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IRC log for #minetest-hub, 2019-01-10

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Time Nick Message
00:42 ANAND joined #minetest-hub
01:40 rubenwardy wooow
01:40 rubenwardy Github now allows you to post status updates   https://i.rubenwardy.com/asa3x.png
01:41 rubenwardy apparently I'm a pro now too
01:42 rubenwardy does this: https://i.rubenwardy.com/zi4mp.png
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12:53 rubenwardy CDB now has 400 packages 🎉🎉🎉🎉
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13:07 Fixer 🎉🎉🎉🎉
13:09 Fixer one sad thing, it does not support autodownloading/installing depends yet, i hope it is in high priority
13:10 rubenwardy yeah
13:10 rubenwardy I'm not sure how to implement that
13:11 nerzhul rubewardy gg
13:12 rubenwardy I think, in the end, it'll be a POST request with a list of mods. The request would then respond with a list of options to fulfill the dep
13:12 nerzhul rubenwardy i suggest to look at current package manager to have idea about solvers
13:12 rubenwardy yeah
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15:58 IhrFussel Hello guys
16:10 Fixer hello IhrFussel
16:21 nerzhul Hi
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17:37 Krock o/
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18:15 Fixer \\o
18:15 jas_ HELLO
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20:18 ircSparky is there any way to keep objects with looped audio connected them from going locationless once the object is unloaded by the player?
20:18 jas_ probably not
20:18 jas_ what do you mean unloaded by the player?
20:18 jas_ audio connected to objects is a pita from my experience
20:19 ircSparky well in my case, when player's drove away in their car, the audio follows the car until the car gets farther than the object load distance
20:20 ircSparky drives*
20:20 ircSparky then it seems to become locationless
20:20 jas_ i suggest making a github issue
20:20 jas_ audio connected to objects losing its connection and becoming unmanageable
20:20 jas_ that has also been my experience
20:21 ircSparky ok
20:25 ircSparky also does pitch actually work? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L820
20:25 jas_ yes
20:25 jas_ it suggests using it in the SimpleSoundSpec
20:25 jas_ this is generally incorrect
20:25 jas_ it works sometimes, perhaps not for positional audio
20:25 jas_ i suggest putting it in SoundParameterTable
20:26 jas_ https://github.com/jastevenson303/loss/blob/master/mods/main/functions.lua#L52
20:26 ircSparky thats just minetest.sound_player isnt it?
20:26 jas_ minetest.sound_play
20:26 jas_ correct
20:27 jas_ SoundParameterTable is arg#2 to minetest.sound_play
20:27 jas_ docs are super confusing
20:35 ircSparky what range is the pitch value supposed to be in? i dont seem to be able to get it to work
20:35 jas_ it will report an error to log if you use pitch less than 0
20:36 jas_ so i guess it's 0.01 (or something, maybe zero itself) all the way up to........ i dunno, i've gone as high as two maybe three
20:36 jas_ it works for me
20:36 jas_ this is the sound connected to an object?
20:36 ircSparky ah in your example the pitch is in the first arg
20:36 ircSparky not atm
20:36 jas_ no it's in both
20:37 jas_ it mirrors arg2
20:37 jas_ arg1 pitch = arg2.pitch
20:37 ircSparky ah
20:37 jas_ i think pitch doesn't work in soundspec at all, regardless of what doc says
20:38 jas_ i think pitch only ways in arg2, soundparametertable
20:38 jas_ and so there's PlaySound, and PlaySoundAt, some sounds are position, and some are not
20:38 jas_ it's weird because minetest only does a few things with sounds, but it's rather complicated
20:38 jas_ and i don't pretend to understand it at all
20:40 ircSparky yea i just cant get it to be any different pitch
20:40 jas_ do you have code you can paste for me to see?
20:41 ircSparky yea one minute
20:42 ircSparky https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/zzKFn5Vr95/
20:43 rubenwardy don't use _ as a variable name
20:43 rubenwardy _ means ignored
20:43 ircSparky :P
20:43 rubenwardy it's a notation that means that the value is never used
20:43 rubenwardy also get_pos()
20:43 ircSparky thats what happens when i copy and paste https://dev.minetest.net/minetest.register_chatcommand
20:43 rubenwardy also, have you tried decimals?
