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IRC log for #minetest-hub, 2020-04-20

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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12:36 rubenwardy Should -hub be disbanded? Both #minetest and #minetest-hub are a lot less active these days, there's an argument that -hub has outlived its purpose
12:39 fluxflux joined #minetest-hub
12:47 Zughy pretty new here, but I guess so..? The community doesn't look that much vast, probably subdividing it even more portrays some sort of emptiness?
12:47 sfan5 #minetest is actually more active than usual these days, but to the point: I don't see much (or any) discussion with modders or server owners here so I'd agree that the purpose of this channel is kinda lost
12:48 rubenwardy my vote would be to move into #minetest, but there are people like tenplus1 that may feel excluded by that (they previously stated that they don't like #minetest, this may have changed since)
12:48 Zughy also because I guess you core devs and all have some sort of private channel, on Discord or whatever
12:48 rubenwardy All development is done in public
12:49 Zughy I love you (Minetest devs) but not in a creepy nor romantic way then
12:49 rubenwardy There is a staff IRC channel that is used to discuss things like security vulnerabilities and moderation support
12:49 rubenwardy but as an open source project, all development is done in the public IRC channel or GitHub
12:50 Zughy so if I may ask, do you have any estimate about when considering Minetest ready to be shipped?
12:50 rubenwardy !tell tenplus1 http://irc.minetest.net/minetest-hub/2020-04-20#i_5672297
12:50 MinetestBot rubenwardy: yeah, sure, whatever
12:50 rubenwardy Minetest already has stable releases
12:50 rubenwardy do you refer to 5.3, or to something like Steam?
12:51 Zughy yeah, something more for "the masses"
12:51 Zughy and I'm saying it as non Steam user
12:55 Zughy My 2 cents: 'til MTG is there, people will keep refering at Minetest as a MC clone; same for the actual menu, which is not aesthetically appealing. So if I were you (it's just an example) I'd fix those two things before shipping it and considering it "enough" for the mass
12:56 rubenwardy heh, Minetest would be ripped to shredded on Steam it its current level of quality
12:56 rubenwardy yeah, those are two things I'd like to fix
12:56 Zughy Hytale coming up is not helping either, unfortunately
12:57 rubenwardy Hytale isn't necessarily more competition than Minecraft though, and may help by making the genre more popular
12:57 Zughy idk, it sounds like some sort of Minecraft, but better
12:58 _Zaizen_ I think that hytale will  only bring players that already play minecraft in the community but maybe it will introduce new players to the genre
12:58 Zughy especially because Minecraft and modding aren't best friends
13:02 DS-minetest a brief look into the wikipedia article of that "hytale" thing already shows some cons over minetest: not open source, not for linux, java instead of lua eww
13:03 rubenwardy Hytale is also pretty firmly in combat?
13:04 sfan5 I remember hearing that the studio that does Hytale recently got bought by Epic Games
13:05 Zughy nope, Riot
13:05 Zughy even worse I'd say
13:05 sfan5 oh
13:05 sfan5 is it? Epic is pretty hated in parts of the gaming community
13:06 rubenwardy they're well funded but hated
13:06 Zughy Well, riot is 100% owned by Tencent, who's a Chinese company which motto is "Follow our party, start your business". And with party, they mean the Communist Chinese Party, showing its symbol at the entrance of their HQ
13:07 Zughy so yeah, if you're into human rights, that's a no-go
13:09 sfan5 oh that's a thing I keep hearing all over gaming communities
13:09 sfan5 and yet nobody cares that about everything else also comes from China
13:09 Zughy the same guys dropping a rootkit as an anticheat for Valorant, the new Riot videogame. It gains access to Ring 0
13:09 _Zaizen_ And Zughy didn't even mentioned the last anticheat in the last game they released.
13:09 Zughy HAH!
13:09 _Zaizen_ Oh here he goes. He mentioned it.
13:10 rubenwardy fuck the CCP
13:10 Zughy ^
13:11 Zughy the point is, you can't expect gamers in their 15s to know all of this stuff. That's why I support Minetest and I try to make it (here in Italy) more.. viable?
13:15 DS-minetest hmm, a possible slogan for minetest: "Not supporting political parties violating human rights" (don't add a comma there)
13:17 _Zaizen_ Yeah but the problem I think is that not a lot of people know about the existance of mintest.
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15:02 ANAND I support disbanding #-hub. While it's nice, well-moderated, and invite-only, I don't quite see the point of its existence, especially these days.
