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IRC log for #minetest, 2013-04-15

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 sokomine nicks are expensive!
00:00 INeedANewNick I was rarkenin.
00:00 INeedANewNick I am no longer rarkenin, however.
00:00 * sokomine borrows ineedanewnick a slightly-used but still good e
00:00 sokomine why not? don't you like the name anymore?
00:01 INeedANewNick It's not my real name, and my true name is now known by a user here.
00:01 INeedANewNick Wait, they're not in THIS room.
00:02 VanessaE I just use my first name.  No point going through a bunch of trouble to pick a fancy handle.
00:02 khonkhortisan FirstL
00:02 VanessaE *nod*
00:02 Octupus VanessaE: I built a nice house you should go see and web
00:02 Octupus *wb
00:02 * VanessaE goes to look
00:02 sokomine oh! a nice house? where?
00:03 * sokomine wants to do sightseeing as well
00:03 VanessaE where is it?
00:03 jordan4ibanez How would I affect the stack using on_dig = func(pos, node, digger)?
00:03 jordan4ibanez say I want to give the dug stack metadata
00:03 VanessaE jordan4ibanez: use the various itemstack functions such as take_item()
00:04 Octupus VanessaE: On the south road I think
00:04 Octupus Its made with iron bricks and cobble
00:04 Octupus With some fences and some flowers
00:05 Octupus South bridge I think
00:05 VanessaE if it's on the south road, it's a way's out here :-)
00:05 Octupus It's somewhere aroun there not to far from space but past kirakz land
00:06 Octupus *spawn
00:06 VanessaE qah, that's over on the West end I think
00:06 jordan4ibanez vanessae but how do I set metadata to the dug itemstack if there is no callback for it?
00:06 VanessaE ah HAH
00:07 VanessaE found it
00:07 sokomine jordan4ibanez: good idea. i could use that as well - for a marker. so that one point of an area can be marked with a chest, and another one with such a marker (that remembers where the chest is). i think that might be easier for players to set up than entering /protect x1,y1,z1 x2,y2,z2
00:09 VanessaE Octupus: cute :-)
00:09 VanessaE fixed your floor for you (patterns were off a bit)
00:10 Octupus What do you see in there?
00:10 Octupus I memorized my house so ?
00:11 Octupus Or just screenshot it and make me see :)
00:11 sokomine are you still at the house?
00:11 VanessaE yes
00:12 VanessaE Octupus: some of the floor tiles were off by a quarter turn.  nothing major.
00:12 Octupus What block were the floor hmmm?
00:12 VanessaE iron checker
00:12 Octupus What are the walls?
00:13 VanessaE ironstone brick and cobble.
00:13 Octupus What's my door then?
00:13 VanessaE oak-color wood/glass lattice.
00:14 Octupus Hmmmmmmmmm 3/3 your at my house :)
00:14 VanessaE well not to mention the locked sign that identifies it as yours ;)
00:14 Octupus Ohh yea forgot about dat :)
00:15 VanessaE needs a sidewalk too
00:15 Octupus Like ma flowers at the side of ma house :)
00:15 VanessaE heh, saw that
00:17 Octupus Gonna make it prettier though
00:17 sokomine fine :-)
00:19 Octupus :)
00:19 Octupus Den ima make a little farm at the back ;)
00:19 * VanessaE looks at a minetest-related google-plus request..who is this? :()
00:19 VanessaE :)
00:20 sokomine farms are good
00:22 Octupus Lol
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00:24 jordan4ibanez how do I set metadata for an entity or item? >.<
00:25 sokomine i know how it's done for a tool. have a look at my replacer mod
00:27 jordan4ibanez wow that's very strange
00:27 jordan4ibanez you basically hacked in the metadata lol
00:28 sokomine oh, i got that idea from elsewhere :-)
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00:29 sokomine it was the usage the screwdriver stores (that has a limited durability) iirc
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00:38 jordan4ibanez local item = inv:add_item("main", "cauldron:cauldron")
00:38 jordan4ibanez local itemmeta = item:get_metadata()
00:38 jordan4ibanez itemmeta:set_string("test", "fgyeytdstgfgfgfg")
00:38 jordan4ibanez why doesn't this work??
00:38 VanessaE sokomine: "do you have normal slabs (for the wall) available?"   <-- what did you mean?
00:40 VanessaE sokomine: screenshot, as requested:  http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/Screenshot%20-%2004142013%20-%2008:39:45%20PM.png
00:40 ShadowNinja jordan4ibanez: item metadata is just a string, set it like itemstack.metadata = "data"
00:40 VanessaE I see what you meant now, so no.  the saw isn't producing normal 'wall' slabs.
00:55 jordan4ibanez So I'm doing local item = inv:add_item("main", "cauldron:cauldron") How would I add metadata or a meta integer to it?
00:55 ShadowNinja item.metadata = tostring(myNumber)
00:56 ShadowNinja If you want to store a table use minetest.serialize
00:58 jordan4ibanez attempted to index loca "item" a userdata value
00:59 Kacey http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtZQjLxdW6s we need this mod...
01:01 jordan4ibanez wait i think i might have it
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01:05 jordan4ibanez so apparently this local item = inv:add_item("main", "cauldron:cauldron") returns nil
01:08 Octupus Rawer
01:15 Octupus Start this chat up again BOOM
01:19 lordcirth I'm trying to host minetest 0.4.6, but when my friend tries to join I get "Server: peer_id=3: failed to emerge player"
01:19 lordcirth It spams over and over, he's hung at connection
01:20 lordcirth Anybody ever have this problem? know how to solve it?
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01:26 jordan4ibanez he needs to change his name
01:26 Octupus Bang bang
01:33 Kacey http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtZQjLxdW6s we really need it
01:34 sokomine where was that frontier of the map again? is 30200 still safe?
01:34 sokomine vanessa: thanks! i'll check the screenshot
01:36 sokomine hmpf. seems the shapes in the saw got mixed up
01:37 sokomine might be due to the bug. i'll have to figure out how these pull requests went.....
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01:56 jordan4ibanez look at this
01:56 jordan4ibanez http://pastie.org/pastes/7559454/text?key=1lxijkulbu9njtpi50wf9q
01:56 jordan4ibanez this fuckin mess just to set itemstack metadata
01:56 jordan4ibanez fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffufk
01:58 Kacey night all
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02:21 jordan4ibanez WOW
02:21 jordan4ibanez get_item_meta and set_item_meta, That'd be KIND OF useful in the api
02:21 [0gb_us] I think those ARE in the API.
02:22 [0gb_us] Oh, wait. Maybe not.
02:23 ShadowNinja get is, set is just itemstack.metadata = "data"
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02:30 jordan4ibanez It's just not letting me replace the metadata, I just don't know why
02:45 khonkhortisan jordan4ibanez, this mess to get the names of used images https://github.com/khonkhortisan/1x1textureresizer/blob/master/init.lua#L67-L102
02:49 jordan4ibanez lol xD
02:49 jordan4ibanez I finally successfully did it
02:49 jordan4ibanez inv:set_stack("main", i, "cauldron:cauldron")
02:49 jordan4ibanez local itemstack = inv:get_stack("main", i):to_table()
02:49 jordan4ibanez local newstack = itemstack
02:49 jordan4ibanez newstack["metadata"] = "wiener"
02:49 jordan4ibanez inv:set_stack("main", i, poop)
02:49 jordan4ibanez oops, poop is supposed to be newstack
02:51 ShadowNinja VanessaE: disable backups in gedit settings, you pushed a temp file again
02:51 VanessaE oops!
02:51 VanessaE to which repo?
02:51 khonkhortisan init.lua~, .directory, these are to be destroyed
02:52 ShadowNinja technic indev
02:52 VanessaE damn it
02:53 VanessaE fixed, and .gitignore updated to cover it for the future.
03:09 jordan4ibanez damn minetest's api might have some slight bottlenecks, but it's becoming insanely flexible
03:12 telek Indeed.
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03:23 jordan4ibanez YAY now your cauldron stays the same level when you dig it :D
03:30 jordan4ibanez crap, how do you give an item entity metadata
03:33 jordan4ibanez Fuck it, I don't have the mental capacity to support item drop with this mod
03:37 telek You mean to drop into the cauldron?
03:38 jordan4ibanez No, I mean to make the cauldron drop into an item and have itemstack metadata
03:39 jordan4ibanez I don't even think it's possible, so I'm just going to move on to the sound effects!
03:39 khonkhortisan We'll just say the liquid spills out when you throw it on the ground
03:40 jordan4ibanez that's a good idea, at max level it could bubble over and spill over an acidic liquid
03:42 lordcirth joined #minetest
03:56 [0gb_us] item_drop is WAY annoying anyway. Don't support it, so server admins will be less inclined to install item_drop.
03:57 [0gb_us] Between you and me though, I think I know how to add support for it.
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04:00 Exio I don't see a why not, it is annoying, but it makes the games a bit harder
04:00 jordan4ibanez It makes the game easier for me
04:00 Exio if there was a better support for that (some client prediction, and so? - engine tweaks)
04:00 FreeFull You could make items gravitate away from players rather than to them
04:00 FreeFull That would be even harder
04:01 Exio lol
04:01 jordan4ibanez I don't understand the issue with the items flying up when there's a bunch of them near you though
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04:03 khonkhortisan then you can design an item-chasing course where players race each other to corner and collect their items
04:04 jordan4ibanez GETCHYA ITEMS OVER HERE
04:08 khonkhortisan so would that bea  pro-greif or anti-greif measure?
04:09 [0gb_us] item_drop is way annoying, but I guess it doesn't concern me any more.
04:11 khonkhortisan I'm using an inventory mod, so I place a node, dig it, and have a stack of 99 plus one dropped node
04:12 VanessaE sokomine: you here?
04:12 jordan4ibanez Well technically khon, all you need to do is reverse the value in setvelocity in itemdrops for that
04:15 jordan4ibanez can I adjust the volume of a sound without restarting it?
04:15 jordan4ibanez with the sound handler that is
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04:41 VanessaE http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/Screenshot%20-%2004152013%20-%2012:40:39%20AM.png
04:41 [0gb_us] Nice!
04:41 VanessaE Chess set built on my server by MichaelEh.
04:41 Vargos joined #minetest
04:41 [0gb_us] That's pretty cool.
04:45 leo_rockway greetings
04:45 [0gb_us] Greetings.
04:45 VanessaE hey leo.
04:45 leo_rockway I just noticed there were changes in git. Any doc on how to compile the new version?
04:45 khonkhortisan Use luajit.
04:45 leo_rockway also, are there mobs in the new survival game?
04:45 [0gb_us] The old doc has how to compile it.
04:46 MichaelEh joined #minetest
04:46 [0gb_us] I don't know about any mobs.
04:46 khonkhortisan no there aren't mobs in survival
04:46 [0gb_us] But I also quit watching the repository, so I'm out of the loop.
04:46 leo_rockway okay
04:46 [0gb_us] I found a game called "Monster RPG 2". It sounds like a squeal, but I can't find the original ....
04:46 leo_rockway I see that minetest_game says it requires common, but I'm not sure where to clone it to.
04:47 [0gb_us] Put common in "games" with minetest_game.
04:47 leo_rockway alright
04:47 MichaelEh okay vanessa
04:47 leo_rockway and how do I build survival?
04:47 VanessaE MichaelEh: see your pm.
04:48 [0gb_us] You don't build survival, you put it in games with common.
04:48 VanessaE survival is like minetest_game.  Stick it in games/
04:48 VanessaE ditto for common and build
04:49 VanessaE (I'm glad I simply outright bundle all four games components into my Linux builds :-) )
04:49 leo_rockway alright, thank you =]
04:50 MichaelEh post the picture of the chessboard in the forums, Vanessa so everyone can see it.
04:50 [0gb_us] Yeah. My update script used to download all four too. It also downloaded dungeon, celeron55's game.
04:50 VanessaE sure.
04:50 MichaelEh got to get some sleep
04:50 [0gb_us] Good night.
04:50 VanessaE done.
04:51 MichaelEh it was worth reproducing Okean's chessboard now that Gameboom erased their world
04:51 VanessaE http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=84188#p84188
04:51 VanessaE damn.  missed.
04:52 [0gb_us] Meh. I'm sure he'll see it.
04:52 VanessaE yeah
04:58 [0gb_us] "The next instalment in the classic Monster RPG series, Monster RPG 2 is a ..." SO where do I find the original Monster RPG? I can't seem to find it anywhere, and Google is no help. It's like it completely disappeared from the web ...
04:58 [0gb_us] *So
04:58 VanessaE no idea
04:58 leo_rockway well, that worked. Thank you.
04:58 * [0gb_us] gives up and just gets #2
05:00 khonkhortisan The grain on the wood isn't even, and there's one extra on the cobble, another on the corner
05:00 [0gb_us] It looks similar to the original Final Fantasy for Nintendo.
05:00 [0gb_us] Wood as in planks?
05:12 khonkhortisan yeah, on the chess board
05:19 VanessaE I'm sure he'll fix it eventually.
05:20 khonkhortisan hey, we don't have corner grain wood
05:21 khonkhortisan http://i00.i.aliimg.com/wsphoto/v0/814229300/High-Quality-font-b-wooden-b-font-font-b-frame-b-font-apply-for-font-b.jpg
05:23 VanessaE heh
05:23 VanessaE maybe I'll add it to gloopblocks ;)
05:25 khonkhortisan Placing it would be difficult. If it was placed like an insulated mesecon corner, you could rotate it on the ground. If the viewing angle worked like pistons, you could put it on the wall. But without being able to stand on your head, you wouldn't be able to rotate it on the wall.
05:28 VanessaE meh, that's easily handled.
05:30 RealBadAngel hi all
05:30 VanessaE hey RBA.  check your pm's
05:30 VanessaE you have messages stacking up :D
05:33 RealBadAngel hehe i can see
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06:08 RealBadAngel well, i wonder why so many mesecons items doesnt have crafting recipes
06:09 RealBadAngel button, lever, lightstones...
06:09 RealBadAngel is it something wrong with my copy of mesecons?
06:11 * VanessaE checks her server..
06:11 RealBadAngel minetest.register_craft({
06:11 RealBadAngel output = '"mesecons_button:button_off" 2',
06:11 RealBadAngel recipe = {
06:11 RealBadAngel {'"group:mesecon_conductor_craftable"','"default:stone"'},
06:11 RealBadAngel }
06:11 RealBadAngel })
06:11 RealBadAngel wtf is that?
06:11 VanessaE mesecon conductor craftable???
06:12 VanessaE never heard of that
06:12 RealBadAngel i mean what that ---> '"
06:12 VanessaE that's old
06:13 VanessaE I can craft a button with stone and a single regular mesecons wire
06:13 RealBadAngel old? https://github.com/Jeija/minetest-mod-mesecons/blob/master/mesecons_button/init.lua#L93
06:14 VanessaE and the wall lever recipe works too
06:14 VanessaE mesecon
06:14 VanessaE stone
06:14 VanessaE stick
06:14 VanessaE but UI craft guide doesn't pick these up.
06:14 VanessaE the '" "' nomenclature is really old, obsolete syntax
06:14 VanessaE but Jeija still uses it
06:15 VanessaE so you have to control for that also
06:15 RealBadAngel those recipes are wrong
06:15 VanessaE I think '" "'  and  "' '"  are equivalent in that regard.
06:15 VanessaE no, they're actually right.
06:15 VanessaE that syntax is valid
06:15 VanessaE it's just old and deprecated.
06:15 RealBadAngel no it isnt
06:15 RealBadAngel get craft recipes routines wont work with it
06:16 VanessaE then get craft recipes is broken
06:16 VanessaE that syntax used to be in the API ages ago.
06:16 VanessaE ask c55, he'll verify
06:16 RealBadAngel old deprecated obsolete and you want me to fix my code to use it?
06:16 RealBadAngel :)
06:17 RealBadAngel fix the damn recipes
06:17 VanessaE yep
06:17 VanessaE I've been fixing them as I come across them, but I haven't dug into mesecons code in quite a while.
06:18 RealBadAngel i will hunt them down and pull
06:18 VanessaE either way, your code is busted, because that syntax is still considered valid, if deprecated :)
06:18 RealBadAngel so valid ive never seen such "flowers" before
06:18 VanessaE heh
06:19 RealBadAngel and actually ive seen much better inventions
06:20 RealBadAngel with use of slashes
06:22 RealBadAngel pulled the 1st one
06:23 RealBadAngel meseblock -> cookin -> 162 mesecons?
06:23 RealBadAngel lol
06:24 VanessaE yup
06:24 VanessaE 1 block = 9 crystals = 9*18 mesecons
06:25 VanessaE https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/fbc22f91d511b961b4fbf605b7d8e1b07a7c0e06
06:25 VanessaE there's the commit that removed the double-quoted itemstrings.
06:25 VanessaE way back prior to even 0.4.0 :)
06:26 VanessaE at least, removed them from the api that is
06:30 RealBadAngel shall be removed then from engine too
06:31 RealBadAngel we dont need several kinds of valid formats
06:32 RealBadAngel atm i can think of 4
06:32 RealBadAngel ' ' , " ", '" "' and this one with slashes
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06:33 VanessaE slashes?  you mean escaped strings?
06:33 rsiska joined #minetest
06:33 RealBadAngel which were used also in mesecons i think
06:33 Jordach hey all
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06:33 RealBadAngel hi Jordach
06:33 [0gb_us] Hello.
06:34 VanessaE hey Jordach
06:34 VanessaE Jordach: seen the latest changes to HDX and homedecor? :)
06:35 Jordach nope.
06:35 VanessaE check them out.  They're good.
06:35 Jordach <Jordach> fine
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06:38 RealBadAngel ive pushed some bugfixes and changes to technic indev
06:39 VanessaE updated my server accordingly.
06:39 Jordach VanessaE, ooh
06:39 Jordach nice
06:40 VanessaE thought you'd like it :)
06:47 Jordach VanessaE, hdx looks a lot better than it used to
06:50 RealBadAngel yikes, game of thrones s03e03 is out :)
06:50 Jordach VanessaE, hint: the leaves needs to be more tiled
06:50 VanessaE RealBadAngel: you broke UI again, aaa_recipeshook in depends.txt.  I just deleted and pushed.
06:50 VanessaE Jordach: which leaves?
06:50 RealBadAngel hehe noticed it too a minute ago
06:50 Jordach default:leaves
06:50 VanessaE oh those
06:50 VanessaE I still need to figure out what kind of trees default trees even ARE
06:51 [0gb_us] They are apple trees.
06:52 VanessaE I'm not so sure if that's accurate
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06:52 VanessaE for a while there they never spawned apples except if planted...like they were some kind of hybrid
06:52 VanessaE I always figured they were maybe walnut, if they didn't spawn apples.
06:52 [0gb_us] Then why do they sometimes have apples? What other kind of tree has apples?
06:52 Jordach VanessaE, latest mapgen spawns apples randomly
06:53 VanessaE true
06:53 VanessaE still
06:53 VanessaE moretrees already has nice apple trees :)
06:53 Jordach VanessaE, all Oak Leaves in Minecraft drop apples
06:53 [0gb_us] That may be, but it doesn't make the default trees not apple trees.
06:54 Jordach (every now and then)
06:54 VanessaE Jordach: ewwww
06:54 Jordach VanessaE, its like a 1/25 drop
06:54 [0gb_us] THose are called ACORNS, Jordach.
06:54 VanessaE I'll fix the leaves later on, if I can find a really good image of apple leaves.
06:54 VanessaE (the ones I use for moretrees apple trees bear blossoms)
06:56 [0gb_us] OOH! Add flowering cheries!
06:56 [0gb_us] Or don't, it's up to you.
06:56 [0gb_us] But pink trees would be awesome.
06:57 VanessaE actually, someone long ago had a cherry tree mod
06:57 VanessaE and I still have the textures for it too
06:58 VanessaE I don't remember who it was or even what the mod name was.
06:58 VanessaE gt_cherryblosson maybe?
06:58 VanessaE growing trees mod?
06:58 VanessaE If someone wants to donate a proper L-systems model and give me some biome data I'll add cherry trees to moretrees.
06:59 [0gb_us] I have no idea how the L-systems work, and I quit Minetest anyway. But maybe someone else knows how to do it.
07:00 VanessaE you quit?  why?
07:00 [0gb_us] Arguing with certain people out of game and dealing with vandals in game became too stressful for me.
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07:01 VanessaE damn :(
07:01 [0gb_us] When PilzAdam had the settings for the new camera jerking, that was the last straw for me. Camera jerking is stupid, and there should be a way to shut it off.
07:02 VanessaE maybe you just need a break.
07:02 [0gb_us] But no, he likes camera jerking, and wants to force it on everyone.
07:02 [0gb_us] No. I gave up. I'm not doing this anymore.
07:02 VanessaE :-(
07:02 [0gb_us] Unlike those before me, I won't try to erase my work from the web though.
07:03 VanessaE people are leaving in droves :(
07:03 [0gb_us] I'm not spiteful, just tired.
07:03 [0gb_us] Yeah. It happens.
07:03 RealBadAngel take a break just, it helps
07:03 [0gb_us] Too late.
07:04 [0gb_us] I already passes my world on to rarkenin, and released several inhibitors in said world.
07:05 [0gb_us] My OCD won't let me take back a "tainted" world, so I'd have to start over. But I"m still hosting that world for him, and I can't host a second world.
07:05 VanessaE maybe you will find some time later that you still want to play a little.  e.g. on someone else server.
07:06 [0gb_us] Nah. I purged Minetest from my computer already. Plus, If I play, I'm back to dealing with vandals. And possibly developers.
07:06 [0gb_us] And that irritating camera jerking.
07:06 VanessaE no vandals on my server, and the only devs there are RBA and I :-)
07:06 * VanessaE secretly re-installs latest Minetest git on 0gb's machine..
07:07 [0gb_us] Yeah, and your server is wonderful. However, I need a sense of value. For example, my main goal is to hoard iron. But on your server, material goods have no value.
07:07 VanessaE heh
07:07 VanessaE so hoard land instead
07:07 [0gb_us] Good luck, I have screen lock. You don't know my password.
07:07 VanessaE that's still quite finite.
07:08 [0gb_us] No protection. I can't put land in locked chests, and I can't protect it with protector.
07:08 [0gb_us] So I can't truly own it.
07:08 VanessaE node_ownership
07:09 [0gb_us] Yeah, but only you have access to that.
07:09 [0gb_us] If I'm not mistaken.
07:09 VanessaE yeah
07:10 [0gb_us] Creative mode is great, but it's not the mode for me. Then again, I guess neither is survival, due to vandals.
07:13 * [0gb_us] wishes for a world without people who TRY to hurt others
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07:18 VanessaE I wish.
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07:53 [0gb_us] I found a new licence: http://www.nooskewl.com/content/official-license-post
07:54 VanessaE looks like WTFPL but expressed in legalese
07:54 [0gb_us] It's as free as WTFPL, but lacks the swearing.
