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IRC log for #minetest, 2013-06-25

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:04 YoungDerp joined #minetest
00:10 daswort Is  throwing part of 0.4.7? Because the mod manager doen't display it as a dependency for another mod
00:10 PilzAdam no
00:18 OldCoder joined #minetest
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00:22 Exio 21:24:53: ERROR[main]: WARNING: before createPlayingSound: invalid name
00:22 Exio 21:24:53: ERROR[main]: WARNING: createPlayingSound: out of memory
00:22 Exio wtf man
00:24 Exio if anyone wonders, 2gb used of 12
00:34 hmmmmm sure
00:34 hmmmmm taoki, http://pastebin.com/zRyAetqp
00:35 hmmmmm mine are hardly a work of art either, though
00:45 kaeza hmmmmm, silly question: will there be a get_node_temperature() etc API?
00:45 * VanessaE mumbles something about plants_lib ;-)
00:45 hmmmmm yes
00:45 kaeza I've been using that :P
00:46 kaeza http://www.sureiscute.com/images/50360e401d41c87726000130.jpg
00:47 VanessaE haha
00:47 Exio ew, what is doing my phone in internet!
00:54 Exio wtf
00:54 Exio i wrote phone...
00:54 Exio i meant photo
00:56 kaeza O.o
00:57 kaeza now it makes sense
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00:59 PilzAdam http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=96474#p96474 .... Oh god...
00:59 jojoa1997 what?
01:00 kaeza ...
01:02 PilzAdam I suggest to spam him with RTFM
01:02 VanessaE I suggest leaving the poor slob alone for a change
01:02 Exio lol
01:02 * kaeza just committed suicide
01:02 Exio git reset HEAD~1
01:03 PilzAdam hah
01:03 VanessaE /respawn kaeza
01:03 Exio you can'
01:03 Exio t die with git kaeza!
01:04 kaeza lol
01:04 PilzAdam Exio, you can if you try to rebase a branch where you have merged things in earlier
01:05 Exio that is even worse than die-ing
01:05 kaeza dying*
01:05 Exio i didn't recall if dying was spelled correctly
01:05 kaeza ^ weird english word
01:05 Exio thanks
01:05 Exio lol
01:05 Exio aren't all english words... weird?
01:05 Exio ;P
01:06 kaeza most of them anyway :P
01:06 kaeza (no es que el Español no tenga palabras raras :P)
01:06 Exio kaeza: esas son peores
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01:07 PilzAdam <random> the internet is so nice; searching "how to" in youtube results in: 1) "How to trick people into thinking you have big boobs" 2) how to draw a perfect cycle 3) how to wash your hands in space 4) how to make fire using only a orange
01:07 kaeza lol @ 3
01:07 PilzAdam ^ everything you need to live
01:07 PilzAdam I could continue with 5) how to grow a planet 6) how turn milk into stone
01:08 Exio i want the link to the lastest
01:08 * Exio puts PilzAdam on fire with renewable lava
01:08 PilzAdam http://youtu.be/vZp_q_7IExA
01:08 kaeza 6) can be done with an ABM I guess
01:09 PilzAdam 5) -> ask paramat
01:09 kaeza ^
01:09 PilzAdam 4) -> add groups = {flammable=1}
01:09 * sokomine points a fire estinguisher at the fire
01:11 PilzAdam can someone please explain that to me: http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=96477#p96477
01:12 PilzAdam is that a reaction to me or is it just stupidity?
01:12 kaeza 2) https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/6369197568/h4D2164CA/
01:13 VanessaE never confuse plain old ignorance for stupidity
01:13 PilzAdam dat elephant wants to eat dat zebra
01:14 kaeza lol RTFM
01:14 VanessaE PilzAdam: never tell someone to RTFM.
01:14 PilzAdam and why?
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01:14 kaeza PIL is better
01:14 VanessaE it doesn't help the situation one bit, doesn't tell the person what specific resources they need, and it makes you look like a dick.
01:16 PilzAdam it tells the person that there is a manual, so they should go search it
01:16 VanessaE ...and it makes you look like a dick.
01:16 VanessaE remember that part.
01:16 PilzAdam thats intentional
01:16 VanessaE you WANT people to think that of you?
01:16 PilzAdam if they learn it early then they are not suprised later on ;-)
01:17 kaeza it's better to leave the post to rot in the bowels of the old posts list
01:18 PilzAdam "muttering RTFM is sometimes justified when replying to someone who is just a lazy slob" (from the link in my signature)
01:18 ch98 joined #minetest
01:18 kaeza PilzAdam, he doesn't seem like a "lazy slob", but rather a kid that doesn't even get 2+2
01:19 PilzAdam kids == generally lazy
01:19 PilzAdam and VanessaE called him a "slob"
01:19 kaeza programming, much less concepts like 3D modelling, and such
01:19 kaeza err
01:19 kaeza bleh
01:19 PilzAdam thats good English :-p
01:19 kaeza "much less concepts like programming, 3D modelling, and such" better :)
01:20 NakedFury they really should start by reading the manuals and wikis and actually seeing and reading the default game mods code
01:21 PilzAdam NakedFury, oO you point him to mobf?
01:21 PilzAdam thats like "How do I start my PC?" "Read the Linux kernel sourcecode"
01:21 NakedFury he wanted to know how to do the code thing
01:23 PilzAdam mobf is not understandable for anyone but sapier himself (besides that your eyes start bleeding because of the doxygen)
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01:28 PilzAdam bye
01:29 VanessaE DAMN IT.
01:29 VanessaE I hate when he does that
01:31 VanessaE PilzAdam, if you see this, "poor slob" is an American English euphemism suggesting one of poor fortune
01:31 VanessaE cf. "poor bastard", "poor schmuck", etc.
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01:36 kaeza brb, food
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02:18 Menche /unban crashed my server
02:18 Menche 19:17:08: ERROR[main]: ERROR: An unhandled exception occurred: ServerError: LuaError: error: /usr/local/share/minetest/builtin/chatcommands.lua:647: attempt to call field 'unban_player_or_ip' (a nil value)
02:18 Menche ?
02:19 NakedFury signal not to unban the player?
02:26 * VanessaE grumbles at people griefing on her server
02:26 * Menche 's spawn was griefed by Guest**** players
02:26 VanessaE Menche: which is why my server will always be whitelisted.
02:27 VanessaE in this case it was Mallot1.
02:27 * Menche ponders autorevoking privs from Guest***
02:27 Menche get a real name
02:27 VanessaE +10^1000000000000000
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02:29 kaeza local name = player:get_player_name(); if name:match("^Guest[0-9]+") then minetest.ban_player(name) end
02:30 Exio what about adding regex-based-bans
02:31 Menche anyway, /unban crashed my server
02:31 Menche so i suppose i have to permaban, which may not be a bad thing :P
02:31 Exio wtf?
02:34 kaeza ftw!
02:34 VanessaE tfw...
02:34 Exio tf2!
02:34 VanessaE (this fucking world[, I swear]...)
02:34 kaeza hl3 D:
02:35 VanessaE ID4 :D
02:35 Exio tetris!
02:35 Exio \:D/
02:35 kaeza you broke your neck
02:35 Exio i didn't have one ;)
02:36 VanessaE \☺/
02:36 khonkhortisan pentominoes!
02:37 kaeza lol
02:37 kaeza I just noticed the smiley
02:39 kaeza random: https://bitbucket.org/ttmrichter/evil/src/7fd644d521dcd58c6dd0167f91109a4bc228d08c/prolog/evil.pl?at=default#cl-90
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02:54 beez did something change in 4.7? i cant get my mod to load
02:54 VanessaE many things did
02:54 VanessaE put your mods in ~/.minetest/mods
02:54 VanessaE (minetestfolder/mods)
02:54 beez i'll try that
02:54 VanessaE don't put them in minetest/mods/minetest anymore
02:55 beez thanks van, how ya been?
02:55 VanessaE also make sure they're enabled in the world's config dialog
02:55 VanessaE been fine
02:55 * VanessaE wonders who beez is :)
02:55 beez maddhatter
02:55 beez from months ago
02:55 beez :)
02:56 beez beez it my common screen name, was lazy
02:56 beez still fails :(
02:56 VanessaE ah
02:56 VanessaE wb
02:57 VanessaE what are the errors you're getting
02:57 VanessaE ?
