Time Nick Message 00:22 hmmmm Drop the GNU, just Linux 00:22 hmmmm or 00:22 marktraceur hmmmm: Why d'you think that? 00:22 hmmmm No, Richard, it's "Linux", not "GNU/Linux" 00:22 marktraceur Same question 00:22 hmmmm this has been debated to death 00:23 marktraceur hmmmm: And yet we're still alive 00:23 marktraceur May as well do science 00:23 hmmmm richard stallman is the one who champions saying GNU/Linux 00:23 hmmmm it's not like the 'correct' name 00:24 marktraceur hmmmm: Why would you say it's any less correct than assuming that GNU is part of the Linux project? 00:24 hmmmm I'd say it comes down to preference 00:24 iqualfragile marktraceur: you know whats harmfull to linux? 00:24 iqualfragile you. 00:24 hmmmm If you like saying GNU/ every time then I guess it's just as good 00:25 hmmmm ganoooo ganoooooo ganooooo 00:25 marktraceur iqualfragile: Another statement that could use some support. Why do you think that? 00:25 hmmmm iqualfragile: I'd just like to interject for a moment 00:25 hmmmm What you're referring to as Linux is actually GNU/Linux, or as i've recently taken to calling it, GNU + Linux 00:25 * hmmmm cue copypasta 00:25 iqualfragile its just that you people dont like to say gnu/linux 00:26 marktraceur hmmmm: No, I think this is important actually. Is it really just as valid to say that GNU is a part of Linux as it is to say that they're two projects that work together? 00:26 hmmmm they are two projects that work together 00:26 iqualfragile it are two projects that work together bu 00:26 marktraceur And yet, commonly, people say the former. 00:26 iqualfragile t i dont reffer to my os as pidgin/kde/gnu/linux 00:26 hmmmm marktraceur, there are lots of projects that work with Linux to make the distros we see today 00:27 hmmmm doesn't mean they need to be included 00:27 hmmmm what about Xorg? 00:27 hmmmm why don't you say Xorg/GNU/Linux? 00:27 iqualfragile ah, right 00:27 marktraceur iqualfragile: If pidgin and KDE were part of the OS, I would agree that were important 00:27 marktraceur Xorg is the same 00:27 hmmmm Xorg is not part of the OS? 00:27 hmmmm the entire universe revolves around Xorg pretty much 00:27 marktraceur GNU and Linux both deal with sufficiently low-level constructs to qualify as operating system components. 00:27 marktraceur Xorg does not. 00:28 jin_xi lol 00:28 hmmmm GNU is too irrelevant to be made part of the title 00:28 iqualfragile so im using KDE/Xorg/prop.nvidea_firmware_blob/GNU/Linux 00:28 marktraceur hmmmm: In what way is GNU irrelevant? 00:28 hmmmm because the coreutils could've easily come from somewhere else 00:28 hmmmm they're not exactly huge parts 00:28 iqualfragile & dont get me started on hurd 00:28 hmmmm look at Android for example 00:28 marktraceur hmmmm: That doesn't change where they came from, and it's not only coreutils. 00:29 iqualfragile what else? 00:29 hmmmm marktraceur, but how does that make it necessary to say "GNU/" 00:29 hmmmm i don't get it 00:29 iqualfragile in fact i did rather say kde/linux 00:29 hmmmm the Linux people commonly use includes Xorg 00:29 iqualfragile realy 00:29 marktraceur iqualfragile: glibc, gcc, lots of other really vital components. 00:29 iqualfragile that sounds descriptive 00:29 hmmmm marktraceur: gcc can easily be replaced by pcc and clang 00:30 hmmmm glibc is replaced by ulibc in some distributions focused on being lightweight 00:30 iqualfragile kde/linux 00:30 hmmmm they aren't necessary pieces of linux at all 00:30 marktraceur hmmmm: That doesn't change the fact that most distributions *use* those components 00:30 hmmmm you seem quite defensive about this 00:30 hmmmm it also doesn't change the fact that most distros *use* Xorg and KDE or GNOME as well 00:31 iqualfragile just: why would you call something gnu/linux, as you are stating yourself: everybody is using the gnutools 00:31 iqualfragile its just simplification 00:31 iqualfragile it makes more sense to specify the de, realy 00:31 iqualfragile lxdm/linux 00:31 marktraceur hmmmm: You could replace Linux with BSD, so why not call it Ubuntu BSD? 00:31 Uberi|Away I'd like a Ubuntu BSD 00:32 hmmmm that has been done with Gentoo, Debian, and now Arch 00:32 iqualfragile no, you cant just replace the kernel 00:32 iqualfragile (without loss of hardware compatibility and features) 00:32 marktraceur iqualfragile: It takes some work, of course, but so would replacing GNU with BusyBox. 00:32 marktraceur (and PCC and ulibc and whatever else) 00:33 hmmmm but if you're so focused on correctness, why do you argue that "most" distributions use GNU 00:33 iqualfragile marktraceur: this discussion, why do we have it? it wont lead to any result and just annoys me, realy 00:33 marktraceur iqualfragile: You don't have to be part of it 00:33 marktraceur hmmmm: I don't argue that. I say GNU when it is GNU. 00:34 hmmmm okay, then good enough 00:34 hmmmm just leave it like that 00:34 hmmmm so you know why we say Linux just like Linux 00:34 iqualfragile and dont fag arount when we just use linux 00:34 hmmmm because it refers to any operating system that uses the Linux kernel 00:34 marktraceur hmmmm: But it's more than Linux. It's more than that. 00:34 iqualfragile wronk 00:34 hmmmm marktraceur: But Windows is more than windows 00:34 hmmmm and BSD is more than BSD 00:34 hmmmm so what? 00:34 iqualfragile its more that you think of when you hear linux 00:34 marktraceur iqualfragile: You use *only* Linux? How do you get anything done? 00:35 hmmmm Did you know that your water has more than water in it? 00:35 iqualfragile "reading" is a helpfull skill 00:35 marktraceur Hm. 00:35 iqualfragile but its exactly what we think of when we hear linux 00:35 hmmmm you should say "Bacteria-Dust-Nanoparticles-Chlorine-Water" 00:35 iqualfragile and you know that 00:35 marktraceur hmmmm: If there were an appreciable amount of something else in it, I would call it by a modified name. e.g. carbonated water. 00:35 mauvebic http://www.zimg.eu/i/493627853 <- big one 00:36 iqualfragile dont forget the calcium 00:36 hmmmm but GNU isn't as appreciable as an amount as Xorg. 00:36 hmmmm this keeps going in circles 00:36 marktraceur iqualfragile: How does your shared misconception make your statement any more true? 00:36 iqualfragile thats what makes language 00:36 iqualfragile its not set in stone 00:36 marktraceur hmmmm: If you can find some reason Xorg should be considered part of an operating system, I'd be interested to see that 00:37 hmmmm marktraceur: Well why should GNU be considered part of an operating system? 00:37 iqualfragile "you use only linux and gnu? how do you get anything done"? 00:37 hmmmm indeed 00:37 hmmmm how do you get anything done with GNonsense 00:37 jin_xi idk, fsf supporter here, but still i wont bother with typing gnu/foo 00:37 marktraceur iqualfragile: I also use other software on top of it that interfaces with both in order to interact with computer hardware. 00:37 iqualfragile when a lot of people use a word for one meaning then it gets that meaning 00:38 iqualfragile then referr to it correctly! 00:38 marktraceur hmmmm: Because it's the basis for the entire system. It defines how programs interact, how the system deals with most basic constructs, and more. 00:38 iqualfragile you are not talking about posix are you? 00:38 hmmmm No it doesn't, Linux does that 00:38 marktraceur iqualfragile: That's simply not true. I mean, maybe those people *understand* the meaning. But the meaning isn't changed. 00:39 iqualfragile it is changed 00:39 marktraceur hmmmm: Linux does some of it. Large parts of the system are run by GNU. 00:39 hmmmm Such as? 00:39 * marktraceur just went over this in part 00:39 iqualfragile thats how language works, sadly im unable to give an example in the english language 00:39 hmmmm not really 00:39 iqualfragile bit i have one for german: 00:39 hmmmm you said it "defines" how the programs interact 00:39 iqualfragile geil meant horny some years ago 00:40 hmmmm POSIX defines that, Linux implements the IPC syscalls 00:40 iqualfragile but now we use geil to express that we thik somethig is cool 00:40 iqualfragile the meaning has shifted 00:40 marktraceur hmmmm: https://www.gnu.org/software/software.html has all the software included in the system 00:41 marktraceur Some of those aren't included in a basic install of GNU/Linux, but a lot of them are pretty basic software. 00:41 hmmmm so you're saying "basic software" is what GNU does for Linux? 00:42 * marktraceur doesn't know how much clearer it can be 00:42 hmmmm but you still haven't mentioned how it's the basis though 00:42 hmmmm it seems like "basic software" could be a hello world 00:42 hmmmm doesn't mean it's necessary OR useful 00:42 jin_xi i don't think its about technical stuff... I think RMS should have embraced linux as a name when he made the han solo and the rebel fleet speech 00:42 marktraceur hmmmm: "The system's basic components include the GNU Compiler Collection (GCC), the GNU C library (glibc), and GNU Core Utilities (coreutils),[1] but also the GNU Debugger (GDB), GNU Binary Utilities (binutils),[26] the bash shell[21][27] and the GNOME desktop environment." 00:43 hmmmm marktraceur, so you're saying that Linux can't be used without any of that? 00:43 marktraceur hmmmm: Without a compiler? I'd wish you luck. 00:43 hmmmm marktraceur, I already said there are plenty of compilers to choose from 00:43 marktraceur That's true. 00:43 hmmmm The point is that GNU adds __NOTHING__ that is necessary for Linux 00:43 marktraceur And if you use a different compiler, and a different everything else, then it's not GNU/Linux. 00:43 jin_xi look at gcc discussions: tons of technical reasons to open up, RMS says: the fsf campaigns for freedom 00:44 hmmmm marktraceur, but it's not a part of the OS any more than anything else is like Xorg 00:44 hmmmm see? 00:44 hmmmm that was your argument why GNU needed to be included but nothing else should be 00:44 marktraceur hmmmm: glibc _defines how the system gets used_. It doesn't get much more basic than that. 00:44 hmmmm "defines"? 00:45 hmmmm it certainly doesn't "define" anything, 00:45 hmmmm POSIX defines it 00:45 marktraceur No wait, I'm wrong. gcc creates the system. 00:45 hmmmm And so does clang 00:45 hmmmm It's nonsense. Your argument is nonsense. 00:45 iqualfragile well, good night then 00:45 marktraceur hmmmm: glibc defines the way C programs use the system, sorry, I misspoke. 00:45 jin_xi https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2012-12/msg00072.html 00:45 hmmmm marktraceur: No, POSIX defines everything 00:45 hmmmm glibc is an implementation of defined standards 00:46 hmmmm It's not a necessary part of Linux at all. 00:46 marktraceur hmmmm: And GNU in general is an implementation of UNIX-y standards. But that doesn't make it UNIX. 00:46 marktraceur hmmmm: Did I say GNU was a part of Linux? 00:46 hmmmm You said it was necessary to make Linux usable 00:46 marktraceur There's a reason I'm standing here telling you to use two names. They're separate. 00:46 marktraceur hmmmm: I said Linux alone would be unusable. I didn't say *only GNU* will make it useful. 00:46 marktraceur BusyBox and BSD also help. 00:47 hmmmm Linux alone is not unusable. 00:47 hmmmm You can use it just fine. 00:47 marktraceur hmmmm: Technically true, but ultimately you'll need to e.g. use a command line or open a text editor. 00:47 marktraceur Modern computing requires more than a kernel. 00:47 hmmmm And you're ultimately going to need a GUI too right? 00:48 marktraceur Ultimately, you can use a GUI, it's true. 00:48 hmmmm So what is it, Xorg/GNU/Linux or just Linux? 00:48 hmmmm Your call. 00:48 hmmmm Xfce/Xorg/GNU/Linux make that 00:48 marktraceur hmmmm: Xorg, I maintain, is not basic enough to be called part of the OS. 00:48 hmmmm Neither is GNU. 00:49 hmmmm I just demonstrated why. 00:49 hmmmm GNU is not part of the OS. Linux is an OS on its own. 00:49 hmmmm It just so happens that GNU has some set of tools that a distribution may elect to bundle together to make Linux easier to use 00:49 marktraceur hmmmm: We've just been over this. Compilers and basic C libraries are part of the OS. So are linkers. Want to talk about GUIs? Most people use some form of GNOME, and the G stands for GNU also. 00:49 hmmmm No, they aren't. 00:50 hmmmm You don't need a C library at all to be part of the OS. 00:50 marktraceur hmmmm: You can hold your ears shut and say "no it's not no it's not" all you want. 00:50 hmmmm And so could you, which is what you've been doing for the past half hour 00:50 marktraceur hmmmm: I've been trying to explain that a C library and a compiler are necessary, vital, basic components of an OS. You just keep saying "nuh-uh" as if it were some deep wisdom. 