| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:08 |
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| 01:03 |
Megaf |
#6965 |
| 01:03 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6965 -- [WIP] Basic pause menu settings by ThomasMonroe314 |
| 01:30 |
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| 11:14 |
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| 11:28 |
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| 11:29 |
IhrFussel |
Guys I have a player on my server that seems like flying in 1 specific direction every 2 sec...it's like it's moving into 1 direction every 2 secs or so |
| 11:29 |
sfan5 |
high latency |
| 11:33 |
IhrFussel |
Doesn't look like latency to me o.o ... even when dead the player continues to move |
| 11:36 |
sfan5 |
anticheat prevents dead players from moving |
| 11:36 |
sfan5 |
well no, dead players can't move regardless of anticheat settings |
| 11:37 |
IhrFussel |
You're right...the player respawned but the skin state didn't change yet |
| 11:37 |
IhrFussel |
But that still doesn't look like latency to me |
| 11:42 |
IhrFussel |
sfan5, latency can make it look like a player using fly and noclip for 3+ minutes? |
| 11:42 |
sfan5 |
nah |
| 11:43 |
IhrFussel |
Then it must be a bot? |
| 11:43 |
IhrFussel |
It only moves every 1.5 - 2 secs in the exact same direction |
| 11:44 |
sfan5 |
no idea |
| 11:49 |
IhrFussel |
In case it was a new kind of bot...could it be linked to Shara's problem? |
| 11:51 |
IhrFussel |
I see LOTS of "2018-01-22 02:44:56: ACTION[Server]: Player sallee moved too fast; resetting position" in the log... |
| 11:52 |
IhrFussel |
That was very very weird...never saw something like that before |
| 11:57 |
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| 11:59 |
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| 12:38 |
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| 12:53 |
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| 13:10 |
Megaf |
[11:42:16] <IhrFussel> sfan5, latency can make it look like a player using fly and noclip for 3+ minutes? |
| 13:10 |
Megaf |
yep |
| 13:10 |
Megaf |
not latency alone |
| 13:10 |
Megaf |
combine a slow device with problematic internet |
| 13:10 |
Megaf |
then yes |
| 13:11 |
Megaf |
[11:51:31] <IhrFussel> I see LOTS of "2018-01-22 02:44:56: ACTION[Server]: Player sallee moved too fast; resetting position" in the log... |
| 13:11 |
Megaf |
That's why we disable anticheat |
| 13:11 |
Megaf |
it causes more harm than good |
| 13:11 |
sfan5 |
lol sure |
| 13:13 |
red-001 |
rubberbanding doesn't tend to be bad in minetest compare to some other games |
| 13:13 |
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| 13:15 |
IhrFussel |
Megaf, did you watch the video I linked earlier? That looked a lot like programmatically movement |
| 13:17 |
Megaf |
IhrFussel: I could totally explain that with my already exlained explanation |
| 13:17 |
Megaf |
[13:10:45] <Megaf> combine a slow device with problematic internet |
| 13:17 |
Megaf |
I've seen it many times in 6 years |
| 13:18 |
Megaf |
specially when Minetest uses all my 4 GB of RAM an my computer just hangs trashing IO, that's how people see me |
| 13:18 |
IhrFussel |
But right after I killed the player he respawned and continued with that movement...I tried that 3 times |
| 13:18 |
Megaf |
IhrFussel: that confirmes is just a hang computer with bad internet |
| 13:18 |
Megaf |
relax man |
| 13:19 |
Megaf |
Minetest is bad and ineficient by design |
| 13:19 |
IhrFussel |
AFAIK the PC/device cannot respawn by itself |
| 13:19 |
Megaf |
and with UDP we can't check the network, we just get pieces of things |
| 13:19 |
IhrFussel |
It requires user interaction to respawn |
| 13:19 |
Megaf |
yep, maybe he did manage to click respawn |
| 13:19 |
Megaf |
or maybe is a shitty android fork |
| 13:20 |
Megaf |
that does that automatically |
| 13:22 |
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| 13:31 |
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| 13:34 |
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| 13:41 |
Megaf |
Foks, did we ever tested TCP instead of UDP? |
| 13:42 |
Megaf |
Wrong channgel, but stil |
| 14:00 |
IhrFussel |
I managed to implement an "atk up" potion on my server which increases the damage of players for 60 secs ... now it will feel a bit more RPG-like |