02:57 arsdragonfly|pho joined #minetest
02:58 beez 23:57:44: ERROR[main]: ========== ERROR FROM LUA =========== 23:57:44: ERROR[main]: Failed to load and run script from  23:57:44: ERROR[main]: C:\Users\Tom Riddle\Desktop\minetest-0.4.7\bin\..\mods\w_eyw\init.lua: 23:57:44: ERROR[main]: ...Riddle\Desktop\minetest-0.4.7\bin\..\mods\w_eyw\init.lua:15: attempt to concatenate a nil value 23:57:44: ERROR[main]: stack traceback: 23:57:44: ERROR[main]: ...Riddle\Desktop\minetest-0.4.7\b
02:58 arsdragonfly joined #minetest
02:58 beez concatenate a nil value i am guessing is weird
02:59 beez GOT IT
03:00 beez i had shortend the mod name but not in the init's references
03:00 VanessaE oops :)
03:00 beez lol
03:00 VanessaE you seen the latest stuff I and contributors have been working on?
03:00 kahrl Menche: are you running git or stable?
03:02 kahrl I assume you're running 0.4.7 and the bug you're seeing was fixed in https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/44053101840594e133886986d28e557bdfb57e8b
03:02 Menche git
03:03 Menche just pulled, there were a few updates
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03:06 Menche grrr, some idiot spammed 51 protector blocks across an area on my server
03:08 VanessaE /rollback_check
03:08 VanessaE enough's enough
03:08 Menche the protectors tell who placed them, no need for that
03:09 Menche and anyway, rollback_check freezes my server for a while
03:09 VanessaE oh ok
03:09 Menche i'll have to clean the rollback logs
03:09 Menche LOL, my debug.txt is 1.9G
03:09 VanessaE pff
03:09 VanessaE mine hit 4GB last time I nuked it :D
03:10 * Menche is going to get around to making a sorting and backup script... one of these days...
03:10 Exio mine is 30MB
03:10 Exio can i have yours?
03:10 Exio ;P
03:11 Menche and the rollback.txt is 1.7G
03:14 Exio VanessaE: do you have any small-and-tiny but ABM heavy mod?
03:14 Menche is there an option to disable bones?
03:15 VanessaE um..
03:15 VanessaE Menche: I just delete it.
03:15 VanessaE Exio: gloopblocks hooks into the lavacooling abm.  Or get plantlife modpack
03:16 VanessaE those are the two smallest, but aren't particularly small compared to the average simple mod
03:16 Menche just make a mod that has an abm that runs on air :P
03:16 VanessaE probably the heaviest is pipeworks, but it's hardly small
03:16 VanessaE Menche: evil.
03:16 VanessaE pure evil.
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03:17 sokomine menche: i'm working on the "server gets freezed". do you use the file rollback.txt?
03:18 Menche ?
03:18 Menche rollback uses that right?
03:18 Menche yeah
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03:21 sokomine menche: please try my inspector-mod. you can find it under https://github.com/Sokomine/inspector/
03:21 sokomine i've just commited a version that uses external bash scripts for the actual grep so that it can be adapted easier
03:22 sokomine it would be helpful for me if someone would actually try it. i'm sure grep will be faster than the internal rollback_check
03:23 sokomine 1.7gb may still take some time to grep through. wouldn't dare to run rollback_check ingame with such a big file. please try my mod
03:23 Menche would it help if the logs were split up into different days and checked one at a time?
03:23 sokomine just try the mod please. and compare it to rollback_check
03:23 sokomine you won't know beforehand at which day the griefing was done....
03:25 sokomine ah, and you have to configure the mod a bit - that is, tell it where the rollback.txt is located
03:25 Menche can it read the debug.txt as well?
03:26 sokomine you need to do that in the two bash scripts grep.search_by_*    there it needs the name of the rollback.txt
03:26 sokomine i'm afraid the format of debug.txt is slightly diffrent
03:26 sokomine why does everyone use that? :-( you said you where using rollback.txt?
03:27 Menche i have both
03:27 sokomine the patterns may need to be adapted for the debug.txt version. and the way i present the data relies on the format found in rollback.txt
03:27 Menche ok
03:27 sokomine ok. would you be willing to try the mod? it will still freeze your server - for as long as it takes to run the grep
03:28 Menche there's a few players on now, maybe later
03:28 sokomine ok
03:30 sokomine if you do so, please don't forget to adjust the bash scripts and add the correct path there. all the mod does is call these scripts with some parameters. do a /giveme inspector:inspector, wield that ingame and click on a node you want information about. it will give you a list of all actions that occoured at that node. you can pick a number from there, e.g. /inspect 5     and get some actions the player who did the action numbered as
03:30 sokomine that may be helpful to figure out if it was an accident, the rightful builder or a griefer
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03:47 ch98 can someone test my concrete 2.0 mod?
03:47 ch98 I need an debug
03:47 VanessaE fix your damn PC so you can code your mod
03:48 VanessaE :)
03:49 ch98 that pc capacitor is comming from company at other side of the world in slowest cheepest mail so it may take some time (2-6 weeks)
03:50 ch98 most likly a month from now
03:50 VanessaE jeez, where to you live, Antarctica?
03:50 ch98 at least, it was cheep
03:51 ch98 it is shipped from china
03:51 ch98 It IS trusted company
03:51 VanessaE shoulda bought from Digikey.
03:51 VanessaE they probably have what you needed and they ship really fast.
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03:54 Exio ch98: i wonder where you live
03:54 ch98 United state
03:54 ch98 washington
03:54 VanessaE ch98: you shoulda ordered from Digikey then.
03:54 Exio what the fuck
03:54 VanessaE you would have had your parts in about 3 days.
03:55 ch98 That part was not there
03:55 ch98 afk
03:55 VanessaE a capacitor?  what values?
03:55 VanessaE get back in here.
03:55 kaeza lol
03:55 VanessaE what voltage, ESR, capacitance?
03:55 Exio haha
03:55 VanessaE through hole or surface?  radial or axial?
03:56 StarBlessed Electrolytic; Ceramic?
03:56 ch98 1050 uf at least 120 degree celcius at least 50v
03:57 StarBlessed For a computer?
03:57 VanessaE 1050?  never heard of a size like that.
03:57 StarBlessed WTF!
03:57 VanessaE 10500 maybe?
03:59 StarBlessed A 1050uf capacitor is a CAR capacitor, used for the starter/alternator
03:59 VanessaE indeed
03:59 VanessaE well, 10500 is
03:59 VanessaE 1050 is easily packed into a small package
03:59 VanessaE I've dealt with 2200 uF caps that were only about half the size of a wine cork
03:59 VanessaE and that was 1980's tech
03:59 StarBlessed Sorry...  Got a little ahead of myself.  LOL!  You know what I meant.
04:00 VanessaE ch98: what is the purpose of this odd-size capacitor?
04:02 VanessaE closest match:  http://www.digikey.com/scripts/dksearch/dksus.dll?pv13=65&amp;FV=fff40002%2Cfff80009&amp;k=1050&amp;mnonly=0&amp;newproducts=0&amp;ColumnSort=0&amp;page=1&amp;quantity=0&amp;ptm=0&amp;fid=0&amp;pageSize=25
04:02 VanessaE 48 cents.
04:02 VanessaE (plus about $8 in shipping)
04:02 VanessaE voltage rating is too low for your application though
04:03 Exio wtf man
04:03 Exio X11 got stuck for 15~ seconds
04:03 Exio when i check htop, minetest using the cpu
04:04 Exio minetest doesn't like me today
04:04 Exio so, good night :P
04:05 VanessaE ch98: even better is this one:  http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/ECA-1HHG102/P5575-ND/245174
04:05 VanessaE it's a buck, but it fits your criteria.
04:08 VanessaE another one, http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/UVY1H102MHD/UVY1H102MHD-ND/2428007
04:09 VanessaE and if you need surface mount, http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/EEV-FK1H102M/PCE3477CT-ND/396336
04:11 ch98 1050 uf!
04:11 VanessaE no guarantees, but any of those four will probably suffice.  a capacitor that large is surely part of a power regulation circuit, so an inexact match should be okay
04:12 VanessaE 1050uF at what tolerance?  20%?
