good
17:08 Wuzzy nore: There you have your edit. :D
17:09 nore I don't even know the basic commands of the wiki... :(
17:09 Wuzzy What do you mean with “commands”?
17:10 reactor Wuzzy: "right shoulder-hut!" etc.
17:10 Wuzzy WTF?
17:10 Wuzzy What are you talking about?
17:10 reactor Commands eh.
17:10 reactor Would you like to talk about it?
17:10 nore I mean, how you create a table, a craft recipe, etc.
17:11 Wuzzy Ah THIS
17:11 Wuzzy This is called “syntax”.
17:11 nore well, I don't know how this works...
17:12 Wuzzy Since the wiki runs on the MediaWiki software, you have to look on www.mediawiki.org
17:12 Wuzzy I learned most stuff there, too.
17:12 Wuzzy Tables are a bit more complex.
17:13 Wuzzy I recommond starting with simple texts and simple formatting so you can get  a feeling how MediaWiki works.
17:13 Wuzzy after that, you can still try to learn tables
17:14 us`0gb Just don't use sudo on the wiki. Pretty much all the other commands are mostly safe.
17:14 reactor ?!
17:14 Wuzzy aaah i totally forgot
17:14 Wuzzy today is 24th october
17:14 reactor Are you talking about UNIX or about some web interface thing?
17:14 Wuzzy this means it is International Troll Day
17:15 Wuzzy this is why you are all trolling each other
17:15 reactor No, it's International Cabbage Day.
17:15 Wuzzy quot era demonstrandum
17:15 reactor We're all eating cabbage to get disgestion.
17:15 us`0gb Web interface thing, reactor. We were joking about the use of the term "commands" when it should have been "syntax".
17:15 reactor ...in order to go to the toilet at the same time and flush it in sync with others.
17:15 reactor And see what happens.
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17:16 reactor john_minetest: o/
17:16 john_minetest Good evening everypony
17:16 reactor You offend me by that statement.
17:16 reactor And... would you like to talk about it?
17:16 us`0gb If you're not a pony, it isn't directed at you.
17:17 reactor Oh good.
17:17 us`0gb SO he isn't calling you a pony, he's just ignoring you.
17:17 * Jordach isn't a pony
17:17 us`0gb *So
17:17 reactor Would you like to talk about it, us`0gb?
17:17 us`0gb I'm fairly certain my keys are too small for ponies.
17:17 us`0gb reactor, talk about what?
17:17 reactor Your keys?
17:18 us`0gb Keyboard keys.
17:18 reactor Why does their size make you worry?
17:18 reactor Are they smaller than others' keys?
17:18 Wuzzy Did you know that my IRC program has a feature called “ignore”? Just letting you know.
17:18 us`0gb I'm not worries, just saying I couldn't be here if I were a pony.
17:18 reactor Wuzzy has just ignored everyone. *foreveralone.jpg*
17:18 reactor us`0gb: but the keys
17:19 reactor us`0gb: you wish you had bigger keyboard?
17:19 reactor Does that mean something?
17:19 us`0gb I tell people my chat client has an ignore feature when they're being annoying, then I just ignore them myself. But I don't think it actually has that feature.
17:19 us`0gb Bigger keyboard? No, my keyboard is fine.
17:20 reactor /ignore is lacking purpose, somewhat.
17:20 reactor You can't see the ignoree's reaction.
17:20 reactor So it's no fun.
17:20 us`0gb Jordach, it's XChat.
17:21 Jordach us`0gb, it has /ignore <nick> all
17:21 reactor XChat... oh gosh, people are still using that _.
17:21 us`0gb Oh? I didn't know that.
17:21 us`0gb reactor, what would you recommend and why?
17:21 reactor idk... something text-based
17:21 us`0gb Ah. No wonder then.
17:21 reactor IRC is not particulary in need of GUI.
17:22 us`0gb Text-based options lack that point-and-click ease.
17:22 reactor I/O err. 35887: imcompatible tastes.
17:22 us`0gb Yeah. At least both options are available.
17:23 reactor It's tempting to say point and click is unnecessary in IRC. So I've just said it.
17:23 reactor It's unnecessary in most things.
17:23 reactor Only makes you lift your right hand from the keyboard.
