Time Nick Message 00:29 benrob0329 do we have a setting for nametag distance 00:29 benrob0329 ? 00:32 benrob0329 nvm, found it 00:55 Fixer oh boy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kc7OfjdEJ4 01:26 red-001 can we just lock https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=18946 if we are going to keep deleting posts? 02:10 benrob0329 Anyone know of any good subgames? 02:10 benrob0329 (Other than SP and MC2) 02:11 VanessaE mt_game + dreambuilder :P 02:42 benrob0329 VanessaE: mtg is not a good game :-) 02:42 ThomasMonroe lol 02:43 VanessaE it is if you add DB to it :) 05:48 jas_ https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4203#issuecomment-352332034 05:49 jas_ !title 05:49 MinetestBot jas_: Can't loop a sound connected to player · Issue #4203 · minetest/minetest · GitHub 05:49 jas_ hehehe 05:49 jas_ (it's not true) 06:16 jas_ sofar: i cited my s sub-game and that was a mistake, the broken version is currently broken but the origin versions aren't. it's even more broken behind me now where it's running now. but yes, looping sounds on objects (player, or entity), has always worked for me. that's why i was surprised to see that issue. 06:16 jas_ i was a little hesitant to make an issue for fade not working on positional sounds, for various reasons (like not enough confirmation) but i looked in .cpp yesterday and i believe it is so 06:17 jas_ soundplay has fade stuff, and soundplayAt does not. anyways, thanks for positive input on sound offect 06:17 jas_ offset* 06:22 jas_ ... unless #4203 is heard looping locally on the client, but not for another client X distance away. i should try that with two players. 06:27 jas_ (so far, the truth is hurting) 06:28 jas_ either i'm mocking this up wrong, it i cannot hear the sound attached to the player at a distance, looping (..this is shocking..) so i hope i'm coding wrong (likely)... lol 06:40 jas_ so far it looks like he's right for multiplayer, it's playing one time and not looping. https://gist.github.com/jastevenson303/13b742e650892c4418bbd04463ecaf25 06:52 jas_ updated my comment and am taking a big break: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4203#issuecomment-352340451 09:00 jas_ and then i test again, because it turns out my poor programming got in that way again, and things start working. *breaks* 10:02 tenplus1 hi folks 10:11 tenplus1 hi lisac 10:12 lisac hey tenplus1! 10:26 tenplus1 hi fussel 10:26 IhrFussel Hey there ... I tried to make my server website HTTPS but this error occurs in certbot :: DNS problem: NXDOMAIN looking up A 10:27 sfan5 did you misspell your domain? 10:27 tenplus1 o/ sfan 10:27 sfan5 or rather does your domain have a www. subdomain too? 10:28 tenplus1 https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/three-unelected-men-just-overrode-the-will-of-83-of-the-us-population-5c7ddeb78541 10:28 lisac sfan5: is www a subdomain? 10:29 sfan5 yes? 10:29 IhrFussel sfan5, that was the problem... my domain only works without www it seems ... now it says it worked but when I open my site in the browser I see no HTTPS still...what else do I need to do (lighttpd) ? 10:29 lisac wow I just googled it 10:29 lisac never thought of it that way 10:30 lisac people actually used internet before WWW existed 10:30 sfan5 IhrFussel: try explicitly putting https:// in front 10:30 sfan5 also you can set up a redirect from HTTP -> HTTPS 10:31 IhrFussel sfan5, website error...do I need to enable HTTPS in lighttpd first? 10:31 sfan5 yes 10:53 IhrFussel I had to copy some files from /etc/letsencrypt and add some lines to the lighttpd conf but it seems to work now 10:53 IhrFussel https://ihrfussels-server.tk << Could anyone check? 