00:51 hmmmm If I didn't prompt you to go deeper into why, the discussion would've never gone to this depth and would've remained stupid 00:51 hmmmm marktraceur: A C library isn't necessary because you could just as well use some different language 00:52 hmmmm Each of the programs you execute could have their own C library in them as well 00:52 marktraceur hmmmm: But nobody does. Or at least, GNU/Linux distros don't. You can't talk about non-GNU/Linux as an example, because that's not what we're discussing. 00:52 hmmmm But that's not the point if people do or don't. 00:52 marktraceur It's whether people can or not? 00:52 hmmmm That's right 00:53 marktraceur Well, then I'll just start calling Ubuntu Mac OS 9. 00:53 hmmmm Have fun. 00:53 marktraceur You could theoretically replace one with the other, so they must be the same thing. 00:53 hmmmm Sure. 00:53 marktraceur It sure is nice being a Mac OS 9 user, wouldn't you say? 00:53 hmmmm You're trying to make what I said absurd, but it's really not working. 00:54 hmmmm My point is that because it's possible to run Linux without any of those things, Linux must be considered a complete OS 00:54 marktraceur hmmmm: I don't really care, you've proven that names are infinitely interchangeable and I've moved on to the amusement that that provides. 00:54 hmmmm Have fun. I'm pretty sure you're going to be the only person who does such 00:54 marktraceur Almost certainly. 00:55 hmmmm So, why is it that you're so adamant about this? 00:55 marktraceur I really am glad that HP made this new version of Mac OS, though. They really flaired it out with this Unity interface. 00:55 hmmmm It is really irritating 00:55 marktraceur hmmmm: No, no. There's nothing wrong about it, technically. 00:55 Rabbi_Bob Anyone have the install media for Precise Mountain Pangolin Lion? 00:56 hmmmm It would really be nice if you just didn't pop in and say "you mean Ganoo/luncks" every time someone says linux 00:56 marktraceur Rabbi_Bob: I heard that Oracle would be releasing it in February. 00:56 marktraceur Rabbi_Bob: Their subsidiary Google is hard at work on the new version. 00:56 Rabbi_Bob Right after they fix Java, awesome. 00:57 marktraceur Rabbi_Bob: Are you daft? Canonical bought Java fifteen years ago. 00:57 Uberi :O 00:57 * Rabbi_Bob taps VanessaE on the shoulder 00:57 marktraceur hmmmm: No, I'm cool with it, infinitely interchangeable names are fun. 00:57 Uberi which universe am I in 00:57 Rabbi_Bob We're exiting the total linux perspective vortex right about now Uberi 00:58 marktraceur Let's just get back to SuperTuxKart chatter. Maybe somebody has some mod questions? I'm rather skilled in Lisp, so I can help. 00:58 Uberi I knew I shouldn't have opened that suitcase, Rabbi_Bob 00:59 sdzen Uberi: I thought the same thing when I walked into that wardrobe 00:59 marktraceur Ooh, I love Edgar Allan Poe. 00:59 Uberi or narnia, perhaps 00:59 marktraceur I mean, the Narnia books were all right, but the Eragon series is where he really hit his stride. 01:03 Uberi eragon was pretty good 01:03 marktraceur It did seem a bit derivative of Tolkein's "Grapes of Wrath", though. 01:03 Uberi :P 01:08 babyface1031 what would cause ppl to timeour logging in to a server? 01:08 sdzen lots of things 01:08 OnlyHuman gnight 01:08 marktraceur babyface1031: Common issue is that they're already logged in somewhere else 01:09 babyface1031 multiple ppl on a server are trying to log in but keep timeing out 01:09 marktraceur Maybe there's a limit as to the number of connections there can be at once 01:09 babyface1031 theres been more ppl on before 01:10 marktraceur I dunno, then. Maybe there's some problem with their connection. 01:10 babyface1031 ok 01:22 Kacey hi guys 01:26 Menche hi 01:28 Kacey !up menche.servegame.com 30001 01:28 Minetest-tan menche.servegame.com:30001 seems to be down 01:28 Kacey have you reset the map yet? 01:29 Menche !up menche.servegame.com 30001 01:29 Minetest-tan menche.servegame.com:30001 is up (0.298ms) 01:29 Menche thinking of just installing protector mod and calling it done 01:30 Kacey that could work... 01:30 Menche it would probably be temporary 01:30 Menche or, rely on rollback 01:30 Kacey no more creative? 01:30 jojoa1997 !hi all 01:30 jojoa1997 opps 01:31 jojoa1997 hi all 01:31 Kacey afk dinner 01:31 jojoa1997 kacey no more creative where 01:31 Menche on my server 01:31 jojoa1997 ip and port 01:32 Menche menche.servegame.com:30001, may be changed to 30000 in the future 01:32 jojoa1997 joining 01:32 Menche will grant privs 01:32 jojoa1997 k 01:33 Menche soon as i load... 01:50 * kaeza yawns 01:50 kaeza hello channel 01:51 marktraceur kaeza: Hello! 01:52 kaeza what did I miss besides the usual terminology wars? 01:52 marktraceur kaeza: Oh, not much of anything. Just the usual BosWars channel discussions. 01:58 kaeza ah good, good. 02:10 Kacey hi kaeza 02:22 Kacey hello? 02:23 kaeza hey 02:23 marktraceur kaeza: Damn, you ruined it. I have a continuing hope that people who come in and say "Hello? Hello?" will think that they're the last remaining people on IRC. 02:24 kaeza hah 02:24 kaeza unintentional troll 02:25 kaeza Kacey, http://youtu.be/yM6RtQyfKII 02:25 Kacey i watched that already lol 02:34 NekoGloop Goooood evening all! 02:34 * The_Persona puts a kitten on NekoGloop's head 02:34 * NekoGloop purrs 02:38 * Kacey needs a kitten 02:40 * The_Persona dumps a truckload of kittens on Kacey 02:40 * Kacey finds a cute little one and walks off 02:41 Kacey http://stuffpoint.com/kittens/image/150748-kittens-cute-kitten.jpg looks like this 02:41 The_Persona d'aww 02:42 NekoGloop Ignore list still goin' strong 02:42 The_Persona how many entries, NekoGloop? 02:42 NekoGloop One. "Kacey!*@*" 02:43 The_Persona NekoGloop: no room for LandMine? :P 02:43 NekoGloop He's not on often enough 02:43 Kacey landmine needs ip banned 02:43 The_Persona nah we tried a bunch of times 02:44 YoungDerp tehe NekoGloop 02:44 NakedFury all it needs is less attention 02:44 NekoGloop Oh hey, something to /whois for an IP. 02:44 YoungDerp i can change ips really efficiently 02:46 The_Persona yep, IPs are terrible for unique IDs of a physical computer 02:46 kaeza creative SEO spammer? http://forum.minetest.net/profile.php?id=4156 02:47 The_Persona nah he/she seems like an actual user 02:50 hmmmm http://ompldr.org/vaDlucg/screenshot_2218054327.png 02:50 hmmmm oh god i am not good wit computer how did i do this 02:51 NekoGloop that is FUCKING AWESOME 02:51 Menche How?!?!?! 02:51 Menche whoa 02:52 hmmmm http://ompldr.org/vaDludA/screenshot_2150468012.png 02:52 hmmmm i am in a different dimension 02:53 Uberi|MC worldedit, hmmmm? 02:53 NekoGloop YOU HAVE FOUND THE SKY DIMENSION 02:53 hmmmm no 02:53 NekoGloop goddammit caps lock. 02:53 Uberi|MC or maybe multinode superquadratics 02:53 NekoGloop or maybe edited mapgen 02:54 hmmmm i am screwing around with 3d noise.. that's going to be the basis of the Aether biome 02:54 Menche that must be added to default, at like +1000 maybe 02:55 NekoGloop lol aether. 02:57 hmmmm it's not bad, i can generate an 80x80x80 node chunk in about 80ms 02:57 hmmmm very viable 02:57 hmmmm and this is with debug enabled 02:57 Uberi|MC oh sweet aether biome 02:58 NekoGloop That's a lot of 80's. 02:58 Menche in c++ or lua? 02:58 Uberi|MC hmmmm: 80ms? C++ then? 02:58 hmmmm c++ obviously 02:58 Uberi|MC I can't imagine doing 80x80x80 in lua 02:58 hmmmm but i guess it won't be too obvious once the ManualMapVoxelManipulator Lua interface gets done 02:58 hmmmm my goal is to eventually be able to do this sort of stuff in Lua 02:58 hmmmm reasonably 02:59 Kacey night all 02:59 Kacey go to sleep 02:59 hmmmm it's only 10 02:59 hmmmm pft 03:00 NekoGloop Lemme guess, go to sleep 03:00 Uberi|MC very good, NekoGloop 03:01 NekoGloop So predictable :D 03:03 hmmmm so microsoft office 2013 is going to be released tomorrow 03:03 Uberi|MC what 03:03 hmmmm who's hosting an Office party? 03:09 Uberi|MC ... 03:09 NekoGloop Quitter. 03:13 hmmmm winners don't do drugs 03:19 mauvebic didn't the US last president do blow in his youth? 03:19 mauvebic *last US lol 03:19 hmmmm yeah and look at him, he's a loser 03:20 mauvebic theres not much more you can win in life than the presidency lol 03:20 hmmmm but the arcade machine said so 03:20 mauvebic well im against hard drugs but i dont consider 420 to be worse than alcohol, though all in all, i say legalize and tax it all 03:21 mauvebic right now the money's flowing from crime org's to political parties in the form of donations, thats hardly better 03:23 mauvebic http://goo.gl/V5Dcp :p 03:25 mauvebic yuck! -> http://cheezburger.com/6997590272 03:26 NekoGloop That actually looks good 03:26 mauvebic ewww 03:27 mauvebic when i was in highschool they at least filled out those trays a bit more but now you get a pile of pasta on one side and a bit sauce on the other lol 03:28 mauvebic they also used to cost 4-5$ instead of the 2$ now 03:30 mauvebic http://cheezburger.com/7000912896 lol 03:58 NekoGloop lolhequit 04:00 OldCoder ? 04:01 NekoGloop quit messages. 04:01 NekoGloop some people read them. 04:01 NekoGloop ;-) 04:02 OldCoder k 06:12 VanessaE hey Taoki. 06:39 * OldCoder is sleeping 06:39 VanessaE wake up! 06:39 VanessaE :) 06:40 * OldCoder stirs but does not wake 06:47 kaeza 4 teh lulz! https://dl.dropbox.com/u/100008207/ssss/screenshot_2228648488.jpg 07:02 VanessaE heh 07:13 kaeza srsly my brain hurts... http://cheezburger.com/6983741952 07:14 VanessaE oh that'll mess with your mind. 08:02 VanessaE zzz 08:32 hmmmm :-)!! 08:32 hmmmm feels good when everything is working great 08:33 hmmmm i have one last bug i have to tackle but i'm not really sure where to start..... i should ask people if they have the same problem too first 08:33 VanessaE ? 08:33 hmmmm heh 08:33 hmmmm vanessa, do you have debug logging enabled? 08:33 hmmmm or rather i should say, did you not disable it? 08:33 VanessaE logging, yes 08:33 VanessaE -rw-rw-r-- 1 vanessa vanessa 1032736913 Jan 29 03:34 debug-server.txt 08:34 VanessaE does that answer your question? :) 08:34 hmmmm look in there and tell me what the last line you see is 08:34 VanessaE 03:35:35: VERBOSE[ServerThread]: Server: Handling peer change: id=2, timeout=0 08:34 VanessaE LOTS of those in fact. 08:34 hmmmm and this is like the newest version right? 08:34 VanessaE yes 08:34 hmmmm reall goddamn odd 08:34 hmmmm want to hear the problem i'm having 08:34 VanessaE commit bcc0ca93d463ec7bdf6ff1ef621f7777014c404a 08:35 VanessaE sure 08:35 VanessaE I've been seeing "unknown" users showing up lately. 08:35 hmmmm well whenever line 129 in biome.cpp executes, that is, it prints something to the verbose screen, the logging seems to freeze up 08:35 VanessaE as in /status shows my name and one or more unknowns from time to time 08:36 hmmmm after this is printed verbosestream << "BiomeDefManager: added biome '" << b->name << "' to biome group " << b->groupid << std::endl; 08:36 hmmmm NOTHING else gets printed to debug.log 08:36 VanessaE that IS odd. 08:36 hmmmm i comment out that line 08:36 hmmmm works perfectly 08:36 hmmmm it cuts out directly after "to biome group " and doesn't print out the groupid 08:36 hmmmm i don't understand it at all 08:37 VanessaE if I could remember what -> does in C++ I might have a guess 08:37 hmmmm this is nothing exotic - i'm just printing out a damn line using ostreamwriter 08:37 hmmmm that dereferences a member of a pointer to an object 08:37 hmmmm so let's say you have Object *foo 08:37 hmmmm foo is a variable containing the address of where an object of type Object resides 08:38 VanessaE right 08:38 hmmmm foo->bar accesses member 'bar' of the object being pointed at by 'foo' 08:38 VanessaE gotchya 08:38 hmmmm it's equivalent to (*foo).bar 08:38 hmmmm you should start doing more c++ 08:38 VanessaE or vaguely like foo.bar in Lua. 08:38 hmmmm you'll love it i'm sure 08:38 VanessaE oh I might eventually do so at some point 08:39 VanessaE anyways 08:39 hmmmm change that might into a will and the eventually into asap and we're in business 08:39 hmmmm heh, it's like almost 4 08:39 hmmmm what'r you doing up 08:40 VanessaE if I learn C++ to a decent degree, celeron55 can tell me my ideas are horrible 10x more often ;) 08:40 VanessaE oh, it's just another sleepless night for me 08:40 VanessaE not the first, won't be the last. 08:40 hmmmm i don't feel tired for some reason but i'm sure if i lay down i'll instantly pass out 08:40 VanessaE see I have just the opposite problem. 