Time Nick Message 00:00 paramat rubenwardy please could you merge the 3 'offtopic' threads into one and rename it so that users are not confused? 00:00 rubenwardy I can't 00:00 paramat oh of course 00:00 paramat i'll ask c55 00:13 ThomasMonroe Happy Thanksgiving all!! 00:33 Megaf Happy thanks giving ThomasMonroe 00:33 Megaf but that was yesterday for me 00:33 ThomasMonroe hey Megaf 00:33 ThomasMonroe oh lol 00:33 Megaf Hi brother :) 00:34 Megaf [00:13:36] <ThomasMonroe> Happy Thanksgiving all!! 00:34 rubenwardy how big is thanksgiving? Compared to christmas dinners 00:34 Megaf 13 min late 00:35 ThomasMonroe hmm good question rubenwardy, I'd say just a littls bit bigger at my house 00:36 Megaf 2017-11-23 19:35:52: WARNING[Main]: Undeclared global variable "HUD_ENABLE_HUNGER" accessed at ...inMegafServer/bin/../mods/hud_hunger/hud/builtin.lua:41 00:36 Megaf weird 00:36 Megaf I have hunger = false in world.mt 00:36 Shara I want to celebrate thanksgiving just because. 00:36 Megaf why is that error happening? 00:36 rubenwardy another excuse to have a roast dinner is good 00:36 ThomasMonroe Caleb could help you, he's looked at that code alot 00:36 rubenwardy I think that's what thanks giving is 00:36 Shara Exactly :D 00:36 ThomasMonroe lol I wouldnt be surprised rubenwardy 00:37 ThomasMonroe just because Thanksgiving is an "American" holiday doesn't mean you can't set a day aside to be thankful for what God has given you 00:38 rubenwardy well, it's literally a USA holiday due to the beginnings, right? 00:38 ThomasMonroe technically 00:38 * rubenwardy is an athiest, anyway 00:38 ThomasMonroe dude, you have waay more Faith that I do 00:38 ThomasMonroe than* 00:39 Shara Can still just be thankful in general :P 00:39 ThomasMonroe touche SHara 00:39 rubenwardy true 00:41 Megaf need some help testing. mt.megaf.info 30003 00:41 Megaf checking stability and stuff 00:41 ThomasMonroe ok 00:44 Megaf 2017-11-23 19:42:44: [Server] Megaf joins game. List of players: Megaf 00:44 Megaf ]Killed 00:44 Megaf Well 00:44 Megaf it seems like minetestserver is more memory hungry than ever 00:44 ThomasMonroe hnmm thats why it timed out for me 00:44 Megaf I used to run this on 256 MB of ram back in the day 00:45 Megaf ThomasMonroe, try again please 00:46 ThomasMonroe ok 00:46 Megaf ThomasMonroe, nevermind 00:46 Megaf minetestserver is eating 1 GB of RAM in less than two minutes 00:47 Shara I couldn't connect from stable client. Error message. Are you running current dev? 00:47 ThomasMonroe oh ok i gtg afk for about 15-20 anyways 00:47 Megaf Shara, I can't keep the server on long enough for me to connect 00:47 Megaf it east all ram 00:47 Shara Weird 00:47 rubenwardy how much RAM do you have? 00:47 Shara ANy idea what's doing it? 00:47 Megaf rubenwardy, 1 GB 00:47 rubenwardy heh 00:47 Megaf Shara, yep, bad quality control 00:48 shivajiva sfan5: works now, thanks :) 00:48 rubenwardy that's quite low, I'd decrease the block load range and cache size 00:48 Megaf again, back in the day, same set of mods, but Minetest 0.4.14 I could run it in 256 MB of RAM 00:48 rubenwardy we don't optimise for 1GB of RAM 00:48 Shara The lowest RAM I ever ran a server from was 4GB 00:48 Megaf actually with more RAM than I have today 00:48 Megaf I mean 00:48 Megaf more mods 00:48 rubenwardy if reducing the block loaded limit doesn't help, then there may be a bug 00:49 Megaf there's always a bug 00:49 Megaf but let me check my config first 00:49 rubenwardy true 00:49 Shara I have 8GB RAM now, but rarely see memory usage for MT over 20% 00:49 Megaf active_object_send_range_blocks = 1 00:49 Megaf active_block_range = 1 00:49 Megaf max_simultaneous_block_sends_per_client = 4 00:49 Megaf server_unload_unused_data_timeout = 10 00:49 Megaf max_objects_per_block = 16 00:50 Megaf with those settings it shouldnt use much ram at all 00:50 rubenwardy oh interesting, there's only client_block_limit 00:50 rubenwardy * client_mapblock_limit 00:50 rubenwardy valgrind may be able to help with seeing where the memory all is 00:51 Megaf I wonder if any dev actually ever test their work 00:51 rubenwardy lol 00:51 Megaf on a real world thing, with mods and stuff 00:52 rubenwardy it would be good to have better QA 00:52 Shara How to get it better? 00:52 rubenwardy more unit tests 00:52 Megaf Mem: 1024 1016 0 0 7 0 00:52 Megaf Swap: 2048 306 1741 00:52 rubenwardy more testers 00:53 Shara If compiling without switching system wasn't hell, I'd probably test more things :) 00:53 rubenwardy :D 00:53 rubenwardy VM? 00:53 Megaf I love when VanessaE just decided to change everything on homedecor, again and again and again 00:53 Megaf every single homedecor update things break 00:53 Megaf 2017-11-23 19:53:07: [Server] Item "homedecor:ceiling_lantern" not defined at position (54,7,-11) 00:53 Megaf 2017-11-23 19:53:09: [Server] Item "homedecor:fence_wrought_iron" not defined at position (54,6,-12) 00:53 rubenwardy Minetest works in a VM quite well as long as you don't use guestadditions mouse 00:53 Shara Actually planning on trying to set something up once current looming deadlines are swatted down 00:54 rubenwardy we need to clone Fixer 00:54 Megaf 2017-11-23 19:54:02: [Server] Item "poisonivy:sproutling" not defined at position (47,6,-15) 00:54 Megaf 2017-11-23 19:54:04: [Server] Item "poisonivy:sproutling" not defined at position (54,5,-18) 00:54 Megaf same for plantlife/moretrees stuff 00:54 rubenwardy also, petition to rename Fixer to Tester 00:54 Shara I want to be able to test both Linux and Wndows side by side... because I am fairly sure I have found a couple of OS specific bugs 00:54 rubenwardy :) 00:54 Megaf VanessaE, you tehre? 