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IRC log for #minetest-hub, 2018-04-15

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Time Nick Message
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07:38 rdococ What does kalite taste like?
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08:19 Topic for #minetest-hub is now Keep offtopic short | Avoid spam with /umode +R | http://hub.minetest.net/ | Logs: http://irc.minetest.net/minetest-hub/
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09:22 Peppy hi
09:24 * Peppy makes more coffee for 0.4.17 packagers
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09:27 Fixer "voxpance"
09:27 Fixer "minespance"
09:27 Fixer wth is this...
09:27 Fixer https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/2077#issuecomment-381379197
09:27 Fixer "communismcraft" WHAT?
09:28 * Fixer is disgusted
09:29 lumberJ i vote cubedump :P
09:29 lumberJ sounds a bit painful, but amusing
09:29 Fixer toilet inspired
09:43 lumberJ actually its a pretty accurate description of mtg
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10:13 rdococ Fixer: lol
10:14 rdococ I don't think the problem is necessarily MTG's name, I think the engine's name should be changed
10:15 rdococ 'Minetest' sounds like a name for a Minecraft clone, or at least a game that is similar in gameplay or style but less developed. That's essentially what MTG is, but not the engine.
10:17 rdococ I think that for the engine name, maybe something that combines 'lua' + 'voxel'? In the meantime, maybe we should use "Minetest Engine" to refer to the engine until we/the devs/whatever decide on a new one.
10:20 lumberJ several people comment that it sounds like a clone or underdeveloped due to the name having 'test' in it, but i've always thought of it in the sense of a challenge
10:20 rdococ What would MTG be testing of you though?
10:22 lumberJ creativity? building skills? endurance to explore new landscapes?
10:23 rdococ Not really. Unless there's actually something ingame you're testing your skills against (say, mobs or even something simple like a time limit) it's not much of a challenge.
10:23 rdococ To explore new landscapes all you really need to do is to avoid falling and hold W.
10:24 rdococ Minetest Engine can do so much more than Minetest Game, and the name "Minetest" or even "Minetest Engine" doesn't really reflect that.
10:25 rdococ And even if we renamed MTG so that "Minetest" for the engine's name doesn't suggest that MTG is all it has to offer, you still have the problem that the name sounds like an unfinished Minecraft clone.
10:26 lumberJ i guess i just don't really see that as a problem
10:26 rdococ Yes, but the main problem with that is that other people see the problem and are put off the engine because of it.
10:27 lumberJ i also don't see that as a problem :P
10:27 rdococ lol
10:27 lumberJ if it was a profit driven project, then yeah
10:27 rdococ I suppose you have a point in that if nobody's making profit off Minetest, then the size of the playerbase doesn't matter as much, but I think it should still be something we should consider trying to increase.
10:28 lumberJ but in the realm of FOSS, if people are too focused on names and appearances to look under the hood, they are sort of the problem themselves
10:28 lumberJ well, that is the constant debate, quality vs quantity
10:28 lumberJ some say you have to start with quantity to find the quality
10:29 lumberJ i personally think its more important to focus on building a quality community and that will perpetuate itself
10:30 lumberJ honestly, i don't care about the name, or if it changes.
10:31 lumberJ i care more about having a fun, flexible platform with a nice (or at least tolerable :P) community
10:32 rdococ Fair enough, I suppose.
10:32 lumberJ but i can see the point of view of people that want a name change. I say put up a good suggestion :)
10:33 lumberJ otherwise, it gets a bit old mulling on how bad the name is
10:33 lumberJ i still vote for cubedump :D
10:37 rdococ My vote is to change the name of the Minetest Engine, not Game, to LuaVoxel, although that might be a tad too generic.
10:37 rdococ On the other hand, MTE (the engine) has enough features that you can create a game that is essentially nothing like MTG or Minecraft apart from the fact that it takes place on a voxel grid.
10:42 rdococ Hm, on a somewhat unrelated topic, is there a way to prevent mesecons from diagonally powering a node?
10:42 rdococ I'm creating a 'logiblox' mod and don't want mesecons levers from below the mesecon receiver block to power it.
10:44 rdococ Aha, mesecon.rules.flat.
10:44 rdococ I hope that works for effectors.
10:53 Fixer "communismcraft", btw, some dude on beta server made a communism town, with gulag as prominent feature
11:03 rdococ How about a server divided into red and blue lands each with their own policies and politics?
11:03 rdococ If you want you could throw in more colors.
11:03 rdococ You'd have the Communist Lands of +XCoordinateia, and the Capitalist country of US-X
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11:13 IhrFussel What could this error mean? "Runtime error from mod '*builtin*' in callback on_chat_message(): /usr/local/share/minetest/builtin/game/chatcommands.lua:98: invalid pattern capture"
11:14 IhrFussel At the time of the crash there were Japanese people on my server, that's all I know
11:16 rdococ I'll take a look at that line of code
11:17 IhrFussel rdococ, it won't be in your chatcommands.lua..the affected line is "if bcread:find(cmd.." ") == nil then"
11:17 rdococ Ah.
11:17 rdococ Do you know what bcread is?