08:40 hmmmm need to get back on a sleep schedule for school 08:40 VanessaE if I sit here at the computer, I get groggy after a while.....until I lie down. 08:40 hmmmm starts on wednesday for me 08:41 VanessaE they I'm wired. 08:41 VanessaE then* 08:41 hmmmm that used to happen to me but not so much anymore 08:41 VanessaE university? 08:41 hmmmm yeah 08:41 VanessaE cool 08:41 hmmmm this is gonna be a fun semester 08:41 hmmmm i have 7 classes 08:41 hmmmm and they're all real classes 08:41 VanessaE whatchya studying? 08:42 hmmmm i needed to overload my schedule in order to fit what i need to graduate on time 08:42 hmmmm math 08:42 hmmmm and CS 08:42 VanessaE hoo boy. 08:42 hmmmm i should've dropped CS major down to a minor while i had the chance and i wouldn't be so crunched like this 08:42 hmmmm i only get a degree for one 08:42 VanessaE no chance of changing your mind? 08:43 hmmmm well there's no reason to do that now, it's too late 08:44 VanessaE well I hope you do well :) 08:44 hmmmm thanks 08:44 VanessaE my college days are long behind me now 08:44 hmmmm i can't wait to graduate so i can continue on with my life, but chances are that i won't have any free time for minetest anymore 08:44 VanessaE stopped at an AA, didn't see much need to go past that given the cost and the job market at the time 08:44 hmmmm that's scary 08:45 hmmmm yea, it's fine as long as you can get the job you want 08:45 VanessaE well you may find some time here and there, just don't focus too much on that which is not important (i.e. yourself, family, these are what truly matter) 08:45 hmmmm my parents want me to go on to get my masters degree and eventually a phd, but for what... i don't want to be a professor.. a BS is sufficient for what i want 08:47 VanessaE I don't see much need in going after a PhD unless you've got some high-end career in mind, and even then 08:48 VanessaE I've always believed that "book smarts" aren't nearly as valuable as real-life experiences in the fields you're targeting 08:48 VanessaE (but still important, to a degree, of course) 08:48 hmmmm software development? of course 08:48 hmmmm same with any engineering discipline though 08:48 VanessaE yeah 08:48 hmmmm experience is king here 08:49 VanessaE I mean, you need to learn the math, logic, etc. skills, but what good is knowing how to program in COBOL if your target runs Java? 08:49 VanessaE (contrived examples ftw :) ) 08:50 VanessaE regarding the stream locking up... is there some file handle you have to close after writing that stream? 08:51 VanessaE I remember in the old days if you wanted to redirect stdio, you could only open one stream destination at a time, forgetting to open:read/write:close would invariably end up causing weird results, like trying to read from stdout or so. 08:52 hmmmm experience probably works best with book smarts... if you're a smartie pants who'd learn from their mistakes quickly, it totally enhances the effect. you would learn Java in a split 08:52 hmmmm it's all a balancing act i say 08:52 VanessaE true 08:52 hmmmm no, no file handle i need to close 08:52 hmmmm verbosestream is used elsewhere a lot and it never had any effect 08:52 VanessaE what about some special magic number? 08:52 hmmmm it's just my code that writes to it that does that 08:53 hmmmm probably not 08:53 VanessaE something you have to write to say "end of this message" or so 08:53 VanessaE hm 08:53 hmmmm i keep thinking maybe it's converting groupid to some weird type or something, or maybe it's a bug in my libstdc++ 08:53 VanessaE a bug? perhaps, but then it should affect all other equivalent uses of that stream 08:54 hmmmm i'm honestly clueless 08:54 VanessaE I'd favor the bad conversion hypothesis first 08:54 hmmmm and like you just showed me, you don't seem to suffer from the bug like i do 08:54 VanessaE true 08:54 hmmmm so i must be doing some sort of undefined behavior..? *shrug* 08:55 hmmmm *shutters* 08:55 VanessaE wait, 08:55 VanessaE aren'y you on windows? 08:55 VanessaE aren't* 08:55 hmmmm nope 08:55 VanessaE oh ok 08:55 hmmmm why does everybody think i'm on windows 08:55 hmmmm you celeron and someone else 08:55 VanessaE I was about to say, where did I get that from then? 08:55 VanessaE hrm. 08:56 hmmmm well if it's not bugging the rest of the population who uses minetest, i guess it doesn't matter too much 08:56 VanessaE what DO you run then? maybe it indeed is libc bug or so.. 08:56 hmmmm FreeBSD 08:56 hmmmm 9.1-RC3 08:56 VanessaE wow, 9.1 now? I haven't touched FBSD since...4.3 I think 08:56 hmmmm that's ancient... probably like 2002 or so 08:56 kaeza hmmmm, does it print b->name? 08:57 hmmmm yep 08:57 VanessaE late 90's I think actually. 08:57 hmmmm it stops when it goes to print b->groupid 08:57 hmmmm you know, i should play around with it more and try different strings 08:57 hmmmm this isn't something i should be doing at 4am though 08:57 VanessaE certainly not 08:57 hmmmm no i should be gone to bed right now 08:57 hmmmm that settles it, i'm going 08:57 VanessaE ditto 08:57 hmmmm see you tomorrow 08:57 VanessaE and in fact I'm heading off now. 08:58 VanessaE good night :) 08:58 VanessaE oh, 08:58 hmmmm 'night 08:58 hmmmm what 08:58 VanessaE and consider this: 08:58 kaeza hmmmm, on some distros, printing a non null-terminated string may hang the program instead of raising SIGSEGV sometimes 08:58 VanessaE if you're anything like me, you're gonna churn on this until you fall asleep, and the solution will "develop" in the middle of some obscure dream 08:58 hmmmm kaeza, i sorta figured it might be some unprintable character too 08:58 VanessaE so who knows, you might wake up with an answer 08:58 hmmmm haha, yea vanessa 08:58 hmmmm in reality i doubt i'm going to come up with anything until i experiment 08:59 VanessaE wait a minute 08:59 hmmmm i think kaeza is right, if anything, there's some way some unprintable character snuck into my string literal 08:59 VanessaE what about the simplicity of Xon/xoff? 08:59 hmmmm hmm? 08:59 VanessaE speaking of nonprintables 08:59 hmmmm what's that 08:59 VanessaE you know, the old fashioned Ctrl-S/Ctrl-Q 08:59 hmmmm never used it 09:00 VanessaE those still work afaik in most terminals. 09:00 VanessaE *shrug* it's worth a look anyway 09:00 hmmmm i type in an IDE 09:00 hmmmm i'l figure it out i'm sure 09:00 hmmmm i figure everything out eventually 09:00 VanessaE nono I mean something that is, like you figured, getting badly converted 09:00 hmmmm could be.. 09:00 VanessaE you spam the terminal with garbage, you get weird results. maybe the same is true for this tream 09:00 VanessaE stream* 09:01 kaeza VanessaE, so you mean a ^S char is sliping into the term output? 09:02 kaeza ah nvm 09:02 VanessaE kaeza: I'm thinking it's getting in there among some other gobbledygook from a conversion error like hmmmm was thinking. 09:02 VanessaE anyway, I'm off to bed. 09:02 VanessaE night :-) 09:02 kaeza good night V 10:21 meldrian cya 11:41 celeron55 http://manu.sporny.org/2013/drm-in-html5/ 13:10 troller http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=66952 13:23 kaeza hi all 13:31 PilzAdam Hello everyone! 14:08 NekoGloop mornin' 14:23 kaeza hey Neko :3 it's rare to see you this early 14:34 NekoGloop I'm usually busy doing something 15:03 jojoa1997 hi all 15:19 NekoGloop Meow 15:23 Traxie21 zomg 15:24 Traxie21 Im on IRC with a kindle keyboard 15:24 Traxie21 didnt even know it could do that :D 15:25 NekoGloop Congratulations 15:25 NekoGloop Do you want a punch in the face, or a kitten? 15:26 Traxie21 how about a color screen? 15:26 NekoGloop Nope, got none of them. 15:26 Traxie21 it takes forever to type with this and the screen is black and white 15:26 Traxie21 but IRC works 15:27 NekoGloop I'm using a TV from the 80's as my computer monitor. 15:27 NekoGloop ;-) 15:27 Traxie21 still better than a kindle :P 15:27 Traxie21 look it up 15:28 Traxie21 I have the non-touchscreen variety 15:29 Traxie21 brb 15:33 * Traxie21 tries to tell if tabs are green or blue... no success. 15:33 NekoGloop One should be darker than the other 15:34 Traxie21 yeah... but its real hard to tell when you're sitting on the toilet in semi-darkness 15:34 NekoGloop TMI. 15:35 Traxie21 XD 15:35 Traxie21 turns light on 15:37 VanessaE damn it cover yourself at least. 15:39 Traxie21 ohi vanessa 15:39 VanessaE hi 15:40 Traxie21 Sorry I havent been on your server lately 15:40 VanessaE it's kay 15:40 VanessaE okay* 15:41 Traxie21 you know the tpr mod? For the moment at least, jordan4's version is better 15:41 Traxie21 you might want to ue that 15:42 VanessaE I'll consider it 15:43 Traxie21 But I'm working on a new version that will be more configurable in my ServerExtended mod 15:44 Traxie21 modding is fun, even if you suck at being logical 15:45 hmmmm i just looked and my debug.txt has a lot of text after it, mousepad just stops reading after it hits an 0x02 15:45 hmmmm why did it write an 0x02 0x0a... 15:45 hmmmm i bet that if i cast it to an int or something it'll work, watch this 15:47 hmmmm pf.. well that worked, but i have no idea why 15:47 Traxie21 what. 15:47 hmmmm ahhhh... 15:47 hmmmm it's a signed 8 15:48 hmmmm C++ is too smart for its own good, trying to not treat it like a number 15:48 Traxie21 its so hard to understand people who know what they're doing 15:48 hmmmm problem solved 15:48 hmmmm that's a good way to start off a morning, solving a bug 8) 15:48 hmmmm thanks for the motivation vanessa 15:48 VanessaE well I was close at least 15:48 VanessaE :-) 15:48 VanessaE may not have been xoff but it was at least a control code ;) 15:49 VanessaE 0x02..."Start of Text" 15:49 hmmmm so i guess everybody else uses text editors that don't stop after reading control characters 15:49 VanessaE ironic that mousepad should treat that as "end". 15:49 hmmmm why is why nobody complained 15:50 hmmmm which is why 15:51 VanessaE see? proof that just talking about something can help solve the issue ;) 15:51 VanessaE so celeron55 is full of shit :D 15:51 hmmmm well what really helped was looking 15:52 VanessaE I'm kidding :) 15:52 hmmmm also i forgot i made groupid an s8 15:52 hmmmm _whoops_ 15:52 VanessaE oops :) 15:53 hmmmm wow! 15:53 VanessaE ? 15:53 hmmmm that means at this point in time, all of my stuff is bug-free 15:53 hmmmm time to start working on EmergeManager 15:53 VanessaE oh boy. 15:54 Jordach hmmmm, hmm, sounds like a godly idea 15:54 VanessaE and I get to be the guinea pig I bet ;) 15:54 Jordach VanessaE, managed to load your serv. with 0fps 15:54 VanessaE Jordach: heh 15:54 Jordach but then it died 15:54 VanessaE yeah, I read. crashed and burned :) 15:56 Jordach VanessaE, single player with latest git, 40-45fps 15:56 * VanessaE grumbles incoherently about her failed X10 (the remote lighting control system) install. 15:56 * Jordach slaps VanessaE 15:56 VanessaE ow. 15:56 Jordach no complaining, thats my job 15:57 VanessaE phh 15:57 VanessaE pff 15:57 Jordach cmon, im the grumpy bastard half the time 15:58 Jordach VanessaE, so, you made vessels, yet hdx has no support for it :P 15:58 VanessaE sure it has. 15:59 Jordach 256x, nope 15:59 VanessaE oh I know why 15:59 VanessaE I forgot to update the inventory vs. weild images. 15:59 VanessaE wield* 15:59 VanessaE maybe some other time 16:00 NekoGloop So when do we get a 0.4.5? 16:00 Jordach NEVER. 16:00 celeron55 http://paste.dy.fi/sHv 16:00 celeron55 i should implement a bot on this channel to handle all these 16:00 celeron55 so if anyone is interested in answering this noob, i will give the e-mail 16:00 Jordach when c55 wants a bot, oh boy trouble 16:01 NekoGloop The problem is that you don't tell minetest to try to run from a folder you don't have permission to edit. 16:01 celeron55 that is, he is running it directly from a zip or something? 16:01 VanessaE celeron55: apparently a LOT of people do that 16:01 celeron55 well somebody else can explain anyways 16:02 celeron55 or is there a page to link to 16:02 VanessaE I've seen quite a few people have errors due to that. 16:03 kaeza *windows users* 16:03 celeron55 answered with 7 words, hopefully i don't hear back 16:03 VanessaE and those words were....? 16:04 kaeza inb4 slap from Jordach 16:04 NekoGloop "You stupid ass n00b, I don't care" 16:04 celeron55 umm... something describing what to do 16:04 VanessaE hah 16:04 celeron55 apparently my sent box doesn't work 16:05 PilzAdam celeron55, http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=4505 16:06 celeron55 maybe i should link that ten times from the download page 16:06 kaeza I find it funny how he used 13375p33k 16:06 NekoGloop why, he doesn't say how he fixed it. 16:06 celeron55 ...or somebody could write proper error handling to world creation so that it would give a hint to unzip the thing if it goes wrong 16:07 NekoGloop "Minetest cannot run from a .zip archive. Also, don't put stupid characters in folder names." 