| Time |
Nick |
Message |
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| 00:56 |
IhrFussel |
Kinda sad how many US people think they can ignore GDPR |
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| 07:06 |
AndroBuilder |
hello people :) anyone time and willing to brainstorm with me about some edu-project for Minetest? |
| 08:16 |
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| 13:00 |
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| 13:03 |
IhrFussel |
What would you guys do if a player joins your server only to find out certain values of certain armors and "uses" your staff for the experiment, but leaves again as soon as they know the values? I'd call that abusing server staff |
| 13:04 |
Krock |
that's material inflation |
| 13:04 |
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| 13:05 |
IhrFussel |
It's not about the materials... I mean it's kinda rude to just join the server and request staff only to get info for another project (other server/SP?) |
| 13:05 |
Krock |
natural but also a little annoying. just drop the items when they leave unless they registered somewhere >:D |
| 13:06 |
Krock |
oh.. it's about the staff |
| 13:07 |
IhrFussel |
It's about the wasted time yeah... the player joins, requests a staff member, staff member tp there, equips all different armor types so player can see the fleshy values, after the player just says "thanks a lot that would've taken a lot of time if I had to do it" and leaves server again |
| 13:08 |
Krock |
it's up to the staff whether they want to help or not |
| 13:09 |
IhrFussel |
I'm pretty sure my staff member wouldn't have helped if they knew that the player plans to use the info for other things |
| 13:10 |
* twoelk |
confesses he often joins random servers to test things, though seldom the help of staff is requested |
| 13:10 |
IhrFussel |
Now the best thing about all this is: The info the player got is COMPLETELY useless since I adjusted all armor values on my server |
| 13:11 |
longerstaff13-m |
Heh |
| 13:11 |
Mr-Pardison |
lol |
| 13:11 |
Krock |
then your staff trolled him without letting him know |
| 13:11 |
IhrFussel |
Nope, the player didn't say that they neeed the info for anotjer server |
| 13:12 |
IhrFussel |
needed* |
| 13:12 |
Krock |
it's the player's issue if so |
| 13:13 |
IhrFussel |
Like I said...I doubt that my staff would've helped if they knew that the info was going to be used for other server(s) only |
| 13:13 |
twoelk |
there had been talk of rebalancing the default values of armour - forgot who was involved though |
| 13:13 |
IhrFussel |
My guess is the player wanted to know it for some PvP server to have an "advantage" maybe |
| 13:13 |
Krock |
well, balancing is also an issue in games that are quite older than Minetest |
| 13:14 |
Krock |
the perfect solution is hard to find |
| 13:15 |
IhrFussel |
Fighting games have the biggest balance problems =P |
| 13:16 |
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| 13:16 |
Krock |
I also have problems with the balance. the balance of my money. </joke> |
| 13:17 |
IhrFussel |
But if a MT server fully implements a level system (like mine does) and the level even determines the HP/damage then it's very complicated |
| 13:18 |
twoelk |
balancing is all about ruling out advantages, while playing is all about gaining advantages :-D |
| 13:18 |
IhrFussel |
Players can have up to 500 HP on my server, so I had to *greatly* reduce armor defense |
| 13:20 |
IhrFussel |
But the new 3d_armor version kinda only prevents direct damage anymore... the old one for example protected admin armor from fall damage and more |
| 13:20 |
Krock |
IhrFussel, IIRC you're using the hacky HP method.. why not just 0.4.17-dev and https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/backport-0.4/doc/lua_api.txt#L4016 ? :'( |
| 13:21 |
IhrFussel |
I thought that was only planned for 0.5.0 |
| 13:21 |
IhrFussel |
Some core dev once said "big features will not be backported to make 0.5.0 more attractive" |
