| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:00 |
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paramat joined #minetest-hub |
| 00:04 |
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ANAND joined #minetest-hub |
| 01:19 |
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| 02:27 |
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| 02:47 |
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| 02:59 |
Emerald2 |
What the heck. Going near a uranium block makes you keep taking damage even after you leave the area? |
| 03:06 |
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Ruslan1 joined #minetest-hub |
| 03:09 |
Emerald2 |
Fun new things in technic. :p |
| 03:40 |
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TommyTreasure joined #minetest-hub |
| 04:13 |
diemartin |
Magic. |
| 04:15 |
VanessaE |
witches. |
| 04:15 |
VanessaE |
or wormholes. |
| 04:30 |
Emerald2 |
I had to relog from game to stop dying from being radioactive. XD |
| 04:30 |
Emerald2 |
I didn't know I was about to walk up to a block of 3.5% uranium. :P |
| 04:31 |
VanessaE |
derp :) |
| 04:49 |
diemartin |
!rainbow ????? |
| 04:49 |
MinetestBot |
????? |
| 04:51 |
diemartin |
? MinetestBot |
| 05:03 |
sofar |
Emerald2: you're just looking positively radiating today |
| 05:03 |
sofar |
(I can see your tail in the dark) |
| 05:03 |
VanessaE |
heh |
| 05:07 |
Emerald2 |
lol sofar |
| 05:07 |
Emerald2 |
My... tail? |
| 05:08 |
sofar |
radiation, mutation |
| 05:09 |
VanessaE |
yeah, you can join the X-men now :) |
| 05:10 |
Emerald2 |
Worst super power ever. |
| 06:17 |
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| 07:33 |
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kaeza joined #minetest-hub |
| 08:24 |
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| 09:32 |
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Krock joined #minetest-hub |
| 09:32 |
Krock |
o/ u_i finally got an API documentation |
| 09:33 |
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| 09:38 |
Emerald2 |
G'day Krock. o/ |
| 09:38 |
Krock |
o/ Emerald2 |
| 09:50 |
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| 09:54 |
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calcul0n_ joined #minetest-hub |
| 11:35 |
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IhrFussel joined #minetest-hub |
| 11:36 |
IhrFussel |
Does get_objects_inside_radius() always take about the same time to execute? It looks like it... no matter if I specify as radius 20, 10 or 5 ... the profiler tells me it takes about the same time |
| 11:36 |
IhrFussel |
I guess it would make sense cause the engine has to loop through all active mapblocks in any case |
| 11:37 |
rubenwardy |
no |
| 11:37 |
rubenwardy |
the whole point of having mapblocks is so that you don't need to |
| 11:37 |
rubenwardy |
the engine will only iterate through mapblocks within that radius |
| 11:38 |
IhrFussel |
I mean the engine has to look through all loaded entities to be able to list and push the ones that are inside the radius |
| 11:38 |
rubenwardy |
actually, that PR was reverted |
| 11:38 |
rubenwardy |
so it does have to look through all entities |
| 11:38 |
rubenwardy |
which is stupid |
| 11:39 |
IhrFussel |
Someone tried to change that in 5.0.0? |
| 11:39 |
IhrFussel |
Or is it older? |
| 11:40 |
Krock |
was a PR for 0.5.0, early development of 0.4.17 I believe |
| 11:41 |
IhrFussel |
Why was it reverted? Unexpected behavior? |
| 11:41 |
rubenwardy |
bugs |
| 12:48 |
IhrFussel |
Uhh...is this supposed to be sarcasm? https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=22458 |
| 12:50 |
rubenwardy |
yeah |
| 12:52 |
IhrFussel |
The title is clickbait then |
| 12:52 |
IhrFussel |
Should've written something like 'What MT 6 could be like' |
| 12:54 |
rubenwardy |
I better move it to News |
| 12:55 |
Krock |
lol |
| 12:55 |
Krock |
offtopic storytime |
