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IRC log for #minetest-project, 2017-03-30

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Time Nick Message
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03:39 benrob0329 That is the cat5tv chanel?
03:45 benrob0329 *what
03:46 paramat oh heh
03:46 paramat https://www.youtube.com/channel/​UCIcUvKUXCySOjSFCFgZ3otQ/videos
03:47 benrob0329 I mean irc chaanel
03:47 benrob0329 *Chanel
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04:45 OldCoder
04:45 OldCoder http://minetest.org/mtcompile.txt
04:46 OldCoder This is a build script created just now for TommyTreasure ^
04:46 OldCoder
04:46 OldCoder This version is untested but should work with minor tweaks. It is the one, largely, that I use.
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08:06 tenplus1 hi folks
08:06 VanessaE hi
08:06 tenplus1 hi VanessaE
08:17 nrzkt hi
08:17 tenplus1 hi nrz
08:18 nrzkt tenplus1, VanessaE: i think i will need you later today (GMT timezone)
08:18 tenplus1 whassup dude ?
08:18 VanessaE ?
08:18 VanessaE what's up?
08:18 VanessaE (or what will be)
08:20 nrzkt i'm finishing the work on https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/5475 i will ask you to give me some player files with criterias on your live servers
08:20 nrzkt not all, but an extract of very old and recent files to test my migration processus
08:21 tenplus1 will check in a bit to see what it's all about :P
08:21 nrzkt i finished the work on player saving/loading from/to database, now i'm working on automatic migration of player files
08:21 VanessaE nrzkt: wait, so the plan is to ditch worlds/<foo>/players/<bar, baz, blah, ...>  ?
08:22 nrzkt exactly
08:22 VanessaE :(
08:22 tenplus1 willi tbe contained in the map or one huge file ?
08:22 VanessaE that's gonna be a big problem for server admins unless you provide a good tool to read/edit a player's record.
08:22 nrzkt many coredevs (including me) wants to change this non reliable behaviour
08:23 nrzkt VanessaE: in fact as it uses relational DB (sql only) it's easy to edit :)
08:23 VanessaE easy if you know databases.
08:23 VanessaE most of us don't :P
08:24 nrzkt tenplus1: player are in a dedicated database in sqlite3, in postgres it depend on which connection chain you set. You can use same as map, but i invite you to have a separated database
08:24 tenplus1 if database becomes corrupt then ALL player files are a risk ?
08:25 nrzkt for server owners needing performance i suggest to use postgresql backend, i will add a notice about the migration, because by default you will migrate to sqlite
08:25 nrzkt database never corrupts if you never do shit yourself with filesystem :)
08:26 tenplus1 just chceking :P
08:26 VanessaE nrzkt: and mapblocks never get corrupted either ;)
08:26 nrzkt VanessaE: yeah, it was my second argument: is your map corrupt ? map is heavy, please files is very tiny
08:26 nrzkt VanessaE: also using database will permit server owners to plug a website over it for dynamic things
08:27 nrzkt imagine a website connecting to your postgres and showing your inventory ? :)
08:27 nrzkt also, i just migrate the player files, not the account file, this will be done in another PR
08:27 VanessaE my point (and tenplus1's) I think is that if something gets trashed in the player database, minetest needs to handle it sanely
08:27 nrzkt there is not player removal from core engine, if you remove it yourself you should know what you are doing
08:28 nrzkt for sqlite backend, just copy the sqlite file
08:28 nrzkt for a backup, like your map
08:28 nrzkt for pg: pg_dump <database> > database.sql
08:30 nrzkt i will document th process heavily because it's an important change for server owners (less important for local games)
08:30 VanessaE well let's just suppose this player database gets damaged (nevermind how).  suppose the corruption only exists in two players' records, such that they're broken, unreadable, whatever.  what will MT do?
08:30 nrzkt it's impossible to have records broken in a database
08:30 tenplus1 hypothetically, what IF it happens?
08:30 VanessaE don't split hairs.
08:30 nrzkt restore your backup, like every system
08:31 VanessaE what happens if two players' inventories are corrupted and the admin can't spot it right away?
08:31 VanessaE what will MT do when it loads the database?
08:31 nrzkt also, just for a note, i have heavy write postgresql databases at work (> 1To disk space) and no corruption happens, never
08:32 VanessaE you're still avoiding the question... :)
08:32 nrzkt MT load the data in database, if db is corrupted, either MT do'nt start because sqlite3 drive rsee it, or postgresql server doesn't start because it's corrupted
08:33 nrzkt and, honestly, if a relational DB is corrupted, it's because your underlayer disk is corrupted, then damages are very important and you should have done backups, it's not possible to not do backups, it's your responsiblity
08:33 VanessaE ok, so one broken player record, the whole database is trashed and MT can't load it.
08:33 nrzkt no
08:33 nrzkt you misunderstand
08:34 nrzkt i said, a record cannot be broken by MT, it can only be broken because your server is dying
08:34 VanessaE or because some write process crashed.
08:34 nrzkt database are more intelligent than MT coredevs
08:35 tenplus1 currently having all player files seperately means easier fixing by deleting the broken player files, the new all-in-one database would need to be updated on a daily basis just incase so it's available for recovery, sometimes more than once in a day for all new players
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08:35 nrzkt write process crash on MT means you have a bug in your sqlite driver
08:35 tenplus1 hi ben
08:35 nrzkt for postgresql a database crash only mean the last change is lost and you use the previous record version
08:35 VanessaE if a world's map.sqlite can on occasion return corrupt mapblocks through no fault of the hardware or sqlite3, then so can a player database.
08:35 VanessaE that's all I'm saying.
08:36 VanessaE in the case of a map.sqlite, you can at least configure MT to ignore errors (though I forget what it actually does - empty mapblock?).  the same should be true of the player database.
08:36 nrzkt for DB corruption i want to say, just use a strong database, use postgresql, sqlite3 is lightweight but has some cons, if you don't enable sqlite WAL you are dead i ncase of recent corruption
08:37 VanessaE WAL?
08:37 nrzkt write ahead logs, it's the write logging for the database, containing the differential changes before including them to the real database storage
08:37 nrzkt it permits a point in time recovery if there is a problem with last logs
08:38 VanessaE sounds like a journaled file system.
08:38 nrzkt yeah it's like this
08:38 VanessaE ok.
08:38 VanessaE all of this aside, the need for tools to read/edit a player's record will be needed.
08:39 nrzkt for postgresql, you have WAL too, but it's not needed because your postgresql storage pool grow in time and postgresql wil lhave dead rows corresponding to last rows version and will recycle them when they are long time dead
08:39 tenplus1 having admin commands in-game would be handy for removing player files completely
08:39 VanessaE (even if it consists of a few chatcommands like "/player delete <foo> inv_slot 4" or "/player whereis <foo>" or something
08:39 VanessaE )
08:40 nrzkt an inventory slot cannot be deleted, it can only be empty
08:40 VanessaE well I will most definitely not mess with postgres.
