| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:06 |
|
paramat joined #minetest-hub |
| 00:53 |
|
CWz joined #minetest-hub |
| 01:18 |
FourFire |
How do I detect whether a block is on fire, (for an ABM)? |
| 01:18 |
FourFire |
When my mod is done it's gonna be a killer on the CPU |
| 01:19 |
FourFire |
I'll have to figure out how to actually program like a real coder and optimize all my functions |
| 01:25 |
FourFire |
For now, I made it activate using flowing lava. |
| 01:53 |
paramat |
set 'neighbour' to fire:basic_flame ? |
| 01:53 |
paramat |
*neighbors |
| 01:54 |
FourFire |
thanks paramat |
| 01:57 |
benrob0329 |
paramat: any way of using the mapgen to generate corridors without the use of schematics? |
| 01:57 |
FourFire |
I'm having trouble with this ABM: https://hastebin.com/ufapohihic.lua |
| 01:58 |
FourFire |
Lines 15/16 seem to be crashing for some reason |
| 01:59 |
benrob0329 |
I suppose on_generate with vmanip and some math would work |
| 02:03 |
paramat |
FourFire that's unreadable code, work on indents and line length. are you missing the final '})' to close the ABM registration? |
| 02:04 |
FourFire |
nope if I comment out those two lines it runs |
| 02:04 |
FourFire |
I'll work on indents |
| 02:05 |
benrob0329 |
FourFire: you need to let your code breath man |
| 02:05 |
benrob0329 |
Put some spacing lines in every now and again :-) |
| 02:05 |
FourFire |
I could put it all on one line and it would run |
| 02:05 |
paramat |
benrob yes use LVM in on generate with some maths, just like a lua mapgen works |
| 02:05 |
FourFire |
the formatting is only for the sake of the programmer, correct? |
| 02:06 |
paramat |
no heh |
| 02:06 |
benrob0329 |
FourFire: and everyone who comes after him |
| 02:06 |
FourFire |
the programmer, yes. |
| 02:06 |
paramat |
for reviewers and anyone who wants to read and understand it |
| 02:06 |
FourFire |
Okay, how about you fix the formatting for that block so I can see how it should be done? |
| 02:06 |
paramat |
erm .. |
| 02:07 |
FourFire |
and I'll fix my mod to that standard |
| 02:07 |
paramat |
you have to learn yourself how to format lua, read MTG files |
| 02:08 |
paramat |
we're not here to do your work for you |
| 02:08 |
FourFire |
That's fine and I can read my code fine, for not having touched programming until this week. |
| 02:08 |
FourFire |
I'll comment it more. |
| 02:11 |
paramat |
remeber to use the 'mapgen object voxelmanip', good example https://github.com/paramat/roadvalleys/blob/master/init.lua#L172 |
| 02:11 |
paramat |
*remember |
| 02:12 |
paramat |
FourFire no surprise you can read your own code, but no one else can |
| 02:12 |
benrob0329 |
FourFire: good luck in a month |
| 02:19 |
FourFire |
paramat, benrob0329 is this any better: https://hastebin.com/eroxumurot.lua |
| 02:19 |
FourFire |
Oh yeah ignore the last line comment, that's a feature I have yet to figure out first. |
| 02:22 |
paramat |
'then' is wrongly placed. lines should be no longer than 80-90 columns (with tab size 4). i still can't read some lines in my browser window due to length |
| 02:23 |
paramat |
best to also paste the closing brackets of the ABM |
| 02:25 |
FourFire |
any idea why line 16 fails to produce a table? |
| 02:26 |
paramat |
well line 16 is a search that only searches one node at 'pos' |
| 02:27 |
paramat |
area wrongly defined |
| 02:27 |
FourFire |
that's true |
| 02:27 |
FourFire |
it's supposed to be the node that the AMB originates from |
| 02:27 |
FourFire |
it's supposed to self destruct/turn into default:stone |
| 02:33 |
FourFire |
hah figured it out, it was the wrong node |
| 02:38 |
paramat |
no need to search for it then, just 'set node' at pos |
| 02:41 |
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ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-hub |
| 03:56 |
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greeter joined #minetest-hub |
| 03:59 |
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neinwhal joined #minetest-hub |
| 04:41 |
FourFire |
well my mod is now published, if rather informally I wonder if anyone will do anything with it: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/369123175583186964/385648764054011915/FourFire_nano_mod_1.0.0.7z |
| 05:45 |
benrob0329 |
FourFire: https://hastebin.com/kolitoyohu.lua |
| 05:45 |
benrob0329 |
something closer to that |
| 05:45 |
benrob0329 |
ofc I use tabs normally but hastebin doesn't do tabs apparently |
| 05:47 |
benrob0329 |
Also discord...just..eww |
| 06:56 |
|
nerzhul joined #minetest-hub |
| 08:00 |
|
CWz joined #minetest-hub |
| 08:57 |
|
Megaf joined #minetest-hub |
| 08:57 |
Megaf |
Greetings folks |
| 08:57 |
Megaf |
I'm very happy so far with Firefox 57, Apache 2 and PHP 7 |
| 09:00 |
Megaf |
Youtube is not working fantastically well on Firefox though |
| 09:12 |
|
tenplus1 joined #minetest-hub |
| 09:12 |
tenplus1 |
hi folks |
| 09:15 |
shivajiva |
Hi tenplus, Megaf |
| 09:15 |
Megaf |
Hi tenplus1 |
| 09:15 |
tenplus1 |
hi Megaf |
| 09:16 |
Megaf |
Hi shivajiva |
| 09:17 |
* shivajiva |
sips hot milk with cinnamon and honey, it's a tad chilly out there today |
| 09:17 |
tenplus1 |
hi shiva... yo got a cold dude ? |
| 09:17 |
|
nerzhul joined #minetest-hub |
| 09:17 |
tenplus1 |
hi nrz |
| 09:18 |
nerzhul |
hi |
| 09:18 |
Amaz |
Hello everyone :) |
| 09:19 |
tenplus1 |
hey amaz |
| 09:25 |
|
Megaf joined #minetest-hub |
| 09:26 |
Megaf |
3C here this morning |
| 09:26 |
tenplus1 |
nice n toasty :)) 0c here |
| 09:26 |
Amaz |
-2C here :) |
| 09:27 |
* tenplus1 |
makes ice at Amaz's house |
| 09:27 |
Megaf |
2C yesterday when I went home from college at 8:50 PM |
| 09:27 |
Megaf |
Amaz, no need to spend money in electricity to chill your food! |
| 09:27 |
Amaz |
Heh :P |
| 09:27 |
Amaz |
Although it does need to be heated to keep it from freezing ;) |
| 09:28 |
Megaf |
tenplus1, I think we should visit Amaz and make some ice cream outside |
| 09:28 |
tenplus1 |
ooh, sounds like a plan |
| 09:29 |
Amaz |
Too cold for icecream :P |
| 09:29 |
Megaf |
Amaz, expect us this weekend |
| 09:29 |
tenplus1 |
it's never too cold for ice cream :D |
| 09:29 |
Megaf |
agreed ^ |
| 09:29 |
Amaz |
xD |
| 09:37 |
tenplus1 |
does new new 0.5 player model support minecraft 1.7 AND 1.8 skins ? |
| 09:39 |
Megaf |
I need ice cream now |
| 09:40 |
|
neinwhal joined #minetest-hub |
| 09:40 |
tenplus1 |
hi neinwhal |
| 09:40 |
|
ShadowNinja joined #minetest-hub |
| 09:40 |
tenplus1 |
hi ShadowNinja |
| 09:41 |
neinwhal |
hey tenplus1 |
| 09:41 |
Megaf |
Is Shadow still alive? |
| 09:42 |
tenplus1 |
hope so :P |
| 09:44 |
shivajiva |
heh no cold, I just like the taste |
| 09:44 |
tenplus1 |
mmm, honey & lemon with ginger sounds nice about now |
| 09:45 |
shivajiva |
ofc it's tainted by the fact the honey is contaminated with pesticide |
| 09:46 |
tenplus1 |
nuuuuuuuuu |
| 09:46 |
shivajiva |
all honey on the planet contains nicotinoids now |
| 09:46 |
tenplus1 |
*shakes fist at pesticides* |
| 09:50 |
shivajiva |
tenplus are you following pr #6718 |
| 09:51 |
tenplus1 |
disable all for csm |
| 09:52 |
shivajiva |
yup |
| 09:52 |
tenplus1 |
+1'd it... we do need a kill switch for csm loading on client... |
| 09:53 |
shivajiva |
this is a mess, why isn't the dev who instigated it providing the support to add the feature |
| 09:54 |
Megaf |
CSM should have never made into the code in the first place |
| 09:54 |
Megaf |
At least not with a way of getting disabled. |
| 09:54 |
Amaz |
CSM shouldn't ever have allowed client provided mods, just server sent mods... |
| 09:55 |
tenplus1 |
csm could have been good if implemented from server only |
| 09:55 |
tenplus1 |
Connect to server -> here's a mod to run client-side -> okie dokie |
| 09:55 |
Megaf |