10:55 IhrFussel Redirection seems to work now too 10:59 tenplus1 works fine dude :P 11:01 IhrFussel Thanks^^ I really needed to get rid of that "website is not secure" window modern browsers show when entering a password 11:20 IhrFussel My site has rating B here https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/index.html 11:24 tenplus1 hi nerzhul 11:56 tenplus1 hi fixer 12:00 Raven262 Hi ten 12:01 tenplus1 hey raven :P 12:06 Fixer ohi 12:12 tenplus1 back laters... off to see new star wars... w000t! 12:59 Megaf Home sweet home :D 12:59 * Megaf has arrived back in Brazil 13:00 Megaf Calinou: Ireland -> Brazil 13:46 IhrFussel Does this mean only use the below method for emerge_threads when the default setting cannot be found? if (!g_settings->getS16NoEx("num_emerge_threads", nthreads)) nthreads = Thread::getNumberOfProcessors() - 2; 13:52 sfan5 IhrFussel: yes 14:29 Sokomine question regarding settingtypes.txt in a mod folder: where can the actual settings be found in the game? i can only locate the ones from builtin and from subgames - not from any mods 14:30 Sokomine lisac: irony? :-) 14:31 Sokomine ah. greeter is back? so no need to manually say hi again? :) 14:33 Mr-Pardison perhaps there might still be if they don't do it for us. 14:48 Calinou Megaf: ah, you're from Brazil? 14:48 Calinou I thought you were from Germany 15:56 Megaf Calinou: :S 15:57 Megaf Yep, I was born in Brazil and lived here until 3 years ago 15:59 ThomasMonroe huh, interesting 16:00 ThomasMonroe o/ Megaf 16:00 Megaf I arived in Ireland August first, 2014 16:01 Megaf And everytime I come to Brazil, I see how amazing my house here is, and how way more advanced Brazil is comprating to old conservative Europe 16:03 benrob0329 (Kinda off, kinda on for free software in general) https://youtu.be/qMALm1VthGY 16:04 Megaf I never liked Mozilla 16:05 benrob0329 Tl;dw: Mozilla screwed up, multiple times and lost a lot of people's trust and respect. 16:05 Megaf even I was an Open Source kind of guy, I, in the past, rather use Opera (Preto based, up to 12.x) than using Firefox 16:05 Megaf I never took Mozila seriously, never 16:05 Megaf I don't take Debian very seriously either actually... 16:05 * Mr-Pardison has come to prefer chrome except for playing certain games that require the unity plugin which chrome lacks 16:06 benrob0329 Google hasn't had my respect for years 16:06 benrob0329 Mozilla just lost it 16:07 benrob0329 I respect Debian, and many other free culture projects 16:07 benrob0329 Even if I don't use them. 16:07 Megaf I don't like Bryan much... 16:07 Megaf I respected Opera and Sun Microsystems 16:07 Megaf and AMD 16:08 benrob0329 A lot of people respected Sun 16:08 Megaf was let down by Opera and Sun 16:08 Mr-Pardison we all get let down by someone we respect. 16:08 Megaf now a days I care by companies just as much they care about me 16:08 Megaf that is, not at all 16:09 benrob0329 Oracle screwed a bunch of people over when they bought Sun, and we know how that worked out for them 16:10 Megaf a Sun workstation had been my dream machine for several years 16:10 Megaf then one day Oracle ended everything 16:12 benrob0329 Pale moon is the best browser alternative I've found so far, unfortunately it lacks WebRTC 16:12 benrob0329 On purpose, for security reasons 16:13 benrob0329 Now I'm not against native clients for things, the problem is the they are quickly disappearing 16:17 Megaf Try this https://otter-browser.org/ 16:17 Megaf :) 16:27 IhrFussel Any settings here that could cause lag? https://ihrfussels-server.tk/crit_settings.txt 16:30 Sokomine settings...still got no solution to my problem with them. any idea how settingtypes.txt might be made to actually show its settings somewhere? 16:30 Sokomine seems to work for builtin and subgames - but not for mods. at least for me 16:33 Sokomine as far as browsers go...i'd love to find an alternative as well. sadly, really usable web browsers are rare. it gets worse even more when trying to find one for mobile devices 16:37 benrob0329 Megaf: is it good? I think I'll need to compile it 16:40 benrob0329 Nvm, yay Appimages 16:43 Calinou AppImages solve world Linux application hunger! 16:51 paramat IhrFussel the 'trees' 'caves' 'dungeons' settings have no effect like that, they have to be in 'mg_flags =', see conf.example. also 'trees' is now a mgv6 specific flag for use in 'mgv6_spflags =' 16:52 paramat however caves and dungeons, and mgv6 trees are default on so no need 16:53 paramat 'server_unload_unused_data_timeout' looks too high, isn't the default 30? 