| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:07 |
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| 00:15 |
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| 00:16 |
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| 01:22 |
benrob0329 |
paramat: why must you take the random bits of dialog from a previous idea, which led to another idea which led to a feature request as the only use case for said feature? :-) |
| 01:24 |
benrob0329 |
I don't understand why world portals themselves are such a low priority when other dimensions has been a topic of interest for years, let along a fairly general purpose feature that happens to help in the creation of them |
| 01:26 |
benrob0329 |
But to answer your question, yes the main idea for the use was was world portals. But the initial statement by me was for a different specific use case. |
| 01:31 |
paramat |
"why must you take the random bits of dialog from a previous idea" because there was no other use case stated |
| 01:32 |
benrob0329 |
Alright, that's fair |
| 01:33 |
paramat |
portals are not low priority of course, they're seential and already possible. but having them look like in MC or Portal is |
| 01:33 |
paramat |
*essential |
| 01:33 |
benrob0329 |
But then when more use cases are given, you don't want them because they weren't thought of with the original idea? |
| 01:35 |
benrob0329 |
I'm a modder (ish), and I want to be able to make some cool effects with my mods. So I think of a general purpose feature that can be useful for more things while still having my end goal(s) in mind. |
| 01:36 |
paramat |
the uses given by lonewolf were either invalid or very low priority and already doable with particles |
| 01:37 |
GreenDimond |
There are plenty of use cases for per-player entities |
| 01:37 |
benrob0329 |
being able to see players under certain circumstances can't be done with particles |
| 01:38 |
GreenDimond |
Hallucinations, second wield hand, HUD ~~hacks~~ effects with per-player entities |
| 01:38 |
GreenDimond |
to name a few |
| 01:38 |
benrob0329 |
and technically players are considered entities, just without a few things like set_velocity no? |
| 01:38 |
rdococ |
I'd love Portal portals but I doubt they're coming any time soon |
| 01:39 |
GreenDimond |
Heck, mobs that are invisible part of the time |
| 01:39 |
benrob0329 |
The effect could probably be done client side even, or as a vetted send like we already do with distance |
| 01:39 |
GreenDimond |
except this is per-player not visibility settings |
| 01:39 |
paramat |
a feature request needs specific use cases, and i expect you have some |
| 01:40 |
benrob0329 |
I can make a list, but it'll still just be random ideas |
| 01:40 |
GreenDimond |
I realized I have a need for it, two of which are already stated above |
| 01:40 |
paramat |
this is nothing to do with players, they're not entities |
| 01:42 |
GreenDimond |
I just gave 3 usecases |
| 01:42 |
benrob0329 |
My intended use cases are teleportation transitions, world portals and faked perspective |
| 01:43 |
benrob0329 |
Heck, if you wanted any kind of effect around something that was only visible to them, this is needed because backface_culling will still show the inside |
| 01:44 |
benrob0329 |
Jordach's title screen in Solar Plains would likely benefit from this, as it only needs to be visible to one person |
| 01:45 |
paramat |
GreenDimond it's easy to think up vague, random, low priority usecases. hallucinations can be done using particles. 2nd wieldhand would be coded properly as a second wieldhand |
| 01:46 |
paramat |
mobs can be made invisible already, globally |
| 01:46 |
benrob0329 |
thats the point |
| 01:46 |
benrob0329 |
globally doesn't fit every use case |
| 01:46 |
GreenDimond |
> Hallucinations as particles |
| 01:46 |
GreenDimond |
lol |
| 01:46 |
GreenDimond |
make an mob hallucination with particles |
| 01:46 |
GreenDimond |
a* |
| 01:47 |
GreenDimond |
paramat there are use cases for this and its things like this that make modders mad |
| 01:47 |
GreenDimond |
"give me a use case" well I cant now because you asked |
| 01:47 |
GreenDimond |
use cases arise in the moment |
| 01:47 |
GreenDimond |
and we know there are plenty |
| 01:48 |
paramat |