| 14:15 |
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| 14:20 |
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| 14:26 |
Megaf |
rubenwardy: KS-6 is VERY VERY tempting |
| 14:26 |
Megaf |
KS-6Intel Xeon 2xE55308c/16t2.4GHz24GB DDR3 ECC 1066 MHz 2TB 100 Mbps/128$37.99 |
| 14:29 |
ThomasMonroe |
O_O |
| 14:29 |
Megaf |
that would be faster than any Linode offer CPU wise |
| 14:42 |
Jordach |
^^ |
| 14:42 |
Jordach |
i want shit with good bitrate in FLAC |
| 14:43 |
Megaf |
same |
| 14:45 |
Megaf |
Not a great audio capture tho |
| 14:46 |
Megaf |
Now, if you search for hans zimmer vinyl you will find some good stuff |
| 14:50 |
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| 15:10 |
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| 15:46 |
Fixer |
just don't play FLAC on $10 USD headphones |
| 16:00 |
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| 16:10 |
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| 16:14 |
benrob0329 |
Looking foreward to catching and releasing fireflies :D |
| 16:15 |
Megaf |
Fixer: I already had some pretty good 10 USD headphones man |
| 16:15 |
Megaf |
amazing sound quality, not so great build quality... |
| 16:15 |
Mr_Pardison |
I presume u mean the ones that look like mini travelnet boxes and not irl ones as it isn't quite time for them yet. |
| 16:16 |
benrob0329 |
Make a huge cave with fireflies giving it a nice atmospheric glow |
| 16:17 |
benrob0329 |
Mr_Pardison: the ones probably going to make it into MTG 0.5 |
| 16:17 |
benrob0329 |
Shara's mod |
| 16:17 |
Mr_Pardison |
Would be happy to see those. |
| 16:17 |
benrob0329 |
Could be nice for videos |
| 16:17 |
Mr_Pardison |
I'd keep them in glass jars and use them for lights if possible. |
| 16:18 |
benrob0329 |
Pretty soon I'll have custom lighting setups for shots when doing videos lol |
| 16:18 |
benrob0329 |
The world's first MT filming production |
| 16:32 |
ThomasMonroe |
yay? |
| 16:34 |
Megaf |
I once had a mod that gave a torch that you held in your hand and it lit the way as you moved |
| 16:35 |
Megaf |
For me that was like magic and I could never find that mod again |
| 16:35 |
Calinou |
it was server-side, so it caused tons of lag |
| 16:35 |
ThomasMonroe |
yeah sooo much lag |
| 16:36 |
ThomasMonroe |
hey Megaf, I think I'm gonna add the enable_build_where_you_stand option to the pause menu |
| 16:44 |
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CWz joined #minetest-hub |
| 16:53 |
benrob0329 |
ThomasMonroe: noclip does that |
| 16:53 |
benrob0329 |
Or is that build where your head it |
| 16:53 |
ThomasMonroe |
try building under your feet with and without that setting :P |
| 16:54 |
benrob0329 |
If its only your head then the setting could just be combined with niclip for simplicity |
| 17:11 |
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| 17:15 |
Sokomine |
was realtest moved in the forum to old mods or so? |
| 17:16 |
Sokomine |
megaf: wieldlight or something like that |
| 17:16 |
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| 17:16 |
Megaf |
light calculations should be done on the server of course, |
| 17:17 |
Megaf |
but the actual rendering should be client side |
| 17:17 |
red-001 |
ThomasMonroe, what for_ |
| 17:18 |
red-001 |
seems if someone wants to use it they will just set it and keep it that way |
| 17:20 |
ThomasMonroe |
its useful for building sometimes, but it gets annoying when you are trying to do other things |
| 17:20 |
Calinou |
Megaf: frequent light calculations are too much for the server, I guess the server should only send the position of the invisible light node and let the client do the rest |
| 17:20 |
Calinou |
or, you know, use hardware dynamic lights for this |
| 17:20 |
Calinou |
(which won't affect plant growth and mob spawning, but it probably doesn't matter) |
| 17:20 |
Calinou |
this is what OptiFine does |
| 17:20 |
Megaf |
Calinou: problem is, how would a sapling know when to grow? |
| 17:23 |
red-001 |
Megaf, use static lighting? |
| 17:24 |
red-001 |
I say it's fine if saplings aren't effected by sun movement or a torch the player is holding |
| 17:25 |
Calinou |
Megaf: as I said, the server wouldn't know about it |
| 17:25 |
Calinou |
but I don't think it matters |
| 17:29 |
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Darcidride_ joined #minetest-hub |
