| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:27 |
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| 00:39 |
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| 01:29 |
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| 05:48 |
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| 08:56 |
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tenplus1 joined #minetest-hub |
| 08:56 |
tenplus1 |
hi folks |
| 10:47 |
tenplus1 |
Ambience Lite updated to 1.1 - Many new features and is lighter - https://github.com/tenplus1/ambience |
| 10:49 |
|
Krock joined #minetest-hub |
| 10:49 |
tenplus1 |
o/ Krock |
| 10:49 |
Krock |
hi tenplus1 |
| 10:49 |
Krock |
:D |
| 10:50 |
tenplus1 |
hows things ? |
| 10:51 |
Krock |
fine! I just rebased and tested an older PR successfully.. and then found this command: curl wttr.in/London |
| 10:51 |
Krock |
amazing website :) |
| 10:51 |
tenplus1 |
wha's that do ? |
| 10:51 |
Krock |
it shows the weather |
| 10:52 |
tenplus1 |
ohh, heh |
| 10:52 |
tenplus1 |
ooh, fancy :))) |
| 10:53 |
tenplus1 |
needs a rather large console to work tho :D |
| 10:53 |
tenplus1 |
works for my wee town... w00t! |
| 10:54 |
tenplus1 |
thansk for sharing :)))) here's something in return: https://github.com/tenplus1/ambience |
| 10:57 |
tenplus1 |
brb |
| 11:04 |
Krock |
nice. *clones* |
| 11:05 |
tenplus1 |
lol |
| 11:45 |
|
Fixer joined #minetest-hub |
| 11:46 |
tenplus1 |
o/ Fixer |
| 11:56 |
Wayward_One |
Hi all :) |
| 11:56 |
tenplus1 |
hi wayward |
| 12:05 |
Fixer |
hi |
| 12:14 |
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Mr_Pardison joined #minetest-hub |
| 12:14 |
tenplus1 |
hi mister |
| 12:14 |
Mr_Pardison |
hai |
| 12:15 |
tenplus1 |
o/// |
| 12:16 |
tenplus1 |
wow, quick visit :P |
| 12:25 |
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aerozoic joined #minetest-hub |
| 12:25 |
tenplus1 |
hi aerozoic |
| 12:27 |
aerozoic |
wazup tenplus1 |
| 12:28 |
tenplus1 |
nothing much :P tinkering as always, you ? |
| 12:39 |
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lumberJ joined #minetest-hub |
| 12:39 |
tenplus1 |
hi lumberJ |
| 12:39 |
lumberJ |
hey tenplus1 |
| 12:41 |
aerozoic |
tenplus1, just tryin to figure out how to fix all the shit that went wrong updating to andriod 8. |
| 12:42 |
tenplus1 |
eek, what happened ? |
| 12:42 |
aerozoic |
some apps don't work. Settings didn't save. Some settings now appear to be completely gone, etc... |
| 12:43 |
xerox123 |
tenplus1: does Ambiance add all the background noises? |
| 12:43 |
xerox123 |
also, there a mod that tilt's player heads when they look up/down? |
| 12:43 |
tenplus1 |
hi xerox, yes it comes with the sound files (1.2mb only)... and if you have a sounds folder inside your minetest one you can add your own music files :) |
| 12:43 |
tenplus1 |
yeah seen that one :) it's good but laggy |
| 12:44 |
xerox123 |
s/there/is there/ |
| 12:46 |
tenplus1 |
PlayerAnim mod is used on the TPS servers |
| 12:59 |
Shara |
Hello :) |
| 12:59 |
tenplus1 |
hi Shara |
| 13:00 |
Shara |
Hi ten :) |
| 13:00 |
tenplus1 |
hows things ? |
| 13:00 |
Shara |
Not bad thanks. How's it going? |
| 13:00 |
tenplus1 |
tried but okie :) you ? |
| 13:00 |
* Shara |
points up :P |
| 13:00 |
tenplus1 |
heh... |
| 13:01 |
tenplus1 |
to me.... to you.... to me :P |
| 13:01 |
Shara |
Should work on mods... but feeling a little mindless |
| 13:01 |
tenplus1 |
lazy saturday |
| 13:02 |
tenplus1 |
spend an hour tinkering, am done now... watching movie :D |
| 13:02 |
Shara |
hehe |
| 13:03 |
Shara |
Since most of what I'm working on can't be used on server yet, modding feels different for me lately |
| 13:03 |
tenplus1 |
you'll see the fruits of your labor soon enough :D |
| 13:04 |
Shara |
not sure.. making a game is slow |
| 13:04 |
tenplus1 |
yup |
| 13:04 |
Shara |
Sure, there are ways to cut corners, and just reuse a bunch of things, but that's nto really what I want to do |
| 13:04 |
Shara |
not* |
| 13:06 |
tenplus1 |
updated mobs animals and ambience lite and farming redo |
| 13:06 |
tenplus1 |
but I'm wroried about group crafting, am getting weirdness |
| 13:07 |
Shara |
I took a quick look at that and realised I wasn't sure why your PR used an override. Didn't have chance to look into it yet though |
| 13:08 |
tenplus1 |
I couldnt add the {food_wheat = 1} group to wheat while it was being registered in default farming, has to be an override |
| 13:08 |
Shara |
So it's just due to how farming registers things/.' |
| 13:08 |
Shara |
? |
| 13:09 |
tenplus1 |
yeah... the register_plant function sets groups for nodes and craftitems like seed and crop internally, it's a pain in the ass |
| 13:09 |
Shara |
Hmm, just that this might be needed for other things... and then they'd all need overrides, so it would probably be better to change that? |
| 13:10 |
tenplus1 |
personally I'd register the wheat/cotton crop seperately from the growing stages and seed |
| 13:10 |
tenplus1 |
but who knows how many other mods use it already as-is ?!?! |
| 13:11 |
Shara |
Like I said, haven't looked at it, but surely it could be done in a way that if you don't pass in specific groups, then nothing changes |
| 13:11 |
tenplus1 |
the add_plant function does include a group definition, but isnt used |
| 13:12 |
tenplus1 |
and even if it were, what would use it ? crop, seed, food item ?!?! |
| 13:12 |
Shara |
It just seems weird to me that you create a situation where the mod has to override it's own items |
| 13:12 |
tenplus1 |
easier to register it all seperately like I do in redo |
| 13:14 |
Shara |
I've never looked at farming too closley |
| 13:14 |
Shara |
I can't even easily update to your redo |
| 13:15 |
tenplus1 |
the register function tries to handle too much I feel |
| 13:15 |
tenplus1 |
but redo is a drop in replacement for it and it all works |
| 13:15 |
Shara |
So everything about farming became just too annoying to look at unless it starts giving me errors :P |
| 13:15 |
Shara |
your rdo doesn't have all the nodes mine has, so I mostly use it, but have to manually adjust any time I update |
| 13:16 |
tenplus1 |
the sand_soil and wet_sand_soil are the only things it loses, but those have aliases set |
| 13:16 |
Shara |
It was the scarecrows too |
| 13:16 |
tenplus1 |
you talking farming plus ??? |
| 13:16 |
Shara |
I don't know which way round it was to be honest, but I switched from oen to the other at some point |
| 13:17 |
Shara |
but to not lose things, had to make adjustments |
| 13:17 |
tenplus1 |
ah, thought you were talking about default farming :) |
| 13:17 |
tenplus1 |
redo has decent compatibility with plus, it aliases many things as replacements and scarecrows end up being jack'o'lanterns |
| 13:17 |
Shara |
It's just why all farming mods annoy me now :) |
| 13:17 |
Shara |
Yea, that's the issue.. I don't want the as jack o lanterns, I want them as scarecrows |
| 13:18 |
tenplus1 |
I've seen players build better scarecrows with default nodes anyhoo :D |
| 13:18 |
Shara |
Sorry, but I don't care. :P |
| 13:18 |
Shara |
I want them |
| 13:18 |
tenplus1 |
will look into it... |
| 13:18 |
Shara |
I'm not messing up players builds, because they have already used them now |
| 13:19 |
Shara |
I could probably stick the scarecrow in another mod and try and work something out... but then it gets messy |
| 13:20 |
tenplus1 |
will add it with same textures/model and alias set |
| 13:20 |
tenplus1 |
just need to check license |
| 13:21 |
Shara |
I'm just hoping to get to the point where I can stop adjusting so many mods |
| 13:21 |
Shara |
It was needed in the past, but I learned enough now that I hope it's not so needed |
| 13:21 |
Shara |
ANd then updating can be easier :) |
| 13:22 |
tenplus1 |
heh |
| 13:22 |
tenplus1 |
checking farming_plus now |
| 13:22 |
Shara |
:) |
| 13:23 |
|
IhrFussel joined #minetest-hub |
| 13:24 |
tenplus1 |
hi fussel |
| 13:24 |
IhrFussel |
tenplus1, if a mod that runs per globalstep is "laggy" then it mostly means other mods lag the server a lot... playeranim takes less than 1 ms to execute but if other mods cause longer lags of course the animations will get stuck and look jaggy |
| 13:26 |
IhrFussel |
Or choppy* |
| 13:26 |
tenplus1 |