04:12 VanessaE 1050 refers to the nominal value, it'll almost never be that - it'll be somewhere within +/- %tolerance of that value
04:13 ch98 I know, looking for tolerance
04:13 VanessaE if the tolerance is at least 10% on your original part, the 1000 +/-20% should be sufficient
04:14 ch98 ......... can't find it so I will try that part
04:14 VanessaE no guarantees, standard disclaimer, etc.  if you fry the mobo, it's your fault :)
04:15 ch98 I will say it is more than 10% (I hope)
04:15 ch98 thank you!
04:15 VanessaE it's probably in the 20% range
04:15 VanessaE most cheap electronics are designed to handle ranges that wide
04:15 VanessaE you're welcome :)
04:15 VanessaE hope it helps
04:15 ch98 afk
04:15 VanessaE and if you wanna pay them a premium, they'll overnight the package to you
04:15 VanessaE missed.
04:40 kaeza http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=minetest%2C%20%20blockscape&amp;cmpt=q
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04:54 ShadowNinja Hmmm, how do I do this in Lua? x = "something"; {x=true};  --> {"something"=true}
04:56 VanessaE ["something"] = true
04:56 VanessaE I think.
04:58 ShadowNinja But then I need to make the table first. This should be as compact as possible and {}[x]=true doesn't work.
04:58 VanessaE hrm
04:58 VanessaE too tired to figure it out righ tnow
05:04 VanessaE bbl
05:04 ShadowNinja This is what I am doing: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5797522/
05:06 ShadowNinja There, it runs. I will have to test it tomorrow. kaeza: Do you know how I can shorten that?
05:07 kaeza a sec
05:07 kaeza shorten?
05:08 ShadowNinja kaeza: Yes, I want a one-liner like {x=true}
05:08 ShadowNinja Where x is evaluated.
05:09 kaeza that is as short as it could possibly be without shortening identifiers themselves
05:09 ShadowNinja Hrm...
05:09 kaeza actually, hmm
05:11 kaeza http://pastebin.com/JF4MEDRs
05:12 kaeza but not sure if that is actually what you intended
05:12 khonkhortisan eew
05:13 kaeza did you mean to check privilege "self_protection_privilege", or actually store a priv name in `areas.self_protection_privilege' and index by that?
05:14 ShadowNinja kaeza: Store a priv name in that.
05:15 kaeza ah ok
05:15 kaeza then my paste is correct I guess
05:16 ShadowNinja :-) It works. Thanks!
05:16 kaeza np :)
05:18 ShadowNinja Is it possible to cause a infinite loop or other nasty stuff with Lua regexps?
05:19 kaeza like?
05:19 kaeza not that I'm aware of
05:20 kaeza (though probably matching "." in a string of length 1000000 would take an eternity)
05:21 kaeza ".*" *
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05:21 ShadowNinja I am allowing players to run a regexp against a bunch of entries(>500 on redcrab's server). So even a very slow regexp could be bad.
05:22 kaeza arbitrary regexp?
05:23 ShadowNinja Yes, specified in a command/
05:23 ShadowNinja s/\//\./
05:24 kaeza well, you could do some benchmarks in the standalone interpreter
05:24 kaeza but you should probably limit the length of the regexp
05:25 kaeza and also wrap the thing in pcall in case it throws errors
05:28 ShadowNinja If this was python I would just put it in another thread, join it for a second, and kill it if it hadn't finished.
05:29 kaeza coroutines my friend :)
05:30 kaeza do, say, 50 iterations in a cycle, then yield, and next server step do 50 more, and so on
05:31 kaeza I implemented something similar in the (now defunct) MAPP mod
05:32 ShadowNinja But that won't work here. With the right regex you could stop the server with one match.
05:32 kaeza are the strings to match too long?
05:32 ShadowNinja No, one sec...
05:33 ShadowNinja name [id]: owner (x1, y1, z1) (x2, y2, z2) -> children
05:34 ShadowNinja I will have to limit the name length.
05:34 ShadowNinja It is matched against that for every area.
05:35 ShadowNinja Powerful, but maybe it should be admin-only.
05:35 kaeza maybe
05:35 kaeza or a "moderator" priv
05:36 kaeza so... let me get this straight...
05:36 kaeza what does the chat command do?
05:37 kaeza (i.e. functionality, not code)
05:39 ShadowNinja It finds areas that match a regex and prints them.
05:42 kaeza can you give an example?
05:43 ShadowNinja Find all castles: "[cC]astle \["
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05:43 ShadowNinja (/find_areas <regex>)
05:44 kaeza hmm
05:45 kaeza wouldn't it be better to have all areas preloaded in a table, and make a command to search by name, id, owner, etc ?
05:46 kaeza I mean, each item in the table would have .owner, .id, etc, fields
05:47 kaeza for example: /find_areas by_name [Cc]astle
05:47 kaeza that way you also isolate users from database format details
05:51 ShadowNinja But I still have the regex issue.
05:52 kaeza limit the regex to say, 50 chars or so
05:52 kaeza (or less if using separate fields)
05:53 kaeza it shouldn't be too slow anyway for that stuff
05:53 khonkhortisan If the player was a single node, it would always be dragging another node at y-1.
05:54 kaeza ShadowNinja, maybe unrelated, but iterating an array of 1000000 items takes about 10ms
05:54 ShadowNinja But if a loop/slowdown was possible it would probably be less that 50 chars (like :(){:|:&};: or something like that)
05:56 ShadowNinja It isn't the iterating that I am worried about. But players are unlikely to know how to write a loop anyway...
05:56 kaeza how would they write a loop with regexes?
05:57 kaeza (at least not possible with Lua's syntax)
05:57 kaeza derp
05:57 kaeza whatevs
05:57 khonkhortisan :(){:|:&};:
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07:57 JamesTait Good morning all! :)
08:00 Reenjii joined #minetest
08:01 Calinou hi
08:01 Calinou freenode staff
08:02 * Calinou taunts with medigun indefinitely
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08:09 kaeza hi Calinou
08:16 StarBlessed joined #minetest
08:32 kaeza http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&amp;id=2947#comic
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09:19 john_minetest Rendering sculpted meshes with multiresolution takes long
09:23 john_minetest But it is worth the longer rendering time
09:30 john_minetest And here it is! http://i.imgur.com/GxmVgWw.png
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11:31 sfan5 hi
11:31 deasanta hi
11:31 proller hi
11:46 paramat joined #minetest
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11:53 john_minetest hi
11:53 PilzAdam Hello everyone!
11:55 john_minetest hi PilzAdam
11:57 john_minetest <repost> http://i.imgur.com/GxmVgWw.png </repost>
12:00 Calinou huh
12:04 john_minetest This is a render I made 3 hours ago
12:09 john_minetest because I was bored.
12:15 Calinou john_minetest: http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1gzi8f/a_second_fsfcertified_device_from_thinkpenguin/
12:15 Calinou see, wifi using an unicorn
12:15 Calinou :>
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12:26 john_minetest A unicorn penguin.
12:27 john_minetest A narwhal.
12:28 paramat Hi
12:30 Calinou hi
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12:49 savedgames Hello all I had trouble yesterday, though I managed to get minetestc55 working on my dad's computer finally. 0.4.7. I've manged to connect my 0.4.7 to his on the local lan, it works superb! :D
12:49 savedgames all my troubles are solved and I will be able to play with him hahaha
12:49 savedgames :D
12:50 savedgames I feel so content with myself :)
12:50 savedgames All thx to the Windows ubuntu installer. Without 12.04 I wouldn't be able to make it. Of course without the minetestdev ppa this wouldn't be possible.
12:50 NakedFury congratulations. enjoy the game
12:51 Calinou it's not like minetest is hard to compile
12:54 * Calinou is adding moretrees support to misa
12:54 Calinou (not 100%, but big part of it)
12:54 savedgames Calinou, no, but I must also find a suitable source to download. The download page at http://minetest.net/download doesn't have any source packages ready to download, but binaries are all over the place
12:54 Calinou git
12:55 savedgames yes, but the person that has to compile also has to figure out how git works.
12:55 savedgames ..to get a copy of the source, and github is full of buttons.
12:55 Calinou there's a "zip" button
12:55 deasanta good luck savedgames
12:55 Calinou or better, git clone <URL>
12:55 savedgames deasanta, wha? good luck? wha ya mean?
12:56 deasanta working with computers tend to lead to headaches
12:56 deasanta in my case anyway
12:57 deasanta general question - is there a way to generate light in a map when you are not using mapgen like in single node world?
