Time Nick Message 03:39 benrob0329 That is the cat5tv chanel? 03:45 benrob0329 *what 03:46 paramat oh heh 03:46 paramat https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIcUvKUXCySOjSFCFgZ3otQ/videos 03:47 benrob0329 I mean irc chaanel 03:47 benrob0329 *Chanel 04:45 OldCoder 04:45 OldCoder http://minetest.org/mtcompile.txt 04:46 OldCoder This is a build script created just now for TommyTreasure ^ 04:46 OldCoder 04:46 OldCoder This version is untested but should work with minor tweaks. It is the one, largely, that I use. 08:06 tenplus1 hi folks 08:06 VanessaE hi 08:06 tenplus1 hi VanessaE 08:17 nrzkt hi 08:17 tenplus1 hi nrz 08:18 nrzkt tenplus1, VanessaE: i think i will need you later today (GMT timezone) 08:18 tenplus1 whassup dude ? 08:18 VanessaE ? 08:18 VanessaE what's up? 08:18 VanessaE (or what will be) 08:20 nrzkt i'm finishing the work on https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/5475 i will ask you to give me some player files with criterias on your live servers 08:20 nrzkt not all, but an extract of very old and recent files to test my migration processus 08:21 tenplus1 will check in a bit to see what it's all about :P 08:21 nrzkt i finished the work on player saving/loading from/to database, now i'm working on automatic migration of player files 08:21 VanessaE nrzkt: wait, so the plan is to ditch worlds//players/ ? 08:22 nrzkt exactly 08:22 VanessaE :( 08:22 tenplus1 willi tbe contained in the map or one huge file ? 08:22 VanessaE that's gonna be a big problem for server admins unless you provide a good tool to read/edit a player's record. 08:22 nrzkt many coredevs (including me) wants to change this non reliable behaviour 08:23 nrzkt VanessaE: in fact as it uses relational DB (sql only) it's easy to edit :) 08:23 VanessaE easy if you know databases. 08:23 VanessaE most of us don't :P 08:24 nrzkt tenplus1: player are in a dedicated database in sqlite3, in postgres it depend on which connection chain you set. You can use same as map, but i invite you to have a separated database 08:24 tenplus1 if database becomes corrupt then ALL player files are a risk ? 08:25 nrzkt for server owners needing performance i suggest to use postgresql backend, i will add a notice about the migration, because by default you will migrate to sqlite 08:25 nrzkt database never corrupts if you never do shit yourself with filesystem :) 08:26 tenplus1 just chceking :P 08:26 VanessaE nrzkt: and mapblocks never get corrupted either ;) 08:26 nrzkt VanessaE: yeah, it was my second argument: is your map corrupt ? map is heavy, please files is very tiny 08:26 nrzkt VanessaE: also using database will permit server owners to plug a website over it for dynamic things 08:27 nrzkt imagine a website connecting to your postgres and showing your inventory ? :) 08:27 nrzkt also, i just migrate the player files, not the account file, this will be done in another PR 08:27 VanessaE my point (and tenplus1's) I think is that if something gets trashed in the player database, minetest needs to handle it sanely 08:27 nrzkt there is not player removal from core engine, if you remove it yourself you should know what you are doing 08:28 nrzkt for sqlite backend, just copy the sqlite file 08:28 nrzkt for a backup, like your map 08:28 nrzkt for pg: pg_dump > database.sql 08:30 nrzkt i will document th process heavily because it's an important change for server owners (less important for local games) 08:30 VanessaE well let's just suppose this player database gets damaged (nevermind how). suppose the corruption only exists in two players' records, such that they're broken, unreadable, whatever. what will MT do? 08:30 nrzkt it's impossible to have records broken in a database 08:30 tenplus1 hypothetically, what IF it happens? 08:30 VanessaE don't split hairs. 08:30 nrzkt restore your backup, like every system 08:31 VanessaE what happens if two players' inventories are corrupted and the admin can't spot it right away? 08:31 VanessaE what will MT do when it loads the database? 08:31 nrzkt also, just for a note, i have heavy write postgresql databases at work (> 1To disk space) and no corruption happens, never 08:32 VanessaE you're still avoiding the question... :) 08:32 nrzkt MT load the data in database, if db is corrupted, either MT do'nt start because sqlite3 drive rsee it, or postgresql server doesn't start because it's corrupted 08:33 nrzkt and, honestly, if a relational DB is corrupted, it's because your underlayer disk is corrupted, then damages are very important and you should have done backups, it's not possible to not do backups, it's your responsiblity 08:33 VanessaE ok, so one broken player record, the whole database is trashed and MT can't load it. 08:33 nrzkt no 08:33 nrzkt you misunderstand 08:34 nrzkt i said, a record cannot be broken by MT, it can only be broken because your server is dying 08:34 VanessaE or because some write process crashed. 08:34 nrzkt database are more intelligent than MT coredevs 08:35 tenplus1 currently having all player files seperately means easier fixing by deleting the broken player files, the new all-in-one database would need to be updated on a daily basis just incase so it's available for recovery, sometimes more than once in a day for all new players 08:35 nrzkt write process crash on MT means you have a bug in your sqlite driver 08:35 tenplus1 hi ben 08:35 nrzkt for postgresql a database crash only mean the last change is lost and you use the previous record version 08:35 VanessaE if a world's map.sqlite can on occasion return corrupt mapblocks through no fault of the hardware or sqlite3, then so can a player database. 08:35 VanessaE that's all I'm saying. 08:36 VanessaE in the case of a map.sqlite, you can at least configure MT to ignore errors (though I forget what it actually does - empty mapblock?). the same should be true of the player database. 08:36 nrzkt for DB corruption i want to say, just use a strong database, use postgresql, sqlite3 is lightweight but has some cons, if you don't enable sqlite WAL you are dead i ncase of recent corruption 08:37 VanessaE WAL? 08:37 nrzkt write ahead logs, it's the write logging for the database, containing the differential changes before including them to the real database storage 08:37 nrzkt it permits a point in time recovery if there is a problem with last logs 08:38 VanessaE sounds like a journaled file system. 08:38 nrzkt yeah it's like this 08:38 VanessaE ok. 08:38 VanessaE all of this aside, the need for tools to read/edit a player's record will be needed. 