Minetest logo

IRC log for #minetest-hub, 2017-11-28

| Channels | #minetest-hub index | Today | | Google Search | Plaintext

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:01 Megaf aright
00:19 Megaf I will be playing with Minetest Server on a Raspberry Pi 2 soon
00:19 Megaf transferring the image to the sd card right now
00:20 Raven262 joined #minetest-hub
00:21 Megaf I wonder how long will it take to compile
00:22 Megaf I need somebody to make a mod that benchmarks the server
00:22 Megaf time to generate x blocks for example
00:22 Megaf and benchmarks some operations in Lua too
00:22 * paramat runs away
00:24 * Megaf traps paramat
00:24 Megaf you up for the job?
00:24 Megaf :P
00:25 Fixer try /emergeblocks benchmark
00:26 Fixer Megaf: on forum I posted a thread with /emergeblock benchmark, try it
00:54 Roger9 yay
01:12 Megaf pi@Blacknium:~ $ hostname -f
01:12 Megaf Blacknium.Metal.Loca
01:12 Megaf new hostname :)
01:12 Megaf Local*
01:41 sniper338 joined #minetest-hub
01:46 sniper338 joined #minetest-hub
02:33 paramat joined #minetest-hub
03:09 CalebDavis joined #minetest-hub
03:16 paramat left #minetest-hub
03:24 compunerd joined #minetest-hub
03:30 ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-hub
04:28 Lupercus joined #minetest-hub
04:28 MinetestBot Lupercus: Oct-09 19:47 UTC <Krock> How to block multicraft users: Switch to 0.5.0
04:29 Lupercus left #minetest-hub
05:02 ShadowBot` joined #minetest-hub
06:17 sofar or have ~30mb of hi res skybox textures and 10 3-minute music tracks
06:17 sofar I get zero android clients on my server
06:37 nerzhul joined #minetest-hub
07:31 FourFire I'm getting this error: https://hastebin.com/equrulahox.tex The relevant line is the contents of this if statement: https://hastebin.com/xizoxufuda.lua
07:32 FourFire How do I force the script to skip the lines between then & else ?
07:35 FourFire I also tried if(not stone_xyz = "nil") then
07:36 FourFire which yields init.lua:253: ')' expected near '='
07:39 FourFire Ah I figured it out: if(not stone_xyz)
07:40 FourFire No comparison needed
07:43 TommyTreasure joined #minetest-hub
07:45 CWz joined #minetest-hub
09:18 nrzkt2 joined #minetest-hub
10:08 shivajiva Anyone with write access to unified_inventory around to merge my pr? It's been 8 days since I made it
10:10 shivajiva you'd think a pr that removes >900 core function calls on player login would be worth merging asap
10:11 shivajiva or was it >400 calls...either way...
11:41 Fixer joined #minetest-hub
12:40 Jordach joined #minetest-hub
12:42 sniper338 joined #minetest-hub
13:27 Mr_Pardison joined #minetest-hub
13:34 sniper570 joined #minetest-hub
13:35 sniper570 joined #minetest-hub
13:38 Megaf Good morning
13:39 Mr_Pardison Morning Megaf
13:41 ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-hub
13:44 Megaf Greetings ThomasMonroe
13:47 shivajiva Greetings Megaf
13:49 ThomasMonroe hello Megaf, shivajiva
13:50 shivajiva Hello ThomasM
13:51 Mr_Pardison Greetings, shivajiva
13:52 shivajiva Hi Mr_P, didn't mean to leave you out :)
13:53 Mr_Pardison I'm used to being left out since I tend to be the quiet one.
13:53 Mr_Pardison Just silently observing and seeing what goes on.
13:53 Megaf Hah
13:53 shivajiva being a voyeur is okay
13:54 shivajiva as you can see not much going on atm
13:54 ThomasMonroe hiya Mr_Pardison
13:55 Mr_Pardison Hello ThomasMonroe
13:56 shivajiva I see Russia have a missing satellite, they seem to have put it in the wrong orbit...
14:11 IhrFussel joined #minetest-hub
14:13 IhrFussel minetest.rotate_and_place doesn't take the item from the stack if you place it on a pedestal ... now I replaced "on_place = minetest.rotate_and_place" with "after_place_node = function...... itemstack:take_item() return itemstack end" but I'd like to still rotate and place after I made sure that the item was taken from the stack
14:23 CalebDavis joined #minetest-hub
14:27 IhrFussel after_place_node = function(pos, placer, itemstack, pointed_thing) itemstack:take_item() minetest.rotate_and_place() return itemstack end << error "pointed_thing is nil"
14:29 Megaf shivajiva: did you see they intercepted an American plane yesterday?
14:30 Megaf https://www.stripes.com/news/russian-jet-perfo​rms-unsafe-intercept-of-us-navy-plane-1.499761
14:30 * Mr_Pardison goes back to being overwatch and talking about jousting
14:33 RobbieF joined #minetest-hub
14:37 shivajiva Hi RobbieF
14:38 RobbieF shivajiva!! How are ya?
14:38 shivajiva it's not unusual Megaf the UK regularly intercepts Russian planes flying in our airspace
14:38 shivajiva Good thanks, hbu?
14:38 Megaf shivajiva: I know :)
14:39 Megaf I wonder what would happen if the USA decided to send some F-22 to fly close to Russia... I want to see them intercept that
14:40 shivajiva you know the Russians would try and shoot it down with SAMs
14:40 Mr_Pardison something would probably go badly for one side.
14:41 Megaf Only if the raptors got too close
14:41 Megaf they are not invisible but they are much harder to detect
14:41 shivajiva have you seen the Klub series, all nicely packed in a container, doors open and the roof jacks and they are ready to launch
14:41 Mr_Pardison they could but depending on how the SAM's track there target, they could be evaded or fooled.
14:42 shivajiva kinda reminds me of Walmart and what they seem to be doing in the States with 124 of their stores
14:43 shivajiva looks like Walmart = FEMA
14:44 Megaf Changing topics. Since I decided to not use HHVM again and use Apache + PHP7 I could reduce the RAM size from almost 1 GB on my web server to 128 MB
14:44 RobbieF I'm doing very well thanks. Big things happening on Minetest.TV too so it's an exciting time!
14:45 shivajiva in fact they released a public information clip suggesting you report any thing suspicious to your local Walmart manager
14:45 Mr_Pardison like a fire in the store?
14:46 shivajiva Cool Robbie, what specifically is happening?
14:46 shivajiva no like you think the guy across the road is a terrorist
14:47 shivajiva it seems so natural to report terrorism to the local Walmart manager doesn't it :)
14:48 Mr_Pardison in this crazy world we live in, what is natural?
14:51 shivajiva certainly not the evidence to suggest we live on a heavily quarried planet that pre-dates our history
14:52 shivajiva nor the trinitite found in India that is 5000 years old
14:53 Jordach RobbieF, Shara https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?p=301685#p301685
14:53 Jordach i am literally hot shit
14:54 * shivajiva hesitates and clicks
14:55 Jordach i can generate players hands on automated server restarts
14:55 benrob0329 Jordach: only for about 5 minutes though :P
14:55 Jordach until they change their appearance
14:56 Jordach computing 24bits of HEX RGBA isn't a fun ideal for item registry
14:56 benrob0329 No, you only "hot shit" on the forums for about 5 minutes
14:56 * Jordach drops a mixtape
14:56 benrob0329 Then someone else posts :P
14:56 Jordach the system was working
14:56 Jordach just not the system that gives out the hands
14:56 Jordach https://i.imgur.com/HZKuPa8.jpg
14:57 Jordach it was this little shit
14:57 Jordach https://gist.github.com/Jordach/​ec18696a5664923e1b6fea0bd5097255
14:57 Jordach then i realised
14:57 Jordach a break statement would have solved it
14:57 Jordach (or moving the _default_ before the loop)
15:00 Jordach https://i.imgur.com/oSLdnjn.jpg
15:10 RobbieF shivajiva I'm working on a new user system that lets people sign up for a free account and skin their character, follow other players, etc.
