Time Nick Message 00:39 rubenwardy does any one here like videos for tutorials? Why? 00:39 rubenwardy Do you prefer them to reading tutorials? 00:55 lumberJ resounding no 00:55 lumberJ :D 01:00 paramat yes i prefer video tutorials, it can show more 01:07 Wayward_One Same here 01:10 rubenwardy I'm mainly talking for programming tutorials 01:11 rubenwardy *about 01:13 rubenwardy what do you find more vital, the visuals or the voice over? 01:19 Wayward_One Ideally both, for me at least, with the visuals to see exactly how it's done, and the voice over to actually explain what's going on and provide additional info if needed 01:19 rubenwardy yeah 01:22 pauloue for programming I think text is better, but an introductory video for setting up an editing environment / making a hello world program is nice 06:40 nerzhul sofar setpos doesn't need to send mapblock it's ridiculous, with that each time you will burst server with unneeded mapblocks when called for example on a player lag 06:40 nerzhul mapblocks are requested by client when missing 06:42 sofar you know what, you're not listening 06:42 sofar I've tried to explain the problem several times already 06:43 sofar I don't ALWAYS want to send a mapblock 06:43 nerzhul sofar, you can just code a generic function to send a mapblock to any player if you need 06:43 sofar I want to do something specifically for ITB since the block the player teleports to is ALWAYS goignt to be MISSING ON THE CLIENT 06:43 nerzhul what is itb ? and where are your PRs ? 06:43 nerzhul :p 06:43 sofar http://minetest.foo-projects.org/ 06:44 sofar the problem is terrible for players 06:44 sofar they always fall through the newly loaded blocks and die 06:44 sofar I have no fucking clue how to do this, you know my knowledge of C++ is mediocre at best 06:45 nerzhul lol 06:45 sofar I wouldn't know how to send a mapblock from the player object functions to save my life 06:46 sofar it's frankly amazing I made connected nodeboxes work, lol 06:47 sofar btw, mods like `warps` could also benefit from a generic gratuitous mapblock send, so that would be nice to have I think 06:48 sofar maybe something like a beacon mod could use it as well 06:48 sofar tbh a mapblock send function sounds simpler to implement almost, but I haven't looked at that path yet 06:52 sofar maybe I'll try and hack something up 07:06 sofar nerzhul: gotta go to bed, gave up with this so far : https://gist.github.com/sofar/f3bdaa9ab1253f3d6d893127bc41e562 07:13 Amaz A mapblock send function would be very useful :) 10:30 tenplus1 hi folks 11:07 Wayward_One Hi tenplus1, all :) 11:09 tenplus1 hi wayward o/ 11:09 tenplus1 hows things 11:09 * tenplus1 has a weird issue with crafting recipe 11:10 Wayward_One Things are good here 11:11 tenplus1 kewl :) 11:11 Wayward_One You? 11:11 tenplus1 waking up :) but okie... ehe 11:11 tenplus1 I have a craft recipe that uses 5 group items and works perfectly fine singleplayer 11:12 tenplus1 but on multiplayer the recipe changes and doesnt work >!/!?! 11:12 tenplus1 cant figure it out 11:12 Wayward_One How odd.. 11:15 tenplus1 is there a limit to how many groups can be registered ?!?! 11:27 tenplus1 wb nathan 11:27 NathanS21 hi 11:27 tenplus1 :P 11:30 tenplus1 hi fixer 11:30 tenplus1 I've found a few crafting recipes that dont work on server but work perfectly fine singleplayer ?!?! this is trange!! 11:44 Fixer hi 11:45 tenplus1 o/ 12:28 tenplus1 wb rud0lf 12:29 rud0lf thanks 12:30 tenplus1 hi lumberJ 12:30 lumberJ hey tenplus1 12:30 tenplus1 o/ 12:34 tenplus1 what's new with you NathanS21? 12:38 NathanS21 not too much, just working on my modding course. 12:38 NathanS21 hadn't realized just how much work it would be. 12:38 NathanS21 still haven't even finished the intro chapter 12:39 NathanS21 though I should get that completed this weekend. 