16:07 VanessaE why not use a "proper" installed/installshield thingamajig for win builds? 16:07 VanessaE installer* 16:08 * NekoGloop puts a kitten on Calinou's head 16:08 Jordach do feel free to ask me questions: http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=66997#p66997 16:08 kaeza VanessaE, I can contribute a script for Inno Setup 16:08 Jordach im bored as hell 16:08 VanessaE even if all it does is the same damn thing as the user does now -- a lot of win users don't understand the concept of unzipping a file, let alone what it means to "run the executable". 16:08 Jordach VanessaE, hmm 16:09 Jordach after installing it drops two shortcuts, one for installing mods, and the other for launching the game 16:09 kaeza http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=4245 16:09 PilzAdam Jordach, answer me! (see forum) 16:09 Calinou since when windows users know how to use windows :-D 16:09 VanessaE in other words, remember your audience: 90% of them are blithering idiots :D 16:10 Jordach VanessaE, same goes for school exams, think of the examiner as an idiot 16:11 * Jordach hears the iPad bleep to the sound of a new email 16:11 Jordach oh great 16:11 Jordach its gunna be all night! 16:11 VanessaE Jordach: to that end, I was lucky in school. Most of my instructors were quite intelligent. 16:12 VanessaE there were a couple of real gems, to be sure, but lack of intelligence wasn't the problem there. 16:12 kaeza okay, nvm 16:12 Jordach VanessaE, thing is WE know theyre smart, but still treat them as DUMB 16:12 * Jordach loves the new posting system on the forum, much faster :D 16:12 VanessaE Calinou: with exceptions, since when did Windows users even *know* they were running windows at all 16:13 Jordach VanessaE, boot screen silly 16:13 VanessaE that apparently isn't enough for some people, Jordach 16:13 Jordach oh yes, the deaf, dumb and blind 16:13 Jordach (computer wise) 16:14 PilzAdam I frequently hear people saying they use "Microsoft"... 16:14 Jordach PilzAdam, updated 16:14 VanessaE my worst pet peeve with computer users is when they still refer to the PC itself as a 'hard drive' or something. 16:16 NekoGloop My worst pet peeve is when someone buys a new monitor to upgrade their graphics capability 16:16 NekoGloop it's like, wtf. the pc itself needs upgrading then. 16:16 Jordach NekoGloop, the world is a moron 16:17 VanessaE NekoGloop: haha 16:18 VanessaE like I said, 90% of computer users out there, well maybe more like 60-70%, are just blithering idiots and refuse to learn how to properly and effectively use their machines. 16:18 VanessaE (and if you can't be bothered...get an ipad or something) 16:18 babyface1031 hi kaeza :) 16:18 VanessaE (Apple et.al have nice, comfortable walled gardens for you to play in) 16:19 * PilzAdam doesnt like apple 16:19 Jordach VanessaE, i use a iPad for entertainment# 16:19 kaeza hey face 16:19 * NekoGloop puts an apple on Adam's head 16:19 Jordach (and porn, /me loves .mp4 video) 16:19 VanessaE Jordach: but you still have a PC top 16:19 VanessaE that's the difference 16:19 VanessaE you know to use the right tool for the job 16:19 * PilzAdam bites the apple an places it on a laptop 16:19 PilzAdam that makes $600 16:19 Jordach there. an apple laptop. 16:19 VanessaE lol 16:20 PilzAdam this is how apple products are mad 16:20 PilzAdam *made 16:20 NekoGloop You forgot the lock and chains 16:21 Jordach NekoGloop, you mean the iron ingot to craft with the laptop? 16:22 VanessaE Jordach: nonono you have to craft ingots into chains *first*, then craft those with the laptop 16:22 NekoGloop minetest.register_craft({type="shapeless",recipe={"default:apple","pc:laptop","default:steel_ingot", "glooptest:chainlink"},output="pc:macbook"}) 16:22 VanessaE Calinou: I've been doing some thinking - is there a particular reason we don't use a saw to cut up blocks into stairs/slabs/etc the way it's done in MC? 16:23 VanessaE it occurs to me the sheer number of recipes needed for stairs now may be getting a little stifling. 16:23 NekoGloop VanessaE, you mean redpower? 16:23 VanessaE NekoGloop: I don't know which mod provides the feature - I saw it in a video yesterday. 16:23 VanessaE craft saw + material in the right pattern -> slab 16:23 VanessaE (presumably stairs, microblocks also) 16:24 NekoGloop no 16:24 Calinou MC doesn't use saws to make stairs/slabs 16:24 Calinou first one to code "smart" microblock placing (that can be merged to make stuff of all sorts) gets nobel prize 16:24 VanessaE now you're gonna force me to find the video :-) 16:24 NekoGloop you cut the block into two slabs, then cut a slab into two slab strips (stairsplus panels), then place the slab and the slab strip in the same block space to make a stair. 16:25 celeron55 http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology/For-40-Years-This-Russian-Family-Was-Cut-Off-From-Human-Contact-Unaware-of-World-War-II-188843001.html 16:25 PilzAdam Calinou, something like pass the exact pointed position on the node to Lua functions 16:25 Calinou yes, that's required 16:28 VanessaE hrm, I guess it was redpower then. come to think of it, the saw was kinda bluish in color.. 16:28 NekoGloop Sapphire Handsaw? 16:28 VanessaE still, why don't we do that? wouldn't that make for fewer potential recipe collisions? 16:29 VanessaE NekoGloop: don't remember - it was light blue, almost cyan 16:29 Calinou if it's blue, then it's an Intel® Saw(tm) 16:29 Calinou 16:29 NekoGloop that would be the Diamond Handsaw then. 16:29 VanessaE saw it in some random video yesterday, one of those suggested videos off of something else I'd watched. 16:29 markveidemanis Hi! 16:30 Calinou hi marktraceur 16:30 Calinou markveidemanis* 16:30 Calinou marktraceur: sorry :( 16:30 VanessaE hi mark 16:30 NekoGloop merk 16:30 Calinou merktraceur much 16:30 markveidemanis stop with the typos 16:30 Calinou step with the types 16:30 markveidemanis and 1 thing... 16:31 markveidemanis TAB DOES NOT WORK 16:31 markveidemanis :D 16:31 VanessaE markveidemanis: works for me. 16:31 VanessaE mark --> markveidemanis --> --> marktraceur 16:31 markveidemanis marktraceur: works for me <==ends up like that 16:31 markveidemanis exactly... 16:31 NekoGloop Press tab twice then 16:31 VanessaE exactly what I said. 16:31 markveidemanis but the other way round :D 16:32 VanessaE tabbing may allow you to cycle through possible compltions 16:32 NekoGloop http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYc6Eyx3Hd0 16:32 VanessaE completions* 16:32 Jordach so it fucking does 16:32 marktraceur ....morning to all of you, too 16:32 * NekoGloop puts a kitten on marktraceur's head 16:33 markveidemanis not funny anymore 16:33 NekoGloop what isn't? 16:33 markveidemanis VanessaE places a kitten on Jordach's head 16:33 markveidemanis remember? 16:33 VanessaE Calinou, celeron55.. so might I suggest at some point in the future that the recipes for slabs et.al be switched to something like what's used in redpower? It's more logical and leaves more of the crafting space open 16:33 * VanessaE takes the incorrectly-placed kitten and puts it back on markveidemanis's head 16:34 markveidemanis Haha 16:34 Calinou what does redpower do? I almost never played with that mod... 16:34 Calinou so you craft a saw, and by clicking on blocks, it converts them to stairs/slabs? 16:34 Calinou or... does it do something else? 16:35 VanessaE Calinou: you craft a saw, then craft that with blocks 16:35 VanessaE http://nemesis.evalq.net/RedPower2/recipes.html 16:35 Calinou thanks 16:35 VanessaE somewhere on here anyway :-) 16:36 VanessaE "Cutting Recipes" 16:36 VanessaE near the bottom 16:36 NekoGloop Calinou: that's not even the main purpose of the mod :D 16:37 VanessaE yeah, the main purpose is covered mostly by mesecons + digilines :-)\ 16:37 VanessaE + technic 16:37 NekoGloop not really. 16:37 Calinou good idea, but that's a lot of work, I'd have to redo all the recipes :P 16:37 NekoGloop mesecons can't go up walls 16:37 Calinou echo "Add saws" > TODO.txt 16:37 Calinou oops 16:37 VanessaE NekoGloop: yes they can 16:37 Calinou echo "Add saws" >> TODO.txt 16:37 Calinou better :-p 16:37 NekoGloop and we can't reduce tool wear in a recipe yet. 16:37 Jordach VanessaE, does hdx support lights+ 16:37 VanessaE just not horizontally 16:38 VanessaE Jordach: no 16:38 Jordach aw 16:38 Jordach fix ot 16:38 Jordach it 16:38 VanessaE but it would be trivial to support 16:38 VanessaE just haven't thought about it 16:39 Jordach its _one_ textures 16:39 VanessaE Calinou: come to think of it, maybe forget this idea. 16:39 Calinou this idea would simplify things a lot, so why not do it 16:39 VanessaE Calinou: well looking at these other recipes./. 16:40 NekoGloop why? 16:40 VanessaE you'd have to duplicate the rest of the cutting recipes just to stay even with that mod, which I doubt you want to do 16:41 Jordach VanessaE, can i has copy of your carts mod? 16:41 VanessaE (and some of these don't make a lot of sense) 16:41 Jordach (the server one) 16:41 Calinou Jeija: 3D formspecs pl0x 16:41 Calinou :> 16:41 VanessaE Jordach: that's pilzadam's, and it's in my game pack: http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/vanessa_game.tar.bz2 16:41 NekoGloop http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ib0TS143oM nya 16:41 * Jordach justs wants the stand alone mod 16:42 VanessaE Jordach: https://github.com/PilzAdam/carts 16:42 PilzAdam Jordach, http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=2451 16:43 VanessaE or do there. 16:43 Calinou .tar.bz2? count me in 16:43 VanessaE go* 16:43 * Calinou extracts it 16:43 PilzAdam Jordach, if you like carts, you may also like this: http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=4016 16:43 Calinou ...extracting... 16:43 * Calinou is still extracting... 16:43 * Calinou bluescreens 16:43 Jordach lol 16:43 VanessaE lol 16:43 Calinou combo-lol 16:43 NekoGloop lol 16:43 Jordach dont you mean kernel panic? 16:43 Jordach its having a fucking heart attack! 16:43 NekoGloop No, Jordach, he has joined us. 16:44 Calinou nope! extracting a .tar.bz2 induces 10% chance to bluescreen regardless of OS (except OS X: this is why people like apple) 16:44 * NekoGloop casts Extract .tar.bz2! 16:44 * Calinou bluescreens again! 16:44 Calinou so unlucky 16:44 * NekoGloop is inflicted with Bluescreen! 16:44 * Jordach sits there unaffected since I use WinRAR 16:44 Jordach :> 16:44 * VanessaE paints NekoGloop's screen red, just because. 16:45 * NekoGloop is now infected with Redscreen! 16:45 NekoGloop Boot Manager error! 16:45 Calinou lol, winrar 16:45 NekoGloop lol, 7zip 16:45 markveidemanis BEEP 16:46 Doc22 ahh, getting more into world management and realizing the stress of working with borders between negative and positive dimensions 16:46 Calinou 7 zip is much faster than winrar, and is FOSS 16:46 * Jordach extracts by the power of GREYSKULL!!! 16:46 VanessaE Calinou: so you're going to change your recipes to match this? (I expect not, it would be a lot of work) 16:46 markveidemanis who wants to build on my server? 16:46 Doc22 i do but i dont have that much time... 16:46 VanessaE build on mine instead :-) 16:46 * PilzAdam doesnt use any extract programm; hes doing it himself 16:47 markveidemanis Mine is faster, admit it:D 16:47 VanessaE apropos http://xkcd.com/378/ 16:47 VanessaE PilzAdam: ^^^ 16:47 Calinou VanessaE: meh, no 16:47 Doc22 yeah i would... 16:47 Doc22 but unfortunately, I dont have much time... 16:47 PilzAdam VanessaE, that was in my mind when i wrote it :-) 16:47 markveidemanis Noooooo 16:49 rubenwardy Hi all 16:49 NekoGloop http://xkcd.com/369/ 16:50 * Doc22 solves problem of negative/positive border in his game 16:50 Doc22 hi rubenwardy 16:50 VanessaE Calinou: too bad. I was gonna change my homedecor recipes (lighting slabs) to follow if you did :-) 16:50 Doc22 rubenwardy I tried crafting carrot cake mix with my mod's carrots and it didnt work 16:51 Doc22 I looked at the code to find recipe 16:51 Jordach VanessaE, Calinou: linux in a nutshell: http://xkcd.com/619/ 16:51 Calinou old news 16:51 VanessaE heh 16:51 Doc22 llol 16:51 Calinou flash ftl 16:52 Doc22 yeah 16:52 * Calinou doesn't have 4096 CPUs though 16:52 Doc22 me neither 16:52 Calinou only 8 threads :'( 16:52 Doc22 i have 4 threads 16:52 Doc22 D: 16:52 Doc22 but it never gets above 20% 8-) 16:52 VanessaE 6 cores here, however many threads that translates to 16:52 Calinou Doc22: don't you have an i7-3930K or so? 16:52 Doc22 more powa', less threads 16:52 Calinou if so you have 12 threads 16:52 Doc22 and i have only the 3820? 