00:55 rubenwardy some googling couldn't find any memory breakdown tools 00:55 rubenwardy there was a guide for XP 00:55 rubenwardy I'll keep looking, I probably just suck at googline 00:55 * Shara has found a really weird bug that seems to be windows only... 00:56 Megaf rubenwardy, somehow memory use dropped from 1+ GB to <200MB after a couple of minutes 00:56 Megaf Mem: 1024 182 808 0 32 824 00:56 Megaf Swap: 2048 50 1997 00:56 rubenwardy huh 00:56 rubenwardy that's odd 00:56 Megaf you are the dev... 00:56 rubenwardy were you online when it dropped? 00:57 Megaf yes sir 00:57 Megaf Shara, join please 00:57 Megaf ? 00:57 Megaf expect all VanessaE mods to be broken tho 00:58 * Shara tries 00:58 * Shara timed out 00:58 Megaf [pipeworks] pipeworks:refund_node_breaker_pick entry, nodename=pipeworks:nodebreaker_off 00:58 Megaf pipeworks broken too 00:59 Megaf Mem: 1024 81 927 0 15 928 00:59 Megaf Swap: 2048 154 1893 00:59 Megaf RAM use dropping more 00:59 Megaf going to swa 00:59 Megaf Shara, again 00:59 Shara On media this time 01:01 Megaf so basically server is getting ultra laggy when people join 01:01 Megaf I dont know if is worth trying to fix this server or just drop the world and start from scratch 01:02 Megaf Shara, 1060 KB auth.txt 01:06 Megaf Mem: 1024 110 878 0 34 896 01:06 Megaf Swap: 2048 188 1859 01:06 Megaf memory use under cotnrol 01:06 Megaf see? 01:06 Megaf My server runs well with 256 MB 01:06 Megaf I spent months optimizng this thing 01:08 Megaf rubenwardy, I have bones = keep 01:08 Megaf yet when I died I lost my inventory 01:08 Megaf in a box of bones 01:08 Megaf I have important admin tools 01:08 Megaf this is extremely dengerous 01:09 rubenwardy important admin tools should use the system in place for that 01:09 rubenwardy ...privileges 01:10 Shara I made my admin tools so that even if someone picks them up, on first attempted use they turn into something else 01:10 Megaf rubenwardy, not the point 01:11 Megaf why do devs are so quick in deviating the point and blaming something else? 01:11 Megaf I say, message doesnt say mod name, they say, you are doing it wrong, use --info 01:11 Megaf I say, bones = keep is not working 01:11 Megaf they say. Set privs for admin tool 01:11 Megaf common 01:12 Shara Megaf: privs for tool use is a good approach in general 01:12 Megaf I'm not saying it is or it isnt, I'm saying not the point now 01:14 Megaf now 01:14 Megaf hold on 01:14 Megaf I think it was my faiult 01:14 Megaf the bones thing :) 01:14 Megaf rubenwardy, sorry :P 01:15 Megaf Shara, bones was my fault 01:15 Shara :) 01:15 Megaf the high memory use on start up is an interesting issue tho 01:16 Megaf look, just restarted the server 01:16 Megaf Mem: 1024 1016 0 0 7 0 01:16 Megaf Swap: 2048 296 1751 01:16 Megaf Mem: 1024 1016 0 0 6 0 01:16 Megaf Swap: 2048 693 1354 01:16 Megaf keeps climbing 01:17 Megaf then suddenly 01:17 Megaf Mem: 1024 116 893 0 13 893 01:17 Megaf Swap: 2048 54 1993 01:17 Megaf I wonder if my compiling flags could cause that 01:18 Megaf well, good ngiht 01:19 Megaf and VanessaE, your mods are just brilliant. I love them and I am a big fan of your work. But you have to settle down on your mods structure. Please stop changing that. 01:21 Megaf Night folks. and well done so far in the backport-0.4. Just this spike of memory in the first start up should be investigated. I will have time for that in the weekend, 01:24 rubenwardy !tell Megaf didn't see that you set a setting 01:24 ShadowBot rubenwardy: O.K. 01:50 Sokomine hi 01:50 Shara Hi Sokomine 02:51 benrob0329 paramat: the issue is starting to get ridiculous 02:52 benrob0329 It was supposed to be a helpful discussion, not an argument on the lore of Minecraft 02:53 paramat it is =) 02:53 ThomasMonroe lool 02:53 paramat best i stop posting there =) 03:12 paramat c1ffisme irritates me and has done for years =} 05:41 FourFire Hello, I'm doingm y first mod, and my nodes spawn fine, but crash with this error when the drops are supposed to happen: 05:43 FourFire AsyncErr: ServerThread::run Lua: Runtime error from mod 'nano' in callback node _on_dig ...minetest\bin\..\builtin\game\item.lua:197: bad 05:45 FourFire Here is my code: https://hastebin.com/ovunulupaj.js 05:45 FourFire Yes I am using MC2plus 05:57 benrob0329 FourFire: having part of an error message isnt much help 05:58 benrob0329 Could you pastebin the whole error? 06:22 FourFire benrob0329, https://hastebin.com/zufagobabe.tex 06:48 benrob0329 FourFire: remove the commented out line, and compress the table onto one line 06:48 benrob0329 For the drops 06:49 FourFire " drop = {items = {"nano:nano_clump"}, }" 06:49 FourFire I'll try that 06:49 benrob0329 FourFire: Remove the extra comma 06:49 benrob0329 Just }} at the end 06:50 FourFire Okay 06:50 benrob0329 (The cleaner the code, the less likely errors will happen) 06:50 FourFire I understand, Just don't know the syntax 06:51 benrob0329 I believe end commas are optional, its either they or dont have them on the last object at all 06:56 FourFire benrob0329, where can I find an up to date list of default nodes? 06:57 benrob0329 FourFire: in the default mod, nodes.lua 07:13 FourFire benrob0329, same problem 07:13 FourFire https://hastebin.com/mivowayala.tex 07:14 FourFire Code: https://hastebin.com/iwigilulis.coffeescript 07:17 FourFire Yay if I don't dig the node, the Node events still work 07:17 FourFire Now I just need to make conditions 07:18 benrob0329 FourFire: change drops to drop and make it a string 07:19 benrob0329 drop = "mymod:diamond_fragments" 07:19 FourFire drop = "nano:nano_clump" 07:19 FourFire okay 07:19 benrob0329 Yes 07:20 benrob0329 Too that from rubenwardy's modding book 07:20 benrob0329 So it should work 07:22 FourFire It doesn't crash now, but not item drops either 07:25 benrob0329 FourFire: you'll have to ask someone else. Its like 2:30 in the morning and I dont have the MT api memorised 07:25 FourFire Thanks for your help! 07:25 benrob0329 Sorry, but hey it doesnt crash now :P 07:51 FourFire With an ABM which is conditional on a specific adjacent node, How do I detect/grab the position of that node? 09:41 RoaryTiger Good morning everyone! 