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IRC log for #minetest, 2013-01-29

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:05 jojoa1997 joined #minetest
00:22 hmmmm Drop the GNU, just Linux
00:22 hmmmm or
00:22 marktraceur hmmmm: Why d'you think that?
00:22 hmmmm No, Richard, it's "Linux", not "GNU/Linux"
00:22 marktraceur Same question
00:22 hmmmm this has been debated to death
00:23 marktraceur hmmmm: And yet we're still alive
00:23 marktraceur May as well do science
00:23 hmmmm richard stallman is the one who champions saying GNU/Linux
00:23 hmmmm it's not like the 'correct' name
00:24 marktraceur hmmmm: Why would you say it's any less correct than assuming that GNU is part of the Linux project?
00:24 hmmmm I'd say it comes down to preference
00:24 iqualfragile marktraceur: you know whats harmfull to linux?
00:24 iqualfragile you.
00:24 hmmmm If you like saying GNU/ every time then I guess it's just as good
00:25 hmmmm ganoooo ganoooooo ganooooo
00:25 marktraceur iqualfragile: Another statement that could use some support. Why do you think that?
00:25 hmmmm iqualfragile:  I'd just like to interject for a moment
00:25 hmmmm What you're referring to as Linux is actually GNU/Linux, or as i've recently taken to calling it, GNU + Linux
00:25 * hmmmm cue copypasta
00:25 iqualfragile its just that you people dont like to say gnu/linux
00:26 marktraceur hmmmm: No, I think this is important actually. Is it really just as valid to say that GNU is a part of Linux as it is to say that they're two projects that work together?
00:26 hmmmm they are two projects that work together
00:26 iqualfragile it are two projects that work together bu
00:26 marktraceur And yet, commonly, people say the former.
00:26 iqualfragile t i dont reffer to my os as pidgin/kde/gnu/linux
00:26 hmmmm marktraceur, there are lots of projects that work with Linux to make the distros we see today
00:27 hmmmm doesn't mean they need to be included
00:27 hmmmm what about Xorg?
00:27 hmmmm why don't you say Xorg/GNU/Linux?
00:27 iqualfragile ah, right
00:27 marktraceur iqualfragile: If pidgin and KDE were part of the OS, I would agree that were important
00:27 marktraceur Xorg is the same
00:27 hmmmm Xorg is not part of the OS?
00:27 hmmmm the entire universe revolves around Xorg pretty much
00:27 marktraceur GNU and Linux both deal with sufficiently low-level constructs to qualify as operating system components.
00:27 marktraceur Xorg does not.
00:28 jin_xi lol
00:28 hmmmm GNU is too irrelevant to be made part of the title
00:28 iqualfragile so im using KDE/Xorg/prop.nvidea_firmware_blob/GNU/Linux
00:28 marktraceur hmmmm: In what way is GNU irrelevant?
00:28 hmmmm because the coreutils could've easily come from somewhere else
00:28 Rabbi_Bob joined #minetest
00:28 hmmmm they're not exactly huge parts
00:28 iqualfragile & dont get me started on hurd
00:28 hmmmm look at Android for example
00:28 marktraceur hmmmm: That doesn't change where they came from, and it's not only coreutils.
00:29 iqualfragile what else?
00:29 hmmmm marktraceur, but how does that make it necessary to say "GNU/"
00:29 hmmmm i don't get it
00:29 iqualfragile in fact i did rather say kde/linux
00:29 hmmmm the Linux people commonly use includes Xorg
00:29 iqualfragile realy
00:29 marktraceur iqualfragile: glibc, gcc, lots of other really vital components.
00:29 iqualfragile that sounds descriptive
00:29 hmmmm marktraceur:  gcc can easily be replaced by pcc and clang
00:30 hmmmm glibc is replaced by ulibc in some distributions focused on being lightweight
00:30 iqualfragile kde/linux
00:30 hmmmm they aren't necessary pieces of linux at all
00:30 marktraceur hmmmm: That doesn't change the fact that most distributions *use* those components
00:30 hmmmm you seem quite defensive about this
00:30 hmmmm it also doesn't change the fact that most distros *use* Xorg and KDE or GNOME as well
00:31 iqualfragile just: why would you call something gnu/linux, as you are stating yourself: everybody is using the gnutools
00:31 iqualfragile its just simplification
00:31 iqualfragile it makes more sense to specify the de, realy
00:31 iqualfragile lxdm/linux
00:31 marktraceur hmmmm: You could replace Linux with BSD, so why not call it Ubuntu BSD?
00:31 Uberi|Away I'd like a Ubuntu BSD
00:32 hmmmm that has been done with Gentoo, Debian, and now Arch
00:32 iqualfragile no, you cant just replace the kernel
00:32 iqualfragile (without loss of hardware compatibility and features)
00:32 marktraceur iqualfragile: It takes some work, of course, but so would replacing GNU with BusyBox.
00:32 marktraceur (and PCC and ulibc and whatever else)
00:33 hmmmm but if you're so focused on correctness, why do you argue that "most" distributions use GNU
00:33 iqualfragile marktraceur: this discussion, why do we have it? it wont lead to any result and just annoys me, realy
00:33 marktraceur iqualfragile: You don't have to be part of it
00:33 marktraceur hmmmm: I don't argue that. I say GNU when it is GNU.
00:34 hmmmm okay, then good enough
00:34 hmmmm just leave it like that
00:34 hmmmm so you know why we say Linux just like Linux
00:34 iqualfragile and dont fag arount when we just use linux
00:34 hmmmm because it refers to any operating system that uses the Linux kernel
00:34 marktraceur hmmmm: But it's more than Linux. It's more than that.
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00:34 iqualfragile wronk
00:34 hmmmm marktraceur:  But Windows is more than windows
00:34 hmmmm and BSD is more than BSD
00:34 hmmmm so what?
00:34 iqualfragile its more that you think of when you hear linux
00:34 marktraceur iqualfragile: You use *only* Linux? How do you get anything done?
00:35 hmmmm Did you know that your water has more than water in it?
00:35 iqualfragile "reading" is a helpfull skill
00:35 marktraceur Hm.
00:35 iqualfragile but its exactly what we think of when we hear linux
00:35 hmmmm you should say "Bacteria-Dust-Nanoparticles-Chlorine-Water"
00:35 iqualfragile and you know that
00:35 marktraceur hmmmm: If there were an appreciable amount of something else in it, I would call it by a modified name. e.g. carbonated water.
00:35 mauvebic http://www.zimg.eu/i/493627853 <- big one
00:36 iqualfragile dont forget the calcium
00:36 hmmmm but GNU isn't as appreciable as an amount as Xorg.
00:36 hmmmm this keeps going in circles
00:36 marktraceur iqualfragile: How does your shared misconception make your statement any more true?
00:36 iqualfragile thats what makes language
00:36 iqualfragile its not set in stone
00:36 marktraceur hmmmm: If you can find some reason Xorg should be considered part of an operating system, I'd be interested to see that
00:37 hmmmm marktraceur:  Well why should GNU be considered part of an operating system?
00:37 iqualfragile "you use only linux and gnu? how do you get anything done"?
00:37 hmmmm indeed
00:37 hmmmm how do you get anything done with GNonsense
00:37 jin_xi idk, fsf supporter here, but still i wont bother with typing gnu/foo
00:37 marktraceur iqualfragile: I also use other software on top of it that interfaces with both in order to interact with computer hardware.
00:37 iqualfragile when a lot of people use a word for one meaning then it gets that meaning
00:38 iqualfragile then referr to it correctly!
00:38 marktraceur hmmmm: Because it's the basis for the entire system. It defines how programs interact, how the system deals with most basic constructs, and more.
00:38 iqualfragile you are not talking about posix are you?
00:38 hmmmm No it doesn't, Linux does that
00:38 marktraceur iqualfragile: That's simply not true. I mean, maybe those people *understand* the meaning. But the meaning isn't changed.
00:39 iqualfragile it is changed
00:39 marktraceur hmmmm: Linux does some of it. Large parts of the system are run by GNU.
00:39 hmmmm Such as?
00:39 * marktraceur just went over this in part
00:39 iqualfragile thats how language works, sadly im unable to give an example in the english language
00:39 hmmmm not really
00:39 iqualfragile bit i have one for german:
00:39 hmmmm you said it "defines" how the programs interact
00:39 iqualfragile geil meant horny some years ago
00:40 hmmmm POSIX defines that, Linux implements the IPC syscalls
00:40 iqualfragile but now we use geil to express that we thik somethig is cool
00:40 iqualfragile the meaning has shifted
00:40 marktraceur hmmmm: https://www.gnu.org/software/software.html has all the software included in the system
00:41 marktraceur Some of those aren't included in a basic install of GNU/Linux, but a lot of them are pretty basic software.
00:41 hmmmm so you're saying "basic software" is what GNU does for Linux?
00:42 * marktraceur doesn't know how much clearer it can be
00:42 hmmmm but you still haven't mentioned how it's the basis though
00:42 hmmmm it seems like "basic software" could be a hello world
00:42 hmmmm doesn't mean it's necessary OR useful
00:42 jin_xi i don't think its about technical stuff... I think RMS should have embraced linux as a name when he made the han solo and the rebel fleet speech
00:42 shirish joined #minetest
00:42 marktraceur hmmmm: "The system's basic components include the GNU Compiler Collection (GCC), the GNU C library (glibc), and GNU Core Utilities (coreutils),[1] but also the GNU Debugger (GDB), GNU Binary Utilities (binutils),[26] the bash shell[21][27] and the GNOME desktop environment."
00:43 hmmmm marktraceur, so you're saying that Linux can't be used without any of that?
00:43 marktraceur hmmmm: Without a compiler? I'd wish you luck.
00:43 hmmmm marktraceur, I already said there are plenty of compilers to choose from
00:43 marktraceur That's true.
00:43 hmmmm The point is that GNU adds __NOTHING__ that is necessary for Linux
00:43 marktraceur And if you use a different compiler, and a different everything else, then it's not GNU/Linux.
00:43 jin_xi look at gcc discussions: tons of technical reasons to open up, RMS says: the fsf campaigns for freedom
00:44 hmmmm marktraceur, but it's not a part of the OS any more than anything else is like Xorg
00:44 hmmmm see?
00:44 sdzen joined #minetest
00:44 hmmmm that was your argument why GNU needed to be included but nothing else should be
00:44 marktraceur hmmmm: glibc _defines how the system gets used_. It doesn't get much more basic than that.
00:44 hmmmm "defines"?
00:45 hmmmm it certainly doesn't "define" anything,
00:45 hmmmm POSIX defines it
00:45 marktraceur No wait, I'm wrong. gcc creates the system.
00:45 hmmmm And so does clang
00:45 hmmmm It's nonsense.  Your argument is nonsense.
00:45 iqualfragile well, good night then
00:45 marktraceur hmmmm: glibc defines the way C programs use the system, sorry, I misspoke.
00:45 jin_xi https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2012-12/msg00072.html
00:45 hmmmm marktraceur:  No, POSIX defines everything
00:45 Menche joined #minetest
00:45 hmmmm glibc is an implementation of defined standards
00:46 hmmmm It's not a necessary part of Linux at all.
00:46 marktraceur hmmmm: And GNU in general is an implementation of UNIX-y standards. But that doesn't make it UNIX.
00:46 marktraceur hmmmm: Did I say GNU was a part of Linux?
00:46 hmmmm You said it was necessary to make Linux usable
00:46 marktraceur There's a reason I'm standing here telling you to use two names. They're separate.
00:46 marktraceur hmmmm: I said Linux alone would be unusable. I didn't say *only GNU* will make it useful.
00:46 marktraceur BusyBox and BSD also help.
00:47 hmmmm Linux alone is not unusable.
00:47 hmmmm You can use it just fine.
00:47 marktraceur hmmmm: Technically true, but ultimately you'll need to e.g. use a command line or open a text editor.
00:47 marktraceur Modern computing requires more than a kernel.
00:47 hmmmm And you're ultimately going to need a GUI too right?
00:48 marktraceur Ultimately, you can use a GUI, it's true.
00:48 hmmmm So what is it, Xorg/GNU/Linux or just Linux?
00:48 hmmmm Your call.
00:48 hmmmm Xfce/Xorg/GNU/Linux make that
00:48 marktraceur hmmmm: Xorg, I maintain, is not basic enough to be called part of the OS.
00:48 hmmmm Neither is GNU.
00:49 hmmmm I just demonstrated why.
00:49 hmmmm GNU is not part of the OS.  Linux is an OS on its own.
00:49 hmmmm It just so happens that GNU has some set of tools that a distribution may elect to bundle together to make Linux easier to use
00:49 marktraceur hmmmm: We've just been over this. Compilers and basic C libraries are part of the OS. So are linkers. Want to talk about GUIs? Most people use some form of GNOME, and the G stands for GNU also.
00:49 hmmmm No, they aren't.
00:50 hmmmm You don't need a C library at all to be part of the OS.
00:50 marktraceur hmmmm: You can hold your ears shut and say "no it's not no it's not" all you want.
00:50 hmmmm And so could you, which is what you've been doing for the past half hour
00:50 marktraceur hmmmm: I've been trying to explain that a C library and a compiler are necessary, vital, basic components of an OS. You just keep saying "nuh-uh" as if it were some deep wisdom.
