| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:01 |
Grandolf |
what are the legalities of builds in a world? am i allowed to run someone elses server if im given the files? and is it legal for the files to be transferred? |
| 00:03 |
Grandolf |
also is it legal for me to capture someones builds in a server? |
| 00:06 |
sfan5 |
I don't think there's any lawyer here than can answer these questions |
| 00:06 |
Shara |
Grandolf: Will anyone take you to court over copying builds? I doubt it., but also not a lawyer. However some people to set a license or terms of use on schematics they make available, and some players will certainly be very upset if you go and copy their work without their agreement. |
| 00:07 |
Shara |
do set* |
| 00:08 |
T4im |
abstractly speaking any work that passes a threshold of originality could potentially be copyright protected; whether that is expressed on paper or a minetest server ought to make no difference |
| 00:09 |
T4im |
but i wonder if in the minecraft world that actually has ever been taken to court :x if not, then i highly doubt it's gonna happen here :P |
| 00:10 |
Shara |
I do have something in my server rules saying original builds should be considered copyright of whoever made them and you should ask before reusing them for something outside my servers. But some things are about decency rather than whether they can be enforced or not. |
| 00:11 |
T4im |
indeed |
| 00:11 |
T4im |
i mean, asking for permission is bothe decent and removes any legal doubts one might have |
| 00:11 |
T4im |
:D |
| 00:16 |
Grandolf |
its difficult to ask every memeber who ever built in a world if its ok to host an old server again |
| 00:17 |
Grandolf |
especially when that server has had alot of people in it who dont play minetest anymore |
| 00:18 |
T4im |
if you have the permission of the previous hoster, it's usually ok; as long as you don't create a copy of the world parallel to the original one; which hasn't worked out well in the past |
| 00:18 |
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| 00:19 |
Grandolf |
if someone hosted the server, and someone else did all the modding and admin-ing, whos is the server? |
| 00:19 |
Grandolf |
who owns it? |
| 00:21 |
T4im |
that seems irrelevant; if your goal is to keep the world alive, you ideally want the permission of anyone involved in hosting/administration to agree you taking over |
| 00:21 |
T4im |
so that noone in the previous team gets the idea to do the same themselves, and you end up with two versions of the world online at the same time |
| 00:21 |
T4im |
because that really messes things up |
| 00:24 |
T4im |
this is much more about being pragmatic than legal questions in my opinion :D |
| 00:24 |
Grandolf |
would you belive me if i saw this exact situation DX |
| 00:25 |
Grandolf |
except one group wants to run it and the other wants it to stay down |
| 00:27 |
T4im |
well, that doesn't sound good |
| 00:29 |
Grandolf |
they use to be good friends too :P |
| 00:29 |
Grandolf |
highlight the word use |
| 00:30 |
BillyS |
Japanese message don't show in chat due to their wierd characters |
| 00:30 |
BillyS |
Is this easily fixed? |
| 00:31 |
BillyS |
I would assume not ... it would probably require all the clients to use a different font |
| 00:44 |
Shara |
Grandolf: Sometimes when you have a dispute like that, it's better not to get involved at all. |
| 01:12 |
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| 07:28 |
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| 09:12 |
VanessaE |
sofar: please close https://github.com/minetest-mods/biome_lib/issues/4 |
| 09:13 |
VanessaE |
(invalid issue, no replies for over a year, video link is dead) |
| 10:09 |
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| 10:11 |
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| 10:18 |
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| 10:20 |
VanessaE |
(not to mention, it's on the wrong fork) |
| 10:25 |
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| 10:56 |
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| 11:17 |
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| 11:34 |
