| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:05 |
|
jojoa1997 joined #minetest |
| 00:22 |
hmmmm |
Drop the GNU, just Linux |
| 00:22 |
hmmmm |
or |
| 00:22 |
marktraceur |
hmmmm: Why d'you think that? |
| 00:22 |
hmmmm |
No, Richard, it's "Linux", not "GNU/Linux" |
| 00:22 |
marktraceur |
Same question |
| 00:22 |
hmmmm |
this has been debated to death |
| 00:23 |
marktraceur |
hmmmm: And yet we're still alive |
| 00:23 |
marktraceur |
May as well do science |
| 00:23 |
hmmmm |
richard stallman is the one who champions saying GNU/Linux |
| 00:23 |
hmmmm |
it's not like the 'correct' name |
| 00:24 |
marktraceur |
hmmmm: Why would you say it's any less correct than assuming that GNU is part of the Linux project? |
| 00:24 |
hmmmm |
I'd say it comes down to preference |
| 00:24 |
iqualfragile |
marktraceur: you know whats harmfull to linux? |
| 00:24 |
iqualfragile |
you. |
| 00:24 |
hmmmm |
If you like saying GNU/ every time then I guess it's just as good |
| 00:25 |
hmmmm |
ganoooo ganoooooo ganooooo |
| 00:25 |
marktraceur |
iqualfragile: Another statement that could use some support. Why do you think that? |
| 00:25 |
hmmmm |
iqualfragile: I'd just like to interject for a moment |
| 00:25 |
hmmmm |
What you're referring to as Linux is actually GNU/Linux, or as i've recently taken to calling it, GNU + Linux |
| 00:25 |
* hmmmm |
cue copypasta |
| 00:25 |
iqualfragile |
its just that you people dont like to say gnu/linux |
| 00:26 |
marktraceur |
hmmmm: No, I think this is important actually. Is it really just as valid to say that GNU is a part of Linux as it is to say that they're two projects that work together? |
| 00:26 |
hmmmm |
they are two projects that work together |
| 00:26 |
iqualfragile |
it are two projects that work together bu |
| 00:26 |
marktraceur |
And yet, commonly, people say the former. |
| 00:26 |
iqualfragile |
t i dont reffer to my os as pidgin/kde/gnu/linux |
| 00:26 |
hmmmm |
marktraceur, there are lots of projects that work with Linux to make the distros we see today |
| 00:27 |
hmmmm |
doesn't mean they need to be included |
| 00:27 |
hmmmm |
what about Xorg? |
| 00:27 |
hmmmm |
why don't you say Xorg/GNU/Linux? |
| 00:27 |
iqualfragile |
ah, right |
| 00:27 |
marktraceur |
iqualfragile: If pidgin and KDE were part of the OS, I would agree that were important |
| 00:27 |
marktraceur |
Xorg is the same |
| 00:27 |
hmmmm |
Xorg is not part of the OS? |
| 00:27 |
hmmmm |
the entire universe revolves around Xorg pretty much |
| 00:27 |
marktraceur |
GNU and Linux both deal with sufficiently low-level constructs to qualify as operating system components. |
| 00:27 |
marktraceur |
Xorg does not. |
| 00:28 |
jin_xi |
lol |
| 00:28 |
hmmmm |
GNU is too irrelevant to be made part of the title |
| 00:28 |
iqualfragile |
so im using KDE/Xorg/prop.nvidea_firmware_blob/GNU/Linux |
| 00:28 |
marktraceur |
hmmmm: In what way is GNU irrelevant? |
| 00:28 |
hmmmm |
because the coreutils could've easily come from somewhere else |
| 00:28 |
|
Rabbi_Bob joined #minetest |
| 00:28 |
hmmmm |
they're not exactly huge parts |
| 00:28 |
iqualfragile |
& dont get me started on hurd |
| 00:28 |
hmmmm |
look at Android for example |
| 00:28 |
marktraceur |
hmmmm: That doesn't change where they came from, and it's not only coreutils. |
| 00:29 |
iqualfragile |
what else? |
| 00:29 |
hmmmm |
marktraceur, but how does that make it necessary to say "GNU/" |
| 00:29 |
hmmmm |
i don't get it |
| 00:29 |
iqualfragile |
in fact i did rather say kde/linux |
| 00:29 |
hmmmm |
the Linux people commonly use includes Xorg |
| 00:29 |
iqualfragile |
realy |
| 00:29 |
marktraceur |
iqualfragile: glibc, gcc, lots of other really vital components. |
| 00:29 |
iqualfragile |
that sounds descriptive |
| 00:29 |
hmmmm |
marktraceur: gcc can easily be replaced by pcc and clang |
| 00:30 |
hmmmm |
glibc is replaced by ulibc in some distributions focused on being lightweight |
| 00:30 |
iqualfragile |
kde/linux |
| 00:30 |
hmmmm |
they aren't necessary pieces of linux at all |
| 00:30 |
marktraceur |
hmmmm: That doesn't change the fact that most distributions *use* those components |
| 00:30 |
hmmmm |
you seem quite defensive about this |
| 00:30 |
hmmmm |
it also doesn't change the fact that most distros *use* Xorg and KDE or GNOME as well |
| 00:31 |
iqualfragile |
just: why would you call something gnu/linux, as you are stating yourself: everybody is using the gnutools |
| 00:31 |
iqualfragile |
its just simplification |
| 00:31 |
iqualfragile |
it makes more sense to specify the de, realy |
| 00:31 |
iqualfragile |
lxdm/linux |
| 00:31 |
marktraceur |
hmmmm: You could replace Linux with BSD, so why not call it Ubuntu BSD? |
| 00:31 |
Uberi|Away |
I'd like a Ubuntu BSD |
| 00:32 |
hmmmm |
that has been done with Gentoo, Debian, and now Arch |
| 00:32 |
iqualfragile |
no, you cant just replace the kernel |
| 00:32 |
iqualfragile |
(without loss of hardware compatibility and features) |
| 00:32 |
marktraceur |
iqualfragile: It takes some work, of course, but so would replacing GNU with BusyBox. |
| 00:32 |
marktraceur |
(and PCC and ulibc and whatever else) |
| 00:33 |
hmmmm |
but if you're so focused on correctness, why do you argue that "most" distributions use GNU |
| 00:33 |
iqualfragile |
marktraceur: this discussion, why do we have it? it wont lead to any result and just annoys me, realy |
| 00:33 |
marktraceur |
iqualfragile: You don't have to be part of it |
| 00:33 |
marktraceur |
hmmmm: I don't argue that. I say GNU when it is GNU. |
| 00:34 |
hmmmm |
okay, then good enough |
| 00:34 |
hmmmm |
just leave it like that |
| 00:34 |
hmmmm |
so you know why we say Linux just like Linux |
| 00:34 |
iqualfragile |
and dont fag arount when we just use linux |
| 00:34 |
hmmmm |
because it refers to any operating system that uses the Linux kernel |
| 00:34 |
marktraceur |
hmmmm: But it's more than Linux. It's more than that. |
| 00:34 |
|
triplei joined #minetest |
| 00:34 |
iqualfragile |
wronk |
| 00:34 |
hmmmm |
marktraceur: But Windows is more than windows |
| 00:34 |
hmmmm |
and BSD is more than BSD |
| 00:34 |
hmmmm |
so what? |
| 00:34 |
iqualfragile |
its more that you think of when you hear linux |
| 00:34 |
marktraceur |
iqualfragile: You use *only* Linux? How do you get anything done? |
| 00:35 |
hmmmm |
Did you know that your water has more than water in it? |
| 00:35 |
iqualfragile |
"reading" is a helpfull skill |
| 00:35 |
marktraceur |
Hm. |
| 00:35 |
iqualfragile |
but its exactly what we think of when we hear linux |
| 00:35 |
hmmmm |
you should say "Bacteria-Dust-Nanoparticles-Chlorine-Water" |
| 00:35 |
iqualfragile |
and you know that |
| 00:35 |
marktraceur |
hmmmm: If there were an appreciable amount of something else in it, I would call it by a modified name. e.g. carbonated water. |
| 00:35 |
mauvebic |
http://www.zimg.eu/i/493627853 <- big one |
| 00:36 |
iqualfragile |
dont forget the calcium |
| 00:36 |
hmmmm |
but GNU isn't as appreciable as an amount as Xorg. |
| 00:36 |
hmmmm |
this keeps going in circles |
| 00:36 |
marktraceur |
iqualfragile: How does your shared misconception make your statement any more true? |
| 00:36 |
iqualfragile |
thats what makes language |
| 00:36 |
iqualfragile |
its not set in stone |
| 00:36 |
marktraceur |
hmmmm: If you can find some reason Xorg should be considered part of an operating system, I'd be interested to see that |
| 00:37 |
hmmmm |
marktraceur: Well why should GNU be considered part of an operating system? |
| 00:37 |
iqualfragile |
"you use only linux and gnu? how do you get anything done"? |
| 00:37 |
hmmmm |
indeed |
| 00:37 |
hmmmm |
how do you get anything done with GNonsense |
| 00:37 |
jin_xi |
idk, fsf supporter here, but still i wont bother with typing gnu/foo |
| 00:37 |
marktraceur |
iqualfragile: I also use other software on top of it that interfaces with both in order to interact with computer hardware. |
| 00:37 |
iqualfragile |
when a lot of people use a word for one meaning then it gets that meaning |
| 00:38 |
iqualfragile |
then referr to it correctly! |
| 00:38 |
marktraceur |
hmmmm: Because it's the basis for the entire system. It defines how programs interact, how the system deals with most basic constructs, and more. |
| 00:38 |
iqualfragile |
you are not talking about posix are you? |
| 00:38 |
hmmmm |
No it doesn't, Linux does that |
| 00:38 |
marktraceur |
iqualfragile: That's simply not true. I mean, maybe those people *understand* the meaning. But the meaning isn't changed. |
| 00:39 |
iqualfragile |
it is changed |
| 00:39 |
marktraceur |
hmmmm: Linux does some of it. Large parts of the system are run by GNU. |
| 00:39 |
hmmmm |
Such as? |
| 00:39 |
* marktraceur |
just went over this in part |
| 00:39 |
iqualfragile |
thats how language works, sadly im unable to give an example in the english language |
| 00:39 |
hmmmm |
not really |
| 00:39 |
iqualfragile |
bit i have one for german: |
| 00:39 |
hmmmm |
you said it "defines" how the programs interact |
| 00:39 |
iqualfragile |
geil meant horny some years ago |
| 00:40 |
hmmmm |
POSIX defines that, Linux implements the IPC syscalls |
| 00:40 |
iqualfragile |
but now we use geil to express that we thik somethig is cool |
| 00:40 |
iqualfragile |
the meaning has shifted |
| 00:40 |
marktraceur |
hmmmm: https://www.gnu.org/software/software.html has all the software included in the system |
| 00:41 |
marktraceur |
Some of those aren't included in a basic install of GNU/Linux, but a lot of them are pretty basic software. |
| 00:41 |
hmmmm |
so you're saying "basic software" is what GNU does for Linux? |
| 00:42 |
* marktraceur |
doesn't know how much clearer it can be |
| 00:42 |
hmmmm |
but you still haven't mentioned how it's the basis though |
| 00:42 |
hmmmm |
it seems like "basic software" could be a hello world |
| 00:42 |
hmmmm |
doesn't mean it's necessary OR useful |
| 00:42 |
jin_xi |
i don't think its about technical stuff... I think RMS should have embraced linux as a name when he made the han solo and the rebel fleet speech |
| 00:42 |
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| 00:42 |
marktraceur |
hmmmm: "The system's basic components include the GNU Compiler Collection (GCC), the GNU C library (glibc), and GNU Core Utilities (coreutils),[1] but also the GNU Debugger (GDB), GNU Binary Utilities (binutils),[26] the bash shell[21][27] and the GNOME desktop environment." |
| 00:43 |
hmmmm |
marktraceur, so you're saying that Linux can't be used without any of that? |
| 00:43 |
marktraceur |
hmmmm: Without a compiler? I'd wish you luck. |
| 00:43 |
hmmmm |
marktraceur, I already said there are plenty of compilers to choose from |
| 00:43 |
marktraceur |
That's true. |
| 00:43 |
hmmmm |
The point is that GNU adds __NOTHING__ that is necessary for Linux |
| 00:43 |
marktraceur |
And if you use a different compiler, and a different everything else, then it's not GNU/Linux. |
| 00:43 |
jin_xi |
look at gcc discussions: tons of technical reasons to open up, RMS says: the fsf campaigns for freedom |
| 00:44 |
hmmmm |
marktraceur, but it's not a part of the OS any more than anything else is like Xorg |
| 00:44 |
hmmmm |
see? |
| 00:44 |
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| 00:44 |
hmmmm |
that was your argument why GNU needed to be included but nothing else should be |
| 00:44 |
marktraceur |
hmmmm: glibc _defines how the system gets used_. It doesn't get much more basic than that. |
| 00:44 |
hmmmm |
"defines"? |
| 00:45 |
hmmmm |
it certainly doesn't "define" anything, |
| 00:45 |
hmmmm |
POSIX defines it |
| 00:45 |
marktraceur |
No wait, I'm wrong. gcc creates the system. |
| 00:45 |
hmmmm |
And so does clang |
| 00:45 |
hmmmm |
It's nonsense. Your argument is nonsense. |
| 00:45 |
iqualfragile |
well, good night then |
| 00:45 |
marktraceur |
hmmmm: glibc defines the way C programs use the system, sorry, I misspoke. |
| 00:45 |
jin_xi |
https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2012-12/msg00072.html |
| 00:45 |
hmmmm |
marktraceur: No, POSIX defines everything |
| 00:45 |
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| 00:45 |
hmmmm |
glibc is an implementation of defined standards |
| 00:46 |
hmmmm |
It's not a necessary part of Linux at all. |
| 00:46 |
marktraceur |
hmmmm: And GNU in general is an implementation of UNIX-y standards. But that doesn't make it UNIX. |
| 00:46 |
marktraceur |
hmmmm: Did I say GNU was a part of Linux? |
| 00:46 |
hmmmm |
You said it was necessary to make Linux usable |
| 00:46 |
marktraceur |
There's a reason I'm standing here telling you to use two names. They're separate. |
| 00:46 |
marktraceur |
hmmmm: I said Linux alone would be unusable. I didn't say *only GNU* will make it useful. |
| 00:46 |
marktraceur |
BusyBox and BSD also help. |
| 00:47 |
hmmmm |
Linux alone is not unusable. |
| 00:47 |
hmmmm |
You can use it just fine. |
| 00:47 |
marktraceur |
hmmmm: Technically true, but ultimately you'll need to e.g. use a command line or open a text editor. |
| 00:47 |
marktraceur |
Modern computing requires more than a kernel. |
| 00:47 |
hmmmm |
And you're ultimately going to need a GUI too right? |
| 00:48 |
marktraceur |
Ultimately, you can use a GUI, it's true. |
| 00:48 |
hmmmm |
So what is it, Xorg/GNU/Linux or just Linux? |
| 00:48 |
hmmmm |
Your call. |
| 00:48 |
hmmmm |
Xfce/Xorg/GNU/Linux make that |
| 00:48 |
marktraceur |
hmmmm: Xorg, I maintain, is not basic enough to be called part of the OS. |
| 00:48 |
hmmmm |
Neither is GNU. |
| 00:49 |
hmmmm |
I just demonstrated why. |
| 00:49 |
hmmmm |
GNU is not part of the OS. Linux is an OS on its own. |
| 00:49 |
hmmmm |
It just so happens that GNU has some set of tools that a distribution may elect to bundle together to make Linux easier to use |
| 00:49 |
marktraceur |
hmmmm: We've just been over this. Compilers and basic C libraries are part of the OS. So are linkers. Want to talk about GUIs? Most people use some form of GNOME, and the G stands for GNU also. |
| 00:49 |
hmmmm |
No, they aren't. |
| 00:50 |
hmmmm |
You don't need a C library at all to be part of the OS. |
| 00:50 |
marktraceur |
hmmmm: You can hold your ears shut and say "no it's not no it's not" all you want. |
| 00:50 |
hmmmm |
And so could you, which is what you've been doing for the past half hour |
| 00:50 |
marktraceur |
hmmmm: I've been trying to explain that a C library and a compiler are necessary, vital, basic components of an OS. You just keep saying "nuh-uh" as if it were some deep wisdom. |
| 00:51 |
hmmmm |
If I didn't prompt you to go deeper into why, the discussion would've never gone to this depth and would've remained stupid |
| 00:51 |
hmmmm |
marktraceur: A C library isn't necessary because you could just as well use some different language |
| 00:52 |
hmmmm |
Each of the programs you execute could have their own C library in them as well |
| 00:52 |
marktraceur |