11:18 IhrFussel Yes, I have an external bot on my server and bcread is the existing external bot commands that exist...and I told MT to read the bcread contents if the command is not part of the engine and if the entered command matches one of the bot's then it should execute the external command
11:20 rdococ The only two things I could see happen is that either 'bcread' contained Japanese characters, and that messed up :find for some reason, or 'cmd' contained them which would probably be more likely to mess up :find
11:20 rdococ That, or the bug is nothing to do with Japanese characters and is something entirely different
11:28 IhrFussel rdococ, I asked in #lua and they say it's likely caused by Japanese characters or Unicode in general ... and since the user input for "cmd" var is allowed to be anything but a space  ]
11:28 IhrFussel <IhrFussel> cmd is user input that could be anything but a space ([^ ]+) I think MT's command check includes Japanese chars
11:31 sfan5 you should use the variant of :find that doesn't do patterns
11:33 IhrFussel sfan5, but is there a reason to allow everything but a space as command name? Couldn't that be a security risk?
11:33 sfan5 no idea
11:35 rdococ Unless the user input is being fed into the parameter of :find() then I don't think there would be
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11:41 Tenplus1 hi folks
11:46 rdococ Eleven is here, now let's wait for twelve!
11:46 Tenplus1 heh, hi rdococ
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12:03 Tenplus1 hi Jordach
12:04 Jordach beep
12:36 rdococ I'm working on a logiblox mod that's basically my trigger mod but more survival-friendly and doesn't require a special tool
12:36 rdococ I'm not sure what crafting ingredient I should use, though - preferably an ore or metal that doesn't have any uses yet, is reasonably rare (more common than mese, maybe less so than iron) and is already used in a popular mod
12:37 Tenplus1 bronze ?
12:37 Tenplus1 would give it a good use
12:39 rdococ I suppose, but bronze is already kinda useful as armor and tools until you find mese
12:39 Tenplus1 yeh, armor and tools but nothing else...  would be handy to give it another few good uses
12:39 Tenplus1 fill in the gaps
12:39 Tenplus1 :)
12:40 rdococ True, I suppose
12:41 shivajiva did you see this last night https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3jege0p0dQ ?
12:51 Tenplus1 bbl
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13:14 Tenplus1 back
13:28 rdococ forward
13:28 Tenplus1 sideways through the multiverse
13:29 Tenplus1 o.O wonder if I could make a Discworld library that teleports the player to another library somewhere in the world without them knowing :D  L-space
13:34 shivajiva build the destination library upside down :')
13:35 Tenplus1 ehehe, and watching the player come out to a totally new area of map would be funny
13:37 rdococ I have an idea for a tesseract node. It would be part of a mod which adds multiple dimensions, and the basic idea is that the tesseract would appear in the same position in all dimensions when activated.
13:37 shivajiva F5 allows them to see where they were shifted unfortunately
13:37 rdococ For example, if a tesseract was at (0, 30, 0) and you deleted it in the overworld, it would disappear in every other realm as well.
13:38 Tenplus1 sounds good, tesseracts are interesting things
13:38 rdococ The idea is that the different realms are essentially three-dimensional 'sheets' overlaid on top of eachother in a stack the size of one node in the fourth dimension, and the tesseract being a 4D object is embedded into every stack.
13:38 Tenplus1 +100
13:39 Tenplus1 kinda like the book "The Long Earth"...  finding a way to step sideways into the next/previous layer of the world
13:39 Tenplus1 all with slight differences :D
13:40 rdococ Then there would be some way to rotate the tesseract (preferably in increments of 180 degrees, so that you don't end up in a weird position where you're supposed to be seeing many different realms at once, which may be difficult to do). If you are on or inside the tesseract when it rotates, you will enter a different realm.
13:40 Tenplus1 that's gonna be a challenging mod :D
13:41 rdococ That, or the tesseract would serve as a node in which mechanisms from different universes could connect - sending a mesecon signal into one would allow mesecon wires from other realms to receive it, for example.
13:42 Tenplus1 the tersseract could work as a world anchor
13:42 rdococ I was thinking of that too.
13:42 rdococ Not sure how that would work, though.
13:43 rdococ Also, you'd see different 3D cross-sections of the tesseract depending on which realm you're in.
13:44 Tenplus1 hrmmmmmm
13:45 rdococ I don't know how possible this is with the current modding system but if the tesseract's mapblock is loaded in one realm, maybe it should be force-loaded in others too.
13:46 Tenplus1 could forceload them no probs, but at what cost to lag/server time
13:46 rdococ True.
13:47 Tenplus1 maybe once placed a tesseract could forceload all the respective areas to pre-load and set the tesseract node, then close on minetest.after() when set
13:48 rdococ Another idea I had was qubits. They would be nodes representing superpositions of values until sent a mesecon signal, then they would collapse. Additionally, qubits could also be entangled, meaning that if one qubit in the entangled pair was measured, the others would automatically collapse too.
13:48 Tenplus1 heh, mt made quantum computer :)
13:49 Tenplus1 could call the server "Skynet"
13:50 rdococ Each qubit node that is created would have a separate, randomly generated identification number. Entangled qubits would have the same ID. When an ID collapses, the nodes that are known to have that ID also collapse.
13:50 rdococ This ID would be hidden from players ingame, however.
13:51 Tenplus1 what would there use be though ?
13:51 rdococ Hm.
13:51 rdococ Well, performing operations on qubits might be difficult as quantum logic gates can act... weirdly, sometimes.