09:41 RoaryTiger Just finished my Java test. I think I didnt go too bad. Waiting for the results. 09:42 rubenwardy <3 Kotlin 09:43 rubenwardy I feel like I should just script my account to reply "<3 Kotlin" everytime Java is mentioned 09:44 RoaryTiger Why tho 09:45 rubenwardy Because it's almost my favourite language (or will be when Kotlin/Native is stable) 09:46 rubenwardy Kotlin/JVM is what Java should have been 09:46 rubenwardy not that you have much choice in a test 09:46 rubenwardy or at school/college 09:50 RoaryTiger Alright 09:52 FourFire Hey can anyone help me with ABMs? 09:52 RoaryTiger rubenwardy, ^ 09:53 Megaf FourFire, You will help yourself a lot if you just ask your question 09:53 Megaf anyone reading who can help will help 09:53 FourFire My ABM is conditional on adjacent node of a certain type. I'm trying to replace the node which activates the ABM with my modblock 09:54 FourFire I've looked through your tutorial rubenwardy, and it doesn't tell me what I need 09:54 rubenwardy you'll have to search the neighbours 09:54 FourFire I have implemented your ABM, and it does work with my mod block. 09:54 rubenwardy theres a minetest.find_node_in_area for that 09:55 FourFire Neat. 09:56 Megaf Shara, rubenwardy, can you please add Lukc to the voice list? 09:56 FourFire I'll work on that, meanwhile can you tell me how ABMs can have multiple conditions to activate? 09:56 rubenwardy Hi Lukc 09:56 Lukc _o/ 09:56 Megaf Lukc is a Minetest veteran too :P 09:56 FourFire How does that look in code? 09:56 rubenwardy was about to ask that 10:28 FourFire rubenwardy, What is the correct use of that function, this is my code: https://hastebin.com/bewoniquwo.lua 10:29 rubenwardy it returns a list of position 10:29 rubenwardy so you want to loop through and set them 10:29 rubenwardy or only set the first 10:30 rubenwardy depends how you want to deal with there being more than one such neighbout 10:30 rubenwardy depends how you want to deal with there being more than one such neighbour 10:30 FourFire Yes, only the firsmt the script will run again and get the next one later if there's multiple 10:30 rubenwardy so coal_xyz[1] instead of {coal_xyz} 10:30 FourFire how do I set the first position only, pass it onto the minetest.set_node function? 10:31 FourFire Ah that makes sense 10:31 FourFire it works! 10:31 FourFire But crashes too, lol 10:45 FourFire rubenwardy, I changed my references and tried it on the MT base subgame it's much more stable and works. How do I make an ABM have multiple conditions? 10:46 FourFire I have an integer Energy_stored I want it to be > 0 before my block is allowed to copy itself 11:23 rubenwardy https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=301254#p301254 11:23 rubenwardy there's joke about this, but I feel like it's a bit inappropriate for the forums 11:35 FourFire rubenwardy, something about gay powers? 11:35 FourFire There's a joke in there somewhere 11:35 rubenwardy lol 11:36 rubenwardy I was going to comment on fitting large things (Minetest) in tight environments (RPi) 11:36 FourFire My mod seems to crash when i use "print(variable)" inside ABMs 11:36 rubenwardy oh dear 11:36 rubenwardy try print(dump(variable)) 11:36 FourFire ok 11:36 rubenwardy dump converts anything to a string, no matter the type 11:37 rubenwardy print only supports things that are immediately convertable to a string, so not tables or nil 11:37 FourFire hmm it should be an interger 11:38 FourFire Should I specify "local float var" when i declare it? 11:38 rubenwardy no, lua doesn't have types 11:38 rubenwardy well 11:38 rubenwardy explicit types 11:38 FourFire Ok 11:38 rubenwardy so just local var 11:38 FourFire what are the differences between local and global? 11:38 rubenwardy global is accessible anywhere 11:38 rubenwardy and so could be overwritten by other mods 11:39 rubenwardy and is a memory leak if you never use it again 11:39 FourFire if I declare a local inside an ABM, will it be accessible to anything within my script, or just things inside that ABM? 11:39 rubenwardy the local is only usable in the scope it's defined. So in a function, it'll only be accessible inside that function and any functions declared in that function 11:40 rubenwardy you can put a local in a file 11:40 rubenwardy in which case it's accessible by the whole file 11:40 FourFire Ok, I'll just declare everything at the start then 11:40 rubenwardy "New 5 star rating for Minetest: This game is like Minecraft" 11:40 FourFire hmm how do I store data that isn't node specific? 11:41 FourFire I understand that nodes can store metadata, but let's say I have my energy integer which is supposed to be valid for a whole group of nodes, not just one in particular 11:42 FourFire How do I store that upon world save? 11:43 Krock don't. delay it to spread the load 11:44 FourFire what? 11:45 Krock when the world is saved, i.e. all `server_map_save_interval` seconds, the disk will be busy, causing lag. best is to delay that by a second or two 11:45 Megaf So I lost my mouse somewhere, inside my backpack 11:46 FourFire Ok that's fine, but how do I actually do it, in Lua? 11:46 FourFire how do I save a value that isn't assigned to a specific node? 11:47 Krock local interval = tonumber(minetest.settings:get("server_map_save_interval")) minetest.after(interval + 2, my_function) 11:47 rubenwardy mod_storage 11:47 Krock my_function will be called without any arguments after interval + 2 seconds after the world has started 11:47 Krock yeah, there's also mod_storage which allows you to save it any time 11:48 rubenwardy local storage = minetest.get_mod_storage() -- in iniit.lua, not in a function 11:48 rubenwardy then later on storage:set_string("key", "value") 11:48 rubenwardy and storage:get_string() 11:48 rubenwardy and storage:get_string("key") 11:49 rubenwardy is related to the world 11:49 rubenwardy not to a particular player or node 11:49 rubenwardy and you don't need to worry about map_save_interval 11:49 rubenwardy oh, and mod storage is more private, so you don't need to worry about conflicts with other mod 11:49 rubenwardy +s 12:24 Megaf Guys, I just realized Irrlicht ships with libjpeg and libpng 12:24 Megaf And they are compiled when we build Irrlicht 12:25 Megaf Can I just use libpng and libjpeg from Irrlicht instead of having to install from repos? 