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IRC log for #minetest-hub, 2018-02-09

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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02:45 paramat minecore doesn't need picks it's already full of holes
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12:32 JordachNote8 Beep beep
12:32 JordachNote8 Finished my interview in london
12:32 JordachNote8 Currently on a train home
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15:23 Fixer RIP SP
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16:03 IhrFussel There was someone named "Jordach" on my server and I'm pretty sure it#s not the real one
16:04 IhrFussel But no bot either (talked in chat)
16:04 Mr_Pardison !seen Jordach
16:04 MinetestBot Mr_Pardison: jordach was last seen at 2018-02-08 12:28:13 UTC on ##minetestbot
16:05 Mr_Pardison yesterday, about 6 am local time for me.
16:07 IhrFussel I already know who it is...but I wonder why they chose that name...is it a common one? Doesn't sound like it
16:08 Mr_Pardison name thief.
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16:30 rubenwardy anyone know any good mods for ancient architecture - Greek/Roman
16:41 Krock only castles comes in my mind
16:45 benrob0329 Illuna's VIP server has some Greek builds, might want to ask on #illuna what they use
16:58 rubenwardy did some scouting
16:58 rubenwardy there's darkage, which is mostly medieval-ish
16:58 rubenwardy but has things like marble
16:59 Krock technic worldgen 8)
17:01 Mr_Pardison technic has other stuff which we shouldn't take for granite *ba dum tss*
17:03 rubenwardy huh
17:04 benrob0329 Heh
17:32 Raven262 rubenwardy, you might be looking for this https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=9&t=18208
17:32 rubenwardy oh nice!
17:32 rubenwardy perfect
17:32 rubenwardy thanks
17:33 Raven262 Np, It was the first thing that came to mind :)
17:33 Mr_Pardison that looks amazing.
17:33 Mr_Pardison really like what Greek designs look like.
17:40 Megaf I use castles and darkage
17:44 Jordach joined #minetest-hub
17:45 Megaf Hey Jordach
17:45 Mr_Pardison 'ello Jordach
17:45 Jordach i hurt
17:46 Jordach i went to london to do my interview
17:46 Jordach all done properly, i just hurt like fuck
17:46 Megaf define hurt
17:47 Jordach my knees nearly fucked me over 5 mins ago trying to get down
17:47 Megaf Jordach: Tho I'm very happy for you, because you had this opportunity
17:47 Megaf Jordach: how old are ya? You not too young to hurt your knees?
17:47 Megaf fat maybe?
17:47 Mr_Pardison we celebrate later when Jordach feels better as celebrating while not in your best shape isn't good for anyone.
17:48 Megaf well, it's just an interview...
17:48 Megaf I had some as well
17:48 Jordach Megaf: i can walk, just joints upto my knees have always been shit
17:48 Megaf I'm actually working on getting a job from the last one
17:48 Megaf it'd be nice if Jordach and me both get a job
17:49 Mr_Pardison that would be.
17:50 Megaf CBugDCoder: ThomasMonroe: We got some praying to do. :P
17:50 * Jordach has a soft blanket and sits back with some OwOwatch
17:50 benrob0329 Heya Jordach
17:50 Jordach my joints feel like icecubes
17:50 benrob0329 Ouch
17:51 benrob0329 Congrats on the job interview tho
18:10 Fixer Krock: TRIGGERED
18:11 Fixer OOM
18:12 Krock TRIGGER
18:13 Krock Fixer, download RAM now, guys.
18:13 Fixer Krock: technic worldgen and darkage mapgen both suck and crash with OOMs for me, unfortunately :(
18:14 Fixer I don't understand this, why not utilise CPP minetest apis to generate those custom ores?
18:15 Megaf There is a website where you can download RAM
18:15 Megaf here https://downloadmoreram.com/
18:16 Megaf Fixer: ^
18:16 Fixer "Cryptocurrency Mining Malware Infected Over Half-Million PCs Using NSA Exploit"
18:16 Megaf and can chose speed and size for the ram
18:16 Megaf From 4 GB to 32 GB
18:17 Megaf Fixer: lovely
18:17 benrob0329 Megaf: it wont work on Apple devices though, too locked down
18:17 Megaf benrob0329: I just used on my mac
18:18 Megaf oh wait, not yet
18:18 Megaf lemme try
18:18 Krock Fixer, perhaps the ore type does not exist as C++ function yet
18:18 Fixer Krock: i'm sure somewhere in lua api there is docs for generating ores
18:18 Fixer yeah, it is in lua, i was wrong
18:19 Fixer but it maybe be better to use lua api
18:19 Fixer and not custom
18:19 Megaf benrob0329: seems to have worked
18:19 Krock there's a generate_ores() function for VManip for custom Lua mapgens
18:21 Megaf whats the Lua function to make more RAM?