08:40 VanessaE nrzkt: s/delete/clear/
08:40 tenplus1 yeah...  we have /whereis  /reset_homepos and /reset_bedpos to help
08:40 VanessaE I don't of course mean to remove the slot but merely to empty it
08:41 nrzkt homepos is not in minetest core engine
08:41 VanessaE anything you can do with a text editor on a player file now, you need to be able to do from within Minetest.
08:41 nrzkt it can be interesting but not easy to do within minetest, in SQL it's easier because you do requests directly on data and have the view you need
08:42 nrzkt select * from player where name='VanessaE'
08:42 VanessaE why not easy?
08:42 nrzkt it's not difficult
08:42 tenplus1 this would make for a good mod
08:42 nrzkt because we will need very huge amout of code for single SQL operations, SQL is a standard language permitting to query easily
08:42 VanessaE does not Minetest know that player <foo> has item <bar> in slot 2, and was last at coords x,y,z, and had a,b,c,d, and e, in their crafting grid?
08:43 nrzkt it only nows that if player is loaded, but never if player is not connected
08:43 nrzkt knows*
08:43 VanessaE then it needs to load the player's record from the database when requested.
08:43 nrzkt it doesn't do this at this moment for player files
08:43 VanessaE I know
08:44 VanessaE but it doesn't NEED to either
08:44 VanessaE but if you convert the player files into one big monolithic database, then you're gonna need to make it easy for admins to manage its content without resorting to sql commands.
08:44 nrzkt i will not do this for this PR, it needs to be discussed with other devs, not only you to define a roadmap about edition, i tend to prefer an external tool
08:44 nrzkt delete from player where name = 'VanessaE';
08:45 nrzkt bye bye all VanessaE data :)
08:45 VanessaE that means chatcommands in Minetest, simple stuff like above.
08:45 VanessaE nrzkt: my experience with other servers' admins is that you can't expect them to remember that
08:45 VanessaE let alone more complex queries to change a record.
08:45 nrzkt remember one thing, if we add an interface to a deletion command, a mod can delete all your players
08:45 tenplus1 not if it requires SERVER priv
08:45 tenplus1 which it should
08:46 VanessaE a mod doesn't need privs
08:46 nrzkt tenplus1: but if i have a rogue mod i installed which hide this call ?
08:46 VanessaE he makes a good point, but to be fair, the same is true if mod security is disabled now
08:46 VanessaE a mod would execute a 'rm' command and delete a player file
08:46 nrzkt yes, but mod security will not prevent a database call :)
08:47 nrzkt but yes i can add at first a lua call to remove a disconnected player
08:47 nrzkt it's the minimum
08:47 VanessaE well that's the responsibility of a server admin to at least know if a mod they install is dangerous.
08:47 nrzkt VanessaE: yes ofc
08:47 tenplus1 exactly
08:48 nrzkt i think our future mod store should look at lua calls to shows the mod perms
08:49 nrzkt okay i include a point in this PR for adding a lua call to remove players
08:49 VanessaE and anyway, who says you have to open up raw database calls to Lua anyway?
08:49 OldCoder So saith the Lord
08:49 VanessaE I'm talking simple chat commands (or equivalent).
08:49 tenplus1 lol
08:49 nrzkt VanessaE: do we have builtin commands ?
08:50 nrzkt or are all commands in mods ?
08:50 VanessaE nrzkt: I don't know for sure.  some I think
08:50 tenplus1 for this particular playerfile change the commands should be hidden away in core
08:50 VanessaE but we have little or nothing that deals with player records, but again, we don't need them yet.  if players are in a database, we will need these things.
08:51 nrzkt tenplus1: i can only set them in builtin to respect our model :)
08:51 VanessaE and again, I am not suggesting Lua API calls either.  just chat commands.
08:52 VanessaE just simple stuff to dump a player's record, change something in it (like if they got their hands on an admin pick, I should be able to remove it), etc.
08:53 VanessaE it doesn't have to be elaborate.  it just has to replace the common reasons one might choose to edit a player file as they exist right now.
08:53 tenplus1 +1
08:54 nrzkt dump a player record has no real sense o nyour screen
08:54 VanessaE doesn't it?
08:54 VanessaE I don't mean to dump the raw data
08:54 VanessaE I mean just show me what I might see were this player's record still stored in a flat file.
08:55 nrzkt i should look at coreside C++ commands but i don't think we have them, and i don't know if we have pure builtin possible calls, i don't think
08:56 nrzkt okay a json styled representation can have some sense
08:57 VanessaE not even that much.  just some basic representation that looks like it could be a Lua table.
08:57 VanessaE keep it simple.
08:57 nrzkt it's similar output xD
08:58 VanessaE ok
08:59 VanessaE "player model"?
08:59 VanessaE maybe you meant "player record" :P
08:59 nrzkt the player representation
09:00 nrzkt not player record is not the good term, as in database you have many records for a single player
09:00 nrzkt (1 entry for player, 1 entry for each player inventory, 1 entry for each item in inventories, 1 entry for each player extra attribute)
09:00 VanessaE don't call it a model, might be too easy to confuse with "the player model" as in the thing you see walking around in-game :)
09:00 nrzkt also SQL permits to do nice things
09:01 nrzkt imagine you want to kill all your players
09:01 nrzkt UPDATE players set health = 0;
09:01 nrzkt it only kills non connected players :p
09:01 VanessaE back in the old days, a "record" was a collection of entries related to one thing.
09:01 VanessaE a "player record" in that context would mean exactly what you described
09:06 OldCoder In the old days, a "record" rotated at 45 rpm
09:06 VanessaE anyway, some of us still think in terms of flat files :)
09:06 VanessaE OldCoder: if that's the old days, you'
09:06 VanessaE you're younger than you seem :P
09:07 tenplus1 dunno how many corrupt player files I've deleted to fix an issue
09:07 OldCoder VanessaE, I am old enough to be nearly your father. tenplus1, I have a test to delete them on start if corrupted.
09:07 OldCoder Saves a lot of trouble
09:07 VanessaE ...
09:07 * OldCoder did have 78s
09:07 OldCoder 78s were cool
09:07 VanessaE man, why do you always have to spoil the joke?
09:08 * OldCoder wants his 78s back
09:08 OldCoder Because I'm literal
09:08 OldCoder It is what it is
09:08 VanessaE well stop it.
09:08 * OldCoder can't stop what he is
09:08 OldCoder tenplus1, files do get corrupted
09:08 OldCoder It's a weak spot
09:08 * OldCoder had Robin Williams on LP. Probably 33 1/3.
09:09 * OldCoder thinks there should be a MT _game that resembles Atari 2600. Good fit.
09:09 * OldCoder will add some 78s to his jukebox/radio mod
09:11 VanessaE guess I'll have to rewrite my "clear abandoned noob accounts" script.