| 13:23 |
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| 13:25 |
Krock |
*shrug* it's in the backports branch and required only a few lines + builtin glue to impleemnt |
| 13:36 |
paramat |
hm indeed that shouldn't be in backports :] |
| 13:37 |
IhrFussel |
It's not in backports |
| 13:37 |
IhrFussel |
I use 0.4.17-dev on my server and the constants.lua doesn't mention anything about HP |
| 13:39 |
Krock |
oh funny. it's mentioned in the lua_api but not in the constants |
| 13:39 |
sfan5 |
must be a mistake |
| 13:39 |
sfan5 |
I did not review commits without merge commits |
| 13:40 |
sfan5 |
so lua_api might be slightly inconsistent |
| 13:40 |
sfan5 |
s/commits$/conflicts/ |
| 13:40 |
sfan5 |
though I'm wondering why a separate commit changed this in lua_api.txt |
| 13:41 |
sfan5 |
>Can_zoom player object property: Add missing documentation |
| 13:41 |
sfan5 |
ah yes |
| 13:41 |
sfan5 |
the commit message does not mention this at all |
| 13:41 |
sfan5 |
good job |
| 13:43 |
rubenwardy |
sfan5: original commit https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/6df312a60 |
| 13:43 |
sfan5 |
how did that happen 🤔 |
| 13:45 |
paramat |
yes i can't see settable hp in backports. my commit didn't add 'hp_max = 1', odd |
| 13:48 |
paramat |
'hp_max = 1' was there 3 years ago |
| 13:49 |
paramat |
must have been non-settable though like 'weight' |
| 13:50 |
* twoelk |
watches as the mistery evolves - maybe we have a plot for a new x-files episode |
| 14:01 |
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| 14:21 |
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| 14:21 |
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| 15:01 |
IhrFussel |
For players it's unsettable yes, but it's used for entities |
| 15:01 |
rubenwardy |
^ |
| 15:10 |
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| 15:21 |
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| 15:24 |
Mr-Pardison |
the ability to turn off chat on a mobile device (phone and tablet) isn't an option like it is on a computer. |
| 15:24 |
Mr-Pardison |
any plans to make this an option? |
| 15:25 |
rubenwardy |
that's a silly question |
| 15:25 |
rubenwardy |
Minetest doesn't have plans |
| 15:25 |
Mr-Pardison |
then feature requests/issues on this. |
| 15:25 |
rubenwardy |
more seriously: improved controls will likely include stuff like that |
| 15:26 |
Mr-Pardison |
bundle them together. wis.e |
| 15:26 |
Mr-Pardison |
*wise |
| 15:38 |
paramat |
if there isn't an issue for it please do open one |
| 15:48 |
Mr-Pardison |
Just ot make sure it goes to the right place, would I post the issue under MTE or MTG? |
| 15:49 |
rubenwardy |
MTE |
| 15:49 |
Mr-Pardison |
thanks. |
| 15:52 |
* twoelk |
has no idea how people control their smartphones |
| 15:56 |
Mr-Pardison |
#7219 |
| 15:56 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7219 -- Add in ability to turn off chat on mobile |
| 15:56 |
Mr-Pardison |
issue posted. |
| 16:12 |
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| 16:49 |
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| 18:15 |
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| 18:23 |
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| 18:45 |
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| 19:40 |
Fixer |
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DaFMILCUMAArMsG.jpg:large |
| 19:44 |
Krock |
PCMR |
| 19:45 |
Krock |
https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/89zp3o/every_time/ |
| 19:46 |
Krock |
now we need an iFunny and 9gag link for the same image |
| 20:23 |
IhrFussel |
To comply with GDPR every server owner has to make a processing contract with their hoster right? Would that mean people who let their worlds host by private individuals would have to make such a contract too? |
| 20:24 |
sfan5 |
source? |
| 20:26 |
IhrFussel |