12:57 savedgames Calinou, yes but if I press zip directly do I get the latest version or do I get the latest stable release?
12:58 savedgames Calinou, sorry. I know already. I just need to use my mind and the things you taught me yesterday.
12:58 savedgames tags
12:59 savedgames so when you release 0.4.8(if) then I'll find it by the tags.
13:00 Calinou http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=3837
13:02 john_minetest Lol, this script looks creepy.
13:03 john_minetest So much text...
13:06 savedgames Does anyone here have edit rights for http://minetest.net/download ? Could you add a link to http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=3837 in the Source code section or is it overkill?
13:08 Zeg9 There should be links to the github archives of every tags (or at least the latest stable version)
13:08 Zeg9 it's not like adding a link to https://github.com/minetest/minetest/archive/0.4.7.zip would be hard
13:09 savedgames Zeg9, yes, but you need edit rights.
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13:09 Zeg9 I know, this is probably why it isn't done already
13:09 deasanta general question - is there a way to generate light in a map when you are not using mapgen like in single node world?
13:10 Zeg9 does lighting work at all or only sunlight doesnt work?
13:11 deasanta zeg9 - lighting works - i can see feint light or i can add artificail light - im not using default im trying to make a map without mapgen
13:11 Zeg9 oh, are you making a custom game?
13:11 deasanta somthing about the system detecting if you are above ground or not - discussed here in http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest-dev/2012-11-28 at 6h10
13:11 deasanta yes - trying to get my head around generating maps
13:12 savedgames hmm, I just compiled 0.4.6 fine. Yes it worked fine compiling this.
13:14 savedgames this surprises me since when I tried compiling 0.4.dev-20120122-1 it refused to compile in the last stage. Though now all this is irrelevant since I got 0.4.7 to work fine.
13:14 savedgames so what am I doing here I wonder.
13:14 savedgames I just want to say thx for all help from yesterday
13:14 savedgames and from the tips today.
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13:17 harrison http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-v-NiPWvA4
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13:22 paramat Latest moonrealm map http://i.imgur.com/PTEzb1e.png
13:30 proller make in in core!
13:33 paramat haha
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13:49 paramat soon i can make it fast in lua using schematics :P
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14:12 john_minetest Net split...
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14:53 sfan5 yay
14:53 * sfan5 is getting his raspi in 5 days
14:53 khonkhortisan as if you weren't raspi enough
14:53 khonkhortisan :)
14:53 sfan5 ?
14:53 khonkhortisan raspy (voice)
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15:37 Kacey hi all
15:37 Kacey Vadtec, are you around?
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15:42 Kacey hello
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15:54 sfan5 yay! arm-elf-gcc-4.7.3 built!
15:55 Jordach http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-cqKP7xr2TXc/TyX2XDkglbI/AAAAAAAAAFA/CKkyJ3ckLOQ/s1600/CoolStoryBroHouse.jpg
15:56 Exio sfan5: buildroot is addictive isn't it! :P
15:56 sfan5 Exio: uhh.. i built it by hand because buildroot and crosstool-ng didn't support building a bare-metal toolchain without libc
15:57 Exio aw
15:57 sfan5 cross-compiling gcc&binutils by hand is not as hard as many ppl think
15:58 Exio if you read the help, nothing is hard ;P
15:58 sfan5 I didn't read the help
15:58 sfan5 I just used --target and --prefix
15:59 Exio you can find them in the help
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16:16 Calinou Jordach: s/house/hoof
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16:19 Jordach evening JamesTai1
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17:00 sokomine hmmm: it would be great if place_schematic could get two optional parameters: rotation and a replacement list for nodes. rotation is needed in order to present more variations of the "decoration" (everything that's not axe-symmetrical would look odd if it always points in the same direction). rotation can be done with the alternate table-format, but beeing able to use the stored files would be much more practical
17:02 sokomine hmmm: the replacement list would tell the place_schematic function that instead of the default:wood the schematic mentions it ought to use e.g. default:cobble for all occourances of default:wood (mostly replacing the node-number-association in the savefile). it could also help to place diffrent tree types with the same schematic
17:02 sokomine those two factors are important for decorative elements. at least for larger ones :-)
17:03 sokomine of course it can be done right now, and it would work with the table-format. i think that will be slower and more inconvenient (no idea how much memory lua uses for larger tables)
17:05 sokomine in short, i'd greatly appreciate a function that could change the values the .mts files store directly and have those values there accessible as values in a table (i.e. node-number-associations, which-node-is-at-xyz-table, param2-table etc)
17:06 sokomine oh. he's not there :-(
17:06 thexyz he's here but you want to write to #minetest-dev
17:06 sokomine hmmm. that's a dangerous environment there :-)
17:07 sokomine last time i /msg'd him he told me to ask on the channel
17:07 thexyz on #minetest-dev, not #minetest
17:07 thexyz I guess
17:08 sokomine brb
17:08 sokomine joined #minetest
17:08 thexyz hmmmm: ^
17:08 sokomine hm :)
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17:18 paramat > (optional parameters: rotation) Yes please.
17:20 sokomine :-)
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17:35 ShadowNinja Or a separate function to do those transformations.
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18:05 Jordach PilzAdam, does game.conf allow modification / override default conf settings
18:05 PilzAdam no
18:05 Jordach tch, i thought there was a way
18:05 PilzAdam but a minetest.conf ind the game folder does
18:05 Calinou ^
18:05 Calinou see minitest
18:05 Calinou it overrides default physics
18:06 PilzAdam and time_speed
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18:07 Calinou day/night cycle is at the same speed in minecraft, PilzAdam
18:07 Calinou in minetest, it used to be 96, so 15 minutes, a bit faster
18:07 Calinou but that's not the case since quite a long time now
18:09 ShadowNinja Has anyone else tried time_speed = 10000? ;-)
18:09 PilzAdam ShadowNinja, yes, disco ;-)
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18:10 Mallot1 hey guys :D
18:10 ShadowNinja Heh. :-)
18:11 Mallot1 i dont understand the windows instructions for the server making: http://wiki.minetest.com/wiki/Setting_up_a_server#The_Easy_Way
18:11 Jordach Mallot1, its outdated
18:11 Jordach dont even bother.
18:11 Jordach not to mention windows is horrible for server
18:11 Jordach trust me. i've done it before.
18:11 Mallot1 O.o
18:11 Mallot1 ok
18:11 Mallot1 tbut i only have window 8
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18:12 Jordach doesnt matter. windows has a terrible networking speed
18:12 Mallot1 tdoes anyone know how to make a server now?
18:15 sfan5 TIL asto.re point to apple.com
18:15 Mallot1 what?
18:15 Exio that is more time_speed = 75k PilzAdam
18:15 PilzAdam Mallot1, minetest --sever --worldname Your_World
18:15 Exio or 100k
18:15 PilzAdam *minetest.exe
18:15 Mallot1 where do u put it?
18:15 Mallot1 oh ok
18:16 Mallot1 where? on minetest.exe?
18:17 Mallot1 where on minetest.exe?
18:20 Mallot1 PilzAdam^^
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18:23 ShadowNinja Mallot1: You run mintest from a terminal like that.
18:24 * VanessaE grumbles loudly.
18:24 Mallot1 ???
18:24 Calinou PROFIT
18:24 Jordach http://cuddlebuggery.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Picard-Facepalm.jpg
18:25 ShadowNinja Mallot1: http://cli.learncodethehardway.org/book/
18:25 Mallot1 oh open CMD thanks
18:25 Mallot1 tand ShadowNinja that servers AWESOME!
18:26 Miner_48er Is it possible to enable minetest to use ASII extended in minetest?
18:26 Jordach Miner_48er, nope.
18:26 Jordach Minetest uses UNICODE
18:26 ShadowNinja :-)
18:27 Mallot1 i typed that into terminal and it said minetest not found
18:27 Mallot1 it said not reconized as a btch file
18:27 Mallot1 *batch
18:28 Miner_48er ok what is the equivilant in UNICODE
18:28 Jordach there isnt
18:28 Jordach UNICODE is a global body for fonts
18:29 ShadowNinja Mallot1: Use cd and read at least a good portion of that tutorial.
18:29 Mallot1 awwwwww ok
18:29 Jordach basically, it holds all the characters one would use for ANY language
18:30 Mallot1 any video tutorials?
18:30 Jordach Mallot1, DO IT YOURSELF.