07:55 * [0gb_us] likes this version of WTFPL better
07:55 [0gb_us] The main reason I never used WTFPL is because of the "F".
07:56 celeron55 CC0 = WTFPL without swearing
07:57 [0gb_us] Ah, I see. I should have used that then.
07:57 [0gb_us] Too late now though.
07:57 celeron55 why too late
07:58 VanessaE he purged,.
07:58 [0gb_us] OH! I've been meaning to talk to you.
07:58 [0gb_us] Too late as my stuff I'm making is already licenced.
07:58 [0gb_us] celeron55: Are Minetest "mods" modifications or modules?
07:59 celeron55 neither 8)
07:59 [0gb_us] Moderators then? Or what?
07:59 celeron55 they're also scripts
07:59 celeron55 but the name for them is just mods
08:00 [0gb_us] Not short for anything? Okay, I've never heard of that.
08:00 celeron55 because they are modular modifications made with scripting; all of those names by themselves are misleading
08:00 [0gb_us] I see.
08:00 celeron55 in all official documentation they are always called just "mods" :P
08:01 [0gb_us] I figured "modification" was inaccurate, as modifications must be made in C++, but I though module might be fitting.
08:01 [0gb_us] Whatever works though, makes no difference to me.
08:02 celeron55 but module often implies a binary interface
08:02 [0gb_us] Anyway, thanks for clearing that uo!
08:02 [0gb_us] It does? My bad.
08:02 [0gb_us] Hmm.
08:02 * [0gb_us] has a lot to learn yet
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08:03 celeron55 anyhow, i must say i don't really understand people who delete everything when the quit
08:05 ruskie there's probably a word for those
08:05 [0gb_us] I'm quiting, but I'm not deleting my stuff.
08:05 VanessaE rather than ask why people delete their stuff, the better question is why are people leaving.
08:06 [0gb_us] I lost most of it due to hard drive failure, but the stuff I didn't lose is still up.
08:06 Calinou some people randomly download mods just in case the upload site fails :P I did that for a few mods
08:06 [0gb_us] I think deleting one's stuff when they leave is spiteful, and I feel no resentment toward anyone, so there would be no point.
08:07 celeron55 maybe [0gb_us] could try to analyze it why he is quitting
08:07 celeron55 this is a rare chance 8)
08:07 VanessaE celeron55: scroll back.
08:07 VanessaE he already did.
08:07 [0gb_us] I know exactly why I'm quiting.
08:07 [0gb_us] I analized whether or not quitting was the right option.
08:07 VanessaE in short, disagreements with code devs on how things should work, disagreements with other, unsavory parts of the community, e.g. vandals.
08:07 VanessaE core devs*
08:08 [0gb_us] It's just too stressful here while I remain bound to the game.
08:08 celeron55 well, griefers are griefers
08:09 [0gb_us] Now that I'm no longer bound, this place seems friendly once more, so I'll stick around IRC for a while.
08:09 * VanessaE piles a few cute, fluffy kittens around [0gb_us]'s feet.
08:09 celeron55 griefers are why i haven't personally maintained a minetest server in a long time (in addition to me getting somewhat bored to this genre of games)
08:09 [0gb_us] I've only met one person on IRC who I really dislikes, and he's never on anymore.
08:10 [0gb_us] Yeah, a probably permanent problem, those people.
08:10 VanessaE yeah but you find griefers in almost any game where there's some kind of construction aspect.
08:10 Calinou even without construction
08:10 VanessaE I've seen the term applies to campers too
08:10 VanessaE applied*
08:10 Calinou teamkillers in FPSes are griefers :P
08:11 [0gb_us] As for the genre, there isn't much of a goal ...
08:11 VanessaE indeed, in other games with completely different gameplay
08:12 VanessaE celeron55: the problem of griefing in minetest is easily mitigated, at the expense of some "friendliness"
08:12 Calinou not giving interact by default is boring, kinda
08:12 [0gb_us] And without friendliness, the game looses a lot.
08:13 Calinou or give it in an easy way, just to not accept obvious griefers
08:13 VanessaE maybe
08:13 Calinou (I stopped joining any MC server that requires something "heavy" to get interact)
08:13 VanessaE but which is more friendly?  a server you can be pretty sure isn't heavily griefed, or one where you have to sign on every couple of days just to rebuild your stuff
08:13 Calinou fair protection mods work
08:13 Calinou i.e. (not node_ownership)
08:14 celeron55 well, minetest would be a lot better if we designed and implemented the best possible automatic griefer avoidance stuff and included it in upstream releases
08:14 celeron55 but that's a really boring problem for me at least
08:14 [0gb_us] I think Glomie's/Zeg9's protector is the ultimate option.
08:14 VanessaE only reason I don't use protection mods of the caliber of glomie's and similar is that it makes it trivial to claim land that isn't yours.
08:14 Calinou it works nicely, [0gb_us], yeah
08:15 [0gb_us] Any protection that requires admins do divy it out is highly unfriendly. Worse than no protection.
08:15 Calinou if you don't connect for a while, why not remove your protection blocks?
08:15 [0gb_us] In my opinion.
08:15 Calinou (automatically, by the server I mean)
08:15 VanessaE griefer signs in, looks through the inventory for either a protect block or materials to make one, and suddenly they own your house because you forgot to use one
08:16 [0gb_us] Because old buildings shouldn't be wrecked. Try moving out to another city if you need space.
08:16 [0gb_us] Then the issue is to not forget to protect.
08:16 VanessaE Calinou: two words:  Papyrus Town
08:16 [0gb_us] Papyrus Town?
08:16 VanessaE redcrab's server.  oldest town on the server, badly griefed a while back because it wasn't protected.
08:17 VanessaE took Neuro and I a while to rebuild it adequately.
08:17 [0gb_us] So players need to learn to protect their things.
08:18 VanessaE and leave protection blocks all over the place, spoiling the landscape and structures?
08:18 VanessaE no thanks.
08:18 [0gb_us] It should be the player's responsibility, and the player should be given the tools. In a perfectly configured worls, no admin is needed.
08:19 [0gb_us] Except maybe to do maintenance tasks such as moving the spawn point.
08:19 celeron55 then what comes to disagreements with developers, that's just bound to happen to individuals if anything is added or done at all; and having settings and options for *everything* can in the long run complicate the codebase and divide the userbase too much
08:20 celeron55 so my answer to that really is: either deal with it, or become an active developer yourself so you can make things the way you see as good
08:20 [0gb_us] celeron55: That's fine, and I understand. But it's not something I can work with. When stupid features are added, there should be a way to disable them. For example, camera jerking and particles. These things are annoying and have no value.
08:20 VanessaE celeron55: it would, yes, but we can all agree that sometimes it's just easier to add a config option than to argue with the contingent of people who want a given option reverted.
08:21 [0gb_us] I've tried adding code, and any non-bug fix I submit is turned down.
08:21 celeron55 VanessaE: true; but the starting point should always be "no setting", and it should only be added if there is enough requests for it
08:21 VanessaE celeron55: that's fair, but how many is "enough"?
08:21 [0gb_us] The bug fixes pretty much hae to be pulled, but no one with power likes my other additions.
08:21 [0gb_us] *have
08:22 VanessaE obviously the answer to that question depends on the feature at hand.
08:23 VanessaE I personally can't think of anything that I'd want to turn off now, it all seems to work okay.
08:23 celeron55 [0gb_us]: generally additions that come out of nowhere will be discarded; it seems to be really hard to realize to people but it's equally important to communicate about an addition as implementing it
08:23 [0gb_us] Anyway, between particular developers being stubborn and vandals in game wrecking stuff, it's just too stressful for me.
08:23 [0gb_us] I see.
08:23 [0gb_us] So I should not write code, but discuss writing code?
08:23 celeron55 work itself is not useful at all; what is useful is work that is done towards an agreed direction
08:24 celeron55 it sucks as a contributor, but imagine every random person getting their additions to the core that they happened to code and wanted in
08:24 VanessaE [0gb_us]: he is referring to prestidigitator's mapgen "contributions" that were unannounced, not discussed in any way, and ultimate unwanted because they were redundant really
08:24 VanessaE at least that's the most visible one I can recall.
08:24 [0gb_us] I see.
08:24 celeron55 it would be a terrible and completely non-directed mess of random things
08:24 VanessaE celeron55: you mean like most of the projects on the internet? :)
08:25 celeron55 well... dunno 8)
08:26 [0gb_us] Well, there's still the stressful vandals. None of my stuff ever gets wrecked, because I use protection, but other people ignore protection, and blame me for not taking care of vandals. If they just protected their stuff, vandals couldn't hurt them. Somehow, it's my fault anyway. Really!? No, not my fault.
08:27 celeron55 [0gb_us]: generally it seems to be a good idea to use roughly equally much time for designing stuff together as for coding the stuff (in my experience)
08:27 VanessaE [0gb_us]: on the other hand, if one wants to contribute something, if they don't discuss it with someone, they should at least check out the list of issues, feature request, etc. and work against those.
08:29 VanessaE there, finally finished uploading updates for my server's map/game/cache
08:29 [0gb_us] When I have an issue, I try to fix it myself instead of complaining. Then I submit a pull request. The goal isn't "to code", the goal is to fix the problems I have with things. Searching the list of other people's problems doesn't help with that. Not to be selfish, but if people won't even take pull requests to fix the things I care about, why should I try to fix other people's issues? They should try to fix those themselves as well.
08:30 celeron55 afaik your fixes to issues have been noted
08:30 aheinecke joined #minetest
08:30 celeron55 even if such isn
08:30 celeron55 even if such isn't taken directly, it always influences the final fix
08:30 celeron55 either as a hint of how to do it, or as a hint of how to not do it 8)
08:31 [0gb_us] So far, nothing I do has had any real influence, save for ONE bug fix, a patch to an issue everyone was complaining about.
08:32 celeron55 by the way, where are these things you have done?
08:32 [0gb_us] None of the people in power seem to care about my other stuff. Which honestly, is fine. But why waste my time, if my time will just be wasted? I'm done trying.
08:33 [0gb_us] I've been trying to fix lack of sustainability, mostly.
08:33 [0gb_us] I've also tried to add features to chat commands.
08:33 [0gb_us] I forget what else.
08:33 Calinou <[0gb_us]> celeron55: That's fine, and I understand. But it's not something I can work with. When stupid features are added, there should be a way to disable them. For example, camera jerking and particles. These things are annoying and have no value.
08:33 Calinou ...what?
08:33 Calinou I'd like to see you as leader of a FOSS project
08:33 [0gb_us] Oh, I also tried adding configuration settings.
08:33 celeron55 but like i don't remember anything, and either i don't know your github account or you haven't submitted any pull requests on github
08:34 [0gb_us] *But
08:34 Calinou there is setting and setting, some are useful, some are not
08:34 Calinou you can disable view bobbing already, it's enough
08:34 [0gb_us] You CAN"T dissable the bobbing though.
08:34 Calinou landing effect, you can't (by the way: it affects where you point, to disabling it could give some tiny advantage)
08:34 Calinou view_bobbing_amount = 0
08:34 [0gb_us] That's the whole point, you can't!
08:34 Calinou or view_bobbing = 0 if you don't want the wield item to sway
08:34 celeron55 [0gb_us]: are you going to show me a patch or not?
08:34 RealBadAngel btw, some1 could make GUI tool to manage minetest.conf
08:35 [0gb_us] No, that disables bobbing from walking, wich I'm not needing disabled. It's so slight. It's the damage and fall bobbing that jerk so much and need to be disableable.
08:35 [0gb_us] A patch to which?
08:35 Calinou VanessaE: you can hide protection blocks underground :P
08:36 VanessaE Calinou: ok, so what about the next 10 nodes above? :-)
08:36 Calinou we could make them non-solid and transparent anyway
08:36 celeron55 i'm not trying to get you back into development, but rather i want to analyze whether there is something that i am able to change in our principles or guides that would help future contributors that may think like [0gb_us]
08:36 RealBadAngel PilzAdam forced no setting for that, Taoki wanted the config option
08:36 Calinou (but still visible)
08:36 VanessaE good luck protecting a skyscraper with such blocks, invisibly.
08:36 [0gb_us] The bobbing was a complaint, not a patch, as there WAS a setting, and PilzAdam had it removed.
08:36 celeron55 [0gb_us]: ideally i would like to see all of your unaccepted patches to core
08:36 Taoki I insisted on keeping a setting for the fall bobbing. Never the less it should be good as it is too
08:37 Calinou also, there is little reason to disable the fall bobbing, it adds a lot of feel to the game
08:37 [0gb_us] To the core? I mostly work in common and mientest_game, as I have no C++ skill yet. I'm learning C now though, C++ is probably next.
08:37 Calinou when I play without it (on older versions), it felt weird :P
08:37 Taoki Calinou: True, it is something too small to want to disable
08:37 celeron55 [0gb_us]: ah, now i get some results
08:37 RealBadAngel some like it, some dont, as usual. thus config option shall be there imho
08:38 [0gb_us] I don't think it adds "feel", I think it adds annoyance. The camera doesn't need to be jerked arround.
08:38 [0gb_us] That's all I was asking for. Configuration.
08:38 [0gb_us] No matter though. Not my issue any more.
08:38 Calinou Taoki: in xonotic you can also disable the fall bobbing, everyone does that :P
08:39 Taoki Calinou: Xonotic has a different policy on settings. There's basically a setting for every little thing. MineTest (and most projects) try to avoid settings for anything that doesn't really need them
08:39 [0gb_us] I've withdrawn all pull requests that go against PilzAdam's vission, and as soon as the last two are pulled or denied, I'll delete my fork.
08:40 Taoki I ike Xon having so many cvars personally (as long as it doesn't slow things down). Sometimes that can get confusing though. Hard to find the balance between making a setting for everything and not doing so
08:40 Calinou yes, but it's a bit hard to navigate through them all
08:40 Calinou minetest doesn't have a console where you can set settings in real time anyway
08:40 RealBadAngel lets group them and make those gui to manage all settings
08:41 RealBadAngel with just checkboxes
08:42 LunaVorax joined #minetest
08:43 RealBadAngel shouldnt be that hard, irrlicht examples are out there, copy some config file routines from mt and make standalone config utility
08:45 RealBadAngel what do you think about it folks?
08:46 swilde joined #minetest
08:46 celeron55 [0gb_us]: all of your pull requests are less than 21 days old and most of them are closed by yourself
08:46 celeron55 [0gb_us]: you're in way too much hurry in here
08:46 VanessaE celeron55: to be fair, the rate at which the codebase is moving, 21 days is an eon.
08:47 celeron55 not really; the pull requests to common mods are compatible for merging for a long time
08:47 RealBadAngel ive seen things commited after half a year already ;)
08:47 RealBadAngel clouds, shaders to name two of them
08:47 celeron55 i see [0gb_us]'s stuff as mostly as a discussion starter than ready-to-merge stuff
08:48 VanessaE celeron55: sure, of course.  I'm just thinking of how some of my own projects have gone, and I know RBA can attest to this in his projects - even a couple of days can mean the difference between a killer feature making into the project versus it having to be completely rewritten.
08:49 [0gb_us] I see. Well, the final straw was the removal of settings. I withdrew my stuff only because I was leaving anyway, and I figured it wouldn't make it in. I withdrew to speed my departure.
08:49 [0gb_us] I can't delete my fork until my stuff is merged, denied, or withdrawn.
08:50 [0gb_us] Speaking of which, I still haven't seen kaeza ....
08:51 VanessaE he's been on the forums, but last time I saw him here I think he was having connection issues.
08:51 [0gb_us] I see. I guess I'll continue to wait then.
08:52 [0gb_us] I need him to pull a bug fix, but he'll do that before my common pulls are decided upon, so I really shouldn't be in a rush with kaeza.
08:54 celeron55 i do think there are some things going on that could just rip apart this whole project though
08:55 celeron55 on the other hand there has always been so i'm not really worried 8)
08:55 celeron55 there has always been a good chance of the project just dying
08:57 celeron55 i have learnt to not care too much (which has probably kept me from stressing myself to death)
08:57 VanessaE some things going on, such as what?
08:57 celeron55 the thing i'm most worried at the moment could be that most developers aren't really playing the game much at all
08:57 Taoki RealBadAngel: Are big trees in the engine now, or still a Lua mod?
08:58 VanessaE Taoki: still in my mod.
08:58 VanessaE but the engine handles the hard work.
08:58 celeron55 or, one thing
08:58 VanessaE celeron55: ironic you should say that, since said you don't play anymore :)
08:58 Taoki VanessaE: What's the link to your mod?
08:58 celeron55 VanessaE: it's not ironic because i acknowledge it too
08:59 VanessaE Taoki: http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=4394
08:59 [0gb_us] That's the thing: the stress is too much for me.
08:59 [0gb_us] I can't be involved AND not care.
09:00 celeron55 there aren't any quick solutions to this; the simplified things to do are making the game interesting to those who currently develop it, or getting some people from the playerbase into devving or at least into being authoritative of what is done
09:00 celeron55 i have no idea how to do either, so i'll do nothing
09:00 VanessaE celeron55: I call it irony because the very thing you are afraid may kill the project is something you yourself are guilty of.  :-)       <--- note the smiley.  This is supposed to be light-hearted.
09:02 VanessaE as for who has the authority to make decisions on the game or the engine.. *shakes head*  that's a problem we can't solve at all right now, as there just aren't enough people involved in the "hard" aspects of the project
09:02 VanessaE (e.g. the nuts, bolts, and sludge of the engine)
09:02 celeron55 but really, i do think at this rate our end product isn't going to improve at least at such a rate that could be possible in an another situation
09:03 Calinou pilzadam is the person to blame, /me says
09:03 celeron55 well currently the authority is the people who do most core work
09:03 Calinou I don't know why but his comments on pull requests look... stupid
09:03 [0gb_us] Blame him for what?
09:03 Calinou for not merging nice stuff, removing settings
09:03 Calinou or answering with "there are mods"
09:03 [0gb_us] I see.
09:03 [0gb_us] I hate that answer.
09:04 Taoki VanessaE: Thanks. Though I don't understand why they aren't default yet
09:04 celeron55 well for that to change, somebody must go and work with PilzAdam
09:04 Taoki celeron55: If the engine handles the generation of large trees, why aren't they in yet? Still too slow or maybe buggy?
09:04 celeron55 he's quite the only "game developer" who dares to work with the core team in a productive way
09:04 [0gb_us] Maybe one day, after I finish learning C. Assuming I'm able to start caring again.
09:04 VanessaE Taoki: because they need plants_lib, which is not (imho) fast enough to be suitable for inclusion into common.  it needs to be rewritten in C++.
09:05 Taoki oh, ok
09:05 celeron55 Taoki: hmmmm is responsible for making that to happen some day; i guess the engine doesn't have good means to place them yet
09:05 * Taoki nods
09:06 Taoki Yeah, Pilz is a very helpful and involved dev. I fix many codes with him and get them merged soon
09:06 VanessaE pilzadam usually asks for my opinion on things he's about to commit, so at least there's some balance there :-)
09:06 VanessaE (he's survival, I'm creative...  talk about polar opposites :D )
09:06 celeron55 but really, everyone should understand that we do have resources to do more stuff, but the problems are mostly organizational, and the only one who can fix that is you, by getting to know the upstream development and working with the upstream devs
09:06 Taoki Yeah. MT is one of the fewer FOSS projects that have the luck of having enough resources.
09:07 Taoki An year ago I was complaining that there's no one around to merge codes we contribute. That changed, and a lot of awesome things are happening quickly now
09:08 [0gb_us] Yeah, I'm done with upstream devs. At least, as developers. They still hold great non-dev conversation! ☺
09:08 [0gb_us] And come to think of it, it's fun to talk about the dev stuff too, now that I'm not emotionally attached any more.
09:08 celeron55 also if the project is going to a wrong direction, it's again the reader of this text who can fix it, not the old-timers like me
09:08 celeron55 (altough, i can use my authority to make things better when i see a way to do so)
09:09 celeron55 getting emotionally attached to anything is the worst thing to do ever
09:09 celeron55 it can only cause sadness
09:09 [0gb_us] Without emotion though, I don't have the heart to do anything.
09:09 sfan5 any comments to #580 and #595 ? should I close them?
09:09 celeron55 well, it's possible towards some philosophy or so
09:10 Taoki I guess. I'm mostly attached to the things I code myself :P But not only
09:10 [0gb_us] Emotions are lame though.
09:10 celeron55 the buddhists or so have always taught that you shouldn't get emotionally attached to your code, right?
09:11 celeron55 8)
09:11 Calinou gentoo users*
09:11 [0gb_us] If I don't care, I have no reason to code. If I do care, I'm hurt when it goes wrong. There's no way to win. Life sucks.
09:12 celeron55 the key here is to think of code as a way to achieve some end result
09:12 celeron55 the code is not important but the end result is
09:13 [0gb_us] Yes, but if the ends cannot be achieved, there is no point. That's why I'm making my own game. After I learn C.
09:14 Taoki true
09:15 [0gb_us] My graphics will suck though, as will my sounds. This will be a fact.
09:15 celeron55 so does your C currently too
09:16 celeron55 use some time to learn those while learning C 8)
09:16 [0gb_us] My C is fixable.
09:16 celeron55 art and music are skills too
09:16 [0gb_us] I have the type of mind that can code, I just need to learn.
09:16 [0gb_us] I've never had a mind that could di music.
09:16 celeron55 you can get a long way by just knowing a bit of theory and practicing
09:16 [0gb_us] I MIGHT be able to learn graphic art.
09:17 [0gb_us] I used to be a violinist. I spent six years of practice, and still sucked. I can't do music well, it's not within my power.
09:17 celeron55 but yeah, most who have to learn C have done programming since being teens so it's kind of a longer project
09:18 [0gb_us] I picked up PHP right away, unlike music though. Sure, PHP isn't C, but it means I can code better than work with music. ☺
09:19 celeron55 i'm in the happy situation that if in doubt, i can do some art and music
09:20 [0gb_us] That must be nice.
09:20 Taoki Minetest is actually how I've learned C++ in practice
09:20 Taoki Other C++ codes I could barely understand, but MT's made sense
09:20 celeron55 making art and music is slow and painful and i can't play any real instrument nor know much of music theory and also i can't paint with real equipment... but when i comes to making a game, it's barely enough 8)
09:21 Taoki Kinda the same there
09:21 [0gb_us] Maybe I'll come back after I learn C then, to learn C++ with you guys. Maybe.
09:21 Taoki [0gb_us]: I suggest Mt's code as a way of learning C++. It's very easy and clean IMO
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09:22 Taoki BTW. I'm getting the feeling shaders are no longer workng for me. I have the Shaders checkbox enabled, but water is no longer lowered and sunlight is no longer smooth with daytime cycle
09:23 Taoki Is there some automated detection which fails for my card perhaps?
09:23 Taoki fglrx driver here
09:23 [0gb_us] Water isn't in the shaders any more.