30 players using globalstep and checking/moving player bones in the model is laggy |
| 13:26 |
tenplus1 |
even singleplayer |
| 13:31 |
IhrFussel |
I don't find it that laggy on my server...mostly max_lag is 0.3 ... of course you will not get fluid movement cause that's impossible |
| 13:33 |
tenplus1 |
it does add some well needed character to the player model :) moving heads is good |
| 13:36 |
IhrFussel |
The core devs don't seem to be interested in head movement however |
| 13:40 |
Shara |
Interested and prioritising it over other things... not the same :P |
| 13:41 |
tenplus1 |
it's the little features that make a game |
| 13:41 |
Shara |
Yes, but lots of things are more important than a moving head |
| 13:41 |
tenplus1 |
true |
| 13:42 |
IhrFussel |
Shara, the general opinion on most things is "use mods" |
| 13:43 |
Shara |
Not seeing how that is relevant to what I said |
| 13:43 |
Shara |
unless someone makes a decent PR to add it properly, you'll never actually know who may really be interested in supporting it |
| 13:43 |
IhrFussel |
"use mods" to me means "we will not add that to our engine" |
| 13:44 |
Shara |
quite often means they don't have time or consider it high enough priority to make it thesmelves |
| 13:44 |
Shara |
not that they would not consider it if someone is going to help out |
| 13:44 |
Fixer |
wonder how minecraft is doing head movement |
| 13:46 |
Shara |
I mean, it's certainly something I'd support, for whatever that's worth, but I have zero intrest in trying to improve on the current mod myself (because time) |
| 13:46 |
IhrFussel |
Instead of implementing small features players really need (head movement, wield view, knockback) people rather add new mapgens |
| 13:46 |
Shara |
headmovement is a need? |
| 13:47 |
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lisac_ joined #minetest-hub |
| 13:47 |
IhrFussel |
I would consider it a basic feature in a sandbox game |
| 13:47 |
Shara |
Sorry, but that's a joke |
| 13:47 |
Shara |
I would liek to see it done well, but it's not a need |
| 13:47 |
Fixer |
new mapgens are nice. we have good selection already, gameplay aspect is overloocked sadly |
| 13:48 |
Fixer |
mtg is insanely conservative |
| 13:48 |
IhrFussel |
We will both have different opinions on what needs to be included in "basic features" obviously but what I don't understand is that people rather work on BIG things |
| 13:48 |
IhrFussel |
It makes no sense |
| 13:48 |
Shara |
what people seem to forget is that no one is going to rush to work on a thing they don't personally care about. |
| 13:48 |
Fixer |
if you are patient enough to wait 50 years to habebasic features in :) |
| 13:49 |
Shara |
Now if those who cared enough tried helping... |
| 13:49 |
IhrFussel |
You should rather work on smaller things cause you can code more of those |
| 13:49 |
Fixer |
have basic* |
| 13:49 |
Shara |
Fussel, so you get to dictate what I should work on for MTG then? |
| 13:49 |
Fixer |
opposing force is stronger |
| 13:50 |
IhrFussel |
You already work on smaller things right now |
| 13:50 |
Shara |
More than one time, I wanted a thing the devs didn't really care to work on themselves. Eventually made PRs myself... they got accepted |
| 13:50 |
Shara |
I really suggest you try the same |
| 13:51 |
Fixer |
Shara: no, it seems everyone accepted that MTG is fate is bare bone not really a game sandbox with very minimal features, this leaves very little room to expansion, what we need is new game alongside it |
| 13:51 |
Fixer |
mtg fate* |
| 13:51 |
Shara |
Fixer, I'm working on one of those too |
| 13:51 |
IhrFussel |
I have no time for c++ I work fulltime on my server and add new things rapidly |
| 13:52 |
Shara |
But I honestly think the biggest problem with MTG is everyone's combined attitude toward it |
| 13:52 |
Fixer |
"What happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object?" - this is MTG development in a nutshell :D |
| 13:53 |
IhrFussel |
I'm not talking about MTG though.... MTG is just a mod collection pretty much... what I want is more basic features in-engine and not in mods |
| 13:53 |
Shara |
If it is only capable of being minimal base and nothing more, I guess I should go remove fireflies now then |
| 13:53 |
Fixer |
Shara: minetest and minetest game development is very opposing in nature |
| 13:54 |
Shara |
Fussel, sure, so does everyone, but you fun thing is you say "I have no time" then expect others to |
| 13:54 |
Shara |
Fixer: I wonder why... maybe because people keep insisting everything is bad, then it is? |
| 13:54 |
Fixer |
only few will get in, because meh, MTG is supposed to be simple blah blah, full stop |
| 13:54 |
Shara |
Waste all energy moanign instead of doing. |
| 13:54 |
Fixer |
no |
| 13:54 |
Shara |
moaning* |
| 13:54 |
Fixer |
nothing is accepted |
| 13:54 |
Fixer |
much |
| 13:54 |
IhrFussel |
Cause there are quite a few people working on c++ code... my issue is them working on things (almost) nobody asked for |
| 13:55 |
Fixer |
people are working on engine, but only 1 is working on game itself, very very limited game |
| 13:55 |
Shara |
Uhh |
| 13:55 |
Fixer |
simplified a bit |
| 13:55 |
Shara |
Okay, I'll leave MTG then since apparently I'm not working on it? |
| 13:56 |
Fixer |
Shara: what you need is to argue with paramat about MTG future |
| 13:56 |
Fixer |
people don't have for that |
| 13:56 |
Fixer |
in his opinion - it was intended as simple game, mod base, etc, that leaves very little room to improvement/additions etc |
| 13:56 |
Shara |
I look at MTG things pretty much every day. But apaprently only paramat works on it |
| 13:57 |
Fixer |
mostly he is |
| 13:57 |
Fixer |
everyone lost interest in MTG long ago, because of big conservatism and opposition to make it full game, instead of small sandbox |
| 13:57 |
Shara |
I guess I don't exist and nothign I do exists then |
| 13:58 |
Fixer |
this is simplified look |
| 13:58 |
Shara |
It's an incorrect one |
| 13:58 |
Shara |
Because you made up your mind and that's the end to it for you |
| 13:59 |
Fixer |
say paramat wants minetest game to be like a wooden box, so it is wooden box, you can't add hands to it or make car of it :D |
| 13:59 |
Wayward_One |
People spend time on what they are able to do and interests them. You can't really expect people to devote their free time to something they don't enjoy |
| 13:59 |
Shara |
I disagree with your interpretations in full |
| 14:00 |
Shara |
Can paramat be overly conservative sometimes? Sure. But I've made him change his mind on more than one thing (hint: I didn't do it by moaning or insulting) |
| 14:00 |
Fixer |
i can already judge extreme conservatism after 7 years of watching MTG development |
| 14:01 |
Shara |
7 years... a lot changes, including the people involved, in that time |
| 14:01 |
IhrFussel |
Wayward_One, and THAT is one huge disadvantage of OSS ... if people work at a company they HAVE TO do what the boss says else they are fired... and that is also why companies can complete their programs so fast |
| 14:01 |
Shara |
Fussel, you are stating the obvious :) |
| 14:02 |
IhrFussel |
I know but I had to repeat it again ... IMO it's worthless if someone works on something I don't need |
| 14:02 |
Shara |
Decide to run servers on an open source game.. then decide the problem is that it's open source and the devs are volunteers? :) |
| 14:03 |
Shara |
Lol, that's really selfish of you. |
| 14:03 |
Shara |
Just because you don't need or want a thing, doesn't mean no one does |
| 14:03 |
Fixer |
how much MTG changed in 7 years? more good blocks added, carts, keys, kindamap, binoculars, slippery, nicer biomes, steel and flint, fireflies |
| 14:03 |
IhrFussel |
That's not selfish, it's normal ... it wouldn't give me anything |
| 14:03 |
Fixer |
and jump trick was disabled by default |
| 14:03 |
Fixer |
but that is not part of the game |
| 14:03 |
Fixer |
also, few ores added |
| 14:03 |
Shara |
Yes, it's selfish, because it's you only caring about you and not about what other users care about |
| 14:04 |
Fixer |
but gameplay itself is not changed |
| 14:04 |
IhrFussel |
Okay let me rephrase: If someone works on something the community clearly doesn't need (as much as other things) then it will not make them happy |
| 14:04 |