18:30 Jordach were not hand holders.
18:30 PilzAdam Mallot1, if you are _that_ lazy then nobody wants to help you
18:30 Mallot1 Jordach: DAYUM
18:31 Mallot1 PilzAdam: u guys r the experts here, i never made a server before i searched it up but all the articles are either outdated or confusing or for linux
18:31 Mallot1 *you *are
18:31 Jordach Mallot1, open source gamers usually use linux, not WINDOWS.
18:32 PilzAdam Mallot1, I dont know windows
18:32 Mallot1 i know but i got Window*
18:32 PilzAdam its your OS, you have to handle it
18:32 Mallot1 oh ok
18:32 PilzAdam I can assist you with MT things
18:32 PilzAdam but things that depend on your OS should be known by you
18:33 Mallot1 ok, ill try to find it currently im a regular person when it comes to the server making stuff, dont know how to do it
18:33 Mallot1 ill try to keep searching for help
18:33 Jordach you wont find any from google
18:33 Jordach its either outdated or useless.
18:34 Mallot1 i thought so
18:34 Mallot1 Hmmm, ill crack this the best i can
18:34 PilzAdam Mallot1, the problem is that a tutorial about server creation in Minetest is not linked with a tutorial about basic usage of each OS
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18:35 Mallot1 yeah, what is the problem with that?
18:35 PilzAdam you first have to learn how to use a system before you can set up a server on that
18:35 Mallot1 oh
18:35 Mallot1 ok
18:37 Mallot1 is it: minetest --"server" --"worldname"  ? and isnt the server and world name the same?
18:37 Jordach minetest.exe
18:37 Jordach no QUOTES
18:38 Jordach minetest.exe --server --world
18:38 Jordach --gameid=minetest_game
18:38 marktraceur Aren't command line options on windows more different?
18:38 marktraceur Slashes or something
18:38 * Jordach falls over
18:38 ShadowNinja marktraceur: No.
18:38 Jordach dafuq are you doing in here marktraceur
18:38 Mallot1 :O
18:38 marktraceur Jordach: Lurking mostly. Typing sometimes.
18:39 Jordach heh
18:39 Mallot1 lol
18:39 Jordach you might wanna have a talk to the devs
18:39 Jordach theyre fighting over bug fixers
18:39 Jordach -s
18:39 marktraceur Tch not really.
18:39 PilzAdam marktraceur!
18:40 Mallot1 so its minetest.exe --server --world --gameid=minetest_game? and what is the diffence between the world and server?
18:40 marktraceur That's me, PilzAdam
18:40 PilzAdam how are you?
18:42 marktraceur I'm doin' all right
18:42 marktraceur Busy as ever :)
18:42 Mallot1 :)
18:42 Mallot1 im just chillllllllin :D
18:43 Mallot1 [14:40] <Mallot1> so its minetest.exe --server --world --gameid=minetest_game? and what is the diffence between the world and server?
18:43 ShadowNinja Mallot1: No, --worldname ≤your world name>
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18:44 Mallot1 *headspinning
18:45 PilzAdam I guess you havent read ShadowNinja's link yet
18:45 Mallot1 fine ill go but its HUGE
18:50 Mallot1 OOOOOHHHHH!
18:50 Mallot1 i got it now
18:50 Mallot1 i think
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18:56 Miner_48er Is there a way to enable international characters?
18:57 PilzAdam Miner_48er, what minetest version?
18:57 Calinou Miner_48er, by using freetype, yes
18:57 Calinou works for me in 0.4.7
18:58 Miner_48er 0.4.6
18:58 Miner_48er does the update enable that?
18:58 PilzAdam what characters?
18:58 PilzAdam <Miner_48er> does the update enable that? <- no
18:59 Calinou why not use 0.4.7, too
19:01 Miner_48er planning to have to check mod and map compatibility
19:02 Calinou they are always compatible
19:02 Calinou just move your mods from mods/minetest/ to mods/
19:02 Calinou and make sure to enable them in the world "configure" option
19:03 Miner_48er invalid multi-byte string
19:04 Exio enable freetype
19:05 Miner_48er ok is that in gui, minetest.conf, or source code?
19:06 Exio when compiling
19:06 Miner_48er ok thx
19:07 Calinou -DENABLE_FREETYPE=1
19:07 Calinou install freetype first, using your favourite package manager
19:07 Calinou oh also, -DENABLE_GETTEXT=1 -DENABLE_FREETYPE=1
19:07 Calinou this enables both gettext and freetype
19:08 Calinou gettext translates the game if translations are available :P
19:08 Exio http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.php?gpu=GeForce+GT+610&amp;id=33 http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.php?gpu=Radeon+HD+6870&amp;id=22
19:08 Calinou comparing a GT610 and a HD6870
19:08 Calinou seems legit
19:09 Exio VanessaE / Taoki gpu vs mine
19:09 Exio Taoki: what mods are you using and what are you doing for getting <60FPS?
19:10 PilzAdam hah, http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.php?gpu=GeForce+GTX+460
19:10 * PilzAdam wins
19:10 Taoki Don't think mods affect it, only a few minor ones
19:10 Calinou Exio, buut
19:10 Calinou fglrx loses against any nvidia card </nvidia_fanboy>
19:11 Calinou http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.php?gpu=GeForce+GTX+570&amp;id=15
19:11 Calinou PilzAdam, pwned
19:12 Calinou Taoki, having a lot of nodeboxes or transparent nodes can cause low FPS
19:12 Calinou try connecting to VanessaE's server and see
19:12 VanessaE Calinou: not true.
19:12 Taoki connecting now, caching media is slow
19:12 Calinou I have about 25 FPS with 128 view distance, shaders on, 4× MSAA, anisotropic filtering, misa pack
19:12 VanessaE I tried it with zero nodeboxes once.
19:12 Taoki And it's also slow where I don't have that
19:12 Calinou oh
19:13 Calinou Taoki, yes it is slow
19:13 Calinou be patient :P
19:13 PilzAdam Calinou, I dont need more than playing BF 3 on ultra settings
19:13 VanessaE the difference was only 4 or 5 fps on the hardware Taoki and I have.
19:13 Calinou VanessaE does not have a remote media server
19:13 Calinou PilzAdam, to run BF3 on ultra at 60FPS in 1920×1080 you need a 680 or a 7970
19:13 Calinou else, the only thing you can do is enjoy your 30 FPS :P
19:13 VanessaE Calinou: I refuse to set up a remote media server.
19:14 PilzAdam Calinou, never tried it myself
19:14 Calinou VanessaE, why?
19:14 PilzAdam VanessaE, you are crazy
19:14 Calinou it's not hard, and you can even leech off dropbox :P
19:14 Calinou (although it might get your public links disabled if you have a lot of players)
19:14 VanessaE because it's fucking stupid to have to use a third-party tool and an external resource just to get the engine to do its job right.
19:15 Calinou VanessaE, almost no game allows fast download from server
19:15 Calinou xonotic uses web servers, warsow uses web servers, open arena uses web servers
19:15 BrandonReese I see it as offloading part of the load to another server
19:15 VanessaE BrandonReese: my computer is more than fast enough to serve up the data.
19:16 Calinou BrandonReese, an atom can saturate a gigabit ethernet interface :P
19:16 VanessaE I can push ~500 kB/sec.  the issue isn't hardware.  it's software.
19:16 PilzAdam VanessaE, but you refuse to use software
19:16 Exio Calinou: having another whole program doing it will be faster
19:16 Calinou Exio, no idea how fast is minecraft to download server side packs
19:16 Exio because, the minetest server won't need to even "try to understand" what happens
19:16 Exio Calinou: doesn't it download those from "web servers" too?
19:17 Exio afaik the setting is a http link :P
19:17 Exio wow
19:17 Calinou Exio, oh
19:17 Calinou it is, I forgot
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19:17 Exio between viewing_range = 80 to 100
19:17 Exio i got a like 40% of the fps i got before lol
19:17 VanessaE PilzAdam: I refuse to use software because it's an external piece of code being used to do the server's job of sending the data to the clients.
19:18 Exio VanessaE: it is called "unix philosophy"
19:18 Exio one program, doing it right
19:18 Exio and just that thing
19:18 Exio s/it/something/
19:19 VanessaE yeah, and the server already has the ability to send data to the clients.