hmmmm: But nobody does. Or at least, GNU/Linux distros don't. You can't talk about non-GNU/Linux as an example, because that's not what we're discussing. |
| 00:52 |
hmmmm |
But that's not the point if people do or don't. |
| 00:52 |
marktraceur |
It's whether people can or not? |
| 00:52 |
hmmmm |
That's right |
| 00:53 |
marktraceur |
Well, then I'll just start calling Ubuntu Mac OS 9. |
| 00:53 |
hmmmm |
Have fun. |
| 00:53 |
marktraceur |
You could theoretically replace one with the other, so they must be the same thing. |
| 00:53 |
hmmmm |
Sure. |
| 00:53 |
marktraceur |
It sure is nice being a Mac OS 9 user, wouldn't you say? |
| 00:53 |
hmmmm |
You're trying to make what I said absurd, but it's really not working. |
| 00:54 |
hmmmm |
My point is that because it's possible to run Linux without any of those things, Linux must be considered a complete OS |
| 00:54 |
marktraceur |
hmmmm: I don't really care, you've proven that names are infinitely interchangeable and I've moved on to the amusement that that provides. |
| 00:54 |
hmmmm |
Have fun. I'm pretty sure you're going to be the only person who does such |
| 00:54 |
marktraceur |
Almost certainly. |
| 00:55 |
hmmmm |
So, why is it that you're so adamant about this? |
| 00:55 |
marktraceur |
I really am glad that HP made this new version of Mac OS, though. They really flaired it out with this Unity interface. |
| 00:55 |
hmmmm |
It is really irritating |
| 00:55 |
marktraceur |
hmmmm: No, no. There's nothing wrong about it, technically. |
| 00:55 |
Rabbi_Bob |
Anyone have the install media for Precise Mountain Pangolin Lion? |
| 00:56 |
hmmmm |
It would really be nice if you just didn't pop in and say "you mean Ganoo/luncks" every time someone says linux |
| 00:56 |
marktraceur |
Rabbi_Bob: I heard that Oracle would be releasing it in February. |
| 00:56 |
marktraceur |
Rabbi_Bob: Their subsidiary Google is hard at work on the new version. |
| 00:56 |
Rabbi_Bob |
Right after they fix Java, awesome. |
| 00:56 |
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| 00:57 |
marktraceur |
Rabbi_Bob: Are you daft? Canonical bought Java fifteen years ago. |
| 00:57 |
Uberi |
:O |
| 00:57 |
* Rabbi_Bob |
taps VanessaE on the shoulder |
| 00:57 |
marktraceur |
hmmmm: No, I'm cool with it, infinitely interchangeable names are fun. |
| 00:57 |
Uberi |
which universe am I in |
| 00:57 |
Rabbi_Bob |
We're exiting the total linux perspective vortex right about now Uberi |
| 00:58 |
marktraceur |
Let's just get back to SuperTuxKart chatter. Maybe somebody has some mod questions? I'm rather skilled in Lisp, so I can help. |
| 00:58 |
Uberi |
I knew I shouldn't have opened that suitcase, Rabbi_Bob |
| 00:59 |
sdzen |
Uberi: I thought the same thing when I walked into that wardrobe |
| 00:59 |
marktraceur |
Ooh, I love Edgar Allan Poe. |
| 00:59 |
Uberi |
or narnia, perhaps |
| 00:59 |
marktraceur |
I mean, the Narnia books were all right, but the Eragon series is where he really hit his stride. |
| 01:03 |
Uberi |
eragon was pretty good |
| 01:03 |
marktraceur |
It did seem a bit derivative of Tolkein's "Grapes of Wrath", though. |
| 01:03 |
Uberi |
:P |
| 01:05 |
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| 01:08 |
babyface1031 |
what would cause ppl to timeour logging in to a server? |
| 01:08 |
sdzen |
lots of things |
| 01:08 |
OnlyHuman |
gnight |
| 01:08 |
marktraceur |
babyface1031: Common issue is that they're already logged in somewhere else |
| 01:09 |
babyface1031 |
multiple ppl on a server are trying to log in but keep timeing out |
| 01:09 |
marktraceur |
Maybe there's a limit as to the number of connections there can be at once |
| 01:09 |
babyface1031 |
theres been more ppl on before |
| 01:10 |
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| 01:10 |
marktraceur |
I dunno, then. Maybe there's some problem with their connection. |
| 01:10 |
babyface1031 |
ok |
| 01:12 |
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kizeren joined #minetest |
| 01:14 |
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jin_xi joined #minetest |
| 01:21 |
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Kacey joined #minetest |
| 01:22 |
Kacey |
hi guys |
| 01:26 |
Menche |
hi |
| 01:28 |
Kacey |
!up menche.servegame.com 30001 |
| 01:28 |
Minetest-tan |
menche.servegame.com:30001 seems to be down |
| 01:28 |
Kacey |
have you reset the map yet? |
| 01:29 |
Menche |
!up menche.servegame.com 30001 |
| 01:29 |
Minetest-tan |
menche.servegame.com:30001 is up (0.298ms) |
| 01:29 |
Menche |
thinking of just installing protector mod and calling it done |
| 01:30 |
Kacey |
that could work... |
| 01:30 |
Menche |
it would probably be temporary |
| 01:30 |
Menche |
or, rely on rollback |
| 01:30 |
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| 01:30 |
Kacey |
no more creative? |
| 01:30 |
jojoa1997 |
!hi all |
| 01:30 |
jojoa1997 |
opps |
| 01:31 |
jojoa1997 |
hi all |
| 01:31 |
Kacey |
afk dinner |
| 01:31 |
jojoa1997 |
kacey no more creative where |
| 01:31 |
Menche |
on my server |
| 01:31 |
jojoa1997 |
ip and port |
| 01:32 |
Menche |
menche.servegame.com:30001, may be changed to 30000 in the future |
| 01:32 |
jojoa1997 |
joining |
| 01:32 |
Menche |
will grant privs |
| 01:32 |
jojoa1997 |
k |
| 01:33 |
Menche |
soon as i load... |
| 01:38 |
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| 01:50 |
* kaeza |
yawns |
| 01:50 |
kaeza |
hello channel |
| 01:51 |
marktraceur |
kaeza: Hello! |
| 01:52 |
kaeza |
what did I miss besides the usual terminology wars? |
| 01:52 |
marktraceur |
kaeza: Oh, not much of anything. Just the usual BosWars channel discussions. |
| 01:58 |
kaeza |
ah good, good. |
| 02:02 |
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| 02:10 |
Kacey |
hi kaeza |
| 02:22 |
Kacey |
hello? |
| 02:23 |
kaeza |
hey |
| 02:23 |
marktraceur |
kaeza: Damn, you ruined it. I have a continuing hope that people who come in and say "Hello? Hello?" will think that they're the last remaining people on IRC. |
| 02:24 |
kaeza |
hah |
| 02:24 |
kaeza |
unintentional troll |
| 02:25 |
kaeza |
Kacey, http://youtu.be/yM6RtQyfKII |
| 02:25 |
Kacey |
i watched that already lol |
| 02:32 |
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| 02:33 |
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NekoGloop joined #minetest |
| 02:34 |
NekoGloop |
Goooood evening all! |
| 02:34 |
* The_Persona |
puts a kitten on NekoGloop's head |
| 02:34 |
* NekoGloop |
purrs |
| 02:38 |
* Kacey |
needs a kitten |
| 02:40 |
* The_Persona |
dumps a truckload of kittens on Kacey |
| 02:40 |
* Kacey |
finds a cute little one and walks off |
| 02:41 |
Kacey |
http://stuffpoint.com/kittens/image/150748-kittens-cute-kitten.jpg looks like this |
| 02:41 |
The_Persona |
d'aww |
| 02:42 |
NekoGloop |
Ignore list still goin' strong |
| 02:42 |
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| 02:42 |
The_Persona |
how many entries, NekoGloop? |
| 02:42 |
NekoGloop |
One. "Kacey!*@*" |
| 02:43 |
The_Persona |
NekoGloop: no room for LandMine? :P |
| 02:43 |
NekoGloop |
He's not on often enough |
| 02:43 |
Kacey |
landmine needs ip banned |
| 02:43 |
The_Persona |
nah we tried a bunch of times |
| 02:44 |
YoungDerp |
tehe NekoGloop |
| 02:44 |
NakedFury |
all it needs is less attention |
| 02:44 |
NekoGloop |
Oh hey, something to /whois for an IP. |
| 02:44 |
YoungDerp |
i can change ips really efficiently |
| 02:46 |
The_Persona |
yep, IPs are terrible for unique IDs of a physical computer |
| 02:46 |
kaeza |
creative SEO spammer? http://forum.minetest.net/profile.php?id=4156 |
| 02:47 |
The_Persona |
nah he/she seems like an actual user |
| 02:50 |
hmmmm |
http://ompldr.org/vaDlucg/screenshot_2218054327.png |
| 02:50 |
hmmmm |
oh god i am not good wit computer how did i do this |
| 02:51 |
NekoGloop |
that is FUCKING AWESOME |
| 02:51 |
Menche |
How?!?!?! |
| 02:51 |
Menche |
whoa |
| 02:52 |
hmmmm |
http://ompldr.org/vaDludA/screenshot_2150468012.png |
| 02:52 |
hmmmm |
i am in a different dimension |
| 02:53 |
Uberi|MC |
worldedit, hmmmm? |
| 02:53 |
NekoGloop |
YOU HAVE FOUND THE SKY DIMENSION |
| 02:53 |
hmmmm |
no |
| 02:53 |
NekoGloop |
goddammit caps lock. |
| 02:53 |
Uberi|MC |
or maybe multinode superquadratics |
| 02:53 |
NekoGloop |
or maybe edited mapgen |
| 02:54 |
hmmmm |
i am screwing around with 3d noise.. that's going to be the basis of the Aether biome |
| 02:54 |
Menche |
that must be added to default, at like +1000 maybe |
| 02:55 |
NekoGloop |
lol aether. |
| 02:57 |
hmmmm |
it's not bad, i can generate an 80x80x80 node chunk in about 80ms |
| 02:57 |
hmmmm |
very viable |
| 02:57 |
hmmmm |
and this is with debug enabled |
| 02:57 |
Uberi|MC |
oh sweet aether biome |
| 02:58 |
NekoGloop |
That's a lot of 80's. |
| 02:58 |
Menche |
in c++ or lua? |
| 02:58 |
Uberi|MC |
hmmmm: 80ms? C++ then? |
| 02:58 |
hmmmm |
c++ obviously |
| 02:58 |
Uberi|MC |
I can't imagine doing 80x80x80 in lua |
| 02:58 |
hmmmm |
but i guess it won't be too obvious once the ManualMapVoxelManipulator Lua interface gets done |
| 02:58 |
hmmmm |
my goal is to eventually be able to do this sort of stuff in Lua |
| 02:58 |
hmmmm |
reasonably |
| 02:59 |
Kacey |
night all |
| 02:59 |
Kacey |
go to sleep |
| 02:59 |
hmmmm |
it's only 10 |
| 02:59 |
hmmmm |
pft |
| 03:00 |
NekoGloop |
Lemme guess, <Kacey> go to sleep |
| 03:00 |
Uberi|MC |
very good, NekoGloop |
| 03:01 |
NekoGloop |
So predictable :D |
| 03:03 |
hmmmm |
so microsoft office 2013 is going to be released tomorrow |
| 03:03 |
Uberi|MC |
what |
| 03:03 |
hmmmm |
who's hosting an Office party? |
| 03:09 |
Uberi|MC |
... |
| 03:09 |
NekoGloop |
Quitter. |
| 03:12 |
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| 03:13 |
hmmmm |
winners don't do drugs |
| 03:19 |
mauvebic |
didn't the US last president do blow in his youth? |
| 03:19 |
mauvebic |
*last US lol |
| 03:19 |
hmmmm |
yeah and look at him, he's a loser |
| 03:20 |
mauvebic |
theres not much more you can win in life than the presidency lol |
| 03:20 |
hmmmm |
but the arcade machine said so |
| 03:20 |
mauvebic |
well im against hard drugs but i dont consider 420 to be worse than alcohol, though all in all, i say legalize and tax it all |
| 03:21 |
mauvebic |
right now the money's flowing from crime org's to political parties in the form of donations, thats hardly better |
| 03:23 |
mauvebic |
http://goo.gl/V5Dcp :p |
| 03:25 |
mauvebic |
yuck! -> http://cheezburger.com/6997590272 |
| 03:26 |
NekoGloop |
That actually looks good |
| 03:26 |
mauvebic |
ewww |
| 03:27 |
mauvebic |
when i was in highschool they at least filled out those trays a bit more but now you get a pile of pasta on one side and a bit sauce on the other lol |
| 03:28 |
mauvebic |
they also used to cost 4-5$ instead of the 2$ now |
| 03:30 |
mauvebic |
http://cheezburger.com/7000912896 lol |
| 03:58 |
NekoGloop |
lolhequit |
| 04:00 |
OldCoder |
? |
| 04:01 |
NekoGloop |
quit messages. |
| 04:01 |
NekoGloop |
some people read them. |
| 04:01 |
NekoGloop |
;-) |
| 04:02 |
OldCoder |
k |
| 04:31 |
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| 06:12 |
VanessaE |
hey Taoki. |
| 06:21 |
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| 06:39 |
* OldCoder |
is sleeping |
| 06:39 |
VanessaE |
wake up! |
| 06:39 |
VanessaE |
:) |
| 06:40 |
* OldCoder |
stirs but does not wake |
| 06:47 |
kaeza |
4 teh lulz! https://dl.dropbox.com/u/100008207/ssss/screenshot_2228648488.jpg |
| 07:02 |
VanessaE |
heh |
| 07:13 |
kaeza |
srsly my brain hurts... http://cheezburger.com/6983741952 |
| 07:14 |
VanessaE |
oh that'll mess with your mind. |
| 07:15 |
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| 08:02 |
VanessaE |
zzz |
| 08:03 |
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| 08:32 |
hmmmm |
:-)!! |
| 08:32 |
hmmmm |
feels good when everything is working great |
| 08:33 |
hmmmm |
i have one last bug i have to tackle but i'm not really sure where to start..... i should ask people if they have the same problem too first |
| 08:33 |
VanessaE |
? |
| 08:33 |
hmmmm |
heh |
| 08:33 |
hmmmm |
vanessa, do you have debug logging enabled? |
| 08:33 |
hmmmm |
or rather i should say, did you not disable it? |
| 08:33 |
VanessaE |
logging, yes |
| 08:33 |
VanessaE |
-rw-rw-r-- 1 vanessa vanessa 1032736913 Jan 29 03:34 debug-server.txt |
| 08:34 |
VanessaE |
does that answer your question? :) |
| 08:34 |
hmmmm |
look in there and tell me what the last line you see is |
| 08:34 |
VanessaE |
03:35:35: VERBOSE[ServerThread]: Server: Handling peer change: id=2, timeout=0 |
| 08:34 |
VanessaE |
LOTS of those in fact. |
| 08:34 |
hmmmm |
and this is like the newest version right? |
| 08:34 |
VanessaE |
yes |
| 08:34 |
hmmmm |
reall goddamn odd |
| 08:34 |
hmmmm |
want to hear the problem i'm having |
| 08:34 |
VanessaE |
commit bcc0ca93d463ec7bdf6ff1ef621f7777014c404a |
| 08:35 |
VanessaE |
sure |
| 08:35 |
VanessaE |
I've been seeing "unknown" users showing up lately. |
| 08:35 |
hmmmm |
well whenever line 129 in biome.cpp executes, that is, it prints something to the verbose screen, the logging seems to freeze up |
| 08:35 |
VanessaE |
as in /status shows my name and one or more unknowns from time to time |
| 08:36 |
hmmmm |
after this is printed verbosestream << "BiomeDefManager: added biome '" << b->name << "' to biome group " << b->groupid << std::endl; |
| 08:36 |
hmmmm |
NOTHING else gets printed to debug.log |
| 08:36 |
VanessaE |
that IS odd. |
| 08:36 |
hmmmm |
i comment out that line |
| 08:36 |
hmmmm |
works perfectly |
| 08:36 |
hmmmm |
it cuts out directly after "to biome group " and doesn't print out the groupid |
| 08:36 |
hmmmm |
i don't understand it at all |
| 08:37 |
VanessaE |
if I could remember what -> does in C++ I might have a guess |
| 08:37 |
hmmmm |
this is nothing exotic - i'm just printing out a damn line using ostreamwriter |
| 08:37 |
hmmmm |
that dereferences a member of a pointer to an object |
| 08:37 |
hmmmm |
so let's say you have Object *foo |
| 08:37 |
hmmmm |
foo is a variable containing the address of where an object of type Object resides |
| 08:38 |
VanessaE |
right |
| 08:38 |
hmmmm |
foo->bar accesses member 'bar' of the object being pointed at by 'foo' |
| 08:38 |
VanessaE |
gotchya |
| 08:38 |
hmmmm |
it's equivalent to (*foo).bar |
| 08:38 |
hmmmm |
you should start doing more c++ |
| 08:38 |
VanessaE |
or vaguely like foo.bar in Lua. |
| 08:38 |
hmmmm |
you'll love it i'm sure |
| 08:38 |
VanessaE |
oh I might eventually do so at some point |
| 08:39 |
VanessaE |
anyways |
| 08:39 |
hmmmm |
change that might into a will and the eventually into asap and we're in business |
| 08:39 |
hmmmm |
heh, it's like almost 4 |
| 08:39 |
hmmmm |
what'r you doing up |
| 08:40 |
VanessaE |
if I learn C++ to a decent degree, celeron55 can tell me my ideas are horrible 10x more often ;) |
| 08:40 |
VanessaE |
oh, it's just another sleepless night for me |
| 08:40 |
VanessaE |