i'll be happy to support once i see a genuine need and very sigificant usefulness, but i don't yet |
| 01:48 |
benrob0329 |
what if you wanted a mob to only be visible to a player with night vision goggles, or some kind of clue, or some kind of navigational helper that every player doesn't need to see? |
| 01:49 |
paramat |
"doesn't fit every use case" we can't support every use case anyone thinks up, not even a paid dev team would do that |
| 01:50 |
benrob0329 |
*sigh* |
| 01:52 |
paramat |
GreenDimond you're confusing usecases with significant usefulness. as i already wrote, it's easy to think up a use case for anything however silly |
| 01:52 |
GreenDimond |
It is significantly useful |
| 01:53 |
paramat |
benrob sorry catching up, we can consider usecases you give, those last 2 may be useful |
| 01:56 |
benrob0329 |
Useful is very relative in the gaming world. What one game considers essential may be completely useless to another. |
| 02:00 |
paramat |
yeah. but following that we would have to add everything anyone thinks of, but we can't =) we have to look for general and significant usefulness |
| 02:00 |
GreenDimond |
I mean |
| 02:00 |
GreenDimond |
per-player entities sounds pretty significantly useful |
| 02:01 |
paramat |
anyway, it's fine as long as you add usecases to your request, 'it would be nice' just isn't good enough ;) |
| 02:01 |
benrob0329 |
I'll compile a list of the most useful ones |
| 02:01 |
paramat |
'sounds' proves nothing |
| 02:03 |
paramat |
sorry to appear grumpy, but consider you are asking unpaid volunteers with near-zero time to code something complex, it's considerate to state a significant use or need |
| 02:04 |
paramat |
one thing that irritates core devs is being treated like we're mojang, as if we can do all the things professional games do. MT has to be simpler due to it being unpaid work |
| 02:05 |
paramat |
not necessarily saying you're doing this, but it happens generally |
| 02:06 |
benrob0329 |
I don't ever expect anything I request to get implemented unless I do it myself. That's the trade off with open source. I'd have to be putting large bounties on all of my issues for that :P |
| 02:08 |
paramat |
it's even worse in open source because absolutely everyone can request features, so inevitably we have to say 'no' a lot |
| 02:11 |
paramat |
compared to a professional game we have far less core dev time, but also far higher numbers of requests. it's very hard to deal with this without disappointing people. being a FOSS core dev is extremely difficult =) |
| 02:11 |
GreenDimond |
I mean |
| 02:11 |
GreenDimond |
sounds like this is a relatively simple addition |
| 02:11 |
GreenDimond |
Considering particles already have this function |
| 02:18 |
GreenDimond |
paramat: I keep going back to mobs visible to specific players |
| 02:19 |
paramat |
then there's the choice between attending to requests and having to say no, or ignoring requests. in this situation the better core dev becomes the less popular core dev. it's very tempting to ignore requests to be more popular, but i put a lot of effort into attending to issues. meh |
| 02:19 |
GreenDimond |
That can be used for numerous things, not just hallucinations |
| 02:20 |
GreenDimond |
benrob0329: I already added one thing to entities, maybe Ill do this one myself too :/ |
| 02:37 |
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| 02:43 |
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| 07:31 |
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| 07:36 |
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| 09:01 |
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| 09:30 |
nerzhul |
@channel : i just pushed to master a commit which fixed the performance problem on sqlite3, we had a bug which write player on each save instead of saving them only if modified |
| 09:30 |
nerzhul |
(same problem on postgres but less visible) |
| 10:24 |
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| 10:25 |
Krock |
hi imaginary tenplus1 |
| 10:28 |
nerzhul |
Krock :o |
| 10:29 |
nerzhul |
Krock: did you see my commit on master this morning, fixing some anoying save bugs ? |
| 10:29 |
Krock |
yes. wrong named function |
| 10:29 |
Krock |
but seems functionally OK |
| 10:30 |
nerzhul |