Shara |
See, that's better. |
| 14:04 |
Fixer |
there is no 3d mods, no armour, tools still unbalanced, no sprinting debate, no hangar debate, no mobs, no automation |
| 14:04 |
Fixer |
3d models* |
| 14:05 |
Shara |
Well Fixer, all i can say is that as someone trying to us ethe tiny bit of spare time I get to make any difference at all, the fact that you judge me to not even exist as far as MTG goes, is hugely demotivating. |
| 14:05 |
Fixer |
it is not about you, you came relatively recently |
| 14:06 |
Shara |
No, it's not about me, but how can anyone feel happy or good contributing when you and others are thorwing round endless negativity? |
| 14:06 |
tenplus1 |
Farming Redo updated, scarecrow bottom added |
| 14:06 |
Shara |
You want change and help make an environment where it's less likely to happen |
| 14:06 |
Fixer |
tenplus1: nice |
| 14:07 |
Fixer |
Shara: you can't change much since paramat is opposed, because game is meant to be simple, end of story |
| 14:07 |
tenplus1 |
5x sticks in cross shape gives you wooden base, compatible with farming_plus' scarecrow bottom also |
| 14:07 |
Shara |
Just nothign I see lately matches anything you say |
| 14:07 |
Shara |
nothing* |
| 14:11 |
tenplus1 |
?? |
| 14:12 |
Shara |
Fixer's massive negativity and ideas nothing can change |
| 14:13 |
IhrFussel |
MTG gets 1/10th as many PRs as MTE ... I bet that's largely cause barely anyone knows what paramat and others even want in MTG |
| 14:13 |
Shara |
Fussel, I'm the first to admit that's the hardest part |
| 14:13 |
Fixer |
Shara: i only hope paramat will not be opposed to your changes, that will be fine |
| 14:13 |
Shara |
But the negativity seems likely to prevent people from even trying |
| 14:14 |
Fixer |
it is not just negativity, it is mostly dead, if you check engine activity and game activity, it is very sad :( |
| 14:14 |
Shara |
Fixer, he's the one who asked to add fireflies.. and has also asked that I add butterflies. I know these are very small things and don't magically fix the game, but it's showing new content can happen, even directly at his request |
| 14:15 |
Shara |
And yes, it's sad... but I really think the kinds of comments you make put people off who might otherwise be interested |
| 14:15 |
* tenplus1 |
is so depressed now, eating donuts to compensate :P |
| 14:15 |
Fixer |
you can't go anywhere without paramat approval in MTG |
| 14:16 |
Fixer |
pretty much, he has a veto power de facto |
| 14:16 |
Shara |
What I want to see is at least one more (maybe more..) alternative official games, so people can then choose depending on what they want. |
| 14:16 |
Shara |
Fixer: No, he doesn't :) |
| 14:16 |
Wayward_One |
Lol ten :P |
| 14:16 |
Shara |
tenplus1: send me one please?? |
| 14:16 |
IhrFussel |
Maybe you should offer some kind of "service" where people can state their ideas and you can then discuss them ... I mean something outside github something simpler..like an email |
| 14:16 |
* tenplus1 |
has chocolate and raspberry :))))))) *shares* |
| 14:16 |
Shara |
Bring them up here? |
| 14:17 |
Shara |
Sadly a lot of what peopel bring up does have problems, but there's also things that I am pretty sure could get support |
| 14:17 |
Shara |
wield view for example.. this should be included |
| 14:17 |
IhrFussel |
Or you should write down somewhere (maybe forum?) what kind of additions you will definitely not accept...like vehicles |
| 14:19 |
IhrFussel |
Or make criterias for additions...there are multiple ways to take the "fear" of people |
| 14:19 |
Shara |
I even wrote a list before, but it didn't seem to help |
| 14:20 |
Shara |
Sadly wieldview needs model work, and that's not something I can help with |
| 14:22 |
tenplus1 |
doesnt stu already have a wield3d mod that shows what you are holding without new player model ? |
| 14:22 |
Fixer |
tenplus1: he does, and there is one more mod for that |
| 14:23 |
Shara |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1447 |
| 14:23 |
Fixer |
Shara: i only hope you will succeed in adding something useful and needed into MTG |
| 14:23 |
tenplus1 |
https://github.com/stujones11/wield3d |
| 14:23 |
Shara |
Well, maybe people should make what they find needed clear as well. |
| 14:24 |
Fixer |
wield3d and wieldview are available for ages, yet this basic stuff was not merged in, thankfully, carts were merged |
| 14:24 |
|
newbie|2 joined #minetest-hub |
| 14:24 |
IhrFussel |
Well I'd say fireflies are part of "gameplay aspect" so Shara helped the community in a way |
| 14:24 |
Fixer |
yes, they are, but thats only first small step |
| 14:25 |
IhrFussel |
Yeah but not sure how "big" a feature can be in MTG |
| 14:25 |
Shara |
Current way I'm working, is main focus on my own game, but then if something worked on there seems important for MTG as well, I'm hoping it can be considered for both. |
| 14:25 |
IhrFussel |
paramat wants everything to be tiny and lightweight, no room for something more special |
| 14:25 |
tenplus1 |
wb twoelk |
| 14:25 |
Shara |
I won't do that with everything of course, since some things simply won't work in MTG, and I also want my own game to stay unique |
| 14:25 |
Fixer |
IhrFussel: be lucky, we have carts in MTG, thats like building of nuclear reactor at home kinda hard |
| 14:26 |
twoelk |
o/ |
| 14:26 |
IhrFussel |
Carts that don't even work correctly yeah |
| 14:26 |
Fixer |
\o |
| 14:26 |
Fixer |
IhrFussel: file a bug (it is important), I checked it last time in singleplayer, it was fine |
| 14:26 |
Shara |
But Fixer, what other vital things are missing (which don't need models or engine changes)? |
| 14:26 |
IhrFussel |
At least on slopes they trap me in an endless loop |
| 14:27 |
IhrFussel |
sometimes* |
| 14:27 |
Fixer |
Shara: main part is here https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/515 |
| 14:27 |
Shara |
I'd rather real thoughts for now than years old discussion to struggle through |
| 14:28 |
Fixer |
Shara: problem is huge, it is debate on debate, i will start line by line |
| 14:28 |
Shara |
And you might already know I have been pushing hard for underground content |
| 14:28 |
Fixer |
1) 3d models - already discussed |
| 14:29 |
Fixer |
2) unbalanced tools, bronze is out of place, too many tools |
| 14:29 |
Fixer |
3) hangar/sprinting debate |
| 14:29 |
Fixer |
4) keeping stuff in invetory slot debate |
| 14:29 |
Fixer |
5) mob debate |
| 14:29 |
Fixer |
6) ambience debate (rare weather) |
| 14:29 |
Fixer |
7) automation debate |
| 14:30 |
Fixer |
8) autopickup or like in minecraft debate |
| 14:30 |
tenplus1 |
more tree schematics would be a good idea |
| 14:30 |
Fixer |
9) more tree schematics |
| 14:30 |
Fixer |
advocated by me btw |
| 14:30 |
tenplus1 |
make the forest areas and jungles more random looking instead of all at similar levels |
| 14:30 |
Fixer |
10) armour debate |
| 14:30 |
Fixer |
11) baked clay |
| 14:30 |
Fixer |
12) space, other realms debate |
| 14:30 |
tenplus1 |
use bakedclay mod, it's there if ya need it :P |
| 14:31 |
Fixer |
13) breaking chests debate |
| 14:31 |
tenplus1 |
13 ????? huh |
| 14:31 |
Shara |
Well there's PR hanging around for start of ambient sound, trees are being worked on, sprint needs some monoids feature and that's now being considered. Most you bring up needs models or engine change. |
| 14:31 |
Fixer |
right now you can't break up chest and pick up items like in minecraft, it goes in different way |
| 14:31 |
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Mr_Pardison joined #minetest-hub |
| 14:31 |
Fixer |
mc way is much easier |
| 14:31 |
tenplus1 |
wb mister |
| 14:31 |
Mr_Pardison |
Tanks. |
| 14:31 |
tenplus1 |
break chest and it drops all items inside ? |
| 14:31 |
Fixer |
14) no knockback |
| 14:32 |
Shara |
Personally I'd hate chests like that |
| 14:32 |
Shara |
But either way, this already sounds like your personal wishlist instead of actual vital things |
| 14:32 |
Fixer |
15) no throwing api |
| 14:32 |
Fixer |
you can go different way |
| 14:32 |
Fixer |
look what servers add |
| 14:32 |
tenplus1 |
we need the player damage system to give reasons for damage... |
| 14:32 |
tenplus1 |
so mods can respond |
| 14:33 |
Fixer |
you will notice right away 3d models/sprinting/hangar/armour/foods/mobs |