13:53 Tenplus1 yeah, when watched
14:38 aerozoic hi Tenplus1
14:38 Tenplus1 hi aerozoic
14:39 aerozoic Hey i heard a rumor that your mob rabbits cause lag? You ever heard that?
14:40 Tenplus1 nope, not heard of that one...   we placed 100+ rabbits in the lucky arena and let them runaway form players, then palced 3x wolves to run after and eat them all... no lag
14:40 aerozoic XD
14:41 aerozoic Welp i just heard it from a player but they just heard it from somebody else, so just a silly rumor i guess.
14:42 Tenplus1 heh
14:48 Tenplus1 no issues filed under api or animals, dunno what may have happened to the original player
14:52 aerozoic +1 MT Skynet! LOL
14:52 Fixer tall grass slow downs player
14:52 Fixer thinking_emoji
14:52 Tenplus1 o/ fixer
14:52 Fixer hi Tenplus1
15:12 Tenplus1 brb
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15:19 rdococ Who is 4w from github?
15:25 tenplus1 pie mod updated with fix for hbhunger
15:31 rdococ ?
15:33 rdococ Tastes delicious.
15:33 tenplus1 :P
15:33 tenplus1 so many cakes
15:33 rdococ My logiblox mod is meant for both creative and survival. In survival I want players to be able to get it before they get mese, luacontrollers and can basically play logical god on their circuits.
15:34 rdococ So crafting recipes will probably involve steel or bronze.
15:34 rdococ Or maybe copper/tin; they don't have much use in vanilla MTG other than crafting bronze.
15:36 tenplus1 :P
15:38 rdococ Logiblox wire will probably be crafted with 6 copper ingots. Five in a cross shape + then one in the bottom right corner .
15:41 rdococ Decided to go with tin
15:41 rdococ Now for the inverters (aka NOT gates)..
15:41 tenplus1 gotta find more uses for the non-standard ores
15:43 rdococ Tin is only useful at the moment in MTG for getting bronze, isn't often given uses in mods unlike copper, and when you use it to craft bronze you don't even need that much
15:45 tenplus1 I supopse tin can be used for cans and batteries in technic maybe...  also cheap tin buckets
15:47 IhrFussel joined #minetest-hub
15:47 tenplus1 wb fussel
15:48 rdococ Also, at the moment, logiblox requires mesecon levers and buttons, doors and pistons
15:48 rdococ So maybe this wouldn't work after all
15:48 IhrFussel Thanks and hi =) ... I just installed Sophos Anti Virus on my PC ... Not sure if it's needed though
15:49 tenplus1 windows or linux fussel ?
15:49 IhrFussel Xubuntu 16.04 ... but i read that there *are* viruses for Linux and although the chance to get one is very slim
15:50 tenplus1 true, you'd need to download something that you dont know what it is and run it and give it permission
15:50 tenplus1 have never ran a virus tool for linux
15:50 longerstaff13-m joined #minetest-hub
15:50 tenplus1 hi longer
15:51 IhrFussel Sophos is a very large program (500 MB) xP
15:51 tenplus1 and it'll slow your system down while using it
15:52 IhrFussel My most fears are with websites since I click lots of them every day
15:53 tenplus1 most browsers are sandboxed and dont have access to system files
15:53 tenplus1 you still have to run and give permission for it to do anything major
15:54 tenplus1 ClamAV is a good alternative that has you manually check when needed instead of taking up resources by running constantly
15:55 tenplus1 https://www.howtogeek.com/135392/htg-explains-why-you-dont-need-an-antivirus-on-linux-and-when-you-do/
16:10 rdococ When cows jump over the moon they go there to replenish the stores of cheese they have on it
16:11 tenplus1 cheesy mooon biome :D
16:14 rubenwardy !title https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14340
16:14 rubenwardy ~title
16:14 ShadowBot 14340 – Allowing detaching tab from dropdown terminal with only one tab
16:14 rubenwardy where
16:15 rubenwardy where's MinetestBot? :O
16:15 tenplus1 hey ruben... it went off to the bathroom
16:17 rubenwardy GTK is disgusting
16:17 * tenplus1 never did like gtk, the messed it up after gtk2
16:17 tenplus1 qt5 is the way to go
16:17 rubenwardy yeah
16:17 rubenwardy how OO is QT?
16:17 tenplus1 OO ?
16:17 Dargod joined #minetest-hub
16:17 tenplus1 hi Dargod
16:18 tenplus1 OO = eye opening ?
16:18 rubenwardy object oriented :P
16:18 tenplus1 ehehehehe
16:19 tenplus1 devs prefer it to gtk, easier to use
16:19 rdococ holostorage mod seems to have a bug where I can consistently replace items in my inventory
16:19 tenplus1 erk
16:20 rdococ it's still a WIP mod, so I'm okay with it
16:20 rdococ but it isn't a bug you'd want in a final release
16:21 tenplus1 yeah, we've had too many free item bugs before
16:22 rdococ Actually, the item just gets removed as opposed to replaced
16:22 rdococ So it doesn't even help
16:22 tenplus1 ohh, lost items are worse
16:23 longerstaff13-m Hey tenplus1
16:23 tenplus1 o/
16:24 * tenplus1 got a new idea to replace player_monoids for speed/gravity/jump
16:25 IcyDiamond joined #minetest-hub
16:25 tenplus1 hi Icy
16:34 rubenwardy o/
16:34 Dargod joined #minetest-hub
16:34 tenplus1 wb
16:35 rubenwardy IcyDiamond: welcome!