17:23 kaeza let's all go back to teletypes because GUIs and consoles are evil and unnecessary
17:23 us`0gb It's unnecessary almost everywhere. That doesn't mean it's not nice to have.
17:23 kaeza because fuck technology advancements
17:23 reactor I'm not saying they have no application, kaeza.
17:24 reactor I'm saying they're used inappropriately.
17:24 Wuzzy so nore did this help you now or not?
17:24 reactor They're fine in drawing programs, games and other visual things.
17:24 john_minetest GUI: Is it possible to configure the minetest gui to look different (like in minecraft for example)? It is possible for images in formspec but never seen it for menu and similar
17:24 reactor But the rodent must be kept from text processing.
17:25 khonkhortisan The menu has an image in the credits
17:25 reactor us`0gb: would you like to go back to keyboard sizes?
17:25 reactor You know. I still wonder what made you say that your keyboard is big.
17:26 us`0gb No, I said it was too small for a pony to use.
17:26 reactor Or is it that your keyboard is too small, and you wish you had a bigger one, and you're in denial?
17:26 john_minetest khonkhortisan: there are images but the buttons and similar look a bit... naked.
17:26 john_minetest Like a coder designed them.
17:26 us`0gb No, my keyboard is just fine, as long as no pony needs to use it.
17:27 reactor Oh. Pardon me. You weren't stating it's big.
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17:27 us`0gb Right.
17:27 reactor Keyboard enlargement?
17:27 khonkhortisan the buttons are a little darker than the default irrlicht theme
17:27 * Jordach updates clementine to 1.2
17:27 us`0gb No, the keyboard is fine.
17:28 reactor Alright.
17:28 Jordach the GIT 1.2 (before release) finally started to fuck up
17:28 reactor john_minetest: did you know there is a link between paraphilia and pony stuff?
17:29 Jordach and not it's stopped crashing on playing back internet streams
17:29 Jordach now*
17:29 reactor wow*
17:30 john_minetest reactor: So you mean a lot of coders and over 50% of the pirate party might have paraphilia?
17:30 us`0gb No wonder I'm not into ponies. I have aphilia.
17:30 reactor john_minetest: ...probably. I haven't seen those.
17:31 john_minetest I am not into ponies either but since PilzAdam has copyrighted "Hello everybody" I had to choose the alternative.
17:31 john_minetest And it was Calinou's idea. But he isn't in ponies either...  :D
17:31 us`0gb "Hello everyone!".
17:31 john_minetest This is also used by PilzAdam quite often.
17:31 us`0gb It's similar, bit not copyrighted.
17:32 reactor Hello every... Uhm. Every... Okay, let it be "everycomputer".
17:32 john_minetest It is also copyrighted by PilzAdam but it is not used that often
17:32 john_minetest And "everycomputer" is might be a link to objectophile.
17:32 us`0gb Why is he copyrighting these things? And how is he getting that approved?
17:33 fairiestoy joined #minetest
17:34 reactor john_minetest: what I was saying is, "hello everypony" has a bad context.
17:34 reactor Namely, the so-called "brony" community.
17:35 reactor These are problematic types to encounter.
17:35 john_minetest In my opinion everybody can like whatever he/she wants. If people like little moralic ponies designed for little girls I don't care. If people pray to their computer I don't care.
17:35 reactor I do things in the name of Cornholio.
17:36 Jordach !stfu reactor
17:36 MinetestBot reactor, someone thinks you need to shut the fuck up before you get muted.
17:36 reactor ...not. Alrighty.
17:36 Jordach i've wanted to test that for a while now
17:36 reactor What if...
17:36 reactor !stfu MinetestBot
17:36 MinetestBot MinetestBot, someone thinks you need to shut the fuck up before you get muted.
17:37 us`0gb john_minetest, I agree, I don't know why people jump down others' throats about My Little Pony.
17:37 reactor No, nothing has crashed, apparently.
17:37 us`0gb I like to think my time is too valuable for My Little Pony, but this isn't the case for everyone. Some peoples' time is too valuable for Minetest, yet here we are.
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17:38 Jordach my computing teacher knows why people like MLP - everyone said we need an intervention
17:38 Wuzzy Quick question: When I try to join a server I never joined before and it requires a password. What does happen if I enter into the server the first time?
17:38 reactor Wuzzy: the password is created.
17:39 fairiestoy Your player file will be created with several informations
17:39 us`0gb If it requires a password and you don't have it, you can't get in.
