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IRC log for #minetest-hub, 2017-11-25

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 Fixer it should be more or less flawless
00:01 bigfoot547 Well, I guess it's time
00:01 bigfoot547 to take the leap of faith and upgrade >_>
00:01 bigfoot547 tomorrow
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00:24 Fixer Shara: so you checked that inventory bug on your server and have not repro it?
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01:54 * benrob0329 sees a problem with converting the tardis mod to mod storage
01:55 benrob0329 I should probably redo stuff to use functions to store data
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06:34 benrob0329 I think I've done it, needs more testing before a push though
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07:21 sofar luacheck it
07:21 sofar take e.g. crops' .luacheckrc and run that
07:21 sofar great way to detect errors early
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11:12 IhrFussel The seed of the world is not as important as param2 ... if you need to lookup the seed open the map_meta.txt it isn't THAT hard
11:12 IhrFussel Regarding PR*
11:13 IhrFussel I don't see any usecases for the seed in F5 it makes absolutely zero sense other than being able to "steal" a world
11:14 IhrFussel Without param2 in F5 I probably would've NEVER found out that the screwdriver uses it for ROTATION of nodes before I looked into a certain code
11:15 IhrFussel And I'm pretty sure there are plenty of other useful cases for displaying param2 ... I will also comment on that PR now
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12:39 Shara IhrFussel: I just don't get why, if you are interested in what the code for something does, you don't just look at the code.
12:43 IhrFussel Shara, param2 helps greatly with development on my server...when I use param2 for one node I can check the values ingame in realtime without having to log them for example
12:43 Shara I've never once needed it.. since I look at the code
12:43 Shara There's other things that would have been hugely helpful to me there, but then I just write messages to track them
12:44 IhrFussel I want to make sure that the nodes have the correct value at the correct stage... and you best check that in practice
12:44 Shara So to me it just feels like laziness really.
12:44 Shara Can param 2 info not be displayed in a message?
12:44 Shara That is how I've had to track and test all kinds of things
12:44 Shara Note that I am not even against it being included. I just don't get th emassive need
12:45 Shara the massive*
12:45 IhrFussel So you agree that param2 makes modding easier when utilizing param2
12:45 IhrFussel param2 in F5*
12:45 Shara How is that relevant? I haven't argued if it's useful, just that so many other things.
12:45 Shara other things are*
12:47 Shara B the way, fair warning: I fully intend to note mapseed and copy my buildings from your map at some point (doesn't mean I won't play there again when I have time, just that I like a copy but didn't get round to it yet)
12:47 IhrFussel How is the seed more useful than param2 in debug? I never had the need to check the seed by pressing F5 ... I actually only had to check my map seed once in the entire server lifetime (1.5 years) and that was when I switched from v6 to v7
12:47 Shara So if you think that's theft, you might want to ban me first :)
12:47 Shara Read what I wrote on github please
12:48 IhrFussel Copying parts of the map locally isn't the problem... what I meant by "stealing" is using the exact same seed for your public server instead of another random one
12:48 Shara I wouldn't be involved with MT today if seed wasn't available. I don't want to go into the reasons, but that's the truth.
12:49 Shara Oh, so you want it removed in case someone abuses it, and tough luck to anyone who ever needed that to prevent them losing their work?
12:49 Krock Shara, "North" makes it more logical what the degree mark is supposed to mean. The addition of [X+] is helpful to run WorldEdit commands or to see directly in which coordinate direction someone is
12:50 Shara Pretty much everything is helpful to someone.
12:50 IhrFussel I didn't say I want the seed to be removed...I said if we have to choose bwteen seed and param2 then I'll glaly take param2
12:50 Shara That's kind of the problem I think.
12:50 IhrFussel gladly*
12:50 Shara No IhrFussel, you said the only case for seed you say is people stealing. :)
12:50 Shara you saw*
12:50 Krock line #3 can still be used for the seed.. but how many times do you use that display?
12:50 Shara ANyway, I've said I'd be happy if seed can be moved somewhere else
12:51 Shara I simply don't want it inaccessible to players.
12:51 IhrFussel From what I experienced yes...I never heard of another usecase *personally* I cannot speak for everyone for obvious reasons
12:51 Krock -> CSM
12:51 Shara Krock: Just no
12:51 Krock why
12:51 Shara Why in the world should I use CSM for that?
12:52 Shara May as well tell people to get param2 that way
12:52 IhrFussel Can't the seed be moved to another debug stage maybe? That would solve the problem too
12:52 Krock the seed is valid for the entire world and so kinda a meta information like the used mapgen, which isn't shown in theF5 information either
12:53 Shara Krock: what about version info? Why does that need to go on f5?
12:53 IhrFussel Ok forget my idea...now it requires the debug priv to view stage 2 and 3 I think
12:53 Shara Also, would f6 be a good answer? There is info there a player can view
12:54 Krock that could be stripped away if needed. it's just to provide people a way to check their version without a window title (anrdoid?)
12:54 Shara The version info takes up quite a big bit of space
12:54 IhrFussel Most Android clones don't even have the debug menu
12:55 IhrFussel And 0.5.0 will *not* eliminate them...just delay them
12:55 Krock the pause menu could show the entire hash, so it can be removed from the F5 info
12:56 Shara Hmm.. I suspect the space for it on pause menu isn't wide enough
12:56 Shara (Pause menu is possibly still broken on Windows too)
12:56 IhrFussel There's plenty of space on my 1024x768 monitor
12:56 Shara (I don't know because compiling windows = too much work)
12:57 sfan5 pause menu is broken?
12:57 IhrFussel I'd say 8 chars could fit after the "-dev"
12:57 Shara IhrFussel: Pause menu doesn't exactly get bigger with screensize
12:57 Shara sfan5: do a new windows build and I will tell you
12:57 sfan5 how new is "new"?
12:57 Krock current master HEAD, I guess.
12:57 Shara Since after the PR from shivajiva was merged
12:58 Shara That one may either fix the issue I found, or half fix it
12:58 Shara And I don't knwo which without testing
12:58 Shara know*
12:58 Shara It's not a major breakage either way, but it's annoying
12:59 Shara Basically, the PR a while back (don't have number right now) for scroll bars in formspecs broke some things
13:03 Shara Does anyone really test on Windows? Curious because I found another bug that is quite likely Windows specific a couple of nights back.