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| 11:35 |
Krock |
hi tenplus1 who isn't here again |
| 11:35 |
T4im |
hi krock |
| 11:35 |
T4im |
:) |
| 11:35 |
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| 11:35 |
Krock |
hi T4im :D |
| 11:36 |
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| 11:39 |
xerox123_ |
!seen tenplus1 |
| 11:39 |
MinetestBot |
xerox123_: tenplus1 was last seen at 2018-11-24 15:38:18 UTC on #minetest-hub |
| 11:42 |
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| 13:04 |
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| 14:59 |
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| 15:00 |
IhrFussel |
If you release 0.4.17.2 or 0.4.18 then PLEASE fix the map stalling |
| 15:01 |
rubenwardy |
when did the problem start? |
| 15:01 |
IhrFussel |
Someething in the MT code allows certain clients (AFAIK only mobile clients with random app names) to make the map STOP loading for everyone, but mods still function as expected |
| 15:03 |
IhrFussel |
Pretty sure it was a few months ago... it's either a rather popular badly programmed app or some kind of bots... but whenever a certain user with a name like "[A-Z][a-z]{1,}[0-9]{3,4}" disconnects everything goes back to normal ... there must be some security hole in the map sending code that allows such a blocking |
| 15:04 |
IhrFussel |
Inventories are affected too then it seems...so map + meta maybe |
| 15:05 |
Krock |
something like slow loris attack? |
| 15:07 |
VanessaE |
you know, I had that problem for a while, too |
| 15:07 |
VanessaE |
eventually it just stopped happening though |
| 15:07 |
VanessaE |
no idea (at the time) why it happened, or what made it stop. |
| 15:08 |
IhrFussel |
VanessaE, it's only some clients that cause it and it only happens on very popular servers mostly... maybe it even takes multiple of these "badly programmed clients" until the stalling occurs... first it slows down map loading and later it stops completely |
| 15:08 |
rubenwardy |
map sometimes stops responding on CTF |
| 15:09 |
rubenwardy |
I wonder if it's something to do with reliable sending or using too much resources on one client? |
| 15:09 |
IhrFussel |
I saw it happening there too...maybe some with that bad app firgured out how to write their own names and connected to it...not sure |
| 15:10 |
VanessaE |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6009 |
| 15:10 |
IhrFussel |
AFAIK these apps (that give a random name) let you type your own but 99% of the users don't know or don't bother to change it |
| 15:11 |
IhrFussel |
I can see if I still have the videos I made for proof |
| 15:12 |
Shara |
I've been having issues with map loading recently as well since activity stepped up a bit on RC... and I've noticed it seems to conincide with certain players joining and leaving as well. |
| 15:12 |
Shara |
I've done checks while it's happening to make sure it's not likely to be people exploring or heavy mesecons use. |
| 15:13 |
T4im |
hm, might be a bug in their forks that causes this; on BuckarooBanzai's server a lot of those mobile users just kept running into the same damn direction every time; jumping of a platform, pretty much all landing in similar areas far off |
| 15:13 |
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| 15:14 |
T4im |
was way too precise to not be a client bug there :p |
| 15:15 |
* T4im |
makes the connection between erranous movement and the slowdown due to mapblock sending requests |
| 15:15 |
Shara |
Random hunch based on the player that I think caused it being able to see my name tag even when I hid it - possibly an app using a pretty old version. |
| 15:16 |
rubenwardy |
nice pixels there |
| 15:16 |
Krock |
that would be 0.4.11 or earlier |
| 15:16 |
ANAND |
That's possible on 0.4.13 too |
| 15:16 |
Shara |
Krock: No, 4.13 I think |
| 15:16 |
Shara |
Grr, ANAND is quick :) |
| 15:16 |
Krock |
quick and correct for the 0. prefix |
| 15:16 |
ANAND |
:P |
| 15:23 |
IhrFussel |
Is it possible to "cut" the sending of mapblocks if it takes too long for the client to respond? |
| 15:27 |
T4im |
well, you could start by checking whether those lags are mapgen caused |