not the first, won't be the last. |
| 08:40 |
hmmmm |
i don't feel tired for some reason but i'm sure if i lay down i'll instantly pass out |
| 08:40 |
VanessaE |
see I have just the opposite problem. |
| 08:40 |
hmmmm |
need to get back on a sleep schedule for school |
| 08:40 |
VanessaE |
if I sit here at the computer, I get groggy after a while.....until I lie down. |
| 08:40 |
hmmmm |
starts on wednesday for me |
| 08:41 |
VanessaE |
they I'm wired. |
| 08:41 |
VanessaE |
then* |
| 08:41 |
hmmmm |
that used to happen to me but not so much anymore |
| 08:41 |
VanessaE |
university? |
| 08:41 |
hmmmm |
yeah |
| 08:41 |
VanessaE |
cool |
| 08:41 |
hmmmm |
this is gonna be a fun semester |
| 08:41 |
hmmmm |
i have 7 classes |
| 08:41 |
hmmmm |
and they're all real classes |
| 08:41 |
VanessaE |
whatchya studying? |
| 08:42 |
hmmmm |
i needed to overload my schedule in order to fit what i need to graduate on time |
| 08:42 |
hmmmm |
math |
| 08:42 |
hmmmm |
and CS |
| 08:42 |
VanessaE |
hoo boy. |
| 08:42 |
hmmmm |
i should've dropped CS major down to a minor while i had the chance and i wouldn't be so crunched like this |
| 08:42 |
hmmmm |
i only get a degree for one |
| 08:42 |
VanessaE |
no chance of changing your mind? |
| 08:43 |
hmmmm |
well there's no reason to do that now, it's too late |
| 08:44 |
VanessaE |
well I hope you do well :) |
| 08:44 |
hmmmm |
thanks |
| 08:44 |
VanessaE |
my college days are long behind me now |
| 08:44 |
hmmmm |
i can't wait to graduate so i can continue on with my life, but chances are that i won't have any free time for minetest anymore |
| 08:44 |
VanessaE |
stopped at an AA, didn't see much need to go past that given the cost and the job market at the time |
| 08:44 |
hmmmm |
that's scary |
| 08:45 |
hmmmm |
yea, it's fine as long as you can get the job you want |
| 08:45 |
VanessaE |
well you may find some time here and there, just don't focus too much on that which is not important (i.e. yourself, family, these are what truly matter) |
| 08:45 |
hmmmm |
my parents want me to go on to get my masters degree and eventually a phd, but for what... i don't want to be a professor.. a BS is sufficient for what i want |
| 08:47 |
VanessaE |
I don't see much need in going after a PhD unless you've got some high-end career in mind, and even then |
| 08:48 |
VanessaE |
I've always believed that "book smarts" aren't nearly as valuable as real-life experiences in the fields you're targeting |
| 08:48 |
VanessaE |
(but still important, to a degree, of course) |
| 08:48 |
hmmmm |
software development? of course |
| 08:48 |
hmmmm |
same with any engineering discipline though |
| 08:48 |
VanessaE |
yeah |
| 08:48 |
hmmmm |
experience is king here |
| 08:49 |
VanessaE |
I mean, you need to learn the math, logic, etc. skills, but what good is knowing how to program in COBOL if your target runs Java? |
| 08:49 |
VanessaE |
(contrived examples ftw :) ) |
| 08:50 |
VanessaE |
regarding the stream locking up... is there some file handle you have to close after writing that stream? |
| 08:51 |
VanessaE |
I remember in the old days if you wanted to redirect stdio, you could only open one stream destination at a time, forgetting to open:read/write:close would invariably end up causing weird results, like trying to read from stdout or so. |
| 08:52 |
hmmmm |
experience probably works best with book smarts... if you're a smartie pants who'd learn from their mistakes quickly, it totally enhances the effect. you would learn Java in a split |
| 08:52 |
hmmmm |
it's all a balancing act i say |
| 08:52 |
VanessaE |
true |
| 08:52 |
hmmmm |
no, no file handle i need to close |
| 08:52 |
hmmmm |
verbosestream is used elsewhere a lot and it never had any effect |
| 08:52 |
VanessaE |
what about some special magic number? |
| 08:52 |
hmmmm |
it's just my code that writes to it that does that |
| 08:53 |
hmmmm |
probably not |
| 08:53 |
VanessaE |
something you have to write to say "end of this message" or so |
| 08:53 |
VanessaE |
hm |
| 08:53 |
hmmmm |
i keep thinking maybe it's converting groupid to some weird type or something, or maybe it's a bug in my libstdc++ |
| 08:53 |
VanessaE |
a bug? perhaps, but then it should affect all other equivalent uses of that stream |
| 08:54 |
hmmmm |
i'm honestly clueless |
| 08:54 |
VanessaE |
I'd favor the bad conversion hypothesis first |
| 08:54 |
hmmmm |
and like you just showed me, you don't seem to suffer from the bug like i do |
| 08:54 |
VanessaE |
true |
| 08:54 |
hmmmm |
so i must be doing some sort of undefined behavior..? *shrug* |
| 08:55 |
hmmmm |
*shutters* |
| 08:55 |
VanessaE |
wait, |
| 08:55 |
VanessaE |
aren'y you on windows? |
| 08:55 |
VanessaE |
aren't* |
| 08:55 |
hmmmm |
nope |
| 08:55 |
VanessaE |
oh ok |
| 08:55 |
hmmmm |
why does everybody think i'm on windows |
| 08:55 |
hmmmm |
you celeron and someone else |
| 08:55 |
VanessaE |
I was about to say, where did I get that from then? |
| 08:55 |
VanessaE |
hrm. |
| 08:56 |
hmmmm |
well if it's not bugging the rest of the population who uses minetest, i guess it doesn't matter too much |
| 08:56 |
VanessaE |
what DO you run then? maybe it indeed is libc bug or so.. |
| 08:56 |
hmmmm |
FreeBSD |
| 08:56 |
hmmmm |
9.1-RC3 |
| 08:56 |
VanessaE |
wow, 9.1 now? I haven't touched FBSD since...4.3 I think |
| 08:56 |
hmmmm |
that's ancient... probably like 2002 or so |
| 08:56 |
kaeza |
hmmmm, does it print b->name? |
| 08:57 |
hmmmm |
yep |
| 08:57 |
VanessaE |
late 90's I think actually. |
| 08:57 |
hmmmm |
it stops when it goes to print b->groupid |
| 08:57 |
hmmmm |
you know, i should play around with it more and try different strings |
| 08:57 |
hmmmm |
this isn't something i should be doing at 4am though |
| 08:57 |
VanessaE |
certainly not |
| 08:57 |
hmmmm |
no i should be gone to bed right now |
| 08:57 |
hmmmm |
that settles it, i'm going |
| 08:57 |
VanessaE |
ditto |
| 08:57 |
hmmmm |
see you tomorrow |
| 08:57 |
VanessaE |
and in fact I'm heading off now. |
| 08:58 |
VanessaE |
good night :) |
| 08:58 |
VanessaE |
oh, |
| 08:58 |
hmmmm |
'night |
| 08:58 |
hmmmm |
what |
| 08:58 |
VanessaE |
and consider this: |
| 08:58 |
kaeza |
hmmmm, on some distros, printing a non null-terminated string may hang the program instead of raising SIGSEGV sometimes |
| 08:58 |
VanessaE |
if you're anything like me, you're gonna churn on this until you fall asleep, and the solution will "develop" in the middle of some obscure dream |
| 08:58 |
hmmmm |
kaeza, i sorta figured it might be some unprintable character too |
| 08:58 |
VanessaE |
so who knows, you might wake up with an answer |
| 08:58 |
hmmmm |
haha, yea vanessa |
| 08:58 |
hmmmm |
in reality i doubt i'm going to come up with anything until i experiment |
| 08:59 |
VanessaE |
wait a minute |
| 08:59 |
hmmmm |
i think kaeza is right, if anything, there's some way some unprintable character snuck into my string literal |
| 08:59 |
VanessaE |
what about the simplicity of Xon/xoff? |
| 08:59 |
hmmmm |
hmm? |
| 08:59 |
VanessaE |
speaking of nonprintables |
| 08:59 |
hmmmm |
what's that |
| 08:59 |
VanessaE |
you know, the old fashioned Ctrl-S/Ctrl-Q |
| 08:59 |
hmmmm |
never used it |
| 09:00 |
VanessaE |
those still work afaik in most terminals. |
| 09:00 |
VanessaE |
*shrug* it's worth a look anyway |
| 09:00 |
hmmmm |
i type in an IDE |
| 09:00 |
hmmmm |
i'l figure it out i'm sure |
| 09:00 |
hmmmm |
i figure everything out eventually |
| 09:00 |
VanessaE |
nono I mean something that is, like you figured, getting badly converted |
| 09:00 |
hmmmm |
could be.. |
| 09:00 |
VanessaE |
you spam the terminal with garbage, you get weird results. maybe the same is true for this tream |
| 09:00 |
VanessaE |
stream* |
| 09:01 |
kaeza |
VanessaE, so you mean a ^S char is sliping into the term output? |
| 09:02 |
kaeza |
ah nvm |
| 09:02 |
VanessaE |
kaeza: I'm thinking it's getting in there among some other gobbledygook from a conversion error like hmmmm was thinking. |
| 09:02 |
VanessaE |
anyway, I'm off to bed. |
| 09:02 |
VanessaE |
night :-) |
| 09:02 |
kaeza |
good night V |
| 09:16 |
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meldrian |
cya |
| 11:41 |
celeron55 |
http://manu.sporny.org/2013/drm-in-html5/ |
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troller |
http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=66952 |
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kaeza |
hi all |
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PilzAdam |
Hello everyone! |
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NekoGloop |
mornin' |
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kaeza |
hey Neko :3 it's rare to see you this early |
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NekoGloop |
I'm usually busy doing something |
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jojoa1997 |
hi all |
| 15:19 |
NekoGloop |
Meow |
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Traxie21 |
zomg |
| 15:24 |
Traxie21 |
Im on IRC with a kindle keyboard |
| 15:24 |
Traxie21 |
didnt even know it could do that :D |
| 15:25 |
NekoGloop |
Congratulations |
| 15:25 |
NekoGloop |
Do you want a punch in the face, or a kitten? |
| 15:26 |
Traxie21 |
how about a color screen? |
| 15:26 |
NekoGloop |
Nope, got none of them. |
| 15:26 |
Traxie21 |
it takes forever to type with this and the screen is black and white |
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| 15:26 |
Traxie21 |
but IRC works |
| 15:27 |
NekoGloop |
I'm using a TV from the 80's as my computer monitor. |
| 15:27 |
NekoGloop |
;-) |
| 15:27 |
Traxie21 |
still better than a kindle :P |
| 15:27 |
Traxie21 |
look it up |
| 15:28 |
Traxie21 |
I have the non-touchscreen variety |
| 15:28 |
|
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| 15:29 |
Traxie21 |
brb |
| 15:33 |
* Traxie21 |
tries to tell if tabs are green or blue... no success. |
| 15:33 |
NekoGloop |
One should be darker than the other |
| 15:34 |
|
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| 15:34 |
Traxie21 |
yeah... but its real hard to tell when you're sitting on the toilet in semi-darkness |
| 15:34 |
NekoGloop |
TMI. |
| 15:35 |
Traxie21 |
XD |
| 15:35 |
Traxie21 |
turns light on |
| 15:37 |
VanessaE |
damn it cover yourself at least. |
| 15:38 |
|
hmmmm joined #minetest |
| 15:39 |
Traxie21 |
ohi vanessa |
| 15:39 |
VanessaE |
hi |
| 15:40 |
Traxie21 |
Sorry I havent been on your server lately |
| 15:40 |
VanessaE |
it's kay |
| 15:40 |
VanessaE |
okay* |
| 15:41 |
Traxie21 |
you know the tpr mod? For the moment at least, jordan4's version is better |
| 15:41 |
Traxie21 |
you might want to ue that |
| 15:42 |
VanessaE |
I'll consider it |
| 15:43 |
Traxie21 |
But I'm working on a new version that will be more configurable in my ServerExtended mod |
| 15:44 |
Traxie21 |
modding is fun, even if you suck at being logical |
| 15:45 |
hmmmm |
i just looked and my debug.txt has a lot of text after it, mousepad just stops reading after it hits an 0x02 |
| 15:45 |
hmmmm |
why did it write an 0x02 0x0a... |
| 15:45 |
hmmmm |
i bet that if i cast it to an int or something it'll work, watch this |
| 15:47 |
hmmmm |
pf.. well that worked, but i have no idea why |
| 15:47 |
Traxie21 |
what. |
| 15:47 |
hmmmm |
ahhhh... |
| 15:47 |
hmmmm |
it's a signed 8 |
| 15:48 |
hmmmm |
C++ is too smart for its own good, trying to not treat it like a number |
| 15:48 |
Traxie21 |
its so hard to understand people who know what they're doing |
| 15:48 |
hmmmm |
problem solved |
| 15:48 |
hmmmm |
that's a good way to start off a morning, solving a bug 8) |
| 15:48 |
hmmmm |
thanks for the motivation vanessa |
| 15:48 |
VanessaE |
well I was close at least |
| 15:48 |
VanessaE |
:-) |
| 15:48 |
VanessaE |
may not have been xoff but it was at least a control code ;) |
| 15:49 |
VanessaE |
0x02..."Start of Text" |
| 15:49 |
hmmmm |
so i guess everybody else uses text editors that don't stop after reading control characters |
| 15:49 |
VanessaE |
ironic that mousepad should treat that as "end". |
| 15:49 |
hmmmm |
why is why nobody complained |
| 15:50 |
hmmmm |
which is why |
| 15:51 |
|
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| 15:51 |
|
Weedy joined #minetest |
| 15:51 |
VanessaE |
see? proof that just talking about something can help solve the issue ;) |
| 15:51 |
VanessaE |
so celeron55 is full of shit :D |
| 15:51 |
hmmmm |
well what really helped was looking |
| 15:52 |
VanessaE |
I'm kidding :) |
| 15:52 |
hmmmm |
also i forgot i made groupid an s8 |
| 15:52 |
hmmmm |
_whoops_ |
| 15:52 |
VanessaE |
oops :) |
| 15:53 |
hmmmm |
wow! |
| 15:53 |
VanessaE |
? |
| 15:53 |
hmmmm |
that means at this point in time, all of my stuff is bug-free |
| 15:53 |
|
Jordach joined #minetest |
| 15:53 |
|
Jordach joined #minetest |
| 15:53 |
hmmmm |
time to start working on EmergeManager |
| 15:53 |
VanessaE |
oh boy. |
| 15:54 |
|
Jousway joined #minetest |
| 15:54 |
Jordach |
hmmmm, hmm, sounds like a godly idea |
| 15:54 |
VanessaE |
and I get to be the guinea pig I bet ;) |
| 15:54 |
Jordach |
VanessaE, managed to load your serv. with 0fps |
| 15:54 |
VanessaE |
Jordach: heh |
| 15:54 |
Jordach |
but then it died |
| 15:54 |
VanessaE |
yeah, I read. crashed and burned :) |
| 15:56 |
Jordach |
VanessaE, single player with latest git, 40-45fps |
| 15:56 |
* VanessaE |
grumbles incoherently about her failed X10 (the remote lighting control system) install. |
| 15:56 |
* Jordach |
slaps VanessaE |
| 15:56 |
VanessaE |
ow. |
| 15:56 |
Jordach |
no complaining, thats my job |
| 15:57 |
VanessaE |
phh |
| 15:57 |
VanessaE |
pff |
| 15:57 |
Jordach |
cmon, im the grumpy bastard half the time |
| 15:58 |
Jordach |
VanessaE, so, you made vessels, yet hdx has no support for it :P |
| 15:58 |
VanessaE |
sure it has. |
| 15:59 |
Jordach |
256x, nope |
| 15:59 |
VanessaE |
oh I know why |
| 15:59 |
VanessaE |
I forgot to update the inventory vs. weild images. |
| 15:59 |
VanessaE |
wield* |
| 15:59 |
VanessaE |
maybe some other time |
| 16:00 |
NekoGloop |
So when do we get a 0.4.5? |
| 16:00 |
Jordach |
NEVER. |
| 16:00 |
celeron55 |
http://paste.dy.fi/sHv |
| 16:00 |
celeron55 |
i should implement a bot on this channel to handle all these |
| 16:00 |
celeron55 |
so if anyone is interested in answering this noob, i will give the e-mail |
| 16:00 |
Jordach |
when c55 wants a bot, oh boy trouble |
| 16:01 |
NekoGloop |
The problem is that you don't tell minetest to try to run from a folder you don't have permission to edit. |
| 16:01 |
celeron55 |
that is, he is running it directly from a zip or something? |
| 16:01 |
VanessaE |
celeron55: apparently a LOT of people do that |
| 16:01 |
celeron55 |
well somebody else can explain anyways |
| 16:02 |
celeron55 |
or is there a page to link to |
| 16:02 |
VanessaE |
I've seen quite a few people have errors due to that. |
| 16:03 |
kaeza |
*windows users* |
| 16:03 |
celeron55 |
