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IRC log for #minetest-hub, 2018-05-27

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
01:29 Jordach joined #minetest-hub
01:33 Jordach paramat: alright, the mod tracker is experimental and relies on .after like a kitten looking for milk
01:33 Jordach but it does work
01:39 Tmanyo joined #minetest-hub
01:44 Jordach paramat: any idea on how MT handles pitch shifts
01:48 paramat i think it uses the pitch shift ability that comes with openAL
01:48 paramat not sure if it's speed change or pitch shift
01:49 ANAND joined #minetest-hub
01:49 Jordach paramat: in that case, i'll hack something together with uh
01:49 Jordach pygame
01:56 paramat yes a websearch suggests it is actually a simple speed change
02:04 * ANAND has quit (Quit: Leaving)
02:04 ANAND :D
02:07 AndroBuilder joined #minetest-hub
05:28 lumberJ joined #minetest-hub
05:37 ANAND Linking Github accounts to forum accounts should have a verification mechanism; else this is what happens:
05:37 ANAND Forum profile: https://forum.minetest.net/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=21935
05:38 ANAND Linked Github account: http://github.com/PETE
05:49 ANAND joined #minetest-hub
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07:24 nerzhul ANAND it's just a link on phpbb
07:25 ANAND nerzhul, I understand, but is it possible to verify that a user's linked Github acc. is really theirs?
07:26 ANAND Otherwise, people just put their names in every field of their forum profile without thinking about what they actually are... :P
07:28 lumberJ we should also verify if he actually is employed as a pvp global elite :D
07:28 ANAND XD
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08:22 menace joined #minetest-hub
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10:46 Jordach joined #minetest-hub
11:10 Krock joined #minetest-hub
11:33 Jordach Krock: o/
11:34 Krock o/ Jordach
11:34 Krock instant reply
11:34 Jordach so i uh
11:34 Jordach have a working minetest.serialize decoder built inside love2d
11:40 Fixer but why?
11:41 Jordach Fixer: to edit these pseudo tracker files
11:41 Jordach managing tables by hand is cancer
11:45 Jordach Krock: https://i.imgur.com/GrNR45R.png
11:48 Krock not sure if it's MacOS or riced Linux
11:49 longerstaff13 mac
12:13 xerox123 joined #minetest-hub
12:32 Fixer Buttons, pressure plates and trapdoors / Now have separate textures for all 6 types of wood.
12:32 Fixer lel
12:39 xerox123 hello o/
12:40 ANAND o/ xerox123
12:52 Jordach joined #minetest-hub
13:05 Fixer \o
13:18 Jordach >runs greadlink -f ogg
13:18 Jordach >gets file path
13:18 Jordach >tries path in love2d: doesn't exist
13:19 Jordach 🤔
13:19 Jordach oddly enough the same path works with the IO libraries
13:27 Fixer *,,,,,,*
13:37 Fixer daconcepts 30008 not announcing, as usual
13:42 IhrFussel joined #minetest-hub
13:42 IhrFussel Server owners: Do you allow "bad jokes" on your server(s)? I mean jokes that could be racist, immoral etc
14:00 Deknos left #minetest-hub
14:33 Jordach joined #minetest-hub
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14:39 IhrFussel Is there a way to "imitate" the red flash screen when taking damage? Maybe checking if player pos + 1 is air and then replace with something red plus removing after 0.5 sec?
14:41 IhrFussel Since I use my own custom HP system in 0.4.17 there is obviously no red flash when the player takes damage from a player for example..just HP decrease and sound plays...but players who have their sound off might not notice the HP change and suddenly are dead
14:42 Shara I'd be really happy not to get any red flash myself, and I don't use sound...
14:43 Shara I've always disliked screening changing colour when damage is taken... and I tend to note damage from the hearts directly, so it doesn't help me
14:43 BillyS Couldn't the red flash be done by adding and subtracting a image from the HUD?
14:43 entuland force the players to have a very thick fog and use set_sky() to change the color, it should affect the fog as well :P
14:46 IhrFussel Shara, I could make it optional but I want players to visually see that they have been attacked by something by default
14:47 IhrFussel Which MT already does but only when using the (lame) 20 HP system
14:47 entuland kidding apart, isn't there a way to add an entity that follows the player and have it cast light or something?