09:16 nrzkt tenplus1: corrupted files are due to minetest process itself being very rude and raw, a database is hopefully more secure :p
09:16 tenplus1 the whole auth.txt is messy
09:17 tenplus1 and playerfiles in the folder gather and mess with hdd/sdd
09:18 VanessaE I understand the reasoning behind moving player data into a single database file, don't get me wrong.
09:18 nrzkt tenplus1: when the players will be in database i will work after on auth in database but it's more complicated due to the lua interface
09:18 VanessaE I'm just concerned about being able to manipulate it without resorting to sqlite queries that I'll never be able to remember.
09:18 nrzkt auth database has another pro: you will share your accounts across your servers :)
09:18 VanessaE sure, if you use postgres or redis or something
09:19 nrzkt only postgresql & sqlite will be supported for this, redis is a caching system, it has no security, no transactions
09:19 VanessaE (sqlite doesn't like to let two processes access one db file)
09:19 nrzkt VanessaE: right
09:19 nrzkt for sharing you will need postgresql, sqlite is for mono server
09:24 VanessaE I...think I'll just let each server have its own databases, like it is now
09:24 VanessaE this is already getting too complicated for me.
09:25 tenplus1 yup
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09:28 * tenplus1 tests latest Midori browser
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09:59 tenplus1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_Wvlgop-bo lol
10:28 tenplus1 may I ask a favour of everyone, could you maybe watch and if you like thumbs up this youtube video so it can get 150 likes and Xanadu will appear in the next one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaSYynSxAuY
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11:54 lordfingle yo
11:55 tenplus1 hi fingle
11:56 lordfingle I'm about to upgrade to your latest npc. Thought I'd login to chat for fun before I did so. :)
11:57 lordfingle I like playerplus, but I think it probably needs to "remember" the last few nod_stand, nod_foot etc for my walkover event.  That way my timer can be lazier
11:57 lordfingle Hope that makes sense.
11:57 lordfingle I'm trying to reduce the about of rapid globalsteps
11:58 tenplus1 I hear you... playerplus checks every 1 seconds and updates global vars
12:00 lordfingle yup. mobs_redo does as well.  This stresses me out a bit, 'cos if there's too many mods around things start to get very slow
12:01 tenplus1 the whole reason we need the engine to handle step checks for players (to reduce getnode's)
12:02 lordfingle It would be nice for mobs to have their own thread
12:03 tenplus1 if only :P
12:03 lordfingle Have you experimented with coroutines at all?
12:04 tenplus1 coroutines ????
12:04 lordfingle https://www.lua.org/pil/9.1.html
12:04 lordfingle I saw a thread somewhere where some minetest.* calls work with them and some dont
12:05 lordfingle https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1709
12:05 lordfingle If everything was magical and wonderful, your docustom could be a coroutine
12:06 tenplus1 looks interesting
12:07 lordfingle It seems too good to be true, but might be worth investigating IDK
12:08 tenplus1 would be nice to have a way to handle threads in mt... have mods/game run a little smoother
12:09 lordfingle igor the npc....interesting
12:09 tenplus1 heheh, made that one for halloween, has 8 different skind
12:09 tenplus1 *skins
12:09 tenplus1 many players made a castle and wanted an igor for down below to protect it
12:10 lordfingle of course, no castle is complete without an Igor
12:10 tenplus1 and if you right click with gold ingot he drops different items than npc
12:12 lordfingle I've just realised that although I do have your npc mod, it has been the "peaceful npcs" (jojoa1997) mod that has been populating my world.  Perhaps I'll switch it's engine over to mobs redo....
12:12 lordfingle https://github.com/jojoa1997/peaceful_npc
12:13 lordfingle Looks like these dudes open doors.  Do you open doors?
12:14 tenplus1 nope
12:15 tenplus1 I coudl add that tothe new pathfinding level2 functions
12:15 tenplus1 can already break walls and build up to get to player
12:15 lordfingle the code looks very simple (eg https://github.com/jojoa1997/peacef​ul_npc/blob/master/npc/npc_def.lua) if you're interested
12:15 Calinou hi
12:16 tenplus1 alreadythere :PPP
12:16 tenplus1 hi cal
12:16 lordfingle hi!
12:16 lordfingle theres some nice models and textures there too
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12:16 tenplus1 I only have 2 npc textures (male/female), 8 igor textures and 3 trader textures...
12:17 tenplus1 hi lumidify
12:17 lumidify Hi tenplus1
12:18 lordfingle people have found peaceful npcs fun to look at, but they're pretty dumb
12:18 lordfingle maybe it's time to merge ;)
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12:18 tenplus1 redo npc's wander around aimlessly, kill monsters nearby, follow players if owned and attack players who mess with them :D
12:19 Calinou https://lut.im/Z9QuoLt4WY/PP6od59RPnhOaNIT.png
12:19 lordfingle peaceful npcs are much the same but I havent seen them attack a player.  It would be nice if they did
12:19 Calinou I heard one of them will even talk to you about sneak glitches
12:19 lordfingle lol
12:20 tenplus1 which dont exist now... pah!
12:20 lordfingle I don't think they know about beloved glitches
12:20 lordfingle It's time we moved to implementing MT developers as NPCs
12:21 tenplus1 latest daily build has errors in carts
12:21 tenplus1 cart_entity.lua:96 unexpected symbol near 'and'
12:21 tenplus1 ?????????????
12:21 lordfingle afk
12:22 behalebabo a fix has been pushed, in 5fe831ed139d882b2838cbd75caa1f5a4d9674ad
12:22 Jordach Calinou, christ that was dank
12:22 Calinou dank, danker, dankest
12:22 tenplus1 o.O no way!!!!!!  I just checked, I cant sneak along ledges anymore..... dammit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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12:23 tenplus1 hi robbie
12:23 tenplus1 some of the best mt parkour had ledges to sneak across....
12:25 behalebabo tenplus1: are you testing with the sneak glitch enabled?
12:26 behalebabo hmm, should be on by default still anyway
12:27 tenplus1 default world with no mods running
12:27 tenplus1 shoudl be enabled
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12:30 tenplus1 hi ben
12:38 * Jordach feels like nerfing food but in a good way
12:39 tenplus1 lol
12:39 Jordach food can still stack
12:39 Jordach but foods that require cutlery and such will leave dirty equivilents that need to be cleaned before they can be used again
12:40 Jordach these dirty items don't stack at all
12:41 Jordach their craftable state stacks
12:46 RobbieF benrob0329 - thanks for the note!! Updating now.
12:46 RobbieF TPS-Scifi is now up to date.
12:46 tenplus1 turns out pathfinding level2 mobs/npc's dont need to open doors, they simple break them down :P
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12:47 Jordach tenplus1, ayy lmao
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14:08 benrob0329 Hello
14:08 benrob0329 (I leave my phone connected tobi
14:09 benrob0329 *to irc)
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14:50 benrob0329 https://vid.me/ffD3
14:54 nerzhul in lua can we do continue keyword ?
