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IRC log for #minetest-hub, 2017-11-26

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 compunerd Haven't worked with them yet though... I thought with containers, they all had to be the same OS...
00:00 Megaf They all do share the same kernel
00:00 compunerd Ok... that makes sense
00:01 Megaf but each container can have its own physical hard disk and NIC for example, if you want maximum performance
00:01 Megaf or you can use a partition as container disk, or disk disk images
00:02 Megaf Unfortunately I can't run Windows on a container. (In a Linux host that is)
00:02 compunerd Ok... I definitely need to check into that... can you direct me to a good resource?
00:03 Megaf The default container for linux is LXC
00:03 Megaf wich I dont use and dont like
00:03 Megaf Im using an outdated solution called OpenVZ
00:03 Megaf still using kernel 2.6.x
00:03 Megaf but the management of OpenVZ is amazing
00:03 benrob0329 Problem, set_node apparently doesnt work for ungenerated chunks
00:03 benrob0329 even when I force load it
00:04 benrob0329 is there a way for me to force generation of a chunk?
00:04 compunerd Why so old of a kernel? is it not compatible with newer ones?
00:04 Megaf compunerd, but you might want to take a look at OpenVZ 7
00:04 compunerd Ok... I definitely will
00:04 Megaf OpenVZ 7 is the current generation, its a whole OS built to run containers
00:05 IhrFussel benrob0329, minetest.foreload_block(pos) I think
00:05 IhrFussel forceload*
00:05 Megaf its almost like a hypervisor, but with much less overhead because its containers...
00:05 benrob0329 IhrFussel: even when forceloaded
00:05 benrob0329 looks like minetest.emerge_area might do it
00:05 Megaf I'm using OpenVZ 6. And kernel is old beucase it uses a patched Red Hat kernel
00:06 Megaf these patches are not compatible with newer kernels for some reason, and development switched to OpenVZ 7 and LXC
00:06 IhrFussel Oh wait...generation is different from loading
00:06 Megaf compunerd, https://openvz.org/Virt-mana​ger_support_for_Virtuozzo_7
00:06 Calinou #OccupyOpenVZ
00:06 Calinou I had an OpenVZ VPS last year and hated it :(
00:06 Calinou now I have a KVM one <3
00:06 Megaf compunerd, https://openvz.org/Virtuozzo
00:07 Megaf Calinou, if you are the one hosting the containers then its amazing
00:07 Calinou I just rent a VPS, not host them :)
00:07 Megaf if your VPS runs on OpenVZ and its slow. then its just your providers fault
00:07 Megaf my VPS is KVM, divided in several OpenVZ containers :)
00:08 Megaf Should I serve myself another glass of wine?
00:08 Megaf hm
00:08 Calinou it wasn't slow, it was tiresome to manage
00:09 Calinou I attempted upgrading to Ubuntu Server 16.04, had to reinstall 14.04 because the kernel was too old and couldn't be upgraded (the new libc didn't like it)
00:09 Calinou also, you cannot use Docker
00:09 Calinou Megaf: probably not :P
00:09 benrob0329 IhrFussel: yup, that worked
00:09 benrob0329 emergingj that pos seems to have done it
00:12 * Megaf serves himself another glass of wine
00:12 Megaf Time to have another sip and call ger
00:12 Megaf her*
00:17 Megaf giving ulimited cpu usage to a container compiling software is not the wisest idea
00:17 benrob0329 is there a way I can wait for emerge_area to finish?
00:18 Calinou Megaf: works for me
00:18 Calinou just don't use all CPU threads in the compiler :P
00:18 Megaf I did that
00:18 Megaf because single thread VPS...
00:19 Megaf somehow websites running on other contianers still loading
00:21 Megaf OK        Successfully built LuaJIT
00:21 Megaf Things are going well
00:26 Megaf Minetest stuff is deprecated as well!
00:26 Megaf return removeMember(key.c_str());
00:26 Megaf /run/shm/SourceMegafServer​/lib/jsoncpp/jsoncpp.cpp: In member function ‘Json::Value Json::Value::removeMember(const string&)’:
00:26 Megaf return removeMember(key.c_str());
00:27 Megaf -- *** Detected Git version 0.4.17-Megaf-7122ec8 ***
00:27 Megaf I cloned backport-0.4 ^
00:27 Megaf is that git tag correct?
00:33 * Jordach considered the downsides to using textured nodes
00:34 Jordach not worth it until it's properly engine sideed
00:35 Jordach s/textured/humid&heat based colouring/g
00:40 Megaf [100%] Linking CXX executable /run/shm/SourceMegafServer/bin/minetestserver
00:40 Megaf [100%] Built target minetestserver
00:40 Megaf Yay
00:40 Jordach paramat, retextued the snowflakes
00:40 Jordach https://jordach.net/images/yihjhbepsovzehfoei.png
00:42 benrob0329 Jordach: noice
00:43 * benrob0329 wonders why there doesnt appear to be a way to wait for wait for minetest.emerge_area
00:44 paramat yeah one of my flakes was ugly
00:47 paramat "a way to wait for wait for"?