08:39 nrzkt for postgresql, you have WAL too, but it's not needed because your postgresql storage pool grow in time and postgresql wil lhave dead rows corresponding to last rows version and will recycle them when they are long time dead 08:39 tenplus1 having admin commands in-game would be handy for removing player files completely 08:39 VanessaE (even if it consists of a few chatcommands like "/player delete inv_slot 4" or "/player whereis " or something 08:39 VanessaE ) 08:40 nrzkt an inventory slot cannot be deleted, it can only be empty 08:40 VanessaE well I will most definitely not mess with postgres. 08:40 VanessaE nrzkt: s/delete/clear/ 08:40 tenplus1 yeah... we have /whereis /reset_homepos and /reset_bedpos to help 08:40 VanessaE I don't of course mean to remove the slot but merely to empty it 08:41 nrzkt homepos is not in minetest core engine 08:41 VanessaE anything you can do with a text editor on a player file now, you need to be able to do from within Minetest. 08:41 nrzkt it can be interesting but not easy to do within minetest, in SQL it's easier because you do requests directly on data and have the view you need 08:42 nrzkt select * from player where name='VanessaE' 08:42 VanessaE why not easy? 08:42 nrzkt it's not difficult 08:42 tenplus1 this would make for a good mod 08:42 nrzkt because we will need very huge amout of code for single SQL operations, SQL is a standard language permitting to query easily 08:42 VanessaE does not Minetest know that player has item in slot 2, and was last at coords x,y,z, and had a,b,c,d, and e, in their crafting grid? 08:43 nrzkt it only nows that if player is loaded, but never if player is not connected 08:43 nrzkt knows* 08:43 VanessaE then it needs to load the player's record from the database when requested. 08:43 nrzkt it doesn't do this at this moment for player files 08:43 VanessaE I know 08:44 VanessaE but it doesn't NEED to either 08:44 VanessaE but if you convert the player files into one big monolithic database, then you're gonna need to make it easy for admins to manage its content without resorting to sql commands. 08:44 nrzkt i will not do this for this PR, it needs to be discussed with other devs, not only you to define a roadmap about edition, i tend to prefer an external tool 08:44 nrzkt delete from player where name = 'VanessaE'; 08:45 nrzkt bye bye all VanessaE data :) 08:45 VanessaE that means chatcommands in Minetest, simple stuff like above. 08:45 VanessaE nrzkt: my experience with other servers' admins is that you can't expect them to remember that 08:45 VanessaE let alone more complex queries to change a record. 08:45 nrzkt remember one thing, if we add an interface to a deletion command, a mod can delete all your players 08:45 tenplus1 not if it requires SERVER priv 08:45 tenplus1 which it should 08:46 VanessaE a mod doesn't need privs 08:46 nrzkt tenplus1: but if i have a rogue mod i installed which hide this call ? 08:46 VanessaE he makes a good point, but to be fair, the same is true if mod security is disabled now 08:46 VanessaE a mod would execute a 'rm' command and delete a player file 08:46 nrzkt yes, but mod security will not prevent a database call :) 08:47 nrzkt but yes i can add at first a lua call to remove a disconnected player 08:47 nrzkt it's the minimum 08:47 VanessaE well that's the responsibility of a server admin to at least know if a mod they install is dangerous. 08:47 nrzkt VanessaE: yes ofc 08:47 tenplus1 exactly 08:48 nrzkt i think our future mod store should look at lua calls to shows the mod perms 08:49 nrzkt okay i include a point in this PR for adding a lua call to remove players 08:49 VanessaE and anyway, who says you have to open up raw database calls to Lua anyway? 08:49 OldCoder So saith the Lord 08:49 VanessaE I'm talking simple chat commands (or equivalent). 08:49 tenplus1 lol 08:49 nrzkt VanessaE: do we have builtin commands ? 08:50 nrzkt or are all commands in mods ? 08:50 VanessaE nrzkt: I don't know for sure. some I think 08:50 tenplus1 for this particular playerfile change the commands should be hidden away in core 08:50 VanessaE but we have little or nothing that deals with player records, but again, we don't need them yet. if players are in a database, we will need these things. 08:51 nrzkt tenplus1: i can only set them in builtin to respect our model :) 08:51 VanessaE and again, I am not suggesting Lua API calls either. just chat commands. 08:52 VanessaE just simple stuff to dump a player's record, change something in it (like if they got their hands on an admin pick, I should be able to remove it), etc. 08:53 VanessaE it doesn't have to be elaborate. it just has to replace the common reasons one might choose to edit a player file as they exist right now. 08:53 tenplus1 +1 08:54 nrzkt dump a player record has no real sense o nyour screen 08:54 VanessaE doesn't it? 08:54 VanessaE I don't mean to dump the raw data 08:54 VanessaE I mean just show me what I might see were this player's record still stored in a flat file. 08:55 nrzkt i should look at coreside C++ commands but i don't think we have them, and i don't know if we have pure builtin possible calls, i don't think 08:56 nrzkt okay a json styled representation can have some sense 08:57 VanessaE not even that much. just some basic representation that looks like it could be a Lua table. 08:57 VanessaE keep it simple. 08:57 nrzkt it's similar output xD 08:58 VanessaE ok 08:59 VanessaE "player model"? 08:59 VanessaE maybe you meant "player record" :P 08:59 nrzkt the player representation 09:00 nrzkt not player record is not the good term, as in database you have many records for a single player 09:00 nrzkt (1 entry for player, 1 entry for each player inventory, 1 entry for each item in inventories, 1 entry for each player extra attribute) 09:00 VanessaE don't call it a model, might be too easy to confuse with "the player model" as in the thing you see walking around in-game :) 09:00 nrzkt also SQL permits to do nice things 09:01 nrzkt imagine you want to kill all your players 09:01 nrzkt UPDATE players set health = 0; 09:01 nrzkt it only kills non connected players :p 09:01 VanessaE back in the old days, a "record" was a collection of entries related to one thing. 