18:21 Krock none but there's a garbage collector function
18:26 Megaf We need a few of those in mInetest then
18:33 Krock Megaf, nothing helps minetest if it's an implementation and LuaJIT issue
18:35 Megaf The irony is not strong with this one
18:35 Krock well, a month ago I tried to speed up and reduce the RAM usage by doing dirty pointer accesses in LuaJIT using FFI: https://pastebin.com/raw/WXAydxT3
18:35 Megaf did it work?
18:35 Krock yes but the speed improvement is not noticeable
18:36 Megaf Minetest is pretty speedy already
18:36 Megaf it just takes too much resources for no use
18:57 paramat joined #minetest-hub
19:07 paramat for technic and darkage just register extra ores and core mapgen will generate them using c++, remove the lua ore gen code
19:11 Fixer yeah, so why don't they REMOVE?
19:12 paramat ask the author
19:13 xerox123 if I make a change while in sqlite3, should the change persist in dummy backend?
19:14 xerox123 because I made something while in sqlite3, quit the game, changed to dummy and the thing isn't there. but when I switch back it's there...
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19:16 Fixer paramat: also, will it reduce chance of OOM?
19:16 paramat yes, eliminate because core ore gen doesn't use lua memory
19:17 Fixer niiice
19:21 Fixer paramat: you mean this part and below? https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L1069
19:22 paramat no the ore API https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L4985
19:23 Fixer ty
19:24 Fixer paramat: it is suitable both for ores and blocks like big bazalt veins?
19:24 paramat also see https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L1143
19:24 paramat there is a vein ore yes but it's quite intensive, uses 2 3D noises
19:25 Fixer but it is in CPP? no lua mem limit?
19:25 Mr_Pardison joined #minetest-hub
19:25 paramat correct
19:26 paramat it's what core mapgen uses, only the interface is in lua
19:28 Fixer "Chainsaw digs entire forest instead of single tree " lol, nice
19:29 Mr-Pardison Fixer: I made a custom addition to the chainsaw where it would cut down ethereal plant life.
19:30 Mr-Pardison didn't submit it in a PR tho.
19:30 Fixer Mr-Pardison: https://github.com/minetes​t-mods/technic/issues/375
19:31 Mr-Pardison yeah.
19:31 Mr-Pardison I'm cordial-cobra.
19:31 Mr-Pardison think I should put a PR for it?
19:32 Fixer yes
19:32 Mr-Pardison kewel.
19:33 Mr-Pardison will have to grab it off my flash drive first (which I don't have on me) and then make the PR.
19:33 Mr-Pardison should be up either Monday or Tuesday at the latest.
19:34 * Shara reads issue thread
19:34 * Shara remembers why she doesn't let technic be on her servers
19:34 sofar technic has an open exploit still I think
19:34 Mr-Pardison issue is for it to respect protection.
19:34 sofar formspec exploit
19:35 Fixer Mr-Pardison: i mean, if you have already done PR and you use it and it is kinda fun, wth not to post it :)
19:35 Shara I never even looked at it closley, but it felt full of problems to me
19:35 Mr-Pardison I haven't made a PR yet but will do so by Tuesday at the latest.
19:35 sofar tbh it's only one, and I did a pretty in-depth scan of it
19:35 Mr-Pardison it should be up by Monday.
19:35 Shara It's quite possibly the mod I've been begged to add the most times... but no, never
19:36 benrob0329 I like servers that add content smartly
19:36 Fixer Shara: thats why we need simpler technic, that has basic mashines and tubes, not too complicated
19:36 Shara benrob0329: I try.
19:36 benrob0329 You can have a decent game without using really heavy code
19:36 Shara In all honesty, I didn't have much clue about how to judge good mods from bad when I started, but I took time to learn, and then corrected mistakes.
19:37 Shara Which is why RC has a whole bunch of mods that have been massively edited from the originals.
19:38 Shara Mostly in ways that don't need much maintenance
19:39 Shara Mesecons is probably the mod I use which I'm most cautious about now
19:39 paramat for good reason
19:40 Shara I have most of the nodes requiring a priv in order to be placed
19:40 Shara But the server still gets an occasional "lag machine" built on it
19:40 Mr-Pardison and those of us that have it must be very careful.