13:03 IhrFussel I can only confirm that on my screen with FULL width I still have ~ 8 chars space between the MT version and buttons in the center
13:04 IhrFussel And the monitor is 1024x768 so very very low resolution
13:04 Shara Check paramat's screenshot in the thread. You can need quite a bit more than 8 more characters there
13:04 Shara Again, pause menu size doesn't increase with screen size
13:05 Shara I guess because that formspec is created differently than the others
13:05 Shara Seemed to be via C++ not lua when I looked at it before
13:05 IhrFussel My current MT version hash in F5 is 7 chars after -dev- ... we could also make the entire formspec a bit wider
13:06 IhrFussel On my screen there's at least 20% free space on either side
13:06 Shara sfan5: http://gingercat.tk/4amits/2​0171105spot_the_problem.png
13:07 sfan5 oh that
13:07 sfan5 yes that was fixed by shivajiva recently
13:07 Shara Are you sure?
13:07 Shara His PR fixed scrolling when the bar did not show
13:07 Shara Linux did not show that bar
13:07 Shara Only Windows did
13:08 Shara The bar itself shouldn't show up because all the text fits to begin with
13:09 Shara Previously the left hand text on the pause menu could also be scrolled.. but it would jump to the bottom and then you couldn't scroll up again.
13:09 Shara Which is the part I am sure it fixed
13:10 sfan5 hm
13:10 Shara There's also a weird issue on the mod tab in current dev where half a line of text from the top row of a mod description will be missing. Not sure if that's related to this or not.
13:11 Shara Sorry, by current dev I should mean not stable, but not quite current :P
13:11 Shara None of thes eissues are in current stable
13:13 Shara (the Mod tab issue doesn't happen with all mods, but 3d armor is an example of one it always seems to happen to)
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13:51 Fixer IhrFussel: 1024*768? Old school CRT?
13:58 IhrFussel Fixer, TFT from 2001
13:58 Fixer oh, probably shitty one
13:58 Fixer i would rather buy crt from that era
14:00 IhrFussel I got it for cheap from ebay...refurbished for $20
14:02 Shara I think I'd go mad with such a small screen. Go tused to larger things.
14:02 Shara Got*
14:03 Shara I currently have two 1920*1080 screens, and a third one that's a bit less (though can probably be raised to the same if needed... but I don't use the third one much)
14:04 Shara MT across three screens is amusing for  abit, but totally needless :)
14:09 Wayward_One hi all :)
14:09 Shara Hi Wayward_One
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15:18 IhrFussel My phone screen is 800x480 and it's enough for me
15:18 Shara Phone is a bit different from a computer :P
15:27 benrob0329 sofar: luacheck?
15:28 Megaf IhrFussel, that's my netbooks resolution. I was happy with that resolution in a 7" screen.
15:31 * Jordach looks at phone
15:31 Jordach 2960x1440
15:33 Jordach Megaf, Shara uhhh
15:33 Shara Hi Jordach :)
15:33 Megaf Hi Jordach
15:34 IhrFussel My monitor is just 15" by the way so 1024x768 looks pretty good
15:35 Jordach Shara, it's also a 6 inch display
15:35 Megaf For me 1280x1024 is a very nice resolution
15:35 jas_ 320x200 best res
15:36 Megaf and 12" is a nice screen size for laptops
15:36 Megaf 12" ThinkPads for the win
15:36 Jordach :thonk:pads
15:36 * Shara won't comment on size.. or weight... of laptops she uses
15:37 Megaf Shara, That means it's a fat laptop, isn't it?
15:37 Shara Fat?
15:38 jas_ i got a little black one and a big white one
15:38 Megaf heavy
15:38 Shara Well, it weighs above average, and I also usually carry two laptops, not one, when travelling, but I don't really notice the weight much
15:41 Megaf Hah, I carry quite a lot daily
15:41 Megaf bike lock + chain, laptop, tablet, phone and mouse, that's usually in my backpack
15:42 Megaf oh, and bike tools + spare tubes
16:01 Megaf "If you build a bare server, you don't need to have Irrlicht installed. In that case use -DIRRLICHT_SOURCE_DIR=/the/irrlicht/source"
16:01 Megaf yet cmake says "-- Could NOT find Irrlicht (missing: IRRLICHT_LIBRARY)"
16:01 Megaf Is that ok?
16:12 jas_ did the binary compile?
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16:28 Megaf jas_, yep, so far so good
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16:57 Fixer jas_: i have pda with 320x240
16:57 Fixer or x200
16:57 Fixer i forgot
16:58 FourFire Okay, I am too confused about the mod storage, can someone help me?
16:58 FourFire I want to store my variable, Energy_stored, between map saves.
16:58 FourFire This variable is used in multiple ABMs.
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17:02 Megaf Greetings CalebDavis
17:03 Shara FourFire: Sorry, I still haven't looked into mod storage properly
17:03 Shara I've been using player attributes for the few things I need to save, since they are player specific
17:04 FourFire Hmm yeah maybe I can hack that. How do they work?
17:05 FourFire I need to store least one variable for each ore type plus my energy one.
17:05 CalebDavis hi Megaf
17:05 Shara Hmm, can you give me a bit more insight into what you're aiming for?
17:05 Shara Hi CalebDavis
17:06 CalebDavis hi Shara
17:06 FourFire During playtime, my variable Energy_Stored is used by ABMs I want to store it when I log out, and load it when I log back in
17:07 Shara But what's that variable an atribute of? A player? A node? Something else?
17:07 FourFire Some of the ABMs add to the value, some subtract form it
17:07 Shara If it's something general, I'd guess mod storage is what you need
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17:08 FourFire It's supposed to be related to a group of nodes, but I can hack the player storage in the meantime, because it's relating to player actions.
17:08 Shara You'd need it for every player then, with no guarantee the values would match up
17:09 FourFire Just single player atm.
17:09 FourFire can you tell me how it works, so i can at least test it?
17:09 Shara But for player attributes, you'd do something like: player:set_attribute("attribute", "value")
17:09 FourFire okay and "value" would be my int?
17:10 Shara yes, but the value always has to be a string here, so you need to convert it
17:10 FourFire I put this at the top of my init.lua, where I declare my vairable, right?
17:10 FourFire Oh how do i do that
17:10 sfan5 instead of assigning to a variable you call set_attribute
17:10 sfan5 instead of reading it you call get_attribute
17:14 FourFire sfan5, and what does the actual code look like if I want to first save Energy_stored , then load it?
17:15 sfan5 well you need to get a reference to a player from somewhere
17:15 sfan5 then you can do player:set_attribute("energy_stored", 1234) or player:get_attribute("energy_stored") - 123
17:15 Shara sfan5: it needs to be a string
17:16 sfan5 i thought mt converts this to a string
17:16 Shara Don't think it did when I was playing round before
17:16 CBugDCoder sfan5 is it possible to access the player attributes if the player isnt online?