| 14:33 |
twoelk |
been told everything is prepared for more interesting underground - just needs content |
| 14:33 |
Mr_Pardison |
tenplus1: like when a player kills another one? |
| 14:33 |
IhrFussel |
Work on MTG will never proceed if almost every thing someone comes up with and that lots of people actually want gets denied just because 1 or 2 MTG devs disagree with it |
| 14:33 |
tenplus1 |
if killed by player, return playername in hp_change... same with nodes that do damage or custom damage |
| 14:33 |
tenplus1 |
we need this |
| 14:34 |
Shara |
Ten, yes, that's needed, but surely that's an engien thing? |
| 14:34 |
IhrFussel |
It's kinda selfish to decide alone or as 2 people over something lots of other people brought up |
| 14:34 |
Fixer |
do not forget to use https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/515 as a discussion platform for MTG features |
| 14:34 |
tenplus1 |
also https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4503 oldie but a goodie |
| 14:34 |
Mr_Pardison |
IF we could do that, then someone could make a bounty hunting mod. |
| 14:34 |
tenplus1 |
we could finally have proper death messages and such |
| 14:34 |
Fixer |
yes, map layering, aka realms |
| 14:34 |
Fixer |
in a way |
| 14:34 |
Shara |
Mr P, i mentioned that just yesterday... |
| 14:35 |
tenplus1 |
we have 60,000 nodes going top to bottom, we NEED layering to help with realms |
| 14:35 |
Fixer |
yes |
| 14:35 |
Fixer |
and 30000 is empty space |
| 14:35 |
Mr_Pardison |
https://github.com/4Evergreen4/death_messages |
| 14:35 |
Shara |
Mr P, yea, there's lot sof ways to try and make it work right, but it's all pretty messy work arounds |
| 14:35 |
tenplus1 |
tried that mod, is ok but gets it wrong at times |
| 14:35 |
Mr_Pardison |
yeah. |
| 14:36 |
Fixer |
just my opinion, I always waited MTG to became something like late minecraft beta, with then inclusion of really different games alongside |
| 14:36 |
Shara |
Fixer: the moment you start talking about MC I simply can't help you. No frame of reference, because I've never played it |
| 14:36 |
Fixer |
also sad, to see no inclusion of Wuzzy Tutorial game, for usual reasons |
| 14:37 |
Shara |
I also dislike the idea of trying to copy MC. I'd just get MC if that was what I wanted |
| 14:37 |
Fixer |
remove , |
| 14:37 |
IhrFussel |
For a death message mod to work right you'd need to count nodes of a pretty high radius and then compare |
| 14:37 |
Mr_Pardison |
we need some way to get the game to register a PvP attack. Anyone have any ideas, just toss them out and let's see if they would work. |
| 14:37 |
Fixer |
Shara: MTG coppies early MC anyway |
| 14:37 |
Shara |
Fixer, maybe it does, but I certainly don't. |
| 14:37 |
Fixer |
Shara: MC beta = MTG + armour + mobs + simple automation |
| 14:37 |
Shara |
I'd rather judge things based on their own merrit, regardless of whether another game has or has not used them |
| 14:38 |
IhrFussel |
Or just get the 1st,2nd,3rd,4th etc nodes under/above you |
| 14:38 |
Fixer |
MC beta is extremally simple yet ideal as voxel game of choice |
| 14:38 |
twoelk |
erm - I think mt could well copy the one or other good stuff of other gamjes |
| 14:38 |
twoelk |
-j |
| 14:39 |
IhrFussel |
Don't forget that the death callback can be triggered lots of times while someone is dead...for example the stamina mod (AFAIK) causes the death callback to be called every few secs |
| 14:39 |
Shara |
twoelk: sure, and I don't mind that, but people seem to talk like they want to copy for the sake of copying, not necessarily because it's a good or the right thing to do |
| 14:39 |
Fixer |
MC beta = MTG + bow + armour + mobs (and their farming via water push) + simple automation (switch, plates, button, redstone) |
| 14:39 |
tenplus1 |
mc source is available for anyone who wants to take the time to port c++ to lua and copy it exactly :P |
| 14:40 |
Fixer |
it was considered more or less complete game in 2011, and I agree with that |
| 14:40 |
IhrFussel |
* could be fixed in 0.5.0 |
| 14:40 |
Shara |
I don't think another game having something is a reason not to use it, but I also don't want to include things just because anotehr game has them |
| 14:40 |
Fixer |
tenplus1: that is not legal, though |
| 14:40 |
tenplus1 |
eheheheh |
| 14:40 |
Fixer |
Shara: those things make game fun, MTG - does not make it fun |
| 14:40 |
Roger9_ |
What is backport-0.4? Is it a version of MT 0.4 with the ability to connect to 0.5 servers? |
| 14:40 |
Fixer |
the reason why nobody uses vanilla MTG on servers :D |
| 14:41 |
twoelk |
seeing how much time and effort players in other games invest in their ingame appearence, mt could win with some better skin/clothes/armor concept |
| 14:41 |
Shara |
Roger9_: it's like stable, but with bugfixes |
| 14:41 |
Roger9_ |
Shara: Ah. |
| 14:41 |
* Roger9_ |
yays |
| 14:41 |
Shara |
Fixer: personally I don't find adding armour or whatever is automatically fun |
| 14:42 |
Roger9_ |
How would I git clone the backport-0.4 branch? not used to doing that kind of thing |
| 14:42 |
Fixer |
Shara: it broads your vistas |
| 14:42 |
Roger9_ |
nvm, found it |
| 14:42 |
Shara |
Anyway, MT still doesn['t have a good armour mod in my opinion |
| 14:43 |
tenplus1 |
am still using the 0.4 branch of 3d armor |
| 14:43 |
Mr_Pardison |
g2g |
| 14:43 |
tenplus1 |
just updated it to use playerplus :P |
| 14:43 |
Fixer |
minetest damage handling is odd to me |
| 14:43 |
Shara |
I find 3d armor really poor |
| 14:43 |
Fixer |
in those armour mods |
| 14:43 |
Fixer |
i can stand in diamond armour and receive no damage from mobs, something is wrong here |
| 14:43 |
Shara |
the textures are bad, the way the mod is structured (when I last checked, no clue about now) was bad, the damage balance is terrible |
| 14:43 |
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CWz joined #minetest-hub |
| 14:44 |
tenplus1 |
armor levels needs to be tweaked |
| 14:44 |
tenplus1 |
hi CWz |
| 14:44 |
Shara |
z fighting when you try make your own textures (again, unless something last changed since...) |
| 14:45 |
Shara |
I don't understand why the modpack has three different inventory mods... I don't want to have mods running on my server that I have zero use for even if they do nothing... |
| 14:46 |
tenplus1 |
player:set_hp(new_hp, reason_for_change) |
| 14:47 |
twoelk |
maybe the hazmat suit should be in a place more apart |
| 14:47 |
Fixer |
heh https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/graphs/contributors |
| 14:48 |
Fixer |
paramat - 314 commits, sofar - 122 (wants mtg die), celeron55 - 70 (inactive), PilzAdam - 66 (inactive), tenplus1 - 46 (active), BlockMen (inactive) - 41, SmallJoker (active) - 24, ... |
| 14:49 |
tenplus1 |
sofar wants mtg to die ? wut ? |
| 14:49 |
Shara |
More realistic current view would be https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/graphs/contributors?from=2017-03-25&to=2018-03-24&type=c |
| 14:49 |
twoelk |
he said so |
| 14:50 |
twoelk |
but will still add fixes :-D |
| 14:50 |
tenplus1 |
erk |
| 14:51 |
twoelk |
I think something good might be to clean mtg more up and modularize it more |
| 14:51 |
Shara |
twoelk: yes, wuold be good |
| 14:51 |
tenplus1 |
that would make things easy to work with |
| 14:52 |
twoelk |
applying a clear system to all node names might be a start |
| 14:52 |
tenplus1 |
example plz |
| 14:52 |
Shara |
Can't change node names without making a huge mess |
| 14:53 |
xerox123 |
are 'clusters' a thing in minetest? or are they just a different word for blocks? |
| 14:53 |
tenplus1 |
would be great if we had a BASE library of items to use within games and mods though |
| 14:53 |
tenplus1 |
pain in the ass trying to craft something that needs milk when no mobs are isntalled for eg. |
| 14:53 |
Fixer |
i've suggested modularisation long ago |
| 14:56 |
Shara |
I like having things split so it's easy to remove individual bits you might not want |
| 14:56 |
twoelk |
Shara: make the mess as early as possible to get on with it |
| 14:56 |
Shara |
Or to replace them with something else |
| 14:56 |
Shara |
twoelk: bit late now. MTG isn't exactly a new project |
| 14:57 |
twoelk |
guess that's why sofar wants to kill it - too old to fix :-P |