12:39 NathanS21 I"m hoping the actual coding part will be easier to do. 12:41 tenplus1 :) sounds interesting though :P 12:41 NathanS21 http://www.nathansalapat.com/mmc/course-overview 12:41 NathanS21 I'll post about it on the forums once I get some real content. 12:43 tenplus1 kewl 12:43 tenplus1 looks like you've been very busy indeed :P 12:44 NathanS21 ya. :P 12:46 tenplus1 am giving up on -dev channel, no-one talkin 13:08 tenplus1 hi aerozoic 13:09 rubenwardy NathanS21, 4 episodes, still not started any modding lessons 13:09 rubenwardy lol 13:09 tenplus1 o/ ruben 13:09 aerozoic wazup tenplus1 13:10 NathanS21 It's the intro chapter, and I did mention you can skip it if you've already done some modding. :) 13:10 NathanS21 I just wanted to make sure that people could use this in a school type setting. 13:11 tenplus1 mt in schools is a great thing :P 13:11 NathanS21 We can dream :) 13:12 tenplus1 rubenwardy: have you had any issues in the past with craft recipes using groups ? 13:13 rubenwardy no 13:14 tenplus1 https://github.com/tenplus1/farming/blob/master/chili.lua#L22 <-- recipe works singleplayer, but it's borked on server... dunno how 14:20 tenplus1 wb mister 14:20 Mr_Pardison T.Hanks 14:47 Fixer that was the most ridiculous bug I've ever seen 14:47 tenplus1 whassat ? 14:47 Fixer had to literally rename a directory, because one program just suddenly refused to write into it 14:47 tenplus1 weird indeed 14:47 Fixer it worked before, rights not changed 14:48 Fixer other apps can write into 14:48 Fixer i can write 14:48 Fixer that program can write into renamed dir 14:48 Fixer what actual fuck 14:48 tenplus1 lol 14:48 Fixer had to use procmon, read tons off stuff, disable antivirus, did not help 14:49 Fixer renamed dir, poof, everything is working, magic... 14:49 tenplus1 any weird permissions set for that folder ? 14:50 Fixer even tried to clean temp, resetting settings of that app, that was weirdest bug ever 14:50 Fixer permission do not change after rename 14:50 Fixer oh well, fuck windows 14:51 Fixer program literally received access denied to write final final, because someone looked wrong way or smth 14:51 tenplus1 wrong phase of the moon 14:51 Fixer and that started suddenly, only thing was changed is windows updates 14:51 tenplus1 it's weird having a bug that only happens under weird circumstances... 14:51 Fixer yeah 14:52 tenplus1 am still dealing with that damn group crafting recipe 14:53 Fixer i've tried everything, even creating that dir totally empty, with totally good permissions, nope, does not work, big fuck you, logs are shitty 14:53 Mr-Pardison that's windows for you. 14:53 tenplus1 agree'd, winblows sucks 15:04 Roger9_ can a csm place nodes? 15:04 Roger9_ WinBlozeâ„¢ 15:05 sofar no 15:05 tenplus1 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/client_lua_api.txt <-- everything csm can do 15:05 tenplus1 o/ sofar 15:05 Roger9_ yes, I looked at that 15:06 tenplus1 if csm could place a node it would cause so much damage 15:06 tenplus1 hibenrob 15:07 tenplus1 sofar: you got a sec ? 15:07 Roger9_ tenplus1: you mean that it could make players auto-grief? 