09:23 [0gb_us] I don't know on the rest.
09:23 Taoki ok. Daytime isn't being smooth either
09:23 celeron55 there's zero automatic detection
09:23 Taoki hmm
09:24 Calinou new_style_water = 1
09:24 celeron55 unless somebody has added it
09:24 Calinou works with and without shader
09:24 VanessaE Taoki: check if some lighted objects like glowlights, glow glass, etc looks "dim" or "flat".  If it does, shaders are disabled.
09:25 Taoki I'm trying to help someone run MT on an older machine. But even without shaders they get 1fps. Anyone know what could improve that?
09:25 VanessaE most visible thing I can see a difference in anyway.
09:25 celeron55 Taoki: how old machine
09:25 VanessaE Taoki: he's in VESA mode ;)
09:25 mauvebic Music and art, Name two classes i completely failed lol </jeopardy>
09:26 Taoki VanessaE: She's running Win 7 though on an older laptop
09:26 Taoki celeron55: gma915gc, 2gb ddr2, pentium mobile 1.5ghz, windows 7
09:26 mauvebic though i make a kickass marbleized cheesecake :/
09:26 VanessaE Taoki: I would guess lack of a compatible driver for Win 7 then.  Remember that Vista-class and later Windows dropped support for a lot of older drivers.
09:27 VanessaE graphics I am reasonably good at.  Music, not so much.  Food, I kick ass :D
09:27 [0gb_us] Switch to Ubuntu then. The Ubuntu drivers work with Minetest.
09:27 mauvebic i love to cook, which is ironic because i dont eat much at all lol
09:28 Taoki Anyway, should it be working with the specs I mentioned?
09:28 Calinou [0gb_us]: intel drivers are slower on linux
09:28 Calinou Taoki: yes but really slowly
09:28 Calinou disable aero
09:28 Taoki She runs the classic Windows interface, Aero isn't supported
09:28 Calinou k
09:28 [0gb_us] celeron55: Ah. I see. I'm on AMD, so maybe that's why my drivers are fine.
09:28 celeron55 well, assuming GMA915 is a bit like GMA945, it'll work at more than 1fps but nothing fancy at all
09:28 Calinou [0gb_us]: >AMD >fine
09:28 Calinou uhu h
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09:29 VanessaE that would be why.  Aero is a 3D/directx desktop, no?
09:29 Calinou Taoki: disable 3D clouds, fancy trees, farmesh too
09:29 Calinou this makes minetest playable on my netbook
09:29 VanessaE if it can't run aero, it probably won't run anything else that needs direct rendering/3d/etc.
09:29 celeron55 Calinou: and the most important, shaders
09:29 celeron55 on such an old card shaders will make everything like 5x slower
09:30 Calinou these are 5× slower on anything :P
09:30 celeron55 not really, someone told they have a GPU on which shaders run faster than non-shaders for MT
09:30 celeron55 darkrose i think
09:31 Calinou not for me at least
09:31 Calinou but shaders look much better
09:31 celeron55 it was some of ATI's first card that was designed for heavy shaders 8)
09:31 Calinou I do get more FPS with shaders on xonotic
09:31 Calinou AMD is better with heavy opengl, nv is better with lightweight opengl most of the time
09:32 nashi joined #minetest
09:32 nashi allo.
09:32 Taoki hi :)
09:32 [0gb_us] Hello.
09:32 nashi Im friends with Taoki but I live in the usa.
09:33 * [0gb_us] is slightly dyslexic, and read that as "I live in the sea" at first
09:33 Taoki Yis. I was helping nashi setup MT on a laptop, but it seems to run at only 1FPS
09:34 nashi I have many computers from 386 to 6 core thuban@3.4ghz with hd6800, I am interested in minetest but cannot program, only hardware expert. I am wondering if anyone knows the exact requirements for minetest I would like to know, if not maybe I can help establish them
09:34 nashi sorry [0gb_us]
09:34 mauvebic dyslexic, is that the same as reading anagrams of whats really there?
09:34 [0gb_us] No worries. Not your fault. Plus, I found it amusing.
09:35 mauvebic or is that rather aphasic
09:35 Calinou if you're talking about recent hardware: a celeron and its IGP will play minetest fine, even in 1920×1080 but without shaders
09:35 nashi im badly disabled so I have an old used ibm x41 tablet pc Im just getting working, apparently minetest does not like the intel gma915gc video in this.
09:35 Calinou with shaders, an A10-5800K should be fine
09:35 nashi Calinou: you might have missed where I said I own everything from a 386 on up...
09:35 [0gb_us] Sometimes I rearrange words, other times, letters. Other times I add or remove words.
09:35 Calinou "recent hardware" I said ;)
09:35 nashi [0gb_us]: dyslexic too, and yeah it just messes with lettering arrangements.
09:36 VanessaE for me, shaders cost me about 5 fps.
09:36 nashi Calinou: everyone's opinion of what that term means is...different.
09:36 nashi and no, not all celerons will play minetest fine. I have a celeron 266 here that I bet wont :)
09:36 Calinou more like 40 for me but I'm still above 60
09:37 Calinou nashi: a G1610 is better than a C2D E8400 by the way :P
09:37 [0gb_us] Hmm. Should I buy gear for my (RPG) team, or duke it out with monsters with what I already have?
09:37 nashi Calinou: G1610 is that one of the new trinity APUs? or something else?
09:37 Calinou it's intel
09:37 Calinou APUs are named Ax-yyyy(K)
09:37 nashi I cant remember them all ;)
09:38 nashi ah yeah forgot that.
09:38 Calinou A4/A6 are dual core (one module), A8 and A10 quad core (two modules)
09:38 Taoki Calinou: She collects old hardware as well as new one :) But generally, I remember Intel video cards tend to have issues with 3D stuff
09:38 nashi I just cant remember what the g1610 is
09:38 Taoki MineTest is a good case cuz everyone talks about it running on some of the oldest hardware
09:38 nashi oldest?
09:39 Calinou these work fine today, for lightweight gaming
09:39 Taoki Well, much older
09:39 [0gb_us] I'm'a just go with what we have.
09:39 nashi I should get an 8088 or a z80 and see if it works tango_ xD
09:39 Calinou nashi: ivy bridge celeron, the "worst" one
09:39 nashi dont say oldest or much older hon
09:39 Calinou intel asks you 10 additional euros for every 100mhz :P
09:39 nashi Calinou: ahhhhh IB.
09:39 Calinou and 30 in the high end range
09:39 nashi er Taoki
09:39 Calinou this is how the 2700K has 3% additional perf but 10% higher price than a 2600K
09:39 Taoki yes
09:40 nashi yeah Calinou thats why I have a thuban 6 core @ 3.4ghz for my main and newest pc. newest tech to feature full real cores for all cores.
09:40 nashi this will last me a few more years then Ill decide what to do.
09:41 bas080 joined #minetest
09:41 Taoki niice
09:41 * Taoki still has a 4 core - 8 thread 2.6ghz CPU. Though it runs at 2.8
09:41 nashi Taoki: dont be silly, I know you have the i7 920
09:41 Taoki yeah :)
09:42 nashi you just need a better HSF then you can get 3ghz+ easy
09:42 webdesigner97 joined #minetest
09:42 Calinou thuban? wtf is that
09:42 nashi as I told you when you got it, 92mm heatpipe wasnt enough
09:42 Calinou overclocking, lol
09:42 nashi Calinou: the core for the 6 core phenom II
09:42 Calinou can't boot at 3900mhz on a 2600K
09:42 nashi core name**
09:43 mauvebic all this algebra lol think ill hit the hay :p
09:43 mauvebic nite
09:43 nashi night
09:43 Taoki night
09:43 Calinou day
09:43 nashi I think I like you Calinou :)
09:43 [0gb_us] Good night,
09:44 nashi but yeah the thuban is the last core made for socket AM3 though I have it in a high end AM3+ mobo
09:45 Taoki Calinou is the only MT user I know who's also a "coleague" in Xonotic :)
09:45 nashi oh neat
09:45 celeron55 wtf
09:45 nashi hi celeron55
09:45 Taoki hi hi
09:45 celeron55 well hello i guess
09:46 nashi why wtf did I do something wrong or something? >.<
09:46 Taoki celeron55: We're trying to figure out why MT worls at only 1fps on nashi's laptop
09:46 Taoki **works
09:46 nashi it's because it's a gma915gc trying to run opengl, really....
09:46 * Taoki nods
09:47 celeron55 my mom hates my collection of random crap computers, maybe i can refer to nashi from now on 8D
09:47 nashi lol
09:47 * nashi breathes a sigh of relief
09:47 nashi mine arent crap, to me anyways
09:47 Taoki nashi: BTW, if you're on Windows it also supports Direct 3D. Need to edit the config file to switch to it, but last time I tried it it worked
09:48 Taoki Yeah, old hardware can be fun to keep around and still test and use sometimes
09:48 nashi that may actually make it runnable, if I know the old intel gma cards
09:48 Taoki Ok. I'll look for the setting
09:48 celeron55 my first question is that why would anyone hate themselves enough to run windows 7 on a computer with gma915
09:48 celeron55 it must be painful
09:49 Taoki # Possible values: null, software, burningsvideo, direct3d8, direct3d9, opengl
09:49 Taoki #video_driver = opengl
09:49 nashi celeron55: http://foxtecha.com/pics/comps/fuzzy/scsi-makeover/IMG_0174-t.jpg   my custom made all scsi 386 dx 40MHz
09:49 nashi actually no its very snappy for basic tasks, celeron55
09:49 [0gb_us] Better question. Why would anyone hate themselves enough to run Windows?
09:49 Taoki nashi: Open minetest.conf from user settings and try the line video_driver = direct3d8 or direct3d9
09:49 nashi the latest ESR of firefox with all my plugins runs great, and I use over 20
09:50 nashi um [0gb_us] lets just say that linux and I dont get along, even though ive messed with it since redhat 5.2 and used to be a freeBSD fangirl from v5 to v7
09:50 nashi even for the most basic tasks, it just pukes up errors and crashes and hardlocks for me. on known good hardware iwth known good drivers. and im sick of it.
09:51 [0gb_us] Hmm. I see. Windows hates me, and Linux hates you.
09:51 nashi I wish I could run linux, I try it every few months... but I just want stuff to work, and work well, and windows does that for me.
09:52 nashi recently installed updated and configured win7 on my x41 tablet, take a look. http://foxtecha.com/pics/screenshots/x41-desktop-4.15.2003.jpg
09:52 [0gb_us] That's why I use Linux. Windows never works well in my hands.
09:52 nashi Ill put it this way. I had xmint first on this - xfce mint 14 x86
09:53 celeron55 that looks like my windowses back in 2004
09:53 Taoki I had luck with both Windows and Linux equally, though I do have modern hardware. Linux is slightly more buggy in general, but nothing I can't handle
09:53 nashi it was actually working well for a change until I tried to copy some background images off of my core2 duo file server.
09:53 nashi the transfer kept just.... stopping and hanging.
09:53 nashi so I tried over gigabit instead of wifi. same thing.
09:54 nashi I finally copied them over to my desktop from server and then onto a memstick. got them to this that way.
09:54 * Taoki sorta wishes I didn't give away my old 486 years ago. I remember how the newest OS I could install on it was Windows 98 :P
09:54 nashi then I tried to play some of my movie files.....
09:54 nashi hardlock, crash, hang, blip....
09:54 nashi just the same every time ive ever tried linux. livecd, ubuntu, opensuse, fedora, you name it.
09:55 nashi and its not like the hardware in this thinkpad or my other stuff is unusual.
09:55 [0gb_us] Oh, what? My newest RPG team mate only is able to equip a pistol, which requires ammunition. And I have no idea where to refill.
09:55 nashi then I install 7. takes a while to update but once its up and running its quite snappy.
09:55 nashi ew
09:55 Taoki nashi: For videos and mp3 songs, you need special codecs from the Packman repository. For most distros I think, due to legal issues... only Ubuntu includes them and takes the risk I heard. Still that shouldn't cause a crash, just a "codec not found" error
09:55 nashi Taoki: I know this.
09:56 * Taoki nods
09:56 nashi I had the proper codecs. just some of my files linux HAAAAAAATES
09:56 nashi its always files over the network linux chokes on for me.
09:56 Taoki Maybe you can send me one of those files. I'm curious how my openSUSE will react
09:56 nashi soon as I installed win7 though, copied over my 800mb of background images over wifiG
09:56 nashi without a problem
09:56 nashi ill have to boot xmint from my dvd or memstick to find one that does, then I will. ok hon?
09:57 Taoki sure :)
09:57 nashi remind me sometime.
09:57 Taoki yeah
09:57 celeron55 i haven't really had a single issue with the MATE version of mint 14
09:57 nashi I like xfce. but it happens with other WMs too.
09:57 Taoki nashi: Anyway, let me know if adding direct3d to the config makes it work. I'm curious if that fixes it :)
09:57 Taoki Minetest I mean
09:57 nashi ok lemme edit the file
09:58 [0gb_us] Mint is great, but MATE's menu doesn't accept additions.
09:58 celeron55 but anyways, bad luck with linux hardware support is just that, no way around it
09:58 Taoki Add video_driver = direct3d8 or video_driver = direct3d9
09:58 Taoki true
09:58 nashi these are intel and broadcom parts. its not linux hardware support. its the software crunching and burning on the files I use.
09:58 Calinou celeron55 uses a beginner-friendly distro O_o
09:58 [0gb_us] Also in Mint, I can't adjust my monitor's brightness. I can in Ubuntu.
09:59 nashi erm Taoki this is a directx7 gpu
09:59 Calinou nashi: broadcom isn't known for their linux support; intel is, however
09:59 Calinou this doesn't clean them of their anticompetitive stuff
09:59 Calinou they're worse than MS actually
09:59 celeron55 Calinou: if i need a computer just to get some work done, yes, that's what i do
09:59 nashi why would you use the os to change monitor brightness O.o
09:59 Taoki That's what I consider the biggest Linux issue at this day; Some hardware isn't properly supported yet. Windows always supports anything you plug into it (from what I know at least). On the bright side,  Linux usually runs what it does support out of the box, no other drivers needed
09:59 Taoki nashi: Ok. Try d3d8 and 9 still, maybe it will work
09:59 nashi and Calinou the intel abg locks on the same files the broadcom does too. I also have a usb realtek and it locks on them too
09:59 Taoki And automatically detect 7, don't know how the code there is done
10:00 [0gb_us] My monitor has no buttons for brightness control, it's a laptop.
10:00 Calinou Taoki: choose your HW properly and it'll work
10:00 celeron55 dealing with dx7 is irrlicht's issue
10:00 Calinou nobody is responsible for poor computer choices (99% of them sadly)
10:00 celeron55 dunno if it does it or how it does it
10:00 Taoki Calinou: Yeah. For Lnux you need to check that what you buy is compatible first, to be safe
10:00 [0gb_us] And the function keys for brightness don't work in Mint.
10:00 PilzAdam joined #minetest
10:00 [0gb_us] Hello!
10:00 Calinou since when function keys are useful?
10:00 Calinou echo "0" > /sys/class/backlight/acpi_video0/brightness
10:00 nashi [0gb_us]: oh you have one of those poor man laptops without hardware controls
10:00 [0gb_us] I use the function keys to adjust brightness.
10:00 Calinou they work for me on my netbook by the way
10:01 Calinou fn+f5 and fn+f6
10:01 nashi yes on good laptops those are hardware not software controlled
10:01 Taoki Hi PilzAdam
10:01 [0gb_us] What am I supposed to use?
10:01 VanessaE morning, PilzAdam
10:01 PilzAdam Hello everyone!
10:01 Taoki PilzAdam is another one of the main devs nashi, I solve many of my codes with him :)
10:01 nashi [0gb_us]: im talking about the way the controls work in the laptop, silly. software based controls are a cheezy shortcut inexpensive laptop makers use
10:01 celeron55 nashi: many that seem like "hardware controls" loop things through ACPI or something else
10:02 [0gb_us] Ah. Well, I haveno money, so it seems fitting.
10:02 celeron55 that's a painful thruth you'll find out when trying linux on things
10:02 nashi celeron55: ive worked with laptops back as old as 486sx 25....
10:02 PilzAdam 2/5 Abitur exams done!
10:02 VanessaE nashi: which means, PilzAdam causes many problems that Taoki has to try to help solve ;-)
10:02 nashi and hi PilzAdam :)
10:02 * VanessaE hides from PilzAdam
10:02 nashi LOL VanessaE
10:02 Taoki hehe
10:03 celeron55 nashi: old laptops tend to have more hardware stuff
10:03 nashi ok the conf.example is the correct one or do I rename it .conf and put it in the root or is it somewhere else?
10:03 Calinou [0gb_us]: people have money in 2013?
10:03 VanessaE PilzAdam: Ugh... school stuff? I don't envy you one bit.
10:03 nashi celeron55: not all of them. :)
10:03 Calinou minetest.conf.example is not a requirement at all
10:03 Taoki nashi: Example.conf lists the settings. The file you must edit is in userdata/.minetest
10:03 PilzAdam VanessaE, its easy
10:03 Calinou just take some settings, paste them in minetest.conf without the # AFTER starting and exiting minetest
10:03 Taoki On windows it mught just be user/.../minetest
10:03 nashi Taoki: yeah theres just an .conf.example there
10:03 VanessaE Calinou: *looks in purse*  yeah, I have five cents here...  wait, there's a dime...
10:03 Calinou then start and quit the game
10:03 nashi so ill copy it to .conf and edit it
10:04 [0gb_us] Don't worry, he can't get you. Where are you, anyway? He's all the way over in Germany.
10:04 Taoki Yeahm the .example files aren't counted
10:04 celeron55 if you run minetest once, it will create minetest.conf to where it belongs
10:04 rsiska joined #minetest
10:04 nashi then its not in the root of where I extracted it to >.>
10:04 nashi gawd I hate it when games dont keep their conf files where I put the game....
10:04 * nashi goes searching
10:05 celeron55 minetest does so
10:05 Taoki nashi: It might be in C:/Users/.../minetest (or in documents). I do prefer when the config is in the root folder tho
10:05 celeron55 maybe it crashed or something, in that case it won't create it 8)
10:05 Taoki IIRC Minetest has a run in place setting, but that's speciified at compile time
10:05 nashi it didnt, theres no .conf in c:\games\minetest\
10:05 Taoki Hmm
10:06 Calinou suggestion for common: on sandstone, use one texture for side, one for top and one for bottom
10:07 [0gb_us] Why?
10:07 Taoki Yeah. MC does it like that, I think it's a bit prettier
10:07 VanessaE why?
10:07 Taoki It's more styled I think
10:07 * [0gb_us] mutters about more copying of Minecraft
10:07 celeron55 the official minetest zips are a run-in-place build
10:07 celeron55 dunno about rubenwardy's installer
10:07 nashi real sandstone looks different on the top, the sides, and the bottom. *shrug*
10:07 nashi celeron55: I got the latest mc zip, next to the beta installer which I did not get.
10:07 PilzAdam nashi, in the real voxel world?
10:08 Calinou stop being so mut (:D) about that, [0gb_us]
10:08 nashi PilzAdam: what does a car company have to do with.... ;)
10:08 Calinou we should copy MC and improve it
10:08 Calinou not "differ from it because we're FOSS"
10:08 Taoki nah. There is a Minecraft mod for Minetest still
10:08 Calinou copy MC as in, the not-annoying features
10:08 nashi yeah searched my whole hdd, no minetest.conf at all
10:08 VanessaE Calinou: that's what Minitest is supposed to be.
10:08 [0gb_us] It's not like I care any more, but "Minecraft does it" is not a valid excuse for you Minetesters to do it.
10:08 Taoki Right. Take what's good from it
10:08 Calinou depends on whether you want to kill minecraft's sales :)
10:09 Taoki [0gb_us]: Yeah. Only get the good things from MC
10:09 Taoki As in ideas
10:09 Calinou gtg
10:09 Taoki later
10:09 nashi yeah dont build this in java PLEEEEASE
10:09 Taoki MineTest will never be in java/ C++, Irrlicht engine and Lua
10:10 VanessaE java?  bite your tongue.
10:10 Taoki **it is in C++ Irrlicht and Lua
10:10 Taoki Yeah. Java is only good cuz it runs in browser, MineCraft is the only case I know of it running 3D
10:10 nashi ok. there is no minetest.conf in my entire hdd, and I did run it with UAC turned off, and I did run the run in place version, and I did run it in a location outside of program files directory.
10:10 celeron55 lol, porting 50k lines of C++ to Java wouldn't make any sense
10:10 nashi it also did not crash, I exited it normally.
10:11 Taoki Strange then
10:11 celeron55 just create it then, to the same directory as where the .example is
10:11 PilzAdam is Lua embedable into Java?
10:11 nashi doing so now celeron55
10:11 celeron55 PilzAdam: of course it is
10:11 Guest86777 joined #minetest
10:12 Taoki nashi: Just to be sure it's not a permission thing, try right click and "Run as admin". Just if it didn't come to mind... in some rare cases that solved things for me
10:12 ungali_mobile joined #minetest
10:12 nashi Taoki: I have UAC off. my account *IS* an admin.
10:12 Taoki oh ok
10:12 nashi Ive gotten tired of those headaches long ago and fixed it.
10:12 Taoki Yes, create minetest.conf manually then, should work
10:12 * Taoki nods
10:12 bas080 joined #minetest
10:13 nashi blug... stupid default notepad. downloading notepad2, f/oss which reads linux text files without cr/lf properly
10:14 Taoki Oh... on a separate note. I've been thinking about trying to code support for colored light sources, so items which cast light can be given a color for that light in the Lua API. Would that be an ok thing to try making?
10:14 celeron55 it's ridiculous that even w7's notepad doesn't understand \n
10:14 Taoki Unrelated to the ahrdware lighting discusssion, don't think I know enough to go that far :P
10:14 VanessaE YES!
10:15 Taoki Someone did that long ago (before Lua was even added) but didn't post the code. It looked awesome in MineTest
10:15 nashi thats microsoft saying snootynose to linux and trying to get people that dont know any better to think linux breaks text files. stupid and aggrivating.
10:15 Taoki Ok :) I'll see if I can look into that today. Hopefully I can manage to do it
10:15 [0gb_us] I see. That's as underhanded as ever, Microsoft.
10:15 Taoki Issue is there's one value for light intensity being stored now, and this would mean storing 3. Need to see how I can do that without breaking the existing setup either
10:16 celeron55 well it's the same as what they did with their new "open" office document format; it's just for breaking things
10:16 Taoki Finished what I had in mind for the Structure I/O and Mapgen mod, so maybe I can work on that some
10:17 [0gb_us] Yeah. So many broken standards ...
10:17 celeron55 nobody benefits at all
10:17 Taoki celeron55: Something I'm confused about. You said minetest.conf is in the root folder by default. But when compiling from GIT with default cmake options, the config is in /home/username/.minetest
10:18 Taoki Is it only default for release builds?