16:53 paramat 'server_map_save_interval' is possibly too high, you're saving much larger amounts of data less often 16:53 paramat we have discussed these before =) 16:54 paramat i suggest using the default values for those 2 16:55 IhrFussel paramat, when the mg flags are remainings of the v6 mapgen I used before in the same world xP I get the feeling that the server lags more often when I reduce the save interval to 15 or so 16:55 paramat yes 'trees' used to be in 'mg_flags =' 16:57 IhrFussel On each save interval the server also saves the player data which includes attributes... maybe that could cause more lag when 10+ players are online which means ~ 10 attributes per player 17:07 paramat 'server_unload_unused_data_timeout' default is 29s, 600s may be excessive 17:15 Fixer Megaf: wait a second 17:16 Fixer Megaf: oh, it is Otter, here is funny thing: Opera Software Changes Name To Otello Corporation (reuters.com) 17:17 Fixer hmmm, https://otter-browser.org/screenshots/1.png (qt site is clearly a click-bait *cough*) 17:18 * Mr-Pardison hands Fixer a mug of mint tea with some lemon and honey 17:18 Mr-Pardison lot of people are at school when they are sick. 17:18 Mr-Pardison hate that since they get others sick. 17:18 Mr-Pardison grrrrrrrr 17:18 Fixer Mr-Pardison: worst part, same *s go to work and get others sick 17:21 Sokomine Mr-Pardison: seems that way nowadays. i helped a teacher write the papers where the days the pupils where missing are counted and was surprised how many not even missed a single day 17:32 Fixer Calinou: "AppImages solve world Linux application hunger!" time to make autogenerated AppImages for minetest stable/git *cough* 17:56 Calinou :^) 18:01 Mr-Pardison \o Krock 18:03 Krock \o/ 18:04 Megaf benrob0329: Otter is highly experiental amd trully retro looking 18:05 Megaf Fixer: they were using Qt5 wait before Qt5 was cool 18:05 benrob0329 Pale Moon lacks bits from the API that make eg Riot not work 18:05 Megaf not even duckduckgo works in otter :P 18:06 benrob0329 There just isn't a very good browser that isn't from a shady company :-( 18:06 Megaf Opera <12.x 18:07 Megaf and now maybe, and BIG MAYBE. Vivaldi 18:07 Megaf I'm impressed by Vivaldi 18:07 Megaf Vivaldi is from the same guys who made Opera Browser the browser we loved 18:07 Megaf and they work with the community 18:07 Megaf though they are not open source 18:08 Megaf well, WebKit/Blink is, and some of the libs/api they use are also open source 18:08 benrob0329 Vivaldi will never be OSS, the creator is set on proprietary software for some reason 18:09 Megaf He has his reasons, I dont blame him on that 18:09 Megaf as long as he makes a good product, doesnt force anything on us and take our feeback 18:09 benrob0329 No, its a choice 18:10 benrob0329 Just like I can choose not to use it :P 18:10 Megaf A choice of not getting you code copied, and securing your fish, in his "money"model 18:11 benrob0329 If the software is free (as in beer) I don't see why open source is not used, it makes me pause that he is so set on it. 18:13 Megaf man, couple of months ago a thunderstorm, big one, happened here in my house in Brazil 18:13 Megaf the UPS was fried 18:13 Megaf and so was my TV 18:13 Megaf I just looked behind my TV 18:13 Megaf all black, carbon black 18:14 Megaf likely from huge spark, hdmi connector melted 18:14 Calinou and they work with the community 18:14 Calinou though they are not open source 18:14 Megaf then I looked to the back of my workstation, also black 18:14 Calinou I don't think they are then :) 18:14 Megaf and melted 18:14 Megaf tho my workstation still works 18:15 Megaf as in, powers up and boots 18:15 Megaf but the hdmi part is toast 18:18 IhrFussel benrob0329, my server is free but not open-source... many of my mods are unique modifications I don't want to share to prevent copy cats from using what makes my server so