Time Nick Message 00:56 IhrFussel Kinda sad how many US people think they can ignore GDPR 07:06 AndroBuilder hello people :) anyone time and willing to brainstorm with me about some edu-project for Minetest? 13:03 IhrFussel What would you guys do if a player joins your server only to find out certain values of certain armors and "uses" your staff for the experiment, but leaves again as soon as they know the values? I'd call that abusing server staff 13:04 Krock that's material inflation 13:05 IhrFussel It's not about the materials... I mean it's kinda rude to just join the server and request staff only to get info for another project (other server/SP?) 13:05 Krock natural but also a little annoying. just drop the items when they leave unless they registered somewhere >:D 13:06 Krock oh.. it's about the staff 13:07 IhrFussel It's about the wasted time yeah... the player joins, requests a staff member, staff member tp there, equips all different armor types so player can see the fleshy values, after the player just says "thanks a lot that would've taken a lot of time if I had to do it" and leaves server again 13:08 Krock it's up to the staff whether they want to help or not 13:09 IhrFussel I'm pretty sure my staff member wouldn't have helped if they knew that the player plans to use the info for other things 13:10 * twoelk confesses he often joins random servers to test things, though seldom the help of staff is requested 13:10 IhrFussel Now the best thing about all this is: The info the player got is COMPLETELY useless since I adjusted all armor values on my server 13:11 longerstaff13-m Heh 13:11 Mr-Pardison lol 13:11 Krock then your staff trolled him without letting him know 13:11 IhrFussel Nope, the player didn't say that they neeed the info for anotjer server 13:12 IhrFussel needed* 13:12 Krock it's the player's issue if so 13:13 IhrFussel Like I said...I doubt that my staff would've helped if they knew that the info was going to be used for other server(s) only 13:13 twoelk there had been talk of rebalancing the default values of armour - forgot who was involved though 13:13 IhrFussel My guess is the player wanted to know it for some PvP server to have an "advantage" maybe 13:13 Krock well, balancing is also an issue in games that are quite older than Minetest 13:14 Krock the perfect solution is hard to find 13:15 IhrFussel Fighting games have the biggest balance problems =P 13:16 Krock I also have problems with the balance. the balance of my money. 13:17 IhrFussel But if a MT server fully implements a level system (like mine does) and the level even determines the HP/damage then it's very complicated 13:18 twoelk balancing is all about ruling out advantages, while playing is all about gaining advantages :-D 13:18 IhrFussel Players can have up to 500 HP on my server, so I had to *greatly* reduce armor defense 13:20 IhrFussel But the new 3d_armor version kinda only prevents direct damage anymore... the old one for example protected admin armor from fall damage and more 13:20 Krock IhrFussel, IIRC you're using the hacky HP method.. why not just 0.4.17-dev and https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/backport-0.4/doc/lua_api.txt#L4016 ? :'( 13:21 IhrFussel I thought that was only planned for 0.5.0 13:21 IhrFussel Some core dev once said "big features will not be backported to make 0.5.0 more attractive" 13:25 Krock *shrug* it's in the backports branch and required only a few lines + builtin glue to impleemnt 13:36 paramat hm indeed that shouldn't be in backports :] 13:37 IhrFussel It's not in backports 13:37 IhrFussel I use 0.4.17-dev on my server and the constants.lua doesn't mention anything about HP 13:39 Krock oh funny. it's mentioned in the lua_api but not in the constants 13:39 sfan5 must be a mistake 13:39 sfan5 I did not review commits without merge commits 13:40 sfan5 so lua_api might be slightly inconsistent 13:40 sfan5 s/commits$/conflicts/ 13:40 sfan5 though I'm wondering why a separate commit changed this in lua_api.txt 13:41 sfan5 >Can_zoom player object property: Add