16:52 Doc22 odk 16:52 Calinou VanessaE: 6 threads, AMD CPUs have mutualized cores, no hyperthreading 16:52 Doc22 idk* 16:52 VanessaE Calinou: as I expected. 16:53 Doc22 but i dont have more than 4 threads i know that... 16:53 Calinou 3820 is 4 cores. 8 threads since you probably have hyperthreading on (on by default) 16:53 Doc22 yeah 16:53 Calinou contrary to what its name might tell, it's sandy bridge, not ivy bridge. (intel you liar D:) 16:53 Calinou sandy bridge-E to be correct 16:53 VanessaE this processor has that somewhat worthless turbo feature too - turns off 3 cores and cranks the other three up by 25% or something, if the CPU detects that it would be faster or something 16:53 Doc22 i notice that in the windows task manager it shows 8 cpus and i thought that was wierd 16:53 Calinou turbo is quite useful 16:53 Doc22 mine is sandy bridge-e 16:53 Calinou 3.8ghz when one core is used here, 3.5 when all cores are used and CPU is cool enough 16:54 Calinou 3.4 being base freq 16:54 Doc22 mine is nice and cool 16:54 VanessaE Calinou: yeah, minetestserver can spin at 100% CPU that much more efficiently when it locks down ;-) 16:54 Doc22 i got a 240mm radiator 16:54 Calinou mine is overclockable, but I never do that :P 16:54 Doc22 mine also 16:54 Doc22 but i dont use it 16:54 Calinou 240mm? O_o 16:54 Doc22 why would i need to 16:54 Calinou biggest I've seen was 140mm.. 16:54 Jordach mine is not even overclocked at 3.2ghz 16:54 Doc22 it never gets above 20% 16:54 Doc22 and yes i have a 240mm radiator 16:54 Doc22 it wouldnt fit in the case with the fans 16:55 Calinou if I buy overclockable CPUs, it's mostly just in case, and because of the whole "i'm owner of my hardware" thing 16:55 Doc22 so i mounted all the other fans blowing in 16:55 Calinou also, better chipset :P 16:55 Doc22 so the air goes out through the radiator 16:55 Doc22 does a good job :) 16:55 Doc22 never overheats 16:55 Doc22 (of course i still havent gotten it anywhere near 100%) 16:56 Calinou if you overheat when you CPU is 100% used, your cooling solution is wrong 16:59 Doc22 yeah 16:59 Doc22 mine should never overheat 16:59 Doc22 unless I decide to overclock it 16:59 Doc22 but I don't have to worry about it even approaching 100% 16:59 Doc22 :) 17:00 Doc22 and I set the pump on "performance mode" as opposed to "quiet" mode 17:00 Doc22 not that much difference in noise 17:00 Doc22 so what the hech 17:00 Doc22 heck 17:00 markveidemanis Ok... 17:00 Doc22 lol I see how oil cooled computers would be good 17:01 Doc22 ya know the ones that are in a tank of oil? 17:01 markveidemanis ... 17:01 Doc22 but this is: 17:01 Doc22 a) easier to maintain 17:01 markveidemanis spam:) 17:01 Doc22 b) guaranteed no oil on my mom's carpet 17:01 markveidemanis 15 messages 17:01 Doc22 c) I CAN FIDDLE WITH THE STUFF WITH NO OIL ON MAH HANDS!!! 17:02 Doc22 lol i AM a spammer arent i 17:02 Doc22 but not on purpose :) 17:02 VanessaE no, just a jabberjaw :) 17:02 markveidemanis haha 17:02 rubenwardy Doc22: https://github.com/rubenwardy/food/blob/master/support.lua#L106 17:02 rubenwardy it should work 17:02 markveidemanis yap...yap... 17:02 Doc22 made a change rubenwardy? 17:02 rubenwardy do you have farming plus installed? 17:02 rubenwardy no, it was in previous code 17:02 Doc22 yeah its on minetest.org:30004 17:03 Doc22 then again the recipes might be messed up there 17:03 Doc22 like with ufo mod. 17:03 rubenwardy if farming plus is installed, then it takes the carrot from that 17:03 markveidemanis ALL servers are on minetest.org atm:D 17:05 * Doc22 realises that my code for regions between negative and positive was fine... 17:05 Doc22 just took time to realise that... 17:05 kaeza rubenwardy, interested? http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=67020#p67020 17:05 Doc22 and rubenwardy I made my mod compatible with pilzadam 17:05 Doc22 pilzadam's farming mod* 17:05 sokomine if you're talking about cpus: how much impact does it have on mt? i'd really like to be able to turn far on more often. there are so many nice trees to look at :-) but i think it's the onboard gpu that's too slow for that 17:05 Doc22 trigger happy pinky 17:05 Doc22 X( 17:06 sokomine don't want an extra card, though (would just consume more power while idle) 17:06 Doc22 rubenwardy could you make it so that food:carrot can use either my mod's carrot or pilzadam's mod's carrot? 17:06 sokomine could both mods perhaps provide the same carrot if the other mod is installed? :-) 17:06 Doc22 (assuming that it discludes mine when farming-plus is installed) 17:07 Doc22 but I like my mod's texture D: 17:07 sokomine there are already at least two strawberries (bushes and farming from pilzadam). maybe they're diffrent breeds 17:07 Doc22 i guess... 17:07 rubenwardy sokomine: they should, for programming etique 17:07 Doc22 rubenwardy can you just make it support both types of carrots at once? 17:07 rubenwardy they could do this: https://github.com/rubenwardy/food/blob/master/support.lua#L19 17:07 rubenwardy to check if other is installed 17:08 rubenwardy Doc22: that would require another craft recipe, and would mess up my structure 17:08 Doc22 yeah 17:08 Doc22 all right 17:09 sokomine you could use a variable to hold the actual carrot name 17:09 Doc22 pilzadam: do you want to make our farming mods compatible so that they drop one type of carrot instead of two? 17:09 Doc22 ie. my mod drops the same node of carrot as yours does 17:10 Doc22 rubenwardy another solution would be a line of code like this: 17:10 Doc22 register_alias 17:10 sokomine another point: is there really no way to save the block data the client receives? it looks like there is a section in the client where it receives chunk data? 17:10 PilzAdam do you use GitHub? 17:10 Doc22 yeah, but I al still a learnder 17:10 Doc22 learner 17:10 sokomine oh yes, if your mods where compatible, that would be nice 17:10 Doc22 I can use it for my projects 17:10 Doc22 i just havent put them on yet 17:11 Doc22 so you up for it? 17:11 kaeza ok this guy should just STFU and go play Portal 2: http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=66962#p66962 17:11 * kaeza is a bit bitchy today 17:11 kaeza sowwy :/ 17:11 PilzAdam Doc22, make a pull request for that 17:12 Doc22 umm... I am kinda new to gits, but I will try to find out what that means :P 17:12 Doc22 lol kaeza 17:12 * rubenwardy is now Stumble!-ing 17:13 rubenwardy http://www.stumbleupon.com/ 17:13 Doc22 ok google search taught me what a pull request is 17:14 Doc22 I will have to do that later I am a bit busy 17:19 * marktraceur waves 17:19 marktraceur Got my minetest merch yesterday 17:19 marktraceur Wearing the shirt now :) 17:19 marktraceur The mug is somewhere here in the WMF offices....but I'm not sure where exactly. 17:20 Doc22 minetest shirt? :D 17:20 marktraceur Yup! 17:20 rubenwardy send a photo in, so I can put it up :D 17:20 marktraceur Doc22: Sadly there was some copyright issue. 17:21 marktraceur rubenwardy: Are you trying to smooth things over with the Cafepress people? 17:21 rubenwardy no, I am busy 17:21 marktraceur Hm. 17:23 Calinou marktraceur: the mug was not notable 17:23 Calinou that's why they deleted it 17:23 marktraceur Calinou: :) 17:23 rubenwardy no, it had the logo on it 17:23 marktraceur Calinou: It's not NPOV, it promotes coffee 17:24 rubenwardy only one product: http://www.cafepress.com/sk/minetest 17:27 marktraceur *nod* 17:28 marktraceur rubenwardy: You really need to put the CC-BY-SA notice on it and get the stuff back up. 17:28 rubenwardy lol http://mashable.com/2013/01/28/anonymous-hacks-asteroids-nyan-cat/ 17:29 thexyz marktraceur: photo! 17:29 rubenwardy CC BY SA icons? 17:31 marktraceur thexyz: Perhaps tonight! 17:31 kaeza Calinou, http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=67020#p67020 17:33 Doc22 marktraceur how so? 17:34 marktraceur Doc22: The logo is CCBYSA, and neither clause of that license was satisfied by the designs we had up 17:35 Doc22 ahhhhh 17:35 Doc22 oh well 17:35 marktraceur Yet another lesson about licensing. 17:37 Doc22 WHY DO I TALK SO MUCH 17:37 thexyz [unrelated] what's the best FS for SD card (64gb one)? 17:38 Doc22 i have absolutely no idea.... 17:39 thexyz ext4 doesn't fucking work with my cm10.1 17:39 thexyz "freedom" 17:39 thexyz "open-source" 17:39 rubenwardy http://www.cafepress.com/mf/76069199/need-some-coffee_tshirt 17:40 OldCoder I am on errands but will return 17:42 Doc22 got to go everyone 17:44 rubenwardy http://www.cafepress.com/mf/76069299/i-heart-minetest_tshirt 17:48 Calinou kaeza: I don't use windows :P 17:48 rubenwardy My letter to cafepress: 17:48 rubenwardy http://pastebin.com/UKpU4URn 17:48 rubenwardy (ping: celeron55) 17:49 kaeza Calinou, ah sorry. thought you did :P 18:03 LunaVorax Hi! 18:32 rotor112 hi 18:34 marktraceur rotor112: Hi! 18:34 marktraceur rotor112: What's up? 18:34 rotor112 nothing at the moment 18:36 rotor112 hi 18:37 rotor112 where can I find the definition of "plantlike" in the source code? 18:37 Calinou grep -rl "plantlike" . 18:37 Calinou ^ in minetest source folder 18:38 rotor112 ok, thanks 18:38 VanessaE l? 18:38 Calinou search in files 18:38 VanessaE files with matches, got it 18:38 Calinou or returns file names instead of content, afaik 18:39 sapier grep has a -r option? 18:40 Calinou recursive 18:40 Calinou yes 18:40 marktraceur I like -rin 18:40 sapier :-) interesting i use fgrep for those cases 18:41 marktraceur Also useful, git grep 18:45 thexyz ssl on; 18:45 thexyz ssl_certificate /etc/nginx/conf/ssl-unified.crt; 18:45 thexyz woops 18:45 thexyz wrong hole 18:47 Jordach thexyz, lol 18:47 rotor112 I found it: content_mapblock.cpp 18:48 rotor112 line727 18:48 rotor112 you could add WHEATLIKE 18:49 Calinou use nodeboxes 8) 18:49 Calinou you can make WHATEVERTHEFUCKYOUWANTLIKE 18:49 Calinou (but no "slopes") 18:49 rotor112 there you can 18:49 marktraceur drawtype: 'penislike' 18:49 marktraceur Boy that's just inviting hilarity. 18:51 rotor112 I haven't seen Zeg9 at his server for a long time 18:51 Jordach Calinou, be fair, farming looks like shit with plantlike 18:52 * Jordach starts minetest with a truckload of mods 18:52 Jordach mem usage @ 500mb 18:53 rotor112 ok 18:53 marktraceur john_minetest: Yeah, because there aren't immature players already. 18:53 * john_minetest puts a kitten on marktraceur's head ;) 18:54 VanessaE as for plantlike, why not just use four 2-d nodeboxes to make the minecraft equivalent? 18:54 rotor112 -0.5 -0.5 -2.5 0.5 0.5 -2.5 18:54 VanessaE exactly 18:54 VanessaE well not quite 18:54 Calinou Jordach: +1 18:54 Calinou we could use nodeboxes to make wheat look like minecraft wheat :P 18:54 rotor112 2d nodboxes doesn't work yet 18:54 Calinou mem usage @ 500mb 18:55 VanessaE {-0.5, -0.5, -0.3, 0.5, 0.5, -0.3} 18:55 Jordach Calinou, thats with mesecons, bobblocks, and more 18:55 Calinou 4.1% of all my ram 18:55 VanessaE rotor112: yes they do, I've used them before. 18:55 Jordach Calinou, also with VanessaE's HDX 18:55 Calinou rotor112: make them infinitely thin and it'll work 18:55 rotor112 I tried it and it didn't work 18:55 VanessaE rotor112: see Homedecor's doors. 18:55 rotor112 the 2d box 18:56 rotor112 ok 18:56 VanessaE infinitely thin nodeboxes are used there to good effect. 18:56 Calinou worksforme 18:56 VanessaE {-0.5, -0.5, -0.3, 0.5, 0.5, -0.3} 18:56 VanessaE {-0.5, -0.5, 0.3, 0.5, 0.5, 0.3} 18:56 VanessaE {-0.3, -0.5, -0.5, -0.3, 0.5, 0.5} 18:56 VanessaE {0.3, -0.5, -0.5, 0.3, 0.5, 0.5} 18:57 VanessaE there. Minecraft plantlike drawtype as nodeboxes. 18:57 Jordach VanessaE, christ -- HDX looks really "real" 18:57 VanessaE though my dimensions are probably off by a tad. 18:57 PilzAdam nodebox channel flodding? 18:57 rotor112 why not 2.5? 18:57 VanessaE Jordach: of course it does. 18:57 Calinou 0.3 is off yeah 18:57 VanessaE rotor112: because the range is -0.5 to +0.5 18:57 Calinou MC wheat = 4 planes off by 2 pixels (1/8 of a block) 18:57 VanessaE Calinou: well, that'd be +/- 0.25, close enough. 