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IRC log for #minetest-hub, 2017-12-01

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Time Nick Message
00:15 twoelk|2 joined #minetest-hub
00:30 garywhite FYI, a Fire OS bug for Amazon tablets is causing sideloads to not work
00:30 CBugDCoder MT is availible for the kindle?
00:34 sofar never tried it myself
00:35 sofar I've sideloaded kodi, though
00:35 Grandolf ive used it on kindle fire
00:35 Grandolf kindle is slow to load
00:38 Wayward_One Heh, good thing I don't update mine :3
00:51 rubenwardy joined #minetest-hub
00:53 rubenwardy o/
01:04 paramat \o
01:06 benrob0329 o/
01:13 bigfoot547 joined #minetest-hub
01:17 shivajiva \o
01:17 bigfoot547 Hey shivajiva :)
01:17 bigfoot547 Apparently I can't join with an ident of 'root' lel
01:18 shivajiva heh seems like a reasonable precaution
01:18 bigfoot547 yeah
01:18 bigfoot547 For a time, I had root@* k-lined on my IRCd
01:18 bigfoot547 I decided it was kinda a bad idea
01:18 shivajiva lol
01:19 bigfoot547 Not my choice to keep people from logging in as root
01:19 bigfoot547 not my bussiness
01:19 bigfoot547 business*
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15:14 tenplus1 joined #minetest-hub
15:14 tenplus1 hi folks
15:15 Krock hi tenplus1
15:15 Fixer tidyman
15:15 tenplus1 hey Krock :)
15:15 tenplus1 hifixer
15:15 tenplus1 how's all ?
15:15 Fixer tenplus1: so how is that chest investigation doing,
15:15 benrob0329 tenplus1: hey tenplus1
15:15 tenplus1 hi benrob o/
15:15 tenplus1 Fixer: will work on that next day am off, too much happening lately
15:16 benrob0329 Pushed that backend update for the TARDIS a few days ago :P
15:16 tenplus1 nice one, working ok ?
15:16 Wayward_One hi all
15:16 tenplus1 hey wayward
15:16 Mr_Pardison sup peeps.
15:17 benrob0329 tenplus1: yees, probably going to push some smaller updates for a bit
15:18 tenplus1 hi pardison
15:18 benrob0329 I keep putting off the interior generation, probably because its a huge undertaking
15:19 tenplus1 dont worry, it'll happen soon enough :D
15:20 benrob0329 So much has to change for it to happen, I've gotta change from a meta to a pos based owner-resolution system
15:20 Mr_Pardison Wayward_One informed me that MT's files are cross compatible so that means I will still have my technic setup that will show me how much time and how many things it takes to producer fuel for the nuclear reactor.
15:22 CBugDCoder hi ten
15:23 tenplus1 hi CBug
15:24 Mr_Pardison afk fire drill (idk why it's happening or if it's real)
15:25 * tenplus1 runs around with foam extinguisher
15:27 * tenplus1 adds blue agave to Xanadu so we can make tequila :D
15:28 CBugDCoder is is possible to use the biome api for lua generated terrain?
15:28 tenplus1 I thnk they are separate,
15:29 CBugDCoder ik the biome api is in C++ but i was hoping to be able to use it on athermensia for biomes in diferent realms
15:30 tenplus1 0.5.0 has new cavegen decorations and the floatlands layer with biomes ready to use
15:30 CBugDCoder something like VM:generate_biomes(placeholder node)
15:31 CBugDCoder cause i am generating the terain in lua but i want to yse the builtin biome features instead of coding my own biome generator
15:31 CBugDCoder use^
15:33 tenplus1 is it something you cant do with builtin mapgen ?
15:33 CBugDCoder yes cause i want to have terain at -10000
15:34 CBugDCoder i would love to be able to use the default mapgen but idk how to do that :/
15:34 tenplus1 look how Caverealms_lite works
15:34 tenplus1 paramat did say he was adding layering, but dunno how it works yet
15:35 CBugDCoder ik i did and have a simple biome gen working but the builtin one is much better XD
15:35 tenplus1 we really need the layering feature to have biomes underground as well and in the air
15:36 FourFire well it looks like my mod wasn't actually crashing Minetest
15:36 tenplus1 hi ff
15:37 FourFire But I've apparently brought a game engine core bug to the attention of the MCL2 dev
15:37 CBugDCoder well underground biomes are existant but not underground landscape
15:37 FourFire hi tenplus1
15:37 tenplus1 what bug?
15:37 Mr_Pardison tequila!
15:38 Mr_Pardison finally  someone gets that.
15:38 FourFire tenplus1, https://hastebin.com/yuvizojate.vbs
15:38 tenplus1 eheheh, mind you the blue agave texture is a bit rough, had to draw that in gimp :D
15:38 Mr_Pardison you got gimped
15:38 tenplus1 oog, that looks a bad 'un
15:39 Mr_Pardison it's a joke we had back in 9th grade in web design when we had to use it.
15:40 FourFire Does anyone know whether there's a way to run mod_data:set_string("String", value) once, upon map save or perhaps on a regular timer?