tenplus1, that's how I thought it would work when we first talked about that long time ago |
| 09:55 |
Amaz |
Yup |
| 09:55 |
tenplus1 |
yeah, but clients are using it to cheat and that makes me sad |
| 09:55 |
Megaf |
I was actually thinking it was a good idea back in the day |
| 09:55 |
sfan5 |
pretty that is also how the plan looked like before work on CSM even started |
| 09:55 |
Megaf |
all heavy stuff could be done client side freeing up server |
| 09:56 |
Megaf |
but man, clients deciding the mods? No, just no. |
| 09:57 |
Megaf |
So my point is, we remove CSM for now from the code, entirely. And we work on a better implementation. In a different branch |
| 09:57 |
tenplus1 |
+100 |
| 09:57 |
tenplus1 |
have 0.5.0 stable and useable and maybe after than 0.5.1 can re-implement a proper working csm |
| 09:59 |
|
neinwhal joined #minetest-hub |
| 10:01 |
tenplus1 |
am still putting faith in 0.5.0 being a huge stepping stone for mt |
| 10:02 |
Megaf |
I copied your text and pasted there https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6699#issuecomment-348140053 |
| 10:02 |
Megaf |
Will remove if you not happy with it |
| 10:03 |
Megaf |
Just thought it could be interesting. |
| 10:03 |
tenplus1 |
das ok :) |
| 10:04 |
Megaf |
Github hiding the nicks because < > |
| 10:04 |
tenplus1 |
ehehe, it knows!!!!! |
| 10:04 |
Megaf |
Fixed |
| 10:04 |
shivajiva |
given it has been included, why isn't the modifications being handled by it's creator, surely he's in the best position to instigate the changes required to disable it |
| 10:04 |
|
VanessaE_ joined #minetest-hub |
| 10:04 |
tenplus1 |
hi Vanessa |
| 10:04 |
Megaf |
shivajiva, any idea who was the creator> |
| 10:04 |
Megaf |
? |
| 10:05 |
sfan5 |
shivajiva: probably since nrz has limited time to spend on MT currently |
| 10:05 |
Megaf |
Ahah, That's why he defends CSM so much |
| 10:05 |
Megaf |
it was his idea |
| 10:06 |
tenplus1 |
nrz, good idea, badly implemented... sorry dude |
| 10:06 |
shivajiva |
so if he had a 10 min conversation with another dev about how to do it...instead he's stood off watching the proceedings |
| 10:06 |
sfan5 |
>volunteer run project |
| 10:07 |
sfan5 |
"why isn't he doing this and that?????" |
| 10:08 |
shivajiva |
just trying to understand why he's stepped away from the task |
| 10:09 |
Megaf |
We had a better CSM implantation but it was stepped over. https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/4577#issue-181205385 |
| 10:10 |
Megaf |
I *think* server had control over that one |
| 10:11 |
shivajiva |
0.4.16 was a bad move in terms of the holes created and it looks like a hit and run from over here atm |
| 10:18 |
|
bwarden joined #minetest-hub |
| 10:19 |
tenplus1 |
wb bwarden |
| 10:36 |
|
Megaf joined #minetest-hub |
| 10:37 |
tenplus1 |
wb |
| 10:38 |
Megaf |
Thanks |
| 10:38 |
Megaf |
interesting https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/6718#issuecomment-348145457 |
| 10:40 |
nore |
Just a quick question, but it is a problem if CSM is running but all its API calls are disabled? |
| 10:40 |
tenplus1 |
o/ nore |
| 10:40 |
nore |
Hi :) |
| 10:40 |
nore |
(or rather, most of them, except ie those that can't affect the server but are essential such as those used for death formspec) |
| 10:41 |
tenplus1 |
death formspec ? |
| 10:41 |
Megaf |
Hi nore, long time no see |
| 10:41 |
nore |
Hi Megaf! Yeah, not very active lately |
| 10:42 |
nore |
Lots of stuff to do :) |
| 10:43 |
nore |
tenplus1: yes, I seem to remember nerzhul saying something about it |
| 10:43 |
tenplus1 |
is it anything to do with https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1342 |
| 10:43 |
nerzhul |
honestly, CSM implementation is good, the flavour are good, some user usage is bad. The only error we did is we don't have flavour support in 0.4.16 which can heal the hemoragy |
| 10:44 |
Megaf |
Nothing that takes control from you is good |
| 10:44 |
nerzhul |
nore, disable all calls can have a problem, if i remember death formspec has been migrated to the CSM builtin lua stack permitting CSM mods to override it like we did with SSM inventory formspec |
| 10:45 |
sfan5 |
nerzhul: but isn't paramats PR actually fine? since builtin is still loaded to death formspecs still works, it essentially just prevents client mods from being loaded |
| 10:46 |
nerzhul |
sfan5, maybe it can be good, but i don't guarantee side effet if you use flavours for this, as it's not the CSM enable bool flag |
| 10:46 |
sfan5 |
i see |
| 10:46 |
nerzhul |
i think if you want to use a such thing you should use a function to check both bool flag & flavour byteflag and use it everytime you check the bool flag |
| 10:47 |
nerzhul |
this thing will try to disable mods loading, but if you add code to builtin CSM on various places you can make it work like a rogue mod (like the hated oredetect) |
| 10:51 |
tenplus1 |
which is why I'd rather have CSM removed completely for 0.5.0 and have it re-implemented properly |
| 10:52 |
tenplus1 |
it's bad enough that bogus clients can use minetest servers, but giving them the slightest chance to run unsecure csm mods is a no no |
| 10:53 |
nore |
^ well, a possible solution is to check the hash of the builtin file |
| 10:53 |
nerzhul |
tenplus1, the CSM implementation is good, the problem is what users can do with API |
| 10:53 |
nore |
That way, users can't change the file without recompiling |
| 10:53 |
nerzhul |
nore, it's not a single file, but it can be done yes |
| 10:53 |
tenplus1 |
that's the issue, what they can DO with it... meaning it's not secure |
| 10:53 |
Megaf[College] |
nerzhul, you wont admit is not good will ya? |
| 10:53 |
Megaf[College] |
Get over it |
| 10:53 |
* Megaf[College] |
runs |
| 10:53 |
nerzhul |
i admit you are a kid |
| 10:54 |
nerzhul |
and i admit i don't like to talk with you as you just see things in white or black, never in gray |
| 10:54 |
tenplus1 |
who ? me or megaf ? |
| 10:54 |
nerzhul |
CSM implementation is nice, CSM API is nice, but some possibilities are used by users to cheat on servers, and flavour fix them, just enable flavour or look at missing flavour instead of complaining |
| 10:55 |
nerzhul |
tenplus1, -> Megaf[College] |
| 10:55 |
nerzhul |
the only thing you need is flavours |
| 10:55 |
nerzhul |
they fix your points |
| 10:55 |
nerzhul |
but 0.4.16 doesn't have it |
| 10:55 |
tenplus1 |
can we please have a properly implemented flavour to disable csm entirely ? |
| 10:55 |
nerzhul |
entierely is not possible but mod loading is possible |
| 10:56 |
sfan5 |
tenplus1: that's exactly what the PR is aiming at and I don't think that would be rejected |
| 10:56 |
tenplus1 |
can it be hacked to re-laod mods ? |
| 10:56 |
nore |
The thing is anyway, we can never ever prevent the client from executing things like oredetect, which are simple to do in C++; of course, CSM currently lowers the entry barrier, but you will never be able to limit more than CSM flavours |
| 10:56 |
nerzhul |
tenplus1, if you recompile your own client you can, but it's like very cheating when you have access on binary source code. |
| 10:57 |
nerzhul |
like the hacked client we saw before any wild CSM appears :p |
| 10:57 |
Megaf[College] |
tenplus1, boycott time is it? |
| 10:57 |
tenplus1 |
and like I said before, it takes 1 person with the know-how to change the code, compile a hacked version and release to the masses |
| 10:57 |
Megaf[College] |
some people just can't change their minds and see things from a different perspective |
| 10:57 |
sfan5 |
tenplus1: it was always like that, CSM does not change that |
| 10:57 |
nore |
tenplus1: yes, and that is true regardless of csm |
| 10:57 |
Megaf[College] |
nerzhul, how many servers do you have? And for how long have you been running them? |
| 10:58 |
nerzhul |