15:11 RobbieF as you know we have a very advanced skinning system
15:11 RobbieF so we're taking it to the next level with a built-in skin editor, ability to switch skins, etc.
15:12 RobbieF and there's a mod servers can use to connect their players to their skins
15:12 Jordach RobbieF, >built in skin editor
15:12 Jordach been there done that
15:12 Jordach :^)
15:13 RobbieF not in-game Jordach
15:13 Jordach hehe
15:18 jas_ /give RobbieF dresser:skin_item_sam
15:18 jas_ i like the clothing mod, you use that right?
15:18 RobbieF I do not.
15:18 jas_ oh i see
15:19 RobbieF We use multiskin
15:19 jas_ clothing requires multiskin
15:19 jas_ (afaik)
15:19 RobbieF though the creative server supports clothing
15:19 jas_ i dunno how that mod works, multiskin, but am very glad that it does!
15:19 RobbieF but that is unrelated to our skin API
15:19 jas_ i use craftitems as skins you must have in your inventory
15:19 jas_ and you put then in a dresser node
15:19 jas_ it's super weird
15:20 jas_ but i just like holding a little sam
15:21 CBugDCoder RobbieF so would it be possible to use your skin database on tre's and my server Legends Of Survival?
15:24 RobbieF CBugDCoder - yes.
15:24 oOChainLynxOo joined #minetest-hub
15:25 CBugDCoder ok :) cause i am getting swamped with skin requests and it would be nice to have it so the players can add their own skins
15:26 RobbieF oh sure... email me contact@category5.tv and I'll try to notify you when it's ready for other servers.
15:26 RobbieF we've been using it on multiple servers here and it's great
15:27 CBugDCoder kk ill have tre do that since i dont have an email yet XD
15:28 RobbieF heh
15:28 RobbieF what is this, 1988?
15:28 RobbieF ;)
15:29 ThomasMonroe nah we don't even have cell-phones yet XD
15:29 CBugDCoder nope its 1634 XD
15:29 RobbieF Time to build the railroad!
15:29 ThomasMonroe also RobbieF I'm almost always here unless I am having net probs, so you could contact me via memoserv
15:30 RobbieF Thanks. But I'm more asking for the email because [haha] I know I'll forget.
15:30 ThomasMonroe ah ok lol got it
15:31 ThomasMonroe i don't check my e-mail that often though
15:33 Mr_Pardison left #minetest-hub
15:37 Mr_Pardison joined #minetest-hub
15:38 RobbieF alright, well you guys know where to find me  :)
15:38 CBugDCoder will the skin switching be in-game of on the site?
15:38 RobbieF The new back-end will be up on our web site as well
15:38 RobbieF CBugDCoder, through the web site, much more like Minecraft.
15:38 CBugDCoder ok
15:39 RobbieF however our system will support *multiple* skins per player, so they can change skins at will.
15:39 CBugDCoder ok ittle just require a server restart to apply or will it just need to restart to add new skins?
15:42 RobbieF no, you don't need to restart.
15:42 CBugDCoder ok then how would the new textures be sent to the clients?
15:43 RobbieF working that out CBugDCoder - still developing it.
15:43 CBugDCoder ok
15:50 CBugDCoder thx for developing the mod our server avrages 25 players on at a time and i cant keep up with the skin requests XD
15:50 RobbieF yeah that'd be brutal
15:51 RobbieF our servers are all automatic for skins... players upload their own
15:51 RobbieF so I'll simply be opening that up for other server admins, and also giving the players a built-in editor
15:52 Megaf CBugDCoder: Hm, who are you?
15:52 Megaf Hi RobbieF jas_
15:52 CBugDCoder CalebDavis :)
15:52 jas_ hi
15:52 Megaf Oh, Hi Caleb :)
15:53 Megaf I'm feeling fat
15:53 Megaf Tigers can't be fat
15:56 Megaf Eating peanut butter straight out of the jar, with a spoon
15:56 Mr_Pardison just my style.
15:56 Mr_Pardison except for when I have apples in which case I might pair them depending on what type it is.
15:56 Megaf So I'm not the only insane who does that
15:57 Mr_Pardison I'm not crazy!
15:57 Mr_Pardison My mother had me tested.
15:57 Mr_Pardison XD
15:57 CBugDCoder i love eating peanut butter straight out of the jar :)
15:57 Megaf Cool
15:58 Megaf Thanks folks :P
15:58 Megaf I feel better now
15:58 Megaf You prefer the crunchy one or the smooth?
15:58 Mr_Pardison smooth.
15:58 CBugDCoder both
15:58 Mr_Pardison Jif brand.
15:58 CBugDCoder depends on how i feel
15:58 CBugDCoder and i do Jif too
15:58 Mr_Pardison I'll settle for Skippy if it's cheaper.
15:59 Megaf I eat Tescos, Tesco peanut butter is supper cheap and delicious. And I prefer the crunchy one
16:00 CBugDCoder i have Jif cause my dad wont have any other brand it is one of the few things he is picky about XD
16:00 Megaf Hah
16:01 Megaf -bash: bin/minetestserver: cannot execute binary file: Exec format error
16:01 Megaf Oh well
16:02 Megaf I guess that's what you get when you try to run amd64 binary on an ARMv7 board
16:02 * Mr_Pardison hands Megaf an arm
16:02 Mr_Pardison that might help.
16:02 Megaf hah
16:28 IhrFussel Does anyone have an idea on how to take an item from the stack on_place PLUS use minetest.rotate_and_place on that node after?
16:29 Mr_Pardison as in the node rotates after being placed?
16:30 IhrFussel Yes ... I'm modifying a node that could be exploited on peestals (itemframes mod) because minetest.rotate_and_place() doesn't seem to take from the stack when used with pedestals
16:30 IhrFussel pedestals*
16:30 Mr_Pardison I've seen that tree trunks when placed sometimes rotate for some reason.
16:31 Mr_Pardison I think it might be due to where the player is relative to the node.
16:31 nerzhul joined #minetest-hub
16:31 IhrFussel The original line in the definition was on_place = minetest.rotate_and_place which works fine when placed by a player BUT on pedestals the stack doesn't reduce meaning unlimited items
16:31 Mr_Pardison I got nothing on that front.
16:33 IhrFussel My "bugfix" for now is replacing on_place with after_place_node() and I put itemstack:take_item() return itemstack end which works fine now EXCEPT the node doesn't rotate and place anymore
16:33 Mr_Pardison have you tired limiting the number of items that can be placed on the pedestal?
16:33 IhrFussel Calling minetest.rotate_and_place inside after_place_node causes a crash "pointed_thing nil value"
16:34 Mr_Pardison based on that crash error, I would think that you would need to assign it a value.
16:34 Mr_Pardison not completely sure tho since I've barely started to dive in to lua
16:34 IhrFussel I think minetest.rotate_and_place is only designed for the on_place callback which transfers the parameters in a different order I think
16:37 IhrFussel The problem isn't the pedestals since all other node types work as expected with no exploit... the problematic nodes are also the only ones that use minetest.rotate_and_place so that's definitely the source of the problem
16:49 compunerd joined #minetest-hub
16:53 Megaf Don't you hate when you set your flags in ./configure AND as a variable in make yet the compiler ignores it?