17:39 reactor Wuzzy: so that nobody else can log in with your name.
17:39 Wuzzy okay
17:39 Wuzzy this means the first password is created, too
17:39 reactor I wonder... one could abuse the password system.
17:40 Wuzzy oh boy this seems cumbersome
17:40 reactor Write a shell script that launches minetest with different usernames.
17:40 us`0gb THere might be a hole in that, if you send control characters. I don't know.
17:40 Wuzzy It would be insecure to have the same password for all servers
17:40 Jordach nope.avi
17:40 reactor (it would take long to clutter up the server's disk full)
17:40 Wuzzy why “nope”?
17:40 reactor (but it's _theoretically_ possible!)
17:40 Jordach Wuzzy, nobody's worked mine out
17:41 reactor Or is there flood prevention for logins?
17:41 Wuzzy Well.
17:41 reactor Or for registered users?
17:41 Wuzzy I theoretically could open a server
17:41 us`0gb ... I wonder if THAT's what the DDoSer did to me ...
17:41 Jordach my redcrab 0.4-dev20120106 password has been the same for almost 2 YEARS
17:41 Wuzzy which requires a password
17:41 reactor I think it would be useful to have "new users per day" limit.
17:41 Wuzzy BAM! Soon I get a lot of default passwords
17:41 Wuzzy :-)
17:41 Wuzzy No cracking skills required AT ALL
17:42 Wuzzy This is why I say its insecure
17:42 us`0gb I think it would be a good idea to store the last time an account was used. That way, you could clear out all unused accounts.
17:42 reactor Yes, that, too.
17:42 Wuzzy And by this method I could obtain YOUR password, too. (assuming you use the same PW everywhere)
17:42 reactor But that still doesn't cancel the possibility of "new user" flood, us`0gb.
17:42 fairiestoy us, write a mod for it :P
17:42 us`0gb I actually plan to write that in a Lua plugin, but C++ would be better, to put it in the player's file.
17:43 reactor mk
17:43 Wuzzy ?
17:43 reactor _
17:43 us`0gb reactor, the new user flood prevention would prevent legitimate users.
17:43 Wuzzy A look into my server files would be enough
17:43 reactor us`0gb: well... how about, say, 100 users per day?
17:43 monkeycoder joined #minetest
17:43 reactor us`0gb: it's unlikely to be hit by "legit" users.
17:44 reactor us`0gb: on loaded servers, it could be raised
17:44 fairiestoy Wuzzy: I see no advantage in doing that anyway.
17:44 Wuzzy You mean, no advantage in abusing other’s accounts?
17:44 fairiestoy yep
17:44 us`0gb One hundred attack accounts are created. Then the attacker must stop. But then a REAL user tries to join.
17:44 fairiestoy This is a free sandbox game. What the hell should one do with another account?
17:45 Wuzzy You are right but I fear not everyone on this cold, big planet is sane.
17:45 us`0gb Wuzzy, so true.
17:45 reactor us`0gb: so what, put a message in the log
17:45 Wuzzy Some ppl do cracking stuff for teh lulz
17:45 fairiestoy True, but then i just would create another account and that it :P
17:45 reactor us`0gb: and let users mail complaints
17:45 reactor us`0gb: that's what mailing lists are for
17:45 us`0gb It's a start, but still not good.
17:46 Wuzzy then we could disable the password system altogether because it is basicly pointless
17:46 us`0gb Plus then you have to expose your email address. I personally expose mine all the time, but other people might not want to.
17:46 reactor us`0gb: so what?
17:46 Wuzzy oh and the sandbox argument does not hold I think
17:46 reactor us`0gb: you'll still get spammed sooner or later, everyone does.
17:46 Wuzzy because players can *own* nodes on some servers
17:47 fairiestoy Btw, somebody has experience with debian on a Samsung netbook n455? My backlight is not adjustable.
17:47 Wuzzy Never heard of griefers?
17:47 fairiestoy And xbacklight is not working
17:47 us`0gb fairiestoy, what desktop interface?
17:47 john_minetest reactor: It would be easier to clutter up the server's disk by creating server log messages.
17:48 reactor john_minetest: interesting idea.
17:48 john_minetest Like when you dig
17:48 fairiestoy Currently Gnome. Although i like to change to lxde
17:48 us`0gb fairiestoy, I can't adjust my backlight with some desktop interfaces.