answered with 7 words, hopefully i don't hear back |
| 16:03 |
VanessaE |
and those words were....? |
| 16:04 |
kaeza |
inb4 slap from Jordach |
| 16:04 |
NekoGloop |
"You stupid ass n00b, I don't care" |
| 16:04 |
celeron55 |
umm... something describing what to do |
| 16:04 |
VanessaE |
hah |
| 16:04 |
celeron55 |
apparently my sent box doesn't work |
| 16:05 |
PilzAdam |
celeron55, http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=4505 |
| 16:06 |
celeron55 |
maybe i should link that ten times from the download page |
| 16:06 |
|
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| 16:06 |
kaeza |
I find it funny how he used 13375p33k |
| 16:06 |
NekoGloop |
why, he doesn't say how he fixed it. |
| 16:06 |
celeron55 |
...or somebody could write proper error handling to world creation so that it would give a hint to unzip the thing if it goes wrong |
| 16:07 |
NekoGloop |
"Minetest cannot run from a .zip archive. Also, don't put stupid characters in folder names." |
| 16:07 |
VanessaE |
why not use a "proper" installed/installshield thingamajig for win builds? |
| 16:07 |
VanessaE |
installer* |
| 16:07 |
|
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| 16:08 |
* NekoGloop |
puts a kitten on Calinou's head |
| 16:08 |
Jordach |
do feel free to ask me questions: http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=66997#p66997 |
| 16:08 |
kaeza |
VanessaE, I can contribute a script for Inno Setup |
| 16:08 |
Jordach |
im bored as hell |
| 16:08 |
VanessaE |
even if all it does is the same damn thing as the user does now -- a lot of win users don't understand the concept of unzipping a file, let alone what it means to "run the executable". |
| 16:08 |
Jordach |
VanessaE, hmm |
| 16:09 |
Jordach |
after installing it drops two shortcuts, one for installing mods, and the other for launching the game |
| 16:09 |
kaeza |
http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=4245 |
| 16:09 |
PilzAdam |
Jordach, answer me! (see forum) |
| 16:09 |
Calinou |
since when windows users know how to use windows :-D |
| 16:09 |
VanessaE |
in other words, remember your audience: 90% of them are blithering idiots :D |
| 16:09 |
|
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| 16:10 |
Jordach |
VanessaE, same goes for school exams, think of the examiner as an idiot |
| 16:11 |
|
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| 16:11 |
|
anunakki joined #minetest |
| 16:11 |
* Jordach |
hears the iPad bleep to the sound of a new email |
| 16:11 |
Jordach |
oh great |
| 16:11 |
Jordach |
its gunna be all night! |
| 16:11 |
VanessaE |
Jordach: to that end, I was lucky in school. Most of my instructors were quite intelligent. |
| 16:12 |
VanessaE |
there were a couple of real gems, to be sure, but lack of intelligence wasn't the problem there. |
| 16:12 |
kaeza |
okay, nvm |
| 16:12 |
Jordach |
VanessaE, thing is WE know theyre smart, but still treat them as DUMB |
| 16:12 |
* Jordach |
loves the new posting system on the forum, much faster :D |
| 16:12 |
VanessaE |
Calinou: with exceptions, since when did Windows users even *know* they were running windows at all |
| 16:13 |
Jordach |
VanessaE, boot screen silly |
| 16:13 |
VanessaE |
that apparently isn't enough for some people, Jordach |
| 16:13 |
Jordach |
oh yes, the deaf, dumb and blind |
| 16:13 |
Jordach |
(computer wise) |
| 16:14 |
PilzAdam |
I frequently hear people saying they use "Microsoft"... |
| 16:14 |
Jordach |
PilzAdam, updated |
| 16:14 |
VanessaE |
my worst pet peeve with computer users is when they still refer to the PC itself as a 'hard drive' or something. |
| 16:16 |
NekoGloop |
My worst pet peeve is when someone buys a new monitor to upgrade their graphics capability |
| 16:16 |
NekoGloop |
it's like, wtf. the pc itself needs upgrading then. |
| 16:16 |
Jordach |
NekoGloop, the world is a moron |
| 16:17 |
VanessaE |
NekoGloop: haha |
| 16:18 |
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| 16:18 |
VanessaE |
like I said, 90% of computer users out there, well maybe more like 60-70%, are just blithering idiots and refuse to learn how to properly and effectively use their machines. |
| 16:18 |
VanessaE |
(and if you can't be bothered...get an ipad or something) |
| 16:18 |
babyface1031 |
hi kaeza :) |
| 16:18 |
VanessaE |
(Apple et.al have nice, comfortable walled gardens for you to play in) |
| 16:19 |
* PilzAdam |
doesnt like apple |
| 16:19 |
Jordach |
VanessaE, i use a iPad for entertainment# |
| 16:19 |
kaeza |
hey face |
| 16:19 |
* NekoGloop |
puts an apple on Adam's head |
| 16:19 |
Jordach |
(and porn, /me loves .mp4 video) |
| 16:19 |
VanessaE |
Jordach: but you still have a PC top |
| 16:19 |
VanessaE |
that's the difference |
| 16:19 |
VanessaE |
you know to use the right tool for the job |
| 16:19 |
* PilzAdam |
bites the apple an places it on a laptop |
| 16:19 |
PilzAdam |
that makes $600 |
| 16:19 |
Jordach |
there. an apple laptop. |
| 16:19 |
VanessaE |
lol |
| 16:20 |
PilzAdam |
this is how apple products are mad |
| 16:20 |
PilzAdam |
*made |
| 16:20 |
NekoGloop |
You forgot the lock and chains |
| 16:21 |
Jordach |
NekoGloop, you mean the iron ingot to craft with the laptop? |
| 16:22 |
VanessaE |
Jordach: nonono you have to craft ingots into chains *first*, then craft those with the laptop |
| 16:22 |
NekoGloop |
minetest.register_craft({type="shapeless",recipe={"default:apple","pc:laptop","default:steel_ingot", "glooptest:chainlink"},output="pc:macbook"}) |
| 16:22 |
VanessaE |
Calinou: I've been doing some thinking - is there a particular reason we don't use a saw to cut up blocks into stairs/slabs/etc the way it's done in MC? |
| 16:23 |
VanessaE |
it occurs to me the sheer number of recipes needed for stairs now may be getting a little stifling. |
| 16:23 |
NekoGloop |
VanessaE, you mean redpower? |
| 16:23 |
VanessaE |
NekoGloop: I don't know which mod provides the feature - I saw it in a video yesterday. |
| 16:23 |
VanessaE |
craft saw + material in the right pattern -> slab |
| 16:23 |
VanessaE |
(presumably stairs, microblocks also) |
| 16:24 |
NekoGloop |
no |
| 16:24 |
Calinou |
MC doesn't use saws to make stairs/slabs |
| 16:24 |
Calinou |
first one to code "smart" microblock placing (that can be merged to make stuff of all sorts) gets nobel prize |
| 16:24 |
VanessaE |
now you're gonna force me to find the video :-) |
| 16:24 |
NekoGloop |
you cut the block into two slabs, then cut a slab into two slab strips (stairsplus panels), then place the slab and the slab strip in the same block space to make a stair. |
| 16:25 |
celeron55 |
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology/For-40-Years-This-Russian-Family-Was-Cut-Off-From-Human-Contact-Unaware-of-World-War-II-188843001.html |
| 16:25 |
PilzAdam |
Calinou, something like pass the exact pointed position on the node to Lua functions |
| 16:25 |
Calinou |
yes, that's required |
| 16:26 |
|
webdesigner97 joined #minetest |
| 16:27 |
|
markveidemanis joined #minetest |
| 16:28 |
VanessaE |
hrm, I guess it was redpower then. come to think of it, the saw was kinda bluish in color.. |
| 16:28 |
NekoGloop |
Sapphire Handsaw? |
| 16:28 |
VanessaE |
still, why don't we do that? wouldn't that make for fewer potential recipe collisions? |
| 16:29 |
VanessaE |
NekoGloop: don't remember - it was light blue, almost cyan |
| 16:29 |
Calinou |
if it's blue, then it's an Intel® Saw(tm) |
| 16:29 |
Calinou |
<trollface> |
| 16:29 |
NekoGloop |
that would be the Diamond Handsaw then. |
| 16:29 |
VanessaE |
saw it in some random video yesterday, one of those suggested videos off of something else I'd watched. |
| 16:29 |
markveidemanis |
Hi! |
| 16:29 |
|
markveidemanis joined #minetest |
| 16:29 |
|
markveidemanis joined #minetest |
| 16:30 |
Calinou |
hi marktraceur |
| 16:30 |
Calinou |
markveidemanis* |
| 16:30 |
Calinou |
marktraceur: sorry :( |
| 16:30 |
VanessaE |
hi mark |
| 16:30 |
NekoGloop |
merk |
| 16:30 |
Calinou |
merktraceur much |
| 16:30 |
markveidemanis |
stop with the typos |
| 16:30 |
Calinou |
step with the types |
| 16:30 |
markveidemanis |
and 1 thing... |
| 16:31 |
markveidemanis |
TAB DOES NOT WORK |
| 16:31 |
markveidemanis |
:D |
| 16:31 |
VanessaE |
markveidemanis: works for me. |
| 16:31 |
VanessaE |
mark<tab> --> markveidemanis --> <tab> --> marktraceur |
| 16:31 |
markveidemanis |
marktraceur: works for me <==ends up like that |
| 16:31 |
markveidemanis |
exactly... |
| 16:31 |
NekoGloop |
Press tab twice then |
| 16:31 |
VanessaE |
exactly what I said. |
| 16:31 |
markveidemanis |
but the other way round :D |
| 16:32 |
VanessaE |
tabbing may allow you to cycle through possible compltions |
| 16:32 |
NekoGloop |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYc6Eyx3Hd0 |
| 16:32 |
VanessaE |
completions* |
| 16:32 |
Jordach |
so it fucking does |
| 16:32 |
marktraceur |
....morning to all of you, too |
| 16:32 |
* NekoGloop |
puts a kitten on marktraceur's head |
| 16:33 |
markveidemanis |
not funny anymore |
| 16:33 |
NekoGloop |
what isn't? |
| 16:33 |
markveidemanis |
VanessaE places a kitten on Jordach's head |
| 16:33 |
markveidemanis |
remember? |
| 16:33 |
VanessaE |
Calinou, celeron55.. so might I suggest at some point in the future that the recipes for slabs et.al be switched to something like what's used in redpower? It's more logical and leaves more of the crafting space open |
| 16:33 |
* VanessaE |
takes the incorrectly-placed kitten and puts it back on markveidemanis's head |
| 16:34 |
markveidemanis |
Haha |
| 16:34 |
Calinou |
what does redpower do? I almost never played with that mod... |
| 16:34 |
Calinou |
so you craft a saw, and by clicking on blocks, it converts them to stairs/slabs? |
| 16:34 |
Calinou |
or... does it do something else? |
| 16:35 |
VanessaE |
Calinou: you craft a saw, then craft that with blocks |
| 16:35 |
VanessaE |
http://nemesis.evalq.net/RedPower2/recipes.html |
| 16:35 |
Calinou |
thanks |
| 16:35 |
VanessaE |
somewhere on here anyway :-) |
| 16:36 |
VanessaE |
"Cutting Recipes" |
| 16:36 |
VanessaE |
near the bottom |
| 16:36 |
NekoGloop |
Calinou: that's not even the main purpose of the mod :D |
| 16:37 |
VanessaE |
yeah, the main purpose is covered mostly by mesecons + digilines :-)\ |
| 16:37 |
VanessaE |
+ technic |
| 16:37 |
NekoGloop |
not really. |
| 16:37 |
Calinou |
good idea, but that's a lot of work, I'd have to redo all the recipes :P |
| 16:37 |
NekoGloop |
mesecons can't go up walls |
| 16:37 |
Calinou |
echo "Add saws" > TODO.txt |
| 16:37 |
Calinou |
oops |
| 16:37 |
VanessaE |
NekoGloop: yes they can |
| 16:37 |
Calinou |
echo "Add saws" >> TODO.txt |
| 16:37 |
Calinou |
better :-p |
| 16:37 |
NekoGloop |
and we can't reduce tool wear in a recipe yet. |
| 16:37 |
Jordach |
VanessaE, does hdx support lights+ |
| 16:37 |
VanessaE |
just not horizontally |
| 16:38 |
VanessaE |
Jordach: no |
| 16:38 |
Jordach |
aw |
| 16:38 |
Jordach |
fix ot |
| 16:38 |
Jordach |
it |
| 16:38 |
VanessaE |
but it would be trivial to support |
| 16:38 |
VanessaE |
just haven't thought about it |
| 16:39 |
Jordach |
its _one_ textures |
| 16:39 |
VanessaE |
Calinou: come to think of it, maybe forget this idea. |
| 16:39 |
Calinou |
this idea would simplify things a lot, so why not do it |
| 16:39 |
VanessaE |
Calinou: well looking at these other recipes./. |
| 16:40 |
NekoGloop |
why? |
| 16:40 |
VanessaE |
you'd have to duplicate the rest of the cutting recipes just to stay even with that mod, which I doubt you want to do |
| 16:41 |
Jordach |
VanessaE, can i has copy of your carts mod? |
| 16:41 |
VanessaE |
(and some of these don't make a lot of sense) |
| 16:41 |
Jordach |
(the server one) |
| 16:41 |
Calinou |
Jeija: 3D formspecs pl0x |
| 16:41 |
Calinou |
:> |
| 16:41 |
VanessaE |
Jordach: that's pilzadam's, and it's in my game pack: http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/vanessa_game.tar.bz2 |
| 16:41 |
NekoGloop |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ib0TS143oM nya |
| 16:41 |
* Jordach |
justs wants the stand alone mod |
| 16:42 |
VanessaE |
Jordach: https://github.com/PilzAdam/carts |
| 16:42 |
PilzAdam |
Jordach, http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=2451 |
| 16:43 |
VanessaE |
or do there. |
| 16:43 |
Calinou |
.tar.bz2? count me in |
| 16:43 |
VanessaE |
go* |
| 16:43 |
* Calinou |
extracts it |
| 16:43 |
PilzAdam |
Jordach, if you like carts, you may also like this: http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=4016 |
| 16:43 |
Calinou |
...extracting... |
| 16:43 |
* Calinou |
is still extracting... |
| 16:43 |
* Calinou |
bluescreens |
| 16:43 |
Jordach |
lol |
| 16:43 |
VanessaE |
lol |
| 16:43 |
Calinou |
combo-lol |
| 16:43 |
NekoGloop |
lol |
| 16:43 |
Jordach |
dont you mean kernel panic? |
| 16:43 |
Jordach |
its having a fucking heart attack! |
| 16:43 |
NekoGloop |
No, Jordach, he has joined us. |
| 16:44 |
Calinou |
nope! extracting a .tar.bz2 induces 10% chance to bluescreen regardless of OS (except OS X: this is why people like apple) |
| 16:44 |
* NekoGloop |
casts Extract .tar.bz2! |
| 16:44 |
* Calinou |
bluescreens again! |
| 16:44 |
Calinou |
so unlucky |
| 16:44 |
* NekoGloop |
is inflicted with Bluescreen! |
| 16:44 |
* Jordach |
sits there unaffected since I use WinRAR |
| 16:44 |
Jordach |
:> |
| 16:44 |
* VanessaE |
paints NekoGloop's screen red, just because. |
| 16:45 |
* NekoGloop |
is now infected with Redscreen! |
| 16:45 |
NekoGloop |
Boot Manager error! |
| 16:45 |
Calinou |
lol, winrar |
| 16:45 |
NekoGloop |
lol, 7zip |
| 16:45 |
markveidemanis |
BEEP |
| 16:46 |
Doc22 |
ahh, getting more into world management and realizing the stress of working with borders between negative and positive dimensions |
| 16:46 |
Calinou |
7 zip is much faster than winrar, and is FOSS |
| 16:46 |
* Jordach |
extracts by the power of GREYSKULL!!! |
| 16:46 |
VanessaE |
Calinou: so you're going to change your recipes to match this? (I expect not, it would be a lot of work) |
| 16:46 |
markveidemanis |
who wants to build on my server? |
| 16:46 |
Doc22 |
i do but i dont have that much time... |
| 16:46 |
VanessaE |
build on mine instead :-) |
| 16:46 |
* PilzAdam |
doesnt use any extract programm; hes doing it himself |
| 16:47 |
markveidemanis |
Mine is faster, admit it:D |
| 16:47 |
VanessaE |
apropos http://xkcd.com/378/ |
| 16:47 |
VanessaE |
PilzAdam: ^^^ |
| 16:47 |
Calinou |
VanessaE: meh, no |
| 16:47 |
Doc22 |
yeah i would... |
| 16:47 |
Doc22 |
but unfortunately, I dont have much time... |
| 16:47 |
PilzAdam |
VanessaE, that was in my mind when i wrote it :-) |
| 16:47 |
markveidemanis |
Noooooo |
| 16:48 |
|
rubenwardy joined #minetest |
| 16:49 |
rubenwardy |
Hi all |
| 16:49 |
NekoGloop |
http://xkcd.com/369/ |
| 16:50 |
* Doc22 |
solves problem of negative/positive border in his game |
| 16:50 |
Doc22 |
hi rubenwardy |
| 16:50 |
VanessaE |
Calinou: too bad. I was gonna change my homedecor recipes (lighting slabs) to follow if you did :-) |