tenplus1, yeah, but this person can release a hacked client, like it's already the case, but anyway, just add the flavour proposed by t0ny2 it's reasonable |
| 10:58 |
tenplus1 |
it was bad enough players coming onto Xanadu and stealing from LOCKED chests |
| 10:58 |
nerzhul |
FLAVOUR_DISABLE_MOD_LOADING |
| 10:58 |
sfan5 |
oh yes the locked chest issue again |
| 10:58 |
nerzhul |
it's nice, no code hack |
| 10:58 |
nerzhul |
sfan5, lol :p |
| 10:58 |
sfan5 |
tenplus1: that was a bug and is not the fault of csm |
| 10:58 |
nore |
tenplus1: that's a mod bug |
| 10:58 |
sfan5 |
also you still haven't shown how to reproduce it |
| 10:59 |
nerzhul |
if you can steal thing which is stored server side, it's ALWAYS server side issue |
| 10:59 |
tenplus1 |
0.4.16 july 19th build running csm, go onto server, punch locked chest, take item |
| 10:59 |
sfan5 |
yeah and the csm mod used to do that? |
| 11:00 |
tenplus1 |
opening a client formspec for a specific node using "main" inventory doesnt necesseraly check server on_take on_move etc... it's a new formspec |
| 11:00 |
nore |
tenplus1: it does check it |
| 11:00 |
sfan5 |
no no |
| 11:00 |
sfan5 |
can you please just post the full exact code so someone can reproduce and fix this? |
| 11:01 |
tenplus1 |
am not posting chest_inspector anywhere, I dont want ppl getting hold if this nonsense |
| 11:01 |
nore |
tenplus1: just privmsg it to core devs |
| 11:01 |
sfan5 |
^ |
| 11:01 |
tenplus1 |
might do later, gonna play with 0.5.x for now |
| 11:02 |
nore |
tenplus1: do you want it fixed or not? |
| 11:02 |
nerzhul |
tenplus1, in fact on_take and on_move server callbacks should see if the user is allowed to do that |
| 11:02 |
nerzhul |
if you do that only on server formspec opening it's ridiculous :) |
| 11:02 |
sfan5 |
i don't get this |
| 11:02 |
sfan5 |
multiple server owners keep complaining about CSM citing the locked chests bug |
| 11:02 |
nerzhul |
it's like if in a web page you have a login page, and you allow user to see http://example.org/admin.php without being logged if he changes the URL |
| 11:03 |
sfan5 |
while NONE of them want to work with coredevs to fix it |
| 11:03 |
tenplus1 |
hold on, will give u pastebin of csm mod |
| 11:03 |
tenplus1 |
2 mins, gotta get from other desky |
| 11:05 |
tenplus1 |
who wants link: sfan5, nore, celeron ? |
| 11:05 |
sfan5 |
PM it to me, please |
| 11:05 |
tenplus1 |
done... back laters... |
| 11:05 |
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| 11:11 |
sfan5 |
unsurprisingly it does not work |
| 11:11 |
sfan5 |
0.4.16 both mt + mtg does not allow you to take from locked chests |
| 11:12 |
nerzhul |
sfan5, maybe it's not standard mtg locked chests ? |
| 11:12 |
sfan5 |
the mod has support for a few other nodes too but the comments list the commits in which it has been fixed |
| 11:13 |
sfan5 |
(it's the "chest_inspector" mod you have probably already seen) |
| 11:49 |
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| 11:52 |
Shara |
sfan5: if I could reproduce it, I would GLADLY work with you to fix it in anyway I could. |
| 11:52 |
sfan5 |
and i would gladly fix it |
| 11:52 |
Shara |
I've seen Ten take things from chests I placed, but I can't in turn reproduce it, even when using the exact code he sent me |
| 11:53 |
Shara |
Which leaves the only option of it being version or even weirdly OS related somehow.. and I just don't know. |
| 11:53 |
Shara |
I did ask him to look into it more because if there is a big, I want it fixed |
| 11:53 |
Shara |
But please don't assume we're all unwilling to work with you on these things |
| 11:54 |
shivajiva |
^ |
| 11:56 |
Shara |
I think CSM should never have been added in its current form, and completely support it being removed until such a time as it can be reimplemented properly, and I will argue down any dev or other person who tries to tell me I don't have the right to decide the gameplay on my own server, but my interest is in fixing things, not fighting. |
| 11:59 |
sfan5 |
Shara: this happens with default:locked_chest right? |
| 11:59 |
Shara |
From what I've been able to gather |
| 12:00 |
Shara |
I wasn't here much this morning or would have tried to find more out from Ten |
| 12:00 |
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| 12:04 |
shivajiva |
looking at the history it was locked/protected/mailbox initially before the fixes were merged, I can't reproduce it either fwiw |
| 12:28 |
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| 12:38 |
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| 12:38 |
IhrFussel |
Hello there |
| 12:41 |
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| 12:48 |
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| 12:53 |
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| 13:13 |
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| 13:22 |
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| 13:24 |
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| 13:25 |
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| 13:28 |
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Fixer joined #minetest-hub |
| 13:39 |
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| 13:48 |
Megaf |
Hi Mr_Pardison Fixer RobbieF |
| 13:48 |
RobbieF |
hey Magaf, how you been? |
| 13:48 |
Mr_Pardison |
greetings. |
| 13:49 |
Megaf |
RobbieF, Fighting with Linux |
| 13:49 |
Megaf |
apt says disk full, dd and df says otherwise |
| 13:49 |
Mr_Pardison |
I hope it's not Fedora. |
| 13:49 |
Megaf |
Mr_Pardison, Debian and CentOS |
| 13:55 |
Mr_Pardison |
Why is it called tourist season if we aren't allowed to hunt them? |
| 13:56 |
Calinou |
fhi :) |
| 13:56 |
Calinou |
-f |
| 13:57 |
RobbieF |
Megaf type: df -h - which is 100%? |
| 13:57 |
RobbieF |
guessing /var? |
| 13:57 |
RobbieF |
or /boot? |
| 13:58 |
Megaf |
nope, all free |
| 13:59 |
RobbieF |
so where are you seeing "full"? |
| 13:59 |
RobbieF |
gui? |
| 13:59 |
RobbieF |
pastebin the output of df -h |
| 14:01 |
Megaf |
RobbieF, I have the guys on #Debian at OFTC trying to help me with this too |
| 14:02 |
Megaf |
RobbieF, you have to believe me, df reports more than enough space available |
| 14:02 |
Megaf |
apt update on Debian is complaining of not having space |
| 14:03 |
Megaf |
Err:2 http://deb.debian.org/debian unstable/main amd64 Packages |
| 14:03 |
Megaf |
Error writing to output file - write (28: No space left on device) Error writing to file - write (28: No space left on device) [IP: 151.101.0.204 80] |
| 14:03 |
Megaf |
E: Failed to fetch http://deb.debian.org/debian/dists/unstable/main/binary-amd64/Packages Error writing to output file - write (28: No space left on device) Error writing to file - write (28: No space left on device) [IP: 151.101.0.204 80] |
| 14:04 |
RobbieF |
I'd still like to see df -h :) and have you run df -h wrapped in watch during the update to monitor it? |
| 14:05 |
Megaf[College] |
will try that, hold on |
| 14:05 |
RobbieF |
ie., watch df -h |
| 14:05 |
RobbieF |
and what about your inodes? |
| 14:05 |
|
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| 14:06 |
RobbieF |
like, what does it show when you type df -i |
| 14:07 |
RobbieF |
use watch df -i while running apt upgrade |
| 14:07 |
Megaf[College] |
did that |
| 14:08 |
Megaf[College] |
use one inode more wile running and I get the inode back when apt finishes failing |
| 14:08 |
Megaf[College] |
by the way, df http://paste.debian.net/plain/998335 |
| 14:09 |
RobbieF |
intriguing |
| 14:09 |
RobbieF |
so the inode use never spikes during the update? |
| 14:11 |
Megaf[College] |
not at all |
| 14:14 |
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| 14:15 |
RobbieF |
is apt in a clean state? Could it be broken packages causing this? |
| 14:15 |
|