00:47 paramat but yes use emerge area
00:48 benrob0329 paramat: its an async function, but I need it to finish before my function return
00:48 benrob0329 *returns
00:48 Jordach paramat, better rain particles
00:48 Jordach https://jordach.net/images/oerbdscluotosdhrjc.png
00:49 Jordach still 9x9
00:49 Jordach just 1x4 instead of 1x9
00:53 * IhrFussel just had an evil idea... make a command /makemeadmin and anyone who sends it gets kicked with the message "Congratz! You are now admin of your main menu"
00:53 * Jordach add hailstones to snowdrift
00:57 paramat ok i see what you mean by 'wait for'
00:58 paramat erm, i think you can use the lua voxel manipulator to load an area
00:59 paramat force load that is, worldedit does this
01:02 Jordach paramat, how does or get numbers
01:02 Jordach eg
01:02 Jordach 1 or 2
01:03 benrob0329 paramat: to load an ungenerated area?
01:03 Jordach does it pick at random or is it consistent
01:03 benrob0329 but isnt emerge_area part of voxelmanip..or is that a completely seperate set of functions?
01:04 Jordach F
01:04 sfan5 benrob0329: separate set
01:05 sfan5 but why do you want confirmation of emerging?
01:07 benrob0329 because all of this is for a timed sequence, and I would like to know if it succeeded or not
01:07 sfan5 and that timed sequence involves?
01:07 benrob0329 I suppose I can just assume it emerged fine
01:08 benrob0329 replacing nodes with other nodes in order using node timers, and only changing the lever used to initiate the sequence if it started correctly
01:09 sfan5 then use a vmanip?
01:09 * benrob0329 looks at vmanip
01:25 paramat joined #minetest-hub
01:28 paramat oops i'm not sure if vmanip will generate an ungenerated area
01:29 paramat lua voxel manipulator == vmanip == LVM
01:29 paramat Jordach, don't know
01:30 paramat lvm might just load an empty area of ignore if it's ungenerated
01:37 benrob0329 paramat: so I can't use vmanip to generate an area?
01:37 paramat indeed i doubt it
01:38 * benrob0329 sighs
01:39 paramat seems there is no way to force-generate an area and be guaranteed it is done before another piece of code
01:39 paramat however you could code in a wait of a few seconds, see if it's generated, if not, wait a little longer
01:40 paramat after doing emerge area
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01:41 benrob0329 how would I see if it's generated?
01:41 paramat you'll know it's ungenerated if you get a node with LVM and it's 'ignore'
01:41 paramat i seem to remember pilzadam's nether mod does or did this
01:42 benrob0329 paramat: so I have to set up a LVM just to probe a node? isn't that overkill?
01:43 paramat use minetest.after to do the wait, and cycle it until the desired area is generated
01:43 paramat a small overkill
01:43 paramat since you're getting 1 node it's fast
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01:47 paramat use a 'non mapgen object lvm', just the 6 lines here https://github.com/paramat/cata​comb/blob/master/init.lua#L187
01:48 paramat with pos1, pos2 defining a small volume or even just 1 node
01:53 paramat also see https://github.com/PilzAdam/ne​ther/blob/master/init.lua#L270
01:54 paramat it uses LVM to forceload a node, then uses 'node or nil' to see if that node is 'ignore', if so, uses 'emerge area' then waits 3s for generation
01:55 paramat where 'target' is the position of a node
02:29 compunerd joined #minetest-hub
02:33 benrob0329 Oh, i give up for tonight
03:05 compunerd is there anything special I need to do to get my craft recipe to work? I simply copy and pasted a similar recipe. made sure the output string was correct and altered the recipe to fit what I wanted it to be
03:06 paramat host your code somewhere so we can look at it
03:06 compunerd ok, hang on... lemme go to pastebin
03:10 compunerd https://pastebin.com/wnpH4AUF
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03:30 paramat joined #minetest-hub
03:45 paramat looking
03:47 paramat what's the name of your mod that has this sword?
03:48 compunerd It's actually added to the default mod
03:49 paramat you have a custom version of default mod?
03:49 compunerd And I've tried the recipe with default:silver_ingot instead of moreores:mithril_ingot to keep everything refering to the default mod
03:50 compunerd Yes... Trying to write a new game altogether but haven't done any modding in a couple of years
03:50 paramat ah
03:53 compunerd The register_tool function is called in tools.lua and the register_craft is called in the crafting.lua file
03:53 paramat hm
03:54 paramat for this to work your 'default' mod must 'depend' on moreores, did you do this?
03:55 paramat and check if moreores depends on default
03:55 compunerd No, but like I said, I tried replacing mithril with default:silver_ingot
03:56 compunerd Still didn't work
03:56 paramat yeah that's what's weird
03:56 paramat however my point stands
03:56 compunerd The engine is minetest server 0.4 backport
03:57 compunerd Yes... it does stand and I'll fix that now
03:58 paramat but still, i can't see any bug, odd
04:02 paramat so you place the ingredients vertically in the grid and nothing happens?
04:02 compunerd Changing the depends file in default to include moreores made every node become undefined... That was extremely weird
04:02 compunerd And yes
04:04 compunerd I think I'll restructure the code to be a separate mod altogether and try again before troubling you guys with it... That way I can set the depends without breaking the world... lol
04:05 benrob0329 paramat: is minetest.after also an async function?