16:35 IcyDiamond Hello. I have been invited, apparently.
16:35 rubenwardy This is a friendly channel for contributors, it's intented for meta discussion
16:35 IcyDiamond Alright, sounds cool!
16:35 Shara Hi IcyDiamond, and welcome :)
16:35 rubenwardy but gets used for offtopic and stuff that should probably be in #minetest
16:35 tenplus1 hi shara
16:35 Shara Hi ten :D
16:36 Shara (and... everyone else :P)
16:36 rubenwardy this channel is basically intended to be the bridge between #minetest-dev and #minetest, but is also a friendly disciussion place
16:36 rubenwardy https://hub.minetest.net/info
16:37 rdococ Hm, I was thinking of creating a simple crafting furnace which would be used for tools such as steel and bronze
16:37 IcyDiamond So, I can ask here about my modding problems?
16:37 tenplus1 yeah
16:37 rdococ Then again, I should probably sort through my tesseract and qubit ideas first
16:37 shivajiva Hi Shara, welcome IcyDiamond
16:37 Mr_Pardison joined #minetest-hub
16:37 tenplus1 wb mister
16:38 Mr_Pardison hai 2 u2
16:38 Jordach joined #minetest-hub
16:38 tenplus1 wb Jordach
16:38 IcyDiamond Okay here goes. Say I have a custom crafting system and I checked the groups of the ingredients. If the ingredient itself is a group, do I have to do some sort of string parsing or is there an "universal" minetest.get_item_group that gets group for both group: names and names of items?
16:39 Mr_Pardison rubenwardy: ^
16:39 rubenwardy not sure what you mean
16:39 Shara Mr_Pardison: you know others of us might be able to answer, right? :P
16:39 rubenwardy like a thing called food:milk which is also in the milk group?
16:40 tenplus1 group:food_milk even
16:40 rubenwardy well yeah, that's the better group
16:40 tenplus1 lolol
16:40 Shara :D
16:40 Mr_Pardison ik but my system is on autopilot right now (college application financial aid stuff)
16:40 IcyDiamond I don't know how to better explain this, sorry.
16:41 tenplus1 icy, check the craftingguide mod cause it does group checks and pulls in a group item for the recipe involved... might help
16:41 tenplus1 https://github.com/minetest-mods/craftguide
16:46 IcyDiamond How do I get the node being right-clicked when on_place is called on an item
16:48 tenplus1 explain usage ?
16:48 IcyDiamond pointed_thing.under is the position?
16:48 tenplus1 yes, pointed_thing.above is facing
16:49 IcyDiamond tenplus1: It's a tool that replaces a node based on a table of groups and what they're replaced by
16:49 tenplus1 oh
16:50 IcyDiamond I'm just putting together random ideas in my mind into a mod, I have no real goal with this
16:50 IcyDiamond :D
16:50 tenplus1 you could also use the tool itself to call rightclicking: http://dev.minetest.net/minetest.register_craftitem#Callbacks
16:50 tenplus1 and check from the table in question, rather than the node
16:51 rdococ I tried to add a fisheye effect to the camera but it didn't work out too well
16:51 rdococ I wonder if anyone else has tried
16:52 paramat joined #minetest-hub
16:52 tenplus1 o/ paramat
16:57 paramat IcyDiamond  this proof of concept might interest you https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&amp;t=15065
16:57 IcyDiamond Oh, wow
16:58 Mr_Pardison that is amazing work.
16:58 IcyDiamond That's not exactly what I'm aiming for with my planets engine but it's very cool :)
16:58 tenplus1 nice :P
16:59 rdococ Those are some of the weirdest planets I've seen
17:00 Mr_Pardison and I presume you have seem some weird planets.
17:00 rdococ I'd like to see spheretest without the wrapping so the world just *looks* like a planet
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17:02 rdococ I'd create a tesseract mod now but I don't know of any popular multiple-dimension mods
17:04 Mr_Pardison multiple dimensions as in somehow messing with the 4th or making more of them (as string theory does up to 11 that all seem to work out with the math)?
17:04 IcyDiamond :D
17:05 rdococ I meant dimension as in universe. The idea is that each dimension would be a 3D sheet in four-dimensional space.
17:05 * tenplus1 is eager for the layered mapgen
17:07 IcyDiamond I don't think I'm ever going to finish my voxel planets engine at this rate
17:08 IcyDiamond I haven't even gotten around to render planets yet and I'm already screaming
17:08 IcyDiamond A guy like me should just stick to web development or minetest modding ay
17:10 Dargod joined #minetest-hub
17:10 rdococ I like the idea of generating "planets" that are biospheres with flat terrain
17:15 IcyDiamond https://gateway.ipfs.io/ipfs/QmYYLr6LQaVzu4idSyLGtXaThNArGcfRVoJqrVJxuZreJD all this needs now is sounds and particles
17:15 IcyDiamond also I wish my screen recorder would make smaller clips
17:17 Dargod joined #minetest-hub
17:18 paramat my spherical planets were just for fun, more suitable would be cubic / cubiod with landscape on the top only, like small versions of a standard MT world, because we have a fixed gravity direction
17:20 IcyDiamond I want my planet engine to render voxel planets with quadtree LOD
17:21 rdococ I like the idea of biospheres where the sea level is at the "equator"
17:21 IcyDiamond and I honestly don't know how I could ever pull off such a feat, but my brain won't leave me alone on the topic of it so I kinda have no choice
17:22 rdococ There would be an airlike void node that would occupy the space between biospheres, and it would spread to occupy adjacent air nodes
17:23 rdococ So if you opened a biosphere without creating an enclosure, you would release all of the air and suffocate
17:23 IcyDiamond lol
17:23 tenplus1 eek
17:23 rdococ Only problem is that you couldn't enter other biospheres easily without releasing the air from those
17:23 IcyDiamond How do I know when I've hit the 50 line treshold of off-topic? ban? xD
17:24 rdococ There's a threshold now?