| 12:58 |
IcyDiamond |
LOL |
| 13:13 |
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| 13:33 |
IhrFussel |
Festus1965 claimed that any server with 40+ players is unplayable... well it is possible to keep it playable by optimizing any heavy code |
| 13:33 |
IhrFussel |
Right now my max_lag is 0.35 s with 46 players |
| 13:34 |
IhrFussel |
36* |
| 13:38 |
IhrFussel |
Only 4 of them are idling too... so 32 actively playing people |
| 13:42 |
IhrFussel |
He now lowered his dedicated_server_step even more |
| 13:42 |
IhrFussel |
'dedicated_server_step = 0.016' |
| 13:42 |
IhrFussel |
I swear if he has ANY mods that run on every globalstep... |
| 13:46 |
IhrFussel |
The default of 0.09 is not for multiplayer servers btw ... cause I#m pretty sure there are engine internal things that run on every step and with 40-50 players this gets repeated too often... or does every engine function also use a timer? |
| 13:49 |
IhrFussel |
I'm talking about things like 'check if mapblocks need to be sent/updated to clients' ... AFAIK this check happens every step right? |
| 13:56 |
Krock |
0.09 is fine for 10-ish players. 0.2 might be a better choice for a large userbase like on your server |
| 13:56 |
IhrFussel |
I have it at 0.15 and it works well with ~ 40 |
| 13:58 |
Krock |
and mapblock sending is async anyway |
| 13:58 |
IhrFussel |
Guys we need to find the source of the 'map lag' problems ... They happen more and more on my server whenever too many users with a certain app are connected ... I wasn't able to find out which app it is yet but I'm afraid that the name of the app won't help us at all cause it's likely closed sourced |
| 13:59 |
IhrFussel |
Either the map loads very very slowly or it stops loading completely |
| 14:00 |
IhrFussel |
Until a certain app user leaves... but if only 1 leaves the map starts to load VERY SLOW again... if more than 1 with the app leave it loads afster again |
| 14:00 |
IhrFussel |
It's like each app user adds some overhead to the map |
| 14:01 |
IhrFussel |
I mean adds more overhead than normal |
| 14:01 |
IhrFussel |
I set my 'max block sends per client' to 10 |
| 14:02 |
IhrFussel |
max block send distance is at 5 |
| 14:02 |
IhrFussel |
So pretty low |
| 14:08 |
Krock |
well, block sending is per-player |
| 14:08 |
Krock |
the only possible explanation is that they would discard all received mapblocks |
| 14:09 |
Krock |
because the importance of sending the mapblocks is distance-based, not just time-based |
| 14:09 |
Krock |
-just |
| 14:22 |
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| 14:29 |
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| 14:33 |
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| 15:10 |
Fixer |
hey,littledrums |
| 16:17 |
Krock |
Minetest idea: wireless data transfer, using raycast to check whether the view is given |
| 16:17 |
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| 16:34 |
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| 17:18 |
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| 17:22 |
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| 17:24 |
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| 17:42 |
IhrFussel |
Krock, does your explanation also explain why entities still load even in 'unloaded' mapblocks? |
| 17:43 |
IhrFussel |
All entities still load and function as expected when the map stalls |
| 17:44 |
IhrFussel |
And when I take something out of a chest during the stall it appears on my client as if I doubled the stack |
| 17:44 |
IhrFussel |
Meaning it will be in my inventory and still in the chest |
| 17:44 |
IhrFussel |
When the stalling is over the stack in the chest then disappears |
| 17:45 |
sofar |
that's client side prediction |
| 17:47 |
IhrFussel |
Makes sense... still, mobs still load in the 'void' and walk around...they are clearly working |
| 17:47 |
IhrFussel |