14:54 Fixer joined #minetest-project
14:56 benrob0329 I believe so
15:10 Fixer hi
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15:25 Fixer no tidyman when you need it
15:40 Calinou https://www.reddit.com/user/xNotch
15:40 Calinou so many awards
15:42 troller joined #minetest-project
15:45 Fixer Calinou: such much awards
15:48 Calinou also, he basically gets lifetime free reddit gold
15:48 Calinou as if he wasn't rich enough :(
15:50 Calinou :O
15:50 Calinou if you have tons of points on a single comment, it shows in "k" units
15:50 Calinou https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/​4p5p22/whats_up_with_notch_on_twitter/d4io9q9/
15:50 Calinou 17.2k points
15:50 Calinou that's the first time I've seen this
15:51 Calinou (also, wow, he basically got 6.67 times my lifetime comment karma acquired in 5.5 years, in a single comment)
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16:07 tenplus1 hi folks
16:09 twoelk o/
16:19 benrob0329 Calinou: great words will go a long ways.
16:19 Calinou benrob0329: well, sometimes he says stuff like "wat" and gets 9 points
16:19 Calinou I can't get away with that :)
16:19 tenplus1 lol
16:20 Calinou hi tenplus1 :)
16:20 tenplus1 hi al
16:20 tenplus1 er... hi Cal :P
16:20 * tenplus1 thinks he needs a new keyboard soon
16:20 Calinou tenplus1: https://hastebin.com/hurixipube.xml some backlog
16:21 * benrob0329 looks at comment
16:21 benrob0329 Oh, its notch
16:21 benrob0329 that's why
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16:22 tenplus1 lol, mansplaining :P
16:27 benrob0329 Aka Notch gets upvotes because people go "ohmygosh its notcchhmineceft mustuovoye eaahh"
16:27 tenplus1 celebrity status
16:28 benrob0329 I mean, notch made one game that's well known
16:29 benrob0329 And suddenly he's more of a celebrity than most actors..
16:29 tenplus1 mc is good, but not that good
16:30 benrob0329 I don't think even David Tennant could compete
16:30 tenplus1 I'd choose Tenant over Notch anyday
16:30 benrob0329 Same
16:31 red-004[IRC] well it looks like brexit finnaly happened
16:31 tenplus1 got there in the end :P
16:31 benrob0329 what's that?
16:32 tenplus1 britain(UK) leaving the EU (european union)
16:32 red-004[IRC] they finnaly invoked article 50
16:32 benrob0329 Ah, that thing
16:32 benrob0329 Feel any different?
16:33 tenplus1 nah, things going on as usual
16:33 red-004[IRC] you have to wait for about 2 years now for something to happen
16:33 benrob0329 sounds like every "big thing "
16:33 benrob0329 Its all this hype and then
16:33 benrob0329 Nothing happens
16:34 red-004[IRC] well it's not a short term thing
16:34 tenplus1 asshole companies are using brexit as an excuse to hike up prices of their products
16:34 * benrob0329 remebers 2013 well
16:35 benrob0329 *2012
16:35 red-004[IRC] what happened in 2012?
16:35 benrob0329 The world was supposed to end
16:35 tenplus1 lolol
16:35 benrob0329 Or at least that's what crazy people thought
16:35 red-004[IRC] that was pretty funny
16:36 benrob0329 And then it was actualy going to be *14 or somethin
16:36 benrob0329 '14
16:36 tenplus1 and 2000 was bad for padanoia as well, I had to fix all of the computers in the comany I worked at :)
16:37 benrob0329 Now we have to obvoid 2038
16:37 red-004[IRC] lets wait for 2038 now
16:37 benrob0329 Lets not wait
16:37 benrob0329 Lets just fix the issue
16:38 tenplus1 hopefully by that time most pc's will be using the 64-bit date formats
16:38 tenplus1 that'll do us for a few trillion years :D
16:39 benrob0329 If we're still using the unix timestamp at that point, that'd be incredible
16:39 tenplus1 think we'll still be using xorg ? or will we migrate to wayland/mir :PPPPPPPPehehe
16:40 benrob0329 I want a UTS watch though
16:40 red-004[IRC] and windows 10
16:41 red-004[IRC] or will mircosoft give up on their current idea
16:41 benrob0329 no, I rea
16:41 benrob0329 lly don't want windows 10
16:41 benrob0329 Dang mobile keyboards
16:41 tenplus1 google will prolly have their own Os by that time :D
16:41 benrob0329 ChromeOS
16:42 red-004[IRC] CarOS
16:42 red-004[IRC] android
16:42 benrob0329 BrainOS
16:42 benrob0329 aIOS
16:43 garywhite MS SucksOS
16:43 tenplus1 ehehe
16:44 benrob0329 Break the WindOS
16:52 nerzhul joined #minetest-project
16:52 tenplus1 wb nrz
16:53 nerzhul ty
17:01 twoelk|2 joined #minetest-project
17:02 Krock joined #minetest-project
17:02 Krock joined #minetest-project
17:02 Krock o/ tenplus1
17:02 Krock HA
17:03 tenplus1 hi Krock :)
17:03 Grandolf joined #minetest-project
17:03 tenplus1 was checking out "Ghost in the Shell" trailers :D
17:04 tenplus1 hi Grandolf
17:05 Grandolf hi tenplus1
17:05 Krock tenplus1, hehe. must do that aswell. it looks promising
17:06 tenplus1 1995 anime was amazing, and this does look great :)  might just go to theatre for this one
17:08 nore ^ did someone here see it already?
17:08 tenplus1 hi nore :)
17:08 nore (I don't know when it is scheduled to be released, lol)
17:08 nore hi tenplus1 :)
17:08 tenplus1 am sure it's today ?!
17:08 nore oh, ok :)
17:09 nore then my question still holds :)
17:09 tenplus1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hu-sZ3ra2Os
17:09 * nore only saw the anime as well
17:11 nore tenplus1: I'm wondering, are you French?
17:11 * nore noticed tenplus1 writes spaces before question marks
17:11 tenplus1 scottish
17:13 nore hmmm
17:13 nore I thought it was only while writing french that we added spaces before question marks :D
17:14 benrob0329 10+1 I never would've guessed
17:15 tenplus1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZsG7WJVZv8 <--- +100
17:19 Krock can confirm that the 1995 anime was good. sadly the newer GitS: Arise episodes weren't too great
17:19 Krock hello twoelk
17:21 twoelk o/
17:22 kaeza joined #minetest-project
17:22 * twoelk is in office ircstealth mode
17:23 tenplus1 hi kaeza
17:23 kaeza o/ tenplus1
17:31 Fixer hi tenplus1
17:31 Fixer tenplus1: your stairs redo seems a bit outdated, does not have that efficient slabs placing and no place slab on slab to convert to full block
17:32 tenplus1 yeah, I kept rotation simple on purpose :D
17:33 tenplus1 and players decorate with slab on slab so i disabled full block conversion on purpose
17:33 tenplus1 when fine_pointing is implemented I'll redo it again
17:33 Fixer tenplus1: it sucks, i miss efficient slab placing, need to rotate every damn slab
17:33 tenplus1 lol
17:35 tenplus1 using base/side/top placement and using shift lets you place in a variety of angles already...