17:16 Shara I could be wrong though
17:16 sfan5 player:set_attribute("energy_stored", tostring(1234))  or  tonumber(player:get_attribute("energy_stored")) - 123  then
17:16 sfan5 CBugDCoder: no
17:17 CBugDCoder ok
17:17 CBugDCoder it might be possible if you manually read the player file
17:17 FourFire I don't understand how that number, gets automatically saved?
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17:18 Shara Gets saved in player file
17:18 Shara file/data*
17:18 Shara That's why it wouldn't be a good way for you to do what you want outside singleplayer
17:18 FourFire If i type "1234" into the code now, why does it update to whatever the ingame values of Energy_Stored are later?
17:19 Shara Difficult to say without more of an idea what you're doing
17:20 FourFire It's a variable that is used in Active Block Modifiers
17:20 FourFire it gets added to and subtracted from during gameplay due to player actions
17:20 FourFire Just imagine it's like money
17:21 Shara So are you doing set_attribute each time the ingame value changes?
17:21 FourFire I want to save the "score" of the "money" at the end of the game
17:21 FourFire and load it at the next game
17:21 Krock FourFire, if you use the mod storage, you can set&save your value by calling the setter function. To get that saved value again, you have to call the getter function
17:21 FourFire Krock, yes but I am confused how this works
17:21 Krock none of your local variables will get updated automatically. you'll have to call the getter function every time
17:21 Shara However you do it, you need to make sure you are reading from and updating the same value each time, or it won't be accurate
17:22 FourFire I played with the code you and rub gave me yesterday and couldn't get it to work
17:22 sfan5 FourFire: 1234 is an example value
17:22 sfan5 there is no automatic updating if you do something else
17:23 Shara If you really want to try with player attributes, everytime the value in game changes, you must set_attribute... then everytime you read /use the value, you must get_attribute
17:23 sfan5 like i said, you need to call set_attribute() everytime to write the value and get_attribute() everytime to read the value
17:23 sfan5 another problem here is that player attributes are not suited for what you want at all
17:23 FourFire sure
17:23 FourFire I think the mod_storage works in the same way though
17:24 sfan5 it does
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17:24 Shara Player attributes are good if each player might have a unique value for something
17:24 Krock it's just bound to the mod, not the players
17:24 sfan5 but you are not storing something player specific so what are you using player attrs?
17:24 benrob0329 sofar: found it, thanks
17:24 Krock Shara, ..and it's irrelevant when the player is offline. i.e. not suitable for money
17:24 FourFire everything I learn about declaring, loading and saving the player attributes is directly applicable to the mod_storage
17:25 Shara Krock: I know, but FourFire just wanted to try it
17:25 FourFire ^
17:25 CBugDCoder ok i am makeing a game hub mod and i need to save 2 values per player and a list of available games should i use the player attributes for the per player values or use a custom file for the games?
17:25 Shara I've used player attributes a lot, but haven't needed mod storage yet
17:25 FourFire Okay so there's storage:set_string(Energy_stored, tostring(0)) to declare the attribute?
17:26 sfan5 to set it to zero
17:26 sfan5 there's no need to "declare" them beforehand, but having a default value is a good idea
17:26 FourFire storage:get_string(Energy_stored) to load it
17:26 FourFire What is used to save it?
17:26 Krock get_string will default to "" (empty string) if not found
17:26 sfan5 tonumber(storage:get_string("Energy_stored"))
17:27 sfan5 FourFire: saving is identical to what you called "declaring" but with the number vlaue you want to save
17:28 FourFire Ah so local Energy_stored = 0
17:28 FourFire storage:set_string(Energy, tostring(Energy_stored))
17:28 FourFire Energy_stored = tonumber(storage:get_string(Energy))
17:28 FourFire is what i want to do?
17:29 Shara Try it? :)
17:29 sfan5 you're missing the " " around Energy
17:30 FourFire do I want the saving to the storage to occur inside any of my ABMs, or will these things declared at the start of my init.lua run upon game save?
17:31 sfan5 you need to call set_string
17:31 sfan5 everytime the value changes
17:31 benrob0329 I encased all mod storage stuff in functions to return sane values if nil
17:32 FourFire so
17:32 FourFire set_string("Energy") = Energy_stored
17:32 FourFire inside my AB, after the stuff has been done?
17:32 FourFire ABM*
17:32 sfan5 storage:set_string("Energy", tostring(Energy_stored))
17:33 FourFire which will save the numeric value stored inside the integer "Energy_stored", correct?
17:33 sfan5 correct
17:35 FourFire So
17:35 FourFire Energy_stored = tonumber(storage:get_string("Energy"))
17:35 * benrob0329 sent a long message: benrob0329_2017-11-25_17:35:49.txt <https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/down​load/matrix.org/dqhUVKsSkmfzuagpMoaTpghz>
17:35 sfan5 yes
17:35 FourFire will load the stored value into that integter again?
17:35 sfan5 yes
17:36 FourFire Great, I'll test it
17:37 FourFire 2017-11-25 18:36:29: ERROR[Main]: ...ications\minetest-0.4.16-win​64\bin\..\mods\nano\init.lua:6: attempt to index global 'storage' (a nil value)
17:38 benrob0329 local storage = minetest.get_mod_storage()
17:38 benrob0329 At the top of init.lua
17:39 FourFire Well it loads so that works but ...ications\minetest-0.4.16-win6​4\bin\..\mods\nano\init.lua:109: attempt to perform arithmetic on upvalue 'Energy_stored' (a nil value)
17:40 FourFire 109 is the line where I put storage:set_string("Energy", tostring(Energy_stored))
17:40 benrob0329 FourFire: you didnt define Energy_stored
17:40 benrob0329 Define it at the top
17:40 FourFire I do
17:40 FourFire minetest.chat_send_all("Using FourFire's Nano mod")
17:40 FourFire local storage = minetest.get_mod_storage()
17:40 FourFire local Energy_stored = 0
17:41 benrob0329 local Energy_stored = 0
17:41 FourFire I've successfully gotten the Energy_stored value to work, gotten it to print to chat as it updates, now I'm trying to save it between games
17:42 * benrob0329 recommends doing things using functions that directly write to mod storage
17:42 FourFire How does that work?
17:42 benrob0329 That way things save
17:43 FourFire does it tank performance if there's multiple changes per second for many nodes?
17:43 benrob0329 Like, nano.get_energy()
17:43 benrob0329 nano.set_energy()
17:43 benrob0329 You'd have to ask a dev
17:44 FourFire do I need to convert from string to numbers every time?