12:25 Krock I think so but they might be somewhat outdated 12:26 Megaf I'm not sure those are the source codes for libpng and libjpeg tho 12:26 sfan5 you don't have to link to libjpeg & libpng separately if your irrlicht build includes this 12:27 sfan5 i know the CMake configuration requires it but you don't need to 12:27 Megaf Irrlicht/source/Irrlicht/jpeglib/ and Irrlicht/source/Irrlicht/libpng/ 12:27 Megaf sfan5, oh, that's interesting 12:28 Megaf And it makes sense 12:29 Megaf How to I overwrite the variable that says libpng os REQUIRED in cmake? 12:29 Megaf just varname=value cmake ? 12:29 Krock comment it out 12:32 RoaryTiger [12:29:43] <Krock> comment it out 12:32 RoaryTiger [12:30:18] <Megaf> Often when I edit code in cmake will flag the build as -dirty 12:32 sfan5 that's a feature 12:33 Megaf I wonder if editing CMakeList will cause a -dirty flag to be set 12:33 Megaf and can't we use the dirty flag as a detection for hacked CSM clients? 12:34 Krock even my regular development builds seem to be dirty.. who cares? 12:35 sfan5 Megaf: when you suggest something to counter "hacked" clients ask yourself: can the client lie to the server about this? 12:35 rubenwardy lol 12:35 rubenwardy let's not start this again 12:35 Megaf sfan5, not every "hacker" will "care" about that 12:36 sfan5 that's a different question and irrelevant 12:36 Megaf It's just something to make the thing slightly less easy... 12:36 Krock rubenwardy, too late 12:36 Megaf It was just a question tho 12:36 sfan5 if the client can lie about it it's not a security measure, the end. 12:36 Fixer not this again 12:36 Fixer sfan5: +1 12:36 * Megaf stopped already 12:37 Fixer the only way is server-side anticheat, end of story 12:37 Krock or proprietary software 12:37 Megaf that ^ 12:38 Megaf but we are not going that way 12:38 Megaf :) 12:43 Megaf yep, if you just make irrlicht it will build libpng and libjpeg 12:43 Megaf that alone could bring some performance improvements, couldnt it? 12:43 sfan5 not really 12:45 Megaf I'm trying to understand why would it bring performance improvement I can't see how. 12:45 Megaf maybe could just make the loading of textures a little faster. I don't know really 12:47 Megaf battery low, see you later 13:09 nerzhul Krock, proprietary software doesn't mean no cheat, but harder cheat :p 13:33 Fixer yeah 13:40 FourFire rubenwardy, Okay print(dump(int)) doesn't seem to work ingame 13:40 FourFire I'm intending to print to the chat 13:41 FourFire Second, more importantly, how can I add a second condition for the ABM to run? 13:43 lisac FourFire, print() prints to the terminal 13:43 lisac try minetest.chat_send_all(dump(int)) if you want it to be sent to all players ingame. 13:47 FourFire lisac, that doesn't seem to work... 13:49 FourFire Ah now it works, thanks lisac 13:53 FourFire Minetest is amazingly optimized 13:53 FourFire My whole world is literally being eaten and I'm only on 10-17% CPU usage 13:54 Krock you can't rely on the CPU usage, as we only use one core 13:55 Krock the performance could be better, most likely 13:55 FourFire On a quad core CPU, 25%= 1 core 13:56 FourFire I have the i5 5675C it has a large "128MB L4 Cache" 14:10 Krock L4? Also works quite well with 2x 6 MiB L2 cache (no L3, L4) 14:24 FourFire Krock, how do I make an if statement work with an ABM? 14:25 Krock if condition then print("works") end 14:25 FourFire Krock, this is my code https://hastebin.com/odugukerib.lua 14:26 Krock I think you didn't quite understand what register_abm does 14:26 Krock and when this code is actually called 14:27 Krock the first line will be called as soon the mod gets loaded by Minetest on start 14:27 FourFire You're right I don't 14:28 Krock the function register_abm will - obviously - register an ABM, which triggers its "action" function after a while in-game 14:28 FourFire Wait, so "action" is a variable? 14:28 Krock so it'll be called once per second for each node (I think) 14:29 FourFire I can call just the variable instead of all that code? 14:29 Krock no, action is a function that you defined like the chance field 14:29 Krock how do you call a variable that isn't a function? 14:29 FourFire yes, sorry, but I can call the function just by typing "action" ? 14:30 Krock no, you can't call that function. Minetest does that for you 14:30 Krock and if it does, the code within that function (line 10) will be executed 14:30 FourFire Okay, then is there some way to add that > 0 condition to the ABM itself? 14:30 Krock yes, just do it like you said. move it there 14:31 Krock into the "action" function 14:32 FourFire This should work right: https://hastebin.com/wamewusixu.lua ? 