17:48 john_minetest But it takes ages
17:48 reactor It does.
17:48 reactor And it can be avoided by log rotation.
17:48 us`0gb GNOME? Okay, sorry, I don't know then. It works in GNOME for me.
17:48 john_minetest Maybe by automatically running commands that get logged
17:48 reactor Or plain fifo instead of logfile.
17:48 us`0gb It must be a different issue.
17:48 us`0gb #debian ?
17:48 reactor debilian
17:49 john_minetest reactor: Normal people use an own /var partition for their server.
17:49 fairiestoy Yeah, have to try it there then. Thanks anyway for trying. Just suddenly came up with it and asked it here
17:49 reactor No, john_minetest, normal people virtualise.
17:51 john_minetest reactor: Yeah, they virtualise an own /var partition
17:51 reactor No, almost whole system.
17:52 reactor So that servers can't harm the main OS.
17:52 reactor In case of tampering.
17:54 reactor john_minetest: btw, facility?
17:55 john_minetest_ joined #minetest
17:55 us`0gb Who virtualizes, apart from those using online services? Do many people running it on their own system virtualize?
17:55 john_cephalopoda joined #minetest
17:56 reactor us`0gb: "people running it on their own system" does not imply "normal", "proper", etc.
17:56 john_minetest_ joined #minetest
17:56 rsiska joined #minetest
17:56 john_cephalopoda joined #minetest
17:56 reactor In general, it's advised to use virtualisation for whatever external services you provide.
17:56 reactor Especially if that machine also serves as a desktop.
17:56 us`0gb Proper does not imply "normal". You said "normal".
17:57 us`0gb Normal people do things in an incredibly insecure way.
17:57 reactor "average" is not "normal"
17:58 us`0gb "average" is a lot closer than "skilled" to "normal".
17:58 reactor Sadly.
17:58 * Jordach is just plainly grumpy
17:59 Jordach im not a fan of youtubers reccomend minetest -- griefers, assholes and general idiots
17:59 Jordach reccomending*
17:59 reactor Oh well. I made a mistake calling skilled people normal.
17:59 cisoun joined #minetest
17:59 reactor Unfortunately, skilled people are rarity nowadays.
18:00 us`0gb For sure.
18:00 Jordach us`0gb = reactor
18:00 us`0gb How did you know?
18:00 reactor Jordach: I have to confess. That's true.
18:01 us`0gb Hmm. I might look into virtualization when I have time. I run Minetest on a headless server, not a desktop, but I don't yet virtualize.
18:01 * Jordach should stop with the omnipresence
18:01 reactor us`0gb: me, too :)
18:01 BlockMen Jordach != Jordach!?
18:01 Jordach haha BlockMen
18:01 Jordach no
18:02 reactor I'm still testing the services, and their uptime is too small to care about virtualisation now.
18:02 Jordach and im in a +S channel with +i on
18:02 reactor I mean, I only run them observed.
18:02 Jordach if i cant join it then im false :P
18:02 reactor Jordach = BlockMen
18:02 BlockMen hell, no
18:02 BlockMen im PilzAdam :D
18:02 reactor Oh.
18:02 Jordach <- can't speak German
18:02 reactor Hai PlizAdam!
18:03 BlockMen at least Jordach thinks i am^^
18:03 reactor s/Hai/Hay/
18:03 us`0gb Well, PilzAdam admitted he was Jordach, so ...
18:03 khonkhortisan Sie nein sprechen
18:03 us`0gb Jordach == PilzAdam == BlockMen
18:03 Jordach oh this is bullshit
18:03 reactor "True"
18:03 * BlockMen confused now
18:03 * khonkhortisan is me
18:04 reactor Would you like to talk about confusion, BlockMen?
18:04 BlockMen umm...
18:04 BlockMen no
18:04 reactor Why not? Does something make you uncomfortable about being confused?
18:06 khonkhortisan '!=' ≠ '≠'
18:07 us`0gb != == ≠
18:07 us`0gb The first is used in code, the second in mathematics.
18:07 reactor That uncomfortable moment when your font does not have the appropriate character, and X uses some substitute.
18:07 us`0gb It's the mathematical "not equal to" sign.