15:40 FourFire in case of crash
15:41 tenplus1 use globaltimer
15:41 tenplus1 that way you can run it every nth second or so
15:41 FourFire I currently have it running in ABMs which run multiple times per second, and I think this reduces stability
15:42 FourFire where is globaltimer documented?
15:42 tenplus1 finding link
15:43 Jordach trying to rotate a node with facedir
15:43 tenplus1 https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L2520
15:43 Jordach doesn't seem to work when given a proper 3d direction
15:44 Jordach minetest.dir_to_facedir({x=-1,y= 0,z= 0},true) does not when using set_node param2
15:49 Jordach even with a get_look_dir() doesn't work inside an on_use
15:51 tenplus1 hi Jordach, am surprised it doesnt work... so long as player obj is supplied it should
15:51 Jordach it's from on_use (itemstack, user, pointed_thing)
16:04 benrob0329 FourFire: why not just save directly to mod_storage?
16:04 FourFire benrob0329, I am right now
16:04 tenplus1 what is it that you are saving at regular intervals ff ?
16:05 FourFire But I want to see if I increase performance and reduce crash rates by dong it this way
16:06 FourFire tenplus1, 11 variables which update quite frequently
16:06 tenplus1 ah okie
16:06 FourFire how often depends on things in game, but can be up to once every 0.01 second
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16:09 benrob0329 FourFire: I feel like that's too much probing for sanity's sake
16:09 benrob0329 does it need to be updated that much? wouldn't 1/s be enough?
16:10 FourFire benrob0329, tell me how many flops does the following function use: mod_data:set_string("String", (tonumber(mod_data:getstring) + 1))
16:11 FourFire compared to: string = string + 1, mod_data:set_string("String", string)
16:11 FourFire ?
16:11 benrob0329 well, it parses the json file, reads the string, converts is to a number (which can be done with get/set_int) then adds 1, then writes the json file
16:12 FourFire if I'm running this 100 times per second, I get the feeling it's going to consume some CPU power
16:12 FourFire Now, what I'm proposing to do is only: string = string + 1
16:12 benrob0329 I mean you can use variables as a buffer, but I feel like the problem is with how often you need to probe this
16:13 FourFire 100 times per second, and then only once every three minutes or so do mod_data:set_string("String", string)
16:13 benrob0329 would it be that bad if it only updated 1/second, with bigger jumps in between updates?
16:13 FourFire no, every update is an increment of 1
16:14 FourFire but the writing to sotrage can happen in big jumps, yes
16:14 benrob0329 I suppose I don't understand how energy is used
16:14 FourFire Like i said, I've got 11 different variables which work in this way, energy is one of them
16:14 FourFire energy is consumed on a per ABM basis, not as a function of time
16:15 Fixer upcoming minecraft will have kelp and coral, gotta remove that from minetest_game >_>
16:15 benrob0329 I still feel like this is bad design if it requires constant updating hundreds of times a second, but very well
16:15 benrob0329 Fixer: We were first :^)
16:15 CBugDCoder we had it first so we can keep it :)
16:15 FourFire it's my first programming, I'm trying to reduce the burden
16:16 tenplus1 can you paste your current ABM into pastebin and show me ff ?
16:16 FourFire tenplus1, you can see my entire mod if you like
16:16 tenplus1 okie
16:17 Fixer "Fish[3], finally, is not only an item, but also a mob. Cod, salmon, puffer fish, clownfish and even more species of tropical fish will be added. Any player will be able to catch a fish in a bucket, and it will not despawn anymore after release, allowing to create aquariums at home."
16:17 CBugDCoder ten i am working on a hub mod for LoS and am making teleporter pads is playerplus on_walkover good for them or would node timers be better?
16:17 FourFire tenplus1, https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachme​nts/369123175583186964/385648764054​011915/FourFire_nano_mod_1.0.0.7z
16:19 tenplus1 abm's only run every 1 second or more... 0.1 isnt a valid time
16:20 tenplus1 wow, you have a LOT of abm's
16:21 FourFire You say that, but ingame I experience the ABMs working faster than 1 per second
16:21 tenplus1 do mr a favour, give me the gist of what this mod actually does
16:21 tenplus1 *me
16:21 FourFire It's an implementation of a cellular automata in 3 dimensions
16:21 FourFire The standard node, node_grey spawns rarely in topsoil
16:22 tenplus1 so it grows naturally depending on which node it's near ?
16:22 FourFire if you mine it, you get one drop, 9 drops become one original node, and nine nodes become a control node
16:22 Mr_Pardison joined #minetest-hub
16:22 FourFire you can place caol ore or coal blocks next to a node_grey and it will eat the block
16:23 FourFire spreading for coal ore, not spreading for coalblock
16:23 FourFire this gives all node_grey a pool of energy which they then consume to spread, meanwhile eating other nodes
16:24 FourFire Ore nodes, as well as sand, clay & gravel when eaten, add to iterating counters
16:24 tenplus1 and why the counters ? what do they provide to the ore ?
16:24 tenplus1 the node_grey ?