Megaf joined #minetest-hub |
| 14:22 |
Jordach |
Megaf[College], https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGXERfhe-Oo |
| 14:22 |
Jordach |
you think your RPI is slow? :^) |
| 14:23 |
Megaf[College] |
Jordach, actually I dont :P |
| 14:23 |
Megaf[College] |
3dfx voodoo :D |
| 14:25 |
Megaf[College] |
I'm amazing Windows 7 kernel works without MMX |
| 14:25 |
Megaf[College] |
I'm amazing Windows 7 kernel works without MMX and SSE |
| 14:26 |
Jordach |
what's what i've been implying about W10 |
| 14:26 |
Jordach |
windows can run on even lower end pieces of shit compared to Linux |
| 14:29 |
Megaf[College] |
I wonder if Windows ships with different kernels and just selects the best by its init/boot loader, or if it just loads modules as needed to support new CPUs or what |
| 14:29 |
Jordach |
have you seen the shit i did to my W10 install? |
| 14:30 |
Jordach |
yes, it's probably modularized to the goddamn moon and back |
| 14:30 |
Jordach |
(my W10 is in need of re-installing, but it keeps on going without dying) |
| 14:31 |
Megaf[College] |
Windows 10 is running terribly bad in VBox here |
| 14:31 |
Megaf[College] |
very slow |
| 14:31 |
Megaf[College] |
I think in part because I can only give it 1 GB of RAM |
| 14:32 |
Jordach |
Megaf[College], https://i.imgur.com/UvU5TiN.png |
| 14:32 |
Jordach |
i don't need to pay for windows again |
| 14:34 |
Jordach |
and no, the license cost me nothing |
| 14:34 |
Jordach |
(it's not KMS either) |
| 14:36 |
Jordach |
(it's not a W7 upgrade either) |
| 14:40 |
Megaf[College] |
I have no idea if I have any key associated to my account, should have |
| 14:40 |
Jordach |
Windows Update & Security -> Activation |
| 14:40 |
Jordach |
under PC Settings |
| 14:41 |
Megaf[College] |
I dont have windows man |
| 14:41 |
Megaf[College] |
not with my account at least |
| 14:41 |
* benrob0329 |
skims backlog |
| 14:41 |
Megaf[College] |
I have 1 VM for Windows 10 Creators, Pro N, 1VM for 7 Enterprise and 1 VM for Server 2008 R2 Enterprise |
| 14:45 |
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| 14:50 |
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Megaf joined #minetest-hub |
| 14:53 |
ThomasMonroe |
how do I check the IP of a player? |
| 14:56 |
benrob0329 |
ThomasMonroe: player:get_ip() I believe |
| 14:56 |
Megaf |
Gotta love my colleges wifi |
| 14:57 |
ThomasMonroe |
I mean from in-game |
| 14:57 |
benrob0329 |
ThomasMonroe: write a mod for it I suppose |
| 14:57 |
benrob0329 |
I don't think there is a chatcommand for it right now |
| 14:58 |
Megaf |
ThomasMonroe, check the log |
| 14:58 |
Megaf |
it shows there |
| 14:58 |
ThomasMonroe |
ok so its player:get_ip("playername") |
| 14:58 |
ThomasMonroe |
right? |
| 14:59 |
CBugDCoder |
no tre it is just player:get_ip |
| 14:59 |
ThomasMonroe |
nvmd |
| 14:59 |
benrob0329 |
ThomasMonroe: if your calling it from the player object I don't think you need to specify the name |
| 14:59 |
ThomasMonroe |
nvmd I just did a whois XD |
| 15:00 |
CBugDCoder |
which by the way tre is a mod |
| 15:00 |
ThomasMonroe |
ik XD |
| 15:04 |
* Jordach |
starts creating some automation for Solar Plains |
| 15:05 |
Jordach |
https://jordach.net/images/bkcilhhrqkzdjwxhxn.png |
| 15:06 |
Jordach |
the whole reason for that warning marker is for identifying the object to be automated |
| 15:11 |
benrob0329 |
Jordach: its amazing what you can to with some model placement |
| 15:12 |
Jordach |
benrob0329, the block breakers code stretches back to 2013 |
| 15:12 |
Jordach |
as a stopgap measure for a skyblock |
| 15:14 |
Jordach |
i'm just giving it that 2017 paintjob it deserves |
| 15:24 |
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| 15:32 |
FourFire |
How do I make the subgame MC2 a depend for my mod? |
| 15:32 |
FourFire |
where do I find the title is it just the folder name? |
| 15:36 |
Jordach |
lmao |
| 15:36 |
Jordach |
you can't depend on subgames |
| 15:36 |
Jordach |
only mods |
| 15:36 |
Jordach |
if you know the list of mods MC2 comes with, then depend on those |
| 15:37 |
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| 15:40 |
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| 15:44 |
FourFire |
well damn I only need the nodes |
| 15:49 |
benrob0329 |
I have realized that Sam's idle animation make no sense |
| 15:50 |
benrob0329 |
If you stand up, and do what you would expect an idle to be, you'll probably look around and shift your weight around on your hips |
| 15:51 |
benrob0329 |
If you do what Sam does you'll do 1 hump per second and rotate your whole body around to look at your surroundings |
| 15:53 |
benrob0329 |
sofar: can the head movement idea you had be done in Lua? |
| 15:55 |
benrob0329 |
For that matter, can you control just one bone of an entities animation while leaving the rest animated? |
| 16:10 |
sofar |
you can but it makes no sense, the engine can do it 10x more efficient |
| 16:10 |
sofar |
also, it's already done |
| 16:24 |
Jordach |
benrob0329, sofar: this thing does something related to input; https://jordach.net/images/pevsacfevjjduiuhnl.png |
| 16:27 |
benrob0329 |
sofar: head movement is already done for 0.5? |
| 16:28 |
benrob0329 |
Jordach: I like that you're doing the text in the texture, rather than using the default font (which IMHO does not fit the rest of the game) |
| 16:28 |
benrob0329 |
Custom fonts should be a thing. |
| 16:28 |
Jordach |
benrob0329, and unlike the default text |
| 16:29 |
Jordach |
it scales to screens properly |
| 16:29 |
Jordach |
even at 1080p+ |
| 16:29 |
Jordach |
it's still that 12pt font |
| 16:29 |
benrob0329 |
Along with font rendering for textures |
| 16:53 |
* RoaryTiger |
is hidden |
| 16:54 |
RoaryTiger |
Anyone running 0.5 server already? |
| 16:54 |
* Jordach |
is |
| 16:56 |
* Mr_Pardison |
doesn't even run a server but just watches and learns about things here |
| 16:59 |
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| 16:59 |
RoaryTiger |
Im very likely going to 0.5, 0.4 seems to be too messed up |
| 17:01 |
RoaryTiger |
going homr |
| 17:04 |
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| 17:09 |
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| 17:13 |
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| 17:22 |
FourFire |
So I'm trying to make my mod compatible with MC2 and I'm getting: ...\mods\mc2plus-master\mc_biomes/ores.lua:55: attempt to call field 'layer_to_y' (a nil value) |
| 17:23 |
FourFire |
Line 55 is: energy = tonumber(nano_data:get_string("Energy")) |
| 17:23 |
FourFire |
so the first time I'm loading a local int from mod storage |
| 17:24 |
FourFire |
does MC2 use different mod storage? |
| 17:26 |
Roger9 |
idea: |
| 17:26 |
Roger9 |
minetest logo should have a small chance to say "minteast" instead |
| 17:33 |
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| 17:48 |
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| 17:49 |
benrob0329 |
FourFire: is there an actual Energy value? |
| 17:49 |
benrob0329 |
Or are you trying to load nothing? |
| 17:49 |
FourFire |
I initialize it before hand |
| 17:50 |
FourFire |
this works fine with my mod which is dependent on default blocks |
| 17:50 |
benrob0329 |
In mod storage? |
| 17:50 |
FourFire |
I'm just trying to translate it to MC2 blocks |
| 17:50 |
FourFire |
yes I do: if nano_data:get_string("Energy") == "" then |
| 17:50 |
FourFire |
nano_data:set_string("Energy", "0") |
| 17:50 |
benrob0329 |
Not the variable, the actual string in mod storage |
| 17:51 |
FourFire |
The initalization sets it to 0, no? |
| 17:51 |
benrob0329 |
FourFire: if there isnt a value in mod storage it will be set to nil |
| 17:52 |
FourFire |
yep, which means the initialization is not working for some reason, right? |
| 17:52 |
benrob0329 |
