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IRC log for #minetest-hub, 2017-12-22

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:03 paramat joined #minetest-hub
00:10 rubenwardy wat
00:11 IhrFussel Nah, many server owners decide mid-way to switch to another mapgen, it should stay as an option in conf
00:11 benrob0329 IhrFussel: you'd need to change it in the world as well afaik
00:12 benrob0329 rubenwardy: per-world settings in minetest.conf is a nono in my mind
00:12 rubenwardy ?
00:13 rubenwardy also, the what was to Shara being K-lined
00:13 rubenwardy -> network banned
00:13 benrob0329 mg_name, game, etc
00:13 benrob0329 Shara was k-lined??
00:13 rubenwardy both of those are world settings
00:13 rubenwardy in world.mt
00:13 rubenwardy the settings just change the default value (which is meh)
00:13 IhrFussel Not sure, I switched quite a while ago :P rubenwardy I am assuming false positive? Or did she have ab argument with the staff? Can't think of any other reason
00:14 Shara joined #minetest-hub
00:14 benrob0329 rubenwardy: yes, but you have to set them in Mt.conf because there is no way to set up a word from terminal
00:14 benrob0329 *world
00:15 benrob0329 Or change after the fact
00:15 IhrFussel WB Shara ... what happened?
00:16 Shara Wish I knew
00:16 IhrFussel Okay so false positive likely
00:20 Megaf Shara: you can join #Freenode and ask there
00:20 Megaf unless you indeed did nasty stuff
00:20 Shara Well, I hope I didn't
00:22 rubenwardy I asked in #freenode and got the ban lifted
00:23 Megaf cool
00:23 Megaf well, bed time, night folks
00:25 Shara Sleep well tiger
00:25 Shara And thanks ruben :)
00:50 garywhite what happened?
00:52 sofar * Shara has quit (K-Lined)
00:52 garywhite that's weird...
00:54 Shara No explanation forthcoming either apparently
00:55 Shara So cant satisfy the curiousity of those who have asked
00:55 sofar did you ask?
00:55 Shara Unless freenode took exception to me kicking a player from my server a few minutes before, so idea what happened. :)
00:55 Shara no*
00:56 Shara I don't really car3e to ask in a public channel with hundreds of people present, so will wait until someone I can speak to is around
00:56 Shara care*
00:56 sofar sure
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02:28 EvergreenTree joined #minetest-hub
03:00 benrob0329 I'm trying to run two servers (different ports) at the same time, but the second one won't load any mods
03:01 benrob0329 Nvm
03:15 paramat joined #minetest-hub
03:38 CBugDCoder joined #minetest-hub
04:09 garywhite OldCoder is at it again
04:19 Wayward_One the forum needs immediate attention, mass spam from OC
04:21 benrob0329 sfan5 sofar kaeza ^^
04:24 benrob0329 Also what the f*
04:39 VanessaE killed.
04:47 benrob0329 VanessaE: thanks
04:48 VanessaE yw
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09:38 tenplus1 joined #minetest-hub
09:38 tenplus1 hi folks
09:41 celeron55 joined #minetest-hub
09:41 tenplus1 wb celeron
10:28 Raven262 joined #minetest-hub
10:32 nerzhul joined #minetest-hub
11:16 Jordach joined #minetest-hub
11:26 Fixer joined #minetest-hub
11:28 Grandolf joined #minetest-hub
11:30 Megaf Greetings
11:35 Raven262 Hi Megaf
11:37 tenplus1 joined #minetest-hub
11:37 tenplus1 allo
11:41 EvergreenTree joined #minetest-hub
11:41 tenplus1 hi evergreen
11:45 Raven262 Hi ten
11:45 tenplus1 hi Raven262
11:49 shivajiva Hi folks )
11:49 tenplus1 hi shiva
11:49 shivajiva looking forward to christmas ten?
11:50 tenplus1 will be workign on xmas day
11:51 shivajiva Santa has already dropped a G4560 MB bundle on me
11:51 shivajiva eww
11:51 tenplus1 whassat ? gfx card ?
11:52 shivajiva Intel G4560 CPU, 8MB Corsair extreme fitted to a gigabyte mb
11:52 tenplus1 ooh nice :) bet it flies like the wind :D  what Os ?
11:53 shivajiva my LGA775 mb died and they are rarer than hens teeth so I bumped up and got 164% increase on my Q6600 system
11:53 shivajiva it does seem pretty fast
11:54 tenplus1 kewl...
11:54 shivajiva 51W compared to the 95W of the q6600
11:54 tenplus1 it's always fun building a new system
11:55 tenplus1 low power as well :) I like it...   every new desktop I get ends up being lower in wattage as well... 65watts for intel aton just now
11:55 shivajiva struggling with the watercooler bracket, doesn't like the 1151 hole centres
11:55 shivajiva marginally different than the 775
11:56 tenplus1 erk, last thing you need is a dodgy connection when water is concerned
11:56 shivajiva oh it's inert, if it was to leak it wouldn't conduct
11:57 shivajiva the stock cooler is pretty crap
11:59 tenplus1 yeah they usually are...  been looking for a decent fanless cooler for pentium j9400
11:59 tenplus1 *2900
11:59 shivajiva things I noted about using a 7th gen cpu, it won't update win 7, refuses and asks you to upgrade to win 10!!!!
12:00 tenplus1 damn, that's no good... w10 sucks
12:00 shivajiva good old intel microsoft partnership at work
12:00 shivajiva so be aware of the flaw in upgrading to any 7th gen cpu
12:01 tenplus1 does that mean you cannot properly use w7
12:02 shivajiva you lose monthly rollups and security fixes to dot net effectively at this point in it's lifespan
12:03 tenplus1 pfft, dot net is useless in most cases and fills up the hard drive with even more useless updates
12:04 shivajiva they are only providing sticking plasters for win 7 anyway at this point in it's EOL
12:04 tenplus1 yeah... hopefully w11 will bring out an all new core that's better maintained
12:04 Sokomine shivajiva: why do you blame the cpu if the os does not like it for no good reason other than wanting to force an upgrade?
12:04 tenplus1 hi Sokomine
12:04 Sokomine hi ten
12:05 shivajiva lol we can dream, I wasn't blaming the cpu I was blaming the partnership with MS
12:05 Sokomine tenplus1: 65 watt for intel atom? that sounds like quite a lot. or do you count the monitor as well?
12:05 * tenplus1 would rather use ReactOS or Linux with wine/vbox before using w10
12:05 * Sokomine nods to ten
12:06 shivajiva same, my daily driver is nix
12:06 tenplus1 my Acer Aspire Revo is many years old already, has 1.8ghz dual core atom with nvidia ion v.2 gfx but only uses 65watts full load
12:07 Sokomine ok, full load is diffrent
12:07 tenplus1 my pentium j2900 is quad core pentium and 65watts...  am happy the power is staying same but getting more bang for your watt
12:09 shivajiva another interesting thing about the bundle is the use of a conductive pad on the cpu-cooler interface, they are crap. Removal and use of heatsink paste resulted in a drop of 3 degrees
12:10 tenplus1 yeah they did a full test on linus tech tips doing the same...  managed to get a pre-built system heat down by a good amount of heat by re-applying decent compound
12:10 tenplus1 seems what they supply by default isnt all taht great
12:12 shivajiva the whole idea behind the paste is to remove air from the interface as air can be heated to extreme temps so it only has to fill the granularity of the surface to be effective, most people apply too much.
12:13 tenplus1 the explaining computers channel is pretty good, he overclocks a raspberry pi 3 and uses compounds and heatsinks etc with great results :D
12:13 shivajiva :)
12:14 * tenplus1 has no tv, youtube is life :D ahahahah
12:15 shivajiva give me a book any day :P
12:15 Megaf Welcome back tenplus1
12:15 tenplus1 ooh, look like america's net neutrality may be re-introduced
12:15 tenplus1 hi Megaf
12:15 tenplus1 +1 shiva, books are great...