10:18 Taoki Or maybe only a Linux thing
10:18 nashi they do. more sales. thats what they are here for. which gets into politics - discussion of why an absolute (profit based society like USA) is a bad thing
10:18 nashi I forgot the name. sorry, ive got a neurological disorder
10:20 celeron55 Taoki: default options have RUN_IN_PLACE=0
10:20 celeron55 except that for windows it's 1
10:22 nashi yyyeah still unplayable but its actually faster.
10:23 nashi erm
10:23 nashi ok, in the titlebar it still says opengl 1.1.0
10:23 nashi but it made me re-set all my customized keybindings....
10:24 Taoki It's likely running direct3d if you set that. Someone should fix the titlebar in that case
10:24 nashi so no its not reading the minetest.conf in the root of the minetest directory
10:26 celeron55 Taoki: the title is given by irrlicht
10:26 Taoki ah, ok
10:26 celeron55 nashi: which package of MT are you using
10:26 nashi minete3st ver-0.4.6 run in place =1 by the esc screen
10:27 nashi 1fps looking down at water :p
10:27 celeron55 well then that's just odd
10:27 markveidemanis joined #minetest
10:28 nashi the reason im using this tablet is that im basically housebound and sometimes bedridden. cant always even sit up, severe pain.  ive got a bunch of very bad health issues including a terminal degenerative neurological one.
10:29 nashi hey celeron55 would the path_user be where it tries to read the minetest.conf from?  that's bin/ and I can put the conf there to try
10:30 Taoki From what I remember myself yes, but can't tell for sure
10:30 nashi Taoki: I asked celeron not you
10:30 PilzAdam path_user is the minetest folder in run_in_place=1
10:30 mr0wl_ joined #minetest
10:30 nashi so will it only access the minetest.conf from that directory and not the root minetest one one level up?
10:31 PilzAdam (so its minetest/bin/../)
10:31 nashi sort of. to be specific...
10:31 nashi C:\games\minetest-0.4.6
10:32 PilzAdam then put minetest.conf into C:/games/minetest-0.4.6/minetest.conf
10:32 proller joined #minetest
10:32 nashi thats where we are having the problem of it not reading from!
10:32 LunaVorax joined #minetest
10:33 Taoki nashi: Another idea if I may. After restarting minetest, check that the settings you disabled (3D clouds, opaque water, etc) stayed disabled. If they did, a minetest.conf was generated somewhere somehow
10:33 nashi trying now
10:33 Taoki Since that's where any change is stored
10:33 nashi yes, are saved.
10:33 nashi erm
10:33 Taoki ok. There must be a minetest.conf somewhere then.
10:33 nashi yeah its still in opengl
10:34 nashi Irrlicht Engine version 1.8.0
10:34 nashi Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate Edition Service Pack 1 (Build 7601)
10:34 nashi Using renderer: OpenGL 1.1.0
10:34 nashi GDI Generic: Microsoft Corporation
10:34 nashi OpenGL driver version is not 1.2 or better.
10:34 nashi Failed to load OpenGL's multitexture extension, proceeding without.
10:34 nashi Warning: OpenGL device only has one texture unit. Disabling multitexturing.
10:34 nashi GLSL not available.
10:34 nashi Resizing window (800 600)
10:34 nashi Loaded texture: C:/games/minetest-0.4.6/textures/base/pack/menuheader.png
10:34 Taoki If they are persisted a minetest.conf exists and it's the one being used. But in a location that's very hard to find
10:35 Taoki I think I remember something. The path might be C:/Users/Username/.minetest, but .minetest might be marked a hidden folder. I don't remember well since last time I used Windows 7
10:35 mr0wl joined #minetest
10:35 nashi I turn on hidden show hon
10:35 Taoki ok. It's really strange then
10:36 Taoki A minetest.conf exists somewhere for sure, otherwise no setting would be persisted. But where could it be hidden so badly :P
10:36 ruskie it's probably %appdata%
10:36 nashi no kidding
10:36 nashi im in there right now ruskie
10:36 nashi its not there.
10:36 ruskie did you check under roaming/local/and there's some other?
10:37 nashi yes, I did.
10:37 Taoki really odd, and makes no sense
10:40 nashi yeah its not reading that minetest.conf   its still got WASD for the binds, I rebound to arrows
10:43 Taoki celeron55: Does Minetest print the path to the user folder at startup in any circumstance, if you run it from a console?
10:43 Taoki Like where it reads the conf from
10:43 mr0wl_ joined #minetest
10:43 Taoki Actually I'll check that
10:43 PilzAdam bin/minetest --verbose
10:44 PilzAdam 12:43:37: INFO[main]: Using relative paths (RUN_IN_PLACE)
10:44 PilzAdam 12:43:37: INFO[main]: path_share = /home/adam/Minetest/minetest/bin/..
10:44 PilzAdam 12:43:37: INFO[main]: path_user  = /home/adam/Minetest/minetest/bin/..
10:44 Taoki Ah, found a log line that's useful once I load my world: 13:42:40: ACTION[main]: World at [/home/mircea/.minetest/worlds/Mircea]
10:44 Taoki It prints where you loaded the world from. The minetest.conf is likely stored in the same location where worlds are
10:45 PilzAdam Taoki, use --verbose
10:45 Taoki nashi: Try running it from a console and see where the line "ACTION[main]: World at" points to. And --verbose like PilzAdam suggested
10:45 Taoki **With --verbose
10:45 Taoki yeah
10:46 Taoki With --verbose it's even better
10:46 Taoki 13:44:37: INFO[main]: logfile    = /home/mircea/.minetest/debug.txt
10:46 Taoki That indicates the path too
10:46 nashi erm....
10:47 nashi it looks like the base dir is worlds directory
10:48 Taoki Is debug.txt there too?
10:49 Taoki As well as a "cache" folder
10:49 nashi no. freaky.
10:49 Taoki Indeed
10:50 PilzAdam ... you know that path_share and path_user are actually printed to the console with --verbose?
10:50 Taoki oh, I'll check that
10:50 [0gb_us] joined #minetest
10:51 Taoki Eh, for me it says 13:49:32: INFO[main]: Using system-wide paths (NOT RUN_IN_PLACE)
10:51 nashi yes its showing that PilzAdam but its not using them.
10:51 nashi the minetest.conf in that directory is most definitely not is what is being used.
10:51 PilzAdam Taoki, read 2 lines further
10:51 Taoki yes, it's showing those too, sorry
10:52 PilzAdam nashi, run it with --config path/to/minetest.conf
10:52 nashi k
10:53 Taoki right. That can help until the mystery is solved (if it can be)
10:54 nashi PilzAdam: ok... it has my modified keybinds, which arent in that minetest.conf!
10:55 nashi this is just infuriating.
10:55 celeron55 well what the fuck
10:55 Taoki really strange..
10:56 Taoki Can't think of anything, never had such happening in my case :/
10:56 nashi its still trying to use opengl renderer
10:56 nashi so its not using the minetest.conf I just told it to
10:56 nashi that command line switch isnt doing a damn thing.
10:57 celeron55 if you give it --config, it should either load that config or just fail immediatley
10:57 celeron55 immediately*
10:57 PilzAdam nashi, you are doing something wrong
10:57 nashi dont try that shit on me. lemme give you a screenshot to prove it.
10:57 PilzAdam nashi, do you have a # at the beginning of your settings in minetest.conf?
10:58 VanessaE (2 minutes later:  <nashi> um...well wait a sec here...)
10:58 VanessaE ;)
10:58 nashi VanessaE: nope.
10:59 celeron55 the chances of this happening as it is described are so close to zero that i don't really even believe it now
10:59 nashi this is too damn slow to try to get them all rnning in windows and arranged. lemme get this on my desktop for the screenshot.
10:59 jojoa1997|Tablet joined #minetest
10:59 Taoki celeron55: Something strange is happening somehow
11:00 Taoki In the code or with the paths
11:00 celeron55 the way --config is handled is so simple that it can't fail to do what it's asked to
11:01 Taoki Yeah, makes the problem even weirder. Trying to think if something in the system could cause paths to fail, etc
11:01 nashi unless its programmed wrong so that the underlying engine is mucking it up in the os.
11:02 PilzAdam nashi, please paste your minetest.conf you are trying to load
11:03 Taoki Just tested. If the path is wrong in --config parameter, it won't start up at all
11:03 nashi give me a moment, setting up and installing minetest on desktop
11:04 sfan5[Mac] joined #minetest
11:04 nashi yep I set things up after using --config file and it resets them.
11:04 sfan5[Mac] joined #minetest
11:04 Taoki Awesome! It means it's using the specified one at last
11:04 nashi one sec PilzAdam
11:04 nashi no it doesnt tango_
11:04 nashi er Taoki
11:04 Taoki ok
11:05 Taoki I need to go eat, will be away for a few minutes if that's ok
11:05 Taoki Hope all goes well ^^
11:05 [0gb_us] Are you editing the conf while Minetest is running?
11:05 [0gb_us] You have to shut down Minetest before editing the conf.
11:06 nashi http://foxtecha.com/files/minetest.conf
11:06 nashi I do shut it down [0gb_us]
11:07 nashi im not.... that kind of special person. :)
11:07 [0gb_us] Okay, darn.
11:07 [0gb_us] I thought I had an easy solution! ☺
11:07 nashi ill put it this way, I cant wrap my head around opject oriented coding, but I taught myself TRSDOS for the TRS-80, apple BASIC, and microsoft QBASIC back when it was in DOS 6
11:08 PilzAdam nashi, are you fucking kidding me?
11:08 nashi excuse me?
11:08 PilzAdam you _have_ a # at the beginning of the driver setting line
11:08 PilzAdam the # comments the line out, so its ignored
11:08 nashi no, *I* do not. the entire file does by default. and half the programs ive edited settings for have that sort of thing required.
11:08 PilzAdam the correct line would be "video_driver = direct3d8" and not "#video_driver = direct3d8"
11:08 nashi I learned that many moons ago when removing those for several programs.
11:09 PilzAdam just remove the #
11:09 nashi so how am I supposed to somehow instinctively know which to do for your very special program?
11:09 celeron55 maybe read the text at the of that file
11:09 celeron55 top*
11:09 PilzAdam I asked you if you have it there
11:09 ruskie nashi, # is generally a comment in a lot of configs and a few languages as well
11:10 nashi how about you look at what ive said so far, im extremely disabled, everything hurts, and I have advanced neurological effing problems. it hurts like hell to type it hurts like hell to do anything, and im trying to hold my mind together to do simple things that used to be so easy to me.
11:10 nashi so give me a little damn slack, ok?
11:11 celeron55 no
11:11 nashi 80% of people die by the time they reach year 10 of multiple system atrophy and im in year 12. those remaining people are usually in effing nursing homes. docs tell me they dont know how im still alive
11:11 nashi so shove it up your ass about YOU not telling me that had to be removed.
11:12 celeron55 lol
11:12 PilzAdam I knew it
11:12 celeron55 this is just ridiculous
11:13 celeron55 she types quite a lot considering it hurts so much
11:14 VanessaE jeez
11:14 celeron55 i'd guess reading the top of minetest.conf.example would be slightly easier than typing that wall of text anyways
11:15 Jordach VanessaE, youre up late
11:15 Jordach or maybe, youve woke up early like me
11:15 VanessaE Jordach: yeah.  no sleep tonight :-/
11:15 VanessaE insomnia sucks.
11:16 sfan5 fuck! virtualbox crashed again
11:19 sfan5[Mac] joined #minetest
11:19 sfan5[Mac] ....now back to work
11:20 VanessaE show that program who's boss :)
11:21 Jordach VanessaE, he's using a MAC! KILL HIM!
11:21 celeron55 who needs OSX anyway 8)
11:21 sfan5[Mac] iphone app developers...
11:21 [0gb_us] At least OS X is better than that piece of trash, Windows.
11:21 sfan5[Mac] yeah
11:21 VanessaE what's wrong with mac, aside from being Apple? :)
11:21 Jordach Minetest App?
11:21 sfan5[Mac] Jordach: i'm compiling irrlicht
11:21 celeron55 who needs iphone :P
11:21 Jordach \O/
11:21 Jordach celeron55, the bovine masses
11:22 celeron55 lol
11:22 Jordach who wouldnt mind a free game of Minetest
11:22 Taoki back
11:22 sfan5 THIS FUCKING VIRTUALBOX CRAP
11:22 sfan5 *sigh*
11:22 Taoki celeron55, PilzAdam: You could have responded better to her :/ You saw what she wrote about being disabled. She needed help with a problem which apparently was difficult to solve
11:22 * Jordach hugs sfan5
11:23 sfan5 it can't compile irrlicht and run an irc client at the same tim
11:23 sfan5 *time
11:23 sfan5 atleast it somehow preserves the execution state of the processes
11:23 sfan5 (when it crashes)
11:25 sfan5[Mac] joined #minetest
11:25 celeron55 Taoki: i guess her life is very hard if she goes around with that attitude
11:25 sfan5[Mac] ...
11:25 celeron55 she could've just said she sucks and went on
11:26 celeron55 that's what i'd have done
11:26 Taoki I don't agree. But no need to go into a debate about it...
11:27 Taoki She also mentioned that removing the # didn't fix it
11:27 Jordach well. most people struggle with removing the simplest of drivers on windows these days.
11:27 Jordach we need BETTER IT lessons globally.
11:27 Taoki And she's (rightfully) upset for how you acted there. But again, no need to go into that... it doesn't help
11:27 celeron55 if somebody needs some kind of special serving, that somebody should state it very clearly beforehand
11:28 Taoki It's not what she meant. It's just that doing many things is very difficult and stressful for her. It's a lot different when you're in such a position
11:28 celeron55 i won't go into guessing how i should behave on the internet based on some vague aside mentions of something like it didn't matter
11:28 Taoki I know her for many years, and got to understand how that's like. Many people don't
11:29 Jordach Taoki, celeron55 my school is like this everyday, shame i have to go there (fuck autism) and the annoyance of highest IQ
11:30 Jordach (yes, im the most intelligent.)
11:30 * Jordach watches Thunderbird fill my inbox with unred messages
11:31 VanessaE celeron55: simple rule.  "That which is hateful to you, don't do to another."
11:31 celeron55 also, i didn't even say anything but "no"
11:32 celeron55 go blame PilzAdam if you wish to blame someone
11:32 Jordach i FEEL OLD http://c55.me/~celeron55/random/2012-03/screenshot_628953797.png
11:32 Jordach I*
11:32 * Taoki doesn't agree with how PilzAdam acted either
11:32 celeron55 next time i'll not try to help anyone if they come here, apparently it makes people happier 8)
11:32 VanessaE no blame being assigned, merely answering your statement of "how you should act".
11:32 Jordach PilzAdam usually does give stick to everyone who dont agree with him
11:33 Taoki Yeah, not trying to find blame either. It just feels wrong that some people wish to act in a certain way
11:34 Jordach i've just caught up to LAST YEAR in unread email
11:34 VanessaE Jordach: dayum.  remind me never to try to contact you by email :)
11:34 Jordach VanessaE, i read em
11:35 celeron55 anyway, i respect PilzAdam for even daring to start questioning the # that nobody did
11:35 Jordach but i use a gmail add-on so i can read it by right clicking it
11:35 Jordach (but leaves it unread)
11:35 celeron55 nashi should be thankful that PilzAdam doesn't have that much respect for her, otherwise the problem would've gone unnoticed
11:35 VanessaE or someone else would have caught it.
11:35 * Taoki prefers not to comment
11:36 celeron55 but as i said, some people are best left unhelped
11:36 Jordach yeah
11:36 celeron55 for some reason
11:36 * Jordach thinks minetest needs a help desk
11:38 cosarara97 joined #minetest
11:38 sfan5[Mac] why?
11:38 Jordach because we answer the SAME QUESTIONS DAY IN, DAY OUT
11:39 ruskie wouldn't a FAQ be good enough?L
11:40 Jordach ruskie, not everyone does the same thing
11:40 Jordach most windows users run the game from the .zipball
11:40 Jordach *which* doesnt work
11:41 VanessaE and that's a question I did not see addressed in this ...discussion.
11:41 xming joined #minetest
11:42 VanessaE ruskie: good luck getting anyone to *read* it.
11:43 [0gb_us] So ... Maybe the Windows users should compile it?
11:44 Jordach [0gb_us], nobody compiles on windows
11:44 VanessaE hah!  you seeing unicorns where you live, 0gb? :)
11:44 [0gb_us] Maybe they should though.
11:45 [0gb_us] No, I'm not on drugs or something, VanessaE.
11:45 Jordach [0gb_us], nobody uses cmake on windows
11:45 Jordach it doesnt work
11:45 [0gb_us] Then quit using WIndows. Windows doesn't work either.
11:46 Jordach [0gb_us], /ctcp jordach version
11:46 sfan5 ...
11:46 * Jordach uses ubuntu
11:46 [0gb_us] - Unknown command; see /help for the available commands
11:46 VanessaE [0gb_us]: that much I can agree with :-)
11:47 [0gb_us] I didn't mean you personally shouldn't use WIndows.
11:47 [0gb_us] I mean in general. If the build isn't working, an building it themselves doesn't work on Windows ...
11:47 Jordach >jordach< CTCP VERSION
11:47 Jordach * Received a CTCP VERSION from Jordach
11:47 Jordach -Jordach- VERSION xchat 2.8.8 Ubuntu
11:47 markveidemanis Will irc mod work with minimal?
11:48 Jordach markveidemanis, the source needs a changing for IRC mod
11:48 Jordach READ THE FIRST FUCKING POST.
11:48 [0gb_us] Yes it will, asside from the crash that has no error message.
11:50 Jordach finally caught upto january 1st, 2013
11:50 Taoki celeron55, PilzAdam: Congrats. She deleted Minetest due to how the people who made it are like. Glad we know how to interact the community :/
11:51 [0gb_us] Meh. The game doesn't need players anyway.
11:51 Jordach [0gb_us], probably right
11:51 sfan5[Mac] joined #minetest
11:51 Taoki I'm sorry that the main devs treat others this way, sorry to say it
11:51 * Jordach is disliking the converted minecrappers
11:51 * Jordach points the gun away from sfan5
11:51 [0gb_us] Yeah, they were bothersome.
11:51 Jordach sfan5 is an exception
11:52 PilzAdam Taoki, the way she talked to me and others in the channel made me act like this
11:53 * Jordach was playing Mortal Kombat
11:53 PilzAdam and I dont really care if she has physical problems, I cant really know that in IRC
11:53 * Jordach has finally made it to 1st March 2013
11:54 Taoki PilzAdam: She felt people are being mean and prejudicious to her. She is a seensitive person, but I think others should know to be more careful and try explaining things better.
11:54 Taoki Some don't really notice those things. Others can be easily affected by it
11:54 * sfan5[Mac] had finally compiled Irrlicgt
11:54 sfan5[Mac] *Irrlicht
11:55 Jordach sfan5, Mac Maintainer
11:55 sfan5[Mac] no,no
11:55 sfan5[Mac] please no
11:55 Jordach ^ is going to hell
11:56 markveidemanis 118
11:56 markveidemanis Hmmmm...
11:56 minetest-D1BC56E joined #minetest
11:56 Jordach 0800 118 118 is the phone number for a telephone operator in the UK
11:56 markveidemanis I guess it works...
11:57 minetest-D1BC56E *** markveidemanis joined the game
11:57 minetest-D1BC56E *** markveidemanis left the game
11:57 Jordach sfan5, kick minetest-D1BC56E
11:58 markveidemanis Does this even work?
11:58 Jordach <minetest-D1BC56E> *** markveidemanis joined the game
11:58 Jordach <minetest-D1BC56E> *** markveidemanis left the game
11:58 Jordach does THAT say anything
11:58 minetest-D1BC56E was kicked by sfan5: no spammy bots
11:58 markveidemanis Its not spammy!
11:58 Jordach markveidemanis, dont make me join the server and just literally spam
11:58 sfan5[Mac] it is
11:58 markveidemanis ok, sorry
11:58 Jordach because it would broadcast such
11:59 markveidemanis It will be on #mtmt now
11:59 markveidemanis channel is in init, right?
12:00 Jordach naw shit
12:00 Jordach go check
12:03 Jordach emails finally clear
12:06 ImQ009 joined #minetest
12:08 [0gb_us] The channel is in minetest.conf.
12:08 [0gb_us] *The channel is set in minetest.conf.
12:09 [0gb_us] If you have an up to date copy, anyway.
12:09 markveidemanis with external_commands, can i use python to edit the file?
12:09 [0gb_us] Not sure.
12:09 Jordach NO
12:09 Jordach python is a programming language, not a FUCKING TEXT EDITOR.
12:10 * [0gb_us] used to use PHP as a text editor
12:10 * sfan5[Mac] likesvim
12:10 sfan5[Mac] *likes vim
12:10 VanessaE nano ftw. :)
12:10 * Jordach likes emacs
12:10 markveidemanis PYTHON
12:10 markveidemanis file.open
12:10 Jordach ^ knows nothing
12:10 markveidemanis file.write
12:11 * tripod eats vim
12:11 markveidemanis file.write(line)
12:11 sfan5[Mac] tripod: :(
12:11 tripod because i love it so much sfan5[Mac]
12:11 Jordach http://xkcd.com/378/
12:11 VanessaE markveidemanis: why would you want to write a file with python from inside a lua mod?
12:11 * [0gb_us] will not participate in this text editor war
12:12 markveidemanis It says use bas but i think it only matters that i edit it
12:12 markveidemanis And i only know python
12:12 VanessaE you're doing it wrong.  If you need to write a file, from with Lua, do it with Lua code, not an external command.
12:14 markveidemanis Theres no harm in trying
12:14 VanessaE yes there is.
12:14 VanessaE you are overcomplicating the matter.
12:14 [0gb_us] It makes the code harder to maintain.
12:15 VanessaE and you make the assumption that the user will have python installed.
12:15 [0gb_us] OH! That too.
12:15 VanessaE why should they need two interpreted languages to do what the outer one (Lua) can do on its own?
12:19 markveidemanis IT WORKS
12:26 markveidemanis I have a mod request
12:26 markveidemanis GUI that places blocks in the world
12:26 ChauffeR joined #minetest
12:30 celeron55 markveidemanis: it's called minetest
12:30 john_minetest joined #minetest
12:30 Taoki Hmmm. I'm thinking of trying to code support for colored lights, but am not sure about one thing; Should I modify the existing light value to hold 3 parameters instead of 1, or make a new field for the color of the light?
12:31 Taoki The second option sounds better. More correct and also more doable
12:31 VanessaE second option.
12:31 Taoki That if I even figure out how to get it working at all
12:31 Taoki ok
12:31 markveidemanis Hmm?
12:31 VanessaE light_color = "rrggbb",
12:31 VanessaE seems simple enough.
12:31 markveidemanis http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=83557#p83557
12:31 markveidemanis I know its called minetest...
12:32 VanessaE or just a number specifying the hue in degrees, maybe.