04:10 paramat yeah i was going to suggest making it a separate mod that depends on the other 2
04:10 paramat no after is accurate to the wait specified
04:11 paramat erm if that's what you mean
04:11 benrob0329 paramat: so I should be able to use it as a sleep function, correct?
04:11 paramat yeah
04:12 paramat well, i guess
04:12 benrob0329 Ok, then something else is piling on requests, or its an async function
04:13 paramat actually, no
04:13 benrob0329 If its an async function, can I request a minetest.sleep(sec) be added?
04:14 benrob0329 Because otherwise this logic is going to be stupid
04:14 paramat i mean, a line with 'minetest.after' won't delay the line that comes after it
04:15 paramat it just says 'run this function after x seconds', starts a timer for that, then goes straight on to the following line of code
04:15 benrob0329 *sigh* lua doesnt even have a continue statement
04:16 benrob0329 Or goto
04:16 paramat any code you want delayed goes into the function that 'after' specifies
04:16 benrob0329 What if I want to delay the continuation of a loop?
04:17 paramat that might hang the whole server for the delay you want
04:17 benrob0329 I cant, I have to duplicate the code I want to run as many times as I want to run it, and nest minetest.after
04:18 paramat ok, see https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game​/blob/master/mods/binoculars/init.lua#L39 if it's relevant
04:18 benrob0329 I dont even want a delay, I want to set one block
04:19 benrob0329 But I can't set the block in an ungenerated mapchunk, so I have to generate the mapchunk. But I cant wait for the mapchunk to generate to see if I can set the block because the emerge function is async and we don't have a wait function.
04:20 paramat hehe
04:20 paramat 'block'? you mean node?
04:20 benrob0329 Yees
04:20 benrob0329 That might work
04:21 paramat btw, when a mapchunk generates, any node that isn't air or ignore will not be replaced
04:21 benrob0329 Its less complex than what the nether mod was doing
04:22 paramat you can assume the mapchunk will generate within x seconds, but this is not guaranteed
04:23 paramat actually, mapgen doesn't replace air either, only ignore is replaced
04:24 paramat you can place a node before mapgen and it should remain, as long as it's 'ground content = false'
04:24 benrob0329 Ohh....ok hold on
04:25 benrob0329 You might have just solved everything for me
04:27 paramat worth a try
04:30 paramat use LVM to load in the node, then 'set node' at that pos
04:31 paramat hopefully works whether the area is generated or not
04:44 benrob0329 paramat: so now the node stays there after generation, but the meta doesnt set properly
04:46 benrob0329 it'll set properly if the chunk is generated, but it seems to wipe if not
05:06 paramat hm
05:06 paramat i'm sure you'll succeed somehow
05:08 benrob0329 paramat: do I need to use voxelmanip to load, or can I just set it?
05:19 paramat i think you need to load in the node before 'set node'
05:21 paramat i assume the server loads in the mapblock(s) that contain the requested volume
06:43 sofar red-001: #6072 needs attention, sadly (no longer compiles, or never did)
06:44 sofar code move, I bet
06:45 sofar bummer, was gonna test it
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09:20 Lukc left #minetest-hub
10:02 CWz The bun said to the hotdog; we have to ketchup with with mustard or the client wont relish the opportunity
10:19 sniper338 joined #minetest-hub
10:34 Lukc joined #minetest-hub
10:54 Megaf joined #minetest-hub
10:54 Megaf Greetings
10:54 shivajiva salutations
10:56 Megaf For some weird reason current 0.4 branch uses a lot of memory everytime a player joins the server
10:56 nerzhul Megaf, mods is the only resposne
10:56 Megaf 2017-11-26 05:55:13: ERROR[Main]: ServerError: AsyncErr: ServerThread::run Lua: OOM error from mod '*builtin*' in callback on_joinplayer(): not enough memory
10:56 Megaf 2017-11-26 05:55:13: ERROR[Main]: Current Lua memory usage: 945 MB
10:57 Megaf could be some updated mod yes
10:57 Megaf I was forced to update the mods too, since server wouldnt start with old mods
10:57 shivajiva just need to find which one
10:58 Megaf shivajiva, I dont want to even start in finding which mod it is...
11:01 shivajiva just have to wait till someone reports the same bug in a mod you use then :P
11:05 Megaf nerzhul, so, with only default + areas mod active. After fresh start, 22 MB used by the server
11:05 Megaf player joins. spikes to 222 MB
11:05 Megaf and then it goes to 44 MB
11:06 Megaf nerzhul, not a mod issue ^
11:06 nerzhul it's normal on the first player... you just load mapblocks
11:06 Megaf How come I never noticed this in 5 years?
11:06 nerzhul because you never verify ? also verify your mods
11:07 Megaf How come I used to run this on a Raspberry Pi with 256 MB of RAM not having this issue
11:07 nerzhul OOM error in lua is not due to map
11:07 nerzhul just fix your mods
11:07 Megaf what part of no mods you didnt understand?
11:07 nerzhul i jsut don't understand why you ask for helping you to understand your problem and never lookup the path we show to you :)
11:08 Megaf its on player join the memory spikes
11:08 nerzhul are you serious ? what do you don't understand... player join = memory usage, player data and mapblock around him are loaded, it's... NORMAL
11:08 shivajiva Megaf: does it do it without areas mod?