12:16 tenplus1 almost pee'd myself laughing when reading Terry Pratchets Discworld series
12:17 shivajiva clever man with an interesting twist on life
12:18 rubenwardy Wonder what happens if I send a sticker from the Google keyboard
12:18 shivajiva we all see a box
12:18 rubenwardy Aw, just an error toast
12:19 tenplus1 hi ruben
12:19 rubenwardy Toast being the way android shows system messages
12:19 rubenwardy A rounded popup with text that disappears after a few seconds
12:19 rubenwardy Hey
12:19 tenplus1 I feel that all Os' shoudl have a default character set (like minetest texrtures) and any font we use that doesn't have the character we want should use the default one instead to fill the gaps
12:20 rubenwardy That is actually done, iurc
12:20 rubenwardy *iirc
12:20 shivajiva Douglas Adams is up there with Pratchet imo, very similar dry perspective
12:21 rubenwardy The problem is when the default font doesn't have the character
12:21 tenplus1 oh yeah, hitchikers guide (all 5 books) and the new Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency were great
12:21 tenplus1 in this day and age all Os' should have a base font with emoji and unicode support
12:24 tenplus1 we all need a standard
12:28 rubenwardy Problem is characters keep being introduced
12:28 rubenwardy And some Linux derivatives are painfully slow to update
12:28 tenplus1 and if done properly the base font can quite easily be updated with those characters weekly
12:28 rubenwardy (eg: Ubuntu)
12:29 tenplus1 they found a kernel driver issue on lenovo laptops and that was patched and updated and rolled out within 2 days :D
12:29 tenplus1 depends on the urgency
12:29 rubenwardy That's a security fiz
12:29 rubenwardy This would be a new feature
12:30 tenplus1 true
12:32 tenplus1 can anyone remember the old Amiga datatype system ?
12:49 EvergreenTree joined #minetest-hub
12:49 tenplus1 wb
13:01 ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-hub
13:01 tenplus1 hi thomas
13:01 ThomasMonroe hi tenplus1
13:08 Aerozoic joined #minetest-hub
13:08 tenplus1 o/ Aerozoic
13:09 Aerozoic hey tenplus1
13:16 CBugDCoder joined #minetest-hub
13:16 tenplus1 hi Cbug
13:16 CBugDCoder hi ten
13:19 CBugDCoder I had an idea ik that it isnt possible to scale text on the hud and formspecs yet :| but i think it would be nice the create an API that adds text messages to the hud on many different scales using images
13:19 tenplus1 +100
13:20 tenplus1 that way we could have game titles and such flash up for a few seconds
13:21 Krock joined #minetest-hub
13:21 tenplus1 hi Krock
13:21 CBugDCoder yep that was why i thought about it :)
13:21 Krock hi tenplus1
13:21 CBugDCoder hi Krock
13:21 Krock didn't see that coming
13:21 Krock hi CBugDCoder
13:21 red-001 huh I didn't even know names on the forum could have spaces https://forum.minetest.net/memberli​st.php?mode=viewprofile&u=22396
13:22 tenplus1 hir ed
13:22 tenplus1 *hi red
13:23 red-001 I just kinda assume that usernames can't have spaces
13:23 Krock that person needs help
13:24 tenplus1 lol
13:25 red-001 https://i.imgur.com/6LKCZBY.png also looks like someone is using the userlist to try and boost their search rankings
13:25 CBugDCoder yep with his essay XD
13:25 tenplus1 hrmm
13:29 red-001 maybe we should mark outgoing links with nofollow
13:29 tenplus1 names like those make me suspiscious of the user
13:29 Megaf 10:32 <tenplus1> can anyone remember the old Amiga datatype system ?
13:30 Megaf really?
13:30 Megaf :P
13:30 Megaf Shara: tenplus1: 30C here, I'm melting
13:30 Megaf Miss Dublin already
13:30 tenplus1 lucky :P it's 4c here
13:30 Megaf eh, no, not really
13:31 tenplus1 ehehe I suppose if you're cold you can always wrap up, but cooling down can be more of a pain
13:31 Megaf todays high should be 32C
13:31 tenplus1 as for the datatypes, that's another story...
13:32 Megaf Why do you need that?
13:32 tenplus1 kinda trailed off from the font default and standards for Os'...  at one point the datatypes was a good standard where 1 single library could examine any file, tell you what it was and show/read/hear/play it etc
13:33 Megaf tenplus1: ah, if you have some tiny bit of free time. I'm adopting/forking minetest-nether mod from HybridDog. I will write a todo list. Basically it depends on a mod called vector_extras and I want to import all functions from vector extras and add to the code of minetest-nether. Already doing some of that with paramats help.
13:33 Megaf It's also a modpack, I want it to be a single mod, not a modpack. And the final objective is making it a standalone mod, without dependencies in other mods.
13:34 Megaf tenplus1: https://github.com/Megaf/nether-pack
13:35 tenplus1 ooh nice, hope it turns out well :)
13:35 Megaf I will also try to somehow get it in minetest-mods. Or at least push the changes to the current nether in minetest-mods
13:35 tenplus1 I liked the current nether styled mods
13:36 Megaf the thing I like the most in nether-pack/minetest-nether is the netherforest
13:38 tenplus1 having biomes underground is a great idea, am hoping the new changes by paramat allow that to happen in mapgen
13:39 CBugDCoder yes but the only priblem with that Ten is it still wont work with lua mapgen yet that is one thing that is still really needed for the biome api
13:40 CBugDCoder vm.generate_biomes(minp,maxp,replace_id)
13:41 CBugDCoder that is what i would think of as a function input for that
13:42 tenplus1 that woudl help, but having a proper mapgen working at certain levels and allowing biomes to be CUT into the stone would be a great feature
13:42 * tenplus1 tests nether changes
13:44 tenplus1 Megaf: I dare say that some of the vector functions are already in the newer minetest
13:45 * Megaf turns air conditioning on, can't take it anymore
13:45 tenplus1 heh
13:45 lisac joined #minetest-hub
13:45 tenplus1 hi lisac
13:46 Megaf Hm, I can drink some wine or some coffee now
13:46 lisac hey tenplus1
13:46 Megaf I think I'll have some coffee and then wine
13:46 tenplus1 priorities :P
13:46 Megaf :)
13:46 lisac is it Christmas for you yet?
13:46 Megaf When I drink wine I get so drunk I begin to code
13:47 tenplus1 few days to go lisac
13:47 lisac 7th jan?
13:47 Megaf 25 is Christmas
13:47 tenplus1 isnt that new years regred day ?
13:47 lisac I wouldn't know
13:47 lisac 7th for me
13:47 tenplus1 lol
13:48 Megaf lisac: where are you from?
13:48 lisac Serbia
13:48 Megaf I see
13:48 tenplus1 brb
13:48 lisac the not-so-cold or Russian one
13:48 Megaf so yeah, 25th is Christmas, that is in 3 days
13:48 Megaf some cultures celebrate it on the 24
13:48 Megaf today is 22
13:48 lisac yeah, I assumed because TF2 decided to give me my christmas gifts now
13:49 Megaf I got some Christmas emails already too
13:57 Fixer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLa_akdwDXY
13:58 Fixer 7 jan is pretty much nonsence because old wrong calendar, in 100 years it will be 8 jan, etc etc, while proper one will be at dec 25 permanently
14:00 Fixer unfortunately church still lives somewhere in 0AD
14:00 tenplus1 lol
14:04 Fixer unfortunately east european countries moved to new proper calendar only in beginning of XX century pretty much, and church still holds on to wrong one
14:05 Fixer "The Greek Orthodox Church of Jerusalem, Russian Orthodox Church, Serbian Orthodox Church, Georgian Orthodox and Apostolic Church, Polish Orthodox Church, Macedonian Orthodox Church and the Greek Old Calendarists did not accept the Revised Julian calendar, and continue to celebrate Christmas on 25 December in the Julian calendar, which is 7 January in the Gregorian calendar until 2100."
14:05 Fixer smile with hands
14:06 tenplus1 interesting
14:09 Fixer so christians celebrate one thing on different dates pretty much, religion is consistent and scientific as usual *cough*
14:14 * shivajiva is wondering if the shift is related to sidereal time
14:17 ThomasMonroe Fixer: you have to understand that what people call "Christians" nowadays are just about anyone who believes in the God of the Bible, not necessarily a single religion, more a mixing pot of differing opinions
14:18 Fixer it is still silly
14:19 shivajiva Hebrew year is 5778.