| 14:57 |
Shara |
Change all the nodenames and either you break every existing world using MTG on next udpate, or you have to add a load of aliases... so you still have mess |
| 14:57 |
Shara |
You can however change descriptions... which is what the player actually sees |
| 14:58 |
tenplus1 |
since 0.5 breaks quite a few things it's prolly ok to start changing what you can get away with |
| 14:59 |
Shara |
0.5 isn't meant to break maps though |
| 15:00 |
tenplus1 |
true |
| 15:03 |
Fixer |
Shara: in that timeframe, paramat alone accounts for 45% of code additions, paramat + you = 60%, paramat + you + tumeni = 70%... |
| 15:04 |
Fixer |
if you look into code additions - it mostly paramat active, everyone else adds rarely, and you added recently |
| 15:07 |
Shara |
See why I would like more people to open PRs for some of these things then? |
| 15:10 |
Fixer |
hah, good luck with that |
| 15:10 |
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| 15:10 |
Fixer |
everyone knows it is hard to convince opposing force :) |
| 15:10 |
Shara |
then maybe convince me of ideas instead, so I can worry about that part :) |
| 15:11 |
Fixer |
we listed some already, have fun :D |
| 15:11 |
Shara |
You just gave your personal wish list |
| 15:11 |
Shara |
And paid no attention to criteria I set |
| 15:11 |
Fixer |
https://www.meme-arsenal.com/memes/fd8054c14bfacfaa9923003f79221a96.jpg |
| 15:12 |
Shara |
some solid suggestions of things I can work on, and I'd probably work on them |
| 15:12 |
Fixer |
Shara: armour and 3d models |
| 15:13 |
Shara |
See, what part of me saying I can't work on models did you not get? |
| 15:13 |
Fixer |
let me look into github |
| 15:14 |
Shara |
Things I'd love to see added are wield view and sprint. And I'd love better tool balance, but it's difficult to find a good way to do that |
| 15:14 |
Fixer |
Shara: ok, here is lazy stuff for you: rebalance the tools (evil laugh) |
| 15:15 |
Shara |
Hehe |
| 15:15 |
Shara |
I would like to |
| 15:15 |
Amaz |
Getting tools balanced well is hard. |
| 15:15 |
Shara |
Very hard. |
| 15:15 |
tenplus1 |
o/ amaz |
| 15:15 |
Shara |
It's much easy when starting from scratch and you can plan the system |
| 15:15 |
Amaz |
Yeah |
| 15:15 |
Shara |
easier* |
| 15:16 |
Amaz |
Hi ten :) |
| 15:16 |
Shara |
But MTG only has three levels of tool as well from what I recall, which doesn't really give many possibilities |
| 15:16 |
Fixer |
Shara: that's the problem with MTG, you can't add, you can't remove because reasons |
| 15:16 |
Amaz |
Especially when you can give all the nodes custom groups, to allow more fine tuning. |
| 15:17 |
Shara |
Well the only reason not to add more tools/ores is because there's already more than we have good use for |
| 15:17 |
Fixer |
i would rather throw out half the tools and simplified them, but that will "break the mods" |
| 15:17 |
Fixer |
and that tin debacle |
| 15:17 |
Fixer |
MTG is silly :) |
| 15:17 |
Shara |
I still don't get why anyone thought it was good to add more metals |
| 15:18 |
Fixer |
if someone wants space and rocketry here - it makes sense in a future |
| 15:18 |
Fixer |
as of now most of them are decorative |
| 15:18 |
tenplus1 |
tool progression is important... it SHOULD be flint -> stone -> iron -> bronze -> steel -> mese -> diamond |
| 15:18 |
Fixer |
tenplus1: too much steps :D |
| 15:18 |
Shara |
I still find diamond tools silly :) |
| 15:18 |
Fixer |
tenplus1: -> nuclear |
| 15:18 |
Fixer |
tenplus1: -> fission nuclear -> fusion nuclear actually -> singlularity in MTG |
| 15:19 |
tenplus1 |
we'll leave those last one's for the mods :D |
| 15:19 |
Shara |
Fixer, fix the iron/steel mess? :) |
| 15:19 |
Fixer |
Shara: everything is mess, not just this :( |
| 15:19 |
Fixer |
i can feel sofar breath on this |
| 15:19 |
Shara |
Yea, but you need to start somewhere |
| 15:19 |
Fixer |
you can't run car with square wheels |
| 15:20 |
Shara |
Good thing MTG doesn't have cars then |
| 15:20 |
Fixer |
Shara: paramat is lazy, he does not want to deal with that steel too deep |
| 15:20 |
Shara |
I don't think you can call person doing most of work lazy |
| 15:20 |
Fixer |
Shara: in regard to steel problem, i mean |
| 15:21 |
Shara |
Now I'd suggest a good solution tot his, but I am struggling to find one |
| 15:21 |
tenplus1 |
https://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Armor (scroll down to defense points) |
| 15:21 |
Fixer |
Shara: you can't, because it breaks everything unfortunately |
| 15:21 |
Shara |
So how to resolve it? |
| 15:21 |
Fixer |
Shara: break things :D |
| 15:22 |
Shara |
But in which way? |
| 15:22 |
Fixer |
alias or smth |
| 15:22 |
Shara |
So you want to change all steel things to iron? |
| 15:22 |
Fixer |
let me open minetest |
| 15:22 |
Fixer |
wait, you want to tackle steel itself? okay |
| 15:22 |
Shara |
well, any of this stuff |
| 15:22 |
Fixer |
do you want it realistic? |
| 15:22 |
Shara |
I'm open to any solution |
| 15:23 |
Fixer |
making steel takes several stages unfortunately |
| 15:23 |
Fixer |
you need to introduce charcoal into the game, but who wants it? |
| 15:23 |
Shara |
Is there any way to simplify it that would be a good balance? |
| 15:23 |
tenplus1 |
mixing iron and carbon = steel (easy recipe) |
| 15:23 |
Fixer |
not really |
| 15:24 |
Fixer |
you actually need to reduce amount of carbon in iron |
| 15:24 |
Shara |
I suspect your average child playing the game doesn't care much about realism |
| 15:24 |
tenplus1 |
https://ftb.gamepedia.com/Steel |
| 15:24 |
Fixer |
i have no idea how you can simplify it without breaking everything |
| 15:24 |
Shara |
But sticking iron in a furnace then getting steel ingot makes no sense, even to someone who doesn't understand metalwork |
| 15:25 |
Shara |
Steel ingots making iron bars.. again, no sense |
| 15:25 |
Fixer |
Shara: one way is just rename everything into wrought iron |
| 15:25 |
tenplus1 |
isnt that getting changed, I saw a pull earlier |
| 15:25 |
Fixer |
Shara: that is better way |
| 15:25 |
Fixer |
simpler way |
| 15:26 |
Fixer |
Shara: old way of smelting is charcoal + iron = blob of molten iron that you work with hammer into wrought iron (ingots are not possible with this it seems) |
| 15:27 |
Fixer |
ingot can be renamed into iron bars |
| 15:27 |
Shara |
tenplus1: depends on results of the debate :) |
| 15:27 |
Shara |
Fixer: so liek I said to begin, change steel to iron, but also break consistency of how each metal works, and also add hammer? |
| 15:27 |
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lokambert joined #minetest-hub |
| 15:27 |
tenplus1 |
hi loka |
| 15:27 |
Fixer |
Shara: hammer part is annoying |
| 15:27 |
Fixer |
and charcoal |
| 15:28 |
Fixer |
coal is not used in even old metal smelting it seems |
| 15:28 |
Shara |
(If anyone wants voice - PM an op please) |
| 15:30 |
twoelk |
coal was not used much at the beginning of metal age because it wasn't widely used for anything |
| 15:30 |
twoelk |
wood and charcoal was what was there in the beginning |
| 15:31 |
Shara |
Current furnace will use any fuel to convert any item which can be cooked |
| 15:31 |
Shara |
so even if you add charcoal, it's meaningless unless you somehow enforce which fuel is used |
| 15:32 |
Shara |
Or do you then want to remove the registrations for everything else that is currently a fuel? |
| 15:32 |
Shara |
(if you enforce use of one fuel, they are useless anyway) |
| 15:32 |
tenplus1 |
we could add levels to the cooking crafts... level 1 uses normal furnace, level 2 needs a blast furnace for instance |
| 15:32 |
tenplus1 |
blast furnaces go through fuel quicker |
| 15:32 |
twoelk |
but aside from that I'm slowly asuming a position to not simplify but change the very way tools are weighted ingame |
| 15:32 |
Shara |
tools and materials are two different (closely related) issues |
| 15:34 |
Shara |
But the ingots issue is bigger than iron to steel |
| 15:34 |
Shara |
Because if you want realism, I'm pretty sure burning grass won't allow you to making other ingots |
| 15:34 |
Shara |
make* |
| 15:35 |
twoelk |
except for some magic-fictional material I think steel should be the best basic toll/weapon/armour material - that could be enhanced by something else for specific purposes though |