17:44 benrob0329 Your function can return a sane value if it fails
17:44 FourFire that's fine I'll just test performance myself
17:44 IhrFussel Shara,  it's the other way round: You can store a non-string value in set_attribute but MT will always convert it to a string so set_attribute("blah",1) will convert the 1 to a string
17:45 benrob0329 Like, return 0 if tonumber sets the internal variable to nil
17:45 benrob0329 IhrFussel: you mean I dont have to manually convert?
17:45 benrob0329 That makes life easier
17:47 Shara Hmm, pretty sure I had to drop "" around it for it to work before, but like I said, could be wrong
17:47 IhrFussel benrob0329, you have to convert strings to number when you get the attributes an want to perform maths on them
17:47 benrob0329 FourFire: a very handy practice is to use if (value) as a nil check
17:47 benrob0329 IhrFussel: right
17:48 FourFire Aaah, thanks
17:48 IhrFussel But other than that no... I use nowhere tostring(var) in my mods
17:48 Shara From dev wiki:
17:48 Shara set_attribute(attribute, value) — set an extra player attribute to value. The value must be a string
17:49 IhrFussel Someone wasn't informed then...it will just save the value as string
17:49 benrob0329 because anything other than nil or false returns true, if (function()) then <foo> else <error code/default value> done
17:49 benrob0329 Is how I do error checking
17:50 Shara * `set_attribute(attribute, value)`:    * Sets an extra attribute with value on player.    * `value` must be a string.
17:50 Shara from lua api
17:50 Shara so that would be wrong too if you are right
17:51 IhrFussel https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5864
17:52 FourFire benrob0329, when I use nano.setenergy() and nano.getenergy() is that value stored permanently in the same way the player:set_attribute is?
17:52 Shara FUssel: only it's closed and based on what I pasted wasn't fixed
17:52 Shara But oh well
17:52 benrob0329 FourFire: yes
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17:53 benrob0329 If your functions set the value directly
17:53 FourFire okay so i can just nitialize my own permanent storages whenever?
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17:54 IhrFussel So player attributes you set can either be a string or a number (I think Lua sees all numbers as floats) ... no table,function or userdata
17:55 benrob0329 FourFire: you can set them whenever, you probably want to only have one mod storage object though
17:55 IhrFussel It should be in the documentation which value types are supported "just string" is definitely wrong
17:55 FourFire certainly
17:57 IhrFussel rubenwardy even commented on the documentation PR https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/pull/5884#issuecomment-305889994
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18:01 Shara Yup, that's why I am surprised that the issue was closed without that actually being fixed.
18:02 Shara Maybe I will make a PR later if you don't feel like
18:05 Krock ObjectRef::l_set_attribute:  std::string value = luaL_checkstring(L, 3);
18:06 Krock string would be expected but it also converts numbers to string
18:07 IhrFussel It's incorrect that the setting value *must* be a string
18:08 Shara IhrFussel: happy for me to make PR to update it later, or do you want to do it?
18:08 IhrFussel And it makes modders life just more difficult to state it like that
18:08 rubenwardy lol
18:08 Shara lua api documentation is a mess
18:08 rubenwardy didn't even notice he didn't correct it
18:08 Shara Hi rubenwardy
18:08 rubenwardy I probably should have made it a line issue
18:08 Krock rubenwardy, neither did nerzhul
18:09 rubenwardy hi Shara
18:09 Shara and I like fixing these silly messes :)
18:09 nerzhul Krock, sorry, do i miss something ?
18:09 Shara hehe
18:09 IhrFussel Shara, I never opened a PR and don't have the time to learn that currently, so go for it :P
18:09 Krock nerzhul, nah. just a comment months ago: https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/pull/5884#issuecomment-305889994
18:10 Shara Okay. Will do it after the current non-MT mess I'm fixing :)
18:10 IhrFussel Is there any other type besides numbers Lua can directly convert into strings?
18:16 IhrFussel Seems to be only numbers (tried function, table, boolean)
18:16 nerzhul Krock, oh okay :)
18:17 IhrFussel Need to restart PC BRB
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18:30 benrob0329 Do node timers stay after restart?
18:31 benrob0329 Like if there was a node timer in progress, would it continue after a server restart?
18:32 sfan5 that's the entire point
18:32 benrob0329 Ok, thanks
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18:40 paramat seed is essential in F5 because people take screenshots with F5, it then shows how to reproduce what you see in the screenshot
18:41 paramat param2 was added quite recently and we went years without it. it can be shown using a mod
18:42 Shara paramat: why do we need to keep it so it fits on something less than the default screensize?
18:44 Shara I really much prefer Krock's suggested style of formatting it either way. It's so much easier to read
18:45 Shara Get rid of the version info, and move seed to the end of the top line maybe, then you'd probably fit it all even on the smaller width
18:45 paramat version info is also essential to be visible in screenshots to reproduce what is seen. i can re-add -x +x etc, there's just enough room
18:45 Shara I don't think it is at all really
18:46 Shara The version info is the client anyway, not the server, so doesn't help outside singleplayer
18:47 Shara And if it's singleplayer, that screenshot is being saved with that version anyway?
18:47 Megaf joined #minetest-hub
18:48 Shara I've needed to pull seed from screenshots a few times, but never once needed version info
18:49 Megaf Well, I finally figured out why the Windows 10 installer was never showing up/working on VirtualBox
18:49 Megaf Maybe not a why, but because.
18:50 Megaf Basically I had used a Windows 7 template in "New Virtual Machine" in VBox. Used Windows 10 now and sure enough installer loaded as expected.
18:50 Megaf I find that, odd.
18:52 paramat the reason i'm using 800x600 to test is because sometimes a player may need to use a tiny game window, for example when having other windows open, 800x600 was our previous 'small screen size'. this also reduces the chance of embarassing info running off-screen
18:53 Shara To be honest, if you use something smaller than default, you should not expect perfect results. Whereas poor results in the default size (which we have now in my opinion) are an issue
18:53 Shara (other than default in the sense of lower settings)
18:53 Shara (higher than default should always work well)
18:54 Wazubaba joined #minetest-hub
18:54 Shara I mean, I can reduce my game window to less than 400 by manual resizing... But I don't expect it to work without problems then.
18:54 paramat i could also not capitalise every word, will look clearer i think
18:54 Shara Before changing the default, the default was always the thing that was tested, so why change that now?
18:56 paramat well, maybe version isn't essential, but it's useful, i haven't read the PR thread yet
18:57 IhrFussel paramat, you forget that param2 was added for a *reasons* and I'm pretty sure that one of those was to make it easier for modders/server admins to see how the nodes in the world behave
18:59 paramat also, someone with a low power machine may need to use 800x600, i think it should be supported
18:59 FourFire benrob0329, how do I properly check if a value is nil using an if statement?