So it must be something that doesn't affect entities at all |
| 17:49 |
IhrFussel |
Entities are stored inside the mapblock though right? So those bad clients must trigger something that happens only after the server extracts the entities |
| 17:49 |
calcul0n_ |
this is "normal" behaviour of minetest, i see this all the time when the server is lagging |
| 17:49 |
calcul0n_ |
don't know much about that but it looks like entities and mapblocks handling are totally unrelated |
| 17:50 |
sofar |
why are you assuming "bad clients" |
| 17:50 |
IhrFussel |
Cause it only happens with randomly generated names mostly and only when there are LOTS of them connected |
| 17:51 |
IhrFussel |
I can see exactly WHO caused it cause as soon as they leave the map works just works again |
| 17:51 |
IhrFussel |
the map just works again* |
| 17:51 |
sofar |
so you're just guessing |
| 17:52 |
sofar |
have you ever heard of confirmation bias? |
| 17:52 |
IhrFussel |
It's like this -> Less than 5 mobile users connected = no map lag ... 10+ connected map gets slower and at 15 or 20 (approx.) the map stalls completely until 1 of them leaves |
| 17:53 |
IhrFussel |
These are no guesses! It is not caused by the official Android app |
| 17:53 |
sofar |
do you have evidence that this doesn't happen when there are equal amount non-mobile players? |
| 17:54 |
sofar |
or are you only looking at your server when there are high amount of mobile players? |
| 17:54 |
IhrFussel |
I have evidence that it suddenly works again as oon as a MOBILE app user leaves |
| 17:54 |
IhrFussel |
Are you telling me it's normal that the map doesn't load for 1 minute based on amount of players? |
| 17:55 |
sofar |
despite of that, I see no reason to suggest that this isn't an artifact of the engine design and there could be a huge bug |
| 17:55 |
sofar |
but it would be interesting to do a statistical analysis on the traffic to/from those clients and see if they are somehow making the server behave differently |
| 17:55 |
IhrFussel |
So far it only happens when my server is full of people AND most of them are app users |
| 17:55 |
sofar |
I assume this is a 0.4.x server, right? |
| 17:56 |
IhrFussel |
0.4.17.1 yes ... we would need a 5.0.0 server full of mobile players to test if it happens there too |
| 17:57 |
IhrFussel |
But I'm sure that it only happens with mobile users...cause 0.4.17.1 CTF also had this issue sometimes |
| 17:57 |
IhrFussel |
It was very rare cause CTF disallows these names... so only when someone installed such a 'bad app' and changed their username in the app they could connect and cause this |
| 17:58 |
sofar |
reminds me I should further brush up the wireshark plugin |
| 17:59 |
IhrFussel |
Something else I observed: It looks like these app users can still walk around the map while my client doesn't receive any parts |
| 17:59 |
IhrFussel |
They were able to walk away from me into the void |
| 18:00 |
IhrFussel |
Maybe their app code tries to prioritize the mapblock sending for them somehow and messes up the server this way...I don't know much about the map sending c++ code |
| 18:01 |
sofar |
there's a queue per player |
| 18:01 |
sofar |
you can limit the queue size, even |
| 18:01 |
IhrFussel |
Isn't that the 'max block sends per client' ? |
| 18:01 |
sofar |
yup |
| 18:01 |
IhrFussel |
That is set to 10 |
| 18:02 |
sofar |
super low? |
| 18:02 |
IhrFussel |
Default is 12 I think |
| 18:02 |
sofar |
max_block_send_distance |
| 18:02 |
IhrFussel |
5 |
| 18:02 |
sofar |
you can lower that one |
| 18:02 |
IhrFussel |
It is 5... should be low enough |
| 18:03 |
IhrFussel |
You think it's possible the app demands more than the server wants to send and stalls it this way? |
| 18:03 |
sofar |
max_simultaneous_block_sends_per_client |
| 18:03 |
sofar |
you can lower that |
| 18:03 |
sofar |
max_packets_per_iteration |
| 18:04 |
sofar |
that's something you can lower as well |