16:24 FourFire energy is consumed and the contents of those nodes may be regained by placing a chest directly above a control node
16:25 benrob0329 FourFire: would a node timer work? started on place?
16:25 FourFire metals are "smelted" to bars, and blocks
16:26 FourFire not because these are global values which just need to be updated upon multiple node actions
16:26 tenplus1 so once a chest is placed on a control node the counters can be used to place items inside /
16:27 FourFire tenplus1, the counters add up how many ore nodes of a given type have been eaten and "smelted" this is so that the player can get those smelted items back with the chest above the control node
16:27 FourFire yes, try it out yourself in creative
16:27 FourFire further, there's a third kind of block, nano_white
16:27 FourFire this is supposed to be white-hot burning nano
16:28 FourFire if you set fire to nano_grey it catches on fire and is replaced by nano_white, this rapidly spreads
16:28 tenplus1 so long as it has eatable ores nearby ?
16:29 tenplus1 catch_up = true is going to seriously lag servers
16:29 tenplus1 I'd set this to false
16:29 FourFire this is the control method nano_white either disappears, or spawns either stone, ore or gravel
16:29 FourFire That's supposed to be on true for a reason
16:29 tenplus1 if catching up and somehow it has to update 800 nodes at one point in time the server could stall
16:30 FourFire if your node_grey spread to far, you just set one on fire and they will be "burnt out" relatively wuickly
16:30 FourFire That
16:30 FourFire s true
16:31 Darcidride_ joined #minetest-hub
16:31 tenplus1 hi Darcidride_
16:34 tenplus1 so far it has updated 7000 nodes +
16:34 tenplus1 this mod on a server would be a nightmare
16:35 tenplus1 will look into it and see if it can be optimized
16:46 FourFire tenplus1, what is the average server hardware in the minetest community?
16:46 sofar is it abm based?
16:46 FourFire sofar, link to my mod above if curious
16:46 tenplus1 hi sofar... and yeh it's all abm based
16:46 sofar well abm's are the worst way to do things CPU wise
16:47 tenplus1 you could merge many of the abm's into a single one...
16:47 sofar convert it to use node timers instead
16:55 CBugDCoder tenplus1 i am working on a hub mod for LoS and am making teleporter pads is playerplus on_walkover good for them or would node timers be better?
16:56 tenplus1 if you use playerplus you could easily use on_walkover for tp pads
16:57 CBugDCoder ok thx :)
16:59 tenplus1 especially if they are placed specifically by server owner and players can only use them, not place them
17:03 CBugDCoder yes they are going to be i wont even have them in the creative inv
17:03 tenplus1 sweet, on_walkover is perfect then :)
17:04 CBugDCoder kk and probbly less resource intensive then timers since they will be loaded 99.99% of the time :)
17:04 tenplus1 you could have an admin tool to SET coords inside teleport block which keeps it light so node contains nothing but coords
17:05 CBugDCoder right actually i will be setting to a game name string but ittle work the same
17:06 tenplus1 :P
17:06 tenplus1 I think on_walkover should be in minetest itself... is too handy not to be
17:06 CBugDCoder and ill have checkpoiint blocks which will have no data XD
17:07 tenplus1 gotta check it when you've finished... sounds interesting :D
17:07 CBugDCoder yes on_walkover should be in core
17:07 ThomasMonroe you could check out the spawn as it is atm
17:07 ThomasMonroe :P
17:09 tenplus1 :P
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17:20 sofar on_walkover isn't necessarily more efficient than node timers
17:20 tenplus1 if playerplus is already running then on_walkover is already in use already
17:21 tenplus1 why add nodetimers on top of that... so yes... it is more efficient
17:21 sofar iterating over all logged in players and doing the lookups for that also has a cost
17:21 tenplus1 playerplus already uses the same node lookup for many things BEFORE checking on_walkover...  it's already cached beforehand
17:22 FourFire Is this the process of software bloat?
17:23 tenplus1 not at all... playerplus is optimized to check once beneath the player every second and uses that single lookup for many things
17:23 FourFire People with varying levels of knowledge arguing over what is necessary and then slowly but surely conceding to more and more features used only once
17:23 FourFire or rarely
17:23 sofar tenplus1: it still derefs minetest.registered_nodes for every pos every player is standing on, every interval
17:24 FourFire until Excel requirestens of thousands of times more ram and computing power just to do what it did originally?
17:24 benrob0329 tenplus1: is there a playerplus script I can use that will just add on_walkover if the mod is not installed?
17:24 tenplus1 derefs ??? explain sofar
17:24 sofar https://github.com/tenplus1/play​erplus/blob/master/init.lua#L63
17:24 tenplus1 yes ben, it's at the end of the playerplus init.lua
17:26 tenplus1 it runs the registered on_walk_over that has been assigned to THAT particular node... what's wrong with that ?
17:26 sofar it does a table lookup over the entire list of registered nodes
17:26 sofar that's not a cheap thing
17:27 sofar I'm not saying it's a bad thing
17:27 benrob0329 Only do it once, putting the ones that do in a secondary table?
17:27 tenplus1 ? that one check is NOT expensive
17:27 sofar I'm saying that performance wise, it's not the most efficient thing in many cases
17:27 tenplus1 it looks at that exact node table for a function and if found will run it...