18:59 FourFire I've got:
18:59 FourFire if(nano.getenergy() = nil) then
18:59 FourFire nano.setenergy() = 0
18:59 FourFire else end
18:59 Shara That's like saying the default size should not have been changed really
18:59 FourFire and get this error: \mods\nano\init.lua:6: ')' expected near '='
19:00 paramat Ihr modders and admins can use a mod for param2, after all we don't have param1, so best use a mod for both
19:01 IhrFussel Why should we always use mods for things that are basically part of the ENGINE
19:01 paramat no, because default size isn't necessarily the smallest size supported. default is a reasonable size, not big, not small
19:02 paramat because using mods for many things is how MT works, there are many basic things that can only be done with a mod, configuration stuff etc.
19:02 Shara Then it probably does need to be made user configurable.. at which case everyone can just argue over the defaults instead :)
19:02 IhrFussel Yes and that has to stop soon...add wielding items finally for example
19:03 rubenwardy or just implement wrapping?
19:03 rubenwardy this really doesn't need configuration
19:03 IhrFussel It's not your task to make the engine as barebones as possible...who said that? That's certainly not what we server owners want
19:03 Shara rubenwardy: I was thinking about that, but you do need position to be on the far left for ease of use really
19:04 Shara since I think it's the most used value for most people
19:04 IhrFussel What we want is LESS mods and more BUILTIN functionality...
19:05 Shara We do?
19:05 Shara I was pretty sure I liked doing many things with mods.
19:05 IhrFussel For basic stuff like showing which item the player holds, yes
19:05 Shara Even if you stick that in MTG, it's still done by a mod
19:05 paramat Ihr no it doesn't have to stop, it's how MT is and it greatly simplifies things
19:06 IhrFussel I want that in c++ implemented, so that it doesn't lag the server anymore
19:06 rubenwardy lol
19:06 rubenwardy your implementation is broken if it lags the server
19:06 rubenwardy well
19:06 rubenwardy not efficient
19:06 paramat yes keeping the engine simple is a central philosophy of MT, read c55's roadmaps
19:07 FourFire rubenwardy, can you help me with my problem?
19:07 IhrFussel Well if you think a server can allow to have the wielded item on a player updated every 0.1 sec
19:07 Shara Why in the world would you need it that often?
19:07 rubenwardy FourFire, you need double =
19:07 rubenwardy ==
19:07 FourFire ah
19:07 paramat wrapping moves things around too much, people get used to the position of data, moving it when window size is changed will be disorientating
19:07 rubenwardy for an equality check
19:07 IhrFussel That was an example... 1 is default but within 1 second the player can switch items a lot
19:08 benrob0329 FourFire: just the function will return true if not nil
19:08 benrob0329 No need for == nil
19:08 rubenwardy IhrFussel, inefficient. The proper implementation would need callbacks
19:08 rubenwardy or CSM
19:08 Shara Would just look weird and unrealistic even by MT standards if it switched multiple times per second anyway
19:09 IhrFussel Well could you then probably add a minetest.register_on_wield_change() or something like that? Or would that be too complex too?
19:09 * Shara wanders out until it's back to f5 talk
19:09 FourFire rubenwardy, so should I say if(!=nano.getenergy()) then ?
19:09 paramat anyway, someone else can develop F5 later, i'm not going to bother with configuration, my PR is just a quick fix of my mess, it doesn't have to be forever
19:10 * Shara quickly wanders back
19:10 rubenwardy FourFire, not
19:10 rubenwardy FourFire,  if(not nano.getenergy())
19:10 rubenwardy also
19:10 rubenwardy getenergy should be get_energy
19:10 Shara paramat: your quick fix is pretty difficult to read though
19:10 rubenwardy Lua uses underscore_naming
19:10 rubenwardy and the brackets are unneccesary
19:10 FourFire oh damn, how do i declare energy then?
19:11 rubenwardy so:  if not nano.getenergy() then
19:11 rubenwardy oops
19:11 rubenwardy so:  if not nano.get_energy() then
19:13 paramat it's not difficult to read, it removes all the clutter as requested. work with it for a while and you soon get used to it
19:13 Shara Soyou are not willing to even add commas in?
19:14 FourFire Ok that problem is resolved. Now i get unexpected symbol near '=' for the next line
19:14 FourFire nano.set_energy() = 0
19:14 rubenwardy ah lol
19:14 rubenwardy nano.set_energy(0)
19:14 rubenwardy set energy should be a function
19:14 FourFire ah okay
19:15 paramat the PR is a very clean, simple, keeps all long running info (not the recent param2) and where it was before, so isn't and shouldn't be controversial. however it will probably cause much bikeshedding :) as i feared
19:15 Shara paramat: if you can't even add in a few commas, I'm 100% against it
19:16 paramat commas maybe, we could go a little over 800 width, could even add param2
19:16 Shara Can you look at Krock's suggested approach?
19:16 Shara It's much more readable, and with a few changes could stay within 800 with all the information, I think
19:17 paramat yes i will
19:17 Shara Thank you
19:17 paramat ok i'll add commas, i can see they help
19:17 Shara Krock has put the variable names after the values, or dropped them where possible, and it helps a lot.
19:18 Shara And since we don't have the = signs now, putting them after can make a lot more sense
19:18 Krock uh, this highlight flood
19:18 Shara Sorry :P
19:32 paramat after, hmm, doesn't seem intuitive at all, confusing, and it's not what people are used to
19:33 paramat for param2 i'll go with dev's consensus, i don't mind
19:37 * benrob0329 sent a long message: benrob0329_2017-11-25_19:37:38.txt <https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/down​load/matrix.org/YiJTkCQVXmqMaCMoQAYNIAYP>
19:40 paramat variable name after is counter-intuitive
19:40 Fixer "I'm working on a weather mod"
19:40 Fixer https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6679
19:40 Shara Not always, but mostly I'd still prefer to drop "pos" completely. Just show it. Everyone knows what it is.
19:42 * benrob0329 sent a long message: benrob0329_2017-11-25_19:42:20.txt <https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/down​load/matrix.org/wwGhboNWpigKwWxICZxBVdnK>
19:44 benrob0329 \>sent as long message
19:44 benrob0329 FourFire: see above messages
19:44 sfan5 matrix is terrible
19:45 benrob0329 I suppose a link is better then sending 5 messages and getting kicked for flood
19:45 benrob0329 Matrix is not terrible, the bridge is trying to cope with IRX
19:45 benrob0329 *irc
19:46 benrob0329 IRC doesnt have support for multiple lines per message apparently
19:48 Fixer everything sucks
19:49 Fixer irc will outlive all of this nonsenc(s)e
19:49 benrob0329 IRC will outlive the universe, and still lack the ability to send anything but basic text
19:50 benrob0329 Along with real accounts
19:51 sfan5 if IRC is so terrible why are you here?