16:53 Megaf minetest@Blacknium:/dev/shm/SQLITE_BUILD $ time make CXX_FLAGS="-march=native -mfpmath=both -Ofast -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer -funroll-loops" C_FLAGS="-march=native -mfpmath=both -Ofast -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer -funroll-loops" -j 4
16:53 Megaf gcc  -g -O2 -o mksourceid /dev/shm/sqlite/tool/mksourceid.c
16:53 Megaf gcc  -g -O2 -o lemon /dev/shm/sqlite/tool/lemon.c
16:54 Megaf sfan5: ideias why is that happening? ^
16:54 Megaf It seems to have gotten other flags right though, it's just not using the -Ofast
16:55 sofar sqlite makefile just hardcodes it I think
16:56 Megaf well, there's not a huge performance gain in Ofast from O2 I think
16:56 sofar you'd have to test it
16:56 sofar we patch the heck out of it in clearlinux
16:56 Megaf According to my tests I got a nice performance gain from other flags, make specific flags
16:56 sofar so there's significant gains to be had
16:57 Megaf I mean, sqlite specific
16:57 Megaf like disabling threadsafe
16:57 sofar https://github.com/clearlinux-pkgs/sqlite-autoconf
16:57 Megaf -DSQLITE_THREADSAFE=0 <- nice performance gain from here
16:57 Megaf sofar: by we you mean yourself included?
16:58 sofar "we" as in "the Intel ClearLinux team"
16:59 Megaf I could join the project (Can't already imagine solar reaction if I do)
17:00 sofar I'm sure we have a few job openings atm
17:00 sofar we usually do
17:00 sofar "solar"?
17:00 * Mr_Pardison posts a "now hiring, apply within" sign
17:00 Megaf sofar*
17:00 Mr_Pardison also, welcome to RC's irc sofar.
17:00 Megaf High Sierra auto correct...
17:00 sofar ah, lol
17:01 Megaf sofar, I could do with a job.
17:02 sofar intel.com/jobs
17:02 sofar (seriously, that's the best way to start)
17:02 * Mr_Pardison makes a note of this
17:02 Megaf sofar: even if I'm not the biggest intel fan?
17:03 sofar critical employees are vital for tech companies
17:03 sofar (critical ~= fanboyism)
17:06 Megaf sofar, I really don't see Intel hiring me :P I'm quite confident of my skill, I just thing they are not interested
17:07 Mr_Pardison well, I must depart for now.
17:07 Megaf nobody care for a nerd who is very good in finding bugs and is driven by perfection
17:07 Mr_Pardison I will c y'all in a bit.
17:07 Megaf cya Mr_Pardison
17:07 sofar megaf: what the actual BLEEP
17:07 Mr_Pardison Megaf: same here! I like to find bugs and stuff.
17:07 Mr_Pardison but the perfection part not so much.
17:07 sofar do you know how many people around me have that exact same attitude?
17:07 Mr_Pardison k now I'm out.
17:07 Mr_Pardison left #minetest-hub
17:08 sofar literally, everyone
17:08 Megaf sofar, yep. But I can't code
17:08 sofar we all pretend
17:08 sofar most of the time, anyway
17:08 shivajiva :)
17:08 Megaf I'm just a bridge, a link, between design, develop and user
17:09 Megaf See? I'm a Minetest player myself, admin a server, and now and then send PRs and report bugs.
17:09 sofar any tech company will hire you
17:09 Megaf sofar, I have been in the market for the last 4 years. Still unemployed.
17:09 sofar can you spell "steps to reproduce" ?
17:09 Megaf I don't believe in the tech industry anymore
17:10 sofar you don't have to
17:10 benrob0329 "I dont complain, I professionally complain"
17:10 Megaf Linux is part of my life sine 2003, when I transitioned from Windows Server 2003.
17:10 Megaf Always trying to squeeze the max performance from the hardware and software I can
17:10 Megaf well
17:10 Megaf I don't really say these things in my CV
17:10 Megaf maybe I should
17:12 sofar well, this offer stands for everyone: if you want me to review and help improve a resume, send it to me
17:12 sofar at: auke-jan.h.kok@intel.com
17:13 * Megaf see someone is actually hunting for new talents
17:14 Mr_Pardison joined #minetest-hub
17:15 Megaf sofar: Thank you. Will be reaching you this week
17:17 * shivajiva is impressed
17:18 Megaf Now, back to Minetest development. Anyone has any idea how can we do this? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1643
17:19 * Mr_Pardison goes back to gaming
17:20 Megaf rubenwardy: I will further investigate the server time clock and dedicated server step when minetestserver finishes building here. I'm making a local copy of it.
17:20 Megaf ( https://github.com/minetest/minetest​/issues/2408#issuecomment-232384313 )
17:25 Fixer Megaf: no wonder, shittons of IT people arrived into Ireland and saturated its market to no avail
17:26 Megaf Plenty of jobs for coders though
17:27 Fixer go into coding
17:27 Fixer if you like it ofc
17:29 sniper338 joined #minetest-hub
17:30 Megaf Fixer: I have ADHD, very real and serious case of it. For me coding can be extremely taxing because of that
17:30 Megaf Coding and maths
17:31 Megaf hm
17:31 Megaf cmake is failing to identify the compilers in Raspbian
17:31 Megaf weird
17:32 Megaf I just built SQLite and LuaJIT, I promise the compilers are just fine
17:32 Megaf -- The C compiler identification is unknown
17:32 Megaf -- The CXX compiler identification is unknown
17:32 Megaf -- Check for working C compiler: /usr/bin/cc
17:32 Megaf -- Check for working C compiler: /usr/bin/cc -- broken
17:32 Megaf CMake Error at /usr/share/cmake-3.7/Modules​/CMakeTestCCompiler.cmake:51 (message):
17:32 Megaf The C compiler "/usr/bin/cc" is not able to compile a simple test program.
17:32 Megaf oops, sorry for flood, pressed the wrong button.
17:32 Megaf but there you have it
17:33 Megaf Im doing CC=/usr/bin/gcc-6 CXX=/usr/bin/cpp-6 cmake
17:33 sofar c++6
17:33 sofar not cpp6?
17:34 sofar err c++-6 instead of cpp-6
17:34 sofar cpp != c++
17:34 Megaf anyway, it's failing with cc
17:34 sofar but, there are better ways of calling a different cc
17:35 Megaf make is just completely ignoring CC=/usr/bin/gcc CPP=/usr/bin/c++
17:35 Megaf as is searing /usr/bin/cc
17:37 Megaf well, cc ultimately links to gcc anyway, so it should work
17:37 Megaf minetest@Blacknium:/run/shm/BuildMegafServer $ cc --version
17:37 Megaf cc (Raspbian 6.3.0-18+rpi1) 6.3.0 20170516
17:38 Megaf make used to take environment variables to get the compiler binary, don't know why it isn't working anymore
17:40 Megaf editing CmakeCache and setting compiler that doesn't work either.
17:40 Megaf -- Check for working C compiler: /usr/bin/clang -- broken
17:41 Megaf (cmake actually is taking and using environment variables, as long as CMakeCache is not present)
17:41 Megaf but it still can't use the compilers
17:42 Megaf Problem solved.
17:42 Megaf gcc: error: unrecognized command line option ‘-mfpmath=both’
17:43 Megaf I compiled LuaJIT and SQLite with that flag, but for some reason it doesn't work in Minetest
17:43 Krock joined #minetest-hub
17:45 IhrFussel Someone joins your server and calls themselves "Beta tester" ... then complains about lag
17:47 Krock Why aren't you a beta tester too? Like we all in here are and we target to the best performance.
17:51 Mr_Pardison lol
17:51 Mr_Pardison to the name.
17:51 IhrFussel I just find it a bit *rude* to complain about (minimal) lag on a content rich server ... of course some trade-offs have to be made with so many features
17:51 Mr_Pardison also, greetings Krock
17:52 IhrFussel Some people probaby compare MT server performance to Minecraft's
17:52 atorian37 joined #minetest-hub
17:52 Mr_Pardison if they do, then they are doing something wrong.