15:04 VanessaE it isn't invite-only
15:04 VanessaE but it does require a registered nick to join afaik
15:04 rubenwardy it's restricted though
15:05 ANAND Sorry, that's what I meant :)
15:05 VanessaE if you disband -hub, just make sure #minetest is usable for the same purpose
15:08 ANAND > My 2 cents: 'til MTG is there, people will keep refering at Minetest as a MC clone; same for the actual menu, which is not aesthetically appealing. So if I were you (it's just an example) I'd fix those two things before shipping it and considering it "enough" for the mass
15:08 ANAND ^ +1
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15:46 Sokomine rubenwardy: no! i still value -hub very highly even though i don't always have that much time. it is important that people have a place to get together and can talk. there's still need for that amongst devs, modders and server owners
15:46 rubenwardy why can't that be done in  #minetest,
15:46 rubenwardy Sokomine?
15:49 VanessaE because fewer devs hang out in #minetest maybe
15:51 Sokomine i consider #minetest to be more useful for general discussion - also for help for new players and discussion amongst players. it has a boarder audience, and important points can easily be lost
15:57 nerzhul why the discord just doesn't become the official thing ?
15:57 nerzhul irc is raw :D
15:58 nerzhul i know discord is proprietary, but we have nothing to be hidden and discord has private channel support
15:58 nerzhul and we are closer to our player base
15:58 VanessaE fuck discord :P
15:58 VanessaE you young whippersnappers and your overblown IRC replacements :P
16:00 nerzhul i'm not so young but i should admit that the player base is there
16:00 nerzhul and i never miss interesting messages on discord :D
16:01 nerzhul richer info, richer bots, it can be far more better for us no ? :D
16:01 nerzhul and it already exists
16:01 sfan5 endorsing a proprietary chat software isn't the best look for a FOSS project
16:02 nerzhul all big foss projects these days are using them
16:02 sfan5 but it's true that lots of the userbase/playerbase use discord these days, so having some solution would be good
16:02 VanessaE there's nothing about discord that makes a bot any "richer" than IRC. "richer" chat is just "oh let's allow dick pics inline" :P
16:02 VanessaE (am I wrong?)
16:02 sfan5 that's not a good argument, in fact it's pretty sad
16:02 nerzhul you are wrong, as far as i know you have no dick to share Vanessae
16:02 VanessaE well that aside :P
16:03 nerzhul many FOSS projects are using slack and not rocket.chat or mattermost
16:03 nerzhul it's also a question of hosting costs
16:04 nerzhul and generally a living foss project with various end users on various platform tend to use (unfortunately) easy to use/subscribe/register tools
16:04 nerzhul in our case as we are a game, discord just destroyed everybody
16:04 nerzhul i was using ts2 and ts3 in the past (proprietary), then mumble, but all were killed by discord on the WoW community, it's impressive
16:05 VanessaE and when discord is gone in 5 years because it became unprofitable, IRC will still be here.
16:05 nerzhul discord has sufficient usebase to convince people
16:05 nerzhul see Twitter which is loosing money, it's always here :D
16:05 VanessaE (or because some other chat service takes its market share)
16:06 nerzhul it's too late to change, discord has the users, the video stream, the bots, the integraitons the audio, the public/private chats, the moderation, the roles, it's all you want as a gamer
16:06 nerzhul twitch is the public scene, discord the private. The only who can defeat discord is twitch building one or buying discord i nfact
16:07 VanessaE the same things were said of every other "big new thing" that's come about since the web was opened to everyone.  where is America Online?  didn't IT have that same critical mass?
16:07 nerzhul america online was an ISP right ?
16:07 nerzhul AOL ?
16:07 VanessaE nope
16:07 nerzhul yahoo is still there :D
16:08 VanessaE originally a private service before home internet was a thing
16:08 VanessaE then they connected to it... then Eternal September happened :P
16:08 nerzhul ah, but it was another era, where it was just technical things
16:08 VanessaE nah
16:08 nerzhul now you have public mass, and public mass acquired means win
16:08 VanessaE it was for everyone. they really made it idiot friendly
16:09 nerzhul look at facebook, oh a concurrent, instagram, sounds to kill my user base, ok i buy it. whatsapp is the new generation chat app which will kill messenger ? ok i buy it :D
16:09 VanessaE "public mass" just means more eyeballs to sell to someone else when the time comes.