19:51 benrob0329 I'm not, i'm using a bridge to talk to a community on IRC
19:53 benrob0329 I respect IRC, it's just that its still stuck in the 90s :-)
19:57 Fixer it is not like someone wants to talk via voice/video (sociopathic look)
19:57 Fixer irc is easy and fun
19:57 Fixer nobody profits off you, nobody wants your phone number or extorts data from you
19:58 Fixer it is also open source
19:58 benrob0329 Easy for techies, infuriating for non-techies
19:58 Fixer web gate can be used by cockrouches
19:58 benrob0329 Matrix is open source, and you can run your own server
19:59 Fixer nontechy can't use much anything anyway, i would not dumb down anything to non techie
19:59 Fixer they have their dumb new skype perverted into some crippled sick snapchat-like toxic waste
19:59 Fixer notice - no swearing
19:59 benrob0329 Having to PM a bot to register a nick or make a channel persistent is overcomplicating the process
20:00 benrob0329 But yes, Skype sucks
20:00 Fixer nontechy don't need to register anything
20:00 paramat ok good input, will update as stated =)
20:00 Fixer you just type Username and channel name on web page - ready
20:00 benrob0329 Fixer: This is offtopic, and silly
20:00 Fixer yeah
20:00 Fixer skype is silly
20:01 Fixer i want to throw up now
20:01 Fixer it is on electron now eating 10x as much more ram and more crippled then aware, progress, right, right (echoes)
20:01 Fixer than ever*
20:01 Fixer or then
20:02 benrob0329 Fixer: that was a hint to kill the conversation :-)
20:02 Fixer anyway, you can end it here
20:03 Fixer i wonder if octacian still wants to write something as AE2
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20:12 tenplus1 hi folks
20:13 benrob0329 tenplus1: rewrote a lot of backend to use mod storage (tardis mod)
20:13 benrob0329 Now uses functions instead of raw table writes
20:13 tenplus1 ooh sweet, nicely done :)  also hi
20:13 benrob0329 Needs more testing before a push though
20:14 tenplus1 many mods converting to mod storage / player attributes now :)
20:53 IhrFussel I read somewhere core devs are planning to remove player attributes in the future again...I hope they changed their mind by now, player attributes will be widely utilized in a few months
20:53 IhrFussel Also hi tenplus1
20:53 tenplus1 hi fussel
20:53 tenplus1 player attributes are very handy, save on separate text files
20:53 tenplus1 if anything I'd remove csm :P
20:55 IhrFussel Attributes helped my mods/IO a lot... the only case where I still have to use files is on_prejoinplayer() since the player object isn't ready there
20:56 tenplus1 yeah, simple skins can only use the /setskin command when the player is on server...  needs the player object to change skin now
20:58 IhrFussel I do "is banned? got a name that's on the blacklist? Is already connected? If yes does use the same IP as the one who's connected?" checks
20:58 tenplus1 :P
21:01 IhrFussel By the way my server seems to lag less now... I set server_unload_unused_data_timeout to 1200 an map_save_interval to 90
21:01 tenplus1 kewl dude...  the settings count a lot in reducing lag :D
21:02 IhrFussel Yeah well...there is a longer lag every 90 secs now, but still better than having one every 10 or so
21:02 tenplus1 eheh
21:06 Calinou hi :)
21:07 tenplus1 hi Cal
21:07 tenplus1 hows' things ?
21:07 Calinou there was a ceremony today where they gave us our degrees, I officially graduated :)
21:07 tenplus1 w00t! congrats dude :P
21:07 Calinou then I went for a nap as I was really tired :P
21:07 Shara Congrats
21:07 * tenplus1 showers Cal in donuts
21:07 Calinou thanks :)
21:10 tenplus1 http://www.funnyjunk.com/cha​nnel/animemanga/Wan/nbYuLao/
21:11 Shara IhrFussel: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/6681 :P
21:13 Krock paramat, sorry what? dtime is draw time
21:13 tenplus1 hi Krock
21:14 Krock hi tenplus1
21:14 paramat the 2 are different graphs though in the later F5 stage
21:15 paramat looking at the debug code, them being the same is not obvious. anyway the names should be visible
21:16 paramat updated the PR
21:16 tenplus1 o/ paramat.... is this linked to the f5 info text as well ?
21:16 IhrFussel Shara, I just asked in #lua an they confirmed "number" is the only Lua type that can be converted to a string directly...wouldn't it be better to state it as "string or number"?
21:17 Krock ^
21:17 Shara Since Krock seems to want that, sure :P
21:17 paramat tenplus yes
21:18 paramat we're not removing player attributes AFAIK
21:19 IhrFussel I read someone mention it...I think it was about "having a unified storage method"
21:20 paramat might have been suggested but not decided
21:20 Fixer benrob0329: don't forget to write down somewhere required version of minetest
21:21 Shara Krock: updated
21:22 Fixer tenplus1: so how is that chest investigation going?
21:22 tenplus1 seems the dev version am using an sign onto server and steal items from any chest
21:22 tenplus1 but 0.4.16 stable (tested by otehr ppl) cannot
21:22 tenplus1 dunno if something was added in dev's that changed csm
21:22 tenplus1 will test 0.5.0 tomorrow when i can be asse
21:22 tenplus1 *assed
21:23 Fixer tenplus1: what is your minetest_game version?
21:23 Fixer tenplus1: is it up to date?
21:23 tenplus1 ye
21:23 Shara I've tested 0.4.16 stable and 0.5 and can't get it to work.. even on the same chests which Ten is able to take things from, so I don't understand what's going on
21:23 Fixer tenplus1: git master one?