unique 18:20 IhrFussel There certainly are good reasons for closed-source things ... open-source makes "stealing" your ideas easier 18:22 Calinou to the clients, servers aren't software, they're services 18:22 Calinou especially since all mods run server-side 18:22 Calinou well, I don't think so :) 18:24 IhrFussel If I would develop a mod for other servers then I'd make it open-source because it is *meant* to be open and adjustable ... but when thinking about my own content I want to keep the code mainly private 18:24 benrob0329 IhrFussel: Servers are slightly different, that isn't code running on my machine possibly doing things to my setup 18:25 Megaf fried PC and computer. https://imgur.com/a/0GwBF 18:26 IhrFussel benrob0329, but CSMs sent from the server likely are 18:27 IhrFussel When they get implemented 18:28 rubenwardy we will add an option to disable proprietary mods, and it should be prominent in the UI before you connect to a server. A lot of our users are FOSS advocates 18:28 rubenwardy there's no reason you can't open source your client-side scripts, and keep mods to yourself 18:29 IhrFussel rubenwardy, how does that work? You will only allow "approved" CSMs with that option enabled? How would the mods get your approval? By verifying in the forum? 18:30 rubenwardy not talking about that 18:30 rubenwardy "disable proprietary mods" -> the client would just need to know the license of each mod 18:31 benrob0329 IhrFussel: I would hope that would be open source :-) 18:31 benrob0329 I should know what gets run on my machine 18:32 benrob0329 Also, I find it sad that wanting code improvements now counts as "stealing" 18:33 rubenwardy IhrFussel: I highly suggest you contribute back fixes to the mods you use, as thanks to the mod author 18:33 benrob0329 Its not like there are licenses which require credit to be given to the author or anything *cough* BSD *cough* 18:33 rubenwardy however, unique features and mods you can keep private 18:33 rubenwardy for example, adding XP to simple mobs which links into your custom XP system 18:33 IhrFussel Servers should be unique and stay unique IMO ... to not share every bit of functions the server uses is totally fine and forces difference between servers 18:34 IhrFussel I agree that clients should know which functions are running on their end 18:35 IhrFussel Although the sandbox should block any kind of malicious code 18:37 benrob0329 I am of the belief that free culture is beneficial to the faming market 18:37 Sokomine IhrFussel: it might get bad when a server eventually shuts down. some parts might then get lost forever. other than that...there will always be some custom things where sharing with all others does not make much sense as other servers have other setups and details 18:37 IhrFussel rubenwardy, it's not really "fixes" it is changes that specifically suit my desired gameplay 18:37 benrob0329 I mean, look how long modable games last, or how many platforms Doom is been ported to 18:37 rubenwardy that's fine. I was talking specifically about bug fixes and generic improvements 18:37 benrob0329 *gaming market 20:13 IhrFussel The majority of lags on my server seems to be caused by teleporting... teleport pads, travelnet, teleport requests via command ... there are several ways to teleport on my server and players heavily use them ... when they arrive at the other point the server has to load quite a few mapblocks at once 20:16 benrob0329 So teleporting causes more lag than conventional travel, but conventional travel is more painful than teleporting 20:16 benrob0329 Got it 20:16 Mr-Pardison traveling by conventional means is way more fun. 20:17 Mr-Pardison yo uget to see stuff. 