which ? |
| 10:31 |
Krock |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/c1d7dbfc38e8f48b42d957afad2696a8e56b740b#diff-867322eb97b1d96001510bc7dfaf4225R227 |
| 10:31 |
nerzhul |
you mean onSuccessfulSave ? |
| 10:31 |
Krock |
camelCase |
| 10:31 |
Krock |
yes |
| 10:31 |
nerzhul |
okay fixing |
| 10:31 |
Krock |
no it's ok |
| 10:32 |
Krock |
just tiny things |
| 10:33 |
nerzhul |
too late :p |
| 10:34 |
nerzhul |
i am very happy to find this because of the sqlite3 default backend PR, else we would have found it after release i think :( |
| 10:34 |
nerzhul |
yeah i'm enthusiast this morning :D |
| 11:00 |
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| 11:59 |
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| 13:20 |
nerzhul |
@channel is there anybody with android 5 or older device ? |
| 13:20 |
nerzhul |
i will generate an apk with a libgmp fix (if possible) i need to ensure it works |
| 13:24 |
jas_ |
paramat: and it's appreciated. |
| 13:31 |
rubenwardy |
Emulator? |
| 13:32 |
nerzhul |
rubenwardy i don't have that on my machine at work |
| 13:32 |
nerzhul |
and at home the GL abstraction layer is not working on 3D engines :( |
| 13:32 |
rubenwardy |
Ah right |
| 13:47 |
Krock |
Android/CyanogenMod 4.1.2/10 |
| 13:47 |
Krock |
is that supported, nerzhul ? |
| 13:48 |
Calinou |
4.1 is very old, I doubt it |
| 13:48 |
Krock |
thus I'm asking |
| 13:49 |
nerzhul |
in stable-0.4 it should |
| 13:49 |
nerzhul |
Krock : https://github.com/minetest/minetest/releases/download/0.4.17.1/Minetest-0.4.17.3.apk |
| 13:49 |
nerzhul |
take that |
| 13:49 |
nerzhul |
it should crash |
| 13:49 |
nerzhul |
(with libgmp error) |
| 13:50 |
nerzhul |
i'm building the new version |
| 13:53 |
Krock |
yes, it crashes before loading the main screen |
| 13:53 |
Krock |
I expected more debug info though |
| 14:01 |
nerzhul |
let me some minutes to generate with mini gmp |
| 14:01 |
nerzhul |
i'm fighting with the global Android.mk to replace gmp :p |
| 14:02 |
nerzhul |
it's compiling we will see if we can get an apk |
| 14:05 |
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| 14:13 |
nerzhul |
erf linking issue with mini-gmp |
| 14:26 |
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| 15:30 |
nerzhul |
Krock are you there ? :) |
| 15:30 |
Krock |
no, I'm in #-dev |
| 16:28 |
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| 16:31 |
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| 16:32 |
benrob0329 |
Krock: I keep being told that things like particles (and other things) can be used to impliment some of these use cases, but I have yet to be told conceptually how the heck that would work |
| 16:33 |
Krock |
1) spawn particle spawner |
| 16:33 |
Krock |
2) profit |
| 16:34 |
benrob0329 |
But like, particles can't use animated textures or change textures iirc |
| 16:34 |
Krock |
you can specify a texture and lifespan. basics for temporary visual effects |
| 16:34 |
benrob0329 |
and if you want to have anything three-dimentional it goes out the window immediately |
| 16:35 |
Krock |
they can't because you cannot index the particles. they're just sent to display client-side |
| 16:35 |
Krock |
yes, possibly just 2D-shape. Dunno whether other stuff is available |
| 16:35 |
* Krock |
points at docs |
| 16:36 |
* benrob0329 |
double checks |
| 16:37 |
benrob0329 |
ok, so they can use animated textures |
| 16:37 |
benrob0329 |
but that's about it |
| 16:37 |
benrob0329 |
that doesn't really help if you want say, a GPS-style navigational display or something |
| 16:38 |
benrob0329 |
which would be really cool for some servers |
| 16:38 |
benrob0329 |
or if you wanted anything other than sprites for effects |
| 16:59 |
Fixer |
I have android 4.0 """mediaplayer" that I never used due to shitty wifi signal, now it is outdated AF and I have no devices to hook it since it is hdmi (apart from TV), and seems like hdmi adapters are much more ... complex shit |
| 17:01 |
nerzhul |
i think i will rework my particle weather PR , i don't know how, for 5.1 |
| 17:02 |
nerzhul |
to permit use irrlicht particle generators |
| 17:02 |
nerzhul |
with that server owners can generate lasers, flamethrowers and more haha |
| 17:03 |
Fixer |
remember that epic bug with explosions causing large fps drops for everyone on the server? i member |