14:19 ThomasMonroe the Jubilee year
14:19 ThomasMonroe Fixer: I agree
14:26 benrob0329 Fixer: Dont take on religion and speak for all, you might make someone angry :^)
14:27 benrob0329 Atheism has become a religion too, don't forget
14:27 Jordach oh the irony
14:27 tenplus1 Teleport Potion updated to add progression to game, changes by maybe_dragon adopted to enchant location to potion/pad beforehand by visiting destination and only then placing pad/potion to go there :)
14:27 * tenplus1 looks at Shara
14:28 * Shara hides
14:28 tenplus1 lol
14:28 tenplus1 eyas
14:28 ThomasMonroe oh, Shara it seems that the image buttons don't work in the main menu
14:28 Fixer tenplus1: suggestion for mobs redo, don't print heal info above unless you attack that person yourself
14:28 Shara Sitting in an airport dealing with a seriously delayed flight here lol
14:28 ThomasMonroe lol
14:28 Shara ThomasMonroe: managed to confirm it?
14:29 tenplus1 erk, not the best time for flying I dare say
14:29 tenplus1 Fixer: you mean no mob HP to be shown unless it was hit 1st
14:29 Fixer tenplus1: hit by you
14:30 Shara ThomasMonroe: Totally happy with you making a PR if you can get the unicode idea working, since it was your idea. Othrewise I can play around with it tomorrow probably... assuming I do get home
14:30 Fixer tenplus1: i don't want to see hp indicators for mobs damaged by environment or other players
14:30 benrob0329 Christmas day is the best time to get Chinese food though :P
14:30 tenplus1 hi benrob
14:30 tenplus1 Fixer: will look into it
14:30 benrob0329 Hi ten
14:30 Fixer ty
14:31 ThomasMonroe Shara, hope you have a nice trip ;P
14:31 Shara Heh, thanks. I do have a plane sorted out, but it's getting home from there that will be rough now
14:31 ThomasMonroe I still don't know how I would get the unicode into Lua though..
14:31 ThomasMonroe Google is not helping much XD
14:32 benrob0329 ThomasMonroe: does Minetest use lua 5.3?
14:32 Shara No clue either, and dont even know if it can be done, but we can take a look anyway
14:32 ThomasMonroe idk benrob0329, you'd have to ask Krock I think
14:33 Krock TRIGGERED
14:33 tenplus1 :P
14:33 Shara Hehe
14:33 ThomasMonroe lol
14:33 Krock no, it doesn't. We're staying with 5.1
14:33 benrob0329 http://lua-users.org/wiki/LuaUnicode
14:33 benrob0329 :-(
14:33 Megaf 12:28 <Shara> Sitting in an airport dealing with a seriously delayed flight here lol
14:33 Megaf Me on Monday ^
14:33 Shara Laptop battery about to die though, back later probably if I can find somewhere to plug in
14:34 tenplus1 laters shara, happy travels
14:34 benrob0329 ThomasMonroe: you kinda out of luck then for Unicode helpers
14:34 Megaf I found a socket inside the airplane..
14:34 ThomasMonroe bummer
14:34 Megaf Have a good trip Shara
14:34 Jordach Shara: hugs deployed
14:34 benrob0329 Shara: safe travels
14:41 tenplus1 Fixer: Mobs Redo API updated, will only show mob HP when punched
14:45 Fixer ty
14:47 Fixer tenplus1: i still wonder if it possible to somehow hide nametags by obstacles in lua, for players or other entities
14:47 tenplus1 how do you mean ?
14:47 Fixer tenplus1: aka like in minecraft, if player is behind the wall - nametag is not visible
14:48 tenplus1 you woudl have to check every single player/mob, do a line of sight to hide/show nametag... would lag
14:48 Fixer tenplus1: or look at servers with unlimited nametags, they pretty much clutter spawn side of the screen
14:49 tenplus1 unless the textface is added instead of signs_lib we could use proper text displays above player and on node faces.. then it would be shown above player/mob like a particle and be invisible through walls
14:51 tenplus1 that way when they are hit we could easily add a text particle that slowly floats up... you wont see those through walls :D
15:00 CBugDCoder It would be nice to redo the engine nametags so that they work like that but i am not well versed in C++
15:01 tenplus1 yeah...  we could have upright text sprites so they are readable in all directions
15:02 CBugDCoder yea ik that that has been done in mobs but i was thinking that we could redo the way the nametag is done in the engine to be more like the MC nametag
15:03 tenplus1 that's what I mean :)
15:03 CBugDCoder the outline is vivible theough walls but the text isnt
15:03 tenplus1 we need a text library to draw text in colours for sprites/node faces etc
15:03 tenplus1 then they can be shown just like mc if needed
15:03 CBugDCoder yea that would help alot
15:04 tenplus1 signs_lib mod and display_text mods is prolly used a LOT on servers and can easily cause many areas to slowdown when drawing text entities...
15:07 CBugDCoder yea unfoutrunatly but eventually i hope that text can be added to the node textures directly by the client using their font
15:08 tenplus1 +10000
15:08 tenplus1 :P
15:08 CBugDCoder :P
15:13 tenplus1 am wondering if irrlicht engine can do this already
15:17 benrob0329 tenplus1: Irrlicht can do a lot of things we dont use :-)
15:17 benrob0329 Like render to texture
15:17 benrob0329 :P
15:17 * benrob0329 still wants a camera api
15:18 tenplus1 am sure there's a mod for just that
15:19 benrob0329 tenplus1: MT doesnt even have dynamic textures, let alone extra render targets
15:19 Megaf tenplus1: we could just have an option, broadcast nametag = on/off
15:19 * tenplus1 explores irrlicht for goodies :D
15:20 benrob0329 Now if I could render an image with a custom FOV from a server mod, that'd work
15:20 benrob0329 And apply that as a texture, I'd be golden
15:20 tenplus1 interesting... *strokes chin*
15:20 Megaf tenplus1: the possibility of hiding/showing nametag
15:20 Megaf already exists
15:21 Megaf It's a server setting based on radious
15:21 tenplus1 not so much player nametags Megaf, but rendering them as sprites which can be hidden behind walls
15:21 Megaf so we just have to call the hidenametag based on something else
15:22 benrob0329 I could take a high FOV picture when you open the tardis doors, and apply that to a semi-oval to give the illusion of BOTI
15:22 Megaf I'm not feeling terribly well... Too hot. I think I need more coffee and sleep
15:22 tenplus1 hide_nametags = <true|false|nodes>
15:22 Megaf nodes!?
15:22 tenplus1 cant be seen throug nodes :P
15:23 benrob0329 The problem is that we have no way to take pictures from a mod, nor dynamic textures, not per-node textures
15:24 benrob0329 Oh, what if rather than probing the client for keys, the server asked the client for certain keystrokes that a mod requires?
15:25 benrob0329 The client then sends keypress/keyrelease events to the server for that key
15:25 tenplus1 hrmm
15:25 benrob0329 That would get rid of the lag caused by constant sprint mod probing
15:26 tenplus1 I only poll for keys every .5ms
15:26 benrob0329 Yeah, that doesnt cause any lag... 🙃
15:27 benrob0329 I literally had a sprint mod slow everything down on a server, and I had a ton of mobs on it too
15:27 benrob0329 The mobs were fast, the sprint mod slowed it down
15:27 tenplus1 enable:  remove_far_mobs = true    in minetest.conf file that helps :D
15:28 benrob0329 But the mobs weren't a problem
15:28 benrob0329 The sprint mod (both classic sprint and hbsprint) slowed things down
15:28 * Shara sneaks back in
15:28 Megaf tenplus1: I couldnt find that tag
15:29 tenplus1 it's a mob api setting only...
15:30 tenplus1 if a mob is inside an unloaded area of map they are removed
15:31 benrob0329 tenplus1: which is a good setting to have, but the mobs didn't slow things down..at all
15:31 tenplus1 yeah was the live key polling
15:32 benrob0329 Exactly
15:32 benrob0329 Gonna make an issue about this
15:33 tenplus1 player keypresses could easily be gotten by engine and stored in table, then checking the keypress is as easy as checking table... no lag... a simple variable check
15:33 benrob0329 tenplus1: I think a callback would be best
15:33 tenplus1 that too :D
15:33 benrob0329 No lag between keypress and sprinting
15:35 benrob0329 minetest.register_key({
15:35 benrob0329 name = Sprint
15:36 benrob0329 defaultkeys = {"e", "w"}
15:36 tenplus1 on_press = function,     on_release = function,
15:36 benrob0329 Yup
15:37 ThomasMonroe we ought to organize a Minetest correspondence chess tournament :D
15:37 benrob0329 Defaultkeys is a keycombonation
15:38 benrob0329 The client can remap the key combination under then name given
15:38 benrob0329 And it will remember based on the name
15:40 benrob0329 Going to comment on #5825
15:53 benrob0329 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5825
15:53 benrob0329 tenplus1: ^^
15:54 tenplus1 +1'd
15:55 benrob0329 I think this would help greatly simplify mods as well
15:56 tenplus1 yeah, would pass a lot off to the engine and speed things up
15:56 tenplus1 wish they would do the same with nodes around player, that'd help many mods also
16:09 benrob0329 tenplus1: what if we expanded on this idea
16:10 tenplus1 they keys ?