15:08 tenplus1 yeah, they could remove all protection blocks, override doors or replace chests etc... much hassle 15:08 benrob0329 Hi tenplus1 15:08 Roger9_ I meant that it would cause the client to send a request to the server to place a block, forcing it to obey protection 15:08 tenplus1 o/ ben 15:09 Roger9_ it would be equivalent to the player actually right-clicking to place the block 15:09 tenplus1 place_node checks protection, set_node doesnt 15:09 Roger9_ I'm talking about an idea for clientside modding which would only be able to do things that the player could do anyway (to an extent, anyway) 15:10 tenplus1 still wouldnt trust it :P 15:10 Roger9_ if you're worried about a clientside mod messing with your client and making you do stuff then just check the code 15:10 Roger9_ that problem already exists as if I remember correctly CSMs can send messages to chat on your behalf 15:11 tenplus1 csm code is on client's system, not on server where I can check it 15:11 rubenwardy CSM placing nodes would be OK with a whitelist 15:11 rubenwardy like, the server should give a list of nodes that it's ok for the client to replace that node with 15:11 Roger9_ tenplus1: I meant that the player using the CSM could check it to see if the code is malicious 15:11 rubenwardy means you could have CSM predicted buttons controlling pistons 15:12 tenplus1 that's not what I'm saying roger, a maliscious player could use a csm mod to do damage knowing full well what the code can do.... also yeah, a whitelist woudl be ok ruben 15:12 Roger9_ I mean that this CSM place_node function would be forced to obey protection as if the player actually did right-click to place it there, it'd take away from your inventory and everything 15:12 Roger9_ so I don't see how it couldn't do anything a player without a CSM couldn't already do 15:12 rubenwardy no need for that 15:12 Roger9_ why not? 15:12 rubenwardy just use a mod channel 15:13 Roger9_ if I remember correctly, mod channels allow CSMs to communicate with SSMs, right? 15:13 rubenwardy yes 15:13 Roger9_ are they new to 0.5.0? 15:13 rubenwardy yes 15:13 rubenwardy client-side scripting is for server-provided mods, not for client-provided mods 15:14 Roger9_ ohh 15:14 rubenwardy so whilst we may keep client-provided mods for ease of development, new features should only be for things that are useful for server-provided mods to minimise the surface area of the API 15:15 Roger9_ minimise the surface area of the API... hehe, then it should be a sphere :P (get it? spheres are 3D shapes with the lowest surface area to volume ratio) 15:15 rubenwardy \xo/ 15:15 Mr-Pardison /o\ 15:15 Roger9_ \yay/ 15:16 rubenwardy some things to think about with CSM, anyway: 15:16 rubenwardy 1. policy if a vulnerability is found 15:16 rubenwardy 2. how to probably handle multiple standard library versions 15:16 rubenwardy (ie: how can one CSM support multiple client versions nicely) 15:16 rubenwardy 3. how to audit the exposed API 15:17 benrob0329 Minetest is going to go on FSF's bad list because it makes you run "nonfree Lua" 15:17 rubenwardy we won't 15:17 Roger9_ nonfree Lua? 15:17 rubenwardy there will be a dialog with [Accept] or [Decline 15:17 tenplus1 4. nom donuts 15:17 rubenwardy +] 15:17 benrob0329 Roger9_: Its a joke about how Stallman hates most websites because JavaScript 15:17 Roger9_ are you talking about CSMs that the server sends to the client? 15:17 rubenwardy yeah 15:17 Roger9_ ah, that's a pretty good idea 15:18 benrob0329 ..its the whole point is CSM 15:18 Roger9_ though maybe give the client an option to see the CSM's code before accepting or declining 15:18 benrob0329 *pf 15:18 benrob0329 *of 15:18 tenplus1 that's how it should have been from the start... server sends csm mods to client only... 15:18 rubenwardy that should be possible too 15:19 benrob0329 "The server would like to run on your client. The code is at ." 