11:09 Megaf good question, areas mod was updated too
11:11 Megaf shivajiva, Its not connecting from here, can you try to connect please? mt.megaf.info
11:12 shivajiva timeout :/
11:12 shivajiva port 30008?
11:13 Megaf shivajiva, still spike to 244 MB of RAM without areas mod
11:13 Megaf shivajiva, 30000 and 30001, but its off now
11:14 Megaf 30000 and 30003*
11:14 shivajiva ah last port I had for you was 30008
11:14 Megaf [11:08:41] <nerzhul> are you serious ? what do you don't understand... player join = memory usage, player data and mapblock around him are loaded, it's... NORMAL
11:14 Megaf That would be the case only on the first player join
11:15 Megaf also, if the block is loaded memory should still be taken while the block is loaded
11:15 Megaf it doesnt make sense 200MB getting freed immediately after login is completed.
11:15 Megaf Or does it?
11:19 shivajiva never broke it down to look at individual player load other than at the auth stage, does it happen with every player or just the first?
11:21 Megaf shivajiva, lets see, can you please join? mt.megaf.info 30000 and 30003
11:21 Megaf spiked to 331 MB when you joined
11:21 Megaf I will join now
11:23 Megaf shivajiva, spiked to 180 MB when I joined
11:23 Megaf so memory spikes when any player joins
11:24 Krock joined #minetest-hub
11:29 Megaf confirmed, 3 player joins, two in the same mapblock. Memory spike when each of them joined
11:29 Megaf nerzhul, ^
11:29 Megaf no mods loaded
11:29 Megaf just default clean MTG
11:31 Megaf du -ms players/
11:31 Megaf 84      players/
11:31 Megaf could that be an issue?
11:31 Megaf 86 megabytes in the players folder
11:31 Megaf 84*
11:33 shivajiva don't see how, it's only concerned with the records of the players connected
11:36 shivajiva might be worth swapping to minimal to see if it's caused by mtg
11:38 Megaf will do. after breakfast
11:38 shivajiva okay :)
11:42 Megaf ok, back
11:42 Megaf I dont have minimal game xP
11:44 Fixer joined #minetest-hub
11:44 Megaf shivajiva, on minimal now. Join please?
11:45 Megaf shivajiva, no, wait
11:45 Megaf the --gameid is ignored when gameid is set in world.mt
11:47 shivajiva thought the command line options forced the correct world
11:47 * Megaf will not say anything
11:47 * Megaf holds itself
11:47 Megaf shivajiva, anyway, just test. memory spike happens in minimal too
11:47 Megaf nerzhul, ^
11:48 shivajiva excellent, at least you stopped chasing your tail
11:48 Megaf shivajiva, I new from the beginning it wasnt mods fault...
11:48 Megaf I've been doing this long enough to know it's a core bug...
11:49 shivajiva I know but you have to show it's not to have the issue considered
11:49 Megaf Time to open a github issue then?
11:49 shivajiva yes I think so
11:50 shivajiva if it can be reproduced it can be traced
11:52 Megaf Im not sure it can be reproduced on clean new servers
11:52 Megaf a lot of these bugs only manifest on large servers
11:54 shivajiva I can provide large player and auth files if you think that's where it needs to be fleshed out to show the issue
11:55 shivajiva but the devs will surely have such resources to hand for debugging, no doubt
11:56 Megaf joined #minetest-hub
11:58 Megaf no need shivajiva. I will come back later with more info
11:58 Megaf thanks for you attention and time.
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13:09 Shara Pretty sure player joins are still my servers' biggest issue as well.
13:10 Shara I have noticed problems seem to start as soon as they are close enough to the player cap for connections to be refused (and in the past I have reduced the cap and still had the same result, even on player numbers that previously caused no issues)
13:11 Shara But that's the point where the number of attempted joins goes up, because people are trying over and over.
13:12 Shara So it seems to be the joins, rather than a high level of players behind it.
13:12 Shara Might do some more tests when I have a bit more spare time.
13:21 Megaf joined #minetest-hub
13:22 Megaf Greetings
13:27 Shara Hello the Tiger.
13:28 Megaf Finally finished installing Windows 10 Pro N Creators Edition in VirtualBox...
13:29 Megaf shivajiva, before me opening an issue on GitHub I still want to be sure the memory peak is not related to a build flag I used
13:30 Megaf we no is not cause by mods or subgame. But still can be a compiling thing, maybe
13:30 Shara Megaf: I've always believe player joins to be a problem.
13:30 Shara believed*
13:31 Shara But haven't tested enough to give evidence sadly.
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13:35 Megaf I have to retest 0.4.14 too to be sure is something new
13:38 Megaf I wish the nvidia driver let me choose the amount of RAM I want to use for the GPU
13:40 Calinou graphics cards have their own VRAM, so there's no point
13:41 Calinou IGPs are another thing, and they don't let you choose the amount of system RAM to use for a reason
13:41 Calinou because most people would shoot themselves in the foot if they did :)
13:41 Megaf its integrated yes
13:41 Megaf but! In my workstation if a Radeon 4200 I can chose in the BIOS the amount of RAM I want for the IGP
13:42 Megaf in my 2014 Satellite with Radeon R2 it allocates memory dynamically
13:42 Megaf In this nvidia IGP it just takes a big chunk of memory for nothing
14:00 Megaf Whos HybridDog on IRC?