sfan5, "According to the EU General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR), every company that wants a service provider to process personal data on the company’s behalf must have a commissioned-processing contract (CP contract) with that provider." it says "every company" but GDPR applies to anyone who processes personal data so I'm confused |
| 20:26 |
IhrFussel |
https://www.activemind.de/en/data-protection/documents/commissioned-processing-contract/ |
| 20:27 |
VanessaE |
IhrFussel: the "service provider" doesn't "process" your minetest data. |
| 20:28 |
IhrFussel |
So you think I also don't need such a contract with my server hoster company? I thought I might need one since the data is still on their data centers |
| 20:28 |
VanessaE |
I highly doubt it. |
| 20:28 |
VanessaE |
you're not dealing with private data anywaysd |
| 20:29 |
IhrFussel |
GDPR sees the IP as PII data |
| 20:29 |
VanessaE |
the closest would be auth.txtr, and it's encrypted. |
| 20:29 |
rubenwardy |
*hashed |
| 20:29 |
VanessaE |
-r |
| 20:29 |
VanessaE |
close enough :P |
| 20:29 |
rubenwardy |
also, IPs are not usually private |
| 20:29 |
VanessaE |
it's a one-way hash, is it not/ |
| 20:29 |
VanessaE |
? |
| 20:29 |
rubenwardy |
unless you link with something else, iirc |
| 20:30 |
IhrFussel |
https://eugdprcompliant.com/personal-data/ |
| 20:30 |
rubenwardy |
in some cases |
| 20:31 |
IhrFussel |
Not sure what counts as "METADATA" ... username, password, last login etc? |
| 20:31 |
Shara |
Fussel, whether IP addresses are PII is a much debated topic. But it's a non-issue since logging them for security related reasons would be legitimate grounds for processing them |
| 20:31 |
Shara |
Things like username and password generally shouldn't be PII either |
| 20:32 |
VanessaE |
IhrFussel: so delete debug.txt after it gets old enough. problem solved? |
| 20:32 |
Shara |
Also, you're not a company, right? |
| 20:32 |
VanessaE |
(my machine rotates the debug logs daily, auto-delete after a month) |
| 20:33 |
rubenwardy |
Shara: how does data protection differ when it's an individual? |
| 20:33 |
Shara |
And the purpose of an MT server certainly isn't (or at least I really hope isn't) collection of PII |
| 20:33 |
rubenwardy |
surely it's the same? |
| 20:33 |
nerzhul |
GPDR is for personal data, mt has nothing to do with it |
| 20:33 |
IhrFussel |
Another problem is that every user *must* have agreed to the privacy policy *before* their data can be processed ... I wonder how that would work in MT, I only see cases about websites where it's easy (create a check box users have to opt-in) |
| 20:34 |
nerzhul |
our game is not impacted, we don't have personal emails, phone number, adresses etc. Password is not a privacy personal data |
| 20:34 |
VanessaE |
"Who does the GDPR affect? |
| 20:34 |
VanessaE |
The GDPR not only applies to organisations located within the EU but it will also apply to organisations located outside of the EU if they offer goods or services to, or monitor the behaviour of, EU data subjects. It applies to all companies processing and holding the personal data of data subjects residing in the European Union, regardless of the company’s location." |
| 20:34 |
nerzhul |
yes, and MT has no personal data |
| 20:34 |
VanessaE |
IhrFussel: ^^^ so no, if you don't run a company and use it to provide MT services or whatever, you are not affected. |
| 20:34 |
Shara |
^ |
| 20:34 |
IhrFussel |
"A much discussed topic is the IP address. The GDPR states that IP addresses should be considered personal data as it enters the scope of ‘online identifiers’. Of course, in the case of a dynamic IP address – which is changed every time a person connects to a network – there has been some legitimate debate going on as to whether it can truly lead to the identification of a person or not. The con |
| 20:34 |
IhrFussel |
clusion is that the GDPR does consider it as such" |
| 20:35 |
nerzhul |
if you have MT in a company and you don't handle perosnal data, no problem |
| 20:35 |
nerzhul |
ip is only a technical data |
| 20:35 |
nerzhul |