15:19 benrob0329 [Run] [Don't] 15:20 rubenwardy mod name shouldn't be shown, probably 15:20 rubenwardy without any signing or hashing 15:20 rubenwardy I could make a bitcoin mining CSM and call it "mesecons_csm" 15:20 rubenwardy give a false sense of trust 15:20 benrob0329 15:20 benrob0329 As in, you can go check it 15:21 benrob0329 Better yet, have CSMs hash against a publicly available archive 15:21 rubenwardy most clients won't 15:23 rubenwardy for "publicly available archive", you might as well use a mod store like mine 15:23 benrob0329 I feel as though maybe we should rethink the idea of servers sending the clients things, and take a package manager approach 15:23 rubenwardy lol 15:23 rubenwardy inv4 15:23 benrob0329 Have servers depend on mods and content packs, the client accepts them before continuing 15:24 benrob0329 Maybe for 0.6 15:35 rubenwardy I personally think that's the better approach 15:35 rubenwardy but some people are against it 15:38 tenplus1 am not against it so long as it's implemented properly 15:57 TommyTreasure hi guys, just a quick note regarding one of the csm issues recently on my server..... 15:57 tenplus1 hi tommy 15:57 TommyTreasure i have a player that uses the colored text, i also have a co-admin that's color blind 15:57 TommyTreasure it doesn't seem there's a way for either me or my co-admin to set the text back to default color 15:58 tenplus1 that's why I've banned using csm mods on xanadu... 15:58 sofar right, I've had issues myself attempting to strip colors 15:59 Roger9_ I created a markdown CSM that performs the coloring when messages are received by the client, rather than sent from it 15:59 Roger9_ meaning that only people with the CSM can see the coloring 15:59 TommyTreasure my thoughts regarding csm, is there should be a server option to allow or disallow them, or selectively disallow those that interfere with server operation 16:00 rubenwardy TommyTreasure, strip_chat_color 16:00 rubenwardy or whatever 16:00 rubenwardy there also is a server option for that 16:00 tenplus1 tommy, totally agree 16:01 rubenwardy that meaning disallowing client-provided-mods 16:01 rubenwardy personally I think client-provided mods should be removed completely 16:01 TommyTreasure rubenwardy, i've been searching for that config option, even posted a question regarding that last week. could you please point me to the option i need to set? 16:02 rubenwardy 0.4.17-dev 16:02 rubenwardy for chat color 16:02 tenplus1 *cough* agree ruben 16:02 rubenwardy csm_flavors is in 0.5.0 16:02 Roger9_ csm_flavors? 16:02 Mr-Pardison I'll take rocky road. 16:03 TommyTreasure grrrr, i had a feeling you were going to say that. lol 16:03 rubenwardy "flavors" is a shit name anyway 16:03 rubenwardy should at least be spelled correctly 16:03 sofar ok rubenwerdy 16:03 sofar :P 16:03 Mr-Pardison :P 16:04 Roger9_ you mean the UK spelling that requires more keystrokes and is in general weirder? 16:04 tenplus1 you mean "traditional" english ? 16:04 TommyTreasure so for .16, i'd have to find a modder that could write a mod as a workaround? 16:04 sofar I prefer simplified english myself 16:04 tenplus1 lol 16:05 Roger9_ lol 16:07 TommyTreasure tenplus1, does your cms override routine work on .16? 16:07 Roger9_ traditiounal english is thoe boest 16:07 rubenwardy no 16:08 rubenwardy it's ur because it's not or 16:08 rubenwardy it's a softer sound, coleur not col-or / colaw 16:08 sofar vleyfuhrr 16:08 Roger9_ ah 16:08 Roger9_ so we should pronounce it coler 16:08 Roger9_ s/pronounce/spell 16:09 sofar treytur 16:09 Roger9_ or maybe culler 16:09 rubenwardy no, coler is different again - er is shorter than our 16:09 Roger9_ culluh? 