19:41 Shara I think servers that add lots of machine type mods (mostly if they are also creative) with no restrictions in place are just asking for trouble.
19:42 Megaf the very reason I never installed Technic is safety
19:42 Megaf I have same simular concirns about Mesecons, tho in Mesecons I can just disable the modules I dont want
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19:57 Shara Megaf: restrict by privs if you have worries. That's what I do
20:13 Sokomine rubenwardy: ask twoelk. he has built ancient roman houses
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20:16 Sokomine Fixer: darkage is too old for the newer features in the api that support spawning of materials the way darkage needs it. i'm not even sure which fork is most up-to-date. which is a pity because it's a very nice mod
20:19 Sokomine Shara: not much point having technic on a creative server
20:19 Shara Sokomine: you'd be surprised
20:20 Shara For many players it's just about making machines, not about the machines then producing anything you need
20:21 Sokomine Fixer: simpler technic as such doesn't help. it's the actual usage of such nodes that makes it painful. these machine usually generate something from something else, taking materials and time. if it takes a lot of time and requires the mapblock to be loaded, people will build their machine park as close to spawn as they can in order to keep it loaded and "get rich". nobody wants to just stand next
20:21 Sokomine to his machines for ages. so...spawn gets sloooow
20:22 Megaf [20:20:21] <Shara> For many players it's just about making machines, not about the machines then producing anything you need
20:22 * Megaf hides
20:22 * Megaf hides his machine that is able to build every single craftable item automatically
20:23 Megaf (machine also gathers resources on its own)
20:23 Megaf and its modular
20:23 Megaf and biug
20:23 Megaf big
20:23 Sokomine Shara: making machines that work just for the fun of it is certainly valid. could be done on a small seperate server
20:24 * Sokomine takes sharas build-machine-priv away from megaf and places megaf far away from spawn just to be sure :-)
20:25 Megaf my machine is actually close to spawn so it gets activated more often
20:25 Megaf I went as far as building a city on top of the machine
20:25 ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-hub
20:26 Sokomine megaf: that's what i mean. was very prominent on landrush. the place below the mostly inconspicious looking spawn was plastered with underground floors filled with machinery
20:27 Megaf tho the city and machine are after active range from spawn
20:27 Sokomine and vanessaes survival server got a lot of complex machinery that produce almost anything right below spawn. i still think that's what's making it almost impossible to do anything on the server :-(
20:28 Shara I sadly find the VE servers mostly unplayable, or at least whichever ones it is that have those issues.
20:29 Sokomine i don't think that "takes time" is a good approach for machines gameplay-wise. that's also why you need to hit the "machines" in cottages repeatedly and click on a button in the plasterwork machine
20:31 Sokomine yes, sadly. my computer suffers a lot at ve-s. yet it's also the server i like most
20:31 VanessaE Shara:  :(
20:34 Shara VanessaE: whichever the server was that I last joined - I can't even join without my client crashing now
20:35 VanessaE looks like it was my Dreambuilder Survival
20:35 Shara I guess it would work from a different name though. Seems to be linked to that one spot (I was using a different name anyway I think)
20:35 Megaf AFAIK VE servers use high res textures
20:35 VanessaE it's up to the engine devs to fix your crashed.
20:35 VanessaE es*
20:35 VanessaE Megaf: nope.
20:36 Shara And I wish they would :)
20:36 Megaf VanessaE: Im quite sure I saw a VE server with high res texture paclk
20:36 Megaf tho this was like, 4 or 5 years ago
20:36 VanessaE Megaf: no, you didn't.
20:37 VanessaE none of my servers have ever run custom texture packs, let alone high res textures
20:37 * Megaf is going crazy
20:37 VanessaE and my oldest server is only like 3y old
20:37 Megaf maybe I was crazy back then and now Im getting better, most likely
20:37 VanessaE heh
20:38 Megaf This week was quite good for me, brain wise
20:41 Sokomine VanessaE: yes. and you say "only". and buildings are kept from the beginning and preserved. that's one of the points why i love your server so much even though i can't really join it anymore
20:41 VanessaE :)
20:41 Sokomine other server owners sadly switch maps like their underpants
20:42 Megaf I had 3 map switches in 6 years
20:42 VanessaE I basically only switch maps if the map file becomes corrupt, or the world becomes so horribly organized that it can't be cleaned up.
20:42 Shara I've never switched.