16:09 nerzhul yeah but i don't see which want the gamer data other than twitch for discord, you have an idea ? :D
16:09 nerzhul facebook gaming ? :D
16:09 VanessaE what about it?  didn't those supposedly kill AIM, ICQ, the MS messenger one, YIM, and the others?
16:10 nerzhul who ? discord ?
16:10 nerzhul discord defeated microsoft classrom shit :D
16:10 VanessaE facebook and instagram I meant.
16:11 nerzhul (many french teachers uses it to do learning these days lol)
16:11 VanessaE every 5 or so years someone comes along with "it's newer!  better!  richer!!", and eventually it dies when the money stops flowing, and we're back to good old reliable IRC. :P
16:11 nerzhul facebook has 16 years this year :D
16:11 VanessaE facebook is more than its messenger though
16:12 nerzhul i agree IRC is quite reliable but the protocol never changed to add new features since age :(
16:12 VanessaE and as chats go, it sucks ass harder than an astronaut's rear end exposed to the vacuum of space
16:12 nerzhul if i want to send my dick i should upload it and ensure you will click on it, it's anoying no ? xD
16:12 nerzhul (and no i will never do that)
16:13 VanessaE point being, inline images are a guarantee of getting objectionable content in front of more eyes than if you're required to click.
16:14 nerzhul yeah but everyone is not 4 chan user no ? :D
16:14 VanessaE the user is hostile.
16:14 VanessaE always, ALWAYS assume that.
16:15 VanessaE first G*d damned rule of networkingh.
16:15 rubenwardy I've never seen objectionable content on Discord
16:15 VanessaE always assume the client's only purpose is to fuck you up/over.
16:15 rubenwardy I have on IRC
16:17 * Sokomine nods to vanessae and thinks that discord shall not be considered as relevant here
16:17 VanessaE I don't use discord at all (other than I have an account there if it turns out to be needed for something and to guard my identity) so I've never seen anything objectionable :P
16:18 VanessaE imho, chat is inherently either text or voice and for the latter, there's mumble, skype, and a dozen others.  and it's easy enough to share an imgur link over IRC.
16:19 rubenwardy in the 8 years I've been here, there's never been a voice chat
16:19 nerzhul in case somebody likes modern tech <= https://discord.gg/uAkJy9 (or a preview of what it is :D)
16:19 rubenwardy in Discord, there's one nearly every night
16:20 VanessaE nice preview :P   https://imgur.com/RAfbxPG.png
16:20 nerzhul i'd like to hear you nice voice ruben, and you will learn my perfect english french accent :D
16:21 rubenwardy oh no
16:21 nerzhul sorry your image doesn't autoload in my irc client :D
16:21 Sokomine VanessaE: yes, i remember the bad reputation aol and its users had back in the area when whe still had newsboards shared via uucp instead of forums
16:21 VanessaE nerzhul: point of the image:  you linked to something that requires a login to view.  instant fail.
16:21 nerzhul but honestly just take time to read, look at topics and you will see what you can like or not on it, without that it's not a real test :D
16:22 nerzhul if i want to view there i cannot if i don't have an account
16:22 VanessaE every G*d damned website wants people to create accounts for shit that should not need it.
16:22 VanessaE and I'm honestly tired of it.
16:22 nerzhul you are registered with your mail on IRC too
16:23 Sokomine nerzhul: that the protocol of irc didn't change is a huge plus. not all people need to talk in pictures to communicate :-)
16:23 VanessaE only for -hub
16:23 VanessaE you don't need that on #minetest
16:23 nerzhul where is the shit, the gun, and the banana emoji, seriously :D
16:23 VanessaE 👍💖😀😁
16:23 nerzhul wow it works, just not friendly to insert with any client
16:24 VanessaE there are some.  sorry, I don't know the shortcuts for the ones you mentioned :P
16:24 VanessaE I use plain old hexchat.
16:24 nerzhul yep me too
16:24 rubenwardy hmmm https://rwdy.uk/35cgJ.png
16:24 nerzhul :poop:
16:24 nerzhul arf copy paste doesnt work
16:24 VanessaE and emoji are unicode.  if they don't work you just need better fonts.
16:24 nerzhul ah no heart for ruben
16:24 VanessaE yeah hexchat doesn't do colon notaiton
16:25 VanessaE notation*
16:25 nerzhul another irc problem: client support for unicodes :D
16:25 sfan5 worksforme https://a.uguu.se/N0ZcanpHnpc2_.png
16:25 sfan5 (although it's a little cut off at the top, I think that's a hexchat bug)
16:25 Sokomine nerzhul: btw, while i can get along quite well with written english, spoken english would be an entirely diffrent matter and much more complicated for me at least
16:25 VanessaE oh, and I typed those with X11 compose.  Compose + 1, Compose < 3, Compose : D, Compose X D
16:26 VanessaE seems simple to me.