| 18:04 |
rubenwardy |
I suspect that some clients are filling up the quota for map loading, starving the other users |
| 18:04 |
sofar |
well, it would point to a DB bottlenect |
| 18:04 |
sofar |
neck* |
| 18:04 |
IhrFussel |
I thought there was no hard coded 'total' limit anymore |
| 18:05 |
IhrFussel |
I read somewhere that the setting is not used anymore cause it basically is the result of blocks per client |
| 18:06 |
sofar |
block_send_optimize_distance may influence bahavior too |
| 18:07 |
Krock |
IhrFussel: entity sending and mapblock sending are separate |
| 18:08 |
Krock |
rubenwardy: same as my thought but it's limited per-player |
| 18:08 |
sofar |
Krock: we could make the code send blocks around entities automatically |
| 18:08 |
rubenwardy |
isn't there a total limit too, calculated from the per-player limit? |
| 18:08 |
Krock |
yes sure but that doesn't solve the problem here |
| 18:08 |
sofar |
alternatively, we could *not* send entities in unsent mapblocks |
| 18:08 |
Krock |
rubenwardy: that too, on top of the per-player limit |
| 18:09 |
Krock |
it's limited by client and by async server step |
| 18:14 |
IhrFussel |
Krock, then I guess entities have no limit |
| 18:15 |
IhrFussel |
That's why every client can still receive them no matter how hard the server struggles with the map |
| 18:16 |
IhrFussel |
'I suspect that some clients are filling up the quota for map loading' so the client can ignore the set limits server side under certain cicumstances? |
| 18:16 |
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| 18:20 |
IhrFussel |
Should the mapblocks be visible as pps in 'bmon' ?? I mean if the server sends lots of mapblocks for a while will those pps go up? |
| 18:27 |
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| 19:16 |
IhrFussel |
Do 3K packets sound normal with 20 users? |
| 19:16 |
IhrFussel |
packets per second* |
| 19:17 |
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| 19:19 |
IhrFussel |
Not linked to pps ... map stalls even with 1.5K pps |
| 19:21 |
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| 19:24 |
IhrFussel |
Most users who cause this use an app with protocol version 27 |
| 19:32 |
Krock |
strict protocol version = true |
| 19:38 |
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| 19:48 |
IhrFussel |
But we need to fix this...else the same apps might cause map stalling when they upgrade to 5.X |
| 19:59 |
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| 20:01 |
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| 20:06 |
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| 20:06 |
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| 20:21 |
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| 21:10 |
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| 21:18 |
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| 21:30 |
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| 21:32 |
VanessaE |
Just spamming the channel.... <beg> https://www.gofundme.com/f/5pqdb-help-me-move? </beg> :) |
| 21:34 |
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| 21:35 |
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| 21:53 |
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| 22:13 |
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| 22:22 |
rubenwardy |
Would anyone be interested in hosting CDB mirrors? |
| 22:25 |
VanessaE |
If I didn't have this moving thing looming over my head, I'd offer. I have about 800 GB of available space on daconcepts. |
| 22:26 |
VanessaE |
(as long as you don't mind ssh'ing in and maintaining it ;) ) |
| 22:27 |
rubenwardy |
I'll check how much bandwidth I have available. The idea is that it would make backing up the uploads much nicer, and hopefully have localised downloads |
| 22:27 |
rubenwardy |
I wouldn't be free to do it for many weeks anyway |
| 22:29 |
VanessaE |