16:10 benrob0329 And all keys except basic movement keys were registered by the server
16:10 benrob0329 on_rightclick becomes on_interact
16:11 benrob0329 You register whatever you want, even source engine like interaction with e
16:11 rubenwardy benrob0329, +1
16:12 rubenwardy not an entirely original idea
16:12 tenplus1 is a good idea
16:12 rubenwardy relevant: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5348
16:12 benrob0329 rubenwardy: probably not, but a logical one imo
16:12 rubenwardy yeah
16:15 benrob0329 Even basic movement keys could be registered, if we have proper client triggers
16:16 tenplus1 could use those to set player animation
16:20 benrob0329 You could
16:20 benrob0329 Could use this system for a lot of things
16:24 * Shara starts considering christmas in germany
16:24 tenplus1 sausage & beer :P
16:24 Shara Destination airport is now closed.
16:24 tenplus1 nuuuuu
16:24 shivajiva poop
16:24 Shara Accident a few hours ago.
16:24 tenplus1 indeed
16:25 tenplus1 hope it's nothing serious
16:25 shivajiva what are they offering
16:25 Shara My flight is stills cheduled, but apparently it's not great odds
16:26 shivajiva on the bright side there are 2 more days to get home
16:27 Shara Worst case I spend christmas trying to write mods :P
16:28 tenplus1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX_Oy-lSix8 hrm, interesting server setup
16:30 Mr_Pardison joined #minetest-hub
16:30 tenplus1 hi Mr_Pardison
16:30 Mr_Pardison hello tenplus1
16:31 * benrob0329 edits issue with extra ideas for expanding upon basic api
16:32 tenplus1 password list ?
16:32 benrob0329 tenplus1: keys
16:32 Mr-Pardison joined #minetest-hub
16:32 benrob0329 Like, "w2" for double tapping sprint
16:33 benrob0329 (Aka mc-style sprint)
16:34 tenplus1 I have xanadu players hold down E while walking to sprint... if you have 'fast' priv it just uses fast instead
16:34 benrob0329 tenplus1: but with this the player could choose
16:34 tenplus1 true
16:34 benrob0329 We can get rid of the "special" key then as well
16:35 rubenwardy in a new system, you'd have  interact and fast
16:35 rubenwardy which may be bound to the same key
16:35 rubenwardy or may not
16:36 Mr-Pardison joined #minetest-hub
16:36 Mr_Pardison bad net connection.
16:37 tenplus1 indeed...  you being hit by net neutrality failure :P
16:37 benrob0329 Technically things like the minimap could be triggered by the server
16:38 benrob0329 And other HUD elements defined by csm (server sent ofc)
16:44 Mr_Pardison net neutrality, maybe.
16:44 Mr_Pardison my not tethering the wifi hot-spot was probably the thing.
16:46 tenplus1 from what I read net neutrality may be re-instated in USA
16:46 Mr_Pardison I hope it is.
16:47 benrob0329 Why? We already have the FTC
16:47 benrob0329 The FCC put then back in jurisdiction when they repealed NN
16:47 tenplus1 they cannot hide the fact that 9million ppl and over wanted net neutrality over the 3 muppets who got rid of it
16:47 benrob0329 Cant hide the fact the government should not control what they don't pay for :-)
16:47 tenplus1 exactly...
16:48 benrob0329 Here in the US they don't subsidize the ISPs
16:48 benrob0329 The ISPs pay a lot of fees to run wires to your house
16:48 tenplus1 so they should let alone entirely
16:48 benrob0329 No, the FTC is supposed to keep companies fair an d honest
16:49 benrob0329 But scaling back the porn site everyone is watching because so I can do my banking is OK
16:49 tenplus1 hah
16:50 benrob0329 Excuse the broken English, that sentence had a few iterations :P
16:50 tenplus1 some dude downloaded 1 terrabyte of porn cause he was worried that removing net neutrality was gonna have him paying for it :D
16:50 Mr_Pardison ......
16:50 Mr_Pardison >.<
16:50 * Mr_Pardison keeps overwatch on some other channels
16:51 benrob0329 Netflix takes a LOT od bandwidth, if everyone is watching it at once it may need to be throttled so smaller sites can get through
16:52 benrob0329 That or they get a bigger pipe, which may require in-house server hosting if the lines cant handle it
16:52 tenplus1 speeds are increasing every month
16:52 Aerozoic If the ISP can't provide the bandwidth that they promise, then it's the ISP's fault, not netflix.
16:53 benrob0329 Aerozoic: I never said they couldn't
16:53 tenplus1 yup
16:53 tenplus1 I pay for 50mb/sec so thats what I expect
16:54 benrob0329 And thats what you get under any normal circumstance
16:54 benrob0329 Netflix needs a REALLY BIG pipe, probably more than what can be provided without laying in billions of dollars worth of lines to them
16:55 tenplus1 or better compression in movie formats
16:55 benrob0329 Or decentralization
16:55 tenplus1 maybe use torrent tech...
16:55 tenplus1 if someone else playing they can share/stream from them also
16:55 benrob0329 Or server to server federation
16:56 Megaf benrob0329: they dont have a single pipe
16:56 Megaf they have localized servers around the globe
16:56 Megaf many reside WITH the internet provider
16:56 benrob0329 But you have to understand, if everyone tried to use all if the bandwidth at once, things would slow down
16:56 Megaf That's how they are able to function
16:57 benrob0329 Because if everyone had dedicated equipment, your cable bill would go to by a few thousand to pay for it
16:57 tenplus1 I wonder what codec netflix uses to stream video content
16:58 benrob0329 Iirc electrical companies are built similarly to where everyone cant use everything at once
17:00 benrob0329 Megaf: everyone freaked out when they did that with Comcast
17:01 benrob0329 Then NN happened, which makes that whole ordeal extra complicated
17:05 * benrob0329 uploaded an image: HighwayNeutrality.jpg (861KB) <https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/down​load/matrix.org/twLytRXzMJstjIlASVOqiHEN>
17:05 benrob0329 ;)
17:05 tenplus1 lol
17:06 Krock heh
17:08 Dargod joined #minetest-hub
17:08 tenplus1 hi Dargod
17:08 Dargod hi tenplus1
17:08 Darcidride_ joined #minetest-hub
17:09 tenplus1 o/ Darcidride
17:10 rubenwardy internet doesn't work like that
17:17 benrob0329 rubenwardy: no, not exactly. Its still funny though
17:18 benrob0329 Hahahah
17:18 benrob0329 Just saw a Chromebook ad
17:18 benrob0329 "If you've ever wishes your laptop had no limits"
17:18 Mr_Pardison Chromebooks are pretty good if u don't need all that Microsoft stuff.
17:18 benrob0329 Then dont buy a Chromebook, the freaking WiFi was shut down once
17:19 Mr_Pardison and if u put it into developer mode, u can run linux native.
17:19 * Mr_Pardison is using one right now
17:19 tenplus1 prefer to simply run lnux :P
17:19 benrob0329 Google legit shut off the internet to thousands of Chromebooks a while back, had people complaining about it in the Linux room
17:19 Mr_Pardison crouton is used and it's made by google so that's nice.
17:19 Mr_Pardison might have been for some ppl but not all of us.
17:19 benrob0329 People in education asking if there was a way to bypass it iirc
17:20 Mr_Pardison bypass what?
17:20 benrob0329 The turned off Wifi
17:20 benrob0329 I'll see if I can get a permalink to the conversation
17:21 Mr_Pardison tether it but that would require a lot of cables and ports so that's not really feasible.