| 16:50 |
Doc22 |
rubenwardy I tried crafting carrot cake mix with my mod's carrots and it didnt work |
| 16:51 |
Doc22 |
I looked at the code to find recipe |
| 16:51 |
Jordach |
VanessaE, Calinou: linux in a nutshell: http://xkcd.com/619/ |
| 16:51 |
Calinou |
old news |
| 16:51 |
VanessaE |
heh |
| 16:51 |
Doc22 |
llol |
| 16:51 |
Calinou |
flash ftl |
| 16:52 |
Doc22 |
yeah |
| 16:52 |
* Calinou |
doesn't have 4096 CPUs though |
| 16:52 |
Doc22 |
me neither |
| 16:52 |
Calinou |
only 8 threads :'( |
| 16:52 |
Doc22 |
i have 4 threads |
| 16:52 |
Doc22 |
D: |
| 16:52 |
Doc22 |
but it never gets above 20% 8-) |
| 16:52 |
VanessaE |
6 cores here, however many threads that translates to |
| 16:52 |
Calinou |
Doc22: don't you have an i7-3930K or so? |
| 16:52 |
Doc22 |
more powa', less threads |
| 16:52 |
Calinou |
if so you have 12 threads |
| 16:52 |
Doc22 |
and i have only the 3820? |
| 16:52 |
Doc22 |
odk |
| 16:52 |
Calinou |
VanessaE: 6 threads, AMD CPUs have mutualized cores, no hyperthreading |
| 16:52 |
Doc22 |
idk* |
| 16:52 |
VanessaE |
Calinou: as I expected. |
| 16:53 |
Doc22 |
but i dont have more than 4 threads i know that... |
| 16:53 |
Calinou |
3820 is 4 cores. 8 threads since you probably have hyperthreading on (on by default) |
| 16:53 |
Doc22 |
yeah |
| 16:53 |
Calinou |
contrary to what its name might tell, it's sandy bridge, not ivy bridge. (intel you liar D:) |
| 16:53 |
Calinou |
sandy bridge-E to be correct |
| 16:53 |
VanessaE |
this processor has that somewhat worthless turbo feature too - turns off 3 cores and cranks the other three up by 25% or something, if the CPU detects that it would be faster or something |
| 16:53 |
Doc22 |
i notice that in the windows task manager it shows 8 cpus and i thought that was wierd |
| 16:53 |
Calinou |
turbo is quite useful |
| 16:53 |
Doc22 |
mine is sandy bridge-e |
| 16:53 |
Calinou |
3.8ghz when one core is used here, 3.5 when all cores are used and CPU is cool enough |
| 16:54 |
Calinou |
3.4 being base freq |
| 16:54 |
Doc22 |
mine is nice and cool |
| 16:54 |
VanessaE |
Calinou: yeah, minetestserver can spin at 100% CPU that much more efficiently when it locks down ;-) |
| 16:54 |
Doc22 |
i got a 240mm radiator |
| 16:54 |
Calinou |
mine is overclockable, but I never do that :P |
| 16:54 |
Doc22 |
mine also |
| 16:54 |
Doc22 |
but i dont use it |
| 16:54 |
Calinou |
240mm? O_o |
| 16:54 |
Doc22 |
why would i need to |
| 16:54 |
Calinou |
biggest I've seen was 140mm.. |
| 16:54 |
Jordach |
mine is not even overclocked at 3.2ghz |
| 16:54 |
Doc22 |
it never gets above 20% |
| 16:54 |
Doc22 |
and yes i have a 240mm radiator |
| 16:54 |
Doc22 |
it wouldnt fit in the case with the fans |
| 16:55 |
Calinou |
if I buy overclockable CPUs, it's mostly just in case, and because of the whole "i'm owner of my hardware" thing |
| 16:55 |
Doc22 |
so i mounted all the other fans blowing in |
| 16:55 |
Calinou |
also, better chipset :P |
| 16:55 |
Doc22 |
so the air goes out through the radiator |
| 16:55 |
Doc22 |
does a good job :) |
| 16:55 |
Doc22 |
never overheats |
| 16:55 |
Doc22 |
(of course i still havent gotten it anywhere near 100%) |
| 16:55 |
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| 16:56 |
Calinou |
if you overheat when you CPU is 100% used, your cooling solution is wrong |
| 16:59 |
Doc22 |
yeah |
| 16:59 |
Doc22 |
mine should never overheat |
| 16:59 |
Doc22 |
unless I decide to overclock it |
| 16:59 |
Doc22 |
but I don't have to worry about it even approaching 100% |
| 16:59 |
Doc22 |
:) |
| 17:00 |
Doc22 |
and I set the pump on "performance mode" as opposed to "quiet" mode |
| 17:00 |
Doc22 |
not that much difference in noise |
| 17:00 |
Doc22 |
so what the hech |
| 17:00 |
Doc22 |
heck |
| 17:00 |
markveidemanis |
Ok... |
| 17:00 |
Doc22 |
lol I see how oil cooled computers would be good |
| 17:01 |
Doc22 |
ya know the ones that are in a tank of oil? |
| 17:01 |
markveidemanis |
... |
| 17:01 |
Doc22 |
but this is: |
| 17:01 |
Doc22 |
a) easier to maintain |
| 17:01 |
markveidemanis |
spam:) |
| 17:01 |
Doc22 |
b) guaranteed no oil on my mom's carpet |
| 17:01 |
markveidemanis |
15 messages |
| 17:01 |
Doc22 |
c) I CAN FIDDLE WITH THE STUFF WITH NO OIL ON MAH HANDS!!! |
| 17:02 |
Doc22 |
lol i AM a spammer arent i |
| 17:02 |
Doc22 |
but not on purpose :) |
| 17:02 |
VanessaE |
no, just a jabberjaw :) |
| 17:02 |
markveidemanis |
haha |
| 17:02 |
rubenwardy |
Doc22: https://github.com/rubenwardy/food/blob/master/support.lua#L106 |
| 17:02 |
rubenwardy |
it should work |
| 17:02 |
markveidemanis |
yap...yap... |
| 17:02 |
Doc22 |
made a change rubenwardy? |
| 17:02 |
rubenwardy |
do you have farming plus installed? |
| 17:02 |
rubenwardy |
no, it was in previous code |
| 17:02 |
Doc22 |
yeah its on minetest.org:30004 |
| 17:03 |
Doc22 |
then again the recipes might be messed up there |
| 17:03 |
Doc22 |
like with ufo mod. |
| 17:03 |
rubenwardy |
if farming plus is installed, then it takes the carrot from that |
| 17:03 |
markveidemanis |
ALL servers are on minetest.org atm:D |
| 17:03 |
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codile joined #minetest |
| 17:05 |
* Doc22 |
realises that my code for regions between negative and positive was fine... |
| 17:05 |
Doc22 |
just took time to realise that... |
| 17:05 |
kaeza |
rubenwardy, interested? http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=67020#p67020 |
| 17:05 |
Doc22 |
and rubenwardy I made my mod compatible with pilzadam |
| 17:05 |
Doc22 |
pilzadam's farming mod* |
| 17:05 |
sokomine |
if you're talking about cpus: how much impact does it have on mt? i'd really like to be able to turn far on more often. there are so many nice trees to look at :-) but i think it's the onboard gpu that's too slow for that |
| 17:05 |
Doc22 |
trigger happy pinky |
| 17:05 |
Doc22 |
X( |
| 17:06 |
sokomine |
don't want an extra card, though (would just consume more power while idle) |
| 17:06 |
Doc22 |
rubenwardy could you make it so that food:carrot can use either my mod's carrot or pilzadam's mod's carrot? |
| 17:06 |
sokomine |
could both mods perhaps provide the same carrot if the other mod is installed? :-) |
| 17:06 |
Doc22 |
(assuming that it discludes mine when farming-plus is installed) |
| 17:07 |
Doc22 |
but I like my mod's texture D: |
| 17:07 |
sokomine |
there are already at least two strawberries (bushes and farming from pilzadam). maybe they're diffrent breeds |
| 17:07 |
Doc22 |
i guess... |
| 17:07 |
rubenwardy |
sokomine: they should, for programming etique |
| 17:07 |
Doc22 |
rubenwardy can you just make it support both types of carrots at once? |
| 17:07 |
rubenwardy |
they could do this: https://github.com/rubenwardy/food/blob/master/support.lua#L19 |
| 17:07 |
rubenwardy |
to check if other is installed |
| 17:08 |
rubenwardy |
Doc22: that would require another craft recipe, and would mess up my structure |
| 17:08 |
Doc22 |
yeah |
| 17:08 |
Doc22 |
all right |
| 17:09 |
sokomine |
you could use a variable to hold the actual carrot name |
| 17:09 |
Doc22 |
pilzadam: do you want to make our farming mods compatible so that they drop one type of carrot instead of two? |
| 17:09 |
Doc22 |
ie. my mod drops the same node of carrot as yours does |
| 17:10 |
Doc22 |
rubenwardy another solution would be a line of code like this: |
| 17:10 |
Doc22 |
register_alias |
| 17:10 |
sokomine |
another point: is there really no way to save the block data the client receives? it looks like there is a section in the client where it receives chunk data? |
| 17:10 |
PilzAdam |
do you use GitHub? |
| 17:10 |
Doc22 |
yeah, but I al still a learnder |
| 17:10 |
Doc22 |
learner |
| 17:10 |
sokomine |
oh yes, if your mods where compatible, that would be nice |
| 17:10 |
Doc22 |
I can use it for my projects |
| 17:10 |
Doc22 |
i just havent put them on yet |
| 17:11 |
Doc22 |
so you up for it? |
| 17:11 |
kaeza |
ok this guy should just STFU and go play Portal 2: http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=66962#p66962 |
| 17:11 |
* kaeza |
is a bit bitchy today |
| 17:11 |
kaeza |
sowwy :/ |
| 17:11 |
PilzAdam |
Doc22, make a pull request for that |
| 17:12 |
Doc22 |
umm... I am kinda new to gits, but I will try to find out what that means :P |
| 17:12 |
Doc22 |
lol kaeza |
| 17:12 |
* rubenwardy |
is now Stumble!-ing |
| 17:13 |
rubenwardy |
http://www.stumbleupon.com/ |
| 17:13 |
Doc22 |
ok google search taught me what a pull request is |
| 17:14 |
Doc22 |
I will have to do that later I am a bit busy |
| 17:16 |
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| 17:19 |
* marktraceur |
waves |
| 17:19 |
marktraceur |
Got my minetest merch yesterday |
| 17:19 |
marktraceur |
Wearing the shirt now :) |
| 17:19 |
marktraceur |
The mug is somewhere here in the WMF offices....but I'm not sure where exactly. |
| 17:20 |
Doc22 |
minetest shirt? :D |
| 17:20 |
marktraceur |
Yup! |
| 17:20 |
rubenwardy |
send a photo in, so I can put it up :D |
| 17:20 |
marktraceur |
Doc22: Sadly there was some copyright issue. |
| 17:21 |
marktraceur |
rubenwardy: Are you trying to smooth things over with the Cafepress people? |
| 17:21 |
rubenwardy |
no, I am busy |
| 17:21 |
marktraceur |
Hm. |
| 17:23 |
Calinou |
marktraceur: the mug was not notable |
| 17:23 |
Calinou |
that's why they deleted it |
| 17:23 |
marktraceur |
Calinou: :) |
| 17:23 |
rubenwardy |
no, it had the logo on it |
| 17:23 |
marktraceur |
Calinou: It's not NPOV, it promotes coffee |
| 17:24 |
rubenwardy |
only one product: http://www.cafepress.com/sk/minetest |
| 17:27 |
marktraceur |
*nod* |
| 17:28 |
marktraceur |
rubenwardy: You really need to put the CC-BY-SA notice on it and get the stuff back up. |
| 17:28 |
rubenwardy |
lol http://mashable.com/2013/01/28/anonymous-hacks-asteroids-nyan-cat/ |
| 17:29 |
thexyz |
marktraceur: photo! |
| 17:29 |
rubenwardy |
CC BY SA icons? |
| 17:31 |
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| 17:31 |
marktraceur |
thexyz: Perhaps tonight! |
| 17:31 |
kaeza |
Calinou, http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=67020#p67020 |
| 17:33 |
Doc22 |
marktraceur how so? |
| 17:34 |
marktraceur |
Doc22: The logo is CCBYSA, and neither clause of that license was satisfied by the designs we had up |
| 17:35 |
Doc22 |
ahhhhh |
| 17:35 |
Doc22 |
oh well |
| 17:35 |
marktraceur |
Yet another lesson about licensing. |
| 17:35 |
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| 17:37 |
Doc22 |
WHY DO I TALK SO MUCH |
| 17:37 |
thexyz |
[unrelated] what's the best FS for SD card (64gb one)? |
| 17:38 |
Doc22 |
i have absolutely no idea.... |
| 17:39 |
thexyz |
ext4 doesn't fucking work with my cm10.1 |
| 17:39 |
thexyz |
"freedom" |
| 17:39 |
thexyz |
"open-source" |
| 17:39 |
rubenwardy |
http://www.cafepress.com/mf/76069199/need-some-coffee_tshirt |
| 17:40 |
OldCoder |
I am on errands but will return |
| 17:42 |
Doc22 |
got to go everyone |
| 17:44 |
rubenwardy |
http://www.cafepress.com/mf/76069299/i-heart-minetest_tshirt |
| 17:48 |
Calinou |
kaeza: I don't use windows :P |
| 17:48 |
rubenwardy |
My letter to cafepress: |
| 17:48 |
rubenwardy |
http://pastebin.com/UKpU4URn |
| 17:48 |
rubenwardy |
(ping: celeron55) |
| 17:49 |
kaeza |
Calinou, ah sorry. thought you did :P |
| 17:59 |
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| 18:00 |
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| 18:02 |
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LunaVorax joined #minetest |
| 18:03 |
LunaVorax |
Hi! |
| 18:06 |
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sapier joined #minetest |
| 18:15 |
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webdesigner97 joined #minetest |
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| 18:32 |
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rotor112 joined #minetest |
| 18:32 |
rotor112 |
hi |
| 18:34 |
marktraceur |
rotor112: Hi! |
| 18:34 |
marktraceur |
rotor112: What's up? |
| 18:34 |
rotor112 |
nothing at the moment |
| 18:36 |
|
Doc22 joined #minetest |
| 18:36 |
rotor112 |
hi |
| 18:37 |
rotor112 |
where can I find the definition of "plantlike" in the source code? |
| 18:37 |
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| 18:37 |
Calinou |
grep -rl "plantlike" . |
| 18:37 |
Calinou |
^ in minetest source folder |
| 18:38 |
rotor112 |
ok, thanks |
| 18:38 |
VanessaE |
l? |
| 18:38 |
Calinou |
search in files |
| 18:38 |
VanessaE |
files with matches, got it |
| 18:38 |
Calinou |
or returns file names instead of content, afaik |
| 18:39 |
sapier |
grep has a -r option? |
| 18:40 |
Calinou |
recursive |
| 18:40 |
Calinou |
yes |
| 18:40 |
marktraceur |
I like -rin |
| 18:40 |
sapier |
:-) interesting i use fgrep for those cases |
| 18:41 |
marktraceur |
Also useful, git grep |
| 18:45 |
thexyz |
ssl on; |
| 18:45 |
thexyz |
ssl_certificate /etc/nginx/conf/ssl-unified.crt; |
| 18:45 |
thexyz |
woops |
| 18:45 |
thexyz |
wrong hole |
| 18:46 |
|
codile_ joined #minetest |
| 18:47 |
Jordach |
thexyz, lol |
| 18:47 |
rotor112 |
I found it: content_mapblock.cpp |
| 18:48 |
rotor112 |
line727 |
| 18:48 |
rotor112 |
you could add WHEATLIKE |
| 18:49 |
Calinou |
use nodeboxes 8) |
| 18:49 |
Calinou |
you can make WHATEVERTHEFUCKYOUWANTLIKE |
| 18:49 |
Calinou |
(but no "slopes") |
| 18:49 |
rotor112 |
there you can |
| 18:49 |
marktraceur |
drawtype: 'penislike' |
| 18:49 |
marktraceur |
Boy that's just inviting hilarity. |
| 18:51 |
rotor112 |
I haven't seen Zeg9 at his server for a long time |
| 18:51 |
Jordach |
Calinou, be fair, farming looks like shit with plantlike |
| 18:52 |
* Jordach |
starts minetest with a truckload of mods |
| 18:52 |
Jordach |
mem usage @ 500mb |
| 18:53 |
rotor112 |
ok |
| 18:53 |
marktraceur |
john_minetest: Yeah, because there aren't immature players already. |
| 18:53 |
* john_minetest |
puts a kitten on marktraceur's head ;) |
| 18:54 |
VanessaE |
as for plantlike, why not just use four 2-d nodeboxes to make the minecraft equivalent? |
| 18:54 |
rotor112 |
-0.5 -0.5 -2.5 0.5 0.5 -2.5 |
| 18:54 |
VanessaE |
exactly |
| 18:54 |
VanessaE |
well not quite |
| 18:54 |
Calinou |
Jordach: +1 |
| 18:54 |
Calinou |
we could use nodeboxes to make wheat look like minecraft wheat :P |
| 18:54 |
rotor112 |
2d nodboxes doesn't work yet |
| 18:54 |
Calinou |
<Jordach> mem usage @ 500mb |
| 18:55 |
VanessaE |
{-0.5, -0.5, -0.3, 0.5, 0.5, -0.3} |
| 18:55 |
Jordach |
Calinou, thats with mesecons, bobblocks, and more |
| 18:55 |
Calinou |
4.1% of all my ram |
| 18:55 |
VanessaE |
rotor112: yes they do, I've used them before. |
| 18:55 |
Jordach |
Calinou, also with VanessaE's HDX |
| 18:55 |
Calinou |
rotor112: make them infinitely thin and it'll work |
| 18:55 |
rotor112 |
I tried it and it didn't work |
| 18:55 |
VanessaE |
rotor112: see Homedecor's doors. |
| 18:55 |
rotor112 |
the 2d box |
| 18:56 |
rotor112 |
ok |
| 18:56 |
VanessaE |