missing documentation 13:41 sfan5 ah yes 13:41 sfan5 the commit message does not mention this at all 13:41 sfan5 good job 13:43 rubenwardy sfan5: original commit https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/6df312a60 13:43 sfan5 how did that happen 🤔 13:45 paramat yes i can't see settable hp in backports. my commit didn't add 'hp_max = 1', odd 13:48 paramat 'hp_max = 1' was there 3 years ago 13:49 paramat must have been non-settable though like 'weight' 13:50 * twoelk watches as the mistery evolves - maybe we have a plot for a new x-files episode 15:01 IhrFussel For players it's unsettable yes, but it's used for entities 15:01 rubenwardy ^ 15:24 Mr-Pardison the ability to turn off chat on a mobile device (phone and tablet) isn't an option like it is on a computer. 15:24 Mr-Pardison any plans to make this an option? 15:25 rubenwardy that's a silly question 15:25 rubenwardy Minetest doesn't have plans 15:25 Mr-Pardison then feature requests/issues on this. 15:25 rubenwardy more seriously: improved controls will likely include stuff like that 15:26 Mr-Pardison bundle them together. wis.e 15:26 Mr-Pardison *wise 15:38 paramat if there isn't an issue for it please do open one 15:48 Mr-Pardison Just ot make sure it goes to the right place, would I post the issue under MTE or MTG? 15:49 rubenwardy MTE 15:49 Mr-Pardison thanks. 15:52 * twoelk has no idea how people control their smartphones 15:56 Mr-Pardison #7219 15:56 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7219 -- Add in ability to turn off chat on mobile 15:56 Mr-Pardison issue posted. 19:40 Fixer https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DaFMILCUMAArMsG.jpg:large 19:44 Krock PCMR 19:45 Krock https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/89zp3o/every_time/ 19:46 Krock now we need an iFunny and 9gag link for the same image 20:23 IhrFussel To comply with GDPR every server owner has to make a processing contract with their hoster right? Would that mean people who let their worlds host by private individuals would have to make such a contract too? 20:24 sfan5 source? 20:26 IhrFussel sfan5, "According to the EU General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR), every company that wants a service provider to process personal data on the company’s behalf must have a commissioned-processing contract (CP contract) with that provider." it says "every company" but GDPR applies to anyone who processes personal data so I'm confused 20:26 IhrFussel https://www.activemind.de/en/data-protection/documents/commissioned-processing-contract/ 20:27 VanessaE IhrFussel: the "service provider" doesn't "process" your minetest data. 20:28 IhrFussel So you think I also don't need such a contract with my server hoster company? I thought I might need one since the data is still on their data centers 20:28 VanessaE I highly doubt it. 20:28 VanessaE you're not dealing with private data anywaysd 20:29 IhrFussel GDPR sees the IP as PII data 20:29 VanessaE the closest would be auth.txtr, and it's encrypted. 20:29 rubenwardy *hashed 20:29 VanessaE -r 20:29 VanessaE close enough :P 20:29 rubenwardy also, IPs are not usually private 20:29 VanessaE it's a one-way hash, is it not/ 20:29 VanessaE ? 20:29 rubenwardy unless you link with something else, iirc 20:30 IhrFussel https://eugdprcompliant.com/personal-data/ 20:30 rubenwardy in some cases 20:31 IhrFussel Not sure what counts as "METADATA" ... username, password, last login etc? 20:31 Shara Fussel, whether IP addresses are PII is a much debated topic. But it's a non-issue since logging them for security related reasons would be legitimate grounds for processing them 20:31 Shara Things like username and password generally shouldn't be PII either 20:32 VanessaE IhrFussel: so delete debug.txt after it gets old enough. problem solved? 20:32 Shara Also, you're not a company, right? 20:32 VanessaE (my machine rotates the debug logs daily, auto-delete after a month) 20:33 rubenwardy Shara: how does data protection differ when it's an individual? 