Time  Nick             Message
11:33 IhrFussel        Hi guys ... when someone puts water high above the spawn would you say it's "griefing"?
11:33 IhrFussel        I find "water griefing" in MC forums
11:38 CWz              Yes
12:25 BuckarooBanzai   IhrFussel: i would say yes...
12:26 BuckarooBanzai   IhrFussel: while we are on the subject: how is stealing handled on your server? I think i need to set up proper rules myself :)
12:29 IhrFussel        That is a pretty complicated subject ... most cases of stealing are "taking x from storage" and then my rule is "if the storage *obviously* belongs to a certain player and you knowingly take stuff from it without permission you steal"
12:31 IhrFussel        The "obviously" part can be interpreted differently though... what I mean by that is when it's pretty easy to see that it belongs to someone
12:31 IhrFussel        Like inside a house
12:33 IhrFussel        You should ask yourself if taking dropped item entities is "stealing" ... if yes it will be hard to find out (requires modifying builtin AFAIK)
12:34 IhrFussel        If you use a mod that collects items without punching them first it will be even harder cause then you have to modify both builtin and the mod
12:35 IhrFussel        And it will fill up the debug.txt very fast if you add minetest.log() to each picked up item
12:36 IhrFussel        Not to mention that such a "collect items near player" mod introduces more problems like "hey i was just standing next to them it's not my fault that i received the item"
12:38 rubenwardy       compilers are stupid https://i.rubenwardy.com/D0r08.png
12:38 IhrFussel        I had to add lots of custom log messages to my server cause vanilla MT pretty much only logs placing/digging/inventory actions and errors
12:39 BuckarooBanzai   IhrFussel: collecting evidence is not the problem. i'm conflicted if i should treat stealing as a rule violation, i mean killing is allowed and thats heavier than stealing imo...
12:41 IhrFussel        That depends on what happens after a player dies... do they drop their stuff? Then "no stealing" as rule is pointless ... if you use the bones mod (or similar) that makes it clear when the stuff still belongs to the dead player and when not anymore then it could work
12:41 rubenwardy       I prefer to discourage or stop things at the game play level, rather than the rule level
12:42 BuckarooBanzai   i would like that too, but i need to draw the line first. for example: is it stealing if you enclose and protect the bones of the killed player...?
12:43 IhrFussel        I use for example the bones mod with a timeout of 30 minutes ... some "clever" players think they can steal bones by covering them and protecting but I count that as stealing
12:44 IhrFussel        Cause the bones were still fresh and the owner had no chance to get to them
12:46 IhrFussel        I think it's also not easy to decide on an appropriate punishment for stealing... I mean someone who steals 10 dirt should not be treated the same as someone who steals a chest full of diamond blocks you know?
12:48 IhrFussel        Yet another question is: What happens when you punish the player (jail, kick, temp ban etc) ... what happens with the stolen goods? It's not easy to retrieve them (need to edit files/DB)
12:50 IhrFussel        If the player stored them somewhere on the map you're pretty much screwed
12:58 BuckarooBanzai   IhrFussel: i have a few moderators with pretty creative ideas when i comes to punishment, i don't think thats the problem :)
12:59 IhrFussel        Yes, but I'm talking about the stolen goods... is the punished player allowed to keep them? Or do you plan to add methods to "track" items? MT cannot easily track items that are stored in different chests
13:18 ChimneySwift     I find the "if you can access it, it's fair game" rule tends to resolve most issues, people need to lock up their items :P covering up bones is a pretty annoying thing to do though, I'd count that as stealing.
13:19 ChimneySwift     also, if you revoke interact and /give the items, you can then wait till the stealer returns them and throw them away and regrant interact. If they don't then they just never get interact back
13:23 rubenwardy       ChimneySwift: they can't take the items from chests without interact
13:23 rubenwardy       I guess they could take you to the chest
13:25 ChimneySwift     yeah, grant and watch while they give them back, or take directly from their chest
13:28 BuckarooBanzai   i like the "if you can access it, it's fair game" rule, much less work as admin or moderator :)
13:31 * BuckarooBanzai wonders why there isn't a general server rule template for server owners in the wiki
13:39 rubenwardy       relevant: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19788
13:39 rubenwardy       !title
13:39 MinetestBot      rubenwardy: Translated Server Rules and Common Phrases - Minetest Forums
14:02 IhrFussel        "if you can access it" you can pretty much access any house with the famous lag glitch
14:03 IhrFussel        If I would require every player to only use locked objects then the whole server would be one huge target for theft
14:04 IhrFussel        Many players don't know about locked chests or cannot afford them for some reason (some never go mining)
14:31 IcyDiamond       is there any way to tell if a node was generated naturally or placed by a player
14:32 VanessaE         not after the fact, but you can make a mod that'll set some metadata on every place action, then check for said meta later as needed.
14:33 VanessaE         though there are plenty of nodes that are never used by the mapgen
14:33 IcyDiamond       thought so
14:33 VanessaE         you could just assume any node like that (such as, say, sandstone bricks, wool, xpanes, and so on) was user-placed if you find one.
14:34 IcyDiamond       https://i.lunasqu.ee/Screenshot_18-12-03-16:33:44.png well i might have something in the works, not sure if im going through with this idea
14:34 VanessaE         (actually, forget the sandstone brick, that's used for dungeons
14:34 VanessaE         )
14:35 IcyDiamond       rubenwardy: can you update your lua_api.html please?
16:08 jas_             so happy.  itemstack:get_meta is pretty alright.
16:08 rubenwardy       :D
18:08 Fixer            one more year and then you will be happy
18:10 Krock            !tell tenplus1 Perhaps consider making "set_velocity" a public API function in mobs_redo
18:10 MinetestBot      Krock: I'll pass that on when tenplus1 is around
19:45 IhrFussel        I think I managed to add "shared kill EXP" to Mobs Redo and it's great!
20:47 IhrFussel        Calling minetest.chat_send_player() on someone who isn't online will not cause issues correct?
22:17 IhrFussel        self.name doesn't work anymore when the entity has been removed? Cause I use object:remove() on a mob I disabled and still see unknown objects of it