infinitely thin nodeboxes are used there to good effect. |
| 18:56 |
Calinou |
worksforme |
| 18:56 |
VanessaE |
{-0.5, -0.5, -0.3, 0.5, 0.5, -0.3} |
| 18:56 |
VanessaE |
{-0.5, -0.5, 0.3, 0.5, 0.5, 0.3} |
| 18:56 |
VanessaE |
{-0.3, -0.5, -0.5, -0.3, 0.5, 0.5} |
| 18:56 |
VanessaE |
{0.3, -0.5, -0.5, 0.3, 0.5, 0.5} |
| 18:57 |
VanessaE |
there. Minecraft plantlike drawtype as nodeboxes. |
| 18:57 |
Jordach |
VanessaE, christ -- HDX looks really "real" |
| 18:57 |
VanessaE |
though my dimensions are probably off by a tad. |
| 18:57 |
PilzAdam |
nodebox channel flodding? |
| 18:57 |
rotor112 |
why not 2.5? |
| 18:57 |
VanessaE |
Jordach: of course it does. |
| 18:57 |
Calinou |
0.3 is off yeah |
| 18:57 |
VanessaE |
rotor112: because the range is -0.5 to +0.5 |
| 18:57 |
Calinou |
MC wheat = 4 planes off by 2 pixels (1/8 of a block) |
| 18:57 |
VanessaE |
Calinou: well, that'd be +/- 0.25, close enough. |
| 18:58 |
VanessaE |
{-0.5, -0.5, -0.25, 0.5, 0.5, -0.25} |
| 18:58 |
VanessaE |
{-0.5, -0.5, 0.25, 0.5, 0.5, 0.25} |
| 18:58 |
VanessaE |
{-0.25, -0.5, -0.5, -0.25, 0.5, 0.5} |
| 18:58 |
VanessaE |
{0.25, -0.5, -0.5, 0.25, 0.5, 0.5} |
| 18:58 |
VanessaE |
there. |
| 18:58 |
VanessaE |
PilzAdam: use those :-) |
| 18:59 |
rotor112 |
you don't need horizontraltree.png |
| 18:59 |
VanessaE |
nope. |
| 18:59 |
Calinou |
VanessaE: no, ±0.125 |
| 18:59 |
VanessaE |
tree.png^[transformR90 |
| 18:59 |
Calinou |
yeah, i'll add hardcoded rotated textures |
| 18:59 |
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| 18:59 |
VanessaE |
Calinou: oops, you're right. I went for 4 px |
| 18:59 |
VanessaE |
however, 0.25 would make the plants evenly spaced. |
| 19:00 |
rotor112 |
r=270, not r=80 |
| 19:00 |
VanessaE |
Calinou: that's how I do rotated tree trunks in moretrees, with ^[transformR90 |
| 19:00 |
rotor112 |
90* |
| 19:00 |
VanessaE |
rotor112: either way is fine for a tree trunk |
| 19:00 |
Calinou |
is it possible to use angles like 45? :P |
| 19:00 |
VanessaE |
it's not like it'll matter in practice :-) |
| 19:00 |
VanessaE |
Calinou: no |
| 19:00 |
Calinou |
out of curiosity |
| 19:00 |
Calinou |
k |
| 19:00 |
VanessaE |
only 90/180/270 and flipping h/v |
| 19:01 |
rotor112 |
HybridDog used it at his swamp mod |
| 19:01 |
rotor112 |
what about -90? |
| 19:01 |
VanessaE |
-90 = 270. |
| 19:02 |
* Jordach |
noticed that jordach is getting 60fps dead |
| 19:02 |
rotor112 |
sometimes yaw=360 |
| 19:02 |
VanessaE |
rotating a quarter turn left is the same as three quarters turn to the right. |
| 19:02 |
rotor112 |
but 360=0 |
| 19:02 |
VanessaE |
yup |
| 19:02 |
VanessaE |
that happens. |
| 19:02 |
rotor112 |
maybe it's not exactly |
| 19:02 |
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| 19:03 |
VanessaE |
it's supposed to be. |
| 19:03 |
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| 19:03 |
Calinou |
done |
| 19:03 |
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| 19:04 |
VanessaE |
Calinou: new recipes? ;) |
| 19:04 |
* VanessaE |
ducks and runs |
| 19:04 |
Calinou |
no new recipes :P |
| 19:04 |
Calinou |
just removed the rotated textures |
| 19:04 |
VanessaE |
lazy ;) |
| 19:05 |
rotor112 |
http://cornernote.net/goveg/love_pigs.jpg |
| 19:05 |
VanessaE |
bah |
| 19:05 |
VanessaE |
don't start that shit here. |
| 19:05 |
rotor112 |
ok |
| 19:06 |
rotor112 |
he uses new pictures |
| 19:06 |
rotor112 |
I think |
| 19:06 |
* VanessaE |
will stick to eating dead pig/cow/fowl, thanks. |
| 19:08 |
rotor112 |
http://www.fsbio-hannover.de/oftheweek/189/tot.JPG |
| 19:08 |
VanessaE |
looks like a garr |
| 19:08 |
rotor112 |
http://www.saulustig.com/e107_files/public/1320026720_1136_FT6138_chr-toter-fisch-1.jpg |
| 19:09 |
celeron55 |
who is this rotor112 |
| 19:09 |
* Jordach |
just noticed the little message in HDX's tv screen |
| 19:09 |
rotor112 |
it's a fish |
| 19:10 |
rotor112 |
http://ermi.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/2007-05-19_tote_katze_1_kle.jpg |
| 19:10 |
celeron55 |
i am asking who you are |
| 19:10 |
VanessaE |
Jordach: I thought someone would like that :-) |
| 19:10 |
celeron55 |
and why are you linking cornernote's stuff |
| 19:10 |
celeron55 |
and the other things |
| 19:10 |
VanessaE |
indeed. |
| 19:10 |
celeron55 |
this also servers as a warning of +q |
| 19:10 |
rotor112 |
only the first one is cornernotes |
| 19:10 |
celeron55 |
serves* |
| 19:11 |
celeron55 |
do you understand this is the channel of Minetest, and your links have nothing to do with Minetest? |
| 19:11 |
rotor112 |
now i do |
| 19:12 |
celeron55 |
so now you either go find an another place for rotten corses, or stop linking them anywhere whatsoever |
| 19:12 |
rotor112 |
ok |
| 19:12 |
celeron55 |
good |
| 19:13 |
Jordach |
corpses* |
| 19:13 |
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| 19:13 |
celeron55 |
blame my keyboard 8) |
| 19:13 |
rotor112 |
but I'm allowed to link stuff of minetest |
| 19:13 |
Jordach |
blame? dont you mean: your fingers suck, they need to type better! |
| 19:14 |
sapier1 |
celeron did you yesterday read my explanation why I think limitng collision check by dtime is better than by absolute value? |
| 19:14 |
sapier1 |
roto112 if you don't spam you most likely are |
| 19:15 |
rotor112 |
what do you think about stones in the dirt texture? https://raw.github.com/HybridDog/HybridTP/master/default_dirt.png |
| 19:16 |
sapier |
16x16 is too small for a link ;-P |
| 19:16 |
Jordach |
rotor112, looks "like" that other game |
| 19:16 |
rotor112 |
ok |
| 19:16 |
Jordach |
VanessaE, youre going to hate my gamemode |
| 19:17 |
sapier |
if you really want to show how it's gonna look like create a mod and make a screenshot |
| 19:17 |
VanessaE |
Jordach: why? |
| 19:17 |
Jordach |
try taking a picture of iridium? |
| 19:17 |
Jordach |
-? |
| 19:17 |
Jordach |
iridium shines like the rainbow |
| 19:17 |
Jordach |
(and is fuckton expensive) |
| 19:18 |
VanessaE |
hm |
| 19:18 |
VanessaE |
I'm sure I could find something suitable |
| 19:18 |
VanessaE |
but |
| 19:19 |
VanessaE |
are you sure you're not thinking of gallium? |
| 19:19 |
VanessaE |
no wait, not gallium |
| 19:19 |
VanessaE |
um |
| 19:20 |
VanessaE |
bismuth |
| 19:20 |
VanessaE |
that was the stuff |
| 19:20 |
jin_xi |
hey guise |
| 19:20 |
Jordach |
hello |
| 19:21 |
jin_xi |
anyone in here like roguelikes? |
| 19:21 |
VanessaE |
not familiar with it. |
| 19:21 |
VanessaE |
Jordach: iridium seems to be a fairly plain grey metal, but bismuth sure gets colorful |
| 19:21 |
Jordach |
VanessaE, thats the unpolished stuff |
| 19:21 |
kaeza |
jin_xi, somewhat |
| 19:22 |
VanessaE |
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/75/Bi-crystal.jpg |
| 19:22 |
kaeza |
yes* |
| 19:22 |
jin_xi |
cool, you have made the irc mod, right? |
| 19:22 |
kaeza |
yep |
| 19:22 |
jin_xi |
i keep on coming back to the thought of using nethack as a dungeon generator for minetest |
| 19:23 |
kaeza |
hmm... interesting... |
| 19:23 |
kaeza |
though I'm more of a roguelike player. I have no idea about the dungeon generation algorithm |
| 19:23 |
jin_xi |
like, run a nh server alongside mt and add a portal to the dungeons of doom. one per player per world... or idk |
| 19:24 |
kaeza |
ah |
| 19:24 |
Doc22 |
back |
| 19:24 |
jin_xi |
use 3x3x3 blocks per dungeon tile |
| 19:24 |
kaeza |
john_minetest, DoomRL FTW! |
| 19:25 |
jin_xi |
whats wrong with nethack.alt.org |
| 19:25 |
jin_xi |
i got so used to play with the lag local nethack feels weird now |
| 19:30 |
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| 19:49 |
harrison |
taking care of bismuth |
| 19:49 |
harrison |
( bto ) |
| 19:51 |
VanessaE |
*groan* |
| 19:54 |
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| 19:59 |
PilzAdam |
gtg; bye |
| 20:00 |
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| 20:19 |
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| 20:20 |
kang_ |
http://www.zimg.eu/i/3083104299 dinky oil rig lol |
| 20:23 |
sokomine |
these liscences are really complicated :-( |
| 20:23 |
kang_ |
which ones? |
| 20:23 |
jojoa1997 |
simple just do WTFPL if you made it |
| 20:25 |
sokomine |
all of them! i'm not sure which one to take for my mods. they're pretty simple. still wtfpl isn't exactly what i want |
| 20:25 |
jojoa1997 |
do the general public one |
| 20:25 |
jojoa1997 |
it is WTFPL but it cant be used for comercial licences |
| 20:25 |
sokomine |
i'd like to give something back under the gpl, but that seems exaggerated for a mod (which is open source anyway) |
| 20:25 |
jojoa1997 |
what is this for |
| 20:25 |
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| 20:26 |
kang_ |
if you dont care about credit or reproductions, CC0, WTFPL, et . |
| 20:26 |
kang_ |
*etc. |
| 20:26 |
sapier |
I recommend CC-BY-SA or CC-SA |
| 20:26 |
kang_ |
if you want credit then CC BY SA is good |
| 20:26 |
sokomine |
yes. maybe gpl is best. that seems to be the one the main game is written under |
| 20:26 |
kaeza |
<jojoa1997> it is WTFPL but it cant be used for comercial licences <== ??? |
| 20:27 |
kang_ |
then CC NY NC |
| 20:27 |
sokomine |
cc-by-sa looks good as well, yes. but what are the real differences to e.g. the gpl? |
| 20:27 |
kang_ |
*CC BY NC |
| 20:27 |
sapier |
gpl is far from WTFPL |
| 20:27 |
kang_ |
i dont know much about the GPL except it keeps popping up in debates on slashdot so i avoid it lol |
| 20:27 |
sapier |
gplv3 is worst for commercial usage |
| 20:28 |
kang_ |
crux of those debates yeah |
| 20:28 |
sokomine |
nc goes too far. i'd feel uncomftable about commercial use, but c in this case seems to include such things as distributions on dvd or similar things - would be rather counterproductive |
| 20:28 |
kang_ |
well you might want to consider NC if you dont own the source textures or sounds |
| 20:28 |
thexyz |
gpl has almost no sense |
| 20:28 |
thexyz |
(for minetest mods) |
| 20:28 |
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| 20:28 |
kang_ |
you dont want to be liable if someone else tries to sell them lol |
| 20:29 |
sapier |
yes so CC-BY-SA seems fine ... you have to be mentioned and your code needs to stay free |
| 20:29 |
thexyz |
because you never distribute mods in binary form |
| 20:29 |
ruskie |
sapier, gpl doesn't limit commercial use |
| 20:29 |
ruskie |
none of the gpl versions limit commercial use... they just limit proprietary use |
| 20:30 |
sokomine |
i usually don't do textures and neither sounds; where textures come into play, i'll pass on what the texture-creator wants (hm, maybe that's why there are so few texture contributors...they're afraid of having to choose a liscence as well :-)) |
| 20:30 |
sapier |
not with words but gplv3 rule to make all patents open in fact prohibits its usage for most complanies |
| 20:30 |
kang_ |
are binary mods even technically possible? |
| 20:30 |
kaeza |
yup |
| 20:30 |
ruskie |
sapier, well it's either that or dismantle the broken USPTO... take your pick |
| 20:30 |
ruskie |
swpats are a broken idea |
| 20:30 |
sokomine |
yes, thexyz. it is already source code and unusuable without the source. so you suggest cc-by-sa or something like that? |
| 20:31 |
sapier |
USPTO? |
| 20:31 |
ruskie |
us patent and trademark office |
| 20:31 |
ruskie |
that's why that's in the license |
| 20:31 |
sapier |
I wonder what would happen if someone would translate lua mod code 1:1 to c++ code ... not quite sure if this wouln't be cought by gpl |
| 20:31 |
kaeza |
kang_, http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=3905 |
| 20:31 |
thexyz |
sokomine: i use wtfpl for all my mods |
| 20:32 |
kang_ |
then there are the various national laws that apply to different users like fair use |
| 20:32 |
kang_ |
decompilers are legal in some places and in others ain't |
| 20:32 |
kaeza |
kang_, that mod uses luasocket, which is compiled to a .so/.dll |
| 20:32 |
kaeza |
so in some sense, is a binary mod |
| 20:32 |
sokomine |
yes. at least gpl and the cc-things seem to be known here as well |
| 20:33 |
sapier |
yes and gpl should be law-tested in many countries |
| 20:33 |
sapier |
most CC licenses should be tested too |
| 20:33 |
ruskie |
it's certainly more legaly tested than 99% of EULAS |
| 20:34 |
sapier |
that's not very difficult .. as some companies create invalid eulas on purpose |
| 20:35 |
sapier |
it's no risk for them as adding a salvatory cause will ensure all legal parts will stay ... while others certainly will be taken for fact by most users (at least those reading it at all) |
| 20:36 |
ruskie |
anyway for least restrictions on reuse/distribution BSD, WTFPL, CC0 for restrictions of distribution but not use GPL and similar for restrictions on use CC-*-NC |
| 20:37 |
kang_ |
which one: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/01/Solitary_Oil_Rig_In_The_Arabian_Sea.jpg or this one: http://gcaptain.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/111118main_oil_rig.jpg ? |
| 20:37 |
sokomine |
what is cco? |
| 20:37 |
sapier |
but as always it's your decision |
| 20:38 |
ruskie |
sokomine, basically public domain |
| 20:38 |
sapier |
CC0 is almost same as WTFPL |
| 20:38 |
sapier |
public domain isn't defined in many countries |
| 20:38 |
ruskie |
true |
| 20:38 |
sokomine |
ah, so cc without any additions? |
| 20:38 |
sapier |
yes |
| 20:39 |
VanessaE |
CC0. |
| 20:39 |
VanessaE |
the 0 is needed |
| 20:39 |
sapier |
yes CC0 is CC without restructions ;-) |
| 20:39 |
sokomine |
ah, ok |
| 20:40 |
sokomine |
the "by" part is common curtesy i think (at least when the author can be found - and in the end all is based on the work of others to some degree) |
| 20:40 |
sapier |
BY means author must be added in form author required it to be added |
| 20:41 |
ruskie |
yeah byline |
| 20:41 |
ruskie |
aka copyright XXXX someone |
| 20:41 |
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| 20:41 |
ruskie |
I generally simply go with how much effort did I put into something, how much did I copy from elsewhere, who do I expect to use this and for what |
| 20:43 |
sapier |
mobf for example is about 3 months of work ... considering normal work time :-) I think a BY is not too much to expect if someone copys it :-) |
| 20:44 |
ruskie |
I generally consider a byline to be the least I can do with crediting someone else if I take anything from them |
| 20:44 |
sokomine |
definitely not :-) mobf is more complex than my mods |
| 20:44 |
* sokomine |
nods to ruskie |
| 20:44 |
sapier |
this is goof practice but not everyone does follow this convention if not forced to do |
| 20:44 |
ruskie |
true |
| 20:45 |
ruskie |
I'm not a fan of the CC licenses since they are a bit to loose in certain regards but I guess in the current copyright climate they are a good compromise |
| 20:46 |
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| 20:47 |
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| 20:47 |
sokomine |
hm. still the gpl seems to fit best for any source code. those cc-versions seem to be aimed at other things |