(note i'm working on a such problematic at work because we have real personal data) |
| 20:35 |
Shara |
IP address... really depends on who you ask and what mood they are in :) |
| 20:35 |
VanessaE |
nerzhul: under this GDPR it's PII, but it doesn't apply to IhrFussel so the point is moot./ |
| 20:36 |
rubenwardy |
IhrFussel: as said, it's on private when combined with other identifiers |
| 20:36 |
rubenwardy |
and again, GDPR doesn't apply to you |
| 20:36 |
IhrFussel |
But it doesn't only apply to companies, it applies to every individual that processes data that could be *considered* personal |
| 20:36 |
Shara |
I work on a privacy team... every day people are freaking out about GDPR. |
| 20:37 |
VanessaE |
see above, IhrFussel . it doesn't apply to you, per the GDPR faq. |
| 20:37 |
Shara |
Unless you intentionally gathering personal information or creating a situation where providing it is strongly encouraged, I very muhc doubt an MT server will be an issue |
| 20:37 |
IhrFussel |
I read that I should at least have a privacy policy ingame to be on the safe side...and in that policy I should state why I log/process which info of the player |
| 20:37 |
Shara |
you are* |
| 20:37 |
Shara |
And what personal info do you process? |
| 20:38 |
Fixer |
oh, lol, GDPR in minetest |
| 20:39 |
IhrFussel |
GDPR sees the IP as personal data, so ignoring that could get me in trouble |
| 20:39 |
Shara |
And you have a legitimate purpose for collecting that |
| 20:39 |
rubenwardy |
you clearly don't know shit about data protection |
| 20:39 |
Shara |
In other words, you don't need to rely on consent |
| 20:39 |
Shara |
COnsent is just one single method |
| 20:40 |
Shara |
In many situations, it's actually a really poor thing to rely on |
| 20:41 |
sfan5 |
IhrFussel: even if the gpdr applies to you and saving IP's would not be okay, you would realistically not get into trouble |
| 20:42 |
Shara |
This kind of thing is why I've previously recommended against the random pasting of IP addresses in the channel by the way. Though realistically, the odds of that making a problem are again tiny. |
| 20:42 |
Fixer |
does GDPR even apply to volunteers hosting servers? |
| 20:43 |
rubenwardy |
no |
| 20:43 |
Shara |
there are situations where it might |
| 20:44 |
Shara |
But personally at least, I'm not going to worry about it, since I keep it in my rules that personal info shouldn't be shared |
| 20:49 |
IhrFussel |
Okay I found this German text (translated): "No! If individuals process personal data exclusively for the purpose of practicing personal and family activities, the GDPR does not apply." |
| 20:52 |
Sokomine |
hm, intresting topic |
| 20:53 |
AndroBuilder |
ruvenwardy is it possible with your award mod to Limit/unlock certain sized areas i can set up with the areamarkers? |
| 20:53 |
Sokomine |
Shara: sounds reasonable for other reasons as well |
| 20:53 |
AndroBuilder |
rubenwardy |
| 20:54 |
Shara |
Fussel, if you are honestly worried about this, it should be possible to contact your DPA and simply ask them |
| 20:54 |
Shara |
I know that's possible here anyway, because I've done |
| 20:54 |
Shara |
done it* |
| 20:55 |
Sokomine |
AndroBuilder: probably not out of the box. it's all open source so you can modify both mods to do what you want |
| 20:55 |
Shara |
They probably won't give you any absolute answer, but they could probably point you to exactly what to look at |
| 20:56 |
AndroBuilder |
Sokomine i know just wondering if there is something like this ... or you guys have a quick idea |
| 20:56 |
Sokomine |
AndroBuilder: one thing i'd like to write is a mod for protecting towns. with pre-set areas and an approval system where players whose buildings have been considered good enough get to get more areas |
| 20:56 |
AndroBuilder |
I would want this for students on an edu server |
| 20:57 |
AndroBuilder |
They do things ... get markers as award ... and also the better the more they dk the bigger their area can get |
| 20:58 |
Sokomine |