19:19 Calinou VanessaE, it's very easy to do, though, and saying that is kinda like saying "why should I use apt if I can use dpkg"
19:19 Exio more like when talking about rpm
19:19 VanessaE adding code to the engine to enable the use of a third party tool instead of fixing what made the media transfer slow to begin with is tbe biggest G*d damn hack I've seen in this project.
19:19 Calinou Exio, I'm always on 128 view distance, which is equivalent to minecraft's "far"
19:19 Calinou 64 is "normal", short is 32, tiny is 16
19:20 Calinou VanessaE, fast media transfer without cURL is not trivial
19:20 Calinou why do all the open source FPSes I know use web servers for fast downloads (above 25KB/s) ? for a reason, probably
19:21 Calinou it also allows using a single web server for many game servers
19:21 Calinou defrag servers on xonotic do that
19:22 VanessaE Calinou: so add cURL and put an extremely minimal http server into the engine, and rip out the old one?
19:22 VanessaE it's the fact that it's not part of the engine that bothers me.
19:22 Exio hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaha
19:22 Calinou possible
19:22 PilzAdam oh, there is it again, the Minetest OS
19:22 Calinou there are very simple web servers around, eg. SimpleHTTPServer
19:22 Exio simplehttpserver is python, iirc
19:22 Calinou and?
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19:23 Exio write it in lua
19:23 Calinou no u
19:23 Calinou anyone has python installed today, just like java :P
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19:23 VanessaE If a web server can do it, why can't the engine be fixed to do the same damn thing in lieu of code everyone knows is busted?
19:23 Exio did you try making it work in the way you want?
19:24 Exio i mean, making it work properly, not adding an httpd to minetest
19:24 PilzAdam VanessaE, the main focus is to make a game and not a web server
19:24 thexyz VanessaE: yes, let's make our minetest even more bloated
19:24 VanessaE *facepalm*
19:24 VanessaE G*D are you guys just that fucking dense>
19:24 thexyz okay
19:25 VanessaE someone already expended effort to add cURL to the engine.
19:25 BrandonReese remote media is a fantastic feature whether the engine gets "fixed" or not, like other people have already  said loads of games do the same thing
19:25 thexyz I should just make a script which compiles newest nginx (http://nginx.org/) and put it into util/
19:25 VanessaE and to add the external media features stuff
19:25 thexyz s/I/someone/
19:25 VanessaE I'm saying why wasn't that effort directed at fixing the existing code OR RIPPING IT OUT IN FAVOR OF SOMETHING NEW instead!?
19:25 thexyz VanessaE: because I thought it's the right thing to do
19:25 thexyz since other games do the same
19:26 thexyz some of them, at least
19:26 thexyz none include web servers though
19:26 thexyz (that I know about)
19:26 proller ~2 months ago there was discussion about internal web server
19:26 VanessaE I don't mean a full web server, or even an http daemon.
19:26 proller and someone wants to try embed it
19:26 PilzAdam VanessaE, you cant expect Minetest to be "the one" thing that handles everything on its own
19:26 Calinou thexyz, +1 for a script
19:26 PilzAdam you still need e.g. an OS that has a proper filesystem
19:26 thexyz proller: that "someone" will support it, update, check if it compiles everywhere Minetest does, right? right?
19:27 Calinou that would help installing a remote media server without "bloating" minetest up
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19:27 BrandonReese Lua webserver, only 146 lines of code https://code.google.com/p/lua-web-server/source/browse/trunk/ladle.lua
19:27 proller openttd have self http server
19:27 Calinou BrandonReese, is it fast?
19:27 PilzAdam BrandonReese, what license?
19:27 Calinou proller, openttd is quite bloated, to not say very :P
19:27 BrandonReese but then the engine would stop doing anything else while it serves the content over the lua web server
19:27 Calinou and it manages to be ugly while being bloated :P
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19:28 BrandonReese MIT, but it was mainly a joke :)
19:28 Exio thexyz: i think making minetest take 10 minutes to compile in a low-end laptop isn't a problem
19:28 Exio it is the right thing to do
19:29 proller thexyz, update and support not very big problem
19:29 BrandonReese It requires external libraries too like socket (obviously) and xml.parser
19:29 thexyz Exio: how much does it take now to compile?
19:29 VanessaE thexyz: false dichotomy.  How much effort is used now to make sure the existing broken code will compile and run?
19:30 thexyz VanessaE: what code are you talking about?
19:30 PilzAdam VanessaE, what code is broken?
19:30 VanessaE thexyz: the media transfer code used to populate the clients' caches on connect.
19:30 thexyz btw, cmake -DRUN_IN_PLACE=1 -DENABLE_FREETYPE=1 && time make -j25 → real 1m9.087s
19:31 VanessaE you know, the code that you guys are pushing the third-party webserver idea as a replacement for?
19:31 Exio thexyz: it takes about 25 to 30 minutes in my netbook
19:31 PilzAdam VanessaE, it works AFAIK
19:31 proller its takes 3-5 minutes on ARM
19:31 Exio thexyz: here compiling it takes between 1 minute to 2 if i'm doing other things
19:31 VanessaE PilzAdam: it works but it's dog slow.  Everyone knows this.  That's why you guys added in cURL + third-party web server, so that the slow code won't be used.
19:32 PilzAdam it doesnt mean its broken
19:32 VanessaE PilzAdam: if a third-party tool can do it 10 times faster, it's broken.
19:32 sokomine depends on the definition of "broken"
19:32 VanessaE but that's not the point.
19:32 sokomine at least it's a workaround
19:32 PilzAdam thats the definition of "broken"?
19:32 PilzAdam I always thought broken means "not working"
19:32 thexyz VanessaE: it works fairly well for small servers
19:32 Calinou PilzAdam, in ubuntu, it means "working", in debian, it means "not in stable"
19:32 Calinou :-)
19:33 VanessaE PilzAdam: one definition of broken is to not work reliably, or to work at such a poor quality of service as to basically be unusable.
19:33 thexyz it doesn't take much effor to set up a web server for big servers
19:33 thexyz so, why should we reimplement the wheel?
19:33 sokomine many servers like to use a lot of content. recently, while testing something on oldcoders server, the two participants gave almost up - it took them 17 minutes to connect
19:33 Jordach most linux servers come with apache by default
19:33 Calinou thexyz, TIL about "time", thanks :)
19:33 Exio Jordach: are you serious or trolling
19:33 Jordach seriou8s
19:33 Calinou not all of them
19:33 Jordach i know debian does
19:34 Calinou depends on hosts?
19:34 PilzAdam pythong SimpleHTTPServer
19:34 PilzAdam done
19:34 PilzAdam -g
19:34 VanessaE thexyz: why keep the old, slow code in the first place?
19:34 sfan5 PilzAdam: you forgot the "-m"
19:34 Calinou PilzAdam, is it easy to set SHTTPS to run on a port that is not 80?
19:34 thexyz PilzAdam: that's worse than actual web server
19:34 Calinou some people cannot port forward 80
19:34 thexyz PilzAdam: I guess that could go to util/
19:34 Calinou not to mention it isn't that safe
19:34 VanessaE why not just replace the old, slow code with something else that actually works?
19:34 sfan5 ^
19:34 Calinou if there is a script, it should set the web server to run on port 30030 or something like that
19:34 Calinou or 29999 :P
19:35 VanessaE and Calinou has a good point, some peoples' incoming port 80 is closed externally, e.g. by their ISP.
19:35 thexyz external web server could be a good idea
19:35 Exio VanessaE: since when http means 80
19:35 BrandonReese If their port 80 is closed their ISP probably don't want them running a minetest server on their connection either
19:35 thexyz for example, VanessaE will stop, eh, discussing this issue
19:35 PilzAdam thexyz, yea, a script that collects content of textures/ sounds/ and models/ of each mod in games/<game>/mods and mods/ and runs the python server on that
19:35 VanessaE and if your ISP sees you accepting inbound connections on that port, they'll probably cut you off for violation of your terms of service.
19:35 Calinou BrandonReese, they do
19:36 thexyz PilzAdam: yup
19:36 Calinou BrandonReese, almost no ISP allows incoming 25 or 80
19:36 PilzAdam and IIRC you can set the port to something different than 80
19:36 kahrl Calinou, what?