17:24 benrob0329 Can't find it, it was from a while ago though
17:25 Mr_Pardison I've got a cold and I don't feel like doing much.
17:27 tenplus1 aww
17:28 tenplus1 so many ppl getting sick this season, wonder if the fly bug has mutated
17:30 benrob0329 I get sick like once a year
17:30 benrob0329 When I do, I'm out for 3 days
17:30 tenplus1 hot ginger, lemon & honey helps...
17:30 benrob0329 Then I'm mostly good
17:45 Krock Note to myself: Never again use 512px textures when you don't know how much RAM it could take
17:45 Krock filled a gigabyte of swap with texture cache. :<
17:45 tenplus1 oof
17:45 Mr_Pardison yeesh.
17:45 bigfoot547 :L uh oh
17:46 bigfoot547 rood
17:46 tenplus1 hi bigfoot
17:46 bigfoot547 hehe
17:46 bigfoot547 Hi tenplus1
17:46 Krock system was likely dead and HDD busy as hell but luckily it was only 15*15*(512*512) pixels
17:46 bigfoot547 What relays from here?
17:46 bigfoot547 I see an [off] line
17:49 twoelk joined #minetest-hub
17:49 tenplus1 hi twoelk
17:49 twoelk o/
17:50 Mr_Pardison \o
17:50 tenplus1 o-------------------
17:50 tenplus1 the long arm of the law... muyahahhaah
17:51 * twoelk decides to switch from lurking mode for now and joins a bunch of channels
17:51 bigfoot547 yay
17:51 bigfoot547 I just culled a bunch of channels on a network
17:53 nerzhul joined #minetest-hub
17:53 tenplus1 wb nerzhul
17:53 twoelk hm #megafserver seems alive, just somewhat empty
17:54 * twoelk goes on testing entries on his long channel list
17:56 nerzhul hi tenplus1
18:23 Raven262 joined #minetest-hub
18:23 tenplus1 wb
18:23 Raven262 thx ten
18:51 RobbieF joined #minetest-hub
18:51 tenplus1 hey robbie
18:51 RobbieF hey tenplus1
18:51 tenplus1 hows the season treating ya ?
18:51 RobbieF I just wanted to login to wish you all a merry Christmas  :)  Been busy around here.
18:51 RobbieF Great man. How about you?
18:51 tenplus1 workign away :P
18:51 RobbieF cool, cool. What is it this week?
18:52 tenplus1 off tomorrow so Xmas dinner with Mom, then working 24th, 25th and 26th... pah humbug!... lolol
18:52 ThomasMonroe hey RobbieF, Merry Christmas
18:52 tenplus1 merry christmas btw
18:52 RobbieF Glad you get to fit in a Christmas dinner all the same
18:52 ThomasMonroe O.O work on the 25th!
18:52 RobbieF thanks guys, you too
18:52 RobbieF Do you get like, quadruple time and a half for that?!
18:52 tenplus1 I wish...  time and a half only
18:53 * twoelk sits at office wrapping pending issues so as to be able to stay a few days away from office at a piece
18:53 Krock tenplus1, humfeatures from Scrooge everywhere
18:53 RobbieF hehe
18:53 tenplus1 lolol
18:53 tenplus1 hi unk
18:54 Krock hi unk
18:54 tenplus1 Xanadu now has new Teleport Pad and Mobs API active and working a-ok :)
18:54 RobbieF very nice
18:54 sofar RobbieF: https://github.com/Cat5TV/tps_spill seems like an excellent mod to maintain in minetest-mods - migrate it?
18:55 RobbieF Thank you
18:55 RobbieF I've never had a mod migrated... does that mean if I fix a bug I'd have to do it on minetest-mods instead of tps_spill? or are they connected somehow?
18:56 sofar so what happens if you move it the right way is that stuff just keeps working as github redirects automatically
18:56 RobbieF oh a recursive mod?
18:56 RobbieF recursive repository, I mean
18:56 sofar no
18:56 sofar github internally knows where it's moved
18:57 sofar it'll also tell your git client that it was moved
18:57 sofar you keep editing permissions anyway, so not much changes
18:57 sofar but we should make a forum thread as well to tell people it exists
18:57 tenplus1 o/ sofar
18:57 sofar and just call it `spill`
18:58 tenplus1 good idea for new servers :D
18:58 sofar yeah, this is a pretty nice and simple mod
18:58 RobbieF I like my mods having tps_ though  :(
18:58 RobbieF hehe
18:58 RobbieF it's like, my signature
18:58 tenplus1 heh yeah...
18:58 sofar 'mydoors
18:58 sofar moretrees
18:58 sofar _plus
18:59 sofar _redo
18:59 sofar _yawn
18:59 tenplus1 w00t!
18:59 RobbieF well, we all know my = donbatman
18:59 RobbieF so tps_ = robbief  :D
18:59 Calinou hi
18:59 sofar don't be like tenplus1
18:59 tenplus1 hi Cal
18:59 RobbieF hey cal
19:00 sofar :P
19:00 tenplus1 o.O ?
19:00 RobbieF hey - I could have been mean and went with thepixelshadow_spill  ;D
19:00 Calinou sofar: Be like Bill. Play Minetest.
19:01 RobbieF Regardless, I'm honored to have a mod included and technically you can do whatever you like with it. It'd be nice from my perspective though to clean up the readme and make it more clear that it came from me/TPS and maybe review the code to make sure I'm happy with it being so widely distributed (check for any glitches)
19:02 tenplus1 :)
19:02 sofar I don't do anything with mods in minetest-mods, unless you either desire that or disappear
19:03 RobbieF I'm also quite proud of tps_teleport, just fyi  :D
19:03 sofar so, just as a note
19:03 sofar but tps is heavily associated with specific servers
19:03 sofar `mydoors` doesn't claim an association
19:03 sofar `mobs_redo` doesn't claim an association either
19:04 sofar that's the issue I have with it
19:04 sofar with tps_, I mean
19:04 RobbieF yeah I gotcha
19:04 * tenplus1 renames "mobs_redo" to "xanadu_mobs_redo"
19:04 RobbieF hehe
19:04 sofar again, don't be like tenplus1
19:04 sofar :P
19:04 RobbieF so perhaps we should rename it "trusted"...
19:04 RobbieF though spill works
19:05 RobbieF or no_spill is maybe a bit clearer
19:05 sofar I tend to avoid _ and - even, so I'd even go for `nospill`
19:06 RobbieF can't do nospill
19:06 RobbieF "nos pill"
19:06 Jordach reeeeeeeeeeeeeee
19:06 Jordach underscores are best scores
19:06 RobbieF I'd like to underscore Jordach's point
19:06 sofar well '-' is problematic
19:06 sofar so, it'd be no_spill then
19:07 sofar RobbieF: if you agree, transfer the repo to `sofar`
19:07 RobbieF dots. I think dots should be everywhere. tps.no.spill.3.0
19:07 tenplus1 how about spill_not
19:07 sofar I'll rename it the_pixel_spilled_lava_everywhere
19:07 RobbieF dun_spill_yo
19:07 tenplus1 we got a winner :P
19:07 sofar no_liquid_bro
19:07 RobbieF ^^
19:08 RobbieF only_ma_homies_can_spill_mang
19:08 RobbieF .com
19:08 tenplus1 hah!
19:08 ThomasMonroe lol
19:08 RobbieF anyways... I dun know how to transfer sofar
19:08 sofar github
19:08 sofar settings
19:08 tenplus1 there;d a button somewhere in the git mod page settings
19:08 sofar danger section
19:09 tenplus1 "Danger Will Smith... Danger!"
19:10 RobbieF It says "Are you sure you want to transfer only_ma_homies_can_spill_mang ownership to sofar?" Do I say yes?
19:10 sofar you say "AFFIRMATIVE"
19:10 RobbieF There's only "Yes" and "Oh, helllll no"
19:11 tenplus1 2nd option
19:12 RobbieF if I transfer this, can I still maintain it? Or do I have to do PR's on my own mod?
19:12 sofar you keep commit privileges
19:12 sofar even during the transfer
19:12 sofar you also get a virtual cookie
19:13 tenplus1 mmm, bit cookie
19:14 RobbieF Make it a Christmas Cookie and you got yourself a deal
19:14 * sofar wipes crumbs
19:14 sofar sure
19:14 RobbieF so where will it go after that?