17:53 IhrFussel I cannot even optimize my server more...there is a limitation (IO wait) and there's no way around it right now... I can just try to tune the conf settings to an extent
17:53 Krock hi Mr_Pardison. What name?
17:53 * Krock checks logs
17:54 IhrFussel Oh his name wasn't "Beta_Tester" he just said in the chat "Hi I'm a server Beta Tester"
17:55 Megaf Place your bets on how long will it take for my Raspberry 2 with 4 ARMv7 cores running at 1 GHz to build minutest server
17:55 Mr_Pardison what IhrFussel said about a player joining and calling themselves "beta tester".
17:55 nerzhul joined #minetest-hub
17:56 CWz joined #minetest-hub
17:56 IhrFussel Mr_Pardison, his account wasn't "Beta_Tester" but nonetheless he made me feel like he was calling me a "bad admin"
17:57 Mr_Pardison how can one be a bad admin fi they attend to there server and make sure things run nicely?
17:57 Mr_Pardison *if
17:57 IhrFussel Well a few smaller lags apparently make him think that the admin has no idea of running a server
17:58 sofar publishing data and monitoring it are ways to handle criticism
17:58 sofar if you're open about it, you get a more positive response
17:59 IhrFussel I have no access to a faster medium either...no SSD or something like that, my hoster doesn't offer that for the "low" price I pay
17:59 rubenwardy how do you actually monitor lag? You can be matching the dedicated_server_step, and still have issues
17:59 rubenwardy really you want to see the network send/receive, and compare it to limits
17:59 rubenwardy heh
17:59 sofar hence: https://minetest.foo-projects.org/status.html
17:59 Megaf rubenwardy: /status see max lag and other things there
18:00 sofar we should do some work to monitor client udp rtt as well
18:00 rubenwardy max_lag is helpful to see blocking actions
18:00 IhrFussel max_lag is a bad indicator...max_lag right now shows 3.5 but my own /lag command shows me avg lag is 0.165 secs so not too bad
18:00 rubenwardy s/actions/lua scripts/g
18:00 Megaf we have /lag?
18:00 sofar he does
18:00 Megaf IhrFussel: Send PR for that :)
18:00 sofar there are many ways to measure responsiveness
18:01 Megaf Time to build minetestserver on my Raspberry Pi 2 = real    17m6.043s
18:01 IhrFussel I linked my avg_lag mod here a few weeks ago...one sec maybe I still got the zip
18:02 IhrFussel http://ihrfussels-server.tk/lagmod.tar.gz should be it
18:02 Megaf Will eat something, cya
18:05 rubenwardy jeez, indentation would be good :D
18:05 IhrFussel max_lag 4.6 /lag only shows 1 critical tick (1+ secs) which means the max_lag was caused by map_save_interval
18:06 IhrFussel Which only runs once per minute right now ... rubenwardy I do my codding in nano, indentation isn't really doable there
18:07 IhrFussel coding*
18:07 rubenwardy lol
18:07 rubenwardy wow
18:07 sofar m_lag/max_lag is pretty brutal about spikes, yes
18:07 sofar but considering everyone uses it as a measure, it's not necessarily unfair
18:07 IhrFussel Yes one spike for several minutes is enough to make players think the server is a lag fest
18:08 rubenwardy IhrFussel, you do an average in that
18:08 rubenwardy whereas max_lag looks for the biggest server step essentially
18:08 rubenwardy with some gradual settingly down (x0.8 per something?)
18:08 sofar IhrFussel: only fair thing to do would be to change the value for everyone, not just for your server
18:09 IhrFussel I know but the highest step could have been quite a few minutes ago and still is a bit high then while /lag already shows 0 critical lags again
18:09 sofar we should rather add avg_lag and min_lag?
18:09 sofar again, more data is more sense
18:10 IhrFussel I already suggested something like avg lag to be added...not sure what happened with that issue or if I ever created one...maybe I just discussed it here
18:13 IhrFussel I think that's what a few people suggested in the "replace ping with m_lag" PR ... a way to measure the actual avg lag
18:13 sofar we should *add* it rather than replacing the max_lag
18:13 IhrFussel Which m_lag basically is by the way... it is not max_lag I think cause it shows values between 150-200 for my server
18:16 sofar add min_lag while we're at it
18:17 rubenwardy you could just avoid long freezes by splitting up work across steps/ticks
18:19 IhrFussel Can the server only save 1 mapblock per step by the way?
18:20 IhrFussel Cause I get the feeling lower step interval = more DB access ... maybe I'm wrong though
18:24 IhrFussel I only know that sending mapblocks/updating them client-side is tied to the server steps
18:24 sofar 1 mapblock save would be difficult
18:24 sofar but I'm sure you could limit it to some reasonable number
18:25 sofar more db access means smaller work chunks means less lag spikes
18:25 sofar set it to 0.1
18:25 sofar then see what happens
18:25 sofar probably high IO, but lower lag spikes
18:25 Fixer max_lag is server lag over big period of time, pep0l want more instanteneous measurement of lag
18:25 sofar people don't want lag
18:26 sofar it's all irrelevant, anyway
18:26 sofar the only thing that matters is how you rank amongst fairly measured peers
18:26 Fixer max_lag can say 10, but in this very moment it can be 0.00000000000001
18:26 Fixer nevermind
18:26 sofar that's why ranking is better than raw data, for players
18:27 IhrFussel sofar, but isn't high IO wait what's causing the lags? I'm pretty sure it is
18:27 sofar you'd see more writes total
18:27 sofar but only smaller amounts per interval
18:27 IhrFussel When my server lags for a few secs I see IO wait for Emerge-0 at 50-80%
18:27 sofar honestly, try setting it to some ridiculously small value and run it like that for a few hours
18:28 sofar sub-0.5 or so
18:28 sofar my bet is that it will improve the enormous spikes a lot
18:28 IhrFussel Well...I could try that, nothing to lose
18:28 sofar at the cost of some other value somewhere else
18:28 sofar at least the data will be useful
18:29 IhrFussel And map_save_interval?
18:29 sofar yes
18:29 sofar same
18:29 rubenwardy sorry if any core devs got any notifications, was just playing with https://github.com/blog/2471-​introducing-team-discussions
18:30 rubenwardy it's a good place to talk about any bad security issues or our nefarious plans of ruining the game
18:31 sofar ah, nice
18:31 rubenwardy direct link: https://github.com/orgs/minetest​/teams/team-minetest/discussions
18:31 sofar so let's talk about the unrestricted CSM stuff there
18:31 rubenwardy oh yeah
18:31 rubenwardy minetest.run_shell_command
18:31 Krock tested the reply function just now. seems to work
18:31 rubenwardy minetest.get_root_on_host
18:32 sofar I was thinking minetest.send_player_credentials() and minetest.desktop_screenshot()
18:32 sofar minetest.send_key_strokes()
18:32 IhrFussel minetest.enable_webcam() ;)
18:33 rubenwardy should totally add webcam support
18:33 sofar sexual harassment is kind of out of fashion
18:33 rubenwardy require players to send a photo of their ID and debit card to get a centralised account
18:33 Krock IhrFussel, no need to. defaults to enabled and recording to public stream ofc
18:34 sofar true, everyone live streams anyway
18:34 sofar cptunderpants
18:34 rubenwardy implement face recognition on login, will allow players to share their password without worry
18:35 Calinou `minetest.desktop_screenshot()`
18:35 Calinou like PunkBuster? :D
18:35 Calinou PunkBuster*
18:36 Calinou (it has a "screenshot to admin" functionaity)
18:36 rubenwardy that should be an engine feature
18:36 rubenwardy stop pushing features to mods, god damn it
18:36 rubenwardy good for checking for cheating
18:40 Fixer "stop pushing features to mods, god damn it" +1
18:40 Mr_Pardison missed a lot while at lunch.