17:36 sofar fixer: did we ever merge that slab placement changes in mtg?
18:00 Shara joined #minetest-project
18:00 tenplus1 hi Shara
18:01 benrob0329 Moreblocks slabs should be default slabs if possible imo
18:01 tenplus1 ???
18:02 benrob0329 they're not currently
18:03 tenplus1 which slabs ? moreblocks has a few
18:03 benrob0329 1/2
18:04 benrob0329 same for fulk stairs
18:04 sofar send a patch
18:04 benrob0329 *full
18:05 benrob0329 Doesnt moreblocks use looping to define each node?
18:06 tenplus1 yeah, the stairsplus mod that's included with it loops through all solid blocks and makes them into all kinds of stairs....   I dont like it :P
18:08 benrob0329 Perhaps an if statement could be added to check if node if from default, if so skip half slab and ful stair def
18:08 benrob0329 *full
18:12 tenplus1 nope, dont like it... so slow registering all the stairs :)) would rather have control over which nodes I make into stairs
18:15 Fixer sofar: same to same slab works nice, another PR for different slabs is not merget yet i think
18:16 sofar "so slow registering all the stairs"
18:16 sofar man, do you even performance?
18:16 sofar seriously, what, you've profiled it?
18:16 tenplus1 my humble net-top feels the lag and slowness of any mod :D
18:17 sofar if (performance_claim) then
18:17 Fixer sofar: he uses crap-crap-top
18:17 sofar get_hard_numbers_from_claimant()
18:17 sofar end
18:17 tenplus1 ehehe
18:17 sofar tenplus1: show me your performance numbers
18:17 sofar especially
18:17 sofar please, show me the numbers AFTER the startup has completed
18:17 tenplus1 put it this way, if I see "initializing nodes" during connect then there's an issue :P
18:18 sofar that's bullshit
18:18 sofar registration is already done when you see that
18:18 sofar "initializing nodes" is just the client receiving the node defs
18:18 sofar which means it's already done registering nodes
18:19 sofar which means you just made a nonsense performance claim
18:19 tenplus1 I watch it countiny up the percentage dude...
18:19 tenplus1 *counting
18:19 sofar I'm not attacking you, I'm attacking your nonsense claim
18:19 sofar when you see the percentage bar, you are seeing network packets with node definitions
18:19 sofar you're not seeing the nodes getting registered
18:19 benrob0329 here's sonething related to GitS https://youtu.be/hYViV3nFlDA
18:20 sofar registration of all those nodes is like, microseconds of time
18:20 benrob0329 I thought it wad an interesting video at least
18:20 tenplus1 then why does it make me wait while it counts up the % ?
18:20 tenplus1 to me that's slow
18:20 Fixer registrations are microseconds, i agree
18:20 sofar tenplus1: go ahead and print os.time before and after node registration lines
18:21 sofar tenplus1: go, do it, teach yourself something
18:21 nerzhul VanessaE, are you around ?
18:21 Fixer maybe media loading affects it more
18:21 tenplus1 could be fixer
18:21 nerzhul and/or tenplus1
18:21 sofar textures are loaded
18:21 sofar sounds
18:21 tenplus1 it's registering around 20 stair types for each node...
18:21 sofar and it needs to construct the client copy of the node defs
18:21 benrob0329 10+ Im pretty sure mobs redo is way worse on proformance than stairs+
18:22 kaeza joined #minetest-project
18:22 sofar benrob0329: performance claim detected, please provide data and method
18:22 benrob0329 *Performance
18:22 tenplus1 redo only registers slab;stair;corner;invcorner;slope
18:22 tenplus1 wb kaeza
18:22 benrob0329 No no no, I didn't make a performance claim
18:23 diemartin joined #minetest-project
18:23 twoelk wouldn't it be usefull if a dev-server with connection to dev-irc existed that had public performance logs?
18:23 sofar <benrob0329> 10+ Im pretty sure mobs redo is way worse on proformance than stairs+
18:23 benrob0329 I made a porformance claim :P
18:23 sofar guilty
18:23 sofar well, it could have been about aestetics :)
18:26 nerzhul who have one of serverlist big server and is around, and have access to player files on disk please ,
18:26 benrob0329 My data is called perceived lag, my method is called broken eyeballs
18:26 benrob0329 Plugins: glasses
18:31 tenplus1 stairsplus time: 1.3585       stairs redo time: 0.1459
18:31 red-004[IRC] how do I build a release version again?
18:31 * VanessaE wanders in
18:31 tenplus1 hi Vanessa
18:32 VanessaE hi
18:32 red-004[IRC] hi
18:32 nerzhul VanessaE, nice :)
18:32 nerzhul can you help me VanessaE ?
18:32 VanessaE possibly
18:33 twoelk carefull VanessaE, he's after your collected data :-P
18:33 nerzhul no :)
18:34 troller joined #minetest-project
18:34 nerzhul VanessaE, can you duplicate a server world dir into a temp world dir
18:34 nerzhul a huge player files directory
18:34 VanessaE I have backups already :)
18:34 nerzhul and run a minetest master server + https://patch-diff.githubusercontent.co​m/raw/minetest/minetest/pull/5475.patch patch
18:34 VanessaE (my servers do that every night)
18:34 nerzhul nice, can you use one of your huge backups to test the migration processus please ?
18:35 VanessaE however, perhaps I should just send a zip of them to you, I'm not inclined to fiddle with my MT build
18:35 nerzhul i tested on some files, but on my server i'm using postgresql DB since 2 years and i havent them anymore :)
18:35 nerzhul VanessaE, if you want, send me in private
18:37 nerzhul just player files, i don't want auth
18:37 nerzhul i don't need map either :)
18:37 sofar tenplus1: just timed all of `default`'s initialization time (ALL node registrations, crafts, items)
18:37 sofar tenplus1: takes 0.016s
18:38 sofar tenplus1: do it yourself - edit init.lua and print os.clock() above and below all the dofile() lines
18:38 benrob0329 joined #minetest-project
18:38 tenplus1 I did, and already posted the times above when registering nodes ^^^^
18:38 tenplus1 stairsplus time: 1.3585       stairs redo time: 0.1459
18:38 Fixer homedecor:plasma_lamp
18:38 VanessaE nerzhul: the zip in /msg goes with https://daconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies​/minetest/worlds/Building_World.tar.gz if you need the actual world too.