14:47 IhrFussel In 0.4.17* (in 0.5.0 max HP of players can be set to anything)
14:53 rdococ IhrFussel: decrease player HP by 1, then reset it to 20 half a second later?
14:54 rdococ although if you get hit 40 times a second then you'll die to the lame 20 HP system
14:54 Krock IhrFussel, try 0.5.0-dev?
14:54 Krock altert: intended provocation
14:54 Krock -t
14:54 rdococ an altert is short for alternative poptart
14:55 Krock wouldn't that be altart?
14:55 rdococ well, it's an alternate poptart so it wouldn't be spelt the same
14:56 rdococ that or it's a word in alternative English called "Ancliskh" where e and a have swapped roles and c acts as g
14:56 rdococ while the 'alternative', which in Ancliskh would be 'eltarnetiva', is added by English speakers referring to Ancliskh popterts
14:56 rdococ therefore, alterts
14:58 Krock ok
15:08 IhrFussel Krock, I cannot use 0.5.0 on a serious server so I need to find other workarounds
15:10 rdococ using 0.5.0 right now is a bit of a mixed bag but I think it would be okay for a serious server. pros: (1) no mobile players that use ripoff clients and (2) new features, cons: (1) possible bugs and glitches
15:10 * rubenwardy sighs
15:10 rubenwardy time to add meta packages to contentdb!
15:10 rubenwardy and break all the dependencies
15:10 rubenwardy fun fun
15:11 Krock yay
15:11 Krock *Status Quo and Beach Boys plays*
15:11 rdococ metametapackage that installs a bunch of metapackages
15:12 IhrFussel rdococ, 0.1% max use 0.5.0 as client right now ... I'm not crazy
15:13 Krock 0.1% max use 0.4.17-dev. reason: not released
15:14 IhrFussel But luckily 0.4.17 is compatible with 0.4.11 - 0.4.16
15:15 rubenwardy KILL THE COMPATIBILITY
15:15 rdococ but 0.5.0 has many new features that servers could take advantage of
15:15 rubenwardy let's turn off the server list for 0.4.x, force clients and servers to update
15:15 rubenwardy MAKE MINETEST GREAT AGAIN
15:16 rdococ an actual minetest donald trump would want to ban all versions above 0.2.x to go back to the good old days
15:24 Fixer GDPR MEMES
15:25 Krock please deep try
15:25 Krock s/t/f/
15:25 xerox123 We've updated our privacy policy.
15:26 BillyS How do I make minetest reboot on a server crash?
15:26 xerox123 write a script
15:26 BillyS That does what?
15:26 BillyS Checks if it's running every second?
15:27 IhrFussel BillyS, while true; do minetestserver; done
15:27 BillyS ...huh
15:27 BillyS Never thought of that
15:27 Krock BillyS, put minetestserver in a loop
15:28 BillyS thx
15:28 IhrFussel Maybe add a few secs sleep depending on what you need to do to cleanup files for example
15:28 BillyS Yeah
15:29 xerox123 I use this: https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/zQKxWtFKJH/
15:31 BillyS I think I'll set up a server
15:32 xerox123 or set up minetest as a service
15:32 xerox123 but that's probably more work than you're looking for
15:32 BillyS Hmm . . . I want a map with small cliffs, but not strange twisted mountains like v7 has. Which mapgen should I use for that?
15:32 BillyS Maybe valleys?
15:33 xerox123 does valleys have hill?
15:33 BillyS Yes
15:34 BillyS It has hills and rivers
15:34 xerox123 looks good
15:34 xerox123 Idd enjoy playng on it
15:35 BillyS My only complaint about it is that the biomes are too darn big
15:36 Fixer rubenwardy: move into Canada ;)
15:36 BillyS Ah, found a good seed
15:36 Fixer BUT HAVE MINETEST>NET UPDATE ITS PRIVACY POLICY?
15:37 xerox123 WAS THERE EVEN ONE IN THE FIRST PLACE?
15:37 Fixer is not server located in EU?