18:40 Mr_Pardison meh.
18:40 rubenwardy Fixer, I was actually being satirical :D
18:41 Megaf Imagine going to college in one of these https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhnjMdzGusc
18:41 Fixer rubenwardy: stop being satirical, MTG needs features NOW
18:41 rubenwardy Fixer, MTG is a set of mods
18:41 Fixer yeah
18:41 rubenwardy I'd like to see more features in it
18:41 Fixer Merge MOAR
18:41 IhrFussel But is that the actual general opinion of core devs? "engine doesn't need those features, mods can implement them"
18:41 rubenwardy well, I can say that crafting may be easier in 0.5.0
18:41 rubenwardy <_<
18:41 rubenwardy >_>
18:42 Mr_Pardison >.<
18:42 Mr_Pardison easier crafting?
18:42 rubenwardy ^_^
18:42 * Mr_Pardison likes a challenge
18:42 rubenwardy https://github.com/minetest-mods/craftguide/co​mmit/64a711530f4503644b08ce98f920dbe5eccba743
18:43 * Megaf wishes new features were not added while old features still broken and slow
18:43 rubenwardy Megaf, Minetest does have a lot of technical debt
18:43 Mr_Pardison fix them then add in broken ones.
18:43 rubenwardy but MTG less so
18:43 rubenwardy as there's very little in it
18:44 Fixer MERGE ALL THE THINGS / starts vaporwave
18:44 rubenwardy alright proller
18:44 IhrFussel I'm pretty sure I have at least 10 mods installed that wouldn't need to be if the engine supported it (plus it would be way faster) like auto item collecting, wieldview, actibity tracking
18:44 sofar blocking features and keeping the code hostage is a certain way to kill MT
18:44 rubenwardy / thexyz
18:44 rubenwardy lol
18:44 IhrFussel activity*
18:45 rubenwardy r/crazyideas: require core devs to make 3 bug fixes before merging a feature of their own
18:45 Mr_Pardison not crazy.
18:45 Mr_Pardison IMO rather smart.
18:45 sofar you sound like a republican
18:45 Mr_Pardison forces them to fix them before they add in something smart.
18:45 sofar I mean
18:45 Mr_Pardison *something. smart
18:45 sofar LITERALLY you sound like one particular one
18:45 Mr_Pardison to whom are you speaking?
18:46 rubenwardy ^
18:46 sofar http://www.dailywire.com/news/18844/great-trump-p​romised-cut-2-regulations-every-new-james-barrett
18:46 Krock it's yuge
18:46 Fixer wall
18:46 Mr_Pardison no way m8.
18:46 rubenwardy BUILD A WALL
18:46 sofar the problem is that it sounds appealing
18:46 rubenwardy sheet, my cover has been blown
18:47 Fixer sheet?
18:47 sofar but reality is that hostage taking == hostage taking
18:47 Mr_Pardison I'm analytical and I can actually look at what I've done and see where I have gone wrong and attempt to fix those or not commit that error in the future.
18:47 rubenwardy the equivalent of that would be cutting 2 feature for every new one
18:47 sofar it's still hostage taking
18:48 sofar I don't negotiate with terrorists :)
18:48 rubenwardy \o/
18:48 Mr_Pardison neither does the US government.
18:49 sofar well, nothing wrong with getting people to fix bug
18:49 sofar s
18:50 sofar but you will get better results with a different way of motivating developers
18:50 rubenwardy give core devs 10 up votes a month
18:50 rubenwardy give 2 more for every bug fix
18:50 Calinou wow, Minetest politics
18:50 Mr_Pardison carrot before using the stick?
18:50 rubenwardy and for $5 you can get 50
18:50 Mr_Pardison o/ Calinou
18:50 Calinou hi
18:50 rubenwardy (I hope people realise I'm joking)
18:51 sofar I would seriously consider spending a lot of time fixing engine bugs if there was a monetary reward of significance
18:52 rubenwardy so would most people
18:52 sofar 500$ for a significant bug... hell yeah
18:52 * Megaf gives sofar 10 cents
18:52 rubenwardy problem is there's no money in MT
18:52 sofar the thing is, for 10c, I'm gonna stay coding on what I find enjoyable
18:52 rubenwardy (also a bonus)
18:52 Megaf that could be as high as 2000 USD if I had a high paying job
18:52 Mr_Pardison quid pro quo's?
18:52 sofar since I barely have free time :)
18:52 rubenwardy what is 10c in p?
18:52 rubenwardy hmm
18:53 rubenwardy is a cent 0.01$?
18:53 Megaf yes...
18:53 Megaf cent = 1/100
18:53 Megaf 1 USD = 100 cents
18:53 Megaf or 1 EUR = 100 cents too
18:54 rubenwardy I mean, I'd be happy with that for this: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/cd1140f69cf31c6c3885dd81c64e505ac1559487
19:04 rubenwardy I think we really need to work on making the project more friendly to new contributors, and better in code quality generally
19:04 rubenwardy there's zero documentation and 3000 line files
19:05 rubenwardy plus I found an uninitialised variable bug the other week (thanks to Shara) which just shouldn't have passed code review
19:05 rubenwardy \o/
19:05 rubenwardy I also need time to work on Minetest \o/
19:06 Mr_Pardison And I need to work on getting into college.
19:24 Fixer "making the project more friendly to new contributors, and better in code quality generally" i was saying just this for years, nobody cares
19:26 rubenwardy Fixer, it's hard
19:26 Mr_Pardison joined #minetest-hub
19:30 Fixer other projects are eager to accept contributions and new ideas, and here it is meh, will look into it, review in 10 years, rotten prs, etc
19:30 rubenwardy Fixer, the problem is that it's very hard to review code
19:30 rubenwardy as there are very little unit tests
19:31 Fixer other projects probably have very same situation, they just accept it as a fact and review what the can, and fix bugs along the way it seems
19:31 rubenwardy and there's code mess which makes it hard to understand
19:32 rubenwardy we need more people to do reviews and test PRs, even if they're not a dev
19:32 Fixer at least MTG development should be more open, engine is quite stable and does not need rushing but contributions should be rewarded
19:33 rubenwardy it doesn't help when you get PRs like this: https://github.com/minetest​/minetest/pull/3653/commits
19:34 ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-hub
19:34 Mr_Pardison wb ThomasMonroe
19:34 twoelk joined #minetest-hub
19:34 ThomasMonroe thx Mr_Pardison
19:47 Fixer rubenwardy: merge @ pray
19:51 rubenwardy lol
19:51 rubenwardy yay quality control
19:52 rubenwardy we need Lua API unit tests, to make sure things don't break
20:01 twoelk making testing easier might generate more testers  :-P
20:04 Fixer rubenwardy: someone who does PR needs to actually test it so it can be merged with less prayers
20:04 Fixer ._.
20:07 twoelk one does tend to be somewhat blind finding bugs in one's own code and may have worked on solving a certain issue keeping one from thinking of other usecases - there is a reason for the <many eyes> principle
20:10 Jordach tfw 94% first time on a Cisco module
20:10 Fixer then PRs should be small in size to ve reviewed easier
20:12 Megaf joined #minetest-hub
20:16 Calinou Jordach: sorry to hear that :D
20:16 Calinou (I mean, CIsco)
20:16 Calinou Cisco*
20:16 Megaf What did I miss?
20:18 Fixer not much
20:18 Mr_Pardison not much other than complaining about how blind we are to bugs in our own code and testing stuff.