18:08 reactor != is used to substitute ≠ where you can't use ≠
18:08 reactor reactor != reactor
18:08 khonkhortisan I wish to use ≠ in code
18:08 khonkhortisan and ÷
18:08 us`0gb "≠" is hard to type.
18:08 reactor khonkhortisan: you would have to edit your keyboard map
18:08 reactor ы
18:09 khonkhortisan compose + / + =
18:09 reactor ййййй ййййй
18:09 khonkhortisan I love my compose key
18:09 TheLastProject If you'd use that in any project I need to work on later my first vim command would be ":%s/≠/!=/g"
18:09 khonkhortisan compose + : + -
18:09 khonkhortisan then I could require changing it back just before the commit
18:10 khonkhortisan I'd be annoying if I did that
18:10 TheLastProject Who says I'll commit back to you?
18:10 TheLastProject I'll fork and keep everything to myself
18:10 TheLastProject You can change it yourself :P
18:10 khonkhortisan then I'd commit to you
18:10 TheLastProject Evil...
18:10 reactor "Am I evil? Yes, I am!"
18:11 khonkhortisan inherently, according to school.
18:11 us`0gb How so?
18:11 JackGruff joined #minetest
18:11 reactor khonkhortisan: ?
18:12 reactor Don't you say.
18:12 khonkhortisan "Are people inherently good or inherently evil?" I don't like the question, but it has been answered in a way that makes it seem official.
18:12 khonkhortisan it involved the book, "Lord of the Flies"
18:13 Jordach People turn animalistic for power, but when a larger force, it stops.
18:14 Jordach larger force appears*
18:14 Evergreen joined #minetest
18:14 TheLastProject The world "animalistic" here is quite out of place. Many animals treat each other properly even without a larger force
18:14 TheLastProject But I think "animalistic", "beastly" and "humane" are quite bad words
18:14 us`0gb Also, humans ARE animals, so we are always like animals, as we are like ourselves.
18:14 TheLastProject They all revolve around the basic, purely wrong, idea that humans are the "good guys"
18:15 khonkhortisan I am not an animal!
18:15 khonkhortisan I forgot who said that
18:15 us`0gb A lier, that's who.
18:15 khonkhortisan some actor
18:16 PilzAdam joined #minetest
18:16 khonkhortisan Until they find the missing link, I'm not a monkey
18:16 khonkhortisan /ape/chimpanzee/gorilla
18:16 TheLastProject Must refrain... from calling you... the missing link...
18:16 khonkhortisan lol
18:17 us`0gb khonkhortisan, you're not a monkey, but you are a mammal. Mammals are animals.
18:18 khonkhortisan My mental power and ability to take over the world as a civilization separates me in some way, even if not by the word "animal"
18:18 reactor Just read it.
18:18 nyuszika7h joined #minetest
18:18 reactor "animalistic" And what we get? Bronies!
18:18 reactor s/we/do we/
18:18 reactor I've got where they come from!
18:18 sapier joined #minetest
18:18 us`0gb khonkhortisan, that would be because of your theory of mind, but you're still an animal.
18:19 * khonkhortisan barks
18:19 reactor The most scary thing is not bronies, though. It's that they feed that stuff to children who have no judgement yet!
18:19 JackGruff but if we don't feed things to children, how will we save them from damnation?
18:21 us`0gb Trust me, there's much scarier things than mere pony-lovers out there. I'd tell you what, but I'd rather not start an argument here.
18:22 kaeza welcome to the internet! come, I'll be your guide
18:23 reactor I've already come.
18:23 reactor Today.
18:29 proller joined #minetest
18:32 reactor Oh. I mean, come home.
18:44 Ritchie joined #minetest
18:46 PilzAdam I think its funny how github tells me that I should tell my government to use github
18:47 reactor PlizAdam: no one makes you.
18:47 Jordach PilzAdam, are chests flammable
18:47 PilzAdam no, AFAIK
18:47 TheLastProject Governments should host their own Gitlab thing or so
18:48 reactor Hitlerlab
18:48 Jordach curb the racism reactor
18:49 Jordach not everyone in germany is a facist
18:49 PilzAdam reactor is a troll
18:49 PilzAdam Jordach, dont feed him
18:49 reactor Jordach: please note I didn't even know you're talking about Germany.
18:49 reactor I'm not ignorant enough to assume that.