20:33 Shara And the purpose of an MT server certainly isn't (or at least I really hope isn't) collection of PII 20:33 rubenwardy surely it's the same? 20:33 nerzhul GPDR is for personal data, mt has nothing to do with it 20:33 IhrFussel Another problem is that every user *must* have agreed to the privacy policy *before* their data can be processed ... I wonder how that would work in MT, I only see cases about websites where it's easy (create a check box users have to opt-in) 20:34 nerzhul our game is not impacted, we don't have personal emails, phone number, adresses etc. Password is not a privacy personal data 20:34 VanessaE "Who does the GDPR affect? 20:34 VanessaE The GDPR not only applies to organisations located within the EU but it will also apply to organisations located outside of the EU if they offer goods or services to, or monitor the behaviour of, EU data subjects. It applies to all companies processing and holding the personal data of data subjects residing in the European Union, regardless of the company’s location." 20:34 nerzhul yes, and MT has no personal data 20:34 VanessaE IhrFussel: ^^^ so no, if you don't run a company and use it to provide MT services or whatever, you are not affected. 20:34 Shara ^ 20:34 IhrFussel "A much discussed topic is the IP address. The GDPR states that IP addresses should be considered personal data as it enters the scope of ‘online identifiers’. Of course, in the case of a dynamic IP address – which is changed every time a person connects to a network – there has been some legitimate debate going on as to whether it can truly lead to the identification of a person or not. The con 20:34 IhrFussel clusion is that the GDPR does consider it as such" 20:35 nerzhul if you have MT in a company and you don't handle perosnal data, no problem 20:35 nerzhul ip is only a technical data 20:35 nerzhul (note i'm working on a such problematic at work because we have real personal data) 20:35 Shara IP address... really depends on who you ask and what mood they are in :) 20:35 VanessaE nerzhul: under this GDPR it's PII, but it doesn't apply to IhrFussel so the point is moot./ 20:36 rubenwardy IhrFussel: as said, it's on private when combined with other identifiers 20:36 rubenwardy and again, GDPR doesn't apply to you 20:36 IhrFussel But it doesn't only apply to companies, it applies to every individual that processes data that could be *considered* personal 20:36 Shara I work on a privacy team... every day people are freaking out about GDPR. 20:37 VanessaE see above, IhrFussel . it doesn't apply to you, per the GDPR faq. 20:37 Shara Unless you intentionally gathering personal information or creating a situation where providing it is strongly encouraged, I very muhc doubt an MT server will be an issue 20:37 IhrFussel I read that I should at least have a privacy policy ingame to be on the safe side...and in that policy I should state why I log/process which info of the player 20:37 Shara you are* 20:37 Shara And what personal info do you process? 20:38 Fixer oh, lol, GDPR in minetest 20:39 IhrFussel GDPR sees the IP as personal data, so ignoring that could get me in trouble 20:39 Shara And you have a legitimate purpose for collecting that 20:39 rubenwardy you clearly don't know shit about data protection 20:39 Shara In other words, you don't need to rely on consent 20:39 Shara COnsent is just one single method 20:40 Shara In many situations, it's actually a really poor thing to rely on 20:41 sfan5 IhrFussel: even if the gpdr applies to you and saving IP's would not be okay, you would realistically not get into trouble 20:42 Shara This kind of thing is why I've previously recommended against the random pasting of IP addresses in the channel by the way. Though realistically, the odds of that making a problem are again tiny. 20:42 Fixer does GDPR even apply to volunteers hosting servers? 20:43 rubenwardy no 20:43 Shara there are situations where it might 20:44 Shara But personally at least, I'm not going to worry about it, since I keep it in my rules that personal info shouldn't be shared 20:49 IhrFussel Okay I found this German text (translated): "No! If individuals process personal data exclusively for the purpose of practicing personal and family activities, the GDPR does not apply." 