| 17:47 |
IhrFussel |
Why is it that most servers run by kids (no offense) are a total clusterfrick? |
| 17:49 |
IhrFussel |
Like arguing about who will be admin, who will be hoster ... talking about "xyz is a hacker maybe" just because they guessed the password right...those forum topics are totally dumb |
| 17:49 |
Mr-Pardison |
because they don't know what they are doing. |
| 17:50 |
IhrFussel |
They trust their "friends" who they likely never met too much |
| 17:51 |
IhrFussel |
Not saying you should only trust persons you know in RL but mature people just know when it#s enough to trust somebody |
| 17:56 |
red-001 |
> implying thier irl friends wouldn't also mess up the server |
| 17:58 |
Fixer |
IhrFussel: because kids are not 1.0 enough to get things done, heck, even lots of adults are not 1.0, look at politicians for example |
| 18:11 |
Calinou |
kid 0.1.0 beta-rc1 |
| 18:21 |
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Krock joined #minetest-hub |
| 18:40 |
Sokomine |
ThomasMonroe: i asked for he enable_build_where_you_stand option to be added to the game back when it was changed so that you couldn't build there anymore. in tight corners, where orientation of a node is relevant, it is often impossible to build without |
| 18:43 |
Sokomine |
Calinou: are there upgrades for kids? :) |
| 18:43 |
Calinou |
yes, but they make your kid even less stable |
| 18:43 |
Calinou |
so you usually rollback to the stable version of the kid :( |
| 18:43 |
Sokomine |
:-) |
| 18:43 |
Sokomine |
guess they automaticly self-upgrade :) |
| 18:44 |
Sokomine |
maybe upgrades for politicians might be a good idea |
| 18:45 |
Mr-Pardison |
oh most of them are seagull managers anyway. |
| 18:45 |
Sokomine |
er...if any texture creater is reading this: i'm looking for a texture for a machine that "coats" nodes (mostly applys color). i have an idea for that but even a pretty simple texture is difficult for me. maybe low-ress, simple and slightly animated |
| 18:48 |
ThomasMonroe |
ah ok Sokomine |
| 18:57 |
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Jordach joined #minetest-hub |
| 19:00 |
benrob0329 |
Sokomine: colormachine 2.0? |
| 19:05 |
|
ssieb joined #minetest-hub |
| 19:14 |
Sokomine |
benrob0329: something more restricted. simple_houses is spawning colored houses (those blocks are so cheap to do!) |
| 19:15 |
Sokomine |
i think it'd be unfair not to give players a way to obtain more nodes of the same color |
| 19:15 |
Sokomine |
thus: machine that takes cobble, processes it, and creates out of 10 cobble 1 stony node that's "coated" in the right color and texture |
| 19:16 |
Sokomine |
problem is: people have to be able to identify the machine somehow. can't take the chests or furniture texture for all nodes i create |
| 19:37 |
Raven262 |
Sokomine, what is this machine made of? and do you accept nodeboxes? |
| 19:41 |
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nerzhul joined #minetest-hub |
| 19:41 |
red-001 |
hi nerzhul |
| 19:42 |
nerzhul |
hi red-001 |
| 19:42 |
* red-001 |
once again fails to be faster then tenplus1 |
| 19:45 |
Megaf |
He is not ever here |
| 19:48 |
IhrFussel |
Megaf, the player is back and still has the exact same problem |
| 19:50 |
Megaf |
lol |
| 19:50 |
Megaf |
does he speaks? |
| 19:52 |
IhrFussel |
No, still only floats in one direction |
| 19:53 |
Sokomine |
Raven262: i usually love nodeboxes. in this special case i think it might be more helpful to have a full node. can't think of any good way a machine might look like |
| 19:55 |
Raven262 |
Well, I'm currently making a nodebox machine. |
| 19:55 |
Raven262 |
Currently doing textures, I'll send you a screenshot when I finish it. |
| 19:56 |
Raven262 |
Even if you decide that it doesn't look like what you need, I can always use it for some project of mine :D |
| 20:05 |
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lisac joined #minetest-hub |
| 20:07 |
Jordach |
Krock: it's the whole reason why i prefer 4chan |
| 20:08 |
Jordach |
someone spoke out against the circlejerk? bans and mass downvotes |
| 20:08 |
Jordach |
meanwhile on 4chan, you get called a fag |
| 20:10 |
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xerox123- joined #minetest-hub |
| 20:12 |
red-001 |
2048chan all the way |
| 20:12 |