20:42 Megaf tho I cound as 2 map switch because the first one I count as a total different server
20:42 Sokomine Shara: your server is still a newcommer compared to vanessas :)
20:42 Megaf count*
20:43 Shara Not really if her oldest is only about 3 years
20:43 twoelk joined #minetest-hub
20:43 VanessaE 1 actual map switch in 3 or so years (I don't count the original VE-Creative map, the original server was just for testing)
20:43 Shara Mine's into it's third year you realise
20:43 Megaf Megaf Server, Megaf Till It Ends ands Megaf After The End (AKA Megaf Server v4)
20:43 Megaf Till it Ends and After The End I count as same server with different map
20:44 Megaf reason it has 5 years "only"
20:44 Sokomine VanessaE: yes, and that switch from the very first map to the second one was a very well-done switch. not just "ups, er, let's take a new map" but instead as well-built spawn and roads as possible plus saving of what was worth saving. good maintenance and cleanup. wish all server owners would be that way
20:45 Sokomine Shara: hmm. i'm pretty sure it has to be older than that. your rc-server came a lot later
20:45 VanessaE in any case, it's up to the core devs to make the client gracefully handle what the server throws at it
20:45 Shara Sokomine: Probably depends on map restarts?
20:45 Shara I'm sure I remember people talking about one of the VE servers just having had a map restart around the time I first began hosting
20:45 Sokomine Shara: hm, no. but i'm pretty sure vanessas server is older than just 3 years. with the same map
20:45 Sokomine would have to check old screenshots to be sure
20:45 VanessaE Sokomine: don't forget daily backups, and the well-planned public mains grid on VE-Survival :)
20:46 Shara But I was never sure how long ago the thing they talked about was
20:46 Shara Either way, stop calling me a newcomer.
20:46 VanessaE oh my
20:46 Shara I've been here long enough for you to take me seriously now :P
20:46 VanessaE VE-Creative is 4.9 years old?
20:46 Shara Impressive :)
20:46 Sokomine VanessaE: the daily backups are of high value :-) and that's not the only thing: backups are actually used if needed, griefers are thrown out if possible
20:46 VanessaE (VE-S is 3.2y)
20:47 Sokomine the well-planned public mains grid is rather a step in the other direction :-) i suspect it contributes to me not really beeing able to join :-)
20:47 VanessaE Sokomine: nah, it's much leaner than it used to be
20:48 Sokomine Shara: *g* it's all just relative :) mt as such is a newcomer. redcrab...well, that is old :) or was. sadly does not seem to work any longer
20:48 VanessaE and the overhead lines are high enough that they'll be out of view on the slowest clients (short view range)
20:49 Sokomine Shara: and don't worry. it looks as if your server will work for a long time. it is very close to vanessaes approach of maintaining a server and does fit what i expect of a server very very closely. it's only that it's creative...just really can't handle that as such. creative priv is fine, creative mode is...tricky
20:49 Sokomine VanessaE: i still look in fear at all the produce-everything-machines around spawn :-)
20:50 VanessaE Sokomine: that's ironic coming from someone who maintains a Technic store near the spawn ;)
20:50 Fixer Sokomine: spawn gets slow even without those damn machines
20:50 Sokomine having to switch between too diffrent digging speeds is somewhat tricky for me. it's more about controlling the client
20:50 * Sokomine looks innocently at VanessaE
20:51 Sokomine (need to...er...gather some minegeld somehow :))
20:51 Sokomine when i built that i thought of small tiny household-machines - mini-networks, not connected :-)
20:51 VanessaE heh
20:52 Sokomine fixer: hm. if there are still other reasons for making spawn slower then those ought to be located and eliminated
20:52 VanessaE in any case,
20:53 Fixer Sokomine: unless spawn is protected entirely, it tends to be slower with time due to digging around and below causing more and more complexity and render
20:53 VanessaE there's really no reason clients should render spawn so poorly just because it has lots of mostly-hidden machines - it's the server running the machines' code, not the client.
20:54 Sokomine fixer: sounds convincing. but that'd affect other areas with complex structures as well? maybe it's just less obvious there. or less complex
20:54 Sokomine VanessaE: i suspect it's the frequent updates. you can't send the mapblock with spawn to the client once and then hope it's done. all those mapblocks change constantly and need to get sent, processed and displayed by the client
20:54 Fixer VanessaE: minetest actually renders shitton of stuff below and above and behind buildings
20:55 VanessaE Sokomine: that'd be fine if there were visible changes taking place all the time, but there just aren't
20:55 * Sokomine eyes all the traffic lights, machines, displays and the like
20:56 VanessaE Fixer: yeah, I know it does.  That really REALLY needs addressed.