17:24 IcyDiamond "Please keep offtopic discussions short (under 50 lines)."
17:24 tenplus1 o.O
17:24 Dargod joined #minetest-hub
17:24 rdococ Minetest mods aren't off-topic in a minetest channel
17:24 rdococ I'm pretty sure
17:25 IcyDiamond Well, I'm talking about a separate engine
17:25 IcyDiamond :P
17:25 IcyDiamond I want it to have a minetest-like modding api though, so it's not THAT far off topic
17:25 IcyDiamond :D
17:27 IcyDiamond Okay okay, back to minetest. I originally wanted to recreate Thaumcraft in minetest but I don't think I could pull it off. So I'm recreating some components of it and using my imagination to do the rest, I guess.
17:28 Jordach you bring back taint i'll kick ye ass
17:28 IcyDiamond :D
17:28 IcyDiamond I won't :P
17:28 IcyDiamond I hated it as well
17:29 Jordach yass
17:29 rdococ Hm, imagine portable holes in minetest
17:30 rdococ You would be able to place a hole that would temporarily hide the nodes it was placed on, so you could walk through
17:30 Jordach it's called a shovel rdococ
17:30 IcyDiamond How would that work?
17:30 IcyDiamond store the removed nodes in memory?
17:30 IcyDiamond Jordach: :D
17:30 redneonglow joined #minetest-hub
17:30 tenplus1 hi red
17:30 IcyDiamond Okay, but how would I store the player's "research points" and other data in general
17:31 Jordach i'm shitposting on my macbook while watching red bull soapboxes
17:31 rdococ IcyDiamond: The portable hole would be wallmounted, and when placed on a wall it would turn the nodes it was placed on into an airlike block that you can walk through and see through, but still casts full shadows. The original node would be stored in metadata
17:31 rdococ The maximum depth would be something like 5 nodes
17:31 IcyDiamond hmm, interesting idea
17:31 IhrFussel IcyDiamond, player:set_attribute("modname:dataname",data)
17:31 Jordach IcyDiamond: player_reference:set_attribute(tostring(number_of_points))
17:31 Jordach ^^^^
17:31 IcyDiamond Thanks guys
17:31 Jordach and name the string, eg "thaum_research_points"
17:31 rubenwardy IcyDiamond: 0.5.0?
17:32 IcyDiamond rubenwardy: Yep.
17:32 rubenwardy use   player:get_meta()   instead
17:32 IcyDiamond Okay.
17:32 rdococ in 0.5.0, players have regular good ol' metadata
17:32 IcyDiamond Yay.
17:32 rubenwardy it's the new API for attributes, get/set_attribute has been deprecated
17:32 rdococ although it essentially functions the same
17:32 rubenwardy (Jordach^)
17:32 rubenwardy yeah, it stores the same way
17:32 rubenwardy just a different API
17:32 Jordach REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
17:32 IcyDiamond Haha.
17:33 rdococ I can't wait for node and item metadata defined textures
17:33 IhrFussel Many mods now got used to player attributes and one (technically 2) release later you already deprecate it again
17:33 rubenwardy so?
17:33 IcyDiamond rdococ: I know right!
17:33 rubenwardy doesn't matter
17:33 Jordach >stable feature that works well
17:33 Jordach >renames it just because
17:33 rubenwardy there's no warning messages, and it's good to have a more consistent design
17:33 IcyDiamond :D
17:33 rdococ If all updates required backwards compatibility then 0.5.0-dev wouldn't exist
17:33 rubenwardy no renamed, it uses the standard meta thing
17:34 rubenwardy so    player:get_meta():set_int("foo", 23)
17:34 Jordach i still want mod adjustable shit such as redefinable textures
17:34 Jordach entities can goddamn do it
17:34 IcyDiamond ^^^
17:34 tenplus1 player:set_velocity . set_acceleration
17:34 IcyDiamond My tinkers mod requires metadata textures :(
17:34 rubenwardy set_pos > setpos
17:35 rdococ rubenwardy: when will metadata textures get here? :c
17:35 rubenwardy for items or nodes?
17:35 IcyDiamond I tried to implement it myself, but I'm not ready for a refactoring of texture system.
17:35 rdococ Both
17:35 rubenwardy much easier for items, still need to fix caching though
17:35 rubenwardy probably harder for nodes
17:35 rubenwardy neither in 0.5.0
17:35 Jordach bullshit
17:35 sfan5 "fix caching"?
17:36 rubenwardy well, change caching
17:36 sfan5 also why do you need to refactor the texture system?
17:36 IcyDiamond Because it's not possible with the current one.