00:51 hmmmm If I didn't prompt you to go deeper into why, the discussion would've never gone to this depth and would've remained stupid
00:51 hmmmm marktraceur:  A C library isn't necessary because you could just as well use some different language
00:52 hmmmm Each of the programs you execute could have their own C library in them as well
00:52 marktraceur hmmmm: But nobody does. Or at least, GNU/Linux distros don't. You can't talk about non-GNU/Linux as an example, because that's not what we're discussing.
00:52 hmmmm But that's not the point if people do or don't.
00:52 marktraceur It's whether people can or not?
00:52 hmmmm That's right
00:53 marktraceur Well, then I'll just start calling Ubuntu Mac OS 9.
00:53 hmmmm Have fun.
00:53 marktraceur You could theoretically replace one with the other, so they must be the same thing.
00:53 hmmmm Sure.
00:53 marktraceur It sure is nice being a Mac OS 9 user, wouldn't you say?
00:53 hmmmm You're trying to make what I said absurd, but it's really not working.
00:54 hmmmm My point is that because it's possible to run Linux without any of those things, Linux must be considered a complete OS
00:54 marktraceur hmmmm: I don't really care, you've proven that names are infinitely interchangeable and I've moved on to the amusement that that provides.
00:54 hmmmm Have fun.  I'm pretty sure you're going to be the only person who does such
00:54 marktraceur Almost certainly.
00:55 hmmmm So, why is it that you're so adamant about this?
00:55 marktraceur I really am glad that HP made this new version of Mac OS, though. They really flaired it out with this Unity interface.
00:55 hmmmm It is really irritating
00:55 marktraceur hmmmm: No, no. There's nothing wrong about it, technically.
00:55 Rabbi_Bob Anyone have the install media for Precise Mountain Pangolin Lion?
00:56 hmmmm It would really be nice if you just didn't pop in and say "you mean Ganoo/luncks" every time someone says linux
00:56 marktraceur Rabbi_Bob: I heard that Oracle would be releasing it in February.
00:56 marktraceur Rabbi_Bob: Their subsidiary Google is hard at work on the new version.
00:56 Rabbi_Bob Right after they fix Java, awesome.
00:56 bas080 joined #minetest
00:57 marktraceur Rabbi_Bob: Are you daft? Canonical bought Java fifteen years ago.
00:57 Uberi :O
00:57 * Rabbi_Bob taps VanessaE on the shoulder
00:57 marktraceur hmmmm: No, I'm cool with it, infinitely interchangeable names are fun.
00:57 Uberi which universe am I in
00:57 Rabbi_Bob We're exiting the total linux perspective vortex right about now Uberi
00:58 marktraceur Let's just get back to SuperTuxKart chatter. Maybe somebody has some mod questions? I'm rather skilled in Lisp, so I can help.
00:58 Uberi I knew I shouldn't have opened that suitcase, Rabbi_Bob
00:59 sdzen Uberi: I thought the same thing when I walked into that wardrobe
00:59 marktraceur Ooh, I love Edgar Allan Poe.
00:59 Uberi or narnia, perhaps
00:59 marktraceur I mean, the Narnia books were all right, but the Eragon series is where he really hit his stride.
01:03 Uberi eragon was pretty good
01:03 marktraceur It did seem a bit derivative of Tolkein's "Grapes of Wrath", though.
01:03 Uberi :P
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01:08 babyface1031 what would cause ppl to timeour logging in to a server?
01:08 sdzen lots of things
01:08 OnlyHuman gnight
01:08 marktraceur babyface1031: Common issue is that they're already logged in somewhere else
01:09 babyface1031 multiple ppl on a server are trying to log in but keep timeing out
01:09 marktraceur Maybe there's a limit as to the number of connections there can be at once
01:09 babyface1031 theres been more ppl on before
01:10 shirish joined #minetest
01:10 marktraceur I dunno, then. Maybe there's some problem with their connection.
01:10 babyface1031 ok
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01:21 Kacey joined #minetest
01:22 Kacey hi guys
01:26 Menche hi
01:28 Kacey !up menche.servegame.com 30001
01:28 Minetest-tan menche.servegame.com:30001 seems to be down
01:28 Kacey have you reset the map yet?
01:29 Menche !up menche.servegame.com 30001
01:29 Minetest-tan menche.servegame.com:30001 is up (0.298ms)
01:29 Menche thinking of just installing protector mod and calling it done
01:30 Kacey that could work...
01:30 Menche it would probably be temporary
01:30 Menche or, rely on rollback
01:30 jojoa1997 joined #minetest
01:30 Kacey no more creative?
01:30 jojoa1997 !hi all
01:30 jojoa1997 opps
01:31 jojoa1997 hi all
01:31 Kacey afk dinner
01:31 jojoa1997 kacey no more creative where
01:31 Menche on my server
01:31 jojoa1997 ip and port
01:32 Menche menche.servegame.com:30001, may be changed to 30000 in the future
01:32 jojoa1997 joining
01:32 Menche will grant privs
01:32 jojoa1997 k
01:33 Menche soon as i load...
01:38 simion314 joined #minetest
01:50 * kaeza yawns
01:50 kaeza hello channel
01:51 marktraceur kaeza: Hello!
01:52 kaeza what did I miss besides the usual terminology wars?
01:52 marktraceur kaeza: Oh, not much of anything. Just the usual BosWars channel discussions.
01:58 kaeza ah good, good.
02:02 rsiska joined #minetest
02:10 Kacey hi kaeza
02:22 Kacey hello?
02:23 kaeza hey
02:23 marktraceur kaeza: Damn, you ruined it. I have a continuing hope that people who come in and say "Hello? Hello?" will think that they're the last remaining people on IRC.
02:24 kaeza hah
02:24 kaeza unintentional troll
02:25 kaeza Kacey, http://youtu.be/yM6RtQyfKII
02:25 Kacey i watched that already lol
02:32 jojoa1997 joined #minetest
02:33 NekoGloop joined #minetest
02:34 NekoGloop Goooood evening all!
02:34 * The_Persona puts a kitten on NekoGloop's head
02:34 * NekoGloop purrs
02:38 * Kacey needs a kitten
02:40 * The_Persona dumps a truckload of kittens on Kacey
02:40 * Kacey finds a cute little one and walks off
02:41 Kacey http://stuffpoint.com/kittens/image/150748-kittens-cute-kitten.jpg looks like this
02:41 The_Persona d'aww
02:42 NekoGloop Ignore list still goin' strong
02:42 ShadowNinja joined #minetest
02:42 The_Persona how many entries, NekoGloop?
02:42 NekoGloop One. "Kacey!*@*"
02:43 The_Persona NekoGloop: no room for LandMine? :P
02:43 NekoGloop He's not on often enough
02:43 Kacey landmine needs ip banned
02:43 The_Persona nah we tried a bunch of times
02:44 YoungDerp tehe NekoGloop
02:44 NakedFury all it needs is less attention
02:44 NekoGloop Oh hey, something to /whois for an IP.
02:44 YoungDerp i can change ips really efficiently
02:46 The_Persona yep, IPs are terrible for unique IDs of a physical computer
02:46 kaeza creative SEO spammer? http://forum.minetest.net/profile.php?id=4156
02:47 The_Persona nah he/she seems like an actual user
02:50 hmmmm http://ompldr.org/vaDlucg/screenshot_2218054327.png
02:50 hmmmm oh god i am not good wit computer how did i do this
02:51 NekoGloop that is FUCKING AWESOME
02:51 Menche How?!?!?!
02:51 Menche whoa
02:52 hmmmm http://ompldr.org/vaDludA/screenshot_2150468012.png
02:52 hmmmm i am in a different dimension
02:53 Uberi|MC worldedit, hmmmm?
02:53 NekoGloop YOU HAVE FOUND THE SKY DIMENSION
02:53 hmmmm no
02:53 NekoGloop goddammit caps lock.
02:53 Uberi|MC or maybe multinode superquadratics
02:53 NekoGloop or maybe edited mapgen
02:54 hmmmm i am screwing around with 3d noise.. that's going to be the basis of the Aether biome
02:54 Menche that must be added to default, at like +1000 maybe
02:55 NekoGloop lol aether.
02:57 hmmmm it's not bad, i can generate an 80x80x80 node chunk in about 80ms
02:57 hmmmm very viable
02:57 hmmmm and this is with debug enabled
02:57 Uberi|MC oh sweet aether biome
02:58 NekoGloop That's a lot of 80's.
02:58 Menche in c++ or lua?
02:58 Uberi|MC hmmmm: 80ms? C++ then?
02:58 hmmmm c++ obviously
02:58 Uberi|MC I can't imagine doing 80x80x80 in lua
02:58 hmmmm but i guess it won't be too obvious once the ManualMapVoxelManipulator Lua interface gets done
02:58 hmmmm my goal is to eventually be able to do this sort of stuff in Lua
02:58 hmmmm reasonably
02:59 Kacey night all
02:59 Kacey go to sleep
02:59 hmmmm it's only 10
02:59 hmmmm pft
03:00 NekoGloop Lemme guess, <Kacey> go to sleep
03:00 Uberi|MC very good, NekoGloop
03:01 NekoGloop So predictable :D
03:03 hmmmm so microsoft office 2013 is going to be released tomorrow
03:03 Uberi|MC what
03:03 hmmmm who's hosting an Office party?
03:09 Uberi|MC ...
03:09 NekoGloop Quitter.
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03:13 hmmmm winners don't do drugs
03:19 mauvebic didn't the US last president do blow in his youth?
03:19 mauvebic *last US lol
03:19 hmmmm yeah and look at him, he's a loser
03:20 mauvebic theres not much more you can win in life than the presidency lol
03:20 hmmmm but the arcade machine said so
03:20 mauvebic well im against hard drugs but i dont consider 420 to be worse than alcohol, though all in all, i say legalize and tax it all
03:21 mauvebic right now the money's flowing from crime org's to political parties in the form of donations, thats hardly better
03:23 mauvebic http://goo.gl/V5Dcp :p
03:25 mauvebic yuck! -> http://cheezburger.com/6997590272
03:26 NekoGloop That actually looks good
03:26 mauvebic ewww
03:27 mauvebic when i was in highschool they at least filled out those trays a bit more but now you get a pile of pasta on one side and a bit sauce on the other lol
03:28 mauvebic they also used to cost 4-5$ instead of the 2$ now
03:30 mauvebic http://cheezburger.com/7000912896 lol
03:58 NekoGloop lolhequit
04:00 OldCoder ?
04:01 NekoGloop quit messages.
04:01 NekoGloop some people read them.
04:01 NekoGloop ;-)
04:02 OldCoder k
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06:12 VanessaE hey Taoki.
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06:39 * OldCoder is sleeping
06:39 VanessaE wake up!
06:39 VanessaE :)
06:40 * OldCoder stirs but does not wake
06:47 kaeza 4 teh lulz! https://dl.dropbox.com/u/100008207/ssss/screenshot_2228648488.jpg
07:02 VanessaE heh
07:13 kaeza srsly my brain hurts... http://cheezburger.com/6983741952
07:14 VanessaE oh that'll mess with your mind.
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08:02 VanessaE zzz
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08:32 hmmmm :-)!!
08:32 hmmmm feels good when everything is working great
08:33 hmmmm i have one last bug i have to tackle but i'm not really sure where to start..... i should ask people if they have the same problem too first
08:33 VanessaE ?
08:33 hmmmm heh
08:33 hmmmm vanessa, do you have debug logging enabled?
08:33 hmmmm or rather i should say, did you not disable it?
08:33 VanessaE logging, yes
08:33 VanessaE -rw-rw-r--  1 vanessa vanessa 1032736913 Jan 29 03:34 debug-server.txt
08:34 VanessaE does that answer your question? :)
08:34 hmmmm look in there and tell me what the last line you see is
08:34 VanessaE 03:35:35: VERBOSE[ServerThread]: Server: Handling peer change: id=2, timeout=0
08:34 VanessaE LOTS of those in fact.
08:34 hmmmm and this is like the newest version right?
08:34 VanessaE yes
08:34 hmmmm reall goddamn odd
08:34 hmmmm want to hear the problem i'm having
08:34 VanessaE commit bcc0ca93d463ec7bdf6ff1ef621f7777014c404a
08:35 VanessaE sure
08:35 VanessaE I've been seeing "unknown" users showing up lately.
08:35 hmmmm well whenever line 129 in biome.cpp executes, that is, it prints something to the verbose screen, the logging seems to freeze up
08:35 VanessaE as in /status shows my name and one or more unknowns from time to time
08:36 hmmmm after this is printed verbosestream << "BiomeDefManager: added biome '" << b->name << "' to biome group " << b->groupid << std::endl;
08:36 hmmmm NOTHING else gets printed to debug.log
08:36 VanessaE that IS odd.
08:36 hmmmm i comment out that line
08:36 hmmmm works perfectly
08:36 hmmmm it cuts out directly after "to biome group " and doesn't print out the groupid
08:36 hmmmm i don't understand it at all
08:37 VanessaE if I could remember what -> does in C++ I might have a guess
08:37 hmmmm this is nothing exotic - i'm just printing out a damn line using ostreamwriter
08:37 hmmmm that dereferences a member of a pointer to an object
08:37 hmmmm so let's say you have Object *foo
08:37 hmmmm foo is a variable containing the address of where an object of type Object resides
08:38 VanessaE right
08:38 hmmmm foo->bar accesses member 'bar' of the object being pointed at by 'foo'
08:38 VanessaE gotchya
08:38 hmmmm it's equivalent to (*foo).bar
08:38 hmmmm you should start doing more c++
08:38 VanessaE or vaguely like foo.bar in Lua.