20:56 VanessaE Sokomine: only one display screen, and only a dozen or so lights that change only every few seconds
20:57 VanessaE whatever's slowing the rendering down must, by definition, be in the dozens-of-times-a-second domain, not every few seconds
20:57 Sokomine every few seconds - that's still something :-) and those machines in the underground aren't fixed either. some grow plants, harvest them, turn them into other materials...lots and lots of metadata changing
20:58 VanessaE if the server is sending mapblock updates dozens of times a second, that's also an engine problem.
20:58 Sokomine hm. could be. still, i doubt that all these frequent updates make it easier
21:00 VanessaE not to mention, dozens-a-second would just plain kill your network bandwidth
21:00 VanessaE so no.
21:00 VanessaE since that isn't happening, this is a client problem
21:02 Sokomine hmm
21:03 VanessaE Sokomine: remember, RBA once said the signs are being composited and re-rendered continuously in realtime rather than being cached
21:03 Sokomine maybe not dozens-a-second. still...frequently. maybe in the range of 2 seconds or so? the plants grow, the nodebreaker eats them, pipeworks sends the nodes on, machines process it, chests receive the output...that does mean quite frequent changes. not mulitple per second but many
21:03 VanessaE (as in all the [combine and related compositing strings)
21:03 Sokomine oh
21:04 VanessaE idk if that's actually accurate, but if he said it, it has a grain of truth
21:04 Sokomine certainly
21:04 Mr-Pardison fixer: will have that PR up by tuesday.
21:04 Mr-Pardison g2g cya
21:05 Jordach you know those spy kids movies with iris scanners and all that sci-fi
21:05 Sokomine he was the expert in that area. i don't think too much has changed in that area since then
21:05 VanessaE and remember, those are static signs, they never change unless someone walks over and edits one.
21:05 Jordach i just realised we have that *now*
21:07 Sokomine VanessaE: maybe it all sums up
21:08 Sokomine Jordach: don't remember if i ever saw more of that film than a part. wasn't that intresting iirc. what else apart from iris scanners was shown there? such scanners can be seen in many movies, not even really sf
21:09 Jordach Sokomine: we've not had comsumer grade iris scanners that are actual sci-fi style with near instant recognition
21:10 benrob0329 #Minetest-Chat
21:10 Jordach my phone can look at me in near darkness and unlock itself by having my iris' checked
21:10 Jordach ^ normies only :^)
21:11 benrob0329 Unless you want people to complain about the logs...
21:11 Sokomine Jordach: ah. wouldn't allow my phone to do that
21:11 Sokomine hmm. having one that follows your eye movements instead of doing an iris scan might be intresting. and use that for steering in mt :-)
21:12 Calinou Chuck Norris does not get authenticated by his phone. Instead, his phone is authenticated by him.
21:12 Calinou sorry, 2011 called
21:12 VanessaE Sokomine: possibly.   plus frequent technic metadata updates cause mapblocks to be re-sent/re-rendered. sadly I can't do anything to fix any of it.
21:12 VanessaE plus I won't generally touch technic's code.  that whole damn mod needs rewritten from scratch.
21:12 Calinou I still remember these jokes :-)
21:12 Jordach Sokomine: we can do that now! https://tobiigaming.com/products/
21:12 Megaf !server <egaf
21:12 MinetestBot Megaf: No results
21:12 Megaf !server egaf
21:13 Megaf MinetestBot!
21:13 MinetestBot Megaf!
21:13 benrob0329 Why is -chat more on topic than -hub 🤔🤔🤔
21:13 Megaf !server Megaf
21:13 MinetestBot Megaf: Megaf Server v4 | 163.172.154.119:30003 | Clients: 0/20, 0/0 | Version: 0.4.17-Megaf / MegafXploreNext | Ping: 12ms
21:13 Sokomine benrob0329: sorry. i hope it's not too off-topic. but...what good servers are and why (even if it's only my personal opinon) is not too far from what the channel is good for :) and wondering why the engine can't handle spawn is something that bothers all of us in some way. i'd be very glad if a solution could be found
21:13 VanessaE why does it even matter if it's on-topic in here, if there's no other chat going?