17:27 Mr_Pardison I shall have my other computer (that I normally use) ready for use on or before Monday.
17:28 Mr_Pardison yay!
17:28 sofar plus this does give a 1.0 second latency on pressure plates
17:28 sofar which may be 0.1 second, too, so it's inconsistent for users
17:29 sofar anyway, I don't really like that method myself, for various reasons
17:29 sofar nodetimers have other pros and cons
17:29 FourFire tenplus1, will there be any noticable impact if I make a 64x64 floor of pressureplates in the basement of my castle?
17:30 tenplus1 my point is that if playerplus is already in use and checking what the player stands on for speed changes or other playerplus features, you may as well use it for teleport blocks
17:30 FourFire because players will do this kind of thing
17:30 tenplus1 ff, no...
17:30 benrob0329 sofar: how would you impliment a pressure plate type thing? (Legitimate question)
17:30 tenplus1 it'll only ever check the current block the player stands on top of with on_walkover... but with nodetimers it'll check every single block's nodetimer
17:31 sofar depends if I want a low latency one or that isn't a factor
17:31 benrob0329 Low latency is best
17:31 shivajiva ^
17:31 sofar then it's nodetimers hands down
17:31 tenplus1 hi shiva
17:32 shivajiva hi tenplus, everyone o/
17:32 Mr_Pardison o/ shivajiva
17:32 benrob0329 sofar: do we have a player radius checker or something?
17:32 sofar the core handles nodetimers without escaping to lua unless needed, and entity checks are usually cheap, so there is almost no lookup overhead for things like pressure plate events
17:32 CBugDCoder hi shivajiva
17:32 sofar yes, entities can be searched in a region
17:34 sofar if you have many players, nodetimers will also benefit if they are all in the same region
17:34 sofar if they're far apart, then the other method may help
17:34 sofar btw
17:35 shivajiva interesting, now I have to make one to see the gain
17:35 sofar if you do a globalstep, and then use a time method to only run every N steps, you're silly and should learn to use minetest.after() instead
17:35 sofar a globalstep is for doing something every step
17:35 sofar use minetest.after if you're NOT doing something every step
17:36 shivajiva in a hub scenario where the pads are all in clusters in close proximity it should be visibly better
17:36 sofar scale becomes a factor at that point
17:36 benrob0329 What is one step, time wise?
17:36 sofar 30 players in a room with 4 teleport pads
17:37 sofar do you want 30 checks or 4 checks?
17:37 tenplus1 I already mentioned that that single check is used for many other things in playerplus itself... it's not a wasted check
17:38 sofar benrob0329: depends on the server tick interval, default 0.09sec
17:40 sofar tenplus1: that's only relevant if the other parts are used. And the scale still matters as well.
17:40 sofar but, sure, this isn't a criminal piece of code or anything
17:40 tenplus1 and the playerplus checks are global so other mods can use it to save checks also
17:41 Jordach https://jordach.net/images/sunvdmuqbsiacqwqa.png
17:41 Jordach tenplus1, got a proper model for my automation pipes
17:41 tenplus1 ooh nice/// looks good
17:42 tenplus1 what can it do so far ?
17:42 tenplus1 anything new added
17:42 sofar ugly nodeboxes :)
17:44 Jordach that's no nodebox
17:44 shivajiva only issue with that is the dependency I need once I coded with those checks tenplus, I guess that's why you'd like to see it incorporated :)
17:44 Jordach https://youtu.be/jU5HkFtyBh8
17:44 Jordach tenplus1, ^
17:44 sofar does it stick 1px into the brick block?
17:44 tenplus1 shiva: yeah, if it were included in game already and checked nodes around player then it'd be faster and global for mods to make use of
17:45 Jordach sofar, it also tiles perfectly
17:45 sofar tenplus1: one issue is that other mod writers may not want 1.0 second interval steps
17:45 sofar someone else will want better
17:45 sofar e.g. xdecor has a faster interval for its pressure plates
17:46 tenplus1 true, will make that configurable
17:46 sofar but that will change all your code to run at a different interval
17:46 sofar and you want your movement code to be consistent, I assume
17:46 sfan5 Jordach: it looks like you're reinventing buildcraft
17:46 tenplus1 depends on feature,
17:48 tenplus1 since mt engine checks what player is standing on every single step, that's why I wanted it included in engine, then it could work very fast but reduce checks to minimum
17:48 sofar that would be preferred
17:48 shivajiva ^
17:49 tenplus1 from what I saw in code, it checks from under players feet up to above head... so 4x node checks per tick
17:49 sofar it may require some creative thinking about the callback though
17:49 tenplus1 store that in a global var, let mods access it and the game will fly along when mods adapt
17:49 sofar global var?