12:32 Taoki RGB is best
12:32 VanessaE ok
12:33 LunaVorax joined #minetest
12:35 * [0gb_us] wishes there was a way to freeze an arbitrary application's state to be used later
12:37 RealBadAngel Taoki, ive seen already here a branch with couloured lights
12:37 Taoki RealBadAngel: Really? Where?
12:37 RealBadAngel quite old, celeron pointed to it one day
12:38 Taoki Is it before the lua API got added? Could still help to look at the code
12:38 rsiska joined #minetest
12:41 RealBadAngel http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=1262
12:41 RealBadAngel but im afraid content is deleted
12:41 Kacey joined #minetest
12:41 Kacey joined #minetest
12:42 RealBadAngel i remember watchin a video for it
12:45 celeron55 [0gb_us]: i wonder if there is any OS that would natively support that :P
12:45 celeron55 it would require mandatory built-in support at the library level, everywhere
12:45 [0gb_us] Not sure. It might be worth trying to build once I know C.
12:46 celeron55 maybe some experiemntal OS that nobody actually uses
12:46 [0gb_us] Not the whole operating system, but the support, I mean to build.
12:47 celeron55 the program can't use any regular libraries then
12:47 celeron55 because they have internal state, and at some point they connect to hardware in some way you can't manage
12:48 [0gb_us] Hmm. Maybe not then.
12:48 celeron55 8)
12:48 celeron55 there's often a reason why something hasn't been done
12:49 [0gb_us] Yeah, I guess you're right. Too bad. I'll have to remain a VirtualBox exclusive feature for now then. ☺
12:51 celeron55 it would be interesting to have a switch in every computer that would completely freeze the CPU
12:51 celeron55 actually
12:51 celeron55 well yeah, there is one; it's called suspend
12:51 [0gb_us] True, but it leaves the whole computer unusable.
12:54 john_minetest If it is so important to you to have a function like this in an OS, make your own OS ;)
12:54 proller celeron55, yout opinion? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/659
12:54 proller your
12:55 meldrian joined #minetest
12:55 celeron55 [0gb_us]: you actually can suspend a program in unix-like OSes using SIGSTOP and resume with SIGCONT
12:55 celeron55 kill -19 <pid> and kill -18 <pid>
12:55 celeron55 but you can't save it to disk or anything; it'll get deleted if you shut down the system
12:56 [0gb_us] Making an operating system would be pointless, as I said, I could develop the feature for an existing operating system. But as celeron55 said, there's a reason the feature doesn't already exist.
12:56 celeron55 and yes, that will work on absolutely any process
12:56 [0gb_us] Ah, I see.
12:56 [0gb_us] That might come in handy at times.
12:56 celeron55 on a terminal you can do that with ctrl+z and "fg"
12:57 sfan5[Mac] thats a bash feature, isn't it?
12:57 [0gb_us] SO if that is possible, I don't see why saving it to disc wouldn't be.
12:57 [0gb_us] *So
12:57 [0gb_us] Yeah, in bash.
12:58 celeron55 saving to disk would be completely different
12:58 celeron55 that command just stops the OS from giving any CPU time to the process
12:59 john_minetest maybe writing the ram to disk when stopping a program?
12:59 [0gb_us] Ah, so it's only sort of artificially frozen.
12:59 celeron55 as frozen as it needs to be
12:59 celeron55 it doesn't put it in some bag or anything
13:00 celeron55 john_minetest: yeah so how about eg. opengl contexts?
13:00 celeron55 or connections to the X server
13:00 [0gb_us] Which is helpful if you're trying to save some CPU power for a while, but not if you need to halt the process for a later tame.
13:00 [0gb_us] *time
13:01 sfan5[Mac] kill -STOP $process && dump_all_process_memory_to_file $process /tmp/dump$process
13:01 * Jordach wonders why we have X Server
13:01 sfan5[Mac] ^ someone needs to write a program for that
13:01 celeron55 Jordach: umm... what do you expect, then?
13:02 [0gb_us] Apparently, people are writing something to replace X server.
13:02 celeron55 it's a server too
13:02 [0gb_us] "Wayland", I think.
13:03 sfan5[Mac] yeah
13:03 [0gb_us] Replacing one server with another seems reasonable. If you need a server, you need a server.
13:03 celeron55 but i'm wondering what is it that Jordach is wondering
13:05 [0gb_us] I JUST cleared my log as you said that, so I hope it wasn't directed to me.
13:05 MinetestBot joined #minetest
13:06 MinetestBot hey guys!
13:06 [0gb_us] Are you actually a robot?
13:07 sfan5[Mac] MinetestBot is a bot
13:07 [0gb_us] A bot that says hello. Misleading.
13:07 Jordach celeron55, its the big problem; why is it needed?
13:08 Jordach every time i type this in #buildandshoot @quakenet i get this
13:08 Jordach <Jordach> !jordach
13:08 Jordach <Atlan> He's sexy
13:08 [0gb_us] I think it does the graphical interface, so you don;t need it if you want only text.
13:09 john_minetest Is it possible to execute "kill -STOP $process && dump_all_process_memory_to_file $process /tmp/dump$process" with a button like the close button on the window? Like |minimize|resize|freeze|close|?
13:09 sfan5[Mac] john_minetest: yes
13:09 sfan5[Mac] you just need to integrate it into the window manager
13:10 john_minetest The problem is maybe, that the whole ram is dumped and only the process ram is needed. And that the memory adresses are mixed up.
13:11 john_minetest And when de-freezing it the memory adresses may be filled with other programs. So the memory has to be blocked.
13:15 [0gb_us] joined #minetest
13:16 hmmmm joined #minetest
13:16 celeron55 Jordach: unix is designed to only provide the most minimal UI by itself, which is a text console
13:17 celeron55 everything else is done by software in userland
13:17 Jordach [0gb_us], why is 0gb.us refusing my browser
13:17 Jordach celeron55, got it
13:17 celeron55 and anything that gives access to multiple programs is a server
13:17 celeron55 that isn't in the kernel
13:17 Jordach (it didnt USED TO.)
13:17 [0gb_us] Browser? Maybe because there's no web server installed.
13:18 Jordach [0gb_us], i do remember a website there before though
13:18 [0gb_us] Nah, you were probably imagining things.
13:18 iqualfragile joined #minetest
13:18 Jordach there was a blog, other stuff too
13:19 [0gb_us] Ah, that. We lost that a while ago due to hard drive failure.
13:19 Jordach ;) http://web.archive.org/web/20120131144857/http://0gb.us/home/
13:19 [0gb_us] That doesn't unbreak my hard drive.
13:20 celeron55 the question is, though, why didn't you have backups of a server
13:20 celeron55 or failure-resistant storage
13:20 Jordach <Calinou> RAID hardware sucks
13:20 celeron55 RAID isn't backup
13:21 [0gb_us] I hadmost of it backed up, but not the SQL. Without that, I didn't have the heart to put the site back up.
13:21 [0gb_us] How do I make my hard drive failure resistant?
13:21 celeron55 by putting two of them in RAID-1 8)
13:22 john_minetest btw raid: http://cdn1.cdnme.se/cdn/6-2/893408/images/2010/raid-for-dummies_112331811.jpg
13:22 john_minetest I love this pic :D
13:23 [0gb_us] I'm sur I'd like it too, if I understood RAID.'
13:24 [0gb_us] The non-raid ones seem accurate.
13:25 [0gb_us] *sure
13:26 celeron55 raid-0 makes two disks into one bigger medium, raid-1 makes two disks to contain the exact same data (so if one fails, nothing is lost but you need to hurry into a shop to buy a replacement before the other fails too)
13:26 celeron55 raid >=2 are more complicated things that combine both
13:27 celeron55 on linux you can do those with software
13:27 [0gb_us] Oh, nice. So what's the point of RAID-0 then? It doesn't seem useful.
13:27 celeron55 but you can buy hardware to do it instead too for more serious usage
13:29 celeron55 [0gb_us]: well, having a bigger partition instead of two smaller ones is useful, and also it gives a 2x speed improvement as the data can be interlaced so that both can read different parts of a file at the same time
13:29 celeron55 and write speed improvement too
13:29 celeron55 raid-1 gives only the speed one
13:29 celeron55 eh
13:29 celeron55 read one*
13:30 celeron55 of course if any disk fails in raid-0, you're doomed
13:30 [0gb_us] Okay, cool. So it's mostly for computers that need a lot of power/speed.
13:30 john_minetest Especially for servers.
13:30 celeron55 unless you have a backup, which, i may repeat, raid is not
13:30 celeron55 [0gb_us]: or reliability
13:30 celeron55 my c55.me server has raid-1
13:31 Kray raidz5 8)
13:31 celeron55 it's a funny setup because it has an SSD and an old HDD, so write speed is horrible and read speed is fast - but it's pretty much unimaginable that they fail at the same time :-D
13:31 [0gb_us] Nice.
13:32 Kray raid that can house arbitrary number of disks, and can survive from five faulty disks simultaneously 8)
13:32 celeron55 SSD will fail either of a manufacturing error or old age at either very fast or after a very long time, and such an old HDD can't really fail suddenly at all, some day it'll just start behaving not-so-well
13:33 celeron55 though of course nobody recommends anything like this 8D
13:35 [0gb_us] http://files.myopera.com/Aux/albums/653316/piracy.jpg
13:36 Jordach "Stopping piracy only creates more piracy."
13:37 Jordach PilzAdam, your new beds mod has a bug
13:38 PilzAdam do you want to tell it me or do you want to wait even longer?
13:39 Jordach well. at night with simple_mobs, i try and sleep but even though I used /time 0, it doesnt recognise
13:40 PilzAdam works for me
13:41 Jordach PilzAdam, its the one with the multicoloured beds
13:41 PilzAdam survival game + simple mobs + latest beds mod + /time 0 + rightclick on the bed = sleeping
13:42 Jordach PilzAdam, not for me
13:42 Jordach i redigged the bed too
13:42 Jordach PilzAdam, the red bed doesnt work correctly
13:42 Jordach i think.
13:44 PilzAdam just tested all colors
13:44 PilzAdam everything works perfectly fine
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13:46 celeron55 [0gb_us]: that's not quite right these days, most game and music and such purchases are made digitally i think
13:46 celeron55 which is quite good for the reason presented in the image
13:46 [0gb_us] True. The last game I bought was online.
13:47 PilzAdam new win build: http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=65717#p65717
13:49 Jordach PilzAdam, is there any metadata that the bed uses?
13:50 PilzAdam dunno
13:50 PilzAdam look in the code
13:50 Jordach also: theres randomly appearing rectangular sections of shadow that appear for no reason
13:50 Jordach (luajit build where exit to menu is duff)
13:51 PilzAdam I think hmmmm has fixed it already
13:51 PilzAdam just plant a sapling to fix the shadow
13:52 q66 joined #minetest
13:54 VanessaE off to bed (way later than usual)
13:55 [0gb_us] Good night.
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14:02 Jordach ungali_mobile, join spam
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14:06 john_minetest PilzAdam: The newest win version seems to have a few vertical text bugs (maybe only on my computer?). screenshots: http://ompldr.org/vaTNydg/bug.png and http://ompldr.org/vaTNyeA/bug2.png
14:06 PilzAdam yes
14:06 PilzAdam known
14:06 markveidemanis joined #minetest
14:06 john_minetest okay
14:07 PilzAdam get Linux and compile it yourself if you want to fix it ;-)
14:09 markveidemanis joined #minetest
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14:10 john_minetest My linux pc that I am normally using is down atm. graphics problems. stupid nvidia.
14:10 john_minetest And my internet speed is too slow for a live distro.
14:11 john_minetest Lol. just found 13 live distros in my download folder. I should clean up there some day... ;)
14:16 Taoki Meh... the lighting code sure is a big mess
14:17 meldrian joined #minetest
14:17 markveidemanis How do i use Git
14:18 PilzAdam git help
14:20 ungali_mobile joined #minetest
14:20 markveidemanis Tried that
14:20 MinetestBot GIT: Jeija commited to Jeija/minetest-mod-mesecons: Merge pull request #94 from RealBadAngel/patch-1 8afc6abcd5 2013-04-15T07:19:22-07:00 http://git.io/y3x6Lg
14:20 markveidemanis How do i delete a repository
14:20 ungali_mobile in sources. list?
14:21 ungali_mobile edit /etc/apt/sources.list
14:21 ImQ009 joined #minetest
14:21 PilzAdam ungali_mobile, a git repo
14:21 ungali_mobile oh, lol
14:25 markveidemanis Is github even up?
14:25 markveidemanis It wont let me on
14:26 PilzAdam github works perfectly fine
14:26 PilzAdam I guess the error is at your side
14:29 markveidemanis http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=5582
14:29 markveidemanis So how do i delete a repository
14:30 PilzAdam please post mod requests/ideas here: http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=2434
14:31 markveidemanis I edited my existing topic
14:32 pukki joined #minetest
14:32 pukki hi all
14:33 pukki is someone here???
14:33 PilzAdam no
14:33 PilzAdam </oldjoke>
14:33 pukki hi adam
14:34 pukki i am new here at this game
14:34 john_minetest Welcome pukki :)
14:34 pukki thx
14:34 pukki i have some question
14:34 pukki are there monster ingame?
14:35 PilzAdam there are only mods that add monsters
14:35 PilzAdam they are called "mobs"
14:35 pukki and some like in minecraft??
14:36 PilzAdam no
14:36 pukki i mean are there zombies or skeletons ingame?
14:36 PilzAdam there are two big mob mods, mobf (Mob Framework) and Simple Mobs
14:43 webdesigner97 joined #minetest
14:45 Jordach http://imgur.com/gallery/KBVbj
14:45 Jordach i just found this and lol'd
14:49 john_minetest joined #minetest
14:50 PilzAdam http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=84247#p84247
14:50 PilzAdam "I dont know how to use a computer."
14:50 PilzAdam how should we help him?
14:51 TheLastProject joined #minetest
14:51 john_minetest Redirect him to microsoft tech support? ;)
14:57 sfan5[Mac] ¿o/
14:57 sfan5[Mac] fail
14:59 FreeFull joined #minetest
15:04 Jordach PilzAdam, the beds decide to work again
15:04 PilzAdam yea, I have anti-Jordach code in there so they randomly dont work if you are Jordach
15:04 * Jordach slaps PilzAdam with a anti-tampering agreement
15:09 markveidemanis Hey, can someone make me a quick mod
15:09 markveidemanis Console for chat
15:09 meldrian joined #minetest
15:09 markveidemanis external_cmd but also writes to file
15:17 sdzen joined #minetest
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15:27 markveidemanis Painting competition
15:27 markveidemanis 86.158.111.163
15:27 markveidemanis Afterwards, i will copy each of your paintings in GIMP and send them to you :D
15:29 jojoa1997|Tablet joined #minetest
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15:53 PilzAdam lol
15:53 PilzAdam Moontest isnt even in development for a month and they alread have inactive contributors
15:54 Calinou joined #minetest
15:54 * sdzen looks around
15:54 sdzen sounds like blockplanet
15:55 Calinou BlockPlanet: 2012-2012
15:55 PilzAdam R.I.P.
15:56 PilzAdam sdzen, the only difference is that someone actually has done something for blockplanet
15:56 PilzAdam Moontest just changes the textures AFAIK
15:56 Calinou like hmmmm said, we should have a "Moontests" section on the forum for these kinds of mods
15:57 * PilzAdam downloads the moontest.exe just for the lulz
15:58 PilzAdam oh, sorry, *moontest-setup.exe
15:59 Calinou tip: virustotal.com
15:59 Calinou tip: tips are useful, you should read them more often
15:59 PilzAdam wtf!?!
15:59 PilzAdam they want a Name, Organisation, Serialnumber
16:01 PilzAdam lol
16:01 PilzAdam I cant continue the "Installation" because of the serial number
16:01 sdzen hmmm
16:01 sdzen obviously some top secret changes were made
16:02 PilzAdam does LGPL allow forks being distributed without source?
16:03 Exio [12:59:25] <Calinou> tip: tips are useful, you should read them more often
16:03 Exio redeclipse-tips
16:07 telek PilzAdam: LGPL Allows forks that use the code as a dynamic link library to be used without the 'front end' code being open source
16:09 telek The library itself would still need to be, and object files allowing for the frontend code to be relinked to a replacement version of the LGPL'd code would be required for static linking (this is why LGPL doesn't allow usage on console apps without purchasing a 'commercial' license, if possible from the library creator)
16:12 telek So if there was an LGPL'd libminetest.so/dll you could make a proprietary frontend client/server utilizing it, but as it's currently built (each client/server compiled each object file individually into itself) you would fall under the terms of the LGPL.
16:18 PilzAdam thx
16:19 cisoun joined #minetest
16:21 john_minetest Calinou: I bet virustotal.com scans the file and if it is a virus it resells it to crackers.
16:21 john_minetest Good way to make money. And noone will sue you for copyright infringement ^^
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16:30 Zeg9 What do everyone think about that: https://github.com/minetest/common/pull/31
16:31 khonkhortisan I think it looks less scratched
16:34 RealBadAngel ha, it started to work :) http://i.imgur.com/gszuUqK.png
16:34 RealBadAngel time to fill it with contens :)
16:34 PilzAdam minimalistic GUI FTW!
16:35 RealBadAngel i will try to keep game gui style
16:38 * Calinou facepalms
16:38 Calinou why don't you implement an "advanced settings" menu in minetest's menu?
16:39 RealBadAngel i want gui for ALL the settings aviable
16:39 RealBadAngel im getting sick of searching .example and copying settings
16:40 Calinou yes
16:40 Calinou use an "advanced settings" menu, this is how xonotic works
16:41 RealBadAngel you know how many settings there are out there?
16:41 PilzAdam RealBadAngel, what you want is impossible
16:41 RealBadAngel easily possible
16:41 PilzAdam the engine doesnt know about all possible settings
16:41 Calinou RealBadAngel: xonotic has TWO THOUSAND settings
16:42 RealBadAngel with folks keep adding new settings in such way for example:
16:42 Calinou wait, more
16:42 Calinou 280 Commands, 4044 cvar(s)
16:42 RealBadAngel #group,setting_name,description,tooltip,type,default_value
16:42 RealBadAngel "Display properties",wanted_fps, "Set FPS cap", "If FPS would go higher than this, limit it by sleeping/n (to not waste CPU power for no benefit","int",60
16:43 PilzAdam where do you want to add these?
16:43 RealBadAngel something like .example file
16:43 Calinou https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/82342922/temp/xonotic20130415184310-00.jpg
16:43 RealBadAngel file that would contain settings definitions
16:44 RealBadAngel utility will just read the file and create valid config
16:44 Calinou (white means the setting is modified)
16:44 RealBadAngel and of course allow easily change the settings
16:44 PilzAdam please dont write the config as the current key change menu
16:45 RealBadAngel utility wont add itself nothing
16:45 PilzAdam otherwise minetest.conf would contain all settings default after first startup
16:45 Calinou this is how you do an "advanced" settings menu, RealBadAngel :P
16:45 Calinou not with a specific "XWindows" program
16:45 PilzAdam maybe change the Settings class so it doesnt write the default value
16:45 RealBadAngel this is not specific program
16:45 RealBadAngel it compiles together with mt
16:45 sfan5[Mac] joined #minetest
16:45 RealBadAngel and is 3rd executable in /bin folder
16:46 Calinou yes
16:46 Calinou specific program
16:46 Calinou complicates stuff and makes windows compatibility questionable
16:46 Calinou and debian packagers are going to whine
16:46 RealBadAngel ?
16:46 PilzAdam what? an extra program for settings?
16:46 TheLastProject joined #minetest
16:46 RealBadAngel have you read what i wrote?
16:46 Calinou yes
16:46 RealBadAngel it is not specific
16:46 Calinou you're using an extra program for settings
16:47 Calinou while this is not a bad thing, it will not get into upstream
16:47 Calinou (please don't compare this to the mapper)
16:47 RealBadAngel if folks will not like it, it will remain addition
16:47 RealBadAngel their lost
16:47 Calinou RealBadAngel: is it much more complicated to put it in the main game?
16:47 Calinou you know how to use irrlicht already
16:48 RealBadAngel ofc. its an irrlicht app
16:48 RealBadAngel but i dont want to shit main menu with hundreds of settings
16:48 Calinou use an "Advanced Settings" button.
16:49 Calinou then you can put all your settings there
16:49 RealBadAngel and put there those hundreds?
16:49 RealBadAngel sorry, but no
16:49 Calinou yes, using a scrolling menu
16:49 Calinou see the screenshot?
16:49 RealBadAngel yes
16:49 Calinou that system is perfectly usable for 4000 cvars, you can search for variable names
16:50 RealBadAngel and looks like registry editor
16:50 PilzAdam RealBadAngel, creating an extra program for the settings is nonsense
16:50 Calinou lol
16:50 RealBadAngel using the ingame system is pain in the ass
16:50 RealBadAngel look how many changes adding sound volume control needed
16:50 jordan4ibanez joined #minetest
16:50 RealBadAngel ridicously insane amount of code
16:51 PilzAdam then add a system to the main menu that isnt PITA
16:51 RealBadAngel ingame menu system is overcomplicated
16:51 PilzAdam creating a new program for it is just stupid workaround
16:52 RealBadAngel maybe if i will pop up with better menu system we will merge it
16:52 RealBadAngel atm i wont be even tryin to fit ingame one
16:52 RealBadAngel sound volume was enough for me
16:53 RealBadAngel i want to write one from scratch and separate app is the best place for it
16:53 PilzAdam then rework the whole main menu
16:53 PilzAdam but dont create a new program for it
16:54 PilzAdam thats just the worst thing you can do
16:54 RealBadAngel mergin it into game would be just copy paste
16:54 RealBadAngel im using very same libraries
16:55 PilzAdam why do you start wrong to copy and paste it into the right place later?
16:55 RealBadAngel because im doing it from scratch
16:55 RealBadAngel not replacing, fixin nor changing
16:56 PilzAdam you can also do the current main menu from scratch
16:56 PilzAdam then its in the right place
16:56 RealBadAngel not really, its a too big mess
16:57 PilzAdam it will be the same mess if you merge the extra program later
16:57 PilzAdam or even worse
16:57 RealBadAngel not really, if it comes to merging, old stuff should be just deleted
16:58 PilzAdam then you can also delete it a the beginning and start from scratch
16:58 markveidemanis I need curtains
16:58 markveidemanis Transparent but not let light through
16:58 RealBadAngel easier for me to write without need to clean everything around first
16:59 RealBadAngel this way im sure im having there only really necesary code
17:01 RealBadAngel i want to make it using classes, nested objects, without any need to manually position things on screen
17:01 RealBadAngel then just create groups of interactive objects with their callbacks
17:02 Zeg9 markveidemanis, same here. But this simply is not possible because transparent = let the light through
17:02 RealBadAngel so switching from tab to tab, or other menu will be just switchin the current group
17:02 markveidemanis i tried it once
17:02 markveidemanis Dark, but transparent
17:04 RealBadAngel what we do have now, its extremally hard to change. all is added manually, with fixed coordinates, weird calculations for it all the time
17:05 RealBadAngel and spreaded over many files
17:06 RealBadAngel https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/4d73d99ebc848e2065b38672e882f994a1d561f4
17:07 RealBadAngel look how complicated was adding sound volume controls
17:13 RealBadAngel i want the system to be modular with minimal settings required
17:14 RealBadAngel simple as adding child to the parent with one call
17:14 RealBadAngel not fuckin 268 lines in 7 files for one small window with just one slider
17:15 khonkhortisan I think removestone should have a recipe where you keep the ingredients.