16:26 nerzhul Sokomine, discord doesn't requires you to talk :D
16:26 nerzhul 💩
16:26 nerzhul yeah it works :D
16:26 VanessaE sfan5: yours is ugly :)  https://imgur.com/zkqJPud.png
16:27 VanessaE mine is just...debian's default :)
16:27 nerzhul i have same rendering as vanessae, i think sfan5 has old version
16:27 nerzhul (archlinux current version)
16:27 sfan5 nah I have the Windows 10 fonts installed, those are the Microsoft emoji
16:27 VanessaE (this is debian testing/buster)
16:27 Sokomine no, i see only two squares and two...don't know. half-filled circles? and...i think i can live quite well without a shit, gun and banana emoji :-) the good old smilies are fine enough :)
16:27 nerzhul buster is not testing currently
16:27 VanessaE oh, did they release it?
16:28 nerzhul Sokomine works on a Apple 2 with ANSI support only ? :D
16:28 VanessaE haha
16:28 sfan5 no, the packaging scripts extract the fonts from a real w10 installation
16:28 rubenwardy nerzhul: I'm in voice now btw
16:28 nerzhul i will take an apero with my wife :D
16:29 sfan5 (just noticed that question might not have been aimed at me, but someone might still find the information useful)
16:29 nerzhul what i like on discord #engine channel: people are just cool and show their bug easily with screenshots :D
16:29 Sokomine nerzhul: no :-) definitely not. don't like ios. but don't care about emojies at all either (though i do like smileys)
16:29 VanessaE Printscreen -> "host on Imgur" -> copy URL -> paste here
16:29 nerzhul i said apple 2, not iphone 2 :D
16:30 VanessaE and the copy comes from the screenshot program, how much easier does it need to get?
16:30 nerzhul i paste the photo on discord directly and it's shared, no more third party site :D
16:30 VanessaE discord is a third-party site :P
16:30 VanessaE you really think they don't use a CDN for that stuff?
16:30 VanessaE (if they don't, they're stupid)
16:31 Sokomine anyway...while i don't like discord and definitely don't want this channel to be replaced by it, there are many players on it. so it's great if some people volunteer to be on discord and talk to its users
16:31 nerzhul oh they use it but i don't see the point here
16:32 nerzhul yeah it's fine, and on discord i saw that some servers has their own private discord linked to the general one
16:32 Sokomine that's also fine if the servers and the players on them like it
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16:34 VanessaE for individual projects within the Minetest community, Discord is just fine.  There's an unofficial one for just my servers (which I also don't use, I stick to IRC).  But NOT for the community as a whole.
16:35 nerzhul maybe the solution is to keep both as intended, but promote the unofficial one a little bit more to be more official ? it became bit itself one of the ibggest community base
16:35 HDMI_STECKDOSE joined #minetest-hub
16:36 rubenwardy the unofficial one has 850 members, of which 200-300 are online at a time
16:37 rubenwardy Discord is easy to join, so not all of those will be contributing members
16:38 VanessaE in its heyday, IRC had tens of thousands of active users...
16:39 VanessaE but then, that's the whole network, not individual channels.
16:39 rubenwardy in its heyday :)
16:39 nerzhul yeah, and discord has million one currently, but don't compare the global userbase, just the per project :D
16:40 Krock it's a 420 day in a 420 year
16:40 VanessaE yep
16:40 VanessaE smoke 'em if you got 'em :)
16:40 Krock thoughts?
16:41 VanessaE Krock: too late for you I guess, but USA folks could spark one up in a few hours :)
16:41 Krock !tell ANAND @auto rotation: Well, that patch is to apply whatever rotation is sent by the server. It's not meant to make automatic rotation a 3D vector
16:41 MinetestBot Krock: yeah, yeah
16:41 Krock <3 MinetestBot
16:41 MinetestBot <3 Krock
16:42 Krock VanessaE: indeed. had somewhat different to do than thinking about it at 4:20
16:42 VanessaE heh
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17:58 _Zaizen_ About the discord discussion I just want to say that IRC is old but also the most reliable one in the long term.
17:58 _Zaizen_ My parents knew each other on ad irc 20 years ago and ircs still exists even though they haven't been updated for ages.