17:49 sofar nah
17:49 tenplus1 global table
17:49 sofar that won't fly
17:50 tenplus1 player[name].standing_on   .foot_level   .head_level
17:50 tenplus1 would be easy
17:50 sofar player:get_node_table() you mean
17:50 sofar stupid to make a global table
17:50 sofar just make a method to get the data
17:51 sofar but, even simpler would be to make an API that is event based
17:51 benrob0329 on_walkover(function(entity, pos, dir))
17:51 sofar either to the player object, or to the node def
17:51 tenplus1 if get_node_table is easier then yes
17:51 tenplus1 so long as mod can read what it needs superquick without having to check itself
17:51 sofar global tables would be terrible api design
17:53 tenplus1 I used global tables for simplicity to see if it all worked.. but yeah, a player:get_node_table() would be safer
17:53 tenplus1 will write a function for that
17:54 sofar I'd suspect some pair of on_entity_move_in(pos, object) and on_entity_move_out(pos, object) are the best possible combination
17:54 sofar I do not think you continuously want to generate events while the entity is at a position and doesn't move
17:55 benrob0329 Global tables are a bad idea for storing information :-)
17:55 sofar there are only 2 relevant events, so to speak
17:55 tenplus1 sounds like a plan... step on step off functions sound better and more configurable
17:55 tenplus1 eheheh ben, I know... just testing for now
17:55 sofar so these events can also fire if an item is dropped, for instance
17:56 sofar which would be really handy for hoppers and stuff
17:56 sofar or for lava to burn items
17:56 sofar you could even improve fire spread this way
17:56 sofar which sounds weird, but think about it
17:56 sofar instead of ABM's, you could make fire ember entities
17:57 tenplus1 it's a feature we are lacking in mt itself and does need some work to  implement properly
17:57 sofar they randomly shoot out of fire nodes
17:57 tenplus1 been thinking about this for a looooong time
17:57 sofar then events cause the spread
17:58 benrob0329 sofar: or fire is a node state, which spawns particles :-)
17:58 benrob0329 minetest.register_flame()
17:58 tenplus1 the particle spawner pull to link all spawner particles into 1 draw seems nice
17:59 sofar hijiri's pr?
18:00 tenplus1 I think it's his, would need to check... but yeah, it improves particle performance
18:00 tenplus1 and we need that too
18:04 tenplus1 I thnk that the ;get_node_list() would improve server performance more than csm would... my opinioni
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18:05 tenplus1 hi nrz
18:10 Jordach sfan5, notice there;s a few key differences
18:10 sfan5 and those are? :D
18:10 Jordach mover's can extract and insert certain items intelligently
18:11 Jordach they know the difference between the fuel slot and src slot
18:11 FourFire how do I lengthen the interval of minetest.register_globalstep(func(dtime)) to several seconds?
18:11 Jordach sfan5, second mention, you can put pipes like this: | | and have them not honeycomb
18:12 Jordach or form stupid crossroads
18:12 Jordach unlike shitty pipeworks, it doesnt need to override things
18:12 tenplus1 use dtime...e.g...     define timer before globalstep and 1st line inside have     timer = timer + dtime ; if timer < 1.0 then return end ; timer = 0
18:15 tenplus1 so depending on placement of pipe depends which "inventory" it checks... kinda like hoppers ?
18:18 Jordach like it, but has a special rule
18:19 tenplus1 kewl
18:19 Jordach movers will not pull from their redside onto a greenside
18:19 Jordach they can only put into others after it has checked the red side
18:34 Mr_Pardison joined #minetest-hub
18:44 Mr_Pardison Is a spike in lag normal when a player connects or disconnects from a server normal?
18:44 tenplus1 depends on mods loaded and what it's up to
18:47 Mr_Pardison 3d_armor, 3d_armor_ip, abriglass, abripanes, abritorch, areas, bags, bakedclay, beds, bewarethedark, boats, bones, bucket, builtin_item, castle, caverealms, creative, darklands, default, dmobs, doors, dye, ethereal, farming, fire, flowers, ghost, give_initial_stuff, goblins, handholds, homedecor_light, hopper, inventory_plus, irc, irc_commands, jbo
18:47 Mr_Pardison n, killme, mapfix, mobs, mobs_animal, mobs_monster, moreplants, nyancat, protector, real_torch, sauth, sban
18:47 CBugDCoder joined #minetest-hub
18:47 Mr_Pardison those are the list when running the cmd mods irc command.
18:47 Mr_Pardison these are from d/l.
19:07 ImNotHere joined #minetest-hub
19:08 tenplus1 hi ImNotHere
19:08 Megaf Hi tenplus1
19:08 tenplus1 o/ :P
19:09 Mr_Pardison I see that waving (either o/ or \o) has been taken up as a way of greeting someone.
19:09 Mr_Pardison fancy.
19:09 tenplus1 it's handy :P  aaaaaaah pun
19:10 Mr_Pardison >.<
19:10 Krock o/ Mr_Pardison
19:10 Mr_Pardison \o Krock
19:10 tenplus1 hey Krock :P
19:11 Krock It's been used as a greeting long before this channel was created
19:11 tenplus1 yeh, irc has spawned many ascii alternatives :)
19:11 Krock 2nd hello today, tenplus1
19:11 Mr_Pardison I took it up.