08:38 hmmmm you'll love it i'm sure
08:38 VanessaE oh I might eventually do so at some point
08:39 VanessaE anyways
08:39 hmmmm change that might into a will and the eventually into asap and we're in business
08:39 hmmmm heh, it's like almost 4
08:39 hmmmm what'r you doing up
08:40 VanessaE if I learn C++ to a decent degree, celeron55 can tell me my ideas are horrible 10x more often ;)
08:40 VanessaE oh, it's just another sleepless night for me
08:40 VanessaE not the first, won't be the last.
08:40 hmmmm i don't feel tired for some reason but i'm sure if i lay down i'll instantly pass out
08:40 VanessaE see I have just the opposite problem.
08:40 hmmmm need to get back on a sleep schedule for school
08:40 VanessaE if I sit here at the computer, I get groggy after a while.....until I lie down.
08:40 hmmmm starts on wednesday for me
08:41 VanessaE they I'm wired.
08:41 VanessaE then*
08:41 hmmmm that used to happen to me but not so much anymore
08:41 VanessaE university?
08:41 hmmmm yeah
08:41 VanessaE cool
08:41 hmmmm this is gonna be a fun semester
08:41 hmmmm i have 7 classes
08:41 hmmmm and they're all real classes
08:41 VanessaE whatchya studying?
08:42 hmmmm i needed to overload my schedule in order to fit what i need to graduate on time
08:42 hmmmm math
08:42 hmmmm and CS
08:42 VanessaE hoo boy.
08:42 hmmmm i should've dropped CS major down to a minor while i had the chance and i wouldn't be so crunched like this
08:42 hmmmm i only get a degree for one
08:42 VanessaE no chance of changing your mind?
08:43 hmmmm well there's no reason to do that now, it's too late
08:44 VanessaE well I hope you do well :)
08:44 hmmmm thanks
08:44 VanessaE my college days are long behind me now
08:44 hmmmm i can't wait to graduate so i can continue on with my life, but chances are that i won't have any free time for minetest anymore
08:44 VanessaE stopped at an AA, didn't see much need to go past that given the cost and the job market at the time
08:44 hmmmm that's scary
08:45 hmmmm yea, it's fine as long as you can get the job you want
08:45 VanessaE well you may find some time here and there, just don't focus too much on that which is not important (i.e. yourself, family, these are what truly matter)
08:45 hmmmm my parents want me to go on to get my masters degree and eventually a phd, but for what... i don't want to be a professor.. a BS is sufficient for what i want
08:47 VanessaE I don't see much need in going after a PhD unless you've got some high-end career in mind, and even then
08:48 VanessaE I've always believed that "book smarts" aren't nearly as valuable as real-life experiences in the fields you're targeting
08:48 VanessaE (but still important, to a degree, of course)
08:48 hmmmm software development?  of course
08:48 hmmmm same with any engineering discipline though
08:48 VanessaE yeah
08:48 hmmmm experience is king here
08:49 VanessaE I mean, you need to learn the math, logic, etc. skills, but what good is knowing how to program in COBOL if your target runs Java?
08:49 VanessaE (contrived examples ftw :) )
08:50 VanessaE regarding the stream locking up... is there some file handle you have to close after writing that stream?
08:51 VanessaE I remember in the old days if you wanted to redirect stdio, you could only open one stream destination at a time, forgetting to open:read/write:close would invariably end up causing weird results, like trying to read from stdout or so.
08:52 hmmmm experience probably works best with book smarts... if you're a smartie pants who'd learn from their mistakes quickly, it totally enhances the effect.  you would learn Java in a split
08:52 hmmmm it's all a balancing act i say
08:52 VanessaE true
08:52 hmmmm no, no file handle i need to close
08:52 hmmmm verbosestream is used elsewhere a lot and it never had any effect
08:52 VanessaE what about some special magic number?
08:52 hmmmm it's just my code that writes to it that does that
08:53 hmmmm probably not
08:53 VanessaE something you have to write to say "end of this message" or so
08:53 VanessaE hm
08:53 hmmmm i keep thinking maybe it's converting groupid to some weird type or something, or maybe it's a bug in my libstdc++
08:53 VanessaE a bug?  perhaps, but then it should affect all other equivalent uses of that stream
08:54 hmmmm i'm honestly clueless
08:54 VanessaE I'd favor the bad conversion hypothesis first
08:54 hmmmm and like you just showed me, you don't seem to suffer from the bug like i do
08:54 VanessaE true
08:54 hmmmm so i must be doing some sort of undefined behavior..? *shrug*
08:55 hmmmm *shutters*
08:55 VanessaE wait,
08:55 VanessaE aren'y you on windows?
08:55 VanessaE aren't*
08:55 hmmmm nope
08:55 VanessaE oh ok
08:55 hmmmm why does everybody think i'm on windows
08:55 hmmmm you celeron and someone else
08:55 VanessaE I was about to say, where did I get that from then?
08:55 VanessaE hrm.
08:56 hmmmm well if it's not bugging the rest of the population who uses minetest, i guess it doesn't matter too much
08:56 VanessaE what DO you run then?  maybe it indeed is libc bug or so..
08:56 hmmmm FreeBSD
08:56 hmmmm 9.1-RC3
08:56 VanessaE wow, 9.1 now?  I haven't touched FBSD since...4.3 I think
08:56 hmmmm that's ancient... probably like 2002 or so
08:56 kaeza hmmmm, does it print b->name?
08:57 hmmmm yep
08:57 VanessaE late 90's I think actually.
08:57 hmmmm it stops when it goes to print b->groupid
08:57 hmmmm you know, i should play around with it more and try different strings
08:57 hmmmm this isn't something i should be doing at 4am though
08:57 VanessaE certainly not
08:57 hmmmm no i should be gone to bed right now
08:57 hmmmm that settles it, i'm going
08:57 VanessaE ditto
08:57 hmmmm see you tomorrow
08:57 VanessaE and in fact I'm heading off now.
08:58 VanessaE good night :)
08:58 VanessaE oh,
08:58 hmmmm 'night
08:58 hmmmm what
08:58 VanessaE and consider this:
08:58 kaeza hmmmm, on some distros, printing a non null-terminated string may hang the program instead of raising SIGSEGV sometimes
08:58 VanessaE if you're anything like me, you're gonna churn on this until you fall asleep, and the solution will "develop" in the middle of some obscure dream
08:58 hmmmm kaeza, i sorta figured it might be some unprintable character too
08:58 VanessaE so who knows, you might wake up with an answer
08:58 hmmmm haha, yea vanessa
08:58 hmmmm in reality i doubt i'm going to come up with anything until i experiment
08:59 VanessaE wait a minute
08:59 hmmmm i think kaeza is right, if anything, there's some way some unprintable character snuck into my string literal
08:59 VanessaE what about the simplicity of Xon/xoff?
08:59 hmmmm hmm?
08:59 VanessaE speaking of nonprintables
08:59 hmmmm what's that
08:59 VanessaE you know, the old fashioned Ctrl-S/Ctrl-Q
08:59 hmmmm never used it
09:00 VanessaE those still work afaik in most terminals.
09:00 VanessaE *shrug* it's worth a look anyway
09:00 hmmmm i type in an IDE
09:00 hmmmm i'l figure it out i'm sure
09:00 hmmmm i figure everything out eventually
09:00 VanessaE nono I mean something that is, like you figured, getting badly converted
09:00 hmmmm could be..
09:00 VanessaE you spam the terminal with garbage, you get weird results.  maybe the same is true for this tream
09:00 VanessaE stream*
09:01 kaeza VanessaE, so you mean a ^S char is sliping into the term output?
09:02 kaeza ah nvm
09:02 VanessaE kaeza: I'm thinking it's getting in there among some other gobbledygook from a conversion error like hmmmm was thinking.
09:02 VanessaE anyway, I'm off to bed.
09:02 VanessaE night :-)
09:02 kaeza good night V
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10:21 meldrian cya
11:41 celeron55 http://manu.sporny.org/2013/drm-in-html5/
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13:10 troller http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=66952
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13:22 kaeza joined #minetest
13:23 kaeza hi all
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13:30 PilzAdam joined #minetest
13:31 PilzAdam Hello everyone!
13:37 codile joined #minetest
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14:06 babyface1031 joined #minetest
14:08 NekoGloop mornin'
14:13 jojoa1997 joined #minetest
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14:23 kaeza hey Neko :3 it's rare to see you this early
14:24 Jousway joined #minetest
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14:34 NekoGloop I'm usually busy doing something
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15:03 jojoa1997 hi all
15:19 NekoGloop Meow
15:23 Traxie21 joined #minetest
15:23 Traxie21 zomg
15:24 Traxie21 Im on IRC with a kindle keyboard
15:24 Traxie21 didnt even know it could do that :D
15:25 NekoGloop Congratulations
15:25 NekoGloop Do you want a punch in the face, or a kitten?
15:26 Traxie21 how about a color screen?
15:26 NekoGloop Nope, got none of them.
15:26 Traxie21 it takes forever to type with this and the screen is black and white
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15:26 Traxie21 but IRC works
15:27 NekoGloop I'm using a TV from the 80's as my computer monitor.
15:27 NekoGloop ;-)
15:27 Traxie21 still better than a kindle :P
15:27 Traxie21 look it up
15:28 Traxie21 I have the non-touchscreen variety
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15:29 Traxie21 brb
15:33 * Traxie21 tries to tell if tabs are green or blue... no success.
15:33 NekoGloop One should be darker than the other
15:34 berome joined #minetest
15:34 Traxie21 yeah... but its real hard to tell when you're sitting on the toilet in semi-darkness
15:34 NekoGloop TMI.
15:35 Traxie21 XD
15:35 Traxie21 turns light on
15:37 VanessaE damn it cover yourself at least.
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15:39 Traxie21 ohi vanessa
15:39 VanessaE hi
15:40 Traxie21 Sorry I havent been on your server lately
15:40 VanessaE it's kay
15:40 VanessaE okay*
15:41 Traxie21 you know the tpr mod? For the moment at least, jordan4's version is better
15:41 Traxie21 you might want to ue that
15:42 VanessaE I'll consider it
15:43 Traxie21 But I'm working on a new version that will be more configurable in my ServerExtended mod
15:44 Traxie21 modding is fun, even if you suck at being logical
15:45 hmmmm i just looked and my debug.txt has a lot of text after it, mousepad just stops reading after it hits an 0x02
15:45 hmmmm why did it write an 0x02 0x0a...
15:45 hmmmm i bet that if i cast it to an int or something it'll work, watch this
15:47 hmmmm pf.. well that worked, but i have no idea why
15:47 Traxie21 what.
15:47 hmmmm ahhhh...
15:47 hmmmm it's a signed 8
15:48 hmmmm C++ is too smart for its own good, trying to not treat it like a number
15:48 Traxie21 its so hard to understand people who know what they're doing
15:48 hmmmm problem solved
15:48 hmmmm that's a good way to start off a morning, solving a bug 8)
15:48 hmmmm thanks for the motivation vanessa
15:48 VanessaE well I was close at least
15:48 VanessaE :-)
15:48 VanessaE may not have been xoff but it was at least a control code ;)
15:49 VanessaE 0x02..."Start of Text"
15:49 hmmmm so i guess everybody else uses text editors that don't stop after reading control characters
15:49 VanessaE ironic that mousepad should treat that as "end".
15:49 hmmmm why is why nobody complained
15:50 hmmmm which is why
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15:51 VanessaE see?  proof that just talking about something can help solve the issue ;)
15:51 VanessaE so celeron55 is full of shit :D
15:51 hmmmm well what really helped was looking
15:52 VanessaE I'm kidding :)
15:52 hmmmm also i forgot i made groupid an s8
15:52 hmmmm _whoops_
15:52 VanessaE oops :)
15:53 hmmmm wow!
15:53 VanessaE ?
15:53 hmmmm that means at this point in time, all of my stuff is bug-free
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15:53 hmmmm time to start working on EmergeManager
15:53 VanessaE oh boy.
15:54 Jousway joined #minetest
15:54 Jordach hmmmm, hmm, sounds like a godly idea
15:54 VanessaE and I get to be the guinea pig I bet ;)
15:54 Jordach VanessaE, managed to load your serv. with 0fps
15:54 VanessaE Jordach: heh
15:54 Jordach but then it died
15:54 VanessaE yeah, I read.  crashed and burned :)
15:56 Jordach VanessaE, single player with latest git, 40-45fps
15:56 * VanessaE grumbles incoherently about her failed X10 (the remote lighting control system) install.
15:56 * Jordach slaps VanessaE
15:56 VanessaE ow.
15:56 Jordach no complaining, thats my job
15:57 VanessaE phh
15:57 VanessaE pff
15:57 Jordach cmon, im the grumpy bastard half the time
15:58 Jordach VanessaE, so, you made vessels, yet hdx has no support for it :P
15:58 VanessaE sure it has.
15:59 Jordach 256x, nope
15:59 VanessaE oh I know why
15:59 VanessaE I forgot to update the inventory vs. weild images.
15:59 VanessaE wield*
15:59 VanessaE maybe some other time
16:00 NekoGloop So when do we get a 0.4.5?
16:00 Jordach NEVER.