| 15:35 |
Fixer |
twoelk: charcoal gives higher temperature |
| 15:35 |
twoelk |
eh, oil even more but doesn't work that way |
| 15:36 |
Amaz |
If you want realism, then you probably shouldn't be looking for it in a world made of cubes, where you can carry 3168 cubic meters of stone :P |
| 15:36 |
Shara |
^ |
| 15:36 |
Shara |
Exactly |
| 15:36 |
twoelk |
like adding diamonds makes drill better but is useless for sword |
| 15:36 |
Krock |
"magic-fictional material" *thinks of MESE* |
| 15:36 |
Fixer |
twoelk: look how this art is done today, they still use charcoal |
| 15:36 |
Shara |
SO this all just boils down to a question of... how much does realistic metalworking actually matter? |
| 15:36 |
Fixer |
yeah, at this point MTG is silly |
| 15:37 |
Shara |
I mean, iron ore to steel ingot to iron bar is ... beyond silly either way, but changing description is simple. |
| 15:37 |
twoelk |
metalworking is one place I would break free from mc and other games |
| 15:39 |
Shara |
Oddly, metalworking caused huge debates and disatisfaction in the last game I worked on... it seems to be one of those things where people have very different expectations |
| 15:39 |
twoelk |
interesting |
| 15:39 |
Amaz |
There's certainly no need to keep things as they are, if someone wants to, and more importantly has the time and energy to change it, but the most important aspect isn't realism, but what makes for a good game, and adds playability/interest to the game. |
| 15:39 |
tenplus1 |
for soft metals like iron, gold, copper a normal furnace is good |
| 15:39 |
Shara |
Yup, so my question is how it should work |
| 15:40 |
tenplus1 |
but making blast bricks to craft a blast furnace for the harder metals like steel etc would be a good progression |
| 15:40 |
Shara |
Because I mostly seem moans and/or complaints but no suggestions of actual working systems to use instead |
| 15:41 |
twoelk |
well you go to the doctor to tell him it hurts and expect him to tell you why |
| 15:41 |
Shara |
I'll also take suggestions for the game I'm working on as well, since I don't want it to have these issues |
| 15:41 |
* Shara |
hands everyone their own stethoscopes |
| 15:41 |
Fixer |
Amaz: yeah |
| 15:41 |
Shara |
You are all the doctors now |
| 15:42 |
Shara |
And MTG is hereby your patient |
| 15:42 |
Fixer |
also, bronze pickaxe? really? |
| 15:43 |
twoelk |
yep- it happened long ago in real life |
| 15:43 |
Shara |
bronze tools make sense if included in logical progression |
| 15:43 |
tenplus1 |
yup |
| 15:44 |
Shara |
stone to bronze to iron |
| 15:44 |
twoelk |
broze picks where better than those of antler |
| 15:44 |
Fixer |
"Though bronze is generally harder than wrought iron" |
| 15:44 |
tenplus1 |
blast brick = 2x iron ingots + 2x stone |
| 15:44 |
twoelk |
stone picks are surprisingly effective |
| 15:44 |
Fixer |
but we have steel tools :D |
| 15:44 |
tenplus1 |
9x blast bricks = blast furnace --- progression to level 2 smelting |
| 15:45 |
Shara |
In HW, tool progression planned so far puts steel as one of highest tiers |
| 15:45 |
twoelk |
yeah, early iron tools where pretty bad - but plenty - tin was rare |
| 15:45 |
Fixer |
"In many parts of the world, large hoards of bronze artifacts are found, suggesting that bronze also represented a store of value and an indicator of social status. In Europe, large hoards of bronze tools, typically socketed axes (illustrated above), are found, which mostly show no signs of wear." |
| 15:45 |
Fixer |
eh |
| 15:46 |
Fixer |
tenplus1: problem is then we need to convince paramat about this, actually about everything |
| 15:46 |
Fixer |
tenplus1: introducing second furnace will be hard to sell |
| 15:47 |
tenplus1 |
true, talking about it is one thing, making the code and textures and presenting the pull is another |
| 15:47 |
Shara |
my problem is that I can't see any real way to do it without losing lots of items, or adding lots... |
| 15:48 |
Shara |
doesn't mean something shouldn't change, but would probably need new uses for metals first |
| 15:48 |
Amaz |
In the system I'm in the very early stages of planning, different materials are good for different things. e.g. Bronze is good for weapons, not so good for mining, mithril is good for armour, but not too much else, steel is good for mining, and different ways of making it make it suited for different purporses. (e.g. one way of making it is good for axes, but it needs to be made in another way for picka |
| 15:48 |
Amaz |
xes). |
| 15:48 |
tenplus1 |
not at all, if anything we'll be adding iron ore/ingot/block/tools and a new furnace... some change of recipes and adding level 1 or 2 to cooking requirements shouldnt be too bad |
| 15:49 |
Amaz |
Not overly realistic, but it should be interesting (with a lot more work *sigh*) |
| 15:49 |
tenplus1 |
the steel items and ingot we already have... |
| 15:49 |
Shara |
Ten, what I see is iron getting added in addition to steel, current steel tools becoming iron ones, then steel tools being some higher rank |
| 15:50 |
Shara |
But can't see how to justify new metal either |
| 15:51 |
Fixer |
lol |
| 15:51 |
Fixer |
eh |
| 15:53 |
twoelk |
I think convincing paramat or any other dev wouldn't be too hard if it is a working solution and it is not expected for them to fix all issues |
| 15:55 |
Fixer |
"The Chinese of the Warring States period (403–221 BC) had quench-hardened steel,[22] while Chinese of the Han dynasty (202 BC – 220 AD) created steel by melting together wrought iron with cast iron, gaining an ultimate product of a carbon-intermediate steel by the 1st century AD" |
| 15:55 |
tenplus1 |
ooh |
| 15:56 |
Fixer |
still not good |
| 15:56 |
Fixer |
"Since the 17th century, the first step in European steel production has been the smelting of iron ore into pig iron in a blast furnace. Originally employing charcoal, modern methods use coke, which has proven more economical" |
| 15:56 |
Fixer |
"pig iron was refined (fined) in a finery forge to produce bar iron, which was then used in steel-making." |
| 15:57 |
Shara |
twoelk: this is my thought as well. |
| 15:57 |
Fixer |
"The raw material for this process were bars of iron" |
| 15:57 |
tenplus1 |
at present I'm more concerned with this damned craft recipe glitch when using groups |
| 15:58 |
Fixer |
hm |
| 15:58 |
tenplus1 |
recipe works perfectly fine in singleplayer, but on server it's botched and I dunno why... cant get to the bottom of it |
| 16:00 |
twoelk |
wasn't ther a recipe conflict checker on the forum somewhere? |
| 16:01 |
tenplus1 |
that's the thing, the recipe in question is fine... been checked and works ok, just NOT on xanadu |
| 16:01 |
twoelk |
btw have started a singleplayer world with new farming_redo version - not quite convinced yet |
| 16:01 |
Fixer |
Shara: easiest way is to rename everything into wrought iron and be done with it, OCD will be lowered |
| 16:02 |
tenplus1 |
yeah, have mod add steel :P ehehehe |
| 16:02 |
tenplus1 |
twoelk: any issues ? |
| 16:02 |
twoelk |
xanadu is evolving a mind of it's own |
| 16:02 |
Fixer |
machine learning |
| 16:02 |
twoelk |
nah just gameplaywise |
| 16:03 |
twoelk |
will xanadu become gaia or skynet or ... |
| 16:03 |
tenplus1 |
lol, hopefully not... dont want it taking over anything if I can help it :D |
| 16:04 |
tenplus1 |
any gameplay ya dont like lemmie know, can always tweak |
| 16:05 |
Shara |
I'd be fine just renaming things to iron |
| 16:05 |
twoelk |
you are missing the point it allready has taken over your life and that of many a player |
| 16:05 |
Shara |
tenplus1: new farming stuff on Xanadu now? |
| 16:05 |
Shara |
I want to check it if so |
| 16:06 |
twoelk |
not just new stuff but also new procedures |
| 16:06 |
tenplus1 |
yeh |
| 16:06 |
tenplus1 |
just updated |
| 16:06 |
Fixer |
Shara: probably, yes |
| 16:06 |
* Shara |
plays the "can I remember my password?" game |
| 16:06 |
Fixer |
write down your passwords |
| 16:07 |
* Fixer |
REMOVES above sentence |
| 16:07 |
Fixer |
i still have not managed to join that train server |
| 16:07 |
Shara |
heh |
| 16:08 |
Fixer |
linuxworks 6/15 - too many players to join. ????????????? |
| 16:09 |
Shara |
SOmehow, it seems like deleting my inventory is always the first thing I do when joining Xanadu... |