19:11 Jordach i find node timers useless compared to a rock solid ABM
19:11 tenplus1 waaaay before emojii
19:11 Jordach node timers will stop working even with return true
19:11 Jordach if the server crashes
19:11 Krock IRC - The Movie
19:12 Jordach UNO: The Movie
19:12 Jordach (that's a real thing)
19:12 tenplus1 nooooooooo
19:12 tenplus1 Firefox vs Chrome the movie
19:12 Krock yeeeeeee
19:12 tenplus1 brb
19:12 Krock The Ultimative Browser Battle: Firefox vs Chrome vs Shitty Toilet
19:13 sofar Jordach: that doesn't make sense
19:13 Jordach sofar, in my testing
19:13 Megaf Mr_Pardison: o/
19:13 Jordach any time the server crashed due to bad logic, return true would not self restart
19:13 sofar Jordach: if the server crashes and doesn't save the mapblock, doesn't it then load the old mapblock?
19:13 Mr_Pardison \o/
19:13 Jordach sofar, not even that
19:13 Megaf \o Jordach
19:13 Jordach sofar, secondly, it behaved strangely
19:14 Jordach sometimes it'd refuse to even properly call on_timer() some times
19:14 Jordach even with print statements meowing with a digit
19:14 sofar bug number?
19:14 Jordach not listed
19:14 sofar then it downt exist
19:14 Mr_Pardison "mewoing"?
19:14 Jordach but it's visible in 20a85d7
19:14 sofar repro code?
19:15 Jordach crash the server when running a on_timer() call ending in return true
19:15 Jordach make the timer one second or similar
19:15 Jordach then crash it inside the on_timer call
19:15 sofar you mean the on_timer callback causing the crash?
19:15 Jordach yes
19:15 sofar ah, yeah, sure
19:15 Jordach that pisses me off entirely
19:15 Jordach you could LBM it, but that's unfun
19:15 Jordach when an ABM does the same thing with profiling
19:16 sofar but crashing on_timer() is a developer issue
19:16 Jordach (i've found the abm to even provide a strange mechanic related to how MT loops through x, y and z
19:16 sofar not a player issue
19:17 Jordach don't nodetimers survive being unloaded?
19:19 sofar yes, they do
19:20 Jordach handily, my logic for item movement only requires pos
19:20 Jordach the rest is done magically
19:20 Jordach (and currently hardcoded for certain items due to how slots are handled)
19:21 Jordach i've found in testing, that minetest.rotate_and_place() is more useful than .rotate_node()
19:21 Jordach because sneaking shouldn't make it do silly things, especially when that node has a formspec or on_place() action
19:22 Mr_Pardison joined #minetest-hub
19:42 IhrFussel joined #minetest-hub
19:42 tenplus1 hi fussel
19:44 IhrFussel Hi there... regarding the newest issue on github I already told you that the GUI scaling is just wrong on Android screens ... maybe tablets can display it fine but not cheaper phones with 4" screens ... I suggest you to set the default gui_sclaing on Android to 0.9 or 0.85
19:44 Grandolf joined #minetest-hub
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19:44 IhrFussel 2nd newest*
19:44 tenplus1 hi Grandolf
19:46 IhrFussel Wait...it's the other way round, menu is too small so larger scaling is needed... but on some devices the menu would be too large to navigate then... I guess we need a resolution check before deciding the scale
20:12 Jordach rubenwardy, might be time to get rid of device specific pixel scaling and use 1:1 pixel ratio for offsets and 0-100% positioning for anything else
20:12 Jordach IhrFussel, ^
20:14 tenplus1 noticed this issue earlier: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6720 ... may have to change builtin_item to using "upright_sprite" to save pixel redraw for every item
20:19 Krock but rotated items look nicer
20:19 tenplus1 they do, yes... but with so many dropped items in a world and the drawing of every single pixel as a box, it must cause some amazing graphical lag eventually
20:20 Jordach tenplus1, actually
20:20 Jordach all you need is a strip rectangle with pixel co-ordinates from say 1,16
20:20 Jordach then use alpha to hide the real pixels
20:22 Jordach https://jordach.net/images/kmhbbcgsyktebqfijx.png this node is actually a b3d model, and not a placed item
20:23 paramat joined #minetest-hub
20:23 benrob0329 Jordach: iirc that model was not optimized, it had a lot of inner faces
20:23 tenplus1 hi paramat
20:23 benrob0329 Hi paramat
20:25 benrob0329 Oy, that's painful
20:25 benrob0329 Dropped items..ehh
20:25 Mr-Pardison shivajiva: issue on d/l about players being able to join with the exact same name as an admin but a different spelling. Have had this issue twice already.
20:25 Mr-Pardison any idea what it could be?