15:37 rubenwardy doesn't matter where the server is
15:38 Fixer rubenwardy: if it serves EU citizens - it should comply with GDPR
15:38 rubenwardy yeah, exactly
15:38 BillyS My EULA: "By using this site, you agree not to sue me"
15:39 BillyS It's as simple as that. :P
15:40 Jordach joined #minetest-hub
15:55 Fixer o/ o/ o/ MMTGGA \o \o \o
15:56 Fixer wonder if that nodedef metasmth PR (4 parts) is going to be revived
15:59 BillyS Hmm
16:00 BillyS When creating a new world via the terminal, in which file do I specify the seed?
16:00 BillyS world.mt?
16:01 BillyS xerox123: ^
16:02 BillyS Hmm . . it can be done with fixed_map_seed in minetest.conf, I see . . . but I just want it to effect one world
16:04 BillyS Oh, I guess I just have to run the server with the --config option
16:04 BillyS Der.
16:08 rdococ Hm, a video game console could give the user a set of 3 or 4 rectangles and ask the user "which one looks most like a square?" to match the screen's aspect ratio
16:09 IhrFussel Was it always like that? Tools with high full puch interval move slowly back after punching?
16:09 IhrFussel punch*
16:13 BillyS I think so
16:13 BillyS I remember watching my sword in PvP to see when I should strike again
16:15 rdococ hm, wasn't fully aware that minetest had such a thing
16:15 IhrFussel BillyS, then one of my long time players just noticed it...and me too by the way xP
16:16 BillyS xD
16:16 rdococ I will keep that in mind when I play CTF
16:16 IhrFussel I witnessed it with the battle axe from the castle mod ... seems to have 2 secs punch interval or so
16:17 Fixer minetest swords have 1 sec cool down period...
16:17 Fixer iirc
16:18 BillyS Sounds about right
16:18 Shara Though stone has longer. But I might be imagining that
16:18 Shara Thought*
16:21 IhrFussel Wooden and stone swords have a longer interval
16:21 Fixer i've played since 2011 and that cooldown thing was smth unexpected for me :D
16:22 Jordach >wood has a long interval
16:23 Jordach bitch it's a wooden stick with a pointy bit
16:23 IhrFussel Actually stone swords have a LONGER interval
16:24 IhrFussel From what I can tell
16:24 BillyS Jordach, that's a spear
16:24 BillyS a wooden sword is basically a sharp club
16:24 Jordach BillyS: more like a stake
16:24 BillyS Heh, fair point
16:24 Jordach vampires love "steak"
16:24 BillyS xD
16:25 IhrFussel Wooden swords have 1.0 interval, stone 1.2
16:26 BillyS Hmm, https://github.com/NathanSalapat/survival looks interesting
16:33 rubenwardy would anyone like to be an editor on the contentdb?
16:34 rubenwardy you'll be able to add and edit packages on behalf of other people
16:34 rubenwardy and also be responsible for approving new packages / releases / screenshots / etc
16:39 BillyS I am not aware of what the contentdb is. :P
16:39 BillyS Mt related, I suppose?
16:40 Krock BillyS, baked fresh feature for 0.5.0 which replaces the old mod store
16:40 rubenwardy https://content.minetest.net
16:40 rubenwardy doesn't replace the old mod store, the old mod store is fully dead and removed
16:41 rubenwardy plus this has waaayyyy more features
16:41 BillyS Ah
16:41 Krock it replaces it functionally
16:41 Krock as in: browsing, downloading, updating and deleting mods
16:41 rubenwardy sure
16:41 Krock and also texture packs and games AFAIK
16:42 rubenwardy games > mods
16:42 rubenwardy wish more were made
16:45 rubenwardy argh, this is painful
16:48 rubenwardy I made the first mod db anyway, before moddb
16:48 rubenwardy it was in PHP and sucked
17:12 Krock erm.. manipulative poll question
17:13 * Shara needs to finish a game sometime
17:13 rubenwardy lol
17:13 rubenwardy changed
17:14 rubenwardy I don't mean to be manipulative, just want to see how important the github requirement is
17:15 Krock salted the poll results a bit to make it more secure
17:15 Krock *cough*
17:16 rubenwardy wait what
17:16 Krock I think most of the people just don't know about it yet
17:16 rubenwardy true
17:16 Krock I was talking about my three rather unserious poll votes
17:16 rubenwardy I made it because I want to see how many people can't sign up due to the gh thing
17:17 rubenwardy so I know whether I can afford to leave it a few weeks
17:18 Krock is feature-completeness a requirement for your project? If so, then I wouldn't rush too much with adding more mods there until it's in beta/ready stage
17:18 Krock because re-adding everything due to a necessary restructure of the database might not be wanted
17:18 rubenwardy it's already in beta
17:19 rubenwardy there's just the dependency issue
17:19 Krock I see
17:19 rubenwardy which I'm prioriting over other things
17:19 rubenwardy https://github.com/minetest/contentdb/pull/78
17:21 nerzhul rubenwardy is there any signing ?