16:09 rubenwardy that's probably closer 16:09 Roger9_ I don't say "colerrrr" 16:09 Roger9_ again, just spell it color 16:09 Roger9_ I might be from the UK but I recognize better spelling when I see it 16:09 rubenwardy not correct English though ;) 16:10 sofar I'm gonna start yelling dutch at y'all 16:10 sofar maybe that'll shut you up :P 16:10 TommyTreasure correct English depends on which side of the lake you reside 16:10 Roger9_ Modern linguistics is descriptive, rubenwardy, and "color" is common in the US, not only that but it's less letters 16:10 rubenwardy I speak English not American, jeez 16:10 rubenwardy XD 16:10 TommyTreasure lol 16:10 rubenwardy y'all need to take note 16:10 Roger9_ American isn't a language, lol 16:10 rubenwardy I could care less about American 16:11 * rubenwardy shivers in disgust 16:11 TommyTreasure couldn't* lol 16:11 rubenwardy should of paid more attention in school 16:11 * rubenwardy shivers in disgust again 16:11 TommyTreasure or could you? even more lol 16:11 Roger9_ rubenwardy: oh, so you do care somewhat about American... also, "should have" or "should've" 16:11 rubenwardy tbh those last two are probably common mistakes 16:11 rubenwardy Roger9_, I know, it's a joke 16:11 Roger9_ ik 16:11 sofar engels is een slak aftreksel taal 16:12 tenplus1 hey, least it isn't scottish... 16:12 sofar leer een echte moedertaal! 16:12 Roger9_ my sense of humor is fully functional but my subroutine for responding to that humor is malfunctioning 16:13 Roger9_ tenplus1: well, I imagine there's a scottish dialect of English... but there's also a separate language called Scots which is kinda like English but not close enough to merely be a dialect 16:13 tenplus1 you mean weegie ? 16:13 Roger9_ wat 16:14 tenplus1 hi Krock 16:14 Krock hi tenplus1 16:14 tenplus1 would have = wid hae 16:15 Roger9_ would hath 16:15 tenplus1 shakesperian ? 16:16 rubenwardy fake news, you cannot translate Scottish people 16:17 Roger9_ I don't understand the idea of "alternative facts", as if facts were like opinions or preferences that could be different for different people 16:17 rubenwardy well, religion manages that fine 16:17 * rubenwardy runs 16:17 tenplus1 o.O a bit too far offtopic :P hehe 16:18 rubenwardy yeah, lets not start that 16:18 rubenwardy so, Minetest huh 16:18 Mr_Pardison needs some work in places. 16:18 rubenwardy yeah 16:18 Roger9_ rubenwardy: don't worry, I agree with you ;) 16:18 * Roger9_ also runs 16:18 rubenwardy the content database now has a download button 16:18 rubenwardy how exciting 16:18 Roger9_ maybe you can download alternative content 16:18 rubenwardy need to actually add file uploading at some point 16:19 rubenwardy file uploading is a whole can of worms though 16:19 tenplus1 for skins ? 16:19 rubenwardy mods and games 16:20 rubenwardy it's basically moddb but with maintainable code 16:20 rubenwardy and support for editors (uploading mods on behalf of someone else) and github 16:21 tenplus1 ah 16:22 rubenwardy this will be done by middle of May 16:22 rubenwardy and hopefully in 0.5.0 16:24 * tenplus1 awaits 0.5.0 stable 16:25 tenplus1 ruben, what farming mod you using on your server ? 16:25 rubenwardy n/a 16:25 rubenwardy I hope 16:25 rubenwardy on my private server I use MTG's farming 16:25 tenplus1 ahh, no worries... 16:27 Roger9_ I haven't recompiled in ages 16:28 tenplus1 just wondering if anyone is using latest farming redo... I wanted to check server recipes 16:28 tenplus1 I have an issue here that doesnt wanna be fixed 16:29 tenplus1 and I think it's minetest to blame 16:32 rubenwardy it's always worked fine for me 16:32 tenplus1 the recipe in question works perfectly on singleplayer 16:33 tenplus1 but on server it changes and no longer works... and it is only being registered once, so no overrides 16:37 tenplus1 hi twoelk 16:37 twoelk o/ 16:42 Roger9_ Yay. Recompiling the latest 0.5 build. 16:52 Roger9_ odd 16:53 Roger9_ tenplus1: do you know how I would uninstall a non-portable installation of Minetest from Debian 9? 16:53 tenplus1 other than the: sudo apt-get remove minetest ? 16:54 Roger9_ I didn't use apt 16:54 Roger9_ https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3837 16:55 sfan5 sudo xargs rm