09:01 VanessaE a "player record" in that context would mean exactly what you described 09:06 OldCoder In the old days, a "record" rotated at 45 rpm 09:06 VanessaE anyway, some of us still think in terms of flat files :) 09:06 VanessaE OldCoder: if that's the old days, you' 09:06 VanessaE you're younger than you seem :P 09:07 tenplus1 dunno how many corrupt player files I've deleted to fix an issue 09:07 OldCoder VanessaE, I am old enough to be nearly your father. tenplus1, I have a test to delete them on start if corrupted. 09:07 OldCoder Saves a lot of trouble 09:07 VanessaE ... 09:07 * OldCoder did have 78s 09:07 OldCoder 78s were cool 09:07 VanessaE man, why do you always have to spoil the joke? 09:08 * OldCoder wants his 78s back 09:08 OldCoder Because I'm literal 09:08 OldCoder It is what it is 09:08 VanessaE well stop it. 09:08 * OldCoder can't stop what he is 09:08 OldCoder tenplus1, files do get corrupted 09:08 OldCoder It's a weak spot 09:08 * OldCoder had Robin Williams on LP. Probably 33 1/3. 09:09 * OldCoder thinks there should be a MT _game that resembles Atari 2600. Good fit. 09:09 * OldCoder will add some 78s to his jukebox/radio mod 09:11 VanessaE guess I'll have to rewrite my "clear abandoned noob accounts" script. 09:16 nrzkt tenplus1: corrupted files are due to minetest process itself being very rude and raw, a database is hopefully more secure :p 09:16 tenplus1 the whole auth.txt is messy 09:17 tenplus1 and playerfiles in the folder gather and mess with hdd/sdd 09:18 VanessaE I understand the reasoning behind moving player data into a single database file, don't get me wrong. 09:18 nrzkt tenplus1: when the players will be in database i will work after on auth in database but it's more complicated due to the lua interface 09:18 VanessaE I'm just concerned about being able to manipulate it without resorting to sqlite queries that I'll never be able to remember. 09:18 nrzkt auth database has another pro: you will share your accounts across your servers :) 09:18 VanessaE sure, if you use postgres or redis or something 09:19 nrzkt only postgresql & sqlite will be supported for this, redis is a caching system, it has no security, no transactions 09:19 VanessaE (sqlite doesn't like to let two processes access one db file) 09:19 nrzkt VanessaE: right 09:19 nrzkt for sharing you will need postgresql, sqlite is for mono server 09:24 VanessaE I...think I'll just let each server have its own databases, like it is now 09:24 VanessaE this is already getting too complicated for me. 09:25 tenplus1 yup 09:28 * tenplus1 tests latest Midori browser 09:59 tenplus1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_Wvlgop-bo lol 10:28 tenplus1 may I ask a favour of everyone, could you maybe watch and if you like thumbs up this youtube video so it can get 150 likes and Xanadu will appear in the next one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaSYynSxAuY 11:54 lordfingle yo 11:55 tenplus1 hi fingle 11:56 lordfingle I'm about to upgrade to your latest npc. Thought I'd login to chat for fun before I did so. :) 11:57 lordfingle I like playerplus, but I think it probably needs to "remember" the last few nod_stand, nod_foot etc for my walkover event. That way my timer can be lazier 11:57 lordfingle Hope that makes sense. 11:57 lordfingle I'm trying to reduce the about of rapid globalsteps 11:58 tenplus1 I hear you... playerplus checks every 1 seconds and updates global vars 12:00 lordfingle yup. mobs_redo does as well. This stresses me out a bit, 'cos if there's too many mods around things start to get very slow 12:01 tenplus1 the whole reason we need the engine to handle step checks for players (to reduce getnode's) 12:02 lordfingle It would be nice for mobs to have their own thread 12:03 tenplus1 if only :P 12:03 lordfingle Have you experimented with coroutines at all? 12:04 tenplus1 coroutines ???? 12:04 lordfingle https://www.lua.org/pil/9.1.html 12:04 lordfingle I saw a thread somewhere where some minetest.* calls work with them and some dont 12:05 lordfingle https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1709 12:05 lordfingle If everything was magical and wonderful, your docustom could be a coroutine 12:06 tenplus1 looks interesting 12:07 lordfingle It seems too good to be true, but might be worth investigating IDK 12:08 tenplus1 would be nice to have a way to handle threads in mt... have mods/game run a little smoother 12:09 lordfingle igor the npc....interesting 12:09 tenplus1 heheh, made that one for halloween, has 8 different skind 12:09 tenplus1 *skins 12:09 tenplus1 many players made a castle and wanted an igor for down below to protect it 12:10 lordfingle of course, no castle is complete without an Igor 12:10 tenplus1 and if you right click with gold ingot he drops different items than npc 12:12 lordfingle I've just realised that although I do have your npc mod, it has been the "peaceful npcs" (jojoa1997) mod that has been populating my world. Perhaps I'll switch it's engine over to mobs redo.... 12:12 lordfingle https://github.com/jojoa1997/peaceful_npc 12:13 lordfingle Looks like these dudes open doors. Do you open doors? 12:14 tenplus1 nope 12:15 tenplus1 I coudl add that tothe new pathfinding level2 functions 12:15 tenplus1 can already break walls and build up to get to player 12:15 lordfingle the code looks very simple (eg https://github.com/jojoa1997/peaceful_npc/blob/master/npc/npc_def.lua) if you're interested 12:15 Calinou hi 12:16 tenplus1 alreadythere :PPP 12:16 tenplus1 hi cal 12:16 lordfingle hi! 12:16 lordfingle theres some nice models and textures there too 12:16 tenplus1 I only have 2 npc textures (male/female), 8 igor textures and 3 trader textures... 12:17 tenplus1 hi lumidify 12:17 lumidify Hi tenplus1 12:18 lordfingle people have found peaceful npcs fun to look at, but they're pretty dumb 12:18 lordfingle maybe it's time to merge ;) 12:18 tenplus1 redo npc's wander around aimlessly, kill monsters nearby, follow players if owned and attack players who mess with them :D 12:19 Calinou https://lut.im/Z9QuoLt4WY/PP6od59RPnhOaNIT.png 12:19 lordfingle peaceful npcs are much the same but I havent seen them attack a player. It would be nice if they did 12:19 Calinou I heard one of them will even talk to you about sneak glitches 12:19 lordfingle lol 12:20 tenplus1 which dont exist now... pah! 12:20 lordfingle I don't think they know about beloved glitches 12:20 lordfingle It's time we moved to implementing MT developers as NPCs 12:21 tenplus1 latest daily build has errors in carts 12:21 tenplus1 cart_entity.lua:96 unexpected symbol near 'and' 12:21 tenplus1 ????????????? 