20:25 tenplus1 I may change to "upright_sprite" for now and see if it makes any improvement on Xanadu, as a test
20:25 Jordach ./privs <player_name>
20:25 Jordach usually gives them away
20:26 benrob0329 tenplus1: should still rotate
20:26 benrob0329 For that matter, we could change it to be a one-face animated model
20:26 tenplus1 maybe, will check
20:26 benrob0329 Make it bounce up and down :D
20:27 Jordach benrob0329, fun fact
20:27 Jordach that can be a quad with a UV containing a row of pixels
20:27 Jordach a single quad, as UV doesn't give a shit about tri count
20:29 benrob0329 Jordach: what can be
20:29 Jordach benrob0329, what i mean is, those faces are likely 16x1 pixel quads with two tris instead of 16*2 tris
20:30 Jordach (eg, 1 quad per pixel instead of 1 quad per row / column)
20:31 benrob0329 I still have no idea what your talking about
20:31 Megaf Jordach: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ks3ucumilU
20:31 Jordach benrob0329, you use blender right
20:31 Jordach make a plane in blender
20:31 Jordach give that plane a z-transparency or similar with a texture with alpha
20:31 paramat CBugDCoder you can use core ore and decoration generation in a lua mapgen
20:31 Jordach no extra faces needed
20:32 paramat but not biome generation
20:32 benrob0329 Jordach: that doesnt solve the 3D effect
20:32 Jordach benrob0329, faces will still be inside the model
20:33 Jordach 1 quad per pixel or not
20:33 Jordach you cannot solve that with how it's generated
20:33 paramat see https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L2824
20:33 benrob0329 Jordach: then you'll need more models for each resolution
20:33 paramat use those after 'set data' but before 'calc lighting' and 'write to map'
20:33 Jordach benrob0329, no
20:34 Jordach for the sides the cover the entire face
20:34 Jordach eg, from the front
20:34 CBugDCoder ik i knew that for a while
20:34 Jordach you just use a single plane with a texture
20:34 benrob0329 Right, the edges though
20:34 Jordach the insides need to be 1 quad with the UV mapped from edge to edge x image size
20:34 CBugDCoder but is a function for biomes in the plans?
20:38 tenplus1 nite all o/
20:38 CBugDCoder night
20:38 tenplus1 left #minetest-hub
20:47 paramat no plans yet
20:47 paramat would be nice
20:47 paramat for walk over, it might be close, see https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/issues/247#issuecomment-332812987
20:55 CBugDCoder yay cant wait :)
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21:08 FourFire Okay I'm confused, what do I need to do to get this code to run: https://hastebin.com/solidakega.pl
21:09 lisac hey is there any way to place an item_image in HUD?
21:09 FourFire the point is to have a recurring timer every 80 seconds which executes all of those commands
21:10 Krock FourFire, an example: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game​/blob/master/mods/player_api/api.lua#L99
21:10 Krock move your timer inside the new defined function
21:10 Krock *timer variable
21:10 Krock lisac, only if you have the HUD ID
21:10 Mr_Pardison joined #minetest-hub
21:11 Krock create a HUD, if there's none to alter.
21:11 lisac Krock, is HUD a formspec?
21:11 lisac that is, can I place formspec elements in HUD?
21:11 Krock no, it's nothing like a formspec
21:11 Mr_Pardison limited time, just saying hi.
21:12 lisac item_image is a formspec element
21:12 lisac hey Mr_Pardison.
21:12 Krock it uses a different API to add the images and doesn't have the same features
21:12 Mr_Pardison Hello lisac
21:12 Krock lisac, but you can still add images to the HUD
21:12 lisac item_image makes a 3D image from a node name
21:12 lisac like, a cobblestone from default:cobble.
21:12 lisac it's what I'm looking to do :)
21:13 Krock oh I see
21:13 FourFire Krock, like this? https://hastebin.com/posebegebu.pl
21:13 Krock not sure if that exists et
21:13 Krock *yet
21:13 Krock FourFire, how do you define a function? just a simple function?
21:14 Krock let me give you a short example
21:14 Mr_Pardison shivajiva: respond to my message on Monday when I am back online
21:14 Mr_Pardison g2g cya
21:14 Mr_Pardison left #minetest-hub
21:14 FourFire [Spits the result here] = Function(does something to this number)
21:19 lisac FourFire, https://pastebin.com/P866W2K7
21:20 Krock https://pastebin.com/bPDUXV8A
21:20 Krock ^ FourFire
21:20 lisac Krock, a minute too slow. :)
21:20 lisac though your example is longer.
21:21 Krock ^^
21:22 Krock corrected a few typos now.. I hope it helps. Otherwise you should really consider to look at the Lua tutorial for once
21:23 Krock -> http://tylerneylon.com/a/learn-lua/
21:24 Krock the font is insane big so even blind people can read it
21:27 Aello Hello! New to the Modding API, what should I do to access the "default.xx" things properly without errors?
21:27 Aello I was trying "sounds = default.node_sound_leaves_defaults()"
21:27 Aello Thank you!
21:28 paramat what was the error message?
21:29 lisac Aello, did you include 'default' in your depends.txt?
21:29 lisac I'm also not sure if default stuff is local
21:29 paramat ^
21:30 paramat anything in 'default.' namespace is global
21:31 Aello I did not. Sorry for the delay, was checking the debug message, the file is huge. The message was like; "Undeclared global variable "default" accessed at *location*"
21:32 Aello I will include it and ask if have any issue, Thank you! :)
21:32 paramat try depending on default
21:32 Aello Got it :)
21:34 * Shara wonders what Aello is working on.