| 20:47 |
ruskie |
true |
| 20:47 |
ruskie |
the cc stuff is more for books, music and other such media |
| 20:47 |
sapier |
yes but lua isn't exactly source code ...at least it's not used as source code most of time |
| 20:48 |
ruskie |
it is source code |
| 20:48 |
ruskie |
you write it and then run it and it's interpreted |
| 20:48 |
ruskie |
any compilation happens at runtime usually |
| 20:48 |
sapier |
we already had this discussion some time ago :-) my definition of source code is code that is (common) compiled to binary code |
| 20:48 |
ruskie |
just gets interpreted down to machine code eventually |
| 20:48 |
ruskie |
I know |
| 20:48 |
ruskie |
hehe |
| 20:49 |
ruskie |
it's what I've been thought at coding/compsci classes |
| 20:49 |
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| 20:49 |
ruskie |
and it's what so far most people understand |
| 20:50 |
sapier |
the limits are fluid |
| 20:50 |
marktraceur |
"preferred representation for editing the program" or something. GPL has a really specific definition. |
| 20:50 |
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| 20:51 |
sokomine |
in how far specific? |
| 20:51 |
sapier |
you'll be able to find a matching definition to anything if you search long enough ;-) |
| 20:52 |
marktraceur |
sokomine: I pretty much just paraphrased it |
| 20:53 |
marktraceur |
"preferred representation" |
| 20:53 |
sapier |
it's intended for c/c++ programs so lua wasn't quite in focus when it was written |
| 20:54 |
marktraceur |
Well, it means you need to distribute the lua files as opposed to e.g. luac |
| 20:54 |
kaeza |
yay minetest now has an "official" spanish translation! |
| 20:54 |
kaeza |
(almost) |
| 20:54 |
sapier |
it's from a time where interpreted languages have been far to slow to be usefull |
| 20:54 |
marktraceur |
sapier: 2007? |
| 20:55 |
sapier |
latest version but its origin is far from 2007 |
| 20:55 |
marktraceur |
True. |
| 20:55 |
hmmmm |
lua is still too slow to be useful |
| 20:56 |
hmmmm |
you can't practically do anything in it, we need to keep making new apis that do the actual work |
| 20:56 |
sapier |
lua is slow if programmer is to lazy to do it right |
| 20:56 |
marktraceur |
sapier: Perl version 1 was released two years prior to GPL1 |
| 20:56 |
ruskie |
should tell that to prosody devs |
| 20:56 |
marktraceur |
And Perl 4 was out before the GPLv2 |
| 20:56 |
sapier |
not far ago anyone told it's impossible to make reasonable mobs in lua only |
| 20:57 |
hmmmm |
and how well do the mobs work now, would you say? |
| 20:57 |
sapier |
have a try and see yourself ... most problem mobs suffer are core bugs not related to mob functions at all |
| 20:58 |
hmmmm |
i don't have a playable minetest setup at the moment |
| 20:58 |
hmmmm |
people keep telling me to try X or try Y but i can't |
| 20:59 |
sapier |
after removing abms for mob spawning there's almost no lag for common amounts of mobs ... common is something not far from 100 .... I haven't tested much higher numbers but considering cpu load I'd not be surprised it 1k could be handled too |
| 21:00 |
hmmmm |
well what sort of hardware are we talking about here |
| 21:00 |
* VanessaE |
peeks back in |
| 21:00 |
VanessaE |
abms for spawning mobs causes lag? what kind of settings are you using? |
| 21:00 |
sapier |
4 year old 2.4ghz phenom 2 cores in use |
| 21:00 |
sapier |
having hd tv decoding in parallel |
| 21:01 |
hmmmm |
dunno about you, but something like "a hundred mobs not lagging" is not an accomplishment for such a new cpu |
| 21:01 |
hmmmm |
to me |
| 21:01 |
sapier |
spawn on dirt with grass ... which is bad ;-) |
| 21:01 |
VanessaE |
I have no troubles using dirt with grass as an abm trigger |
| 21:01 |
VanessaE |
what kind of interval, chance, neighbors are you using? |
| 21:02 |
sapier |
if you do very low chances it's working but having a single mob spawned each day isn't quite good ... at least for testing |
| 21:02 |
marktraceur |
register_abm( { name = 'default:dirt_with_grass', interval = 300000, chance = 300000 } ) :) |
| 21:02 |
VanessaE |
heh |
| 21:02 |
sapier |
100 mobs is quite a lot overhead in minetest |
| 21:02 |
VanessaE |
sapier: I invite you to try out my plantlife library for spawning your mobs |
| 21:02 |
VanessaE |
it has pretty extreme control options |
| 21:03 |
hmmmm |
i dunno about you, but being happy about "a hundred mobs not lagging" is pretty depressing and it makes me want to put in luajit even more |
| 21:03 |
sapier |
and it doesn't make sense to add more as minetest will loose entity client/server sync very soon as more entities are moving |
| 21:03 |
VanessaE |
I've engineered it to be quite fast, imho |
| 21:03 |
sapier |
I'll have a look at it if it fits requirements |
| 21:04 |
sapier |
stimm on mapgen spawning works fine |
| 21:04 |
sapier |
still |
| 21:04 |
VanessaE |
plants_lib can do both. |
| 21:05 |
VanessaE |
though I suppose for your case, I'd need to add another option to the API to allow a function to be executed instead of just spawning a node. |
| 21:06 |
sapier |
reading api this isn't going to work for mobs |
| 21:06 |
VanessaE |
oh well. |
| 21:06 |
VanessaE |
it was a thought. |
| 21:06 |
sapier |
yes but you place nodes |
| 21:06 |
sapier |
mobs are entities |
| 21:06 |
sapier |
sorry |
| 21:07 |
VanessaE |
I know - I can add to the API to execute arbitrary functions too |
| 21:07 |
sapier |
I need both, information about surrounding nodes and entites |
| 21:07 |
VanessaE |
(the mapgen spawner does that |
| 21:07 |
VanessaE |
) |
| 21:07 |
markveidemanis |
Im back!! |
| 21:07 |
VanessaE |
I should rename this to biome_library :-) |
| 21:07 |
sokomine |
hmm: a hundered mobs is ok. there's not much point in having more (in one spot) because you couldn't see them due to not enough space in the viewable range and animal protectors arriving to complain about mass animal keeping :-) |
| 21:07 |
sapier |
funny :-) in the end everyone uses same funcionality |
| 21:09 |
sapier |
yes and maybe update it to be able to handle entities too .. and customizable checks |
| 21:09 |
sapier |
there are some very interesting features in there |
| 21:10 |
sokomine |
interaction between plants and animals would be great in the future as well. animals may eat plants |
| 21:11 |
sapier |
would be great as currently vanessae's plants are a big problem for mobf ;-) |
| 21:11 |
VanessaE |
brb, adding to the API... |
| 21:12 |
* OldCoder |
is here for a few minutes. Will do updates tonight if anybody is available to discuss a list. |
| 21:14 |
sapier |
vanessae are you checking all that parameters on any abm call? |
| 21:15 |
VanessaE |
only those which are set |
| 21:15 |
sapier |
have you measured how long this will run in worst case? |
| 21:15 |
VanessaE |
with this tweak I'm adding for your use case, some checks will be skipped because they make no sense/ |
| 21:15 |
sapier |
what checks? |
| 21:16 |
VanessaE |
worst case is it takes about 1 second to populate every dirt with grass node with something in the active region. |
| 21:16 |
sapier |
mobf needs to check quite a lot things thats reason for not using abmx |
| 21:16 |
VanessaE |
and even then that's a bit higher than reality |
| 21:16 |
sapier |
1s will result in server crash for sure |
| 21:16 |
VanessaE |
nope. |
| 21:16 |
VanessaE |
never happens to me, |
| 21:17 |
VanessaE |
remember that there can be several thousand such nodes in the active region |
| 21:17 |
sapier |
it will if there's a mob already active |
| 21:17 |
VanessaE |
1s would be the time it takes to fill several thousand such nodes. :-) |
| 21:18 |
sapier |
maybe not on a core i7 but on a single core phenom 2.4ghz |
| 21:18 |
VanessaE |
in practice, it's more like a few hundredths of a second probably |
| 21:18 |
|
Traxie21 joined #minetest |
| 21:18 |
VanessaE |
I use a Phenom Ii X6 2.6 GHz. |
| 21:18 |
VanessaE |
II* |
| 21:18 |
sapier |
ok I'll have a trie for mobf 2.1 |
| 21:18 |
Traxie21 |
Vanessa |
| 21:19 |
sapier |
yes but all 6 cores available :-) I've reproduced the dstep problem quite predictable on a virtual machine phenom II |
| 21:19 |
VanessaE |
um |
| 21:19 |
VanessaE |
MT runs in a single core :-) |
| 21:19 |
VanessaE |
Lua isn't multithreaded. |
| 21:19 |
VanessaE |
at least not under MT. |
| 21:19 |
sapier |
exactly and this is good |
| 21:20 |
sapier |
if it was multithreaded mobs would have to add locking on lots of places |
| 21:21 |
sapier |
I'll have a try if plant_lib may be a solution for secondary (low chance) spawning ... but you'd make it possible to add entities and to add a custom check callback |
| 21:22 |
VanessaE |
sapier: there. try that out, see if that works for you |
| 21:22 |
VanessaE |
(reload API) |
| 21:22 |
sokomine |
i'm still for selling mobs through the trader and not too much spawning :-) |
| 21:23 |
VanessaE |
I don't know how to do callbacks in Lua, but with arbitrary function calls, it's about the same. |
| 21:23 |
sokomine |
(though it's difficult to imagine that traders would sell living deer. but those are great as well) |
| 21:24 |
sapier |
vanessa functions aren't different from variables |
| 21:24 |
sapier |
just define a parameter that can be set to a function |
| 21:24 |
VanessaE |
sapier: I wasn't able to figure it out when I tried earlier today. |
| 21:24 |
VanessaE |
I'm still learning the finer points of Lua |
| 21:24 |
sapier |
call that function and evaluate its result to true/false |
| 21:25 |
Traxie21 |
sapier |
| 21:25 |
VanessaE |
see how moretrees uses it in the register_generate_plant() call |
| 21:25 |
Traxie21 |
How would one test to see if a file exists, and get a true/false value from it? |
| 21:26 |
sapier |
e.g. |
| 21:26 |
sapier |
function dosomething(somevar) |
| 21:26 |
sapier |
--something done |
| 21:26 |
sapier |
return true |
| 21:26 |
sapier |
end |
| 21:26 |
sapier |
local some_variable = dosomething |
| 21:26 |
sapier |
if some_variable() == true then |
| 21:26 |
sapier |
--do something else |
| 21:26 |
sapier |
end |
| 21:26 |
markveidemanis |
HELP.. |
| 21:26 |
markveidemanis |
.i need to fork moretrees...nut im a n00b in lua |
| 21:26 |
Traxie21 |
Translating.... |
| 21:27 |
VanessaE |
sapier: been there, done that plenty of times. |
| 21:27 |
markveidemanis |
i need to make so it only adds vertical trunks and woods |
| 21:27 |
Traxie21 |
I need to fork moretrees ... nut in a noob in lua |
| 21:27 |
markveidemanis |
no acorns |
| 21:27 |
sapier |
traxie21 use os lib but I don't recomend this as any server hoster considering security most likely will want to disable os and io modules of lua |
| 21:27 |
VanessaE |
the problem is the modder using the library needs to be able to specify an arbitary function to execute |
| 21:27 |
markveidemanis |
no spawning |
| 21:27 |
VanessaE |
arbitrary |
| 21:27 |
Traxie21 |
Yikes, isnt there a better way sapier? |
| 21:27 |
VanessaE |
as in even even the name is arbitrary. |
| 21:27 |
sapier |
yes he specifies parameters atm you need to store that parameters atm too |
| 21:28 |
sapier |
traxie what do you want to do with that file ? |
| 21:28 |
Traxie21 |
simply check and see if it exists |
| 21:28 |
Traxie21 |
so that I dont get an error |
| 21:29 |
VanessaE |
markveidemanis: why are you do set against trees appearing *at mapgen time* ? |
| 21:29 |
sapier |
what file is it? another mod? |
| 21:29 |
Traxie21 |
eg: file = dofile(filename) |
| 21:29 |
Traxie21 |
No |
| 21:29 |
Traxie21 |
A txt |
| 21:29 |
Traxie21 |
if file == nil then return end |
| 21:29 |
markveidemanis |
enough trees already generated |
| 21:29 |
markveidemanis |
i just need wood to build with and make things look pretty |
| 21:29 |
sapier |
why is it possible that this file doesn't exist? |
| 21:30 |
Traxie21 |
because it is generated by the mod |
| 21:30 |
VanessaE |
markveidemanis: then use the node_defs.lua file, tweak it to work with your particular setup. |
| 21:30 |
kaeza |
Traxie21, local f = io.open(filename); if (f) then f:close(); return true; else return false; end |
| 21:30 |
Traxie21 |
io.open creates the file too |
| 21:30 |
Traxie21 |
owait |
| 21:30 |
markveidemanis |
plz help: i cant find anything |
| 21:30 |
sapier |
ok so you're already doing bad things ... so you can continue to do bad things ;-) |
| 21:30 |
VanessaE |
everything else in moretrees is geared toward actually making trees appear; node_defs.lua defined all of the nodes. |
| 21:30 |
Traxie21 |
XXDD |
| 21:30 |
VanessaE |
defines* |
| 21:30 |
Traxie21 |
Sapier, theres no better way to save variables in playerdata |
| 21:31 |
markveidemanis |
but u used name..VARIABLE..whatever |
| 21:31 |
sapier |
what do you mean with playerdata? |
| 21:31 |
kaeza |
ah hell... nvm |
| 21:31 |
markveidemanis |
making it hard to edit it |
| 21:31 |
Traxie21 |
I'm making an economy plugin |
| 21:31 |
sapier |
you may store any variable to server settings |
| 21:31 |
markveidemanis |
if it was: |
| 21:31 |
Traxie21 |
Yeah.... |
| 21:31 |
Traxie21 |
serversettings is carp |
| 21:31 |
markveidemanis |
minetest.register_node |
| 21:31 |
markveidemanis |
then i could edit it... |
| 21:31 |
Traxie21 |
for manual editing |
| 21:31 |
markveidemanis |
on #mtmt i am posting a list of changes for MarkTwain server |
| 21:31 |
sapier |
yes it is ... but having IO acces for a mod is bad on server hosters point of view |
| 21:32 |
markveidemanis |
is it +m when only ops and voiced talk? |
| 21:32 |
sapier |
I'm currently working on world based settings support |
| 21:32 |
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| 21:33 |
sapier |
it's not quite complicated but I haven't had time to finish it |
| 21:33 |
Traxie21 |
sapier, you ought to make a patch where the mods can only create files in their own directory |
| 21:33 |
Traxie21 |
Because it is ineffecient to do any other way |
| 21:33 |
LandMine |
Fuck all you fuckin queers! |
| 21:33 |
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| 21:34 |
sapier |
If at all it should be limited to world dir ... but that would require editing lua implementation itself |
| 21:34 |
LandMine |
Stfu sapier |
| 21:34 |
Traxie21 |
how about both sapier? |
| 21:34 |
Traxie21 |
It is easy to make a world-specific directory in the mod folder |
| 21:34 |
sapier |
if you run same server on multiple worlds mod folder could be used concurrent at same time |
| 21:35 |
Traxie21 |
#kazea, thanks |
| 21:35 |
|
LandMine was kicked by VanessaE: LandMine |
| 21:36 |
VanessaE |
sapier: even if it isn't something you can use, would you mind checking to see if the option I added at least works? |
| 21:36 |
sapier |
vanessae way to call a function would be: |
| 21:36 |
sapier |
plants_lib: spawn_on_surfaces({ ... custom_callback = some_user_defined_functionname } |
| 21:36 |
VanessaE |
marktraceur: do the whole damn class-B. |
| 21:36 |
marktraceur |
Meh. I can deal with one at a time. |
| 21:36 |
VanessaE |
marktraceur: he has whole ranges of IP's. |