17:21 rubenwardy doing DELETE FROM dependencies; isn't too bad due to the job to reimport them
17:21 rubenwardy no
17:21 rubenwardy it's HTTPS for content.minetest.net
17:21 rubenwardy and it's linked to a git commit on github
17:21 nerzhul can be nice to have a sha256 to sign the archive
17:22 rubenwardy no thanks
17:22 rubenwardy :P
17:22 nerzhul how do you verify integrity ?
17:22 rubenwardy HTTPS
17:22 nerzhul https doesn't guarantee integrity lol
17:22 nerzhul it just guarantee the trafic is encrypted by a random certificate provided by an authority
17:23 rubenwardy the only issue is if someone maliciously makes a commit with the same hash as one previously approved
17:24 nerzhul it seems MT has two worlds, one for strong and too strongs things like CSM, but installing random mods without signing which can be altered doesn't seems a priority
17:24 rubenwardy and given that most people won't be checking releases that much, I don't think it's much of a problem
17:24 nerzhul how did you do mod upgrades/rollback ?
17:24 rubenwardy releases
17:24 nerzhul it's impossible to have rolling upgrade on mods if the owner wants ?
17:25 rubenwardy there needs to be a release for each thing, which will be automated in future
17:25 nerzhul i see
17:25 nerzhul and how do you upgrade client side ?
17:25 nerzhul the github part is not my concern here
17:25 rubenwardy unlike most package repos, this is served over HTTPS so archives don't need to be signed
17:25 rubenwardy as HTTPS provides the signing
17:26 nerzhul https doesn't sign the package
17:26 nerzhul https encrypt the network connection
17:26 rubenwardy means it can't be modified
17:26 rubenwardy so it does
17:26 nerzhul if you have for example an account hacked on github, client will download rogue mods and mod store doesn't permit to block that
17:26 nerzhul because there is no signing
17:27 rubenwardy if you want every mod author to PGP sign every package, then that can be added but will be very annoying
17:27 nerzhul i didn't mean pgp
17:27 rubenwardy and you can PGP sign commits anyway
17:27 nerzhul a single sha256sum of the release registered on the mod store is sufficient
17:27 nerzhul a release don't contain any git history
17:27 nerzhul then the commit signing and integrity is not a point here
17:28 rubenwardy it points to a specific commit hash
17:28 rubenwardy it would be better to have a checksum than signiing it
17:28 nerzhul but you will download a tag, not a git hash i think non
17:28 nerzhul no ?
17:28 rubenwardy no
17:28 rubenwardy it's commit based
17:28 rubenwardy it links to   github.com/user/repo/archive/COMMITHASH.zip
17:28 nerzhul how end user know if there is an update or he should downgrade due to issues ?
17:28 rubenwardy release ID
17:29 nerzhul which component have this ? mod store ?