21:34 lisac Shara, I'd say a Minetest mod. :)
21:34 Shara My wondering is more specific. :)
21:35 * Aello hides. Secret! Also I am behind the schedule. :)
21:36 Shara Hehehe :)
21:37 * Aello bows. :)
21:37 Shara No worries.
21:37 Krock Shara, you broke the chain of :)
21:38 Shara To make up for it :) :)
21:38 Shara Does that help? :)
21:38 benrob0329 Always :)
21:38 Shara Yay :)
21:57 paramat :)
21:59 Raven262 Hello everyone :)
21:59 Raven262 Its hard keeping this smile up, but eh :)
21:59 Shara Has to be done now :)
22:02 benrob0329 Krock: dang, I never realized how flexible Lua tables are :)
22:02 benrob0329 They open up some interesting possibilities :)
22:02 benrob0329 Like metatables :)
22:04 Krock you'll need metatables if you plan to add something like objects or classes
22:04 Raven262 He did it^
22:04 Raven262 You broke the chain, Krock.
22:04 benrob0329 Do we have metatables set up for pos + pos ?
22:04 Krock damn it
22:04 benrob0329 Because adding positions without destructing the tables would be really useful
22:05 Krock no, as vectors are simply a table
22:05 benrob0329 Dangit
22:05 benrob0329 Would be useful though
22:05 Krock indeed, same for pos == pos or pos * n
22:06 Shara Krock: now we will all be :(
22:06 benrob0329 Krock: user-made vectors would need to be setmetatable-ed to work by themselves
22:07 benrob0329 Against a MT created vector though it would be fine (metatables call by first argument)
22:08 sniper338 joined #minetest-hub
22:12 sniper338 joined #minetest-hub
22:18 Megaf joined #minetest-hub
22:20 Megaf Good to be back on Quassel
22:20 Megaf Thanks Raspberry Pi for hosting my client
22:20 sniper338 joined #minetest-hub
22:21 * Megaf expects thumbs up from Calinou
22:22 Calinou thumbs north-west-up
22:23 Calinou pitch 87°, yaw 314°
22:23 * Calinou hides
22:24 * Megaf will accept that
22:25 benrob0329 Krock: I'm having a lot of "Oohhh!" Moments while reading this :P
22:26 benrob0329 Lua is a lot cooler than I thought 5 minutes ago
22:26 Krock except that it starts with 1
22:26 benrob0329 Meh
22:26 benrob0329 I can get used to that
22:27 benrob0329 Just like I can get used to tables as being the be-all end-all of data types
22:28 benrob0329 I mean its like someone took Lisp's concept of "Everything is a list" but made it an array and ran into the county with it
22:30 Krock Lisp without the parentheses
22:31 benrob0329 Just curly brackets :^)
22:46 Megaf This is a test
22:46 Megaf Test ........ˆ
22:47 benrob0329 Test success?
23:04 paramat *sigh*
23:06 rubenwardy paramat, I wonder if dsohler has internal conflict, given he hates assholery
23:06 rubenwardy oh geez, comma gore
23:06 rubenwardy oh, geez comma, gore,
23:09 paramat heh
23:09 paramat maybe best to not delete his comments so we have evidence
23:09 rubenwardy yeah
23:09 rubenwardy I deleted them before as they were offtopic and taking up the chat
23:10 rubenwardy and to try and dissuade response from other people
23:10 rubenwardy but that worked out swimmingly
23:10 rubenwardy plus they were plain rude and unnecessary
23:11 paramat could always lock topic and start a duplicate, keeps evidence
23:11 rubenwardy nah
23:12 paramat indeed might not help much
23:14 Fixer swimmingly?
23:15 paramat as in a sarcastic 'badly'
23:15 paramat or rather
23:15 paramat a sarcastic 'smoothly'
23:15 Fixer Definition of swimmingly: very well : splendidly the event went swimmingly
23:17 Fixer Wuzzy has nice ability to find lots of bugs
23:17 Fixer including weird ones
23:17 Fixer like dropped hands... wtf
23:17 paramat random hands happened to me in 0.4.3, funny bug
23:19 paramat i would rejoin a world and a dozen hands would appear in mid air nearby and fall
23:21 Fixer daaaaaaaaaamn, vanessas servers are on 0.4.16 that means i will not test that cache pr in my cases
23:22 Fixer 6 minutes wasted, but maybe patch will apply to 0.4.16, doubt it
23:29 Megaf watching Formula E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGq2lFEpZiM
23:29 Megaf Live ^
23:29 Megaf benrob0329: positive, test good
23:33 Fixer SimCity Spectrum 48k
23:33 Fixer :O
23:52 benrob0329 Krock: would vector metatable things go in builtin or in the engine itself?
23:55 sofar unless it requires some C++, it would be in builtin
23:57 benrob0329 sofar: I wouldn't think so, but i'm not sure how one would set metatable stuffs for every vector to come out of the api
23:58 sofar vector already is entirely lua
23:59 benrob0329 Ok, this might be somehing I can tackle then
23:59 sofar does it make sense to do for every vector? it gets used a lot

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