well I have that 800+ GB sitting behind a decent 100 Mbps pipe out of Canada, so just let me know. |
| 22:29 |
rubenwardy |
oh nice, there is no bandwidth/transfer quota. So that lets the pressure off for now |
| 22:30 |
VanessaE |
same here afaik |
| 22:30 |
VanessaE |
plus, DDoS protection comes standard. |
| 22:30 |
rubenwardy |
don't we both have the same model? |
| 22:30 |
rubenwardy |
Kimsufi i3 whatever |
| 22:30 |
VanessaE |
we might? Kimsufi KS-7 here |
| 22:31 |
VanessaE |
yep, the i3-2130 package |
| 22:31 |
rubenwardy |
Kimsufi KS-2C - 8G i3-2130 1x1TB Server |
| 22:32 |
VanessaE |
the KS-7 package has 2TB storage... hard to imagine I already soaked up half of that with my server stuff huh :) |
| 22:32 |
VanessaE |
tell you what though.. the SSD's in the old SYS server had me spoiled. |
| 22:33 |
VanessaE |
my morning mapper script takes 7 hours to finish now. used to take about 2. |
| 22:34 |
rubenwardy |
"morning mapper script" |
| 22:34 |
rubenwardy |
did you mean *minutes*? |
| 22:34 |
VanessaE |
hours. |
| 22:34 |
rubenwardy |
whaaaaaaat |
| 22:34 |
rubenwardy |
how big is your map? |
| 22:34 |
rubenwardy |
which mapper do you use? |
| 22:34 |
VanessaE |
there are 6 maps to be processed, two of which are in the tens of gigs range |
| 22:34 |
rubenwardy |
are you tiling it? |
| 22:35 |
rubenwardy |
oh dear |
| 22:35 |
VanessaE |
tiling with leaftest, and using minetestmapper |
| 22:35 |
VanessaE |
(i.e. the official version) |
| 22:35 |
VanessaE |
lesse... |
| 22:35 |
rubenwardy |
ah yes |
| 22:36 |
VanessaE |
37GB for dreambuilder creative |
| 22:36 |
rubenwardy |
leaftest takes a while |
| 22:36 |
VanessaE |
20 GB for dreambuilder survival |
| 22:36 |
rubenwardy |
https://rubenwardy.com/redcrab/downloads/ <-- I ran it here on a *100MB* file, and it still took a while |
| 22:36 |
VanessaE |
the others are under 10 GB, smallest is skyblock, at just 13 MB. |
| 22:37 |
VanessaE |
hey, I can see my house from here! :P |
| 22:37 |
VanessaE |
(just north of the water pyramid) |
| 22:37 |
rubenwardy |
leaftest outputs JPGs for the closest zoom, and it stresses me out |
| 22:37 |
rubenwardy |
so many artifacts |
| 22:39 |
VanessaE |
mine doesn't? |
| 22:39 |
VanessaE |
it outputs PNG all the way through |
| 22:39 |
rubenwardy |
huh |
| 22:39 |
rubenwardy |
I use a fork of minetestmapper, maybe that's why |
| 22:40 |
rubenwardy |
one that does the isometric you see in the header on thatpage |
| 22:43 |
VanessaE |
that's onomatopoeia isn't it? |
| 22:44 |
VanessaE |
or just some new feature? |
| 22:44 |
rubenwardy |
it's another mapper |
| 22:45 |
VanessaE |
oh ok |
| 22:47 |
VanessaE |
btw I think you have the spawnpoint marked wrong on that map. I want to say it's the intersection to the right of the white-bordered building that's to the right of the orange/white checkered building...? |
| 22:47 |
VanessaE |
been too long since I've been there. |
| 22:48 |
VanessaE |
no, that's not right either... |
| 22:48 |
VanessaE |
(I'm going from memory, the path I recall taking to get from spawn to my house :) ) |
| 22:51 |
rubenwardy |
the leaflet co-ordinate system doesn't work |
| 22:51 |
rubenwardy |
or maybe it's just that fork again |
| 22:51 |
rubenwardy |
it's weird |
| 22:52 |
VanessaE |
you're welcome to fiddle around with my mapper script, maybe it'll help? |
| 22:53 |
VanessaE |
https://daconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/Server-scripts/update-server-maps-leaftest.sh |
| 22:55 |
VanessaE |
one thing that seems obvious to me though is that leaftest or the mapper or *some*thing, reads through the entire database when generating a map, even if you've only asked for a small portion of it |
| 22:56 |
VanessaE |
because as the map database gets bigger, the mapping time increases, even if the area being mapped doesn't have any large changes |
| 23:15 |
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