ah. yes. that's pretty close to what i'd do if i could find the time |
| 20:59 |
AndroBuilder |
Can i set up areas in which only certain people or predefined groups can claim areas themselve? |
| 20:59 |
Sokomine |
let admins fund towns, create plots inside the town area, let people who want a particular plot "buy" it for free (one per town) - and enough admins or other trusted players approve it, give the player the right to get more plots |
| 21:00 |
AndroBuilder |
Nice sounds also very good |
| 21:00 |
Sokomine |
just hasn't been written yet.... |
| 21:00 |
Sokomine |
that's the trouble. just an idea so far |
| 21:00 |
AndroBuilder |
And im also looking for an idea for my students to create themselves ... crrat |
| 21:01 |
Sokomine |
the areas mod does not support yet what you ask for. it can be modified, and that wouldn't even be too complicated |
| 21:01 |
Sokomine |
create themshevles...what? |
| 21:01 |
AndroBuilder |
Create means ... paint Textures & write register code and maybe crafting recepie |
| 21:02 |
AndroBuilder |
But for this i would need ideas about cubic nodes :) |
| 21:02 |
Sokomine |
aah. create their own mod :-) maybe they have own ideas about what they want? |
| 21:02 |
AndroBuilder |
Aweso me if those ideas would all suit one topic but mh |
| 21:03 |
AndroBuilder |
They might but don't realize how dificult it would be |
| 21:03 |
Sokomine |
even that could work to a degree. they can decide on a common project and start by creating a simple block for it |
| 21:04 |
AndroBuilder |
Like what |
| 21:04 |
rubenwardy |
AndroBuilder: awards.register_on_unlock(func(playername, awarddef)) |
| 21:04 |
AndroBuilder |
Deco obj. are not cubic 1mx1m |
| 21:04 |
rubenwardy |
also awarddef.on_unlock = function(playername) end |
| 21:05 |
Sokomine |
i don't know. maybe there is some topic they're particulary intrested in? easter is past now. there have also been projects where students built their school |
| 21:05 |
rubenwardy |
AndroBuilder: https://github.com/rubenwardy/crafting/blob/master/init.lua#L29-L40 |
| 21:05 |
rubenwardy |
that's how the crafting mod allows awards to unlock crafts |
| 21:05 |
Sokomine |
ah. you mean more complex objects like meshes? how old are your students? |
| 21:06 |
AndroBuilder |
No meshes are to much they are 12-13 |
| 21:06 |
AndroBuilder |
rubenwardy thanks and this func should rewrite the allowed size of area for this player? |
| 21:07 |
rubenwardy |
err |
| 21:07 |
AndroBuilder |
They can use gimp |
| 21:07 |
rubenwardy |
on_unlock are callbacks |
| 21:07 |
AndroBuilder |
? |
| 21:07 |
rubenwardy |
the thing I linked was an example on how to add different prizes |
| 21:07 |
AndroBuilder |
Ah okay |
| 21:08 |
rubenwardy |
so if you do something similar to the crafting example, but rewrite the allowed area size instead, it'll work fine |
| 21:08 |
rubenwardy |
well |
| 21:08 |
rubenwardy |
if it's only one or two awards you may be better off putting it in on_unlock in the award definition |
| 21:08 |
AndroBuilder |
So far it seems to complexe to me to figure it out in combination with the area mod |
| 21:09 |
AndroBuilder |
Not sure even what they need to achieve |
| 21:11 |
rubenwardy |
documented on_unlock here: https://github.com/rubenwardy/awards/blob/master/README.md#registering-awards |
| 21:18 |
Sokomine |
if it's nothing ingame but rather "creating a new block", "write a small mod", "creating a texture" etc then maybe you'll be better off by writing a small mod that stores how large an area each player is supposed to have? |
| 21:20 |
Sokomine |
the rewards mod is excellent for giving rewards for ingame achievements |
| 21:20 |
rubenwardy |
*awards |
| 21:20 |
rubenwardy |
!mod [rewards] |
| 21:20 |
MinetestBot |
rubenwardy: Could not find anything. |
| 21:21 |
rubenwardy |
\o/ |
| 21:21 |
AndroBuilder |
Both are seperate ideas Sokomine |
| 21:21 |
rubenwardy |
need to grab Wuzzy again to polish awards further |
| 21:23 |
Sokomine |
er...the awards mod is the reward for typing the mod name right :) |