20:44 jas_ i like your variable named :D
20:44 rubenwardy It's _ there because it's not used
20:44 ircSparky yep
20:44 rubenwardy also
20:44 rubenwardy try this rather than the dev wiki: https://pauloue.github.io/lua_api/
20:44 jas_ well text variable isn't used?  it's inside the string.  i think you can omit args to func's function
20:45 jas_ anyway, s and ss and sss and super confusing variable names and i should be ashamed but i'm not haha
20:45 jas_ good luck to you ;'D
20:45 rubenwardy you can only omit tailing args
20:45 rubenwardy ie:     function(name)  instead of   function(name, params)
20:45 rubenwardy you can't omit name
20:45 jas_ oh ok good to know ty rubenwardy
20:46 rubenwardy becauses args are position-based
20:46 ircSparky at any rate, it plays the sound
20:46 jas_ 44100?
20:46 ircSparky but the pitch is not altered
20:46 jas_ oh
20:46 rubenwardy is the sound mono or stereo?
20:46 ircSparky lemme check
20:46 ircSparky mono
20:46 rubenwardy are you using 5.0?
20:46 ircSparky nope 0.4.17
20:47 ircSparky .1
20:47 jas_ i think pitch is in 0.4.16?
20:47 rubenwardy pitch is a 5.0 feature
20:47 jas_ oh no kidding
20:47 rubenwardy https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/5960
20:47 jas_ maybe it's fade i'm thinking of
20:47 ircSparky aha
20:47 jas_ well there that explains it.
20:48 ircSparky 5.0 gunna bebomb
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20:54 ircSparky yep
20:54 jas_ hope so
20:59 ircSparky i hear it has turnable entity collosionboxes?
20:59 jas_ for players
20:59 jas_ you can make a player very small and fit into small areas
20:59 jas_ i haven't tried very large players yet :D
20:59 ircSparky ah
20:59 jas_ i think for other objects it was already possible?  i'm unsure
21:01 ircSparky not in 0.4.17.1 afaik
21:04 ircSparky hm, i guess you cant change the pitch of the sound while its playing? it just does it until it ends or minetest.sound_stop?
21:05 jas_ correct
21:05 jas_ u cannot do much with a sound once it starts
21:05 ircSparky ouch
21:05 jas_ i would love: RETRIGGER, REVERSE, OFFSET, TRIM, etc
21:06 jas_ etc, etc
21:06 jas_ but alas, what we have needs to be exploited first methinks
21:06 jas_ i mean, the sounds themselves aren't great, and there's not a lot of stuff done with sound in minetest afaik
21:06 jas_ maybe it's a "chicken and egg" problem, idk
21:06 jas_ but it's definitely worth experimenting and documenting your results.  i really should try to address the documentation at least.
21:06 jas_ boo hoo
21:07 ircSparky yea i was hoping it would be possible to make car engines that go up in pitch according to their RPM
21:07 ircSparky although
21:08 ircSparky i could make the engine sound really short
21:08 jas_ yes
21:08 jas_ and not looping, or looping and quickly fading
21:08 ircSparky and spam the crap out of it
21:08 jas_ (minetest.sound_fade might be 0.4.17, i dunno)
21:08 jas_ but a lot of small sounds is a good idea
21:08 jas_ and would probably sound really cool.