12:21 lordfingle afk 12:22 behalebabo a fix has been pushed, in 5fe831ed139d882b2838cbd75caa1f5a4d9674ad 12:22 Jordach Calinou, christ that was dank 12:22 Calinou dank, danker, dankest 12:22 tenplus1 o.O no way!!!!!! I just checked, I cant sneak along ledges anymore..... dammit!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 12:23 tenplus1 hi robbie 12:23 tenplus1 some of the best mt parkour had ledges to sneak across.... 12:25 behalebabo tenplus1: are you testing with the sneak glitch enabled? 12:26 behalebabo hmm, should be on by default still anyway 12:27 tenplus1 default world with no mods running 12:27 tenplus1 shoudl be enabled 12:30 tenplus1 hi ben 12:38 * Jordach feels like nerfing food but in a good way 12:39 tenplus1 lol 12:39 Jordach food can still stack 12:39 Jordach but foods that require cutlery and such will leave dirty equivilents that need to be cleaned before they can be used again 12:40 Jordach these dirty items don't stack at all 12:41 Jordach their craftable state stacks 12:46 RobbieF benrob0329 - thanks for the note!! Updating now. 12:46 RobbieF TPS-Scifi is now up to date. 12:46 tenplus1 turns out pathfinding level2 mobs/npc's dont need to open doors, they simple break them down :P 12:47 Jordach tenplus1, ayy lmao 14:08 benrob0329 Hello 14:08 benrob0329 (I leave my phone connected tobi 14:09 benrob0329 *to irc) 14:50 benrob0329 https://vid.me/ffD3 14:54 nerzhul in lua can we do continue keyword ? 14:56 benrob0329 I believe so 15:10 Fixer hi 15:25 Fixer no tidyman when you need it 15:40 Calinou https://www.reddit.com/user/xNotch 15:40 Calinou so many awards 15:45 Fixer Calinou: such much awards 15:48 Calinou also, he basically gets lifetime free reddit gold 15:48 Calinou as if he wasn't rich enough :( 15:50 Calinou :O 15:50 Calinou if you have tons of points on a single comment, it shows in "k" units 15:50 Calinou https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/4p5p22/whats_up_with_notch_on_twitter/d4io9q9/ 15:50 Calinou 17.2k points 15:50 Calinou that's the first time I've seen this 15:51 Calinou (also, wow, he basically got 6.67 times my lifetime comment karma acquired in 5.5 years, in a single comment) 16:07 tenplus1 hi folks 16:09 twoelk o/ 16:19 benrob0329 Calinou: great words will go a long ways. 16:19 Calinou benrob0329: well, sometimes he says stuff like "wat" and gets 9 points 16:19 Calinou I can't get away with that :) 16:19 tenplus1 lol 16:20 Calinou hi tenplus1 :) 16:20 tenplus1 hi al 16:20 tenplus1 er... hi Cal :P 16:20 * tenplus1 thinks he needs a new keyboard soon 16:20 Calinou tenplus1: https://hastebin.com/hurixipube.xml some backlog 16:21 * benrob0329 looks at comment 16:21 benrob0329 Oh, its notch 16:21 benrob0329 that's why 16:22 tenplus1 lol, mansplaining :P 16:27 benrob0329 Aka Notch gets upvotes because people go "ohmygosh its notcchhmineceft mustuovoye eaahh" 16:27 tenplus1 celebrity status 16:28 benrob0329 I mean, notch made one game that's well known 16:29 benrob0329 And suddenly he's more of a celebrity than most actors.. 16:29 tenplus1 mc is good, but not that good 16:30 benrob0329 I don't think even David Tennant could compete 16:30 tenplus1 I'd choose Tenant over Notch anyday 16:30 benrob0329 Same 16:31 red-004[IRC] well it looks like brexit finnaly happened 16:31 tenplus1 got there in the end :P 16:31 benrob0329 what's that? 16:32 tenplus1 britain(UK) leaving the EU (european union) 16:32 red-004[IRC] they finnaly invoked article 50 16:32 benrob0329 Ah, that thing 16:32 benrob0329 Feel any different? 16:33 tenplus1 nah, things going on as usual 16:33 red-004[IRC] you have to wait for about 2 years now for something to happen 16:33 benrob0329 sounds like every "big thing " 16:33 benrob0329 Its all this hype and then 16:33 benrob0329 Nothing happens 16:34 red-004[IRC] well it's not a short term thing 16:34 tenplus1 asshole companies are using brexit as an excuse to hike up prices of their products 16:34 * benrob0329 remebers 2013 well 16:35 benrob0329 *2012 16:35 red-004[IRC] what happened in 2012? 16:35 benrob0329 The world was supposed to end 16:35 tenplus1 lolol 16:35 benrob0329 Or at least that's what crazy people thought 16:35 red-004[IRC] that was pretty funny 16:36 benrob0329 And then it was actualy going to be *14 or somethin 16:36 benrob0329 '14 16:36 tenplus1 and 2000 was bad for padanoia as well, I had to fix all of the computers in the comany I worked at :) 16:37 benrob0329 Now we have to obvoid 2038 16:37 red-004[IRC] lets wait for 2038 now 16:37 benrob0329 Lets not wait 16:37 benrob0329 Lets just fix the issue 16:38 tenplus1 hopefully by that time most pc's will be using the 64-bit date formats 16:38 tenplus1 that'll do us for a few trillion years :D 16:39 benrob0329 If we're still using the unix timestamp at that point, that'd be incredible 16:39 tenplus1 think we'll still be using xorg ? or will we migrate to wayland/mir :PPPPPPPPehehe 16:40 benrob0329 I want a UTS watch though 16:40 red-004[IRC] and windows 10 16:41 red-004[IRC] or will mircosoft give up on their current idea 16:41 benrob0329 no, I rea 16:41 benrob0329 lly don't want windows 10 16:41 benrob0329 Dang mobile keyboards 16:41 tenplus1 google will prolly have their own Os by that time :D 16:41 benrob0329 ChromeOS 16:42 red-004[IRC] CarOS 16:42 red-004[IRC] android 16:42 benrob0329 BrainOS 16:42 benrob0329 aIOS 16:43 garywhite MS SucksOS 16:43 tenplus1 ehehe 16:44 benrob0329 Break the WindOS 16:52 tenplus1 wb nrz 16:53 nerzhul ty 17:02 Krock o/ tenplus1 17:02 Krock HA 17:03 tenplus1 hi Krock :) 17:03 tenplus1 was checking out "Ghost in the Shell" trailers :D 17:04 tenplus1 hi Grandolf 17:05 Grandolf hi tenplus1 17:05 Krock tenplus1, hehe. must do that aswell. it looks promising 17:06 tenplus1 1995 anime was amazing, and this does look great :) might just go to theatre for this one 17:08 nore ^ did someone here see it already? 17:08 tenplus1 hi nore :) 17:08 nore (I don't know when it is scheduled to be released, lol) 17:08 nore hi tenplus1 :) 17:08 tenplus1 am sure it's today ?! 17:08 nore oh, ok :) 17:09 nore then my question still holds :) 17:09 tenplus1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hu-sZ3ra2Os 17:09 * nore only saw the anime as well 17:11 nore tenplus1: I'm wondering, are you French? 