14:09 nerzhul joined #minetest-hub
14:28 Aerozoic joined #minetest-hub
14:50 Krock Megaf, w_laenger
15:02 IhrFussel joined #minetest-hub
15:03 Krock hi IhrFussel
15:03 IhrFussel Megaf, I cannot confirm that bug in 0.4.16 ... memory usage is constantly at 885 MB right now
15:04 Megaf Memory use at 800+ MB is a bug in itself
15:04 IhrFussel Nope, mapblocks are kept in RAM for 20 minutes
15:05 IhrFussel I will restart in a bit though, can check RAM right after booting up
15:11 Megaf Thanks IhrFussel
15:14 IhrFussel Megaf, You could try to change server_unload_unused_data_timeout a few times and see if that affects the RAM
15:14 Megaf Indeed I could. Hold on
15:15 IhrFussel Or if it at least affects the time before the memory spike is over
15:15 Megaf !up mt.megaf.info
15:15 ShadowBot Megaf: mt.megaf.info port 30000 errored: [Errno 111] Connection refused
15:15 Megaf !up mt.megaf.info 30003
15:15 ShadowBot Megaf: mt.megaf.info port 30003 errored: [Errno 111] Connection refused
15:15 sfan5 try minetestbot instead
15:16 sfan5 shadowbot is doing something wrong
15:16 ShadowBot sfan5: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command).
15:16 Megaf I am actually having connectivity issues to my VPS...
15:16 sfan5 can't even have shadowbot be the first word in a sentence without it spouting errors at me, who thought this shit was a good idea
15:16 IhrFussel !up ihrfussels-server.tk
15:16 ShadowBot IhrFussel: ihrfussels-server.tk port 30000 errored: [Errno 111] Connection refused
15:17 IhrFussel Oops forgot port
15:17 Megaf problem is, minetestbot isnt here
15:17 IhrFussel !up ihrfussels-server.tk 25000
15:17 ShadowBot IhrFussel: ihrfussels-server.tk port 25000 is up (29477us)
15:17 Megaf Weird, I cant ssh my VPS but the websites running in its contatiners are still working
15:18 Megaf apache container is up, git server container is up and sql container is up too
15:18 Megaf and now ssh decided to work again, lol
15:20 Krock !up ente.kak.si 34617
15:20 ShadowBot Krock: Resolving ente.kak.si failed: [Errno -5] No address associated with hostname
15:21 Krock MTB can do that just fine..
15:23 Megaf IhrFussel, even with the mapblocks still in memory, that is confirmed by 150 MB of RAM used versus 40 MB, RAM still pikes soon after join and then comes back to normal
15:24 Megaf spiked to around 333 MB this time
15:24 Megaf !up mt.megaf.info
15:24 ShadowBot Megaf: mt.megaf.info port 30000 is up (9527us)
15:24 IhrFussel Try a timeout of 5 or 10 and check if the spike is over after 5-10 secs
15:25 Megaf IhrFussel, the default was 10 seconds
15:26 Megaf then I put 1800 seconds, 30 min
15:26 Megaf very same behavior
15:26 Megaf I'm clearing objects now
15:26 IhrFussel What's your block send distance?
15:27 IhrFussel Set it to something low and try again
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15:41 lisac nerzhul, any idea how to set z level of a formspec element?
15:41 lisac I want my text to be infront of an image
16:02 Krock the draw order can not be altered AFAIK
16:08 benrob0329 Who owns MTB?
16:09 sfan5 I do
16:10 benrob0329 sfan5: mind adding it here? Everyone seems to want it rather than ShadowBot
16:10 benrob0329 Shara: what's your opinion?
16:12 Shara sfan5: Is there any reason not to add it?
16:12 sfan5 not really
16:12 Shara benrob0329: then I'd say it's fine and maybe useful, but up to sfan5 either way :)
16:12 sfan5 ShadowBot will just need to be reconfigured to ignore conflicting commands or use a different command prefix
16:13 Shara They both seem to be in #minetest anyway, so I assumed there weren't conflicts
16:13 benrob0329 ShadowNinja: ^^
16:14 sfan5 i don't think ShadowBot will respond to !up in #minetest, that must be manual configuration
16:14 benrob0329 We could kick shadowbot for now
16:14 Shara Well, it's not really responding to it that well here either
16:14 Shara I'd rather not kick it, since I think it's also set up to kick on spam
16:15 Shara At least I think that's why c55 said he gave it op
16:15 sfan5 yeah it has that functionality indeed
16:16 benrob0329 Can MTB be set up to kick on spam?
16:22 sfan5 that's not the point
16:26 MinetestBot joined #minetest-hub
16:27 sfan5 ^ Shara voice it please
16:27 sfan5 (setting perm voice on the hostmask should work)
16:27 Shara Will fix +V in a moment
16:30 sfan5 !up ente.kak.si 34617
16:30 ShadowBot sfan5: ente.kak.si port 34617 errored: [Errno 111] Connection refused
16:30 MinetestBot ente.kak.si:34617 seems to be down
17:02 Roger9 apparently minecraft has a quantum computing mod
17:02 benrob0329 ...why?
17:02 * Roger9 shrugs
17:02 benrob0329 Also, how?
