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IRC log for #minetest-hub, 2018-03-03

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:23 Fixer just one more year and then you will be happy
00:24 Fixer rubenwardy: nice view, little bit of snow here
00:25 red-001 xerox123, how many times has Fixer said "just one more year and then you will be happy"
00:25 Fixer countless
00:25 red-001 well if the stats don't have that what use are they?
00:27 Fixer what stats?
00:28 shivajiva didn't think the quantity mattered only repetition of the mantra till it manifests
00:29 * Fixer shrugs and goes back to creative thinking in block game
00:33 Fixer nothing unusual, just mt motto https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1ylnLVB-Rg
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14:09 Fixer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltncQ0t8I6A
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15:14 Megaf joined #minetest-hub
15:14 MinetestBot Megaf: Mar-02 11:16 UTC <paramat> calm down, your crash is your own fault, not Minetest's =) you're using a very recent MTG that is not in sync with the backport 0.4 engine. just ask and we'll help you out
15:19 Megaf Hi folks.
15:19 Megaf Help pleae? http://paste.debian.net/plain/1012921
15:19 Megaf paramat: something went wrong before with my git pull and it got master instad of backport-0.4. That was the problem. Perhaps backport-0.4 should be made the default branch for MT and MTG?
15:19 Megaf This error happened with current backport-0.4 for engine and subgame. http://paste.debian.net/plain/1012921
15:19 Megaf emerge.cpp:293: virtual void* EmergeThread::run(): A fatal error occured: std::bad_alloc
15:37 paramat ah i see
15:38 paramat looking
15:40 paramat your server is on backport 0.4?
15:40 Megaf By the way, my reaction would be less severe if I had been asked if I were using master instead of blaming me for using master, in a moment I was sure I was using MTG backport-0.4
15:40 Megaf not saying the way I reacted was right...
15:40 Megaf paramat: no, it should be all backport-0.4
15:40 Megaf MTG was in master for some minutes until it crashed
15:41 Megaf I've seen the emerge crash before in 0.4, it seems to be random
15:42 paramat so the crash was in master ok
15:42 Megaf paramat: the one from yesterday yes, this one from now is backport-0.4
15:43 paramat ok
15:44 paramat can you paste line 293 of your emerge.cpp? in backport 0.4 line 293 is a blank line
15:49 Megaf blank as well
15:50 Megaf I added a new option in my minetest.conf, about log, set it to 0
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15:51 paramat ah weird
15:51 Megaf added this show_debug = 0
15:51 Megaf if you search, EmergeThread::run, circa line 400, there's stuff about log
15:52 Megaf could be just plain coincidence tho
15:52 Megaf and I also reduce my log from info to action, debug_log_level = action
15:52 paramat "std::bad_alloc is the type of the object thrown as exceptions by the allocation functions to report failure to allocate storage. " maybe memory stuff
15:52 Megaf reduced*
15:52 Megaf Maybe a memory leak happened
15:54 Megaf well, nothing on dmesg
15:55 paramat do you know how to compile a debug version and/or run minetest in 'gdb'? that would give you more info
15:55 paramat apart from that there's not much to go on, sorry i can't help much
15:57 Megaf wildo if it crashes again
15:57 Tenplus1 joined #minetest-hub
15:57 Tenplus1 hi folks
16:02 paramat maybe you ran out of server RAM .. just a guess
16:02 Tenplus1 o/ paramat, how's things ?
16:07 paramat hi, erm, ok but just lost the last small bit of income i had :}
16:07 Tenplus1 erk, did you splurge on a pizza ?
16:08 paramat anyway 'bad alloc' looks like it can be caused by a memory leak
16:08 lisac hey Tenplus1
16:08 Tenplus1 hi lisac
16:08 Tenplus1 if it helps check out www.minds.com and get some articles/points gathered, you can convert to coinage
16:09 Megaf Hi Tenplus1
16:09 Tenplus1 hey Megaf
16:11 Tenplus1 converted a few ppl at work to Minetest :) said they love it
16:11 Megaf heh
16:11 Tenplus1 they are usy rumaging through forums for mods to play with :P
16:13 Tenplus1 meanwhile am playing with minds.com and checking out an open-source free speech platform for everything from articles, pics, forums, videos etc. which lets you convert points gained to cash
16:22 Wayward_One hi all :)
16:23 Tenplus1 hi wayward
16:32 Fixer joined #minetest-hub
16:33 Tenplus1 wb
16:39 Krock joined #minetest-hub
16:39 Tenplus1 hi Krock
16:39 Krock hi Tenplus1
16:39 Krock ugh
16:39 Tenplus1 o/
16:39 Krock o/ \o O//
16:39 Tenplus1 eheh. how's you ?