21:13 benrob0329 Sokomine: oh I wasn't talking about that
21:14 benrob0329 I was talking about tech-talk
21:14 Shara I don't see how -chat is more ontopic than -hub
21:14 Sokomine VanessaE: so that paramat and other devs have a chance of catching up without having to read unrelated chat
21:14 VanessaE heh
21:15 Fixer VanessaE: there a fix for that, PR by Krock, still not included for some reason
21:15 VanessaE Fixer: for what?
21:15 Fixer VanessaE: block meta updates
21:15 VanessaE oh
21:16 Megaf so, CSM
21:16 VanessaE you mean the server-only/private meta patch?
21:16 VanessaE Fixer: ^
21:16 red-001 does that not block updates?
21:16 Fixer VanessaE: RBA original PR
21:16 Sokomine fixer: oh? but is it really only metadata? i don't remember right now if a machine that's working is a different one from one that's inactive
21:16 VanessaE red-001: private meta is never sent to the client, so no mapblock updates when it changes.
21:17 VanessaE Fixer: link?
21:17 red-001 VanessaE, I would expect that too
21:17 Fixer VanessaE: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/5268 (bump it)
21:18 Sokomine does private meta help if it's some visible inventory that is beeing changed while the machine generates it? can't make that private?
21:18 VanessaE that's what I thought, Fixer
21:19 VanessaE Sokomine: sure, the idea is to only use "public"/normal metadata if it goes along with something else that'll cause a mapblock update anyway, or if the client really needs it, e.g. inventories or infotext, and private for literally everything else.
21:22 VanessaE as I recall, technic's power cables all carry some meta, but they never change appearance unless someone or something adds, removes, or moves a piece of cable.
21:22 VanessaE so private meta would be perfect for those.
21:22 Jordach VanessaE: public is better
21:22 Jordach mods can get the meta properly
21:23 VanessaE Jordach: "public" as in visible-to-clients.
21:23 VanessaE not as in visible-to-mods.
21:25 Sokomine ah, for cables. that sounds good. there're still all those machines that need to update their inventory. and the chests (until they're spilling over)
21:26 VanessaE it's just an example, Sokomine, and I'm not even sure I'm right.
21:26 VanessaE in any case, someone's gotta fix it...
21:30 Jordach https://i.imgur.com/hBTlaCD.png gahhh
21:30 Jordach trying to find an optimal solution
21:30 Jordach so harrrrrrd
21:31 Megaf red-001: we failed with -chat. chat is totally on topic
21:31 Megaf (that was a joke)
21:31 benrob0329 Jordach: all those extra faces, eww
21:31 Jordach benrob0329: those aren't actually per pixel tris
21:31 Jordach those are 1 quad per 8px strips
21:31 benrob0329 Still tho
21:31 Megaf Jordach: have you ever tried a NURBs modeler instead of a mesh based one?
21:32 Jordach benrob0329: doing this makes it easier to render extruded models without uploading the mesh to ram
21:32 Jordach see HDX
21:32 Jordach 1 generated mesh to x*y px
21:32 Jordach (based on texture def)
21:32 Jordach just reuse it and use alpha to hide the missing faces
21:33 Jordach https://i.imgur.com/QGINNlU.png
21:33 Jordach benrob0329: ^
21:33 Jordach the outside pixel strips are cuboids
21:33 Jordach and the internals are horizontal strips
21:34 benrob0329 Fair enough
21:34 Jordach it's done even better than numzero's generator which uploads to ram rather than reusing models
21:35 Jordach all you need to do is check pixel sizes of all registered tools and inv_images
21:35 Jordach and make a one size fits all mesh based on textures + tpack
21:36 Jordach you not only save on ram: but it allows for ANIMATED EXTRUDED MESHES
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22:06 Mr_Pardison Fixer: https://github.com/minetest-mods/technic​/compare/master...cordial-cobra:patch-1
22:07 Mr_Pardison !title
22:07 MinetestBot Mr_Pardison: Comparing minetest-mods:master...cordial-cobra:patch-1 · minetest-mods/technic · GitHub
22:07 Jordach Mr_Pardison: are you mostly harmless with that cobra ;)
22:07 Mr_Pardison Jordach: why would I want to harm anyone other than them trying to mess with me or one of my friends in a mean way?
22:08 Jordach you missed the elite reference
22:08 Mr_Pardison I wouldn't have gotten it anyway since I have no idea what that is.
22:10 Mr_Pardison so, anyone have any comments on my PR
22:10 Mr_Pardison *?
22:10 Mr_Pardison I appreciate any feedback since it helps improve my work.
22:12 IhrFussel Any flatearthers in here?