19:36 PilzAdam (like 30001)
19:36 kahrl they should not be called "internet" service provider then
19:36 proller 30080
19:36 Exio why would you even run a dedicated-http-for-a-game in the port 80 then
19:36 Calinou kahrl, they do want them running a minetest server on their connection
19:36 Exio s/p-/pd-/
19:37 Calinou kahrl, being allowed to forward ports 25 and 80 is never an argument for me
19:37 VanessaE kahrl: this is common in the US for example.
19:37 Calinou also: it. is. unsafe
19:37 thexyz Exio: that's fine when you already have a working web server
19:37 VanessaE even if I did try to set up an external server, I probably couldn't acually use it
19:37 Calinou run a ssh server on default port for 1 month, then on a random port for another month and see :-)
19:37 kahrl what is unsafe?
19:37 Calinou kahrl, running something on a common port
19:37 thexyz Calinou: see what?
19:38 Calinou thexyz, amount of people trying to bruteforce it :P
19:38 Exio thexyz: if you already have a working web server, the remote_media setting is amazing and brillant
19:38 kahrl sure if you just setup an apache and never update it it is unsafe
19:38 thexyz Calinou: I can only wish good luck to them
19:39 sokomine oh, that's strange. didn't know that. here, running a server is not allowed usually either, but it depends and is mostly a traffic issue. ports are not restricted. some ports used for filesharing may be slowed down by some providers (i don't know) but usually the connection is sold....
19:39 BrandonReese Calinou in my area AT&T and the local cable company both allow incoming port 80
19:39 thexyz what ports are "used for filesharing", btw?
19:39 Exio from 1 to 2^16 thexyz
19:39 Calinou not everyone uses Aspy&spy :P
19:40 kahrl I'm glad my ISP is not trying to be a kid care provider
19:40 Exio er, from 1024 to 2^16 ;P
19:40 Exio even the 3g of my phone accepts data from the port 80
19:40 Exio or 22, or any
19:40 sokomine no idea :-) just read complaints about it regarding some providers
19:40 VanessaE kahrl: the vast majority of ISPs are like that now.
19:40 Calinou not sure if my ISP does. but still, for security and compatibility reasons, the port of the web server should be something like 29999
19:40 thexyz it's way too good to not live in land of the free
19:41 Calinou minetest servers running a website will also not be "blocked"
19:41 sokomine for phones, that's great. they're usually in some limited network iirc (at least when they're not connected via wlan)
19:41 VanessaE land of the fees, home of the depraved.
19:41 Calinou imagine a minetest server running a web server on port 80
19:41 kahrl Calinou: how does a different port help against port scans?
19:41 Calinou kahrl, bots do not always port scan
19:41 Calinou and people also do not always port scan
19:41 kahrl there's enough that do
19:41 Calinou they don't find anything on port 80? well, they just leave
19:41 Calinou and like 80% of people do that
19:41 * sfan5 uses <minetest server port> + 800 for the remote_media server
19:41 BrandonReese If we're going to add webserverish features to Minetest go ahead and throw in a REST or SOAP api to control the server via web scripts
19:41 Calinou you still reduce attacks by 80% "for free"
19:41 Exio Calinou: <1024 ports are reserved to root
19:42 Calinou who wouldn't want tha?
19:42 Exio in *nix, at least
19:42 Calinou that too, Exio
19:42 PilzAdam why dont we set up a central media server @ minetest.net or so?
19:42 Calinou would be overloaded :P
19:42 PilzAdam and just throw every mod that we can find in
19:42 PilzAdam thexyz?
19:42 thexyz because, like, traffic is free, right?
19:42 Calinou if you have unlimited bandwidth, then why not
19:42 BrandonReese PilzAdam I thought about suggesting that but I ddn't want to public ridicule :)
19:42 BrandonReese to=the
19:43 thexyz PilzAdam: the problem is that there may be conflicting texture names
19:43 sfan5 thexyz: there shouldn't be any
19:43 thexyz I'm pretty sure there are
19:43 PilzAdam then remove both mods and yell at the people
19:43 thexyz like, default_something in different texture packs
19:43 PilzAdam e.g. both nether mods
19:43 sfan5 *points to the naming scheme for textures and sounds described in lua_api.txt*
19:44 PilzAdam thexyz, TPs wont be supported
19:44 sokomine 3309 objects so far according to that debug information while peacefully idling at spawn. i'd really like to know which objects that are. and if they're the reason for the fps drop
19:44 thexyz sfan5: hm?
19:44 thexyz just reference everything by sha1 hash
19:44 thexyz and we'll be fine
19:44 PilzAdam sokomine, fly away. press f4 and come back
19:44 PilzAdam then only the objects should be rendered
19:45 sokomine ah. thank you!
19:46 VanessaE good G*d.  19-22 fps at the spawn with NO content visible (I tried your trick, PilzAdam) except for a scant few entities.
19:46 kahrl VanessaE: it still renders the mapblocks from where you flew to
19:47 VanessaE kahrl: even though the screen's totally blue save for those entities?  wow
19:47 kahrl yes, F4 does that (at least I think that's what it does; never use it really)
19:48 Exio i only use it when i press f4 instead of f3
19:48 Exio :P
19:48 Calinou fun fact: F4 does not update post processes
19:48 Calinou this allows seeing inside blocks, or inside water easier
19:48 VanessaE 2781 objects visible, no nodes at all, 23 fps looking down the north road
19:48 Calinou (should be fixed probably)
19:49 Calinou this can be abused to see caves, or see in water easily
19:50 sokomine what objects can you see?
19:52 VanessaE not 2781, 271.
19:53 VanessaE (and now it's 323 and I'm just sitting there in this seemingly-blank world, doing nothing but watching a couple of mobs walk by)
19:56 sokomine i see stacked torches...5 on top of each other, looking almost like a corn plant
19:56 sokomine (on the wazuclan server)
19:56 Jordach sokomine, i play wazuclan now
19:56 Jordach even though i had powers of an admin, minus the ban and privs
19:56 sokomine a stack of shovels...
19:57 Jordach before the server became full time, i had super powers, flight, fast, give, giveme teleport, bring
19:59 sokomine here, that's one torch-collection up close: http://mg.viewskew.com/mgoblin_media/media_entries/36/screenshot_2095733683.png
20:11 sokomine or here, for example: http://mg.viewskew.com/mgoblin_media/media_entries/37/screenshot_2096439232.png
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20:23 CourtJus joined #minetest
20:24 CourtJus good evening
20:24 sfan5 hi
20:24 CourtJus I'm new to minetest but I already have fun:)
20:25 sokomine that's fine :-)
20:25 CourtJus I just miss the "hard to survive" part of minecraft
20:30 kaeza joined #minetest
20:30 kaeza greetings
20:31 kahrl hi kaeza
20:32 kahrl guess you can help CourtJus? :)
20:32 StarBlessed joined #minetest
20:34 kaeza huh?
20:34 Exio he misses the hard to survive (joke i guess) part of MC
20:34 Exio because, man, MC for survival is easy, even with 400 ms of latency! :P
20:42 CourtJus :)
20:42 CourtJus minetest lacks some monsters
20:42 CourtJus but the survival mode with thirsty and hungry is great
20:43 Menche joined #minetest
20:43 CourtJus (it's hard to find iron early in the game so I often die of dehydradation early)
20:44 kaeza blame the one who made the thirst mod
20:44 kaeza oh wait...
20:45 CourtJus :D
20:46 CourtJus i'm right, the only way to "drink" is to have a bucket and glass ?
20:46 kaeza you can punch sinks from homedecor too
20:46 CourtJus ?
20:46 kaeza (with an empty glass in hand)
20:46 CourtJus homedecor ?
20:46 kaeza another mod
20:47 CourtJus ah lol
20:47 CourtJus i don't have this one
20:47 CourtJus maybe i should
20:47 kaeza http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=2041
20:50 CourtJus hm it looks like fun
20:57 whirm joined #minetest
20:57 sfan5 good night
21:05 Uberi joined #minetest
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21:20 Kacey joined #minetest
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21:22 Kacey hi all
21:22 VanessaE hi
21:22 kaeza hey
21:22 Kacey i am setting up a VM with ubuntu 12.04 LTS on it ^_^
21:25 Uberi hey Kacey
21:26 Uberi has anyone else noticed any issues with Luacontrollers lately?
21:26 VanessaE Uberi: like what?
21:26 VanessaE khonkhortisan uses them + digilines on my server, don't recall seeing any complaints.