| 17:03 |
Fixer |
sometimes i'm not exactly useless |
| 17:04 |
benrob0329 |
nerzhul: what happened to the general PR for irrlicht particles? |
| 17:05 |
nerzhul |
yeah but the problem is not particles it's the mapblock updates |
| 17:05 |
nerzhul |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/7519 |
| 17:05 |
benrob0329 |
that seems like it'd be fairly high-priority considering how bad our current particles perform |
| 17:06 |
benrob0329 |
doing anything even remotely complex with them results in a massive drop in performance |
| 17:06 |
nerzhul |
benrob0329 i think i will make this PR different on 5.1 |
| 17:06 |
nerzhul |
but yes |
| 17:07 |
benrob0329 |
nerzhul: there was a PR for it a while ago, was abondoned though iirc |
| 17:08 |
nerzhul |
benrob0329 we are trying to close the merge windows of 5.0.0 and it's nearly done :) |
| 17:10 |
benrob0329 |
nerzhul: 5.0 or the Irrlicht Particles PR? |
| 17:10 |
nerzhul |
5.0 |
| 17:10 |
benrob0329 |
both sound nice to have in a stable form |
| 17:11 |
nerzhul |
i'm pushing for releasing 5.0.0 before end of the month |
| 17:11 |
benrob0329 |
wow |
| 17:11 |
nerzhul |
but other devs are very busy |
| 17:11 |
nerzhul |
Here is the current milestone form https://github.com/minetest/minetest/milestone/9 |
| 17:18 |
benrob0329 |
You know, it'd be cool if someone made a good commertial game using the MT engine and used the money towards paying the core devs |
| 17:29 |
rubenwardy |
like Multicraft? |
| 17:29 |
rubenwardy |
already happens |
| 17:30 |
rubenwardy |
not much though |
| 17:30 |
benrob0329 |
"good" |
| 17:30 |
benrob0329 |
not "same crap again, slightly different" |
| 18:05 |
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| 18:27 |
BillyS |
Is there a program to export a minetest map to some other file like a .obj, .x, or .blend? |
| 18:34 |
BillyS |
Apparently not |
| 18:36 |
benrob0329 |
BillyS: there was |
| 18:36 |
BillyS |
It wasn't updated for new map formats I suppose? |
| 18:37 |
benrob0329 |
dunno, I'd have to dig for it at this point |
| 19:02 |
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| 19:19 |
celeron55 |
this one, but it's 4 years old https://github.com/prestidigitator/minetest-mod-blockexport/ |
| 19:19 |
celeron55 |
i think it's designed for 3d printing so probably not suitable for whatever else target you have |
| 19:20 |
celeron55 |
https://www.instructables.com/id/Minetest-and-3D-Printing/ |
| 19:21 |
VanessaE |
related, https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2640546 |
| 19:21 |
VanessaE |
:) |
| 19:25 |
benrob0329 |
wasn't there some Minetest merch as well that supported the devs? |
| 19:29 |
nerzhul |
a wild celeron55 appears => master ball |
| 19:40 |
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| 19:43 |
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| 20:31 |
Fixer |
he uses teleport and then sleeps for few years |
| 20:34 |
nerzhul |
fuck it was a abra |
| 20:43 |
Sokomine |
hm :-) printing out houses might be fun. except that...well...the textures would be missing. and we'd run into the same problem that exists rl: the houses take up space. hard discs or ssds can accomodate far more buildings i'm afraid... |
| 20:43 |
* Sokomine |
secretly prints some houses on VanessaEs printer and stores them there |
| 20:51 |
Calinou |
benrob0329: it's not listed anymore on https://www.minetest.net/development/#donate |
| 20:52 |
Calinou |
but yeah, mugs were up for sale a while ago (printed by Cafepress) |
| 21:05 |
benrob0329 |
I'd buy a T Shirt |
| 21:09 |
Calinou |
I would too, if it was shippable for cheap to France |
| 21:11 |
Krock |
really? where's the opensource philosophy there? Buy an image to burn it onto any shirt you like. make -jIRON |
| 21:12 |
Calinou |
heh |
| 21:12 |
Calinou |
you can do that too, but it's probably more expensive |
| 21:12 |
Krock |
./burn shirt.iso -o empty_shirt |
| 21:12 |
Calinou |
mktshirt -DCOLOR=white |
| 21:12 |
Krock |
mktshirt -DCOLOR=white | burn minetest_logo.iso |
| 21:15 |
benrob0329 |
I mean, you could use those printable inkjet iron on things, but they don't work very well in my experience |
| 21:36 |
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