22:13 IhrFussel xD
22:13 sfan5 Minetest's earth is certainly flat
22:13 Jordach sfan5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztAg643gJBA
22:13 sfan5 !title
22:13 MinetestBot sfan5: Is a round Minecraft world possible? - YouTube
22:13 sfan5 expected
22:13 Jordach hai jeija
22:14 IhrFussel Flatearthers are spamming SpaceX videos about the recent rocket launch and the starman spinning around earth ... and I never knew that they also don't even believe in space?? Like what?
22:15 Mr_Pardison they aren't very bright.
22:15 Mr_Pardison like a dim bulb.
22:16 Krock Mr_Pardison, you need something to compare as a dim bulb is also quite bright compared to the darkess in space
22:18 Krock minetest worlds aren't flat when v5,6,7,math,valleys or carpathian are used
22:18 Krock definition of flat? 8)
22:19 Mr_Pardison Krock: now that you're around, mind checking out my PR for technic and tell me what you think?
22:20 IhrFussel Well the rocket launch is real...the landing is also real (there are many amateur videos of it on YT) ... the only "unbelievable" thing is the dummy in the car spinning around earth..it actually really looks quite fake... here it is sped up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0c3sXRaZDA
22:20 Amaz Krock: if you enable hills or lakes in the flat mapgen, that isn't flat either ;)
22:20 Krock Mr_Pardison, I'm not member if minetest-mods, so I'm not the best person you can ask for that
22:21 Mr_Pardison any suggestions as to whom I should talk to about reviewing this?
22:21 Krock Amaz, flat != flat. mind = blown -> flat mind = flat blown -> ???? != ??? '???
22:22 Amaz :D
22:22 Krock Mr_Pardison, look out for the repository owners, whether someone is active
22:27 Fixer !tell Mr_Pardison i see a saw charge change, it should probably be out of this PR
22:27 MinetestBot Fixer: I'll pass that on when Mr_Pardison is around
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22:43 benrob0329 IhrFussel: "it all CG because I definitely know about such things" is all I hear. So sad
22:45 benrob0329 Half of them probably aren't even legit, because its become a meme at this point
22:46 red-001 yeah that camare feed from the car felt a bit werid since it wasn't really what you expect, since space is serious business (tm) (r)
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22:47 IhrFussel benrob0329, it looks a lot like CGI, but it could be real...I watched a video comparing the weather of different locations (clouds) to the one in the footage and it matched
22:48 benrob0329 >where's the moon
22:48 benrob0329 Hate to tell you this, but the moon is a lot smaller than you think
22:50 red-001 "how can we hear music if it's in space?" -- some flat earther, somewhere on a spheroid
22:52 benrob0329 Oh gosh
22:52 benrob0329 That can't be legit
22:52 red-001 well the world is clearly a flat surfrace mapped into a torus
22:53 paramat VanessaE meh, stop blaming the devs for everything :] part of the blame is the sheer complexity of your servers, and all the mesh updates. we're always trying to improve performance
22:53 paramat "there's really no reason clients should render spawn so poorly just because it has lots of mostly-hidden machines" yes there is :]
22:56 paramat hmm i hope there isn't on-topic chat at -chat, because then i'll have to monitor that and we're back to the same problem
22:56 paramat we need an 'offtopic' channel for only offtopic
22:58 Shara paramat: never going to happen
22:58 red-001 yeah
22:58 VanessaE paramat: mapblock updates should be cached server-side
22:58 Shara But if I notice anything in -chat you need to know about, will tell you
22:58 red-001 that isn't how people talk
22:59 VanessaE more than one or two a second to each client is overkill and you know it.
23:01 VanessaE and besides, if the server has to send something to the client that slows down the renderer, that's the client's fault for not handling it properly.
23:04 VanessaE paramat: so.  tell me something:  let's assume RBA's claim that "[combine" and other compositing operations are being re-processed client-side every frame.  assuming there's no other choice but to use compositing, what would be the correct solution, given all the manpower, time, etc. it would take to do it right?