18:38 benrob0329 Dangit, mobile irc is a pain
18:39 * benrob0329 watches latest cat5 episode
18:39 sofar tenplus1: 1sec startup time isn't going to make any client connect slower
18:39 nerzhul VanessaE, no i don't care about world being playable, i only want to have correct data in database :)
18:39 nerzhul with various freshness, it's the most important
18:39 sofar the only people who take the 1sec penalty is you when you restart the server
18:39 Fixer his players run minetest on Commodore 64
18:39 tenplus1 :PPP
18:39 sofar irrelevant
18:40 VanessaE hey now, don't knock the c64
18:40 sofar even on a c64 client, you would not EVER take the INIT penalty
18:40 sofar the client simply doesn't RUN that lua code
18:40 tenplus1 that was just default nodes tho... IF it had all nodes available on server it would take even longer
18:40 sofar the node registration is NOT done on the client, period
18:41 tenplus1 did I say it was ?
18:41 Jordach afternoon, sofar
18:41 sofar the time to connect to a server is related to the *amount* of nodes, not the *way they are registered in lua*
18:41 benrob0329 Hi Jordach
18:42 tenplus1 hi Jordach
18:42 sofar <tenplus1> put it this way, if I see "initializing nodes" during connect then there's an issue :P
18:42 benrob0329 Then get gigabit internet :P
18:42 sofar no
18:42 sofar use less nodes on the server
18:43 sofar each node is a network packet I think
18:43 sofar so if you have 500 nodes defined, 500 packets
18:43 benrob0329 Oh, I had an idea the other day
18:43 VanessaE sofar: what, seriously?
18:43 benrob0329 what if nodes had states?
18:43 VanessaE O_o
18:43 benrob0329 Like, on or off
18:44 twoelk I'm not sure you are completely correct with the amount sofar, as that might be influenced by clever coding in Lua iirc
18:44 benrob0329 Or on fire
18:44 Fixer sofar: and 1 packet size is how much bytes?
18:44 benrob0329 ect rather than changing the node all the time
18:44 sofar depends on the size
18:44 sofar most minetest packets are 150-300 bytes
18:45 sofar benrob0329: then if you change the node state, all nodes on the map would change at the same time
18:45 benrob0329 Nit necessarily
18:45 sofar all nodes on the map share nodedef
18:45 benrob0329 If the state was per node it wouldn't
18:45 sofar (of the same type)
18:45 sofar there already is per-node state
18:45 sofar 1) param1/param2
18:46 sofar 2) node metadata
18:46 benrob0329 I mean being able to define extra states
18:46 benrob0329 Like, the client woukd display the node based on the state
18:46 sofar nodemeta
18:46 sofar meta set nodedef, actually
18:47 benrob0329 but without swapping the node
18:47 benrob0329 Like, if I wanted to have a lever
18:47 benrob0329 I would set up two states
18:47 sofar https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1118
18:47 benrob0329 One would display an on mesh, the other an off mesh
18:48 nerzhul nice 1 minute to migrate 5254 players from files to sqlite
18:48 sofar nerzhul: nice
18:48 benrob0329 But as to which mesh, that'd be decided by the client
18:48 sofar uh
18:48 sofar nerzhul: 1 minutes?
18:48 nerzhul i'm logging with one player file
18:48 sofar nerzhul: that's all player attributes and inventories?
18:48 nerzhul yes, maybe it's due to dumping all named on screen :p but i don't think
18:48 sofar benrob0329: that's what that PR would allow
18:49 nerzhul inventory is good, i don't have mod it's unk but it works :p
18:49 sofar change texture, change model, change visual
18:49 twoelk nerzhul: can I use 3rd party tools to view the data or is it all in zipped blobs?
18:49 sofar zip is open standard
18:49 sofar so, easily viewed in external programs
18:49 nerzhul it's not a zip it's a database
18:50 nerzhul all is relational, no serialization
18:50 benrob0329 sofar then I eagerly await it :-)
18:50 sofar yes but is it lz/zlib compressed?
18:50 nerzhul no
18:50 nerzhul why should i compress a field containing a number ? :p
18:50 twoelk ever tried to study the map-database? it's pretty much a pita
18:50 nerzhul it's a pure relational db
18:50 nerzhul it's not map database, for map it's normal to serialize
18:50 nerzhul mapblocks are blob data
18:50 nerzhul inventory and players are relational data
18:51 sofar nerzhul: agreed compression isn't that useful
18:51 nerzhul 54s sofar for this test on migration reducing screen output :)
18:51 nerzhul i have a SSD but everyfile is in my computer disk cache
18:51 sofar well, it's migration
18:51 sofar so one time problem
18:51 nerzhul ofc
18:51 sofar no use optimizing it much more
18:51 sofar 5000 per minute isn't that bad
18:51 nerzhul sofar, the main problem i have, how we communicate with players before merge ?
18:51 nerzhul no :)
18:52 sofar maybe print progress every 100 migrated?
18:53 nerzhul i print progress for each permitting to see failure with some points on screen, it'snot very important and the output is verbose i'ts important
18:53 nerzhul 44012 inventories
18:53 nerzhul 255308 items
18:53 sofar afk a bit
18:53 nerzhul and only 4 metadata VanessaE boo
18:53 nerzhul :p
18:53 nerzhul you don't use player metadata :p
18:53 * benrob0329 is watching cat5
18:54 twoelk so I could use for example this to edit entries https://www.etl-tools.com/da​tabase-browser/overview.html
18:54 benrob0329 "Please gives us 5 satures review if you feeling everything good"
18:54 VanessaE nerzhul: I do not use it in any of my mods, that I am aware of.
18:54 Fixer *,....,*
18:54 nerzhul on windows yes
18:55 nerzhul on unix i just use sqlite3 <file> and lets go
18:55 Fixer twoelk: or this http://sqlitebrowser.org/
18:55 nerzhul and for postgresql => pgadmin3
18:55 twoelk Fixer: yeah, got that one too ;-P
18:55 nerzhul i use psql myself, but pgadmin3 to edit your pg database is a professional tool used by hundred of postgresql users around world
18:56 nerzhul erf we don't have function to move files in core, i should have a portable function :p
18:57 nerzhul oh we have rename, it seems it's good
18:57 Jordach nerzhul, >mt engine doesn't have any useful file handling at all
18:57 Jordach nice game engine m8
18:58 * Jordach sips lipton
18:58 Jordach but that's none of my business
18:58 nerzhul Jordach, what do you mean by useful file handling ? the API ?
18:58 Fixer lipton pepe
18:58 Jordach nerzhul, i meant as part of core doing something for core
18:59 nerzhul the API is portable, but i think we should finish ShadowNinja part and rename fs:: namespace functions to stdc++17 norm for non c++17 builds :)
19:00 benrob0329 theres a cpp '17 standard?