| 21:23 |
rubenwardy |
XD |
| 21:23 |
rubenwardy |
cool |
| 21:25 |
|
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| 21:27 |
Fixer |
wuzzieing intensifies |
| 21:28 |
AndroBuilder |
^^ |
| 21:32 |
AndroBuilder |
Is it possible to Change the size a certain user can protect by user? |
| 21:32 |
tumeninodes |
Few know "Wuzzy", describes a one who is a Wuzzyist..., in a sentence: "Wuzz like that, now it be like this." |
| 21:33 |
tumeninodes |
correction> Wuzzymist |
| 21:35 |
AndroBuilder |
What is the difference between sofar s hunger mod and tenplus1 |
| 21:36 |
rubenwardy |
one adds hunger to minetest |
| 21:36 |
rubenwardy |
the other is a well known community member |
| 21:36 |
AndroBuilder |
:-) i mean his hunger mod |
| 21:36 |
xerox123 |
hehe |
| 21:37 |
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| 21:39 |
Fixer |
wuzzy is very good with bugreports too |
| 21:41 |
Sokomine |
AndroBuilder: again, yes, but not without changes to the areas mod. not necessarily big or complex changes. the most complex part would be to somehow set which area size each player can protect |
| 21:41 |
Fixer |
participate in discussion https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/2103 |
| 21:43 |
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| 21:48 |
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| 21:48 |
Fixer |
https://i.imgur.com/Ua1v0dY.png ^____^ |
| 21:49 |
rubenwardy |
prohibited materials detected |
| 21:49 |
rubenwardy |
description: Heretic propoganda |
| 21:50 |
Fixer |
beta propaganda |
| 21:55 |
Fixer |
reminds me to disable mipmaps in minetest |
| 21:57 |
Fixer |
also saves VRAM i need |
| 21:57 |
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| 21:58 |
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sniper338 joined #minetest-hub |
| 22:06 |
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| 22:27 |
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| 22:40 |
tumeninodes |
for crying out loud, who is handling topic move requests on the forum lately? :D Traffic's backing up, it only gets deeper. |
| 22:40 |
* tumeninodes |
is away from his desk, please leave a mssg after the beep |
| 22:43 |
Shara |
tumeninodes: your post was missing license info I think |
| 22:43 |
Shara |
Fix it and I'll move it for you |
| 22:44 |
tumeninodes |
? 0_o license be in the folder |
| 22:44 |
Shara |
It should be in the forum post |
| 22:45 |
tumeninodes |
thpltpltplt |
| 22:45 |
Shara |
So people know what the license is before they go clicking links |
| 22:45 |
tumeninodes |
dang license justice warriors |
| 22:45 |
Shara |
Sorry! :D |
| 22:51 |
tumeninodes |
tada https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16423 |
| 22:54 |
Shara |
Moved it :) |
| 22:55 |
tumeninodes |
thank you very much |
| 22:55 |
Shara |
No problem. I did a bunch of them the other day and didn't get through them all :( |
| 22:56 |
Shara |
It's not usually me who does them, so hadn't realised how many were waiting |
| 22:56 |
rubenwardy |
was me for a long while |
| 22:56 |
rubenwardy |
then uni happened |
| 22:56 |
rubenwardy |
so a void formed |
| 22:56 |
tumeninodes |
yes they have been backing up. Takes time to review |
| 22:57 |
tumeninodes |
I miss kaeza :( |
| 22:58 |
tumeninodes |
quite a few people actually... |
| 23:00 |
tumeninodes |
too bad someone could not code up an automatic code reviewer ; ) |
| 23:02 |
tumeninodes |
wait? wasn't there kaezabot or something before which kinda did such? |
| 23:02 |
rubenwardy |
sfan5 madeone |
| 23:02 |
rubenwardy |
didn't move things though |
| 23:02 |
tumeninodes |
yes that was it |
| 23:14 |
Sokomine |
i havn't really checked which of my mods need moving. the forum is a huge list of unread messages, with the older ones only accessible through krocks mod search or google |
| 23:27 |
tumeninodes |
uh oh |
| 23:29 |
longerstaff13 |
o/ |
| 23:30 |
longerstaff13 |
yeah where is kaeza lately? |
| 23:58 |
Hijiri |
maybe he caught a kazea |