18:58 VanessaE {-0.5, -0.5, -0.25, 0.5, 0.5, -0.25} 18:58 VanessaE {-0.5, -0.5, 0.25, 0.5, 0.5, 0.25} 18:58 VanessaE {-0.25, -0.5, -0.5, -0.25, 0.5, 0.5} 18:58 VanessaE {0.25, -0.5, -0.5, 0.25, 0.5, 0.5} 18:58 VanessaE there. 18:58 VanessaE PilzAdam: use those :-) 18:59 rotor112 you don't need horizontraltree.png 18:59 VanessaE nope. 18:59 Calinou VanessaE: no, ±0.125 18:59 VanessaE tree.png^[transformR90 18:59 Calinou yeah, i'll add hardcoded rotated textures 18:59 VanessaE Calinou: oops, you're right. I went for 4 px 18:59 VanessaE however, 0.25 would make the plants evenly spaced. 19:00 rotor112 r=270, not r=80 19:00 VanessaE Calinou: that's how I do rotated tree trunks in moretrees, with ^[transformR90 19:00 rotor112 90* 19:00 VanessaE rotor112: either way is fine for a tree trunk 19:00 Calinou is it possible to use angles like 45? :P 19:00 VanessaE it's not like it'll matter in practice :-) 19:00 VanessaE Calinou: no 19:00 Calinou out of curiosity 19:00 Calinou k 19:00 VanessaE only 90/180/270 and flipping h/v 19:01 rotor112 HybridDog used it at his swamp mod 19:01 rotor112 what about -90? 19:01 VanessaE -90 = 270. 19:02 * Jordach noticed that jordach is getting 60fps dead 19:02 rotor112 sometimes yaw=360 19:02 VanessaE rotating a quarter turn left is the same as three quarters turn to the right. 19:02 rotor112 but 360=0 19:02 VanessaE yup 19:02 VanessaE that happens. 19:02 rotor112 maybe it's not exactly 19:03 VanessaE it's supposed to be. 19:03 Calinou done 19:04 VanessaE Calinou: new recipes? ;) 19:04 * VanessaE ducks and runs 19:04 Calinou no new recipes :P 19:04 Calinou just removed the rotated textures 19:04 VanessaE lazy ;) 19:05 rotor112 http://cornernote.net/goveg/love_pigs.jpg 19:05 VanessaE bah 19:05 VanessaE don't start that shit here. 19:05 rotor112 ok 19:06 rotor112 he uses new pictures 19:06 rotor112 I think 19:06 * VanessaE will stick to eating dead pig/cow/fowl, thanks. 19:08 rotor112 http://www.fsbio-hannover.de/oftheweek/189/tot.JPG 19:08 VanessaE looks like a garr 19:08 rotor112 http://www.saulustig.com/e107_files/public/1320026720_1136_FT6138_chr-toter-fisch-1.jpg 19:09 celeron55 who is this rotor112 19:09 * Jordach just noticed the little message in HDX's tv screen 19:09 rotor112 it's a fish 19:10 rotor112 http://ermi.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/2007-05-19_tote_katze_1_kle.jpg 19:10 celeron55 i am asking who you are 19:10 VanessaE Jordach: I thought someone would like that :-) 19:10 celeron55 and why are you linking cornernote's stuff 19:10 celeron55 and the other things 19:10 VanessaE indeed. 19:10 celeron55 this also servers as a warning of +q 19:10 rotor112 only the first one is cornernotes 19:10 celeron55 serves* 19:11 celeron55 do you understand this is the channel of Minetest, and your links have nothing to do with Minetest? 19:11 rotor112 now i do 19:12 celeron55 so now you either go find an another place for rotten corses, or stop linking them anywhere whatsoever 19:12 rotor112 ok 19:12 celeron55 good 19:13 Jordach corpses* 19:13 celeron55 blame my keyboard 8) 19:13 rotor112 but I'm allowed to link stuff of minetest 19:13 Jordach blame? dont you mean: your fingers suck, they need to type better! 19:14 sapier1 celeron did you yesterday read my explanation why I think limitng collision check by dtime is better than by absolute value? 19:14 sapier1 roto112 if you don't spam you most likely are 19:15 rotor112 what do you think about stones in the dirt texture? https://raw.github.com/HybridDog/HybridTP/master/default_dirt.png 19:16 sapier 16x16 is too small for a link ;-P 19:16 Jordach rotor112, looks "like" that other game 19:16 rotor112 ok 19:16 Jordach VanessaE, youre going to hate my gamemode 19:17 sapier if you really want to show how it's gonna look like create a mod and make a screenshot 19:17 VanessaE Jordach: why? 19:17 Jordach try taking a picture of iridium? 19:17 Jordach -? 19:17 Jordach iridium shines like the rainbow 19:17 Jordach (and is fuckton expensive) 19:18 VanessaE hm 19:18 VanessaE I'm sure I could find something suitable 19:18 VanessaE but 19:19 VanessaE are you sure you're not thinking of gallium? 19:19 VanessaE no wait, not gallium 19:19 VanessaE um 19:20 VanessaE bismuth 19:20 VanessaE that was the stuff 19:20 jin_xi hey guise 19:20 Jordach hello 19:21 jin_xi anyone in here like roguelikes? 19:21 VanessaE not familiar with it. 19:21 VanessaE Jordach: iridium seems to be a fairly plain grey metal, but bismuth sure gets colorful 19:21 Jordach VanessaE, thats the unpolished stuff 19:21 kaeza jin_xi, somewhat 19:22 VanessaE http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/75/Bi-crystal.jpg 19:22 kaeza yes* 19:22 jin_xi cool, you have made the irc mod, right? 19:22 kaeza yep 19:22 jin_xi i keep on coming back to the thought of using nethack as a dungeon generator for minetest 19:23 kaeza hmm... interesting... 19:23 kaeza though I'm more of a roguelike player. I have no idea about the dungeon generation algorithm 19:23 jin_xi like, run a nh server alongside mt and add a portal to the dungeons of doom. one per player per world... or idk 19:24 kaeza ah 19:24 Doc22 back 19:24 jin_xi use 3x3x3 blocks per dungeon tile 19:24 kaeza john_minetest, DoomRL FTW! 19:25 jin_xi whats wrong with nethack.alt.org 19:25 jin_xi i got so used to play with the lag local nethack feels weird now 19:49 harrison taking care of bismuth 19:49 harrison ( bto ) 19:51 VanessaE *groan* 19:59 PilzAdam gtg; bye 20:20 kang_ http://www.zimg.eu/i/3083104299 dinky oil rig lol 20:23 sokomine these liscences are really complicated :-( 20:23 kang_ which ones? 20:23 jojoa1997 simple just do WTFPL if you made it 20:25 sokomine all of them! i'm not sure which one to take for my mods. they're pretty simple. still wtfpl isn't exactly what i want 20:25 jojoa1997 do the general public one 20:25 jojoa1997 it is WTFPL but it cant be used for comercial licences 20:25 sokomine i'd like to give something back under the gpl, but that seems exaggerated for a mod (which is open source anyway) 20:25 jojoa1997 what is this for 20:26 kang_ if you dont care about credit or reproductions, CC0, WTFPL, et . 20:26 kang_ *etc. 20:26 sapier I recommend CC-BY-SA or CC-SA 20:26 kang_ if you want credit then CC BY SA is good 20:26 sokomine yes. maybe gpl is best. that seems to be the one the main game is written under 20:26 kaeza it is WTFPL but it cant be used for comercial licences <== ??? 20:27 kang_ then CC NY NC 20:27 sokomine cc-by-sa looks good as well, yes. but what are the real differences to e.g. the gpl? 20:27 kang_ *CC BY NC 20:27 sapier gpl is far from WTFPL 20:27 kang_ i dont know much about the GPL except it keeps popping up in debates on slashdot so i avoid it lol 20:27 sapier gplv3 is worst for commercial usage 20:28 kang_ crux of those debates yeah 20:28 sokomine nc goes too far. i'd feel uncomftable about commercial use, but c in this case seems to include such things as distributions on dvd or similar things - would be rather counterproductive 20:28 kang_ well you might want to consider NC if you dont own the source textures or sounds 20:28 thexyz gpl has almost no sense 20:28 thexyz (for minetest mods) 20:28 kang_ you dont want to be liable if someone else tries to sell them lol 20:29 sapier yes so CC-BY-SA seems fine ... you have to be mentioned and your code needs to stay free 20:29 thexyz because you never distribute mods in binary form 20:29 ruskie sapier, gpl doesn't limit commercial use 20:29 ruskie none of the gpl versions limit commercial use... they just limit proprietary use 20:30 sokomine i usually don't do textures and neither sounds; where textures come into play, i'll pass on what the texture-creator wants (hm, maybe that's why there are so few texture contributors...they're afraid of having to choose a liscence as well :-)) 20:30 sapier not with words but gplv3 rule to make all patents open in fact prohibits its usage for most complanies 20:30 kang_ are binary mods even technically possible? 20:30 kaeza yup 20:30 ruskie sapier, well it's either that or dismantle the broken USPTO... take your pick 20:30 ruskie swpats are a broken idea 20:30 sokomine yes, thexyz. it is already source code and unusuable without the source. so you suggest cc-by-sa or something like that? 20:31 sapier USPTO? 20:31 ruskie us patent and trademark office 20:31 ruskie that's why that's in the license 20:31 sapier I wonder what would happen if someone would translate lua mod code 1:1 to c++ code ... not quite sure if this wouln't be cought by gpl 20:31 kaeza kang_, http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=3905 20:31 thexyz sokomine: i use wtfpl for all my mods 20:32 kang_ then there are the various national laws that apply to different users like fair use 20:32 kang_ decompilers are legal in some places and in others ain't 20:32 kaeza kang_, that mod uses luasocket, which is compiled to a .so/.dll 20:32 kaeza so in some sense, is a binary mod 20:32 sokomine yes. at least gpl and the cc-things seem to be known here as well 20:33 sapier yes and gpl should be law-tested in many countries 20:33 sapier most CC licenses should be tested too 20:33 ruskie it's certainly more legaly tested than 99% of EULAS 20:34 sapier that's not very difficult .. as some companies create invalid eulas on purpose 20:35 sapier it's no risk for them as adding a salvatory cause will ensure all legal parts will stay ... while others certainly will be taken for fact by most users (at least those reading it at all) 20:36 ruskie anyway for least restrictions on reuse/distribution BSD, WTFPL, CC0 for restrictions of distribution but not use GPL and similar for restrictions on use CC-*-NC 20:37 kang_ which one: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/01/Solitary_Oil_Rig_In_The_Arabian_Sea.jpg or this one: http://gcaptain.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/111118main_oil_rig.jpg ? 20:37 sokomine what is cco? 20:37 sapier but as always it's your decision 20:38 ruskie sokomine, basically public domain 20:38 sapier CC0 is almost same as WTFPL 20:38 sapier public domain isn't defined in many countries 20:38 ruskie true 20:38 sokomine ah, so cc without any additions? 20:38 sapier yes 20:39 VanessaE CC0. 20:39 VanessaE the 0 is needed 20:39 sapier yes CC0 is CC without restructions ;-) 20:39 sokomine ah, ok 20:40 sokomine the "by" part is common curtesy i think (at least when the author can be found - and in the end all is based on the work of others to some degree) 20:40 sapier BY means author must be added in form author required it to be added 20:41 ruskie yeah byline 20:41 ruskie aka copyright XXXX someone 20:41 ruskie I generally simply go with how much effort did I put into something, how much did I copy from elsewhere, who do I expect to use this and for what 20:43 sapier mobf for example is about 3 months of work ... considering normal work time :-) I think a BY is not too much to expect if someone copys it :-) 20:44 ruskie I generally consider a byline to be the least I can do with crediting someone else if I take anything from them 20:44 sokomine definitely not :-) mobf is more complex than my mods 20:44 * sokomine nods to ruskie 20:44 sapier this is goof practice but not everyone does follow this convention if not forced to do 20:44 ruskie true 20:45 ruskie I'm not a fan of the CC licenses since they are a bit to loose in certain regards but I guess in the current copyright climate they are a good compromise 20:47 sokomine hm. still the gpl seems to fit best for any source code. those cc-versions seem to be aimed at other things 20:47 ruskie true 20:47 ruskie the cc stuff is more for books, music and other such media 20:47 sapier yes but lua isn't exactly source code ...at least it's not used as source code most of time 20:48 ruskie it is source code 20:48 ruskie you write it and then run it and it's interpreted 20:48 ruskie any compilation happens at runtime usually 20:48 sapier we already had this discussion some time ago :-) my definition of source code is code that is (common) compiled to binary code 20:48 ruskie just gets interpreted down to machine code eventually 20:48 ruskie I know 20:48 ruskie hehe 20:49 ruskie it's what I've been thought at coding/compsci classes 20:49 ruskie and it's what so far most people understand 20:50 sapier the limits are fluid 20:50 marktraceur "preferred representation for editing the program" or something. GPL has a really specific definition. 20:51 sokomine in how far specific? 