| 16:09 |
Shara |
Where in the world do I pick up all this junk from? :D |
| 16:09 |
Fixer |
Shara: autopick up vs manual pick up debate! |
| 16:09 |
tenplus1 |
lol |
| 16:10 |
Fixer |
Shara: when you blow up some TNT, you end up with tons of drops you have to pickup manually right now |
| 16:10 |
Fixer |
thats reality we have |
| 16:11 |
Fixer |
other way is to autopickup them, that rises more issues down the road though |
| 16:11 |
* twoelk |
muses wether mtg should have inventory progression |
| 16:11 |
Fixer |
this is sad |
| 16:11 |
Fixer |
i now understand more why sofar wants it from scratch |
| 16:13 |
Fixer |
to really rethink it slowly |
| 16:20 |
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cx384 joined #minetest-hub |
| 16:21 |
tenplus1 |
hi cx384 |
| 16:21 |
cx384 |
hello |
| 16:26 |
rubenwardy |
IhrFussel: the aim of Minetest is to make a game engine which offers lots of customisability |
| 16:26 |
rubenwardy |
the easiest way to do this is to offload functionality from the engine to builtin and mods |
| 16:26 |
rubenwardy |
which is why you see that a lot |
| 16:27 |
rubenwardy |
that being said, knock back should be engine supported as it requires fancy networking |
| 16:27 |
rubenwardy |
not sure about head movement |
| 16:27 |
tenplus1 |
o/ ruben |
| 16:27 |
rubenwardy |
o/ |
| 16:33 |
Roger9_ |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2937 hm, per-texture per-node shaders seems like an interesting idea |
| 16:33 |
twoelk |
knockback should be considered fundamental for game interaction as there will always be unstatic content |
| 16:34 |
rubenwardy |
yes |
| 16:34 |
rubenwardy |
it's pretty important as a game mechanic |
| 16:34 |
rubenwardy |
not as important as say, lighting, however |
| 16:35 |
twoelk |
you could shove a pig of a cliff in the dark |
| 16:36 |
twoelk |
hey fixer you forgot all the lighting issues in your list |
| 16:36 |
Fixer |
those belong to engine mostly |
| 16:36 |
tenplus1 |
wasnt there a pull for knockback at one point and it was closed |
| 16:37 |
tenplus1 |
playerplus adds it as a mod tho |
| 16:37 |
Fixer |
yes, that knockback was not optimal |
| 16:37 |
Fixer |
was not configurable |
| 16:40 |
rubenwardy |
also, https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/projects/1 |
| 16:40 |
rubenwardy |
throwing, mobs, and ambient sounds are there |
| 16:43 |
Roger9_ |
it looks like only one change seems to be required for the per-player time offset PR by Arcelmi |
| 16:43 |
Roger9_ |
or maybe a couple |
| 16:44 |
rubenwardy |
I'm wondering if it's better to add a player:set_time() API and then do the current code in builtin |
| 16:44 |
rubenwardy |
I guess clients also run prediction on it |
| 16:45 |
rubenwardy |
and the sending is just for syncing |
| 16:45 |
rubenwardy |
Fixer, game#2097 |
| 16:45 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/2097 -- Add wield3d |
| 16:45 |
Roger9_ |
I guess you could use player:set_timeofday(minetest.get_timeofday() + offset) |
| 16:46 |
rubenwardy |
yeah |
| 16:46 |
Roger9_ |
s/use/do |
| 16:46 |
rubenwardy |
that's what built in would do |
| 16:46 |
Roger9_ |
depends how the time syncing system works though, does the server send its time of day to the client? |
| 16:47 |
rubenwardy |
it does |
| 16:47 |
rubenwardy |
but the client may also do time_speed itself |
| 16:47 |
Roger9_ |
whadya mean? |
| 16:50 |
Roger9_ |
can client set a different time_speed? |
| 16:50 |
Fixer |
rubenwardy: one problem with 3dweild was tools reversing 180 deg in hands for some reason |
| 16:51 |
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| 16:51 |
rubenwardy |
this is cool https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=19869 |
| 16:52 |
Roger9_ |
if the server sends its current time of day to the client then a time offset function for each player would make more sense... I think |
| 16:52 |
Fixer |
niiice |
| 16:52 |
Roger9_ |
rubenwardy: that is cool |
| 16:53 |
Fixer |
rubenwardy: do we have isometric view of world map btw? |
| 16:53 |
rubenwardy |
yes, est31 or xyz made one |
| 16:53 |
rubenwardy |
forget the name |
| 16:53 |
rubenwardy |
o something |
| 16:53 |
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| 16:54 |
Roger9_ |
if it's faster than loading the mapblocks themselves you might be able to add a LOD effect to minetest |
| 16:55 |
tenplus1 |
?? |
| 16:55 |
Roger9_ |
level of detail |
| 16:56 |
tenplus1 |
ohh |
| 16:56 |
Roger9_ |
basically, "loading" the world outside the render distance but with a lower detail, or using the seed and simplified version of the world generation algorithm to determine what would be there when you do load it |
| 16:57 |
Roger9_ |
although I'm pretty sure the problem my computer has with a render distance any higher than about 50 (20 on any server, and even *at* 20 itself on some servers!) is too high of a polygon count... maybe |
| 16:57 |
Roger9_ |
as the mapblocks/chunks/whatever you can't see are still loaded |
| 16:59 |
rubenwardy |
I'd love to see rendering improvements |
| 17:00 |
rubenwardy |
Far map is an attempt at LOD |
| 17:00 |
rubenwardy |
but it looked very odd |
| 17:00 |
Roger9_ |
^ |
| 17:00 |
rubenwardy |
very unreal |
| 17:00 |
Roger9_ |
far map? |
| 17:00 |
Roger9_ |
I found an open pull request #3502 if that's what you mean |
| 17:00 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3502 -- Far map and improved map transfer and rendering (WIP) by celeron55 |
| 17:00 |
rubenwardy |
that's it |
| 17:00 |
rubenwardy |
quicker than me |
| 17:01 |
rubenwardy |
personally, I found it ugly |
| 17:01 |
Roger9_ |
eh, I'm gonna try it |
| 17:01 |
rubenwardy |
it would be nice to have Bedrock map distance |
| 17:03 |
Roger9_ |
if I can find out how |
| 17:03 |
Roger9_ |
do I just do git clone -b far_map_wip_5 ...? |
| 17:04 |
rubenwardy |
git checkout HEAD~2000 |
| 17:04 |
rubenwardy |
git pull https://github.com/celeron55/minetest.get far_map_wip_5 |
| 17:04 |
rubenwardy |
git pull https://github.com/celeron55/minetest.git far_map_wip_5 |
| 17:05 |
Roger9_ |
so far: "git clone https://github.com/minetest/minetest.git minetest-farmap; git checkout HEAD~2000; git pull https://github.com/celeron55/minetest.git far_map_wip_5;" |
| 17:05 |
Roger9_ |
is that it or should I clone /celer on55/minetest.git? |
| 17:05 |
rubenwardy |
cool |
| 17:05 |
rubenwardy |
that's fine |
| 17:06 |
Roger9_ |
should I use the backport-0.4 version of mt_game? |
| 17:06 |
* twoelk |
is off to a big extended family party |
| 17:07 |
Roger9_ |
I also assume I should cd minetest-farmap after the clone |
| 17:07 |
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| 17:10 |
rubenwardy |
My personal opinion is that MTG should be split up, with the cost of small breaks, as it's currently very damaging to the project |
| 17:10 |
rubenwardy |
having default makes it hard to make mods which support multiple games |
| 17:11 |
rubenwardy |
makes it hard to remove what you don't want |
| 17:11 |
rubenwardy |
and makes it hard to make new games which don't suffer from these issues - you basically need to start from scratch |
| 17:22 |
Roger9_ |
that is the weirdest LOD I've seen |
| 17:22 |
Roger9_ |
it also doesn't alleviate lag issues |
| 17:27 |
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| 17:27 |
Fixer |
Roger9_: you have not seen Farmap 1.0 somewhere in 2012 |
| 17:28 |
Fixer |
it was kinda broken triangles and shit |
| 17:28 |
Fixer |
literally |
| 17:29 |
Roger9_ |
maybe I should just try to make the sky below the horizon appear green or something |
| 17:30 |
Roger9_ |
but idk how minetest renders the sky |
| 17:30 |
* tenplus1 |
envisions Bob Ross in the background somwehere with his happy little mistakes |
| 17:31 |
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| 17:31 |
Roger9_ |
or maybe get Bob Ross to paint a skybox |
| 17:31 |
Krock |
Roger9_, good luck building a time machine |
| 17:32 |
Roger9_ |
I'll use benrob's tardis mod |
| 17:32 |
tumeninodes |
didn't they bronze his fro? |
| 17:32 |
Roger9_ |
or maybe just /time |
| 17:34 |
Roger9_ |
do custom skyboxes use nearest neighbor interpolation? |
| 17:35 |
tenplus1 |
hi tumeni |
| 17:36 |
tumeninodes |