17:11 * nore noticed tenplus1 writes spaces before question marks 17:11 tenplus1 scottish 17:13 nore hmmm 17:13 nore I thought it was only while writing french that we added spaces before question marks :D 17:14 benrob0329 10+1 I never would've guessed 17:15 tenplus1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZsG7WJVZv8 <--- +100 17:19 Krock can confirm that the 1995 anime was good. sadly the newer GitS: Arise episodes weren't too great 17:19 Krock hello twoelk 17:21 twoelk o/ 17:22 * twoelk is in office ircstealth mode 17:23 tenplus1 hi kaeza 17:23 kaeza o/ tenplus1 17:31 Fixer hi tenplus1 17:31 Fixer tenplus1: your stairs redo seems a bit outdated, does not have that efficient slabs placing and no place slab on slab to convert to full block 17:32 tenplus1 yeah, I kept rotation simple on purpose :D 17:33 tenplus1 and players decorate with slab on slab so i disabled full block conversion on purpose 17:33 tenplus1 when fine_pointing is implemented I'll redo it again 17:33 Fixer tenplus1: it sucks, i miss efficient slab placing, need to rotate every damn slab 17:33 tenplus1 lol 17:35 tenplus1 using base/side/top placement and using shift lets you place in a variety of angles already... 17:36 sofar fixer: did we ever merge that slab placement changes in mtg? 18:00 tenplus1 hi Shara 18:01 benrob0329 Moreblocks slabs should be default slabs if possible imo 18:01 tenplus1 ??? 18:02 benrob0329 they're not currently 18:03 tenplus1 which slabs ? moreblocks has a few 18:03 benrob0329 1/2 18:04 benrob0329 same for fulk stairs 18:04 sofar send a patch 18:04 benrob0329 *full 18:05 benrob0329 Doesnt moreblocks use looping to define each node? 18:06 tenplus1 yeah, the stairsplus mod that's included with it loops through all solid blocks and makes them into all kinds of stairs.... I dont like it :P 18:08 benrob0329 Perhaps an if statement could be added to check if node if from default, if so skip half slab and ful stair def 18:08 benrob0329 *full 18:12 tenplus1 nope, dont like it... so slow registering all the stairs :)) would rather have control over which nodes I make into stairs 18:15 Fixer sofar: same to same slab works nice, another PR for different slabs is not merget yet i think 18:16 sofar "so slow registering all the stairs" 18:16 sofar man, do you even performance? 18:16 sofar seriously, what, you've profiled it? 18:16 tenplus1 my humble net-top feels the lag and slowness of any mod :D 18:17 sofar if (performance_claim) then 18:17 Fixer sofar: he uses crap-crap-top 18:17 sofar get_hard_numbers_from_claimant() 18:17 sofar end 18:17 tenplus1 ehehe 18:17 sofar tenplus1: show me your performance numbers 18:17 sofar especially 18:17 sofar please, show me the numbers AFTER the startup has completed 18:17 tenplus1 put it this way, if I see "initializing nodes" during connect then there's an issue :P 18:18 sofar that's bullshit 18:18 sofar registration is already done when you see that 18:18 sofar "initializing nodes" is just the client receiving the node defs 18:18 sofar which means it's already done registering nodes 18:19 sofar which means you just made a nonsense performance claim 18:19 tenplus1 I watch it countiny up the percentage dude... 18:19 tenplus1 *counting 18:19 sofar I'm not attacking you, I'm attacking your nonsense claim 18:19 sofar when you see the percentage bar, you are seeing network packets with node definitions 18:19 sofar you're not seeing the nodes getting registered 18:19 benrob0329 here's sonething related to GitS https://youtu.be/hYViV3nFlDA 18:20 sofar registration of all those nodes is like, microseconds of time 18:20 benrob0329 I thought it wad an interesting video at least 18:20 tenplus1 then why does it make me wait while it counts up the % ? 18:20 tenplus1 to me that's slow 18:20 Fixer registrations are microseconds, i agree 18:20 sofar tenplus1: go ahead and print os.time before and after node registration lines 18:21 sofar tenplus1: go, do it, teach yourself something 18:21 nerzhul VanessaE, are you around ? 18:21 Fixer maybe media loading affects it more 18:21 tenplus1 could be fixer 18:21 nerzhul and/or tenplus1 18:21 sofar textures are loaded 18:21 sofar sounds 18:21 tenplus1 it's registering around 20 stair types for each node... 18:21 sofar and it needs to construct the client copy of the node defs 18:21 benrob0329 10+ Im pretty sure mobs redo is way worse on proformance than stairs+ 18:22 sofar benrob0329: performance claim detected, please provide data and method 18:22 benrob0329 *Performance 18:22 tenplus1 redo only registers slab;stair;corner;invcorner;slope 18:22 tenplus1 wb kaeza 18:22 benrob0329 No no no, I didn't make a performance claim 18:23 twoelk wouldn't it be usefull if a dev-server with connection to dev-irc existed that had public performance logs? 18:23 sofar 10+ Im pretty sure mobs redo is way worse on proformance than stairs+ 18:23 benrob0329 I made a porformance claim :P 18:23 sofar guilty 18:23 sofar well, it could have been about aestetics :) 18:26 nerzhul who have one of serverlist big server and is around, and have access to player files on disk please , 18:26 benrob0329 My data is called perceived lag, my method is called broken eyeballs 18:26 benrob0329 Plugins: glasses 18:31 tenplus1 stairsplus time: 1.3585 stairs redo time: 0.1459 18:31 red-004[IRC] how do I build a release version again? 18:31 * VanessaE wanders in 18:31 tenplus1 hi Vanessa 18:32 VanessaE hi 18:32 red-004[IRC] hi 18:32 nerzhul VanessaE, nice :) 18:32 nerzhul can you help me VanessaE ? 18:32 VanessaE possibly 18:33 twoelk carefull VanessaE, he's after your collected data :-P 18:33 nerzhul no :) 18:34 nerzhul VanessaE, can you duplicate a server world dir into a temp world dir 18:34 nerzhul a huge player files directory 18:34 VanessaE I have backups already :) 18:34 nerzhul and run a minetest master server + https://patch-diff.githubusercontent.com/raw/minetest/minetest/pull/5475.patch patch 18:34 VanessaE (my servers do that every night) 18:34 nerzhul nice, can you use one of your huge backups to test the migration processus please ? 