20:51 sapier you'll be able to find a matching definition to anything if you search long enough ;-) 20:52 marktraceur sokomine: I pretty much just paraphrased it 20:53 marktraceur "preferred representation" 20:53 sapier it's intended for c/c++ programs so lua wasn't quite in focus when it was written 20:54 marktraceur Well, it means you need to distribute the lua files as opposed to e.g. luac 20:54 kaeza yay minetest now has an "official" spanish translation! 20:54 kaeza (almost) 20:54 sapier it's from a time where interpreted languages have been far to slow to be usefull 20:54 marktraceur sapier: 2007? 20:55 sapier latest version but its origin is far from 2007 20:55 marktraceur True. 20:55 hmmmm lua is still too slow to be useful 20:56 hmmmm you can't practically do anything in it, we need to keep making new apis that do the actual work 20:56 sapier lua is slow if programmer is to lazy to do it right 20:56 marktraceur sapier: Perl version 1 was released two years prior to GPL1 20:56 ruskie should tell that to prosody devs 20:56 marktraceur And Perl 4 was out before the GPLv2 20:56 sapier not far ago anyone told it's impossible to make reasonable mobs in lua only 20:57 hmmmm and how well do the mobs work now, would you say? 20:57 sapier have a try and see yourself ... most problem mobs suffer are core bugs not related to mob functions at all 20:58 hmmmm i don't have a playable minetest setup at the moment 20:58 hmmmm people keep telling me to try X or try Y but i can't 20:59 sapier after removing abms for mob spawning there's almost no lag for common amounts of mobs ... common is something not far from 100 .... I haven't tested much higher numbers but considering cpu load I'd not be surprised it 1k could be handled too 21:00 hmmmm well what sort of hardware are we talking about here 21:00 * VanessaE peeks back in 21:00 VanessaE abms for spawning mobs causes lag? what kind of settings are you using? 21:00 sapier 4 year old 2.4ghz phenom 2 cores in use 21:00 sapier having hd tv decoding in parallel 21:01 hmmmm dunno about you, but something like "a hundred mobs not lagging" is not an accomplishment for such a new cpu 21:01 hmmmm to me 21:01 sapier spawn on dirt with grass ... which is bad ;-) 21:01 VanessaE I have no troubles using dirt with grass as an abm trigger 21:01 VanessaE what kind of interval, chance, neighbors are you using? 21:02 sapier if you do very low chances it's working but having a single mob spawned each day isn't quite good ... at least for testing 21:02 marktraceur register_abm( { name = 'default:dirt_with_grass', interval = 300000, chance = 300000 } ) :) 21:02 VanessaE heh 21:02 sapier 100 mobs is quite a lot overhead in minetest 21:02 VanessaE sapier: I invite you to try out my plantlife library for spawning your mobs 21:02 VanessaE it has pretty extreme control options 21:03 hmmmm i dunno about you, but being happy about "a hundred mobs not lagging" is pretty depressing and it makes me want to put in luajit even more 21:03 sapier and it doesn't make sense to add more as minetest will loose entity client/server sync very soon as more entities are moving 21:03 VanessaE I've engineered it to be quite fast, imho 21:03 sapier I'll have a look at it if it fits requirements 21:04 sapier stimm on mapgen spawning works fine 21:04 sapier still 21:04 VanessaE plants_lib can do both. 21:05 VanessaE though I suppose for your case, I'd need to add another option to the API to allow a function to be executed instead of just spawning a node. 21:06 sapier reading api this isn't going to work for mobs 21:06 VanessaE oh well. 21:06 VanessaE it was a thought. 21:06 sapier yes but you place nodes 21:06 sapier mobs are entities 21:06 sapier sorry 21:07 VanessaE I know - I can add to the API to execute arbitrary functions too 21:07 sapier I need both, information about surrounding nodes and entites 21:07 VanessaE (the mapgen spawner does that 21:07 VanessaE ) 21:07 markveidemanis Im back!! 21:07 VanessaE I should rename this to biome_library :-) 21:07 sokomine hmm: a hundered mobs is ok. there's not much point in having more (in one spot) because you couldn't see them due to not enough space in the viewable range and animal protectors arriving to complain about mass animal keeping :-) 21:07 sapier funny :-) in the end everyone uses same funcionality 21:09 sapier yes and maybe update it to be able to handle entities too .. and customizable checks 21:09 sapier there are some very interesting features in there 21:10 sokomine interaction between plants and animals would be great in the future as well. animals may eat plants 21:11 sapier would be great as currently vanessae's plants are a big problem for mobf ;-) 21:11 VanessaE brb, adding to the API... 21:12 * OldCoder is here for a few minutes. Will do updates tonight if anybody is available to discuss a list. 21:14 sapier vanessae are you checking all that parameters on any abm call? 21:15 VanessaE only those which are set 21:15 sapier have you measured how long this will run in worst case? 21:15 VanessaE with this tweak I'm adding for your use case, some checks will be skipped because they make no sense/ 21:15 sapier what checks? 21:16 VanessaE worst case is it takes about 1 second to populate every dirt with grass node with something in the active region. 21:16 sapier mobf needs to check quite a lot things thats reason for not using abmx 21:16 VanessaE and even then that's a bit higher than reality 21:16 sapier 1s will result in server crash for sure 21:16 VanessaE nope. 21:16 VanessaE never happens to me, 21:17 VanessaE remember that there can be several thousand such nodes in the active region 21:17 sapier it will if there's a mob already active 21:17 VanessaE 1s would be the time it takes to fill several thousand such nodes. :-) 21:18 sapier maybe not on a core i7 but on a single core phenom 2.4ghz 21:18 VanessaE in practice, it's more like a few hundredths of a second probably 21:18 VanessaE I use a Phenom Ii X6 2.6 GHz. 21:18 VanessaE II* 21:18 sapier ok I'll have a trie for mobf 2.1 21:18 Traxie21 Vanessa 21:19 sapier yes but all 6 cores available :-) I've reproduced the dstep problem quite predictable on a virtual machine phenom II 21:19 VanessaE um 21:19 VanessaE MT runs in a single core :-) 21:19 VanessaE Lua isn't multithreaded. 21:19 VanessaE at least not under MT. 21:19 sapier exactly and this is good 21:20 sapier if it was multithreaded mobs would have to add locking on lots of places 21:21 sapier I'll have a try if plant_lib may be a solution for secondary (low chance) spawning ... but you'd make it possible to add entities and to add a custom check callback 21:22 VanessaE sapier: there. try that out, see if that works for you 21:22 VanessaE (reload API) 21:22 sokomine i'm still for selling mobs through the trader and not too much spawning :-) 21:23 VanessaE I don't know how to do callbacks in Lua, but with arbitrary function calls, it's about the same. 21:23 sokomine (though it's difficult to imagine that traders would sell living deer. but those are great as well) 21:24 sapier vanessa functions aren't different from variables 21:24 sapier just define a parameter that can be set to a function 21:24 VanessaE sapier: I wasn't able to figure it out when I tried earlier today. 21:24 VanessaE I'm still learning the finer points of Lua 21:24 sapier call that function and evaluate its result to true/false 21:25 Traxie21 sapier 21:25 VanessaE see how moretrees uses it in the register_generate_plant() call 21:25 Traxie21 How would one test to see if a file exists, and get a true/false value from it? 21:26 sapier e.g. 21:26 sapier function dosomething(somevar) 21:26 sapier --something done 21:26 sapier return true 21:26 sapier end 21:26 sapier local some_variable = dosomething 21:26 sapier if some_variable() == true then 21:26 sapier --do something else 21:26 sapier end 21:26 markveidemanis HELP.. 21:26 markveidemanis .i need to fork moretrees...nut im a n00b in lua 21:26 Traxie21 Translating.... 21:27 VanessaE sapier: been there, done that plenty of times. 21:27 markveidemanis i need to make so it only adds vertical trunks and woods 21:27 Traxie21 I need to fork moretrees ... nut in a noob in lua 21:27 markveidemanis no acorns 21:27 sapier traxie21 use os lib but I don't recomend this as any server hoster considering security most likely will want to disable os and io modules of lua 21:27 VanessaE the problem is the modder using the library needs to be able to specify an arbitary function to execute 21:27 markveidemanis no spawning 21:27 VanessaE arbitrary 21:27 Traxie21 Yikes, isnt there a better way sapier? 21:27 VanessaE as in even even the name is arbitrary. 21:27 sapier yes he specifies parameters atm you need to store that parameters atm too 21:28 sapier traxie what do you want to do with that file ? 21:28 Traxie21 simply check and see if it exists 21:28 Traxie21 so that I dont get an error 21:29 VanessaE markveidemanis: why are you do set against trees appearing *at mapgen time* ? 21:29 sapier what file is it? another mod? 21:29 Traxie21 eg: file = dofile(filename) 21:29 Traxie21 No 21:29 Traxie21 A txt 21:29 Traxie21 if file == nil then return end 21:29 markveidemanis enough trees already generated 21:29 markveidemanis i just need wood to build with and make things look pretty 21:29 sapier why is it possible that this file doesn't exist? 21:30 Traxie21 because it is generated by the mod 21:30 VanessaE markveidemanis: then use the node_defs.lua file, tweak it to work with your particular setup. 21:30 kaeza Traxie21, local f = io.open(filename); if (f) then f:close(); return true; else return false; end 21:30 Traxie21 io.open creates the file too 21:30 Traxie21 owait 21:30 markveidemanis plz help: i cant find anything 21:30 sapier ok so you're already doing bad things ... so you can continue to do bad things ;-) 21:30 VanessaE everything else in moretrees is geared toward actually making trees appear; node_defs.lua defined all of the nodes. 21:30 Traxie21 XXDD 21:30 VanessaE defines* 21:30 Traxie21 Sapier, theres no better way to save variables in playerdata 21:31 markveidemanis but u used name..VARIABLE..whatever 21:31 sapier what do you mean with playerdata? 21:31 kaeza ah hell... nvm 21:31 markveidemanis making it hard to edit it 21:31 Traxie21 I'm making an economy plugin 21:31 sapier you may store any variable to server settings 21:31 markveidemanis if it was: 21:31 Traxie21 Yeah.... 21:31 Traxie21 serversettings is carp 21:31 markveidemanis minetest.register_node 21:31 markveidemanis then i could edit it... 21:31 Traxie21 for manual editing 21:31 markveidemanis on #mtmt i am posting a list of changes for MarkTwain server 21:31 sapier yes it is ... but having IO acces for a mod is bad on server hosters point of view 21:32 markveidemanis is it +m when only ops and voiced talk? 21:32 sapier I'm currently working on world based settings support 21:33 sapier it's not quite complicated but I haven't had time to finish it 21:33 Traxie21 sapier, you ought to make a patch where the mods can only create files in their own directory 21:33 Traxie21 Because it is ineffecient to do any other way 21:33 LandMine Fuck all you fuckin queers! 21:34 sapier If at all it should be limited to world dir ... but that would require editing lua implementation itself 21:34 LandMine Stfu sapier 21:34 Traxie21 how about both sapier? 21:34 Traxie21 It is easy to make a world-specific directory in the mod folder 21:34 sapier if you run same server on multiple worlds mod folder could be used concurrent at same time 21:35 Traxie21 #kazea, thanks 21:36 VanessaE sapier: even if it isn't something you can use, would you mind checking to see if the option I added at least works? 