17:17 Jeija joined #minetest
17:21 jordan4ibanez realbadangel how did you handle sounds for the nodes which loop?
17:22 aheinecke joined #minetest
17:22 telek Oh speaking of sound nodes.
17:22 Taoki Ugh. Light is stored in param1 for each node? Thought it's calculated in realtime
17:22 Taoki Makes a problem for adding colored lights
17:22 Calinou why?
17:22 Calinou you can calculate three values?
17:22 Calinou triple the amount of bits?
17:22 Taoki Calinou: How do you separate 3 values from one though?
17:23 Calinou bits?
17:23 telek The fire nodes need some work done on them, with a large scale fire going on it the audio was cutting out intermittently because (I assume) each fire node was individually emitting the crackling noise.
17:23 Taoki That would work. But I don't get how bits there are stoed
17:23 Taoki *stored
17:23 Calinou you'd need 3× more bits though
17:24 Taoki Can't even tell how exactly bits are being stored there
17:25 jordan4ibanez After 4 hours I figured it out huzzah
17:25 Taoki That and the overall lighting code is a huge mess. It's like 10 times larger than I think it could have been
17:26 Taoki I'll surely need help on this one. But I can post what I already found out
17:26 Taoki Since I got the first part figured out in my mind
17:27 Taoki Yeah, did a grep through the code. param1 is set or read in like a billion places. I've no idea how on earth we're gonna adapt that to use 3 values
17:31 Taoki Think I'm gonna post what I could figure out on the forum... hopefully someone else wants this and cares to help
17:32 PilzAdam RealBadAngel, dont compare adding a setting to ingame menu with adding a setting to the main menu
17:32 PilzAdam these things are complelty different
17:32 PilzAdam if you just add a new tab to the main menu then you can make it that it doesnt need so much code for one setting
17:37 markveidemanis Im running minimal...
17:37 markveidemanis Whoops sorry wrong channel
17:38 RealBadAngel PilzAdam, current system is way to complicated to be easily changeable
17:38 PilzAdam if you add a new tab then you create your own system
17:38 PilzAdam why are you always talking about "current system"?
17:38 PilzAdam you have to create the system first
17:38 RealBadAngel all the menus
17:38 RealBadAngel yes, thats what i plan to do
17:39 RealBadAngel make clean, easy to use modular menu system
17:39 RealBadAngel with singleliners to add new menu object
17:42 RealBadAngel register any menu entry shall consist only of parent to add to, type and handler for action
17:43 monkeycoder joined #minetest
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17:44 RealBadAngel code shall take care of positionin it properly and call handler when needed
17:44 jordan4ibanez can we do this in lua?
17:45 RealBadAngel impossible
17:45 jordan4ibanez I SAY NEIGH
17:45 monkeycoder joined #minetest
17:45 NakedFury this changs have to be source code
17:46 jordan4ibanez hey jeija can you make it so command blocks can set player's physics?
17:46 RealBadAngel change looks drastic, but i really want it to be simple as lego blocks
17:47 RealBadAngel as extremally easy to use
17:48 cosarara97 joined #minetest
17:48 RealBadAngel i wrote such menu system long time ago from scratch
17:49 RealBadAngel in times there were DOS there and VESA video drivers
17:50 RealBadAngel so i know how to do it properly i think
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17:53 khonkhortisan Could not open file of texture: default_apple.png^[forcesingle
17:55 RealBadAngel what does forcesingle do?
17:56 PilzAdam forces the texture to not be in the texture atlas
17:56 PilzAdam basically creates a copy of the texture
17:56 khonkhortisan it makes it not find a file by that name
17:57 RealBadAngel hmmm, we are not using atlas anymore?
17:57 RealBadAngel it is disabled by default and obsolete
17:58 RealBadAngel only remains of the atlas are the each tile has its own "atlas"
17:58 khonkhortisan What would cause minetest to generate a dummy image for my texture other than it not existing or having the wrong name?
17:59 RealBadAngel with atlas disabled it just means texture is not found
18:00 khonkhortisan This error doesn't make sense ERROR[main]: generate_image(): Creating a dummy image for "curtain_papyrus.png"
18:00 khonkhortisan I have curtain/depends.txt, curtain/init.lua, curtain/textures/curtain_papyrus.png
18:00 khonkhortisan oops! curtain_papyus.png! Nevermind.
18:00 RealBadAngel can you upload zipped mod somwhere?
18:01 RealBadAngel hhahaha
18:01 RealBadAngel and you blamed poor, dead already atlas for it ;)
18:01 RealBadAngel shame on you :)
18:03 RealBadAngel but on the other hand talkin bout weird problems with others really help
18:03 RealBadAngel either you or some1 else will catch stupid error you have just couldnt see for hours
18:05 khonkhortisan Once I wrote cect( instead of rect( and I couldn't see it because my font was small enough that the squiggley red underline covered the bottom of the c
18:05 RealBadAngel hehe
18:07 sfan5 \
18:07 markveidemanis Khonk, join server again, i added your paintings to the collection
18:07 markveidemanis Unfortunately the map is screwed
18:08 Zeg9 Let me show that gallery
18:08 Zeg9 Let me see* that gallery
18:08 khonkhortisan You could probably do better :)
18:11 RealBadAngel btw, got a thought
18:11 jojoa1997|Tablet joined #minetest
18:11 RealBadAngel what if we had lua aviable before game starts?
18:12 RealBadAngel and write menus in lua?
18:12 Jordach PilzAdam, sfan5: i think http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=84297#p84297
18:12 Jordach warn him first, then ban if repeated
18:21 sfan5 Jordach: ummm
18:21 Jordach sfan5, i could crack it with brutality, but im lazy
18:21 * Jordach considers this might be a trojian
18:22 Taoki If anyone else is interested in colored lights: forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=84299
18:22 Taoki erm, http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=84299
18:22 sfan5 didn't someone already code colored lights?
18:23 khonkhortisan We need colored lights - if we don't already have them that is
18:23 Taoki sfan5: Long ago and the code got lost (were it even compatible at this day)
18:23 Taoki If someone could still find it though, it could be useful inspiration
18:23 Taoki khonkhortisan: We do and we don't
18:24 PilzAdam sfan5, spam: http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=84295#p84295
18:24 khonkhortisan They could be nice about it and mark it as spam before they start
18:25 cisoun joined #minetest
18:26 sfan5 PilzAdam: banned
18:26 Zeg9 RealBadAngel, that would be nice, but how to design this, because all mods are server-side...
18:26 Jeija left #minetest
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18:30 RealBadAngel zeg9, there was already client side lua proof of concept by jeija
18:31 jordan4ibanez who was banned? :D
18:31 Zeg9 Yeah, but what could this be used too ? ... thinking about it, yeah, it would be a great idea, so people can customize their menu and stuff, but, wouldn't it be a lot of work for small results ? Or maybe I missed something...
18:38 * Zeg9 is now leaving, bye all.
18:46 PilzAdam joined #minetest
18:51 sfan5 Jordach: valid serial hashes (i think) for moontest setup: http://pastie.org/7589405
18:53 Jordach sfan5, cracked
18:53 Calinou lol, you guys have nothing better to do than crack an user with a pony avatar's program
18:53 Calinou :3
18:53 Calinou also, I got cancer.
18:54 Jordach sfan5, http://i.imgur.com/CmNAnlh.png
18:54 Jordach highlight of my day
18:55 PilzAdam Jordach, post that on the moontest thread
18:55 PilzAdam sfan5, VM crashed ^
18:56 Calinou is this guy trying to spread a virus? that kind of installer looks stupid :P
18:56 Calinou zero log of actions
18:56 STHGOM joined #minetest
18:57 PilzAdam bye
18:57 Jordach http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=84313#p84313
19:00 jordan4ibanez zoilt is a troll either that or he/she is very stupid
19:01 Calinou I vote for the latter
19:05 jordan4ibanez I vote for stairs
19:06 * Jordach still waits until we start seeing R34 of Minetest
19:06 Calinou won't happen for a while
19:06 jordan4ibanez an r34 skyline??
19:06 * Jordach heads off to blender
19:06 Calinou jordan4ibanez, stairs? northern lights!
19:06 Calinou Jordach, first, you have to register a DA account
19:06 Calinou else you can't get inspiration
19:06 Calinou *cough**cough*
19:07 jordan4ibanez OH GOD
19:07 Jordach Calinou, lolz
19:07 Jordach Calinou, i have one, but under this nick
19:07 Jordach not under*
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19:07 khonkhortisan I can't seem to reregister :default:anything
19:07 sfan5 Calinou: use IDA
19:08 Calinou IDA?
19:08 Calinou Jordach, who uses same names for DA and other accounts?
19:08 sfan5 Calinou: https://www.hex-rays.com/products/ida/index.shtml
19:08 Calinou not even barack obama would do that!
19:08 Calinou lol, sfan5
19:08 khonkhortisan okay, so I can reregister :default:nyancat but not :default:papyrus or :default:wood.
19:08 Calinou sfan5, DA means deviantart :P
19:09 Calinou you know why they have so much accounts :P
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19:11 jordan4ibanez Maybe we should make minetest like deviantart
19:11 jordan4ibanez we would get more users
19:11 mauvebic more users? we need more modders :P the pace of new mods seems to be slowing
19:13 proller joined #minetest
19:13 STHGOM modding is the point of minetest! (aside from the fact its free...)
19:13 Exio is moontest a joke or real
19:13 mauvebic im also seeing alot of things linger in /general, dunno if its because theyre not finished, or theyve been abandoned, or if simply no one's looking through them to move them
19:14 STHGOM at minetest.net?
19:14 mauvebic forums
19:14 Calinou are you talking about "ore-G"? 8D
19:15 Calinou if mods are ripoffs, "identical mods", lack a license, or their topic is very poorly written, they won't be moved
19:15 Jordach that's what we should call this game
19:15 mauvebic well naw just a bunch of mods i noticed have been there for a month +
19:15 jojoa1997|Tablet joined #minetest
19:15 khonkhortisan joined #minetest
19:15 mauvebic since when do ripoffs not make it through? lol thats news to me
19:16 mauvebic shit man i remember the days where shit got ripped off within hours of posting lol
19:17 jojoa1997|Tablet how do i load a blender file for a mob and does it have to be a special format
19:17 mauvebic tho these days i worry less about ripoffs and more about being harangued over format lol
19:18 khonkhortisan I have a bone to pick with Calinou.
19:19 mauvebic though if they have no chance of making out of general, it should be stated in the thread, so the OP might take a second look at what they can do differently
19:19 Exio jojoa1997|Tablet: you need blender for opening blender files
19:19 Calinou khonkhortisan, huh
19:20 khonkhortisan You redefine papyrus and add sunlight_propagates = true. I redefine papyrus and add an on_punch function. Because your mod redefines the whole node and is run after my mod, your mod wins.
19:21 STHGOM joined #minetest
19:21 jojoa1997|Tablet im downloading but i mean how do i load blender files into minetest
19:21 mauvebic <khonkhortisan> use minetest.after, problem solved
19:22 khonkhortisan There should be a standard way to redefine part of a node without redefining all of it.
19:22 mauvebic you can even get calinou's def from registered_nodes and add whats missing to it
19:22 mauvebic unfortunately making changes to registered_nodes wont do anything
19:24 Calinou khonkhortisan, use the zzz trick, start your mod name with a "zzz" or something like that :P
19:25 Calinou ("zz" should be enough in 99% of cases)
19:25 khonkhortisan I do that for my textureresizer - but if I did it for this, then I would override your mod.
19:25 Jordach Calinou, is that the boob size you want ?
19:25 Calinou yeah, that too
19:25 mauvebic you can get cheap knockers off the ukrainian internet
19:25 Calinou khonkhortisan, then make sure you use sunlight_propagates and it's fine
19:25 Calinou the default papyrus blocks light, looks ugly
19:25 khonkhortisan We're both only changing one of the variable of the node, that should be compatible. I'll see if I can make a generic function for node redefinition.
19:26 Exio and add it to builtin?
19:26 Jordach i just got a captcha
19:26 mauvebic not difficult, get the nodedef from registered, add your fields to the table and youre done
19:26 Jordach that says boobs
19:26 khonkhortisan I don't know where something like that would go
19:26 khonkhortisan mauvebic, and make every other mod do the same
19:27 mauvebic well unless a great deal of other people need the function, it should go in your mod's helper functions
19:27 khonkhortisan When two mods conflict on a node definition, both of them would need the function.
19:28 mauvebic i have like a million helpers lol though theyve recently added one of them : the nodebox to selection box copy
19:29 mauvebic which was a no brainer lol
19:31 mauvebic is MirceaKitsune around? interested in getting this colored lighting thing working
19:31 Jordach Taoki, ^
19:31 Taoki mauvebic: Yep
19:31 mauvebic thats you?
19:31 Exio poor Taoki :P
19:31 Taoki It is. And why poor?
19:32 Exio a bad joke, because he didn't know your irc nick :P
19:32 * Taoki checks my wallet ;)
19:32 RealBadAngel lol
19:32 mauvebic well, ill never understand why people use different names lol
19:32 Taoki Yeah, pretty poor actualkly :P
19:32 RealBadAngel poor because she wants to do thing that was already done and just DELETED
19:32 Taoki true that
19:32 mauvebic who deleted it?
19:33 mauvebic and why? and why did jacobf remove his code and videos on it?
19:33 RealBadAngel there was branch with coloured lights already
19:33 RealBadAngel dunno
19:33 Calinou 404 now :P
19:33 mauvebic anyone still have a copy?
19:33 RealBadAngel that could be of help
19:33 RealBadAngel i saw vid once, it was great
19:34 mauvebic it was a while ago, and i noticed things that were turned down a year ago suddenly become good ideas\
19:34 RealBadAngel maybe we shall make post in forums, maybe some1 still have it
19:34 mauvebic though by then the developer has already quit in frustration
19:36 mauvebic ive found a few forum posts on irrlicht forums regarding colored and ambient lighting, though if we can avoid doing it from scratch..
19:36 Calinou RealBadAngel, flblindman would have it then
19:36 Calinou </sarcasm>
19:36 Jordach Calinou, hehe
19:36 mauvebic where are light sources handled in the source?
19:36 jordan4ibanez THIS should be the default minetest texture pack http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=73916#p73916
19:36 jordan4ibanez wow
19:37 Calinou where are light sources handled in the source of the source engine, I will only trust this info from a verifiable source?
19:37 mauvebic pidgeon dropping  + stick + apple = candied apple?
19:37 RealBadAngel this texture pack is really nice
19:38 Jordach Calinou, is it FDL
19:38 Jordach GNU FDL*
19:38 Calinou no, BY-ND
19:38 Calinou mauvebic, lol
19:38 Calinou RealBadAngel, pickaxe was made from minecraft though
19:38 Calinou so no default :3
19:39 jordan4ibanez Our game was made from minecraft who the fuck cares
19:40 mauvebic im guessing this aint it: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/light.h
19:40 Calinou relevant to texture packs, someone posted a few picks of MCE on their world: http://imageshack.us/a/img822/1108/minetestopengl430fps51.jpg
19:40 Calinou remembers me of building a skyscraper made of stone in january 2011, on my server, in minecraft :P
19:41 Calinou I used that pack, it had a more "realistic" feel back then (since september 2011 or so, it's now "vanilla HD" and no longer "realistic")
19:41 sfan5 my computer can hash one char with sha1 in 0.00000000922480408026 seconds
19:41 Calinou how do you know?
19:41 Exio how do you get those cute-numbers? hashing 1000000000000 numbers and checking how many ns it takes?
19:41 Exio (+ average?)
19:42 RealBadAngel fuuu, rails are really ugly in this pack
19:42 Calinou no u
19:42 mauvebic is light colour defined from the source, or does that go through shaders?
19:43 Calinou not sure if shaders even affect lighting, ask celeron55 (ping!)
19:44 mauvebic light.cpp/h seems to be responsible for day/night stuff if i understood correctly
19:44 sfan5 mauvebic: light also goes through shaders
19:44 RealBadAngel chests are awesome tho
19:44 khonkhortisan the "right" way to redefine nodes: http://pastebin.com/jmi2t73A
19:44 mauvebic so if i wanted to tweak the colors, where do i need to look?
19:45 khonkhortisan Now how would I get something like this to be used by everything?
19:45 jordan4ibanez Okay, does someone want to test the cauldron now?
19:45 RealBadAngel furnaces suck big time
19:45 RealBadAngel i vote for chests being merged
19:46 vals_ joined #minetest
19:46 khonkhortisan In what file would a minetest.override_node function go?
19:47 mauvebic can gedit do a multi-file text search? lol
19:47 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/ZyACDbN.png
19:47 RealBadAngel i really like it
19:49 sfan5 Calinou, Exio ,jordan4ibanez: https://gist.github.com/sfan5/5390795
19:50 Exio k, python
19:50 Calinou ^
19:50 mauvebic ugh, found selection box colour lol
19:51 Calinou selection box colour should be per-node setting, not client-side
19:51 Calinou would probably be more useful
19:51 mauvebic dont care about selection box colour, looking for light color for nodes lol
19:51 Calinou if node requires pick to be mined, make box dark red? if right click is useful on it, blue?
19:51 Exio Calinou: that seems cool
19:52 jordan4ibanez what does that do sfan5?
19:52 sfan5 jordan4ibanez: read description
19:52 Calinou it deletes your graphic drivers and restarts
19:52 Exio IndentationError: unexpected indent
19:53 Exio good python, forcing me to test indented code
19:53 Josh__ joined #minetest
19:53 sfan5 Exio: python version?
19:53 Josh__ Hi
19:53 Exio 2.6.6
19:53 sfan5 the code runs fine for me
19:53 sfan5 hmm
19:53 sfan5 i have 2.7.3
19:53 Exio testing code in the repl :P
19:53 sfan5 hi Josh__
19:53 Josh__ My minetest game won't connect to any servers
19:53 Josh__ Internet's functional, But the darned thing wont work
19:54 Josh__ Any idea why this may be occurring? This has happened many times
19:54 Josh__ randomly
19:55 sfan5 md5 is the fastest with avg per char: 0.00000000916245032329948668215522744693452006359279948810581117868423461914062500
19:55 mauvebic too many tabs lol be back when im done searching
19:55 Josh__ anyone want to help?
19:56 Josh__ Would really appreciate.
19:56 Exio sfan5: http://dpaste.com/1059571/
19:56 Josh__ .....
19:56 Calinou Josh__, check your firewall?
19:57 Calinou make sure you allow port 30000, or just disable it
19:57 Josh__ Calinou: It works normally
19:57 sfan5 Exio: i guess your python is not good enough, do you have 64 bit?
19:57 Exio yep
19:57 sfan5 hm
19:57 sfan5 the first error is exprected because:
19:57 sfan5 hashlib.algorithms
19:57 sfan5 A tuple providing the names of the hash algorithms guaranteed to be supported by this module.
19:57 sfan5 New in version 2.7.
19:57 Josh__ Calinou: its just certain times it refuses to budge
19:57 sfan5 Exio: you should update your python
19:57 sfan5 just build from source
19:58 Exio sfan5: nah
19:58 mauvebic is this it? c = MapBlock_LightColor(255, 0xffff, decode_light(f.light_source));
19:58 mauvebic in itemdef.cpp
19:59 rsiska joined #minetest
19:59 Exio sfan5: what cpu do you have, btw?
20:00 sfan5 model name: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2410M CPU @ 2.30GHz
20:00 sfan5 cache size: 3072 KB
20:00 sfan5 flags: fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe syscall nx rdtscp lm constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts rep_good nopl xtopology nonstop_tsc aperfmperf pni pclmulqdq dtes64 monitor ds_cpl vmx est tm2 ssse3 cx16 xtpr pdcm pcid sse4_1 sse4_2 x2apic popcnt tsc_deadline_timer aes xsave avx lahf_lm ida arat epb xsaveopt pln pts dtherm tpr_shadow vnmi flexpriority ept vpid
20:00 Exio http://dpaste.com/1059576/
20:00 Exio here ^
20:00 sfan5 amd...
20:00 Exio underclocked :P
20:00 Exio wut?
20:01 Josh__ ?
20:01 Josh__ Calinou: ?
20:01 mauvebic if 0xffff is white, is red 0xff00 ?
20:02 Taoki mauvebic: Not sure what 0x is. ffffff is white and ff0000 is red
20:03 mauvebic 0x means hex value
20:03 mauvebic that much i do know at least lol
20:03 Taoki Yeah, I just don't know which :P
20:03 mauvebic i think i found where to change light colour, question is, where we would store the value?
20:04 Taoki mauvebic: In param1. It will just need to have 3 more bits
20:04 mauvebic something like, nodedef.light_source, and nodedef.light_colour?
20:04 Taoki Sure, as far as the parameter is concerned
20:04 Taoki That's how I wanted to do it too
20:04 Exio you should use color (as it is used in other places)
20:04 Taoki But for the mapgen, param1 will need 3 or 4 bits
20:04 mauvebic not sure how easy tweaking param1 would be, but adding a def field would probaly be easier?
20:05 mauvebic from what i understand, param1 is the *amount* of light?
20:05 mauvebic since fixlight restores a param1 to its max (fully lit)
20:06 Exio sfan5: what's up with AMD? :P
20:06 Taoki mauvebic: Yeah, because amount is all that's used currently. If we add color it would need to hold amount and color too
20:06 mauvebic thats why i think nodedef.light_colour might be more practical/less confusing
20:07 mauvebic if we dont wanna break people's implementation of fixlight, not to mention everything else that uses param1
20:07 Exio i don't know how fast would that be
20:07 sfan5 Exio: nothing, i though of some comment about amd that was in jordan4ibanez's signature
20:08 Taoki mauvebic: Nothing else uses param1 iirc. Only param2 is used for other things
20:08 Taoki param2 is for facedir and wallmounted usually, or flowing liquid. param1 is for lighting stuff
20:09 mauvebic yeah but you only have one value for each
20:09 mauvebic otherwise you might as well have param3 for colour
20:09 Taoki Yah, that's why bits are needed
20:09 sfan5 good night
20:09 STHGOM tata mates!