20:18 Fixer "not much" feels strange
20:18 Megaf !seen paramat
20:18 MinetestBot Megaf: paramat was last seen at 2017-11-28 03:16:04 UTC on #minetest-hub
20:18 ShadowBot Megaf: I saw paramat in #minetest-hub 2 days, 14 hours, 57 minutes, and 29 seconds ago saying "i assume the server loads in the mapblock(s) that contain the requested volume"
20:19 Megaf we need ShadowBot removed
20:20 Jordach Calinou, got one item wrong
20:20 Jordach :^)
20:21 ShadowBot was kicked by rubenwardy: ShadowBot
20:22 rubenwardy idiot
20:22 A_Hamilton My name Is Alexander Hamilton, and there's a million things I haven't done. But just you wait, just you wait.
20:23 Calinou I'm here to mine nodes and chew bubblegum, and I'm all outta gum.
20:23 A_Hamilton I shoot first and ask question never.
20:26 Fixer https://tech.slashdot.org/story/17/11/28/181218/m​icrosoft-sees-the-future-of-windows-10-as-sets-di​tching-windows-for-a-tabbed-app-interface?utm_sou​rce=feedburner&amp;utm_medium=feed&amp;utm_campai​gn=Feed%3A+Slashdot%2Fslashdot+%28Slashdot%29
20:26 Fixer ---p
20:26 Fixer forgot to remove that utm_source crap
20:27 Fixer "HP Touchpoint Analytics Service"
20:27 Fixer everyone wants to sell me out
20:29 Aerozoic joined #minetest-hub
20:31 paramat joined #minetest-hub
20:38 Fixer "Firefox’s Interface Is Still Extremely Customizable" i failed to move that hamburger to left side
20:38 Jordach thb Fixer something like that is super useful in enterprise env
20:39 Jordach tbh*
20:39 Jordach considering most users can't understand the start menu from their browser
20:39 Jordach (arsehole and elbow analogy)
20:39 Jordach something like that is fantastic for enterprise
20:39 Jordach as IT can just scroll back to find the documents without third party apps
20:40 ImNotHere Mozilla Firefox beta slightly broken on Debian Experimental  https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/MfwHAD​I4/Screenshot%20from%202017-11-28%2020-38-36.png
20:40 Jordach >slightly broken
20:40 Jordach lolwat
20:40 Jordach you mean fucked so much it's gone through the earth to reach china, right
20:41 CloudyTiger I guess so Jordach
20:41 CloudyTiger Guess that's what you get when you get beta and experimental together
20:42 CloudyTiger ~$ firefox --version
20:42 CloudyTiger Mozilla Firefox 58.0
20:42 CloudyTiger --version still work tho
20:43 Fixer Jordach: i have no idea what you talking about
20:45 twoelk left #minetest-hub
20:47 Jordach Fixer, think of sets as folders for actual x86 and files together
20:47 Jordach rather than say, recent jump lists
20:50 Fixer .______.
20:50 Jordach CloudyTiger, do mozilla keep hiring these guys
20:50 Jordach https://i.imgur.com/YAgCz9x.png
20:52 Jordach Fixer, https://i.imgur.com/izSJrRg.png
20:53 Fixer don't run as root
20:56 CloudyTiger lol Jordach
20:56 Jordach >builds a web browser including outside of webpage rendering in JS
20:56 Jordach that is why chrome is preferred
20:57 Jordach (and why node is hated by almost any C dev)
20:57 Jordach it's literally: programming: for dummies the language
21:02 Megaf well, Firefox 0.57 works as expected
21:02 Megaf no issues at all
21:03 Megaf reinstalling 58 now
21:03 rubenwardy occassionally pages freeze on 57, and switching to another tab and back causing spinning
21:03 benrob0329 Megaf: unless you run ALSA, in which case WebRTC is broke as all hell
21:03 rubenwardy sorry, spinning meaning the whole page is white and a spinning indicator appears
21:04 benrob0329 Also known as broke auto focus, if you have that sense of humor :P
21:05 Megaf 58 broken
21:05 Megaf purged all files to no avail
21:05 Jordach >using ALSA in 2017
21:07 Calinou https://media.hugo.pro/fire​fox_2017-11-28_22-05-29.png
21:07 Calinou world record on the Snake game of https://nim-lang.org/features.html :P
21:08 benrob0329 Jordach: everything else is either overkill or broken :^)
21:10 Jordach >Nim includes a first-class JavaScript backend
21:10 Jordach NORMIES GET OUT
21:24 ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-hub
21:31 Jordach https://jordach.net/images/yqnpufunwemzwurrr.png
21:31 Jordach benrob0329, ^
21:41 Fixer Jordach: programmming of DOOM, user is DOOMED
21:52 paramat rubenwardy did i understand this correctly? https://github.com/minetest/minetest​/issues/6699#issuecomment-347671425
21:53 rubenwardy paramat, imo CSM should be only for server-provided CSM mods, and be used for a builtin-like think
21:53 rubenwardy *thing
21:53 rubenwardy so it's not about it being controversial, but more I think that client features should mostly be C++ and CSM to allow mod client side prediction
21:54 paramat "and be used for" did you maean 'not'?
21:54 rubenwardy yeah, not
21:54 rubenwardy oops
21:55 paramat does the current situation mean that certain CSM functions cannot be disabled because vanilla MT relies on them?
21:56 rubenwardy hope not
21:56 paramat death formspec?
21:57 paramat that's what the discussion implies (maybe)
21:59 paramat anyway i agree CSM should be server-provided only, once that is added
22:05 Fixer firefox 57 was crashing for my friend though
22:07 paramat anyway, server owners please support https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6699 "Server setting for complete disable of client-provided CSM"
22:10 Shara paramat: big thumb up from me
22:12 Megaf From me too
22:12 Shara (also lua_api.txt = what in the world was anyone thinking :( )
22:12 Shara (mess mess mess mess mess!)
22:12 benrob0329 I'm not a server owner, but it gets my support
22:12 luizrpgluiz joined #minetest-hub
22:13 Megaf I still thing we are just wasting neurons with this CSM thing, It should just get 100% removed from the code. All problems solved.
22:13 Megaf wasting neurons and time
22:13 Shara I'd be fine with that, and even happy to be honest
22:14 Shara Fix the mess and worry about additions like that once there is a solid base to build them on, then give them proper consideration to begin with
22:15 Fixer Megaf: nope, cheating was way before CSM ever existed - fly, noclip, automine, long reach, autoeat...
22:15 luizrpgluiz left #minetest-hub
22:15 Megaf Fixer, I'm not even saying from a cheating perspective
22:15 Shara Fixer: pretty sure he just meant CSM mess solved
22:15 benrob0329 Fixer: But this doesn't require c++ editing
22:15 Shara We're well aware cheating isn't only due to CSM
22:16 Megaf paramat, well done in adding "High Priority" label
22:16 Megaf It gets some attention with that
22:16 Shara Needs an "absolutely vital label really :)
22:17 Megaf Can't disagree with that
22:17 benrob0329 new label "You Shall Not Pass!!"
22:17 Fixer *,,,,,,,,,,,*
22:18 Fixer new label "Please help make MTG great again"
22:18 Shara I'm wondering...
22:18 Shara If I work on lua_api.txt mess....
22:18 Shara Will I end up making so many PRs that the devs get annoyed enough to ban me from making them? :D
22:19 Megaf for some reason the building of minetesetserver has been stuck at 96% for hours. http://paste.debian.net/998067/
22:20 Fixer Shara: PRs are good, if Wuzzy gets banned, you will need to worry
22:20 Fixer feedback/contribution is always good
22:20 Fixer minetest just needs to bring walls down
22:21 Shara Not sure if you noticed the storm of silly trivial PRs I'm making lately
22:21 Shara But I feel like chipping some walls walls to pieces until they fall down all by themselves
22:21 Shara Documentation issues are ridiculous
22:22 Shara And people post issues about them, but where are the PRs to fix them?