14:35 sfan5 kind of 14:35 Krock yeah, but define Energy_stored above the registration, so it knows that it's either a loacl or global variable 14:36 Krock and it'll be quite spammy once it reached 0 14:36 FourFire I have 14:36 FourFire That's fine I just have that for testing purposes 14:37 Krock I'm not a Lua compiler who can tell you whether this will run just fine in your world, so just try it 15:43 lisac FourFire, dump() just converts storage types into a string 15:43 lisac no need to do dump("some text") 15:43 lisac but if you have, for example, an array of strings, then you do need it 15:44 ThomasMonroe ok I just saw the Black tulip and green chrysanthemum PR for MTG 15:45 ThomasMonroe would it be a bad idea for the black tulips to be added to the "lore" for the game? 17:04 Mr_Pardison Issue with boats. 17:04 Mr_Pardison When you are on one, it doesn't let you do /spawn or /home. 17:05 Mr_Pardison I'm bringing this up as a player that gets stuck in quicksand can't escape it unless they can back out of it. 17:14 Krock asme issue with carts btw 17:15 Krock that's called attachment and it's supposed to work like that 17:15 Mr_Pardison RIP them if they can't escape. 17:15 Krock i.e. fixed position, relative to the parent object 18:21 Shara Hello all :) 18:22 Mr_Pardison Mew, traveling one. 18:22 Shara Mew, Mr P. :) 18:24 Mr_Pardison so, still haven't fixed my computer but I might buy the one that my sister has as it doesn't work anymore (at least the battery doesn't but that's a simple fix). 18:24 Mr_Pardison Still going to install Fedora on it. 18:30 Raven262 Hi Shara 18:33 Mr_Pardison well, g2g now. 18:33 Mr_Pardison cya 18:34 lisac hey https://youtu.be/2boY_CsDHIY 18:35 lisac ^ Smooth progressbars 18:35 lisac Just finished it 18:35 lisac what do you think? 18:39 Shara lisac: interesting, but what practical use would it have? 18:39 Shara (not saying there is none, but curious) 18:39 lisac um... 18:39 lisac it looks cool. 18:39 Shara Hah 18:39 lisac I could make the default furnace use it. :) 18:39 Shara Find a use! 18:39 Krock 60 formspecs per second? 18:39 lisac Krock, actually refreshes every 0.01s 18:39 Shara Ouch 18:39 Krock 100 fpps 18:40 lisac yeah 18:40 Krock * fsps 18:40 Raven262 Its smoooth 18:40 lisac it has a configurable timestep. :) 18:40 Raven262 Its ugly if it isn't smoooooth though 18:40 lisac it also has this weird issue where you can't close the formspec while that is running. :P 18:41 lisac gotta fix that, too 18:41 Shara So it's interesting, but still not a proof of useful CSM :P 18:41 Raven262 God of formspecs considers it heresy to do so. 18:42 * Shara does not want to think of there being a god of formspecs 19:14 lisac Shara, it's not nesessarily CSM 19:14 lisac It can be run server-side 19:14 lisac it would just be slow. 19:14 Raven262 Like lisac. 19:14 lisac :( 19:14 Raven262 Okay, he is a bit faster. 19:15 Raven262 Wb Krock 19:17 Krock ty 19:17 Shara lisac: I wouldn't want to touch something with that frequency of updates on server :P 19:18 lisac After visiting the top servers, I'd think server admins love the lag. :) 19:18 lisac https://pastebin.com/uPKaU8f7 19:18 lisac it's pretty proof-of-concept-y 19:20 Shara Which are even the top servers? 19:20 lisac first 10 or so http://servers.minetest.net/ 19:21 Shara They change all the time though 19:21 lisac yeah 19:21 Shara But no, we don't love lag 19:21 lisac but it's mostly just CTF, Darklands, Xanadu 19:21 lisac and Just test 19:21 lisac others come and go 19:21 Shara I still don't get how DL outranks RC so often 19:22 Shara At least at the moment DL has the higher average (usually doesn't), but it loses in everything else. 19:23 lisac 563 people playing MT right now, online. 19:24 Shara There we go.. RC lost players and leapt up the list 19:24 lisac tripe that for daily number 19:24 Shara RC seems to lose rank when it has more than 20 for some reason... 19:26 IhrFussel There are FAR too many servers for those few hundred players ... it's more or less a luck game to get players onto your server 19:26 Shara I wouldn't say it's just luck 19:26 Shara RC built up slowly over time. DL got busy because RC players wanted survival, but wanted to stay on my servers 19:27 IhrFussel Mobile players will choose the server that's top-most at the moment...if they fail to connect to it they try the 2nd best etc etc is my guess 19:27 Shara Not sure how it works with mobile users 19:27 Shara But you would still need to get up the list for that to kick in 19:29 IhrFussel My server is (arguably) more unique than 90% of the other servers and it still doesn't get many players... we treat players fair and content isn't short either ... and the server is still not nearly as popular as some others 19:30 Shara Fussel: you seem to be doing reaosnably well these days though 19:30 lisac IhrFussel, I'm going to be honest here, your server looks a bit... complicated. 19:30 lisac I can't follow the chat 19:30 lisac due to all random messages 19:31 lisac mods seem randomly scrapped together without any unique style 19:31 lisac I also have a dislike for HD textures. 19:31 lisac now I'm not saying it's bad, and it's probably better then some servers. 19:31 lisac and I'm sure a lot of players, including my younger brother, like it. 19:31 IhrFussel Even if you ignore the mintesthosting.com ones which can't be popular cause of mod/player limit, most servers are pretty dead and there are just a few "lucky" ones that get all those player waves 19:32 Raven262 Odd thing is, though, that HD textures are exactly the thing that kids like. 19:32 Raven262 For some reason. 19:32 Shara I like.. I guess something in the middle. 