18:35 VanessaE however, perhaps I should just send a zip of them to you, I'm not inclined to fiddle with my MT build 18:35 nerzhul i tested on some files, but on my server i'm using postgresql DB since 2 years and i havent them anymore :) 18:35 nerzhul VanessaE, if you want, send me in private 18:37 nerzhul just player files, i don't want auth 18:37 nerzhul i don't need map either :) 18:37 sofar tenplus1: just timed all of `default`'s initialization time (ALL node registrations, crafts, items) 18:37 sofar tenplus1: takes 0.016s 18:38 sofar tenplus1: do it yourself - edit init.lua and print os.clock() above and below all the dofile() lines 18:38 tenplus1 I did, and already posted the times above when registering nodes ^^^^ 18:38 tenplus1 stairsplus time: 1.3585 stairs redo time: 0.1459 18:38 Fixer homedecor:plasma_lamp 18:38 VanessaE nerzhul: the zip in /msg goes with https://daconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/worlds/Building_World.tar.gz if you need the actual world too. 18:38 benrob0329 Dangit, mobile irc is a pain 18:39 * benrob0329 watches latest cat5 episode 18:39 sofar tenplus1: 1sec startup time isn't going to make any client connect slower 18:39 nerzhul VanessaE, no i don't care about world being playable, i only want to have correct data in database :) 18:39 nerzhul with various freshness, it's the most important 18:39 sofar the only people who take the 1sec penalty is you when you restart the server 18:39 Fixer his players run minetest on Commodore 64 18:39 tenplus1 :PPP 18:39 sofar irrelevant 18:40 VanessaE hey now, don't knock the c64 18:40 sofar even on a c64 client, you would not EVER take the INIT penalty 18:40 sofar the client simply doesn't RUN that lua code 18:40 tenplus1 that was just default nodes tho... IF it had all nodes available on server it would take even longer 18:40 sofar the node registration is NOT done on the client, period 18:41 tenplus1 did I say it was ? 18:41 Jordach afternoon, sofar 18:41 sofar the time to connect to a server is related to the *amount* of nodes, not the *way they are registered in lua* 18:41 benrob0329 Hi Jordach 18:42 tenplus1 hi Jordach 18:42 sofar put it this way, if I see "initializing nodes" during connect then there's an issue :P 18:42 benrob0329 Then get gigabit internet :P 18:42 sofar no 18:42 sofar use less nodes on the server 18:43 sofar each node is a network packet I think 18:43 sofar so if you have 500 nodes defined, 500 packets 18:43 benrob0329 Oh, I had an idea the other day 18:43 VanessaE sofar: what, seriously? 18:43 benrob0329 what if nodes had states? 18:43 VanessaE O_o 18:43 benrob0329 Like, on or off 18:44 twoelk I'm not sure you are completely correct with the amount sofar, as that might be influenced by clever coding in Lua iirc 18:44 benrob0329 Or on fire 18:44 Fixer sofar: and 1 packet size is how much bytes? 18:44 benrob0329 ect rather than changing the node all the time 18:44 sofar depends on the size 18:44 sofar most minetest packets are 150-300 bytes 18:45 sofar benrob0329: then if you change the node state, all nodes on the map would change at the same time 18:45 benrob0329 Nit necessarily 18:45 sofar all nodes on the map share nodedef 18:45 benrob0329 If the state was per node it wouldn't 18:45 sofar (of the same type) 18:45 sofar there already is per-node state 18:45 sofar 1) param1/param2 18:46 sofar 2) node metadata 18:46 benrob0329 I mean being able to define extra states 18:46 benrob0329 Like, the client woukd display the node based on the state 18:46 sofar nodemeta 18:46 sofar meta set nodedef, actually 18:47 benrob0329 but without swapping the node 18:47 benrob0329 Like, if I wanted to have a lever 18:47 benrob0329 I would set up two states 18:47 sofar https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1118 18:47 benrob0329 One would display an on mesh, the other an off mesh 18:48 nerzhul nice 1 minute to migrate 5254 players from files to sqlite 18:48 sofar nerzhul: nice 18:48 benrob0329 But as to which mesh, that'd be decided by the client 18:48 sofar uh 18:48 sofar nerzhul: 1 minutes? 18:48 nerzhul i'm logging with one player file 18:48 sofar nerzhul: that's all player attributes and inventories? 18:48 nerzhul yes, maybe it's due to dumping all named on screen :p but i don't think 18:48 sofar benrob0329: that's what that PR would allow 18:49 nerzhul inventory is good, i don't have mod it's unk but it works :p 18:49 sofar change texture, change model, change visual 18:49 twoelk nerzhul: can I use 3rd party tools to view the data or is it all in zipped blobs? 18:49 sofar zip is open standard 18:49 sofar so, easily viewed in external programs 18:49 nerzhul it's not a zip it's a database 18:50 nerzhul all is relational, no serialization 18:50 benrob0329 sofar then I eagerly await it :-) 18:50 sofar yes but is it lz/zlib compressed? 18:50 nerzhul no 18:50 nerzhul why should i compress a field containing a number ? :p 18:50 twoelk ever tried to study the map-database? it's pretty much a pita 18:50 nerzhul it's a pure relational db 18:50 nerzhul it's not map database, for map it's normal to serialize 18:50 nerzhul mapblocks are blob data 18:50 nerzhul inventory and players are relational data 18:51 sofar nerzhul: agreed compression isn't that useful 18:51 nerzhul 54s sofar for this test on migration reducing screen output :) 18:51 nerzhul i have a SSD but everyfile is in my computer disk cache 18:51 sofar well, it's migration 18:51 sofar so one time problem 18:51 nerzhul ofc 18:51 sofar no use optimizing it much more 18:51 sofar 5000 per minute isn't that bad 18:51 nerzhul sofar, the main problem i have, how we communicate with players before merge ? 18:51 nerzhul no :) 18:52 sofar maybe print progress every 100 migrated? 18:53 nerzhul i print progress for each permitting to see failure with some points on screen, it'snot very important and the output is verbose i'ts important 18:53 nerzhul 44012 inventories 18:53 nerzhul 255308 items 18:53 sofar afk a bit 18:53 nerzhul and only 4 metadata VanessaE boo 18:53 nerzhul :p 18:53 nerzhul you don't use player metadata :p 18:53 * benrob0329 is watching cat5 18:54 twoelk so I could use for example this to edit entries https://www.etl-tools.com/database-browser/overview.html 18:54 benrob0329 "Please gives us 5 satures review if you feeling everything good" 18:54 VanessaE nerzhul: I do not use it in any of my mods, that I am aware of. 18:54 Fixer *,....,* 18:54 nerzhul on windows yes 18:55 nerzhul on unix i just use sqlite3 and lets go 18:55 Fixer twoelk: or this http://sqlitebrowser.org/ 18:55 nerzhul and for postgresql => pgadmin3 18:55 twoelk Fixer: yeah, got that one too ;-P 18:55 nerzhul i use psql myself, but pgadmin3 to edit your pg database is a professional tool used by hundred of postgresql users around world 18:56 nerzhul erf we don't have function to move files in core, i should have a portable function :p 18:57 nerzhul oh we have rename, it seems it's good 18:57 Jordach nerzhul, >mt engine doesn't have any useful file handling at all 18:57 Jordach nice game engine m8 18:58 * Jordach sips lipton 18:58 Jordach but that's none of my business 18:58 nerzhul Jordach, what do you mean by useful file handling ? the API ? 