19:15 sofar github.com/minetest-mods/robbie_smells
19:16 RobbieF Like Christmas Cookies!
19:16 sofar I have to do the transfer-transfer double thing because github doesn't allow transfers from people outside of an org into an org directly
19:17 unk hi tenplus1 ...didn't see the greeting until now
19:17 unk hi Krock
19:18 tenplus1 :P
19:20 tenplus1 nite folks :) and to each a Merry Christmas on the day...   o/
19:20 RobbieF Night tenplus1
19:20 tenplus1 left #minetest-hub
19:20 RobbieF merry Christmas
19:20 unk Merry Christmas ten...have a good night
19:20 unk too slow:)
19:21 RobbieF hehe
19:21 RobbieF sofar - so I'm simply transferring it to your username?
19:21 sofar yup, to `sofar`
19:21 RobbieF I will miss my baby  :D
19:22 sofar I'm not taking your daughter, I already have one myself
19:22 unk lol
19:24 sofar RobbieF: want me to do some basics to the mod?
19:24 sofar https://github.com/minetest-mods/no_spill
19:24 RobbieF So now I just sit back and watch my mod get super famous?
19:24 sofar it would help if you made a forum post for this mod
19:24 RobbieF sofar go ahead  :)
19:24 RobbieF alright, doing this now thanks
19:27 RobbieF how come I don't have a new topic button?
19:27 sofar WIP mods
19:27 sofar gotta post it there first
19:28 RobbieF k
19:31 twoelk you seem to have doing some mod security reviewing lately, might be interesting if you posted your checklist on the forum and maybe some statistics about common errors and mistakes
19:32 sofar uhh
19:32 sofar that sounds like work
19:32 Shara sofar: I did NOT give permission for no_spill to be placed on minetest mods.
19:33 sofar I don't see an issue, it's licensed under the unlicense
19:33 Shara Not sure what this is about, and because yay-still-stuck-at-airport I cant even scroll up much, but if Robbie doesn't want to hold the mod anymore, it should go back to me
19:33 sofar that's not the case
19:34 sofar this is more of a "oh wow this is a very useful mod - we should take care of it together" kind of thing
19:34 sofar not a "I'm tenplus1 I'm just gonna fork and own this mod now" kind of thing
19:34 sofar heck
19:34 sofar do you want commit privs?
19:34 Shara sofar: regardless, that should not have been done without speaking with me
19:35 sofar sorry, I think you're wrong there
19:35 sofar I'm not in the business of stealing mods, this is clearly reasonable
19:35 Shara Then please remove it.
19:35 sofar you gave robbief permission to make and publish a mod
19:36 benrob0329 Just realises, the issue about changing selection boxes in texture packs
19:36 benrob0329 1. Selection boxes arent supposed to be shown
19:36 benrob0329 2. Of anyone can change them, that could be disastrous
19:36 sofar I'm not going to remove it
19:36 Shara This is a mod I have worked on multiple versions of for several servers. I wanted to be the one maintaining it.
19:36 benrob0329 Ok thats it, I'm turning off markdown
19:37 sofar I understand you, shara
19:37 sofar but you allowed robbief to make and maintain a mod
19:37 sofar and license it under the unlicense
19:37 benrob0329 **screw markdown**
19:37 Shara Actually not that straigth forward, and I do not know why he has passed this to you
19:37 sofar he hasn't
19:37 sofar he put it in minetest-mods
19:38 Shara Did you not say a mod creator could withdraw their mod at will?
19:38 Shara I created this mod, I want it withdrawn.
19:39 Shara MT mods also doesn't run forks from what I understand
19:39 Shara This is a fork, not the original mod
19:39 sofar you made a mistake
19:39 sofar you're not even acknowledging it
19:39 RobbieF https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=9&amp;t=19115
19:39 RobbieF nvm
19:39 RobbieF lol
19:40 sofar look, I understand your reservation, but, you made a mistake and now you're trying to take back something that has been shared with the world
19:41 sofar and frankly, you have zero ground to explain why either RobbieF or me should even listen to you
19:41 Krock nobody is forced to have their stuff in minetest-mods
19:41 Shara Krock: Seems I am
19:41 sofar I'm still here talking to you to see what the big fuss is about
19:41 sofar Krock: nobody was forced
19:41 Shara sofar: no mistake, I am hapy to share my work but I do not want it there
19:41 sofar that's a misreprestantion at minimum
19:42 sofar you have zero legal grounds to stand on
19:42 Shara Not everything is about legal grounds
19:42 sofar and you're being unreasonable
19:42 sofar and you're deliberately misrepresenting things
19:42 Shara If a mod writer needs to depend on legal grounds just to not have their work placed on minetest mods against their will, what does that say?
19:42 sofar and you're losing sympathy fast
19:43 RobbieF hey hey hey now.... sofar, please check your PM, k?  :)
19:43 Shara Thanks Robbie
19:43 twoelk sofar: how about putting legal grounds aside and put on the more lets sort this out politely glasses?
19:44 sofar so here's what I'll do
19:44 sofar I'll discuss this with the other minetest-mods owners
19:44 sofar then I'll see what comes out of it
19:44 sofar I'll let you know what comes out of that
19:45 Shara sofar: please answer my points regarding the rules of MT mods
19:45 RobbieF sofar, as per my PM please simply transfer it back to me so I can resolve it.
19:45 Shara 1 - is a mod creator allowed to withdraw their mod or not?
19:45 RobbieF Thank you  :)
19:45 Shara 2 - does MT mods now take forks in place of the original mod?
19:46 Shara If my understanding is wrong, then fine, but I go by what I read before.
19:46 sofar with regard to those questions:
19:47 twoelk Shara: just out of couriosity what are the reasons you don't want to maintain it on minetest-mods?
19:48 RobbieF sofar, you know from my response above that I am here to support the community and want to see Minetest be as good as can be, and contribute in any way I can. I made a mistake by not asking Shara for permission. That's my bad. I have simply requested kindly that you honor me by undoing my mistake and let me discuss it amicably with my friend and go from there. That is all. I'm a n00b and ask that you simply respect me and undo my mistake out of
19:49 Shara twoelk: I'm massively in favour of cooperating to maintain mods, but I've built up my own team and my own community, and want the work I made in that context kept within and maintained within that context.
19:50 sofar 1 - minetest-mods current manifest does not state anything wrt "withdrawal" of mods. It does state what is acceptable and what is not acceptable content. Therefore, if it becomes clear that a mod has become "unacceptable" content, it can be and should be removed. In this case, that does not apply based on the history and documentation. No other parts of the manifest or rules (written down or not) cover this case, so in the absence of rules, the
19:50 sofar goal of the organization dictates that mods should not be removed based on the request of people.
19:50 Shara If I make something for MT or MTG or anything else it's different of course, and I will happily pass it over.
19:51 Shara But this mod was made for the servers I work on. If ever MTG wanted it for example, it would be different, but I don't just want to hand it over to an organisation I am not part of.
19:51 sofar 2 - This mod is, looking at the publicly available code repos, not a fork. There is no github reference back to an original work, nor is there a public version available (as per docs) of the original code. So for reasonable people, it goes to say that this mod is not a fork, and is therefore an acceptable addition to minetest-mods.
19:52 Shara It's a fork. I sent Robbie the original but not as a git repo. It has been sitting on my list of things to clean up and publish correctly.
19:52 sofar RobbieF: are you saying that the statement in the README.md is false, where you wrote, I quote, "Used with permission" ?
19:52 * twoelk doesn't like where this is going
19:53 RobbieF sofar I had permission to use it and share it on my own github, but I was wrong in transferring it away from my github (where I had permission to use it) without first consulting Shara. That is my bad, and I'd ask you to understand and respect that.
19:53 * benrob0329 sighs
19:54 sofar did you have permission to license it under the `Unlicense` ?
19:54 sofar (explicitly)
19:54 RobbieF no
19:54 Shara sofar: I am sorry if I came across strongly, but that's the ten plus hour flight delay and not knowing if I can get home for christmas speaking, but please show MT mods has some basic respect in this
19:54 sofar then the mod is unacceptable content according to the minetest-mods standards
19:55 RobbieF I should have corrected things as I mentioned... it was just my mistake for accepting as you'd mentioned I'd still be the committer
19:55 RobbieF I'm still pretty new to github / this.