hi tenplus1, was shakin |
| 17:36 |
tumeninodes |
*what's |
| 17:36 |
tenplus1 |
mobs api updated, runaway mods no longer runaway from owners :D |
| 17:36 |
tumeninodes |
oppressing mob.... excellent |
| 17:37 |
Roger9_ |
no mobs with artificial neural networks? :c |
| 17:38 |
tumeninodes |
wow, I am a typing behemoth today |
| 17:43 |
Roger9_ |
odd |
| 17:43 |
Roger9_ |
it's rendering the sides of the skybox upside down? |
| 17:44 |
Roger9_ |
and when I upscaled it and flipped it vertically it decided to render the right way up making it upside down again |
| 17:48 |
Roger9_ |
nvm, |
| 17:48 |
Roger9_ |
yay |
| 17:51 |
tenplus1 |
back laters :PPP |
| 17:51 |
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| 17:56 |
Roger9_ |
Backyays |
| 18:24 |
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| 18:27 |
Roger9_ |
is there a built-in minetest function to convert rgb values to hex? |
| 18:30 |
Roger9_ |
Yays |
| 18:30 |
Roger9_ |
w |
| 18:35 |
Krock |
string.format("%#x%#x%#x%#x", r, g, b, a) |
| 18:35 |
rubenwardy |
ew |
| 18:35 |
rubenwardy |
that's gross |
| 18:35 |
Fixer |
heh |
| 18:35 |
rubenwardy |
omg |
| 18:35 |
rubenwardy |
I found an option on steam to hide all non-linux games |
| 18:35 |
Krock |
or is it %#2x ? *checks* |
| 18:36 |
rubenwardy |
pls make afunction |
| 18:38 |
Krock |
function abc(r, g, b, a) return string.format("%02x%02x%02x%02x", r, g, b, a) end --tested |
| 18:38 |
Roger9_ |
string.format("%#x", hexadecimalValue):match('0x(.+)') |
| 18:39 |
Krock |
no no. There are more flags for printf. 0 is what's desired here instead of # |
| 18:41 |
Roger9_ |
what algorithm determines the fog color with the default skybox? |
| 18:41 |
Krock |
possibly a hard-coded value somewhere in the source code |
| 18:42 |
Roger9_ |
fog color in the default skybox isn't hardcoded, in fact it varies based on whether you're looking into a cave |
| 18:42 |
Krock |
oh really? |
| 18:44 |
Roger9_ |
yes |
| 18:45 |
Roger9_ |
unless that's sarcasm, sometimes I can't tell |
| 18:51 |
Krock |
no, I'm surprised as I haven't noticed that before |
| 18:51 |
Krock |
to be fair.. I turned off the fog on my main PC |
| 18:54 |
rubenwardy |
https://contentdb.rubenwardy.com/ |
| 18:54 |
rubenwardy |
O_o |
| 18:54 |
rubenwardy |
o_O |
| 18:55 |
Roger9_ |
Krock: From what I've noticed, both the fog and the sky have the same color (well, similar, as the sky isn't a uniform color but the colors that are there are very similar), and if you look down into a cave or something then the sky and fog darkens |
| 19:04 |
Krock |
> Please login! > only "Sign in" available |
| 19:04 |
rubenwardy |
lol |
| 19:04 |
rubenwardy |
that'll be gone with the redesign |
| 19:04 |
rubenwardy |
the front end is very WIP |
| 19:05 |
rubenwardy |
I'm waiting for my lab partner to do that, but he's being ellusive |
| 19:07 |
Roger9 |
Yays |
| 19:08 |
* Roger9 |
installs some mods |
| 19:57 |
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| 20:02 |
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| 20:17 |
Fixer |
dropbox at 12 billion usd, lol |
| 20:17 |
Fixer |
"The company even warned investors itself that it may never turn a profit" |
| 20:19 |
rubenwardy |
dropbox needs to die |
| 20:19 |
rubenwardy |
it's ran by a bunch of high designers |
| 20:25 |
Fixer |
us has drugs problem |
| 20:41 |
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| 20:53 |
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| 21:14 |
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| 21:17 |
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| 21:39 |
paramat |
Fixer you overstate my opinion about MTG (my opinon doesn't dictate it, please stop implying that, 2 other devs can override me anytime) it may be best to keep it a little simple and impress with new games instead, however, notice we are working very hard to add new features, improve it and make it more complete. i have a big todo list and will continuously improve it |
| 21:41 |
paramat |
MTG has been changing more rapidly than ever in the last 2 years and especially recently, you are mistaken |
| 21:44 |
paramat |
reading logs .. ridiculous negativity and irrational complaining from you |
| 21:46 |
paramat |
lack of dev time and slow dev is not lack of interest in a feature, you have no idea how much time it takes just to add a single small feature or improvement |
| 21:48 |
paramat |
MTG is very much alive, MTE is quieter due to busy devs, it happens sometimes |
| 21:49 |
paramat |
now please stop talking crap about me and remember the dev rules |
| 21:50 |
paramat |
the myth about my overwhelming power is very irritating and insulting and shouldn't be repeated to spread it |
| 21:55 |
paramat |
Fixer , your list of 15 points, most of those are wanted and i support, it's a case of time |
| 21:57 |
paramat |
IhrFussel you're doing it too to some extent |
| 21:58 |
rubenwardy |
hmmm https://gist.github.com/rubenwardy/64deac529cef97ab5dc84bc4d1211d3e |
| 21:59 |
paramat |
"It's kinda selfish to decide alone or as 2 people over something lots of other people brought up" no one decides alone it takes 2/3 disapprovals to refuse something, devs make the decision it's not democracy |
| 22:00 |
Mr_Pardison |
it's a dev-ocracy. |
| 22:00 |
paramat |
Fixer sounds like you should go and play MC when you're like this and stop complaining that MT isn't MC |
| 22:08 |
paramat |
i have no laziness with steel, it looks like iron + carbon is not correct, note i support the most complex approach: adding an alloy furnace |
| 22:10 |
paramat |
we can't significantly break most mods just to change MTG, that's ridiculous |
| 22:11 |
Mr_Pardison |
alloy furnace is part of technic but it can be a big lag inducer if there are a lot of machines in one place. |
| 22:14 |
paramat |
adding another level of metal and tools (iron) would be repeating a mistake of the past (bronze), we can just make the creation of steel a little more realistic |
| 22:16 |
Shara |
paramat: issue is that steel should be... above many of the other things we have |
| 22:19 |
paramat |
yes i'm fine with metals rebalance :) |
| 22:23 |
|
Fixer was kicked by paramat: Fixer |
| 22:24 |
paramat |
gentle moderation for today |
| 22:28 |
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| 22:29 |
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Gael-de-Sailly joined #minetest-hub |
| 22:40 |
paramat |
i won't tolerate you spreading a nasty myth about me, that's the sort of thing mr. k did, you know therules, alone i am powerless. and please restrain the baseless negativity |
| 22:41 |
Fixer |
rubenwardy: will it have something like this with public access? http://bananas.openttd.org/en |
| 22:41 |
rubenwardy |
yes |
| 22:50 |
rubenwardy |
Fixer, https://i.rubenwardy.com/hhOzD.png |
| 22:54 |
Fixer |
rubenwardy: i hope there will be a bit more info about mod somewhere displayed |
| 22:54 |
rubenwardy |
yes |
| 22:54 |
rubenwardy |
I'm just getting the basic functionality down |
| 22:55 |
rubenwardy |
it'll look a bit like this: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/82Mloe6sxV59rZHjN8j84xPfyL0dQ8hKEnmYM6gcazozNOe4PU0XPwUXSmdsR0MQZA=w1920-h956 |
| 22:55 |
rubenwardy |
and double clicking will show this: https://i.rubenwardy.com/GO2xM.png |
| 22:55 |
Mr_Pardison |
looks nice and streamlined. |
| 22:55 |
rubenwardy |
but with a few images |
| 22:59 |
Fixer |
rubenwardy: imo i would prefer showing size, version and last change on the main list, maybe even with interactive install(ed)/remove button on the right side near each |
| 22:59 |
Fixer |
and mod author column as well |
| 22:59 |
rubenwardy |
heh |
| 22:59 |
rubenwardy |
this will support multiple screenshots |
| 23:12 |
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| 23:12 |
Fixer |
rubenwardy: your android design list is more informative |
| 23:13 |
rubenwardy |
jesus christ |
| 23:13 |
rubenwardy |
<@rubenwardy> I'm just getting the basic functionality down |
| 23:13 |
rubenwardy |
<@rubenwardy> it'll look a bit like this |
| 23:13 |
rubenwardy |
so it will look similar to the android list |
| 23:18 |
rubenwardy |
yay, installing works! |
| 23:36 |
rubenwardy |
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=315179#p315179 |