17:03 * Roger9 shrugs again
17:03 Roger9 it's probably just a simulation, not on actual quantum hardware
17:03 benrob0329 I dont know which is more insane
17:04 Roger9 I'm trying to find an online quantum logic simulator, but can't seem to find a good one
17:10 Jordach gah
17:10 Jordach paramat isn't here
17:10 Roger9 parameter
17:10 Roger9 paramater... argumant
17:10 Roger9 paramat and arguman
17:15 Krock paramat and arguman - together united! Coming soon.
17:16 Roger9 Lol.
17:17 Roger9 I want to create a mod, but I don't have any ideas.
17:17 Roger9 No way I'm creating a quantum computing mod, despite how awesome it might be.
17:19 Krock why not? you could create yet another technic alternative
17:19 Roger9 yes, one that's infinitely more confusing than technic
17:19 Krock that'd be nice, yeah.
17:19 Roger9 lol
17:20 Roger9 I have some idea of how quantum computing works, but I'm trying to find a good quantum logic simulator that I can't remember the name of. it was online and stuff.
17:20 Roger9 nvm, found it
17:20 Roger9 http://algassert.com/quirk
17:21 Krock you could try to make a mod that allows gravity changing in a specific area or over a specific node
17:21 Roger9 um.
17:24 Krock or a tower defense modpack with automatic guns + upgrades
17:24 Roger9 meh
17:25 Krock or a mod that gives all players a few infinite items plus PvP disabled for a few minutes to give them time to build castles and team bases. once the time is up, they shall kill the enemies
17:25 Krock see? there are already plenty of ideas
17:26 Krock of course, a mod that would do some machine learning would be somewhat amazing ;)
17:26 Roger9 ooh
17:26 Roger9 a mod which allows you to create neural networks
17:27 Krock or simply one that uses a neural network
17:27 Krock otherwise you could end up with a neural-network-ception
17:29 benrob0329 Roger9: a rocket ship mod?
17:29 Roger9 maybe a mob AI mod which gives each mob a neural network...?
17:30 benrob0329 FPS: 0.5
17:30 Roger9 lol
17:33 Roger9 or what about a mod that actually lets you create programs...
17:34 Roger9 I mean
17:34 Roger9 how about a brainfuck interpreter?
17:37 Calinou FiM++ or bust
17:38 Roger9 I pick bust
18:04 Roger9 a mod that makes uninsulated mesecons electrocute yo
18:04 Roger9 u
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18:04 rubenwardy left #minetest-hub
18:05 Roger9 'Ello.
18:05 Roger9 ...Bye.
18:12 rubenwardy joined #minetest-hub
18:12 rubenwardy hi all
18:12 rubenwardy !help
18:12 MinetestBot https://github.com/sfan5/minetestb​ot-modules/blob/master/COMMANDS.md
18:12 ShadowBot rubenwardy: help [<plugin>] [<command>]
18:12 rubenwardy yay
18:12 ShadowBot was kicked by rubenwardy: ShadowBot
18:12 Roger9 hm
18:12 Roger9 I should make it interface with digilines
18:13 sfan5 rubenwardy: you should just tell SN that he needs to config the bot to act in a non-conflicting way (like in #minetest)
18:13 Roger9 digiline_send("channel", {code = "insert bf code here", input = "insert input stream here"})
18:13 rubenwardy yeah
18:13 rubenwardy once that's done that bot can come back in
18:14 rubenwardy if MTB could support github (#issue) then it could take over in #-dev too
18:19 sfan5 poor ShadowBot, always getting replaced
18:22 rubenwardy it just never works
18:30 Krock joined #minetest-hub
18:36 Megaf [15:26:54] <IhrFussel> What's your block send distance?
18:36 Megaf 1
18:37 Megaf my server is highly efficient and optimized IhrFussel. Again, back in version < 0.4.14 I could run it on a Raspberry Pi with 256 MB of ram
18:37 Jordach !git sfan5
18:37 Jordach :^)
18:37 MinetestBot sfan5, someone thinks you need to brush up on or learn Git, please go to: http://git-scm.com/book/
18:38 Megaf Oh, hi MinetestBot
18:40 oOChainLynxOo joined #minetest-hub
18:41 Roger9 :D
18:41 Roger9 yay
18:42 Jordach hailstorms confirmed
18:42 Jordach https://jordach.net/images/mxlihayzjnrfruhlsz.png
18:43 Jordach thunder and snowing in the plains area is based on months of the year
18:43 Jordach they are month dependant ;)
18:44 Roger9 Concept: A ray gun node that shoots a ray when triggered by mesecons or digilines. If one block receives more than one ray at once, that block gets removed (and dropped as an item entity).
18:47 compunerd joined #minetest-hub
18:52 IhrFussel Megaf, 30 secs after restart 230 MB RAM with 3 connected players
18:54 EvergreenTree joined #minetest-hub
18:56 IhrFussel Megaf, did you check if the high memory usage stays high the higher you set the unload data timeout?
19:10 Jordach joined #minetest-hub
19:15 Megaf IhrFussel, its just a spike that lasts around 5 seconds
19:15 Megaf memory use is not high at all
19:16 Megaf memory climbs 200~300MB for around 5 seconds and then it goes down to normal
19:16 Krock benrob0329, http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=TARDIS+curve
19:20 IhrFussel Megaf, I don't think I see that then... which flags did you use when compiling?