| 21:36 |
marktraceur |
I'm OK with that. |
| 21:37 |
VanessaE |
ok |
| 21:37 |
sapier |
of couse I'll check but I can't promis when I'll have time atm |
| 21:37 |
thexyz |
that was fast! |
| 21:37 |
VanessaE |
sapier: no prob. |
| 21:38 |
VanessaE |
sapier: see, I tried doing something very much like that (the custom_callback thing) but I could not for the life of me find anything that explains in plain english how to do it in Lua -- that didn't involve some kind of hook into some kind of hypothetical C/C++ progra,m |
| 21:38 |
VanessaE |
program* |
| 21:39 |
sapier |
did that upper line help? |
| 21:39 |
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| 21:39 |
VanessaE |
sapier: I opted instead for detecting whether the modder is passing a table, a string with a node name, or a string with a function name - one variable to control them all (and in the darkness, bind them?) |
| 21:40 |
VanessaE |
sapier: so for example, |
| 21:40 |
VanessaE |
plantslib:register_generate_plant(moretrees.willow_biome, moretrees.willow_model) |
| 21:40 |
VanessaE |
versus |
| 21:40 |
VanessaE |
plantslib:register_generate_plant(moretrees.birch_biome, "moretrees:grow_birch") |
| 21:40 |
sapier |
if you do your check just add following line to your check abm: |
| 21:40 |
sapier |
if custom_callback ~= nil and |
| 21:40 |
sapier |
type(custom_callback) == "function" then |
| 21:40 |
sapier |
if custom_callback(some parameters usefull) == false then |
| 21:40 |
sapier |
-- abort |
| 21:40 |
sapier |
end |
| 21:40 |
sapier |
end |
| 21:40 |
VanessaE |
the former passes a table with a tree model, the latter passes a function name |
| 21:40 |
Traxie21 |
brb |
| 21:40 |
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| 21:41 |
sapier |
yes this is what the type check is for to avoid trying to call something that isn't a function |
| 21:41 |
VanessaE |
so in the example there (which is obviously from my moretrees mod), willows will be spawned directly by the plants_lib mod using the engine's spawn_tree() call, while birches will be spawned by having plants_lib call the moretrees:grow_birch() function. hence, it's still like a callback. |
| 21:42 |
VanessaE |
I just implemented it differently. :-0 |
| 21:42 |
VanessaE |
:-) |
| 21:42 |
VanessaE |
so I already do what you're suggestion, my syntax is just slightly different is all. |
| 21:42 |
sapier |
yes it is |
| 21:42 |
VanessaE |
suggesting* |
| 21:42 |
mauvebic |
Nakedfury i got the guns to shoot underwater lol |
| 21:43 |
VanessaE |
he's here? :) |
| 21:43 |
sapier |
true so the called function may do additional checks |
| 21:43 |
mauvebic |
i thot i saw the name in the userlist |
| 21:43 |
VanessaE |
sapier: precisely, and it would be the thing that *actually* adds the object/entity/node/whatever |
| 21:44 |
sapier |
so I most likely will be able to test it |
| 21:44 |
VanessaE |
you asked what checks get skipped if it's a function: plants_lib won't pay attention to the flags that set spawning on the sides/bottom/top of a node or replaces one, because those obviously have no purpose in that case. |
| 21:45 |
sapier |
but I'm not quite sure if I'll be using much of your code in this case anymore ;-) wouldn't be usefull if just replacing a slow abm by a even bigger one ;-) ... but I'll look at it first |
| 21:45 |
sapier |
good :-) this isn't usefull true |
| 21:45 |
VanessaE |
no prob - remember that lots of code doesn't necessarily translate to slow code :-) |
| 21:46 |
sapier |
i know but lots of api calls translate to slow code for sure :-) |
| 21:46 |
VanessaE |
true, in theory :-) |
| 21:46 |
sapier |
in practice too ... especialy if its a get_node or set_node api call |
| 21:47 |
sapier |
but sometimes minetest behaves strange :-) |
| 21:48 |
sapier |
I wonder if it'd be possible to add a mod tracing layer between api and lua code |
| 21:48 |
VanessaE |
which is why I tried to minimize the number of such calls and group them to take advantage of caching and whatnot |
| 21:49 |
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| 21:50 |
sapier |
yes a good idea :-) I still have to persuade celeron that dtime limiting is superior to limiting acceleration to < 5 blocks per second ;-) |
| 21:50 |
VanessaE |
for example, in my register_generate_plants() function, all those checks used to be kinda co-mingled with that final find_nodes_near() call (line 121). Even though the same amount of code was being executed, moving all of those other checks into a sort of preprocessing loop chopped the execution time by 95% or more. |
| 21:51 |
sapier |
find nodes near doesn't result a list of all nodes and positions requested to i remember correctly? |
| 21:51 |
VanessaE |
actually it does generate something like that |
| 21:51 |
sapier |
does it? |
| 21:51 |
VanessaE |
that's the output of the preprocessing step |
| 21:52 |
sapier |
you create a list of all node types relevant for checking in first step do i understand correct? |
| 21:52 |
VanessaE |
what comes out of that step is literally a list of every node (position) that meets all of the biome criteria. |
| 21:53 |
sapier |
ok so I'm wrong |
| 21:53 |
VanessaE |
then the program just checks how many objects need to be spawned in the resultant area, and tries to do so. |
| 21:53 |
sapier |
how to you get that information? |
| 21:53 |
sapier |
information about nodes |
| 21:54 |
VanessaE |
it has a give-up threshold of three tries per spawn attempt, so worst case it'll only try maybe 40-50 nodes per 80x80x80 chunk for a typical register_generate_plants() call. |
| 21:54 |
VanessaE |
it uses various perlin layers and a couple of find_nodes_in_area() calls |
| 21:54 |
sapier |
yes I'm doing same on mapgen |
| 21:54 |
VanessaE |
and some simple random number checks. |
| 21:54 |
sapier |
without perlin |
| 21:55 |
sapier |
ok my primary concern is other mobs nearby so i use get_objects ... |
| 21:56 |
sapier |
but it's esentially same |
| 21:56 |
VanessaE |
that's one thing that plants_lib doesn't do, directly, but then if you have ot specify a function to execute on spawn, you can do that check there. |
| 21:56 |
sapier |
yes I thought so |
| 21:57 |
VanessaE |
it* |
| 21:57 |
sapier |
but still I don't quite understand how you get information about nodes around an arbitrary position selected for spawning |
| 21:57 |
VanessaE |
by checking the entire map chunk for candidate nodes first. |
| 21:58 |
sapier |
what defines a candidate? |
| 21:59 |
VanessaE |
temperature, humidity, elevation, ground fertility, distance to/from some node you specify, how rare (or not) your object shall be |
| 21:59 |
sapier |
in a 3d loop for all nodes? |
| 21:59 |
VanessaE |
using find_nodes_in_area() first according to your desired spawn surface. |
| 22:00 |
VanessaE |
local searchnodes = minetest.env:find_nodes_in_area(minp, maxp, biome.surface) |
| 22:00 |
VanessaE |
searchnodes is then whittled down using the other variables. |
| 22:00 |
sapier |
you're brave :-) |
| 22:00 |
VanessaE |
so basically, C++ does all of the grunt work |
| 22:01 |
VanessaE |
if you pass default:dirt_with_grass to that function, then only a list of dirt_with_grass nodes will be checked by the rest of the preprocessing loop. |
| 22:01 |
sapier |
yes but you still get hundreds of nodes if your biome contains air/water/stone |
| 22:01 |
VanessaE |
the biome only contains one node first, then the others are tested to see if they're nearby |
| 22:01 |
sapier |
hmm this might work for birds |
| 22:02 |
VanessaE |
the caller has to decide which nodes are/are not important to look for, and in a way it also decides which node has more priority over the others. |
| 22:02 |
sapier |
ok default:warer_source will be enough in most cases too |
| 22:02 |
VanessaE |
sure,if you check for said with air as a neighbor, and then check for proximity to water, you can then call your arbitrary function to spawn a seagull above the shoreline |
| 22:02 |
sapier |
I wonder how much cpu power would be used to spawn fish doing it this way |
| 22:02 |
VanessaE |
sand with air above.. |
| 22:03 |
VanessaE |
well, |
| 22:03 |
VanessaE |
water with say dirt as a neighbor might work. |
| 22:03 |
VanessaE |
or say dirt or stone as neighbors. |
| 22:03 |
VanessaE |
you get the idea. |
| 22:04 |
VanessaE |
even water isn't such a chore to check, flowers mod does this for waterlilies and seaweed. |
| 22:04 |
sapier |
yes for some things it'll work ... as always you can't have anything :-) |
| 22:04 |
VanessaE |
(but then, I check for water with air as a neighbor) |
| 22:05 |
sapier |
I'll try and see |
| 22:05 |
VanessaE |
have fun with it :-) |
| 22:06 |
VanessaE |
let me know if that function option works right, since I don't have anything predictable to test it with right now. |
| 22:07 |
sapier |
I'll do ... you most likely will be able to test it yourself too as I'll have it at least as optional spawning method after adapting it :-) I never remove features completely |
| 22:08 |
VanessaE |
oh ok |
| 22:08 |
sapier |
there's jordan4ibanez movegen in mobf and a variant doing essentially same as celerons mobs too ... but they're not used for anything as I don't like their movement style :-) |
| 22:08 |
* VanessaE |
wonders what celeron55 thinks of plants_lib |
| 22:09 |
VanessaE |
<celeron55> its horrible, slow and buggy. boring. |
| 22:09 |
VanessaE |
;) |
| 22:09 |
sapier |
:-) I already know that celeron thinks mobf is far to complex :-) and he is true you can't understand what it's doing in 2 days |
| 22:09 |
VanessaE |
haha |
| 22:10 |
hmmmm |
i'd rather have buggy interesting stuff than boring stuff that works right all the time |
| 22:10 |
sapier |
I'd be glad with boring working entity client/server sync ;-P |
| 22:10 |
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| 22:10 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: the question then is, is it interesting or boring ;) |
| 22:10 |
hmmmm |
nah that was a celeron quote |
| 22:10 |
VanessaE |
oh heh |
| 22:10 |
sapier |
yes but it was directed to mapgen ;-P |
| 22:11 |
hmmmm |
i still think it can apply to other things in life |
| 22:11 |
sapier |
especialy the one block needles if I remember correct |
| 22:11 |
VanessaE |
indeed, it can |
| 22:11 |
sapier |
yes |
| 22:11 |
VanessaE |
oh yes now I remember that comment. |
| 22:11 |
sapier |
but I'm german we like efficient working things too ;-P |
| 22:12 |
hmmmm |
i'm not german but i really like efficiency |
| 22:12 |
VanessaE |
"Early!? Planes are supposed to be late! It's that damn German efficiency." |
| 22:12 |
|
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| 22:13 |
VanessaE |
(James Cagney, "One, Two, Three") |
| 22:13 |
hmmmm |
haha |
| 22:13 |
sapier |
Oh we're learning very fast have a look at berlin airport it'll be late by aproximatly 4 years ... at least atm maybe it'll be 5 or 6 in the end |
| 22:13 |
VanessaE |
lol |
| 22:14 |
VanessaE |
damn it, and I just realized I botched that quote :)_ |
| 22:14 |
sapier |
things like that happen if politicians do things a engeneer should have done |
| 22:16 |
VanessaE |
heh |
| 22:17 |
sapier |
heh? any politicians in here? :_) |
| 22:17 |
sapier |
:-) |
| 22:19 |
marktraceur |
sapier: We're *all* politicians. |
| 22:19 |
* marktraceur |
high-fives his college politics professor |
| 22:21 |
sapier |
:-) so you have to be able to cope with that most ppl assume you're lieing as soon as you're talking ... thats requirement for this job ;-P |
| 22:23 |
marktraceur |
sapier: Everybody lies. I learned that from my favourite doctor. |
| 22:23 |
* marktraceur |
high-fives House. |
| 22:24 |
hmmmm |
you know i think i'm going to try RCU for checking if a block is present in memory |
| 22:24 |
sapier |
yes ... but it's too obvious for most politicians |
| 22:24 |
hmmmm |
that would completely eliminate the need for envlock in lots of cases |
| 22:24 |
sapier |
RCU as remote control unit? |
| 22:24 |
hmmmm |
read-copy-update |
| 22:24 |
VanessaE |
how hard would that be? |
| 22:25 |
hmmmm |
not sure |
| 22:25 |
sapier |
"eleminate the need for envlock" I'm completely positive with this suggestion ;-) |
| 22:25 |
hmmmm |
in _some_ code paths |
| 22:25 |
hmmmm |
not all |
| 22:25 |
VanessaE |
then we get to look forward to multithreaded Lua later, right? ??? ;-) |
| 22:25 |
VanessaE |
(kidding!) |
| 22:25 |
hmmmm |
yeah, that's later, sorry |
| 22:25 |
sapier |
you can't do everything at once ... but it's step in right direction at least in my oppinion |
| 22:26 |
hmmmm |
i feel that if emergethread has unnecessary locking gone it would be super fast |
| 22:26 |
sapier |
vanessae it's not that kidding as you thing, I've already thought about how it could be done |
| 22:26 |
hmmmm |
and map would load instantly |
| 22:26 |
VanessaE |
sapier: I'm kidding because I don't dare ask someone to put forth that kind of work |
| 22:26 |
hmmmm |
well there is already a plan for multithreaded lua in the works |
| 22:26 |
VanessaE |
turning a single-threaded system into a multithreaded system is not an easy task usuall. |
| 22:26 |
VanessaE |
+y |
| 22:27 |
sapier |
entities for example would greatly benefit if their on_step handlers could run in parallel |
| 22:27 |
hmmmm |
but they have separate interpreters |
| 22:27 |
hmmmm |
one for on_generate, and one for the usual mods |
| 22:27 |
VanessaE |
hm |
| 22:27 |
VanessaE |
I like that |
| 22:27 |
hmmmm |
we were talking about it in -dev a month or something ago |
| 22:28 |
sapier |
I'm not quite sure ... I think this requires more thinking about |
| 22:28 |
VanessaE |
I don't remember the conversation (which is sad, because no doubt I had something or another to say about it ;-) ) |
| 22:30 |
sapier |
if there's multithreaded lua I demand lua based locking mechanisms ! :-) |
| 22:31 |
sapier |
hmmmm having different interpreters would mean having different namespaces too am i correct? |
| 22:31 |
VanessaE |
I don't see why that would be necessaru |
| 22:31 |
VanessaE |
necessary*( |
| 22:31 |
sapier |
no this was a question |
| 22:31 |
VanessaE |
you already know which piece of code has to be executed by virtue of the function/callback you're calling |
| 22:32 |
sapier |
I was thinking towards global variables |
| 22:32 |
VanessaE |
ah |
| 22:33 |
sapier |
if there are different interpretest separating global variables I'd have a huge problem with mobf ... mobs are specified as tables who's pointer is only valid in context of this interpreter but maybe not within mapgen interpreter |
| 22:35 |
sapier |
there would be ways to workaround this ... but it'd be ugly |
| 22:40 |
VanessaE |
plantlife is similar in that regard, with trees |
| 22:59 |
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| 23:26 |
hmmmm |
sapier, on_generate shouldn't have to bother with any of the other bits of lua... |
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jojoa1997 |
is it possible to edit the jump height of players |