So while you may initialize the energy variable, you probably dont initialize the value in mod storage |
| 17:53 |
benrob0329 |
But you probably dont want to reset it value every time either |
| 17:53 |
benrob0329 |
So I would make the function return 0 if energy is nil. |
| 17:54 |
benrob0329 |
Aka, if (energy) return energy else return nil |
| 17:55 |
FourFire |
doesn't the line of code I paste above initialize the storage first, then this line: |
| 17:55 |
FourFire |
energy = tonumber(nano_data:get_string("Energy")) |
| 17:55 |
FourFire |
afterwards loads the mod storage value into the local int. |
| 18:00 |
FourFire |
benrob0329, do you know who in here is most in charge of MC2, perhaps i can talk with them |
| 18:00 |
benrob0329 |
FourFire: nil != empty string |
| 18:00 |
benrob0329 |
Nod storage isnt game specific |
| 18:00 |
benrob0329 |
Its an engine thing |
| 18:00 |
* Krock |
Nods |
| 18:00 |
FourFire |
can i use the || operator inside if statements? |
| 18:01 |
Krock |
FourFire, in C++, C and C# yes. Lua: no. |
| 18:01 |
FourFire |
I don't understand why it works with one mod but not the other |
| 18:01 |
benrob0329 |
FourFire: use the actual word or |
| 18:01 |
Krock |
use "and" and "or" |
| 18:01 |
FourFire |
it's literally the same mod but with node names changed |
| 18:01 |
benrob0329 |
that's probably not the problem |
| 18:01 |
benrob0329 |
New world, new values |
| 18:02 |
FourFire |
what is this "layer_to_y" thing then? |
| 18:03 |
benrob0329 |
FourFire: ohh |
| 18:03 |
benrob0329 |
Your mod is not the problem |
| 18:03 |
benrob0329 |
MC2 is broke |
| 18:03 |
benrob0329 |
I should've read the error message more carefully |
| 18:03 |
FourFire |
Oh I'll try an earlier version of MC2 then |
| 18:04 |
Mr_Pardison |
afk lunch |
| 18:04 |
FourFire |
where should i submit the bug report, on the MC2 thread, MC2 github? |
| 18:05 |
benrob0329 |
FourFire: github |
| 18:06 |
Krock |
ensure that you mention @Wuzzy2 as often you can to trigger them |
| 18:07 |
Krock |
not really no. it'll show up in their notifications anyway ;) |
| 18:08 |
sofar |
benrob0329: you can already do head movement in lua (player_anim mod) |
| 18:09 |
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| 18:09 |
benrob0329 |
sofar: thats not the point though |
| 18:10 |
benrob0329 |
The player_anim mod hand animated everything |
| 18:10 |
benrob0329 |
*animates |
| 18:10 |
sofar |
obviously it's better to do this in the engine |
| 18:10 |
benrob0329 |
My question is can you leave everything but a specific bone to normal animation? |
| 18:10 |
benrob0329 |
Yes, in engine with smoothing and niceness is better |
| 18:10 |
sofar |
don't see why not |
| 18:11 |
sofar |
but tbh I don't know the code that well |
| 18:15 |
sofar |
smoothing, maybe, even without it would be fine I think |
| 18:15 |
sofar |
the body rotation is where it gets tricky, but visually appealing much more |
| 18:17 |
benrob0329 |
I feel like you'd need to make the head the parent bone, and have tge body inherit rotation (after a certain amount of rotation) |
| 18:18 |
benrob0329 |
So, reverse the parenting of the skeleton and put rotation locks on the neck |
| 18:19 |
benrob0329 |
I dont think we have the physics to do that though |
| 18:23 |
sofar |
the best way to model and animate is to make the hip bone of a model the root |
| 18:23 |
sofar |
that way, if the head moves, the body doesn't |
| 18:24 |
sofar |
if you do it the other way around, the whole body moves if you rotate the head |
| 18:24 |
sofar |
and then you have to rotate the body *back* |
| 18:24 |
ThomasMonroe |
what would happen if the head was a separate entity? |
| 18:24 |
sofar |
if the head isn't connected to the body, nothing happens to the body if you rotate the head |
| 18:24 |
sofar |
(with the hip being the root) |
| 18:25 |
Jordach |
sofar, lmao, my model doesn't do that |
| 18:25 |
sofar |
btw, player_anim does it the hard way |
| 18:25 |
sofar |
since the default character model is setup wrong in that way |
| 18:25 |
Jordach |
there is a bone before the body bone (known as root, aka parent of all bones) |
| 18:25 |
sofar |
i'm certain Jordach didn't make that mistake |
| 18:25 |
Jordach |
my armature has a proper root bone |
| 18:26 |
Jordach |
where the body can rotate independantly of the root |
| 18:26 |
sofar |
yes, that also solves it |
| 18:26 |
Jordach |
arms, legs and head have the body as parent, root is just to move it |
| 18:26 |
benrob0329 |
sofar: but we want the head to rotate before the body, not the other way around |
| 18:26 |
Jordach |
benrob0329, local rotation TM |
| 18:26 |
sofar |
"before" ? |
| 18:27 |
sofar |
you don't want head movement also rotating the body |
| 18:27 |
benrob0329 |
The head should move before the body starts to |
| 18:27 |
Jordach |
then the head should be parented to the root bone, benrob0329 |
| 18:27 |
sofar |
that's phase 2 of head movement |
| 18:27 |
sofar |
phase 1: head rotation (tilt/pan) |
| 18:27 |
sofar |
phase 2: lazy body movement |
| 18:28 |
sofar |
if a player stands still, and looks around - head rotates |
| 18:28 |
benrob0329 |
So you just want to do all the rotation manually, in engine |
| 18:28 |
sofar |
if a player moves - body rotates the right way |
| 18:28 |
Jordach |
benrob0329, https://i.imgur.com/bAGTZah.png |
| 18:28 |
sofar |
it's not manual if the engine does it, really |
| 18:29 |
benrob0329 |
I'm saying this could be done with rotation constraints |
| 18:30 |
Jordach |
benrob0329, constraints in blender yes |
| 18:30 |
Jordach |
constraints in exported models no |
| 18:30 |
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| 18:31 |
benrob0329 |
Thus my comment earlier about how MT doesnt have the stuff to do it |
| 18:31 |
benrob0329 |
But if rotation constraints were a thing, it would allow for better animation in general |
| 18:32 |
Jordach |
benrob0329, my model is the final word in character models |
| 18:32 |
Jordach |
https://i.imgur.com/2z5fPlL.png |
| 18:32 |
Jordach |
it has a mesh for 64x32 |
| 18:33 |
Jordach |
one for armour in 64x32, a shield, and the 64x64 layer |
| 18:36 |
Krock |
why are diamonds always shown in turquoise color? Too bright and colorized |
| 18:41 |
sofar |
the whole idea of armor covering evrything is terrible |
| 18:41 |
benrob0329 |
Krock: because white diamonds would be too realistic |
| 18:42 |
Mr_Pardison |
they could come in a variety of shades depending on the depth the spawn at but in creative it would only have one shade. |
| 18:42 |
Mr_Pardison |
just my 2 cents. |
| 18:42 |
Krock |
sofar, more decent shading and a higher resolution would improve that, wouldn't it? |
| 18:43 |
sofar |
no |
| 18:43 |
sofar |
armor should be supplemental to the skin visually |
| 18:43 |
sofar |
not replace it |
| 18:44 |
Krock |
that's an overlay texture. perhaps are the layers not thick/distanced enough? |
| 18:44 |
sofar |
"am I hitting Jill or Jack? All these skins look the same when covered in diamond armor? *shrug* *whacks*" |
| 18:44 |
Krock |
oh, that's what you meant. I see. |
| 18:45 |
FourFire |
I think the game could benefit a lot from having additonal sounds for sounded actions, but I recognize the difficulty of recording them |
| 18:45 |
sofar |
play on "inside the box" with headphones on, and tell me what sounds you're still missing |
| 18:46 |
benrob0329 |
sofar: UI sounds |
| 18:47 |
benrob0329 |
I actually thought about making an issue for that today |
| 18:47 |
sofar |
skip UI sounds for now (but sure) |
| 18:47 |
Krock |
benrob0329, we already have one for that somewhere |
| 18:47 |
benrob0329 |
Button clicks and such for the main menu, like a game would have |
| 18:47 |
sofar |
it's actually easy |
| 18:47 |
benrob0329 |
And maybe some quite, chill menu music for MTG |
| 18:47 |
Krock |