17:36 rubenwardy wield item meshes are cached per content ID
17:36 IcyDiamond ^^^
17:36 sfan5 oh I thought you meant the texture caching system
17:36 rubenwardy so it doesn't take metadata into account
17:36 rubenwardy no lol
17:36 rdococ Sounds perfect for a big version bump
17:36 IcyDiamond aye
17:36 Jordach sounds more like something for 0.5
17:37 Jordach i have *hundreds* of uses for something like that
17:37 rubenwardy well, submit a PR ;)
17:37 IcyDiamond :D
17:37 rubenwardy I'm busy with the mod/etc content store
17:37 Jordach >fixing the shitty mod manager
17:37 IcyDiamond Jordach is pretty sharp-tongued
17:38 Jordach i don't eat knives for a living you know
17:38 IcyDiamond :D
17:38 IcyDiamond That's the kind of reply I wanted
17:38 IcyDiamond Thank you
17:40 IcyDiamond I tried to make decorations generate in caves but they did not
17:40 Jordach http://media.tumblr.com/8a95e026914250e1fca70ae446a92d86/tumblr_inline_nbppnlYdHT1rhpk9w.png
17:40 Jordach IcyDiamond: ^
17:41 IcyDiamond :D
17:41 IcyDiamond git: 'gud' is not a git command. See 'git --help'.
17:43 IcyDiamond Also, I noticed that plantlike can't have alpha but it's not documented
17:43 IcyDiamond I tried everything
17:47 IcyDiamond aww man, on construct is not called when swapping node
17:47 tenplus1 nothing is called on swap
17:47 IcyDiamond can i do it manually?
17:47 tenplus1 that's why it's fater
17:47 tenplus1 *faster... also yes, you can call it manually
17:47 IcyDiamond okay cool
17:49 IcyDiamond yay it works
17:49 paramat the purpose of swap node is to have no callbacks or metadata update for speed
17:49 IcyDiamond Okay :)
17:50 IcyDiamond I can live with that :p
18:00 rdococ I'm sad that the tnt mod doesn't make active TNT an entity
18:01 paramat if you write code thst makes that work we might merge it
18:01 tenplus1 you can easily add a falling entity from tnt:tnt_burning and they blow up when they land
18:01 paramat *that
18:01 tenplus1 that's what I use for lucky block traps
18:02 rdococ TNT cannons are cool
18:04 tenplus1 add falling entity, add horizontal velocity for cannon and when it lands, boom
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18:10 tenplus1 wb
18:11 Mr_Pardison I'd sooo use that.
18:14 IcyDiamond Are there any mods that add a custom crafting table with a custom recipe system? I want to see how they do it.
18:15 rubenwardy https://github.com/rubenwardy/crafting
18:15 rubenwardy relevent code in api.lua
18:16 rubenwardy there is a big limitation with groups unfortunately
18:16 rubenwardy need to fix that
18:17 IcyDiamond Okay cool, thanks, got the idea of it
18:17 rdococ I think a furnace crafting table would be cool
18:18 rdococ put coal in, put your recipe, and watch it begin smelting
18:18 IcyDiamond doesn't sound hard to do
18:18 tenplus1 that would be kewl, although 2 input slots would be amazing for mixing
18:19 rdococ I'd also like a potion brewing system with fungi you can find in forest biomes
18:19 IcyDiamond see technic fuel-fired alloy furnace, tenplus1
18:19 rdococ You would have fungi that would have set effects, and then create potions by combining their effects and utilizing emergent properties
18:22 tenplus1 +100 for potions
18:22 IcyDiamond I might write a status effect api
18:23 IcyDiamond unless thats already done, which it probably is
18:23 tenplus1 we really need a built in player effect system to change speed/jump/gravity that other mods can use
18:23 IcyDiamond ye
18:23 rdococ I wrote a status effect API already
18:24 rdococ https://github.com/rdococ/effects/
18:24 IcyDiamond kk
18:24 tenplus1 great mod rdoc but any other mod that does player overrides can cancel it out
18:25 tenplus1 a base system is needed for mods to build on and use
18:26 tenplus1 was thinking of a simple table  player[name][mod_id].speed .fast .jump  and the mod itself totals them up for all mods and applies the overall effect on globalstep every second... that way it's constant
18:27 tenplus1 effects can be zero'd out using minetest.after or if player dies/disconnects player[name] = nil
18:28 tenplus1 e.g...  player["TenPlus1"]["playerplus:ice"].speed = -0.4   <-- removes 0.4 from overall speed for walking on ice
18:30 tenplus1 a for loop goes through the table for each player, adds and removes for each effect and applies afterwards so it's stable
18:35 rubenwardy I'd like a mod which handles buffs and debuffs which cause status effects
18:36 tenplus1 a mod can handle them, that's fine... but... we need a BASE system for mods to use
18:36 rubenwardy they can be triggered by the biome, temperature, and events
18:37 rubenwardy not sure how different this is from rdococ
18:37 rubenwardy 's effects
18:37 tenplus1 a simple table like above can hold all the buffs for any mod, total them up and apply effect .. this stops other mods overriding them and screwing it all up
18:37 rubenwardy there's no straight forward way to combine effects
18:37 rubenwardy so having it in the engine could be a bad idea
18:37 tenplus1 e.g.  playerplus can use monoids, but 3d_armor overrides it all so it's useless
18:37 rubenwardy a mod in MTG would be good
18:38 tenplus1 we just need the inbuild mod to handle the buff list and total it up... that's all
18:38 rdococ rubenwardy: that's effectively my mod, though - though rather than the buffs and debuffs being composed of attribute modifiers they're composed of functions that are meant to modify the attributes such as player physics
18:38 rubenwardy do you handle anything yourself?