16:41 Krock oh I'm fine :) checking what's new
16:41 rubenwardy ooo, capital Tenplus1 today
16:41 Tenplus1 hi ruben :)
16:42 rubenwardy hey
16:42 Krock Tenplus1 is capitalistic now
16:42 Tenplus1 I found a video that shows multiple ports of the same game to systems back in the old days :) quite funny
16:43 Fixer hi
16:44 Tenplus1 o/
16:53 rubenwardy https://twitter.com/ultek85​/status/969897699490312193
16:53 rubenwardy pretty cool physics
16:54 xerox123 the bananas that fall out top it all right off
16:54 xerox123 out of*
16:55 Tenplus1 lol, hi xerox
16:55 Megaf that was unexpected
16:57 Fixer checking out proposed ambience, nice ingame
16:57 Tenplus1 ambience?
16:58 Fixer paramat: lava source and flowing sound should be added as well
16:58 Tenplus1 ooh
16:58 Sokomine joined #minetest-hub
16:58 Tenplus1 hi Sokomine
16:59 Fixer finally checked that hdd for badblocks, 1 bad block in total, wasted almost a day
17:00 Tenplus1 didnt S.M.A.R.T let you know the issue before checking ?
17:04 Fixer Tenplus1: i've seen 1 proposed sector relocation, but had to check fs integrity
17:04 Fixer just to be sure
17:04 Tenplus1 good point, better safe than sorry
17:04 Fixer and indeed it had few places where it is getting slow
17:04 Fixer few fs errors fixed as well
17:05 Tenplus1 easy enough to mark the bad area and block it from use
17:07 Fixer it does it automatically iirc
17:07 Fixer drive itself
17:07 Tenplus1 yeh, they are quite smart :) heh...
17:09 paramat hmm forgot about lava
17:11 rubenwardy seems to work well
17:11 rubenwardy apart from a delay when adding / removing flowing
17:12 Fixer i've tested in on really big cave flows, felt nice
17:12 Fixer and in dungeons near water
17:12 rubenwardy calling the mod ambience is probably a bad idea though
17:12 Fixer you can locate water and stuff most of the time
17:12 Fixer it is basic functionality tbh :)
17:13 Fixer Tenplus1: during whole chkdsk check windows gave me 271 warning about bad block
17:13 Fixer warnings*
17:13 rubenwardy maybe envsounds
17:14 Tenplus1 personally I'd keep ambience as a mod instead of including with default
17:15 Tenplus1 unless you develop an API that handles sounds better in area that can be added to
17:15 Tenplus1 hi atorian
17:17 Fixer server owners can use other or disable it anyway
17:17 Tenplus1 true
17:18 Fixer not including lava/water flow sound is silly
17:18 Tenplus1 paramat: does the sound actually come from the middle of the running water ? or does it just play for the player ?
17:24 rubenwardy Tenplus1: it comes from the middle of the water
17:24 rubenwardy game#2064
17:24 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/2064 -- Add initial ambience mod with flowing water sounds by paramat
17:24 rubenwardy "A volume around a player (currently radius 8, so the volume is 1 mapblock) is searched for the relevant nodes.
17:24 rubenwardy The box containing all the relevant nodes is calculated and the midpoint of the box found.
17:24 rubenwardy The sound is played at this point with gain determined by node count."
17:25 Tenplus1 sweet
17:25 Tenplus1 gotta check code and maybe tweak ambiance mod to use similar method :D
17:25 rubenwardy some k-means grouping would probably find a better result, but more obv intensive
17:25 Fixer torch placing sound has very tiny noise sound
17:25 rubenwardy for example, the wrong location will be selected if you have two separate pools of running water
17:26 rubenwardy the middle of both would be selected
17:26 Tenplus1 that would be more interesting,
17:26 rubenwardy k-means requires knowledge of how many groups, so flood fill would probably be better
17:27 rubenwardy but worth leaving that for an engine feature or client-side scripting
17:27 Tenplus1 would it really be that slow ?