22:22 Shara Can't they make PRs?
22:22 Fixer i don't see any storm in PRs
22:22 Shara (Hint: I know they can)
22:22 Aerozoic joined #minetest-hub
22:23 Shara Fixer: I more than doubled my total PRs to MT this month
22:23 Megaf Shara, I cant find any recent PR from you
22:23 Shara Megaf: odd, considering most recent PR merged was me
22:24 Fixer look closed PRs
22:24 Shara Look here: https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest/commits/master
22:24 Megaf Yep
22:24 Megaf they are all closed already
22:24 Fixer Shara: you had 11 commits this month, second place
22:24 Shara Main menu formsepc allignments and documentation related mostly
22:25 Fixer Shara: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pulse/monthly
22:25 Shara I had 7.. not sure how those stats work :)
22:25 Megaf well done in this one, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/6625
22:25 Megaf it's in the little things...
22:25 Shara I'll have another one in tonight
22:26 Shara Because I noticed lua_api.txt switches randomly between tabs and spaces for indentation
22:26 Megaf oh, that's what you were talking about in mess
22:26 Shara And now that I noticed, I can't even look at it without getting annoyed :D
22:27 benrob0329 tabs for life :PP
22:27 Shara But fixes that document will be long, slow, painful mess
22:27 Shara fixing*
22:27 Shara benrob0329: in this case, spaces, sadly
22:27 benrob0329 Shara: use an editor
22:27 Fixer i especially liked that fix for two buttons, OCD has been decreased
22:27 benrob0329 like vim, and retab
22:28 Shara benrob0329: uhhh... my editor is quite fine thanks
22:28 Shara Fixer: which fix?
22:28 benrob0329 heck, if its spaces then it should be even easier
22:28 Fixer Shara: probably not yours
22:28 Megaf Shara, luaapti.txt uses mostly spaces
22:28 benrob0329 just convert tabs to spaces (after setting tab length)
22:28 Shara well, it's about 5k lines using spaces to 50ish using tabs
22:28 Megaf I rather have it all in tabs tho
22:28 Shara I prefer tabs generally, but not going to make the devs review 5k lines of indentation changes
22:29 Megaf just use sed
22:29 Megaf if that's even possible ot use sed for that
22:29 Shara I love how everyone thing automated answers fix everything
22:29 benrob0329 Shara: they make life easier
22:30 Shara Doesn't work here though
22:30 Shara For example... github displays tabs and spaces (4 in this case) differently
22:30 Shara So in some cases we've had people use incorrect levels of indentation to make things look like they allign, when they don't
22:31 Shara When you convert all into spaces (or tabs) they no longer align
22:31 Megaf For compatibility spaces is a better choice
22:31 Shara SO you actually do need to look at it
22:31 Megaf since every editor will give a different amount of space for tabs
22:32 benrob0329 Shara: what is a line with tabs?
22:32 Megaf I almost went crazy last week with identations, my web git used one amount of space, nano used different amount of space and the IDE I was using yet a different amount of space for tabs
22:32 Megaf so I just removed all tabs from my code and swtiched to spaced
22:32 Megaf spaces*
22:32 Fixer compile time
22:33 Shara thankfully no need to compile .txt files :)
22:33 benrob0329 Megaf: thats why you use one editor, or configure each editor to display tabs the same
22:33 Shara ^
22:33 benrob0329 now I may go crazy over your code's indentation
22:34 * benrob0329 posted a file: lua_api.txt (227KB) <https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/down​load/matrix.org/oJrIytYejcFcEnSxLJDgqDtJ>
22:34 benrob0329 Shara: ^^
22:34 benrob0329 that should reduce the amount of work needed to fix it
22:35 Shara Not seeing your point benrob0329
22:35 Shara It's easy to fix
22:35 Megaf you will not find this piece of code benrob0329
22:35 Megaf I can't find it myself :P
22:35 Megaf Don't worry
22:35 Shara I just rather fix it properly instead of the sloppy approach of find/replace which people seem to think works
22:35 Megaf I don't even remember what I had written it for
22:35 benrob0329 Shara: very well
22:35 Fixer "'E'ating soup from a tin located in a dragged shopping cart dumps the remainder of the soup on the floor. [Bug] " If only MTG was that DEEP
22:36 Fixer oh, i found a nice tag: Easy Fix, we should use it
22:37 Megaf That's the type of title I'd use https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6701
22:37 Megaf "Debug output looks strange" ^
22:37 paramat lua api should indent with spaces, as is the norm for txt docs
22:38 Megaf that ^
22:38 Megaf :+1:
22:38 Shara paramat: expect PR for this before I sleep
22:38 Fixer you sure?
22:38 Shara :)
22:39 paramat cool, i'll merge it before any conflicts
22:39 Shara thanks
22:39 benrob0329 Why is it a .txt is if is formatted in markdown?
22:39 Megaf Shara, can you add luizrpgluiz to voice list please?
22:39 Shara will be ready soon
22:39 benrob0329 *if it is
22:39 Fixer benrob0329: so it can be opened in any OS
22:40 Megaf another veteran and sometimes modder
22:40 Shara Megaf: don't see them?
22:40 Fixer it is pretty much plain txt
22:40 paramat yeah many reasons
22:40 Megaf He is coming
22:40 Shara Get them in here and will add
22:40 paramat MD makes it a pain for devs
22:40 Megaf must be AFK or sotmhing
22:40 Fixer i wonder if it is possible to use name.md.txt and get over it :p
22:40 Shara paramat: I'm just double checking a few lines at the moment, because some are weird once I fix the indents
22:41 luizrpgluiz joined #minetest-hub
22:41 Megaf Shara, here he is ^
22:42 paramat the next job might be line length down to 80-90
22:42 Shara paramat: sure, but that will be more time consuming
22:42 rubenwardy <Fixer> benrob0329: so it can be opened in any OS
22:42 rubenwardy not a valid reason
22:42 rubenwardy as for Windows we could just rename it
22:42 Fixer plain text editing for some reason gives me flashbacks of that printing from DOS to laser printer times (via Windows)
22:42 rubenwardy the reason is that it's currently harder to read
22:42 rubenwardy <paramat> MD makes it a pain for devs
22:42 rubenwardy also not true
22:42 Shara ^
22:43 Shara I'm actually using MD previews in some cases to check things
22:43 rubenwardy yeah
22:43 paramat it's hard to work with in github
22:43 Shara plus other documentation is in MD
22:43 Fixer rubenwardy: rename during building?
22:43 rubenwardy the issue is that there are lots of long sections, and github doesn't support anchors to line
22:43 Shara So this not being MD is rather silly
22:43 rubenwardy Fixer, no, when making the release for Windows
22:43 Amaz When it's formated as MD it's much easier to read for reference.
22:43 Fixer or that
22:43 luizrpgluiz hi
22:44 CalebDavis joined #minetest-hub
22:44 paramat most docs are txt, only client api was stupidly made md
22:44 Megaf Hi luizrpgluiz
22:44 luizrpgluiz hi all :)
22:44 Fixer running newest git
22:44 paramat i can't link someone to a line in a MD file at github
22:44 rubenwardy it's also really hard to search the docs, as find finds all occurrences, not the relevant ones
22:44 Megaf Thanks Shara
22:45 Shara Hello luizrpgluiz, and welcome
22:45 luizrpgluiz i am luizinho in brtest server
22:45 benrob0329 So..we make the docs look bad because Github sucks
22:45 rubenwardy essentially
22:45 Megaf !server brtest
22:45 MinetestBot Megaf: No results
22:45 benrob0329 Makes sense
22:45 Megaf luizrpgluiz, is the server running right now?