21:08 ircSparky it would fix my other issue
21:08 ircSparky probably would sound a bit stuttery
21:08 ircSparky but hey
21:09 jas_ and you could manage the handles, and use minetest.sound_stop at various intervals to create a sort of .. well a nice sound
21:09 jas_ heh
21:09 jas_ yeah, do it to it
21:09 jas_ vroom vroom
21:09 ircSparky beep beep
21:09 jas_ hahaha
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21:17 ircSparky hey its actually not bad as long as i make sure the start and the end wavelengths line up
21:18 ircSparky has a bit of a supercar sound though, a very tight sound
21:18 ircSparky lambo
21:18 ircSparky messa like more oomph
21:18 ircSparky :P
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21:20 IhrFussel Is anything I wrote in this post incorrect? https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=340622#p340622
21:23 IhrFussel I mean about max_lag ... but it should be the way I described, cause that is exactly how I experience it and that is also why I removed it from my /status cause it gives extremely misleading values ... I implemented my own "sliding value" which goes down quicker with low lag and slower with higher lag
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21:35 ircSparky jas_, this is the engine sound i got after a bit of coding https://youtu.be/z66gzwoNfLs
21:44 sofar IhrFussel: max_lag is entirely calculated in C++, no callbacks
21:44 sofar ah but yes, the mod probably does use a globalstep
21:44 sofar misread
21:45 IhrFussel Maybe you should recode m_lag...it should decrease quicker/slower based on the current max amount...like if the lag was 10 seconds it shouldn't take 5 minutes to just go back to 5.0 and another 5 minutes to go to 2.5 minutes etc
21:46 IhrFussel seconds*
21:46 IhrFussel 2.5 seconds*
21:48 IhrFussel AFAIK that is the decrease algorithm... ~ half value from the last highest every 5 minutes
21:52 IhrFussel This algorithm is completely unfair if every server step after the 10 second one is 0.1 seconds ... it is dumb to see a lag of several seconds for 10+ minutes then
21:56 sofar it's "max" lag, not "current" lag
21:57 sofar that's the whole discussion debate. in reality people are askign for load_1 load_5 load_15
21:57 sofar multiple numbers - both short and long term
21:58 sofar changing max_lag to some different time frame doesn't help when people look for servers with "generally low lag" if the number hides severe lag spikes
21:58 sofar but server owners want to cheat
21:58 sofar and make their servers appear to not have lag spikes as much as possible
21:58 sofar so they prefer shorter window lengths
21:58 sofar literally, that is your argument.
21:59 sofar (not that that's bad)
22:00 IhrFussel There is nothing wrong with using a faster decreasing algorithm ... I use in my code (maxrec * 0.9997) if last dtime was less than 0.3 and (maxrec * 0.9993) if last dtime was >= 0.3
22:00 IhrFussel Oops other way around
22:01 sofar there's also nothing wrong with using a slower decreasing algorithm
22:01 sofar it's just a matter of taste/priority/bias
22:01 sofar but now that all servers are using the *current* implementation, *changing* it isn't fair, or even needed
22:02 IhrFussel If a server lags a lot people will see it regardless of fast/slow decreasing cause then the values will spike a lot and generally stay high
22:02 sofar adding more numbers seems a good solution
22:02 IhrFussel A lag of 10+ seconds is no regular mod lag...only very few mods/machines manage to cause such lag
22:02 sofar $ cat /proc/loadavg
22:02 IhrFussel Mostly World Edit actions
22:03 sofar the linux kernel even reports 3 numbers for load
22:03 IhrFussel Well then the current max_lag should be the longterm value
22:04 IhrFussel But I think adding one short-term value is enough
22:04 sofar but you want spikes to be attenuated much faster
22:04 IhrFussel I don't see the point in showing that my server lagged ONE TIME 0.5 seconds when it ran like butter after
22:04 sofar I do
22:04 sofar we can disagree about it, too
22:05 sofar like I said, everyone has different priorities
22:05 sofar but changing a long established standard shouldn't be done
22:05 IhrFussel There is no point in seeing how much the server lagged 20 minutes ago...what is your reason for that?
22:05 sofar just add another number
22:05 Fixer you can have three values
22:05 Fixer 1m 5m 15m
22:05 sofar you don't see the point, I do
22:05 IhrFussel The only point I see is "dumb" users thinking that would be the ACTUAL lag right now
22:06 sofar now you're becoming hostile and initiating an ad hominem attack vector
22:06 IhrFussel And I had enough of those people shouting LAAAAAAAAAAAG!!!
22:06 sofar look, I'm willing to have a constructive discussion, but not a shitflamefest
22:07 IhrFussel English is not my native language which is why I put dumb inside ""
22:07 sofar english is not my native language either
22:07 sofar not an excuse
22:07 IhrFussel I didn't find a better word for it...uneducated maybe
22:07 sofar 3
22:07 Fixer IhrFussel: you can add custom /lag command that shows lag values for 1, 5, 15minutes...
22:07 sofar stop talking because you're just making it worse
22:08 IhrFussel You can see my custom implementation here and it doesn't go down that fast... if my server lags for 1 second you can still see clues of it a bit later https://ihrfussels-server.tk/index.php
22:09 sofar post a patch, mod, whatever. I'll review it.
22:17 IhrFussel My implementation pretty much uses the same method as m_lag just with other decreasing values ... the engine uses something like 0.99999999999... something while I use 0.9997 or 0.9993 ... when the server lag is rather low the value goes down slower compared to a very high spike
22:19 sofar $!