(regarding client-sided button feedback) |
| 18:47 |
benrob0329 |
Just because that's what people will first see |
| 18:48 |
sofar |
benrob0329: well ITB doesn't need those, it has those |
| 18:49 |
benrob0329 |
Also, what if the first screen you saw was Play/Play Online |
| 18:50 |
sofar |
we was talking sounds, ye of short concentration |
| 18:51 |
sofar |
I've spent a lot of time working on the soundscape for ITB, so I'd like to use it as a future reference for other projects |
| 18:52 |
sofar |
hence the request for feedback and see if it misses sounds |
| 18:52 |
sofar |
afk a bit |
| 19:05 |
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| 19:10 |
* Jordach |
creates a util function |
| 19:10 |
Jordach |
a truncator for facedir /4 |
| 19:10 |
Jordach |
(well, param2 / 4) |
| 19:15 |
* twoelk |
wonders wether Jordach ever considered sharing his Blender knowledge on the wiki |
| 19:15 |
Jordach |
i'd fry the noobs minds |
| 19:15 |
twoelk |
:-D |
| 19:15 |
Mr_Pardison |
their brains taste better sauted in a brown butter sauce. |
| 19:15 |
Jordach |
blender is the emacs of the 3d modeling software world |
| 19:16 |
twoelk |
some nice screenshots with remarks might be an easy start |
| 19:17 |
* Mr_Pardison |
sees no one got his joke and that he should get some better material |
| 19:19 |
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| 19:23 |
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Mr_Pardison joined #minetest-hub |
| 19:26 |
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rubenwardy left #minetest-hub |
| 19:27 |
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Megaf joined #minetest-hub |
| 19:28 |
Megaf |
Greeings gentlemen and two ladies. |
| 19:28 |
Megaf |
Greetings* |
| 19:29 |
Mr_Pardison |
Greetings, fellow homo sapien |
| 19:31 |
Megaf |
Some people don't quite believe I'm homo sapiens |
| 19:31 |
* twoelk |
imagines aliens making first contact via irc |
| 19:31 |
* Megaf |
hide |
| 19:31 |
Mr_Pardison |
*gasps* you're not human? |
| 19:32 |
Megaf |
I tried to prove I'm human to some people yet they don't believe I am |
| 19:32 |
Megaf |
So yeah |
| 19:35 |
twoelk |
not much of the place exists my parents claim to have been born, all destroyed in ww2, so no proof of my family's origin on earth :-D |
| 19:36 |
Mr_Pardison |
DNA might help. |
| 19:36 |
Mr_Pardison |
Nat Geo and Ancestry.com both have decent holiday offers. |
| 19:38 |
twoelk |
hm, but then I wouldn't be able to make mysterious remarks |
| 19:39 |
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| 19:39 |
Mr_Pardison |
I'd get one just to see where I'm from but I still won't know where I'm going. |
| 19:42 |
twoelk |
my family claims to be able to track ancestors to about the napoleonic wars. he seems to have disrupted the area somewhat |
| 19:45 |
Jordach |
got a strange bug |
| 19:45 |
Jordach |
two different functions |
| 19:45 |
Jordach |
and a node timer |
| 19:46 |
Jordach |
they copy pos into their own local, yet edit one another when used together |
| 19:46 |
Jordach |
https://gist.github.com/Jordach/15cef28c52e76a4d61808fa02a1ff199 |
| 19:47 |
sfan5 |
local npos = pos will not create a copy |
| 19:47 |
sfan5 |
use table.copy() |
| 19:48 |
Jordach |
you'd expect it to copy irregardless |
| 19:49 |
Mr_Pardison |
codehs.com is really dumb. |
| 19:50 |
Mr_Pardison |
doing HTML right now (EASY!) and I didn't have to put any links in nor image sources and it took it to be right. |
| 19:50 |
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| 19:51 |
sfan5 |
Jordach: the problem with languages like lua is that there is no explicit indicator whether something is a reference or a value |
| 19:51 |
Jordach |
sfan5, for a scripting language that says it's C but a scripting language seems to lie like theresa may |
| 19:52 |
* Jordach |
drinks bleach |
| 19:52 |
Mr_Pardison |
o/ Sokomine |
| 20:04 |
IhrFussel |
table.copy() only copies the first level of a table? Or is that definition deprecated? |
| 20:06 |
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| 20:07 |
sfan5 |
not sure |
| 20:08 |
sfan5 |
don't we have table.deepcopy()? |
| 20:10 |
sofar |
it deepcopies afaik |
| 20:10 |
sofar |
would be terrible if it didn't deepcopy by default |
| 20:24 |
IhrFussel |
sofar, the lua docs I found say it doesn't deepcopy, MT's lua_api.txt mentions deepcopy |
| 20:25 |
sofar |
submit a documentation fix? |
| 20:26 |
sofar |
and test it, of course |
| 20:26 |
sofar |
I could be full of it |
| 20:26 |
sofar |
print(dump(table.copy({a = { b = "deepcopy!"}}))) |
| 20:29 |
IhrFussel |
I'm guessing standard lua doesn't even have "table.copy" so MT likely implements it manually with deep copy |
| 20:30 |
IhrFussel |
The lua docs just say "A generic table.copy function is not guaranteed to suit all use-cases, as there are many different aspects which must be selected for the specific situation. For example: should metatables be shared or copied? Should we check userdata for a __copy metamethod? These questions (as well as many others) must be asked and answered by the developer." |
| 20:31 |
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| 20:38 |
benrob0329 |
sofar: thinking about the main menu made me thing about how the main menu needs some work |
| 20:39 |
sofar |
why are you bothering me about the main menu thing? |
| 20:39 |
sofar |
I never wanted to talk about it |
| 20:39 |
sofar |
:P |
| 20:41 |
benrob0329 |
heh |
| 20:44 |
sofar |
(not that it isn't a problem or needs work) |
| 20:48 |
Mr-Pardison |
got my minimap to be completely black on d/l! |
| 20:48 |
Mr-Pardison |
pretty neat. |
| 20:51 |
* benrob0329 |
posted a file: minetest_main_menu_idea.png (45KB) <https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/dmwosCYPPUOZKjJaRNOqMATP> |
| 21:02 |
Krock |
The mod & texture pack overview plus all the settings in one button? duh |
| 21:11 |
benrob0329 |
Krock: Organized settings would help :-) |
| 21:12 |
benrob0329 |
rather than advanced settings being where everything is dumped, we could organize them in a proper settings panel |
| 21:13 |
benrob0329 |
heck, we could just take the categories from Advanced settings and turn them into tabs and sub-tabs |
| 21:21 |
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| 21:32 |
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| 21:55 |
benrob0329 |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3818#issuecomment-348332793 |
| 21:58 |
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| 22:05 |
IhrFussel |
Regarding the "CSM can access locked chests" I highly think that your chest mod(s) simply don't have allow_metadata_inventory_put/take/move callbacks with proper owner checking |
| 22:06 |
IhrFussel |
Many chest modders are too lazy to really put that owner check in EACH of those callbacks |
| 22:07 |
IhrFussel |
CSM requires you to do that, or else your chests/storage nodes will get compromised sooner or later |
| 22:13 |
nerzhul |
IhrFussel, it's not CSM which require that, it's just... you |
| 22:14 |
nerzhul |
SSM mods security cannot be compromised by CSM as they run on different machines |
| 22:14 |
nerzhul |
if a mod is lazy coded, it's just shitty lazy coded |
| 22:14 |
IhrFussel |
nerzhul, CSM made this more necessary...I'm not saying that's a bad thing |
| 22:15 |
nerzhul |
IhrFussel, yeah it has a nice side effects, modders can be attacked like PHP apps can be easily attacked by tweaking HTTP requetss with firefox console :p |
| 22:15 |
IhrFussel |
Before CSM it was almost impossible (without very good c++ knowledge) to access metadata of nodes without permission |
| 22:16 |
IhrFussel |
And server owners/modders knew that so they likely got lazy there...and now it bites them back |
| 22:19 |
IhrFussel |