22:45 luizrpgluiz no Megaf
22:45 Megaf ok
22:45 rubenwardy not being in MD is the least of lua_api.txt's problem
22:46 luizrpgluiz server off
22:46 paramat i find MD less readable at github
22:46 Megaf MD is amazing, if you dont using ** and * and *** for bold and stuff, and instead use underline for that
22:46 Megaf like
22:46 Megaf This is a title
22:46 Megaf --------------
22:47 Megaf that's readable ^
22:47 luizrpgluiz yes
22:48 Fixer busted https://i.imgur.com/39DNN9n.png
22:48 Shara I can read MD or txt equally easily, but much prefer to look at MD
22:49 paramat MD also fills the txt file with a mess of symbols
22:49 Shara Since what we have now is basically MD symbols as txt, it already does that
22:50 paramat anyway, is there a way i can link to a line in an MD file at github, or display it as txt?
22:50 Shara Hmm, not sure
22:50 Shara Never tried, but that's a good point
22:53 EvergreenTree joined #minetest-hub
22:54 Shara https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/6705
22:54 paramat search reads the MD file text but then you can't click the line to go to the line in the file
22:54 Shara paramat / rubenwardy ^
22:54 Amaz You can display it as text by clicking on the "Raw" button at the top of the file, although that isn't like the github txt viewer. (e.g. https://raw.githubusercontent.com/minetes​t/minetest/master/doc/client_lua_api.md)
22:55 paramat yes but i can't link to a line
22:55 Amaz Yup
22:55 Amaz That's the main problem
22:55 ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-hub
22:55 paramat these points alone make txt preferable
22:55 Shara Sheer length of this file is the problem if you can't link to a line
22:55 paramat can't use search, can't link
22:56 rubenwardy need to find out how to make https://rubenwardy.com/minete​st_modding_book/lua_api.html load faster
22:56 rubenwardy that's the main reason I don't use it
22:56 paramat this is why almost all our docs are txt
22:56 rubenwardy plus the formatting isn't great :(
22:57 Shara if docs are meant to be txt, can I suggest switching the other one over to txt as well?
22:57 Shara Consistency really...
22:57 paramat well i'm going to do that
22:57 rubenwardy go ahead
22:57 rubenwardy +1
22:57 Shara You or me or anyone... I don't mind. But I feel like kicking up a fuss about the mess the docs were in
22:57 Shara are in*
22:57 paramat perhaps client_lua_api.md.txt ?
22:57 rubenwardy MD is the least of the issues though
22:58 Shara True
22:58 Shara But then it's a quick thing to change
22:58 benrob0329 Rewrite in LaTeX :P
22:58 paramat that file is another part of the arrogance of csm development
22:59 paramat ok i'll do the md file PR
22:59 Shara Anyway, I'm literally planning to go through PRs that have been marked documentation related and to try and fix things
22:59 Amaz paramat: Wouldn't client_lua_api.txt be more consistent with lua_api.txt?
22:59 * Shara agrees with Amaz
23:01 sofar I have no issues with .md, but it seems easier to read in `vi` than on github :D
23:02 Shara Hi sofar :P
23:02 paramat ok yes .txt
23:03 paramat i'll make that PR now and merge 6705 with it
23:04 Shara Thanks
23:04 benrob0329 sofar: its even easier in vim :PP
23:04 Fixer is there any hacking way to stop at least water blinking when looking undersea via glass?
23:05 Fixer hackish*
23:05 Fixer even dirty way
23:05 Fixer just stop it
23:06 benrob0329 Fixer: fix z buffer
23:07 Fixer thats massive
23:07 Fixer maybe there are more easier and dirtier methods
23:07 sofar Shara: I just got back from picking doors and handles...
23:07 paramat opaque water
23:08 sofar remove all wayter
23:08 Shara ...doors and handles?
23:08 benrob0329 sofar: remove all rendering
23:08 sofar wireframe
23:08 benrob0329 Heck, remove Minetest
23:09 benrob0329 Then we have no bugs at all :D
23:09 benrob0329 Wait, why dont we just spray it with some pesticides?
23:11 sofar Shara: and sidelights, and locks/hinges, and thresholds, and...
23:11 Shara You are now reminding me of the building work I have planned over christmas...
23:12 Shara If only real building worked like MT.
23:12 Megaf paramat, you didnt give an approval on #6705
23:12 Megaf And I thought "Trivial" could be merged with a single approve
23:13 Shara I think him saying he will merge it is good enough to cover that :P
23:14 Fixer paramat: in a way, yes
23:14 rubenwardy Megaf, only bug fixes technically
23:15 rubenwardy but no one follows that really
23:15 Megaf Well, it is kinda of a bug
23:15 Megaf it's a typo bug, tab was typed instead of space, it happens...
23:16 Shara Typo implies accidental but really knew better.. kind of
23:16 Shara This is just no one caring to check stuff at all
23:16 Fixer nah, opaque water is even weirder :/
23:17 Megaf Fixer, Shader issue
23:17 Megaf ?
23:17 Shara Though lua_api is actually well written compared to some things I've worked on.
23:17 Shara It's just the length and level of knowledge to check if everything is correct which is a bit of a barrier, or I'd have tried to do things with it by now
23:17 Fixer ImNotThere: no, alpha z-sorting issue
23:17 ImNotThere Fixer, GitHub issue open already?
23:18 Fixer ImNotThere: since ages
23:18 Fixer it is known, but not easy to solve
23:18 Fixer it is one of big graphical downsides of minetest
23:18 paramat 'trivial' PRs can be merged on a single approval, so it doesn't need mine, but added +1 anyway
23:18 EvergreenTree joined #minetest-hub
23:20 ImNotThere Fixer, What's your GitHub user?
23:20 Fixer ImNotThere: try guessing
23:21 rubenwardy xXxFixerxXx
23:22 Fixer https://github.com/supertu​xkart/stk-code/issues/1448 hah, not sure if totally related
23:22 ImNotThere well, there's no issues by Fixer nor Anonymvs
23:22 ImNotThere like, ever
23:22 Fixer i have different nickname, you will find it
23:24 ImNotThere Wuzzy2?
23:25 ImNotThere lol
23:25 ImNotThere cant find
23:25 ImNotThere well, time to go, brb
23:26 Fixer it seems irrlicht can do transperent sorting, but on per scene node (?)
23:33 Fixer i have provocative question
23:33 Fixer add command line parameter to specify /mods folder for minetest
23:34 Fixer since mod/modpacks conflicting not solved and nobody cares, this workaround can be nice idea* (potentially)
23:34 rubenwardy sounds good
23:35 rubenwardy the command line interface needs work generally
23:35 rubenwardy it's inconsistent
23:36 halt_ joined #minetest-hub
23:41 paramat ok merging those 2 now
23:42 Shara :)
23:52 paramat ahh such a relief, i can actually work with that file now without frustration
23:53 Fixer found few bugs in digall mod
23:53 paramat MD format is fine in docs, but they have to be .txt
23:56 * sofar out for work thing
23:57 sofar paramat: only thing now is that editors will not properly markup the file
23:57 sofar so it's a productivity loss, IMHO
23:57 Shara if they don't meet the standard for a document, devs should request them to correct it before merging, just as they would with code.
23:58 Fixer sofar: door handles made in China as usual?
23:58 Fixer sofar: just curious if that cancer is in USA too
23:58 sofar :so $VIMRUNTIME/syntax/markdown.vim
23:59 sofar that's really cumbersome...
23:59 sofar Fixer: no, my house will not have much China in it, since it's pretty much entirely custom

| Channels | #minetest-hub index | Today | | Google Search | Plaintext