17:58 _Zaizen_ Discord is a proprietary solution and I think that is not suited for a Foss project. I would prefer something like
17:58 _Zaizen_ telegram that at least respect user privacy.
18:00 nerzhul as i said it depends on the foss project. Many foss projects are using slack
18:00 nerzhul many foss project are nowadays commercial too
18:00 nerzhul :)
18:00 nerzhul it depends where you put the cursor, but one of our problem in the past was to be far fro mthe community, at least the unofficial discord solved it partially
18:03 _Zaizen_ Yes the discord is easier for casual players to access because a lot of them don't even know what an irc is.
18:03 nerzhul yep and it's a little bit raw :D
18:03 VanessaE if they can learn how to go to discord, they can learn to use hexchat et al.
18:05 _Zaizen_ The problem with that is that they have to install things and learn to use them. They want to be feeded like babies with the "easy" solution they already know.
18:05 VanessaE I refuse to coddle people who refuse to learn to install a program :)
18:06 VanessaE remember, these same people don't even know what a web browser is.
18:06 _Zaizen_ I also refuse that but I have to admit that discord would help the community to grow even though I hate discord.
18:06 nerzhul remember, discord has screen sharing and voice, ti's important in gaming :D
18:06 nerzhul especially on multiplayer gaming
18:07 _Zaizen_ No one cares about screen sharing lol. I've never needed it in the 3 years i've used ts3. And i talk about servers with 60 on....
18:08 VanessaE nerzhul: yeah, so's SWATting :P
18:08 rubenwardy VanessaE: these people know how to install programs they'd just rather use a good chat system rather than an archiac one
18:08 nerzhul looking for the minetest discord, it's used once per day at minimum to share things :D
18:08 rubenwardy also, it's not just installing a program
18:08 rubenwardy nickserv registering, clocking, SASL, bouncers
18:08 nerzhul on irc you need to know commands
18:08 rubenwardy you get that all for free in Discord
18:09 VanessaE meh, I give up
18:09 nerzhul you want to show your mod code to a friend when you are developing, you screen share :D
18:09 rubenwardy I've been using Keybase recently, that's pretty nice
18:10 rubenwardy doesn't have all the bells and whistles, but it's open source and has end-to-end encryption
18:10 rubenwardy Updated https://github.com/rubenwardy/docker_phpbb
18:11 rubenwardy now uses a docker image based on  php:7-apache
18:11 nerzhul wrong chan no ? :D and you are on irc you cannot remove it :D
18:11 sfan5 non-deletable messages are a misfeature IMO
18:11 VanessaE THAT is a plus imho.
18:11 sfan5 I hate how on most platforms these days anything can disappear for any reason
18:11 sfan5 sure it sucks when you post something you didn't want to
18:11 sfan5 but eh
18:12 rubenwardy oops
18:12 rubenwardy doesn't matter
18:12 VanessaE being able to delete a comment in an active chat is just stupid.
18:12 sfan5 quick! hide the secret docker configuration
18:12 VanessaE (in social media or something, it kinda has purpose)
18:12 rubenwardy it's a public repo \o/
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19:21 Sokomine VanessaE: why too late for krock?
19:22 Krock it's past 4:20 pm
19:22 VanessaE yeah, he's in.  er... eastern Europe somewhere?
19:23 VanessaE (Germany wasn't it?)
19:25 Krock the the time zone is correct, so I'll let you count that
19:25 Sokomine no, we consider ourselves western or probably central europe i think (depends on where you're looking from?). it's 21:25 here right now
19:25 _Zaizen_ same for me.
19:25 Krock inb4 when they learn about /ctcp USER TIME
19:26 VanessaE well wtf do I know, I live in dumbfuckistan :P
19:28 Sokomine let's just use those who like discord use it. if some people volunteer to support it more, that's excellent. but it's no replacement for irc. not for us here
19:28 Krock relevant https://xkcd.com/1782/
19:30 Sokomine krock: *g* excellent :-)
19:31 VanessaE yup!
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23:17 ANAND joined #minetest-hub
23:17 MinetestBot ANAND: Apr-20 16:41 UTC <Krock> @auto rotation: Well, that patch is to apply whatever rotation is sent by the server. It's not meant to make automatic rotation a 3D vector
23:24 garywhite joined #minetest-hub
23:41 TommyTreasure i've been playing at Xanadu the past few weeks, and every so often, the sky turns black, and no sun or moon appear.  i believe they're running 5.2.0.  is this a known issue, or just something at Xanadu?

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