23:06 VanessaE (to me, the solution is simple: perform the compositing one time only, and "re-render" only the completed, static image)
23:06 paramat IhrFussel Elon's quote about the car says it well: "You can tell it's real because it looks so fake, honestly. We'd have way better CGI if it was fake. The colors all look kind of weird in space. There's no atmospheric occlusion; everything's too crisp"
23:07 VanessaE haha
23:07 VanessaE paramat: don't panic ;Z)
23:07 VanessaE ;)
23:08 red-001 plus its a car in space surely space x would fake something more believable
23:10 VanessaE red-001: I still think Elon shoulda made the mannequin animatronic ;)
23:10 red-001 then livestream it on youtube with jump scares
23:11 VanessaE not THAT kind :P
23:11 VanessaE I was thinking more along the lines of a simple wave or something :)
23:12 VanessaE (or as others have made the comparison, to take the similarity to "Heavy Metal" a bit further)
23:12 paramat a client cannot ignore updates, so slowdown is inevitable. also, updates have to be sent, caching them probably has issues
23:13 paramat no idea about compositing =)
23:13 paramat servers have to take *some* responsibility for overloading MT
23:14 paramat but yes much engine work is needed too
23:15 VanessaE paramat: mapblock updates should be cached server-side, and received updates can be just stored up client side if it decides there's not enough time to process the update
23:15 VanessaE there's no reason, for example, that you couldn't delay processing an update by say half a second.
23:15 Fixer but that Jeija video is not Minecraft, but Minetest
23:16 paramat what if the updates are constantly high-rate? it can't catch up. also, memory use
23:17 VanessaE paramat: then it can discard old updates if there's something newer for the same mapblock.
23:17 paramat anyway, i'm no expert :]
23:17 paramat hmm well at least there's a channel where excessive offtopic can be moved too, that's good
23:18 VanessaE I'd say the current discussion is as on-topic aas it can get.
23:18 paramat ah good point
23:18 paramat (about discarding)
23:20 Sokomine so if the client doesn't redraw the mapblock every time it receives a change but just from time to time? might help to some degree. the block the player is standing on plus adjacent ones would still need immediate updates (imagine player digging/building)
23:21 VanessaE Sokomine: that's my point yes.
23:23 paramat worth an issue
23:24 paramat ugh there are capitals in the name of the chat channel
23:24 VanessaE paramat: another point, as you know my servers use a lot of entities.  entities are slow to render compared to a node with the same model, even if the entities are just sitting in one place, non-animated, totally static. Solve that, the compositing issue (if true), the mapblock updates question, the private metadata issue, and make the view range automatic again, and I'll bet it'll make things good agian.
23:25 VanessaE well, and the occlusion culling problem too
23:27 VanessaE these problems have existed for years, and us modders have done our best to keep up, but those ^ are things we just cannot work around.  As server owners, we can't avoid the heavy mods, or we lose traffic. that's why I blame the devs.
23:28 Shara Hah, paramat - that bugged me too!
23:30 Shara But VanessaE has some very good points. My survival server has been intentionally kept as light as I possibly can keep it, while still having just enough to catch players attention... but it has hit plenty of problems
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23:30 Shara Hi tumeninodes
23:31 tumeninodes HI Shara
23:31 VanessaE > mentions heavy mods
23:31 VanessaE > "too many nodes" joins channel
23:31 tumeninodes Hi Vanessa
23:31 Shara Heh
23:31 VanessaE your timing is impeccable, tumeninodes  :)
23:31 tumeninodes it's a gift
23:31 Shara But there can never be too many nodes!
23:31 tumeninodes nope..., just one
23:32 IhrFussel I implemented a "hack protection" now ... if a user tries to connect too many times within a short timeframe, the login is blocked for 1 minute
23:32 tumeninodes eh, my joke was premature
23:33 tumeninodes paramat, would love to talk more about that stairs/water issue I mention before. I have no idea how to integrate it into the stairs mod
23:34 tumeninodes I will be back and forth from keyboard very randomly
23:37 IhrFussel The skywars server has anticheat disabled?? Lol...I see Android users taking blocks from far away
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23:44 garywhite Can someone tell me if Minetest Android is written in C++/Lua just like the PC/Mac/Linux versions?
23:45 red-001 yes
23:45 red-001 IhrFussel, huh how? reading the log?
23:46 garywhite Someone seems to think that this tool from Google to turn the APK for MT into an iPhone app
23:47 red-001 speaking of that pretty sure multicraft has code for running on IOS in thier repo
23:48 red-001 can we backport thier code or did they go GPL?
23:49 IhrFussel red-001, no, the only way to do it purely via Lua is just counting the number of connect attempts within X secs and *assume* that it's likely a "brute-force" attack
23:57 paramat VanessaE entities can never be as lightweight as a node obviously. view range is manual so a player can alter it according to the environment, so that is a non-issue
23:58 paramat "As server owners, we can't avoid the heavy mods, or we lose traffic" yes you can and some servers do. servers can be good without poorly coded overkill mods

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