rubenwardy |
4chan sucks |
| 20:12 |
Jordach |
rubenwardy: still better than reddit |
| 20:12 |
red-001 |
or maybe 4096chan |
| 20:12 |
rubenwardy |
4chan is basically entirely r/incels |
| 20:12 |
Jordach |
lmao |
| 20:12 |
Jordach |
that's what the defaults have fed you |
| 20:12 |
Jordach |
OMEGALUL |
| 20:13 |
Jordach |
incels was teen angst that could never get a gf ever |
| 20:13 |
Jordach |
it's literally reddit meet early 2000s livejournal |
| 20:13 |
red-001 |
> implying 4chan isn't |
| 20:14 |
Jordach |
4chan is just un moderated shitposts |
| 20:14 |
rubenwardy |
incels was sad rapey men |
| 20:14 |
Jordach |
i shitpost on /o/ with my twingo |
| 20:15 |
sfan5 |
rubenwardy has only visited /pol/ apparently |
| 20:16 |
Jordach |
the internet was never for normies :^) |
| 20:17 |
red-001 |
ohh no-one has registered 2048chan.org |
| 20:19 |
Jordach |
*insert jojo OH NO* |
| 20:20 |
red-001 |
and so is 512chan.org |
| 20:20 |
red-001 |
or 256 |
| 20:32 |
Sokomine |
Raven262: nice machines are always welcomed :-) |
| 20:44 |
Raven262 |
Sokomine, https://i.imgur.com/5Pwppyr.png |
| 20:45 |
Krock |
that's a "thing" |
| 20:45 |
Raven262 |
Fixing some texture errors now. |
| 20:53 |
Raven262 |
Fixed the textures https://i.imgur.com/UMzFy2r.png |
| 20:55 |
rubenwardy |
nice |
| 21:04 |
Sokomine |
does indeed look very nice :-) |
| 21:04 |
* Sokomine |
grabs Raven262s machine and runs away with it quickly |
| 21:05 |
Sokomine |
can you perhaps add more colors to the texture? or is it possible to apply colorization to models as well? |
| 21:05 |
Raven262 |
https://github.com/theraven262/modding-stuff/tree/master/machine_1 |
| 21:05 |
Raven262 |
there |
| 21:05 |
Sokomine |
thank you :-) |
| 21:06 |
Raven262 |
np |
| 21:16 |
Sokomine |
hmm. if i put it into a lone mod (the machine might be nice regardless of any houses) - how would english-speaking people call it? maybe plaster... |
| 21:20 |
Sokomine |
plasterwork seems to fit |
| 21:20 |
benrob0329 |
Sokomine: for what? |
| 21:20 |
benrob0329 |
Your coloring machine? |
| 21:21 |
Sokomine |
for what the machine is supposed to do :-) real plaster would probably be applied by hand or sprayed...we'll get the machine for that |
| 21:21 |
benrob0329 |
Plaster, or paint? |
| 21:21 |
Sokomine |
no, not my color machine. the new machine you did. it will not be as versatile as the color machine. it'll be one for nodes with up to 256 colors |
| 21:21 |
benrob0329 |
Plaster isn't sprayed.. |
| 21:22 |
Sokomine |
not really, no. but if all you've got is some stones and cobble there's got to be some flexibility. crafting just won't do :-) the machine will transform the node into one with plaster ready-made applied. no fussy placing blocks first, then applying plaster |
| 21:23 |
benrob0329 |
Like, drywall mud? |
| 21:24 |
Sokomine |
kind of |
| 21:24 |
Megaf |
20:53:09 <Raven262> Fixed the textures https://i.imgur.com/UMzFy2r.png |
| 21:24 |
Megaf |
What is that? |
| 21:24 |
Megaf |
It looks like a mouse trap |
| 21:25 |
Sokomine |
the idea is to fill the machine with cobble, let it extract some nice minerals, and then let it create a coat (plaster-like) on one of the remaining cobble blocks |
| 21:25 |
benrob0329 |
Sokomine: what I'm gathering is that your making a machine that skim-coats blocks |
| 21:25 |
benrob0329 |
So, you'd end up with a grey block? |
| 21:26 |
Sokomine |
(all this is just an excuse in the end to turn a material that is actually available to the player in sufficient quantities into something that can be used to extend and repair some spawned buildings) |
| 21:27 |
Sokomine |
benrob0329: in a way. disassemble enough cobble blocks (=cheap material that needs to be removed from the world anyway), scratch a bit off of the target block, apply the newly created coat to the target block |
| 21:29 |
Sokomine |
most of that really is just a way to make useful building materials available. clay and coral are great textures and work fine with colors applied; but there isn't enough of that material in the world to actually do something significant with it |
| 21:30 |
Sokomine |
and to justify technicly in a hopefully sufficiently convincing way how it was done |
| 21:32 |
benrob0329 |
Space magic |
| 21:32 |
Sokomine |
can't spawn houses and then let the players be without materials to turn automatic structures into something individual and nice-looking |