20:09 Taoki night
20:10 Taoki mauvebic: a param3 wouldn't work either without bits, since you'd need to store each color channel
20:10 Taoki You'd need a param3, param4, and param5, which would be wrong
20:11 Calinou on sky hardcore I found bones of MirceaKitsune :O
20:11 khonkhortisan What is a pull request called when I don't know where to put the code? An inclusion request?
20:11 Taoki On the bright side, we don't necessarily need to store each color as a value between 0 and 255 or a real number between 0 and 1. We could add just another range between 0 and 15
20:11 Taoki Calinou: Proballby from when I fell there and died :P
20:11 Calinou a request to have your stuff in the default game.
20:11 Calinou Taoki, yeah
20:11 mauvebic right now is compiling with red light instead of white
20:11 Calinou 0-15 range is accurate enough, yea
20:12 Taoki For each channel of course. Same as t's done for intensity
20:12 jordan4ibanez This is the best thing I've ever seen http://imgur.com/gallery/V3OSsDu
20:12 Taoki This would actually fit param1 like a glove if expanded by a power of 2, if we think about it. Currently it stores a value between 0 and 15, which means 16 bits. Make it 64 bits and it will fit 4 values of 16; Intensity, red, green, blue
20:13 mauvebic how easy can you/we/anyone do that?
20:13 Calinou compiling with red light?
20:13 * Calinou puts his tac goggles
20:13 Taoki I'm very bad at bits, no idea
20:13 Taoki It's all about seeing where and how param1 is used and changing it there
20:14 Calinou we currently have 4 bits for light: 4^2 = 16 light levels, one of them is reserved for sunlight apparently
20:14 khonkhortisan https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/661
20:14 Calinou 12 bits, 4 for each color: 2^12: 4096 (without a calculator, yey)
20:14 Taoki yeah. Sounds like we'd need 16 bits
20:14 Calinou why 16?
20:14 Calinou we need 16 light levels per color
20:14 Taoki Oh yes, 12
20:14 Calinou not that weird 5+6+5 combination 3dfx invented :P
20:15 Taoki Or... hmmmm. You said 4 bits for storing a 0 - 15 value. To store 3 more such values, wouldn't you need 4 + 4 + 4 + 4?
20:15 Taoki Ah, you mean if we don't keep intensity separately
20:16 Calinou no need for separate intensity
20:16 Taoki Yes, in that case only 12 and 3 values are stored. If that's still compatible enough
20:16 Taoki True. Yes in that case, 12 bits
20:16 Calinou we can afford making light calculation 3× more expensive, 4×, less :P
20:16 iqualfragile1 joined #minetest
20:16 Taoki Indeed
20:17 * Calinou is CPU limited in minetest at 800FPS or so (without shaders), 1000FPS without hyperthreading
20:17 Taoki mauvebic: So yeah, param1 needs to go from 4 bits to 12 bits. Someone who knows maths needs to do that though
20:17 Calinou (guess-work: CPU usage at 100% on one core)
20:17 Taoki Calinou: 800 FPS? I rarely ever get 100 :(
20:17 Calinou with misa's pack, shaders, high view distance and outdoors, about 120 to 240, depends
20:17 mauvebic what would a param1 value look like that in such case?
20:17 Calinou I limit to 65 to reduce power usage and noise
20:18 Calinou Taoki, intel rocks at monothread compared to AMD :P
20:18 Taoki mauvebic: That I don't know... more complex maths
20:18 Taoki Yeah, I use Intel processors. But AMD / ATI video cards
20:19 Calinou AMD is usually better when you throw lots of shaders at them, especially true for the HD7000s
20:20 Taoki mauvebic: My experience with bits is limited, but I used them once. Basically you use a single value to store multiple sets of values. By multiplying each value with a power of 2 or something, which allows the reading code to de-compress the bits and notice what each value is
20:20 Taoki So in an integer that ranges between 1 and 256, you could compress a certain amount of individual values.
20:21 Taoki But I totally forgot the formula. It's a common practice in programming though so maybe someone else can help
20:21 Calinou anyway, it's a nice idea to bring this colored light discussion back, it adds a lot of potential to the game, and finally another minetest-exclusive feature!
20:21 Taoki Indeed. It's a very needed feature, and will allow for beautiful things :)
20:22 Exio magenta lights!
20:22 * Exio wants those
20:22 mauvebic changing the hex value didn't seem to do anything :/
20:22 mauvebic c = MapBlock_LightColor(255, 0xff00, decode_light(f.light_source));
20:23 Exio $ grep 'MapBlock_LightColor' * | wc -l
20:23 Exio 17
20:24 Exio what of them did you modify?
20:24 mauvebic 0xffff -> 0xff00
20:24 Exio i mean, what file/line
20:24 mauvebic light is still white
20:24 mauvebic itemdef.cpp
20:25 jordan4ibanez Someone try this http://ubuntuone.com/5SegH5aid4Z2otm5UXcfJg
20:25 Exio mauvebic: check mapblock_mesh.h:166
20:25 khonkhortisan that's not a modpack
20:26 shadowjay1 joined #minetest
20:26 jordan4ibanez you throw in coal lumps for negative effect, and papyrus for positive, it needs lava underneath it, and you craft it like a cauldron in minecraft, only with steelblocks, you can check the level of the cauldron by rightclicking it with the malevolent decipher
20:27 Taoki mauvebic: When shaders are enabled, you need to edit the color in the shader file to match. When not, you need to edit a function in the code which already colorizes light (currently only used for making moon light blue)
20:28 Calinou pop corn: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&amp;px=MTM1MjU
20:28 Calinou people expect too much with ARM :3
20:28 Taoki "When shaders are disabled, that's done in mapblock_mesh line 337 (static void finalColorBlend). When shaders are enabled, it's in test_shader_1 file opengl_vertex.glsl."
20:28 mauvebic ill try loading w/o shaders
20:28 mauvebic shaders off, stll got this blueish tint, light is still white
20:28 Taoki mauvebic: It needs to be adapted separartely in both. See my message above
20:29 Exio test_shader_2 is used for liquid (water :P)
20:29 Taoki You need to apply the color in those functions I mentioned, otherwise color is overriden or applied incorrectly
20:29 pib1978 joined #minetest
20:29 mauvebic where is shader file?
20:29 Calinou Taoki, also, colored light will be hard to implement, because you need to implement it without and with shaders
20:29 Exio mauvebic: client/shaders
20:29 Taoki Calinou: Not hard. I already know where and how that's done
20:29 Calinou it is very unlikely all old graphic card owners are willing to spend 80 euros in a 7750, so that we could drop fixed-function :P
20:30 Taoki mauvebic: Something else you should be aware of. The lighting system uses a hack, and stores its intensity in an SColor. R is used for sun light, G for moon light, B for light sources. B is what interests us
20:31 Taoki It might seem like that by itself is the color value, but it's a (hacky IMO) way of storing multiple intensities per face or vertice
20:31 jojoa1997|Tablet jordan you made the cake mod right?
20:31 mauvebic no wonder the old code wouldn't work lol
20:31 mauvebic im in test_shader1/opengl_vertex.glsl
20:31 Taoki mauvebic: mapblock_mesh line 337 (static void finalColorBlend) That's where to do it without shaders first
20:32 Taoki Yes, that one's the shader version
20:32 Taoki Same adaptation must be done there
20:33 mauvebic for starters, i gotta reverse what i did to itemdef.cpp since thats not helping?
20:34 Taoki Lighting is applied separately on items and entities and players, in content_cao.cpp. That part is easier
20:34 Exio git stash
20:36 mauvebic fuck me lol
20:37 mauvebic http://ompldr.org/vaTN5cw/screenshot_258552915.png
20:37 Calinou kinda relevant to lighting: first one who gets smooth lighting to work on nodeboxes and new style water gets nobel prize :P
20:38 Calinou I wonder how hard this would be. this is technically possible since um, minecraft does it
20:38 mauvebic i got red light, but i got it everywhere lol
20:38 Taoki mauvebic: That's normal to get during testing :P
20:38 mauvebic at night: http://ompldr.org/vaTN5dQ/screenshot_258629199.png
20:38 Taoki mauvebic: Remember, Red is used to indicate sunlight Green moon Blue torches
20:38 Calinou changing what light value gives what color could be used for night vision potions :P
20:39 Taoki So we need to be sure we're editing the real color, not the hacky intensities stored
20:39 Calinou note that the current implementation of lighting reserves the "15" light value IIRC
20:39 Taoki mauvebic: Ah, that's good. If it's red both for son and moon light it's a step forward
20:39 mauvebic so, i managed to change the light colour of everything, though i only wanted to change it for light sources, hmm
20:39 Calinou just saying, keep in mind, might run into problems due to that
20:39 Taoki Light is being colorized. We only need to make sure it is based on the color of the light source. That's the tricky calculation
20:40 Taoki mauvebic: You need to make the blue channel of that hack I mentioned influence overall color
20:40 Taoki Light and moon must keep their current color (and look blue-ish at night)
20:40 mauvebic what i did was (lines 369~371): result.setRed(rg);
20:40 mauvebic result.setGreen(0);
20:40 mauvebic result.setBlue(0);
20:40 Taoki Ahh. Yeah that's not it
20:41 Taoki hold on
20:41 Taoki s32 rg = (day * daynight_ratio + night * (1000-daynight_ratio)) / 1000;
20:41 Taoki s32 b = rg;
20:41 Calinou we could give an orange-ish light to sunrise/sunset maybe :P
20:42 Taoki mauvebic: ^ in that you need to make the amount cast by b influence color
20:42 Taoki It's a bit tricky
20:42 Taoki Calinou: That would rock. Different thing tho
20:42 mauvebic so use the b conditional at line 353 to determine lightsource colour?
20:42 * Taoki wants sky settings to be in minetest.conf or lua someday. But not as urgent
20:43 Taoki mauvebic: Yes. Basically the intensity of b must be colorized
20:43 Taoki rg are sun and moon light, they must stay as is
20:43 mauvebic at what value does b become an artificial light source?
20:43 Taoki Something like mycolor(r,g,b) * b
20:43 Taoki Not sure. I assume that at 1 it means maximum lihting
20:44 starblessed joined #minetest
20:44 mauvebic what about line 360, that specifically mentions artificial light
20:44 mauvebic though the numbers dont make sense to me
20:45 Taoki That might have to go away. It probably makes light yellow-ish when at low intensity
20:45 starblessed I dont know if anyone is interested, but I just posted a Youtube Tutorial for Linux Mint / Ubuntu / Debian : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PESRAVcd8_0
20:45 Taoki Colored lights would probably have to override that
20:45 Taoki starblessed: nice
20:46 Leoneof joined #minetest
20:46 starblessed Its a real basic newbie guide.  I hope it helps bring in a few more people :D
20:46 starblessed Thanks Taoki
20:48 mauvebic not quite what i was hoping for : http://ompldr.org/vaTN6MA/screenshot_259221243.png
20:48 mauvebic daytime colours are vanilla, nightime is ambient green
20:49 mauvebic though aritificial stayed white
20:49 Taoki mauvebic: That's pretty close. Just not the exact formula yet
20:49 khonkhortisan bobblocks and lightstone would use it
20:49 mauvebic result.setRed(rg);
20:49 mauvebic result.setGreen(b);
20:49 mauvebic result.setBlue(b);
20:50 Taoki mauvebic: You probably need to use other balues but rg and b. Must code an algorithm to take a given amount of color and add its influence by "b"
20:50 Taoki eg: x = mycolor(0,0.5,1) * b
20:51 Taoki result.setBlue(x);
20:51 Taoki Maybe a bit more complex
20:57 Taoki Quick formula idea that might be close to what we're looking for: SColor total; total.setRed(rg * (0.5 * b)); total.setGreen(rg * (0.5 * b)); total.setBlue(b * (0.5 * b));
20:57 Taoki 0.5 meaning the real color for each channel, till we're setting an actual one
20:57 mauvebic lol http://ompldr.org/vaTN6Mw/screenshot_259770929.png
20:57 khonkhortisan you have two rg's and four b's
20:58 Taoki yeah, it's a confusing formula. The harders part is still storing color in param1, and calculating it per-source
20:59 khonkhortisan Will you still be able to recognize the old white-only color and change it to rgb?
20:59 mauvebic error: expected ‘;’ before ‘total’
20:59 hmmmm you guys are trying to do colored lighting at the mapnode level?
20:59 mauvebic yep yep, though im shooting blind here lol
20:59 Taoki hmmmm: Sure
20:59 khonkhortisan ^ just said it couldn't be done
20:59 hmmmm if so, be aware that it will not be accepted into minetest's codebase
20:59 jojoa1997|Tablet joined #minetest
21:00 hmmmm and that's a definite
21:00 mauvebic doesnt really matter to me, i want it for my game
21:00 Taoki That makes no sense
21:00 Calinou hmmmm, is there any other way to do it?
21:00 mauvebic and whoever else wants it
21:00 Taoki A lot of people want that, and it's doable as well with some work
21:00 hmmmm dynamic lighting
21:00 hmmmm sure, you guys can have it
21:00 Taoki Calinou: Sounds like he doesn't want it just for the sake of not wanting it...
21:00 hmmmm maintain your own fork
21:00 khonkhortisan so it would be two features at once?
21:00 jojoa1997|Tablet jordan4ibanez i cant wait to try your addition to potions
21:00 Calinou resource intensive > kills "minetest should run on old hardware" goal
21:00 khonkhortisan dynamic + color?
21:00 Calinou making it optional is not an option. else everyone is going to use it to make seeing stuff easier
21:01 hmmmm dynamic lighting would allow for color
21:01 Taoki Using 3 light values instead of 1 is not resource intensitve
21:01 Calinou hmmmm, and how slow is it?
21:01 Taoki Color would work for current lighting too
21:01 hmmmm no idea
21:01 hmmmm you guys are NOT making a mapnode larger than 32 bits
21:01 mauvebic i know it wouldn't be accepted, otherwise jacobf would prolly still be here lol
21:01 khonkhortisan if you want it to not be resource intensive, render everything in grayscale.
21:01 Calinou hmmmm, what problems does this do?
21:02 mauvebic i suggested sticking the colour in the nodedef if thats at all doable
21:02 Calinou excessive map size?
21:02 hmmmm how about doubles the size of everything related to map?
21:02 Taoki It certainly doesn't do anything bad
21:02 Calinou disk space is cheap today
21:02 hmmmm triples the amount of move operations needed?
21:02 mauvebic khonkhortisan, lol
21:02 hmmmm i'm glad you think so
21:02 hmmmm so, why don't you make your own fork with this feature
21:02 Calinou tripling move operations could be bad for slow storage though
21:02 Taoki you could make a fork of your on without it too :P
21:03 mauvebic considering how everyone likes to compare their specs here, i seem to have one of the weakest machines around, aside from netbook users, who cant play anyhow
21:03 Taoki Since everyone I asked wants this feature
21:03 hmmmm yes, users want a cool feature
21:03 Calinou I play minetest on my netbook, mauvebic :P
21:03 khonkhortisan I want it whether you asked me or not
21:03 hmmmm not really shocking
21:03 Taoki hmmmm: Developers needing to stop them from getting implemented is pretty new though
21:03 hmmmm the point is that the "obvious" way to implement it is really shitty for multiple reasons
21:03 mauvebic cant stand minetest on the netbook, mouse sensitivity issues, another config option you guys dont wanna add
21:04 Taoki not really
21:04 hmmmm but yes really
21:04 Calinou mauvebic, someone made a pull request about it, no?
21:04 Calinou touchpad works for playing minetest here
21:04 mauvebic yeah and i +1 it
21:04 Calinou not the best for pvp though 8D
21:04 Taoki You just use 3 values instead of 1. Basically 16 - 32 more unmbers, which is nothing for any machine
21:04 mauvebic but last time someone tried it went to the not-important bin
21:05 Taoki *numbers
21:05 Calinou or just use a script that tweaks mouse sens down when starting minetest, mauvebic
21:05 mauvebic the simplest solution was to get a second tower for my wife to play on lol
21:06 mauvebic use the netbook for recipes in the kitchen lol
21:06 Exio https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/657
21:06 Exio + 4 additions
21:06 Exio - 1 deletion
21:06 Calinou Taoki, see what hmmmm said about move operations, we use databases for the world
21:07 mauvebic point is, nodeboxes and shaders were eventually added despite misgivings over them, and im pretty sure enough people are gonna want colored lighting too
21:07 Taoki Calinou: If param1 has 3 more bits, it would still use only one move operation if I understand right. Since it's still just one value, only larger
21:07 Taoki mauvebic: From what I noticed, everyone agees and want them already
21:07 mauvebic they didn't want to grow the nodeid either until enough people complained they couldn't add more nodes
21:08 hmmmm where are you going to get three more bits for param1 from
21:08 mauvebic so instead of fighting it and everyone, can either help or get out of the way (imo)
21:08 Taoki hmmmm: Not good with bits, but I know it's possible. If currently it stores 16 values, it would simply store 48
21:08 hmmmm that's 16 PER LIGHT BANK
21:08 hmmmm and again, you need a PLACE to put it
21:09 hmmmm it just doesn't make sense to change minetest in such a fundamental way and shit it up just for some rare, special case in lighting
21:10 mauvebic they said that about nodeboxes too.... yet here they are
21:10 hmmmm i'm just saying this now so nobody gets hurt feelings when you ask me to merge it
21:10 Calinou mauvebic, +1
21:10 khonkhortisan No light is white
21:10 Taoki erm... it wouldn't be that rare of a case. Many mods could use it in many ways, and from what I'm seeing a lot of people would like to use this in their mods
21:10 Taoki Calinou, +2 :)
21:10 mauvebic rare? lol i cant picture a dozen mods coming from this
21:10 mauvebic *can
21:10 hmmmm 'mods'
21:10 Taoki mauvebic: Agreed
21:10 mauvebic well you cant have colored lighting from mods
21:11 mauvebic it needs to be done at the engine level, THEN the mods come
21:11 Taoki indeed
21:11 Calinou hmmmm, and the default game could have yellow lamps made from mese maybe.
21:11 hmmmm look
21:11 Calinou (if I understood what you said)
21:11 hmmmm i would love colored light
21:11 Taoki Yah. Blue lights from diamonds, etc
21:11 khonkhortisan lamps just as an example? It doesn't have to be in default
21:11 hmmmm that's great
21:11 hmmmm but you need to find a better way to do it
21:11 mauvebic true right now im just guessing since no one else wants to do it
21:12 Calinou rewriting the whole lighting system is painful
21:12 mauvebic and my way will prolly be hackish, but it's better than nothing
21:12 Taoki Calinou: Not rewriting the whole system, just adding extra values to be persisted
21:12 Calinou hmmmm wanted to have dynamic lighting
21:12 khonkhortisan dynamic lighting would be a rewrite
21:12 Taoki That yes
21:12 Exio mauvebic: suddenly, half of MT code will be "hacky but better than nothing code"
21:13 mauvebic then if lighting is to be redone anyhow - the new spec should include cloring
21:13 Taoki I totally support and want hardware lighting. I think I bring this up on a daily basis. But that's a different topic and even harder
21:13 mauvebic *coloring not chlorine
21:13 Calinou hacks are how you do progress, taking no risk brings you nowhere
21:13 hmmmm dynamic lights definitely does not
21:13 hmmmm i know you guys don't give a shit about the codebase, but i do
21:14 hmmmm this is basically all i'm hearing:
21:14 Taoki I care about the code base too. But if the code doesn't go what it should or could, it doesn't help to have a pretty code base to stare at
21:14 hmmmm end users:  WE WANT FEATURE X
21:14 Taoki As in, if it KEEPS us from doing things
21:14 khonkhortisan I care that two mods can't redefine the same node without knowing compensating for each other
21:14 hmmmm developer:  I have an obvious but bad way to add feature X!
21:14 hmmmm me:  you should find a better way to do feature X
21:14 hmmmm end users:  YOU JUST DON'T LIKE CHANGE
21:14 mauvebic well so far, youre not offering any better ideas
21:14 Taoki end user + developer: ATTAAAAAACK!
21:15 mauvebic youre just saying its a bad idea and ittl never get in, so yeah, we'll take hacks for five hundred Al
21:15 khonkhortisan roleplaying is good, it shows the conversation from a viewpoint.
21:15 Taoki I try to find the best way to add any idea. The best from those which are possible, even if it's not a great one overall
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21:16 Taoki mauvebic: It might be a bad one with the current obvious implementation. But since that's the best and possibly only one, I'd tend to think its better than nothing
21:16 Taoki I'd wand hardware lighting a ton more. If only this was any easier to do though...
21:16 mauvebic i mean starting off, im told the lighting system is a hack, so whats another hack anyhow?
21:16 Taoki The current voxel lighting is a hack yeah
21:16 Taoki At least I consider it such. But it was done cuz nothing better could be achieved
21:16 Exio the correct way should be the rewrite for making it not a hack and implement the real features in a proper way
21:16 Exio -> hard
21:17 Exio the easy and fast way is add more hacks into hacky ways to do something already pretty hacky
21:17 Taoki Which actually proves the point; We had to do a hack cuz there was no other way. If MT didn't it wouldn't have had lighting at all
21:18 Taoki Well not we, I didn't code the lighting system or know about Minetest by the time that was done :P But yeah
21:18 mauvebic brb, gonna make more coffee
21:19 Taoki Setting the color of each surface to simulate light is really really wrong overall in my opinion. Problem remains how to keep those darn lights from shining indoor :P
21:19 mauvebic ianno c55 said himself, the biggest problem is developers who dont play the game - perhaps its time to listen to those that do play...
21:19 Taoki till that's figured out, we have to go with an incorrect system
21:20 Calinou developers don't have time to play, players don't have time to develop
21:20 hmmmm the current lighting system isn't a hack
21:20 Taoki I'm one of the devs who do. Otherwise I couldn't put effort into the project so much
21:20 jordan4ibanez Apparently there was a bombing in boston
21:20 Taoki hmmmm: It's using vertex color to simulate light. They're not meant to be used for that, at least since the last 20 years. So it's not a correct thing
21:21 Calinou jordan4ibanez, old news
21:21 hmmmm conceptually, it's not meant to be used in that manner, but tacking on more colors isn't fixing the problem
21:21 hmmmm wow, 3 hours ago is old news
21:21 jordan4ibanez It's not old news
21:21 Calinou I knew about it 16 mins after yahoo made a post about it :P
21:21 Taoki hmmmm: Yeah. My idea for colored lights was doing it with the current system. Since hardware light would be even harder to do :P
21:21 Taoki Both things are hard to do properly overall
21:22 iqualfragile1 oh noes a bombing, lets build more cameras everywhere, that will fix it!
21:22 * Calinou is watching star's linux tutorials for fun
21:22 Taoki Only thing that will fix it is if people stop being crazy and stupid in this world, and resorting to that sort of thing. Which is a hard and painful process :)
21:22 hmmmm but to accomplish that, you want to do 3x more work, replace all current lighting code, make a change to the fundamental structure in minetest, make everything twice as big, consume twice as much bandwith, take longer to manipulate
21:23 Taoki hmmmm: Would using 3 values instead of 1 just for light make everything 2-3 times larger and longer? I would assume no one would notice a different
21:23 Calinou bandwidth could be a problem too for home servers
21:24 Calinou but it's not really significant unless someone spams torches when there are 10+ players nearby
21:24 Exio Calinou: the bits will need to be used
21:24 Exio even for dark places...