19:03 tenplus1 I wonder how different it is from standard C
19:04 Krock ^ * C++
19:05 nerzhul benrob0329, yes, there are many new interesting features, like filesystem api portability for example
19:05 nerzhul it's the last huge portability not covered by C++11
19:05 paramat joined #minetest-project
19:05 tenplus1 hi paramat
19:05 nerzhul C++11 has standard mutexes and threads, the only remaining part was filesystem access
19:06 nerzhul but there are other interesting features in C++17, but we should use C++11 at first in MT, it can improve a little bit core engine performance if we use constexpr correctly
19:06 nerzhul we already use unordered containers in MT and it imrpove ~15% performance on our map containers usage
19:06 tenplus1 nice
19:07 tenplus1 every little helps :D
19:07 Krock Krock quit: https://img-9gag-fun.9cache​.com/photo/aBW6rYZ_700b.jpg
19:07 tenplus1 lolol
19:09 benrob0329 There was an issue on Urho3D that I saw one time, someone was saying that the patch needed non c++11 support as well
19:09 benrob0329 And I was like, why is c++11 still an issue?
19:09 benrob0329 Its 6 friggen years old
19:09 tenplus1 you would think all the issues would have been sorted by now
19:10 benrob0329 Its like, what are you using? GCC 3?
19:12 Fixer a.out format
19:14 garywhite joined #minetest-project
19:14 benrob0329 a.out is the unix equivalent of a 16 bit dos executable
19:14 tenplus1 wb gary
19:14 garywhite thanks
19:17 red-004[IRC] requiring code to work with c++98 is like requiring support for windows xp
19:18 tenplus1 linux for example should have repo's compiled for the latest versions of the os and code
19:19 tenplus1 am still surprised to see software depending on python2 for example
19:20 benrob0329 like blender...
19:20 Fixer tenplus1: gimp still gtk2, gtk3 is ---- :trollface: nowhere to runq
19:21 * benrob0329 hates the fact that blender uses python2
19:21 tenplus1 python3 was released 2008 so you'd think software using 2.x would be updated
19:21 benrob0329 But hey, Tcl/Tk is the future!
19:21 benrob0329 Ya know?
19:21 tenplus1 whassat ?
19:22 Fixer tenplus1: nah
19:22 benrob0329 tenplus1: Exactly
19:22 Fixer tenplus1: 95% of popular packages already support Py3
19:22 tenplus1 good good, 5% to go...
19:24 Fixer tenplus1: http://py3readiness.org/
19:27 tenplus1 mpv and samba are newer releases and you'd think they would be on 3 by now
19:27 nanovad joined #minetest-project
19:27 tenplus1 hi nano
19:29 garywhite It takes time to write new versions of software. After all, it takes Microsoft 4-5 years to throw rubbish together for Windows
19:30 OldCoder <benrob0329> But hey, Tcl/Tk is the future!
19:30 OldCoder Before Java, Tcl/Tk was a primary cross-platform GUI SDK
19:31 benrob0329 Its still around, but barely
19:31 OldCoder People, dozens of projects, had struggled to get their toolkits to the top
19:31 OldCoder Right
19:31 OldCoder Tcl/Tk, a bit simple and blocky (like MT) was arguably the most successful
19:31 OldCoder Tcl is an interesting language. But, no, the combination is no longer the future.
19:32 OldCoder http://oldcoder.org/general/​beworld/browse-beworld.html
19:32 OldCoder ^ This is what Tcl looks like
19:32 tenplus1 what larger programs use tcl?
19:32 OldCoder That one
19:32 OldCoder It is the world's largest...
19:32 nerzhul benrob0329, you are inexact, C++11 is fully supported only since GCC 5.1
19:32 OldCoder single-script Tcl game (even excluding data)
19:32 OldCoder About 100 printed pages
19:32 nerzhul and clang 3.6
19:33 OldCoder tenplus1, wish to see *my* pre-MT mobs? :-)
19:33 tenplus1 okies
19:33 OldCoder http://oldcoder.org/genera​l/beworld/beworld-main.jpg
19:33 OldCoder Behold the complexity and wonder of Tcl Mobs
19:33 OldCoder :P
19:33 tenplus1 ehehe cute
19:33 OldCoder The pig oinks, the car honks, and the cow moos!
19:33 OldCoder O_O
19:34 OldCoder Basically, the setup is Nethack and those are GUI Nethack characters
19:34 OldCoder In Tcl; excuse the remarks, but it isn't a bad language
19:34 tenplus1 kewl
19:34 benrob0329 OGL in Tcl??
19:34 benrob0329 Dang
19:34 OldCoder All languages are good. Except C++ and, well, Whitespace and its friends.
19:35 benrob0329 I'm legitimately impressed
19:35 OldCoder Object Oriented Tcl actually
19:35 OldCoder Read the source before commenting
19:35 OldCoder Take nothing on faith
19:35 * OldCoder says this knowing the code is good
19:35 * tenplus1 pulls out Cobal
19:35 OldCoder http://oldcoder.org/general​/beworld/beworld-caspak.jpg
19:35 * benrob0329 pulls out Pascal
19:35 OldCoder COBOL *
19:35 tenplus1 oopsie
19:35 tenplus1 pascal was good, I made my first gui lib on that one
19:36 OldCoder Pascal was a good learning language
19:36 OldCoder It was primarily Java that killed it
19:36 OldCoder If you had Java, which was Super Pascal Plus Classes, whither Pascal?
19:36 OldCoder <Pascal> Time to retire
19:37 benrob0329 Modern pascal is still a pretty cool toolchain
19:37 OldCoder I have a few programs that use it
19:37 benrob0329 With Lazarus n everything
19:37 tenplus1 Delphi :P
19:37 OldCoder Right
19:37 OldCoder There is a ZIP program based on Lazarus
19:37 OldCoder MT could have gone a different direction... C++ plus Lua is pretty good, but...
19:38 benrob0329 Its funny, java was the big thing not too long ago
19:38 OldCoder What if a MT domain language...
19:38 OldCoder Hm? benrob0329, it was considered the future
19:38 benrob0329 But now its just faiding away
19:38 OldCoder As in buy our Java books
19:38 OldCoder Or die
19:38 OldCoder Ruby had its moment, too
19:38 nerzhul VanessaE, i added core.remove_player call to remove them from database :)
19:38 OldCoder benrob0329, well Oracle has mishandled it
19:38 nerzhul and /remove_player <name> call
19:38 tenplus1 good one nrz
19:38 nerzhul i just need to finish the call
19:38 paramat sofar new slab placement in mtg is waiting for engine #5485 (fine pointed) i agree having a slab auto-rotate to vertical when placed against a wall is bad, usually it is wanted horizontal, so the new slab code is good
19:38 benrob0329 Slowly dying, very slowly
19:39 nerzhul to look if player is connected (it's not very important atm) and handle the exit code
19:39 ssieb joined #minetest-project
19:39 VanessaE nerzhul: that's a start.
19:39 OldCoder benrob0329, this is probably off-topic if others are discussing MT. But, I'll say that Java has quite an ecosystem.