| 21:32 |
Sokomine |
yes. bet on some mese beeing required to craft the thing |
| 21:33 |
benrob0329 |
Someone should make a star wars parity in MT |
| 21:33 |
benrob0329 |
Where the standard good guy color is yellow |
| 21:38 |
Jordach |
feelsbadman |
| 21:38 |
Jordach |
you'd expect override_item to work on the fcly |
| 21:38 |
Jordach |
fly* |
| 21:51 |
Fixer |
that lmr page is annoying, while I had almost 1000px of height, it managed to only 5 lines of useful information |
| 21:53 |
Fixer |
btw, reading deepfakes, it is interesting |
| 21:53 |
Fixer |
so it is possible to pretty much fake everything |
| 21:54 |
Fixer |
https://gfycat.com/IllinformedBriefBluemorphobutterfly |
| 21:54 |
Fixer |
not really very close but still funny |
| 21:55 |
Shara |
Note regarding what IhrFussel brought up earlier... the odd player he reported... |
| 21:55 |
Shara |
Found same player in my logs, same IP address... at the time I had problems |
| 21:55 |
Shara |
from player file: position = (30039,-274,-40276) |
| 21:55 |
red-001 |
huh |
| 21:55 |
Shara |
Player didn't even have interact. |
| 21:56 |
Shara |
Now you tell me there's no exploit here |
| 21:56 |
Shara |
Also: IP address is a VPS |
| 21:56 |
Fixer |
known exploit *cough* |
| 21:56 |
red-001 |
Fixer, ? |
| 21:56 |
Shara |
Fixer: Care to explain? |
| 21:56 |
Shara |
A two+ years old server that was very popular has been trashed by this |
| 21:56 |
Fixer |
there is no known exploits, but there are possible unknown ones / Captain Obvious to the rescue |
| 21:57 |
IhrFussel |
The player somehow was able to use fly, noclip and auto respawn ... the movement was definitely not by a human (1 step at a time at a fixed interval) |
| 21:57 |
red-001 |
fly + noclip is easy |
| 21:57 |
Shara |
Fixer: Glad you find years of my work getting ruined amusing, but if you can't be constructive on this, please don't say anything |
| 21:57 |
red-001 |
Shara, do you have anticheat enabled? |
| 21:58 |
Shara |
No. Too many problems with it, and it does nothing to stop fly/noclip anyway |
| 21:58 |
IhrFussel |
red-001, I have it enabled and it didn't help...just flooded the log with "moved too fast" messages |
| 21:58 |
Fixer |
Shara: post this info in anticheat issue on github |
| 21:58 |
red-001 |
well there you got the issue |
| 21:58 |
Shara |
red-001: Sorry, not buying that. |
| 21:58 |
red-001 |
no anticheat == no movement checking |
| 21:58 |
red-001 |
you can just move infinatly fast |
| 21:58 |
Shara |
I have my own checks running to prevent players out of certain boundaries |
| 21:58 |
Fixer |
i pretty much expect minetest to have unknown exploited vulnerabilities |
| 21:59 |
Shara |
It's CREATIVE, fast is default |
| 21:59 |
Fixer |
anticheat must be enabled |
| 21:59 |
Fixer |
even if fast |
| 21:59 |
red-001 |
afaik minetest does no speed tests if anticheat is off |
| 21:59 |
Shara |
Then anticheat needs to be fixed |
| 21:59 |
red-001 |
so they can move at 3 million blocks a second if they want to |
| 21:59 |
IhrFussel |
Well it might've helped on my server but the player "sallee" is very suspicious since he used the same IP on Shara's and my server and the IP is a VPS |
| 22:00 |
red-001 |
Shara, whats the issue with the player anyways? |
| 22:00 |
red-001 |
apart from them liking places that are out of map bounds |
| 22:00 |
Shara |
SImply that they seem very likely to have been the one to cause the damage |
| 22:00 |
red-001 |
IhrFussel, ty |
| 22:01 |
red-001 |
Shara, what damage? |
| 22:01 |
IhrFussel |
Like I said that movement is not humanlike...do you agree? |
| 22:01 |
Shara |
You think mapgrpwth of +50% previous size in no time at all is normal? |
| 22:01 |
Shara |
map expanded until server ran out of space |
| 22:02 |
red-001 |
Shara, I guess trying to reason with them didn't help did it? |
| 22:02 |
Fixer |
jeez, what was the map size? |
| 22:02 |
Jordach |
why'd you think i run 0.5-dev |
| 22:02 |
Shara |
They never spoke |
| 22:02 |
Shara |
I don't know who it is |
| 22:02 |
red-001 |
and they just get new ips after you ban them? |
| 22:02 |
Fixer |
maybe a bot that maps/worldsaves the server or just intentionally filling disk space |
| 22:02 |
Shara |
Uhmm.. I've not mentioned banning them |
| 22:02 |
red-001 |
that would seem like a logical step |