19:32 Shara I've yet to see any MT textures I would really call HD to be honest 19:32 IhrFussel I have no HD textures...my textures are fanatasy-styled and they are 32x32 19:32 Shara 32*32 would be what I favour 19:32 Raven262 Thats still HD 19:32 Shara I don't really like the 16*16 that MTG insists on 19:33 Shara Raven, it's really not 19:33 IhrFussel 32x32 is only twice the default...try a 512x512 pack 19:33 Raven262 4 times the defaul 19:33 Raven262 *t 19:33 lisac IhrFussel, Shara: I find higher then 16x16 resolution textures to look out of place in minetest 19:34 Raven262 And, yes i would like to see a good texture pack in minetest, but they are all too bright for me. 19:34 Shara lisac: possibly because you are seeing weird blends of different detail levels 19:34 IhrFussel Well players are free to use their own TP on servers...nobody can deny it 19:34 Raven262 I used the default textures, once. :P 19:37 IhrFussel And I agree that my server *once* was a mess...cause I wasn't really sure what I wanted it to be...part of my playerbase wanted creative, other part wanted survival...I was torn between the two... but now I decided I go full "light survival" ... the mods are just optional, additional content...more options is always better 19:37 Shara Not always 19:37 IhrFussel If the choice is per-player then yes I'd say 100% 19:39 IhrFussel One problem I have is that my server content is of course quite demanding...and a cheap Android phone with under 1 GB RAM will likely crash before the user even joins 19:39 IhrFussel And most clone apps don't have any kind of settings to reduce effects 19:41 IhrFussel I can only tell them to try a device restart...but that doesn't always help of course 19:42 Shara not much you can do about it really 19:42 IhrFussel Shara, regarding the doing well these days: It's very very random how much players I get... 19:43 lisac Hey can we load textures in CSM? 19:43 IhrFussel Sometimes I suddenly get hit by 20+ at once ... other times the server is dead for many hours 19:44 Shara lisac: why not just use a texture pack? 19:46 Krock IhrFussel, busy servers become more popular, empty ones have a hard life 19:47 Shara Look after the players you get. Build a good team. Be fair, but do follow and enforce your own rules. And mostly be patient. Very very patient. 19:48 Shara Seems to be the way to get an active server that isn't just app users who don't speak 19:51 IhrFussel Krock, my server was #1 most of the time last year ... I didn't change the way I handle my server since but most of them found other servers...so it's more a question about loyalty 19:52 IhrFussel Newer servers popped up, my active players tried them and many moved over ... I call that a form of betrayal but whatever 19:52 Shara Odd that I never saw it as #1. I used to at least check most high ranking servers at around that time. 19:53 IhrFussel I had the data to back my claim up...daily active unique users went up to 800 in Oct/Nov/Dec 19:53 IhrFussel 800 is a lot 19:54 IhrFussel My server was never empty there were at least 5 online at all times...even at night in US/EU 19:55 Shara It's not about needing to back it up, though I do very much doubt you were #1 most of the time 19:55 IhrFussel It was a bit of a phenomenom cause my server wasn't really popular during summer...it got extremely full in fall 19:56 IhrFussel Maybe you checked the server list at the wrong times...my server was always in top 10 19:56 IhrFussel And you should know how much servers jump 19:57 Shara Top 10 is quite different from "#1 most of the time" 19:57 IhrFussel I even had some players telling me that we are #1 (without asking them to check) 19:58 IhrFussel Shara, you are only #1 for 5 minutes if you have bad luck but you still were #1 in the list... like I said servers jump a lot and no server stays #1 for hours 19:58 Shara I haven't said you weren't there for five minutes 19:59 Shara And CTF currently begs to differ on your last point 19:59 IhrFussel The algorithm to calculate the "server score" is flawed and we need a better one that is more consistent ... and there are 2 issues about it I think...or maybe just 1 and a very big complaint in the IRC log 20:00 Shara I'm the first to agree it's messy, but at the moment I'd actually prefer my servers ranked lower 20:00 IhrFussel I doubt that the server stays #1 for hours without dropping once 20:00 Shara AFK 20:02 IhrFussel paramat commented on my issue that we need a way to give each active server some spotlight kind of ... but those probably were just empty words 20:02 IhrFussel Also CTF servers in general are extremely popular so not comparabe to survival servers 20:03 IhrFussel comparable* 20:15 Fixer IhrFussel: disagree with you, there just one active CTF server 20:21 IhrFussel Fixer, rubenwardy himself said that CTF servers in general seem to be the most popular ones ... he basically said "just name your server CTF and it will get players" 20:21 rubenwardy well 20:22 rubenwardy for some reason it seems I have to make it 20:22 Fixer there is like 4 CTF servers, and only one is popular and has most of players, others are pretty much inactive 20:22 rubenwardy there are two others on the list which were pretty low 20:23 Calinou mobile clients just feel a natural attraction to anything with rubenwardy's name on it 20:23 IhrFussel Players likely choose the one on top...it is the exact same for every other server...if your server is down somewhere you can only hope that some players will scroll down and join yours to have a chance at the top 20:23 Calinou time to open a store, "rubenwardy's cakes" 20:25 IhrFussel My server sometimes is in the LAST 10 ... but luckily my playerbase is large enough so that it's guaranteed it will jump higher sooner or later 20:27 Shara ESP CTF used to be busy, but it's laggy and not moderated well. 20:27 Shara Unless we fix it, it has no reason to be busy 20:28 IhrFussel I'm not sure how other new servers land in the top 10 ... maybe some form of advertising or they are just very lightweight so no mobile players timeout which means more players will join soon after 20:28 rubenwardy luck 20:29 Shara DL was straight into the top ten really, and that happened because it had players ready and waiting for it before it was even open 20:30 Shara Some people bring a group of players with them 