21:24 tenplus1 the 0.4.16 dev I have installed just now is H=July 17th
21:24 tenplus1 going through versions I have available
21:25 benrob0329 Fixer: 0.4.16 I believe
21:25 Fixer paramat: don't forget that minetest-0.5.0-fbalbabalkfafdsadas will be much shorter in released version, and if you move 3rd line Pointed to 2nd end it will probably fit almost to 800px
21:26 Shara Fixer: paramat is also testing with longest node names.. which won't often be that long
21:27 IhrFussel paramat, https://github.com/minetest/minetest​/issues/6193#issuecomment-319038365
21:27 Fixer Shara: if you are unlucky - you get 1366px - it is more then enough, not sure about mobile
21:29 tenplus1 nite folks :P
21:29 Shara Night ten :)
21:29 tenplus1 left #minetest-hub
21:31 Fixer i've noticed that 0.4.16 works faster on my tablet
21:31 Fixer slightly
21:32 Jordach >tablet
21:32 Jordach like that's going to be of any consequence
21:32 Fixer Jordach: i know, i know, it is POST_TABLET_WORLD and POST_POST_PC_WORLD
21:32 Jordach then again, my Note 8 Exynos won't likely have any issues surrounding running MT directly
21:32 Fixer waiting for death of smartphones and PostPostPostPC era
21:33 Fixer whatever new hype brings
21:33 Fixer at least it worked
21:34 Fixer and fdroid finally updated it to 0.4.16, thanks for that
21:34 Fixer also, fdroid client has changed UI and I kinda (lotsofswearing) had to REMOVE it, and revert to older version, unusable :(
21:34 Fixer worst ui ever
21:45 Fixer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uSm9CRnyQo little offtopic as usual
21:47 paramat Fixer yes but the longer version string is present for developers and those using dev versions, so i have to account for that
21:48 Fixer developers probably have at least 1366*768 screen
21:48 Jordach paramat, intergrated snowdrift within Solar Plain's atmos mod
21:49 Fixer waiting for particles PR
21:49 Fixer Jordach: how much particles?
21:49 Jordach 64 for rain
21:49 Jordach 16 (snow)
21:50 paramat nice
21:50 paramat i found you can quadruple the default number of drops/flakes with little problem
21:50 Fixer paramat: your snowdrift has problems, obvious one is - when walking - rain moves behind you pretty much
21:50 Jordach ^ saw the issue
21:50 paramat yeah
21:51 Jordach expanding the rain area + a handful more particles
21:51 Fixer paramat: not really quadruple, fps goes down rapidly, and thats on my dead HD6870
21:51 paramat it's a balance of area, spawn height and number of particles
21:51 benrob0329 Rain could be a HUD effect tbh
21:51 Jordach LOLNO
21:52 benrob0329 thats how other games get away with it
21:52 Fixer you sure?
21:52 benrob0329 Iirc
21:52 benrob0329 Lemme double check
21:52 Fixer I have a game from year 2001, and 16 years ago when I played it had 300 particles in my scene on GF2MX card that is older than two octacians
21:53 Fixer it looked nice back then, minetest is waiting for that particles PR i tested
21:53 Fixer it seems promising, but add_particle seems somewhat slower :/
21:53 benrob0329 Found this https://armedunity.com/topic/6418-h​ow-to-create-a-hud-raindrop-effect/
21:53 Fixer paramat: your snowdrift uses add_particle, right?
21:54 benrob0329 But meh, dont have time for proper research
21:55 Fixer iirc if game in 2001 had particles that looked properly 3d, minetest could do this (probably )
21:55 paramat Fixer yes
21:55 paramat and no particle spawners
21:55 rubenwardy IhrFussel, player attributes aren't going to be removed
21:56 Fixer paramat: so you can use particle spawner but they will look the same? but will work VERY fast with that new PR
21:56 rubenwardy however, they are going to be deprecated and replaced with player meta
21:56 paramat will try if that PR is merged
21:56 IhrFussel rubenwardy, doesn't deprecate mean "will be removed in the future" though?
21:57 Fixer paramat: that was just a question, wonder why add_particle is slow in his PR :(
21:57 rubenwardy we've never removed a deprecated thing, IhrFussel
21:58 Fixer hah https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&amp;​t=18862&amp;sid=fe8e01057a7da7b862cc354dc2c5260f
21:59 paramat Fixer erm, my mod may have to change it's method if it uses particle spawners, so not sure if i can get the same effect, but will try
21:59 Fixer maybe he will make add_particle faster and that will be fine as it is
22:00 paramat hope so
22:01 Jordach paramat, does mg_biome_np_heat apply to mgv5 mgv6 (carpathian???!)
22:01 Jordach getting some inconsistencies
22:07 paramat yes, the biome API applies identically to all mapgens excpet mgv6
22:07 paramat but the noise seeds for heat and humidity vary per-world of course
22:08 Jordach explains why snowdrift doesn't get heat correctly
22:08 paramat it does
22:08 paramat it takes into account world seed variation
22:09 paramat 'seed' in noise params is actually 'seed difference' that is added to world seed
22:09 paramat except ..
22:10 paramat if you use custom noise params for heat/humidity then you need to alter snowdrift noise params to match
22:10 paramat it should perhaps get those automatically
22:10 Jordach and i currently don't
22:11 Jordach interestingly enough
22:22 paramat what inconsistencies?
22:23 paramat oh, snowdrift doesn't use the 'blend noises' which are fine detail
22:23 paramat (biome blend detail)
22:23 Jordach it does for me
22:23 Jordach but then again
22:23 Jordach i take the direct level of humidity
22:24 Jordach https://jordach.net/images/evwhsbcltdqsiiibd.png
22:24 Jordach HOLD MY BEER
22:24 Jordach eventually i'll upgrade atmos to have a wind system in place
22:25 sfan5 Jordach: you seem to have FSAA disabled
22:25 Jordach >lazy
22:25 Fixer feeling chinese
22:25 sfan5 echo "fsaa = 4" >>minetest.conf
22:29 Jordach feeling like adding some graphical oomf
22:30 Jordach like leaves every now and then dropping 1-2 particle leaves
22:30 paramat i plan to redesign those snowflakes to be 5x5 and more variety
22:30 Jordach (by now and then, i mean every 30-70 seconds)
22:30 Jordach if not longer to not abuse particles
22:31 Jordach they must also have an air node below them directly
22:32 sofar https://i.imgur.com/QiTpH3c.jpg - carpathian + luscious looks really good btw
22:32 Jordach sofar, i like it
22:32 Jordach just a shame it slightly interferes with my games colour choices
22:32 Jordach tempting tho
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22:33 sofar you can color it the way you want
22:33 sofar just modify it with a different palette
22:33 sofar but yes, essentially it will by default
22:33 Jordach might expand it to the plant based nodes too
22:33 sofar you should
22:34 Jordach fun fact
22:34 sofar I find papyrus standint out way too much
22:34 Jordach the only nodes in solar plains for biome specific plants is the snow
22:34 sofar same for lilies
22:34 Jordach sofar, heard the sounds i used for snow
22:34 Jordach it has a proper proper crunch
22:34 Jordach i also double the snow particles
22:34 Jordach and added 32 to the rain
22:34 sofar I'm fairly happy with the ones I found for ITB
22:35 Jordach sofar, want to test em out on the server i run in devel mode?