21:24 jordan4ibanez and now one went off at jfk library and at a hospital
21:24 Taoki Funny fact: Some say hardware lighting could be slower. But it would mean not having to calculate per-vertex lighting and network it over. It would make MT a dozen times faster than generating and sending lighting at all
21:24 iqualfragile1 i think its about change
21:25 Taoki *slower on old machines
21:25 mauvebic perhaps we should poll people's specs and finding out just how many are playing on commodore 64's
21:26 mauvebic because i have these ridiculously old games, some with better gfx
21:26 mauvebic cuz i get by on 1,2 and 3 gigs of ram, with pretty ordinary graphics cards
21:27 mauvebic cant we do with lighting what was done w/ particlespawners?
21:27 Calinou 'night
21:27 Taoki night
21:27 mauvebic nite
21:27 [0gb_us] Good night.
21:27 Taoki We can have hardware lighting, just no way to mask it indoor and in caves
21:28 mauvebic how much of a presence (if any) do we have on indiegamer forums?
21:29 mauvebic i could put up help wanted signs lol
21:29 iqualfragile1 night
21:30 mauvebic niote
21:30 mauvebic *nite
21:32 mauvebic well this convo either died or moved to dev lol so im gonna go finish my tall ship, bbl
21:38 [0gb_us] joined #minetest
21:41 khonkhortisan WHY is there a __newindex metemethod to registered nodes?
21:42 Traxie21 joined #minetest
21:42 Uberi joined #minetest
21:42 Traxie21 Hia jordy
21:43 khonkhortisan There is no table.copy(), and __newindex prevents me from adding new keys to the table returned from registered_nodes so that I can then minetest.register_node that table.
21:43 Uberi khonkhortisan: they have metatables with __newindex on them?
21:43 khonkhortisan YES!!!
21:43 Uberi ouch
21:43 khonkhortisan WHY?
21:44 Uberi can't you setmetatable to override that?
21:44 khonkhortisan probably.
21:44 Uberi very hacky though
21:44 Uberi probably a bad idea anyways
21:44 khonkhortisan What would be the non-hacky way to get a node definition, change a few keys, then reregister the node without __newindex getting in the way?
21:45 Uberi shallow copy + reregister?
21:45 Uberi I think your override_node thing is a step in the right direction
21:45 khonkhortisan Then I'd be defining a table copy that would be accessible from all mods
21:45 khonkhortisan unless I use local
21:46 Uberi yep, but table copy is broadly useful too
21:52 khonkhortisan solution: rawset(t, k, v)
21:52 Uberi I think that's still a bit hacky, personally
21:54 khonkhortisan getting a table, changing part of it, then sending it back _shouldn't_ be hacky, but __newindex makes it so. I don't even know why it's in there. It doesn't make it read-only, it makes it non-expandable.
21:54 Uberi khonkhortisan: well what's wrong with a shallow copy?
21:55 khonkhortisan I can do it without one.
21:58 khonkhortisan if directly trying to change minetest.registered_nodes[] truly does nothing, I should treat it as if it's already a copy.
21:58 Uberi well, is this behavior documented?
22:01 khonkhortisan oh. Directly changing minetest.registered_nodes[] is the same as minetest.register_node().
22:01 Uberi interesting
22:01 khonkhortisan doc/lua_api.txt just says "Anything added using certain minetest.register_* functions get added to the global minetest.registered_* tables."
22:02 Traxie21 Huh
22:02 Uberi well, I think relying on undocumented behavior should be avoided if possible
22:02 Traxie21 That means you could edit every entry in that table
22:03 khonkhortisan but nothing not in the table without registering it
22:03 khonkhortisan or rawset()ing it
22:03 khonkhortisan __newindex really doesn't make sense. What is its purpose? a read-only table? Because it fails at that.
22:04 Uberi it tries to be a readonly table, I guess
22:05 khonkhortisan Then it needs more than just __newindex.
22:05 Kacey joined #minetest
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22:09 Exio lol
22:09 Exio added + (rand()%15)
22:09 khonkhortisan Does this come with a picture?
22:09 Exio at the end of all the color things (setRed/G/B)
22:15 Traxie21 left #minetest
22:23 khonkhortisan A shallow copy of node definitions wouldn't work, because tiles can be a table and special_tiles can hold a table of tables
22:24 Uberi are those tables protected?
22:24 jordan4ibanez wow this should be in the default game, http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=5600 this wouldn't make anyone angry, and it's neat
22:25 Uberi that is pretty cool
22:25 Uberi but it could use a better background tecture
22:25 khonkhortisan The tables are protected only by __newindex, which keeps you from adding stuff, but allows you to change stuff.
22:25 Uberi khonkhortisan: no problem, override_node would use new tables, after all
22:26 khonkhortisan it would have to be a deep copy
22:26 [0gb_us] It's a bit Minecrafty, but other than that, it'd be useful for several reasons.
22:26 khonkhortisan I saw someone using it, and they were suprised the mese went into the wall
22:26 Uberi khonkhortisan: why a deep copy? we're not modifying those nested tables
22:27 jordan4ibanez minetest is minecrafty, should I say that we maybe should remove minetest from minetest because it is too minecrafty?
22:27 Uberi only replacing them
22:27 khonkhortisan So it's like a trophy case?
22:27 [0gb_us] Oh, wait. Does it use entities? If so, it should NOT be in default.
22:27 Uberi what's wrong with entities?
22:27 jordan4ibanez ^exactly, the new limit is 500
22:28 [0gb_us] Several things. Entities apparently still clone themselves, as well as slow down the server. And if too many are close by, the delete themselves.
22:28 Uberi yeah the item dupe glitch is a really big problem
22:29 Uberi basically if you can do it reliably, you can obtain infinite resources in survival
22:29 khonkhortisan If the limit is 500, and map blocks are 16 wide, that only lets us fill the world with 12% item frames
22:29 [0gb_us] Pluss any other entities in use.
22:31 jordan4ibanez we can spawn the same entity which it is built off of, should we remove item entities from the default game too? So what that there are engine glitches, this is a cool, and interesting thing that would make the game more interesting.
22:31 jordan4ibanez if you don't want to include a mod because of engine bugs, FIX THOSE BUGS
22:32 [0gb_us] If they knew how to fix them, they'd be fixed. For now, why add more bugginess?
22:32 [0gb_us] The engine isn't ready for more entities. Yet.
22:32 jordan4ibanez Because it's awesome! And it is!
22:33 [0gb_us] Then add it to YOUR server, not common. Don't force buggy things on everyone.
22:34 jordan4ibanez It's not forcing buggy things on people, because it's NOT buggy! :D
22:34 [0gb_us] Entities ARE buggy, so anything that uses entities IS buggy because of it.
22:35 jordan4ibanez Well you are an entity, are you saying that you are buggy, if you are buggy how do I know your point is valid, since your AI could be flawed! Therefore, your point is null. :D
22:35 * Uberi errors attempting to index null
22:35 [0gb_us] No, entities in Minetest. You're the one with AI as opposed to real I.
22:36 jordan4ibanez See, your sentences are not making sense, I think you are crashing.
22:37 Uberi it's OK, I'll just clean up the junk with an `rm -rf /`
22:37 [0gb_us] AI is artificial intelligence. "Real I" is real intelligence. Your logic is invalid and you don't think things through.
22:37 jordan4ibanez So you are saying that you are artificial? I guess that would explain your inability to process a creative thought. :3
22:38 [0gb_us] No, I'm saying YOUR intelligence is artificial.
22:38 [0gb_us] "You're the one with AI as opposed to real I."
22:39 jordan4ibanez How do you know if my intelligence is artificial if all you know me as, is words? Probably because of a bottleneck in your programming. See? You have bad AI.
22:39 [0gb_us] I can tell that much of your logic makes no sense. I'm not the one with AI.
22:40 [0gb_us] Not only now, but in many things you post.
22:40 jordan4ibanez I see you must be cleverbot. No AI would admit that they had limited AI.
22:40 [0gb_us] I have ZERO AI, as I have real I.
22:40 jordan4ibanez So you are I?
22:41 Uberi I don't know what you're arguing about, but I can say that both of you are making progressively less sense
22:41 [0gb_us] No, I have real intelligence.
22:41 [0gb_us] Uberi: He's trying to say I'm a robot.
22:41 jordan4ibanez But what would real intelligence be defined as?
22:42 Uberi er, what are these claims based on?
22:42 [0gb_us] For one thing, I'm not a robot, and for another, I can actually form a valid argument, unlike you.
22:42 [0gb_us] I don't know what his claims are based on.
22:42 jordan4ibanez See, I am human, I have flawed intelligence, your AI is almost perfect, therefore you are a robot.
22:43 [0gb_us] I HAVE NO AI, I AM NOT A ROBOT.
22:43 [0gb_us] Stop acting like a fool.
22:43 [0gb_us] Oh wait, it's not an act.
22:43 [0gb_us] My bad.
22:44 jordan4ibanez Only robots could spell so perfectly, why have I not caught one spelling or gramatical error in your output? There's only one explenation, 0gb_us is a robot.
22:44 Exio the answer is..
22:44 Exio 42!
22:45 [0gb_us] The spelling is because I use spell check. The grammar is because I'm not an idiot.
22:45 * [0gb_us] grabs Excalibur's cane, points it at jordan4ibanez, and exclaims "FOOL!"
22:46 jordan4ibanez Only robots could be so angered by the fact that organic beings point out the perfection of their AI. You robot.
22:47 [0gb_us] My issue it that you're calling it AI. It isn't. Please stop being a troll.
22:47 jordan4ibanez So you're admitting to being a robot?
22:47 [0gb_us] No.
22:48 [0gb_us] Robots have AI, as I said, I don't have AI.
22:48 jordan4ibanez Then how do you function without your AI?
22:49 * [0gb_us] puts jordan4ibanez in his IRC client's ignore list
22:49 Exio the ignore list is not in the RFC!
22:49 [0gb_us] SO?
22:49 [0gb_us] *So?
22:49 jordan4ibanez Ahh, you fought well robot, your AI is almost perfect, but I know who you truly are!
22:50 [0gb_us] My issue was with people claiming my client was bogus for not implementing non-standard things that they want.
22:50 Uberi if it's not in the IRC, add it to the IRC!
22:50 [0gb_us] Extra features are fine, provided people don't try to claim that clients that lack them are a problem.
22:50 Uberi the humans want to communicate more effectively
22:51 [0gb_us] That's fine. THis human just wants people to not claim his client is bogus.
22:51 [0gb_us] When my client did nothing wrong.
22:52 jojoa1997|Tablet joined #minetest
22:53 [0gb_us] Besides, my client doesn't really even have an ignore list. It's just an excuse to pretend I can't see his posts.
22:54 jordan4ibanez Well maybe you should program your client to work better with your AI
22:54 Uberi :P
22:56 jojoa1997|Tablet How do i make a mod use a blender file for the entity
22:56 Uberi jojoa1997|Tablet: export the blend as a .x
22:56 Uberi you need to enable to DirectX exporter first though
22:56 Uberi Ctrl+Alt+U -> Addons -> search for it
22:58 arsdragonfly joined #minetest
22:58 jordan4ibanez joined #minetest
22:58 jojoa1997|Tablet so how do i export it
22:59 jojoa1997|Tablet nvm found it
22:59 Uberi sprinkle fairy dust on it and wish very hard
22:59 VanessaE hi all.
23:00 Uberi o/ VanessaE
23:00 * jojoa1997|Tablet will have to learn blender and C++ this summer
23:02 jordan4ibanez look up basic tutorials
23:02 jordan4ibanez I'll never get used to steam on linux
23:03 lordcirth jordan4ibanez, TF2 on Linux is great
23:03 jordan4ibanez I know, it's really  fast too, but I'm just so used to the years where I ran steam with winetricks and in pclinuxos kde edition that when steam just works, it's like a surprise
23:06 Exio hi VanessaE
23:08 [0gb_us] Hey, VanessaE.
23:09 MiJyn joined #minetest
23:09 jojoa1997|Tablet how do i attach a mesh to an entity
23:09 VanessaE with staples? ;-)
23:09 Uberi jojoa1997|Tablet: visual="mesh"
23:10 Uberi superglue tends to backfire if you need to replace it later
23:10 jojoa1997|Tablet and mesh = "***.png"
23:10 Uberi correct
23:10 jojoa1997|Tablet i know
23:10 jojoa1997|Tablet sticky pistons
23:10 jojoa1997|Tablet oh and btw
23:10 jojoa1997|Tablet with minitest i am focusing on the mobs so i can get the basic materials going
23:10 Uberi sticky pistons?
23:10 jojoa1997|Tablet mesecons
23:11 Uberi I'd be one to know that :)
23:11 jojoa1997|Tablet though first i need to define emeralds and other
23:11 jojoa1997|Tablet maybe i will use an edited version of mobf instead
23:11 jordan4ibanez Jojoa: you need to make a mesh, take a screen shot, print it out, glue it to your screen, open minetest, spawn the entity, move it so that the picture is over the entity, there, you've meshed an entity\
23:12 Uberi jordan4ibanez: you didn't close the glue's lid afterwards! the glue dried out!
23:12 jordan4ibanez oops
23:12 Uberi the glue's parents blame you for its death
23:12 Uberi they successfully sue you for millions of dollars in damages
23:12 * jojoa1997|Tablet goes and jumps off a mountain in florida
23:13 [0gb_us] joined #minetest
23:13 Uberi the resulting money is given to charity to help less fortunate glues
23:13 jojoa1997|Tablet one problem
23:13 jordan4ibanez DAMN
23:14 jordan4ibanez lordcirth: do you play champions of regnum/
23:14 MiJyn left #minetest
23:14 MiJyn joined #minetest
23:14 * jojoa1997|Tablet throw his nexus out the window
23:14 lordcirth jordan4ibanez, no?
23:15 [0gb_us] Staples sound good. Is there a stapler plugin?
23:15 jojoa1997|Tablet FOR CRYING OUT LOUD. SHEEP IS THE MOST FAMOUS MOB IN MINECRAFT AND I CAN'T FIND A SINGLE BLENDER FILE!!!!!!!!!
23:15 MiJyn hi
23:15 [0gb_us] Hello.
23:15 MiJyn jojoa1997|Tablet: umm...... make one yourself?
23:16 Uberi jojoa1997|Tablet: what about the Simple Mobs one?
23:16 Uberi there's already 3D sheep in that mod
23:16 jojoa1997|Tablet i just downloaded blender i dont know how to make stuff
23:16 jordan4ibanez Oh my gosh jojoa, I think you woke up the people in -dev with that war cry
23:16 Uberi uh oh
23:16 MiJyn jojoa1997|Tablet: http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=a98a1fce7528ba99398a933aa660b4f7
23:16 jojoa1997|Tablet wiat
23:16 MiJyn jojoa1997|Tablet: Convert it then to blender
23:16 Uberi also try Blendswap, they're really the best
23:17 jojoa1997|Tablet i want to be able to use the minecraft mob textures
23:17 jordan4ibanez Texture map them then
23:17 [0gb_us] Ah, for minitest?
23:17 jojoa1997|Tablet yes
23:18 jojoa1997|Tablet i want to get materials out of the way
23:18 jojoa1997|Tablet like leather armor but i cant until i make cows
23:18 jojoa1997|Tablet idea
23:18 jojoa1997|Tablet use mobf
23:18 jojoa1997|Tablet i just convert minecraft models to .x
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23:20 mauvebic i should bring back my "no fornicating with sheep" sign :p
23:20 jojoa1997|Tablet ?
23:20 Uberi jojoa1997|Tablet: er, you should probably make sure the licenses are compatible
23:20 MiJyn left #minetest
23:21 mauvebic too old :p
23:21 mauvebic what uberi said too
23:21 Uberi CC is a safe bet
23:21 mauvebic theres a difference between being called copycats and doing something that might not be entirely legal
23:21 jojoa1997|Tablet what licenses for what
23:21 Uberi jojoa1997|Tablet: the blends, of course
23:22 Uberi most licenses at least leaglly require you to credit the authors
23:22 [0gb_us] joined #minetest
23:22 jojoa1997|Tablet you know what i will make my own
23:22 jojoa1997|Tablet i did keep track who made what
23:22 jojoa1997|Tablet but i think it will be a learning experience
23:22 mauvebic check out google warehouse, you can convert collada's to x (with varying results)
23:23 Uberi good idea, jojoa1997|Tablet
23:23 mauvebic thats where i found most of the missing ocean liners i wanted
23:23 Uberi you'll love blender
23:23 sdzen joined #minetest
23:23 mauvebic not sure about that lol
23:23 jojoa1997|Tablet that and i cant open the files or convert them
23:23 mauvebic my wife had infintely more patience to learn the interface than i did lol
23:24 mauvebic but hey she puts up with me so obviously... lol
23:24 Uberi mauvebic: 2.49?
23:24 Uberi those were the days
23:24 Uberi 2.6x is so much more usable now, anyone can learn it
23:25 mauvebic 2.63
23:25 mauvebic im on arch here :p
23:25 mauvebic i dont like how any toolbar can become any other toolbar, that confuses me lol
23:26 mauvebic sweet jesus i finally finished all the cabin windows on Queen Mary lol
23:26 BackupCoder joined #minetest
23:26 Uberi that sounds like a lot of work
23:26 mauvebic i had a stack of 1000 windows, roughly 60 left lol
23:27 jojoa1997|Tablet ok so
23:27 mauvebic and people say meshes takes all the hard work away lol
23:35 jordan4ibanez They would, we could have 3d torches
23:36 Uberi we do have 3D torches, just not slanted ones though
23:38 jordan4ibanez How am I even supposed to answer this"? http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=84246#p84246
23:38 jordan4ibanez Yes exactly, that's the issue, our torches are slanted, but 2d, or they're not and 3d
23:39 Uberi jordan4ibanez: obviously, the correct solution is to install PC Registry Mechanic 2008 and CoolWebSearch
23:39 Uberi afterwards, download some more RAM to make it run faster
23:40 jordan4ibanez I'd rather have ccleaner, defraggler, bleachbit, and advanced system care for a faster, cleaner pc, or call me at 1-111-101-0101
23:40 mauvebic "how do i get the lag from minetest" he wants more lag?
23:40 jordan4ibanez Oh sorry, I thought I was a commercial for a second
23:40 Uberi why ccleaner when you already have bleachbit?
23:40 jordan4ibanez BECAUSE MORE CLEAN ARE BETTER!
23:40 Exio lol jordan4ibanez
23:41 jordan4ibanez I think I've completely mentally given up today lol
23:41 mauvebic i remember friends who had half a dozen antiviruses and malware dectetors running at the same time, saying "im totally secure!" but couldn't understand why nothing else ran properly/quickly lol
23:41 Uberi bwahahaha
23:41 theTroy joined #minetest
23:41 Uberi here's how you get a fully secure PC:
23:41 Uberi 1. unplug the power cord
23:41 mauvebic and im like "how about not clicking on random shit?" and the dumbfounded look on their faces lol
23:42 Uberi let's see these crackers break into my turned-off PC
23:42 jordan4ibanez You need a multicore cpu to run more than 1 virus protector and notepad
23:44 [0gb_us] joined #minetest
23:45 mauvebic call me paranoid but im reasonably convinced antivirus companies write alot of viruses, ive never had as many problems as when i ran one
23:45 mauvebic companies that make a living out of solving problems have no interest (financial or otherwise) in actually solving said problem
23:46 jordan4ibanez If you don't 100% trust/understand the program you install to keep viruses away, you are likely to have fake viruses installed into your pc
23:46 mauvebic they throw up alot of false positives to keep people edgy that much i know
23:47 mauvebic though, adblocker + noscript does the trick nicely for browsers, and if youre dumb enough to download something youre not sure about, you deserve your troubles
23:47 Octupus joined #minetest
23:47 Gambit joined #minetest
23:47 Uberi don't forget having a good firewall
23:47 jordan4ibanez My friend has a virus protector on his laptop which calls minetest/minecraft a virus
23:48 Uberi the firewall is a big one, too
23:48 jordan4ibanez Gambit, can you add support for my cauldron in your fancy texture pack?
23:48 Gambit "I am not the Gambit from the Minetest forums."
23:49 mauvebic busy day on twitter lol
23:49 jordan4ibanez Well then do a funny trick then damnit
23:51 mauvebic first question that pops into most minds on slashdot: which civil liberties will be the next to go lol
23:51 OWNSyouAll joined #minetest
23:51 jordan4ibanez Yeah exactly, we're thinking of moving out of the US
23:52 mauvebic well if you think other governments won't overreact as well...
23:52 Uberi boston marathon event confirmed as bombing apparently
23:52 mauvebic in canada weve been fighting this internet-spying bill for a long time, it might finally go through
23:52 lordcirth does dirt_with_grass not grow underground? I can't find the abm, is it in the C++ ?
23:52 Octupus Everyone Gambit is from minecraft
23:53 Octupus I see him in there irc channel
23:53 [0gb_us] It needs enough light to grow. Put a torch on it.
23:53 mauvebic though i doubt the conservative party will have any staying power at the next election, they really fumbled with abortion and temporary foreign workers program
23:53 mauvebic plus the liberals found their own ronald reagan of sorts
23:54 lordcirth [0gb_us], I have 2 torches right beside it, will try putting it on top
23:54 [0gb_us] I think it has to be one on top.
23:54 Uberi mauvebic: I sure hope not
23:55 [0gb_us] It only takes one, but it may have to be on top.
23:55 mauvebic uberi you canadian? i thought you were down south
23:55 [0gb_us] Also, sometimes it takes a long time to grow.
23:56 mauvebic though the libs are nuts if they think trudeau jr will be any more popular in Quebec than his father was lol
23:56 Uberi nah mauvebic, I'm in the GTA
23:56 mauvebic GTA? i grew up there, in Markham
23:56 mauvebic back then it was mostly fields lol
23:57 Uberi yeah urban sprawl's on its way
23:57 mauvebic my best memory is my parents signing up to the Toronto Zoo summer camp program, i loved that place before they redid the whole thing
23:58 mauvebic they basically closed all the paths going through dense vegetation so you're always walking in the sun (and thir$ty)
23:58 mauvebic also miss the monorail lol
23:58 Uberi and the water costs like 6 bucks a bottle
23:59 Uberi a smart business move, though
23:59 mauvebic seriously lol it sucks now
23:59 Uberi Wonderland does the same thing
23:59 mauvebic well smart, people like me dont go anymore, even when we do visit
23:59 lordcirth [0gb_us], worked, after a while. thx
23:59 mauvebic sprawl is a bitch, but its happening in montreal too, belatedly but still

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