19:21 Megaf IhrFussel, http://git.megaf.info/MegafServer
19:22 Jordach https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/6688 *yes*
19:22 Jordach *yesssss*
19:22 Jordach https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/6686
19:26 IhrFussel Megaf, that's a lot of flags...I didn't use any flags for make, just cmake ... you could check which thread of MT requires more memory for 5 secs
19:27 IhrFussel Wait...threads share the RAM so that's nonsense
19:28 IhrFussel You could maybe compile it once without any make flags to see if it still happens
19:51 CalebDavis joined #minetest-hub
20:05 benrob0329 Krock: wot
20:09 Krock it's the tardis plot
20:12 ThomasMonroe joined #minetest-hub
20:25 Jordach joined #minetest-hub
20:38 Megaf joined #minetest-hub
20:51 oOChainLynxOo joined #minetest-hub
20:52 Jordach so i hacked in bloom
20:52 Jordach https://jordach.net/images/hreierpvkghmlupq.png
20:52 Jordach https://jordach.net/images/tahiorxrdwtwncbvwq.png
20:52 Jordach https://jordach.net/images/mdpcwvxthyxfzukrsn.png
20:53 sfan5 minetest is an AAA game now
20:53 benrob0329 *shields eyes* its too bright!
20:53 Jordach *needs tweaking*
20:55 benrob0329 Jordach: hack in AO next for meshnodes :^)
20:56 Calinou [SweetFX intensifies]
20:56 Calinou also, nice animated favicon
21:00 Jordach fun fact
21:00 Jordach MT has no depth buffer
21:03 Calinou any game has one, it's just accessible, I guess
21:03 Jordach nono
21:03 Calinou without a depth buffer, you couldn't sort things at all, it'd look all broken
21:03 Jordach minetest does *not* have one
21:03 Calinou it does
21:03 Calinou but Irrlicht uses a traditional forward renderere
21:03 Jordach any depth buffer editors like DoF does *not* work and kills opengl
21:03 Calinou so you can't access it directly like in a deferred renderer, I guess
21:03 Jordach this also occurs under D3D
21:03 sfan5 sorting is pretty broken so that sounds plausible
21:03 Calinou see what I said about renderers
21:03 Calinou sfan5: if there was no depth buffer, even opaque blocks would appear in front of each other!
21:04 Calinou transparent objects are a whole different issue, not related to the depth buffer.
21:04 sfan5 oh
21:04 Calinou the solution is order-independent transparency, which is computationally expensive
21:13 Fixer Arch help needed: pacman search package
21:14 Fixer found it
21:16 paramat joined #minetest-hub
21:28 Fixer everything is blue
21:41 Fixer current mood: Mo-Do - 1 2 Polizei / updating list at https://github.com/minetest-​tools/mcresconvert/issues/24
22:25 Fixer checking out old minetests - xxxx xxxx it lags/stutter as hell
22:39 Fixer paramat: that RTT bug is from 0.4.9-0.4.10 era, i've listed few suspects (noob guesses)
22:42 Fixer !tell tenplus1 is it possible to render that info intelligently (no tags if not directly visible), example https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php​?f=10&amp;t=10539&amp;start=900#p301594
22:42 MinetestBot Fixer: I'll pass that on when tenplus1 is around
22:50 paramat ok
22:53 paramat Fixer yes there is an occasional unexplained failing of leafdecay, hopefully rare
22:55 Fixer and everyone forgot about rebalancing those bronze tools .-.
22:56 * benrob0329 continues work on the tardis remat
23:03 * Shara thinks all tools need balancing
23:04 Shara Mainly because  you can simply skip... how many tiers of tools?
23:04 Shara Most of them?
23:05 Fixer our tools are booooring
23:06 Jordach Fixer, tools in my subgame level up and get better the more you use them
23:06 Jordach :^)
23:06 Fixer wooden/stone/iron/bronze/diamond/mese x pickaxe/shovel/axe/hoe - quite insane list
23:06 Jordach the damage bar is inverted
23:06 Fixer i'm more inclined to make bronze as powerful as diamond, but only iron durability
23:06 Fixer and make mese tools with special abilities
23:07 Fixer remember - mese is special
23:07 Fixer so tools are special
23:07 Fixer pickaxe/shovel will pickup original blocks and axe will chop entire trunk?
23:07 Jordach Fixer, my diamond tools have the odd chance to not consume durability
23:08 Jordach they have the same amount of usage as mese, except that mese eventually reaches max level and never wears out
23:08 Fixer lol
23:09 Jordach can either level the slow mese tools to max speed, or just use diamonds which eventually break
23:09 paramat Shara you'd be the person for tool balancing, if you want to, maybe we can discuss in an issue
23:11 Fixer more and more I look into Tools list, it gets ridiculous
23:11 Fixer SIX tiers of tools
23:11 Fixer with confusion added about bronze and mese
23:11 Fixer what is better: mese or diamond? why mese is not special?