22:20 IhrFussel m_lag += (m_lag > dtime ? -1 : 1) * dtime/100;
22:20 IhrFussel This is what m_lag uses
22:20 sofar you know
22:20 sofar some people were complaining the channel was awfully quiet
22:21 sofar I don't think this is what they wanted
22:22 IhrFussel It is absolutely not my fault if people feel attacked by my messages...NONE of them contain any insults or threats ... I only discuss personal feedback about how MT works
22:23 IhrFussel You can either react to what I say or ignore it
22:23 sofar DO YOU EVEN READ
22:23 sofar WHAT YOU WRITE
22:23 IhrFussel Yeah...like I said no insults and no threats
22:24 sofar just uneducated/dumb players
22:25 IhrFussel Uneducated is no insult... and dumb was inside "" showing that I didn't actually mean the exact word
22:26 IhrFussel Uneducated refers to people that don't know much about the stuff I talk about... that such people is a fact, not every person is tech savvy
22:26 IhrFussel people exist*
22:26 sofar you're just digging a deeper hole at this point
22:27 IhrFussel How am I SUPPOSED to refer to people that don't know ANYTHING about coding MT and just connect to my server and shout something they don't even know??
22:29 IhrFussel Do you even play enough on your own server to know what kind of people connect to servers?
22:29 IhrFussel KIDS
22:29 IhrFussel YOUNG KIDS
22:30 sofar ITB attracts a different player type, mostly older kids and adults
22:30 IhrFussel And rarely adults that see more than just a free MC clone in MT
22:31 sofar how about just saying "normal users" or "typical users"???
22:32 IhrFussel Your server is no standard server ... I think it requires some intelligence ... but most young kids/some older people don't understand the simplest things you try to explain to them
22:33 IhrFussel And you waste lots of time repeating and hoping that they will finally get it ... but often you just give up after a while
22:34 IhrFussel And you get mad when people just leave after you put so much effort into helping them
22:34 IhrFussel I sometimes get REALLY mad then
22:34 sofar that's ... obvious
22:35 sofar you are consumed by it
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22:35 IhrFussel I think it's perfectly fine to get mad at those people...they indirectly wasted my time
22:35 IhrFussel My freetime
22:36 sofar nobody forces you to spend time on making things easier for players
22:36 sofar you did that yourself
22:36 sofar self-inflicted wound
22:37 sofar if you don't understand that, you shouldn't be using and promoting open source software
22:37 sofar either that or you write the code to change it
22:38 sofar I've gotten mad about stuff before, but usually that energy turns into patches
22:38 sofar or I just walk away
22:38 sofar take a break
22:38 sofar look outside at the view (gorgeous snowy volcano view day here)
22:39 IhrFussel Do you know how often I sat at my PC thinking about how I could make certain server features/actions even MORE accessible? I went so far and made a tp command for example that isn't an actual command JUST because people couldn't understand /tp ... some seriously didn't find the '/' on their virtual keyboards
22:41 IhrFussel And I bet most server owner would just drop those users (not claiming anything just thinking logically)
22:41 IhrFussel owners*
22:42 IhrFussel I have no job currently...but I can well imagine that someone who runs a server, got a job (and possibly family) has not the patience/time to spend hours on their server just cause some don't understand commands
22:46 Fixer damn
22:46 Fixer I kek every time when MC adds shit-tons of new blocks
22:46 Fixer yet they look so good ingame
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22:59 sofar OH lawd working with glib is a pain
22:59 sofar searching for "compare gstring to cstring" reveals all sorts of fun results
22:59 * sofar glad WFH today
23:01 srifqi work from home?
23:01 sofar aye
23:06 IhrFussel Lol... look at that...I looked at the wroing c++ var to check the decrease of the lag
23:06 IhrFussel / Figure out and report maximum lag to environment
23:06 IhrFussel float max_lag = m_env->getMaxLagEstimate();
23:06 IhrFussel max_lag *= 0.9998; // Decrease slowly (about half per 5 minutes)
23:07 IhrFussel It's actually just 0.9998 instead of my 0.9997
23:09 sofar https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0MK7qz13bU
23:09 IhrFussel m_lag is only the value that gets reported to the server list ... which is in my case mostly '148' and likely refers to avg 148ms lag
23:11 IhrFussel And I set my server step to 0.15 seconds so it cannot get lower than that ... this is the compromise I had to make to offer a pretty snappy server that reacts fast enough for most people
23:45 * sofar gives up looking at glib code

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