20:52 Sokomine hm, intresting topic 20:53 AndroBuilder ruvenwardy is it possible with your award mod to Limit/unlock certain sized areas i can set up with the areamarkers? 20:53 Sokomine Shara: sounds reasonable for other reasons as well 20:53 AndroBuilder rubenwardy 20:54 Shara Fussel, if you are honestly worried about this, it should be possible to contact your DPA and simply ask them 20:54 Shara I know that's possible here anyway, because I've done 20:54 Shara done it* 20:55 Sokomine AndroBuilder: probably not out of the box. it's all open source so you can modify both mods to do what you want 20:55 Shara They probably won't give you any absolute answer, but they could probably point you to exactly what to look at 20:56 AndroBuilder Sokomine i know just wondering if there is something like this ... or you guys have a quick idea 20:56 Sokomine AndroBuilder: one thing i'd like to write is a mod for protecting towns. with pre-set areas and an approval system where players whose buildings have been considered good enough get to get more areas 20:56 AndroBuilder I would want this for students on an edu server 20:57 AndroBuilder They do things ... get markers as award ... and also the better the more they dk the bigger their area can get 20:58 Sokomine ah. yes. that's pretty close to what i'd do if i could find the time 20:59 AndroBuilder Can i set up areas in which only certain people or predefined groups can claim areas themselve? 20:59 Sokomine let admins fund towns, create plots inside the town area, let people who want a particular plot "buy" it for free (one per town) - and enough admins or other trusted players approve it, give the player the right to get more plots 21:00 AndroBuilder Nice sounds also very good 21:00 Sokomine just hasn't been written yet.... 21:00 Sokomine that's the trouble. just an idea so far 21:00 AndroBuilder And im also looking for an idea for my students to create themselves ... crrat 21:01 Sokomine the areas mod does not support yet what you ask for. it can be modified, and that wouldn't even be too complicated 21:01 Sokomine create themshevles...what? 21:01 AndroBuilder Create means ... paint Textures & write register code and maybe crafting recepie 21:02 AndroBuilder But for this i would need ideas about cubic nodes :) 21:02 Sokomine aah. create their own mod :-) maybe they have own ideas about what they want? 21:02 AndroBuilder Aweso me if those ideas would all suit one topic but mh 21:03 AndroBuilder They might but don't realize how dificult it would be 21:03 Sokomine even that could work to a degree. they can decide on a common project and start by creating a simple block for it 21:04 AndroBuilder Like what 21:04 rubenwardy AndroBuilder: awards.register_on_unlock(func(playername, awarddef)) 21:04 AndroBuilder Deco obj. are not cubic 1mx1m 21:04 rubenwardy also awarddef.on_unlock = function(playername) end 21:05 Sokomine i don't know. maybe there is some topic they're particulary intrested in? easter is past now. there have also been projects where students built their school 21:05 rubenwardy AndroBuilder: https://github.com/rubenwardy/crafting/blob/master/init.lua#L29-L40 21:05 rubenwardy that's how the crafting mod allows awards to unlock crafts 21:05 Sokomine ah. you mean more complex objects like meshes? how old are your students? 21:06 AndroBuilder No meshes are to much they are 12-13 21:06 AndroBuilder rubenwardy thanks and this func should rewrite the allowed size of area for this player? 21:07 rubenwardy err 21:07 AndroBuilder They can use gimp 21:07 rubenwardy on_unlock are callbacks 21:07 AndroBuilder ? 