16:00 celeron55 http://paste.dy.fi/sHv
16:00 celeron55 i should implement a bot on this channel to handle all these
16:00 celeron55 so if anyone is interested in answering this noob, i will give the e-mail
16:00 Jordach when c55 wants a bot, oh boy trouble
16:01 NekoGloop The problem is that you don't tell minetest to try to run from a folder you don't have permission to edit.
16:01 celeron55 that is, he is running it directly from a zip or something?
16:01 VanessaE celeron55: apparently a LOT of people do that
16:01 celeron55 well somebody else can explain anyways
16:02 celeron55 or is there a page to link to
16:02 VanessaE I've seen quite a few people have errors due to that.
16:03 kaeza *windows users*
16:03 celeron55 answered with 7 words, hopefully i don't hear back
16:03 VanessaE and those words were....?
16:04 kaeza inb4 slap from Jordach
16:04 NekoGloop "You stupid ass n00b, I don't care"
16:04 celeron55 umm... something describing what to do
16:04 VanessaE hah
16:04 celeron55 apparently my sent box doesn't work
16:05 PilzAdam celeron55, http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=4505
16:06 celeron55 maybe i should link that ten times from the download page
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16:06 kaeza I find it funny how he used 13375p33k
16:06 NekoGloop why, he doesn't say how he fixed it.
16:06 celeron55 ...or somebody could write proper error handling to world creation so that it would give a hint to unzip the thing if it goes wrong
16:07 NekoGloop "Minetest cannot run from a .zip archive. Also, don't put stupid characters in folder names."
16:07 VanessaE why not use a "proper" installed/installshield thingamajig for win builds?
16:07 VanessaE installer*
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16:08 * NekoGloop puts a kitten on Calinou's head
16:08 Jordach do feel free to ask me questions: http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=66997#p66997
16:08 kaeza VanessaE, I can contribute a script for Inno Setup
16:08 Jordach im bored as hell
16:08 VanessaE even if all it does is the same damn thing as the user does now -- a lot of win users don't understand the concept of unzipping a file, let alone what it means to "run the executable".
16:08 Jordach VanessaE, hmm
16:09 Jordach after installing it drops two shortcuts, one for installing mods, and the other for launching the game
16:09 kaeza http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=4245
16:09 PilzAdam Jordach, answer me! (see forum)
16:09 Calinou since when windows users know how to use windows :-D
16:09 VanessaE in other words, remember your audience:  90% of them are blithering idiots :D
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16:10 Jordach VanessaE, same goes for school exams, think of the examiner as an idiot
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16:11 * Jordach hears the iPad bleep to the sound of a new email
16:11 Jordach oh great
16:11 Jordach its gunna be all night!
16:11 VanessaE Jordach: to that end, I was lucky in school.  Most of my instructors were quite intelligent.
16:12 VanessaE there were a couple of real gems, to be sure, but lack of intelligence wasn't the problem there.
16:12 kaeza okay, nvm
16:12 Jordach VanessaE, thing is WE know theyre smart, but still treat them as DUMB
16:12 * Jordach loves the new posting system on the forum, much faster :D
16:12 VanessaE Calinou: with exceptions, since when did Windows users even *know* they were running windows at all
16:13 Jordach VanessaE, boot screen silly
16:13 VanessaE that apparently isn't enough for some people, Jordach
16:13 Jordach oh yes, the deaf, dumb and blind
16:13 Jordach (computer wise)
16:14 PilzAdam I frequently hear people saying they use "Microsoft"...
16:14 Jordach PilzAdam, updated
16:14 VanessaE my worst pet peeve with computer users is when they still refer to the PC itself as a 'hard drive' or something.
16:16 NekoGloop My worst pet peeve is when someone buys a new monitor to upgrade their graphics capability
16:16 NekoGloop it's like, wtf. the pc itself needs upgrading then.
16:16 Jordach NekoGloop, the world is a moron
16:17 VanessaE NekoGloop: haha
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16:18 VanessaE like I said, 90% of computer users out there, well maybe more like 60-70%, are just blithering idiots and refuse to learn how to properly and effectively use their machines.
16:18 VanessaE (and if you can't be bothered...get an ipad or something)
16:18 babyface1031 hi kaeza :)
16:18 VanessaE (Apple et.al have nice, comfortable walled gardens for you to play in)
16:19 * PilzAdam doesnt like apple
16:19 Jordach VanessaE, i use a iPad for entertainment#
16:19 kaeza hey face
16:19 * NekoGloop puts an apple on Adam's head
16:19 Jordach (and porn, /me loves .mp4 video)
16:19 VanessaE Jordach: but you still have a PC top
16:19 VanessaE that's the difference
16:19 VanessaE you know to use the right tool for the job
16:19 * PilzAdam bites the apple an places it on a laptop
16:19 PilzAdam that makes $600
16:19 Jordach there. an apple laptop.
16:19 VanessaE lol
16:20 PilzAdam this is how apple products are mad
16:20 PilzAdam *made
16:20 NekoGloop You forgot the lock and chains
16:21 Jordach NekoGloop, you mean the iron ingot to craft with the laptop?
16:22 VanessaE Jordach: nonono you have to craft ingots into chains *first*, then craft those with the laptop
16:22 NekoGloop minetest.register_craft({type="shapeless",recipe={"default:apple","pc:laptop","default:steel_ingot", "glooptest:chainlink"},output="pc:macbook"})
16:22 VanessaE Calinou: I've been doing some thinking - is there a particular reason we don't use a saw to cut up blocks into stairs/slabs/etc the way it's done in MC?
16:23 VanessaE it occurs to me the sheer number of recipes needed for stairs now may be getting a little stifling.
16:23 NekoGloop VanessaE, you mean redpower?
16:23 VanessaE NekoGloop: I don't know which mod provides the feature - I saw it in a video yesterday.
16:23 VanessaE craft saw + material in the right pattern -> slab
16:23 VanessaE (presumably stairs, microblocks also)
16:24 NekoGloop no
16:24 Calinou MC doesn't use saws to make stairs/slabs
16:24 Calinou first one to code "smart" microblock placing (that can be merged to make stuff of all sorts) gets nobel prize
16:24 VanessaE now you're gonna force me to find the video :-)
16:24 NekoGloop you cut the block into two slabs, then cut a slab into two slab strips (stairsplus panels), then place the slab and the slab strip in the same block space to make a stair.
16:25 celeron55 http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology/For-40-Years-This-Russian-Family-Was-Cut-Off-From-Human-Contact-Unaware-of-World-War-II-188843001.html
16:25 PilzAdam Calinou, something like pass the exact pointed position on the node to Lua functions
16:25 Calinou yes, that's required
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16:28 VanessaE hrm, I guess it was redpower then.  come to think of it, the saw was kinda bluish in color..
16:28 NekoGloop Sapphire Handsaw?
16:28 VanessaE still, why don't we do that?  wouldn't that make for fewer potential recipe collisions?
16:29 VanessaE NekoGloop: don't remember - it was light blue, almost cyan
16:29 Calinou if it's blue, then it's an Intel® Saw(tm)
16:29 Calinou <trollface>
16:29 NekoGloop that would be the Diamond Handsaw then.
16:29 VanessaE saw it in some random video yesterday, one of those suggested videos off of something else I'd watched.
16:29 markveidemanis Hi!
16:29 markveidemanis joined #minetest
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16:30 Calinou hi marktraceur
16:30 Calinou markveidemanis*
16:30 Calinou marktraceur: sorry :(
16:30 VanessaE hi mark
16:30 NekoGloop merk
16:30 Calinou merktraceur much
16:30 markveidemanis stop with the typos
16:30 Calinou step with the types
16:30 markveidemanis and 1 thing...
16:31 markveidemanis TAB DOES NOT WORK
16:31 markveidemanis :D
16:31 VanessaE markveidemanis: works for me.
16:31 VanessaE mark<tab> --> markveidemanis --> <tab>  --> marktraceur
16:31 markveidemanis marktraceur: works for me <==ends up like that
16:31 markveidemanis exactly...
16:31 NekoGloop Press tab twice then
16:31 VanessaE exactly what I said.
16:31 markveidemanis but the other way round :D
16:32 VanessaE tabbing may allow you to cycle through possible compltions
16:32 NekoGloop http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYc6Eyx3Hd0
16:32 VanessaE completions*
16:32 Jordach so it fucking does
16:32 marktraceur ....morning to all of you, too
16:32 * NekoGloop puts a kitten on marktraceur's head
16:33 markveidemanis not funny anymore
16:33 NekoGloop what isn't?
16:33 markveidemanis VanessaE places a kitten on Jordach's head
16:33 markveidemanis remember?
16:33 VanessaE Calinou, celeron55.. so might I suggest at some point in the future that the recipes for slabs et.al be switched to something like what's used in redpower?  It's more logical and leaves more of the crafting space open
16:33 * VanessaE takes the incorrectly-placed kitten and puts it back on markveidemanis's head
16:34 markveidemanis Haha
16:34 Calinou what does redpower do? I almost never played with that mod...
16:34 Calinou so you craft a saw, and by clicking on blocks, it converts them to stairs/slabs?
16:34 Calinou or... does it do something else?
16:35 VanessaE Calinou: you craft a saw, then craft that with blocks
16:35 VanessaE http://nemesis.evalq.net/RedPower2/recipes.html
16:35 Calinou thanks
16:35 VanessaE somewhere on here anyway :-)
16:36 VanessaE "Cutting Recipes"
16:36 VanessaE near the bottom
16:36 NekoGloop Calinou: that's not even the main purpose of the mod :D
16:37 VanessaE yeah, the main purpose is covered mostly by mesecons + digilines :-)\
16:37 VanessaE + technic
16:37 NekoGloop not really.
16:37 Calinou good idea, but that's a lot of work, I'd have to redo all the recipes :P
16:37 NekoGloop mesecons can't go up walls
16:37 Calinou echo "Add saws" > TODO.txt
16:37 Calinou oops
16:37 VanessaE NekoGloop: yes they can
16:37 Calinou echo "Add saws" >> TODO.txt
16:37 Calinou better :-p
16:37 NekoGloop and we can't reduce tool wear in a recipe yet.
16:37 Jordach VanessaE, does hdx support lights+
16:37 VanessaE just not horizontally
16:38 VanessaE Jordach: no
16:38 Jordach aw
16:38 Jordach fix ot
16:38 Jordach it
16:38 VanessaE but it would be trivial to support
16:38 VanessaE just haven't thought about it
16:39 Jordach its _one_ textures
16:39 VanessaE Calinou: come to think of it, maybe forget this idea.
16:39 Calinou this idea would simplify things a lot, so why not do it
16:39 VanessaE Calinou: well looking at these other recipes./.
16:40 NekoGloop why?
16:40 VanessaE you'd have to duplicate the rest of the cutting recipes just to stay even with that mod, which I doubt you want to do
16:41 Jordach VanessaE, can i has copy of your carts mod?
16:41 VanessaE (and some of these don't make a lot of sense)
16:41 Jordach (the server one)
16:41 Calinou Jeija: 3D formspecs pl0x
16:41 Calinou :>
16:41 VanessaE Jordach: that's pilzadam's, and it's in my game pack:  http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/vanessa_game.tar.bz2
16:41 NekoGloop http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ib0TS143oM nya
16:41 * Jordach justs wants the stand alone mod
16:42 VanessaE Jordach:  https://github.com/PilzAdam/carts
16:42 PilzAdam Jordach, http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=2451
16:43 VanessaE or do there.
16:43 Calinou .tar.bz2? count me in
16:43 VanessaE go*
16:43 * Calinou extracts it
16:43 PilzAdam Jordach, if you like carts, you may also like this: http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=4016
16:43 Calinou ...extracting...
16:43 * Calinou is still extracting...
16:43 * Calinou bluescreens
16:43 Jordach lol
16:43 VanessaE lol
16:43 Calinou combo-lol
16:43 NekoGloop lol
16:43 Jordach dont you mean kernel panic?
16:43 Jordach its having a fucking heart attack!
16:43 NekoGloop No, Jordach, he has joined us.
16:44 Calinou nope! extracting a .tar.bz2 induces 10% chance to bluescreen regardless of OS (except OS X: this is why people like apple)
16:44 * NekoGloop casts Extract .tar.bz2!
16:44 * Calinou bluescreens again!
16:44 Calinou so unlucky
16:44 * NekoGloop is inflicted with Bluescreen!
16:44 * Jordach sits there unaffected since I use WinRAR
16:44 Jordach :>
16:44 * VanessaE paints NekoGloop's screen red, just because.
16:45 * NekoGloop is now infected with Redscreen!
16:45 NekoGloop Boot Manager error!
16:45 Calinou lol, winrar
16:45 NekoGloop lol, 7zip
16:45 markveidemanis BEEP
16:46 Doc22 ahh, getting more into world management and realizing the stress of working with borders between negative and positive dimensions
16:46 Calinou 7 zip is much faster than winrar, and is FOSS
16:46 * Jordach extracts by the power of GREYSKULL!!!
16:46 VanessaE Calinou: so you're going to change your recipes to match this?  (I expect not, it would be a lot of work)
16:46 markveidemanis who wants to build on my server?
16:46 Doc22 i do but i dont have that much time...
16:46 VanessaE build on mine instead :-)
16:46 * PilzAdam doesnt use any extract programm; hes doing it himself
16:47 markveidemanis Mine is faster, admit it:D
16:47 VanessaE apropos http://xkcd.com/378/
16:47 VanessaE PilzAdam:  ^^^
16:47 Calinou VanessaE: meh, no
16:47 Doc22 yeah i would...