20:17 Mr-Pardison *you get 20:17 IhrFussel But is it normal for a server to lag 0.5 - 1 sec when teleporting to unloaded area? 20:17 benrob0329 But we need a good (non lag inducing) travel method 20:18 benrob0329 Both boats and carts are way too laggy tbh 20:20 Jordach carts can be non-laggy 20:20 Jordach just has to be done right 20:22 benrob0329 Jordach: I mean in MTG 20:23 benrob0329 Stu's railnet is the best cart mod I've seen 20:23 benrob0329 But it still suffers just as much when lag gets bad 20:23 Jordach then use dtime detection 20:24 Jordach or even lag detection to slow it down 20:30 Sokomine IhrFussel: i heard on a server that my travelnet mod would cause lag. that seems highly suspicious to me; it does not have anything built-in that could cause lag. but teleporting around frequently may of course have an effect - no matter how it is achieved 20:31 * Sokomine hits Mr-Pardison with some chests filled with stacks of cobble for that comment about travelling 20:31 * Mr-Pardison takes the cobble and uses it to expand his crystal farm 20:31 rubenwardy IhrFussel, it'll be due to map loading 20:32 Mr-Pardison you should see the things I saw on DL while travelign to the western edge. 20:32 Sokomine the land will have to be loaded anyway once the player arrives there by foot. it may just be distributed over a longer time 20:32 rubenwardy when you teleport to an entirely unloaded area, it needs to load all blocks around you 20:32 rubenwardy to fix, improve your map I/O 20:32 rubenwardy by, eg: using postgresql 20:32 rubenwardy or a RAM disk 20:32 Sokomine Mr-Pardison: ah, good. crystals look nice 20:32 rubenwardy or going from HDD to SSD or Raid 20:32 Mr-Pardison produces about 25-30 crystals per harvest. 20:33 Mr-Pardison when I let it grow them. 20:33 benrob0329 I'll have to look into using Postgres 20:34 rubenwardy Postgresql is good because it 1) has an in memory cache and 2) is a separate process, so non-blocking I/O 20:34 rubenwardy and maybe improved indexing generall 20:34 Sokomine Mr-Pardison: there are good builds distributed all over the map. but: most houses are not. for me, there's a cost-effect tied in. anything easy to reach may be ok if it's just halfway acceptable and not too ugly. but if the player/server makes me to walk ten minutes to it it'd better be something extremly awe-inspiring that did take an excellent builder days to build 20:34 rubenwardy generally* 20:35 Sokomine rubenwardy: i wonder what effect map-changing mods have on all that. many abms or lbms that actually do find any blocks to change might also lead to a huge amount of blocks that will be written back 20:37 IhrFussel rubenwardy, creating a ramdisk seems to be very complicated :/ And I couldn't get postgresql to run when I tried... Redis worked but took way too long to convert my DB 20:52 paramat "But is it normal for a server to lag 0.5 - 1 sec when teleporting to unloaded area?" no, maybe it's due to a mod though? 20:58 IhrFussel paramat, no, it also happens with a fresh map DB and no mods except MTG I already tried that 20:59 IhrFussel Moving fast already causes some lag after sometime cause at some point the server seems to struggle loading the mapblocks in time 21:02 paramat weird, that amount of lag seems very excessive for just loading a few blocks, your send range is low after all 21:03 Mr-Pardison l8r peeps. 21:03 Mr-Pardison cya after the break. 21:03 Mr-Pardison oh wait. 21:03 Mr-Pardison still have school tomorrow. 21:03 Mr-Pardison well, cya 21:20 Aerozoic Anybody know what causes carts to get so jumpy? 21:25 greeter as in they appear to fly off the tracks occasionally? 21:29 Aerozoic greeter, yes especially when the track changes directions 21:30 Aerozoic It has gotten much worse recently. 21:30 greeter i think it's caused by lag. i've only seen it when block lag is occurring. i could be wrong though, and i can't really be more precise than that i'm afraid 21:36 Fixer !tell paramat during exploration server lag easily exeeds 1 or even 2 in singleplayer 21:36 MinetestBot Fixer: I'll pass that on when paramat is around 21:47 IhrFussel Fixer, did you test the lag when tp to unloaded area (not ungenerated) 21:50 IhrFussel I can confirm that max_lag goes to 1.2 secs after a few secs of aggressive fast flying into ungenerated areas 21:58 IhrFussel Okay same regarding unloaded mapblocks (already generated) it seems... I set client_mapblock_limit to 50 for testing (I hope it affects singleplayer) and tp to 300,10,500, loaded some mapblocks and tp to 500,10,500 ... max_lag jumped to 1.1 21:58 MinetestBot paramat: Dec-18 21:36 UTC during exploration server lag easily exeeds 1 or even 2 in singleplayer 22:01 IhrFussel paramat, did you even check the max_lag after tp to an already generated but unloaded area? They seem to take ~ 1 sec regularly 22:32 Aerozoic Is "max_block_generate_distance = 6" controlled by the client or server? 