20:30 IhrFussel That's possible too...create a community before you open your server 20:30 Shara I even did that to a smaller extent with RC. 20:31 IhrFussel But if a top 10 server suddenly crashes, some players will think the server won't be available anytime soon -> look for new one 20:32 sfan5 i'm not exactly sure what you mean but i imagine players are quite "loyal" to their server 20:32 rubenwardy I find lots of players spam the reconnect button 20:32 rubenwardy it's when it's done for more than a minute they give up 20:33 Shara Same experience as rubenwardy 20:33 sfan5 not necessarily because they like the who runs the server in which ways, but simply because it has their buildings they have invested time into 20:33 Shara For me, if RC especially goes down, I tend to find a lot of players join the IRC channel to find out what's happening, and they amuse themselves there until it's back 20:33 IhrFussel sfan5, they will not try infinite times...maybe 2 or 3 times but if the server takes longer to reboot then they will very likely go somewhere else *for the time being* 20:33 Shara Fussel: I know you are against an IRC connection, but it actually helps a lot for things like this 20:34 IhrFussel And that's what populates less popular servers then for example 20:35 IhrFussel Honestly it just takes 1 player to leave the bottom (at least in my case) ... if that 1 player stays for a bit the server already jumps quite a bit higher 20:35 Shara Isn't that to be expected though? 20:35 Shara I mean.. the admin themself can just play more to escape 0 20:35 sfan5 players are the main factor in ranking so yes 20:36 Shara A server that always has 0 means even the admin doesn't play there, and if the admin doesn't play their own server, why should I? 20:36 IhrFussel Yes I didn't say it was wrong behavior...I just mean it's *pretty* easy to jump somewhere to the top with 2-3 players 20:37 Shara sfan5: Is there any reason RC randomly seems to rank lower when it gets over 20 players? It's not always consistent, but it does seem to drop sharply when it gets to 22+, then rises again when it falls under 20 20:37 sofar over 20 gets penalized 20:37 IhrFussel Not top 10 but somewhere close to that ... so if a top 10 server is not available for a bit the chance is high that players might check out your server 20:37 Shara I've checked the names with numbers, and that doesn't seem to be a factor 20:37 IhrFussel Over 16 gets penalized 20:37 Shara sofar: why such penalities? 20:38 IhrFussel 17 players = 1 player 20:38 sofar I just read the code 20:38 sofar it subtracts points as player count gets higher 20:38 Shara RC just dropped from 22 to 15 and now it's back in 2nd place 20:39 Shara I don't care about th eposition so much either way, just interested in the reasoning 20:39 sofar ITB consistently ranks 30-40th 20:39 sofar lol 20:39 IhrFussel To distribute players more 20:40 IhrFussel Basically a server with 20+ players is not in need for more players 20:40 Shara Yet it's still the busiest grouping of servers at the top anyway 20:40 Shara rubenwardy might disagree, but it's not like CTF needs more players right now :D 20:41 rubenwardy I just realised the limit went up, oops. Back to 40 20:41 IhrFussel If a server has 50 players it means to the server list it has 30 I think...so being still at the top after all penalties is possible 20:41 Shara hah 20:42 IhrFussel Maybe server with extremely amounts of players hould get penalized more 20:42 Shara Maybe it explains why DL is often so high. It's probably often sitting at 16 20:42 IhrFussel should* 20:42 Shara I know above that it can start to refuse connections 20:42 IhrFussel 20 is not enough obviously 20:43 * sofar doesn't really care about ITB not ranking high, the server lends itself well to players playing solo or building solo since its mostly a solo experience anyway 20:43 Raven262 So basically, when looking for a new server to play on, don't take ones from the top. 20:43 sofar of course, I would like it if more people would come building 20:43 IhrFussel Last year it was (AFAIK) unheard of having 50# players on ONE server 20:44 IhrFussel 50+* 20:44 sofar we need like, 10 Raven262's 20:44 Raven262 Why? They would all build same boxes. 20:44 sofar does anyone know of any really talented builders? 20:44 Shara sofar: Sorry. have tried but I just can't really seem to get into it that much. 20:44 sofar better than Raven262? 20:44 sofar no worries 20:44 Shara I probably would try and build 20:45 Krock I can build the best cobble castles!!!111! 20:45 Shara But I just can't be bothered with the boxes :P 20:45 sofar HA 20:45 Raven262 I have invited some, Yet most of the people that i knows a s good builders aren't usually to be found. 20:45 Raven262 *as 20:45 sofar I will attempt to NOT reveal how well Krock's box scored 20:45 Raven262 *know 20:45 Krock sofar, #ranks - 1 20:45 Raven262 Which one was it? 20:45 Shara sofar: Hover on RC for a bit. You'll find good builders but might have a hard time getting them away from there 20:47 sofar did you just restart it? 20:47 rubenwardy > 0s uptime 20:47 Shara No, but one of my admins did 20:47 rubenwardy yes 20:48 Raven262 The CTF server has 40 players, cause its limited to 40. But CTF has little to do with building, and I'm a bit concerned about the community if they only play minetest to kill each other. 20:48 sofar CTF is what, 95% tablet players? 