18:58 Fixer lipton pepe 18:58 Jordach nerzhul, i meant as part of core doing something for core 18:59 nerzhul the API is portable, but i think we should finish ShadowNinja part and rename fs:: namespace functions to stdc++17 norm for non c++17 builds :) 19:00 benrob0329 theres a cpp '17 standard? 19:03 tenplus1 I wonder how different it is from standard C 19:04 Krock ^ * C++ 19:05 nerzhul benrob0329, yes, there are many new interesting features, like filesystem api portability for example 19:05 nerzhul it's the last huge portability not covered by C++11 19:05 tenplus1 hi paramat 19:05 nerzhul C++11 has standard mutexes and threads, the only remaining part was filesystem access 19:06 nerzhul but there are other interesting features in C++17, but we should use C++11 at first in MT, it can improve a little bit core engine performance if we use constexpr correctly 19:06 nerzhul we already use unordered containers in MT and it imrpove ~15% performance on our map containers usage 19:06 tenplus1 nice 19:07 tenplus1 every little helps :D 19:07 Krock Krock quit: https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aBW6rYZ_700b.jpg 19:07 tenplus1 lolol 19:09 benrob0329 There was an issue on Urho3D that I saw one time, someone was saying that the patch needed non c++11 support as well 19:09 benrob0329 And I was like, why is c++11 still an issue? 19:09 benrob0329 Its 6 friggen years old 19:09 tenplus1 you would think all the issues would have been sorted by now 19:10 benrob0329 Its like, what are you using? GCC 3? 19:12 Fixer a.out format 19:14 benrob0329 a.out is the unix equivalent of a 16 bit dos executable 19:14 tenplus1 wb gary 19:14 garywhite thanks 19:17 red-004[IRC] requiring code to work with c++98 is like requiring support for windows xp 19:18 tenplus1 linux for example should have repo's compiled for the latest versions of the os and code 19:19 tenplus1 am still surprised to see software depending on python2 for example 19:20 benrob0329 like blender... 19:20 Fixer tenplus1: gimp still gtk2, gtk3 is ---- :trollface: nowhere to runq 19:21 * benrob0329 hates the fact that blender uses python2 19:21 tenplus1 python3 was released 2008 so you'd think software using 2.x would be updated 19:21 benrob0329 But hey, Tcl/Tk is the future! 19:21 benrob0329 Ya know? 19:21 tenplus1 whassat ? 19:22 Fixer tenplus1: nah 19:22 benrob0329 tenplus1: Exactly 19:22 Fixer tenplus1: 95% of popular packages already support Py3 19:22 tenplus1 good good, 5% to go... 19:24 Fixer tenplus1: http://py3readiness.org/ 19:27 tenplus1 mpv and samba are newer releases and you'd think they would be on 3 by now 19:27 tenplus1 hi nano 19:29 garywhite It takes time to write new versions of software. After all, it takes Microsoft 4-5 years to throw rubbish together for Windows 19:30 OldCoder But hey, Tcl/Tk is the future! 19:30 OldCoder Before Java, Tcl/Tk was a primary cross-platform GUI SDK 19:31 benrob0329 Its still around, but barely 19:31 OldCoder People, dozens of projects, had struggled to get their toolkits to the top 19:31 OldCoder Right 19:31 OldCoder Tcl/Tk, a bit simple and blocky (like MT) was arguably the most successful 19:31 OldCoder Tcl is an interesting language. But, no, the combination is no longer the future. 19:32 OldCoder http://oldcoder.org/general/beworld/browse-beworld.html 19:32 OldCoder ^ This is what Tcl looks like 19:32 tenplus1 what larger programs use tcl? 19:32 OldCoder That one 19:32 OldCoder It is the world's largest... 19:32 nerzhul benrob0329, you are inexact, C++11 is fully supported only since GCC 5.1 19:32 OldCoder single-script Tcl game (even excluding data) 19:32 OldCoder About 100 printed pages 19:32 nerzhul and clang 3.6 19:33 OldCoder tenplus1, wish to see *my* pre-MT mobs? :-) 19:33 tenplus1 okies 19:33 OldCoder http://oldcoder.org/general/beworld/beworld-main.jpg 19:33 OldCoder Behold the complexity and wonder of Tcl Mobs 19:33 OldCoder :P 19:33 tenplus1 ehehe cute 19:33 OldCoder The pig oinks, the car honks, and the cow moos! 19:33 OldCoder O_O 19:34 OldCoder Basically, the setup is Nethack and those are GUI Nethack characters 19:34 OldCoder In Tcl; excuse the remarks, but it isn't a bad language 19:34 tenplus1 kewl 19:34 benrob0329 OGL in Tcl?? 19:34 benrob0329 Dang 19:34 OldCoder All languages are good. Except C++ and, well, Whitespace and its friends. 19:35 benrob0329 I'm legitimately impressed 19:35 OldCoder Object Oriented Tcl actually 19:35 OldCoder Read the source before commenting 19:35 OldCoder Take nothing on faith 19:35 * OldCoder says this knowing the code is good 19:35 * tenplus1 pulls out Cobal 19:35 OldCoder http://oldcoder.org/general/beworld/beworld-caspak.jpg 19:35 * benrob0329 pulls out Pascal 19:35 OldCoder COBOL * 19:35 tenplus1 oopsie 19:35 tenplus1 pascal was good, I made my first gui lib on that one 19:36 OldCoder Pascal was a good learning language 19:36 OldCoder It was primarily Java that killed it 19:36 OldCoder If you had Java, which was Super Pascal Plus Classes, whither Pascal? 19:36 OldCoder Time to retire 19:37 benrob0329 Modern pascal is still a pretty cool toolchain 19:37 OldCoder I have a few programs that use it 19:37 benrob0329 With Lazarus n everything 19:37 tenplus1 Delphi :P 19:37 OldCoder Right 19:37 OldCoder There is a ZIP program based on Lazarus 19:37 OldCoder MT could have gone a different direction... C++ plus Lua is pretty good, but... 19:38 benrob0329 Its funny, java was the big thing not too long ago 19:38 OldCoder What if a MT domain language... 19:38 OldCoder Hm? benrob0329, it was considered the future 19:38 benrob0329 But now its just faiding away 19:38 OldCoder As in buy our Java books 19:38 OldCoder Or die 19:38 OldCoder Ruby had its moment, too 19:38 nerzhul VanessaE, i added core.remove_player call to remove them from database :) 19:38 OldCoder benrob0329, well Oracle has mishandled it 19:38 nerzhul and /remove_player call 19:38 tenplus1 good one nrz 19:38 nerzhul i just need to finish the call 19:38 paramat sofar new slab placement in mtg is waiting for engine #5485 (fine pointed) i agree having a slab auto-rotate to vertical when placed against a wall is bad, usually it is wanted horizontal, so the new slab code is good 19:38 benrob0329 Slowly dying, very slowly 19:39 nerzhul to look if player is connected (it's not very important atm) and handle the exit code 19:39 VanessaE nerzhul: that's a start. 19:39 OldCoder benrob0329, this is probably off-topic if others are discussing MT. But, I'll say that Java has quite an ecosystem. 