23:12 Fixer https://i.imgur.com/qhO79IA.png
23:16 Shara paramat: my worry is that we'd need to make sure you can't simply skip so many tools, or at least that there is motivation not to skip them even if possible
23:17 Shara But can think about it a bit
23:17 Shara Won't open an issue unless I come up with an ideas that seems to work for MTG
23:18 Shara idea*
23:18 paramat ok
23:18 paramat bronze was a mistake we're only supporting to not break stuff
23:18 Shara A mistake?
23:21 Fixer Shara: there is already issue opened long ago for bronze, i've renamed it, move here https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1681
23:22 Fixer find a mission for BRONZE/MESE tools or REMOVE
23:25 paramat well, many feel it was a mistake, unnecessary
23:26 paramat doesn't really fit into the progression
23:27 paramat or rather, there wasn't a hole in the progression that needed filling
23:28 Shara Fixer: issues seems more about bronze and tools in general
23:28 Shara issue*
23:28 Fixer Shara: main part https://github.com/minetest/minetest_g​ame/issues/1681#issuecomment-347047311
23:30 Shara Fixer: I doubt many people would agree with you on removing mese tools
23:30 Fixer Shara: they are pretty much equal for diamond tool, then add special ability to mese
23:30 Shara Special abilities like what?
23:31 Fixer *cough* "pickaxe/shovel will pickup original blocks and axe will chop wood in bigger chunks"
23:32 Fixer sorry I've realised we had shitshow with tools since very beginning only 6 years later :D
23:32 Fixer but it is evident
23:35 Fixer extracted 0.4.17, will sit on it
23:36 Shara I don't really like those as special abilities myself
23:36 Shara Feels like a great way to mess up some very nice mods
23:36 Fixer thats admin problem
23:36 Shara We'll just agree to disagree on that one
23:36 Fixer then just remove mese tools
23:37 Fixer and rebalance bronze
23:37 Fixer another way is to remove both, have fun :D
23:37 Shara paramat: I suspect if I try and do anything with tools you'll be slapping a controversial label on it within 24 hours :P
23:38 Fixer MTG should not be restricted by mods in any way, it should be free to evolve even if it conflicts with some mod initially
23:38 Fixer nothing controversial
23:38 Shara Fixer: not really the point
23:39 Fixer PROBLEM: Six tears of tools with doublicates and confusion, how we simplify that? ;)
23:39 Shara Saw many games with many more tiers
23:40 Shara Problem in MTG is progression doesn't flow
23:40 Shara wood/stone are just used to get metal, then discarded
23:40 Fixer ok, lets add tin tools too and some progression %)
23:40 Shara then you can jump straight to diamond
23:40 Fixer make it worse
23:40 Fixer right
23:40 Fixer so you get iron tools now
23:40 Shara So two tiers are basically useless placeholders used only for a moment
23:41 Fixer and you mine for diamond and if you find mese - it is good too and you craft whatever is abundant
23:41 Fixer bronze is omitted and mese = diamond
23:41 Shara I don't care about bronze at all.
23:41 paramat Shara depends on the idea, and we can discuss, but indeed there may not be much room for alteration
23:41 Shara But I think removing mese tools would be stupid
23:42 Fixer in game mese = diamond pretty much (roughly)
23:42 Fixer bronze is cumbersome to make, much longer crafting time and more resources -> nobody uses it
23:43 Fixer you just craft iron and find (mese|diamond) = profit
23:43 paramat not trivial to remove tools, breaks a lot of stuff
23:43 Fixer make them hidden or alias
23:43 Shara It's not like their inclusion damages anything
23:44 Fixer it does, it confuses players
23:44 Fixer iron vs bronze and diamond vs mese
23:44 Shara Never seen any sign of that
23:44 Fixer like no signs of bronze tools ;)
23:44 Shara Lack of doesn't mean they do damage. They are just pointless.
23:45 Shara But if you want to remove them, make a PR.
23:45 paramat no confusion, just a lot of choice, some of it unnecessary
23:45 Fixer so I'm simple player, what is better: mese or diamond tools? how do i know, they function in a same way pretty much
23:46 Shara SImple players don't seem to much care
23:46 Shara Or seem to enjoy puzzling it out
23:46 paramat mods depend on tools, no point breaking stuff. we just won't add new tools
23:47 * Shara sighs and opens default/tools.lua to stare at
23:48 Fixer then make them special make good progression, whatever
23:48 Fixer bronze should not suck
23:48 Fixer and mese should not be equal to diamond tools
23:48 Fixer don't throw out gameplay into trash bin
23:49 Fixer just rising awereness
23:49 * Shara sighs
23:49 Shara I already agreed with you
23:49 Shara Just not on how you'd fix it
23:50 Shara If you think your way is the only way to fix it, make a PR?
23:50 paramat Fixer do open an issue with intelligent ideas, vague complaints are not much helpflu
23:50 paramat *helpful
23:50 Fixer paramat: it was opened like year ago, I just added more remarks in it today
23:50 Shara At least now MTG does concept approvals, you can spell out an idea in full to see if it would get support
23:51 Fixer paramat: https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1681
23:51 Shara I am even watching concept approvals myself to see if there are any I can make PRs for
23:51 paramat ah ok
23:51 Shara (did one PR for a concept approval issue last nighit)
23:57 benrob0329 Shara: you can get a wood pickaxe, mine steel, then get iron in a half hour
23:57 benrob0329 *get diamond
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