18:38 rdococ e.g. 'heavy' would multiply the gravity by some factor
18:38 rdococ rubenwardy: the idea was to allow greater customizability
18:38 tenplus1 your mod could easily add and remove buffs from the table tho so works the same just more compatible
18:40 rdococ having a set of modifiers rather than functions for each buff/debuff would result in the only effects you can create being composites of some basic buffs/debuffs that I decide to add to the basic modifier system
18:40 rdococ so I went with the alternate approach of allowing modders to do whatever for their effects
18:40 tenplus1 e.g.  if rdoc's mod halves the player speed, then armor overrides it to normal again and the buff wears off doubling the speed to 2.0.... doesnt work
18:41 rubenwardy how do things combine them?
18:41 rubenwardy *then
18:41 rdococ if armor used the effects mod then it would work, assuming the armor did something like double the player speed
18:42 tenplus1 we already have MANY mods using override system, it's a mess... which is why we NEED a built in way to handle the effects list properly
18:42 rdococ true
18:42 tenplus1 then we all use that and all is right with the world :)
18:42 rdococ maybe in that specific circumstance, a set modifier system for status effects would be better
18:43 tenplus1 we only need it to handle speed/jump./gravity... anything else can easily be handled by the mods
18:46 rdococ I'm trying to apply a fisheye shader
18:47 rubenwardy rdococ: may you consider adding a "physics" key to the effects definition, and where the value is a multiplier?
18:47 rdococ rubenwardy: maybe but I haven't touched the effects mod in a while
18:47 rubenwardy sure
18:47 rdococ anyway, I'm trying to apply a fisheye shader ingame, but I'm not sure how
18:47 rdococ I want to do it with a fragment shader though, at least I think I do
18:48 rdococ I don't want to touch the C++ so I'm probably just going to edit an existing one
18:53 IcyDiamond well im going to take a break from modding now
18:58 paramat one issue is that speed, jump, gravity overrides should not necessarily add up or multiply, sometimes the most recently applied one should just replace a former value. seems very non-trivial
18:59 tenplus1 the table method is the simplest and easiest to control
19:01 rdococ Hm, I wonder if any mods add iron oxide (aka rust)... you could get it by pouring water on iron ingots or maybe by crafting them together
19:02 tenplus1 if default had iron blocks that could rust and steel that couldnt it'd be kewl :D
19:04 rdococ what would the rust be useful for?
19:04 tenplus1 decoration mostly
19:04 tenplus1 same as the copper patina in moreores
19:04 tenplus1 sorry, moreblocks
19:28 * sofar raises eyebrow
19:35 tenplus1 ruben / paramat: here's an example of what I mean: https://pastebin.com/QrdB2a5N
19:35 tenplus1 it's very simple in it's operation and use and any mod can use it to set player overrides properly
19:36 tenplus1 give yourself the pova:axe and use to change player speed/jump/gravity as test... resets on death/disconnect
19:44 tenplus1 https://pastebin.com/R5n9u022 <-- better version
19:45 tenplus1 o/ sofar
19:46 tenplus1 e.g. your stamina mod's sprint could easily add:  pova[name]["stamina:sprint"].speed = 0.4
19:46 sofar ideally this uses player_monoids instead
19:46 tenplus1 player monoids can easily be circumvented or reset by mistake
19:47 sofar then lets fix it
19:47 tenplus1 if this very ssimple table and loop was in player mod then everything could use it
19:47 tenplus1 that's the point sofar, we need a built in option... at least this could be simple enough not to interfere with existing mods, no lag and easily used if wanted
19:50 sofar no lag is impossible
19:50 sofar you mean "acceptable lag"
19:50 tenplus1 lol, it scrolls through players and adds up numbers, very minimal :)
19:50 tenplus1 if any
19:51 sofar yes but other mods will want to influence player physics too
19:51 sofar there needs to be a central arbiter
19:51 sofar that's what player_monoids does... if it's unreliable or slow then it should be fixed
19:51 sofar what stamina/sprinting does is a hack :)
19:52 tenplus1 this is it...  if in default otehr mods can easily add a setting to the list and it gets totted up
19:52 tenplus1 like the stamina example above
19:52 tenplus1 pova[name]["stamina:sprint"].speed = 0.4  when active, it gets added onto the total
19:53 sofar you're only doing + or -
19:53 sofar other mods may want to do other math functions to it
19:53 tenplus1 we could easily have a base value as well for a starting point
19:53 sofar why does player_monoid not work for you?
19:53 tenplus1 3d armor resets it when they are in use
19:54 sofar so 3d armor is incomplete
19:54 sofar you make mod salad this way
19:54 sofar I don't like mod salad
19:54 tenplus1 lol... I still think it should be in default for all to use
19:59 paramat but does this have the option to not add up override values, in case a new override should set a particular value ignoring the previous value?
20:00 tenplus1 this takes the base numbers of 1.0 and adds/subtracts from them and when done sets player override, which is a lot easier and works better tahn each mod doing it themself
20:00 paramat do values add up or multiply each other?