19:40 paramat hi tenplus1 could you describe what you mean with 'can't sneak across a ledge' here https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5438 so we can try to fix it?
19:40 benrob0329 But for all that ecosystem it isn't doing very well atm, but maybe thays just cause I'm out of the java dev loop
19:41 benrob0329 As far as widely used apps on the desktop
19:41 paramat there was a fix for sneaking on slabs last night
19:42 paramat tenplus1 have you opened an issue about mob staticdata?
19:42 tenplus1 I rewrote those fucntons, is ok... using 0.4.15 dev stuff
19:43 tenplus1 before with sneak you could walk across a ledge, a gap in a wall, but with sneak changes you cant anymore
19:43 benrob0329 Ninja sneak is dank sneak
19:43 paramat please describe or screenshot 'gap in a wall'
19:44 paramat so there is no mob staticdata bug in MT? it was your own code that was buggy?
19:44 * twoelk wonders wether npc dat could be stuffed into an external database to have persistant npcs with a history and memory
19:45 paramat do you mean this? "you can't sneak walk from one node to another it the space is only one node high"
19:46 tenplus1 mob staticdata worked on 0.4.15 stable then all of a sudden it didnt on latest devs... I rewrote functions and it started working again
19:46 paramat ok please can you help us fix official MT by opening an issue?
19:47 paramat maybe just a link to your own code?
19:47 * sofar peeks back in (missing backlog)
19:47 benrob0329 We had a talk about old progamming languages, amd sneal features came up again
19:47 benrob0329 *sneak
19:49 paramat tenplus1 the functions you rewrote, were they in your mods or part of MT?
19:50 paramat we need to know if there is a bug in MT
19:51 Fixer fps drop bug reproduced, good-good
19:51 tenplus1 if I come across it again I'll post an issue
19:51 Fixer 7a4878
19:53 Fixer interesting
19:53 paramat so there is no bug in MT? which functions did you rewrite?
19:54 paramat tenplus1 please be clear and answer the questions
19:56 tenplus1 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5438 pic added
19:56 paramat thanks for the comment
19:56 nerzhul okay player to database now only required one remaining point, migrate from sqlite to pg and invert
19:56 nerzhul that's nice
19:57 nerzhul and some communication before merge i think
19:59 OldCoder Communication is good
20:00 Fixer nerzhul: finally database, no more thousands of player files, some popular servers had like 20 000 accounts, and that was damn slow to backup
20:00 Fixer some people will dislike yet again
20:01 Fixer 2baa191 time
20:01 paramat tenplus1 does current official MT have a bug with mob staticdata?
20:01 nerzhul Yeah, i backported my fork changes which are in production sice a long time :p
20:01 tenplus1 left #minetest-project
20:02 Fixer nerzhul: there is one more thing that annoys me, it is debatable, but /cache folder with thousands of files
20:03 Fixer my cache has 33578 files, size 254 629 kbytes
20:04 benrob0329 it'd be cool if mods could kick a server to anothet server
20:04 benrob0329 *kick a player
20:04 electrodude512 joined #minetest-project
20:04 paramat good grief =/
20:05 paramat he makes a huge fuss about a bug then dodges any questions about it
20:05 nerzhul Fixer, the cache contain a sha1 of each file downloaded before
20:05 nerzhul it's not very optimized yes
20:06 Fixer nerzhul: yep, it is just pain in the ass to move or copy since moving 30 000 takes ages %)
20:06 Fixer if it is one 250 mb file - copy/move is like 3 seconds, if 30 000 small files - 3 minutes %)
20:06 Fixer but thats ok
20:06 Fixer people rarely move it
20:07 nerzhul just drop your cache :p
20:08 twoelk I often move the cache when I update mt, just as fovorite-server file and other data
20:08 twoelk helps a lot on slow internet
20:15 benrob0329 Anyone have any ideas for keeping some files synced between desktop and laptop?
20:15 benrob0329 Both would be running Linux
20:27 sofar rsync or git
20:29 sofar there's plenty other alternatives, of course
20:30 nerzhul nextcloud client ?
20:34 benrob0329 I want to sync things like my .minetest folder
20:34 benrob0329 but rsync would probably work
20:34 RobbieF i gotz a better suggestion
20:35 RobbieF (not that I'm a linux guru or anything)
20:35 paramat ~tell tenplus1 ok i assume there is no mob staticdata bug in MT. when you wrote 'i rewrote functions' i needed to check whether you were rewriting parts of builtin or a subgame, in which case work would be needed in MT or MTG
20:35 ShadowBot paramat: O.K.
20:35 benrob0329 Hi RobbieF!)
20:35 RobbieF Hi  :)
20:35 RobbieF This is the answer: https://www.cis.upenn.edu/~bcpierce/unison/
20:38 benrob0329 "Sasha what are you up to?" 'I'm fidgeting!'
20:38 benrob0329 Me: XD
20:40 * benrob0329 bookmarks that link
20:42 OldCoder <benrob0329> Anyone have any ideas for keeping some files synced between desktop and laptop?
20:42 OldCoder Not familiar with unison. Some admins and developers just use rsync.
20:43 OldCoder Hm, moment
20:43 OldCoder https://github.com/OldCoder/rsyncit
20:43 OldCoder benrob0329, ^ that is a useful rsync wrapper
20:44 OldCoder In Perl, the language of the Gods :-)
20:44 benrob0329 XD
20:44 OldCoder https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/lisp.jpg
20:45 red-004[IRC] the alt text is great
20:45 benrob0329 Oh so that's how it only took God 6 days
20:45 benrob0329 He just hacked together a dirty perl script
20:48 OldCoder Yep
20:49 Shara Hello all
20:53 OldCoder o/
20:55 Fixer hi
20:56 benrob0329 I kinda want to hop on an anarky server and just lag it the heck out with a mesecons clock XD
21:00 Shara Hi OldCoder, hi Fixer
21:01 OldCoder Shara, moin
21:36 Fixer current mood: 281. 猫 シ Corp. - SECRETS OF MY AGE [with ローマンRoman]  [3:07]
22:28 Fixer reproduced the bug again :(
22:30 Fixer 2baa191
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23:08 octacian I keep getting an error that says "table index is nil"
23:11 octacian I have local meta_contexts = {} then I try to set meta_contexts[name] to something, and I get the above error
23:12 behalebabo what's name?
23:12 behalebabo that'll be the nil value
23:12 octacian You think?
23:12 octacian I'll take a look. It's supposed to be the player name.
23:12 behalebabo it's the only thing you're indexing there, unless the right-hand of the =  also indexes
23:13 octacian it was nil >_<
23:13 octacian Didn't realize it as the issue actually goes quite a ways back in my code
23:18 OldCoder It's often advisable to each pieces for nil as an expression is constructed
23:18 OldCoder Either returning or logging an error message as soon as nil is detected
23:59 benrob0329 joined #minetest-project

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