| 15:28 |
T4im |
as in, the clients causing mapgen |
| 15:30 |
Krock |
hm.. there's only one send thread? |
| 15:31 |
rubenwardy |
#7895 |
| 15:31 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7895 -- [WIP] Add luacheck to check builtin by rubenwardy |
| 15:34 |
T4im |
why exclude the mainmenu though? :p i know it's exploding with warnings; but since this isn't in travis, it'd give people the opportunity to fix those :D |
| 15:34 |
T4im |
without failing builds |
| 15:34 |
T4im |
i bet, if you exclude it, it'll never be fixed :x |
| 15:34 |
rubenwardy |
I'm planning on adding it to travis in that PR |
| 15:34 |
rubenwardy |
heh |
| 15:34 |
rubenwardy |
maybe |
| 15:35 |
rubenwardy |
the worst in c55's code is local i for i=1, #thing do |
| 15:35 |
T4im |
:D |
| 15:35 |
rubenwardy |
sapier's code, ie: mainmenu, is like 100s of warnings |
| 15:36 |
rubenwardy |
tbh, most of them are non issues really |
| 15:36 |
T4im |
lemme guess, the profiler, besides its defined top-level global has none? :x |
| 15:36 |
rubenwardy |
there was a single line being too long |
| 15:36 |
T4im |
:o |
| 15:37 |
rubenwardy |
but apart from that, no issues |
| 15:39 |
rubenwardy |
already halved the number of mainmenu issues just be saving some files to remove whitespace, and adding table things to config |
| 15:43 |
T4im |
hmm you might want to consider do-end blocks instead of reassigning variables for clearer scoping |
| 15:43 |
T4im |
the setname/setvalue thing |
| 15:44 |
T4im |
won't make a big difference here though, except for communicating intent |
| 15:47 |
* T4im |
didn't do that when adding linting to mtg :/ |
| 15:51 |
rubenwardy |
setting non-standard global variable _ |
| 15:51 |
rubenwardy |
u wot |
| 15:53 |
T4im |
in item.lua it seems |
| 15:53 |
T4im |
you removed the local _ in front of the for loop |
| 15:55 |
rubenwardy |
this is somewhere else |
| 15:56 |
IhrFussel |
T4im, it#s not mapgen, all of the above posted videos were recorded in an already generated and well-known area |
| 15:57 |
T4im |
IhrFussel: you were in that already generated area; but were the guests? |
| 16:01 |
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| 16:02 |
IhrFussel |
But it's map sending then not generating...clients don't generate map, they only receive it |
| 16:02 |
T4im |
but they can trigger it |
| 16:02 |
IhrFussel |
But if one client generated it in the past then there is nothing to generate anymore |
| 16:03 |
T4im |
theres always someone new to generate |
| 16:03 |
IhrFussel |
Mapgen only triggers once per map lifetime unless you delete mapblocks from the DB |
| 16:03 |
T4im |
something* |
| 16:03 |
IhrFussel |
per mapblock* |
| 16:03 |
T4im |
per chunk i believe, but yes |
| 16:04 |
T4im |
(i.e. 5x5x5 mapblocks iirc) |
| 16:04 |
IhrFussel |
And these areas are 2 years old so not new ... the problem is clients receiving the map...and somehow managing to make map loading stop for everyone |
| 16:04 |
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| 16:04 |
T4im |
the idea here is, that if someone had the clever idea to spawn mobile users into random places in the world, they'd essentially DoS your server |
| 16:05 |
T4im |
or if somehow their movement code is broken and the player teleports into random places, that could happen, too |
| 16:05 |
IhrFussel |
Then NoCheat should kick in AFAIK...let me check |
| 16:08 |
T4im |
no idea what work has been done there in the last years, but as long as the client is in charge of physics, i'd keep worrying about it |
| 16:08 |
IhrFussel |
There are lots of "moved too fast; resetting position" lines but not sure if it's related...it also happens with slow connections |
| 16:08 |
T4im |
does it mention the positions? |
| 16:09 |
IhrFussel |
Nope but it can happen quite a few times per second |
| 16:14 |
IhrFussel |
~ 80,000 lines of that since nov 16 |
| 16:14 |
T4im |
well; certainly enough to check if mapgen starts up the next time you have that issue |
| 16:14 |
T4im |
because mapgen *does* have that effect |
| 16:15 |
T4im |
so at the very least excluding the possibility would be worth it |
| 16:17 |
IhrFussel |
I guess I can add a register_on_mapgen() log entry |