17:28 rubenwardy depends on how often you run it
17:28 Tenplus1 if watrer sound runs 4 seconds long it would prolly only be ever 4 seconds
17:29 Tenplus1 and if water = do k-means calc and play at pos from there
17:30 Tenplus1 was gonna redo ambience lite at one point and add api, just time... as always :P but k-means would be a nice addition:https://github.com/tenplus1/a​mbience/blob/master/init.lua
17:32 rubenwardy running water sounds is the perfect use case of a client-side script or feature
17:32 Tenplus1 yeah, server loaded csm would have been perfect for this... add your own sounds :P
17:36 Fixer js-like cancer officially in windows https://i.imgur.com/BSjDdtu.png
17:37 Tenplus1 *shudder*
17:37 Fixer they actually admit their ----AV is so slow, they do it like that
17:37 Fixer to mimic itty js sites
17:38 Fixer it needs at least 2 seconds to bring their window to desktop, on SSD, on core i3 cpu, maybe it is time to rise the bar
17:42 paramat yeah i'm fine with a different mod name
17:45 rubenwardy well, I'm not completely decided
17:45 rubenwardy does it make sense to use mod ambience alongside your ambience?
17:45 paramat only if you can disable water sounds in the optional mod
17:46 rubenwardy disabling the mod is the same as not using it
17:46 Tenplus1 an API would be a better idea, then players could download sound sets to run clientside
17:46 Tenplus1 that's how I handle music on ambience_lite... if it'#s thjere it playd
18:17 Tenplus1 paramat: how fast would  a pathfinding check be to see if water is fully audible or partially muted through a wall ?
18:18 rubenwardy line of sight would probably be enough
18:18 rubenwardy that's pretty fast
18:18 rubenwardy just half if there's a node in the way
18:18 Tenplus1 would add to the realism
18:18 Tenplus1 that way you'd know if water is actually around the corner vs through a wall
18:20 rubenwardy with line of sight you'd need to check all 4 corners
18:20 rubenwardy err, 8
18:20 rubenwardy and that's assuming that it's a single blob
18:20 rubenwardy heh
18:21 rubenwardy sounds like asking for glitches
18:21 Tenplus1 that's why I mentioned pathfinding
18:21 Tenplus1 would find centre of water and see if it's audible or not
18:22 paramat found a lava sound, will experiment, want to try multiple sounds anyway
18:30 Tenplus1 an API wouild be a really complicated affair considering all the checks that go into sound location
18:46 lumberJ joined #minetest-hub
18:47 Tenplus1 hi lumberJ
18:51 lumberJ hey Tenplus1
18:51 Tenplus1 :P
18:58 Tenplus1 the find_nodes_in_area splits positions and node count into separate tables... pah! trying to compare them together is a pain
19:06 lumberJ are they not at the same index in their respective table?
19:07 Tenplus1 you gotta do:    local  aa, bb = minetest.find_nodes_in_area(pos1, pos2, node_list)
19:07 Tenplus1 aa contains ALL of the positions
19:07 Tenplus1 while local num =  bb["actual_node"] to get total
19:08 Tenplus1 soooo, to have water sounds AND lava sounds you would have to do 2x find_nodes_in_area which slows things down
19:09 lumberJ i see
19:11 Tenplus1 paramats water works well cause it only checks water and uses positions knowing it's ALL water :)
19:11 Tenplus1 adding other checks and sounds would have to be done seperately which would slow things down sadly
19:16 Fixer it is not like you are running a server on Celeron 366Mhz or smth
19:17 Tenplus1 it checks per player, so a full server of say 30 players can either have 1 check for all ambience nodes or a bunch of separate one's for positional info and really slow things down
19:17 Fixer you have ambience on your server, i don't remember it laggy
19:18 Tenplus1 I do, yes... but it took a lot of tweaking to remove lag... it does a single check per player every second which handles ALL nodes/sounds...
19:18 Fixer if you can't add this trivia into a game, minetest looses legitimacy
19:18 Tenplus1 if I had to add positional information to have proper sound positions it would be crazy laggy
19:19 Fixer that code can be profiled easily
19:19 Fixer i guess better option is just remove minetest game repo and have a beer and move on with your life or smth
19:20 Fixer if you can't add this trivia, don't want to repeat myself, it is not a rocket science, not nuclear reactor simulator per each player
19:20 Tenplus1 trivia ?
19:20 Fixer slow server can just disable it and don't bother
19:21 Fixer yeah, sounds is trivia
19:21 Tenplus1 trivial ?