16:47 Doc22 but unfortunately, I dont have much time...
16:47 PilzAdam VanessaE, that was in my mind when i wrote it :-)
16:47 markveidemanis Noooooo
16:48 rubenwardy joined #minetest
16:49 rubenwardy Hi all
16:49 NekoGloop http://xkcd.com/369/
16:50 * Doc22 solves problem of negative/positive border in his game
16:50 Doc22 hi rubenwardy
16:50 VanessaE Calinou: too bad.  I was gonna change my homedecor recipes (lighting slabs) to follow if you did :-)
16:50 Doc22 rubenwardy I tried crafting carrot cake mix with my mod's carrots and it didnt work
16:51 Doc22 I looked at the code to find recipe
16:51 Jordach VanessaE, Calinou: linux in a nutshell: http://xkcd.com/619/
16:51 Calinou old news
16:51 VanessaE heh
16:51 Doc22 llol
16:51 Calinou flash ftl
16:52 Doc22 yeah
16:52 * Calinou doesn't have 4096 CPUs though
16:52 Doc22 me neither
16:52 Calinou only 8 threads :'(
16:52 Doc22 i have 4 threads
16:52 Doc22 D:
16:52 Doc22 but it never gets above 20% 8-)
16:52 VanessaE 6 cores here, however many threads that translates to
16:52 Calinou Doc22: don't you have an i7-3930K or so?
16:52 Doc22 more powa', less threads
16:52 Calinou if so you have 12 threads
16:52 Doc22 and i have only the 3820?
16:52 Doc22 odk
16:52 Calinou VanessaE: 6 threads, AMD CPUs have mutualized cores, no hyperthreading
16:52 Doc22 idk*
16:52 VanessaE Calinou: as I expected.
16:53 Doc22 but i dont have more than 4 threads i know that...
16:53 Calinou 3820 is 4 cores. 8 threads since you probably have hyperthreading on (on by default)
16:53 Doc22 yeah
16:53 Calinou contrary to what its name might tell, it's sandy bridge, not ivy bridge. (intel you liar D:)
16:53 Calinou sandy bridge-E to be correct
16:53 VanessaE this processor has that somewhat worthless turbo feature too - turns off 3 cores and cranks the other three up by 25% or something, if the CPU detects that it would be faster or something
16:53 Doc22 i notice that in the windows task manager it shows 8 cpus and i thought that was wierd
16:53 Calinou turbo is quite useful
16:53 Doc22 mine is sandy bridge-e
16:53 Calinou 3.8ghz when one core is used here, 3.5 when all cores are used and CPU is cool enough
16:54 Calinou 3.4 being base freq
16:54 Doc22 mine is nice and cool
16:54 VanessaE Calinou: yeah, minetestserver can spin at 100% CPU that much more efficiently when it locks down ;-)
16:54 Doc22 i got a 240mm radiator
16:54 Calinou mine is overclockable, but I never do that :P
16:54 Doc22 mine also
16:54 Doc22 but i dont use it
16:54 Calinou 240mm? O_o
16:54 Doc22 why would i need to
16:54 Calinou biggest I've seen was 140mm..
16:54 Jordach mine is not even overclocked at 3.2ghz
16:54 Doc22 it never gets above 20%
16:54 Doc22 and yes i have a 240mm radiator
16:54 Doc22 it wouldnt fit in the case with the fans
16:55 Calinou if I buy overclockable CPUs, it's mostly just in case, and because of the whole "i'm owner of my hardware" thing
16:55 Doc22 so i mounted all the other fans blowing in
16:55 Calinou also, better chipset :P
16:55 Doc22 so the air goes out through the radiator
16:55 Doc22 does a good job :)
16:55 Doc22 never overheats
16:55 Doc22 (of course i still havent gotten it anywhere near 100%)
16:55 webdesigner97 joined #minetest
16:56 Calinou if you overheat when you CPU is 100% used, your cooling solution is wrong
16:59 Doc22 yeah
16:59 Doc22 mine should never overheat
16:59 Doc22 unless I decide to overclock it
16:59 Doc22 but I don't have to worry about it even approaching 100%
16:59 Doc22 :)
17:00 Doc22 and I set the pump on "performance mode" as opposed to "quiet" mode
17:00 Doc22 not that much difference in noise
17:00 Doc22 so what the hech
17:00 Doc22 heck
17:00 markveidemanis Ok...
17:00 Doc22 lol I see how oil cooled computers would be good
17:01 Doc22 ya know the ones that are in a tank of oil?
17:01 markveidemanis ...
17:01 Doc22 but this is:
17:01 Doc22 a) easier to maintain
17:01 markveidemanis spam:)
17:01 Doc22 b) guaranteed no oil on my mom's carpet
17:01 markveidemanis 15 messages
17:01 Doc22 c) I CAN FIDDLE WITH THE STUFF WITH NO OIL ON MAH HANDS!!!
17:02 Doc22 lol i AM a spammer arent i
17:02 Doc22 but not on purpose :)
17:02 VanessaE no, just a jabberjaw :)
17:02 markveidemanis haha
17:02 rubenwardy Doc22: https://github.com/rubenwardy/food/blob/master/support.lua#L106
17:02 rubenwardy it should work
17:02 markveidemanis yap...yap...
17:02 Doc22 made a change rubenwardy?
17:02 rubenwardy do you have farming plus installed?
17:02 rubenwardy no, it was in previous code
17:02 Doc22 yeah its on minetest.org:30004
17:03 Doc22 then again the recipes might be messed up there
17:03 Doc22 like with ufo mod.
17:03 rubenwardy if farming plus is installed, then it takes the carrot from that
17:03 markveidemanis ALL servers are on minetest.org atm:D
17:03 codile joined #minetest
17:05 * Doc22 realises that my code for regions between negative and positive was fine...
17:05 Doc22 just took time to realise that...
17:05 kaeza rubenwardy, interested? http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=67020#p67020
17:05 Doc22 and rubenwardy I made my mod compatible with pilzadam
17:05 Doc22 pilzadam's farming mod*
17:05 sokomine if you're talking about cpus: how much impact does it have on mt? i'd really like to be able to turn far on more often. there are so many nice trees to look at :-) but i think it's the onboard gpu that's too slow for that
17:05 Doc22 trigger happy pinky
17:05 Doc22 X(
17:06 sokomine don't want an extra card, though (would just consume more power while idle)
17:06 Doc22 rubenwardy could you make it so that food:carrot can use either my mod's carrot or pilzadam's mod's carrot?
17:06 sokomine could both mods perhaps provide the same carrot if the other mod is installed? :-)
17:06 Doc22 (assuming that it discludes mine when farming-plus is installed)
17:07 Doc22 but I like my mod's texture D:
17:07 sokomine there are already at least two strawberries (bushes and farming from pilzadam). maybe they're diffrent breeds
17:07 Doc22 i guess...
17:07 rubenwardy sokomine: they should, for programming etique
17:07 Doc22 rubenwardy can you just make it support both types of carrots at once?
17:07 rubenwardy they could do this: https://github.com/rubenwardy/food/blob/master/support.lua#L19
17:07 rubenwardy to check if other is installed
17:08 rubenwardy Doc22: that would require another craft recipe, and would mess up my structure
17:08 Doc22 yeah
17:08 Doc22 all right
17:09 sokomine you could use a variable to hold the actual carrot name
17:09 Doc22 pilzadam: do you want to make our farming mods compatible so that they drop one type of carrot instead of two?
17:09 Doc22 ie. my mod drops the same node of carrot as yours does
17:10 Doc22 rubenwardy another solution would be a line of code like this:
17:10 Doc22 register_alias
17:10 sokomine another point: is there really no way to save the block data the client receives? it looks like there is a section in the client where it receives chunk data?
17:10 PilzAdam do you use GitHub?
17:10 Doc22 yeah, but I al still a learnder
17:10 Doc22 learner
17:10 sokomine oh yes, if your mods where compatible, that would be nice
17:10 Doc22 I can use it for my projects
17:10 Doc22 i just havent put them on yet
17:11 Doc22 so you up for it?
17:11 kaeza ok this guy should just STFU and go play Portal 2: http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=66962#p66962
17:11 * kaeza is a bit bitchy today
17:11 kaeza sowwy :/
17:11 PilzAdam Doc22, make a pull request for that
17:12 Doc22 umm... I am kinda new to gits, but I will try to find out what that means :P
17:12 Doc22 lol kaeza
17:12 * rubenwardy is now Stumble!-ing
17:13 rubenwardy http://www.stumbleupon.com/
17:13 Doc22 ok google search taught me what a pull request is
17:14 Doc22 I will have to do that later I am a bit busy
17:16 codile joined #minetest
17:19 * marktraceur waves
17:19 marktraceur Got my minetest merch yesterday
17:19 marktraceur Wearing the shirt now :)
17:19 marktraceur The mug is somewhere here in the WMF offices....but I'm not sure where exactly.
17:20 Doc22 minetest shirt? :D
17:20 marktraceur Yup!
17:20 rubenwardy send a photo in, so I can put it up :D
17:20 marktraceur Doc22: Sadly there was some copyright issue.
17:21 marktraceur rubenwardy: Are you trying to smooth things over with the Cafepress people?
17:21 rubenwardy no, I am busy
17:21 marktraceur Hm.
17:23 Calinou marktraceur: the mug was not notable
17:23 Calinou that's why they deleted it
17:23 marktraceur Calinou: :)
17:23 rubenwardy no, it had the logo on it
17:23 marktraceur Calinou: It's not NPOV, it promotes coffee
17:24 rubenwardy only one product: http://www.cafepress.com/sk/minetest
17:27 marktraceur *nod*
17:28 marktraceur rubenwardy: You really need to put the CC-BY-SA notice on it and get the stuff back up.
17:28 rubenwardy lol http://mashable.com/2013/01/28/anonymous-hacks-asteroids-nyan-cat/
17:29 thexyz marktraceur: photo!
17:29 rubenwardy CC BY SA icons?
17:31 john_minetest joined #minetest
17:31 marktraceur thexyz: Perhaps tonight!
17:31 kaeza Calinou, http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=67020#p67020
17:33 Doc22 marktraceur how so?
17:34 marktraceur Doc22: The logo is CCBYSA, and neither clause of that license was satisfied by the designs we had up
17:35 Doc22 ahhhhh
17:35 Doc22 oh well
17:35 marktraceur Yet another lesson about licensing.
17:35 triplei joined #minetest
17:37 Doc22 WHY DO I TALK SO MUCH
17:37 thexyz [unrelated] what's the best FS for SD card (64gb one)?
17:38 Doc22 i have absolutely no idea....
17:39 thexyz ext4 doesn't fucking work with my cm10.1
17:39 thexyz "freedom"
17:39 thexyz "open-source"
17:39 rubenwardy http://www.cafepress.com/mf/76069199/need-some-coffee_tshirt
17:40 OldCoder I am on errands but will return
17:42 Doc22 got to go everyone
17:44 rubenwardy http://www.cafepress.com/mf/76069299/i-heart-minetest_tshirt
17:48 Calinou kaeza: I don't use windows :P
17:48 rubenwardy My letter to cafepress:
17:48 rubenwardy http://pastebin.com/UKpU4URn
17:48 rubenwardy (ping: celeron55)
17:49 kaeza Calinou, ah sorry. thought you did :P
17:59 FreeFull joined #minetest
18:00 NakedFury joined #minetest
18:02 LunaVorax joined #minetest
18:03 LunaVorax Hi!
18:06 sapier joined #minetest
18:15 webdesigner97 joined #minetest
18:19 SpeedProg joined #minetest
18:30 proller joined #minetest
18:32 rotor112 joined #minetest
18:32 rotor112 hi
18:34 marktraceur rotor112: Hi!
18:34 marktraceur rotor112: What's up?
18:34 rotor112 nothing at the moment
18:36 Doc22 joined #minetest
18:36 rotor112 hi
18:37 rotor112 where can I find the definition of "plantlike" in the source code?
18:37 ttk2 joined #minetest
18:37 Calinou grep -rl "plantlike" .
18:37 Calinou ^ in minetest source folder
18:38 rotor112 ok, thanks
18:38 VanessaE l?
18:38 Calinou search in files
18:38 VanessaE files with matches, got it
18:38 Calinou or returns file names instead of content, afaik
18:39 sapier grep has a -r option?
18:40 Calinou recursive
18:40 Calinou yes
18:40 marktraceur I like -rin
18:40 sapier :-) interesting i use fgrep for those cases
18:41 marktraceur Also useful, git grep
18:45 thexyz ssl on;
18:45 thexyz ssl_certificate /etc/nginx/conf/ssl-unified.crt;
18:45 thexyz woops
18:45 thexyz wrong hole
18:46 codile_ joined #minetest
18:47 Jordach thexyz, lol
18:47 rotor112 I found it: content_mapblock.cpp
18:48 rotor112 line727
18:48 rotor112 you could add WHEATLIKE
18:49 Calinou use nodeboxes 8)
18:49 Calinou you can make WHATEVERTHEFUCKYOUWANTLIKE
18:49 Calinou (but no "slopes")
18:49 rotor112 there you can
18:49 marktraceur drawtype: 'penislike'
18:49 marktraceur Boy that's just inviting hilarity.
18:51 rotor112 I haven't seen Zeg9 at his server for a long time
18:51 Jordach Calinou, be fair, farming looks like shit with plantlike
18:52 * Jordach starts minetest with a truckload of mods
18:52 john_minetest marktraceur: lol. This drawtype would let the number of immature players go over 9000.