21:07 rubenwardy the thing I linked was an example on how to add different prizes 21:07 AndroBuilder Ah okay 21:08 rubenwardy so if you do something similar to the crafting example, but rewrite the allowed area size instead, it'll work fine 21:08 rubenwardy well 21:08 rubenwardy if it's only one or two awards you may be better off putting it in on_unlock in the award definition 21:08 AndroBuilder So far it seems to complexe to me to figure it out in combination with the area mod 21:09 AndroBuilder Not sure even what they need to achieve 21:11 rubenwardy documented on_unlock here: https://github.com/rubenwardy/awards/blob/master/README.md#registering-awards 21:18 Sokomine if it's nothing ingame but rather "creating a new block", "write a small mod", "creating a texture" etc then maybe you'll be better off by writing a small mod that stores how large an area each player is supposed to have? 21:20 Sokomine the rewards mod is excellent for giving rewards for ingame achievements 21:20 rubenwardy *awards 21:20 rubenwardy !mod [rewards] 21:20 MinetestBot rubenwardy: Could not find anything. 21:21 rubenwardy \o/ 21:21 AndroBuilder Both are seperate ideas Sokomine 21:21 rubenwardy need to grab Wuzzy again to polish awards further 21:23 Sokomine er...the awards mod is the reward for typing the mod name right :) 21:23 rubenwardy XD 21:23 rubenwardy cool 21:27 Fixer wuzzieing intensifies 21:28 AndroBuilder ^^ 21:32 AndroBuilder Is it possible to Change the size a certain user can protect by user? 21:32 tumeninodes Few know "Wuzzy", describes a one who is a Wuzzyist..., in a sentence: "Wuzz like that, now it be like this." 21:33 tumeninodes correction> Wuzzymist 21:35 AndroBuilder What is the difference between sofar s hunger mod and tenplus1 21:36 rubenwardy one adds hunger to minetest 21:36 rubenwardy the other is a well known community member 21:36 AndroBuilder :-) i mean his hunger mod 21:36 xerox123 hehe 21:39 Fixer wuzzy is very good with bugreports too 21:41 Sokomine AndroBuilder: again, yes, but not without changes to the areas mod. not necessarily big or complex changes. the most complex part would be to somehow set which area size each player can protect 21:41 Fixer participate in discussion https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/2103 21:48 Fixer https://i.imgur.com/Ua1v0dY.png ^____^ 21:49 rubenwardy prohibited materials detected 21:49 rubenwardy description: Heretic propoganda 21:50 Fixer beta propaganda 21:55 Fixer reminds me to disable mipmaps in minetest 21:57 Fixer also saves VRAM i need 22:40 tumeninodes for crying out loud, who is handling topic move requests on the forum lately? :D Traffic's backing up, it only gets deeper. 22:40 * tumeninodes is away from his desk, please leave a mssg after the beep 22:43 Shara tumeninodes: your post was missing license info I think 22:43 Shara Fix it and I'll move it for you 22:44 tumeninodes ? 0_o license be in the folder 22:44 Shara It should be in the forum post 22:45 tumeninodes thpltpltplt 22:45 Shara So people know what the license is before they go clicking links 22:45 tumeninodes dang license justice warriors 22:45 Shara Sorry! :D 22:51 tumeninodes tada https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16423 22:54 Shara Moved it :) 22:55 tumeninodes thank you very much 22:55 Shara No problem. I did a bunch of them the other day and didn't get through them all :( 22:56 Shara It's not usually me who does them, so hadn't realised how many were waiting 22:56 rubenwardy was me for a long while 22:56 rubenwardy then uni happened 22:56 rubenwardy so a void formed 22:56 tumeninodes yes they have been backing up. Takes time to review 22:57 tumeninodes I miss kaeza :( 22:58 tumeninodes quite a few people actually... 23:00 tumeninodes too bad someone could not code up an automatic code reviewer ; ) 23:02 tumeninodes wait? wasn't there kaezabot or something before which kinda did such? 23:02 rubenwardy sfan5 madeone 23:02 rubenwardy didn't move things though 23:02 tumeninodes yes that was it 23:14 Sokomine i havn't really checked which of my mods need moving. the forum is a huge list of unread messages, with the older ones only accessible through krocks mod search or google 23:27 tumeninodes uh oh 23:29 longerstaff13 o/ 23:30 longerstaff13 yeah where is kaeza lately? 23:58 Hijiri maybe he caught a kazea