18:50 khonkhortisan But you are ignorant enough to assume North is up
18:50 rsiska joined #minetest
18:51 reactor Depends on relative to what.
18:52 us`0gb North is perpendicular to up.
18:52 us`0gb So are south, east, and west.
18:52 reactor You're talking about coordinates in drawing?
18:52 reactor Then yes.
18:52 khonkhortisan Maps are normally drawn with north at the top, while south (or east/west) could be at the top instead
18:53 khonkhortisan Pencils are normally printed right-handed, but could be printed left-handed
18:54 reactor Pencils?
18:55 reactor They're hexagonal.
18:55 khonkhortisan Yes, pencils. If you hold one in your left hand the text will be upside-down.
18:56 reactor Meth?
18:56 khonkhortisan ?
18:56 Calinou joined #minetest
18:57 reactor Calinuo: o/
19:07 JackGruff https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=1598
19:08 JackGruff why hasn't that been moved yet?
19:09 Jordach Mega Blocks [BETA] 0.9: http://i.imgur.com/5phUqUi.png
19:10 john_minetest joined #minetest
19:11 kaeza [17:00:34] * reactor se ha marchado (Quit: ELIZA/IRC)
19:11 kaeza makes sense
19:13 RealBadAngel joined #minetest
19:13 VanessaE kaeza: re: signs_lib on windows... weird.
19:13 VanessaE hi all
19:13 VanessaE hi RBA
19:13 RealBadAngel hi
19:13 kaeza hey RBA, V
19:14 kaeza VanessaE, yep
19:14 john_minetest_ joined #minetest
19:14 kaeza windows distinguishes between "binary" and "text" files
19:14 john_minetest_ woah, all those disconnects
19:14 kaeza which is stupid to say the least
19:15 john_minetest_ windows is stupid
19:15 john_minetest__ joined #minetest
19:15 kaeza again? O_o
19:15 VanessaE john_minetest_: it's windows, so "stupid" should be assumed :P
19:16 john_minetest__ oracle install caused network disruptions
19:16 * Jordach slaps VanessaE
19:16 PilzAdam hello john_minetest underscore underscore
19:16 john_cephalopoda joined #minetest
19:16 john_minetest goooood
19:17 john_minetest I hate network disconnects
19:18 john_minetest and bluescreens
19:22 Jordach john_minetest, https://forum.minetest.net/vie​wtopic.php?pid=115515#p115515
19:23 Jordach im playtesting the map currently
19:23 Jordach (closed beta with Evergreen)
19:24 Wuzzy Is there any height limit for L-system trees?
19:24 PilzAdam yes
19:25 Wuzzy how high?
19:25 PilzAdam cant remember exactly, but the vmanip that is used to build the trees only loads a certain amount of blocks
19:25 Wuzzy Is it larger than 100?
19:29 VanessaE Jordach: I stand behind my statement.  Windows == stupid.  no, strike that.  Windows == stoopid.
19:29 Wuzzy rofl
19:29 VanessaE (Linux is stupid too, just less so)
19:29 Jordach you want to talk to my friend learn_more
19:29 Jordach he works in MSVC for a livingf
19:29 Jordach -f
19:29 VanessaE all OS's suck. some just suck more or less than others :)
19:29 Mati^1 joined #minetest
19:29 TheLastProject ^ That
19:29 Mati^1 re
19:30 Wuzzy I can remember a song called “Every OS sucks.”
19:30 TheLastProject Computers are a complete mess altogether, but there's no way to start over and do it right
19:30 TheLastProject The only thing we can (and do) do now is built abstraction layer over abstraction layer, killing performance but making it nicer to work with
19:30 Wuzzy Ah, I found it: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPRvc2UMeMI>
19:32 john_minetest Jordach: Looks nice. Sorry for the late answer, I am a bit under stress because I have emails to answer and a VM to set up :)
19:32 VanessaE TheLastProject: there is a way - the problem is current OS's are so entrenched that it may never actually be possble.
19:32 VanessaE possible*
19:32 VanessaE though Android did pretty much trounce iOS....
19:32 VanessaE so who knows.
19:32 TheLastProject Android is a mess at the core as well :P
19:33 TheLastProject But we can't really restart, it would support so little, and people wouldn't accept it
19:33 VanessaE perhaps, but I meant that from the standpoint of "new guy walks in, suddenly old guy is unloved and unwanted"
19:33 TheLastProject Hmm
19:33 VanessaE we can restart.  it's all a matter of desire.