18:52 Jordach mem usage @ 500mb
18:53 john_minetest rotor112: Zeg9 is writing a little platformer. So he hasn't got much time.
18:53 rotor112 ok
18:53 marktraceur john_minetest: Yeah, because there aren't immature players already.
18:53 * john_minetest puts a kitten on marktraceur's head ;)
18:54 VanessaE as for plantlike, why not just use four 2-d nodeboxes to make the minecraft equivalent?
18:54 rotor112 -0.5 -0.5 -2.5       0.5 0.5 -2.5
18:54 VanessaE exactly
18:54 VanessaE well not quite
18:54 Calinou Jordach: +1
18:54 Calinou we could use nodeboxes to make wheat look like minecraft wheat :P
18:54 rotor112 2d nodboxes doesn't work yet
18:54 Calinou <Jordach> mem usage @ 500mb
18:55 VanessaE {-0.5, -0.5, -0.3, 0.5, 0.5, -0.3}
18:55 Jordach Calinou, thats with mesecons, bobblocks, and more
18:55 Calinou 4.1% of all my ram
18:55 VanessaE rotor112: yes they do, I've used them before.
18:55 Jordach Calinou, also with VanessaE's HDX
18:55 Calinou rotor112: make them infinitely thin and it'll work
18:55 rotor112 I tried it and it didn't work
18:55 VanessaE rotor112: see Homedecor's doors.
18:55 rotor112 the 2d box
18:56 rotor112 ok
18:56 VanessaE infinitely thin nodeboxes are used there to good effect.
18:56 Calinou worksforme
18:56 VanessaE {-0.5, -0.5, -0.3, 0.5, 0.5, -0.3}
18:56 VanessaE {-0.5, -0.5, 0.3, 0.5, 0.5, 0.3}
18:56 VanessaE {-0.3, -0.5, -0.5, -0.3, 0.5, 0.5}
18:56 VanessaE {0.3, -0.5, -0.5, 0.3, 0.5, 0.5}
18:57 VanessaE there.  Minecraft plantlike drawtype as nodeboxes.
18:57 Jordach VanessaE, christ -- HDX looks really "real"
18:57 VanessaE though my dimensions are probably off by a tad.
18:57 PilzAdam nodebox channel flodding?
18:57 rotor112 why not 2.5?
18:57 VanessaE Jordach: of course it does.
18:57 Calinou 0.3 is off yeah
18:57 VanessaE rotor112: because the range is -0.5 to +0.5
18:57 Calinou MC wheat = 4 planes off by 2 pixels (1/8 of a block)
18:57 VanessaE Calinou: well, that'd be +/- 0.25, close enough.
18:58 VanessaE {-0.5, -0.5, -0.25, 0.5, 0.5, -0.25}
18:58 VanessaE {-0.5, -0.5, 0.25, 0.5, 0.5, 0.25}
18:58 VanessaE {-0.25, -0.5, -0.5, -0.25, 0.5, 0.5}
18:58 VanessaE {0.25, -0.5, -0.5, 0.25, 0.5, 0.5}
18:58 VanessaE there.
18:58 VanessaE PilzAdam: use those :-)
18:59 rotor112 you don't need horizontraltree.png
18:59 VanessaE nope.
18:59 Calinou VanessaE: no, ±0.125
18:59 VanessaE tree.png^[transformR90
18:59 Calinou yeah, i'll add hardcoded rotated textures
18:59 sapier1 joined #minetest
18:59 VanessaE Calinou: oops, you're right.  I went for 4 px
18:59 VanessaE however, 0.25 would make the plants evenly spaced.
19:00 rotor112 r=270, not r=80
19:00 VanessaE Calinou: that's how I do rotated tree trunks in moretrees, with ^[transformR90
19:00 rotor112 90*
19:00 VanessaE rotor112: either way is fine for a tree trunk
19:00 Calinou is it possible to use angles like 45? :P
19:00 VanessaE it's not like it'll matter in practice :-)
19:00 VanessaE Calinou: no
19:00 Calinou out of curiosity
19:00 Calinou k
19:00 VanessaE only 90/180/270 and flipping h/v
19:01 rotor112 HybridDog used it at his swamp mod
19:01 rotor112 what about -90?
19:01 VanessaE -90 = 270.
19:02 * Jordach noticed that jordach is getting 60fps dead
19:02 rotor112 sometimes yaw=360
19:02 VanessaE rotating a quarter turn left is the same as three quarters turn to the right.
19:02 rotor112 but 360=0
19:02 VanessaE yup
19:02 VanessaE that happens.
19:02 rotor112 maybe it's not exactly
19:02 SpeedProg joined #minetest
19:03 VanessaE it's supposed to be.
19:03 SpeedProg joined #minetest
19:03 Calinou done
19:03 SpeedProg joined #minetest
19:04 VanessaE Calinou: new recipes? ;)
19:04 * VanessaE ducks and runs
19:04 Calinou no new recipes :P
19:04 Calinou just removed the rotated textures
19:04 VanessaE lazy ;)
19:05 rotor112 http://cornernote.net/goveg/love_pigs.jpg
19:05 VanessaE bah
19:05 VanessaE don't start that shit here.
19:05 rotor112 ok
19:06 rotor112 he uses new pictures
19:06 rotor112 I think
19:06 * VanessaE will stick to eating dead pig/cow/fowl, thanks.
19:08 rotor112 http://www.fsbio-hannover.de/oftheweek/189/tot.JPG
19:08 VanessaE looks like a garr
19:08 rotor112 http://www.saulustig.com/e107_files/public/1320026720_1136_FT6138_chr-toter-fisch-1.jpg
19:09 celeron55 who is this rotor112
19:09 * Jordach just noticed the little message in HDX's tv screen
19:09 rotor112 it's a fish
19:10 rotor112 http://ermi.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/2007-05-19_tote_katze_1_kle.jpg
19:10 celeron55 i am asking who you are
19:10 VanessaE Jordach: I thought someone would like that :-)
19:10 celeron55 and why are you linking cornernote's stuff
19:10 celeron55 and the other things
19:10 VanessaE indeed.
19:10 celeron55 this also servers as a warning of +q
19:10 rotor112 only the first one is cornernotes
19:10 celeron55 serves*
19:11 celeron55 do you understand this is the channel of Minetest, and your links have nothing to do with Minetest?
19:11 rotor112 now i do
19:12 celeron55 so now you either go find an another place for rotten corses, or stop linking them anywhere whatsoever
19:12 rotor112 ok
19:12 celeron55 good
19:13 Jordach corpses*
19:13 webdesigner97 joined #minetest
19:13 celeron55 blame my keyboard 8)
19:13 rotor112 but I'm allowed to link stuff of minetest
19:13 Jordach blame? dont you mean: your fingers suck, they need to type better!
19:14 sapier1 celeron did you yesterday read my explanation why I think limitng collision check by dtime is better than by absolute value?
19:14 sapier1 roto112 if you don't spam you most likely are
19:15 rotor112 what do you think about stones in the dirt texture? https://raw.github.com/HybridDog/HybridTP/master/default_dirt.png
19:16 sapier 16x16 is too small for a link ;-P
19:16 Jordach rotor112, looks "like" that other game
19:16 rotor112 ok
19:16 Jordach VanessaE, youre going to hate my gamemode
19:17 sapier if you really want to show how it's gonna look like create a mod and make a screenshot
19:17 VanessaE Jordach: why?
19:17 Jordach try taking a picture of iridium?
19:17 Jordach -?
19:17 Jordach iridium shines like the rainbow
19:17 Jordach (and is fuckton expensive)
19:18 VanessaE hm
19:18 VanessaE I'm sure I could find something suitable
19:18 VanessaE but
19:19 VanessaE are you sure you're not thinking of gallium?
19:19 VanessaE no wait, not gallium
19:19 VanessaE um
19:20 VanessaE bismuth
19:20 VanessaE that was the stuff
19:20 jin_xi hey guise
19:20 Jordach hello
19:21 jin_xi anyone in here like roguelikes?
19:21 VanessaE not familiar with it.
19:21 VanessaE Jordach: iridium seems to be a fairly plain grey metal, but bismuth sure gets colorful
19:21 Jordach VanessaE, thats the unpolished stuff
19:21 kaeza jin_xi, somewhat
19:22 VanessaE http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/75/Bi-crystal.jpg
19:22 kaeza yes*
19:22 jin_xi cool, you have made the irc mod, right?
19:22 kaeza yep
19:22 jin_xi i keep on coming back to the thought of using nethack as a dungeon generator for minetest
19:23 kaeza hmm... interesting...
19:23 kaeza though I'm more of a roguelike player. I have no idea about the dungeon generation algorithm
19:23 jin_xi like, run a nh server alongside mt and add a portal to the dungeons of doom. one per player per world... or idk
19:24 kaeza ah
19:24 Doc22 back
19:24 jin_xi use 3x3x3 blocks per dungeon tile
19:24 john_minetest OMG! Just found out I didn't have nethack installed! That's bad. "yes | sudo pacman -S nethack"
19:24 kaeza john_minetest, DoomRL FTW!
19:25 jin_xi whats wrong with nethack.alt.org
19:25 jin_xi i got so used to play with the lag local nethack feels weird now
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19:49 harrison taking care of bismuth
19:49 harrison ( bto )
19:51 VanessaE *groan*
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19:59 PilzAdam gtg; bye
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20:20 kang_ http://www.zimg.eu/i/3083104299 dinky oil rig lol
20:23 sokomine these liscences are really complicated :-(
20:23 kang_ which ones?
20:23 jojoa1997 simple just do WTFPL if you made it
20:25 sokomine all of them! i'm not sure which one to take for my mods. they're pretty simple. still wtfpl isn't exactly what i want
20:25 jojoa1997 do the general public one
20:25 jojoa1997 it is WTFPL but it cant be used for comercial licences
20:25 sokomine i'd like to give something back under the gpl, but that seems exaggerated for a mod (which is open source anyway)
20:25 jojoa1997 what is this for
20:25 neko259 joined #minetest
20:26 kang_ if you dont care about credit or reproductions, CC0, WTFPL, et .
20:26 kang_ *etc.
20:26 sapier I recommend CC-BY-SA or CC-SA
20:26 kang_ if you want credit then CC BY SA is good
20:26 sokomine yes. maybe gpl is best. that seems to be the one the main game is written under
20:26 kaeza <jojoa1997> it is WTFPL but it cant be used for comercial licences <== ???
20:27 kang_ then CC NY NC
20:27 sokomine cc-by-sa looks good as well, yes. but what are the real differences to e.g. the gpl?
20:27 kang_ *CC BY NC
20:27 sapier gpl is far from WTFPL
20:27 kang_ i dont know much about the GPL except it keeps popping up in debates on slashdot so i avoid it lol
20:27 sapier gplv3 is worst for commercial usage
20:28 kang_ crux of those debates yeah
20:28 sokomine nc goes too far. i'd feel uncomftable about commercial use, but c in this case seems to include such things as distributions on dvd or similar things - would be rather counterproductive
20:28 kang_ well you might want to consider NC if you dont own the source textures or sounds
20:28 thexyz gpl has almost no sense
20:28 thexyz (for minetest mods)
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20:28 kang_ you dont want to  be liable if someone else tries to sell them lol
20:29 sapier yes so CC-BY-SA seems fine ... you have to be mentioned and your code needs to stay free
20:29 thexyz because you never distribute mods in binary form
20:29 ruskie sapier, gpl doesn't limit commercial use
20:29 ruskie none of the gpl versions limit commercial use... they just limit proprietary use
20:30 sokomine i usually don't do textures and neither sounds; where textures come into play, i'll pass on what the texture-creator wants (hm, maybe that's why there are so few texture contributors...they're afraid of having to choose a liscence as well :-))
20:30 sapier not with words but gplv3 rule to make all patents open in fact prohibits its usage for most complanies
20:30 kang_ are binary mods even technically possible?
20:30 kaeza yup
20:30 ruskie sapier, well it's either that or dismantle the broken USPTO... take your pick
20:30 ruskie swpats are a broken idea
20:30 sokomine yes, thexyz. it is already source code and unusuable without the source. so you suggest cc-by-sa or something like that?
20:31 sapier USPTO?
20:31 ruskie us patent and trademark office
20:31 ruskie that's why that's in the license
20:31 sapier I wonder what would happen if someone would translate lua mod code 1:1 to c++ code ... not quite sure if this wouln't be cought by gpl
20:31 kaeza kang_, http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=3905
20:31 thexyz sokomine: i use wtfpl for all my mods
20:32 kang_ then there are the various national laws that apply to different users like fair use
20:32 kang_ decompilers are legal in some places and in others ain't
20:32 kaeza kang_, that mod uses luasocket, which is compiled to a .so/.dll
20:32 kaeza so in some sense, is a binary mod
20:32 sokomine yes. at least gpl and the cc-things seem to be known here as well
20:33 sapier yes and gpl should be law-tested in many countries
20:33 sapier most CC licenses should be tested too
20:33 ruskie it's certainly more legaly tested than 99% of EULAS
20:34 sapier that's not very difficult .. as some companies create invalid eulas on purpose
20:35 sapier it's no risk for them as adding a salvatory cause will ensure all legal parts will stay ... while others certainly will be taken for fact by most users (at least those reading it at all)
20:36 ruskie anyway for least restrictions on reuse/distribution BSD, WTFPL, CC0 for restrictions of distribution but not use GPL and similar for restrictions on use CC-*-NC
20:37 kang_ which one: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/01/Solitary_Oil_Rig_In_The_Arabian_Sea.jpg or this one: http://gcaptain.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/111118main_oil_rig.jpg ?