20:48 sofar it's all fine, let them 20:48 Raven262 I guess so. 20:49 sofar mostly younger kids I bet 20:49 rubenwardy sofar, if you'd like a hundred monkeys randomly digging and placing blocks to make a masterpiece, then try CTF 20:49 sofar ITB draws the older crowd, lol 20:54 IhrFussel Regarding the extremely high IO on my server caused by map.sqlite accesses... could those be caused by too many mapblocks with meta? 20:56 sofar if the meta changes a lot, yes 20:56 IhrFussel I didn't run a full /clearobjects in over a year and have lots of animal/monster types spawning on the map 20:56 rubenwardy :O 20:58 IhrFussel It will just take LOTS of time with such a large DB ... that's why I didn't clear objects for so long 20:59 IhrFussel The --info flag will give me the same progress in 0.4.16 like 0.5.0 now does in action stream right? 20:59 IhrFussel Or does after merge* 21:00 Fixer ._. 21:00 Fixer i wonder if v-sa needs another clearobject run on her servers 21:00 rubenwardy clearobjects quick 21:00 rubenwardy not sure how reliable it is 21:01 rubenwardy CTF runs clearobjects (full) after every match :D 21:01 IhrFussel rubenwardy, I did that a few times but it's not the real thing 21:01 rubenwardy ...for the whole 100 mapchunks there are 21:01 IhrFussel I imagine there could be thousands of mapblocks filled with mob data right now 21:02 Fixer just 100 mapchunks? I was expecting more 21:02 rubenwardy not all is loaded 21:02 rubenwardy oh oops 21:03 rubenwardy !math calc (160*2*2/16)**2 21:03 ShadowBot rubenwardy: 1600 21:03 rubenwardy lol 21:04 rubenwardy !math calc ((160*2/16)**2)*2 21:04 ShadowBot rubenwardy: 800 21:04 rubenwardy heh, doesn't matter 21:12 rubenwardy where's that article that talks about ransoming until you open source something? 21:12 rubenwardy like companies promising to go open source if they get enough users 21:22 lisac !math calc 0/0 21:22 ShadowBot lisac: Error: float division by zero 21:22 lisac !math calc 0/(2-2) 21:22 ShadowBot lisac: Error: float division by zero 21:22 lisac !math calc 0.2+0.1 21:22 ShadowBot lisac: 0.30000000000000004 21:22 lisac :) 21:30 Fixer haha 22:28 garywhite !math calc 0.25+0.2 22:28 ShadowBot garywhite: 0.45 22:29 Raven262 !math calc 0.25+0.1 22:29 ShadowBot Raven262: 0.35 22:29 Raven262 !math calc 0.25+0.01 22:29 ShadowBot Raven262: 0.26 22:29 Raven262 !math calc 0.3+0.2 22:29 ShadowBot Raven262: 0.5 22:41 Calinou !math calc sqrt(-1) 22:41 ShadowBot Calinou: i 22:41 Calinou sqrt(-1) love you! 22:42 Raven262 http://i.imgur.com/8FPPAdB.jpg 22:42 Raven262 (Excuse the 9GAG logo, it was a repost) 23:08 Fixer enough r e t r o, will look into technic 23:13 Fixer Airtight pipe entry/exit has no icon in creative menu for some reason 23:15 Fixer oh man 23:15 Fixer gui is fucked up in our technic 23:16 Shara Fixer: any need for this language all the time? 23:17 Fixer not really, here is example screenshot https://i.imgur.com/S3BfTOj.png 23:17 Shara I usually don't say anything, but had a couple of people PM me complaining lately. 23:18 Shara (Not specifically about you, just in general.) 23:18 Shara I don't know much about technic, but I'm never surprised is anything involving formspecs is messy 23:19 Shara if* 23:23 Fixer is facade blocks technically possible for any mod provided mods in minetest? 23:24 Shara What are you thinking of? 23:24 Fixer it is widely used in MC, you have a pipe that goes through walls for example, so you "paint" a block with needed texture and plug that place where the pipe crosses that wall so i look nice 23:25 sfan5 has this critical locked chest issue been reproduced yet? 23:25 Shara sfan5: I'm hoping I can catch Ten about it, because I can't figure out what he was doing 23:25 Shara To me, in 0.5 at least it seems fine. 23:26 Shara Don't know if I am testing it correctly though. 23:27 Fixer ten needs to check if his mtg and mods are up to date 23:27 Shara I asked him if they were before he posted the issue 23:27 Shara But didn't see him since 23:27 sfan5 is there even an issue on the mtg bugtracker for this? 23:28 sfan5 i'm guessing no 23:28 Fixer ten probably has that take from inventory issue that was probably fixed, but i'm not sure 23:28 Shara I should test this in stable as well really, since you said chest code hasn't been changed in years 23:28 Fixer also, someone should tell LazyJ to backport those fixes since he is running ancient MTG 23:28 Shara though the issue might have been somewhere else? 23:28 sfan5 that's possible yes 23:32 garywhite I was considering launching an 0.5-based server, but there would be literally no one to play on it rn 23:32 Shara I can't even get it to work using my probably very outdated version of MTG. So I think I'm missing something. 23:32 Shara I can get the chest inventory to display and add the player inventory to the formspec, but no go 23:35 Shara I admit I haven't looked at the code too closely, but will ask Ten for more info when I catch him 23:36 bigfoot547 Has minetest dropped support for Debian 8? 23:41 Fixer is that one with gcc5? 23:41 garywhite idk, all I know is they will be using C++11 23:41 Fixer they are already using it 23:42 Fixer with current version 23:43 Fixer you can probably compile on older one, by installing backported GCC 23:47 Fixer hmm, maikerumine opened up 0.5.0-dev survival server, interesting 23:49 bigfoot547 Fixer: I dunno my gcc version... 23:49 bigfoot547 I am compiling my client ;) 23:49 bigfoot547 I already have my server compiled 23:49 bigfoot547 Fixer: It's gcc4.9 IIRC 23:49 bigfoot547 Do I need gcc5? 23:55 Fixer bigfoot547: so you have outdated debian? 23:56 bigfoot547 Yes 23:56 Fixer current one is 9.2 and c11 ready 23:56 bigfoot547 if you wanna call it that >_> 23:56 bigfoot547 I call it very stable lol 23:56 Fixer bigfoot547: not really much stable, just old .__. 23:56 Fixer bigfoot547: somewhere on irc nerzhul said you can use some ubuntu ppa with newer gcc 23:57 bigfoot547 Fixer: sage 23:57 bigfoot547 And maybe 23:57 bigfoot547 Lemme see if I can update gcc 23:57 bigfoot547 I'm worried to upgrade because I may break things :L 23:58 nerzhul Fixer, yeah, like travis does 23:59 Fixer i can only advise you to upgrade to newer debian