19:55 sofar I have removed it from minetest-mods as it is illegally obtained source code
19:55 RobbieF as is apparent by my first questions
19:55 RobbieF why not just transfer it back to me like I had asked?
19:55 sofar I strongly advise you to _not_ upload it before you resolve licensing issues again
19:56 sofar I can't transfer (distribute) software that is illegally obtained
19:56 Shara sofar: then what? you add it to mt mods again?
19:56 sofar you still have your original git clone
19:56 Shara This is not about what is legal, it's about what is decent.
19:56 * twoelk just for a momment thought this might turn out easy :-(
19:57 sofar I won't add it until BOTH (1) it gets submitted, and (2) the content becomes legal and in order to do so, both RobbieF and Shara should attest to it
19:58 sofar I'm deleting my local close as we speak
19:58 sofar *poof*
19:58 Shara Thank you.
19:58 sofar I don't have it and I can't download it until someone uploads it again
19:59 sofar RobbieF: do you want me to delete your forum post?
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20:00 twoelk might need add something about removing mods to the mt-rules
20:00 sofar the goals of minetest-mods oppose removing mods
20:00 sofar they're clearly in conflict
20:00 twoelk well if you put that in bold letters you'll scare people away
20:01 sofar it would just encourage bad authors deleting their code
20:01 Shara It's not a good feeling
20:01 Fixer nerzhul IRL https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cofKxtIO3Is
20:01 twoelk I don't think this is a good way to go
20:01 RobbieF yes sofar, please delete my forum post. I'll be more careful in future, thanks.
20:02 Fixer Calinou: who is Bill?
20:02 twoelk I really don't want people to avoid giving to mt-mods
20:03 Shara A mod writer shouldn't be placed in a situation where they effectively lose control of their own work.
20:03 Shara It's why I dont put my mods there.
20:03 sofar you effectively gave up control when you and robbief didn't clearly communicate ownership and licensing
20:03 sofar that's the mistake both of you made
20:03 sofar oh well, that problem is solved
20:03 sofar now nobody has this nice mod
20:04 sofar that problem is now present
20:04 Shara sofar: you really need to understand - I have no objections to people using my work, forking my work, whatever they like, but the definitve copy of one of my mods is my copy
20:04 sofar so, we all lose
20:04 sofar your copy does not exist
20:04 Shara yet
20:04 sofar lame
20:04 Shara I already told you it is on my to do list
20:05 sofar I'm not trying to make you feel bad, but, it was a nice mod and now nobody has it
20:05 sofar that's the loss
20:05 sofar so, let's fix that
20:05 Shara should have passed it back to Robbie then
20:05 sofar he has his own git clone
20:05 sofar you have yours
20:05 Shara people could have used his version while I work on mine
20:05 twoelk hopefully
20:05 sofar no copyrights are being violated by me transferring it back
20:05 Shara that was why he made his available
20:06 * RobbieF is a lover, not a fighter.
20:06 sofar well, if you're interested in working out a reasonable agreement with proper licensing rules, I'd offer to help make this mod publishable
20:06 Shara sofar: I don't really need help on this, just time and to decide which of the many approaches I have used is best
20:07 Shara if you want to talk through it with me for that purpose, would be more than happy
20:07 RobbieF Thanks sofar.
20:07 twoelk Shara: are the air yet?
20:07 RobbieF I think we can move on now.
20:07 twoelk oops
20:07 twoelk intheairyet
20:08 twoelk whatever
20:08 twoelk :-D
20:08 Shara :D
20:08 twoelk hope you arrive wherever you plan to on time
20:09 Shara no idea if I even take off
20:09 Shara Sitting at the gate now.. and the flight just got pushed back again
20:09 twoelk :-(
20:09 benrob0329 sofar: any chance of getting a way to use a part of the world as a texture?
20:09 benrob0329 Like, be able to "take a picture" from a server mod and use it on a model
20:11 twoelk I remember sitting in newjersey for quit a while and wondering at which airport in europe I might arrive
20:11 twoelk ended up in heathrow instead of hamburg
20:11 Shara It's a bit like that here.. been given four possible airports we might get diverted to so far
20:11 Krock joined #minetest-hub
20:12 unk wb Krock
20:14 twoelk I once missed a flight half on purpose to spend a day in Paris
20:15 Shara Hehe
20:15 Shara Did get stranded in Amsterdam once before :)
20:17 Krock ty
20:18 Krock twoelk, hehe. Was surely worth it ^^
20:18 sofar benrob0329: seems trivial? minetestmapper + uvmap?
20:18 Shara might be boarding now... wish me luck
20:18 benrob0329 sofar: I mean like, render a portion of the world
20:18 twoelk to be honest, my dad used to book flights like that so the company had to provide a hotel and we did some sightseeing
20:19 unk have a safe flight Shara
20:19 twoelk spent 4 days in Moscow like that as a kid
20:19 sofar benrob0329: that's not a texture, you want to make a model import
20:19 benrob0329 Single frame render-to-texture
20:19 sofar I'm not sure I understand
20:19 sofar a screenshot is a single frame render
20:20 sofar do you want a screenshot?
20:20 benrob0329 Yes, but from a server mod
20:20 benrob0329 Used as a texture
20:20 benrob0329 Made dynamically
20:20 sofar the server can't dynamically add textures
20:21 twoelk sounds similar to the old paint mod
20:21 sofar you can only compose them, so, you could do that and make like a map thing
20:21 twoelk sounds like a lag generating feature
20:22 benrob0329 Composing a texture for an approximation of a screenshot? You betcha that'll be laggy
20:23 sofar nah, I don't think that needs to be laggy at all
20:23 sofar a vmanip can be easily used to grab a large area and make a composition
20:24 benrob0329 For a 2D slice, yes
20:25 benrob0329 Which is helpful for something else, thanks
20:25 benrob0329 But not for this
20:25 twoelk could one grab wat's allready there like a snapshot of the minimap?
20:26 ThomasMonroe afaik thats in c++
20:26 benrob0329 What I want to do: Render an image of what an area looks like, apply to model to give the illusion of a portal
20:26 benrob0329 What I can do:
20:26 twoelk actually a billboard showing a minimap that is constantly updated would be a cool mod :-P
20:26 benrob0329 Static image
20:27 benrob0329 2D approximation
20:28 twoelk wasn't there a pc mod that had a view in a view?
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20:29 ThomasMonroe benrob0329, what you could do is check to see what biome your portal goes to, and have a texture that corresponds to that biome
20:29 IhrFussel How can this var return a nil value? local addmute = io.open(minetest.get_worldpath() .. "/permissions/muted/"..target..".txt", "w")
20:30 benrob0329 ThomasMonroe: it just wouldn't look right imho
20:30 Fixer "prices have tumbled from more than $100 per megabyte to $10"
20:30 Fixer 1987
20:31 RobbieF have a merry Christmas all! Seeya in 2018 if not before  :)
20:31 ThomasMonroe it would be better than nothing
20:31 ThomasMonroe bye RobbieF
20:31 ThomasMonroe Merry Christmas
20:31 RobbieF u2 TM
20:32 RobbieF left #minetest-hub
20:38 Fixer ha https://i.imgur.com/W0PN6gy.png
20:40 EvergreenTree joined #minetest-hub
20:42 benrob0329 sofar: anyways its not necessary but would be nice for world portals
20:42 benrob0329 Perspective can be mostly faked using model shape
20:42 benrob0329 I think, I have yet to test that theory
20:44 Calinou <sofar> you effectively gave up control when you and robbief didn't clearly communicate ownership and licensing
20:44 Calinou I can't emphasise it enough, but always be super clear in licensing
20:44 Calinou this might seem obvious, but it isn't to many people
20:45 Calinou better be too adamant than not adamant enough about it
20:46 IhrFussel local file = io.open("/some/path/"..var..".txt","w") << will file return nil if var is nil?
20:48 benrob0329 IhrFussel: concatenation of nil probably returns nil
20:48 benrob0329 Io.open(nil, "w")
20:48 twoelk wont that just return <.txt> ?
20:48 benrob0329 I doubt it
20:49 * twoelk should go to bed
20:49 twoelk input not output - I'm sleeping allready
20:49 IhrFussel Cause that's what MT said in the crash report "attempting to index file (a nil value)" but then I woner how my var can even be nil cause a bit above that file creation I do "if minetest.get_player_by_name(var) == nil then minetest.chat_send_player(name, "This player is not online.") return end"
20:50 Fixer "backing up with your VCR" OKAY
20:51 benrob0329 IhrFussel: are you tying to concat a table?