20:00 paramat after all the physics overrides are multipliers
20:01 paramat looks like it adds, that's no good
20:01 rubenwardy it needs to multiply
20:01 tenplus1 if you wanna double player speed do  pova[name]["double_speed"].speed = 1.0
20:01 tenplus1 it adds 1.0 onto speed giving 2.0 final result
20:01 tenplus1 once it's cleared or player dies it automatically resets to 1.0
20:02 rubenwardy doesn't help you want to make a potion to go 2x faster
20:02 sofar I think you need to study what player_monoids does
20:02 sofar https://github.com/minetest-mods/player_monoids/blob/master/API.md
20:02 tenplus1 we all know base speed is 1.0... we dont need to * or / if we can add 1.0 or -0.5 to half
20:02 paramat basic idea may be ok though
20:02 tenplus1 player monoids can USE this mod to set overrides properly
20:02 tenplus1 as can all mods
20:02 sofar your mod is essentially a hack
20:02 tenplus1 without fear of resetting one another
20:03 tenplus1 it's not a hack sofar, it's a counter that totals effects up properly and applies
20:03 paramat oh i see you actually use it by assuming it adds up
20:03 sofar player_monoids makes a solid API that makes things like this consistent and logical if many mods use it
20:04 sofar I'm not going to argue, you don't want to study player_monoids? doesn't matter to me
20:04 tenplus1 paramat: it totals the whole list for all mods that use it and only then sets override properly
20:04 tenplus1 I have studied monoids sofar, it does what it does but mods can override it easily or have no support for it
20:04 tenplus1 we NEED something in default for them ALL to use to keep things working properly
20:05 tenplus1 this was as simple an option without the need for tons of function calls
20:05 sofar default? default is junk, we shouldn't replace it with junk
20:05 sofar paraphrasing, of course, it's not terrible it's just really too simplistic
20:05 sofar so, let's not replace it with something that is too simplistic either
20:06 paramat it's VERY annoying when someone SHOUTS single words ;]
20:06 tenplus1 I can easily add simple commands to add an effect or reset
20:06 tenplus1 sorry paramat, those needed to stand out
20:06 sofar you NEVER listen to me
20:07 sofar :P
20:07 sofar it's like a dysfunctional marriage
20:07 tenplus1 lol
20:08 paramat much of the time overrides shouldn't add up, maybe you could add that functionality
20:09 tenplus1 can I have an example paramat?
20:10 tenplus1 of all the mods I've seen that handle speed/gravity/jump a simple addition or subtraction would work for effects and potions and sprint and armor effects
20:11 shivajiva I was thinking an override by nature sets a new value, that would be an override
20:12 tenplus1 the player:set_override() does this but using different mods will affect one another's results
20:13 tenplus1 this lets you add  +1.0 for armor boots, +0.4 for spring, -0.4 for standing on snow etc which all gets added up and set at the end meaning it all works out for every effect added
20:13 tenplus1 sorry for rambling folks, in my mind this works really well and is simple enough for modders to use for their own uses...
20:19 tenplus1 o/
20:30 Fixer btw, what do you think about ability to control showing of F5 debug info via server like with minimap and zoom?
20:30 Fixer for extra thicc survival
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21:11 IcyDiamond minetest_game should have an armour api included
21:13 IcyDiamond [Controversial] [Non-trivial] [Won't add]
21:18 rubenwardy doesn't make sense without mobs
21:18 rubenwardy which we should have too
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21:30 IhrFussel Is it by the way a bug that players cannot teleport while being attached to something? Or is that intentional?
21:31 rubenwardy intentional
21:32 rubenwardy move the entity they're attached
21:32 rubenwardy +to
21:32 IhrFussel The logical thought would be "players gets detached and teleports after"
21:32 rubenwardy or maybe they should do that
21:32 rubenwardy with Krock's PR there's now callbacks fordetachment
21:32 rubenwardy so you could do that in /teleport
21:32 rubenwardy and any thing that wants the player to remain attached can just cancel it
21:33 rubenwardy Make an issue?
21:33 IhrFussel Not just /teleport ... I have a few ways of "forcing" teleportation on certain conditions...and players can ignore it when they are in a vehicle for example... now I need to manually add "player:set_detach()" before I set the pos
21:34 IhrFussel What happens if I call set_detach() on a player who's not attached to anything? Will the engine just ignore it?
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22:04 Fixer rubenwardy: makes sense even without mobs, because multiplayer PVP
22:04 rubenwardy nah
22:04 rubenwardy MTG mostly aims for singleplayer use, pvp servers can add armor
22:06 Fixer where it says that?
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22:17 tumeninodes https://hub.minetest.net/info why does this have a bad security certificate?
22:17 tumeninodes hub.minetest.net uses an invalid security certificate. The certificate is only valid for the following names: metacrane.com, www.metacrane.com
22:18 rubenwardy that domain isn't https
22:18 rubenwardy it's inconsistent on minetest.net
22:18 rubenwardy unfortunately
22:18 rubenwardy (rubenwardy.com is all HTTPS)
22:18 tumeninodes well then...
22:18 rubenwardy (easy peasy)
22:18 rubenwardy then again, I don't use PHP
22:19 tumeninodes :P
22:36 paramat can anyone help hisforever in minetest channel who has this bug https://imgur.com/a/Fr1t4 ?

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