19:33 VanessaE look at QNX for example
19:34 VanessaE that one had (has?) potential
19:34 VanessaE but the marketing behind it is...lacking.
19:34 VanessaE or Contiki, on the 8-bit classic platforms.
19:35 VanessaE what are they doing right that the rest of the world seems to always do wrong?
19:35 Evergreen joined #minetest
19:35 john_minetest_ joined #minetest
19:37 john_minetest_ i guess i lose connect when I start the oracle installer...
19:37 VanessaE memory overload?
19:38 us^0gb joined #minetest
19:38 john_minetest_ I don't think. Maybe it connects to the internet and interrupts my connection
19:38 VanessaE could be
19:39 john_minetest Oh
19:39 john_minetest "Installing network features will reset your network connection..."
19:40 PilzAdam bye
19:41 john_minetest_ joined #minetest
19:42 VanessaE john_minetest: that's pretty dumb - why should a userland app have that capability? O.o
19:42 us^0gb Because it's Windows.
19:42 john_minetest_ It is an installer for VirtualBox for windows
19:43 john_minetest_ us^0gb: +1
19:44 john_minetest joined #minetest
19:47 us{0gb joined #minetest
19:51 john_minetest joined #minetest
19:52 john_minetest windows... just had the 4th bluescreen today
19:53 fairiestoy throw it out a window
19:54 TheLastProject john_minetest: One time I had a blue screen while it was shutting down, which I did while I was leaving the house. Smart system decided that rebooting was the correct solution and spent hours wasting energy while I was gone
19:55 john_minetest It is due to some incompatibility with VBox. It's an <wordplay> oracle </wordplay> to me.
19:55 anunakki joined #minetest
20:04 Calinou desktop will follow
20:04 * Calinou updated netbook to xubuntu 13.10 :>
20:13 us{0gb I fixed the faulty sorting of file names on my system, and it had the unexpected result of fixing the faulty sorting in Minetest. Bonus!
20:14 us{0gb Sorting of nodes in the creative inventory, I mean.
20:15 VanessaE bbl
20:17 Miner_48er joined #minetest
20:20 roboman2444 joined #minetest
20:24 Jordach joined #minetest
20:25 Jordach btw, who moved my post from post your screenshots to the floating islands thread
20:25 Jordach or i might have posted it there
20:25 Jordach i dont fucking know :P
20:27 cy1 hey
20:27 cy1 heyyyyy
20:27 cy1 a lost gamer built a dam
20:28 cy1 does it work? how could a dam work?
20:28 cy1 To generate technic power I mean.
20:28 cy1 (obviously it works to block water)
20:33 Miner_48er flowing water on water mills
20:35 Wuzzy2 joined #minetest
20:40 Shambles_ joined #minetest
20:48 LazyJ joined #minetest
20:51 BlockMen gd night everyone
20:51 BlockMen left #minetest
21:19 q66 joined #minetest
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21:47 Warr1024 joined #minetest
21:49 Warr1024 so like 2 months ago I wrote a simple portability fix for minetest that got it working on OpenBSD again.
21:49 Warr1024 but when I tested it, it didn't work, and it looked like some kind of unrelated issue.
21:50 Warr1024 well, I just rebased it onto master and did a clean build, and lo and behold, it mysteriously now works.
21:50 Warr1024 no idea why it wasn't working before, but I'm guessing I either had crap in my local env, or the original commit wasn't based on the right revision or something.
21:51 us{0gb That's great that it works now. I wonder why it didn't before.
21:51 Warr1024 I got a pull req in for it.
21:51 Warr1024 965
21:59 us{0gb Awesome. I hope it gets pulled, portability is great.
22:06 john_minetest +1
22:10 Warr1024 heh, I was sort of hoping to bump into a dev in here, to bring it to their attention
22:10 Warr1024 ah well
22:12 Warr1024 I'm hoping at least 0.4.8 doesn't end up getting released breaking portability with platforms that worked before.
22:12 Warr1024 though I'm only currently in a position to test OpenBSD and Debian, and I'm sure a lot of people would notice breakage on Debian at least as quickly as I do.