I'm neutral regarding CSM ... I don't love it and I don't hate it... I see at least a couple of good uses for it (for example when server and clients work together) and I was one of those who complained about the idea of completely disabling CSM with no way to enable it server-side |
| 22:20 |
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| 22:20 |
benrob0329 |
As of right now server provided csm does not exist, and client provided csm is used for cheating |
| 22:20 |
IhrFussel |
And I gotta admit it helped me with a few security risks in certain mods ... benrob0329 servers can already communicate with clients AFAIK some client mods do it ... so it enhances certain gameplay |
| 22:21 |
benrob0329 |
IhrFussel: but you have yo manually install them |
| 22:21 |
benrob0329 |
*to |
| 22:21 |
benrob0329 |
CSM should have waited until 0.5 imho |
| 22:22 |
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| 22:22 |
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| 22:22 |
IhrFussel |
Yes that's the painful part of it... and will hopefully be improved soon |
| 22:22 |
IhrFussel |
I agree there...CSM should have released with 0.5.0 but who knows if flavors would've been added then... I think the feature was only added cause of negative feedback |
| 22:23 |
IhrFussel |
No CSM = no negative feedback |
| 22:24 |
IhrFussel |
It's just very very unfortunate that server owners who don't want to switch to 0.5.0 yet can only hope that no CSM will damage their server |
| 22:26 |
IhrFussel |
When 0.5.0 releases server owners will only have 2 options: 1. Upgrade and lose ~ 90% of your userbase but have CSM restrictions or 2. Stay on 0.4.X with your old userbase and be vulnerable to all kinds of CSM |
| 22:26 |
sfan5 |
ｄï½ï½ï½ï½‡ï½… |
| 22:26 |
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| 22:26 |
sfan5 |
do you also fear that ordinary cheaters "damage" your server? |
| 22:28 |
IhrFussel |
sfan5, damage is relative to what kind of server the "cheater" joins... on a creative server I doubt that stealing from chests is seen as bad ... but on a survival server where players are supposed to gather their materials by hard work...absolutely |
| 22:28 |
sfan5 |
okay waitr |
| 22:28 |
sfan5 |
here's a PSA: no mention of the locked chest issue unless it has been reproduced by devs |
| 22:28 |
sfan5 |
since it's not even confirmed please stop using it as an argument everywhere |
| 22:29 |
IhrFussel |
There are other examples like ore_detect ... it's not just 1 type of CSM that could "damage" a server..it's quite a few and I'm sure some are yet to be created |
| 22:29 |
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| 22:30 |
sfan5 |
oredetect is a legitimate problem, i agree |
| 22:31 |
Grandolf |
solution for oredetect is to use UFI codes |
| 22:32 |
Grandolf |
in all your ores |
| 22:32 |
IhrFussel |
CSM definitely lowered the barrier to spam (hi mod) and other cheating ... but like I said there are also usecases where CSM enhances the game ... it has both sides |
| 22:32 |
Grandolf |
a pain, and untested |
| 22:33 |
IhrFussel |
Can you even use that code in /giveme then ? |
| 22:33 |
Grandolf |
IhrFussel i dont really care for CSM myself, but now that its been implemented, its not easy to take out, since people will just not update |
| 22:33 |
Grandolf |
no IhrFussel |
| 22:34 |
Grandolf |
but if you have unified inventory you should still be able to pul stuff out |
| 22:34 |
IhrFussel |
Then it's useless...admins/moderators need to be able to get items via /give and /giveme ... there are items that are hidden from the inventory |
| 22:35 |
Grandolf |
then refer to previous comment: now that its been implemented, its not easy to take out, since people will just not update |
| 22:35 |
IhrFussel |
Also not only will clients just not update, big servers will very likely not update soon either... tenplus1 mentioned that he will upgrade to 0.5.0 when it releases but not every server owner wants to take the risk of losing LOTS of players |
| 22:37 |
IhrFussel |
I mean *who* will want to upgrade to 0.5.0 as player if there are only very few servers (first) that support the client ... the only hope is the big Android re-design |
| 22:38 |
Grandolf |
5.0 doesn support previous versions? |
| 22:38 |
Jordach |
sofar |
| 22:39 |
Jordach |
i have functional pipeworks minus the entity lag |
| 22:39 |
IhrFussel |
0.5.0 raised the minimum protocol version to 36 AFAIK and 0.4.16 is protocol version 32 |
| 22:39 |
sofar |
so, no entities? |
| 22:39 |
Jordach |
entirely entityless and feels exactly like MC hoppers, without the only going downards part |
| 22:39 |
sofar |
animated textures and smart UV mapping? |
| 22:40 |
Jordach |
not a fan of those |
| 22:40 |
IhrFussel |
0.4.17 will also stay on version 32 I'd guess since there will be no breaking feature implemented...just a few smaller ones + bugfixes |
| 22:41 |
IhrFussel |
I can test it right now if I find a 0.5.0 server..one sec |
| 22:42 |
IhrFussel |
Grandolf, confirmed I get an error that the server requires version 36 and my client only supports 25-35 |
| 22:43 |
Grandolf |
kk |
| 22:44 |
IhrFussel |
So yes, 0.4.16/0.4.17 cannot connect to 0.5.0 (unless the server owner manually edits the min_protocol_version which would cause many bugs or even crashes) |
| 22:45 |
IhrFussel |
Am I right? @ core devs |
| 22:46 |
Amaz |
IhrFussel: I'm not a core dev, but from what I understan, yup, that's right. 0.4.16 can't connect to 0.5.0 servers. |
| 22:47 |
Amaz |
(And 0.5.0 can't connect to 0.4.16 servers) |
| 22:48 |
IhrFussel |
Amaz, I know but I wanted to know what IF a server owner edits the c++ hard coded minimum protocol version to say 32 which would (theoretically) support 0.4.16 again |
| 22:48 |
shivajiva |
it does seem to hinge on the droid client and the fact 0.4 was spoiled just prior to 0.5 could be seen by some individuals as an intentional move to undermine the security of 0.4 whilst making breaking changes. |
| 22:49 |
Amaz |
IhrFussel: Ah, okay. I think that would crash the client before/as it joined. |
| 22:50 |
Jordach |
>starts recording demo |
| 22:50 |
Jordach |
>crash |
| 22:50 |
IhrFussel |
If nerzhul's ASIO PR gets merged before release the networks will be completely incompatible so older clients couldn't even connect to a 0.5.0 server ... I just remembered that PR |
| 22:53 |
Shara |
What worries me is if there ends up being more than one compatibility breaking version in a row... 0.5 is already going to make all kinds of fun |
| 22:53 |
Shara |
Personally I don't want to rush into 0.5... more than one server owner is only in a hurry to get it thanks to CSM... |
| 22:53 |
shivajiva |
ASIO doesn't make it into 0.5 it's been delayed for testing I believe |
| 22:54 |
Shara |
So we'll have two compat breaking releases in a row? |
| 22:54 |
shivajiva |
:) |
| 22:54 |
IhrFussel |
shivajiva, 0.5.0 will not release before Feb 2018 |
| 22:54 |
Shara |
And given the public server list is usually showing servers of at least three versions... I pity the players |
| 22:55 |
Amaz |
If the ASIO is going to be merged, it should be before 0.5. |
| 22:55 |
CBugDCoder |
definatly |
| 22:56 |
IhrFussel |
0.4.17 was supposed to release this month (in 5 minutes it's dec here) but probably delayed too now? |
| 22:56 |
shivajiva |
I feel for both players and server owners, it's going to be a rough ride either way |
| 22:56 |
nerzhul |
IhrFussel, it's exact yes |
| 22:56 |
Shara |
I still see myself whitelisting my servers come the release of 0.5 and calling it a day |
| 22:56 |
nerzhul |
Shara, it's not delayed, we have no release date for 0.5 atm |
| 22:56 |
Shara |
I didn't say it is delayed... |
| 22:56 |
nerzhul |
i just need time to finish tracking a windows anoying bug, else it's perfectly stable |