20:37 sokomine what is cco?
20:37 sapier but as always it's your decision
20:38 ruskie sokomine, basically public domain
20:38 sapier CC0 is almost same as WTFPL
20:38 sapier public domain isn't defined in many countries
20:38 ruskie true
20:38 sokomine ah, so cc without any additions?
20:38 sapier yes
20:39 VanessaE CC0.
20:39 VanessaE the 0 is needed
20:39 sapier yes CC0 is CC without restructions ;-)
20:39 sokomine ah, ok
20:40 sokomine the "by" part is common curtesy i think (at least when the author can be found - and in the end all is based on the work of others to some degree)
20:40 sapier BY means author must be added in form author required it to be added
20:41 ruskie yeah byline
20:41 ruskie aka copyright XXXX someone
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20:41 ruskie I generally simply go with how much effort did I put into something, how much did I copy from elsewhere, who do I expect to use this and for what
20:43 sapier mobf for example is about 3 months of work ... considering normal work time :-) I think a BY is not too much to expect if someone copys it :-)
20:44 ruskie I generally consider a byline to be the least I can do with crediting someone else if I take anything from them
20:44 sokomine definitely not :-) mobf is more complex than my mods
20:44 * sokomine nods to ruskie
20:44 sapier this is goof practice but not everyone does follow this convention if not forced to do
20:44 ruskie true
20:45 ruskie I'm not a fan of the CC licenses since they are a bit to loose in certain regards but I guess in the current copyright climate they are a good compromise
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20:47 sokomine hm. still the gpl seems to fit best for any source code. those cc-versions seem to be aimed at other things
20:47 ruskie true
20:47 ruskie the cc stuff is more for books, music and other such media
20:47 sapier yes but lua isn't exactly source code ...at least it's not used as source code most of time
20:48 ruskie it is source code
20:48 ruskie you write it and then run it and it's interpreted
20:48 ruskie any compilation happens at runtime usually
20:48 sapier we already had this discussion some time ago :-) my definition of source code is code that is (common) compiled to binary code
20:48 ruskie just gets interpreted down to machine code eventually
20:48 ruskie I know
20:48 ruskie hehe
20:49 ruskie it's what I've been thought at coding/compsci classes
20:49 SpeedProg joined #minetest
20:49 ruskie and it's what so far most people understand
20:50 sapier the limits are fluid
20:50 marktraceur "preferred representation for editing the program" or something. GPL has a really specific definition.
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20:51 sokomine in how far specific?
20:51 sapier you'll be able to find a matching definition to anything if you search long enough ;-)
20:52 marktraceur sokomine: I pretty much just paraphrased it
20:53 marktraceur "preferred representation"
20:53 sapier it's intended for c/c++ programs so lua wasn't quite in focus when it was written
20:54 marktraceur Well, it means you need to distribute the lua files as opposed to e.g. luac
20:54 kaeza yay minetest now has an "official" spanish translation!
20:54 kaeza (almost)
20:54 sapier it's from a time where interpreted languages have been far to slow to be usefull
20:54 marktraceur sapier: 2007?
20:55 sapier latest version but its origin is far from 2007
20:55 marktraceur True.
20:55 hmmmm lua is still too slow to be useful
20:56 hmmmm you can't practically do anything in it, we need to keep making new apis that do the actual work
20:56 sapier lua is slow if programmer is to lazy to do it right
20:56 marktraceur sapier: Perl version 1 was released two years prior to GPL1
20:56 ruskie should tell that to prosody devs
20:56 marktraceur And Perl 4 was out before the GPLv2
20:56 sapier not far ago anyone told it's impossible to make reasonable mobs in lua only
20:57 hmmmm and how well do the mobs work now, would you say?
20:57 sapier have a try and see yourself ... most problem mobs suffer are core bugs not related to mob functions at all
20:58 hmmmm i don't have a playable minetest setup at the moment
20:58 hmmmm people keep telling me to try X or try Y but i can't
20:59 sapier after removing abms for mob spawning there's almost no lag for common amounts of mobs ... common is something not far from 100 .... I haven't tested much higher numbers but considering cpu load I'd not be surprised it 1k could be handled too
21:00 hmmmm well what sort of hardware are we talking about here
21:00 * VanessaE peeks back in
21:00 VanessaE abms for spawning mobs causes lag?  what kind of settings are you using?
21:00 sapier 4 year old 2.4ghz phenom 2 cores in use
21:00 sapier having hd tv decoding in parallel
21:01 hmmmm dunno about you, but something like "a hundred mobs not lagging" is not an accomplishment for such a new cpu
21:01 hmmmm to me
21:01 sapier spawn on dirt with grass ... which is bad ;-)
21:01 VanessaE I have no troubles using dirt with grass as an abm trigger
21:01 VanessaE what kind of interval, chance, neighbors are you using?
21:02 sapier if you do very low chances it's working but having a single mob spawned each day isn't quite good ... at least for testing
21:02 marktraceur register_abm( { name = 'default:dirt_with_grass', interval = 300000, chance = 300000 } ) :)
21:02 VanessaE heh
21:02 sapier 100 mobs is quite a lot overhead in minetest
21:02 VanessaE sapier: I invite you to try out my plantlife library for spawning your mobs
21:02 VanessaE it has pretty extreme control options
21:03 hmmmm i dunno about you, but being happy about "a hundred mobs not lagging" is pretty depressing and it makes me want to put in luajit even more
21:03 sapier and it doesn't make sense to add more as minetest will loose entity client/server sync very soon as more entities are moving
21:03 VanessaE I've engineered it to be quite fast, imho
21:03 sapier I'll have a look at it if it fits requirements
21:04 sapier stimm on mapgen spawning works fine
21:04 sapier still
21:04 VanessaE plants_lib can do both.
21:05 VanessaE though I suppose for your case, I'd need to add another option to the API to allow a function to be executed instead of just spawning a node.
21:06 sapier reading api this isn't going to work for mobs
21:06 VanessaE oh well.
21:06 VanessaE it was a thought.
21:06 sapier yes but you place nodes
21:06 sapier mobs are entities
21:06 sapier sorry
21:07 VanessaE I know - I can add to the API to execute arbitrary functions too
21:07 sapier I need both, information about surrounding nodes and entites
21:07 VanessaE (the mapgen spawner does that
21:07 VanessaE )
21:07 markveidemanis Im back!!
21:07 VanessaE I should rename this to biome_library :-)
21:07 sokomine hmm: a hundered mobs is ok. there's not much point in having more (in one spot) because you couldn't see them due to not enough space in the viewable range and animal protectors arriving to complain about mass animal keeping :-)
21:07 sapier funny :-) in the end everyone uses same funcionality
21:09 sapier yes and maybe update it to be able to handle entities too .. and customizable checks
21:09 sapier there are some very interesting features in there
21:10 sokomine interaction between plants and animals would be great in the future as well. animals may eat plants
21:11 sapier would be great as currently vanessae's plants are a big problem for mobf ;-)
21:11 VanessaE brb, adding to the API...
21:12 * OldCoder is here for a few minutes. Will do updates tonight if anybody is available to discuss a list.
21:14 sapier vanessae are you checking all that parameters on any abm call?
21:15 VanessaE only those which are set
21:15 sapier have you measured how long this will run in worst case?
21:15 VanessaE with this tweak I'm adding for your use case, some checks will be skipped because they make no sense/
21:15 sapier what checks?
21:16 VanessaE worst case is it takes about 1 second to populate every dirt with grass node with something in the active region.
21:16 sapier mobf needs to check quite a lot things thats reason for not using abmx
21:16 VanessaE and even then that's a bit higher than reality
21:16 sapier 1s will result in server crash for sure
21:16 VanessaE nope.
21:16 VanessaE never happens to me,
21:17 VanessaE remember that there can be several thousand such nodes in the active region
21:17 sapier it will if there's a mob already active
21:17 VanessaE 1s would be the time it takes to fill several thousand such nodes. :-)
21:18 sapier maybe not on a core i7 but on a single core phenom 2.4ghz
21:18 VanessaE in practice, it's more like a few hundredths of a second probably
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21:18 VanessaE I use a Phenom Ii X6 2.6 GHz.
21:18 VanessaE II*
21:18 sapier ok I'll have a trie for mobf 2.1
21:18 Traxie21 Vanessa
21:19 sapier yes but all 6 cores available :-) I've reproduced the dstep problem quite predictable on a virtual machine phenom II
21:19 VanessaE um
21:19 VanessaE MT runs in a single core :-)
21:19 VanessaE Lua isn't multithreaded.
21:19 VanessaE at least not under MT.
21:19 sapier exactly and this is good
21:20 sapier if it was multithreaded mobs would have to add locking on lots of places
21:21 sapier I'll have a try if plant_lib may be a solution for secondary (low chance) spawning ... but you'd make it possible to add entities and to add a custom check callback
21:22 VanessaE sapier: there.  try that out, see if that works for you
21:22 VanessaE (reload API)
21:22 sokomine i'm still for selling mobs through the trader and not too much spawning :-)
21:23 VanessaE I don't know how to do callbacks in Lua, but with arbitrary function calls, it's about the same.
21:23 sokomine (though it's difficult to imagine that traders would sell living deer. but those are great as well)
21:24 sapier vanessa functions aren't different from variables
21:24 sapier just define a parameter that can be set to a function
21:24 VanessaE sapier: I wasn't able to figure it out when I tried earlier today.
21:24 VanessaE I'm still learning the finer points of Lua
21:24 sapier call that function and evaluate its result to true/false
21:25 Traxie21 sapier
21:25 VanessaE see how moretrees uses it in the register_generate_plant() call
21:25 Traxie21 How would one test to see if a file exists, and get a true/false value from it?
21:26 sapier e.g.
21:26 sapier function dosomething(somevar)
21:26 sapier --something done
21:26 sapier return true
21:26 sapier end
21:26 sapier local some_variable = dosomething
21:26 sapier if some_variable() == true then
21:26 sapier --do something else
21:26 sapier end
21:26 markveidemanis HELP..
21:26 markveidemanis .i need to fork moretrees...nut im a n00b in lua
21:26 Traxie21 Translating....
21:27 VanessaE sapier: been there, done that plenty of times.
21:27 markveidemanis i need to make so it only adds vertical trunks and woods
21:27 Traxie21 I need to fork moretrees ... nut in a noob in lua
21:27 markveidemanis no acorns
21:27 sapier traxie21 use os lib but I don't recomend this as any server hoster considering security most likely will want to disable os and io modules of lua
21:27 VanessaE the problem is the modder using the library needs to be able to specify an arbitary function to execute
21:27 markveidemanis no spawning
21:27 VanessaE arbitrary
21:27 Traxie21 Yikes, isnt there a better way sapier?
21:27 VanessaE as in even even the name is arbitrary.
21:27 sapier yes he specifies parameters atm you need to store that parameters atm too
21:28 sapier traxie what do you want to do with that file ?
21:28 Traxie21 simply check and see if it exists
21:28 Traxie21 so that I dont get an error
21:29 VanessaE markveidemanis:  why are you do set against trees appearing *at mapgen time* ?
21:29 sapier what file is it? another mod?
21:29 Traxie21 eg: file = dofile(filename)
21:29 Traxie21 No
21:29 Traxie21 A txt
21:29 Traxie21 if file == nil then return end
21:29 markveidemanis enough trees already generated
21:29 markveidemanis i just need wood to build with and make things look pretty
21:29 sapier why is it possible that this file doesn't exist?
21:30 Traxie21 because it is generated by the mod
21:30 VanessaE markveidemanis: then use the node_defs.lua file, tweak it to work with your particular setup.
21:30 kaeza Traxie21, local f = io.open(filename); if (f) then f:close(); return true; else return false; end
21:30 Traxie21 io.open creates the file too
21:30 Traxie21 owait
21:30 markveidemanis plz help: i cant find anything
21:30 sapier ok so you're already doing bad things ... so you can continue to do bad things ;-)
21:30 VanessaE everything else in moretrees is geared toward actually making trees appear; node_defs.lua defined all of the nodes.
21:30 Traxie21 XXDD
21:30 VanessaE defines*
21:30 Traxie21 Sapier, theres no better way to save variables in playerdata
21:31 markveidemanis but u used name..VARIABLE..whatever
21:31 sapier what do you mean with playerdata?
21:31 kaeza ah hell... nvm
21:31 markveidemanis making it hard to edit it
21:31 Traxie21 I'm making an economy plugin
21:31 sapier you may store any variable to server settings
21:31 markveidemanis if it was:
21:31 Traxie21 Yeah....
21:31 Traxie21 serversettings is carp
21:31 markveidemanis minetest.register_node
21:31 markveidemanis then i could edit it...
21:31 Traxie21 for manual editing
21:31 markveidemanis on #mtmt i am posting a list of changes for MarkTwain server
21:31 sapier yes it is ... but having IO acces for a mod is bad on server hosters point of view
21:32 markveidemanis is it +m when only ops and voiced talk?
21:32 sapier I'm currently working on world based settings support
21:32 LandMine joined #minetest
21:33 sapier it's not quite complicated but I haven't had time to finish it
21:33 Traxie21 sapier, you ought to make a patch where the mods can only create files in their own directory
21:33 Traxie21 Because it is ineffecient to do any other way
21:33 LandMine Fuck all you fuckin queers!