19:21 Fixer i'm player, If I play in lifeless world without sounds with some strange excuses, yeah
19:21 Fixer and I wonder why people disable sound in MTG
19:21 Fixer entirely
19:22 Tenplus1 that's why ambiance_lite works well on servers, cause it has the ability to add sounds and bring life to a world that doesnt tax the server
19:22 Fixer server work is too work, code can be optimised, if slow server - disable x/y/z
19:22 Fixer it is 2018, people have standards these days
19:22 Tenplus1 lol
19:23 Fixer you can just give lifeless game with strate face and tell "oh sounds are slow on server, we disabled it"
19:23 Fixer you can't*
19:23 Fixer straight*
19:24 Tenplus1 o.O   am not talking about disabling, only not using positional sounds
19:24 Fixer in the age on multicore CPUs (4 cpu = budget today), you can't just give "please no sounds, it is slow"
19:25 Tenplus1 if mt engine used all teh cores it would be valid :D
19:25 Fixer it uses them
19:25 Fixer iirc
19:25 Fixer different threads
19:26 Tenplus1 I thought only mapgen used all the cores, not actual lua
19:26 Fixer it is not like I push that exact code paramat wants, it can be tested and profiled, maybe rejected or reworked, I say, please no silly excuses
19:26 sofar go play on ITB and listen to the positional sounds for leaves/water/fire
19:26 Fixer telling positional sounds are slow is silly in 2018
19:26 Fixer in 1998 i will maybe think a little bit
19:26 Tenplus1 which mod does that use sofar ?
19:26 Fixer 1n 1988 i will be fine
19:26 sofar my own code, unpublished
19:27 Tenplus1 ahh
19:27 sofar but you can listen to it and tell me if you think it's severely impacting the game performance, or not
19:27 Fixer server performance you mean
19:28 Fixer if it impacts game performance i will loose faith in humanity and computing
19:28 sofar you can't ascertain that really as a player
19:28 sofar it's not, of course
19:28 sofar interestingly enough it is the heaviest thing that the server is doing
19:28 sofar percentage wise
19:29 Tenplus1 how do you check for nodes/position info for sounds if ya dont mind me asking ?
19:29 sofar the server barely gets a few % cpu total
19:29 Fixer aka it is idling pretty much
19:29 rubenwardy it also has barely any players
19:30 sofar it's using ABM's currently - my idea is to change it to CSM using whatever method we can get in CSM, having a CSM ABM would actually be nice
19:30 Tenplus1 yeah, server loaded CSM would be great for ambiance style mods
19:30 sofar ABM range on ITB is tuned low, but it's still 50+ nodes I think
19:30 Tenplus1 offload everything
19:31 sofar yes
19:31 sofar anyway, you can't really understand how great it sounds until you hear it in person I think
19:32 sofar positional sounds, that is
19:32 Tenplus1 :) I bet it does...   ambi_lite still sounbds good for what it does
19:32 sofar I've written up an algorithm that makes it work reasonably well and the effect is very nice
19:32 Tenplus1 but I would like positional sounds in there
19:32 sofar even things like buttons make sounds in ITB so you can hear them when they're nearby
19:34 Fixer need to visit few cubes
19:34 Tenplus1 heh
19:34 sofar hopefully MicrosoftXP's box is done now, too
19:35 Tenplus1 eek, windows specific box
19:36 sofar that's just a players' name
19:36 Tenplus1 ohh, hahahaha
19:36 Tenplus1 gotta chck it out
19:38 paramat Fixer we already intend to add new engine sound features more suited to ambient sounds, i wrote that in the thread, my PR is just a simple experiment. if you want new sound features code them
19:41 sofar he doesn't code
19:44 Tenplus1 paramat: anyway to get the 2nd table in find_nodes_in_area to return positions also ?
19:44 Fixer sad part
19:44 Fixer people who can't code always want smth, and ones who code often don't want to
19:46 Fixer boxes are very nice
19:47 sofar afk
19:53 paramat erm, we could add a new find nodes API or alter the current
19:54 paramat i hadn't realised it was limited, makes my PR even more unsure :]
19:55 Tenplus1 so   local LIST = minetest.find_nodes_in_area_with_table(pos1, pos2, node_list)     (new command for eg.)
19:56 Tenplus1 could give node list with numbers and positions included for each...
20:13 rubenwardy return type could be list of lists
20:13 rubenwardy where the each list is for a thing in node_list
20:14 Tenplus1 {node, total_number, position}
20:28 Tenplus1 nite folks o/
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21:14 * Megaf is breaking on through to the other side
21:14 Megaf only the best people will get the reference
21:34 Calinou someone made a reference, but I didn't listen.
21:34 Calinou only the best people will get the reference
21:43 Megaf gimme shelter...
22:01 Megaf meh, 99% of people who join my server are on mobile clients
22:02 Megaf I know because of playernameYYY
22:02 Megaf Not giving interact to them :P
22:26 Shara Needs work, but my first attempt at adding trees to the map: http://gingercat.tk/dg/hw_pine_trees.png :)
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23:47 paramat Shara you inspired me https://github.com/minetest/minetest_g​ame/issues/2026#issuecomment-370189022
23:47 Shara Hah!
23:48 Shara Feel free to use the schemetic from mine if you want to, and just replace with default nodes
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