| 22:03 |
Shara |
I didn't know who was to blame until Fussel provided something to check and compare against |
| 22:03 |
IhrFussel |
We didn't ban him since we didn't even know until today that he acts that weirdly |
| 22:03 |
Jordach |
jordach Carbon:~/minetest-master/bin$ du -sh \n 145M |
| 22:03 |
red-001 |
bot is damging your servers operation so it seems reasonable to ban them with a message to the operator |
| 22:03 |
Shara |
And since it killed my map, I don't currently have a server to ban them from |
| 22:03 |
sfan5 |
Shara: I assume the problems you had with anticheat are the usual "player moved too fast; resetting" complaints, correct? |
| 22:03 |
Shara |
Plus, you know, VPS... it isn't their actual IP address |
| 22:03 |
Jordach |
inb4 minetest goes centralised |
| 22:03 |
Shara |
sfan5: Yes, especially when player is attached to anything |
| 22:03 |
Jordach |
with ban auth through SRP |
| 22:04 |
Fixer |
Jordach: what's inb4? |
| 22:04 |
red-001 |
IhrFussel, for that player I assume? |
| 22:04 |
red-001 |
Fixer, in before ban |
| 22:04 |
sfan5 |
Shara: is there an issue open for that? |
| 22:04 |
Shara |
I already have a plan to prevent this happening again, when/if I can fix the map |
| 22:04 |
red-001 |
4chan meme or something |
| 22:04 |
Shara |
sfan5: I believe one was opened not so long ago |
| 22:04 |
IhrFussel |
By the way the speed in the video I linked is SLOW compared to later...I watched him a bit more and at some point the player suddenly sped up to almost walking speed (~3 nodes per sec) |
| 22:04 |
Fixer |
can you tell that players name? |
| 22:05 |
red-001 |
honestly apart from anticheat being a mess there is nothing wrong here |
| 22:05 |
red-001 |
maybe we can add levels to anticheat or something |
| 22:05 |
Shara |
Fixer: Fussel already did |
| 22:05 |
Shara |
It needs levels. Or something. |
| 22:05 |
IhrFussel |
Fixer, sallee |
| 22:05 |
Shara |
I want to use it, but everytime I turned it on I had problems. |
| 22:05 |
red-001 |
detect the biggest cheaters and ignore smaller issues |
| 22:05 |
Fixer |
never heard about it |
| 22:06 |
red-001 |
IhrFussel, Shara no idea what version string thier client is claiming to be? |
| 22:06 |
Shara |
sfan5: #6852 |
| 22:06 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6852 -- More granular anticheat |
| 22:06 |
IhrFussel |
And I want to add that the player first joined my server Jan 21 ... he joined well over 10 times in the recent days and *all* he did was sending /spawn ... no other commands/messages in the chat |
| 22:06 |
IhrFussel |
Very very suspicious |
| 22:06 |
Shara |
red-001: os there anything that would catch that by routine? |
| 22:06 |
Shara |
Is* |
| 22:07 |
red-001 |
iirc minetest includes some build info in that |
| 22:07 |
sfan5 |
Shara: i was hoping more that there's an issue open for the issues when players are attached |
| 22:07 |
red-001 |
could be remebering wrong |
| 22:07 |
Sokomine |
red-001: sounds like it's a bot. not much point trying to talk to one i'm afraid |
| 22:07 |
IhrFussel |
I log the protocol version from joins one sec |
| 22:07 |
IhrFussel |
32 |
| 22:08 |
red-001 |
Sokomine, operator might log kick messages, it's a stretch but why not try |
| 22:08 |
Shara |
Red.. "that" being what? |
| 22:08 |
Fixer |
IhrFussel: well, it is open source, you can be creative and write a bot to annoy server owners, or imitate a player etc |
| 22:09 |
Shara |
sfan5: I'd open one, but don't really hav ea good way to test performance in current dev in case of any change |
| 22:09 |
red-001 |
oh nvm we still not let mods get vers_string |
| 22:09 |
Sokomine |
anticheat isn't good. it harms human players. it is very irritating if your position gets constantly reset because server and client have minimally diffrent opinions about where you ought to be. that causes sickness in the player |
| 22:10 |
IhrFussel |
Slowly but surely I really get the feeling that we certainly have some malicious bots on our servers on a reular basis ... some things certain players type look like program code and sometimes I have FIVE players who join at once |
| 22:10 |
sfan5 |
that's mostly because the speed cheating code seems to be very strict |
| 22:10 |
red-001 |
because those someone might use it to stop those poor poor android users |
| 22:10 |
Shara |