| 22:57 |
nerzhul |
better to have all compat break in one row than doing it every 6 months |
| 22:57 |
IhrFussel |
nerzhul, I actively helped testing the PR for over a week xP |
| 22:58 |
shivajiva |
nrz: I said it's delayed, based on lack of testing |
| 22:58 |
CBugDCoder |
question will there be a iphone/ipad app for 0.5.0? |
| 22:58 |
IhrFussel |
ASIO PR is 100% stable on Ubuntu ... the last time I connected to nrz's test server I had 0 bugs and 0 crashes for over an hour straight |
| 22:59 |
Shara |
nerzhul: Any chance you could tak e alook at https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/6717 and let me know if I made the changes you wanted correctly? |
| 22:59 |
Jordach |
https://youtu.be/jU5HkFtyBh8 :^) |
| 22:59 |
IhrFussel |
CBugDCoder, Apple doesn't allow LGPL software |
| 23:00 |
CBugDCoder |
ugg so then how is there an app now? |
| 23:00 |
IhrFussel |
Illegal, it breaks the MT license |
| 23:01 |
CBugDCoder |
so if a server updates then all iphone/ipad users are "banned" |
| 23:01 |
shivajiva |
clearly we need a public server we can stress test ASIO on as a community, something permanent and advertised as such? |
| 23:01 |
IhrFussel |
Greedy app devs don't give a damn about licenses |
| 23:01 |
nerzhul |
Shara, why not remove version from client_mod_api too ? |
| 23:02 |
nerzhul |
they are very similar |
| 23:02 |
Shara |
because I'm focused on lua_api only for now. I'll get to the others later |
| 23:02 |
IhrFussel |
CBugDCoder, yes exactly...and the iDevices userbase is huge in MT |
| 23:02 |
Shara |
I don't want these PRs sitting around too long, due to how often documents might get updated, and I have no time the next few days. |
| 23:03 |
IhrFussel |
I mean app devs *will* find a way to create another illegal 0.5.0 app in the future... but it takes lots of work I think |
| 23:04 |
IhrFussel |
Until now they could just use 0.4.11 client code which is still supported in 0.4.16 servers |
| 23:05 |
benrob0329 |
Jordach: particles? |
| 23:05 |
CBugDCoder |
if apple doesnt allow LGPL then how is there a mac app |
| 23:07 |
shivajiva |
ask apple lol |
| 23:07 |
Jordach |
benrob0329, particles for whqt |
| 23:07 |
IhrFussel |
I think the restriction is only in their store...iTunes or whatever ... Mac doesn't use the store necessarily...or does it? |
| 23:08 |
CBugDCoder |
idk i have never used apple XD |
| 23:08 |
benrob0329 |
Jordach: pipes, or did you ditch those since last I knew? |
| 23:08 |
IhrFussel |
You can install homebrew on Mac..that's what I know |
| 23:09 |
Jordach |
benrob0329, i've been working on them all evening |
| 23:12 |
CBugDCoder |
so if the licence of MT was changed to another FOSS licence it might be able to be added to the apple store :/ |
| 23:13 |
benrob0329 |
Screw iOS |
| 23:16 |
CBugDCoder |
true but that is a large portion of the playerbase |
| 23:17 |
benrob0329 |
Screw people who don't bother to use the internet :^) |
| 23:17 |
CBugDCoder |
? |
| 23:19 |
sofar |
there's nothing wrong (from our perspective) with apple store versions of minetest |
| 23:19 |
sofar |
only apple has an issue with it |
| 23:19 |
sofar |
if the source can be obtained properly... I'd say we shouldn't care |
| 23:20 |
benrob0329 |
CBugDCoder: to actually look up the game |
| 23:20 |
benrob0329 |
sofar: that is true |
| 23:21 |
CBugDCoder |
i noticed that the app store has GPL apps so why can it have GPL and not LGPL |
| 23:22 |
sofar |
it can't. gpl/lgpl are the same for license requirements for as far as they are concerned |
| 23:23 |
benrob0329 |
Apple doesnt like copyleft licenses because walled garden :^) |
| 23:24 |
sofar |
bottom line is that app stores and GPL don't mix, since apple can not verify that the app sources are actually the same as the ones used to build the app |
| 23:24 |
benrob0329 |
Also I think this proves the curation of the App Store is crap |
| 23:24 |
sofar |
and if apple redistributes GPL, then apple must provide sources |
| 23:25 |
sofar |
so they cannot legally have gpl apps in the store unless they build the software |
| 23:25 |
sofar |
and of course, they don't. |
| 23:25 |
sofar |
the GPL actually is ambiguous about this |
| 23:25 |
sofar |
on purpose |
| 23:26 |
sofar |
the GPL could say that "app stores etc" are not the ones that are required to provide sources, but the original vendor should |
| 23:26 |
sofar |
but that is a slippery slope that the FSF would never agree on |
| 23:26 |
sofar |
besides, courts might invalidate it entirely |
| 23:26 |
IhrFussel |
Here is a relevant link (old but probably still correct) https://stackoverflow.com/questions/459833/which-open-source-licenses-are-compatible-with-the-apples-iphone-and-its-offici |
| 23:26 |
sofar |
enough legal speak yet? |
| 23:27 |
sofar |
that article has little to do with the reason that the app store doesn't allow gpl/lgpl |
| 23:28 |
sofar |
it's entirely irrelevant, even (it's not incorrect, though, but it doesn't clearly state the reason why apple disallows GPL apps) |
| 23:29 |
sofar |
heck that thread is full with conjecture |
| 23:29 |
benrob0329 |
So...use illegal apps with care. |
| 23:31 |
sofar |
well, there's absolutely nothing wrong with MT builds for ios |
| 23:31 |
IhrFussel |
sofar, what? I clearly lists the problems with using (L)GPL on their app store and what requirements you likely cannot meet |
| 23:31 |
sofar |
it's when the people making them do not distribute their sources that there is a problem |
| 23:31 |
IhrFussel |
It* |
| 23:31 |
sofar |
IhrFussel: you can totally make a legal ios GPL application |
| 23:32 |
sofar |
the problem is that apple won't allow them in the appstore |
| 23:32 |
sofar |
and for good legal reasons |
| 23:32 |
IhrFussel |
Yes but the app store may reject your software...it would still be legal to distribute it for iOS |
| 23:32 |
sofar |
obviously, illegally linking apps are not legal, but they are illegal everywhere |
| 23:32 |
sofar |
even outside of the app store... |
| 23:33 |
sofar |
do you see the difference? |
| 23:33 |
IhrFussel |
But almost nobody is able to download apps from outside the store |
| 23:33 |
sofar |
yes, I'm not disclaiming the ramifications of that restriction |
| 23:33 |
IhrFussel |
Why can Google allow "every" licence then? |
| 23:34 |
sofar |
Google may or may not be in trouble for the exact same reason |
| 23:34 |
sofar |
however, reality shows that users do not sue google for not having GPL sources for apps |
| 23:35 |
sofar |
and google honors takedown requests |
| 23:35 |
sofar |
Apple lawyers are clearly more anal |
| 23:35 |
sofar |
culture is likely also a factor |
| 23:35 |
sofar |
especially since android uses a GPL kernel |
| 23:35 |
sofar |
! |
| 23:35 |
IhrFussel |
So anyone could tell Google "I didn't get my licence when downloading the LGPL software Minetest" and Google might remove it?? |
| 23:36 |
sofar |
I don't see why not |
| 23:36 |
sofar |
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.minetest.minetest&hl=en |
| 23:37 |
sofar |
no links to source code anywhere |
| 23:38 |
sofar |
anyone could complain, really |
| 23:38 |
sofar |
there's not even a "license" field anywhere afaics |
| 23:39 |
IhrFussel |
Requires Android |
| 23:39 |
IhrFussel |
2.3 and up |
| 23:39 |
IhrFussel |
Didn't know we support such old versions |
| 23:42 |
IhrFussel |
Okay well the good thing is that Android allows you to download/install apps from anywhere (just need to enable it in settings) so in case of a removal, the majority of users could still play |
| 23:43 |
IhrFussel |
Shouldn't we link the source code in the description though? I mean a link to github |
| 23:44 |
benrob0329 |
^ |
| 23:48 |
IhrFussel |
Off for the night, see ya |
| 23:59 |
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