22:35 sofar sure
22:36 Jordach doesn't have the rain patch just yet
22:36 Jordach yes
22:36 Jordach dev server runs head and is generally compatible with your buiilds, sfan5
22:37 Jordach it also loads almost immediately
22:37 Jordach note 8 time
22:38 Jordach *forgets there's no android build officially*
22:39 rubenwardy there is an official Android build, not for dev though
22:40 Jordach reeeee
22:53 IhrFussel Does Lua in MT use garbage collection by the way?
22:53 sfan5 what else would it use
22:53 sofar lua auto-collects garbage, everywhere
22:53 IhrFussel No garbage collection? Like bash for example
22:54 sofar say hello to OOM
22:54 sofar bash uses the environent, which isn't the same
22:54 sofar process exits and all env is gone
22:54 sofar lua is single-process
22:54 sofar it can't do taht
22:55 IhrFussel So if I set a lua var to nil it will delete the var from RAM after a bit? Or how does it work?
22:55 sofar it erases it immediately from ram
22:56 IhrFussel So "nil" means "not found in memory"?
22:57 sofar no
22:58 IhrFussel I mean doesn't lua still have to store the var somewhere in case I want to check its content later? Like if var == nil
22:58 sofar nil just means 'has no value'
22:59 sofar lua can't distinguish between "not in memory" and "in memory", so nil can never mean 'not in memory'
22:59 Jordach nil is false, but false is not nil
22:59 sofar #captainhelpful
23:00 Jordach think of nil as not existing, instead of an existing state like true or false
23:00 IhrFussel So does lua forget the var name too as soon as I set it to nil? Or will the var name still take memory?
23:01 sofar the var is removed
23:01 sofar and if the var was pointing at a table, and nothing else refers to the table anymore, it is removed as well
23:01 sofar (that last part is what we call garbage collection)
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23:26 Jordach sofar, can't help that my game, while farming isn't dealt with, is that it looks really good
23:29 Jordach (i'll probably make
23:29 Jordach a similar engine by cleverness)
23:31 Jordach Shara, https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?p=301479#p301479
23:32 benrob0329 sofar: do you want credit for crops' luacheckrc?
23:32 compunerd Thanks Shara
23:32 compunerd quick question... I should know this but... if using minetest.register_tool, do I still need to use minetest.register_craftitem? I'm trying to figure out why my recipe isn't showing up in unified inventory
23:32 sfan5 tools are items so no
23:33 Shara No problem. Added you to autovoice as well.
23:33 Shara Jordach: Pretty
23:34 sofar benrob0329: nope
23:35 compunerd That's what I thought... is there anything special I need to do to get my craft recipe to work? I simply copy and pasted a similar recipe. made sure the output string was correct and altered the recipe to fit what I wanted it to be
23:36 Jordach sofar, question
23:36 Jordach can overlaid textures be paletted but not others
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23:37 benrob0329 sofar: thanks
23:37 sofar the code works the other way around, you color the nodes, then overlay them with non-colored ones
23:38 sofar s/nodes/tiles/
23:38 Jordach could probably do this
23:39 Jordach overlay textures aren't needed in solar plains anyways
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23:42 Megaf man, why is my system hanging when I launch two windows VMs each with 1 GB of RAM?
23:43 Megaf I have 4 GB of ram in my system and 7 GB of swap
23:43 Megaf Should build my own kernel again...
23:44 compunerd How have you allocated the processors and how much does the host have?
23:44 Megaf If I launch one Windows VM with 2 GB of RAM it will too hang the machine
23:45 Megaf hanvent tried limiting the CPU use...
23:45 compunerd If you use KVM with virtualization enabled in bios, you can use virt-manager and see where all the load is occuring at
23:45 Megaf VBox...
23:45 benrob0329 >goes to test teleporting to ungenerated chunks
23:45 benrob0329 >teleports well outside the world
23:45 Megaf Tho Im using KVM as backend
23:45 benrob0329 I suppose it worked then lol
23:46 Megaf compunerd, I cant do anything, even the capslock led takes ages to switch so slow the OS gets
23:46 Megaf not even the cursor moves
23:46 Megaf Pretty sure is a bug in the Debians scheduler
23:47 compunerd Not sure if it will work, but try installing virt-manager and see if it sees your VMs... It's a much better front end than virtualbox
23:47 compunerd if you can get the VMs to shut down and get your system back, that is
23:48 Megaf Sorry, I think I was not clear. When the system hangs, it stops totally
23:48 compunerd Plus, like I was saying... Restart into bios and see if you have virtualization enabled
23:48 Megaf I can't select anything nor switch windows
23:48 Megaf screen stops refreshing
23:48 Megaf compunerd, There's no bios and it is enabled.
23:48 Megaf Problem is when I use 2GB of RAM for VMs
23:50 compunerd No bios? What type of system is it?
23:52 Megaf compunerd, MacBook Pro :)
23:53 * Jordach slightly modifies luscious
23:53 compunerd Ah... That's the problem... Mac... lol... Nah, they've actually got great hardware... Just not my cup of tea
23:53 compunerd would it be dual or quad core?
23:54 Megaf compunerd, dual core. But again, in the past I could use all 4 GB of RAM for VMs in VBox
23:54 oOChainLynxOo joined #minetest-hub
23:54 Megaf it would swap like crazy of course, but it would still respond
23:55 compunerd I suggest migrating them to KVM completely with virt-manager... You can do a lot more with allocating the resources... Running Debian?
23:56 Megaf Debian as host yes
23:56 Megaf and it has to be VBox
23:56 Megaf virt-manager is too complicated to use
23:56 compunerd Plus it will tell you if there are any problems that would effect performance as soon as virt-manager connects to KVM
23:57 Megaf VBox is amazing. Drag and drop, 3D, brilliant networking stack
23:57 compunerd No... Not at all... I use it to run MT VMs on a headless rackmount
23:57 Megaf fantastic snapshot system, linked clone
23:57 Megaf for workstations VBox is amazing
23:57 Megaf compunerd, for servers like Minetest server VM is waste of resources. I use containers for that
23:58 Megaf I have currently 6 containers on my main server
23:58 Megaf minetest server, mysqlserver, web server, git server, and so on. Each on its own container
23:58 compunerd I was thinking of swapping to containers actually...
23:59 Megaf The host is actually CentOS 6 and my containers are Debian,
23:59 Megaf some are Debian 7, soem 8 and some 9

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