| 16:17 |
T4im |
:) |
| 16:23 |
IhrFussel |
Does MT really allow mapgen to take place at any position even if the player shouldn't be there yet? |
| 16:23 |
rubenwardy |
no |
| 16:24 |
Krock |
kinda, since it generates a defined radius around the player |
| 16:25 |
IhrFussel |
Yes but MT should check if the player could've been at that position first |
| 16:25 |
Krock |
yes, that's what anticheat does |
| 16:25 |
IhrFussel |
And it should abort mapgen if it#s false |
| 16:27 |
IhrFussel |
So I guess the last part isn't implemented |
| 16:27 |
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| 16:27 |
Krock |
hi tenplus1 |
| 16:27 |
tenplus1 |
hi folks, and Krock |
| 16:27 |
Krock |
HAH |
| 16:27 |
tenplus1 |
snap! |
| 16:27 |
T4im |
hi :) |
| 16:27 |
tenplus1 |
ehehe, hi T4im |
| 16:27 |
Krock |
this time. this single time I did it |
| 16:27 |
tenplus1 |
:P |
| 16:29 |
T4im |
the question might very well be if mapgen would be started before or after such a correction; could be an unintented effect |
| 16:29 |
tenplus1 |
? |
| 16:29 |
T4im |
to the conversation before you joined :x |
| 16:30 |
T4im |
abut mobile users bringing mapsending to a halt |
| 16:30 |
tenplus1 |
ahh, it does lag more with mobile users, yeah |
| 16:30 |
IhrFussel |
WAIT |
| 16:30 |
tenplus1 |
hi fussel |
| 16:30 |
IhrFussel |
But mapgen halts mod code correct? AFAIK it lags the whole server |
| 16:31 |
rubenwardy |
no |
| 16:31 |
rubenwardy |
mapgen is on a separate thread |
| 16:31 |
rubenwardy |
it halts mod code when register_on_** is called |
| 16:31 |
tenplus1 |
hi ruben... register_on is used in quite a few mods tho |
| 16:31 |
T4im |
on_mapgen |
| 16:31 |
rubenwardy |
it's only as slow as the code inside the mapgen callback |
| 16:32 |
IhrFussel |
But on my old server machine (Opteron) I had a 1-2 sec lag whenever I generated new map parts... not sure if that could've been caused by a mod |
| 16:33 |
IhrFussel |
And when mapgen runs mapsend cannot run?? |
| 16:34 |
IhrFussel |
The problem is clearly map sending... so it only makes sense if mapgen really blocks any sending of map |
| 16:34 |
IhrFussel |
Hi tenplus1 |
| 16:34 |
tenplus1 |
o/ |
| 16:35 |
T4im |
from my experience it does |
| 16:36 |
IhrFussel |
So it mainly only happens with appname-users, it only happens when many are online and it happens in "steps" (first map gets slower and slower until it halts) ... sounds like some sort of looping to me at least |
| 16:36 |
T4im |
whenever someone is exploring you may end up running against CONTENT_IGNORE nodes |
| 16:36 |
T4im |
or whatever the client is using in that place |
| 16:37 |
T4im |
well; the mapgen idea is just one thing to rule out; could just as well be, that the anticheat itself is the cause |
| 16:37 |
tenplus1 |
I disable anticheat on server |
| 16:37 |
IhrFussel |
AntiCheat happens in the thread where mod code is run no? But mod code runs perfectly fine |
| 16:37 |
T4im |
maybe the client teleports, anticheat teleports back; client teleports again, and again, and again :p |
| 16:37 |
tenplus1 |
and rollback |
| 16:39 |
IhrFussel |
The chat, entities, ingame time/events...they all work and max_lag also doesn't increase |
| 16:56 |
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| 18:06 |
tenplus1 |
laters folks |
| 18:06 |
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| 19:36 |
IhrFussel |
Happened again...so yeah it's definitely ONE specific player who stalls the map... and it doesn't matter if other join or leave only when THAT one user leaves the game loads the map again |
| 19:37 |
IhrFussel |
I couldn't restart yet, but will do so a bit later...then I'll see if the stalling occurs during lots of register_on_generated() callbacks |
| 19:50 |
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| 22:02 |
IhrFussel |
Is player speed calculated server side? Like pos1 -> pos2 = movement speed? |
| 22:02 |
IhrFussel |
I hope MT doesn't trust the client there |
| 22:12 |
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| 23:01 |
GreenDimond |
I have a registered test LBM and it is doing nothing |
| 23:02 |
GreenDimond |
Wait |
| 23:02 |
GreenDimond |
im dumb |