21:36 sapier vanessae way to call a function would be: 21:36 sapier plants_lib: spawn_on_surfaces({ ... custom_callback = some_user_defined_functionname } 21:36 VanessaE marktraceur: do the whole damn class-B. 21:36 marktraceur Meh. I can deal with one at a time. 21:36 VanessaE marktraceur: he has whole ranges of IP's. 21:36 marktraceur I'm OK with that. 21:37 VanessaE ok 21:37 sapier of couse I'll check but I can't promis when I'll have time atm 21:37 thexyz that was fast! 21:37 VanessaE sapier: no prob. 21:38 VanessaE sapier: see, I tried doing something very much like that (the custom_callback thing) but I could not for the life of me find anything that explains in plain english how to do it in Lua -- that didn't involve some kind of hook into some kind of hypothetical C/C++ progra,m 21:38 VanessaE program* 21:39 sapier did that upper line help? 21:39 VanessaE sapier: I opted instead for detecting whether the modder is passing a table, a string with a node name, or a string with a function name - one variable to control them all (and in the darkness, bind them?) 21:40 VanessaE sapier: so for example, 21:40 VanessaE plantslib:register_generate_plant(moretrees.willow_biome, moretrees.willow_model) 21:40 VanessaE versus 21:40 VanessaE plantslib:register_generate_plant(moretrees.birch_biome, "moretrees:grow_birch") 21:40 sapier if you do your check just add following line to your check abm: 21:40 sapier if custom_callback ~= nil and 21:40 sapier type(custom_callback) == "function" then 21:40 sapier if custom_callback(some parameters usefull) == false then 21:40 sapier -- abort 21:40 sapier end 21:40 sapier end 21:40 VanessaE the former passes a table with a tree model, the latter passes a function name 21:40 Traxie21 brb 21:41 sapier yes this is what the type check is for to avoid trying to call something that isn't a function 21:41 VanessaE so in the example there (which is obviously from my moretrees mod), willows will be spawned directly by the plants_lib mod using the engine's spawn_tree() call, while birches will be spawned by having plants_lib call the moretrees:grow_birch() function. hence, it's still like a callback. 21:42 VanessaE I just implemented it differently. :-0 21:42 VanessaE :-) 21:42 VanessaE so I already do what you're suggestion, my syntax is just slightly different is all. 21:42 sapier yes it is 21:42 VanessaE suggesting* 21:42 mauvebic Nakedfury i got the guns to shoot underwater lol 21:43 VanessaE he's here? :) 21:43 sapier true so the called function may do additional checks 21:43 mauvebic i thot i saw the name in the userlist 21:43 VanessaE sapier: precisely, and it would be the thing that *actually* adds the object/entity/node/whatever 21:44 sapier so I most likely will be able to test it 21:44 VanessaE you asked what checks get skipped if it's a function: plants_lib won't pay attention to the flags that set spawning on the sides/bottom/top of a node or replaces one, because those obviously have no purpose in that case. 21:45 sapier but I'm not quite sure if I'll be using much of your code in this case anymore ;-) wouldn't be usefull if just replacing a slow abm by a even bigger one ;-) ... but I'll look at it first 21:45 sapier good :-) this isn't usefull true 21:45 VanessaE no prob - remember that lots of code doesn't necessarily translate to slow code :-) 21:46 sapier i know but lots of api calls translate to slow code for sure :-) 21:46 VanessaE true, in theory :-) 21:46 sapier in practice too ... especialy if its a get_node or set_node api call 21:47 sapier but sometimes minetest behaves strange :-) 21:48 sapier I wonder if it'd be possible to add a mod tracing layer between api and lua code 21:48 VanessaE which is why I tried to minimize the number of such calls and group them to take advantage of caching and whatnot 21:50 sapier yes a good idea :-) I still have to persuade celeron that dtime limiting is superior to limiting acceleration to < 5 blocks per second ;-) 21:50 VanessaE for example, in my register_generate_plants() function, all those checks used to be kinda co-mingled with that final find_nodes_near() call (line 121). Even though the same amount of code was being executed, moving all of those other checks into a sort of preprocessing loop chopped the execution time by 95% or more. 21:51 sapier find nodes near doesn't result a list of all nodes and positions requested to i remember correctly? 21:51 VanessaE actually it does generate something like that 21:51 sapier does it? 21:51 VanessaE that's the output of the preprocessing step 21:52 sapier you create a list of all node types relevant for checking in first step do i understand correct? 21:52 VanessaE what comes out of that step is literally a list of every node (position) that meets all of the biome criteria. 21:53 sapier ok so I'm wrong 21:53 VanessaE then the program just checks how many objects need to be spawned in the resultant area, and tries to do so. 21:53 sapier how to you get that information? 21:53 sapier information about nodes 21:54 VanessaE it has a give-up threshold of three tries per spawn attempt, so worst case it'll only try maybe 40-50 nodes per 80x80x80 chunk for a typical register_generate_plants() call. 21:54 VanessaE it uses various perlin layers and a couple of find_nodes_in_area() calls 21:54 sapier yes I'm doing same on mapgen 21:54 VanessaE and some simple random number checks. 21:54 sapier without perlin 21:55 sapier ok my primary concern is other mobs nearby so i use get_objects ... 21:56 sapier but it's esentially same 21:56 VanessaE that's one thing that plants_lib doesn't do, directly, but then if you have ot specify a function to execute on spawn, you can do that check there. 21:56 sapier yes I thought so 21:57 VanessaE it* 21:57 sapier but still I don't quite understand how you get information about nodes around an arbitrary position selected for spawning 21:57 VanessaE by checking the entire map chunk for candidate nodes first. 21:58 sapier what defines a candidate? 21:59 VanessaE temperature, humidity, elevation, ground fertility, distance to/from some node you specify, how rare (or not) your object shall be 21:59 sapier in a 3d loop for all nodes? 21:59 VanessaE using find_nodes_in_area() first according to your desired spawn surface. 22:00 VanessaE local searchnodes = minetest.env:find_nodes_in_area(minp, maxp, biome.surface) 22:00 VanessaE searchnodes is then whittled down using the other variables. 22:00 sapier you're brave :-) 22:00 VanessaE so basically, C++ does all of the grunt work 22:01 VanessaE if you pass default:dirt_with_grass to that function, then only a list of dirt_with_grass nodes will be checked by the rest of the preprocessing loop. 22:01 sapier yes but you still get hundreds of nodes if your biome contains air/water/stone 22:01 VanessaE the biome only contains one node first, then the others are tested to see if they're nearby 22:01 sapier hmm this might work for birds 22:02 VanessaE the caller has to decide which nodes are/are not important to look for, and in a way it also decides which node has more priority over the others. 22:02 sapier ok default:warer_source will be enough in most cases too 22:02 VanessaE sure,if you check for said with air as a neighbor, and then check for proximity to water, you can then call your arbitrary function to spawn a seagull above the shoreline 22:02 sapier I wonder how much cpu power would be used to spawn fish doing it this way 22:02 VanessaE sand with air above.. 22:03 VanessaE well, 22:03 VanessaE water with say dirt as a neighbor might work. 22:03 VanessaE or say dirt or stone as neighbors. 22:03 VanessaE you get the idea. 22:04 VanessaE even water isn't such a chore to check, flowers mod does this for waterlilies and seaweed. 22:04 sapier yes for some things it'll work ... as always you can't have anything :-) 22:04 VanessaE (but then, I check for water with air as a neighbor) 22:05 sapier I'll try and see 22:05 VanessaE have fun with it :-) 22:06 VanessaE let me know if that function option works right, since I don't have anything predictable to test it with right now. 22:07 sapier I'll do ... you most likely will be able to test it yourself too as I'll have it at least as optional spawning method after adapting it :-) I never remove features completely 22:08 VanessaE oh ok 22:08 sapier there's jordan4ibanez movegen in mobf and a variant doing essentially same as celerons mobs too ... but they're not used for anything as I don't like their movement style :-) 22:08 * VanessaE wonders what celeron55 thinks of plants_lib 22:09 VanessaE its horrible, slow and buggy. boring. 22:09 VanessaE ;) 22:09 sapier :-) I already know that celeron thinks mobf is far to complex :-) and he is true you can't understand what it's doing in 2 days 22:09 VanessaE haha 22:10 hmmmm i'd rather have buggy interesting stuff than boring stuff that works right all the time 22:10 sapier I'd be glad with boring working entity client/server sync ;-P 22:10 VanessaE hmmmm: the question then is, is it interesting or boring ;) 22:10 hmmmm nah that was a celeron quote 22:10 VanessaE oh heh 22:10 sapier yes but it was directed to mapgen ;-P 22:11 hmmmm i still think it can apply to other things in life 22:11 sapier especialy the one block needles if I remember correct 22:11 VanessaE indeed, it can 22:11 sapier yes 22:11 VanessaE oh yes now I remember that comment. 22:11 sapier but I'm german we like efficient working things too ;-P 22:12 hmmmm i'm not german but i really like efficiency 22:12 VanessaE "Early!? Planes are supposed to be late! It's that damn German efficiency." 22:13 VanessaE (James Cagney, "One, Two, Three") 22:13 hmmmm haha 22:13 sapier Oh we're learning very fast have a look at berlin airport it'll be late by aproximatly 4 years ... at least atm maybe it'll be 5 or 6 in the end 22:13 VanessaE lol 22:14 VanessaE damn it, and I just realized I botched that quote :)_ 22:14 sapier things like that happen if politicians do things a engeneer should have done 22:16 VanessaE heh 22:17 sapier heh? any politicians in here? :_) 22:17 sapier :-) 22:19 marktraceur sapier: We're *all* politicians. 22:19 * marktraceur high-fives his college politics professor 22:21 sapier :-) so you have to be able to cope with that most ppl assume you're lieing as soon as you're talking ... thats requirement for this job ;-P 22:23 marktraceur sapier: Everybody lies. I learned that from my favourite doctor. 22:23 * marktraceur high-fives House. 22:24 hmmmm you know i think i'm going to try RCU for checking if a block is present in memory 22:24 sapier yes ... but it's too obvious for most politicians 22:24 hmmmm that would completely eliminate the need for envlock in lots of cases 22:24 sapier RCU as remote control unit? 22:24 hmmmm read-copy-update 22:24 VanessaE how hard would that be? 22:25 hmmmm not sure 22:25 sapier "eleminate the need for envlock" I'm completely positive with this suggestion ;-) 22:25 hmmmm in _some_ code paths 22:25 hmmmm not all 22:25 VanessaE then we get to look forward to multithreaded Lua later, right? ??? ;-) 22:25 VanessaE (kidding!) 22:25 hmmmm yeah, that's later, sorry 22:25 sapier you can't do everything at once ... but it's step in right direction at least in my oppinion 22:26 hmmmm i feel that if emergethread has unnecessary locking gone it would be super fast 22:26 sapier vanessae it's not that kidding as you thing, I've already thought about how it could be done 22:26 hmmmm and map would load instantly 22:26 VanessaE sapier: I'm kidding because I don't dare ask someone to put forth that kind of work 22:26 hmmmm well there is already a plan for multithreaded lua in the works 22:26 VanessaE turning a single-threaded system into a multithreaded system is not an easy task usuall. 22:26 VanessaE +y 22:27 sapier entities for example would greatly benefit if their on_step handlers could run in parallel 22:27 hmmmm but they have separate interpreters 22:27 hmmmm one for on_generate, and one for the usual mods 22:27 VanessaE hm 22:27 VanessaE I like that 22:27 hmmmm we were talking about it in -dev a month or something ago 22:28 sapier I'm not quite sure ... I think this requires more thinking about 22:28 VanessaE I don't remember the conversation (which is sad, because no doubt I had something or another to say about it ;-) ) 22:30 sapier if there's multithreaded lua I demand lua based locking mechanisms ! :-) 22:31 sapier hmmmm having different interpreters would mean having different namespaces too am i correct? 22:31 VanessaE I don't see why that would be necessaru 22:31 VanessaE necessary*( 22:31 sapier no this was a question 22:31 VanessaE you already know which piece of code has to be executed by virtue of the function/callback you're calling 22:32 sapier I was thinking towards global variables 22:32 VanessaE ah 22:33 sapier if there are different interpretest separating global variables I'd have a huge problem with mobf ... mobs are specified as tables who's pointer is only valid in context of this interpreter but maybe not within mapgen interpreter 22:35 sapier there would be ways to workaround this ... but it'd be ugly 22:40 VanessaE plantlife is similar in that regard, with trees 23:26 hmmmm sapier, on_generate shouldn't have to bother with any of the other bits of lua... 23:59 jojoa1997 is it possible to edit the jump height of players