But on my survival server it's especially noticeable. Any attempt to ride a flying creature and you get constant little pauses and jerks in motion |
| 22:11 |
red-001 |
Shara, nvm looks like saving mod authors from every possible mistake they could make means that you can't get the version string |
| 22:12 |
Shara |
red-001: somehow not surprised |
| 22:12 |
IhrFussel |
red-001, The protocol version by sallee is 32 so 0.4.16 |
| 22:12 |
Sokomine |
maybe checks ought to happen less frequently and position violations only getting logged if it's too far off. the current way isn't really usable |
| 22:12 |
red-001 |
without recompiling but thats just a waste of time |
| 22:12 |
Shara |
On one level, as long as I can fix this, I don't care that it happened, since the server will actually end up much more mangeable and secure (if the changes I'm working on actually work) |
| 22:13 |
Shara |
But there are plenty of servers that probably couldn't recover from this |
| 22:13 |
Shara |
Or the owners/team might simply not have the time to spare on it |
| 22:13 |
red-001 |
IhrFussel, I was looking for the version string which is what is suffixed to the name (version number + git hash) |
| 22:13 |
Fixer |
IhrFussel: https://i.imgur.com/vfgm065.png |
| 22:14 |
Shara |
So instead of trying to push the blame on me, I'd just ask that, if anticheat would really solve it, maybe anticheat can be relaxed to the point where it's usable. |
| 22:14 |
Shara |
So maybe there's less chance of some other big map getting messed up this badly |
| 22:14 |
Fixer |
anticheat should be enabled |
| 22:14 |
red-001 |
IhrFussel, do they auto rejoin if you kick them? |
| 22:15 |
Fixer |
and if smth is wrong with it - fix it (somehow) |
| 22:15 |
IhrFussel |
Fixer, that exact same user was on my server...not sure if they also typed such weird texts though |
| 22:15 |
Shara |
Fixer: stop pushing it onto server owners. |
| 22:15 |
IhrFussel |
Nope, I kicked him the first time this afternoon with reason "Are you a bot?" and he joined a few hours later again doing the EXACT same thing |
| 22:15 |
Shara |
I'm all for anticheat being fixed, but you can't expect the server owners to do that |
| 22:15 |
red-001 |
that somehow doesn't look like true random text but keyboard mashing |
| 22:15 |
Fixer |
IhrFussel: notice "vCard x Hurd ::))" part, this feels like those neural network talking bots |
| 22:15 |
Fixer |
red-001: read ending |
| 22:16 |
red-001 |
it's like a bot learning human langauge from 4chan or youtube comments |
| 22:16 |
Fixer |
yeah |
| 22:16 |
sfan5 |
must be a shitty bot if that's all it learned |
| 22:17 |
Fixer |
yeah |
| 22:17 |
IhrFussel |
Can we be 100% sure that such behavior cannot be caused by malicious CSMs? |
| 22:17 |
Fixer |
i had fun with those bots, they were hillariously good |
| 22:17 |
red-001 |
can't say if it's beautiful or terrifying |
| 22:17 |
red-001 |
IhrFussel, yes |
| 22:17 |
red-001 |
I mean chatbots no, but map logs/explorers/something yes |
| 22:18 |
IhrFussel |
Well...since sallee uses a VPS to connect to servers they must have at least *some* tech knowledge |
| 22:18 |
Shara |
This isn't CSM |
| 22:18 |
red-001 |
is it a vps or a vpn? |
| 22:19 |
sfan5 |
regardless of that your assumption is incorrect |
| 22:19 |
Jordach |
Shara: alternative, log user positions |
| 22:19 |
Jordach |
once per 30 seconds |
| 22:19 |
Jordach |
you can then compare it |
| 22:19 |
Fixer |
just finish this https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/6219 "WIP: Server side movement #6219" |
| 22:19 |
IhrFussel |
Would be fairly easy with vector.distance() |
| 22:19 |
Shara |
red-001: seems to be VPS... Same hoster I use |
| 22:19 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6219 -- WIP: Server side movement by bendeutsch |
| 22:20 |
Jordach |
get the differences of all co-ords, and then see if the second positon is exact between the first pos and third pos |
| 22:20 |
Shara |
Jordach: I plan other things to prevent this in the future |
| 22:21 |
red-001 |
send them random map data |
| 22:21 |
Jordach |
Shara: this can be done automatically |
| 22:21 |
Shara |
I'm just going to disable creation of any new mapblocks |
| 22:22 |
sfan5 |
Shara: attached players are not actually checked for movement cheats |
| 22:22 |
Fixer |
Shara: you can limit mapgen, if you are saving space |