19:40 paramat hi tenplus1 could you describe what you mean with 'can't sneak across a ledge' here https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5438 so we can try to fix it? 19:40 benrob0329 But for all that ecosystem it isn't doing very well atm, but maybe thays just cause I'm out of the java dev loop 19:41 benrob0329 As far as widely used apps on the desktop 19:41 paramat there was a fix for sneaking on slabs last night 19:42 paramat tenplus1 have you opened an issue about mob staticdata? 19:42 tenplus1 I rewrote those fucntons, is ok... using 0.4.15 dev stuff 19:43 tenplus1 before with sneak you could walk across a ledge, a gap in a wall, but with sneak changes you cant anymore 19:43 benrob0329 Ninja sneak is dank sneak 19:43 paramat please describe or screenshot 'gap in a wall' 19:44 paramat so there is no mob staticdata bug in MT? it was your own code that was buggy? 19:44 * twoelk wonders wether npc dat could be stuffed into an external database to have persistant npcs with a history and memory 19:45 paramat do you mean this? "you can't sneak walk from one node to another it the space is only one node high" 19:46 tenplus1 mob staticdata worked on 0.4.15 stable then all of a sudden it didnt on latest devs... I rewrote functions and it started working again 19:46 paramat ok please can you help us fix official MT by opening an issue? 19:47 paramat maybe just a link to your own code? 19:47 * sofar peeks back in (missing backlog) 19:47 benrob0329 We had a talk about old progamming languages, amd sneal features came up again 19:47 benrob0329 *sneak 19:49 paramat tenplus1 the functions you rewrote, were they in your mods or part of MT? 19:50 paramat we need to know if there is a bug in MT 19:51 Fixer fps drop bug reproduced, good-good 19:51 tenplus1 if I come across it again I'll post an issue 19:51 Fixer 7a4878 19:53 Fixer interesting 19:53 paramat so there is no bug in MT? which functions did you rewrite? 19:54 paramat tenplus1 please be clear and answer the questions 19:56 tenplus1 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5438 pic added 19:56 paramat thanks for the comment 19:56 nerzhul okay player to database now only required one remaining point, migrate from sqlite to pg and invert 19:56 nerzhul that's nice 19:57 nerzhul and some communication before merge i think 19:59 OldCoder Communication is good 20:00 Fixer nerzhul: finally database, no more thousands of player files, some popular servers had like 20 000 accounts, and that was damn slow to backup 20:00 Fixer some people will dislike yet again 20:01 Fixer 2baa191 time 20:01 paramat tenplus1 does current official MT have a bug with mob staticdata? 20:01 nerzhul Yeah, i backported my fork changes which are in production sice a long time :p 20:02 Fixer nerzhul: there is one more thing that annoys me, it is debatable, but /cache folder with thousands of files 20:03 Fixer my cache has 33578 files, size 254 629 kbytes 20:04 benrob0329 it'd be cool if mods could kick a server to anothet server 20:04 benrob0329 *kick a player 20:04 paramat good grief =/ 20:05 paramat he makes a huge fuss about a bug then dodges any questions about it 20:05 nerzhul Fixer, the cache contain a sha1 of each file downloaded before 20:05 nerzhul it's not very optimized yes 20:06 Fixer nerzhul: yep, it is just pain in the ass to move or copy since moving 30 000 takes ages %) 20:06 Fixer if it is one 250 mb file - copy/move is like 3 seconds, if 30 000 small files - 3 minutes %) 20:06 Fixer but thats ok 20:06 Fixer people rarely move it 20:07 nerzhul just drop your cache :p 20:08 twoelk I often move the cache when I update mt, just as fovorite-server file and other data 20:08 twoelk helps a lot on slow internet 20:15 benrob0329 Anyone have any ideas for keeping some files synced between desktop and laptop? 20:15 benrob0329 Both would be running Linux 20:27 sofar rsync or git 20:29 sofar there's plenty other alternatives, of course 20:30 nerzhul nextcloud client ? 20:34 benrob0329 I want to sync things like my .minetest folder 20:34 benrob0329 but rsync would probably work 20:34 RobbieF i gotz a better suggestion 20:35 RobbieF (not that I'm a linux guru or anything) 20:35 paramat ~tell tenplus1 ok i assume there is no mob staticdata bug in MT. when you wrote 'i rewrote functions' i needed to check whether you were rewriting parts of builtin or a subgame, in which case work would be needed in MT or MTG 20:35 ShadowBot paramat: O.K. 20:35 benrob0329 Hi RobbieF!) 20:35 RobbieF Hi :) 20:35 RobbieF This is the answer: https://www.cis.upenn.edu/~bcpierce/unison/ 20:38 benrob0329 "Sasha what are you up to?" 'I'm fidgeting!' 20:38 benrob0329 Me: XD 20:40 * benrob0329 bookmarks that link 20:42 OldCoder Anyone have any ideas for keeping some files synced between desktop and laptop? 20:42 OldCoder Not familiar with unison. Some admins and developers just use rsync. 20:43 OldCoder Hm, moment 20:43 OldCoder https://github.com/OldCoder/rsyncit 20:43 OldCoder benrob0329, ^ that is a useful rsync wrapper 20:44 OldCoder In Perl, the language of the Gods :-) 20:44 benrob0329 XD 20:44 OldCoder https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/lisp.jpg 20:45 red-004[IRC] the alt text is great 20:45 benrob0329 Oh so that's how it only took God 6 days 20:45 benrob0329 He just hacked together a dirty perl script 20:48 OldCoder Yep 20:49 Shara Hello all 20:53 OldCoder o/ 20:55 Fixer hi 20:56 benrob0329 I kinda want to hop on an anarky server and just lag it the heck out with a mesecons clock XD 21:00 Shara Hi OldCoder, hi Fixer 21:01 OldCoder Shara, moin 21:36 Fixer current mood: 281. 猫 シ Corp. - SECRETS OF MY AGE [with ローマンRoman] [3:07] 22:28 Fixer reproduced the bug again :( 22:30 Fixer 2baa191 23:08 octacian I keep getting an error that says "table index is nil" 23:11 octacian I have local meta_contexts = {} then I try to set meta_contexts[name] to something, and I get the above error 23:12 behalebabo what's name? 23:12 behalebabo that'll be the nil value 23:12 octacian You think? 23:12 octacian I'll take a look. It's supposed to be the player name. 23:12 behalebabo it's the only thing you're indexing there, unless the right-hand of the = also indexes 23:13 octacian it was nil >_< 23:13 octacian Didn't realize it as the issue actually goes quite a ways back in my code 23:18 OldCoder It's often advisable to each pieces for nil as an expression is constructed 23:18 OldCoder Either returning or logging an error message as soon as nil is detected