17:29 rubenwardy yeah, it's a row in the mod store database
17:29 rubenwardy also, content db
17:29 rubenwardy nothing's for sale
17:29 nerzhul if you use releases on github you are tag based
17:29 nerzhul it should be synced
17:29 rubenwardy it's contentdb releases
17:29 rubenwardy not github releases
17:30 rubenwardy the only way the contentdb will ever use github release or tags will be as a webhook trigger
17:30 rubenwardy to automatically make a release
17:30 rubenwardy I provided the design for this months ago, bth
17:30 rubenwardy *btw
17:31 rubenwardy the only vulnerability here is if they abuse the insecurity of git hashes collisions
17:32 rubenwardy and it would be better to have a more secure archive hash for that than signing
17:33 nerzhul then if i go to the GH i won't find any metadata about the contentdb history it's not good
17:34 nerzhul git hash collision doesn't happen any more they are in sha256 since some time
17:34 rubenwardy well, I could make it automatically create tags if the user wishes
17:34 rubenwardy but there's more than just github
17:34 nerzhul webhook trigger is not needed, when someone register a release on the mod store, verify if release is prsent and github
17:35 nerzhul it's the only pre-requisite
17:35 rubenwardy also, you can create cdb releases from a github tag
17:35 rubenwardy it just points to a commit rather than the tag
17:35 nerzhul yeah i understand, but it's less painful to register a tagged version on the mod store, and you fetch data from GH release :)
17:36 nerzhul many stores works like this
17:36 rubenwardy have you tried it?
17:36 nerzhul you product ?
17:36 rubenwardy to create a release you currently do   Create Release -> enter name -> enter tag or branch -> create
17:36 rubenwardy it uses the github API to get the commit hash
17:37 rubenwardy and then it waits to be approved by someone
17:37 nerzhul i hope "someone" has time for so many mods :p
17:37 rubenwardy well, that's where it falls through
17:38 rubenwardy I guess there's no real verification that the package owner also owns the download
17:38 rubenwardy so as well as the package author you have to trust all editors and moderators and admins
17:39 rubenwardy which can be resolved by only allowing the package owner to make a release
17:39 rubenwardy but then what about Jeija and people that have left the community?
17:39 Shara well, if you are not trusting the ones running a thing, better not to use the thing at all anyway
17:40 rubenwardy I provided the design months ago anyway, you should have raised any concerns then
17:40 Shara and the need for someone to approve packages is a good thing
17:42 rubenwardy I should probably add an audit log anyway, for security sensitive stuff
17:43 Shara Logs are always good
18:17 nerzhul rubenwardy, i was absent if i remember, the global idea is good, but some points are to be improved
18:18 IhrFussel If a player has too many tamed mobs in one area MT will delete them no matter if they are flagged as removable or not since MT doesn't know about "owner"
18:18 IhrFussel At least that's what I assume right now cause mutiple players told me their mobs disappeared
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18:21 rubenwardy fwiw, I'd like MT to have support for signed packages
18:21 rubenwardy that would make it possible to show a dialog with CSM authors and mod names
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19:11 paramat BillyS small cliffs would be mgv6, but that doesn't have the same rich variety of biomes of the other mapgens. to avoid weird mountains avoid mgv5 or mgv7, mgvalleys or mgcarpathian. you can make biomes smaller btw
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20:28 Fixer "Mystery Donor Pledges $1 Million To The GNOME Foundation" REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
20:28 Fixer "Jade: New Linux Desktop Built On Python, HTML5 & JavaScript" oh g*d
20:30 Jordach >python
20:30 Jordach Fixer: no worries
20:30 Jordach we have PyQt5
20:30 Fixer i think they went into "Challenge Accepted" mode
20:31 Fixer when writing in assembler is too boring, so instead you make it so horrific it becomes a masterpiece
20:34 Jordach Fixer: already beaten to the punch lmao
20:34 Jordach https://www.os-js.org
20:35 Fixer "OS.js is a JavaScript web desktop implementation for your browser with a fully-fledged window manager, Application APIs, GUI toolkits and filesystem abstraction"
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21:22 rdococ > <Fixer> "Jade: New Linux Desktop Built On Python, HTML5 & JavaScript" oh g*d
21:22 rdococ wait
21:22 rdococ what
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21:56 longerstaff13 I just found an innapropraitely named server on the list
21:57 longerstaff13 inappropriately*
21:57 Mr_Pardison_ mhm.
21:57 longerstaff13 "hameer FUCK server"
22:06 BillyS Hmm, I know a player nammed hamerr
22:06 BillyS *hameer
22:06 BillyS He was on LS-W a while ago
22:07 longerstaff13 yeah BillyS
22:08 sfan5 longerstaff13: will disappear from the list soon-ish
22:08 longerstaff13 kk
22:08 longerstaff13 thanks
22:17 rubenwardy https://content.minetest.net/metapackages/farming/
22:17 rubenwardy hmmm, what could that be
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