22:13 sapier *g* difficult to maintain more and more platforms while time passes warr ;-)
22:15 Warr1024 yeah, I know
22:15 Warr1024 but there are some baseline standard things you can do that tend to work well enough on most platforms.
22:16 sapier I'm trying for a week now to get windows builds working ....
22:16 Warr1024 of course, I could just provide my portability patches to OpenBSD's ports collection just to fix OpenBSD, but as long as they don't break the other platforms, I think they'd be better for upstream.
22:16 Warr1024 Windows is broken?
22:16 sapier partly
22:16 Warr1024 wow, that's kinda surprising.
22:16 sapier I can't get localization work on vs2012 build
22:16 sapier mingw32 with current gettext is fine
22:17 sapier vs2010 seems to be fine too (last official minetest version)
22:17 Warr1024 why using VS?
22:17 sapier but gettext guys don't support vs any longer due to gpl licensing issues
22:18 Warr1024 most of the open-source ported-from-*n*x stuff I've seen out there tends to be built with cygwin or mingw.
22:18 Warr1024 Of course, the mingw stuff just works, while the cygwin stuff requires you to install tons of crap...
22:18 sapier mingw doesn't just work too ;-)
22:18 Warr1024 hm, yeah, I've had some minor dealings with it in the past
22:19 sapier still not having current vs support is an issue
22:19 Warr1024 I'm kind of hoping that OpenBSD support in minetest continues unofficially, at least on a "as long as there's somebody to test and submit patches" basis.
22:20 Warr1024 I can't imagine trying to get something from the not-originally-written-in-VS world into VS.
22:20 sapier it'd be silly not to include those patches
22:20 Warr1024 which patches?
22:20 sapier most oss libs work fine e.g. libogg vorbis zlib ...
22:20 sapier openbsd support patches
22:21 Warr1024 hypothetical ones, or specifically the pull req I submitted?
22:21 TheLastProject joined #minetest
22:21 sapier generally speaking
22:23 Warr1024 If you've got time to review my pull req, it's #965.
22:25 Warr1024 as always, it's a rather conservative fix.
22:25 Warr1024 Not really urgent of course, but I just hope it doesn't get forgotten through the 0.4.8 release.
22:25 LazyJ joined #minetest
22:25 Warr1024 Wish I knew more about your Windows builds problem, but I suspect that all I can offer you are my condolences :-/
22:31 ShadowNinja Warr1024: You should mention it in #minetest-dev.
22:31 ShadowNinja Too late. :-(
22:37 sapier left #minetest
22:44 john_minetest cya
22:47 RealBadAngel btw, my two cats
22:47 RealBadAngel https://scontent-b-vie.xx.fbcdn.ne​t/hphotos-ash3/q71/s720x720/139187​5_523778414381205_1796643179_n.jpg
23:00 werwerwer joined #minetest
23:02 VanessaE hi
23:03 djdduty joined #minetest
23:08 arsdragonfly hey
23:24 Taoki joined #minetest
23:27 Evergreen joined #minetest
23:27 Evergreen left #minetest
23:27 Evergreen joined #minetest
23:28 Evergreen hey
23:28 kaeza sup Evergreen
23:29 Evergreen sup
23:29 Evergreen Anything happen while I was gone?
23:30 kaeza 0.4.8 was released
23:30 kaeza actually no :P
23:31 VanessaE thank G*d no
23:31 VanessaE 0.4.8 is nowhere near ready imho
23:31 VanessaE (but it'll go out the door anyway probably)
23:32 werwerwer joined #minetest
23:32 kaeza still, 0.4.7 is waaay too old as of now
23:32 kaeza maybe 0.4.7.1 :P
23:34 Evergreen Too much has happened between 0.4.7 stable and 0.4.7 dev
23:35 Evergreen All the people who don't know what github is are still waiting for 0.4.8.   I agree with VanessaE though, it shouldn't be rushed
23:36 VanessaE mainly, there are crash bugs that need solved before it goes out
23:37 JackGruff joined #minetest
23:40 kaeza https://forum.minetest.net/vie​wtopic.php?pid=115531#p115531
23:40 kaeza bro, do you even spelling
23:48 VanessaE heh
23:56 VanessaE Evergreen: "Sorry about that, been lazy about working on the stalactites/stalagmites.   I'm not sure when it will be done."
23:57 VanessaE get to work you lazy sod ;)
23:57 Evergreen lol

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