| 22:22 |
Shara |
Any place that ever should be generated almost certainly is by now |
| 22:22 |
sfan5 |
so disable_anticheat = true fixing that issue is not possible |
| 22:22 |
Shara |
Hmm |
| 22:22 |
IhrFussel |
Guys the pos in the player file needs to be divided by 16 to get the actual last known coordinates correct? |
| 22:22 |
sfan5 |
by 10, not 16 |
| 22:22 |
Shara |
sfan5: yet I've tested multiple times. Issue is there with anticheat on, gone with anticheat off |
| 22:22 |
sfan5 |
Shara: and it says exactly "... moved too fast; resetting position" ? |
| 22:23 |
Shara |
Doesn't say anything. |
| 22:23 |
sfan5 |
then it not this part of anticheat |
| 22:23 |
sfan5 |
generally anticheat says when something is wrong |
| 22:23 |
Shara |
Could it simply be the extra underlying checks themselves doing too much then? |
| 22:23 |
sfan5 |
possible |
| 22:24 |
sfan5 |
though these checks don't run when the player is attached... |
| 22:24 |
sfan5 |
hm |
| 22:24 |
Shara |
I'm sure I duplicated on singleplayer too though... which makes "server is not powerful enough" unlikely. |
| 22:24 |
Shara |
But I'd need to verify that again to be sure |
| 22:24 |
Shara |
Even if it's not directly the fault of anticheat, it does seem to correlate perfectly with it |
| 22:25 |
Jordach |
my jetpack has 0 issues when flying at beyond 2 mapblock/sec |
| 22:25 |
Jordach |
provided it doesn't collide with ignore |
| 22:26 |
IhrFussel |
sfan5, ok thanks... the last know pos of sallee is pretty far away from the spawn...so his movement must've increased by quite a lot when I was busy |
| 22:27 |
Shara |
Your jetpack is unnaturally responsive. No mobs I know of give that performance |
| 22:27 |
Jordach |
Shara: my server runs with server_step 0.02 |
| 22:27 |
Jordach |
it's a fucking 60hz server |
| 22:28 |
Jordach |
with no additional load |
| 22:28 |
Jordach |
by default, MT is afaik 10hz |
| 22:28 |
Shara |
Hmm, could explain it |
| 22:28 |
Jordach |
yes, i have to do more acceleration controls |
| 22:29 |
IhrFussel |
Default server_step is 0.09 |
| 22:30 |
Jordach |
IhrFussel: basically 10hz assuming 1000ms steps |
| 22:30 |
Jordach |
or 100ms * |
| 22:30 |
IhrFussel |
But on a server with many mods that server_step will likely not keep up |
| 22:30 |
Jordach |
IhrFussel: i use 0.02 since the Atom in this dedi can handle it |
| 22:30 |
Shara |
But a subgame well and it does not need many more mods |
| 22:30 |
Shara |
but build* |
| 22:31 |
IhrFussel |
This Xeon machine stays mostly at 0.3 max_lag with 175 mods |
| 22:31 |
IhrFussel |
About 10 pretty heavy |
| 22:32 |
Fixer |
this is perfect, how much players? |
| 22:34 |
IhrFussel |
The player count doesn't really affect it much... it's 0.3 with 10 players and with 20 ... I had 33 recently and the max_lag spiked to 0.5 |
| 22:35 |
Fixer |
IhrFussel: it is very good max_lag, congratulations |
| 22:35 |
red-001 |
and somehow carts still don't work right |
| 22:35 |
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| 22:35 |
IhrFussel |
Well it's a VPS with dedicated CPU and most of the time the performance is awesome for $15/month |
| 22:36 |
Fixer |
red-001: you have not seen those original carts from mushroomAdam, today's carts are silky smooooooooth compared to them |
| 22:36 |
Fixer |
also, minecraft beta and up to 1.8 or so had laggy as hell boats/carts too |
| 22:37 |
red-001 |
Fixer, I almost vomit everytime I try to use them |
| 22:37 |
red-001 |
get stuck ~30% of the time |
| 22:37 |
IhrFussel |
red-001, stuck in an endless loop? That's what I always get when I use default carts |
| 22:37 |
red-001 |
and then just keep teleporting back and forward |
| 22:37 |
red-001 |
IhrFussel, yep |
| 22:38 |
IhrFussel |
Anyways need to sleep now... see you later =) |
| 22:38 |
red-001 |
cya |
| 22:39 |
Fixer |
red-001: post a bug about that, they were working fine for me |
| 22:41 |
sfan5 |
anticheat does not take care of all possible physics modifiers |
| 22:41 |
Fixer |
red-001: Krock will probably look into it, just post a bug |
| 22:41 |
sfan5 |
indeed, this can be fixed |
| 22:45 |
Shara |
sfan5: any improvement at all would be appreciated when it comes to anticheat |
| 23:07 |
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| 23:27 |
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