21:33 kaeza left #minetest
21:34 sapier If at all it should be limited to world dir ... but that would require editing lua implementation itself
21:34 LandMine Stfu sapier
21:34 Traxie21 how about both sapier?
21:34 Traxie21 It is easy to make a world-specific directory in the mod folder
21:34 sapier if you run same server on multiple worlds mod folder could be used concurrent at same time
21:35 Traxie21 #kazea, thanks
21:35 LandMine was kicked by VanessaE: LandMine
21:36 VanessaE sapier: even if it isn't something you can use, would you mind checking to see if the option I added at least works?
21:36 sapier vanessae way to call a function would be:
21:36 sapier plants_lib: spawn_on_surfaces({ ... custom_callback = some_user_defined_functionname }
21:36 VanessaE marktraceur: do the whole damn class-B.
21:36 marktraceur Meh. I can deal with one at a time.
21:36 VanessaE marktraceur: he has whole ranges of IP's.
21:36 marktraceur I'm OK with that.
21:37 VanessaE ok
21:37 sapier of couse I'll check but I can't promis when I'll have time atm
21:37 thexyz that was fast!
21:37 VanessaE sapier: no prob.
21:38 VanessaE sapier: see, I tried doing something very much like that (the custom_callback thing) but I could not for the life of me find anything that explains in plain english how to do it in Lua -- that didn't involve some kind of hook into some kind of hypothetical C/C++ progra,m
21:38 VanessaE program*
21:39 sapier did that upper line help?
21:39 kang_ joined #minetest
21:39 VanessaE sapier: I opted instead for detecting whether the modder is passing a table, a string with a node name, or a string with a function name - one variable to control them all (and in the darkness, bind them?)
21:40 VanessaE sapier: so for example,
21:40 VanessaE plantslib:register_generate_plant(moretrees.willow_biome, moretrees.willow_model)
21:40 VanessaE versus
21:40 VanessaE plantslib:register_generate_plant(moretrees.birch_biome, "moretrees:grow_birch")
21:40 sapier if you do your check just add following line to your check abm:
21:40 sapier if custom_callback ~= nil and
21:40 sapier type(custom_callback) == "function" then
21:40 sapier if custom_callback(some parameters usefull) == false then
21:40 sapier -- abort
21:40 sapier end
21:40 sapier end
21:40 VanessaE the former passes a table with a tree model, the latter passes a function name
21:40 Traxie21 brb
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21:41 sapier yes this is what the type check is for to avoid trying to call something that isn't a function
21:41 VanessaE so in the example there (which is obviously from my moretrees mod), willows will be spawned directly by the plants_lib mod using the engine's spawn_tree() call, while birches will be spawned by having plants_lib call the moretrees:grow_birch() function.  hence, it's still like a callback.
21:42 VanessaE I just implemented it differently. :-0
21:42 VanessaE :-)
21:42 VanessaE so I already do what you're suggestion, my syntax is just slightly different is all.
21:42 sapier yes it is
21:42 VanessaE suggesting*
21:42 mauvebic Nakedfury i got the guns to shoot underwater lol
21:43 VanessaE he's here? :)
21:43 sapier true  so the called function may do additional checks
21:43 mauvebic i thot i saw the name in the userlist
21:43 VanessaE sapier: precisely, and it would be the thing that *actually* adds the object/entity/node/whatever
21:44 sapier so I most likely will be able to test it
21:44 VanessaE you asked what checks get skipped if it's a function:  plants_lib won't pay attention to the flags that set spawning on the sides/bottom/top of a node or replaces one, because those obviously have no purpose in that case.
21:45 sapier but I'm not quite sure if I'll be using much of your code in this case anymore ;-) wouldn't be usefull if just replacing a slow abm by a even bigger one ;-) ... but I'll look at it first
21:45 sapier good :-) this isn't usefull true
21:45 VanessaE no prob - remember that lots of code doesn't necessarily translate to slow code :-)
21:46 sapier i know but lots of api calls translate to slow code for sure :-)
21:46 VanessaE true, in theory :-)
21:46 sapier in practice too ... especialy if its a get_node or set_node api call
21:47 sapier but sometimes minetest behaves strange :-)
21:48 sapier I wonder if it'd be possible to add a mod tracing layer between api and lua code
21:48 VanessaE which is why I tried to minimize the number of such calls and group them to take advantage of caching and whatnot
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21:50 sapier yes a good idea :-) I still have to persuade celeron that dtime limiting is superior to limiting acceleration to < 5 blocks per second ;-)
21:50 VanessaE for example, in my register_generate_plants() function, all those checks used to be kinda co-mingled with that final find_nodes_near() call (line 121).  Even though the same amount of code was being executed, moving all of those other checks into a sort of preprocessing loop chopped the execution time by 95% or more.
21:51 sapier find nodes near doesn't result a list of all nodes and positions requested to i remember correctly?
21:51 VanessaE actually it does generate something like that
21:51 sapier does it?
21:51 VanessaE that's the output of the preprocessing step
21:52 sapier you create a list of all node types relevant for checking in first step do i understand correct?
21:52 VanessaE what comes out of that step is literally a list of every node (position) that meets all of the biome criteria.
21:53 sapier ok so I'm wrong
21:53 VanessaE then the program just checks how many objects need to be spawned in the resultant area, and tries to do so.
21:53 sapier how to you get that information?
21:53 sapier information about nodes
21:54 VanessaE it has a give-up threshold of three tries per spawn attempt, so worst case it'll only try maybe 40-50 nodes per 80x80x80 chunk for a typical register_generate_plants() call.
21:54 VanessaE it uses various perlin layers and a couple of find_nodes_in_area() calls
21:54 sapier yes I'm doing same on mapgen
21:54 VanessaE and some simple random number checks.
21:54 sapier without perlin
21:55 sapier ok my primary concern is other mobs nearby so i use get_objects ...
21:56 sapier but it's esentially same
21:56 VanessaE that's one thing that plants_lib doesn't do, directly, but then if you have ot specify a function to execute on spawn, you can do that check there.
21:56 sapier yes I thought so
21:57 VanessaE it*
21:57 sapier but still I don't quite understand how you get information about nodes around an arbitrary position selected for spawning
21:57 VanessaE by checking the entire map chunk for candidate nodes first.
21:58 sapier what defines a candidate?
21:59 VanessaE temperature, humidity, elevation, ground fertility, distance to/from some node you specify, how rare (or not) your object shall be
21:59 sapier in a 3d loop for all nodes?
21:59 VanessaE using find_nodes_in_area() first according to your desired spawn surface.
22:00 VanessaE local searchnodes = minetest.env:find_nodes_in_area(minp, maxp, biome.surface)
22:00 VanessaE searchnodes is then whittled down using the other variables.
22:00 sapier you're brave :-)
22:00 VanessaE so basically, C++ does all of the grunt work
22:01 VanessaE if you pass default:dirt_with_grass to that function, then only a list of dirt_with_grass nodes will be checked by the rest of the preprocessing loop.
22:01 sapier yes but you still get hundreds of nodes if your biome contains air/water/stone
22:01 VanessaE the biome only contains one node first, then the others are tested to see if they're nearby
22:01 sapier hmm this might work for birds
22:02 VanessaE the caller has to decide which nodes are/are not important to look for, and in a way it also decides which node has more priority over the others.
22:02 sapier ok default:warer_source will be enough in most cases too
22:02 VanessaE sure,if you check for said with air as a neighbor, and then check for proximity to water, you can then call your arbitrary function to spawn a seagull above the shoreline
22:02 sapier I wonder how much cpu power would be used to spawn fish doing it this way
22:02 VanessaE sand with air above..
22:03 VanessaE well,
22:03 VanessaE water with say dirt as a neighbor might work.
22:03 VanessaE or say dirt or stone as neighbors.
22:03 VanessaE you get the idea.
22:04 VanessaE even water isn't such a chore to check, flowers mod does this for waterlilies and seaweed.
22:04 sapier yes for some things it'll work ... as always you can't have anything :-)
22:04 VanessaE (but then, I check for water with air as a neighbor)
22:05 sapier I'll try and see
22:05 VanessaE have fun with it :-)
22:06 VanessaE let me know if that function option works right, since I don't have anything predictable to test it with right now.
22:07 sapier I'll do ... you most likely will be able to test it yourself too as I'll have it at least as optional spawning method after adapting it :-) I never remove features completely
22:08 VanessaE oh ok
22:08 sapier there's jordan4ibanez movegen in mobf and a variant doing essentially same as celerons mobs too ... but they're not used for anything as I don't like their movement style :-)
22:08 * VanessaE wonders what celeron55 thinks of plants_lib
22:09 VanessaE <celeron55> its horrible, slow and buggy.  boring.
22:09 VanessaE ;)
22:09 sapier :-) I already know that celeron thinks mobf is far to complex :-) and he is true you can't understand what it's doing in 2 days
22:09 VanessaE haha
22:10 hmmmm i'd rather have buggy interesting stuff than boring stuff that works right all the time
22:10 sapier I'd be glad with boring working entity client/server sync ;-P
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22:10 VanessaE hmmmm: the question then is, is it interesting or boring ;)
22:10 hmmmm nah that was a celeron quote
22:10 VanessaE oh heh
22:10 sapier yes but it was directed to mapgen ;-P
22:11 hmmmm i still think it can apply to other things in life
22:11 sapier especialy the one block needles if I remember correct
22:11 VanessaE indeed, it can
22:11 sapier yes
22:11 VanessaE oh yes now I remember that comment.
22:11 sapier but I'm german we like efficient working things too ;-P
22:12 hmmmm i'm not german but i really like efficiency
22:12 VanessaE "Early!?  Planes are supposed to be late!  It's that damn German efficiency."
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22:13 VanessaE (James Cagney, "One, Two, Three")
22:13 hmmmm haha
22:13 sapier Oh we're learning very fast have a look at berlin airport it'll be late by aproximatly 4 years ... at least atm maybe it'll be 5 or 6 in the end
22:13 VanessaE lol
22:14 VanessaE damn it, and I just realized I botched that quote :)_
22:14 sapier things like that happen if politicians do things a engeneer should have done
22:16 VanessaE heh
22:17 sapier heh? any politicians in here? :_)
22:17 sapier :-)
22:19 marktraceur sapier: We're *all* politicians.
22:19 * marktraceur high-fives his college politics professor
22:21 sapier :-) so you have to be able to cope with that most ppl assume you're lieing as soon as you're talking ... thats requirement for this job ;-P
22:23 marktraceur sapier: Everybody lies. I learned that from my favourite doctor.
22:23 * marktraceur high-fives House.
22:24 hmmmm you know i think i'm going to try RCU for checking if a block is present in memory
22:24 sapier yes ... but it's too obvious for most politicians
22:24 hmmmm that would completely eliminate the need for envlock in lots of cases
22:24 sapier RCU as remote control unit?
22:24 hmmmm read-copy-update
22:24 VanessaE how hard would that be?
22:25 hmmmm not sure
22:25 sapier "eleminate the need for envlock" I'm completely positive with this suggestion ;-)
22:25 hmmmm in _some_ code paths
22:25 hmmmm not all
22:25 VanessaE then we get to look forward to multithreaded Lua later, right? ???  ;-)
22:25 VanessaE (kidding!)
22:25 hmmmm yeah, that's later, sorry
22:25 sapier you can't do everything at once ... but it's step in right direction at least in my oppinion
22:26 hmmmm i feel that if emergethread has unnecessary locking gone it would be super fast
22:26 sapier vanessae it's not that kidding as you thing, I've already thought about how it could be done
22:26 hmmmm and map would load instantly
22:26 VanessaE sapier: I'm kidding because I don't dare ask someone to put forth that kind of work
22:26 hmmmm well there is already a plan for multithreaded lua in the works
22:26 VanessaE turning a single-threaded system into a multithreaded system is not an easy task usuall.
22:26 VanessaE +y
22:27 sapier entities for example would greatly benefit if their on_step handlers could run in parallel
22:27 hmmmm but they have separate interpreters
22:27 hmmmm one for on_generate, and one for the usual mods
22:27 VanessaE hm
22:27 VanessaE I like that
22:27 hmmmm we were talking about it in -dev a month or something ago
22:28 sapier I'm not quite sure ... I think this requires more thinking about
22:28 VanessaE I don't remember the conversation (which is sad, because no doubt I had something or another to say about it ;-)  )
22:30 sapier if there's multithreaded lua I demand lua based locking mechanisms ! :-)
22:31 sapier hmmmm having different interpreters would mean having different namespaces too am i correct?
22:31 VanessaE I don't see why that would be necessaru
22:31 VanessaE necessary*(
22:31 sapier no this was a question
22:31 VanessaE you already know which piece of code has to be executed by virtue of the function/callback you're calling
22:32 sapier I was thinking towards global variables
22:32 VanessaE ah
22:33 sapier if there are different interpretest separating global variables I'd have a huge problem with mobf ... mobs are specified as tables who's pointer is only valid in context of this interpreter but maybe not within mapgen interpreter
22:35 sapier there would be ways to workaround this ... but it'd be ugly
22:40 VanessaE plantlife is similar in that regard, with trees
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23:26 hmmmm sapier, on_generate shouldn't have to bother with any of the other bits of lua...
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23:59 jojoa1997 is it possible to edit the jump height of players

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