20:51 benrob0329 Aka a player object
20:51 twoelk you got no ifwhen decision around the open filter :-P
20:51 benrob0329 I get the feeling thats probably what your doing, which will return nil
20:52 twoelk it probably doesn't know where to go if the value happens to be nil
20:52 benrob0329 Should the player object have player._con() defined? Yes, yes it should
20:52 benrob0329 But it probably doesnt
20:52 IhrFussel One sec will paste my code
21:00 IhrFussel https://pastebin.com/YwqMGRv7
21:01 shivajiva concatenation of nil isn't possible, it throws an error
21:03 IhrFussel I know but I check if the player is online before =/
21:03 IhrFussel If var would be nil wouldnt minetest.get_player_by_name() return nil too?
21:04 shivajiva also nil is considered false in a conditional I believe
21:07 Fixer "future is full of 3-1/2-inch floppy disks" f--- yeah
21:07 shivajiva if not minetest.get_player_by_name(var) then...end is legitimate
21:10 benrob0329 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6815
21:10 shivajiva if not player then return end is a very common check that illustrates it
21:11 benrob0329 Did I say something horribly wrong?
21:12 shivajiva did you?
21:12 shivajiva I just like chipping in :)
21:14 benrob0329 shivajiva: well, he closed the issue without a word, so I assume he is just frustrated
21:15 benrob0329 I just wanted to make sure I wasn't being unreasonable
21:15 Calinou "I think the use cases you state do not remotely justify the complexity and coding needed."
21:15 Calinou how many times did paramat say that now?
21:15 Calinou :/
21:16 Calinou it's becoming obessional for him
21:16 Calinou obsessional*
21:16 shivajiva benrob: you always seem to be trying to be reasonable to me
21:16 sfan5 IhrFussel: trying to concat a string and nil causes an error btw
21:16 shivajiva ^ as I said
21:17 IhrFussel sfan5, but I check if the var to concat is nil before... shivajiva could be right though that == nil is not as good as if not
21:18 benrob0329 shivajiva: I try my best, but don't always succeed
21:18 IhrFussel Well I don't directly check if the var is nil, I check if such a player is online which should fire with nil as name as well
21:19 shivajiva I was merely pointing out a short circuit in how lua handles nil in a conditional that is widely used within mt mods
21:19 benrob0329 IhrFussel: maybe check if the var is true (if var then), and put all the code following in that
21:20 benrob0329 Else return help
21:21 IhrFussel if not var or not minetest.get_player_by_name(var) then << I'll try this now
21:22 benrob0329 I still think that doing things if true is clearer :P
21:23 IhrFussel To exclude the error cases first is better because I can then concentrate on the true case easily
21:26 shivajiva if there is one thing I have done it's study all the popular mods to see what error traps have been added and what condition would require the trap to be coded. Seems to be a bias to catching errors and returning so the correct case logic flows nicer without too many indents on branching.
21:27 benrob0329 Maybe I'm just an optimist :D
21:27 shivajiva it has to be said that you know a good flow the second you form it because it simplifies the task
21:27 benrob0329 Or I think differently, I generally like to have the meat of the code first then the corner-case
21:28 shivajiva that in itself can be be very personal to how you think
21:29 shivajiva coding is like chess, there are good and bad players and we all improve with iteration
21:29 benrob0329 >how you think
21:30 benrob0329 So thaats why no one contributes to the tardis mod
21:30 benrob0329 Jk
21:31 benrob0329 Still need to finish cleaning that code up, and improve the visual timing code
21:31 shivajiva do you want contributors?
21:32 benrob0329 Always :P
21:32 benrob0329 Although I should be careful what I wish for 🤔
21:32 shivajiva I'm happy to get issues never mind contributions
21:33 benrob0329 "Oh what, there is someone using this thing?"
21:33 shivajiva lol
21:33 benrob0329 "Yeah, lemme fix that bug you found by actually playing with this thing I made"
21:36 shivajiva WIP tells them it's flawed but the tools are still out for tweaking, the community decides if it's stable enough for maintenance only when it is ;)
21:37 benrob0329 I can tell you its not stable versioning wise, the mod itself should be ok as-is though
21:38 benrob0329 In other words, "its stable if you never update"
21:39 twoelk nope
21:39 twoelk not when the engine changes again and nothing fits anymore
21:39 benrob0329 True
21:40 benrob0329 Good news is, no such thing as PR rot
21:47 Calinou >So I think it's fair, but comment as you wish, salty redditor.
21:47 Calinou https://www.reddit.com/r/FOSSPhotography/comments​/7liwlz/new_darktable_website/drmwdfe/?context=3
21:47 Calinou :-)
21:47 Calinou I won
21:49 shivajiva as long as changes are structured and road mapped, nothing is bolted on ad hoc and there is thorough testing there is no reason to stop progress. Most of that is in place but lacks resources to accomplish. MT also fails to recognise people who support the project other than core developers which has a corrosive effect over time and stops it growing.
22:00 ThomasMonroe Calinou, I've gone up in chess rating a bit :)
22:03 DI3HARD139 joined #minetest-hub
22:03 benrob0329 CC-NC is more liberal than most websites
22:03 benrob0329 s/liberal/free
22:04 benrob0329 Or whatever term you want to use
22:06 rubenwardy Fixer: floating nametags is possible
22:07 rubenwardy see the city states server
22:07 rubenwardy there's a video by NathanS
22:07 rubenwardy it likely uses entity hacks, but looks good enough
22:09 Calinou ThomasMonroe: nice :D
22:09 Calinou benrob0329: this is technically true, but I have other issues with that licensing
22:09 Calinou the "good enough" argument doesn't work here, I feel
22:09 Calinou because we can do better :)
22:09 Calinou ThomasMonroe: we can play some games tomorrow if you'd like
22:10 Calinou not tonight, I'm going to sleep soon
22:10 benrob0329 Calinou: we can always do better :-)
22:10 Jordach you know what i'd like to see for the dynamic skybox?
22:11 Jordach a gradient fade instead of those hard transitions at the horizon
22:11 benrob0329 CC-BY-SA is my go to license for art, and Simplified BSD for code
22:15 Calinou there should be a Complicated BSD with 15 clauses
22:15 Calinou 13. Refer to clause 15.
22:15 Calinou 15. Refer to clause 13.
22:15 Calinou :P
22:18 ThomasMonroe Calinou, I'll be working up at the new house tomorrow.
22:19 Fixer Calinou: crash on loading map17 in brutal doom megawad :/
22:19 benrob0329 Are we sure entities can't be semitransparent?
22:20 Fixer had to changemap it, to make it work
22:20 Fixer saves are broken for that map for some reason
22:27 rubenwardy lol
22:27 rubenwardy > semitransparency
22:27 rubenwardy good luck!
22:27 benrob0329 Dithering with a higher resolution texture might work
22:29 Calinou dithering is what Xonotic does
22:29 Calinou it doesn't look that bad actually
22:29 Calinou (but not for semitransparent textures, it works for textures with transparent areas)
22:29 Calinou (such as chain fences, etc)
22:31 benrob0329 High-def dithering texture applied to a scaled up UV texture with a not modifier?
22:31 benrob0329 Scaling done with a modifier
22:34 rubenwardy https://i.rubenwardy.com/lgjmaGNY0l.png
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23:08 Jordach rubenwardy: nice string length you got there
23:08 Jordach :^)
23:09 benrob0329 now the question is, how the heck do I make high-resolution dithered textures
23:09 Calinou benrob0329: the dithering seems to be 1×1 (on screen)
23:09 Calinou benrob0329: the renderer manages it, not the texture artist
23:10 benrob0329 Calinou: MT doesn't have a dither modifier afaik
23:10 Calinou it doesn't indeed
23:10 Calinou Minecraft doesn't have this either btw
23:11 benrob0329 thus, pre-made
23:11 benrob0329 since entities can't (from everything I've heard) have semi-transparent textures
23:22 benrob0329 does mask remove pixels that are completely black?
23:22 benrob0329 [mask
23:46 Sokomine hmm. indirect lighting through slabs does not seem to work anymore?
23:53 Fixer brutal doom bosses are insanely hard

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