21:26 Uberi like setting a port causing a port update, for instance
21:27 Uberi port.b = true -> right after we get event(type="on", pin="B")
21:27 Uberi * right after, we get
21:28 Kacey VanessaE, i have no idea how to do the isolation code. my brain stopped working a bit ago because of it
21:28 VanessaE Kacey: save it for later then, but do it against pipeworks, not in morepipes.
21:29 VanessaE er not in moretubes*
21:29 VanessaE someone else may find a use for the isolation idea.
21:29 VanessaE Uberi: what should it do then?  that actually seems rather intuitive to me :)
21:30 Mati^1 joined #minetest
21:30 VanessaE (in Verilog, that's exactly what would happen, for example)
21:30 Mati^1 left #minetest
21:30 VanessaE but then, I'm not entirely familiar with how LuaC's work
21:30 Uberi VanessaE: well before that, it would become an output port, not bidirectional and sensing itself
21:31 VanessaE AH
21:31 Uberi but the main problem is that it interacts with a very long standing unrelated bug
21:31 VanessaE I see what you're getting at
21:31 Uberi that means the port state and interrupts get lost anyways
21:31 Uberi and in the end, my piston door won't close :(
21:31 VanessaE I'd call that a bug, but at the same time, I've used very similar behavior in microC's...
21:33 VanessaE (you know how it works of course - a wire stub on a µC makes a port's output readable as an input on the next server step)
21:34 VanessaE (useful for creating multi-phase clocks)
21:34 Uberi yeah, it's only about 6 or so commits that are causing the problem
21:35 VanessaE in this case though, yeah you should change it, since a LuaC is a bit more complex in behavior than a µC
21:36 Kacey joined #minetest
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21:36 Uberi khonkhortisan: does that metarule thingy make it easier to implement luac's?
21:36 Kacey uugh internet here sucks
21:37 Kacey VanessaE, i have no idea how to make the isolation code. my brain stopped working a while ago because of it
21:37 Uberi you should get that checked out
21:37 VanessaE Kacey: save it for later then, but do it against pipeworks, not in moretubes, because else might be able to use that feature for something else later.
21:38 VanessaE s/because else/because someone/
21:38 Kacey maybe riding a horse tonight will help me figure it out
21:39 VanessaE there ya go
21:39 VanessaE Uberi: in case you feel like attacking that issue, Kacey wants a feature that allows the autorouting and item_transport code to isolate one tube circuit from its immediate neighbors
21:40 khonkhortisan it doesn't affect luacs (except I had to edit them to make them read it correctly) right now it only works with multiple conductors in one node
21:40 khonkhortisan luacs would be a multi-receptor (effector?), which I didn't code
21:41 Kacey khonkhortisan, what did you make?
21:41 khonkhortisan multi-conductor nodes
21:41 Kacey screenshots?
21:41 khonkhortisan the crossover (Null Cell from redpower2)
21:43 khonkhortisan Kacey, https://github.com/Jeija/minetest-mod-mesecons/pull/112 w/ a screenshot using temporary textures
21:43 khonkhortisan and as that link was pasted, the thunder rolled...
21:43 khonkhortisan literally.
21:44 khonkhortisan and I can say it's not the most unstable part of mesecons
21:44 Kacey lol
21:45 Kacey at least it rains where you live
21:45 khonkhortisan because a crash was found in vertical wires/movestones
21:45 cisoun joined #minetest
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21:46 Uberi I thought we fixed that crash...
21:47 khonkhortisan the one where it checks registered_nodes on a unknownnode
21:47 Uberi actually yeah it was fixed in extrawires and in mvps
21:47 Uberi you might want to pull if it still happens for you
21:48 khonkhortisan I see
21:48 khonkhortisan "full audit" was the way to go
21:48 Uberi grep + manually sifting through the results
21:49 khonkhortisan I started on that using my malformed function, failed, and went to do something else :)
21:50 Uberi so did I, but when the piston destroyed an unknown node I went with the current option
21:50 salamanderrake joined #minetest
21:53 Uberi I personally can't wait for https://github.com/kwolekr/minetest/commit/98c7c7aedf0df0bf34a2dffe7636266ee1f81648
21:54 sokomine especially that read_chunk sounds very good
21:55 Uberi worldedit 2.0
21:55 StarBlessed Just got made redundant at work.  Anyone need a good Linux Server administrator, or Network admin? I'm a pretty good shot with computer repairs as well...
21:56 VanessaE fired? :(
21:56 khonkhortisan duplicate job
21:56 StarBlessed No, redundant.  It means the position is no longer required.
21:57 StarBlessed I get paid out and my contract ends.
21:57 khonkhortisan loss of job security
21:57 VanessaE damn.
21:57 Uberi that sucks
21:57 StarBlessed Yup.  3 years of working, and this.  Grrrr.
21:58 StarBlessed Anyway, if anyone knows of anything...  Thanks :)
22:00 marktraceur StarBlessed: http://hire.jobvite.com/Jobvite/Job.aspx?j=obXxXfwm&amp;c=qSa9VfwQ
22:00 kaeza wat
22:00 * marktraceur puts cloak of invisibility back on
22:00 kaeza marktraceur? O.O
22:01 kaeza hey how've you been?
22:01 Uberi san fran? IP indicates kansas city
22:02 theTroy joined #minetest
22:03 VanessaE hey mark.
22:03 marktraceur kaeza: Busy, but otherwise OK
22:03 * marktraceur waves at VanessaE
22:03 VanessaE long time :)
22:03 marktraceur Indeed
22:03 marktraceur Long enough? Time will tell...
22:04 kaeza glad to read mark.
22:05 marktraceur *nod*
22:05 marktraceur How are $peoplePayingAttention?
22:06 VanessaE doing okay here.
22:07 StarBlessed Thanks marktraceur :)  Pity Im in New Zealand.  Otherwise...  Hehe
22:08 marktraceur New Zealand, Kansas City?
22:08 * marktraceur looks sideways at Uberi
22:09 Uberi o////
22:13 VanessaE heh
22:16 StarBlessed LOL!  Thats just my server marktraceur.  I VPN through it.
22:16 marktraceur *nod* there you go
22:17 StarBlessed Yaya for "covering my tracks" ;)
22:17 VanessaE request:  someone make a mod that causes furnaces to emit smoke particles (using a client-side particle spawner that is) from the top surface when they're active, and a texture for the top that has a flue. :-)
22:18 * VanessaE <-- too lazy to do it herself :P
22:18 VanessaE ditto for torches
22:22 kaeza VanessaE, http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=2434
22:22 kaeza :D
22:23 VanessaE :P
22:23 VanessaE I was being rhetorical/joking about it.
22:23 VanessaE (else I'd have just coded it myself)
22:24 kaeza well, code it
22:24 kaeza shouldn't be more than a few tens lines long
22:25 kaeza another interesting request: make dirt emit particles when players walk on it
22:27 kaeza and another one: if temperature is cold, show players' breath
22:27 kaeza suddenly: 1FPS :P
22:28 YoungDerp joined #minetest
22:28 YoungDerp joined #minetest
22:28 kaeza <-- too busy refactoring technic
22:28 VanessaE oh you're crazy
22:49 dzho joined #minetest
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23:15 OldCoder joined #minetest
23:17 kaeza random: 96 files changed, 32840 insertions(+), 256 deletions(-)
23:18 PilzAdam ITS OVER 9000!
23:18 kaeza wrong chan
23:22 khonkhortisan but a github-related chan
23:41 JamesTait joined #minetest
23:47 VanessaE ok I've officially decided:  irrlicht 1.8 sucks.
23:47 VanessaE kaeza: is that changeset your refactoring of technic?
23:47 PilzAdam VanessaE, +1
23:48 kaeza VanessaE, nope
23:48 VanessaE oh ok
23:48 VanessaE 'cuz it kinda sounded about right for technic :P
23:48 kaeza hehe
23:48 kaeza it that was technic, it'd prolly be 256 insertions(+), 32840 deletions(-)
23:49 VanessaE heh
23:51 VanessaE and gimp is stupid - load an indexed image that has a mild alpha, it won't show the alpha at all until you convert to RGBA (then it shows it exactly)
23:52 VanessaE (but MT/irrlicht handles the image exactly as desired)
23:52 khonkhortisan what does it load it as?
23:53 VanessaE khonkhortisan: beats me.  The alpha is there.  Once you do Image -> Mode -> RGB, you can see it.

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