22:34 IhrFussel Aerozoic, that's the max distance the clients receive, regardless of their own settings AFAIK 22:35 Aerozoic You're not thinking of "max_block_send_distance = 8" are you? 22:36 IhrFussel Ohh sorry...generate distance is also dicated by the server, that's the amount of mapblocks the server generates max for a player 22:36 IhrFussel dictated* 22:37 Aerozoic Ok thanks :) 22:37 IhrFussel Not 100% sure but from what I experienced on my own server with different values it seems to be what I think 22:38 Aerozoic So why is the generate setting less than the send setting? 22:38 IhrFussel Generating map is much more resource hungry 22:38 Aerozoic IN other words, why would you send 8 but only generate 6? 22:39 Aerozoic What good does it do to send those extra 2? 22:39 IhrFussel Cause generate means the map part needs to be created first vs sending which means the map part already exists in the DB 22:40 IhrFussel It's best to just try out some large values and then some tiny ones and decide on a good value to use 22:44 Aerozoic I wonder if those extra 2 act like a buffer in case the client generates faster than i can receive. 22:44 Aerozoic it* 23:09 paramat no i haven't checked max lag after tp, i could be wrong but that seems too long somehow 23:11 sofar Hijiri: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6802 something for you to do during the holidays? seems right up your alley 23:11 sofar :) 23:11 paramat the 2 setting defaults are different because generating world is more intensive than loading world 23:11 IhrFussel Walking doesn't lag the server/singleplayer, cause the engine only needs to generate/load a few mapblocks at a time...but if you are in the middle of nowhere and there are 0 mapblocks loaded the engine has some work to do 23:13 IhrFussel Water areas generate/load much faster compared to mountain terrain...so it definitely depends on the nodes to load 23:15 IhrFussel Someone here mentioned generating 1 mapblock takes ~ 0.1 sec ... that seems right 23:16 Calinou that's quite a lot 23:16 paramat 1 mapchunk 23:16 Calinou try increasing num_emerge_threads 23:17 paramat takes around 100ms on my machine for mgv7 23:17 IhrFussel Chunk then... and how many chunks are loaded when there are 0 around the player? 23:18 paramat but remember core mapgen is in a different thread 23:18 paramat so doesn't cause server lag 23:19 IhrFussel But loading the chunks seems to be as slow or almost as slow 23:19 IhrFussel I tp a few times between unloaded areas with 0 mapblocks in RAM and it took 0.5 - 1.3 secs 23:21 IhrFussel That was in 0.5.0-dev singleplayer 23:22 Fixer just by walking i can bump my max_lag to 3 sometimes 23:22 Fixer rarely 23:22 Fixer it is mostly 1.5-2 23:22 Fixer for new blocks 23:23 IhrFussel But I want someone else to time the "already generated but unloaed mapblocks" 23:24 IhrFussel unloaded* 23:25 IhrFussel For that you need to set the mapblock_limit in advanced settings to something low like 50 ... and then fly around a specific area...then fly a little further and after ~ 50 blocks generated in that direction tp back to the alreay generated but unloaded area 23:26 IhrFussel An you will see that it takes almost as much time as generating the chunks...at least in my case 23:27 IhrFussel And chunk loading happens in the main thread which means causes server lag and can lag all mods 23:29 IhrFussel Now I'm off for the night...if you have any times tested let me know via !tell =) See ya 23:33 paramat chunks aren't loaded, only blocks are loaded